WEBVTT - TechStuff Investigates McAfee 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.920 Brought to you by the two thousand twelve Toyota Camry. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.879 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:17.119 Stuff What Stop Coming? Hello again everyone, and welcome to 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:18.919 tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I'm an 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.079 editor here at how Stuff work dot com, say named 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.759 crush from me and as always a senior writer Jonathan Strick. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:30.240 Hey there. So, yeah, there's been some interesting news about 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.240 some tech personalities lately as of the time we're recording 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.040 this towards the end of November, and um, you know, 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.920 we've talked to a lot about people who have very 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:45.680 strong personalities, people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and um, 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.760 you know, very very powerful personalities there. Uh. They may 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.880 be friendly, they may be you know, have thorny anger, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.600 management problems or whatever. But for the most part, you know, 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:02.560 you can see a pretty good picture of the person involved. Um, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:09.240 and then there are other people who you go, wait what, Yeah, 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:11.920 We've had a pretty big one of those towards the 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:17.400 end of there's a spectrum of of normal, right right, 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.119 there's some people who are further out on the edges 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.600 of that spectrum. I would say people like Steve Jobs 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.319 and Bill Gates are a little further out on that 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.399 spectrum than others because they are very They were both 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.120 very driven. Of course Steve Jobs unfortunately passed away, but 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.840 both very driven individuals who were passionate about their interests 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:40.959 and UM, and both reportedly had times when they were 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.319 not the most pleasant of people to be around. So 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.240 so yeah, you've got that whole spectrum thing. Well that 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:48.920 we wanted to talk today about some people who kind 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.559 of fall outside that spectrum to the point where you'd say, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:57.760 all right, either this person has something seriously wrong going 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.880 on with them, or perhaps the things that are being 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.120 reported about this person are putting them in a really 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.640 bad light. But in any way, they are clearly they're 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.760 they're in a situation that is not normal, and they 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:13.680 themselves may not be what we would call normal. UM. 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:15.160 And the first one we wanted to talk about was 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.639 the one who was in the news recently is John McAfee. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.960 And McAfee is a guy who's he's been known as 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:27.400 being an eccentric for uh for more than a decade UM. 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.440 But McAfee he was born in England and raised in Virginia. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:35.040 He went to Roanoke College and got a degree in mathematics. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.760 From that college, UH, he spent time as a programmer 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.160 for NASA's Institute for Space Studies. He worked for a 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.960 couple of big companies. He worked for Univac, he worked 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.160 for Xerox. UH nineteen seventy eight, he joined the Computer 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:53.720 Sciences Corporation, and then he started working for Lockheed. And 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.640 while he was working for Lockheed, that's when he started 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:01.360 to develop the software that he has really become known for. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.840 In fact, it shares his name, the McAfee anti virus software. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.560 While at LOCKEED he was he became very interested in 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.560 this idea of detecting and removing computer viruses because they 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.440 were just really starting to blossom at that time. We're 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:23.119 talking about UM the late eighties, and you know, this 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.600 is before we really get into the eras of web. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.760 The Web doesn't really exist yet, actually doesn't exist yet 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.960 in the in the eighties UM, and very few companies 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.600 have access to some of the other Internet UM functionalities 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.160 like file transfer protocols or email, although they do exist 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:48.000 at this time. But he was he could see that 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.840 there was this rise in computer viruses and that because 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.280 computers followed directions, there are ways of creating directions that 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.280 make your computer do things that you don't necessarily want 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.600 it to do, whether that's completely filling up a hard 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:07.320 drive with meaningless information and breaking it, or installing some 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:14.480 sort of of of uh trojan program that protects a 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.880 nasty piece of malware from being detected. He was very 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.760 much dedicated to creating software that would that would find 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.000 that and remove it. Now, UM, it's interesting to note 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.720 a little bit about his his background and UM I 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:37.680 read not too long ago a piece from released by 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.080 Wired called John McAfee's Last Stand by Joshua Davis. They 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.479 also have a an e book available on Amazon that 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.240 you can purchase. I think it's nine cents and I 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.279 think it's a I want to say it's thirteen chapter 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.280 something like that. Yeah, yeah, it's it's not a long 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.719 long book, but it's you know, more than an article. Yeah, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:04.880 because apparently this from Wired was there for like six months. Yea. Um, 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.960 but yeah, he he had been um, you know, as 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.760 he was working for uh, you know, companies like omex 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.200 Um in the early nineteen eighties. I mean he was 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:19.800 a pretty heavy drug user. Apparently I used cocaine, coeludes. Um, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.400 you know, he he had been a pretty heavy drinker 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.880 before that, even in his college days. It looks like 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.080 um and apparently got to a point where he decided, 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.320 you know, that was it, he wasn't going to do 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.200 this anymore. And he really straightened up, um cleaned up. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.560 And this was you know, this was before he really 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.159 got the idea to go in and do this himself, 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.600 to launch his own company. Um so. And you know, 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.120 it's not that I necessarily want to uh smear mud 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.080 on John McAfee so much as I think it provides 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.520 some context for for the kinds of things that happened 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.000 later on in his life. Sure, and uh he made 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.240 some interesting decisions with that software that he created. One 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.680 of those was that he decided upon the shareware distribution model, 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.200 which ended up being a very effective way for him 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.040 to get that software out there on the market. Um So. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.280 In eighties seven he formed McAfee Associates, which was essentially 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:20.480 in charge of creating this MacAfee antivirus software. But it 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.720 wasn't that much longer. I mean, it was just in 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.359 ninety four when he resigned from the company, and a 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.880 couple of years later he sold his his stake uh 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:35.280 in the company entirely and just completely got away from it. Um. 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.720 At one point I hear that he was valued at 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:42.440 around a hundred million dollars. He himself stated that due 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.600 to the economic depression and downturn and and all these 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.800 other issues, that he was reduced too closer to four 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:56.080 million dollars uh after that was all over, although more 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.080 recently in two thousand twelve, he said that that was 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.320 probably not entirely accurate. He may he may in fact 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.239 have had a bit more than four million dollars UM. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.160 And this is where we start getting into some pretty 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.360 strange stuff. Um. He one thing was that he was 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:19.720 really interested in this this concept of quorum sensing, now 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.400 uh quick. Quarum sensing, especially when it refers to bacteria, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:29.560 is a way of the bacteria have of reacting in 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.800 a certain manner, and that manner is completely dependent upon 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.400 how much bacteria is present at that time. So in 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.800 other words, if you were to provide a stimulus to 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.080 these bacteria, they would provide a response that would be 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:48.600 based mostly upon how many other uh instances of that 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.360 bacteria are present. So if there is x number or greater, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.360 it will respond one way, but if it's fewer than that, 0:07:55.440 --> 0:08:00.360 it will respond a different way, and uh my Coufee 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:01.840 said that he was doing this in order to try 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:07.720 and develop new anti beyodics, antibacterial treatments, things that could 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:12.480 help humans, uh in a medicinal way. And he relocated 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.840 to two Belize, just in Central America. Uh the only 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.480 country in Central America, by the way, for which English 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.760 is the official language, although from what I understand it 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.920 is not the most prevalent language spoken there. It is however, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:31.360 the official one. Anyway, he moved to Belize, um created 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:36.280 this lab in his home, you know, apparently a pretty 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.400 large compound there, but he has a lab at that compound. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:45.040 That was from what he was saying, all about studying 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.920 this stuff to try and create better medicines, mostly medicines 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.439 that he was looking at. He was looking at a 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:58.280 lot of natural elements, things that were um found out 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.080 in rainforests, things like that as the key to these 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.680 sort of medicines. That's what he was claiming. Yeah, it 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.800 would seem that his his entrepreneurial spirit hasn't completely left 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.480 because he's done this. He's also even apparently tried to 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.520 come up with a a sport. Yes, when he was 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.800 living out in the Southwest and this is before he 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.360 moved to Belieze. Um. Apparently, Um, I was listening to 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.560 a radio report from someone who had been uh you know, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.360 who had met McAfee more than once, and he said, yeah, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.959 I want you to come out here and check out 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.920 this new sport, apparently, narrow trekking. You're supposed to fly, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.439 I don't know, very very close to the ground. Um. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.240 You fly very low to the ground using uh, some 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.880 form of aircraft. It might even be a hang glider 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.440 with a motor attached to it. But the idea is 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.040 that you are flying close to the ground so that 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.880 you get that real sense of speed and danger from 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:59.080 being you know, just a very short distance away from 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:05.080 crashing to a potential terrible injury or death. And in fact, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.280 McAfee was involved in a wrongful death lawsuit that was 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:15.959 the result of a person dying from an arrow trekking accident. Um, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.480 So I mean this was you know, he's known as 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.720 a daredevil as well as many other things, which will 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:23.880 I guess we can kind of segue into. Now this 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.800 is gonna get really weird, folks, because here here's the 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.920 thing is that there are a lot of different reports. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.119 There's what McAfee has said through or we presume it's McAfee, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.120 through various blogs and Twitter account Twitter messages, things like that, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.680 there are things that he has said, there are things 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.080 that people who know him have have said. There's things 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.679 that journalists who have investigated this have said, and honestly 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.120 we don't have the whole story. But no matter who's 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.760 telling the story, it's weird. UM has known that the 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.760 Polize police have visited him on more than on occasion. Yes, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:06.000 they're their gangs unit actually rated his house in April 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.359 two twelve, the Gang Suppression Unit in Orange Walk Down Belize. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.480 They rated his home under suspicion that his laboratory was 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.040 actually producing crystal meth. That that was in fact what 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.560 he was interested in making and not UM medicine. And 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.760 in fact there are there are journalists, they're bloggers who 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:30.800 have said that UM that that McAfee was very active 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:36.439 in online discussion forums that were dedicated to drug manufacturer 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.079 like as an illicit drugs or or recreational drugs. UM. 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.160 Although there is a woman who UM he talked into 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.760 a job offer to come down and work on UH 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.720 medicinal drugs as well. So that again this is their 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.640 conflicting report, right, So, so they could be that these 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.840 reports that he was the one who was on these 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.760 recreational drug sites, maybe that wasn't him because there they 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.520 were using uh uh pseudonyms, I mean handles, they weren't 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:09.160 It wasn't just him there. But Gismoto published a report 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.240 that very much seemed to indicate that he was one 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.960 of the people on this recreational drug forum talking about 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.080 trying to perfect a typical kind of drug that would, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:27.040 um well, supposed to enhance his his sexual experiences as 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.880 well as give a sense of euphoria and supposedly would 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:39.160 create a very gradual and mellow come down afterward. So uh, 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.559 and he the guy who was posting under this name, 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.720 posted a lot about this particular kind of drug. Um 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.520 Whether or not that was John McAfee, however, is still 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.920 a question. Now. One of the things that people have 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.160 said is that the drugs that he was talking about 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.679 often can create a sense of paranoia in someone who's 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.920 using those drugs. Now, again, whether or not McFee was 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.360 using those drugs is a is a question that's left open. However, 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.120 I think it's safe to say that paranoia is something 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.800 he has felt yes, he has. He has demonstrated, UH, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.520 paranoid tendencies. Now again there's always that joke just because 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.480 your paranoia doesn't mean they're not out to get you. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.560 But we can't really say that, but we can definitely 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.120 say that he has shown some some paranoid tendencies. One 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.880 of those is trying to evade the police. Now, as 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.439 of the recording of this podcast, which is at the 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.199 end of November twelve, he's still on the run from 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.679 police and Belize, And the reason why the police are 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.600 interested in him is that someone who lived near him, 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:49.160 Gregory Veant Fall, was found shot dead a few several 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:57.000 meters away from UH from McAfee's property and UM. Fall 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:03.320 and McAfee had a history of um H arguments, some 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.160 some UH some disagreements, one of which was that Fall 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.640 said that McAfee mcfee's dogs, when I think McFee owned 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.959 like eleven dogs, but that his dogs were barking all 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.960 the time and that was driving Fall crazy. And UH. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.400 One of the other issues that happened recently was that 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.080 several of McAfee's dogs, I think four of them died 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:29.560 of poisoning. So the implication here and again this is 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.880 all unfolding, so we don't have the full information, but 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.240 the implication is that perhaps Fall or someone that Fall knows, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.920 poisoned the dogs, and that perhaps there was an act 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.520 of retribution against Fall. So when the news first broke, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.640 it sounded like McAfee was not just a person of 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.600 interest but a suspect. Since then the police police have said, no, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.720 he's not a suspect. We just want to talk to 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.480 him because we want to find out who killed Fall. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:15:00.800 It's possible that perhaps someone around McAfee killed Fall or McAfee, 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.960 not necessarily on McAfee's command, because, as it turns out, 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.400 McAfee has seemingly started to hang out with some pretty 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.800 rough customers in Belize. Yep, the photography that that accompanies 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:18.960 the Wired book includes some people with some very large guns. Yeah, 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.080 the stories are essentially I'm sorry, I mean, there's a 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.960 guns are pretty heavily restricted in Beliefe. So the story 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.720 essentially is that it sounds like McAfee has um formed 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:36.400 relationships with several of the the drug gangs in Belize. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.880 Now it may be that he was doing this in 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:44.160 an attempt to get hold of materials for his legitimate 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:49.560 medical you know, research that could be the case, it 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.480 would not be necessarily the wisest move a person has 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.000 ever made to get involved with drug boards, but that's 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.360 a possibility. Now a lot of other people are saying, no, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.320 what's happening is McAfee got involved in so he could 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.880 get the ingredients need to make the recreational drugs that 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:10.480 he was interested in, which again we don't know um so. Anyway, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.480 it's possible that maybe one of these you know, gang 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.400 members that he hangs out with committed the murder and 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.080 it wasn't McAfee at all. So we don't know if 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.840 McAfee shot Fall, or if someone McAfee knows shot him, 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.160 or if it was just some random crime that seems 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.840 that seems the most unrealistic of the various possibilities, but 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.400 we don't know, um so. McAfee has been on the 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.520 run and has been posting, or at least there have 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.200 been blog posts attributed to McAfee that have posted in 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.280 his absence that have made things sound even more strange, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.960 for instance, that McAfee has been using elaborate disguises to 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.880 to hide in plain sight. Yes, he appeared as a 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.760 German um tourist basically using profanity and just shouting at 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.560 people randomly, or tried to uh disguise himself and hunch 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.359 over so that he didn't appear as tall as he 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.399 normally is, and uh spoken heavily accented English, trying to 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.119 sell trinkets to uh he said even or this person 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.840 said he even attempted to sell something to an Associated 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.119 Press reporter who didn't recognize him, a wooden dolphins. Yes, uh, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.880 that the reporter suddenly had an urgent call to attend to. Yeah, 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.080 it's in the blog post McAfee, assuming it is. McAfee 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.440 claimed that he nearly sold one of these trinkets before 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:40.520 the AP reporter was called away. Now the police police 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.439 have been asking him to turn himself in so that 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.720 he can talk about whatever it is that happened to 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.520 fall like who who could have possibly killed him, and 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.440 to clear his name. McAfee, in turn, has said that, 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.760 or at least according to these reports and according to 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.480 people who know him who say they've talked to him, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.760 says that he doesn't want to go into police custody 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.200 because he firmly believes that the police will kill him 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.040 once he's in their custody. Yeah he um he even 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.640 reacted to the that's the way he's on the run now. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.320 Actually was because when the when the police showed up, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:13.240 he thought they were coming to hassle him again. So 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.560 he here, that's what he says. Anyway, so he escaped 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.680 before they could catch him. He Um. So anyway, he's 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.560 saying that the police are definitely going to kill him 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.520 if they take him into custody. Uh. He's also at 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:31.240 one point apparently suggested that, uh that fall falls death 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.280 was really meant, was that there was a hit gone 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.960 wrong that was meant to hit McAfee and instead hit Fallum. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:39.920 That was one of the other possibilities I heard of 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.800 the couple of weeks before we record this podcast. Um. 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.080 So it's these are these are definitely tendencies that we 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.840 would classify as paranohite. Um. And honestly, again we don't 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.920 know all the information. It maybe that perhaps McAfee is 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.280 a very eccentric but otherwise mostly innocent. First and now 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.560 it's true that his personal life also has some other complications. 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.120 Apparently he has several people living at that compound with him, 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:13.719 including several young women with whom he often has sexual relations, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.480 and including one who is identified over and over as 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.480 a seventeen year old girlfriend. But then there are other women, uh, 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.840 and and at that compound as well, and so I 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.680 mean they're they're definitely. So it's kind of this weird, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.320 larger than life, odd David Lynch sort of story thing. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.600 Like if I saw this enough film, I would think 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.359 the Cohen Brothers made it. Yeah, it's just it's just 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.280 so weird when you think of somebody who has gone 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.800 down in history as coming up with a very successful 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:51.120 tech product. Um. You know, you you don't typically think 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.760 of that. You think of somebody like Jobs or Gates 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.639 or um, maybe Larry Ellison. Uh, you know some some 0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.560 people who they've got lots of money, they live a 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.440 jet setter's lifestyle. Maybe maybe not um, but you don't 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.480 really typically think of you know, when you hear something like, well, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.760 John McAfee is a person of interest in this murder case, 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:15.959 and really that's just strange. But but you know the 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.000 reason why we wanted to do this podcast was not 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.760 just to talk about about McAfee, although that was you know, 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.400 the main, the main focus, but also to talk about 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:28.360 some other people in technology who have displayed odd traits. Well, yeah, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.000 that was that was the second thing that came to 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.560 my mind was you know, well he's not alone. I 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.160 mean I was thinking specifically when I talked to Jonathan 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.919 about this about a man named Hans Reiser, who also 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.840 whom I read about and wired, uh several years ago, um, 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:49.480 when he was at that point accused of murdering his wife. Um. 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.520 And uh, it was just strange to me because he was, 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.320 Um he's known for UM, he's not as famous as 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:01.720 as uh John McAfee would be, but he is known 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.200 for his riser f s. It's a file system for 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:10.400 for computers to store files and apparently is extremely efficient, Um, 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.360 very popular among among a certain crowd, very very popular 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:19.280 in various Linux distributions. Yes, yes, Um. And then you know, 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.719 and here again I'm going wait this, this person who's 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:27.320 you know, famous within a certain tech community is um, 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.440 you know it's it's wanted for murder. This is so strange. Yeah. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:35.359 He married a woman named Nina Sharonova. Uh and they 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.160 met in Russia, I believe so that and that has 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.720 raised questions as to you know, was that an arranged 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.479 marriage kind of thing? But whether that is or not, 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.919 she turned up missing and uh, eventually I know it's 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.119 an odd, odd phrase, right. Uh, But she turned up 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:59.679 missing and then her body was found, and eventually Hans 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.240 rise Or was taken into custody, and uh, he was tried, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:09.240 he was convicted. He ended up um getting a Originally 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.840 he was tried under first degree murder, but it was 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:18.440 reduced to second degree murder in a plea deal. But yeah, 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:22.400 that's that goes beyond being odd, I would say. Uh. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:27.000 But yeah, certainly an example of someone who created something 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.360 very influential in technology who ended up having some very 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.400 severe problems. Well, he had, um, he had claimed that 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.640 she had left the country and gone back to Russia, 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.560 and um, you know I had there was nothing, nothing 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.800 there untowards of course, UM, the police had, well they 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:46.840 didn't have the body. They didn't know, you know, for sure, 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:51.320 whether she was missing or or dead. And um they 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.960 found his car with um, some bloodstains of hers in it, 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.600 um and an inch of water on the floorboard apparently. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.199 And he was trying to explain how he you know, 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.960 tried to clean out his car with water and how 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.000 he was surprised to find out that card manufacturers don't 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:10.719 put a hole in the floor so that water will 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:13.040 drain out and all sorts of things apparently that made 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:15.200 the jury shake their heads. And then finally he just said, 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.879 you know, look, this is what happened. Um, but it's 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.280 just very very thing, very very weird thing. I should say, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.639 I meant I left out a word there um to 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.600 to see something like that happen, and uh, you know 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.920 it's strange. If you want to hear about some more 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:33.879 here do some more eccentric ones. These are not nearly 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:40.280 as grim so our buddy Tesla. Oh yes, Nikola, Tesla, 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.639 Internet darling Tesla. You guys love Tesla. I just have 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.640 to say, whenever we talk about Tesla, we get lots 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:52.080 of emails and messages. Yes, he's right behind Chris his 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:55.639 picture anyway, Um Tesla. Yeah, one of those guys that 0:23:55.720 --> 0:24:00.520 everyone on the internet seems to adore. Um. Also kind 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:05.240 of an odd fellow. Had a lot of compulsions that 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.840 he would um, he would bow to all the time. 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.639 One of them was an obsession with the number three. 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:15.080 Apparently he made it a habit that before going into 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.000 a building, he would walk around the block three times 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:22.200 before entering. I've read reports that he would always have 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:27.000 stacks of three stacks of napkins, and the napkins had 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:31.760 to be in a number that's divisible by three, although 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:35.720 the number has changed depending upon which sours I was reading. 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.879 There was one that's at nine and one that's at eighteen. Uh. 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:45.000 But you know, he had anything that was that had 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:46.639 the number three, and that that was something that was 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:48.639 very important to him. He wanted to stay in hotel 0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.159 rooms that are only the room number need to be 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:54.120 divisible by three. Uh. And he lived in a hotel. 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.960 He didn't, you know, have an apartment or a house 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.000 or yeah. He Uh. He also was a germophoe and um, 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:03.879 he hated the thought of anything dirty. He didn't you know, 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:09.280 he was extremely uh obsessed with cleantliness. Not necessarily a 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:11.320 bad thing until it goes a little too far. He 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:18.320 apparently hated jewelry and round the objects. Grant if you're 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.040 if you're creating a tesla coil, round up objects might 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:25.200