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Speaker 1: And joining me now is John Ralston, somebody I have known. Jeez,

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Speaker 1: it's now. I've only had two employers, and I've known

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Speaker 1: him during both of my during my stints at both employers,

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Speaker 1: I guess working for myself means it's my third employer.

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Speaker 1: But John Ralston does what I've been thinking about, and

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Speaker 1: then I follow in his footsteps. So, mister Ralston, it's

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Speaker 1: nice to see you.

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Speaker 2: It's nice to see you, Chuck. Just for everyone's reference,

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Speaker 2: it was two thousand and eight when we became in

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Speaker 2: an early state that I first met you. And I

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Speaker 2: want to tell your audience not the flatter you, but

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Speaker 2: you have been good to me ever since. You have

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Speaker 2: promoted me wherever you could, and I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: I actually think we go back to my hotline days,

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Speaker 1: which is before eight. Back during those days.

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Speaker 2: I certainly knew who you were back at the hopital.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, you deigned to communicate with the rule back then.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, man, man, But I digress. Look, you've done,

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Speaker 1: you know for you know, it's interesting you've done. You've

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Speaker 1: been in the world of sort of political expertise, journalism

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Speaker 1: before that was cool. Now you were doing independent media

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Speaker 1: before it was cool. Sort of just before everybody else

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Speaker 1: gets there. So I'm dead serious. You sort of you

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Speaker 1: jump into a space before everybody else? Does you seem

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Speaker 1: to be? Were you that way as a kid? Or

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Speaker 1: you the first one to jump off a cliff into

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Speaker 1: a body of water thinking yeah, it'll be all right?

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Speaker 1: Were you that guy?

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Speaker 2: I guess I've been a risk taker and I've been

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Speaker 2: told that before that. I've been a risk taker my

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Speaker 2: whole life, even by my siblings to some extent.

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Speaker 1: Oh so you were that sibling.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. I mean, was it risky

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Speaker 2: to try to dunk over my brother when we had

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Speaker 2: a nine foot rim? Maybe that was a little risky.

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Speaker 2: I didn't hurt myself too.

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Speaker 1: I love that you don't forget that dunk over your brother, right,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to forget that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do not forget that, as he became a

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Speaker 2: much better athlete than I was. But seriously, I guess

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Speaker 2: what I've done is a journalist, Chuck, and you've done

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Speaker 2: this now too? Is I tried to adapt to the

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Speaker 2: changing times. I mean, when I started covering politics in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, there was no such thing as the internet.

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Speaker 2: You know, the cycle was twenty four hours at least,

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Speaker 2: and maybe even longer, and you didn't have to worry

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Speaker 2: about what happened while you were on the phone with

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Speaker 2: someone that you might have missed, right, And so the

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Speaker 2: velocity with which information moved, And so I've tried to

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Speaker 2: adapt to that. And you know, my nonprofit that I

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Speaker 2: run now I started almost nine years ago. Again, shout

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Speaker 2: out to Chuck Todd for the early support on that,

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Speaker 2: and I appreciate it. It has been the roller coaster

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Speaker 2: ride and the best thing I've ever done. But it's

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Speaker 2: I still think nonprofit journalism, independent journalism, is the future. Chuck.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm just not sure how the for profit model

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Speaker 2: in the way that it is just now, unless you're

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Speaker 2: a billionaire, is going to pencil out.

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Speaker 1: Well. I want to have a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: conversation about that, because I'm I hear you on that argument.

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Speaker 1: I'm not ready to concede it. I'm not saying you're not.

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Speaker 1: You may be right, but I'm not ready to concede

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Speaker 1: the for profit But I want to get to that.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to start there. I actually want

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Speaker 1: to start because what I I want to actually start

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Speaker 1: because I feel like you're in an incredible position. Look

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Speaker 1: in theory you're on here. You've got a new book

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Speaker 1: on Harry Reid, sort of which I think is going

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Speaker 1: to be the definitive work on Harry Reid. And I

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Speaker 1: think Harry Reid knew you'd probably be the person to

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Speaker 1: write that. And I want to get into that because

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Speaker 1: it has a lot about the future of the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party and what's going on there. But I first want

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Speaker 1: to talk about Nevada and Las Vegas because in some

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Speaker 1: ways now, and I was thinking about this and preparing

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Speaker 1: for my interview with you, I think, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think you're the pre eminent swing state in America,

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Speaker 1: even if you won't be the deciding state in America.

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Speaker 1: And let me say what I mean by this, which is,

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Speaker 1: there was always a saying as such, and huts goes,

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Speaker 1: so goes America. We had Peoria. I wonder now, if

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Speaker 1: Clark County, specifically Nevada in general is the Peoria of

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century, how's it playing in Peoria? Nevada

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Speaker 1: was its unique economy for a long time. It would

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Speaker 1: be an early warning sign about economic recession coming because

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Speaker 1: it was quote unquote extra money that people had that

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Speaker 1: would spend in Nevada. But now, to me, Nevada is

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Speaker 1: the economic model of Nevada today might be the future

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Speaker 1: of a lot of states. The service industry being a

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Speaker 1: primary employer. We're all going to be service industry employees.

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Speaker 1: It's in some form or another. I know I'm preaching

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Speaker 1: to the choir on this, but somebody who transplanted from

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Speaker 1: another swing area of the country, Buffalo, and went to

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Speaker 1: school in another swing state in Michigan, here you are

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Speaker 1: in Nevada. I just feel like it's a state filled

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Speaker 1: with people from everywhere else and collectively it is now

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century. How's it playing in Peoria? I

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Speaker 1: need to know how's it playing in Vegas? And I

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Speaker 1: have an idea where working class America is. Well.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have made the case better than you just did, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: And you know there's a hashtag for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we matter, right, But I do think to some expence.

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Speaker 1: But you lived it, You've been there before this happened.

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Speaker 1: You've you've been an eyewitness to this. So you tell

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Speaker 1: me it in your words. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because you mentioned of the book And I'm

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Speaker 2: not just here to shamelessly promote the book. But the

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Speaker 2: book doesn't just talk about Harry Reid and how he

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Speaker 2: went from coming from nowhere in Nevada to becoming the

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Speaker 2: most powerful democrat. And it's about the evolution of Nevada

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Speaker 2: along with Harry Reid. And it has changed, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there was still the caricature that some people

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Speaker 2: still have of that's just the casinos on the strip

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Speaker 2: or is the mob still there? People want to only

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Speaker 2: did the mob really beat up Harry Reid? And is

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Speaker 2: that what happened to his eye? And this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But what's really happened since I moved here in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty four is and you mentioned Clark County, which is

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Speaker 2: where Las Vegas is, which is worth seventy percent of

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Speaker 2: the population is and the electric.

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Speaker 1: Still today, right, still still today, and it's it's but

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Speaker 1: that's a decreasing share. It used to be eighty percent, right,

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Speaker 1: whether they go upwards there or I don't think it

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Speaker 1: ever has always been Okay.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it ever. It did get into the

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Speaker 2: load to mid seventies at one point, and it's starting

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Speaker 2: to grow again because of the explosion of independent voters

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Speaker 2: and motor voter law but what's really happened is and

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Speaker 2: you mentioned that the service industry, the changing demographics of Nevada.

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Speaker 2: He talked about the Hispanic vote in Nevada when I

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Speaker 2: started covering politics in nineteen eighty six. That's almost all

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Speaker 2: anybody talks about now. And there's even a significant Asian

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Speaker 2: American vote and a still robust African American vote, And

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Speaker 2: so Las Vegas has become a melting pot. Sure, it's

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Speaker 2: that weird city that with those miles long of casinos glittering,

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Speaker 2: and that's how that's what drives the economy. But you

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Speaker 2: can make a case, even if you look at the

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Speaker 2: electoral results that as Nevada goes, so goes the country,

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Speaker 2: and especially true I think Chuck of the Democratic Party

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Speaker 2: and why the Democrats here again and this comes full

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Speaker 2: circle to two thousand and eight, are trying to make

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Speaker 2: the case why Nevada is most representative of what the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party needs to be, needs to appeal to and

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Speaker 2: we should be wait for it first in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight to decide the nominee. That's the case. We're

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Speaker 2: reflective of the nation.

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Speaker 1: No, it is, I think the only challenge you have

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Speaker 1: to be first in the nation. I think you're going

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Speaker 1: to be among the first contests. What I would say

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Speaker 1: is is just simply geographic diversity, right like it is.

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Speaker 1: It is. If you just own Vegas, you win right now.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, it's not easy, it's it's increasingly inexpensive. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when targeting Nevada is a

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Speaker 1: cheap state, and now I think the Las Vegas media market,

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Speaker 1: because of the saturation issue, is among the most expensive

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Speaker 1: to penetrate, because of our heart, because of how dense

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Speaker 1: it is, so you get big bang for your buck

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Speaker 1: and all of that. But I think it's the only

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Speaker 1: thing that that harms you. A good to me, A

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Speaker 1: good first of the nation is a small state that

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Speaker 1: has some geographic diversity, right Iowa was you know, if

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Speaker 1: you think about it, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas all sort of

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Speaker 1: offer that probably a NOSCA is the best of the

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Speaker 1: three because Omaha actually has some diversity right where there's

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Speaker 1: not of ethnicity and there's African American population. You don't

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Speaker 1: really have that as much in a little bit in

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, Kansas. But you don't really have it there.

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Speaker 1: You guys have the diversity issue. But I don't know

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Speaker 1: about the geographic diversity, the cultural and ethnic diversity. That's

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Speaker 1: my only concern for you guys to get first.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am concerned about that, but we will continue

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Speaker 2: to lobby for it in every venue that I'm on,

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Speaker 2: including the truck at.

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Speaker 1: No I get it. I get it, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: I'm a huge advocate of small states going first. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: that is the best way for us to get a

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Speaker 1: measure of these candidates, and it's the only time they

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Speaker 1: can expose themselves physically to voters in ways you won't

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Speaker 1: get in Michigan. You won't get in Florida, you won't

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Speaker 1: get even in Arizona.

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Speaker 2: It's harder to do in Nevada too, as it is

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Speaker 2: in Iowa or New Hampshire. Right to just going to

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Speaker 2: all these different venues in Las Vegas doesn't even have

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Speaker 2: the obvious coffee shop that you should go to or

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Speaker 2: go to.

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Speaker 1: Restaurant arena probably has a little bit more of that, right, right,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, so when you see.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I find myself is I still

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Speaker 1: think when people say they're from Las Vegas, I'm always like, well,

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Speaker 1: where else are you from? And then I catch myself

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Speaker 1: because you know, what. I grew up in Florida. When

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Speaker 1: I surprise people growing up in Miami. No, I'm born

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Speaker 1: and raised in Miami. Wait you were born in Miami.

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Speaker 1: I still feel that way when I hear people say, wait,

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Speaker 1: you were born in Las Vegas. My last public relations

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Speaker 1: person with NBC is born and raised in Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, of course, there's a whole generation. But

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Speaker 1: if you're of a certain age, you still think of

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas as a destination place, not necessarily an originator.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I think that's still true. And you

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Speaker 2: still find some people here who when you ask them

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Speaker 2: where are you from? Originally they said, well, what do

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Speaker 2: you mean I was born here? That that is unusual

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Speaker 2: to find.

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Speaker 1: That is still unusual.

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Speaker 2: It's still unusual. I don't have the actual numbers at Handchuck,

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Speaker 2: but it's still pretty small. Although they they are still very,

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Speaker 2: very active, and all of them are understand the politics.

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Speaker 2: Not all of them, but a lot of them understand

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Speaker 2: the politics and the changing nature of Las Vegas. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Las Vegas had changed even to an extent I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize in twenty twenty four, and we talked about the

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Speaker 2: potency of the culinary Union and the so called read machine,

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Speaker 2: which was integrated with them. There it started to be

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Speaker 2: cracks forming that I didn't think were as big as

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Speaker 2: they were, and they were emblematic of what happened nationally

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Speaker 2: right with Latino men suddenly gravitating towards Trump and he,

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you, he was very smart to

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Speaker 2: do the no tax on tips thing here in the VAT.

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Speaker 2: I think it made much more of a difference here

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Speaker 2: than people think.

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Speaker 1: You know that It's funny. You know, remember during the

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Speaker 1: early days of the woke conversation, there was a movement

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Speaker 1: that said, Hey, I just want to be heard. I

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Speaker 1: want to feel seen. To me, what no taxes on

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Speaker 1: tips meant Trump saw these people doesn't mean his policies

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Speaker 1: were going to be the right answer. Doesn't mean those

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Speaker 1: folks thought that. Maybe even thought, well, these no taxes

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Speaker 1: on tips, what's that even going to look like? But

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Speaker 1: he said it, so at least he sees us. He

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Speaker 1: knows it's hard, he knows this isn't easy. That's what

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Speaker 1: I think my friends on the left fail to understand, Like,

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Speaker 1: why does Trump connect well just by simply saying it? Okay,

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Speaker 1: it seems like an impossible thing. To actually put into law. Right,

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Speaker 1: But it's like building the wall. What voters heard was oh,

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Speaker 1: he's serious about immigration. Doesn't mean they were necessarily believing

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Speaker 1: he was going to build a wall, where the left

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Speaker 1: would He's never gonna be able to build a law.

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Speaker 1: That's not the point, am I is that how you

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Speaker 1: sent no taxes on tips played?

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Speaker 2: I think you're right. And I think that the left

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Speaker 2: and especially the far left, thought that just saying Trump

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Speaker 2: is bad, Trump is evil. Have you seen the things

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Speaker 2: he said? And he's going to do that would be enough.

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Speaker 2: But that is kind of the haughtiness of the left

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Speaker 2: that really became more and more pronounced. I think through

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Speaker 2: the cycles and they took certain things for granted here

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Speaker 2: and elsewhere, and I think that was a real problem.

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Speaker 2: And whatever else you think about Trump, you're right. He

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Speaker 2: had these messages that resonated, symbols that resonated with people

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Speaker 2: and people who they began to feel that the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party had taken them for granted. That made a lot

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Speaker 2: of promises that just weren't there. Now, this was not

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Speaker 2: a huge thing, Chuck, but it was enough in these constituencies,

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Speaker 2: as you well know, much change the election.

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Speaker 1: This is still a tight state, right, I mean here,

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Speaker 1: you know, I find it, you feel I feel like

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Speaker 1: you've learned a lot from twenty four about the electorate,

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Speaker 1: and it both confirmed some suspicions, but it also seemed

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Speaker 1: to make you rethink a few pieces of conventional wisdom

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Speaker 1: that you frankly helped set. Give me a few of

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Speaker 1: the highlights. Did what did you get? What do you

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Speaker 1: think you got wrong that you're correcting? And what do

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Speaker 1: you feel like you were you saw first before other

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Speaker 1: people were noticing.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are actually signs I think in twenty

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Speaker 2: two chuck of things changing when Joe Lombardo, Republican candidate

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Speaker 2: challenged the democratic governor, and governors here are so powerful

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Speaker 2: the legislature barely meets form once out of twenty four

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Speaker 2: can do all kind It's very hard to beat an

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Speaker 2: incumbent governor in a jenerty.

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Speaker 1: It's a single I always say this. The only thing

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Speaker 1: harder to do is beat a sitting president, I think,

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Speaker 1: And the second hardest thing to do in politics is

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Speaker 1: defeat a governor that's running for a second term. Once

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Speaker 1: you start running in states that allow third and fourth terms,

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Speaker 1: that's a different story. But we are usually as an electorate,

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Speaker 1: and this is true in all fifty states. We're inclined

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Speaker 1: to give a governor a second term unless they're a

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Speaker 1: total and complete disaster.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right, and I think that there were

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Speaker 2: some signs in twenty two when Lombardo upset Steve Cis

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Speaker 2: like it was a very close race, but the margin

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Speaker 2: in Clark County, which as you know, and I won't

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Speaker 2: bore everyone, with the so called Clark County Firewall, where

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Speaker 2: the Democrats were so they're so populous down here, they

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Speaker 2: had a huge advantage registration and they were able to

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Speaker 2: turn out those folks. Now, some people will say it's

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Speaker 2: no coincidence that Harry Reid died at the end of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and then twenty twenty two showed some slippage,

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Speaker 2: and then twenty twenty four of the reading machine could

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Speaker 2: not pull Harris over the top. Here. Now, the Democrats

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Speaker 2: still did well down ballot in both of those years.

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Speaker 2: But I think what I missed was was, and this

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Speaker 2: has to do with the Culinary Union too, which is

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Speaker 2: half Latino as you know a little bit more, is

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Speaker 2: that they don't have the kind of sophisticated political operation

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Speaker 2: they once did. I think that was an issue. And

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Speaker 2: I think again this slippage, whether it was no tax

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Speaker 2: on teds, whether it was a young latinos saying you

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Speaker 2: know what, as Trump would say, what kind of chance

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Speaker 2: are you take? And what you know? What have you

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Speaker 2: gotten so far? Why not try me? And I think

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Speaker 2: I missed that that slippage was going on. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we'd like to say, Chuck, elections are about a lot

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Speaker 2: of things, issues and interest groups and campaigns, but they're

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Speaker 2: about math. And if the Democrats could not make the

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Speaker 2: math work in Clark County, then they were going to lose.

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Speaker 2: And I still thought barely barely that they could still

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Speaker 2: make the math work enough to beat Trump. Now, I

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Speaker 2: will say one other thing about the conventional wisdom about

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Speaker 2: the electorate here, I am. I am not so sure

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Speaker 2: that there is any conventional wisdom anymore about the electric

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Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why. There's been this explosion of

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Speaker 2: non major party voters here in Nevada. And I mean

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Speaker 2: they are there's more of them than there are either

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Speaker 2: Republicans or Democrats.

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Speaker 1: This had been a trend even before motor voter, though right.

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Speaker 2: Not as pronounced though, Chuck, And what happened once motive

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Speaker 2: voter passed is they had. You know, if you don't

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Speaker 2: register as a party, then you're automatically put as a nonpartisan.

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Speaker 2: Now they've adjusted that a little bit, but you still

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Speaker 2: I look at these figures every week because I'm not

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Speaker 2: a normal person chalk and like to see all this data.

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Speaker 2: And I see, you know, sixty more Democrats, sixty more Republicans,

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Speaker 2: and two thousand more nonpartisans.

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Speaker 1: Now, I wonder if that's a if that's a commentary

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Speaker 1: on politics where the average person is like, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: not interested in identify with either party in front of

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Speaker 1: somebody else. I'm going to just be be that. Like

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Speaker 1: it's it's almost it's easier to virtue signal as and

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Speaker 1: independent these days than it is as a partisan. Are

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Speaker 1: a partisan?

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Speaker 2: D There's no question that's going on here in everywhere truck.

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Speaker 2: But I also believe, and I've used the term zombie

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Speaker 2: voters to describe some of these folks who will never vote.

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Speaker 2: And how do you, let's say it's two thousand a week,

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Speaker 2: how do you figure out what number of those two

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Speaker 2: thousand or ones you should go after that they really

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Speaker 2: still care that they may vote. Those are harder to find.

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Speaker 2: Do we register D or R.

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Speaker 1: What look you talk to these statewide strategists. Are they,

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Speaker 1: you know, is either party offering them a welcome basket?

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Speaker 1: Are they like, Hey, you just registered to vote. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you a little bit about urg I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, both of us have kids. Go to college, right,

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Speaker 1: you go in and student organizations or join my organization,

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Speaker 1: join my Do the d's and the rs make a

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Speaker 1: case to these new voters or do they just ignore them?

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Speaker 2: So one of the reasons I thought Trump would still

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Speaker 2: lose here in twenty four is the Democrats have always

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Speaker 2: done a much better job of targeting here than the Republicans.

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Speaker 2: It's not even close to The Republican Party has generally

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Speaker 2: been very inept here. There have been some outside groups

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Speaker 2: that have formed that have done some things, But the

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Speaker 2: Democrats explicitly told me, people I trust that we know

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Speaker 2: who these Democrats in independent clothing. You know. Mark Melman,

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Speaker 2: the Democratic poster, once told me that there's no such

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Speaker 2: thing as an independent John. You just got to strip

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Speaker 2: off their clothing to get to their jersey. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure that's so much true anymore. By the way, Jackie

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Speaker 2: told me that about ten years ago. But the Democrats.

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Speaker 2: I thought that they had targeted enough and they were

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Speaker 2: going to turn them out. But the Republicans haven't done

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Speaker 2: that much. Although I will say that the infrastructure erected

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Speaker 2: by the new governor Joe Lombardo after twenty two looking

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Speaker 2: ahead to twenty four, I think has helped the Republicans.

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Speaker 2: They want to say that they like saying now the

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Speaker 2: Lombardo machine has supplanted the Red machine. We'll see, well,

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Speaker 2: we'll see a lot about that, both in twenty six

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Speaker 2: and in twenty eight. Lombardo's up in twenty six.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, you need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

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Speaker 1: now Pound Law, Pound five two nine law on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same.

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Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

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Speaker 1: unless they win. You are assuming that's going to be

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Speaker 1: a competitive race.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we just got done discussing how hard it

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Speaker 1: is to knock off it income the governor, so I'm

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Speaker 1: I'll admit I'm skeptical. But the sitting ag is a

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Speaker 1: formidable candidate, so I don't want to dismiss uh, mister Ford.

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Speaker 2: So here here's the issue though, Chuck, Yeah, we're still

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Speaker 2: a purple state. The registration number between Democrats and Republicans

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Speaker 2: are very very close. Lombardo has good numbers, I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say invincible type numbers in a purple state, but he

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Speaker 2: has very good people around him. He does have the

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Speaker 2: advantage of incumbency, and he will raise way more money

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Speaker 2: than either the age or his prime. He has a

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Speaker 2: primary opponent at least right now too, who is the

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Speaker 2: chairwoman of the Washoe County Commission. But Ford himself, while

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Speaker 2: very ambitious and has wanted to know, has known where

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Speaker 2: he's wanted to be for a long time here, he

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Speaker 2: has some real baggage and it's starting to come out.

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Speaker 2: And you know this better than anybody. It came out

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Speaker 2: that he had traveled he was out of state a

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Speaker 2: third of the days last year. Now, imagine if you're

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Speaker 2: a campaign consultant what you can do in ads with that.

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Speaker 2: And they are beating that drum every day. Lombardo has

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Speaker 2: a pack that sends out messages on social media to

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Speaker 2: reporters inboxes every day just on that issue, and they

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Speaker 2: have him supporting a so called sanctuary state bill. I

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Speaker 2: think that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but that

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Speaker 2: term is thrown around somewhat recklessly by Republicans. So I

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Speaker 2: think Ford's an underdog. He's probably a six or seven

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Speaker 2: point underdog. But what Lombardo was worried about the most

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Speaker 2: think is what is the Trump factor? We don't know

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Speaker 2: what are his numbers going to look like. And Lombardo,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to say he's done a pretty good job

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Speaker 2: of threading that needle. The Democrats like to call him Maga.

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Speaker 2: He's not Maga, but he has done enough speaking of

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Speaker 2: virtue signaling to Trump to make them keep Trump at Bay.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting there's just three Republican governors in

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Speaker 1: excuse me, four if you count the Vermont governor. But

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Speaker 1: I weirdly he's sort of he's kind of more of

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Speaker 1: an aberration than the other three. I want to make

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Speaker 1: a point about, and that is you have Glenny you

434
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: Unkin in Virginia, Brian Kemp and Georgia Joe Lombardo Nevada.

435
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: Point is, these are places where Joe Biden carried the

436
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: state right, and of course the case of Virginia, Kamala

437
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: Harris also carried. It's not lost in me that the

438
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: Republicans that win there are a little less Maga right

439
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: whatever that, you know. And in another on Earth too,

440
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: Joe Lombardo is a is one of the leading candidates

441
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: for president in twenty twenty eight for the Republican Party.

442
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: And yet I, you know, despite what Nevada partisans might

443
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: think he's nowhere near He's not maga, all right, You

444
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: and I both know he's not nearly maga enough to

445
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: be that. And he because he never could have won

446
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: office anywhere had he been. Do they have ambition beyond

447
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: the state of Nevada, does Lombardo?

448
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, no. He's not a guy who

449
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: wants I mean, he kind of was an accidental candidate

450
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 2: for governor. He had served two terms as sheriff in

451
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: Clark County, and some guys came to him and said,

452
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: you know what, you're the perfect profile. You're from southern Nevada.

453
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: You have a base. We just need to cut into

454
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: the Democrats, and you're the best guy to do it.

455
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: And I think Labarda was more like that. Sounds like

456
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: a neat thing to do well.

457
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: It was sort of very similar to the Youngkin strategy

458
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: in Virginia, which was, yeah, he was a little conservative

459
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: for northern Virginia, but not and out but not a

460
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 1: virus right, not where everybody would be allergic to it.

461
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: And he and he could he had a guy smiley

462
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: type of sales salesman looked to him, which was he

463
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: wasn't going to carry northern Virginia, just like Lombardo wasn't

464
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: in Kerry Clark County, but he wasn't gonna get blown out.

465
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 2: Now, I remember, Siciliac lost to Lombardo by fifteen thousand

466
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: points a point, fifteen thousand votes a point and a half, Chuck,

467
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: and I still believe that because of the Democratic machine

468
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: they got him that close. I mean, Siciliac had a

469
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: COVID hangover to deal with, there was a.

470
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: Lot of money. He shut the strip. I mean, who's

471
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: going to be the Nevada Governor's shut to shut the strip?

472
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that's that's going to be the

473
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: historic explanation for why you get Andrew.

474
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: Was there was a scandal that he had to deal

475
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: with about one of his close friends and donors, Sons,

476
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: getting a COVID testing contract which with the state, which

477
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: Lombardo's team brilliantly exploited. So I think in some ways

478
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 2: Sisilac was to only lose by a point. But by

479
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: the way, Chuck, I should mention so everyone knows Cisilac

480
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: has not taken himself out of running in twenty twenty six,

481
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: and if he believes Ford is weak enough, he might

482
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: get into that race.

483
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Are there people trying to talk him into

484
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: it or is he trying to talk people into supporting him.

485
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: It's still latter for sure. It's going to be very

486
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: difficult for him to raise money now. He has some

487
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: personal wealth, it's unclear how much, but he wants back

488
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: in the game. I think mostly for redemption because he

489
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: thinks what happened was really unfair, that he did the

490
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: best he could with COVID, that this scandal was blown

491
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: out of proportion, et cetera. And so that can be

492
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 2: a very powerful motivator for someone.

493
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: What is how would you so? I had a friend

494
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: of mine who uses who frequently travels to Vegas to

495
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: play poker, and he talks about the few times that

496
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: he's been there when it felt a little light, meaning

497
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: there has been people around, and he described that very recently.

498
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: Is this a Canadian thing or are we starting? Is

499
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: this the Canarian the coal mine on the overall nation's

500
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: overall economy?

501
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it. I think it might be what

502
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: you just said, And there have been stories talking about

503
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: the Las Vegas economy and the issues that exists.

504
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: Now.

505
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: The Canadian thing is not insignificant. People may not know this.

506
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: I think the numbers twenty seven percent of our.

507
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: Answers much bigger than I remember Rida had number I

508
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: went wow. And you know, Orlando's experiencing a similar Canadian falloff,

509
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: which is impacting the theme parks in Orlando. I mean,

510
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, Canada may only be the size of California,

511
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: but California's pretty big state.

512
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: Exactly right. And but that's only part of it, Chuck.

513
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 2: You know, there are some people here who think that

514
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: the fears over the immigration policies have affected this because

515
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: of the large Hispanic populations and the number of Hispanic

516
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: visitors that we have gotten in the past. But one

517
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: factor that's really just endemic to Nevada is that people

518
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: are starting to think that these companies don't provide a

519
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: value proposition anymore. Remember there's been a large changeover and

520
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: who owns these places, and the fact that they're charging

521
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 2: twenty dollars for a bottle of water, doing all kinds

522
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: of little things. Originally this was just bubbling up on

523
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: Reddit threads, but now it's become much more mainstream. The

524
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: Convention Authority is seeing it in their post visitation surveys,

525
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: and visitation has been going down if, by the way,

526
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: if it weren't for Baccarat and the high rollers losing

527
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: all their money at Baccarat, then numbers would be even

528
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: worse interesting.

529
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: And so it's more of the corporatization of the casinos

530
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: and that mindset, because you know, the whole point of

531
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: Vegas was, oh, you can get a cheap room. Why

532
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: can you get a cheap room because they're going to

533
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: make money on you in other ways. You know, it's interesting,

534
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: John Is this is the same complain about Disney World.

535
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: We're Disney World is so expensive now, and then they

536
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: make you buy access to a short pass or whatever,

537
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: so the no line thing, and but all of a

538
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: sudden you're charged all these different subsets of money that

539
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: used to feel Grottis and Vegas was the town of Grottis.

540
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely right. And by the way, I went to Disney

541
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: World for the first time with my family and my

542
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: brother's family, and I know exactly what you're talking about.

543
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: Last year that was really something. But Vegas that is

544
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: starting to become I viewed now and as I said,

545
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: there's been several national stories talking about this kind of backlash. Uh,

546
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: And so it's not like we're in a recession, but

547
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: there are real worries about about the economy. I think,

548
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: by the way, that could have a huge impact on

549
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: the governor's right.

550
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was just going to say. I

551
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: mean that that is, you know, when America gets a

552
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: cold economic cold, Nevada gets the flu, which has always

553
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: been this is why it's like usually the first place

554
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: you see sniff, right, And that's what That's what my

555
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: friend was reacting to. So let me ask this. There's

556
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: always been an effort to diversify the Nevada economy. There's

557
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: only so much diversification when you're when Vegas is what

558
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: it is. But what kind of progress has been made

559
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: on diversification? What's real data centers?

560
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's been data centers that have been

561
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: other tech stuff, a lot of it in Reno, by

562
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: the way, or near Reno, where Tesla has this gigafactory,

563
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: as you may know, and Apple and Google have interests

564
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: up there. Not as much in Clark County as you

565
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: might think. The big push now and there's going to

566
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: be a special session of the legislature to decide this

567
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: is whether we should become Hollywood East. Mark Wahlberg and

568
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: Jeremy Renner, both of whom live here have residences now

569
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: in Nevada, are pushing this. It's a film tax credit bill,

570
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: which has been very controversial both here and elsewhere. There's

571
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence elsewhere that it has not worked

572
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: out as well. But they're saying this is going to

573
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: create all kinds of jobs, create a new industry here.

574
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: I still think, Chuck, it's very, very difficult to diversify

575
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 2: this economy for the reasons that you understand. The gaming

576
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: is just so dominant, and listen, I think there have

577
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: been some really good, smart people who have tried to

578
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: do this at the state level and at the local

579
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: convention authority level, but it's very, very difficult. And I

580
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: don't think that building a huge studio in summer, which

581
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: is what the proposal is, is going to totally change

582
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: the dynamic. It may be good for the state, but

583
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: I don't know.

584
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: Movie tax credits or the riverboat casinos of the twenty

585
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: first century, you know what I mean by that.

586
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: There are some people who think that this is again

587
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: talking about math, This is just getting to the right

588
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: number of votes in the legislature to get this done.

589
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: So what happens is the initial hit feels good. Tax

590
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: credit in Santa Fe in New Mexico, the film tax

591
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: credit in Atlanta, you get like one big entity. You

592
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: got it in Atlanta, you got it in New Mexico,

593
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you know, it's like, well,

594
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. My son goes to school

595
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: in Dallas. He's now discovered. He and his friends have

596
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: discovered eight it's under twenty. If you're eighteen, you can

597
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: gamble in Oklahoma. Well, the second Texas gets casinos, nobody's

598
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: traveling to Oklahoma. So and that's what I mean by

599
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: the riverboat craze, where you know it made sense until everybody,

600
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, oh, well, now you know we used to

601
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: have the only place to gamble on the East coast

602
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: in the Mid Atlantic was in West Virginia. And then

603
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: Maryland happened, and then Delaware happened, and then you know,

604
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So it's like why Mohegan sun

605
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: in Connecticut really hurt Atlantic City? I mean, you get

606
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: where I'm going. That's what this film tax credit feels like.

607
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: Everybody does it, and then when everybody does it, then

608
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, what have you created? Right on

609
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 1: that front. So I get that, but what about energy.

610
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: I mean, if I were to me, the most realistic

611
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: way to diversify the economy is to sort of double

612
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: down on energy, right, whether it's solar, whether it's these

613
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: portable nuclear plants. Although I know Yucka mountains a whole

614
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: separate conversation, but it feels as if the energy industry

615
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: in theory could be a place to go.

616
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: No. Yes, And then you know, there's been a lot

617
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: of controversy lady, because there's this huge solar project that

618
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: was planned and Trump has slowed that down and they

619
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: may even be canceled, and so they're trying to save that.

620
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: But you also have the very very powerful utility monopoly

621
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 2: here that's owned by Warren Buffett, by the way, that

622
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: has blocked a lot of these efforts because they want

623
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: it for themselves if it ever happens, And so there

624
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: is that kind of politics.

625
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: Rick Sture Hathaway controls the power out there.

626
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, Berkshire Hathaway bought the company is called Envy Energy.

627
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: It's been five eight years now, I forget how long

628
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: it's been.

629
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: I remember, I think I remember you bringing this up once.

630
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: It was it's amazing of public utilities owned by a

631
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: private company.

632
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and uh, it's it's a monopoly and has

633
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of political power here in the state.

634
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: I bet it does.

635
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: And and so what they want they usually get. And

636
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: so you know, they they don't want a bunch of

637
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: other companies coming in here and doing solar. They want

638
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: to do solar on their own timeline. And of course

639
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: this Sierra Club and all the others are apoplectic about

640
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: all of this, but they don't have the cloud that

641
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: Envy Energy does.

642
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: Let's talk about nonprofit versus for profit journalism. So you

643
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: have said and look, you you have kept the Nevada Independent.

644
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: It is still free. If you don't want to subscribe,

645
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: what have you done on that? You have no paywall?

646
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: Right, you have no paywall. It is free. We survive

647
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: on donations of all kinds, whether it's you know, the

648
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: people pay five dollars a month or corporations that I've

649
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: believe it or not, chuck charmed into giving us a

650
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: whole bunch of money. But that there's no paywall. We

651
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: will never have a paywall.

652
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: How do you handle you know, the corporations that you're

653
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: going to cover what's the how do you just you know,

654
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: I assume you must have an upfront conversation with these

655
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: bigger donors who want to give on a corporate because

656
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: you guys are very transparent about it. I mean, you're

657
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: one of those You're like, hey, look i'll be NASCAR.

658
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: Here are my sponsors, and it to me, it's such

659
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: a variety that it's you can't pin you down, which

660
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: is exactly what you want. But I assume you have

661
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: a let's have a realistic conversation. You know, you have

662
00:35:53,760 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: an issue with something I am covering, you know, what

663
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: do you say to them?

664
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 2: You know, it's a great question, and I think you'll

665
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: be surprised that the answered Chuck. And it's hard for

666
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: this to not sound self aggrandizing, but you know, I

667
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: built a reputation over thirty five years in this state

668
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: for a certain kind of journalism, and so when I

669
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: went to these corporations, originally I didn't have to ask

670
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 2: that conversation. I had that because they knew they knew they.

671
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: Wou But you started this in the pre Trump era,

672
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: and I do think that's an important part because Trump

673
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: is sort of forced a conversation that you're either with

674
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: them or against them. There is no nuance, there is

675
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: no middle or ground, there's no gray area.

676
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting about that is I started the India

677
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: on January seventeenth, twenty seventeen. So think about that, so

678
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: not barely the pre Trump era, right like three days

679
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: or so. Excuse me, so listen. But the key person

680
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 2: to mention, who is not unrelated to Trump in this

681
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: sense of Sheldon Adelson, who who was the biggest donor

682
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: to the Republican Party, had just purchased the Las Vegas

683
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: Review Journal, and so I saw an opportunity there. Some

684
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: people were worried that he was just going to use

685
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 2: it as his political play thing. Horror, what a shocking speculation.

686
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: That turned out to beat, Chuck, and so people were

687
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 2: willing to get for that reason. But having said that,

688
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: through the years, and we're going to be nine years

689
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: old pretty soon, I can't believe it, Chuck, It's been.

690
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: I could spend all day talking about what a roller

691
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: coaster rideing the mistakes and the things that I've done right,

692
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: But I know of only one instance in which a

693
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: major donor called to complain. Wasn't to me. It was

694
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: after I had bumped myself up to CEO to the editor,

695
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: and that person got nowhere. And I think that people

696
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: just have a yearning, even people in business, for places

697
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: that they can read and in depth information and know

698
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: what's really going on so they could make business decisions

699
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: based on that. And so you have kind of an

700
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: implosion of the of the mainstream media here that occurred

701
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: with the Review Journal losing a lot of credibility because

702
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 2: of Battle said.

703
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: There was a Sinclair by bought up. What are your affiliates, right?

704
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: I think sink sinclaira owns two affiliates in this day,

705
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: one in Vegas, one in Reno, and in fact I

706
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: got fired from a Sinclair film, but that's a different story. Check.

707
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: But anyhow, the Sun has essentially retrench covers entertainment in

708
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: sports not a lot more, and the Reno Gazette Journal

709
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 2: has been hollowed out by Gannett. And so even though

710
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: that's terrible for journalism, it is a nerd to our benefit,

711
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: and we've been able to expand into northern Nevada as well.

712
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: We're the only statewide news organization now. So if you're

713
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: seen as the go to place, essentially the only place,

714
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 2: then that helps with donations.

715
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: So because there's some of these other nonprofits that I've

716
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: come across that have run into donor fatigue in about

717
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: year seven, eight, nine, ten, how have you dealt with

718
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: donor fatigue?

719
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: Can you hear my sigh? Yeah, exactly, it's Chuck. This

720
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: is still I still say that's the most exhilarating and

721
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: the hardest thing that I'd ever done in my career.

722
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: And as you know, and as you've done a lot

723
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 2: of different things in your career, the hardest thing I've

724
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: ever had to do, Chuck, was about in my professional

725
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: like was about a year and a half ago when

726
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: I had to lay off four people.

727
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: I did that once, worst thing I still have nightmares about.

728
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: Like it's horrible. And while it may have been the

729
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: best thing in the long run for they ar these

730
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 2: are four people I liked. I helped three of them

731
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: at least find other jobs. But still it was just

732
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: a horrendous thing to have to go through. And it

733
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: was maybe because I, I you know, got ahead of

734
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: myself and thinking how big that we could get and

735
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: thinking that certain things would come through that didn't. But

736
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: we've rebounded now and then through the work of our

737
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: revenue team and me just really beating the bushes. We

738
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,959
Speaker 2: now have more money in the bank than we've ever had,

739
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: and yet Chuck, Yet, as I look towards the end

740
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six, we're not sustainable.

741
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: Yet I can't. I still wake up every morning and

742
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: the first thing I do is I click on the

743
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 2: bank accounts so I can project how much revenue we

744
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: have and how far out it goes. It's harrowing to

745
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: some extent, but it's also a challenge, and I do believe,

746
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: I do believe that the talent, excuse me, the skills

747
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: that made me a good journalist, that is, being shameless

748
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: and ready to ask any question at any time is

749
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: pretty good for fundraising too, because you're just not shy

750
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: about college sting with people what you have to do

751
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: and which you know. As much as I've started to

752
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: be more of a CEO than a journalist, and you know,

753
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: of course I keep close to the journalism, et cetera,

754
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: but I have I've had to devote almost full time

755
00:40:52,800 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: to it and I'm still not done.

756
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: Have you Has it given you a different level of

757
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: respect for the politician?

758
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: I say that all the time. Track it's true, and

759
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: I say the politicians, I know, it really has just

760
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: you know, going and asking people for money and saying

761
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: here's why you should give, which which is easier for

762
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: politicians somewant them. It's hard to make the value argument to.

763
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: Well, well, they're selling an idea. You're selling, Well, you're

764
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: selling an idea, but.

765
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: A different kind of idea. The idea they're selling is

766
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: you put me in office, I'll be good for you.

767
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: In some way. I'm appealing to people's you know, sense

768
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: of civic duty, citizenship, the importance of journalism, which, as

769
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 2: you well know, is getting harder and harder to sell.

770
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I'm I'm sort of I'm obsessed with trying

771
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: to find a revenue stream that's for profit. I've got

772
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: this notion that if that may, youth sports and high

773
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: school sports can be a bit of more of a

774
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: magnet for advertisers. What's the how? Look, I know, to me,

775
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: there's no one revenue answer, and every local organization some

776
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: may subscriptions may be the primary revenue, philanthropy may be

777
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: the primary revenue advertising events. What are the challenges in

778
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: the advertising space that prevent that from being the be

779
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: all end all for you?

780
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 2: Well, there's still not a lot of money to be

781
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: made in digital advertising as much as there used to

782
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: be in print advertising. However, I will tell you, Chuck,

783
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 2: and this is not to my credit. In fact, quite

784
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: the opposite. Until a couple of years ago, I refuse

785
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: to take ads on.

786
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: You remember that, but you but you have sense, right.

787
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: And people like Evan Smith, whom you know from the

788
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: used to run a Texas Tribune and others. I go

789
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: to conferences and they said, how are you doing this?

790
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 2: You're the only one to make ends meet without you

791
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 2: have to take ads, And I said, you know, it

792
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: just feels right. And then finally, like I had an epiphany,

793
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 2: which is like, how stupid are you? If I'm going

794
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: to take two hundred thousand dollars from a casino company,

795
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: why is that different than taking, you know, fifty thousand dollars.

796
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: Do you know what you're doing for them? Well, you

797
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: know what you're doing for them when you promote the

798
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: fact that they gave you money at your event, you're

799
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: advertising for exactly right.

800
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: And listen, either the work stands for itself and it's

801
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 2: separate from any money that you're taking, or it doesn't.

802
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: You mentioned that we're transparent. We mentioned and in every

803
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: story that a donor is mental who who that donor is.

804
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: And a lot of elected officials on both sides, companies

805
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: who run by CEOs or on both sides of the

806
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: spectrum have given to us. And you know, it's you're

807
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: still always going to get oh you're so far left,

808
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: Oh you're a Democrat, all the rest of that stuff.

809
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: But I love telling people really Joe Lombarro, the governor

810
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: by away Chuck has sat down for interviews at events

811
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: of ours four different times with me, and he's about

812
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: to sit down for a fifth one early next year.

813
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: So I mean, listen, that's noise to some extent, but

814
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: it's something that I have to be concerned about.

815
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: So going back to advertising, now that you've decided to

816
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: take it, what is why is there not more advertising

817
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: in the news space? What do you think has been

818
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: Is it because it's programmatic? Is it because it's not

819
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: hyper local? Why doesn't it have the same value proposition?

820
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: Have you guys cracked that code?

821
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: I still think a lot of people don't understand it,

822
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: and you still have to sell why it's important. It

823
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: has become a significant revenue stream for us Chuck in

824
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 2: the last two years, and I was very foolish. I think.

825
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: In fact, I talked to Evan Spent at one point

826
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: like should we take campaign advertising from candidate? My instinct

827
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: was that we should take everything from everybody as long

828
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: as it's lead go a legal business. And Evan told

829
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: me this is interesting that at the Texas Tribute, and

830
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: he argued for years against taking campaign as he thought

831
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: it would look bad, and then he suddenly realized he

832
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: was wrong about it, that it's no different than any

833
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: other kind of advertising, and in some ways it's good

834
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: because you take you take advertising from the Democrat and

835
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: the Republican is going to want to match it. But

836
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 2: get getting back to your original question, maybe it's a

837
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 2: couple questions ago. The key to making this successful check

838
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: is diversifying your revenue base. So we have donors, we

839
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: have foundation grants, we have advertising, and what we've really

840
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: done well in the last few years or events we do.

841
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: We do We do eight or nine events in a year now,

842
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: including something called Indie Fest in a few weeks that

843
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: you're aware of and and that we modeled on trip

844
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 2: fest UH in Texas. And we make a significant amount

845
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: of money off of those events. I have a great

846
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: team that helps sell sponsorships and that's really you have

847
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 2: the diversified revenue you can survive. And by the way,

848
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: I will repeat again, we're not sustainable yet, but I'm

849
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:07,959
Speaker 2: hoping we're going to get there soon.

850
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: Do you own your own building because that is seen

851
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: as something as a way to create And do you

852
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: feel as do you guys meet in one area? Do

853
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: you or is that are you more remote than in

854
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: one newsroom?

855
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm giving you a how to guide

856
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: on how to do this.

857
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: No, well it is. It is, well some of it

858
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: because I've been I've been surveying in this landscape right

859
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: because I really would like to see if we can

860
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: scale it. And I've had a lot of skeptics. You

861
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: can't scale local news, and it's like and yet I

862
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: also don't think we can expand local news if we

863
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: don't have a way to scale it. So that's why

864
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I've had some that argue that, you know,

865
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why so many hedge funds targeted

866
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: newspapers early on, they didn't care about the newspaper. They

867
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: wanted to downtown real estate. Right the Denver Post had

868
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: a great building in downtown Denver. You know the Chicago

869
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: you know the NBC building. It's called the NBC Building

870
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: in Chicago. NBC is like one floor now, right, But

871
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: these these the real estate was the value proposition to

872
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: these hedge funds. They didn't care about the newspaper. But

873
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: the real estate actually could be a way to essentially

874
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: if things, you know, in a recession climate and you

875
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: don't have big donors, you could take a mortgage out

876
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: on your on your real estate truck.

877
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: There is no real estate. I made a decision when

878
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: I started the nd not to have a building because

879
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: I thought I didn't want that cost, which was a

880
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: gamble in some senses that you know, you want to

881
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: create the camaraderie too and have people there and plus, uh,

882
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 2: you know some of these young people. And this has

883
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: been the great part of this is all the young

884
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: people I've had come work from you young yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

885
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: And I didn't know that I could finally say, well, yeah,

886
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm old enough now to maybe mentor some younger reporters.

887
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: I'm definitely old enough, Chuck. But the point is is

888
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: that they adapted to that very very well, and they

889
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: meet in coffee shops, and we had a shared workspace

890
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: that we paid a very small fee for or was

891
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: traded out to us, and so I've never really wanted

892
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: to have a building. The danger is, and I don't

893
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: know if you've come across us as good as these

894
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: young reporters are, some of them think that journalism is

895
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: sitting in their apartment and texting people, texting sources instead

896
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: of getting out there and meeting for lunches or dinners

897
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: or drinks or breakfast or whatever, which I love. That

898
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: was my favorite part of covering politics, being everywhere all

899
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: the time, because you just you pick up so much

900
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: stuff that, oh, say, you can't sit in your apartment

901
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: and text people, get on the phone, go meet people.

902
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 2: I know, Except that's a young people's thing now, Chuck,

903
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: I know.

904
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: Except I was just going to say, the sources they're

905
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: dealing with are their age, and you know what they want, Yeah,

906
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: electronic relationships they don't necessarily.

907
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: Want of them do.

908
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: But you know, we're the old guys and we enjoy that.

909
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: And it's true. You know, I've been asked, you know

910
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: what is going to be lost by not being there?

911
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: If you're a Pentagon reporter And you know, I used

912
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: to say with the White House, I could have done

913
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of my reporting without ever stepping foot

914
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: in the White House. But I could tell you the

915
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: fifteen percent that pays the bills is what gets you that.

916
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's the ability to understand body language, to

917
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: see it, to feel it all. Look, it's one of

918
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: those things you appreciate later in life, not in the moment.

919
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: And that's what's really hard to convey. I think to

920
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 1: these younger reporters before I let you go, we're getting

921
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: close here on time. What would Harry Reid say the

922
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: Democratic Party would need to do today? Because I find

923
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: it interesting that his former chief of staff is using

924
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: his name and hometown as sort of an homage to

925
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: this is what needs to be done. Harry Reid would

926
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: be calling for this giant, big tent that you cannot

927
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: have a a purity test that kicks John Fetterman out,

928
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: that kicks Joe Manchin out, that kicks Mom Donnie out.

929
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: What what would Harry Reid be saying in this moment, Well,

930
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: you to.

931
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 2: Talk about that, and you're referring to Adam Generalston in

932
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: the Search Flight Institute, which he's very proud of meaning

933
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 2: at the Search Flight Institute. Listen, Uh, there's a great

934
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: analogy to take from Harry Reid's career, and it's it's

935
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: in the book Chuck about what he did with Joe

936
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: Lieberman a couple of times. UH and his caucus wanted

937
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: to throw out Lieberman a couple of times, and Reid

938
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: played the long game there and and in it paid

939
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 2: off form especially on Obamacare, although I think he regretted

940
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: it when Joe Lieberman said he was going to vote

941
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: against the public option, which Harry Reid really wanted, but

942
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: he kept Lieberman in the tent. He kept him in

943
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: the tent even though he was in apostate to many

944
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 2: of his caucus colleagues. But I think I think would

945
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: be very not just upset with that what Trump is

946
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 2: doing all the rest of it. Of course he would be,

947
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 2: but I think he would be thinking that Chuck Schumer

948
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: and others should be a lot more pugnacious and effective

949
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: in different ways. I will tell you when I interviewed

950
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: Harry Read for the book, he he died very early

951
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: in this process has been a four and a half

952
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: year odyssey. Book's coming out January twentieth and in case

953
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: you forget to mention to go go pre order it please,

954
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to say that. I think I'm contractually obligatding.

955
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: I didn't realize we're that far away from it.

956
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's three months from today, Chuck, as.

957
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: That means in three months, i'll have you on again.

958
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: After I read the book. We should yeah, we should be.

959
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: I should send you a galley.

960
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: I should have said I'd love to I'd love to

961
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: be sent galley.

962
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: You should send me your address and all we'll do that,

963
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: and Schuster to send you lucky to hear what you

964
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: think of it. But h I asked, Harry read at

965
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 2: one point, you know, tell me what kind of job

966
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: you think Chuck Schumer is doing as your successor. And

967
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: this is in twenty twenty one, one late twenty twenty one,

968
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: and Harry Meats always does. He looks down for about

969
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: five ten seconds and looks up and says, I made

970
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: myself a promise I would never say a negative word

971
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: about Chuck Schumer. John next question, I don't think he

972
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: would be happy with with what Schumer did is doing.

973
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: He he just answered the question. You just that's gonna

974
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: be devastating that that nugget. I mean that says everything. Yeah, yeah,

975
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: because because Harry Reid essentially agreed to humiliate Dick Derbin

976
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: in favor of Chuck Schumer.

977
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 2: And how I saw it, I'm.

978
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: Sorry, there was a total humiliation of Derbin. I understand

979
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: Durbin's reputation, which was he didn't run a very sharp

980
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: his office was undisciplined. Would be the phrase. I'd here

981
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: all the time. Can't have somebody who's undisciplined running. He's

982
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: a great number two and won't be a good number one.

983
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: There were always all these euphemisms that were used in

984
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,479
Speaker 1: my reporting what sources would say, because everybody liked Dick.

985
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to be negative Dick Durbin. They just said, eh,

986
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: it just he lets things slip through the cracks. That

987
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: would be the sort of the was essentially the vibe

988
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: they were doing. So Read really, you know, he had

989
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: to eat it in order to keep Durbin out of this.

990
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: And it sounds like he regrets it.

991
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: Huh. I'm not sure he regrets it. And I think

992
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: that Schumer and Read and loved each other in a way,

993
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 2: but I think that Reid thought Schumer would be more

994
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: effective than Durbin for a variety of reasons. I asked Urban.

995
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: By the way, I interviewed both Durbin and Schumer for

996
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 2: the book, and I asked Urban about being passed over,

997
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: as it were, And of course he handled it very

998
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: diplomatically and even.

999
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: In such a Midwesterner after after I.

1000
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: Pushed him, he still was but he he was a

1001
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: great source for the book, in some ways better than Schumer,

1002
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: although the Schumer stuff in the book is much more

1003
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: and I think this is.

1004
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: Not you're giving away one of Washington's secrets about Durban.

1005
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 1: But anyway, go ahead, Yeah, right, is.

1006
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: That Schumer is that Schumer does at least a couple

1007
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 2: of I told you so on Reid that are very

1008
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 2: I thought were very taste. So like I told Harry

1009
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: you shouldn't go nuclear, and it turns out I was

1010
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 2: right about that kind of thing.

1011
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, I I have you know, it's

1012
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: one of I earned the ire of Reed's office for

1013
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 1: a while because I was Look, I believe the biggest

1014
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: black marks on the on Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid

1015
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: are their collective are there collective actions that delegitimize the

1016
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: judiciary branch? They they couldn't have done it without the other.

1017
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: So I do not accept the premise that only one's

1018
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: more to blame than the other. It's one of those

1019
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: that they were simpatico into this. They went down this

1020
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: hell hole together and here we are. But what that

1021
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that both of them weren't very shrewd and

1022
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: understanding how to manage their caucus in the moment they

1023
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: were living in. And I'm mindful of that as well.

1024
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was tough, Chuck, And you'll appreciate this as

1025
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: a guy who knows even more minutia about politics than

1026
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 2: I do. Is that Harry Reginea access to his archives,

1027
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: which had a thousand boxes and twelve million digital files.

1028
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean, she's enormous.

1029
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: And the people at that university were phenomenon giving me

1030
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 2: spreadsheets and I found a lot of incredible stuff. But

1031
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: my wife, who helped me research this, was in the

1032
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 2: archive with me, and I would show her these documents,

1033
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: say look what I found, and she would say, quite accurately,

1034
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 2: it turns out there are two kinds of things. We're

1035
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: going to find, honey book stuff and John's stuff. And

1036
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: there's so much inside stuff that I would have wanted

1037
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: to keep in the book that I couldn't.

1038
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: John stuff I love.

1039
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: That is so true.

1040
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: I know exactly. My favorite it's at my Obama book.

1041
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: My favorite scoop is something that is such a it

1042
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: never got the traction, and I'm still it was Bob

1043
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: Menendez saved Obamacare because Bob Menende said, Jesus crime and

1044
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: he please don't have this be implemented before the twenty

1045
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: twelve elections. And he was about a wow, the guy

1046
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: who saved Obama's second term, Like I found it to

1047
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: be an amazing nugget. And it was just such an

1048
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: arcane piece of medutia for ninety percent of readers.

1049
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: You know, yes, yes, that's stuff we love, Chuck.

1050
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: So when you say he would expect Schubert to be

1051
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: more pugnacious, would he not? How would he? How would

1052
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: he have had a confrontation? He wouldn't have picked this

1053
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: as the confrontation with Trump? Would he have done something else?

1054
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: Is that right? I don't know.

1055
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I think just from talking

1056
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 2: from thinking about the read that I knew, I think

1057
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: I knew way better than anybody, more than anybody.

1058
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say.

1059
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm talking to some of his staff. I think,

1060
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: I mean, they all tell me that he loved Schumer

1061
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: and he and they did, and they were they were opposites.

1062
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: I thought they were a great team when it was.

1063
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: Schumer was the sort of the guy who went and

1064
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: cajoled the candidate to run and promised him the moon,

1065
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: and read was the cold heart. They you know, I

1066
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: don't know if we want him, yes, we want him,

1067
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 1: go get him type of. They were a nice little

1068
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: good cop bad cop combination, is the sense I got.

1069
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 2: I just think, and you're absolutely right. And he loved that.

1070
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 2: Schumer wanted to go on TV every day because he

1071
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: didn't want to. Oh, he didn't care about that. The

1072
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: few times that he did didn't usually turn out so low.

1073
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I never enjoyed any interview on air

1074
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: that I did of Harry Reid. I enjoyed every off

1075
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: the record session I ever had with Harry Reid.

1076
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. And listen to these zoom sessions I

1077
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: had with him. I did twenty four of them before

1078
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: he passed away, chucking. I mean, they were all I mean,

1079
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: he was still pretty sharp until the end, and there

1080
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: were some priceless things that he said and almost all

1081
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: of them were on the record, but some of them,

1082
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm afraid were relegated to the John stuff category and

1083
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 2: had to be taken out of the book.

1084
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: Can you make a friends and Family edition? Can you

1085
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: give me the John's stuff chapter after the book? That's like,

1086
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: I want a John Stuff chapter because that's the stuff

1087
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna want.

1088
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: Well, I started a sub stack, and I'm starting to

1089
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: put out some of the documents that I didn't use

1090
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 2: in the book. But you know, they thought that Simon

1091
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: and Schuster thought the book was two hundred pages too long.

1092
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 2: I thought the book was two hundred pages to guess

1093
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: who won on that one? Shock and so But listen,

1094
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: I am. I'm I'll say the same here that I've

1095
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: said to everybody who are my friends. I'm excited that

1096
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: that that, at this four and a half hero Odyssey

1097
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: is finally uh. And man, I'm also terrified, uh, sitting

1098
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: in a dark room awaiting the reaction from everybody.

1099
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: No, I guess before I let you go. Are you surprised?

1100
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: It's Jackie Rosen is the one that's voting with Fetterman

1101
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: right and Angus King. Oh. No, Catherine Cortez Master, Catherine

1102
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: court is master. I guess if you had asked me

1103
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: to pick which one would be voting with to open

1104
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: the government, probably been Jackie Rosen, not Catherine Courtez. So

1105
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: what is that surprise you?

1106
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's interesting, Chuck, I wasn't that surprised.

1107
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: She's only so deliberate, so loyally, so careful, and I

1108
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: think the case was made, and I think she believed

1109
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 2: that so many there's so many federal workers in Nevada,

1110
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: that this was the right vote, whether it was the

1111
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: best thing for her politically, and I've heard and you

1112
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: know more about this than I do. I'm sure I've

1113
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 2: heard contrary stories about whether her ambition actually is to

1114
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: be a successor eventually to Chuck Schumer, to do what

1115
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: Harry reidid, and whether this is a good thing for her.

1116
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 2: But you know how the guys like you will meet,

1117
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: we look at every single little thing and say, what's

1118
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: the political motivation?

1119
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: No, I'm just it's it's Angus King, I get it,

1120
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: John Fetterman, I get it. I was just mildly surprised,

1121
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: but only mildly. I do think the state's more swingy

1122
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: and the senators should behave more swingy if they want to,

1123
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: if they want to be there long, if they would

1124
00:59:58,840 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: like to.

1125
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: I think Jackie Rosen was surprised by it, which is interesting.

1126
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah, how's that relationship?

1127
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 2: It was very good and I think it still is

1128
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: pretty good. But if you look at a few comments

1129
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 2: that are made, it seems like there might have been

1130
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 2: some friction caused by this because it's very difficult.

1131
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: But they're both they catch you. I was just going

1132
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: to say, it makes well, you're you're you're you know,

1133
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: the other Democratic senator is voting to open the government.

1134
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: What I mean. Sure, it puts Rosen in a defensive posture.

1135
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: I get it.

1136
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: And every time Rosen attacks the shutdown the Republican's problem. Look,

1137
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: Jackie Rosen's attacking Catherine cord That, Yeah, what's going on?

1138
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: They have fun with that, So I think she was

1139
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: taken a little bit by surprise on that.

1140
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: All right, I'll get you out of here on this.

1141
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: How are you feeling about your Buffalo bills?

1142
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: Chuck? I wish you and I promise not to bring

1143
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: up Miami if you wouldn't.

1144
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: Nolls, Well, I actually think that we're both in the

1145
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: same spot. You have a team that can win it

1146
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: all and a team that can break your heart. It's

1147
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: all at the same time. I mean, Miami's I have this.

1148
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know. My hot take is there will

1149
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: be no undefeated teams in the playoffs, that everybody is

1150
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: likely to have one loss. I think that's I think

1151
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 1: that's more. Look High States House played Michigan and Indiana.

1152
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's just really hard to get twenty year

1153
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: old kids motivated. I don't care how much money you're

1154
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: paying them. So that's my hot take. Yeah, I love it.

1155
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you believe it? It's such a great story.

1156
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: But let me just say what the Bills will be

1157
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: very simple with you. I've been a Bills fan for more.

1158
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 2: I'm much older than you are, been a Bills fan

1159
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: for more than you were born and raised right, yes,

1160
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 2: for more than sixty years. I am used to heartbreak, Chuck,

1161
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 2: I expect heartbreak. I try not to get too excited.

1162
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: They have some real issues, but I still believe and

1163
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: people are going to disagree with me. And Josh Allen

1164
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 2: is the most exciting player I've ever watched in football.

1165
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: I will just tell you this. Growing up in Miami

1166
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties, but Miami Dolph had a

1167
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: quarterback that was extra worldly and never could surround him

1168
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: with a supporting cast that could win the whole thing.

1169
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: I will just simply say, I just you know, there's

1170
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: never a deep threat. I got another former EP of

1171
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: mine that's a big Bills fin John Reese, and he's like,

1172
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're never trying to get to reek Kill

1173
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: and we're never trying to get these speedsters. You got

1174
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: a guy who can literally throw it out of the stadium,

1175
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: but there's nobody that can run underneath it. It is

1176
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: you worry that do they not surround them with enough talent?

1177
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 2: You know, we could have gotten Worthy too, That's the

1178
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 2: story people forget. We could have had Worthy and instead

1179
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: traded and god who a guy from Florida by the

1180
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 2: name of Keon Coleman Florida State.

1181
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: No, and look I could have I have to watch

1182
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: all Florida State. G's my wife with the Florida State

1183
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: Ken Coleman will win a one on one like rebound

1184
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: type of throw. Okay, that's what he does. He was

1185
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: never the guy that got space. He's never the guy

1186
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: that's right. He's not a big pattern like you know,

1187
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: you see some guys and you're like, everybody knows they're

1188
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: trying to throw the ball to him. How come nobody's

1189
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,479
Speaker 1: on him. Well, they just know how to get open.

1190
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: Like ceedee, Lamb is always wide open. You're like, how

1191
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: the hell has that happened? Right, everybody knows he's the

1192
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: number one receiver. Coleman is a What he's great at

1193
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: is winning those one on one So he's a great

1194
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: number two or number three receiver on your team, but

1195
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: he's not your number one. That's the problem.

1196
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 2: Just remember we came this close again to get into

1197
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: the super Bowl last year and had still had no

1198
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: deep threat because Alan put there.

1199
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: He's a one man show, that's right, And.

1200
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: So listen, I'm very worried now. I mean, Bills aren't

1201
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 2: even in first place anymore, and he I'm not used

1202
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 2: to that anymore.

1203
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: The frickin' Patriots, I know again, I know, I know,

1204
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: I know that guy's for real too, though, Chuck, he

1205
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: is froh. I know. I was hoping that the nickname

1206
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: Drake maybe would take off, but I don't know if that's

1207
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,439
Speaker 1: going to happen anymore. Anyway, all right, brother, good luck

1208
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: with the book rollout Nevada Independent. It's where I get

1209
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: my news political news on Nevada. Are you guys is

1210
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: your Have you dabbled in sports? You guys have it right,

1211
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: you've held off on sports.

1212
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 2: It's funny you men mentioned sports. My wife was constantly

1213
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 2: tell me you got to have a sports page. You'll

1214
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: get more readers. We are thinking of hiring somebody to

1215
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: cover at least a business of sports since, as you know,

1216
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: we've become a major league town down way.

1217
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: I guess it is a base No, it's an important

1218
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, and the WNBA in some ways a huge

1219
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: business out there. And Vegas is going to become more

1220
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: of an industry town for sports. So uh, and all

1221
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: of the combat sports come into Vegas, you know, now,

1222
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's a business of sports angle and shoot,

1223
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. More great college football players

1224
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: are coming out of those Las Vegas high schools. Bishop

1225
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: Gorman number one. But you know with Bishop Gorman come

1226
01:04:58,400 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: other upstarts.

1227
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: So Chuck, you're the only DC guy who would know

1228
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 2: what Bishop Gorman is.

1229
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: Well, I'm a recruiting nerd. I know we've had We've

1230
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: had one success out of there. I think Brevin Jordan

1231
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: and one not so success, the quarterback who was like

1232
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: Ohio State by I mean, and yeah, yeah, yeah, the

1233
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: Internet kid, the Netflix kid. You know, I'm talking about

1234
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: where they made the Netflix. Yeah. He just was too short.

1235
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to say it. You know, sometimes

1236
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: there are physical limitations to some of these things. All right,

1237
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: my friend, be good.

1238
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 2: Thanks jud