WEBVTT - Opus Dei: A Real Conspiracy (with Gareth Gore) - Part One (ENCORE) 0:00:15.082 --> 0:00:16.881 John and I are on break now who are on 0:00:16.962 --> 0:00:20.482 a secret mission, and this before all new Mission Implausible 0:00:20.521 --> 0:00:23.482 episodes come out this fall. But for now we'll bring 0:00:23.521 --> 0:00:26.721 you one of our favorite past episodes and we'll soon 0:00:26.802 --> 0:00:29.162 be launching our YouTube channel. See you there. 0:00:31.202 --> 0:00:34.321 I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I was a 0:00:34.322 --> 0:00:37.682 CIA officer stationed around the world in high threat posts 0:00:37.682 --> 0:00:39.402 in Europe, Russia, and in Asia. 0:00:39.442 --> 0:00:42.522 And I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East 0:00:42.602 --> 0:00:46.682 and in war zones. We sometimes created conspiracies to deceive 0:00:46.722 --> 0:00:47.681 our adversaries. 0:00:47.922 --> 0:00:51.602 Now we're going to use our expertise to deconstruct conspiracy 0:00:51.641 --> 0:00:54.562 theories large and small. Could they be true? 0:00:54.842 --> 0:00:56.122 Or are we being manipulated? 0:00:56.642 --> 0:00:58.722 This is Mission Implausible. 0:01:01.922 --> 0:01:04.682 I'm really pleased to have and more than a little 0:01:04.722 --> 0:01:08.162 curious to talk with our guests today. Gareth Gore Gareth 0:01:08.282 --> 0:01:12.922 is a financial journalist with close to two decades of experience. 0:01:13.282 --> 0:01:16.401 He's reported from over twenty five countries and has covered 0:01:16.482 --> 0:01:17.962 some of the world's. 0:01:17.442 --> 0:01:19.122 Biggest financial stories. 0:01:19.241 --> 0:01:23.922 But incongruously, perhaps he's come out with this great book Opus, 0:01:24.122 --> 0:01:27.762 The Cult of Dark Money, human trafficking, and right wing 0:01:27.922 --> 0:01:30.962 conspiracy Inside the Catholic Church. 0:01:31.521 --> 0:01:34.922 So today we're going to begin an episode talking maybe 0:01:35.042 --> 0:01:38.762 about a mixture of conspiracy and conspiracy theories involving one 0:01:38.762 --> 0:01:43.161 of the oldest and most mysterious organizations in history, the 0:01:43.202 --> 0:01:47.041 Catholic Church, but not the Catholic Church like the one 0:01:47.042 --> 0:01:49.442 I was an ultra boy at Saint Leo's, but one 0:01:49.442 --> 0:01:54.401 of its most secretive, lay fanatical fringe factions, Opus Day. 0:01:54.802 --> 0:01:57.242 So Gareth, welcome, and maybe let's start out with you 0:01:57.322 --> 0:01:59.522 briefly telling us about Opus Day and see if you 0:01:59.522 --> 0:02:02.002 can do it without mentioning the Dan Brown book or 0:02:02.002 --> 0:02:04.362 the Tom Hanks movie Da Vinci Code, and then how 0:02:04.402 --> 0:02:06.002 you ended up going down this rabbit hole. 0:02:06.122 --> 0:02:07.722 Hey, guys, must little thank you for having me on. 0:02:07.802 --> 0:02:09.322 It's a pleasure to be here. 0:02:09.362 --> 0:02:11.802 Great. Yes, Opus, I think many of your listeners will 0:02:11.802 --> 0:02:14.402 be surprised to hear that it isn't some kind of 0:02:14.602 --> 0:02:18.562 medi organization. This group is less than one hundred years old. 0:02:18.642 --> 0:02:21.522 It was actually founded in nineteen twenty eight by a 0:02:21.602 --> 0:02:25.882 Spanish priest by the name of Jasimeria Escliva who he 0:02:25.962 --> 0:02:28.362 was a bit of a lost priest. I think for 0:02:28.362 --> 0:02:32.242 a number of years he considered just ditching the priesthood entirely. 0:02:32.802 --> 0:02:34.962 He was torn. He wanted to make money, he wanted 0:02:34.962 --> 0:02:38.001 to be a success, but he'd fallen into the priesthood 0:02:38.042 --> 0:02:40.681 partly by accident. He applied for a bunch of jobs. 0:02:40.681 --> 0:02:42.681 He tried to become a civil servant who work for 0:02:42.722 --> 0:02:45.041 the government at one stage, but didn't get the job. 0:02:45.242 --> 0:02:46.722 So he was a bit of a lost soul. But 0:02:46.762 --> 0:02:50.962 then one day, whilst on retreat in Madrid in October 0:02:51.042 --> 0:02:54.482 nineteen twenty eight, he had this vision. So he told 0:02:54.482 --> 0:02:58.401 everyone afterwards that basically God spoke to him and at 0:02:58.602 --> 0:03:01.401 the outline of vision for a new organization that would 0:03:01.442 --> 0:03:04.002 help ordinary Catholics to go a bit deeper, to be 0:03:04.042 --> 0:03:06.922 more serious about their faith without the need to become 0:03:07.002 --> 0:03:11.282 priests or nuns. And that's basically how Opusto was born. 0:03:11.882 --> 0:03:14.202 But very quickly it kind of evolved into something else. 0:03:14.202 --> 0:03:17.642 So it started as basically a group that would just 0:03:17.722 --> 0:03:20.281 help you to become a better Catholic. But this was 0:03:20.322 --> 0:03:24.122 Spain in the late nineteen twenties early nineteen thirties. It 0:03:24.242 --> 0:03:27.362 was a country that was deeply divided, on the brink 0:03:27.362 --> 0:03:30.522 of civil war. The workers were rising up, they overthrow 0:03:30.602 --> 0:03:33.722 the monarchy. They were demanding new rights for themselves and 0:03:33.762 --> 0:03:36.762 critically for Escrivaughn. For Opah's day, they were turning the 0:03:36.842 --> 0:03:39.522 backs on the Church, and he was horrified about this. 0:03:39.602 --> 0:03:43.042 So what he did was he took this vision and 0:03:43.082 --> 0:03:46.362 he transformed it into something else. And this is where 0:03:46.362 --> 0:03:50.202 the conspiracy comes in. So he secretly drew up documents 0:03:50.522 --> 0:03:55.242 for a brand new organization that would infiltrate every part 0:03:55.282 --> 0:03:59.162 of society and use its power there to reshape society, 0:03:59.402 --> 0:04:03.722 to unwind all of these progressive advances and to go back. 0:04:03.802 --> 0:04:06.122 So he drew a new vision for Opu's day as 0:04:06.122 --> 0:04:10.082 a reactionary secret, reactionary force in society, and that's what 0:04:10.202 --> 0:04:11.362 it continues to be today. 0:04:11.642 --> 0:04:13.642 So how is it viewed within the Catholic Church. 0:04:13.722 --> 0:04:18.041 Now the Catholic which is a wide church, obviously that's 0:04:18.202 --> 0:04:21.202 the liberal parts of the church. The most famous person 0:04:21.602 --> 0:04:23.722 within that part, within the part of the church, of course, 0:04:23.802 --> 0:04:27.082 is the Pelp. Pope Francis is considered a progressive, a 0:04:27.202 --> 0:04:30.562 liberal Pulp. But you know that the church also has 0:04:30.602 --> 0:04:34.882 a conservative wing and an art conservative wing, and Opus 0:04:34.882 --> 0:04:36.642 Stay is very much part of that. So I think 0:04:36.962 --> 0:04:40.282 the liberal progressive side of the church has always viewed 0:04:40.922 --> 0:04:44.042 Opa Stay with a certain amount of suspicion, but it's 0:04:44.162 --> 0:04:46.962 very much welcomed by the arch conservatives. 0:04:47.002 --> 0:04:51.002 I forget this right. It was a conspiracy, a real conspiracy. 0:04:51.042 --> 0:04:53.562 They were trying to infiltrate these places. But it was 0:04:53.642 --> 0:04:58.242 also in response to a conspiracy theory Screeva right Winery standard. 0:04:58.642 --> 0:05:01.482 He thought the world was controlled by the Jews and 0:05:01.562 --> 0:05:06.042 the Freemasons, Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, the 0:05:06.082 --> 0:05:10.402 Democrats and Communists and Bolsheviks. So his conspiracy was reaction 0:05:11.202 --> 0:05:13.642 to conspiracy theories that he saw all around him. 0:05:14.002 --> 0:05:17.042 You're absolutely right, jere So Escrigart. After he had this 0:05:17.122 --> 0:05:21.042 initial vision, this quite benign vision for just helping ordinary Catholics, 0:05:21.682 --> 0:05:23.802 all of this crazy stuff was happening around him. There 0:05:23.802 --> 0:05:27.242 were church burnings, that was fighting on the streets. He 0:05:27.322 --> 0:05:32.802 came to the conclusion that this was all employed by 0:05:33.122 --> 0:05:36.402 the Communists and the Jews and the Masons to take 0:05:36.442 --> 0:05:39.522 over Spain, to rip up its Catholic past, and to 0:05:39.842 --> 0:05:44.722 basically push forward this atheistic kind of society. He brought 0:05:44.762 --> 0:05:48.082 into all of these conspiracy theories that it was a yeah, 0:05:48.202 --> 0:05:52.402 it was a conspiracy to radically change Spanish society, and 0:05:52.522 --> 0:05:56.602 the way that he began to redevelop op Stai. He 0:05:56.762 --> 0:06:00.522 started to see opistae as almost like a militia to 0:06:00.562 --> 0:06:03.642 fight back against these hidden forces. 0:06:03.642 --> 0:06:06.202 And that gives you a permission. We're seeing this around 0:06:06.202 --> 0:06:09.642 the world today. When you're in your mind fighting against 0:06:09.642 --> 0:06:13.482 this grand conspiracy, that sort of can give you free 0:06:13.602 --> 0:06:16.082 change to do the very things that you claim the 0:06:16.122 --> 0:06:19.242 other side does. They're censoring us, so we're going to 0:06:19.282 --> 0:06:21.922 censor them. They're destroying us, so we're going to destroy. 0:06:22.162 --> 0:06:24.722 Something I was thinking about in the context of your 0:06:24.762 --> 0:06:28.362 book is when you look at business activity that we 0:06:28.482 --> 0:06:31.162 might call corruption, we might call whatever. If you look 0:06:31.202 --> 0:06:34.442 at the history of business activity as a general rule, 0:06:35.122 --> 0:06:39.442 money was always controlled by secretive groups. It was very 0:06:39.442 --> 0:06:43.082 often family groups or culturally specific groups. And I think 0:06:43.082 --> 0:06:47.162 that's for sort of pragmatic reasons that before the development 0:06:47.162 --> 0:06:49.802 of modern commercial law, before the development of the modern 0:06:49.842 --> 0:06:53.442 corporation or the publicly held corporation, how would you spread 0:06:53.522 --> 0:06:56.082 money around the world, how would you come up with 0:06:56.242 --> 0:06:59.682 trade agreements? It was generally you did it with your family. 0:06:59.722 --> 0:07:02.162 There's a lot of family business throughout history, or you 0:07:02.202 --> 0:07:05.002 did it with members of your insular group, you know. 0:07:05.162 --> 0:07:06.882 I mean this is part of the reason Jews in 0:07:06.922 --> 0:07:08.682 the Middle Ages or in the Middle East, as well 0:07:08.722 --> 0:07:12.362 as Lebanese today or ethnic Chinese throughout Southeast Asia. I mean, 0:07:12.442 --> 0:07:15.282 you can point to a lot of these groups. And 0:07:15.362 --> 0:07:17.522 so in a weird way, I was reading Opus Day 0:07:17.562 --> 0:07:21.602 as a just an example of solving a problem, which 0:07:21.642 --> 0:07:24.842 is when you have this group that's spread around the 0:07:24.882 --> 0:07:29.482 world that specifically it costs a bit to join the world. 0:07:29.522 --> 0:07:33.442 It's a little scary you're giving up some credibility, but 0:07:33.482 --> 0:07:36.122 you're gaining credibility with a little with a group. It's 0:07:36.122 --> 0:07:38.402 almost inevitable in my mind, that's going to lead you 0:07:38.442 --> 0:07:42.682 to financial transactions because if I'm whatever, I'm in Detroit 0:07:42.722 --> 0:07:44.682 and I want to do business with someone in Madrid, 0:07:44.802 --> 0:07:46.922 and I can be like, oh, we're in the same 0:07:47.042 --> 0:07:50.402 in group. It's very costly to betray someone within your 0:07:50.402 --> 0:07:52.802 same in group. So I trust you, you trust me, 0:07:52.882 --> 0:07:55.762 we can start doing deals that just saying I'm going 0:07:55.802 --> 0:07:58.042 to do deals with Catholics in a country like Spain 0:07:58.242 --> 0:07:59.842 or that's not very meaningful. 0:08:00.082 --> 0:08:01.122 Everyone's a Catholic. 0:08:01.482 --> 0:08:04.122 I guess I'm forced to ask a question and not 0:08:04.282 --> 0:08:08.082 just give a filibuster. Was it was it designed to 0:08:08.522 --> 0:08:10.562 do that? Or was that just a result like they 0:08:10.642 --> 0:08:14.242 found themselves. Hey, we're an insular group that has this 0:08:14.362 --> 0:08:18.082 ability to be harnessed for financial gain, Let's go ahead 0:08:18.082 --> 0:08:18.562 and do that. 0:08:19.002 --> 0:08:22.242 It very quickly developed into a kind of controlling organization, 0:08:22.802 --> 0:08:24.802 and I think that was for a number of reasons. 0:08:24.922 --> 0:08:28.122 Screeve Art. He had all these grand ideas about he 0:08:28.162 --> 0:08:30.482 wrote all of this stuff down in nineteen thirty one 0:08:30.642 --> 0:08:34.482 nineteen thirty two, about infiltrating society and having his people 0:08:34.922 --> 0:08:38.162 basically running the government and the judiciary and schools and 0:08:38.202 --> 0:08:38.722 business and. 0:08:38.682 --> 0:08:39.202 The rest of it. 0:08:39.482 --> 0:08:42.362 But the fact was he had no faults. For about 0:08:42.402 --> 0:08:45.442 the first five or six years after coming up with 0:08:45.482 --> 0:08:49.682 this idea of elpus Day, he failed to recruit almost anyone. 0:08:49.722 --> 0:08:54.482 He had about fifteen to twenty young boys who had recruited, 0:08:54.802 --> 0:08:58.562 and so he then began to realize that his efforts 0:08:58.642 --> 0:09:02.282 to recruit and attract people to help us Day it 0:09:02.362 --> 0:09:04.162 just wasn't working. So he came up with this entirely 0:09:04.242 --> 0:09:08.442 new system, this very controlling system where he basically groomed 0:09:08.522 --> 0:09:12.761 people to join, and so it very quickly became not 0:09:12.842 --> 0:09:17.642 just a family, but it kind of dysfunctional controlling family 0:09:17.762 --> 0:09:22.642 were every element of these people's existences was watched and controlled. 0:09:22.722 --> 0:09:26.842 So yes, you had this closed network. And by the way, 0:09:26.922 --> 0:09:29.922 many of the people when they joined, were forced to 0:09:30.202 --> 0:09:33.362 leave the blood family behind and the friend network behind 0:09:34.122 --> 0:09:37.322 the lives became opus day and just help us day. 0:09:37.882 --> 0:09:39.642 But he then kind of layered on top of that 0:09:40.402 --> 0:09:43.522 the system of watching each other and of controlling every movement. 0:09:43.562 --> 0:09:46.602 So it's the Mafia times ten. Because you have no 0:09:46.722 --> 0:09:48.162 freedom to even go and have a drink in the 0:09:48.242 --> 0:09:50.522 local bar or whatever. You're being watched entire time. 0:09:51.162 --> 0:09:55.802 You're describing just classic cult behavior. Yes, was it always 0:09:55.802 --> 0:09:58.722 a cult or did it evolve into a cult? 0:09:58.882 --> 0:10:03.602 I think initially he started off by genuinely trying to 0:10:03.722 --> 0:10:06.842 talk people into joining of their own free will, But 0:10:06.962 --> 0:10:09.642 I think it very quickly evolved, I think within five 0:10:09.722 --> 0:10:12.922 six years. And as I said before, he basically recruited 0:10:12.922 --> 0:10:15.482 no one in the first few years, and it from 0:10:15.482 --> 0:10:19.282 that point he discovered that cult like recruitment to cult 0:10:19.362 --> 0:10:22.722 like kind of retention was the way forward. It became 0:10:22.762 --> 0:10:26.002 it was a very successful way to grab people and 0:10:26.162 --> 0:10:28.802 to retain them. Then you had this kind of hiatus 0:10:28.802 --> 0:10:31.122 of the Spanish Civil War, which meant that the people 0:10:31.122 --> 0:10:34.762 he recruited were either killed or left or were dispersed 0:10:34.762 --> 0:10:38.082 around Spain. But then once Franco won the civil war, 0:10:38.522 --> 0:10:41.842 he then fell back on this playbook of cult like 0:10:41.922 --> 0:10:44.922 recruitment and it was it was super successful in the 0:10:44.922 --> 0:10:47.002 Franco years. And to come back to what we were 0:10:47.002 --> 0:10:51.082 saying before, were the money. He then found ways of 0:10:51.082 --> 0:10:55.162 of basically pilfering from the state, of positioning opu Stay 0:10:55.242 --> 0:10:59.762 within the state apparatus to get control over state funds 0:10:59.762 --> 0:11:03.122 for education and research, and of using that network to 0:11:03.162 --> 0:11:05.202 then ensure that he could use the money to expand 0:11:05.242 --> 0:11:06.322 open Stay around the world. 0:11:11.362 --> 0:11:19.002 Let's pause for a secret, We'll be right back. Could 0:11:19.042 --> 0:11:22.202 you maybe go unto the Benko popular banking scandal that 0:11:22.282 --> 0:11:23.642 Opuste was at the biolum up. 0:11:24.002 --> 0:11:24.242 Yeah. 0:11:24.362 --> 0:11:27.722 So, through the nineteen forties, spifi'd very quickly realized that 0:11:28.002 --> 0:11:33.002 they needed money to expand. He had huge ambitions to 0:11:33.162 --> 0:11:36.122 take opu Ste not just all across Spain but around 0:11:36.122 --> 0:11:39.402 the world, and he needed money to do that. So initially, 0:11:39.482 --> 0:11:42.802 as I was just saying, he managed to get make 0:11:43.042 --> 0:11:46.042 rolls into the Franco regime and managed to siphon off 0:11:46.322 --> 0:11:50.042 state funds to help op Stay expand they began to 0:11:50.082 --> 0:11:53.802 set up networks of businesses as well, so through Opuste's 0:11:53.802 --> 0:11:57.002 connections with the regime, and so they set up businesses 0:11:57.042 --> 0:12:00.842 to benefit from those relationships with the Franco regime. But 0:12:00.962 --> 0:12:03.202 I think at one stage in the early fifties they 0:12:03.282 --> 0:12:08.042 realized that to get control of the bank would take 0:12:08.082 --> 0:12:11.162 things to an entirely different level. Being dependent on the 0:12:11.202 --> 0:12:14.362 Franco regime to win contracts or whatever or just get 0:12:14.442 --> 0:12:17.842 state money was very restrictive because those taps could be 0:12:17.882 --> 0:12:20.322 turned off very quickly. But if you had control of 0:12:20.362 --> 0:12:25.202 the bank, you had control over the savings of potentially 0:12:25.282 --> 0:12:27.442 millions of Spaniards who put their money into the bank, 0:12:27.482 --> 0:12:30.402 and you could use that money to lend to your 0:12:30.642 --> 0:12:33.962 various initiatives around the world. And we've seen many banks 0:12:34.002 --> 0:12:36.082 infiltrated and used in this way over the years, and 0:12:36.122 --> 0:12:38.322 the way they took control of their first bank was 0:12:38.362 --> 0:12:42.202 quite interesting. They got winds of scandal. It's a big 0:12:42.242 --> 0:12:46.442 Spanish bank. Ironically, one of the big bosses at the bank, 0:12:46.602 --> 0:12:49.842 who was a devout Catholic and fan of Opus day, 0:12:50.402 --> 0:12:53.842 he turned to opah Stay and confessed that the owner 0:12:53.842 --> 0:12:56.082 of the bank had been doing all these dodgy deals 0:12:56.082 --> 0:12:59.002 in France and if the Franco regime got wind of it, 0:12:59.082 --> 0:13:02.442 the bank was going to be punished and potentially people 0:13:02.442 --> 0:13:06.202 who go to prison. So Opuste got this information and. 0:13:06.962 --> 0:13:09.402 Did he literally confess like they broke the seal of 0:13:09.442 --> 0:13:10.962 the confessional or it's more. 0:13:11.362 --> 0:13:14.442 I don't think it was in confession, but it was 0:13:14.442 --> 0:13:16.562 in one of these sessions that they call spiritual guidance, 0:13:16.562 --> 0:13:19.482 So that this guy had gone to an Opu's Day 0:13:20.242 --> 0:13:23.881 member and basically was looking for a bit of kind 0:13:23.922 --> 0:13:27.362 of Catholic guidance. And this the opposte member took this 0:13:27.442 --> 0:13:31.122 information and passed it along to his fellow members, and 0:13:31.162 --> 0:13:34.682 they then turned the information against the bank to oust 0:13:35.122 --> 0:13:37.162 the owner of the bank, and they, you know, over 0:13:37.202 --> 0:13:40.962 a number of years they gradually took control until by 0:13:40.962 --> 0:13:43.762 the end of the nineteen fifties, Opus Day was effectively 0:13:43.802 --> 0:13:46.562 in control of one of Spain's largest banks and from 0:13:46.602 --> 0:13:48.242 there the sky was the limit. 0:13:48.482 --> 0:13:50.562 Then what happened next with the bank fraud? Where did 0:13:50.562 --> 0:13:51.162 the story go? 0:13:51.682 --> 0:13:54.122 So after taking control of this Spanish bank in the 0:13:54.162 --> 0:13:59.002 late nineteen fifties, Opus Day very quickly began to rewire 0:13:59.202 --> 0:14:02.562 and renetwork the bank to ensure that it could benefit 0:14:02.602 --> 0:14:04.762 from the bank financially, but also to ensure that its 0:14:04.882 --> 0:14:07.722 own network around the globe would benefit directly from the 0:14:07.762 --> 0:14:11.282 bank as well. And so Bank of Popular, this Spanish 0:14:11.282 --> 0:14:14.802 bank very quickly became away not just of extracting my 0:14:15.042 --> 0:14:17.442 need to help to finance the expansion of olper stay, 0:14:17.682 --> 0:14:21.162 but also became a way of it became a network 0:14:21.282 --> 0:14:25.562 for moving money around the world. During the Franco years, 0:14:25.802 --> 0:14:29.362 there were huge restrictions on transferring cash out of Spain 0:14:29.442 --> 0:14:32.842 to other countries, and so they developed this network, initially 0:14:32.842 --> 0:14:35.842 through Switzerland and Andorra, but then through other kind of 0:14:35.882 --> 0:14:41.282 tax havens in Panama, Tinstein, Kurasau to traffic huge amounts 0:14:41.282 --> 0:14:44.122 of money. And over the course of the next kind 0:14:44.162 --> 0:14:47.122 of forty to fifty years, the bank became a cash 0:14:47.122 --> 0:14:51.602 machine for Opus Day. They extracted hundreds of millions of 0:14:51.602 --> 0:14:55.082 dollars probably more like billions of dollars from the bank 0:14:55.242 --> 0:14:58.162 to finance the expansion of Opas day around the world, 0:14:58.842 --> 0:15:02.722 and for a number of reasons in the early twenty tens, 0:15:03.362 --> 0:15:06.202 the bank fell into all kinds of trouble. Now, some 0:15:06.242 --> 0:15:09.162 of it was I guess related to these outflows to 0:15:09.202 --> 0:15:13.002 Opa Stay and Opustay's semi control of the bank. But 0:15:13.082 --> 0:15:15.322 some of it was also related to what was happening 0:15:15.322 --> 0:15:18.042 to other banks around the world. They'd overinvested in the 0:15:18.042 --> 0:15:21.962 real estate market and had failed to get on top 0:15:21.962 --> 0:15:25.522 of their problems quickly enough, and the bank fell into 0:15:25.562 --> 0:15:27.922 a huge amount of trouble. And yes, in twenty seventeen, 0:15:27.962 --> 0:15:31.122 the bank collapsed. But the collapse of the bank was 0:15:31.242 --> 0:15:34.002 terrible for the bank's other shareholders and terrible for the 0:15:34.002 --> 0:15:37.482 bank's bondholders and creditors, but was great for me because 0:15:37.562 --> 0:15:39.642 it meant that Opus Stay no longer had control over 0:15:39.682 --> 0:15:43.082 these archives, and this nauzy journalist from the UK was 0:15:43.122 --> 0:15:46.122 able to get in and pieced together this crazy story. 0:15:46.202 --> 0:15:49.642 It seems that Opus Day got it pushed forward when 0:15:49.682 --> 0:15:52.162 Pop Paul the second gave credibility of the group and 0:15:52.442 --> 0:15:55.122 shared their conservative view. But what is it about the 0:15:55.162 --> 0:15:59.162 tenets of the Opus Day that appeal to average personnel? 0:15:59.202 --> 0:16:02.242 How is it different than regular catalysism in that sense? 0:16:02.602 --> 0:16:04.682 So I think there were two things. I think, on 0:16:04.762 --> 0:16:07.282 the face of it, Opus Stay is very good at 0:16:07.282 --> 0:16:14.642 presenting itself as a serious organization dedicated to helping ordinary 0:16:14.642 --> 0:16:16.962 Catholic to go a step further in their faith and 0:16:17.082 --> 0:16:19.802 to really offer themselves up to God. And the way 0:16:19.842 --> 0:16:23.042 that they kind of reel people in is by telling them, look, you, 0:16:23.202 --> 0:16:26.362 as a doctor or a politician or a journalist or whatever, 0:16:26.802 --> 0:16:30.882 you can serve God by simply striving for perfection and 0:16:30.922 --> 0:16:33.562 everything you do, and that's your way of serving God. 0:16:33.562 --> 0:16:35.482 You don't need to become a priest or done. You 0:16:35.522 --> 0:16:40.682 can achieve sanhood here on earth by just striving for 0:16:40.722 --> 0:16:45.842 perfection if you're a hot shot lawyer or a Republican 0:16:46.042 --> 0:16:50.042 congressman or whatever. That's the idea is quite appealing, But 0:16:50.122 --> 0:16:53.122 I think there's also another element to it, And I 0:16:53.202 --> 0:16:57.002 think this is very much true in places like Spain 0:16:57.042 --> 0:17:00.042 where Opus Day is strongest, but I think it's becoming 0:17:00.082 --> 0:17:03.362 increasingly true in the US as well. I think by 0:17:03.682 --> 0:17:07.601 joining Opus Day as a member, or just by entering 0:17:07.682 --> 0:17:10.361 into the elpus Day network, it opens a lot of doors. 0:17:10.882 --> 0:17:14.002 I think it's useful to think of Olpusta as a network. 0:17:14.402 --> 0:17:16.682 By being by the network, you're part of this kind 0:17:16.682 --> 0:17:20.601 of like minded group, these kind of like minded conservatives, 0:17:21.282 --> 0:17:26.841 like minded professionals. Because opstay very specifically recruits from the 0:17:26.882 --> 0:17:28.962 elite of society. They're not interested in the kind of 0:17:29.002 --> 0:17:31.882 the working classes or the middle classes they specifically go 0:17:31.962 --> 0:17:35.321 after because they want to influence society. But by getting 0:17:35.402 --> 0:17:39.362 membership into this network, that opens up business opportunities and 0:17:39.602 --> 0:17:45.482 networking opportunities, professional advancement. And I would argue that these days, 0:17:45.642 --> 0:17:48.042 to get ahead in place like Washington, d C. It 0:17:48.162 --> 0:17:50.922 helps to be Catholic and it helps to be part 0:17:50.962 --> 0:17:55.601 of this LP Er Stay network. Just hold on for 0:17:55.642 --> 0:17:56.962 a short break. We'll be right back. 0:18:04.722 --> 0:18:06.802 Okay. So you've got a screenviar who founds it, and 0:18:06.802 --> 0:18:09.162 he's a big fear of Hitler, by the way, Mussolini. 0:18:09.562 --> 0:18:13.601 Today we've got OPA Stay hugely influential, all out of 0:18:13.802 --> 0:18:16.842 worshiped with size and the US. So the US, you've 0:18:16.842 --> 0:18:20.962 got former head of the FBI, Louis Three. You've got 0:18:21.162 --> 0:18:25.442 people in the Supreme Court with close connections with bar Our. 0:18:25.962 --> 0:18:30.362 Heritage Foundation is run by a guy with close relationship 0:18:30.402 --> 0:18:34.402 with Opus stain Scalia in the ot Scalia. 0:18:34.522 --> 0:18:35.922 I don't believe he was a member, but he will 0:18:35.962 --> 0:18:38.042 sent me within the next he was a regular within. 0:18:37.962 --> 0:18:41.882 The circle executive right, yeah, yes, And Amy Colinbero and 0:18:41.922 --> 0:18:43.842 she's not in OPA Stay, but she was in a 0:18:43.922 --> 0:18:47.282 similar type of thing. So where is Opus day now 0:18:47.802 --> 0:18:51.762 inside of the US, right, and talking about real conspiracies, 0:18:52.322 --> 0:18:55.362 what is Opus Stay's role inside of the US now? 0:18:55.722 --> 0:18:59.282 Right from the beginning, from the thirties onwards, Opus Stay 0:18:59.522 --> 0:19:04.442 has always aspired, has always conspired, she might say, to 0:19:04.482 --> 0:19:08.522 infiltrate the upper echelons of society, because Esprievar realized from 0:19:08.562 --> 0:19:12.842 very early on that the way you push your reactionary 0:19:12.842 --> 0:19:17.122 agenda is by infiltrating the institutions that are in charge 0:19:17.242 --> 0:19:21.722 of shaping societies. Obyste entered the US in the late 0:19:21.842 --> 0:19:26.522 nineteen forties, and initially it's set up in Chicago, a 0:19:26.642 --> 0:19:31.922 very Catholic city. It then soon expanded to Boston, but 0:19:32.002 --> 0:19:34.522 before long in area, in the early nineteen fifties, it 0:19:34.602 --> 0:19:37.962 was turning its attention to Washington because it realized that 0:19:38.122 --> 0:19:42.602 if it wanted to shape US society, then it had 0:19:42.642 --> 0:19:45.442 to be in Washington. In the fifties, it tried to 0:19:45.442 --> 0:19:48.081 set up an Olble's Daye University in Washington, d C. 0:19:48.322 --> 0:19:51.922 But that idea completely failed. But ever since then it's 0:19:51.962 --> 0:19:54.922 poured resources into the city. And I think one for me, 0:19:55.002 --> 0:19:59.202 one kind of very interesting statistic is this Obboste officially 0:19:59.242 --> 0:20:02.841 has about three thousand members in the US, and as 0:20:02.882 --> 0:20:06.962 a Catholic organization, you would have expected that membership to 0:20:06.962 --> 0:20:12.482 be concentrated in Catholic cities like Chicago and Boston, New York, 0:20:12.762 --> 0:20:16.082 even Miami these days with the large Hispanic population there, but. 0:20:16.042 --> 0:20:20.321 That's not true. The largest OPA stay community in the 0:20:20.442 --> 0:20:23.722 US is in the Washington, D C. Area, and that 0:20:23.802 --> 0:20:25.802 kind of tells you all you need to know about 0:20:26.482 --> 0:20:30.042 where it's targeted its recruitment over the years. It's very 0:20:30.162 --> 0:20:34.402 much gone after targeting the Washington d C. Political and 0:20:34.482 --> 0:20:39.042 judicial elite. It's got two schools, two open stay schools 0:20:39.082 --> 0:20:43.682 in Washington, which kind of servered a double purpose. One is, 0:20:43.842 --> 0:20:46.362 and this has always been an open stay strategy. They've 0:20:46.362 --> 0:20:48.962 gone after the top students because that's a way of 0:20:49.002 --> 0:20:52.402 recruiting tomorrow's elite into the system from an early age 0:20:52.602 --> 0:20:55.562 and it's really indoctrinating them from an early age. But two, 0:20:56.242 --> 0:20:58.922 by setting up these very good schools, it's a way 0:20:58.962 --> 0:21:01.722 of attracting the great and the good of Washington to 0:21:01.762 --> 0:21:05.561 get them to entice them into the schools, get them 0:21:05.602 --> 0:21:07.922 send their kids there, and then you invite them to 0:21:07.962 --> 0:21:10.442 the kind of extracurricular meetings where you know, you get 0:21:10.482 --> 0:21:12.121 to know the parents as well. It's a way of 0:21:12.482 --> 0:21:15.282 drawing them into the system. I mean, many of Washington's 0:21:15.322 --> 0:21:18.602 great and good send the kids to the boys' school 0:21:18.602 --> 0:21:20.762 which is called the Heights and this girls school called 0:21:20.802 --> 0:21:23.522 Oak Crest. And maybe this is a good moment to 0:21:23.522 --> 0:21:27.242 bring in Johnson, your producer, which when we were setting 0:21:27.362 --> 0:21:30.362 up the interview, he reveals me that he'd actually attended 0:21:30.402 --> 0:21:33.802 the Heights School, the Upper Stay School just outside of Washington. 0:21:33.842 --> 0:21:35.122 So maybe I don't know if you want to talk 0:21:35.122 --> 0:21:38.242 about your observations and how they tally with what I 0:21:38.562 --> 0:21:38.762 or not. 0:21:40.202 --> 0:21:43.802 I actually think that you're attributing more legitimacy to the 0:21:43.842 --> 0:21:46.802 school then I think it deserves as a school. 0:21:47.242 --> 0:21:48.162 So I was there for. 0:21:48.082 --> 0:21:51.562 One grade, one year, eighth grade in the early eighties, 0:21:51.882 --> 0:21:55.522 and I'm Jewish, So why on earth did they accept 0:21:55.842 --> 0:21:59.002 a Jew. I think they had the misconception that maybe 0:21:59.002 --> 0:22:02.122 my family had some more influence, which we didn't, and 0:22:02.602 --> 0:22:05.401 also a fear that if they rejected me or they 0:22:05.482 --> 0:22:09.002 kicked me out, that that would somehow boomerang on them. 0:22:09.362 --> 0:22:12.962 There is two Jews in two Protestants in the school 0:22:13.242 --> 0:22:16.242 and a few black kids, so we were the outsiders. 0:22:16.482 --> 0:22:21.602 It was a year of absolutely stagnant education. For me, 0:22:21.762 --> 0:22:25.722 there was the education was just of the ne year 0:22:26.162 --> 0:22:29.402 of educating the kids. I didn't realize it at the time, 0:22:29.442 --> 0:22:32.602 but only in hindsight how many of the kids were 0:22:33.162 --> 0:22:37.922