Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Uh, Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. I can already tell this is gonna be.
Speaker 2: A classic episode already, just based on the pre interviews.
Speaker 2: I usually try to discourage any small talk because I
Speaker 2: always know that something magical is gonna happen and we
Speaker 2: don't have it.
Speaker 1: But it's already happened on folks. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you can't continue.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supremest Love. We
Speaker 2: are here with Team Supreme while yeah, you are back
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles or you're in Philly right now.
Speaker 3: I'm back in Los Angeles where you damn?
Speaker 4: Okay, No, I was just saying, it's been a long
Speaker 4: I've been that four states and three days of line.
Speaker 1: Oh you use it on award tour with Muhammed your man.
Speaker 3: Okay, I.
Speaker 1: See all right. Well it's good. Glad, you bet glad
Speaker 1: to see the familiar settings on paid bill. You do
Speaker 1: it very one.
Speaker 5: Cool, rocking the suburbs, rocking the suburbs. I can't stop
Speaker 5: doing laundry. I'm fantastic. Everything's good. Did you receive your
Speaker 5: Tony yet or is it still waiting? No September Tony
Speaker 5: September and then you and me go to the Oscars.
Speaker 1: We're going to Oscars. Son, Wait, what you got? What
Speaker 1: you got going on? What you got going on?
Speaker 6: That?
Speaker 1: Damn forgot? All right? All right, I forgot you seats
Speaker 1: right next to each other. It'll be great, all right,
Speaker 1: fan Tickeolo. How's it going.
Speaker 7: I'm good, bro, I'm down thirty yes, okay, hey, let's
Speaker 7: hear you. I'm keeping it going, man. I'm taking this
Speaker 7: week right now from what's tonight's dinner. I'm drinking leak, fennol, zucchini,
Speaker 7: tomato and lemon. Y. I gotta drink my salads, y'all.
Speaker 7: I gotta drink my salads.
Speaker 1: Because I didn't eat mine.
Speaker 2: I got so you can't do like tass and then
Speaker 2: like that that I could, But then I'll be lying,
Speaker 2: Grace be like you eat your slish and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: sure I did.
Speaker 3: And then you know it's faster to just take it
Speaker 3: down I.
Speaker 2: Rather just drink it, because you know, I'm I'm that guy.
Speaker 2: It's easier for me to drink myself. Man, get it,
Speaker 2: get it, how you live, bro?
Speaker 6: I love it.
Speaker 2: We should we should acknowledge that in the five year
Speaker 2: history of the show. Sugar Steve is sitting this one
Speaker 2: out for the first time ever. Sugar Steve's personal friend
Speaker 2: Paul Simon has offered Paul Simon and his wife Edie
Speaker 2: Brucel have offered Steve his Yankee tickets, and so you know,
Speaker 2: that's that's where Steve is right now.
Speaker 3: Amazing sentence.
Speaker 5: I feel like Steve should have been like, hell, no,
Speaker 5: I got a show to do. I'm not going with
Speaker 5: Paul Simon to the Yankees.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I know, man, but you know this is once in
Speaker 1: a lifetime. You know, he lives with baseball.
Speaker 2: So I will start by saying those that are very
Speaker 2: familiar with podcast know my tendency to ramble on about
Speaker 2: a lot of things, especially all things Soul Trained. I'm
Speaker 2: extreme obsession with it, every aspect of the show, not
Speaker 2: just being a hippus trip in America, but actually being
Speaker 2: a you know, the science behind how the show works.
Speaker 2: And I also learned about the business of how relationships
Speaker 2: are crucial to making a project work. For instance, you know,
Speaker 2: the first two seasons of Soul Trained, Don Cornelius had
Speaker 2: sort of leaned on all his resources from Chicago to
Speaker 2: help get the show off. The Road, so you'd see
Speaker 2: like a lot of Chicago heavy Curtis lou Verrawl's Gene Chandler,
Speaker 2: Jackie Wilson, all Chicago artists that you know, and nearby Indiana, Ohio.
Speaker 2: So once the show got really hitting by season three
Speaker 2: and season four, I started to notice several themes like
Speaker 2: the Philly International shows and the Motown shows and all
Speaker 2: the Barry White acts. So all that's saying, even with
Speaker 2: my personal entry into the music business, you know, sometimes
Speaker 2: as a new act, you have to have someone vouch
Speaker 2: for you and strong arm and muscle you into situations.
Speaker 2: For instance, for my situation, my agent Carol Lewis, world
Speaker 2: famous Carol Lewis from Paid and Fool Caro Lewis, you know,
Speaker 2: before a promoter can even think of getting the Hard
Speaker 2: Not Life tour or the Doctor dre Snoop up and
Speaker 2: Smoke join, you know, she would force promoters to take
Speaker 2: like seven high paying roots gigs just to even have
Speaker 2: a conversation about having a jay Z show whatever.
Speaker 1: So that said, I was always curious to know.
Speaker 2: How an unknown Rufus and Shaka Khan became like majestic
Speaker 2: almost slightly overnight, like two or three years whatever. So
Speaker 2: I would actually look up the histories of the unknown
Speaker 2: artists that were coming on Soul Train and realized that
Speaker 2: most of them had a name in common. And that name,
Speaker 2: of course, was the world famous Bob Ellis, who at
Speaker 2: the time, uh you know, in addition to uh managing
Speaker 2: his then wife Diana Ross, also with Billy Preston, comedian
Speaker 2: Franklin Azai, I believe, but even like with Ron Wood,
Speaker 2: Ron Wood being on soul Train with Billy Preston, that
Speaker 2: was like how that happened? Meet Loaf status quo for
Speaker 2: all you J dillaheads, many status quot samples on his mixtapes.
Speaker 2: Our guest today has pretty much, you know ushered in
Speaker 2: a very important era for a lot of acts in
Speaker 2: the seventies that we've grown up listening to and not
Speaker 2: to mention sprogeny. One of our favorite people on earth,
Speaker 2: Tracy Ellis Ross. You know her father. We are very
Speaker 2: very honored to have on our show today. All Right,
Speaker 2: shall I name it with your proper name or how
Speaker 2: I've known you as just Bob Ellis, because is just.
Speaker 6: Bob Ellis's call?
Speaker 1: Because I was like, do I call you Robert Elvis Stilberstine.
Speaker 6: Or you know I dropped sil Verristine. Uh, you know
Speaker 6: what I think of When I was an intern for
Speaker 6: a PR firm when I moved to Los Angeles. I'll
Speaker 6: tell you real quick, uh, and then we'll get into
Speaker 6: Billy and Chaka.
Speaker 1: So I was an take over you know. Wait, can
Speaker 1: I say your name first? Yeah? Please, and tell me
Speaker 1: welcome Bob ellis to question hit me all right, hit me, honor.
Speaker 6: But I don't know how fast you want to tell
Speaker 6: these stories.
Speaker 1: But the least talking I do, the better.
Speaker 6: Intern you know, at a PR firm, and I basically
Speaker 6: was delivering mail, delivering tickets, you know, to famous actors,
Speaker 6: and they said, what you know, this young kid one
Speaker 6: of you know. That's when the Beach Boys and the
Speaker 6: Beatles were making all this noise, and I'm sure you
Speaker 6: know Motown was started. And so the first client that
Speaker 6: came to this PR firm was Billy Preston and so
Speaker 6: I started to do his PR and then I went
Speaker 6: to England with him and quest I'm telling you that
Speaker 6: within eight weeks I was his manager, okay, and he
Speaker 6: couldn't get off that road. Alan Klein wouldn't release him.
Speaker 6: And James Taylor okay but we were doing I've got
Speaker 6: gold records. We get back, my sweet lord. You know
Speaker 6: I did Bangladesh with George Harrison, So I owe everything
Speaker 6: to Billy Preston. You know, I knew James Cleveland and
Speaker 6: I went to James's church. Billy was the band behind
Speaker 6: James Cleveland. I did a concert with James Cleveland in
Speaker 6: Chicago where eighteen nineteen thousand people came with tam Marines.
Speaker 1: So wait a minute, Billy Preston used to play with
Speaker 1: James Cleveland.
Speaker 6: Yeah, do I need to say anymore?
Speaker 1: Say it again?
Speaker 6: No? No? Do I need to say anymore because you're smiling? No?
Speaker 8: No, no, no?
Speaker 2: Is this all everything seems to be falling in line now? Okay,
Speaker 2: well what I kind of want to start with the beginning?
Speaker 2: Where were you born in?
Speaker 6: Long Brunch, New Jersey? Really yeah, Jersey Shore Asbrey Park Deal,
Speaker 6: Long Brunch.
Speaker 1: Okay, what do you know what your what was your
Speaker 1: first musical memory?
Speaker 6: H Bobby v Mon mirtha K.
Speaker 2: Yes, because my dad, my dad is is kind of
Speaker 2: a tri state do Wop legend. I know all those names,
Speaker 2: so you know.
Speaker 6: What was the same Frankie Crawford, Crockerie proper you know,
Speaker 6: I think Wendy was on BLS two, you know, over
Speaker 6: the years. Anyway, that's how I got started, and it's
Speaker 6: all because of Billy Preston saying what you manage me?
Speaker 6: Then I got involved with the Beatles, and then I
Speaker 6: you know, but I flew. I took a loan out
Speaker 6: and bought two plane tickets and we went to George
Speaker 6: Harrison's out Billy and I.
Speaker 1: But I went and.
Speaker 6: I got a letter, and I know if I got
Speaker 6: George Harrison to sign it, you know that Allan Klein
Speaker 6: couldn't say anything. And I had already got an okay
Speaker 6: from herb Alert and Jerry Moss over at A and M.
Speaker 6: You remember them on Librea. And so we flew to
Speaker 6: Henley on Thames where George lived. We stayed overnight, we
Speaker 6: sat in his kitchen. We explained to him the situation
Speaker 6: and they were unaware of the way things were being,
Speaker 6: you know, run over heavy road and apple and he
Speaker 6: and you know, we flew back and the next two days,
Speaker 6: you know, we've had a deal with A and M
Speaker 6: Records and came out without a space.
Speaker 2: Can I ask the question, though, since you had dealings
Speaker 2: with him, can you I've always heard sort of Albert
Speaker 2: Klein's name and throughout the years, especially with the way
Speaker 2: that sort of Paul McCartney speaks of how the ATV
Speaker 2: publishing situation went down with Michael Jackson or the lack
Speaker 2: of control that they had, like what was the the
Speaker 2: sort of the business operandi of managers back then, as in,
Speaker 2: like did the Beatles sign a particular contract on which
Speaker 2: they gave all their publishing away before they knew how
Speaker 2: valuable those songs were going to be?
Speaker 6: Or well, don't quote me on this, but I believe
Speaker 6: they were. They were signed as songwriters, you know, like
Speaker 6: a regular job that was better than working in a
Speaker 6: grocery store. So they were a songwriters. So sort of
Speaker 6: like the Brill Building or like exactly the Brill Building,
Speaker 6: you know, with Carol King and and you know, I
Speaker 6: could name them all, but I'm trying to concentrate.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 6: And uh uh And so you know, I just saw
Speaker 6: that's on Hulu, the one two three with Rick Rubin
Speaker 6: that just came out. I think, so sold of Summers
Speaker 6: on Hulu too, right or it is? Yeah, And so
Speaker 6: you know, I just noticed in the last month or
Speaker 6: so quest that the janitor used to pick up the
Speaker 6: lyrics at South of These at Southern The's as a function.
Speaker 6: You know, Paul didn't know about it. Howard Howard Stern
Speaker 6: as him. How did that guy end up with the lyrics?
Speaker 6: You know when we were songwriters, we just ripped the page,
Speaker 6: ripped the page and throw it on the floor. He
Speaker 6: happen't let it be you know or yesterday you know,
Speaker 6: and they went for a million dollars had written lyrics.
Speaker 6: So it was you know back then. Oh, Sharon Osborne's
Speaker 6: father was a big deal in England. Uh as a manager.
Speaker 6: I think he's the first one to hang somebody out
Speaker 6: the window because they weren't weren't doing the right thing
Speaker 6: with with with his acts. You know, the record label.
Speaker 6: We all have heard that story. You know, I was
Speaker 6: around with priority then did he did it? But there
Speaker 6: was always that, you know, everybody was trying to live
Speaker 6: up trust me. It was Sharon Osborne's father that did
Speaker 6: it first.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: So so like most acts you know that have been
Speaker 6: taken advantage of, you know, back then, you know, they
Speaker 6: didn't pay it. They were happy to get three percent royalty,
Speaker 6: you know, they were happy to be a songwriter. Well,
Speaker 6: these people were becoming the publishers and co songwriters, you know,
Speaker 6: and and and it was just a way of doing business.
Speaker 6: I don't want to say that it's so you know,
Speaker 6: it's the way they did business back then.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you what year?
Speaker 2: What year did that sort of strong arming mob mentality
Speaker 2: sort of stop? Like in other words, like when did
Speaker 2: the music industry become Starbucks where you couldn't mob your
Speaker 2: way with a baseball bat if you want to into
Speaker 2: a situation was like the in the mom and pop
Speaker 2: labels or or is it still happening?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 6: There was Chess Records, uh Mars Chicago, yeahago, you know,
Speaker 6: and his father, Marshall's father was a strong arm kind
Speaker 6: of guy. We had when I first signed Rufus, which
Speaker 6: was Billy Preston's band, and they found this girl in
Speaker 6: Chicago who could see, you know, and just to just
Speaker 6: to you know, lighten up the conversation, we made a
Speaker 6: record deal at a company called ABC Records. What was
Speaker 6: his name, Otis Otis Smith was the black guy at
Speaker 6: the company. Let's call it urban, but they didn't use
Speaker 6: the word urban. That was R and B. There was
Speaker 6: no rap back then, you know, And so we were
Speaker 6: in the studio I think a record plan alf of
Speaker 6: Losianga and Shaka could sing so clearly, and Stevie Wonder
Speaker 6: happened to be in the other studio and so he
Speaker 6: could hear through the walls because he was Stevie Wonder,
Speaker 6: you know, and so he had to come in and
Speaker 6: he said, tell me something good, and then she raised
Speaker 6: the note. Tell me, you know I can't sing. Obviously
Speaker 6: I played the telephone. But they were back and forth
Speaker 6: before you know it. You know, Shaka was clever at songwriting,
Speaker 6: and Steve was touching her, trying to get feeling for it,
Speaker 6: and they're going back and forth with notes. Billy used
Speaker 6: to do that with Ray Charles. We'd go to a
Speaker 6: show and in between songs, he would sing out a note.
Speaker 6: Ray could hear him in the audience, and then play
Speaker 6: that note on the piano, and then Billy would go
Speaker 6: down the piano and play another note from his voice,
Speaker 6: and then go back and forth. And he said, come
Speaker 6: on up here. You know the incredible stuff, you know.
Speaker 6: Going back then, I mean, Billy was involved with Ike Turner,
Speaker 6: Billy was involved with sly Stone. I can remember Phil
Speaker 6: Specterter not being happy with the lights so he just
Speaker 6: shot him out. I do remember, don't know I'm in
Speaker 6: this shit. It's just it's just dope. I mean, this
Speaker 6: stuff really happened, you know, Jesus separating the board from
Speaker 6: the studio. Well, they wanted to get a real drum
Speaker 6: sound in the in the where the boards, so they
Speaker 6: knocked the glass out and brought the drums into the board.
Speaker 6: I mean everything been there and done it and then again.
Speaker 6: But that's how Billy was responsible for me just getting involved,
Speaker 6: you know, from got Ronnie Wood. Then in nineteen seventy
Speaker 6: six or seventy five, after we had done all the
Speaker 6: Beatles stuff, the Stones wanted Billy and Mick Taylor just
Speaker 6: quit the Stones. He was the guitar player Brian Jones.
Speaker 6: Then they got Mick Taylor, and so when they asked
Speaker 6: me about Billy, Ronnie Wood was with Faces at the
Speaker 6: time and unhappy, and so they both were side men
Speaker 6: on the Goat's Head Soup tour in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 6: I have pictures and so, and then obviously Billy wanted
Speaker 6: his own career, but we still the Beatles. Billy was
Speaker 6: playing for everybody. That's how if it wasn't for him,
Speaker 6: I wouldn't have met anybody.
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, you're jumping everywhere. We're going to get to
Speaker 2: all that. We're going to go through all that. What
Speaker 2: I want to do is, well, one, what were you
Speaker 2: doing right before you managed Billy Preston?
Speaker 1: What do you think it was about you that asked
Speaker 1: you to be his manager?
Speaker 2: Like in terms of was it your organizational skills or
Speaker 2: like did you pursue him?
Speaker 1: Did he pursue you?
Speaker 6: It started with pr But let me even go back.
Speaker 6: I was I was a gifted athlete. I played football, basketball,
Speaker 6: and baseball.
Speaker 1: You play football.
Speaker 6: I was an end. I went on to West Virginia
Speaker 6: University and played on.
Speaker 1: A scholarship defensive in or tight end.
Speaker 6: At that time. It was a tight end end guys,
Speaker 6: you know. And so I had all these teammates growing
Speaker 6: up from the little league to the Babe Ruth. I
Speaker 6: didn't come from you know, Blonge Branches, a diverse community,
Speaker 6: and so you know, I was comfortable with everybody. It
Speaker 6: didn't you know, I didn't look at somebody, you know,
Speaker 6: he was, you know, my teammate. And so to my comfortable,
Speaker 6: you know, my my my being you know, was was teammates.
Speaker 6: You know, sports was my the only thing in my
Speaker 6: life until I got hurt plant in college. So maybe
Speaker 6: there was a comfortable zone that Billy and I had.
Speaker 6: But I have that kind of personality, you know that
Speaker 6: you know, you either like me or you don't. You know,
Speaker 6: it's that simple.
Speaker 4: You know, I.
Speaker 6: Throw a lot of emotion into whatever I do. I
Speaker 6: don't know how to do anything one hundred percent. I
Speaker 6: have to do it one hundred and twenty percent if
Speaker 6: at sixty or seventy, I don't even want to be involved, man,
Speaker 6: I don't want to. I just delive it, breathe it,
Speaker 6: and do it. And I kind of got that way
Speaker 6: with Billy. You know, I saw how people were taking
Speaker 6: advantage of them. I saw how the Stones were just
Speaker 6: paying them as a sideman.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: Yes, they would give him a gold record and so
Speaker 6: the you know, I met you know, Nick and George
Speaker 6: and Paul and Ringo, and you know, he'd sit there.
Speaker 6: They didn't give him music. He just played from a feeling.
Speaker 6: He could read music, you know, and so we just
Speaker 6: hit it off, and Uh, I made him a publishing deal.
Speaker 6: I made him a record deal, and then you know,
Speaker 6: then his band was Bobby Watson and Andre uh Andre Fisher,
Speaker 6: Watson and Tony Maiden.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Was this was this before George and Lewis Johnson, the
Speaker 2: brothers Johnson came into play or were they were the
Speaker 2: Rufous guys with him before the brothers Johnson guys were there.
Speaker 6: We only had one Johnson and that was the first.
Speaker 6: Then he you know, then we were getting touring opportunities
Speaker 6: and Johnson brothers were talented, so they went on their own.
Speaker 6: So he replaced them with Tony and Bobby, Tony Watson
Speaker 6: and Bob Okay. So that's how it came to be.
Speaker 6: That was Rufous Okay. His rhythm section was Rufus and
Speaker 6: then Okay jukka and so in the beginning, if you
Speaker 6: look at the records, it was just Rufus, you know,
Speaker 6: and then like I don't want to make comparisons, but
Speaker 6: the Supremes and then they you know, to keep everybody happy.
Speaker 6: It was Diana Ross and the Cyprians right supremes when
Speaker 6: she still was a supreme.
Speaker 2: Right, I see when we called Preston the fifth beetle,
Speaker 2: was there actual? I mean, of course we know they
Speaker 2: imploded in seventy seventy one seventy, but was there actual
Speaker 2: serious talk about literally making him a fifth Beetle or
Speaker 2: did that fifth Beatle talk sort of happen after the fact,
Speaker 2: like after they broke up.
Speaker 6: No, it was all part of Billy Preston's magic. He
Speaker 6: even in England he was known as he was the
Speaker 6: only one that was around them that wasn't a Beatle
Speaker 6: and so it was his ability to play and not
Speaker 6: have to hear a note. But add to their music,
Speaker 6: George and Billy were the closest George Harrison and you
Speaker 6: know there was that myth in you know, there was
Speaker 6: a music Express I can't remember, but there were so
Speaker 6: many you know, there were so many magazines in England
Speaker 6: that were music oriented because of what was happening, you
Speaker 6: know with Pink Floyd, you know, Queen led Zeppelin. You know,
Speaker 6: there was just what he was into it. You know,
Speaker 6: the boy bands came, you know, and then it just
Speaker 6: morphed into something different. It's kind of like like clothing
Speaker 6: with you know. Now I see that Pandora's got the
Speaker 6: new station a Studio fifty four. You know, they're bringing
Speaker 6: back disco and I'm not man, I remember there were
Speaker 6: burning disco records, you know in the stadium you know,
Speaker 6: because everybody had had it. I don't even remember what
Speaker 6: stadium it was. Okay, I'll let you ask the questions.
Speaker 6: I get too excited, Yeah, because I still want to know.
Speaker 4: I'm still tripping on the fact that it might have
Speaker 4: been a black beatle at some point. Is that what
Speaker 4: y'all was saying, like that would have been? Was that
Speaker 4: really a conversation?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean he basically Billy Preston came to prominence even
Speaker 2: before as a solo artist because he was he was
Speaker 2: there for their very last show.
Speaker 1: Were you there on that Rooftop show?
Speaker 9: I was not there at the Rooftop Show. I was
Speaker 9: there for the Let It Be Sessions though, correct? Yes,
Speaker 9: Can you describe what those last days were like?
Speaker 2: Was their tension in the air, like, how how especially
Speaker 2: with Phil Spector as a producer, like what was the
Speaker 2: just the general let It Be sessions like, especially with
Speaker 2: Preston's involvement with it.
Speaker 6: You know, there was no you know, everybody had their quirks, everybody,
Speaker 6: you know, but the one thing in common was music.
Speaker 6: You know, nobody told anybody what to play. It was
Speaker 6: all done by Felix Crush you you know what I'm
Speaker 6: you know, kind of leading when you're writing a song,
Speaker 6: you know the trailer or Paul McCartney, is you know
Speaker 6: the road? He says, pass me the Salt and Pepper.
Speaker 6: I'm sure you've seen it. And Paul says, sergeant Pepper's
Speaker 6: what are you talking to me? He said, no, the
Speaker 6: Salt and Pepper man. And so Paul then says, you
Speaker 6: know it's I haven't seen it. But it's the kind
Speaker 6: of thing you know, when you feed off of one another.
Speaker 6: It's it's unless your studio. I remember, I'm not a musician, So.
Speaker 2: But did you send tension in the air like because
Speaker 2: they basically broke up on the record that Billy was
Speaker 2: involved with the most.
Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to figure out, like how I
Speaker 1: did not?
Speaker 6: I did not anything, you know, it was just a
Speaker 6: team of people playing music.
Speaker 2: Can you describe what working with Jerry Moss and and
Speaker 2: Herb Albert were like in the sort of this the
Speaker 2: seventies incarnation of A and M Records.
Speaker 6: There was another guy to Gil Frieson. I don't know
Speaker 6: what he does now, you know, but they were just
Speaker 6: absolutely incredible. You know, they had Lou Adler with what
Speaker 6: was his he had a record label within the Moss.
Speaker 6: So it was a I don't know if you remember
Speaker 6: they bought the I'm gonna say Laurel and Hardy studios.
Speaker 1: So this Charlie Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin, Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 6: Kind of a unique place in charn Carol Adler, Billy Preston,
Speaker 6: you know, the you know, all of the acts. Everybody
Speaker 6: was on the lot. You know, you had to reserve
Speaker 6: the studio. Sly wanted to record there. It became like
Speaker 6: a record plant the place to record.
Speaker 4: You know, like that's crazy because you know we take
Speaker 4: an episode with Shaka at that building, you did.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Shaka is up for.
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame this year live Well she was nominated,
Speaker 1: but I'll try for next year.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's you. That's a long story.
Speaker 6: That's when you're when you're when you're getting the you know,
Speaker 6: the people to vote or however one gets on the
Speaker 6: Hall of Fame. Maybe maybe I can remind him that
Speaker 6: Diana hasn't been nominated us what that's right, Well, she's.
Speaker 1: Not there as a solo act, but she's there as
Speaker 1: a supreme right, But the.
Speaker 3: Same argument as Tina in a way, right, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean, my personal opinion is it's like, once you're
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame, you should be in the
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame. I meant for me to do solo
Speaker 2: acts in that I mean, and that's basically just too
Speaker 2: nuanced the Hall of Fame as an entity, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we need somebody exciting.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I kind of feel like, once you're in your bodies
Speaker 4: of work, isn't it like a body of work with
Speaker 4: But he had our whole body of work by ourself.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: But my whole thing is like, but when when we
Speaker 2: start like double dipping, then that just takes other other
Speaker 2: slots away from other people. Like in other words, if Tina,
Speaker 2: who's already in the rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
Speaker 2: weren't there, then I'm certain that Chicago, Chicago's Sokka would
Speaker 2: have been an easy ushering. I mean, it's it's I know,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's hard. I'm just trying to fix it,
Speaker 2: fix it.
Speaker 6: I'm aware of it. There's two sides to every maybe
Speaker 6: three sides to every. And it's political too, you know,
Speaker 6: it's very political. You know, it's like the Grammys finally
Speaker 6: they made a chance, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 6: we could bring up the weekend, but you know, let's
Speaker 6: just stay focused here because I'm going then do you
Speaker 6: want to so?
Speaker 2: Okay, So walk me through the process of in the
Speaker 2: early seventies, walk me through the process of.
Speaker 1: What it really takes to break an artist open.
Speaker 2: Now today we have a different mentality, of course, uh
Speaker 2: to be uh you know, you break your artists out
Speaker 2: on social media, which spreads faster. But in the seventies,
Speaker 2: with limited resources, as far as like talk shows are concern,
Speaker 2: music shows are concerned, like how do you strategize breaking
Speaker 2: enact like Billy Preston open, especially when like three of
Speaker 2: his biggest hits were instrumentals, right, speaking of space phrase,
Speaker 2: speaking of like all the all those all those like
Speaker 2: early songs of his. So how can you walk us
Speaker 2: through what your strategy was in breaking him wide open?
Speaker 6: Independence? Do you remember the old independent? Do you know
Speaker 6: that would promote your record, that could guarantee you a
Speaker 6: top fifty record?
Speaker 2: Okay, walk us through that for our artists who doesn't know. Okay,
Speaker 2: So let's take a let's take a we'll it go
Speaker 2: or sing a simple I sing a simple no no, no,
Speaker 2: let's do we'll go round in circles.
Speaker 1: So okay, we'll go round in circles?
Speaker 2: Is complete it? Now, how do you break that open?
Speaker 2: What's the first thing that happens? What's the first phone
Speaker 2: call you make?
Speaker 6: Jerry gill herb All believed in this song. There was rhythm,
Speaker 6: you know, there was a rhythm to it. It was
Speaker 6: something that you would repeat afterwards. And it was like
Speaker 6: the perfect song for them to get behind. And so
Speaker 6: they hired the promotion department had I would say, twenty
Speaker 6: independent guys that could program directors. Got to remember, there
Speaker 6: wasn't radio. Each didy had their own R and B.
Speaker 6: You know, it was either a black record or a
Speaker 6: white record or you know, every once in a while,
Speaker 6: like you know, you didn't know. But so you could buy,
Speaker 6: you know, if the record was good and it was
Speaker 6: getting play on both stations, both sides of the you know,
Speaker 6: you could buy, you buy program directors. Now they used
Speaker 6: everything from cash to trips.
Speaker 1: You know, walkas walkas like whatever. You're allowed to say.
Speaker 2: What I mean, it's been written about a hitman, So okay,
Speaker 2: So at the time when you're hearing the song, are
Speaker 2: you guys instantly saying this song has the right elements
Speaker 2: to actually be a pop hit, or you're just like,
Speaker 2: let's establish him on the R and B chart first
Speaker 2: of all. It's like with with with his Beatles sort
Speaker 2: of pedigree, with with Billy Preston's Beatles pedigree. Are you
Speaker 2: guys instantly thinking that, okay, that's enough to just instantly
Speaker 2: take him to the pop charts, or you like, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's establish his black roots first and then we cross
Speaker 2: over to pop like.
Speaker 6: We never thought. We always thought of pop and R
Speaker 6: and B at the time. We never we never categorized
Speaker 6: Billy as an R and B act or as you know,
Speaker 6: as a pop act. We just categorized him because of
Speaker 6: the Beatles, because of the interviews, and everybody wanted to
Speaker 6: know what it was like to play with the Beatles.
Speaker 6: We had some momentum, you know, is that wave you're
Speaker 6: waiting for? So now how do we ride that wave?
Speaker 6: You know? So the you know, we knew we had
Speaker 6: to get a I didn't pay for it, Billy didn't
Speaker 6: pay for it. It was a matter of doing business.
Speaker 6: You got these ten independents that could buy major cities,
Speaker 6: and then all the small cities would follow the major cities.
Speaker 6: Playing those twenty records. You know, and it was paid for.
Speaker 6: It was called paola.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't know they use that word out loud.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's an old term that I don't, you know,
Speaker 6: use it. TikTok is used now, that's what it was.
Speaker 6: I don't even know the algorithm for TikTok, but you
Speaker 6: know you got people popping up selling fifty million downloads,
Speaker 6: you know, from TikTok. I think somebody's selling algorithms.
Speaker 1: You know, I always always wondered, I think.
Speaker 3: That over a million TikTok to right box.
Speaker 6: You know, driver's license is good, but come on, man,
Speaker 6: I mean you know.
Speaker 2: You got Olivia Rodrigo smoke already nice, yeah, Rodrigo, And just.
Speaker 6: Like that with anybody. You could take ten top artists
Speaker 6: and they didn't sell that many downloads, you know, So
Speaker 6: you know it's paola. I don't know. Maybe uh, maybe
Speaker 6: you know, the Chinese are selling the algorithms like Facebook doesn't.
Speaker 6: I don't even know anymore. But Iola was was you know,
Speaker 6: you remember going to court. Did I hied them?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 6: I didn't hire them. All the record companies did, you know?
Speaker 6: And they all got their hands slapped and then for
Speaker 6: a minute it never stopped until iHeart, or until there
Speaker 6: was one program director across the country. You know, I
Speaker 6: can't remember when it starts.
Speaker 3: Think like the early two thousands, Like early.
Speaker 2: Thousands, I'm gonna sound scan, Yeah, I think one sound
Speaker 2: scan came into play.
Speaker 1: Then you couldn't just independently.
Speaker 6: No, I was after that the man, I can't even
Speaker 6: give you a date because they're they're kind of convoluted.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I've been on a couple of until at the time,
Speaker 2: and I know that for a lot of black acts
Speaker 2: in the seventies, it seemed like a whole new world
Speaker 2: of It's a whole new playing field because all the
Speaker 2: limitations that were there in the sixties, as far as
Speaker 2: non motown black acts in the fifties and forties and
Speaker 2: thirties and twenties and before the seventies, subtenly.
Speaker 1: A brand new type of playing field.
Speaker 2: I won't say that's an even level playing field, but
Speaker 2: I'll say that it was a new type of playing field,
Speaker 2: whereas black acts could sort of experience the kind of
Speaker 2: accolades and bells and whistles that were there for their
Speaker 2: rock or white counterparts. So that said, I know that
Speaker 2: in the seventies there was you there was Sheep Gordon,
Speaker 2: there was Freddy Demand, Bob Cavello, Ruffalo, and I forget yeah,
Speaker 2: for all those cats. Is it the equivalent of trying
Speaker 2: to muscle a rebound in an NBA game?
Speaker 1: Like as far as.
Speaker 8: As far as sports metaphors go, Well, no, no, no,
Speaker 8: I just mean in terms well, I'm just saying in
Speaker 8: terms of you know, someone's the big dog, you know,
Speaker 8: and you someone's the big dog in the game, and
Speaker 8: then you got to figure out how to also muscle
Speaker 8: your way.
Speaker 10: Into a situation so that your act does get on
Speaker 10: Dinah Shore, or your act does get on Don Christmas
Speaker 10: Rock Concert, or your act does get his fifty spins
Speaker 10: a week on in particular radio station, like as far
Speaker 10: as your peers were concerned, at least for those those
Speaker 10: acts I name, am I naming the correct acts of
Speaker 10: managers that were the super like who who in your opinion,
Speaker 10: were like the top five managers for black acts that
Speaker 10: were crossover. I mean, do you agree that Demand, Freddie
Speaker 10: DeMann and Shep Gordon Madonna?
Speaker 6: I think back then, but Shep Gordon was my friend,
Speaker 6: so so through Luther I had an act. You know,
Speaker 6: I think that Billy introduced me to Donnie Hathaway. Really yeah,
Speaker 6: but Luther was Shep's act that so was Alice Cooper.
Speaker 6: But I in a guy's a big accountant, accountant's office
Speaker 6: called Bert Padell, and yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: So it was on Broadway and Earl the prol Monroe
Speaker 6: had his little record company up there, and uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: Michael Lang from Woodstock had Joe Cocker. That's how he
Speaker 6: did You Are So Beautiful. That's how I got that hit.
Speaker 6: Billy wrote it, of course, you know about God, and
Speaker 6: then Joe Cocker made it, you know, more popular. You know,
Speaker 6: it's just it's being in the right place at the
Speaker 6: right time and had some look you know, I know,
Speaker 6: you know, you work your you work together. That A
Speaker 6: side the publishing. Then the B side is just a
Speaker 6: B side, but everybody knows the A side is a hit.
Speaker 6: And then the directors play the B side, but at
Speaker 6: least nide. But do you go with it and say, oh,
Speaker 6: you know, that was the right song all the way.
Speaker 6: And you know, we always believe in the you know,
Speaker 6: we like that song too. Everybody take credit for being
Speaker 6: lucky and be at the right place at the right time.
Speaker 6: Four or five times that I can remember, even with Billy,
Speaker 6: you know, everybody's for sure everything sounds good in the studio.
Speaker 6: I used to take the cassette outside and put it
Speaker 6: in my car and say, you know, it's one listening
Speaker 6: to the studio because let me see it sounds in
Speaker 6: the car. You know, sounds corny. But I wanted to
Speaker 6: know how that cassette or a track sounded in the car.
Speaker 6: I can't even remember, you know. And then not that
Speaker 6: I could even influence a Phil Specter or a Billy
Speaker 6: Preston or whoever else I worked with, But you know
Speaker 6: I was involved in it, you know, from the beginning,
Speaker 6: you know, go into the studio, to go into the
Speaker 6: record label. You know, I'm just it's total involvement. You know,
Speaker 6: it's a commitment that you make, you know, with even
Speaker 6: even with Neat Loaf, with Shaka, with Rufus, with Billy,
Speaker 6: you know, with the English acts that I've had, you know,
Speaker 6: there's a tremendous commitment. You know, I'd go on the road,
Speaker 6: I'd be flying, you know, four or five days a week,
Speaker 6: so I get to me. Then I have children, and
Speaker 6: then it's not like my ex didn't you know, tour
Speaker 6: you know that was the height of her touring days,
Speaker 6: so you know it was a constant commitment. But I
Speaker 6: will tell you that I just brought up a story
Speaker 6: because you mentioned that the Philly Sound I sold out
Speaker 6: Shase Stadium forty years ago with Shaka and the OJS.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 6: Really yeah, for ten other acts. But I was involved
Speaker 6: with a promoter and I can't think of his name.
Speaker 6: Maybe it was Rob Delsner. Question, do you know who
Speaker 6: Ron Delsner is?
Speaker 1: I've heard the name. Uh not, I've heard his name before.
Speaker 6: Just then, he's the first one to do Central Park,
Speaker 6: He's the first one to clean it up. He did
Speaker 6: Elton John and Eric Clapton at Chase State during the
Speaker 6: summer and then we re saw the outfield while they
Speaker 6: had three away games. I mean, he is a legend,
Speaker 6: it and then Live Nation was formed from his He
Speaker 6: has still has the lease on Joan's Beech, which is
Speaker 6: a public you know, it's a state you know. And
Speaker 6: then with Live Day brought pace and bought you know
Speaker 6: that there was before a e g. It was before
Speaker 6: Clancy and uh the Bowery Ballroom do you do you know?
Speaker 6: I mean the ball reductions, you know, so you know
Speaker 6: then I had theaters with Delsner during that forty second redevelopment.
Speaker 1: What was your phone book like?
Speaker 2: Because I also know that relationships like just to be
Speaker 2: a manager, and you're naming all these names, I'm certain,
Speaker 2: And that's just like New York connections, I'm certain, like
Speaker 2: with Philly with Larry Marshak and all these like Ticket
Speaker 2: Tron and all all these other.
Speaker 1: Spots, Billy Preston right too, Yeah, and the early seventies.
Speaker 2: So it's just how exhausting is it maintaining relationships, especially
Speaker 2: when this is such a favor for a favor of business.
Speaker 6: I'm still doing it, Crest, Okay, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: I mean it's you know, I mean, I'll match my
Speaker 6: contacts to your contacts on my phone.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm still doing it. You know, I'm still
Speaker 6: friends with the guy that made the deal for Priority
Speaker 6: to go to EMI. You know, I stayed in this house.
Speaker 6: That was thirty years ago. He was also the CEO
Speaker 6: and Arista Records. You know, he was the CEO for
Speaker 6: Blackwell when Chris brought Bob Marley to America Island Records,
Speaker 6: Yellow Man, all of those people you too. I mean,
Speaker 6: I can go on and on how many acts that
Speaker 6: I've been around, but I developed these relates yellow man.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's fascinating how your story is.
Speaker 4: Chep's sounds so similar, especially in your beginnings, because it
Speaker 4: seemed like both of y'all had artists that just looked,
Speaker 4: I don't want to say, just looked at you, but
Speaker 4: had a conversation, looked at you and said you should
Speaker 4: be a manager, and it just built from there.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 11: What do you think it is that those artists saw
Speaker 11: and you, Bob that made them say like, hey, we
Speaker 11: trust you to do this.
Speaker 6: You know, I I have that that that you know
Speaker 6: Cresh plays the drugs. You know, you don't have some
Speaker 6: uh some hidden tell it. You know, I see on
Speaker 6: you know American Scott telling an autistic and can see
Speaker 6: can't talk, you know, when they'll sit in the sit
Speaker 6: at the piano and sound like Elton Job. I don't know,
Speaker 6: maybe I was, you know, you know the way Billy
Speaker 6: was taught by God to play the piano. You know,
Speaker 6: I don't think you can somebody to play baseball or
Speaker 6: basketball to either have it. You know, I don't care
Speaker 6: if you coach them or tennis, whatever it is. I
Speaker 6: think that you know, you kind of find your way.
Speaker 6: I was lucky enough to find my way in life
Speaker 6: and take advance that I had away with people. You
Speaker 6: know that they went away, that they that they liked me,
Speaker 6: but I genuinely liked them. And I never started networking.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, question, you know I've been. I
Speaker 6: had a rap label with Africambada and a guy called
Speaker 6: Rockey Buchanan in nineteen eighty five called Strong City.
Speaker 1: That the guy from Wait a minute, you were part
Speaker 1: of Strong City.
Speaker 6: I was half owner.
Speaker 1: Yeah shit, okay, know that that's a busy B and
Speaker 1: yeah bussy.
Speaker 6: B Lady B for Philadelphia, Yes, lady B. Well, I
Speaker 6: had a crush on her man.
Speaker 1: We all did.
Speaker 2: She still looks timeless. Wait okay, so since we're talking
Speaker 2: about that, can you what is your general rule of
Speaker 2: thumb for management? I know STEP's whole thing was like, uh,
Speaker 2: don't forget the cash. Rule number two is remember to
Speaker 2: always ever forget. Don't forget the cash. And then world number.
Speaker 1: Three is always remember to never forget, don't get to
Speaker 1: get the cash.
Speaker 2: But for you because even okay, like I know that
Speaker 2: even though I'm social, I don't really I'm a reluctant
Speaker 2: people person Like, I know that with managing, you have
Speaker 2: to sit and talk to people one on one.
Speaker 1: You gotta talk with you, you gotta spend time.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm personally I'm kind of a hands off guy
Speaker 2: and like I'll do just enough, just a nuanced a relationship.
Speaker 2: But I mean, was there ever a time in your
Speaker 2: especially in those like first ten years, where you got
Speaker 2: an eye roll because you gotta take this guy out
Speaker 2: to dinner in order to get spends here, or you know,
Speaker 2: whatever you did to negotiate Billy Preston for that Fast
Speaker 2: Break movie in the seventies or whatever.
Speaker 1: What are your general rules of management?
Speaker 6: There were no rules. I try to they liked people.
Speaker 6: Don Cornelius and I were friends before he put Billy
Speaker 6: Preston on. Don Cornelius and I played basketball with Mary
Speaker 6: Wilson's second husband, Pedro. You know, we had a regular game.
Speaker 6: I was up in Don's house a lot. He Don
Speaker 6: had a record label. I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 6: don't have a record label, and that he needed me
Speaker 6: in New York, you know, and you know I'm not
Speaker 6: going to be obvious, but I'll be obvious. You know,
Speaker 6: he knew that he needed somebody a jew in New York,
Speaker 6: you know, to go New York, New York.
Speaker 3: Thank you. We need it. Seemed like everybody needs.
Speaker 6: And recording quest. I have a story that you might
Speaker 6: not think it's funny, but you know that's me.
Speaker 3: Let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the understand.
Speaker 6: Okay. So it just came to me, all right. So, uh,
Speaker 6: Diana and I are friends. She was picking out a
Speaker 6: gift for Barry Gordy. I happen to be in a
Speaker 6: clothing store. So the first time I meet Berry and
Speaker 6: Smoky and all of those people from Motown that Berry
Speaker 6: have them. You had an entourage, and We're having dinner
Speaker 6: at Diana South, and I'm really cool. This is fifty two,
Speaker 6: fifty three years ago, and so we're eating soul food
Speaker 6: and you know, I mean, you know, I'd already been
Speaker 6: used to it, but under the crest at that moment,
Speaker 6: at that time, I said, passed me the colored greens.
Speaker 1: Yo.
Speaker 6: There is.
Speaker 1: Animation, good life.
Speaker 2: There is our animation right there, laid and gentlemen, Oh
Speaker 2: my god, imagine.
Speaker 6: The way they carried on.
Speaker 3: And then Diana, I mean, Diana was feeling you. That's
Speaker 3: so much embarrassment. It's so much from something places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to say, that's what we call
Speaker 1: it Colin Greens from here on out. That's ye. Wait,
Speaker 1: it's only almost an hour and we only got to
Speaker 1: one client.
Speaker 2: Okay, with with Rufus and Shaka Khan, I gotta I
Speaker 2: gotta skip to rufins in Shaka Khan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what at what point do you enter?
Speaker 2: Because I know that Rufus was a band on Epic
Speaker 2: Records before they went to ABC. How did how did
Speaker 2: you enter into uh managing Rufus in Shaka Khan.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if it was Bobby Watching or Tony Maiden.
Speaker 6: I was really close with one of them. I think
Speaker 6: it was Tony the guitar player because he used to
Speaker 6: play you remember they used to go mouth Easton put
Speaker 6: the chords and somehow yeah, yeah, you know, and so
Speaker 6: we have this relationship and Tony or Bobby found Shaka
Speaker 6: and it was Rufus and would I be interested in
Speaker 6: managing them? And you know, I had to worry about
Speaker 6: Billy being jealous or you know, I don't have to
Speaker 6: say that if a manager has ten X and one
Speaker 6: of them is doing better, you know than the other.
Speaker 6: So Shaka and Rufus were opening for Billy Preston, and
Speaker 6: so you know, it was a fine line there before,
Speaker 6: you know. And then obviously, just like your children, one
Speaker 6: more successful than the other. And so I watched the
Speaker 6: scales just turn and then Billy was the opening act
Speaker 6: and I was able to deal with it. I mean
Speaker 6: I never went out and said, you know, I could
Speaker 6: manage you better. You know, meat Loaf came to me
Speaker 6: because I was, you know, considered a real serious kind
Speaker 6: of guy when it came you know, I'm playful. Yeah,
Speaker 6: but you know we all did in the seventies, you know.
Speaker 6: But but when it came to work, I didn't want
Speaker 6: to get high with my lawyer. I didn't want to
Speaker 6: get high with my accountant business, you know.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: So so it was, you know, I always went to
Speaker 6: if I didn't know something, I always got somebody better.
Speaker 6: Now I get people that are analytical strategic planners, you know.
Speaker 6: I never, you know, by the accountant that I got
Speaker 6: from Rufus. I never touched anybody's money. Never I get
Speaker 6: a and M to pay me my commission direct I had.
Speaker 6: They had an accountant that was an IRS agent, Billy
Speaker 6: and Shock, and they had total control over their money.
Speaker 6: Couldn fat Meat Love never got involved with his violences,
Speaker 6: you know, always through the record company, And I think
Speaker 6: that's the mistake a lot of artists make. We hear
Speaker 6: about Elton John as manager now has a hotel chain,
Speaker 6: you know in the Bahamas, and then they took his
Speaker 6: American Express card away. Billy Joel lost all of us
Speaker 6: from publishing to his brother in law, his sisters, you know,
Speaker 6: and couldn't make his house payments, you know, and took
Speaker 6: years to straighten it out. And so it's one thing,
Speaker 6: you know, I just was aware of other people. Maybe
Speaker 6: I'm lucky that I had a mom and dad that
Speaker 6: taught me right from wrong, that gave me no boundaries. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm really lucky.
Speaker 2: Let me let me ask you. In the in the
Speaker 2: imaging of Shaka Khan in the very beginning, you know,
Speaker 2: the group was kind of quote unquote green, and then
Speaker 2: you know, one or two three records in you know,
Speaker 2: this new image of Shaka, which is I guess probably
Speaker 2: the perfect balance of Betty Davis, who was totally wild,
Speaker 2: so wild in her imaging that you know she really
Speaker 2: kind of couldn't be marketed, and that of Tina Turner,
Speaker 2: like she sort of rode the middle of it. How
Speaker 2: how instrumental were you in sort of encouraging Shaka? And
Speaker 2: I'm kind of saying in a business way, but I
Speaker 2: mean Chicago was, I mean, Shako was very flamboyant and
Speaker 2: wow with their outfits and whatnot, you know, And I
Speaker 2: know that was kind of a first for a mainstream
Speaker 2: artist to really, especially a black woman, to do those things,
Speaker 2: even though Tina Turner and Betty Davis were kind of
Speaker 2: out the gate, but she Shackle like perfected it. How
Speaker 2: instrumental were you in sort of encouraging like the wild
Speaker 2: outfits and the and just her general imaging.
Speaker 6: Well, if you notice on her early records, I tried
Speaker 6: to create a logo to keep her happy and Rufus
Speaker 6: happy and touring with the Stones. Those lips everybody today
Speaker 6: still knows all of those are the Rolling Stones. So
Speaker 6: if you look on the early albums, their logo were
Speaker 6: Shopa's Mouth. Okay, you'll see that red logo.
Speaker 2: And I tried to drive it home and then I
Speaker 2: do that that that gave five year old mean nightmares
Speaker 2: with that big ass poster on the wall in the dark, Like, no,
Speaker 2: you can blame me for that.
Speaker 6: Honestly, gosh that okay, well no, no, but she you know,
Speaker 6: she was wonderful.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: I had this idea that she needed to be This
Speaker 6: is way before costumes and you know, and I thought
Speaker 6: she needed to be different, so I dressed her up.
Speaker 6: She kind of had this wild Indian look, and I
Speaker 6: happened to be in Denver, and you know, it started
Speaker 6: with a headdress and then it became an outfit and
Speaker 6: then you know, we built on it, you know. And
Speaker 6: she was really good to work with. I mean, she
Speaker 6: was you know, she was open to ideas. I can't
Speaker 6: say that there were a lot of those were my ideas,
Speaker 6: but she made the final decision. I would never tell
Speaker 6: you you got to record a song, or why don't
Speaker 6: you bring back Donnie Hathaway or why don't you I'm
Speaker 6: very good friends with l She's got some El Barner,
Speaker 6: you know. Do you know Jimmy Varner at all?
Speaker 1: I know Jimmy Her father used to be in The Quick?
Speaker 1: Really her father? Click? Wait, didn't he play Jackie Wilson
Speaker 1: in and.
Speaker 6: Some Motown stuff? Yeah? He was. He was fun.
Speaker 2: Played Jackie Wilson in a movie singing stop Dogging Me Around.
Speaker 1: I forget one of those.
Speaker 2: Was it not lebamb but like he yeah, I remember L. L.
Speaker 2: Varner's dad was in a group called Click.
Speaker 6: They're friends of mine, you know, And I'm just I'm
Speaker 6: just thinking how I could keep me entertaining and and
Speaker 6: throw some stuff out there. Shaka Shaka was really easy, uh,
Speaker 6: and you got her. Remember I'm traveling around with Nick
Speaker 6: Jagger and Nobody. Nobody. I mean, they're better live than
Speaker 6: they are by records. You know, I I absorb a lot.
Speaker 6: I take it in like a sponge. And so I'm
Speaker 6: watching Nick. You know, they're not selling all these records,
Speaker 6: but you know there's crowds of people. You can't we
Speaker 6: filled stadiums forty forty years ago.
Speaker 2: We were just talking about like marketing Shaka's wildness in
Speaker 2: a way that you know, I mean, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: like she definitely was one of the first artists that
Speaker 2: really in a nuanced way sold her sexuality in a
Speaker 2: way that was definitely pushing the envelope, but not like
Speaker 2: where Prince would really take it further, and you know
Speaker 2: the eighties. But I mean for me, that was revolutionary
Speaker 2: in the seventies.
Speaker 4: Sexy, sweet and kind of in natural in a way where.
Speaker 3: You look at all them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, I mean I'm watching all like she
Speaker 2: you know, yes, I got it, Yeah, yeah, yeah she
Speaker 2: you know, she used what she got to get what
Speaker 2: she want.
Speaker 6: That was all influenced by and and the way he
Speaker 6: pranstaged and the boas and the stuff that he wore.
Speaker 6: That's around the time of David Bowie, you know. And
Speaker 6: if you would, Mike, you see David or you know.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: So I saw this happening and I tried to bring
Speaker 6: it out into in Shaka. I thought she was beautiful
Speaker 6: and she was sexy and without being you know, today
Speaker 6: it's almost overdone. You know, we didn't we working back then,
Speaker 6: but we can be from and want to see more.
Speaker 6: So I was always careful not to offend anybody, you know.
Speaker 6: You know, we all remember the Shannon Jackson and the
Speaker 6: Justin Timberlake. I mean, so many stories pressed the flood
Speaker 6: in and out of my head.
Speaker 2: There's the question I always wanted to know though, Like
Speaker 2: one of my all time favorite records, Rufus and Chaka
Speaker 2: Khan was their album Asked Rufus in seventy seven. But
Speaker 2: I also know that the group imploded that year. And
Speaker 2: that's before you know, they had to you know, replace
Speaker 2: musicians and whatnot. Can you what was the situation like
Speaker 2: in seventy seven that broke the band, the original incarnation
Speaker 2: of Rufus and Shaka Khan?
Speaker 3: What was that?
Speaker 1: What was the situation that made that happen? If you
Speaker 1: can get into it.
Speaker 6: Every band, every band goes through this, you know, every band,
Speaker 6: you know, when they get too old, you can't get
Speaker 6: back together. But I see Journeys playing Jon's speech. You know,
Speaker 6: they all start to think. With success, you know, they
Speaker 6: all have opinions that they didn't have before. You know,
Speaker 6: when you're trying to make it, it's not so easy,
Speaker 6: you know, to explain. But I saw the friction, you know,
Speaker 6: as it was happening, and I you know, then we
Speaker 6: take Shaka and it's Rufus with Shaka God. And then
Speaker 6: of course with the success, you know, people are filling
Speaker 6: her ears. She doesn't need Rufous, you'll make, you know,
Speaker 6: instead of splitting it five ways, I don't know. I
Speaker 6: felt the friction. I tried to separate it with Rufous
Speaker 6: and Chakakan, but to reached a point where she was
Speaker 6: writing and then you know, she had a boyfriend, and
Speaker 6: it just became very convoluted, and as much as I
Speaker 6: wanted to keep it together because it was a huge fess.
Speaker 6: You know, we could do two gigs in a day
Speaker 6: at her height, we didn't know where I had a plan.
Speaker 6: You know, She'd played afternoon festival and we'd fly to
Speaker 6: another gig at night. I mean, the weekends were ridiculous
Speaker 6: that during the summer with her, you know, and honest
Speaker 6: to God, I mean I filled shay Stadium with her
Speaker 6: and the OJS and some five or six other acts.
Speaker 2: How much babysitting did you have to do as far
Speaker 2: as like, did you have to operate out of your
Speaker 2: office or was it like mandatory for you to be
Speaker 2: on site at all times to make sure that everything
Speaker 2: right swimming?
Speaker 6: I had an office, you know, building Johnny Kershner with
Speaker 6: my tenants. Yeah, per Sugarman. Do you know who that is?
Speaker 1: Yes? No pursum in Midnight Special, Yes, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 6: I was.
Speaker 2: I was a kid that had to go to bed
Speaker 2: at eight o'clock, but his parents were cool enough to
Speaker 2: wake him up at like midnight to watch all those shows.
Speaker 2: So I go to bed at eight, they wake me
Speaker 2: up at eleven forty five. I watched those shows till
Speaker 2: two am, then go back to sleep. So we didn't
Speaker 2: have We didn't have VCRs back then, so it's sort
Speaker 2: of like, this is your only chances. The earth went fire,
Speaker 2: so we.
Speaker 6: Got in trouble. He didn't have streaming, we didn't have
Speaker 6: cell phones. If you're in Houston, Texas, what are you
Speaker 6: gonna do? So, you know, I would always organize that
Speaker 6: we take the two one bedroom suites that make one
Speaker 6: big living room. So we would get sledge hammers and
Speaker 6: because you you know, when you're in Atlanta, there's nothing
Speaker 6: to do, so we'd remove the wall and have a
Speaker 6: big giant suite, you know, so it would be a
Speaker 6: two bedroom with an enormous suite. But we get the
Speaker 6: roadies and we evacuum it. We were really proud of it.
Speaker 6: You know that we did a really nice job.
Speaker 1: You could do that.
Speaker 6: Break them out.
Speaker 1: You could just sledge hammer a room down and the
Speaker 1: hotel be like all right, cool.
Speaker 6: So to make the two living rooms one big room. Yeah,
Speaker 6: all the time.
Speaker 1: So hotel damaging.
Speaker 2: Was this the seventies thing, like okay, well we'll pay
Speaker 2: the Keith Moon he was he was scared of me.
Speaker 1: Yes, I know who of.
Speaker 2: All your clients, who was the most unruly in terms
Speaker 2: of gotta get bail money or gotta make sure the
Speaker 2: press doesn't hear about this, or all right, how much
Speaker 2: hotel damage did they do? Or the plane or without
Speaker 2: saying stories, can you just say the one artist that
Speaker 2: you kind of had to have an eye on more
Speaker 2: than the other.
Speaker 6: One, Billy Preston. Okay, I'm with you. Do him a favor.
Speaker 6: In between his houses, I registered his car to my
Speaker 6: office building. It was still in his name, but so
Speaker 6: that we could get insurance on his cars because he
Speaker 6: was moving into Japanga Canyon. I will tell you he
Speaker 6: was in the studio with sly Stone with Phil Spector
Speaker 6: when they did all of this crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: That's all you have to say.
Speaker 6: Don't know they need beer. So Billy has a little
Speaker 6: friend and he goes to the seven eleven. Hypothetically, I
Speaker 6: don't know where he went. He runs over ten people
Speaker 6: and hits about fifteen cars and brings back studio okay,
Speaker 6: and never says a thing.
Speaker 2: Wait, as warmer time, please say that story one more time.
Speaker 1: That makes sure I heard it correctly.
Speaker 6: So they want some Cavasier and some beer. So they
Speaker 6: send out one of the roadies or whatever you want to,
Speaker 6: you know, one of Billy's friends, and they send them
Speaker 6: out in Billy's car to go and buy beer. Well,
Speaker 6: he ran over you know, six or seven people. He
Speaker 6: hit about fifteen cars and then came back never said
Speaker 6: a thing. Luckily, my roommate was Bob Shapiro.
Speaker 3: Okay before wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Speaker 6: He that was your roommate with the assistant district attorney
Speaker 6: after Brad Well, somebody introduced me and I said, could
Speaker 6: I stay there for a week. I'm just getting acclimated.
Speaker 6: And I stayed there for two years? Okay, yeah, And
Speaker 6: so you know, so I mean with Billy, with Shaka,
Speaker 6: I mean he was on speed dial with everybody would
Speaker 6: call me because from my roommate was Bob Shapiro.
Speaker 3: Oh ja, I mean I don't know, oh ja, legal zoom,
Speaker 3: thank you, Bob.
Speaker 1: That's right, yes, yes.
Speaker 6: The Honest company with Jessica album. You don't know that.
Speaker 6: That's Jesus Christ. Oh you're the greed is nothing compared
Speaker 6: to Honest. But there are eight hundred lawyers. But you know,
Speaker 6: and so Billy was, you know, that's just one of
Speaker 6: many stories. Okay, Billy Preston, but that's a good one,
Speaker 6: thank you. Okay, she's I.
Speaker 4: Just want to know that there was anybody who who
Speaker 4: they wanted you to manage them and you were like,
Speaker 4: it's not a good fit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who did you turn away that asked you demanded
Speaker 1: the best one?
Speaker 6: And for a Dean will tell you. You know, when
Speaker 6: they came to me, I said, I'm too busy.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, wow at the time, who were you busy with?
Speaker 1: Billy?
Speaker 6: And he'll say, you know, maybe you know, fifty years later,
Speaker 6: maybe you should have thought about managing me because they're
Speaker 6: round and they're still unbelievable lives that part.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wait, this is the question I always had wanted to know,
Speaker 2: and even when I played with him, I forgot to ask.
Speaker 2: I'm asking about ron Wood right now, his very first record.
Speaker 2: I've got my own album to do. Were you his
Speaker 2: manager at the time in Faces and Small Faces or
Speaker 2: were you as manager at the top of ron Wood's career.
Speaker 6: I was not. That was the end of Ronnie Wood's career.
Speaker 6: That's going back, that's even back before Billy the Faces
Speaker 6: and Rod Stewart.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you you came to ride ron at the
Speaker 2: beginning of his solo career after he left Faces.
Speaker 6: Yes, well not even he had a solo career, I
Speaker 6: want to be correct. He had a solo career and
Speaker 6: had an album out I think on Warner Brothers, but
Speaker 6: you know, it wasn't it wasn't going anywhere. He didn't
Speaker 6: really have a manager. Uh, they're a manager, and then
Speaker 6: there's managers, you know, and so there are agents, agents
Speaker 6: and of course I don't have to tell you you've
Speaker 6: probably been through a few over the years.
Speaker 2: So just one.
Speaker 1: Right, That's how I am. One person.
Speaker 6: Respect loyalty man, I really do. But you know, wood
Speaker 6: he came to me through a divorce and I knew
Speaker 6: the Stones. The Stones contacted me because of Billy pressed
Speaker 6: it okay, and then I found out they needed a
Speaker 6: guitar player and they interviewed Jeff Beck but he was
Speaker 6: out there and they interviewed Jeff Beck. I remember flying
Speaker 6: to Amsterdam. I remember flying Woody to Amsterdam, I remember.
Speaker 6: And he had that personality to clicked with Keith like
Speaker 6: Billy did. And uh, you know, they they had to
Speaker 6: earn the respect with Keith. Uh. And so I was
Speaker 6: able to do that Sideman deal on that seventy six tour.
Speaker 6: Then the next tour came out. But Bill, Billy had
Speaker 6: a career maybe nineteen seventy and Wood he stayed with them,
Speaker 6: and then eventually they made him a Stone because he
Speaker 6: fit in. He had his own personality and we call
Speaker 6: him followers today. But he brought more followers, you know,
Speaker 6: to the Stones, more you know, more personality, let's say,
Speaker 6: gave it a new face. I didn't make the deal.
Speaker 6: I made the deal, the first deal for him to
Speaker 6: join as a sideman with Billy Preston in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 6: I didn make that deal. So that's how Ron was
Speaker 6: on soul train. I get it absolutely. And Ron stayed
Speaker 6: with me in Malibu. But you got to remember Rod
Speaker 6: was living in Los Angeles and so Wood he was,
Speaker 6: you know, we're spending a lot of time in LA
Speaker 6: but he didn't have a home. And I said, you know, Colonda,
Speaker 6: you know, so we lived together for the summer. And
Speaker 6: that was one heck of a summer because as well
Speaker 6: known as Billy was, you know, Wood, he was from
Speaker 6: England and you know, and uh, you know, from the
Speaker 6: house in Malibu colony, and I mean, you cannot believe
Speaker 6: the people that were coming by, you know, Stephen Tyler
Speaker 6: and you know to Keith Moon. Uh what's her name? Uh?
Speaker 6: Bonnie Raid. Wait a minute, who else? The girl? She
Speaker 6: was dating the governor at the time. She was a
Speaker 6: regular Thank you, thank you, But yeah, it went by it.
Speaker 6: Now you're just on it, man, that's the ESPN.
Speaker 1: I'm on it. Can you settle this debate?
Speaker 2: Is it true that Billy Preston is really one of
Speaker 2: the co authors of the Stones Miss You?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: And that's one became a monstrous hit.
Speaker 2: I've heard rumors and stories that they were Tory in
Speaker 2: Paris or whatever. And then Billy Preston played a riff
Speaker 2: and then Mick was like, what's that was?
Speaker 10: That?
Speaker 6: Was that?
Speaker 1: Let's work on it.
Speaker 2: Was he ever properly compensated or included as a songwriter
Speaker 2: or miss You?
Speaker 1: Or was it just all glimmer twins and we'll just
Speaker 1: keep you on payroll?
Speaker 6: Glimmer twins. Damn, yeah, Glimmer twins.
Speaker 1: Thanks. Are there any other stories similar to that? Like
Speaker 1: what did he co write My Sweet Lord to?
Speaker 6: Or No, My Sweet Lords is all Billy? That's okay, damn,
Speaker 6: that's all you know, That's that's his roots. That's from
Speaker 6: growing up in James Cleveland's church, you know, that's that's
Speaker 6: what he believed in, you know, the Joe cockerhead. I mean,
Speaker 6: you know Billy played cake walk. I mean I learned
Speaker 6: how to cakewalk.
Speaker 3: No, it's funny because I was, like, you know, when.
Speaker 6: You of the music, you get up and your parents
Speaker 6: are in a in a in a black church.
Speaker 1: Okay, are you just when is the last time a
Speaker 1: white person taught us the black ship? Never happen before?
Speaker 6: Ever. This is a big night. If it was going
Speaker 6: to be somebody you got to see me moon walk
Speaker 6: and you.
Speaker 3: Get more walk to Okay, so walk walk moon walk.
Speaker 1: Okay, we got it all.
Speaker 4: So wait, Bob, I'm sorry, I mean said not what
Speaker 4: I'll be a crass, but I have a feeling like,
Speaker 4: was was Diana your first sister?
Speaker 3: Was was Diana your first sister?
Speaker 6: Yes? Really? Yes?
Speaker 3: Was she your last?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 7: Really?
Speaker 6: Books?
Speaker 2: Okay, actually say I do have a question. Did you
Speaker 2: manage Diana Ross or was she just your wife at
Speaker 2: the time?
Speaker 6: She was just my wife at the time, and the
Speaker 6: very worthy Diana think was just too strong, you know
Speaker 6: found yes, you know she went to RCA, you know,
Speaker 6: so did Michael go to you know, Columbia. You know,
Speaker 6: you know, I have the I have nothing but respect
Speaker 6: from what Barry created and the whole thing. I'll just
Speaker 6: leave it at that, you know. But people grow up,
Speaker 6: you know, and start to ask questions. And so from
Speaker 6: the seventies to the eighties we see as we see
Speaker 6: a change. And then of course Prince you know, you know,
Speaker 6: felt he was a slave to was it Warner brothers
Speaker 6: you know, and just went on strike, you know, slowly
Speaker 6: but surely. There were groundbreaking moments like that. But the
Speaker 6: Stones always paid homage to Muddy and Waters, B B. King,
Speaker 6: you know, all of those John Lee Hooker, I mean,
Speaker 6: they would I can remember going with you know where
Speaker 6: Woody and Keith and Nick you know, just would get
Speaker 6: on the stage and pay their you know respect. Of course,
Speaker 6: they took all the licks from them, you know. You know,
Speaker 6: Eric Clapton the same thing, you know, but he'd not
Speaker 6: deny it. Eric Clapton will tell you that he learned
Speaker 6: from John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters. And they don't
Speaker 6: deny it. They honor these guys, yeah.
Speaker 4: But they also did they understand their position and why
Speaker 4: you know, they kind of been pushed forward even past.
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting in that way, right because they
Speaker 4: have succeeded and sold more record than because of this.
Speaker 6: You know, what can I say? You know a lot
Speaker 6: of people, a lot of people got rich on the
Speaker 6: on the back of other people. You know, it's it
Speaker 6: doesn't it's not only the music business. Look at the
Speaker 6: basketball players, the foot players. Look at this guy that
Speaker 6: did sixty minutes with the baseball players coming out of
Speaker 6: d R and Cuba, you know, giving them the advance
Speaker 6: because there's you know, eight people sleep into a room,
Speaker 6: but you know they know who's important. But you know,
Speaker 6: then they have to I don't know if anybody sold
Speaker 6: that baseball guy that has a public company that invests
Speaker 6: in the players and you sign away twenty five percent,
Speaker 6: but he takes gover of your family now and he
Speaker 6: takes so he's hitting like six out of the guys
Speaker 6: making it to the major leagues, and he's got a
Speaker 6: hedge fund that you know, takes advantage of these Hispanic
Speaker 6: ball players. You know, but that'll change too. But they're
Speaker 6: getting out of Cuba and they're getting out of dr.
Speaker 6: But you go down to the DR and baseball diamonds
Speaker 6: are like you know, soccer fields in England. You know,
Speaker 6: everybody's playing baseball. It's the way out. It's you know,
Speaker 6: we're just open to it. You know. The Internet has
Speaker 6: made us aware of all of this, uh, this nonsense
Speaker 6: that's going on, and it seems to be not connecting us,
Speaker 6: you know, but separating us.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, because the way you just broke it down
Speaker 4: to Bob is like based on at least Billy Preston's story.
Speaker 4: And what we just talked about is like with Muddy
Speaker 4: Waters and all those folks, it's like this music business
Speaker 4: was on their backs and you know most of them
Speaker 4: didn't receive accolades. Are cool, but again, right, and that
Speaker 4: still is what it is when the music business become.
Speaker 3: A billion trillion dollar situation. So it's just it's fascinating
Speaker 3: in the music business in that way. How it's just
Speaker 3: literally on their backs.
Speaker 6: You know, we've seen a tremendous change. You know when
Speaker 6: the Apple came along with the iPod, you know, when
Speaker 6: then there was a Spotify. But before that, there was
Speaker 6: a company at Australia that was playing songs on the internet.
Speaker 6: Uh it was actually a Facebook movie because he was
Speaker 6: one of the investors in Facebook.
Speaker 1: What was then.
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you, thank you. Do you know, do you
Speaker 6: remember any of those stories. Napster was the first streaming
Speaker 6: service for music, but you didn't nobody got paid. It
Speaker 6: was like the boats off of England that could broadcast
Speaker 6: you know, rock and roll music, pirate radio. Yeah, I've
Speaker 6: seen some headshaking you you remember those stories. Yeah, of
Speaker 6: course there was a film done.
Speaker 3: I love that film. I saw that it was good
Speaker 3: about the.
Speaker 6: You know, we're going about fifty five years.
Speaker 2: What was it about meat Loof that told you, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take a chance on this guy, because you know,
Speaker 2: even with even with sort of Todd Rundron And I
Speaker 2: said that, uh, incorrect, because Steve's not here to correct me.
Speaker 2: He gets mad when I mispronounced Tod's name. My pelt Philadelphia. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: But how what was it about meat Loaf? Because I,
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that, you know, in the seventies
Speaker 2: you could sell any artists. I sort of feel like
Speaker 2: after Christopher crossed the Grammys in the eighties, that's when
Speaker 2: the age of the mami artist was over.
Speaker 1: Like you had to have a look, a good look
Speaker 1: or a unique look, memorable look.
Speaker 2: After that point, now we're sort of like getting away
Speaker 2: from body steaming all those things.
Speaker 1: But it was like at the time.
Speaker 2: When you're being approached by Meatloaf, like what was it
Speaker 2: about him that said, you know what, this is gonna work?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: And how did you get twelve million people to agree
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 6: Once again, you know, I was around. I got to
Speaker 6: see the Who Do Tommy, which is the first opera
Speaker 6: rock and roll opera. Tina Turner was.
Speaker 1: Acid Queen a Queen Theater, High Theater, yeah, Radio City and.
Speaker 6: At the Palladium or whatever it was in England. You know.
Speaker 6: I I think that helped her career, you know, by
Speaker 6: being involved crossover kind of. I don't know if it
Speaker 6: crossed over, but this rock and roll opera, and I
Speaker 6: knew that there was something there, you know, and neat Loaf,
Speaker 6: although I wasn't the first manager, but Todd Rundgod was,
Speaker 6: you know, was Jim Steinman and Todd are the reason
Speaker 6: that this rock opera happened, you know. And because I'm
Speaker 6: aware of the Who and Townshend, you know, and Daltry,
Speaker 6: and I'm watching these live performances because I'm part of
Speaker 6: that inner circle, you know, I'm hearing something, you know,
Speaker 6: where it doesn't have to be a whole opera, so
Speaker 6: it has to be an extravaganza.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: It's when we had Biro, when Emerson Lake and Palmer,
Speaker 6: the piano would go around while he's playing the grand piano,
Speaker 6: The entire piano was going around. If you ever saw
Speaker 6: some of those bands, and the special effect that they
Speaker 6: had was incredible. So I mean, I'm seeing at Zeppelin
Speaker 6: ping Floyd. You remember they used to fly things in
Speaker 6: the air that he was there. You know, I'm aware
Speaker 6: of it. So I tried to bring it into a
Speaker 6: stage performance where you know, I had a forty foot motorcycle.
Speaker 6: You know that actually you could ride and smoke came
Speaker 6: out of the you know, smoke came out of the
Speaker 6: there's you know, it was part of the stage. It
Speaker 6: was part of the staging. Back then, you know, you
Speaker 6: had to you know, we were competing, you know, to
Speaker 6: draw attention. But in England, you know, whatever he did,
Speaker 6: you know, he was on the charters for two years.
Speaker 6: You know, it was absolutely incredible. So we moved, We
Speaker 6: moved to England. We were lucky enough to be put
Speaker 6: up in England and then we just we could tour England.
Speaker 6: You know, go around the entire country Scotland, you know,
Speaker 6: Ireland and then come back. Or we could do you know,
Speaker 6: we could do Wembley Stadium again, not the stadium, but
Speaker 6: the indoor.
Speaker 1: But what I want to know is that ba Al
Speaker 1: of Hell was his first record.
Speaker 2: So it's like I would think in breaking an artist
Speaker 2: like you start off small, like you, you know, you
Speaker 2: play the troubadour, you play the thing. But I mean,
Speaker 2: am I to believe that this unknown, unproven act just
Speaker 2: comes out the gate and you're instantly thinking, and I
Speaker 2: know it had to be costly expensive rock opera and
Speaker 2: we're gonna sell gazillion units.
Speaker 6: It's not even gonna believe this story, and you can't
Speaker 6: make this stuff up. Then if the rented comes out, okay,
Speaker 6: you know he's an ex football player, aligneman, I mean,
Speaker 6: he's bigger than life, okay, and it's time to tour
Speaker 6: and he loses his voice for eight months, do you
Speaker 6: hear me? He can't talk. Nothing comes out of this
Speaker 6: out for eight months, and the record starting to climb
Speaker 6: and climb, and we're going to vocal coaches, psychiatrist, We're
Speaker 6: going to try and figure out what's the matter with
Speaker 6: his voice and we couldn't get his voice back.
Speaker 1: Was he psychosomatic? Do you think?
Speaker 6: Oh? I think we all are.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I was about to say eight months and losing your voice.
Speaker 2: That's that's fear right there.
Speaker 6: That's fear. Fear of success, fear of everything. But I
Speaker 6: mean it came out in a way where it wasn't
Speaker 6: nerves or not sleep. It came out where he he
Speaker 6: couldn't sing. I'm telling you he couldn't sing. And so
Speaker 6: once again being at the right place and timing and everything,
Speaker 6: So what's happening is that there's who's meat up? Where
Speaker 6: is he? Why doesn't he perform? He can't even do
Speaker 6: TV or any of that. And then when he got
Speaker 6: his voice back, man, we went to England where the
Speaker 6: record was number one for twenty weeks in a row,
Speaker 6: you know, And that's how he burst onto the scene.
Speaker 2: So he had an eight month sort of build up thing,
Speaker 2: six or eight months, remember.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, but David Sonnenberg was the original manager. But
Speaker 6: you know, he had successful acts and didn't want to
Speaker 6: deal with somebody. You know, it all happened kind of suddenly,
Speaker 6: and of course he lost his voice, and then you know,
Speaker 6: I met him and I said, Oh my gosh, you know,
Speaker 6: I know his voice is going to come back, right,
Speaker 6: and that's how that that's how come he came onto
Speaker 6: the scene. But I had the experience of watching Freddie Mercury,
Speaker 6: of watching Who, of watching that Zeppelin, you know, I
Speaker 6: mean my time at that time, my favorite song for
Speaker 6: a moment was Stairway to Heaven. Of course, now it's
Speaker 6: become my theme shot being there's a new meaning to
Speaker 6: stare Away to Heaven for me.
Speaker 1: Now you're here now, so wait were you? Were you
Speaker 1: his manager?
Speaker 2: Also between both album because I know that after a
Speaker 2: bat out of the hell he took an eight to
Speaker 2: well break, I believe before.
Speaker 6: We went to Tom down at Criteria. Do you remember
Speaker 6: Criteria in you know, Tom Dowd was like the Wall
Speaker 6: of Sound with Phil Spector, Tom Dowd and Muscle Shoals.
Speaker 6: I don't know if you have ever seen the Netflix
Speaker 6: special on that white rhythm section that was doing a
Speaker 6: great black artists. You know they were realies, but man,
Speaker 6: you know that sound was all Muscle Shoals. It's a
Speaker 6: great uh Netflix uh special, Because I mean I looked
Speaker 6: at it, I couldn't believe it, you know, and people
Speaker 6: were flying in you know, uh, you know James Brown,
Speaker 6: I mean some ridiculous names were flying to muscle shows,
Speaker 6: muscle shows for that studio and that sound, and so
Speaker 6: you know Tom down. And then what happens is that,
Speaker 6: you know, everything is recoupable. And that's a word that
Speaker 6: you probably know of quest.
Speaker 1: I mean I barely know it. Yes, I know the
Speaker 1: hard way.
Speaker 6: You know, do the video. You want to spend one
Speaker 6: hundred Brad, here's one hundred grad. But it's recoupable. And
Speaker 6: before you knew it, you know, he was in debt
Speaker 6: to Colombia to Epic in such yet there was no
Speaker 6: way if he had another bat out of hell, that
Speaker 6: he could pay them back. And so you know, there
Speaker 6: was a way to get out of that debt and
Speaker 6: that was called bankruptcy. And then your contracts became null
Speaker 6: and void.
Speaker 11: And so.
Speaker 1: Eight years I get it, wow, really with a new deal,
Speaker 1: but I didn't say it. So he could he could.
Speaker 2: Survive for eight years without neither hit North and he
Speaker 2: didn't care like the age of videos going by and
Speaker 2: all those things.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know he came back with whatever,
Speaker 1: I won't do that.
Speaker 2: I forget the name of the sign came I mean
Speaker 2: he came back, but still that that's a hell of
Speaker 2: a risk just for bankruptcy.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, like Billy Preston had A and M records,
Speaker 6: we had Aristo records England that couldn't wait to sign them.
Speaker 6: And I don't think it was eight years. I think
Speaker 6: it was more like five or six years in between records.
Speaker 6: But what brought him back a second time was that
Speaker 6: he went back to Jim Steinman. Bonnie Tyler had which
Speaker 6: was meat Love's song, but that was really for meat Love,
Speaker 6: but they were few likes and Chocolate everybody else like
Speaker 6: the Beatles, like Foreigner, like Journey. I mean, you know,
Speaker 6: it's just going on and on, and so Steman gave
Speaker 6: it to Bonnie Tyler. She did a hell of the job.
Speaker 1: You're so right, dude, totally Clips of the Heart is
Speaker 1: such a total song.
Speaker 3: More hero.
Speaker 6: Hero ship.
Speaker 2: That stop after twelve seconds by right, right, Okay, I
Speaker 2: do all right. My last two main questions. I know
Speaker 2: that Franklin as I was also one of your clients.
Speaker 2: Hele were there any other clients clients that you have
Speaker 2: that we don't know about or for a brief time.
Speaker 6: I had I was spending so much time in England,
Speaker 6: I made friends with other masters. I can't think of
Speaker 6: his name, but Whim was one of his groups. Curiosity
Speaker 6: Killed the Cat, the Stranglers. If you look at the Stranglers,
Speaker 6: they were like, you know, like some of those uh
Speaker 6: punk rock fans that had a bit of success, but
Speaker 6: you the guy didn't want to travel back to New
Speaker 6: York or the United States. So I would handle not that,
Speaker 6: you know, I only commissioned the touring in America. So
Speaker 6: I was involved with a lot of English bands and
Speaker 6: I had, you know a lot of success as being
Speaker 6: a reasonable guy to deal and represent the managers in
Speaker 6: England that didn't want to be bothered coming over.
Speaker 2: So when their actually come to the States, you sort
Speaker 2: of tag team and sort of co manage.
Speaker 6: The agents to the whole nine yards. I was able
Speaker 6: to handle their their American tours. Yes, at what point, well.
Speaker 2: You mentioned when at all did you have to deal
Speaker 2: with them when when those albums were first coming out
Speaker 2: or make It Big or the Fantastic record the beginning.
Speaker 6: No, I was. I was very good friends with their manager,
Speaker 6: and so it brought me into the you know, into
Speaker 6: the chip boardens of England, you know, and so one
Speaker 6: relationship led to another relationship. You can remember. It was
Speaker 6: my life, you know, and so you know I was
Speaker 6: very comfortable in England in the music industry. You know,
Speaker 6: of course, traveling with uh you know, with the Stones,
Speaker 6: and you know I was I was part of that.
Speaker 6: You know that Clive Davis going back to Columbia. Uh,
Speaker 6: you know this is before Tommy Mottola.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 6: You know, I Walter was a very good friend. In fact,
Speaker 6: you brought up a name, Howling at the Moon. Did
Speaker 6: you ever read his book?
Speaker 2: I just got done read that was one of my
Speaker 2: pandemic books. Yes, that's a crazy story.
Speaker 6: It's absolutely crazy. We're not going to go there. But
Speaker 6: trust me, I was the Moon, you know he was.
Speaker 6: He was a great friend of mine. As crazy as
Speaker 6: he was, he was loyal. Uh he was.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: I have the most respect for him. And a lot
Speaker 6: of the English fan that I managed in this country
Speaker 6: came through Walter. In fact, he put me up from
Speaker 6: Curiosity Killed the Cat. Okay, so a three hit miracle
Speaker 6: bad all three good looking kids you know that could
Speaker 6: really sing like BTS or something like that. But you know,
Speaker 6: forty years ago, but you read Holly Howy at the Moon.
Speaker 1: I've read it.
Speaker 2: Trust me, there is there a point where was there
Speaker 2: ever a point in the eighties or the nineties where
Speaker 2: you're just like, I'm lost, Like every manager sort of
Speaker 2: has a breaking point with even with label CEOs. You
Speaker 2: mentioned Walter yet in a coffin. You know, he's very
Speaker 2: forthcoming with like his cocaine addiction and that sort of
Speaker 2: like sort of did him under. Shep of course made
Speaker 2: it known that, you know, having almost two cardiac arrests total.
Speaker 2: My it slowed down and he just took on Alice
Speaker 2: and no one else was there.
Speaker 6: Shep did one other thing. He discovered chefs, so Emerald
Speaker 6: Lagassi before there were chefs the men, so his special
Speaker 6: it's very special because he's he's the one that kind
Speaker 6: of created the chefs for the Food Network. There wouldn't
Speaker 6: have been to Gordon Ramsey, there wouldn't have been Bobby Flay,
Speaker 6: there wouldn't have been you if it wasn't for chef.
Speaker 2: That's how I got connected with Shep. My my friendship
Speaker 2: with him was actually in his food world. And then
Speaker 2: you know he told me about Teddy Pintograss and everyone beforehand.
Speaker 2: But yeah, in the food world, that's you know that
Speaker 2: was his pivot. Did you did you wind up having
Speaker 2: any other? Well, I know now you're you're involved in
Speaker 2: the the the long overdue hip Hop Museum.
Speaker 1: First of all, what can you explain?
Speaker 2: What what the what the general plan is with the
Speaker 2: Hip Hop Museum and and as far as like building
Speaker 2: in and structuring it.
Speaker 6: We broke round, you know, about three or four months ago.
Speaker 6: H L.
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited, but okay, yeah, email if.
Speaker 6: We couldn't get your even even with the d M.
Speaker 6: Finally we were able to communicate.
Speaker 12: But down in the I did real snarky on Twitter
Speaker 12: before I got an answer back, But go ahead, No,
Speaker 12: I was working that day.
Speaker 6: No, No, it's fine, it's fine. Look at we're together now,
Speaker 6: that's what's important, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 6: we had nas, we had Slick Rick, uh, Fat Joe,
Speaker 6: a lot of these. You know, I think Noazz is
Speaker 6: from Queen's Fat Joe Bronx. But hip hop started in
Speaker 6: the Bronx. I mean, there's no doubt about that, you know.
Speaker 6: And of course we lost Biz Marquee. Uh. This we
Speaker 6: so Rocky's dream for the last nine years, and once
Speaker 6: again I did Strong City with Rocky Butanan, it is
Speaker 6: his dream, it is his idea. He's the CEO of
Speaker 6: this nonprofit. He wants to do a Hall of Fame
Speaker 6: for hip hop artists. He wants to do the Walk
Speaker 6: of Fame with hip hop artists. It's it was a
Speaker 6: little hard touching on we're able to close a Microsoft deal,
Speaker 6: but it wasn't just money. It was their technology that
Speaker 6: would make this an AI museum, an interactive experience where
Speaker 6: you could actually tag the subway car but it would disappear,
Speaker 6: but you could get that selfie like the pink wall.
Speaker 6: So you know, they have a machine that you could
Speaker 6: tell what you you know, the kind of music that
Speaker 6: you liked from the best and the and the present,
Speaker 6: and it'll actually give you a playlist on Spotify automatic,
Speaker 6: you know. And so it's it's a dream of rock.
Speaker 6: He's just going to be a theater. There's going to
Speaker 6: We're talk we're hoping that, you know, we've got a
Speaker 6: commitment from the state, commitment from uh from the city.
Speaker 6: We're up to about thirty five million. We've just got
Speaker 6: the interior design and we're hoping that more people will
Speaker 6: get involved. But it's off to a great start. We're
Speaker 6: about seventy percent there and we broke ground. And uh,
Speaker 6: there's so much more that Rocky can tell you about.
Speaker 6: But but but everything is going in the right direction.
Speaker 6: And I see, you know, we'll be done by twenty
Speaker 6: twenty four. We've brought on the right people. There are
Speaker 6: some companies that all have diversity departments. Now, yeah, right,
Speaker 6: what about do you think Adidas or something to the
Speaker 6: rap community? Do you think Nike owns oh something to
Speaker 6: the raps? We can go on, you know, pull up
Speaker 6: the quote. I mean, how long have they taken advantage
Speaker 6: of a pivop and not given back?
Speaker 3: Is that why you decided to be on the on
Speaker 3: the committee?
Speaker 6: Oh no, but I mean Rocky's my friend for thirty year.
Speaker 6: But I mean, come on, man, I mean you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, you know sometimes you know, Rocky needed help
Speaker 6: with Song City. I went to Universal and this is
Speaker 6: you know, this to me. If I can help Rocky, Wow,
Speaker 6: what a way to go out, you know, I mean,
Speaker 6: so keeping me really active. You know, we're trying to
Speaker 6: put on Orchard Beach. Uh and welcome back to New York.
Speaker 6: When they're doing the Great Lawn, Clive Davis is doing
Speaker 6: the Great Lawn, you know, with Springing and Paul Simon,
Speaker 6: Nas is on that show earth Winded Fire, Jennifer Hudson.
Speaker 6: But you know, we just got George Clinton for Forest
Speaker 6: Hills and the Folkadelics. It's his fiftieth anniversary or something.
Speaker 6: But we're got a lot of guests, you know, to
Speaker 6: participate in that show. We've got the Peer in in Brooklyn.
Speaker 6: I don't have the list, uh, but you know, Next
Speaker 6: Friday is the deadline for everything. And then we have
Speaker 6: the Hip Hop Museum is doing Staten Island, Brooklyn Queens
Speaker 6: and the Bronx and they're gonna give us three minutes
Speaker 6: on the big screen for CNN is going to broadcast
Speaker 6: live from the Great Lawn, So when Nas comes on,
Speaker 6: they're gonna give us two and a half minutes of
Speaker 6: the history of hip hop, which we're putting together now.
Speaker 6: So that would be kind of cool for everybody to
Speaker 6: see where hip hop, you know, originated.
Speaker 1: Twenty four We used to see completion on this.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, all right, I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna get my contribution on so I can earn the
Speaker 1: quest level wing like.
Speaker 6: To be involved. We don't want your money, we want
Speaker 6: you I feel you, feel you.
Speaker 3: Okay, because I just want to know.
Speaker 4: Okay, so you know, as you know, one of the
Speaker 4: reasons that we brought you to the show is because
Speaker 4: we were talking to your daughter Tracy, and I have
Speaker 4: forgot yes, and I have to ask you because if
Speaker 4: anybody follows you on Instagram, you're the ultimate grandpa. You
Speaker 4: the ultimate girl dad with Ronda and Chutney and Tracy
Speaker 4: of course, but I want to know for you and Diana,
Speaker 4: because Tracy talks about her upbringing and how she never
Speaker 4: felt at a loss like her mom was a superstar,
Speaker 4: her dad is a superstar manager. But she never felt
Speaker 4: like she didn't see her parents. She never felt like
Speaker 4: she wasn't raised in a wholesome environment. I wanted to know, like,
Speaker 4: what conscious choices did you two make as parents, because
Speaker 4: you're torn. You done told us for an hour and
Speaker 4: a half, all these places that you've been, but you
Speaker 4: still to her are the best daddy ever.
Speaker 3: How did you make a conscious decision to make sure
Speaker 3: that happened.
Speaker 6: We both saw our weaknesses. I was lucky enough to
Speaker 6: go to college. You know. Diana stand started six singing
Speaker 6: when she was sixteen. We never saw other people. We
Speaker 6: never saw color in our house. We saw other people.
Speaker 6: We were able to talk about it. You know, that's
Speaker 6: fifty three years ago. We just celebrated. I didn't celebrate.
Speaker 6: I mean, I just this past January. I married her
Speaker 6: fifty years ago. You know, I know her for fifty
Speaker 6: three years. We were conscious of the way they were
Speaker 6: going to raise because they were mixed. You know, we
Speaker 6: were conscious that we had to educate them. It was
Speaker 6: a lot different back then. I think maybe two years
Speaker 6: before I got married. It was illegal. You know, there
Speaker 6: was just Sammy Davis and I. You know that we're
Speaker 6: out there that publicized that. There's been movies, some great movies,
Speaker 6: you know, of illegally. But you know, you know, I
Speaker 6: think when did I get married? Sixty nine or something
Speaker 6: like that. I can't even do the numbers. So Diana
Speaker 6: took the children everywhere I spent, you know, even when
Speaker 6: we were divorced, I had them every weekend. You know,
Speaker 6: we were on top of it. You know, I can
Speaker 6: remember one of putting Tracy out of the car, you know,
Speaker 6: because she she has my personality.
Speaker 3: Yes it does.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was on ninety five. I'll never forget this story. Well,
Speaker 6: one time on the way to school, she was telling
Speaker 6: me which way to go and she had her foot
Speaker 6: up on the seat. I took a shoe and I
Speaker 6: threw it out on Park Avenue Tracy store. She bought
Speaker 6: some pants. She put it twenty five. She needs the
Speaker 6: pants dead. Can you pick them up? Can you pick
Speaker 6: them up? A Parisuaye pants? The guy said there was seventh.
Speaker 6: Now you gotta remember, you know, she's sixteen or fourteen.
Speaker 6: And I pick up a par of Suey pants. There's
Speaker 6: about seven hundred dollars and all she just puts it.
Speaker 6: She needed them, she had them shortened. And she's always
Speaker 6: been into clothes. You know, we've always had this. We
Speaker 6: are so much alike in so many ways. Is you know,
Speaker 6: Ronda and I have a special bond, and Chudney's the baby,
Speaker 6: and I don't know, I don't see I still see
Speaker 6: them as young girls. You know. We just had the
Speaker 6: opportunity of the three grandchildren and my three daughters at
Speaker 6: Rober's apartment for a great get together and pictures. You
Speaker 6: know that we can compare when Tracy and Ronda and
Speaker 6: before Chudny was even born. It's just being in touch now.
Speaker 6: I text and I do these robots with my grandson, and.
Speaker 3: It's a star all day.
Speaker 6: You know, I'm making what is the name hero, I
Speaker 6: make my own robots with their own costumes, and I
Speaker 6: try it out and do them. So it's staying involved.
Speaker 6: It's being aware. It's just it's it's a strange time
Speaker 6: in this country, and so you know, some things you
Speaker 6: want to share, some things you don't want to share
Speaker 6: with children. It's just being aware and you know, everybody's
Speaker 6: got to get together. It's all about love. I mean,
Speaker 6: it really is.
Speaker 1: There you go, you know there it is.
Speaker 2: Well, you know I was told not to call you
Speaker 2: mister Ellis. No, no, you're you're my pal, Bob. Bob,
Speaker 2: thank you for coming on the show once again. Ladies
Speaker 2: and gentlemen, give it up for Bob Ellis, uh On
Speaker 2: behalf of Sugar, Steve and Fon, Tigelow and unpaid Bill
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, uh this is Quest Love another educational
Speaker 2: Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 1: We we will see you. Oh wait did I say something.
Speaker 3: No, I was I was agreeing with you want education.
Speaker 13: I'm sorry my bad thought. I was like, wait, this
Speaker 13: is Quest Love Supreme and we will see you on
Speaker 13: the next go round. All right, thank you very much.
Speaker 6: Yo.
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 11: This is Fante Make sure you keep up with us
Speaker 11: on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you
Speaker 11: think and who should be next to sit down with us.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all Right Peace.
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