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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, July thirty, first,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am

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Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm

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Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters

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Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Tatiana Siegel about her profile of the

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Speaker 1: actor who has spent more time in Superman's blue tights

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Speaker 1: than any other. Dean Kine and Brian Steinberg gives us

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Speaker 1: an update on where upfront advertising sales stand for the

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Speaker 1: major conglomerates. The biggest draw for blurb buyers, according to Brian,

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Speaker 1: is sports, sports, and more sports. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to that, here are a few headlines just in this

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Speaker 1: morning that you need to know. Comcast's second quarter results

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Speaker 1: reflected the sun in advertising and the drip drip drip

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Speaker 1: of cord cutting.

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Speaker 2: Profit.

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Speaker 1: However, got a boost from the four hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: million dollar check that Disney wrote to Comcast earlier this

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Speaker 1: year to complete the buy out of Hulu. Wednesday had

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Speaker 1: to be a rough day at Warner Brothers. The studio

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Speaker 1: laid off fifty two people in the motion picture group.

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Speaker 1: Most of the cuts came in marketing, production, strategy, operations,

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Speaker 1: and the Theater Ventures division. Netflix renewed animated comedy Long

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Speaker 1: Story Short for season two. They must be high on

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Speaker 1: the show, given that season one doesn't premiere until August

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Speaker 1: twenty second. It's from BoJack Horseman creator Rafael Bob Waksburg.

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Speaker 1: Now we turn to conversations with Variety journalists about news

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Speaker 1: and trends in show business. Next up, Tatiana Siegeal, Variety's

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Speaker 1: executive editor of Film and Media, details her profile of

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Speaker 1: Dean Kine and why she wanted to talk with the

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Speaker 1: Trump loving star of Lois and Clark. Tatiana Siegel, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today on a hot

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Speaker 1: day in New York City.

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Speaker 3: Pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: Tatiana, you have a really compelling profile in this week's

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Speaker 1: issue on actor Dean kan What sparked your interest in

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Speaker 1: checking in with him?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: Basically, Superman is in the zeitgeist right now this summer.

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Speaker 3: It's the summer of Superman, and only eight actors have

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Speaker 3: appeared as the Man of Steel over the years in

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Speaker 3: live action films and TV series. So I did a

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Speaker 3: little research and I said, well, Dean Kane actually has

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Speaker 3: probably been in the suit more than anyone else, with

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Speaker 3: the exception of Tom Welling, who starred in Smallville and

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Speaker 3: that ran for ten seasons. The original Superman George Reeves,

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Speaker 3: he was in slightly more episodes than Dean Kin. I

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Speaker 3: think it was one hundred and four to eighty seven,

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Speaker 3: but Dean Kane means Lois and Clark ran for forty

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Speaker 3: six minutes versus thirty minutes for the George Reeds Superman.

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Speaker 3: So I thought to myself, this is somebody who is

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Speaker 3: clearly vocal about his politics as a Trump supporter, and

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Speaker 3: also has this deep knowledge of the character. He might

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Speaker 3: make a really good interview.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Los, Okay, I've been rehearsing this for months.

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Speaker 2: Let's see if I can get it right.

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Speaker 4: I know this is a shock, and I wanted to

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Speaker 4: be the one to tell you so that you could

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Speaker 4: understand how hard this has been for me, how I've

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Speaker 4: carried this secret by myself, and how long I have

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Speaker 4: wanted to tell you. But when I decided to become Superman,

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Speaker 4: I became a target.

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Speaker 3: And so anybody close to you became a target.

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Speaker 5: And it just got more complicated when you realized.

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Speaker 4: You, which was about two minutes after I met you.

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Speaker 1: I love that you brought data to it. You crunch

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Speaker 1: the numbers on time in the suit. I also appreciate

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Speaker 1: that you went into that interview with a very specific question,

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Speaker 1: not to grill him on his personal politics, but to

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Speaker 1: talk to him about how him being vocal about his

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Speaker 1: support of MAGA and President Trump, which is definitely not

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Speaker 1: the norm, not the conventional wisdom in Hollywood or New York,

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Speaker 1: in the kind of the hotbeds of the business, how

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Speaker 1: just that stance has affected his career as an actor,

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Speaker 1: as a personality in our business. Did you find him

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Speaker 1: to be earnestly engaging with you in talking about exactly that.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, he was very earnest and candid. He also has

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Speaker 3: a lot of confidence and doesn't really seem to worry

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Speaker 3: about will I be a pariah in Hollywood for being

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Speaker 3: a Trump supporter. The people that I called for secondary voices,

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Speaker 3: like Greg Burlante, they got right on the phone. Dean

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Speaker 3: was very eager to talk about playing gay in the

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Speaker 3: two thousand romantic comedy The Broken Hearts Club, which was

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Speaker 3: Greg Burlanti's first movie. He said he loved playing gay

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Speaker 3: and he did it again in another movie. And what

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Speaker 3: Greg mentioned that I found really interesting is like the

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Speaker 3: context of the times is like nobody wanted to play

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Speaker 3: gay back then.

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Speaker 1: Especially a rising star leading man. That was not the

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Speaker 1: move that your agent would have suggested. First.

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Speaker 3: Dean was kind of like, I didn't understand the fuss

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Speaker 3: then or now. As somebody on his team said, well,

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Speaker 3: people might think you're gay in real life, and he said, well,

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Speaker 3: then I've done my job.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that he is very direct about is that

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Speaker 1: he experienced in his time on Lois and Clark, in

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Speaker 1: his time in The Tights, that he experienced some significant

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Speaker 1: sexual harassment.

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Speaker 3: That is true, and he talked about it, but only

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Speaker 3: very briefly and would not identify the person and said

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Speaker 3: he didn't want to comment any further on the matter.

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Speaker 3: But there had always been rumblings. Dean seemed like somebody

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Speaker 3: who was pretty straightforward, straight shooter and did not really

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Speaker 3: indulge in a lot of oh woe is me kind

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Speaker 3: of talk. It was just like, yeah, this happened, and

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Speaker 3: I'm going to move on. And I think he moved

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Speaker 3: on at the time, and he moved on in the

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Speaker 3: interview with me.

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Speaker 1: Another interesting thing that I didn't fully appreciate is that

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Speaker 1: he has tapped into this very vibrant strain of independent

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Speaker 1: production that has done far outside of La New York

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Speaker 1: and Chicago, independently produced and financed faith based movies that

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Speaker 1: run on certain channels, that sometimes even do smaller circuits

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Speaker 1: in sort of Bible belt markets. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: he's really invested as a producer, director, star of some

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Speaker 1: of these films.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it's sort of a parallel universe that operates

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Speaker 3: right near Hollywood, but not quite in Hollywood. It's becoming

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Speaker 3: more and more of an economic force if you look

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Speaker 3: at the chosen these things. So it's not to be dismissed.

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Speaker 3: He said that he loves making these movies and he's

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Speaker 3: made sixteen of them now because he feels like they

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Speaker 3: showcase strong family cohesion, something that is really pushing strong

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Speaker 3: positive messages and we are in a dark time.

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Speaker 1: From your story, you get the sense that he really

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Speaker 1: means this isn't it isn't stick for him. The other

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Speaker 1: big takeaway is that he is somebody who also has

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Speaker 1: a good sense of humor about himself and his place

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Speaker 1: in the pantheon, and there is no getting around it.

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Speaker 1: Once you play Superman, there is always some part of

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Speaker 1: you that is going to be identified with Superman. Well,

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Speaker 1: this whole process must have also been good research for you,

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Speaker 1: cause know you are working away away on a book

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Speaker 1: about the history of DC Studios in Hollywood. We will

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Speaker 1: definitely check in with you at the time that that

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Speaker 1: book is ready, because very interested to get your perspective

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Speaker 1: on the long arc of DC in Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: And it's a long arc, yes, and a book coming

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Speaker 3: soon in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Tatiana, appreciate it. Now Brian Steinberg brings us

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Speaker 1: up to speed on the big picture of TV advertising sales. Disney, NBC,

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Speaker 1: Universal and other heavyweights have wrapped up the advanced advertising

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Speaker 1: sales process conducted every year under the broad heading of

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Speaker 1: upfront sales. Brian Steinberg, thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Nobody covers the upfront sales process like you. You've been

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Speaker 1: busy the last couple of days. Tell me what's the

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Speaker 1: temperature of the market this year.

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Speaker 5: It's surprisingly upbeat because I think people were afraid the

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Speaker 5: tariffs and the trunk transition. We're going to pass a pall.

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Speaker 5: But what we're seeing is actually I think we're seeing

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Speaker 5: upturns of dollars, most of them for sports, the NFL,

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Speaker 5: Super Bowl, Winter Olympics, and World Cup.

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Speaker 1: That tax back to the oldest principle of TV advertising, right,

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Speaker 1: get me a big group at the same time, which

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Speaker 1: is counter to the trends in the business over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: That's right. It's in the streaming era.

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Speaker 5: It's much harder to find big audiences all watching the

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Speaker 5: same thing at the same time. That's what your big

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Speaker 5: average hiders like Pizza Hutt and McDonald's and Nikeness they want.

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Speaker 5: It's harder to make a dollar after advertising as you're

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Speaker 5: trying to find your consumer streaming this year and streaming

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Speaker 5: that there. So sports and other live events that award

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Speaker 5: shows and other kids of specials are what really drive

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Speaker 5: currency now and drive interest.

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Speaker 1: We know that the linear advertising market has been weak

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Speaker 1: within the world of sports. Are dollars growing, Dollars are going.

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Speaker 5: We're seeing more dollars come in a quite of We've

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Speaker 5: had Fox, NBC, and Disney all announced their results. Others

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Speaker 5: are so were so waiting for in every report, they

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Speaker 5: say that the money can then to sports is going up.

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Speaker 2: What's really happening here?

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Speaker 5: A lot of companies that they wouldn't spend on sports

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Speaker 5: proper and gamble and other something that were more towards

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Speaker 5: female and family consumers are saying, gee, I need to

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Speaker 5: reach audiences. Where can I do it for a good

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Speaker 5: price and your reasonable amount of money?

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Speaker 2: Sports is it. That's where you get the big audiences.

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Speaker 5: So even companies that weren't putting money into baseball and

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Speaker 5: football are doing so now and then because they know

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Speaker 5: they need to reach large numbers all at once.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty six is going to be a big year.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have the Winter Olympics across NBC universal platforms.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have the World Cup on Fox and Telemundo.

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Speaker 1: Outside of the sports realm, in the more entertainment side,

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Speaker 1: live events, big, flashy spectacles are I would imagine are

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Speaker 1: also pretty attractive in this climate.

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Speaker 5: MBC is doing the tenniversary of the network this year.

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Speaker 5: They've got last year they did NBC's SNL fifty anniversary.

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Speaker 5: They create, you know, landmark milestones and events that you

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Speaker 5: can take it into You saw can do a Jaws

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Speaker 5: anniversary a few weekends ago. Further sum, they're trying to

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Speaker 5: create things that people can gravitate to celebrate, and some

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Speaker 5: of the stouts, well, I think you're going seeing more

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Speaker 5: of that. I do think it's getting harder and harder

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Speaker 5: to generate the same ad without sports. You saw Disney

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Speaker 5: this week announced they were flat. In other words, they

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Speaker 5: had the same amountline of this is into last year

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Speaker 5: sports went off, but the overall number was concurring, which

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Speaker 5: means they didn't increase their dollars over last year.

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Speaker 1: Flat is hard when Disney, after so much investment in streaming,

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Speaker 1: Disney needs to see growth. I think there's such intense

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Speaker 1: business reporting on the upfront that the big public companies

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Speaker 1: have been forced to put out the flag and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: we've drawn the curtain and give some guidance on their

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Speaker 1: upfront haul because it is so material to their results.

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Speaker 1: Disney has done that. Who else has kind of has

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Speaker 1: reached that point where they're saying, yep, we're done with

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Speaker 1: the upfront.

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Speaker 5: We've had NBC, Fox, and Disney all put out releases,

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Speaker 5: which is unusual time years ago. You had to kind

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Speaker 5: of figured out for yourself they would give some guidance

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Speaker 5: for someone, but they wouldn't actually confirm it watch the

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Speaker 5: Blue Moon. They would put an SEC filing out or

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Speaker 5: something like that. Universion talk about on their earnings call,

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Speaker 5: they're still negotiating. We've heard Netflix say things are robus

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Speaker 5: or up on the up stint on their earnings call,

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Speaker 5: but nothing more formal.

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Speaker 2: So we're shilling in paramount.

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Speaker 5: And for Warner, I think Warner, we ca all agree,

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Speaker 5: faces more headwinds.

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Speaker 2: They've lost their NBA right.

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Speaker 1: No question that this is the ripple effects of those

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Speaker 1: NBA changes are now are now being felt. Amazon and Netflix,

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Speaker 1: How are both of these companies impacting the ad market

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Speaker 1: this time around? They certainly have a lot of heft

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Speaker 1: and a lot of inventory, a.

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Speaker 5: Lot inventory if they put dumped a whole bunch of

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Speaker 5: new inventory on the mart, which has caused rates for

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Speaker 5: streaming to go down, especially last year, big rollbacks in

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Speaker 5: streaming rates because of the new supply. I think Netflix

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Speaker 5: and Amazon have had to learn some lessons. They came

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Speaker 5: in very hot, devanding very aggressive upticks and rates. They

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Speaker 5: had to learn that who says the market here is

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Speaker 5: not the media seller but the person who's buying the

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Speaker 5: ad time Apple, Procter and Gamble, Unilever. It's their money,

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Speaker 5: not Netflix at Amazon until they agree to spend it,

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Speaker 5: So if their rates aren't great, they won't be spending.

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Speaker 1: It would seem Brian that every upfront conversation has to

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Speaker 1: end with a question about the upfront process itself. Let

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Speaker 1: me ask you specifically, do you see real signs that

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Speaker 1: AI and automation in maybe constant auction of ad time

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Speaker 1: every nanosecond. Do you see any indication that that is

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Speaker 1: going to change the work of the media buyers that

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Speaker 1: are schooling the new entrants on how the business is done.

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Speaker 5: There's no question that more ad time is being bought

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Speaker 5: by algorithms. And it's not just the upfront there's the

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Speaker 5: twenty four seven year round market for ad time. Because

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Speaker 5: streaming there's more stuff to come, worry about and figure out.

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Speaker 5: But I think this process still goes on people clearly

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Speaker 5: so like I believe that by ad time cheaper and

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Speaker 5: you mon't get it later on, and that's why this

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Speaker 5: process is still around, especially with Super Bowl and big

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Speaker 5: sporting events still in the office. I think when McDonald's

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Speaker 5: and prompters say they don't want to do it anymore,

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Speaker 5: it will stop very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Here we are at the end of July, talking about

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Speaker 1: where things stand in You and I both remember the

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Speaker 1: go go nineties when they says for the big networks

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Speaker 1: would be wrapped up in forty eight seventy two hours.

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Speaker 1: Then let me ask you, was it really done in

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Speaker 1: that seventy two hour in a crazy rush or was

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Speaker 1: that just for show because there was so much money

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Speaker 1: slashing around that everybody figured out, we'll figure it out.

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Speaker 5: I remember in those times, really they're buying primetime TV.

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Speaker 5: That was the biggest thing you could buy, and only

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Speaker 5: so much of it. There wasn't like primetime now as anytime.

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Speaker 1: At the risk of sounding like Archie Bunker, those were

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Speaker 1: the days. Thank you, Brian, Thank you. As we close

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Speaker 1: out today's episode, here are a few things we're watching for.

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Speaker 1: Paramount Global reports it's second quarter earnings after market closed today.

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Speaker 1: We may get some updates on the sky Dance Media

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Speaker 1: merger process. Stay close to Variety dot com for all

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Speaker 1: the news. Michael Gracie, the director of the Greatest Showman,

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Speaker 1: is planning a stage musical about the life of the

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Speaker 1: late great tenor Luciano Pavarotti. Our Nick Vivarellian Rome reports

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Speaker 1: that the Australian director is working with Pavarotti's widow on

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Speaker 1: the project. On Friday, I'm heading to the LA Convention

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Speaker 1: Center to check out k kon the K Pop and

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Speaker 1: Korean Culture fan Convention. I'll get some on the ground

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Speaker 1: reporting to give listeners a sense of just how intense

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Speaker 1: this fandom is. So come back Monday before we go.

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Speaker 1: Congrats to actors Jason Isaacs, Natasha Rothwell, and John Grease.

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Speaker 1: They will be faded with the Creative Coalition's Humanitarian Awards.

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Speaker 1: They'll be presented September thirteenth, the day before the Emmy Awards,

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Speaker 1: at a ceremony in Beverly Hills. Thanks for listening. This

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Speaker 1: episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with

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Speaker 1: contributions from Tatiana Siegel and Brian Steinberg. It was edited

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Speaker 1: by Aaron Greenwald. Stick's Next hick Picks. Please leave us

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Speaker 1: a review at the podcast platform of your choice, and

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Speaker 1: don't forget to tune in Monday for another episode of

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Speaker 1: Daily Variety.