1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Lava for Good and Stand Together Music Present The War 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, its impact, 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: its failures, and the people offering a better path forward. 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: Hey that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: sound smart, We may even make some good points, but 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we're not medical professional. 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 3: Okay. 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax, 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 2: consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans. 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 4: Got it, Clayton, it's book report time. 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we at the end, man, Yeah, this group project, 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: we pulled it together. 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 17 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 5: It was an amazing season and a lot of traveling 18 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 5: and meeting people where they were. Yeah, that was kind 19 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 5: of the of the season. 20 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, man, way to bring that around. Yeah, we 21 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: met people definitely where they were. 22 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think nobody met us halfway. 23 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: Now we met We might have met each other halfway 24 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 2: when we were going. 25 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 5: Like yeah, yeah, what was some of the your favorite 26 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 5: moments lessons something that you took away? 27 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 3: Oh, man, I think. 28 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: Some of the lessons that I definitely took away is 29 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: the cannabis industry in the weed business, right being two 30 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 2: separate things that operate off each other. 31 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 5: You know, the you know, regular market, the legal market 32 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 5: versus the black and the gray market, where because of 33 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 5: prohibition still because our federal government still schedules this as 34 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 5: a Schedule one drug, you know, you still have that 35 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 5: proliferation because you know, local laws and state laws cap 36 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 5: this market and make it a second class industry. You 37 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 5: allow for people that were you know, selling illegally you know, 38 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 5: quote unquote you know, through the laws and system to 39 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 5: continue to happen. The thing that you are trying to prevent, 40 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 5: you are allowing to thrive because of these things. And 41 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 5: it's just something we saw every single time, and every 42 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 5: single one of our conversations was that part where it 43 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 5: was like, if it was only this, you could only 44 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 5: just put some money in a bank, if you can 45 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 5: only just like say like hey, and all the great 46 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 5: stuff that we have seen with legalization, the fact that 47 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 5: you can literally go into places and actually get t 48 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 5: I mean, so many people have access to it that 49 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 5: just did not before, and that's. 50 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 4: An amazing thing. 51 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 5: But we're still seeing so much of the same stuff 52 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 5: happened because of prohibition. Like we've said, like you know, 53 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 5: the fact that it is a second class industry, the 54 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 5: fact that you know. 55 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 4: It's a cash business. 56 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 5: So now people have to treat it in a different 57 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 5: way and it makes them more susceptible to being you know, 58 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 5: crimer and actually getting you know, it's all these things 59 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 5: that are happening, and we just need to kind of 60 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 5: look at that where hey, we haven't crossed the finish 61 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 5: line just yet. 62 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: It's still a lot of work to be done. 63 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, And just kind of another takeaway I had from 64 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 5: the season, you know, kind of getting more on the 65 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 5: treatment and the things that we're seeing with psilocybin, and 66 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 5: you know, we talked a little bit about it last 67 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 5: you know season with you know, from the medical side, 68 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 5: from with on with Maps and you know, if if 69 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 5: you really want to look at some of the great 70 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 5: work that's going on with psilocybin research, with md m 71 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 5: A research just treating you know, addiction and PTSD and 72 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 5: all this stuff, go to Maps and see what they're doing. 73 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 5: We're seeing great progress there, but again, you know, the 74 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 5: FDA denies them from being you know, a treatment after 75 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 5: even seeing you know, the results that we've seen of. 76 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: Seeing people not having PTSD or AMIA requirements, not having 77 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: to deal with depression. 78 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 4: And it's it's it's pretty remarkable. 79 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 5: So we're seeing that one step forward kind of two 80 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 5: steps back, but they are taking we are taking steps 81 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 5: in the fact that we had such a diverse array 82 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 5: of people come on and talk about their own all. 83 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: Walks yeah, of life, all different backgrounds, all different stories, 84 00:03:58,960 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: all different. 85 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 5: Paths, right exactly, all different paths, and you could genuinely 86 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 5: hear their excitement and enthusiasm because these are people that 87 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 5: went through struggles and they almost want it. It's like 88 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 5: someone that's like, you know, got baptized just wants to scream. 89 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 5: You know, it's like singing from the mountaintop that like, hey, 90 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 5: other people that are hurting like me, like this could 91 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 5: be a solution. And you can hear like the excitement 92 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 5: and then also the the sadness from you know, someone 93 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 5: like Brent who's thinking of other people that didn't get 94 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: the chance to maybe do things, or you know, it's 95 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 5: just all these It was just a really kind of rollercoaster. 96 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 97 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of a trip. 98 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definitely a trip. Yeah. 99 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: In one also, Liz Karamus talking about CBD rain, yeah, 100 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: and the inflammation being able to be decreased by some 101 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: of these things, and yeah, man, all of that was interesting. 102 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 5: You know, military people don't like to go out on 103 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 5: a limb that often and kind of shout things. But 104 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 5: the people that are leading this a lot are you know, 105 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 5: not only former but active military members. 106 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: When they reel, they can speak up. 107 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 5: You know, Liz said it it's going to have to 108 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 5: come from the officers and the officer class to kind 109 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 5: of build that up. And I think it's something that's 110 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 5: gonna need to occur, Like you can't deny some of 111 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 5: these results at some point. And I just hope in 112 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 5: the next you know, year, so there is some movement 113 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 5: in you know a little bit at the federal level 114 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 5: to allow for the VA to do a little bit 115 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 5: more testing, a little bit more research, a little bit 116 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 5: more conversations that still hasn't passed. 117 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: You know. 118 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 4: It's these types of things, so. 119 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 5: Solely but surely hopefully the research will kind of catch 120 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 5: up to our institutions. It takes a while sometimes, you know, 121 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 5: they're like the you know, setting their ways cross the 122 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 5: old man. 123 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: And then also, you know, is a lot of undoing. 124 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: It's a lot of unlearning that people have to do 125 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: because that's caused by the War on drug Yeah, they 126 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 2: painted it in there's light and it's hard to you know, 127 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: get get people to see it in another way. 128 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, and understanding that, you know, the skeptics aren't just 129 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 5: folks that are just saying this because they don't like 130 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 5: drugs or saying it's you know, it's people that dealt 131 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 5: with addiction. You know, with doctor Brent Smith who said, 132 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,559 Speaker 5: you know, hey, it feels weird to me, like coming 133 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 5: from a place of addiction to think that this can 134 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 5: be helpful in that way when it's so And I 135 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 5: get that, and you know, but he still said, you know, 136 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 5: I'm open to these things. And I think that's again 137 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 5: we just have to be honest and open. That's another 138 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 5: thread line through this, just let's be honest about both 139 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 5: sides of everything. And I'm you know, that was a 140 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 5: big takeaway for me as well. With the therapeutists on 141 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 5: psychedelics and things like that. Again, it's kind of this 142 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 5: dominant that has to topple at the at the top, 143 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 5: at the tippy top too, at the federal government to 144 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 5: kind of let this go where we have these restrictions 145 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 5: like in the tax code that now like people can't 146 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 5: do you know, banking the way that they they're able to, 147 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 5: and you know, to allow for cannabis industry to thrive, 148 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 5: and you know, to have like research being stymied and 149 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 5: not allow for you know, psilocybin or MDMA to be 150 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 5: used as treatment you get into like you know, it 151 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 5: just takes all these big haunches. Then that's when insurance come. 152 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 5: You know, think about that, and we talked about that 153 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,679 Speaker 5: so much with like veterans they can get how much 154 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 5: antidepressants and opi it's off of there, but they're not 155 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 5: able to get this because it can't be insured right now. 156 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 5: And so it's all these little things that hopefully will 157 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 5: start to slide away. And that's that's my hope for 158 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 5: the next year and five years. And yeah, we'll probably 159 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 5: be on season. 160 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 4: Thirty five drugs. 161 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think we'll be closer because I know 162 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 2: we often talk about it's one step forward, two steps back. 163 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: What would you give this year? 164 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: Would you give it a step forward or would you 165 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: give it two back? 166 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 5: I'd say it was I'll do a boxing analogy where 167 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: I think it's one of those early rounds in a 168 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 5: big match, and both everyone's kind of feeling each other. Okay, 169 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 5: presidential election going. 170 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: On, only so much you can do there. 171 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, when things get on the ballot with the presidential election, 172 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 5: it warps who's kind of voting, who's not, how much 173 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 5: attention those. 174 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 4: Issues get there, Just keep voting, right. 175 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 5: It just wasn't like a lot of stuff going on, 176 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 5: and that kind of happens in transition. But I do 177 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 5: think that fact that both parties have signaled at the 178 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 5: top of their level. You know, President Trump came out 179 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 5: and said he was going to vote for Amendment three 180 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 5: in Florida, which was, you know, going to legalize cannabis there, 181 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 5: and you know him and you know Vice President Vance 182 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 5: have both set you know, it kind of comes from 183 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 5: a place of we're throwing people in prison for something 184 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 5: that other people can profit from and this piecemeal thing 185 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 5: where you can go in one place another. I mean, 186 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 5: those are the things that he's saying, and it's a 187 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 5: kind of a noe duh, like it just doesn't make sense. 188 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 5: And so, you know, whatever you think of either side, 189 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 5: we're not trying to get publically here. It's just it's 190 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 5: very promising to hear that it's just never been that way. 191 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 5: And I think, you know, once you have a tipping 192 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 5: point a lot of this stuff, it can it can 193 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 5: start to tumble pretty quick. 194 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: Party's looking at it in a similar fashion, not maybe 195 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: the exact same view, but yeah, realizing and trying to 196 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: correct the course that we're going. 197 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 198 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 199 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 5: And the other thing to remember is like, not all 200 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 5: progress is always good progress, like we've seen, like you 201 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 5: have to have these things set up, you have to 202 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 5: be mindful of what all these causes and consequences can have, 203 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 5: and so the job's not done. Don't turn a blind 204 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 5: eye once you vote, like, understand what's happening in your community, 205 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 5: what's going on, how are these licenses getting divvied out. 206 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 4: All this type of stuff. There's just a lot lot. 207 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: Lots of the handle. 208 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: Okay, man, you know I got to come to you 209 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: for the call to action? Was the play? Was the plan? 210 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: If we're in a huddle, what do people need to do? 211 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: Man? While you've got them listening. 212 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 5: I think you know, sometimes we're just like, you know, 213 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 5: call your local congressmen, and that's all well and good, 214 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 5: but there are like I think, particularly with this issue, 215 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 5: you know, if things don't feel like overwhelming on other things, 216 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 5: because there obviously is policy stuff and you should and 217 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 5: you should be educated on this, and a lot of 218 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 5: stuff happens local, So your council meetings and all these 219 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 5: those are things that really matter a lot as well, 220 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 5: and so you should be mindful of what we need 221 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 5: to do at the federal level. Demand these things, but 222 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 5: really be honest and what's going on in your community 223 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 5: and how that's operating. But even getting closer to it, 224 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 5: like if you know your friend or family struggling with 225 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 5: something or suffering, you know, talk to them about you know, 226 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 5: some of this or share these experiences. Maybe it's like, hey, 227 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 5: I know you like Shine Down, I know you like Brothers, 228 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 5: I know you like Benny the Butch. Like listen to 229 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 5: what they're saying or like something like that maybe this 230 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 5: will help or some other information to give them, Like 231 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 5: you can actually really mean a lot to like your 232 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 5: small area and maybe you're influential on some folks around 233 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 5: you that could look up to you and saying like oh, hey, 234 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 5: this person's being you know, open and honest about their 235 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 5: experiences or what they heard. It's it can really mean 236 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 5: a lot. Like we saw that like it may have 237 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 5: saved you know, John Osborne's friend's life, having that conversation. 238 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 4: It done costs anything. 239 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 5: So that's you know, it's always like these are the laws, 240 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 5: these are the things, we've talked about them all year, 241 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 5: but like that could have a profound impact just kind 242 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 5: of having the discussions. And I know I am and 243 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 5: I've been even with people that's a little uncomfortable, you know, 244 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 5: with the old man, and. 245 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: Uh yeah, that can always be cop. 246 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think a lot of 247 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: times people throw their hands up like what can I do? 248 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: What can be done? And I think that's a very 249 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: actionable thing. It really done is the people you're around, 250 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: listening to them, offering them the resources that works for 251 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: you are what you found out there that may be 252 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: able to provide them insight. Not saying it's gonna be relief, 253 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: not saying it's gonna be the answer, not gonna say 254 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: that it's gonna work, but looking at stuff a different way, 255 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: hearing it from somebody who's respected, hearing it from somebody 256 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: who's in a field where they experience the very thing 257 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: that you're going through. That all can help. Man, So 258 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: be the change you know that you want to. 259 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: See and just. 260 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: When it does, like I said before, when it doesn't 261 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: cost nothing that yeah, you know what I'm saying, do 262 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: that if this person, if listening to this person is 263 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: going to be beneficial to them, if you got the time, why. 264 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: Would you not do that? 265 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 4: Exactly? 266 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know these really are They're not even like 267 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 5: criminal justice issues. This is about like people's health. These 268 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 5: are like the issues that people pain, pain, health, mental health. Yeah, 269 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 5: just dealing with trauma and suffering. I mean, these are 270 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 5: the things that we talk about all day, every day, 271 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 5: and all we're saying is these are potential paths to 272 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 5: help with these types of things to have a better 273 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 5: health and overall well being. Because at the end of 274 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 5: the day, what we're doing right now, I don't think 275 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 5: anyone can say this is working. So let's just like 276 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 5: take a step back, cause I feel like a lot 277 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 5: of the time, the fighting the war on drugs, you're 278 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 5: on the defense of quite a bit, and so it 279 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 5: is kind of like flipping around, what are we defending. 280 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 5: More people are homeless and suffering from substance abuse disorders, 281 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 5: then more than ever, we're more people are dying from 282 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 5: overdose than ever. Drugs are cheaper, and stronger than ever. 283 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 5: What are you defending right now? At the very least, 284 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 5: can we have conversations about some of these other things 285 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 5: that are going on. Suicide race for veterans are skyrocketing, 286 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 5: Like can we have a conversation? 287 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: Right? 288 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: That's all we're saying. 289 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: Don't talk about what's convenient to your point, Yes, be 290 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: honest and talk about these things in their totality exactly. 291 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's about giving those options and not making it 292 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 5: some risky proposition to am I being a criminal or 293 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: being something weird or trying to help myself? 294 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people struggle with that. 295 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: One of the things that I think we really hammered 296 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: home on this season was the best people to talk 297 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 2: about these situations are the people that's closest to us, right, 298 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: And I mean we've got countless examples of that this season. 299 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 300 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 4: John Osborne, Yeah, exactly. 301 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: Stopping his friend from a planned suicide, just saying, hey, man, 302 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: maybe try this. 303 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 304 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: Brent Smith, his manager, stepping in at a time where 305 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: you know, he could have been a sleazy manager, but 306 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: he saw something and was like, no, let's do this, 307 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: Let's handle this the right way. And so it's a 308 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: concerted effort. It's a community effort. You have to be 309 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: there for your people, and your people have to be 310 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: there for you. And that's the only way I think 311 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: this works. I think that's how we're supposed to live 312 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: as a society. I agree, that's how we maximize living 313 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: in this crazy world we live in. 314 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, and if you want to be active on the 315 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 5: policy side and really get informed, I mean, the biggest 316 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 5: dominoes are still at the federal level, and until they 317 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 5: speak on this and kind of allow for you know, 318 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 5: this enterprise to continue and to understand it's going to 319 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 5: continue to be this way, and so descheduling up there, 320 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 5: allowing for banks to be allowed to you know, work 321 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 5: with the industry and doing all these things, that's what 322 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 5: it's going to take. Until then, you're always going to 323 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 5: have that maybe we're about to do something elide because 324 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 5: technically you are know what your representative's thoughts are, like 325 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 5: email them, call them, like they do respond and like 326 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 5: I've worked in offices when a lot of people ask 327 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 5: about something, they have to say so you yeah, and 328 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 5: so it really does matter, and that's what it's going 329 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 5: to take to really kind of see all these things, 330 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 5: you know, come to fruition. And so there's a lot 331 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 5: of work still at the local and state, but if 332 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 5: you get that one tipping point to start to come down, 333 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 5: it'd be incredibly impactful and we would see a lot 334 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 5: of positive benefits and a lot of the complications that 335 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 5: we see with this kind of piecemeal system. Kind of 336 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 5: go away and share those stories. 337 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 3: Use this podcast. 338 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, use your personal experience if you got it, But 339 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: if you don't, you got a resource right here with. 340 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 5: Us, because stories matter, and it brings a face to 341 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 5: it when you're just kind of saying, you know, hey, 342 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 5: these are the statistics and all these things. 343 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 4: You know, it makes it real. It really does. 344 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: Sometimes the language we use it just dehumanizes people and 345 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: it quantifies them. It makes them a thing and not 346 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: a person, and it's hard to separate the person from 347 00:15:59,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: a person. 348 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 4: Story agreed. 349 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: Anybody that's skeptical or not sure where it's going. If 350 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: you didn't if you can't look at some of these 351 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: studies with psilocybin and what they're doing with PTSD and veterans, 352 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: if you can't look at lizit story about the brain 353 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: decreasing inflammation, if you can't listen to John Osborne talk 354 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: about the neuroplasticity and if I think that's the biggest 355 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: takeaway is these things are working for some people. You know, 356 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: these things are beneficial to some people. So what knowledge 357 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: do you have that's making you push back against the 358 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: information that's out there. 359 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, just be a little bit more understanding of other 360 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 5: people's stories and how that they came to it, and 361 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 5: not think that it's some excuse just to get high. 362 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 5: It's actually medicine is actually trying to help other people. 363 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 5: So even if you're not going to go down a 364 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 5: path of this or even look at it, just be 365 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 5: more ethetic and understanding of other people's you know, successes 366 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 5: or benefits that they've had from some things that we 367 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 5: talked about. 368 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, we talked to a lot of skeptics that kind. 369 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 5: Of when yeah and experiment and did something else or 370 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 5: have been more open about it. And I think that's 371 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 5: really important to show that you. 372 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 2: Got to be hoping, Hey, this has been great. Yeah, 373 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 2: great season. I hope you all, you know, benefited from this. 374 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 2: I hope these stories, you know, allow you to make 375 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: an impact on the people that you care about, the 376 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: people around you. 377 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 5: We appreciated season two. Thank you all again for listening. 378 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 5: I'm Greg Laude. 379 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 2: And I'm Clayton English and this has been The War 380 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: on Drugs podcast Season two, Take. 381 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: Care the War on Drugs is a production of Lava 382 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: for Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal 383 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: Company Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their 384 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: teams with proven change makers to co create solutions to 385 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: some of the most pressing issues in our country, including 386 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: criminal justice, reform, addiction, recover mental health, education, free speech, 387 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: and ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether 388 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: Music dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good 389 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook and threads at Lava for Good. You 390 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: can follow Clayton English on Instagram, n X at Clayton English, 391 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: and you can follow Greig Laude on Instagram and on 392 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: X at Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler, 393 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: Kevin Wartis, and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker, Zak 394 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: Huffman and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten, Audio 395 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: talent booking by Dan Resnik res Entertainment Head of Marketing 396 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: and Operations, Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media Director, Ismadi Gudarama, Social 397 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: media manager Sarah Gibbons and art director Andrew Nelson.