WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Bob Ellis

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<v Speaker 1>Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Uh, Ladies

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<v Speaker 1>and gentlemen. I can already tell this is gonna be.

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<v Speaker 2>A classic episode already, just based on the pre interviews.

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<v Speaker 2>I usually try to discourage any small talk because I

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<v Speaker 2>always know that something magical is gonna happen and we

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<v Speaker 2>don't have it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's already happened on folks. But that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 1>that you can't continue.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supremest Love. We

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<v Speaker 2>are here with Team Supreme while yeah, you are back

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<v Speaker 2>in Los Angeles or you're in Philly right now.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm back in Los Angeles where you damn?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, No, I was just saying, it's been a long

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<v Speaker 4>I've been that four states and three days of line.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you use it on award tour with Muhammed your man.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I.

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<v Speaker 1>See all right. Well it's good. Glad, you bet glad

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<v Speaker 1>to see the familiar settings on paid bill. You do

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<v Speaker 1>it very one.

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<v Speaker 5>Cool, rocking the suburbs, rocking the suburbs. I can't stop

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<v Speaker 5>doing laundry. I'm fantastic. Everything's good. Did you receive your

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<v Speaker 5>Tony yet or is it still waiting? No September Tony

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<v Speaker 5>September and then you and me go to the Oscars.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to Oscars. Son, Wait, what you got? What

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<v Speaker 1>you got going on? What you got going on?

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<v Speaker 6>That?

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<v Speaker 1>Damn forgot? All right? All right, I forgot you seats

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<v Speaker 1>right next to each other. It'll be great, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>fan Tickeolo. How's it going.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm good, bro, I'm down thirty yes, okay, hey, let's

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<v Speaker 7>hear you. I'm keeping it going, man. I'm taking this

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<v Speaker 7>week right now from what's tonight's dinner. I'm drinking leak, fennol, zucchini,

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<v Speaker 7>tomato and lemon. Y. I gotta drink my salads, y'all.

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<v Speaker 7>I gotta drink my salads.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I didn't eat mine.

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<v Speaker 2>I got so you can't do like tass and then

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<v Speaker 2>like that that I could, But then I'll be lying,

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<v Speaker 2>Grace be like you eat your slish and I'm like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>sure I did.

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<v Speaker 3>And then you know it's faster to just take it

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<v Speaker 3>down I.

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<v Speaker 2>Rather just drink it, because you know, I'm I'm that guy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's easier for me to drink myself. Man, get it,

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<v Speaker 2>get it, how you live, bro?

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<v Speaker 6>I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>We should we should acknowledge that in the five year

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<v Speaker 2>history of the show. Sugar Steve is sitting this one

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<v Speaker 2>out for the first time ever. Sugar Steve's personal friend

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Simon has offered Paul Simon and his wife Edie

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<v Speaker 2>Brucel have offered Steve his Yankee tickets, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's where Steve is right now.

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<v Speaker 3>Amazing sentence.

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<v Speaker 5>I feel like Steve should have been like, hell, no,

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<v Speaker 5>I got a show to do. I'm not going with

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<v Speaker 5>Paul Simon to the Yankees.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, man, but you know this is once in

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<v Speaker 1>a lifetime. You know, he lives with baseball.

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<v Speaker 2>So I will start by saying those that are very

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with podcast know my tendency to ramble on about

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of things, especially all things Soul Trained. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>extreme obsession with it, every aspect of the show, not

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<v Speaker 2>just being a hippus trip in America, but actually being

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<v Speaker 2>a you know, the science behind how the show works.

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<v Speaker 2>And I also learned about the business of how relationships

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<v Speaker 2>are crucial to making a project work. For instance, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the first two seasons of Soul Trained, Don Cornelius had

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<v Speaker 2>sort of leaned on all his resources from Chicago to

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<v Speaker 2>help get the show off. The Road, so you'd see

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of Chicago heavy Curtis lou Verrawl's Gene Chandler,

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<v Speaker 2>Jackie Wilson, all Chicago artists that you know, and nearby Indiana, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>So once the show got really hitting by season three

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<v Speaker 2>and season four, I started to notice several themes like

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<v Speaker 2>the Philly International shows and the Motown shows and all

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<v Speaker 2>the Barry White acts. So all that's saying, even with

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<v Speaker 2>my personal entry into the music business, you know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>as a new act, you have to have someone vouch

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<v Speaker 2>for you and strong arm and muscle you into situations.

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<v Speaker 2>For instance, for my situation, my agent Carol Lewis, world

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<v Speaker 2>famous Carol Lewis from Paid and Fool Caro Lewis, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>before a promoter can even think of getting the Hard

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<v Speaker 2>Not Life tour or the Doctor dre Snoop up and

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<v Speaker 2>Smoke join, you know, she would force promoters to take

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<v Speaker 2>like seven high paying roots gigs just to even have

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<v Speaker 2>a conversation about having a jay Z show whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>So that said, I was always curious to know.

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<v Speaker 2>How an unknown Rufus and Shaka Khan became like majestic

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<v Speaker 2>almost slightly overnight, like two or three years whatever. So

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<v Speaker 2>I would actually look up the histories of the unknown

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<v Speaker 2>artists that were coming on Soul Train and realized that

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<v Speaker 2>most of them had a name in common. And that name,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, was the world famous Bob Ellis, who at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, uh you know, in addition to uh managing

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<v Speaker 2>his then wife Diana Ross, also with Billy Preston, comedian

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<v Speaker 2>Franklin Azai, I believe, but even like with Ron Wood,

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<v Speaker 2>Ron Wood being on soul Train with Billy Preston, that

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<v Speaker 2>was like how that happened? Meet Loaf status quo for

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<v Speaker 2>all you J dillaheads, many status quot samples on his mixtapes.

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<v Speaker 2>Our guest today has pretty much, you know ushered in

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<v Speaker 2>a very important era for a lot of acts in

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<v Speaker 2>the seventies that we've grown up listening to and not

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<v Speaker 2>to mention sprogeny. One of our favorite people on earth,

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<v Speaker 2>Tracy Ellis Ross. You know her father. We are very

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<v Speaker 2>very honored to have on our show today. All Right,

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<v Speaker 2>shall I name it with your proper name or how

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<v Speaker 2>I've known you as just Bob Ellis, because is just.

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<v Speaker 6>Bob Ellis's call?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I was like, do I call you Robert Elvis Stilberstine.

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<v Speaker 6>Or you know I dropped sil Verristine. Uh, you know

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<v Speaker 6>what I think of When I was an intern for

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<v Speaker 6>a PR firm when I moved to Los Angeles. I'll

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<v Speaker 6>tell you real quick, uh, and then we'll get into

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<v Speaker 6>Billy and Chaka.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was an take over you know. Wait, can

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<v Speaker 1>I say your name first? Yeah? Please, and tell me

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<v Speaker 1>welcome Bob ellis to question hit me all right, hit me, honor.

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<v Speaker 6>But I don't know how fast you want to tell

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<v Speaker 6>these stories.

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<v Speaker 1>But the least talking I do, the better.

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<v Speaker 6>Intern you know, at a PR firm, and I basically

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<v Speaker 6>was delivering mail, delivering tickets, you know, to famous actors,

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<v Speaker 6>and they said, what you know, this young kid one

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<v Speaker 6>of you know. That's when the Beach Boys and the

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<v Speaker 6>Beatles were making all this noise, and I'm sure you

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<v Speaker 6>know Motown was started. And so the first client that

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<v Speaker 6>came to this PR firm was Billy Preston and so

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<v Speaker 6>I started to do his PR and then I went

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<v Speaker 6>to England with him and quest I'm telling you that

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<v Speaker 6>within eight weeks I was his manager, okay, and he

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<v Speaker 6>couldn't get off that road. Alan Klein wouldn't release him.

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<v Speaker 6>And James Taylor okay but we were doing I've got

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<v Speaker 6>gold records. We get back, my sweet lord. You know

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<v Speaker 6>I did Bangladesh with George Harrison, So I owe everything

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<v Speaker 6>to Billy Preston. You know, I knew James Cleveland and

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<v Speaker 6>I went to James's church. Billy was the band behind

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<v Speaker 6>James Cleveland. I did a concert with James Cleveland in

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<v Speaker 6>Chicago where eighteen nineteen thousand people came with tam Marines.

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<v Speaker 1>So wait a minute, Billy Preston used to play with

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<v Speaker 1>James Cleveland.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, do I need to say anymore?

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<v Speaker 1>Say it again?

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<v Speaker 6>No? No? Do I need to say anymore because you're smiling? No?

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<v Speaker 8>No, no, no?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this all everything seems to be falling in line now? Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well what I kind of want to start with the beginning?

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<v Speaker 2>Where were you born in?

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<v Speaker 6>Long Brunch, New Jersey? Really yeah, Jersey Shore Asbrey Park Deal,

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<v Speaker 6>Long Brunch.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, what do you know what your what was your

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<v Speaker 1>first musical memory?

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<v Speaker 6>H Bobby v Mon mirtha K.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, because my dad, my dad is is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a tri state do Wop legend. I know all those names,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know.

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<v Speaker 6>What was the same Frankie Crawford, Crockerie proper you know,

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<v Speaker 6>I think Wendy was on BLS two, you know, over

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<v Speaker 6>the years. Anyway, that's how I got started, and it's

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<v Speaker 6>all because of Billy Preston saying what you manage me?

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<v Speaker 6>Then I got involved with the Beatles, and then I

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<v Speaker 6>you know, but I flew. I took a loan out

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<v Speaker 6>and bought two plane tickets and we went to George

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<v Speaker 6>Harrison's out Billy and I.

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<v Speaker 1>But I went and.

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<v Speaker 6>I got a letter, and I know if I got

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<v Speaker 6>George Harrison to sign it, you know that Allan Klein

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<v Speaker 6>couldn't say anything. And I had already got an okay

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<v Speaker 6>from herb Alert and Jerry Moss over at A and M.

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<v Speaker 6>You remember them on Librea. And so we flew to

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<v Speaker 6>Henley on Thames where George lived. We stayed overnight, we

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<v Speaker 6>sat in his kitchen. We explained to him the situation

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<v Speaker 6>and they were unaware of the way things were being,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, run over heavy road and apple and he

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<v Speaker 6>and you know, we flew back and the next two days,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, we've had a deal with A and M

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<v Speaker 6>Records and came out without a space.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I ask the question, though, since you had dealings

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<v Speaker 2>with him, can you I've always heard sort of Albert

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<v Speaker 2>Klein's name and throughout the years, especially with the way

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of Paul McCartney speaks of how the ATV

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<v Speaker 2>publishing situation went down with Michael Jackson or the lack

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<v Speaker 2>of control that they had, like what was the the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the business operandi of managers back then, as in,

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<v Speaker 2>like did the Beatles sign a particular contract on which

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<v Speaker 2>they gave all their publishing away before they knew how

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<v Speaker 2>valuable those songs were going to be?

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<v Speaker 6>Or well, don't quote me on this, but I believe

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<v Speaker 6>they were. They were signed as songwriters, you know, like

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<v Speaker 6>a regular job that was better than working in a

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<v Speaker 6>grocery store. So they were a songwriters. So sort of

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<v Speaker 6>like the Brill Building or like exactly the Brill Building,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, with Carol King and and you know, I

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<v Speaker 6>could name them all, but I'm trying to concentrate.

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<v Speaker 8>You know.

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<v Speaker 6>And uh uh And so you know, I just saw

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<v Speaker 6>that's on Hulu, the one two three with Rick Rubin

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<v Speaker 6>that just came out. I think, so sold of Summers

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<v Speaker 6>on Hulu too, right or it is? Yeah, And so

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<v Speaker 6>you know, I just noticed in the last month or

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<v Speaker 6>so quest that the janitor used to pick up the

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<v Speaker 6>lyrics at South of These at Southern The's as a function.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, Paul didn't know about it. Howard Howard Stern

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<v Speaker 6>as him. How did that guy end up with the lyrics?

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<v Speaker 6>You know when we were songwriters, we just ripped the page,

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<v Speaker 6>ripped the page and throw it on the floor. He

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<v Speaker 6>happen't let it be you know or yesterday you know,

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<v Speaker 6>and they went for a million dollars had written lyrics.

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<v Speaker 6>So it was you know back then. Oh, Sharon Osborne's

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<v Speaker 6>father was a big deal in England. Uh as a manager.

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<v Speaker 6>I think he's the first one to hang somebody out

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<v Speaker 6>the window because they weren't weren't doing the right thing

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<v Speaker 6>with with with his acts. You know, the record label.

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<v Speaker 6>We all have heard that story. You know, I was

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<v Speaker 6>around with priority then did he did it? But there

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<v Speaker 6>was always that, you know, everybody was trying to live

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<v Speaker 6>up trust me. It was Sharon Osborne's father that did

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<v Speaker 6>it first.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 6>So so like most acts you know that have been

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<v Speaker 6>taken advantage of, you know, back then, you know, they

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<v Speaker 6>didn't pay it. They were happy to get three percent royalty,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, they were happy to be a songwriter. Well,

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<v Speaker 6>these people were becoming the publishers and co songwriters, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>and and and it was just a way of doing business.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't want to say that it's so you know,

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<v Speaker 6>it's the way they did business back then.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I ask you what year?

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<v Speaker 2>What year did that sort of strong arming mob mentality

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<v Speaker 2>sort of stop? Like in other words, like when did

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<v Speaker 2>the music industry become Starbucks where you couldn't mob your

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<v Speaker 2>way with a baseball bat if you want to into

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 2>a situation was like the in the mom and pop

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.439
<v Speaker 2>labels or or is it still happening?

0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 4>You know?

0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 6>There was Chess Records, uh Mars Chicago, yeahago, you know,

0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.640
<v Speaker 6>and his father, Marshall's father was a strong arm kind

0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 6>of guy. We had when I first signed Rufus, which

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 6>was Billy Preston's band, and they found this girl in

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.719
<v Speaker 6>Chicago who could see, you know, and just to just

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:01.559
<v Speaker 6>to you know, lighten up the conversation, we made a

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 6>record deal at a company called ABC Records. What was

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 6>his name, Otis Otis Smith was the black guy at

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 6>the company. Let's call it urban, but they didn't use

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.079
<v Speaker 6>the word urban. That was R and B. There was

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 6>no rap back then, you know, And so we were

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 6>in the studio I think a record plan alf of

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 6>Losianga and Shaka could sing so clearly, and Stevie Wonder

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.280
<v Speaker 6>happened to be in the other studio and so he

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 6>could hear through the walls because he was Stevie Wonder,

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 6>you know, and so he had to come in and

0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 6>he said, tell me something good, and then she raised

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 6>the note. Tell me, you know I can't sing. Obviously

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.960
<v Speaker 6>I played the telephone. But they were back and forth

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 6>before you know it. You know, Shaka was clever at songwriting,

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 6>and Steve was touching her, trying to get feeling for it,

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 6>and they're going back and forth with notes. Billy used

0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 6>to do that with Ray Charles. We'd go to a

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 6>show and in between songs, he would sing out a note.

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 6>Ray could hear him in the audience, and then play

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 6>that note on the piano, and then Billy would go

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 6>down the piano and play another note from his voice,

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 6>and then go back and forth. And he said, come

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 6>on up here. You know the incredible stuff, you know.

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 6>Going back then, I mean, Billy was involved with Ike Turner,

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 6>Billy was involved with sly Stone. I can remember Phil

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 6>Specterter not being happy with the lights so he just

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:35.640
<v Speaker 6>shot him out. I do remember, don't know I'm in

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 6>this shit. It's just it's just dope. I mean, this

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 6>stuff really happened, you know, Jesus separating the board from

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 6>the studio. Well, they wanted to get a real drum

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 6>sound in the in the where the boards, so they

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 6>knocked the glass out and brought the drums into the board.

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 6>I mean everything been there and done it and then again.

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 6>But that's how Billy was responsible for me just getting involved,

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 6>you know, from got Ronnie Wood. Then in nineteen seventy

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 6>six or seventy five, after we had done all the

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 6>Beatles stuff, the Stones wanted Billy and Mick Taylor just

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 6>quit the Stones. He was the guitar player Brian Jones.

0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.520
<v Speaker 6>Then they got Mick Taylor, and so when they asked

0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 6>me about Billy, Ronnie Wood was with Faces at the

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 6>time and unhappy, and so they both were side men

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 6>on the Goat's Head Soup tour in nineteen seventy six.

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:46.640
<v Speaker 6>I have pictures and so, and then obviously Billy wanted

0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 6>his own career, but we still the Beatles. Billy was

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.680
<v Speaker 6>playing for everybody. That's how if it wasn't for him,

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't have met anybody.

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Wait, wait, you're jumping everywhere. We're going to get to

0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 2>all that. We're going to go through all that. What

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to do is, well, one, what were you

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:12.120
<v Speaker 2>doing right before you managed Billy Preston?

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>What do you think it was about you that asked

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>you to be his manager?

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Like in terms of was it your organizational skills or

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 2>like did you pursue him?

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Did he pursue you?

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 6>It started with pr But let me even go back.

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 6>I was I was a gifted athlete. I played football, basketball,

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 6>and baseball.

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 1>You play football.

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.479
<v Speaker 6>I was an end. I went on to West Virginia

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.119
<v Speaker 6>University and played on.

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.959
<v Speaker 1>A scholarship defensive in or tight end.

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 6>At that time. It was a tight end end guys,

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.119
<v Speaker 6>you know. And so I had all these teammates growing

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 6>up from the little league to the Babe Ruth. I

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 6>didn't come from you know, Blonge Branches, a diverse community,

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 6>and so you know, I was comfortable with everybody. It

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 6>didn't you know, I didn't look at somebody, you know,

0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.639
<v Speaker 6>he was, you know, my teammate. And so to my comfortable,

0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 6>you know, my my my being you know, was was teammates.

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.920
<v Speaker 6>You know, sports was my the only thing in my

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 6>life until I got hurt plant in college. So maybe

0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 6>there was a comfortable zone that Billy and I had.

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.440
<v Speaker 6>But I have that kind of personality, you know that

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.879
<v Speaker 6>you know, you either like me or you don't. You know,

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 6>it's that simple.

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 4>You know, I.

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.879
<v Speaker 6>Throw a lot of emotion into whatever I do. I

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 6>don't know how to do anything one hundred percent. I

0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.239
<v Speaker 6>have to do it one hundred and twenty percent if

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.959
<v Speaker 6>at sixty or seventy, I don't even want to be involved, man,

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.119
<v Speaker 6>I don't want to. I just delive it, breathe it,

0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.120
<v Speaker 6>and do it. And I kind of got that way

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.120
<v Speaker 6>with Billy. You know, I saw how people were taking

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.080
<v Speaker 6>advantage of them. I saw how the Stones were just

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:55.440
<v Speaker 6>paying them as a sideman.

0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.960
<v Speaker 6>Yes, they would give him a gold record and so

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 6>the you know, I met you know, Nick and George

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.520
<v Speaker 6>and Paul and Ringo, and you know, he'd sit there.

0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 6>They didn't give him music. He just played from a feeling.

0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 6>He could read music, you know, and so we just

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 6>hit it off, and Uh, I made him a publishing deal.

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.440
<v Speaker 6>I made him a record deal, and then you know,

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:29.040
<v Speaker 6>then his band was Bobby Watson and Andre uh Andre Fisher,

0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 6>Watson and Tony Maiden.

0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:32.359
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Was this was this before George and Lewis Johnson, the

0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.440
<v Speaker 2>brothers Johnson came into play or were they were the

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Rufous guys with him before the brothers Johnson guys were there.

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.240
<v Speaker 6>We only had one Johnson and that was the first.

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 6>Then he you know, then we were getting touring opportunities

0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.000
<v Speaker 6>and Johnson brothers were talented, so they went on their own.

0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 6>So he replaced them with Tony and Bobby, Tony Watson

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.000
<v Speaker 6>and Bob Okay. So that's how it came to be.

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 6>That was Rufous Okay. His rhythm section was Rufus and

0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 6>then Okay jukka and so in the beginning, if you

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 6>look at the records, it was just Rufus, you know,

0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 6>and then like I don't want to make comparisons, but

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.359
<v Speaker 6>the Supremes and then they you know, to keep everybody happy.

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.120
<v Speaker 6>It was Diana Ross and the Cyprians right supremes when

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.800
<v Speaker 6>she still was a supreme.

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:33.399
<v Speaker 2>Right, I see when we called Preston the fifth beetle,

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.959
<v Speaker 2>was there actual? I mean, of course we know they

0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 2>imploded in seventy seventy one seventy, but was there actual

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:46.399
<v Speaker 2>serious talk about literally making him a fifth Beetle or

0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>did that fifth Beatle talk sort of happen after the fact,

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 2>like after they broke up.

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:57.440
<v Speaker 6>No, it was all part of Billy Preston's magic. He

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.720
<v Speaker 6>even in England he was known as he was the

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.679
<v Speaker 6>only one that was around them that wasn't a Beatle

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 6>and so it was his ability to play and not

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 6>have to hear a note. But add to their music,

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 6>George and Billy were the closest George Harrison and you

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.000
<v Speaker 6>know there was that myth in you know, there was

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 6>a music Express I can't remember, but there were so

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 6>many you know, there were so many magazines in England

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 6>that were music oriented because of what was happening, you

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 6>know with Pink Floyd, you know, Queen led Zeppelin. You know,

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 6>there was just what he was into it. You know,

0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 6>the boy bands came, you know, and then it just

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:44.360
<v Speaker 6>morphed into something different. It's kind of like like clothing

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.240
<v Speaker 6>with you know. Now I see that Pandora's got the

0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:52.399
<v Speaker 6>new station a Studio fifty four. You know, they're bringing

0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 6>back disco and I'm not man, I remember there were

0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.639
<v Speaker 6>burning disco records, you know in the stadium you know,

0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 6>because everybody had had it. I don't even remember what

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.440
<v Speaker 6>stadium it was. Okay, I'll let you ask the questions.

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.840
<v Speaker 6>I get too excited, Yeah, because I still want to know.

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 4>I'm still tripping on the fact that it might have

0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 4>been a black beatle at some point. Is that what

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 4>y'all was saying, like that would have been? Was that

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 4>really a conversation?

0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean he basically Billy Preston came to prominence even

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 2>before as a solo artist because he was he was

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:23.600
<v Speaker 2>there for their very last show.

0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Were you there on that Rooftop show?

0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:31.040
<v Speaker 9>I was not there at the Rooftop Show. I was

0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 9>there for the Let It Be Sessions though, correct? Yes,

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 9>Can you describe what those last days were like?

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Was their tension in the air, like, how how especially

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 2>with Phil Spector as a producer, like what was the

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 2>just the general let It Be sessions like, especially with

0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Preston's involvement with it.

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 6>You know, there was no you know, everybody had their quirks, everybody,

0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 6>you know, but the one thing in common was music.

0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 6>You know, nobody told anybody what to play. It was

0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 6>all done by Felix Crush you you know what I'm

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 6>you know, kind of leading when you're writing a song,

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:14.760
<v Speaker 6>you know the trailer or Paul McCartney, is you know

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.359
<v Speaker 6>the road? He says, pass me the Salt and Pepper.

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.680
<v Speaker 6>I'm sure you've seen it. And Paul says, sergeant Pepper's

0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:22.920
<v Speaker 6>what are you talking to me? He said, no, the

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 6>Salt and Pepper man. And so Paul then says, you

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 6>know it's I haven't seen it. But it's the kind

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.399
<v Speaker 6>of thing you know, when you feed off of one another.

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 6>It's it's unless your studio. I remember, I'm not a musician, So.

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 2>But did you send tension in the air like because

0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 2>they basically broke up on the record that Billy was

0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 2>involved with the most.

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:49.159
<v Speaker 1>So I'm just trying to figure out, like how I

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 1>did not?

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 6>I did not anything, you know, it was just a

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 6>team of people playing music.

0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Can you describe what working with Jerry Moss and and

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Herb Albert were like in the sort of this the

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.159
<v Speaker 2>seventies incarnation of A and M Records.

0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 6>There was another guy to Gil Frieson. I don't know

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 6>what he does now, you know, but they were just

0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 6>absolutely incredible. You know, they had Lou Adler with what

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 6>was his he had a record label within the Moss.

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 6>So it was a I don't know if you remember

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:34.360
<v Speaker 6>they bought the I'm gonna say Laurel and Hardy studios.

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 1>So this Charlie Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin, Yeah, yeah, but.

0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 6>Kind of a unique place in charn Carol Adler, Billy Preston,

0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 6>you know, the you know, all of the acts. Everybody

0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 6>was on the lot. You know, you had to reserve

0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.320
<v Speaker 6>the studio. Sly wanted to record there. It became like

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 6>a record plant the place to record.

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.720
<v Speaker 4>You know, like that's crazy because you know we take

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 4>an episode with Shaka at that building, you did.

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:10.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, Shaka is up for.

0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Hall of Fame this year live Well she was nominated,

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:18.199
<v Speaker 1>but I'll try for next year.

0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:21.399
<v Speaker 6>You know.

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:25.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's you know, it's you. That's a long story.

0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:31.119
<v Speaker 6>That's when you're when you're when you're getting the you know,

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:35.240
<v Speaker 6>the people to vote or however one gets on the

0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 6>Hall of Fame. Maybe maybe I can remind him that

0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:43.920
<v Speaker 6>Diana hasn't been nominated us what that's right, Well, she's.

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Not there as a solo act, but she's there as

0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:46.679
<v Speaker 1>a supreme right, But the.

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Same argument as Tina in a way, right, Like.

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, my personal opinion is it's like, once you're

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>in the Hall of Fame, you should be in the

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Hall of Fame. I meant for me to do solo

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.480
<v Speaker 2>acts in that I mean, and that's basically just too

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 2>nuanced the Hall of Fame as an entity, like, Okay,

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 2>we need somebody exciting.

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:11.959
<v Speaker 4>I kind of feel like, once you're in your bodies

0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:14.399
<v Speaker 4>of work, isn't it like a body of work with

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:17.680
<v Speaker 4>But he had our whole body of work by ourself.

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:18.520
<v Speaker 1>I get it.

0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:21.320
<v Speaker 2>But my whole thing is like, but when when we

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:25.760
<v Speaker 2>start like double dipping, then that just takes other other

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.920
<v Speaker 2>slots away from other people. Like in other words, if Tina,

0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 2>who's already in the rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:36.160
<v Speaker 2>weren't there, then I'm certain that Chicago, Chicago's Sokka would

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:40.720
<v Speaker 2>have been an easy ushering. I mean, it's it's I know,

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's hard. I'm just trying to fix it,

0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:47.159
<v Speaker 2>fix it.

0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 6>I'm aware of it. There's two sides to every maybe

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 6>three sides to every. And it's political too, you know,

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:57.720
<v Speaker 6>it's very political. You know, it's like the Grammys finally

0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.920
<v Speaker 6>they made a chance, you know, I mean, you know,

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:03.720
<v Speaker 6>we could bring up the weekend, but you know, let's

0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:06.960
<v Speaker 6>just stay focused here because I'm going then do you

0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:08.960
<v Speaker 6>want to so?

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:14.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So walk me through the process of in the

0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:17.119
<v Speaker 2>early seventies, walk me through the process of.

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 1>What it really takes to break an artist open.

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Now today we have a different mentality, of course, uh

0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:29.919
<v Speaker 2>to be uh you know, you break your artists out

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>on social media, which spreads faster. But in the seventies,

0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:37.479
<v Speaker 2>with limited resources, as far as like talk shows are concern,

0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:43.640
<v Speaker 2>music shows are concerned, like how do you strategize breaking

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>enact like Billy Preston open, especially when like three of

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:53.040
<v Speaker 2>his biggest hits were instrumentals, right, speaking of space phrase,

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 2>speaking of like all the all those all those like

0:27:56.520 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 2>early songs of his. So how can you walk us

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:04.400
<v Speaker 2>through what your strategy was in breaking him wide open?

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 6>Independence? Do you remember the old independent? Do you know

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 6>that would promote your record, that could guarantee you a

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:12.879
<v Speaker 6>top fifty record?

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, walk us through that for our artists who doesn't know. Okay,

0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 2>So let's take a let's take a we'll it go

0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>or sing a simple I sing a simple no no, no,

0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:23.640
<v Speaker 2>let's do we'll go round in circles.

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 1>So okay, we'll go round in circles?

0:28:26.680 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Is complete it? Now, how do you break that open?

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 2>What's the first thing that happens? What's the first phone

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:34.000
<v Speaker 2>call you make?

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:40.760
<v Speaker 6>Jerry gill herb All believed in this song. There was rhythm,

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:42.920
<v Speaker 6>you know, there was a rhythm to it. It was

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 6>something that you would repeat afterwards. And it was like

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 6>the perfect song for them to get behind. And so

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 6>they hired the promotion department had I would say, twenty

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:02.200
<v Speaker 6>independent guys that could program directors. Got to remember, there

0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 6>wasn't radio. Each didy had their own R and B.

0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 6>You know, it was either a black record or a

0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:12.200
<v Speaker 6>white record or you know, every once in a while,

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:16.120
<v Speaker 6>like you know, you didn't know. But so you could buy,

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:18.720
<v Speaker 6>you know, if the record was good and it was

0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:22.720
<v Speaker 6>getting play on both stations, both sides of the you know,

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:28.040
<v Speaker 6>you could buy, you buy program directors. Now they used

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 6>everything from cash to trips.

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, walkas walkas like whatever. You're allowed to say.

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 2>What I mean, it's been written about a hitman, So okay,

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 2>So at the time when you're hearing the song, are

0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 2>you guys instantly saying this song has the right elements

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:48.480
<v Speaker 2>to actually be a pop hit, or you're just like,

0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 2>let's establish him on the R and B chart first

0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 2>of all. It's like with with with his Beatles sort

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>of pedigree, with with Billy Preston's Beatles pedigree. Are you

0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 2>guys instantly thinking that, okay, that's enough to just instantly

0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 2>take him to the pop charts, or you like, Okay,

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.760
<v Speaker 2>let's establish his black roots first and then we cross

0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:09.760
<v Speaker 2>over to pop like.

0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:14.200
<v Speaker 6>We never thought. We always thought of pop and R

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 6>and B at the time. We never we never categorized

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 6>Billy as an R and B act or as you know,

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:25.040
<v Speaker 6>as a pop act. We just categorized him because of

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.840
<v Speaker 6>the Beatles, because of the interviews, and everybody wanted to

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:29.680
<v Speaker 6>know what it was like to play with the Beatles.

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:32.560
<v Speaker 6>We had some momentum, you know, is that wave you're

0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 6>waiting for? So now how do we ride that wave?

0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.320
<v Speaker 6>You know? So the you know, we knew we had

0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 6>to get a I didn't pay for it, Billy didn't

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 6>pay for it. It was a matter of doing business.

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:47.960
<v Speaker 6>You got these ten independents that could buy major cities,

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:51.240
<v Speaker 6>and then all the small cities would follow the major cities.

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:54.760
<v Speaker 6>Playing those twenty records. You know, and it was paid for.

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:55.920
<v Speaker 6>It was called paola.

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.600
<v Speaker 3>You know, I didn't know they use that word out loud.

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's an old term that I don't, you know,

0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:10.120
<v Speaker 6>use it. TikTok is used now, that's what it was.

0:31:10.240 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 6>I don't even know the algorithm for TikTok, but you

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 6>know you got people popping up selling fifty million downloads,

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 6>you know, from TikTok. I think somebody's selling algorithms.

0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I always always wondered, I think.

0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 3>That over a million TikTok to right box.

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 6>You know, driver's license is good, but come on, man,

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 6>I mean you know.

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>You got Olivia Rodrigo smoke already nice, yeah, Rodrigo, And just.

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:41.880
<v Speaker 6>Like that with anybody. You could take ten top artists

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.240
<v Speaker 6>and they didn't sell that many downloads, you know, So

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 6>you know it's paola. I don't know. Maybe uh, maybe

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 6>you know, the Chinese are selling the algorithms like Facebook doesn't.

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 6>I don't even know anymore. But Iola was was you know,

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.360
<v Speaker 6>you remember going to court. Did I hied them?

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:02.480
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 6>I didn't hire them. All the record companies did, you know?

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 6>And they all got their hands slapped and then for

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 6>a minute it never stopped until iHeart, or until there

0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:15.640
<v Speaker 6>was one program director across the country. You know, I

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:17.640
<v Speaker 6>can't remember when it starts.

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Think like the early two thousands, Like early.

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Thousands, I'm gonna sound scan, Yeah, I think one sound

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:25.480
<v Speaker 2>scan came into play.

0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Then you couldn't just independently.

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:30.760
<v Speaker 6>No, I was after that the man, I can't even

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 6>give you a date because they're they're kind of convoluted.

0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I've been on a couple of until at the time,

0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 2>and I know that for a lot of black acts

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 2>in the seventies, it seemed like a whole new world

0:32:46.800 --> 0:32:49.320
<v Speaker 2>of It's a whole new playing field because all the

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:54.600
<v Speaker 2>limitations that were there in the sixties, as far as

0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.440
<v Speaker 2>non motown black acts in the fifties and forties and

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 2>thirties and twenties and before the seventies, subtenly.

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:04.240
<v Speaker 1>A brand new type of playing field.

0:33:04.280 --> 0:33:06.360
<v Speaker 2>I won't say that's an even level playing field, but

0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll say that it was a new type of playing field,

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:15.160
<v Speaker 2>whereas black acts could sort of experience the kind of

0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:19.720
<v Speaker 2>accolades and bells and whistles that were there for their

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:23.160
<v Speaker 2>rock or white counterparts. So that said, I know that

0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 2>in the seventies there was you there was Sheep Gordon,

0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:35.360
<v Speaker 2>there was Freddy Demand, Bob Cavello, Ruffalo, and I forget yeah,

0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>for all those cats. Is it the equivalent of trying

0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:42.640
<v Speaker 2>to muscle a rebound in an NBA game?

0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Like as far as.

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.160
<v Speaker 8>As far as sports metaphors go, Well, no, no, no,

0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 8>I just mean in terms well, I'm just saying in

0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:54.000
<v Speaker 8>terms of you know, someone's the big dog, you know,

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.240
<v Speaker 8>and you someone's the big dog in the game, and

0:33:57.400 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 8>then you got to figure out how to also muscle

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 8>your way.

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 10>Into a situation so that your act does get on

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 10>Dinah Shore, or your act does get on Don Christmas

0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:09.600
<v Speaker 10>Rock Concert, or your act does get his fifty spins

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:12.400
<v Speaker 10>a week on in particular radio station, like as far

0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:14.919
<v Speaker 10>as your peers were concerned, at least for those those

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:18.440
<v Speaker 10>acts I name, am I naming the correct acts of

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.480
<v Speaker 10>managers that were the super like who who in your opinion,

0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:28.320
<v Speaker 10>were like the top five managers for black acts that

0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 10>were crossover. I mean, do you agree that Demand, Freddie

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 10>DeMann and Shep Gordon Madonna?

0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:39.240
<v Speaker 6>I think back then, but Shep Gordon was my friend,

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:44.719
<v Speaker 6>so so through Luther I had an act. You know,

0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 6>I think that Billy introduced me to Donnie Hathaway. Really yeah,

0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:58.160
<v Speaker 6>but Luther was Shep's act that so was Alice Cooper.

0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:02.960
<v Speaker 6>But I in a guy's a big accountant, accountant's office

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:07.799
<v Speaker 6>called Bert Padell, and yeah, you know what I mean.

0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:12.080
<v Speaker 6>So it was on Broadway and Earl the prol Monroe

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:19.319
<v Speaker 6>had his little record company up there, and uh yeah, yeah,

0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 6>Michael Lang from Woodstock had Joe Cocker. That's how he

0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 6>did You Are So Beautiful. That's how I got that hit.

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.080
<v Speaker 6>Billy wrote it, of course, you know about God, and

0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.239
<v Speaker 6>then Joe Cocker made it, you know, more popular. You know,

0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:40.840
<v Speaker 6>it's just it's being in the right place at the

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:44.360
<v Speaker 6>right time and had some look you know, I know,

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 6>you know, you work your you work together. That A

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 6>side the publishing. Then the B side is just a

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:52.759
<v Speaker 6>B side, but everybody knows the A side is a hit.

0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 6>And then the directors play the B side, but at

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 6>least nide. But do you go with it and say, oh,

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.440
<v Speaker 6>you know, that was the right song all the way.

0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:03.440
<v Speaker 6>And you know, we always believe in the you know,

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:06.080
<v Speaker 6>we like that song too. Everybody take credit for being

0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:08.759
<v Speaker 6>lucky and be at the right place at the right time.

0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 6>Four or five times that I can remember, even with Billy,

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:16.200
<v Speaker 6>you know, everybody's for sure everything sounds good in the studio.

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 6>I used to take the cassette outside and put it

0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:24.240
<v Speaker 6>in my car and say, you know, it's one listening

0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 6>to the studio because let me see it sounds in

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.400
<v Speaker 6>the car. You know, sounds corny. But I wanted to

0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 6>know how that cassette or a track sounded in the car.

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:37.160
<v Speaker 6>I can't even remember, you know. And then not that

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 6>I could even influence a Phil Specter or a Billy

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:44.360
<v Speaker 6>Preston or whoever else I worked with, But you know

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:47.920
<v Speaker 6>I was involved in it, you know, from the beginning,

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 6>you know, go into the studio, to go into the

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:56.880
<v Speaker 6>record label. You know, I'm just it's total involvement. You know,

0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.719
<v Speaker 6>it's a commitment that you make, you know, with even

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.480
<v Speaker 6>even with Neat Loaf, with Shaka, with Rufus, with Billy,

0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:07.400
<v Speaker 6>you know, with the English acts that I've had, you know,

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.600
<v Speaker 6>there's a tremendous commitment. You know, I'd go on the road,

0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 6>I'd be flying, you know, four or five days a week,

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:16.000
<v Speaker 6>so I get to me. Then I have children, and

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 6>then it's not like my ex didn't you know, tour

0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:22.720
<v Speaker 6>you know that was the height of her touring days,

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:26.320
<v Speaker 6>so you know it was a constant commitment. But I

0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:28.200
<v Speaker 6>will tell you that I just brought up a story

0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 6>because you mentioned that the Philly Sound I sold out

0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:35.799
<v Speaker 6>Shase Stadium forty years ago with Shaka and the OJS.

0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:36.719
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:41.720
<v Speaker 6>Really yeah, for ten other acts. But I was involved

0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:43.680
<v Speaker 6>with a promoter and I can't think of his name.

0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 6>Maybe it was Rob Delsner. Question, do you know who

0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:47.320
<v Speaker 6>Ron Delsner is?

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I've heard the name. Uh not, I've heard his name before.

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:55.399
<v Speaker 6>Just then, he's the first one to do Central Park,

0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:57.880
<v Speaker 6>He's the first one to clean it up. He did

0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:00.719
<v Speaker 6>Elton John and Eric Clapton at Chase State during the

0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:03.400
<v Speaker 6>summer and then we re saw the outfield while they

0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:06.360
<v Speaker 6>had three away games. I mean, he is a legend,

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:10.600
<v Speaker 6>it and then Live Nation was formed from his He

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:13.640
<v Speaker 6>has still has the lease on Joan's Beech, which is

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 6>a public you know, it's a state you know. And

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 6>then with Live Day brought pace and bought you know

0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:24.480
<v Speaker 6>that there was before a e g. It was before

0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:30.239
<v Speaker 6>Clancy and uh the Bowery Ballroom do you do you know?

0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 6>I mean the ball reductions, you know, so you know

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:39.160
<v Speaker 6>then I had theaters with Delsner during that forty second redevelopment.

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:40.600
<v Speaker 1>What was your phone book like?

0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Because I also know that relationships like just to be

0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:48.040
<v Speaker 2>a manager, and you're naming all these names, I'm certain,

0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's just like New York connections, I'm certain, like

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:54.360
<v Speaker 2>with Philly with Larry Marshak and all these like Ticket

0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Tron and all all these other.

0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Spots, Billy Preston right too, Yeah, and the early seventies.

0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:08.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's just how exhausting is it maintaining relationships, especially

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 2>when this is such a favor for a favor of business.

0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:17.600
<v Speaker 6>I'm still doing it, Crest, Okay, you know what I mean.

0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 6>I mean it's you know, I mean, I'll match my

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 6>contacts to your contacts on my phone.

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:23.239
<v Speaker 1>Man.

0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:25.680
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I'm still doing it. You know, I'm still

0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:28.080
<v Speaker 6>friends with the guy that made the deal for Priority

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.080
<v Speaker 6>to go to EMI. You know, I stayed in this house.

0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:35.120
<v Speaker 6>That was thirty years ago. He was also the CEO

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:38.279
<v Speaker 6>and Arista Records. You know, he was the CEO for

0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:42.880
<v Speaker 6>Blackwell when Chris brought Bob Marley to America Island Records,

0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:48.040
<v Speaker 6>Yellow Man, all of those people you too. I mean,

0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 6>I can go on and on how many acts that

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:52.879
<v Speaker 6>I've been around, but I developed these relates yellow man.

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Wow, it's fascinating how your story is.

0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 4>Chep's sounds so similar, especially in your beginnings, because it

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:04.879
<v Speaker 4>seemed like both of y'all had artists that just looked,

0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:06.279
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to say, just looked at you, but

0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:08.480
<v Speaker 4>had a conversation, looked at you and said you should

0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:10.799
<v Speaker 4>be a manager, and it just built from there.

0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:11.439
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:13.080
<v Speaker 11>What do you think it is that those artists saw

0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 11>and you, Bob that made them say like, hey, we

0:40:16.600 --> 0:40:17.360
<v Speaker 11>trust you to do this.

0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 6>You know, I I have that that that you know

0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:27.800
<v Speaker 6>Cresh plays the drugs. You know, you don't have some

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.400
<v Speaker 6>uh some hidden tell it. You know, I see on

0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 6>you know American Scott telling an autistic and can see

0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:37.719
<v Speaker 6>can't talk, you know, when they'll sit in the sit

0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:40.520
<v Speaker 6>at the piano and sound like Elton Job. I don't know,

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:43.400
<v Speaker 6>maybe I was, you know, you know the way Billy

0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:45.759
<v Speaker 6>was taught by God to play the piano. You know,

0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:48.480
<v Speaker 6>I don't think you can somebody to play baseball or

0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:50.759
<v Speaker 6>basketball to either have it. You know, I don't care

0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:53.440
<v Speaker 6>if you coach them or tennis, whatever it is. I

0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 6>think that you know, you kind of find your way.

0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 6>I was lucky enough to find my way in life

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 6>and take advance that I had away with people. You

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.880
<v Speaker 6>know that they went away, that they that they liked me,

0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:10.000
<v Speaker 6>but I genuinely liked them. And I never started networking.

0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:12.759
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you know, question, you know I've been. I

0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.520
<v Speaker 6>had a rap label with Africambada and a guy called

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 6>Rockey Buchanan in nineteen eighty five called Strong City.

0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 1>That the guy from Wait a minute, you were part

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 1>of Strong City.

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:26.440
<v Speaker 6>I was half owner.

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah shit, okay, know that that's a busy B and

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:32.440
<v Speaker 1>yeah bussy.

0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.759
<v Speaker 6>B Lady B for Philadelphia, Yes, lady B. Well, I

0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:37.040
<v Speaker 6>had a crush on her man.

0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 1>We all did.

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:45.200
<v Speaker 2>She still looks timeless. Wait okay, so since we're talking

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:49.680
<v Speaker 2>about that, can you what is your general rule of

0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:54.640
<v Speaker 2>thumb for management? I know STEP's whole thing was like, uh,

0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:59.440
<v Speaker 2>don't forget the cash. Rule number two is remember to

0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:03.320
<v Speaker 2>always ever forget. Don't forget the cash. And then world number.

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Three is always remember to never forget, don't get to

0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:08.280
<v Speaker 1>get the cash.

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 2>But for you because even okay, like I know that

0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:19.360
<v Speaker 2>even though I'm social, I don't really I'm a reluctant

0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 2>people person Like, I know that with managing, you have

0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:25.319
<v Speaker 2>to sit and talk to people one on one.

0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 1>You gotta talk with you, you gotta spend time.

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:31.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm personally I'm kind of a hands off guy

0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and like I'll do just enough, just a nuanced a relationship.

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.799
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, was there ever a time in your

0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:42.440
<v Speaker 2>especially in those like first ten years, where you got

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:44.880
<v Speaker 2>an eye roll because you gotta take this guy out

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:48.400
<v Speaker 2>to dinner in order to get spends here, or you know,

0:42:48.520 --> 0:42:52.400
<v Speaker 2>whatever you did to negotiate Billy Preston for that Fast

0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Break movie in the seventies or whatever.

0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:57.360
<v Speaker 1>What are your general rules of management?

0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:00.960
<v Speaker 6>There were no rules. I try to they liked people.

0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.359
<v Speaker 6>Don Cornelius and I were friends before he put Billy

0:43:04.440 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 6>Preston on. Don Cornelius and I played basketball with Mary

0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:12.759
<v Speaker 6>Wilson's second husband, Pedro. You know, we had a regular game.

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:15.279
<v Speaker 6>I was up in Don's house a lot. He Don

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:17.160
<v Speaker 6>had a record label. I don't know if you know this,

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 6>don't have a record label, and that he needed me

0:43:20.160 --> 0:43:22.840
<v Speaker 6>in New York, you know, and you know I'm not

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:25.719
<v Speaker 6>going to be obvious, but I'll be obvious. You know,

0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 6>he knew that he needed somebody a jew in New York,

0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:35.960
<v Speaker 6>you know, to go New York, New York.

0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:38.440
<v Speaker 3>Thank you. We need it. Seemed like everybody needs.

0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 6>And recording quest. I have a story that you might

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:45.880
<v Speaker 6>not think it's funny, but you know that's me.

0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 3>Let's go, let's go.

0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the understand.

0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:57.319
<v Speaker 6>Okay. So it just came to me, all right. So, uh,

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.120
<v Speaker 6>Diana and I are friends. She was picking out a

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.080
<v Speaker 6>gift for Barry Gordy. I happen to be in a

0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:06.160
<v Speaker 6>clothing store. So the first time I meet Berry and

0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:09.360
<v Speaker 6>Smoky and all of those people from Motown that Berry

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.479
<v Speaker 6>have them. You had an entourage, and We're having dinner

0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 6>at Diana South, and I'm really cool. This is fifty two,

0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:18.839
<v Speaker 6>fifty three years ago, and so we're eating soul food

0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:21.040
<v Speaker 6>and you know, I mean, you know, I'd already been

0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:26.080
<v Speaker 6>used to it, but under the crest at that moment,

0:44:26.239 --> 0:44:28.760
<v Speaker 6>at that time, I said, passed me the colored greens.

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:30.799
<v Speaker 1>Yo.

0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 6>There is.

0:44:34.160 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Animation, good life.

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.839
<v Speaker 2>There is our animation right there, laid and gentlemen, Oh

0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:43.360
<v Speaker 2>my god, imagine.

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:43.960
<v Speaker 6>The way they carried on.

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:47.600
<v Speaker 3>And then Diana, I mean, Diana was feeling you. That's

0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 3>so much embarrassment. It's so much from something places.

0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:53.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just want to say, that's what we call

0:44:53.400 --> 0:45:03.359
<v Speaker 1>it Colin Greens from here on out. That's ye. Wait,

0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.320
<v Speaker 1>it's only almost an hour and we only got to

0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:06.960
<v Speaker 1>one client.

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, with with Rufus and Shaka Khan, I gotta I

0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:13.160
<v Speaker 2>gotta skip to rufins in Shaka Khan.

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what at what point do you enter?

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Because I know that Rufus was a band on Epic

0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.759
<v Speaker 2>Records before they went to ABC. How did how did

0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:26.879
<v Speaker 2>you enter into uh managing Rufus in Shaka Khan.

0:45:27.480 --> 0:45:30.200
<v Speaker 6>I'm not sure if it was Bobby Watching or Tony Maiden.

0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:34.239
<v Speaker 6>I was really close with one of them. I think

0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:36.400
<v Speaker 6>it was Tony the guitar player because he used to

0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:40.399
<v Speaker 6>play you remember they used to go mouth Easton put

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:48.960
<v Speaker 6>the chords and somehow yeah, yeah, you know, and so

0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:53.920
<v Speaker 6>we have this relationship and Tony or Bobby found Shaka

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:56.719
<v Speaker 6>and it was Rufus and would I be interested in

0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 6>managing them? And you know, I had to worry about

0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:02.840
<v Speaker 6>Billy being jealous or you know, I don't have to

0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:05.200
<v Speaker 6>say that if a manager has ten X and one

0:46:05.239 --> 0:46:07.440
<v Speaker 6>of them is doing better, you know than the other.

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:11.800
<v Speaker 6>So Shaka and Rufus were opening for Billy Preston, and

0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:14.280
<v Speaker 6>so you know, it was a fine line there before,

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:17.279
<v Speaker 6>you know. And then obviously, just like your children, one

0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:20.840
<v Speaker 6>more successful than the other. And so I watched the

0:46:20.960 --> 0:46:24.040
<v Speaker 6>scales just turn and then Billy was the opening act

0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:27.040
<v Speaker 6>and I was able to deal with it. I mean

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:29.480
<v Speaker 6>I never went out and said, you know, I could

0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:33.239
<v Speaker 6>manage you better. You know, meat Loaf came to me

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:37.239
<v Speaker 6>because I was, you know, considered a real serious kind

0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 6>of guy when it came you know, I'm playful. Yeah,

0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.800
<v Speaker 6>but you know we all did in the seventies, you know.

0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:44.640
<v Speaker 6>But but when it came to work, I didn't want

0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:46.080
<v Speaker 6>to get high with my lawyer. I didn't want to

0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:50.520
<v Speaker 6>get high with my accountant business, you know.

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:51.200
<v Speaker 7>You know.

0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:53.680
<v Speaker 6>So so it was, you know, I always went to

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:56.439
<v Speaker 6>if I didn't know something, I always got somebody better.

0:46:56.600 --> 0:47:00.320
<v Speaker 6>Now I get people that are analytical strategic planners, you know.

0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:03.680
<v Speaker 6>I never, you know, by the accountant that I got

0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:07.719
<v Speaker 6>from Rufus. I never touched anybody's money. Never I get

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:10.680
<v Speaker 6>a and M to pay me my commission direct I had.

0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.760
<v Speaker 6>They had an accountant that was an IRS agent, Billy

0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:16.360
<v Speaker 6>and Shock, and they had total control over their money.

0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:21.839
<v Speaker 6>Couldn fat Meat Love never got involved with his violences,

0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:24.960
<v Speaker 6>you know, always through the record company, And I think

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:27.480
<v Speaker 6>that's the mistake a lot of artists make. We hear

0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:30.719
<v Speaker 6>about Elton John as manager now has a hotel chain,

0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:32.880
<v Speaker 6>you know in the Bahamas, and then they took his

0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:36.239
<v Speaker 6>American Express card away. Billy Joel lost all of us

0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:42.400
<v Speaker 6>from publishing to his brother in law, his sisters, you know,

0:47:42.600 --> 0:47:45.919
<v Speaker 6>and couldn't make his house payments, you know, and took

0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:49.319
<v Speaker 6>years to straighten it out. And so it's one thing,

0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:54.239
<v Speaker 6>you know, I just was aware of other people. Maybe

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:56.600
<v Speaker 6>I'm lucky that I had a mom and dad that

0:47:56.760 --> 0:48:00.279
<v Speaker 6>taught me right from wrong, that gave me no boundaries. Yeah,

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:01.080
<v Speaker 6>I'm really lucky.

0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Let me let me ask you. In the in the

0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 2>imaging of Shaka Khan in the very beginning, you know,

0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 2>the group was kind of quote unquote green, and then

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:22.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, one or two three records in you know,

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:29.760
<v Speaker 2>this new image of Shaka, which is I guess probably

0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:36.320
<v Speaker 2>the perfect balance of Betty Davis, who was totally wild,

0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:39.919
<v Speaker 2>so wild in her imaging that you know she really

0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:43.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of couldn't be marketed, and that of Tina Turner,

0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:47.319
<v Speaker 2>like she sort of rode the middle of it. How

0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:53.200
<v Speaker 2>how instrumental were you in sort of encouraging Shaka? And

0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of saying in a business way, but I

0:48:56.440 --> 0:49:01.600
<v Speaker 2>mean Chicago was, I mean, Shako was very flamboyant and

0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:04.279
<v Speaker 2>wow with their outfits and whatnot, you know, And I

0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:08.320
<v Speaker 2>know that was kind of a first for a mainstream

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:12.200
<v Speaker 2>artist to really, especially a black woman, to do those things,

0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:15.920
<v Speaker 2>even though Tina Turner and Betty Davis were kind of

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:19.640
<v Speaker 2>out the gate, but she Shackle like perfected it. How

0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:23.920
<v Speaker 2>instrumental were you in sort of encouraging like the wild

0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 2>outfits and the and just her general imaging.

0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:33.000
<v Speaker 6>Well, if you notice on her early records, I tried

0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:36.680
<v Speaker 6>to create a logo to keep her happy and Rufus

0:49:36.760 --> 0:49:41.160
<v Speaker 6>happy and touring with the Stones. Those lips everybody today

0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.719
<v Speaker 6>still knows all of those are the Rolling Stones. So

0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:48.960
<v Speaker 6>if you look on the early albums, their logo were

0:49:49.040 --> 0:49:53.480
<v Speaker 6>Shopa's Mouth. Okay, you'll see that red logo.

0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:57.960
<v Speaker 2>And I tried to drive it home and then I

0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:02.560
<v Speaker 2>do that that that gave five year old mean nightmares

0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:08.680
<v Speaker 2>with that big ass poster on the wall in the dark, Like, no,

0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:09.920
<v Speaker 2>you can blame me for that.

0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:15.080
<v Speaker 6>Honestly, gosh that okay, well no, no, but she you know,

0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:16.400
<v Speaker 6>she was wonderful.

0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:17.320
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:20.040
<v Speaker 6>I had this idea that she needed to be This

0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:24.960
<v Speaker 6>is way before costumes and you know, and I thought

0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:27.200
<v Speaker 6>she needed to be different, so I dressed her up.

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:31.120
<v Speaker 6>She kind of had this wild Indian look, and I

0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:34.560
<v Speaker 6>happened to be in Denver, and you know, it started

0:50:34.600 --> 0:50:36.759
<v Speaker 6>with a headdress and then it became an outfit and

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.160
<v Speaker 6>then you know, we built on it, you know. And

0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.360
<v Speaker 6>she was really good to work with. I mean, she

0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:45.040
<v Speaker 6>was you know, she was open to ideas. I can't

0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:48.040
<v Speaker 6>say that there were a lot of those were my ideas,

0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 6>but she made the final decision. I would never tell

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:53.000
<v Speaker 6>you you got to record a song, or why don't

0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 6>you bring back Donnie Hathaway or why don't you I'm

0:50:55.960 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 6>very good friends with l She's got some El Barner,

0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:01.640
<v Speaker 6>you know. Do you know Jimmy Varner at all?

0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:04.680
<v Speaker 1>I know Jimmy Her father used to be in The Quick?

0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Really her father? Click? Wait, didn't he play Jackie Wilson

0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:13.719
<v Speaker 1>in and.

0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:16.319
<v Speaker 6>Some Motown stuff? Yeah? He was. He was fun.

0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Played Jackie Wilson in a movie singing stop Dogging Me Around.

0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:23.040
<v Speaker 1>I forget one of those.

0:51:23.680 --> 0:51:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Was it not lebamb but like he yeah, I remember L. L.

0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:31.759
<v Speaker 2>Varner's dad was in a group called Click.

0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:36.200
<v Speaker 6>They're friends of mine, you know, And I'm just I'm

0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:39.560
<v Speaker 6>just thinking how I could keep me entertaining and and

0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:45.600
<v Speaker 6>throw some stuff out there. Shaka Shaka was really easy, uh,

0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:47.799
<v Speaker 6>and you got her. Remember I'm traveling around with Nick

0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:51.759
<v Speaker 6>Jagger and Nobody. Nobody. I mean, they're better live than

0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:59.279
<v Speaker 6>they are by records. You know, I I absorb a lot.

0:51:59.440 --> 0:52:01.920
<v Speaker 6>I take it in like a sponge. And so I'm

0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:05.280
<v Speaker 6>watching Nick. You know, they're not selling all these records,

0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:08.279
<v Speaker 6>but you know there's crowds of people. You can't we

0:52:08.400 --> 0:52:12.120
<v Speaker 6>filled stadiums forty forty years ago.

0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:17.400
<v Speaker 2>We were just talking about like marketing Shaka's wildness in

0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:19.920
<v Speaker 2>a way that you know, I mean, in my opinion,

0:52:20.840 --> 0:52:23.840
<v Speaker 2>like she definitely was one of the first artists that

0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:28.640
<v Speaker 2>really in a nuanced way sold her sexuality in a

0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:32.400
<v Speaker 2>way that was definitely pushing the envelope, but not like

0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:35.360
<v Speaker 2>where Prince would really take it further, and you know

0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 2>the eighties. But I mean for me, that was revolutionary

0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:38.920
<v Speaker 2>in the seventies.

0:52:39.200 --> 0:52:41.400
<v Speaker 4>Sexy, sweet and kind of in natural in a way where.

0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:41.879
<v Speaker 3>You look at all them.

0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but no, I mean I'm watching all like she

0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:49.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, yes, I got it, Yeah, yeah, yeah she

0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:52.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, she used what she got to get what

0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:52.520
<v Speaker 2>she want.

0:52:52.880 --> 0:52:56.640
<v Speaker 6>That was all influenced by and and the way he

0:52:56.800 --> 0:52:59.799
<v Speaker 6>pranstaged and the boas and the stuff that he wore.

0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:02.680
<v Speaker 6>That's around the time of David Bowie, you know. And

0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:04.920
<v Speaker 6>if you would, Mike, you see David or you know.

0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:05.520
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:08.919
<v Speaker 6>So I saw this happening and I tried to bring

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:11.880
<v Speaker 6>it out into in Shaka. I thought she was beautiful

0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:16.200
<v Speaker 6>and she was sexy and without being you know, today

0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:20.879
<v Speaker 6>it's almost overdone. You know, we didn't we working back then,

0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:26.160
<v Speaker 6>but we can be from and want to see more.

0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:30.360
<v Speaker 6>So I was always careful not to offend anybody, you know.

0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:34.560
<v Speaker 6>You know, we all remember the Shannon Jackson and the

0:53:34.800 --> 0:53:37.480
<v Speaker 6>Justin Timberlake. I mean, so many stories pressed the flood

0:53:37.560 --> 0:53:38.399
<v Speaker 6>in and out of my head.

0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>There's the question I always wanted to know though, Like

0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:46.479
<v Speaker 2>one of my all time favorite records, Rufus and Chaka

0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Khan was their album Asked Rufus in seventy seven. But

0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:57.600
<v Speaker 2>I also know that the group imploded that year. And

0:53:57.719 --> 0:54:01.720
<v Speaker 2>that's before you know, they had to you know, replace

0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:07.040
<v Speaker 2>musicians and whatnot. Can you what was the situation like

0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:11.960
<v Speaker 2>in seventy seven that broke the band, the original incarnation

0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of Rufus and Shaka Khan?

0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:14.600
<v Speaker 3>What was that?

0:54:14.760 --> 0:54:17.960
<v Speaker 1>What was the situation that made that happen? If you

0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:18.680
<v Speaker 1>can get into it.

0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:23.640
<v Speaker 6>Every band, every band goes through this, you know, every band,

0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:26.160
<v Speaker 6>you know, when they get too old, you can't get

0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:31.279
<v Speaker 6>back together. But I see Journeys playing Jon's speech. You know,

0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:35.880
<v Speaker 6>they all start to think. With success, you know, they

0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.360
<v Speaker 6>all have opinions that they didn't have before. You know,

0:54:39.480 --> 0:54:43.000
<v Speaker 6>when you're trying to make it, it's not so easy,

0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:49.560
<v Speaker 6>you know, to explain. But I saw the friction, you know,

0:54:49.800 --> 0:54:52.040
<v Speaker 6>as it was happening, and I you know, then we

0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:55.200
<v Speaker 6>take Shaka and it's Rufus with Shaka God. And then

0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:59.480
<v Speaker 6>of course with the success, you know, people are filling

0:54:59.560 --> 0:55:02.480
<v Speaker 6>her ears. She doesn't need Rufous, you'll make, you know,

0:55:02.680 --> 0:55:05.759
<v Speaker 6>instead of splitting it five ways, I don't know. I

0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:09.040
<v Speaker 6>felt the friction. I tried to separate it with Rufous

0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:12.000
<v Speaker 6>and Chakakan, but to reached a point where she was

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:15.080
<v Speaker 6>writing and then you know, she had a boyfriend, and

0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:20.000
<v Speaker 6>it just became very convoluted, and as much as I

0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.240
<v Speaker 6>wanted to keep it together because it was a huge fess.

0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:25.719
<v Speaker 6>You know, we could do two gigs in a day

0:55:26.239 --> 0:55:28.560
<v Speaker 6>at her height, we didn't know where I had a plan.

0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:32.160
<v Speaker 6>You know, She'd played afternoon festival and we'd fly to

0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:35.920
<v Speaker 6>another gig at night. I mean, the weekends were ridiculous

0:55:35.960 --> 0:55:39.760
<v Speaker 6>that during the summer with her, you know, and honest

0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.560
<v Speaker 6>to God, I mean I filled shay Stadium with her

0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:45.440
<v Speaker 6>and the OJS and some five or six other acts.

0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:48.799
<v Speaker 2>How much babysitting did you have to do as far

0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:51.640
<v Speaker 2>as like, did you have to operate out of your

0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:56.000
<v Speaker 2>office or was it like mandatory for you to be

0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:59.720
<v Speaker 2>on site at all times to make sure that everything

0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:01.120
<v Speaker 2>right swimming?

0:56:02.239 --> 0:56:07.120
<v Speaker 6>I had an office, you know, building Johnny Kershner with

0:56:07.239 --> 0:56:13.120
<v Speaker 6>my tenants. Yeah, per Sugarman. Do you know who that is?

0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes? No pursum in Midnight Special, Yes, Yeah, I was.

0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:17.759
<v Speaker 6>I was.

0:56:18.040 --> 0:56:19.799
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid that had to go to bed

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:22.719
<v Speaker 2>at eight o'clock, but his parents were cool enough to

0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:25.520
<v Speaker 2>wake him up at like midnight to watch all those shows.

0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:28.600
<v Speaker 2>So I go to bed at eight, they wake me

0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:30.920
<v Speaker 2>up at eleven forty five. I watched those shows till

0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:34.600
<v Speaker 2>two am, then go back to sleep. So we didn't

0:56:34.600 --> 0:56:36.480
<v Speaker 2>have We didn't have VCRs back then, so it's sort

0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:38.279
<v Speaker 2>of like, this is your only chances. The earth went fire,

0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:38.840
<v Speaker 2>so we.

0:56:38.880 --> 0:56:41.000
<v Speaker 6>Got in trouble. He didn't have streaming, we didn't have

0:56:41.120 --> 0:56:43.600
<v Speaker 6>cell phones. If you're in Houston, Texas, what are you

0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:46.560
<v Speaker 6>gonna do? So, you know, I would always organize that

0:56:46.640 --> 0:56:48.960
<v Speaker 6>we take the two one bedroom suites that make one

0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:52.160
<v Speaker 6>big living room. So we would get sledge hammers and

0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:55.000
<v Speaker 6>because you you know, when you're in Atlanta, there's nothing

0:56:55.080 --> 0:56:57.920
<v Speaker 6>to do, so we'd remove the wall and have a

0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:00.719
<v Speaker 6>big giant suite, you know, so it would be a

0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:03.279
<v Speaker 6>two bedroom with an enormous suite. But we get the

0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:05.640
<v Speaker 6>roadies and we evacuum it. We were really proud of it.

0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:07.759
<v Speaker 6>You know that we did a really nice job.

0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:09.080
<v Speaker 1>You could do that.

0:57:11.600 --> 0:57:12.120
<v Speaker 6>Break them out.

0:57:12.160 --> 0:57:14.480
<v Speaker 1>You could just sledge hammer a room down and the

0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:15.959
<v Speaker 1>hotel be like all right, cool.

0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:18.760
<v Speaker 6>So to make the two living rooms one big room. Yeah,

0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:19.400
<v Speaker 6>all the time.

0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:21.040
<v Speaker 1>So hotel damaging.

0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Was this the seventies thing, like okay, well we'll pay

0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:27.400
<v Speaker 2>the Keith Moon he was he was scared of me.

0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know who of.

0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:37.480
<v Speaker 2>All your clients, who was the most unruly in terms

0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:42.920
<v Speaker 2>of gotta get bail money or gotta make sure the

0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:46.400
<v Speaker 2>press doesn't hear about this, or all right, how much

0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:50.800
<v Speaker 2>hotel damage did they do? Or the plane or without

0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:53.880
<v Speaker 2>saying stories, can you just say the one artist that

0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:56.000
<v Speaker 2>you kind of had to have an eye on more

0:57:56.080 --> 0:57:56.680
<v Speaker 2>than the other.

0:57:56.600 --> 0:58:05.080
<v Speaker 6>One, Billy Preston. Okay, I'm with you. Do him a favor.

0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:07.760
<v Speaker 6>In between his houses, I registered his car to my

0:58:07.920 --> 0:58:10.480
<v Speaker 6>office building. It was still in his name, but so

0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:12.800
<v Speaker 6>that we could get insurance on his cars because he

0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:16.000
<v Speaker 6>was moving into Japanga Canyon. I will tell you he

0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:18.840
<v Speaker 6>was in the studio with sly Stone with Phil Spector

0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:20.680
<v Speaker 6>when they did all of this crazy stuff.

0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:21.600
<v Speaker 1>That's all you have to say.

0:58:21.840 --> 0:58:26.880
<v Speaker 6>Don't know they need beer. So Billy has a little

0:58:26.920 --> 0:58:29.960
<v Speaker 6>friend and he goes to the seven eleven. Hypothetically, I

0:58:30.000 --> 0:58:32.920
<v Speaker 6>don't know where he went. He runs over ten people

0:58:33.280 --> 0:58:39.360
<v Speaker 6>and hits about fifteen cars and brings back studio okay,

0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:40.840
<v Speaker 6>and never says a thing.

0:58:42.320 --> 0:58:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Wait, as warmer time, please say that story one more time.

0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:53.600
<v Speaker 1>That makes sure I heard it correctly.

0:58:54.800 --> 0:59:00.440
<v Speaker 6>So they want some Cavasier and some beer. So they

0:59:00.560 --> 0:59:04.000
<v Speaker 6>send out one of the roadies or whatever you want to,

0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:07.280
<v Speaker 6>you know, one of Billy's friends, and they send them

0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:10.800
<v Speaker 6>out in Billy's car to go and buy beer. Well,

0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:14.880
<v Speaker 6>he ran over you know, six or seven people. He

0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:18.840
<v Speaker 6>hit about fifteen cars and then came back never said

0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:22.240
<v Speaker 6>a thing. Luckily, my roommate was Bob Shapiro.

0:59:22.880 --> 0:59:27.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay before wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

0:59:29.560 --> 0:59:33.040
<v Speaker 6>He that was your roommate with the assistant district attorney

0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:37.360
<v Speaker 6>after Brad Well, somebody introduced me and I said, could

0:59:37.400 --> 0:59:39.680
<v Speaker 6>I stay there for a week. I'm just getting acclimated.

0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:44.800
<v Speaker 6>And I stayed there for two years? Okay, yeah, And

0:59:45.040 --> 0:59:49.920
<v Speaker 6>so you know, so I mean with Billy, with Shaka,

0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.800
<v Speaker 6>I mean he was on speed dial with everybody would

0:59:53.840 --> 0:59:57.120
<v Speaker 6>call me because from my roommate was Bob Shapiro.

0:59:57.400 --> 1:00:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh ja, I mean I don't know, oh ja, legal zoom,

1:00:01.000 --> 1:00:01.640
<v Speaker 3>thank you, Bob.

1:00:01.840 --> 1:00:04.160
<v Speaker 1>That's right, yes, yes.

1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:07.840
<v Speaker 6>The Honest company with Jessica album. You don't know that.

1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:13.680
<v Speaker 6>That's Jesus Christ. Oh you're the greed is nothing compared

1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:17.000
<v Speaker 6>to Honest. But there are eight hundred lawyers. But you know,

1:00:17.320 --> 1:00:20.520
<v Speaker 6>and so Billy was, you know, that's just one of

1:00:20.760 --> 1:00:24.800
<v Speaker 6>many stories. Okay, Billy Preston, but that's a good one,

1:00:26.240 --> 1:00:29.520
<v Speaker 6>thank you. Okay, she's I.

1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:31.800
<v Speaker 4>Just want to know that there was anybody who who

1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:33.720
<v Speaker 4>they wanted you to manage them and you were like,

1:00:34.760 --> 1:00:35.520
<v Speaker 4>it's not a good fit.

1:00:35.760 --> 1:00:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, who did you turn away that asked you demanded

1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:38.800
<v Speaker 1>the best one?

1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:41.240
<v Speaker 6>And for a Dean will tell you. You know, when

1:00:41.240 --> 1:00:42.840
<v Speaker 6>they came to me, I said, I'm too busy.

1:00:43.480 --> 1:00:47.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, wow at the time, who were you busy with?

1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Billy?

1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:52.360
<v Speaker 6>And he'll say, you know, maybe you know, fifty years later,

1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:55.160
<v Speaker 6>maybe you should have thought about managing me because they're

1:00:55.520 --> 1:00:59.200
<v Speaker 6>round and they're still unbelievable lives that part.

1:00:59.320 --> 1:00:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Wait, this is the question I always had wanted to know,

1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:07.200
<v Speaker 2>and even when I played with him, I forgot to ask.

1:01:07.960 --> 1:01:12.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm asking about ron Wood right now, his very first record.

1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I've got my own album to do. Were you his

1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:20.200
<v Speaker 2>manager at the time in Faces and Small Faces or

1:01:21.120 --> 1:01:24.120
<v Speaker 2>were you as manager at the top of ron Wood's career.

1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:28.720
<v Speaker 6>I was not. That was the end of Ronnie Wood's career.

1:01:28.840 --> 1:01:33.440
<v Speaker 6>That's going back, that's even back before Billy the Faces

1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:34.800
<v Speaker 6>and Rod Stewart.

1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you you came to ride ron at the

1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:42.040
<v Speaker 2>beginning of his solo career after he left Faces.

1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:46.040
<v Speaker 6>Yes, well not even he had a solo career, I

1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:48.520
<v Speaker 6>want to be correct. He had a solo career and

1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:51.200
<v Speaker 6>had an album out I think on Warner Brothers, but

1:01:51.760 --> 1:01:55.080
<v Speaker 6>you know, it wasn't it wasn't going anywhere. He didn't

1:01:55.120 --> 1:02:00.400
<v Speaker 6>really have a manager. Uh, they're a manager, and then

1:02:00.440 --> 1:02:05.040
<v Speaker 6>there's managers, you know, and so there are agents, agents

1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:06.640
<v Speaker 6>and of course I don't have to tell you you've

1:02:06.640 --> 1:02:09.000
<v Speaker 6>probably been through a few over the years.

1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:11.240
<v Speaker 2>So just one.

1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, That's how I am. One person.

1:02:17.360 --> 1:02:21.479
<v Speaker 6>Respect loyalty man, I really do. But you know, wood

1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:26.240
<v Speaker 6>he came to me through a divorce and I knew

1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:30.200
<v Speaker 6>the Stones. The Stones contacted me because of Billy pressed

1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.960
<v Speaker 6>it okay, and then I found out they needed a

1:02:33.040 --> 1:02:36.240
<v Speaker 6>guitar player and they interviewed Jeff Beck but he was

1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:41.360
<v Speaker 6>out there and they interviewed Jeff Beck. I remember flying

1:02:41.400 --> 1:02:45.520
<v Speaker 6>to Amsterdam. I remember flying Woody to Amsterdam, I remember.

1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.960
<v Speaker 6>And he had that personality to clicked with Keith like

1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:52.880
<v Speaker 6>Billy did. And uh, you know, they they had to

1:02:53.000 --> 1:02:58.280
<v Speaker 6>earn the respect with Keith. Uh. And so I was

1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:04.960
<v Speaker 6>able to do that Sideman deal on that seventy six tour.

1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:08.640
<v Speaker 6>Then the next tour came out. But Bill, Billy had

1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:12.360
<v Speaker 6>a career maybe nineteen seventy and Wood he stayed with them,

1:03:12.400 --> 1:03:15.480
<v Speaker 6>and then eventually they made him a Stone because he

1:03:15.560 --> 1:03:18.760
<v Speaker 6>fit in. He had his own personality and we call

1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:22.000
<v Speaker 6>him followers today. But he brought more followers, you know,

1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:26.760
<v Speaker 6>to the Stones, more you know, more personality, let's say,

1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:30.520
<v Speaker 6>gave it a new face. I didn't make the deal.

1:03:30.720 --> 1:03:33.320
<v Speaker 6>I made the deal, the first deal for him to

1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:37.120
<v Speaker 6>join as a sideman with Billy Preston in nineteen seventy six.

1:03:37.360 --> 1:03:41.000
<v Speaker 6>I didn make that deal. So that's how Ron was

1:03:41.040 --> 1:03:44.320
<v Speaker 6>on soul train. I get it absolutely. And Ron stayed

1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:47.360
<v Speaker 6>with me in Malibu. But you got to remember Rod

1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:52.200
<v Speaker 6>was living in Los Angeles and so Wood he was,

1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:54.840
<v Speaker 6>you know, we're spending a lot of time in LA

1:03:55.160 --> 1:03:59.760
<v Speaker 6>but he didn't have a home. And I said, you know, Colonda,

1:04:01.040 --> 1:04:03.600
<v Speaker 6>you know, so we lived together for the summer. And

1:04:03.720 --> 1:04:05.840
<v Speaker 6>that was one heck of a summer because as well

1:04:05.920 --> 1:04:08.480
<v Speaker 6>known as Billy was, you know, Wood, he was from

1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:14.000
<v Speaker 6>England and you know, and uh, you know, from the

1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:17.600
<v Speaker 6>house in Malibu colony, and I mean, you cannot believe

1:04:17.720 --> 1:04:22.000
<v Speaker 6>the people that were coming by, you know, Stephen Tyler

1:04:22.080 --> 1:04:26.360
<v Speaker 6>and you know to Keith Moon. Uh what's her name? Uh?

1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:31.680
<v Speaker 6>Bonnie Raid. Wait a minute, who else? The girl? She

1:04:31.840 --> 1:04:33.800
<v Speaker 6>was dating the governor at the time. She was a

1:04:33.920 --> 1:04:41.160
<v Speaker 6>regular Thank you, thank you, But yeah, it went by it.

1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:45.600
<v Speaker 6>Now you're just on it, man, that's the ESPN.

1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm on it. Can you settle this debate?

1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Is it true that Billy Preston is really one of

1:04:55.840 --> 1:04:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the co authors of the Stones Miss You?

1:04:59.440 --> 1:04:59.560
<v Speaker 6>You know?

1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:01.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's one became a monstrous hit.

1:05:01.440 --> 1:05:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I've heard rumors and stories that they were Tory in

1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Paris or whatever. And then Billy Preston played a riff

1:05:07.920 --> 1:05:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and then Mick was like, what's that was?

1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:10.000
<v Speaker 10>That?

1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:10.360
<v Speaker 6>Was that?

1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:11.280
<v Speaker 1>Let's work on it.

1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Was he ever properly compensated or included as a songwriter

1:05:16.840 --> 1:05:17.280
<v Speaker 2>or miss You?

1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Or was it just all glimmer twins and we'll just

1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:21.200
<v Speaker 1>keep you on payroll?

1:05:22.040 --> 1:05:26.200
<v Speaker 6>Glimmer twins. Damn, yeah, Glimmer twins.

1:05:27.920 --> 1:05:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Thanks. Are there any other stories similar to that? Like

1:05:31.080 --> 1:05:33.240
<v Speaker 1>what did he co write My Sweet Lord to?

1:05:33.480 --> 1:05:41.080
<v Speaker 6>Or No, My Sweet Lords is all Billy? That's okay, damn,

1:05:41.240 --> 1:05:44.160
<v Speaker 6>that's all you know, That's that's his roots. That's from

1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:47.760
<v Speaker 6>growing up in James Cleveland's church, you know, that's that's

1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:51.720
<v Speaker 6>what he believed in, you know, the Joe cockerhead. I mean,

1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:55.520
<v Speaker 6>you know Billy played cake walk. I mean I learned

1:05:55.560 --> 1:05:56.280
<v Speaker 6>how to cakewalk.

1:05:57.320 --> 1:05:59.920
<v Speaker 3>No, it's funny because I was, like, you know, when.

1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:01.720
<v Speaker 6>You of the music, you get up and your parents

1:06:01.760 --> 1:06:03.400
<v Speaker 6>are in a in a in a black church.

1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, are you just when is the last time a

1:06:09.040 --> 1:06:11.680
<v Speaker 1>white person taught us the black ship? Never happen before?

1:06:11.760 --> 1:06:13.520
<v Speaker 6>Ever. This is a big night. If it was going

1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:17.800
<v Speaker 6>to be somebody you got to see me moon walk

1:06:19.040 --> 1:06:19.240
<v Speaker 6>and you.

1:06:19.280 --> 1:06:23.120
<v Speaker 3>Get more walk to Okay, so walk walk moon walk.

1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we got it all.

1:06:24.520 --> 1:06:26.760
<v Speaker 4>So wait, Bob, I'm sorry, I mean said not what

1:06:26.840 --> 1:06:28.280
<v Speaker 4>I'll be a crass, but I have a feeling like,

1:06:28.600 --> 1:06:30.000
<v Speaker 4>was was Diana your first sister?

1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:33.080
<v Speaker 3>Was was Diana your first sister?

1:06:34.880 --> 1:06:37.280
<v Speaker 6>Yes? Really? Yes?

1:06:37.680 --> 1:06:38.440
<v Speaker 3>Was she your last?

1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:40.919
<v Speaker 6>Yes?

1:06:42.120 --> 1:06:42.440
<v Speaker 7>Really?

1:06:45.480 --> 1:06:45.760
<v Speaker 6>Books?

1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, actually say I do have a question. Did you

1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:55.120
<v Speaker 2>manage Diana Ross or was she just your wife at

1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:55.400
<v Speaker 2>the time?

1:06:55.960 --> 1:06:58.560
<v Speaker 6>She was just my wife at the time, and the

1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:02.240
<v Speaker 6>very worthy Diana think was just too strong, you know

1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:07.240
<v Speaker 6>found yes, you know she went to RCA, you know,

1:07:07.560 --> 1:07:10.080
<v Speaker 6>so did Michael go to you know, Columbia. You know,

1:07:11.320 --> 1:07:13.840
<v Speaker 6>you know, I have the I have nothing but respect

1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:19.120
<v Speaker 6>from what Barry created and the whole thing. I'll just

1:07:19.240 --> 1:07:22.400
<v Speaker 6>leave it at that, you know. But people grow up,

1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:26.360
<v Speaker 6>you know, and start to ask questions. And so from

1:07:26.440 --> 1:07:30.200
<v Speaker 6>the seventies to the eighties we see as we see

1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:33.560
<v Speaker 6>a change. And then of course Prince you know, you know,

1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:36.440
<v Speaker 6>felt he was a slave to was it Warner brothers

1:07:36.640 --> 1:07:41.480
<v Speaker 6>you know, and just went on strike, you know, slowly

1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:44.720
<v Speaker 6>but surely. There were groundbreaking moments like that. But the

1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:48.400
<v Speaker 6>Stones always paid homage to Muddy and Waters, B B. King,

1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:51.240
<v Speaker 6>you know, all of those John Lee Hooker, I mean,

1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:55.480
<v Speaker 6>they would I can remember going with you know where

1:07:55.680 --> 1:08:00.200
<v Speaker 6>Woody and Keith and Nick you know, just would get

1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.040
<v Speaker 6>on the stage and pay their you know respect. Of course,

1:08:03.080 --> 1:08:09.280
<v Speaker 6>they took all the licks from them, you know. You know,

1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:12.440
<v Speaker 6>Eric Clapton the same thing, you know, but he'd not

1:08:12.720 --> 1:08:15.640
<v Speaker 6>deny it. Eric Clapton will tell you that he learned

1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:19.439
<v Speaker 6>from John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters. And they don't

1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:22.120
<v Speaker 6>deny it. They honor these guys, yeah.

1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.280
<v Speaker 4>But they also did they understand their position and why

1:08:24.600 --> 1:08:27.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, they kind of been pushed forward even past.

1:08:27.640 --> 1:08:29.840
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's interesting in that way, right because they

1:08:29.920 --> 1:08:33.560
<v Speaker 4>have succeeded and sold more record than because of this.

1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:36.120
<v Speaker 6>You know, what can I say? You know a lot

1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:39.200
<v Speaker 6>of people, a lot of people got rich on the

1:08:39.360 --> 1:08:41.960
<v Speaker 6>on the back of other people. You know, it's it

1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.360
<v Speaker 6>doesn't it's not only the music business. Look at the

1:08:44.400 --> 1:08:47.640
<v Speaker 6>basketball players, the foot players. Look at this guy that

1:08:47.760 --> 1:08:50.240
<v Speaker 6>did sixty minutes with the baseball players coming out of

1:08:50.400 --> 1:08:53.639
<v Speaker 6>d R and Cuba, you know, giving them the advance

1:08:53.760 --> 1:08:56.120
<v Speaker 6>because there's you know, eight people sleep into a room,

1:08:56.400 --> 1:08:59.360
<v Speaker 6>but you know they know who's important. But you know,

1:08:59.479 --> 1:09:02.479
<v Speaker 6>then they have to I don't know if anybody sold

1:09:02.560 --> 1:09:06.479
<v Speaker 6>that baseball guy that has a public company that invests

1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:08.799
<v Speaker 6>in the players and you sign away twenty five percent,

1:09:09.040 --> 1:09:10.840
<v Speaker 6>but he takes gover of your family now and he

1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:14.360
<v Speaker 6>takes so he's hitting like six out of the guys

1:09:14.680 --> 1:09:17.280
<v Speaker 6>making it to the major leagues, and he's got a

1:09:17.360 --> 1:09:20.719
<v Speaker 6>hedge fund that you know, takes advantage of these Hispanic

1:09:20.840 --> 1:09:24.800
<v Speaker 6>ball players. You know, but that'll change too. But they're

1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:27.000
<v Speaker 6>getting out of Cuba and they're getting out of dr.

1:09:27.479 --> 1:09:30.320
<v Speaker 6>But you go down to the DR and baseball diamonds

1:09:30.360 --> 1:09:33.400
<v Speaker 6>are like you know, soccer fields in England. You know,

1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:37.519
<v Speaker 6>everybody's playing baseball. It's the way out. It's you know,

1:09:37.720 --> 1:09:40.040
<v Speaker 6>we're just open to it. You know. The Internet has

1:09:40.120 --> 1:09:43.679
<v Speaker 6>made us aware of all of this, uh, this nonsense

1:09:43.760 --> 1:09:48.800
<v Speaker 6>that's going on, and it seems to be not connecting us,

1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:50.760
<v Speaker 6>you know, but separating us.

1:09:50.880 --> 1:09:52.599
<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, because the way you just broke it down

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:55.759
<v Speaker 4>to Bob is like based on at least Billy Preston's story.

1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:57.960
<v Speaker 4>And what we just talked about is like with Muddy

1:09:58.000 --> 1:10:00.000
<v Speaker 4>Waters and all those folks, it's like this music business

1:10:00.200 --> 1:10:01.640
<v Speaker 4>was on their backs and you know most of them

1:10:01.680 --> 1:10:08.160
<v Speaker 4>didn't receive accolades. Are cool, but again, right, and that

1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:10.400
<v Speaker 4>still is what it is when the music business become.

1:10:10.240 --> 1:10:13.240
<v Speaker 3>A billion trillion dollar situation. So it's just it's fascinating

1:10:13.280 --> 1:10:15.080
<v Speaker 3>in the music business in that way. How it's just

1:10:15.479 --> 1:10:16.519
<v Speaker 3>literally on their backs.

1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:20.440
<v Speaker 6>You know, we've seen a tremendous change. You know when

1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:24.200
<v Speaker 6>the Apple came along with the iPod, you know, when

1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:27.800
<v Speaker 6>then there was a Spotify. But before that, there was

1:10:27.840 --> 1:10:31.559
<v Speaker 6>a company at Australia that was playing songs on the internet.

1:10:32.280 --> 1:10:36.000
<v Speaker 6>Uh it was actually a Facebook movie because he was

1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:37.720
<v Speaker 6>one of the investors in Facebook.

1:10:37.960 --> 1:10:38.599
<v Speaker 1>What was then.

1:10:40.360 --> 1:10:44.000
<v Speaker 6>Yes, thank you, thank you. Do you know, do you

1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:52.400
<v Speaker 6>remember any of those stories. Napster was the first streaming

1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:55.280
<v Speaker 6>service for music, but you didn't nobody got paid. It

1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:58.600
<v Speaker 6>was like the boats off of England that could broadcast

1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:06.240
<v Speaker 6>you know, rock and roll music, pirate radio. Yeah, I've

1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:10.000
<v Speaker 6>seen some headshaking you you remember those stories. Yeah, of

1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:11.720
<v Speaker 6>course there was a film done.

1:11:12.760 --> 1:11:14.479
<v Speaker 3>I love that film. I saw that it was good

1:11:14.840 --> 1:11:15.160
<v Speaker 3>about the.

1:11:16.680 --> 1:11:18.479
<v Speaker 6>You know, we're going about fifty five years.

1:11:23.720 --> 1:11:29.960
<v Speaker 2>What was it about meat Loof that told you, all right,

1:11:30.680 --> 1:11:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna take a chance on this guy, because you know,

1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:38.680
<v Speaker 2>even with even with sort of Todd Rundron And I

1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:42.439
<v Speaker 2>said that, uh, incorrect, because Steve's not here to correct me.

1:11:43.160 --> 1:11:48.120
<v Speaker 2>He gets mad when I mispronounced Tod's name. My pelt Philadelphia. No, no, no,

1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:52.519
<v Speaker 2>But how what was it about meat Loaf? Because I,

1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:55.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know that, you know, in the seventies

1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you could sell any artists. I sort of feel like

1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:02.920
<v Speaker 2>after Christopher crossed the Grammys in the eighties, that's when

1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:07.200
<v Speaker 2>the age of the mami artist was over.

1:12:07.720 --> 1:12:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Like you had to have a look, a good look

1:12:10.800 --> 1:12:12.479
<v Speaker 1>or a unique look, memorable look.

1:12:14.000 --> 1:12:16.679
<v Speaker 2>After that point, now we're sort of like getting away

1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:18.040
<v Speaker 2>from body steaming all those things.

1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:20.360
<v Speaker 1>But it was like at the time.

1:12:20.560 --> 1:12:25.640
<v Speaker 2>When you're being approached by Meatloaf, like what was it

1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:29.479
<v Speaker 2>about him that said, you know what, this is gonna work?

1:12:31.840 --> 1:12:32.000
<v Speaker 6>You know?

1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:35.439
<v Speaker 1>And how did you get twelve million people to agree

1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:35.680
<v Speaker 1>with you?

1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:37.000
<v Speaker 4>You know?

1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:40.320
<v Speaker 6>Once again, you know, I was around. I got to

1:12:40.360 --> 1:12:45.920
<v Speaker 6>see the Who Do Tommy, which is the first opera

1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:48.600
<v Speaker 6>rock and roll opera. Tina Turner was.

1:12:49.360 --> 1:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Acid Queen a Queen Theater, High Theater, yeah, Radio City and.

1:12:56.920 --> 1:12:59.760
<v Speaker 6>At the Palladium or whatever it was in England. You know.

1:12:59.840 --> 1:13:03.120
<v Speaker 6>I I think that helped her career, you know, by

1:13:03.320 --> 1:13:06.320
<v Speaker 6>being involved crossover kind of. I don't know if it

1:13:06.360 --> 1:13:09.760
<v Speaker 6>crossed over, but this rock and roll opera, and I

1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:13.800
<v Speaker 6>knew that there was something there, you know, and neat Loaf,

1:13:14.720 --> 1:13:19.880
<v Speaker 6>although I wasn't the first manager, but Todd Rundgod was,

1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:24.639
<v Speaker 6>you know, was Jim Steinman and Todd are the reason

1:13:25.280 --> 1:13:29.160
<v Speaker 6>that this rock opera happened, you know. And because I'm

1:13:29.200 --> 1:13:33.040
<v Speaker 6>aware of the Who and Townshend, you know, and Daltry,

1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:36.439
<v Speaker 6>and I'm watching these live performances because I'm part of

1:13:36.520 --> 1:13:40.840
<v Speaker 6>that inner circle, you know, I'm hearing something, you know,

1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:43.720
<v Speaker 6>where it doesn't have to be a whole opera, so

1:13:44.040 --> 1:13:45.680
<v Speaker 6>it has to be an extravaganza.

1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:45.880
<v Speaker 4>You know.

1:13:45.960 --> 1:13:49.599
<v Speaker 6>It's when we had Biro, when Emerson Lake and Palmer,

1:13:49.640 --> 1:13:52.559
<v Speaker 6>the piano would go around while he's playing the grand piano,

1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:55.639
<v Speaker 6>The entire piano was going around. If you ever saw

1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:00.960
<v Speaker 6>some of those bands, and the special effect that they

1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:04.479
<v Speaker 6>had was incredible. So I mean, I'm seeing at Zeppelin

1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:08.200
<v Speaker 6>ping Floyd. You remember they used to fly things in

1:14:08.320 --> 1:14:13.799
<v Speaker 6>the air that he was there. You know, I'm aware

1:14:13.840 --> 1:14:15.800
<v Speaker 6>of it. So I tried to bring it into a

1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:21.880
<v Speaker 6>stage performance where you know, I had a forty foot motorcycle.

1:14:22.360 --> 1:14:24.960
<v Speaker 6>You know that actually you could ride and smoke came

1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:27.600
<v Speaker 6>out of the you know, smoke came out of the

1:14:28.000 --> 1:14:30.680
<v Speaker 6>there's you know, it was part of the stage. It

1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:34.479
<v Speaker 6>was part of the staging. Back then, you know, you

1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:36.960
<v Speaker 6>had to you know, we were competing, you know, to

1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:40.519
<v Speaker 6>draw attention. But in England, you know, whatever he did,

1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:43.479
<v Speaker 6>you know, he was on the charters for two years.

1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:46.600
<v Speaker 6>You know, it was absolutely incredible. So we moved, We

1:14:46.800 --> 1:14:51.599
<v Speaker 6>moved to England. We were lucky enough to be put

1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:54.400
<v Speaker 6>up in England and then we just we could tour England.

1:14:54.600 --> 1:14:57.720
<v Speaker 6>You know, go around the entire country Scotland, you know,

1:14:59.280 --> 1:15:01.880
<v Speaker 6>Ireland and then come back. Or we could do you know,

1:15:02.000 --> 1:15:04.680
<v Speaker 6>we could do Wembley Stadium again, not the stadium, but

1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:05.599
<v Speaker 6>the indoor.

1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:08.920
<v Speaker 1>But what I want to know is that ba Al

1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>of Hell was his first record.

1:15:10.880 --> 1:15:15.639
<v Speaker 2>So it's like I would think in breaking an artist

1:15:15.760 --> 1:15:18.519
<v Speaker 2>like you start off small, like you, you know, you

1:15:18.920 --> 1:15:21.599
<v Speaker 2>play the troubadour, you play the thing. But I mean,

1:15:22.040 --> 1:15:27.000
<v Speaker 2>am I to believe that this unknown, unproven act just

1:15:27.120 --> 1:15:31.080
<v Speaker 2>comes out the gate and you're instantly thinking, and I

1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:34.720
<v Speaker 2>know it had to be costly expensive rock opera and

1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:36.759
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna sell gazillion units.

1:15:36.920 --> 1:15:39.200
<v Speaker 6>It's not even gonna believe this story, and you can't

1:15:39.240 --> 1:15:44.240
<v Speaker 6>make this stuff up. Then if the rented comes out, okay,

1:15:45.040 --> 1:15:48.920
<v Speaker 6>you know he's an ex football player, aligneman, I mean,

1:15:48.960 --> 1:15:53.479
<v Speaker 6>he's bigger than life, okay, and it's time to tour

1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:57.000
<v Speaker 6>and he loses his voice for eight months, do you

1:15:57.120 --> 1:15:59.800
<v Speaker 6>hear me? He can't talk. Nothing comes out of this

1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:02.880
<v Speaker 6>out for eight months, and the record starting to climb

1:16:03.160 --> 1:16:07.519
<v Speaker 6>and climb, and we're going to vocal coaches, psychiatrist, We're

1:16:07.560 --> 1:16:10.040
<v Speaker 6>going to try and figure out what's the matter with

1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:12.400
<v Speaker 6>his voice and we couldn't get his voice back.

1:16:13.080 --> 1:16:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Was he psychosomatic? Do you think?

1:16:15.200 --> 1:16:16.840
<v Speaker 6>Oh? I think we all are.

1:16:18.439 --> 1:16:18.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:21.599
<v Speaker 2>I was about to say eight months and losing your voice.

1:16:21.640 --> 1:16:23.360
<v Speaker 2>That's that's fear right there.

1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:27.720
<v Speaker 6>That's fear. Fear of success, fear of everything. But I

1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:29.920
<v Speaker 6>mean it came out in a way where it wasn't

1:16:30.080 --> 1:16:33.560
<v Speaker 6>nerves or not sleep. It came out where he he

1:16:33.640 --> 1:16:38.160
<v Speaker 6>couldn't sing. I'm telling you he couldn't sing. And so

1:16:38.760 --> 1:16:41.240
<v Speaker 6>once again being at the right place and timing and everything,

1:16:41.520 --> 1:16:44.160
<v Speaker 6>So what's happening is that there's who's meat up? Where

1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:46.240
<v Speaker 6>is he? Why doesn't he perform? He can't even do

1:16:46.360 --> 1:16:48.240
<v Speaker 6>TV or any of that. And then when he got

1:16:48.280 --> 1:16:50.200
<v Speaker 6>his voice back, man, we went to England where the

1:16:50.240 --> 1:16:52.360
<v Speaker 6>record was number one for twenty weeks in a row,

1:16:52.920 --> 1:16:56.519
<v Speaker 6>you know, And that's how he burst onto the scene.

1:16:57.800 --> 1:16:59.920
<v Speaker 2>So he had an eight month sort of build up thing,

1:17:00.280 --> 1:17:02.480
<v Speaker 2>six or eight months, remember.

1:17:03.720 --> 1:17:11.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, no, but David Sonnenberg was the original manager. But

1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:14.479
<v Speaker 6>you know, he had successful acts and didn't want to

1:17:14.520 --> 1:17:18.639
<v Speaker 6>deal with somebody. You know, it all happened kind of suddenly,

1:17:19.200 --> 1:17:21.960
<v Speaker 6>and of course he lost his voice, and then you know,

1:17:22.080 --> 1:17:24.760
<v Speaker 6>I met him and I said, Oh my gosh, you know,

1:17:25.479 --> 1:17:27.640
<v Speaker 6>I know his voice is going to come back, right,

1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:31.080
<v Speaker 6>and that's how that that's how come he came onto

1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:35.360
<v Speaker 6>the scene. But I had the experience of watching Freddie Mercury,

1:17:35.760 --> 1:17:39.560
<v Speaker 6>of watching Who, of watching that Zeppelin, you know, I

1:17:39.640 --> 1:17:43.080
<v Speaker 6>mean my time at that time, my favorite song for

1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:46.000
<v Speaker 6>a moment was Stairway to Heaven. Of course, now it's

1:17:46.080 --> 1:17:49.280
<v Speaker 6>become my theme shot being there's a new meaning to

1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:50.800
<v Speaker 6>stare Away to Heaven for me.

1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Now you're here now, so wait were you? Were you

1:17:57.000 --> 1:17:57.719
<v Speaker 1>his manager?

1:17:58.040 --> 1:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Also between both album because I know that after a

1:18:01.760 --> 1:18:04.280
<v Speaker 2>bat out of the hell he took an eight to

1:18:05.240 --> 1:18:07.520
<v Speaker 2>well break, I believe before.

1:18:07.960 --> 1:18:12.120
<v Speaker 6>We went to Tom down at Criteria. Do you remember

1:18:12.160 --> 1:18:17.400
<v Speaker 6>Criteria in you know, Tom Dowd was like the Wall

1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:21.280
<v Speaker 6>of Sound with Phil Spector, Tom Dowd and Muscle Shoals.

1:18:21.280 --> 1:18:23.120
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if you have ever seen the Netflix

1:18:23.800 --> 1:18:27.720
<v Speaker 6>special on that white rhythm section that was doing a

1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:32.120
<v Speaker 6>great black artists. You know they were realies, but man,

1:18:32.439 --> 1:18:36.120
<v Speaker 6>you know that sound was all Muscle Shoals. It's a

1:18:36.240 --> 1:18:40.240
<v Speaker 6>great uh Netflix uh special, Because I mean I looked

1:18:40.280 --> 1:18:43.479
<v Speaker 6>at it, I couldn't believe it, you know, and people

1:18:43.520 --> 1:18:47.080
<v Speaker 6>were flying in you know, uh, you know James Brown,

1:18:47.120 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 6>I mean some ridiculous names were flying to muscle shows,

1:18:50.439 --> 1:18:54.040
<v Speaker 6>muscle shows for that studio and that sound, and so

1:18:55.439 --> 1:18:58.720
<v Speaker 6>you know Tom down. And then what happens is that,

1:18:59.160 --> 1:19:02.040
<v Speaker 6>you know, everything is recoupable. And that's a word that

1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:03.679
<v Speaker 6>you probably know of quest.

1:19:04.240 --> 1:19:08.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean I barely know it. Yes, I know the

1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:09.320
<v Speaker 1>hard way.

1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:12.120
<v Speaker 6>You know, do the video. You want to spend one

1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:16.560
<v Speaker 6>hundred Brad, here's one hundred grad. But it's recoupable. And

1:19:16.720 --> 1:19:19.679
<v Speaker 6>before you knew it, you know, he was in debt

1:19:19.880 --> 1:19:23.640
<v Speaker 6>to Colombia to Epic in such yet there was no

1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:25.840
<v Speaker 6>way if he had another bat out of hell, that

1:19:25.960 --> 1:19:29.240
<v Speaker 6>he could pay them back. And so you know, there

1:19:29.360 --> 1:19:31.720
<v Speaker 6>was a way to get out of that debt and

1:19:31.840 --> 1:19:35.160
<v Speaker 6>that was called bankruptcy. And then your contracts became null

1:19:35.200 --> 1:19:35.599
<v Speaker 6>and void.

1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:36.240
<v Speaker 11>And so.

1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Eight years I get it, wow, really with a new deal,

1:19:42.120 --> 1:19:45.639
<v Speaker 1>but I didn't say it. So he could he could.

1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Survive for eight years without neither hit North and he

1:19:49.120 --> 1:19:52.439
<v Speaker 2>didn't care like the age of videos going by and

1:19:52.479 --> 1:19:53.120
<v Speaker 2>all those things.

1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:55.799
<v Speaker 1>And I mean, you know he came back with whatever,

1:19:56.560 --> 1:19:57.160
<v Speaker 1>I won't do that.

1:19:57.280 --> 1:20:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I forget the name of the sign came I mean

1:20:00.760 --> 1:20:04.080
<v Speaker 2>he came back, but still that that's a hell of

1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:06.520
<v Speaker 2>a risk just for bankruptcy.

1:20:07.160 --> 1:20:10.759
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know, like Billy Preston had A and M records,

1:20:10.840 --> 1:20:14.080
<v Speaker 6>we had Aristo records England that couldn't wait to sign them.

1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:16.639
<v Speaker 6>And I don't think it was eight years. I think

1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:20.080
<v Speaker 6>it was more like five or six years in between records.

1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:23.040
<v Speaker 6>But what brought him back a second time was that

1:20:23.160 --> 1:20:26.880
<v Speaker 6>he went back to Jim Steinman. Bonnie Tyler had which

1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:31.760
<v Speaker 6>was meat Love's song, but that was really for meat Love,

1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:36.800
<v Speaker 6>but they were few likes and Chocolate everybody else like

1:20:36.920 --> 1:20:41.240
<v Speaker 6>the Beatles, like Foreigner, like Journey. I mean, you know,

1:20:41.320 --> 1:20:44.800
<v Speaker 6>it's just going on and on, and so Steman gave

1:20:44.840 --> 1:20:46.840
<v Speaker 6>it to Bonnie Tyler. She did a hell of the job.

1:20:47.600 --> 1:20:51.000
<v Speaker 1>You're so right, dude, totally Clips of the Heart is

1:20:51.200 --> 1:20:52.760
<v Speaker 1>such a total song.

1:20:54.400 --> 1:20:54.960
<v Speaker 3>More hero.

1:20:59.160 --> 1:21:00.960
<v Speaker 6>Hero ship.

1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>That stop after twelve seconds by right, right, Okay, I

1:21:12.120 --> 1:21:16.280
<v Speaker 2>do all right. My last two main questions. I know

1:21:16.439 --> 1:21:18.920
<v Speaker 2>that Franklin as I was also one of your clients.

1:21:18.960 --> 1:21:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Hele were there any other clients clients that you have

1:21:21.479 --> 1:21:23.960
<v Speaker 2>that we don't know about or for a brief time.

1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:28.000
<v Speaker 6>I had I was spending so much time in England,

1:21:28.040 --> 1:21:32.560
<v Speaker 6>I made friends with other masters. I can't think of

1:21:32.640 --> 1:21:37.200
<v Speaker 6>his name, but Whim was one of his groups. Curiosity

1:21:37.360 --> 1:21:40.920
<v Speaker 6>Killed the Cat, the Stranglers. If you look at the Stranglers,

1:21:41.040 --> 1:21:45.080
<v Speaker 6>they were like, you know, like some of those uh

1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:51.320
<v Speaker 6>punk rock fans that had a bit of success, but

1:21:52.080 --> 1:21:55.280
<v Speaker 6>you the guy didn't want to travel back to New

1:21:55.360 --> 1:21:58.760
<v Speaker 6>York or the United States. So I would handle not that,

1:21:58.920 --> 1:22:02.120
<v Speaker 6>you know, I only commissioned the touring in America. So

1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:06.120
<v Speaker 6>I was involved with a lot of English bands and

1:22:06.240 --> 1:22:09.360
<v Speaker 6>I had, you know a lot of success as being

1:22:09.400 --> 1:22:13.040
<v Speaker 6>a reasonable guy to deal and represent the managers in

1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:15.360
<v Speaker 6>England that didn't want to be bothered coming over.

1:22:16.600 --> 1:22:18.880
<v Speaker 2>So when their actually come to the States, you sort

1:22:18.920 --> 1:22:22.520
<v Speaker 2>of tag team and sort of co manage.

1:22:22.640 --> 1:22:27.040
<v Speaker 6>The agents to the whole nine yards. I was able

1:22:27.120 --> 1:22:33.120
<v Speaker 6>to handle their their American tours. Yes, at what point, well.

1:22:33.000 --> 1:22:35.760
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned when at all did you have to deal

1:22:35.800 --> 1:22:39.320
<v Speaker 2>with them when when those albums were first coming out

1:22:39.439 --> 1:22:42.240
<v Speaker 2>or make It Big or the Fantastic record the beginning.

1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:46.960
<v Speaker 6>No, I was. I was very good friends with their manager,

1:22:48.760 --> 1:22:51.400
<v Speaker 6>and so it brought me into the you know, into

1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:56.760
<v Speaker 6>the chip boardens of England, you know, and so one

1:22:56.840 --> 1:22:59.920
<v Speaker 6>relationship led to another relationship. You can remember. It was

1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:04.680
<v Speaker 6>my life, you know, and so you know I was

1:23:04.880 --> 1:23:09.360
<v Speaker 6>very comfortable in England in the music industry. You know,

1:23:10.320 --> 1:23:13.480
<v Speaker 6>of course, traveling with uh you know, with the Stones,

1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:17.360
<v Speaker 6>and you know I was I was part of that.

1:23:18.080 --> 1:23:21.760
<v Speaker 6>You know that Clive Davis going back to Columbia. Uh,

1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.040
<v Speaker 6>you know this is before Tommy Mottola.

1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:25.640
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:31.160
<v Speaker 6>You know, I Walter was a very good friend. In fact,

1:23:31.560 --> 1:23:33.800
<v Speaker 6>you brought up a name, Howling at the Moon. Did

1:23:33.840 --> 1:23:34.719
<v Speaker 6>you ever read his book?

1:23:36.160 --> 1:23:37.840
<v Speaker 2>I just got done read that was one of my

1:23:38.000 --> 1:23:41.440
<v Speaker 2>pandemic books. Yes, that's a crazy story.

1:23:41.680 --> 1:23:44.240
<v Speaker 6>It's absolutely crazy. We're not going to go there. But

1:23:44.479 --> 1:23:49.400
<v Speaker 6>trust me, I was the Moon, you know he was.

1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:53.400
<v Speaker 6>He was a great friend of mine. As crazy as

1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:55.680
<v Speaker 6>he was, he was loyal. Uh he was.

1:23:55.800 --> 1:23:56.000
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:23:56.160 --> 1:23:59.000
<v Speaker 6>I have the most respect for him. And a lot

1:23:59.040 --> 1:24:02.479
<v Speaker 6>of the English fan that I managed in this country

1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:05.040
<v Speaker 6>came through Walter. In fact, he put me up from

1:24:05.080 --> 1:24:11.360
<v Speaker 6>Curiosity Killed the Cat. Okay, so a three hit miracle

1:24:11.400 --> 1:24:13.960
<v Speaker 6>bad all three good looking kids you know that could

1:24:14.040 --> 1:24:17.320
<v Speaker 6>really sing like BTS or something like that. But you know,

1:24:18.040 --> 1:24:22.080
<v Speaker 6>forty years ago, but you read Holly Howy at the Moon.

1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I've read it.

1:24:24.040 --> 1:24:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Trust me, there is there a point where was there

1:24:28.320 --> 1:24:31.800
<v Speaker 2>ever a point in the eighties or the nineties where

1:24:31.800 --> 1:24:36.240
<v Speaker 2>you're just like, I'm lost, Like every manager sort of

1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:40.600
<v Speaker 2>has a breaking point with even with label CEOs. You

1:24:40.640 --> 1:24:43.680
<v Speaker 2>mentioned Walter yet in a coffin. You know, he's very

1:24:44.720 --> 1:24:49.519
<v Speaker 2>forthcoming with like his cocaine addiction and that sort of

1:24:49.680 --> 1:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like sort of did him under. Shep of course made

1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:59.719
<v Speaker 2>it known that, you know, having almost two cardiac arrests total.

1:24:59.800 --> 1:25:02.040
<v Speaker 2>My it slowed down and he just took on Alice

1:25:02.080 --> 1:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>and no one else was there.

1:25:04.920 --> 1:25:08.960
<v Speaker 6>Shep did one other thing. He discovered chefs, so Emerald

1:25:09.000 --> 1:25:13.240
<v Speaker 6>Lagassi before there were chefs the men, so his special

1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:16.960
<v Speaker 6>it's very special because he's he's the one that kind

1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:20.559
<v Speaker 6>of created the chefs for the Food Network. There wouldn't

1:25:20.560 --> 1:25:23.479
<v Speaker 6>have been to Gordon Ramsey, there wouldn't have been Bobby Flay,

1:25:23.760 --> 1:25:27.960
<v Speaker 6>there wouldn't have been you if it wasn't for chef.

1:25:30.240 --> 1:25:32.879
<v Speaker 2>That's how I got connected with Shep. My my friendship

1:25:32.960 --> 1:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>with him was actually in his food world. And then

1:25:37.000 --> 1:25:39.839
<v Speaker 2>you know he told me about Teddy Pintograss and everyone beforehand.

1:25:39.920 --> 1:25:42.760
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, in the food world, that's you know that

1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:45.360
<v Speaker 2>was his pivot. Did you did you wind up having

1:25:45.400 --> 1:25:48.439
<v Speaker 2>any other? Well, I know now you're you're involved in

1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:53.120
<v Speaker 2>the the the long overdue hip Hop Museum.

1:25:53.760 --> 1:25:55.200
<v Speaker 1>First of all, what can you explain?

1:25:55.320 --> 1:25:58.600
<v Speaker 2>What what the what the general plan is with the

1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Hip Hop Museum and and as far as like building

1:26:03.280 --> 1:26:04.160
<v Speaker 2>in and structuring it.

1:26:05.439 --> 1:26:09.639
<v Speaker 6>We broke round, you know, about three or four months ago.

1:26:10.160 --> 1:26:10.800
<v Speaker 6>H L.

1:26:11.680 --> 1:26:16.799
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't invited, but okay, yeah, email if.

1:26:16.680 --> 1:26:21.160
<v Speaker 6>We couldn't get your even even with the d M.

1:26:21.280 --> 1:26:23.240
<v Speaker 6>Finally we were able to communicate.

1:26:23.760 --> 1:26:28.719
<v Speaker 12>But down in the I did real snarky on Twitter

1:26:28.840 --> 1:26:31.640
<v Speaker 12>before I got an answer back, But go ahead, No,

1:26:32.920 --> 1:26:33.840
<v Speaker 12>I was working that day.

1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:37.400
<v Speaker 6>No, No, it's fine, it's fine. Look at we're together now,

1:26:37.520 --> 1:26:40.160
<v Speaker 6>that's what's important, you know what I mean. And so

1:26:41.240 --> 1:26:44.960
<v Speaker 6>we had nas, we had Slick Rick, uh, Fat Joe,

1:26:45.280 --> 1:26:46.880
<v Speaker 6>a lot of these. You know, I think Noazz is

1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:51.080
<v Speaker 6>from Queen's Fat Joe Bronx. But hip hop started in

1:26:51.200 --> 1:26:54.240
<v Speaker 6>the Bronx. I mean, there's no doubt about that, you know.

1:26:56.240 --> 1:26:59.800
<v Speaker 6>And of course we lost Biz Marquee. Uh. This we

1:27:00.920 --> 1:27:06.559
<v Speaker 6>so Rocky's dream for the last nine years, and once

1:27:06.560 --> 1:27:09.600
<v Speaker 6>again I did Strong City with Rocky Butanan, it is

1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:13.519
<v Speaker 6>his dream, it is his idea. He's the CEO of

1:27:13.680 --> 1:27:17.400
<v Speaker 6>this nonprofit. He wants to do a Hall of Fame

1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:20.920
<v Speaker 6>for hip hop artists. He wants to do the Walk

1:27:20.920 --> 1:27:24.120
<v Speaker 6>of Fame with hip hop artists. It's it was a

1:27:24.240 --> 1:27:28.120
<v Speaker 6>little hard touching on we're able to close a Microsoft deal,

1:27:28.560 --> 1:27:32.000
<v Speaker 6>but it wasn't just money. It was their technology that

1:27:32.080 --> 1:27:37.200
<v Speaker 6>would make this an AI museum, an interactive experience where

1:27:37.240 --> 1:27:40.800
<v Speaker 6>you could actually tag the subway car but it would disappear,

1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:43.080
<v Speaker 6>but you could get that selfie like the pink wall.

1:27:43.600 --> 1:27:47.120
<v Speaker 6>So you know, they have a machine that you could

1:27:47.160 --> 1:27:50.040
<v Speaker 6>tell what you you know, the kind of music that

1:27:50.160 --> 1:27:52.679
<v Speaker 6>you liked from the best and the and the present,

1:27:53.160 --> 1:27:56.760
<v Speaker 6>and it'll actually give you a playlist on Spotify automatic,

1:27:56.960 --> 1:27:59.960
<v Speaker 6>you know. And so it's it's a dream of rock.

1:28:00.080 --> 1:28:02.320
<v Speaker 6>He's just going to be a theater. There's going to

1:28:02.479 --> 1:28:05.040
<v Speaker 6>We're talk we're hoping that, you know, we've got a

1:28:05.080 --> 1:28:09.519
<v Speaker 6>commitment from the state, commitment from uh from the city.

1:28:09.840 --> 1:28:12.479
<v Speaker 6>We're up to about thirty five million. We've just got

1:28:12.560 --> 1:28:17.680
<v Speaker 6>the interior design and we're hoping that more people will

1:28:17.720 --> 1:28:22.360
<v Speaker 6>get involved. But it's off to a great start. We're

1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:28.720
<v Speaker 6>about seventy percent there and we broke ground. And uh,

1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:31.880
<v Speaker 6>there's so much more that Rocky can tell you about.

1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:35.439
<v Speaker 6>But but but everything is going in the right direction.

1:28:35.600 --> 1:28:38.000
<v Speaker 6>And I see, you know, we'll be done by twenty

1:28:38.200 --> 1:28:40.880
<v Speaker 6>twenty four. We've brought on the right people. There are

1:28:40.960 --> 1:28:46.800
<v Speaker 6>some companies that all have diversity departments. Now, yeah, right,

1:28:47.280 --> 1:28:49.760
<v Speaker 6>what about do you think Adidas or something to the

1:28:49.840 --> 1:28:53.800
<v Speaker 6>rap community? Do you think Nike owns oh something to

1:28:53.920 --> 1:28:59.240
<v Speaker 6>the raps? We can go on, you know, pull up

1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:03.520
<v Speaker 6>the quote. I mean, how long have they taken advantage

1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:05.760
<v Speaker 6>of a pivop and not given back?

1:29:06.439 --> 1:29:08.240
<v Speaker 3>Is that why you decided to be on the on

1:29:08.320 --> 1:29:08.879
<v Speaker 3>the committee?

1:29:09.160 --> 1:29:11.800
<v Speaker 6>Oh no, but I mean Rocky's my friend for thirty year.

1:29:12.320 --> 1:29:14.600
<v Speaker 6>But I mean, come on, man, I mean you know,

1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:17.920
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you know sometimes you know, Rocky needed help

1:29:18.000 --> 1:29:22.160
<v Speaker 6>with Song City. I went to Universal and this is

1:29:22.479 --> 1:29:25.719
<v Speaker 6>you know, this to me. If I can help Rocky, Wow,

1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:27.800
<v Speaker 6>what a way to go out, you know, I mean,

1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:32.080
<v Speaker 6>so keeping me really active. You know, we're trying to

1:29:32.160 --> 1:29:36.439
<v Speaker 6>put on Orchard Beach. Uh and welcome back to New York.

1:29:36.439 --> 1:29:38.840
<v Speaker 6>When they're doing the Great Lawn, Clive Davis is doing

1:29:39.720 --> 1:29:44.320
<v Speaker 6>the Great Lawn, you know, with Springing and Paul Simon,

1:29:44.720 --> 1:29:47.519
<v Speaker 6>Nas is on that show earth Winded Fire, Jennifer Hudson.

1:29:47.920 --> 1:29:51.599
<v Speaker 6>But you know, we just got George Clinton for Forest

1:29:51.720 --> 1:29:56.120
<v Speaker 6>Hills and the Folkadelics. It's his fiftieth anniversary or something.

1:29:56.560 --> 1:29:59.000
<v Speaker 6>But we're got a lot of guests, you know, to

1:29:59.120 --> 1:30:03.879
<v Speaker 6>participate in that show. We've got the Peer in in Brooklyn.

1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:08.400
<v Speaker 6>I don't have the list, uh, but you know, Next

1:30:08.479 --> 1:30:11.560
<v Speaker 6>Friday is the deadline for everything. And then we have

1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:16.759
<v Speaker 6>the Hip Hop Museum is doing Staten Island, Brooklyn Queens

1:30:16.840 --> 1:30:22.280
<v Speaker 6>and the Bronx and they're gonna give us three minutes

1:30:22.760 --> 1:30:25.720
<v Speaker 6>on the big screen for CNN is going to broadcast

1:30:25.920 --> 1:30:28.920
<v Speaker 6>live from the Great Lawn, So when Nas comes on,

1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:33.080
<v Speaker 6>they're gonna give us two and a half minutes of

1:30:33.240 --> 1:30:35.599
<v Speaker 6>the history of hip hop, which we're putting together now.

1:30:37.000 --> 1:30:39.680
<v Speaker 6>So that would be kind of cool for everybody to

1:30:39.800 --> 1:30:43.200
<v Speaker 6>see where hip hop, you know, originated.

1:30:44.040 --> 1:30:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Twenty four We used to see completion on this.

1:30:46.760 --> 1:30:49.400
<v Speaker 6>Yes, absolutely, all right, I'm.

1:30:49.240 --> 1:30:51.479
<v Speaker 1>Gonna get my contribution on so I can earn the

1:30:51.800 --> 1:30:53.280
<v Speaker 1>quest level wing like.

1:30:56.720 --> 1:31:00.720
<v Speaker 6>To be involved. We don't want your money, we want

1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:02.960
<v Speaker 6>you I feel you, feel you.

1:31:03.600 --> 1:31:04.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, because I just want to know.

1:31:04.640 --> 1:31:06.400
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so you know, as you know, one of the

1:31:06.439 --> 1:31:08.559
<v Speaker 4>reasons that we brought you to the show is because

1:31:08.600 --> 1:31:10.840
<v Speaker 4>we were talking to your daughter Tracy, and I have

1:31:11.080 --> 1:31:14.640
<v Speaker 4>forgot yes, and I have to ask you because if

1:31:14.640 --> 1:31:17.960
<v Speaker 4>anybody follows you on Instagram, you're the ultimate grandpa. You

1:31:18.080 --> 1:31:21.519
<v Speaker 4>the ultimate girl dad with Ronda and Chutney and Tracy

1:31:21.600 --> 1:31:24.519
<v Speaker 4>of course, but I want to know for you and Diana,

1:31:24.560 --> 1:31:26.880
<v Speaker 4>because Tracy talks about her upbringing and how she never

1:31:27.000 --> 1:31:29.719
<v Speaker 4>felt at a loss like her mom was a superstar,

1:31:29.800 --> 1:31:32.400
<v Speaker 4>her dad is a superstar manager. But she never felt

1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:34.160
<v Speaker 4>like she didn't see her parents. She never felt like

1:31:34.240 --> 1:31:37.080
<v Speaker 4>she wasn't raised in a wholesome environment. I wanted to know, like,

1:31:37.160 --> 1:31:40.320
<v Speaker 4>what conscious choices did you two make as parents, because

1:31:40.320 --> 1:31:42.280
<v Speaker 4>you're torn. You done told us for an hour and

1:31:42.320 --> 1:31:44.160
<v Speaker 4>a half, all these places that you've been, but you

1:31:44.320 --> 1:31:46.000
<v Speaker 4>still to her are the best daddy ever.

1:31:46.400 --> 1:31:49.559
<v Speaker 3>How did you make a conscious decision to make sure

1:31:49.600 --> 1:31:50.080
<v Speaker 3>that happened.

1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:57.320
<v Speaker 6>We both saw our weaknesses. I was lucky enough to

1:31:57.400 --> 1:32:01.240
<v Speaker 6>go to college. You know. Diana stand started six singing

1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:04.920
<v Speaker 6>when she was sixteen. We never saw other people. We

1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:08.320
<v Speaker 6>never saw color in our house. We saw other people.

1:32:08.439 --> 1:32:11.240
<v Speaker 6>We were able to talk about it. You know, that's

1:32:11.320 --> 1:32:14.919
<v Speaker 6>fifty three years ago. We just celebrated. I didn't celebrate.

1:32:15.040 --> 1:32:19.360
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I just this past January. I married her

1:32:19.479 --> 1:32:22.360
<v Speaker 6>fifty years ago. You know, I know her for fifty

1:32:22.520 --> 1:32:27.320
<v Speaker 6>three years. We were conscious of the way they were

1:32:27.360 --> 1:32:30.680
<v Speaker 6>going to raise because they were mixed. You know, we

1:32:30.800 --> 1:32:34.760
<v Speaker 6>were conscious that we had to educate them. It was

1:32:34.840 --> 1:32:37.599
<v Speaker 6>a lot different back then. I think maybe two years

1:32:37.640 --> 1:32:40.240
<v Speaker 6>before I got married. It was illegal. You know, there

1:32:40.360 --> 1:32:43.280
<v Speaker 6>was just Sammy Davis and I. You know that we're

1:32:43.360 --> 1:32:47.240
<v Speaker 6>out there that publicized that. There's been movies, some great movies,

1:32:47.640 --> 1:32:51.040
<v Speaker 6>you know, of illegally. But you know, you know, I

1:32:51.160 --> 1:32:53.920
<v Speaker 6>think when did I get married? Sixty nine or something

1:32:54.000 --> 1:32:57.799
<v Speaker 6>like that. I can't even do the numbers. So Diana

1:32:57.880 --> 1:33:01.639
<v Speaker 6>took the children everywhere I spent, you know, even when

1:33:01.640 --> 1:33:04.800
<v Speaker 6>we were divorced, I had them every weekend. You know,

1:33:06.240 --> 1:33:08.880
<v Speaker 6>we were on top of it. You know, I can

1:33:08.920 --> 1:33:11.519
<v Speaker 6>remember one of putting Tracy out of the car, you know,

1:33:11.840 --> 1:33:15.360
<v Speaker 6>because she she has my personality.

1:33:15.600 --> 1:33:16.240
<v Speaker 3>Yes it does.

1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:21.599
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I was on ninety five. I'll never forget this story. Well,

1:33:21.640 --> 1:33:23.400
<v Speaker 6>one time on the way to school, she was telling

1:33:23.439 --> 1:33:25.200
<v Speaker 6>me which way to go and she had her foot

1:33:25.280 --> 1:33:26.560
<v Speaker 6>up on the seat. I took a shoe and I

1:33:26.600 --> 1:33:31.479
<v Speaker 6>threw it out on Park Avenue Tracy store. She bought

1:33:31.560 --> 1:33:34.000
<v Speaker 6>some pants. She put it twenty five. She needs the

1:33:34.080 --> 1:33:36.040
<v Speaker 6>pants dead. Can you pick them up? Can you pick

1:33:36.080 --> 1:33:39.920
<v Speaker 6>them up? A Parisuaye pants? The guy said there was seventh.

1:33:39.960 --> 1:33:43.759
<v Speaker 6>Now you gotta remember, you know, she's sixteen or fourteen.

1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:47.040
<v Speaker 6>And I pick up a par of Suey pants. There's

1:33:47.080 --> 1:33:49.880
<v Speaker 6>about seven hundred dollars and all she just puts it.

1:33:50.160 --> 1:33:53.040
<v Speaker 6>She needed them, she had them shortened. And she's always

1:33:53.080 --> 1:33:56.960
<v Speaker 6>been into clothes. You know, we've always had this. We

1:33:57.080 --> 1:34:00.920
<v Speaker 6>are so much alike in so many ways. Is you know,

1:34:01.120 --> 1:34:04.559
<v Speaker 6>Ronda and I have a special bond, and Chudney's the baby,

1:34:04.840 --> 1:34:07.519
<v Speaker 6>and I don't know, I don't see I still see

1:34:07.560 --> 1:34:10.439
<v Speaker 6>them as young girls. You know. We just had the

1:34:11.120 --> 1:34:17.000
<v Speaker 6>opportunity of the three grandchildren and my three daughters at

1:34:17.120 --> 1:34:22.240
<v Speaker 6>Rober's apartment for a great get together and pictures. You

1:34:22.360 --> 1:34:26.720
<v Speaker 6>know that we can compare when Tracy and Ronda and

1:34:27.080 --> 1:34:32.880
<v Speaker 6>before Chudny was even born. It's just being in touch now.

1:34:32.960 --> 1:34:38.360
<v Speaker 6>I text and I do these robots with my grandson, and.

1:34:38.920 --> 1:34:40.240
<v Speaker 3>It's a star all day.

1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:44.120
<v Speaker 6>You know, I'm making what is the name hero, I

1:34:44.240 --> 1:34:47.600
<v Speaker 6>make my own robots with their own costumes, and I

1:34:47.680 --> 1:34:51.360
<v Speaker 6>try it out and do them. So it's staying involved.

1:34:51.439 --> 1:34:55.639
<v Speaker 6>It's being aware. It's just it's it's a strange time

1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:59.360
<v Speaker 6>in this country, and so you know, some things you

1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:01.400
<v Speaker 6>want to share, some things you don't want to share

1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:06.880
<v Speaker 6>with children. It's just being aware and you know, everybody's

1:35:06.920 --> 1:35:09.960
<v Speaker 6>got to get together. It's all about love. I mean,

1:35:10.040 --> 1:35:10.720
<v Speaker 6>it really is.

1:35:11.560 --> 1:35:14.840
<v Speaker 1>There you go, you know there it is.

1:35:15.720 --> 1:35:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know I was told not to call you

1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:23.479
<v Speaker 2>mister Ellis. No, no, you're you're my pal, Bob. Bob,

1:35:23.840 --> 1:35:28.280
<v Speaker 2>thank you for coming on the show once again. Ladies

1:35:28.280 --> 1:35:31.880
<v Speaker 2>and gentlemen, give it up for Bob Ellis, uh On

1:35:32.080 --> 1:35:38.240
<v Speaker 2>behalf of Sugar, Steve and Fon, Tigelow and unpaid Bill

1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:42.560
<v Speaker 2>and like, yeah, uh this is Quest Love another educational

1:35:43.240 --> 1:35:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Quest Love Supreme.

1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:47.040
<v Speaker 1>We we will see you. Oh wait did I say something.

1:35:47.720 --> 1:35:49.719
<v Speaker 3>No, I was I was agreeing with you want education.

1:35:49.840 --> 1:35:52.960
<v Speaker 13>I'm sorry my bad thought. I was like, wait, this

1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:59.000
<v Speaker 13>is Quest Love Supreme and we will see you on

1:35:59.040 --> 1:36:00.920
<v Speaker 13>the next go round. All right, thank you very much.

1:36:02.880 --> 1:36:03.000
<v Speaker 6>Yo.

1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:03.439
<v Speaker 1>What's up?

1:36:03.479 --> 1:36:05.760
<v Speaker 11>This is Fante Make sure you keep up with us

1:36:05.800 --> 1:36:08.479
<v Speaker 11>on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you

1:36:08.560 --> 1:36:10.320
<v Speaker 11>think and who should be next to sit down with us.

1:36:10.640 --> 1:36:13.719
<v Speaker 1>Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all Right Peace.

1:36:22.360 --> 1:36:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Bost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

1:36:28.120 --> 1:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1:36:32.960 --> 1:36:34.639
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