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Speaker 1: Hmm, what committing illegal surgery my nightmare obstetricians? How is that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was definitely an improvement over Tuesday's intro,

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Speaker 1: which was, well, that was pretty good. I thought. I

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Speaker 1: thought that got a lot of a lot of emotion out.

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Speaker 1: I got a hype on that intro for sure, Thank you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Courtney Kossak returning for part two of the story

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Speaker 1: of Dr James Burt, the man who decided he could

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Speaker 1: to vaginas better. So happy to be back in honor

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Speaker 1: of this wonderful man, this this hero. Um, how are you?

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Speaker 1: How you? How you how you doing? As we roll

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Speaker 1: into part two, Courtney, UM, I feel I'm just clutching

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Speaker 1: my vagina tightly, just trying to keep it, trying to

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Speaker 1: keep it as God intended or whatever that means. You

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Speaker 1: gotta clutch it tightly because he's still out there. So

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Speaker 1: where right, just lurking around Florida retirement communities? Oh god, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's gotta be some retirement communities that they're going to

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Speaker 1: have some dark stories in a little bit. Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he sucks, And we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about one of the more unsettling books I've ever heard of,

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Speaker 1: so when we last left our hero seems like the

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Speaker 1: wrong word. Dr James Burt and his fourth wife Joan.

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Speaker 1: They had co authored a book called Surgery of Love.

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Speaker 1: It was aimed at creating popular demand for his love Surgery.

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Speaker 1: I have attempted to find a copy of this book,

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Speaker 1: but as of yet I have been unable to do so. Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: significant details about it exists, both thanks to the book

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Speaker 1: The Love Surgeon and from a story and the Archives

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Speaker 1: of Sexual Behavior, also written by Sarah Rodriguez, who I

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Speaker 1: assume must have acquired a copy herself. The information I

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Speaker 1: found on this book makes me think that it must

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Speaker 1: be among the most offensively misogynist things ever written. It

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Speaker 1: is a fascinating mix of paternalistic chauvinism and creepily sex

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Speaker 1: positive pseudoscience. Chapter titles include graced for impact here after

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Speaker 1: titals include Okay, this one's gonna hurt. All right, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take a sip of zevia here that soothes the horror. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tighter Titus, That would have been an improvement. Courtney. Um oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I read ahead. It's bad. Yeah, here's the first title

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read. There is no foreplay in ecstasy of

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Speaker 1: living and loving Colon only orgasmic loving. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what The next chapter, optimal sexual Functioning is sexual

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Speaker 1: ecstasy beyond the wildest imagination of most people come up

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Speaker 1: but within reach of all exclamation point a lot of

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Speaker 1: random capitalizing in here, too. Love is most people have

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Speaker 1: been living it with their mates, will ultimately destroy their

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Speaker 1: sexual ecstasy. Oh my god, and my personal favorite, how

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Speaker 1: any man can make his woman into a seething, massive,

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Speaker 1: perpetual passion for himself, simm colin your own private sex

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Speaker 1: pot in your own private world. Shut up, Robert, that's

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Speaker 1: a chapter, Your own private sex pot in your own

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Speaker 1: private world. That's he should be canceled today, retroactively, he

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Speaker 1: should be. That's the that's the goal of this cancel

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Speaker 1: culture has finally come from the for for the love Surgeon.

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Speaker 1: It's bad, and there's a lot that's in that last chapter.

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Speaker 1: In particular, I think it really highlights the thing that's

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Speaker 1: never admitted. But his key to all this, which is jealousy,

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Speaker 1: and not just even jealousy that your wife might be cheating,

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Speaker 1: but that there might be other men who are a

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Speaker 1: better lover than you. That's what this is about right,

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Speaker 1: is like being able to feel like you're some porn

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Speaker 1: star dynamo um and surgically altering the body of your

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Speaker 1: partner in order to do that, because learning things is

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Speaker 1: for is for cooks. It's it's great. Did he ever

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Speaker 1: state that I would no, no, this you gotta read

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Speaker 1: in between, but like you don't title a chapter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's bad. Yeah, your own private sex spot in your

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Speaker 1: own like the fact that like your own private world, right,

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Speaker 1: a world where there are no other men, where there's

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Speaker 1: no possibility of her taking another lover. She's so obsessed

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Speaker 1: with you and your dick. Um, That's that's what he's

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Speaker 1: saying there. You know, these are profoundly insecure, man, you

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Speaker 1: would have to be to do this. The book opens

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Speaker 1: with a biography of the authors, who write that they

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Speaker 1: quote manage the children still at home, two small boys

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Speaker 1: and their homes and Dayton and Veil. Their lives are

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Speaker 1: totally dedicated to each other, with their hobbies of travel

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Speaker 1: and skiing and writing secondary to just always being together

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Speaker 1: and pleasuring each other. Now, obviously James is prior marriages

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Speaker 1: and the allegations of a US against him are left out.

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Speaker 1: As you might get guess from that last line I quoted,

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Speaker 1: the whole book frames marriage is being first and foremost

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Speaker 1: about constantly fucking each other. Dr Birt is very clear

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Speaker 1: that he believes the key to a happy marriage is twofold,

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Speaker 1: incessant boning and a woman who is totally submissive to

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Speaker 1: her husband. In the book, he attacks what he calls

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Speaker 1: the quote current definition of love is defined by the

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Speaker 1: daily living habits of most people. The healthy variant of

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Speaker 1: this would be to recognize that the burdens of life

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Speaker 1: and modern society and raising children often cause couples to

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Speaker 1: lose sight of the joys of physical intimacy, and it

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Speaker 1: can be good to be reminded of that, right, That's

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Speaker 1: the healthy version of what he's saying. What he's saying

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Speaker 1: is that having lives outside of constantly sexually pleasuring each

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Speaker 1: other is a distraction from the only thing that makes

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Speaker 1: marriage worthwhile right and potentially a threat. Yeah, and a threat. Potentially,

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Speaker 1: anything that's not fucking um is a threat to the

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Speaker 1: only reason you would want to be with a person.

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Speaker 1: It's a very shallow view of intimacy. Now, it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot for me to say this book is too

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Speaker 1: pro sex, but this book is certainly too pro a

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Speaker 1: very specific and unhealthy kind of sex, and Dr Bert's view,

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Speaker 1: sex is the only thing that matters in a healthy relationship.

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Speaker 1: He urges couples to quote disregard previous definitions of the

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Speaker 1: word love in order to concentrate on what he calls

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Speaker 1: the ecstasy of living and loving. Bert advises the couples

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Speaker 1: reading his book to take absolutely every opportunity to touch

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Speaker 1: and fondle each other. He provides the example that if

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Speaker 1: a woman is cooking bacon in the morning, her husband

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Speaker 1: should go through her clothing to manipulate her clitterest until

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Speaker 1: she orgasms. The love surgery, he notes, will make this

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Speaker 1: breakfast fondling easier, as a circumcised clitterest would allow for

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Speaker 1: the woman to climax in a matter of seconds. This

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Speaker 1: makes it clear that again, the purpose of his surgery

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Speaker 1: is less about a woman's pleasure and more about making

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Speaker 1: it easier for the man to feel like a sex god.

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Speaker 1: He bragged that after surgery, a husband would be able

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Speaker 1: to bring his wife to orgasm with quote a blink

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Speaker 1: or two of his eyelashes. Oh my god, I'm just

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Speaker 1: in a perpetual cringe. It's it's very good Um, I

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Speaker 1: mean yeah. Bert goes on to write that every aspect

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Speaker 1: of daily living ought to be focused entirely around love

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Speaker 1: and physical loving. His surgery then, was so necessary because

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Speaker 1: biology got in the way of a couple fucking the

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Speaker 1: way and with the frequency that doctor James Burt wanted

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Speaker 1: personally to fuck. According to The New York Times, Bert's

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Speaker 1: book included this real banger of a line quote, women

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Speaker 1: are structurally inadequate for intercourse. This is a pathological condition

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Speaker 1: amenable to surgery. Oh my god, structurally inadequate. Did he

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Speaker 1: ever take a second to think it might be him? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is not a man who spent one solitary second

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Speaker 1: of his life analyzing his own behavior. Also, do you

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Speaker 1: love how he just straight up redefined the word love.

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Speaker 1: He's like, actually, I've got some notes on love as well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Love is actually all this stuff about like partnering and

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Speaker 1: like you know, potentially like raising human beings or even

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Speaker 1: just like taking on the burdens and difficulties of life together.

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Speaker 1: It's just boning. It's just constant, constant banging. That's all

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Speaker 1: that it is. Yeah, it's very again, a very sad

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Speaker 1: view of and it's you know, this guy is raised

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Speaker 1: in a repressive sexual culture. You can see some of

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Speaker 1: what he's doing is kind of like a reaction to

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Speaker 1: the sex negative attitudes that he would have been raised with,

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Speaker 1: but he takes it in like an equally unhealthy opposite direction.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Yep. Burtas shares his readers in the book

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Speaker 1: that love surgery will turn any woman into a quote

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Speaker 1: horny little mouse. Love surgery was the magic key to

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Speaker 1: quote fixed women, both from the inherent deficiency of their

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Speaker 1: biology and from the strains of childbirth. He wrote that

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Speaker 1: having children made many women large enough to drive a

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Speaker 1: truck through sideways. As I already noted, he described their

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Speaker 1: vaginas as real clappers, by which he meant he had enough,

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Speaker 1: by which he meant he had enough room to clap

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Speaker 1: his hands in their vagina. Oh my, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: Mary and Joseph, what the fuck guy? You should have

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Speaker 1: gotten his medical lice and just taken away for that comment. Yeah. That.

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Speaker 1: I often think if we could replace our federal law

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Speaker 1: enforcement agencies with just a group of men and women

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Speaker 1: in suits who find people who are who say really

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Speaker 1: shitty things and just just walk up to them. A couple,

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Speaker 1: couple of couple of people in suits with briefcases walk

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Speaker 1: up to him like, are you such and such yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then just hit him right in the face in public.

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Speaker 1: That would be the comment that that would yeah, just

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Speaker 1: just a just a g man hitting him in the

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Speaker 1: jaw in the middle of a Denny's would have been

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Speaker 1: the right response to writing that you don't even yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can just oh my god, it hurts. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's awful, it's a nightmare. Doctor Burt's version of intimacy

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Speaker 1: gives absolutely no time or consideration to the ability of

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Speaker 1: women to give themselves orgasm. He does not consider climaxing

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Speaker 1: to be a thing that couples work towards together either. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he seems to view orgasm as something a man gives

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Speaker 1: a woman. Bert wrote that men quote with their superior

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Speaker 1: physical strength should lovingly physically force their wives to have

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Speaker 1: multiple orgasms until she quote just can't stand it. If

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Speaker 1: she should demand that he stop and say that she's

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Speaker 1: had enough, Doctor Burt advises using physical strength to quote

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Speaker 1: force her to submit for quote further and further and

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Speaker 1: further orgasms. Dr Burt goes on to write that the

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Speaker 1: only difference between rape and rapture was salesmanship. Oh my

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Speaker 1: fucking god, somewhat. His first wife should have just taken

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Speaker 1: that straight to the courthouse. Yeah, rapists just aren't good salesman.

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Speaker 1: It's so horrible, a nightmare. I don't even have a joke. No, no,

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Speaker 1: what what can you say about that line? How can

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Speaker 1: you write that line without bursting into flames? It's amazing?

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Speaker 1: Great copyrighting though, great. Thank yeah, Look, the man was

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Speaker 1: a literary titan. The misogyny dripping from this book is

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Speaker 1: particularly clear when Dr Burt writes about his fourth wife,

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Speaker 1: Joan from the Love Surgeon quote. Although Joan Burt was,

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Speaker 1: according to the author Biographies and the Flap of Surgery

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Speaker 1: of Love, and accomplished actress and musician, and a sought

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Speaker 1: after professional and real estate with great artistic abilities. In

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Speaker 1: James Burt to view, a wife must give exclusive attention

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Speaker 1: in her private life to her husband in every and

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Speaker 1: all ways, and focus attention on his once needs, goals,

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Speaker 1: and face her children in the world at large. Is

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Speaker 1: a member of a loving couple, not as an individual.

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Speaker 1: A good wife, according to Bert, will never, at any time,

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Speaker 1: in any way in public or private, be critical or

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Speaker 1: demanding of her husband. Bert's emphasis if the husband wanted

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Speaker 1: his wife to gain or lose weight, dress a certain way,

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Speaker 1: or wear makeup, she should do so. Bert believed in

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Speaker 1: both their social and sexual roles, women were to be supine.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would never have got I don't know.

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Speaker 1: How are you supposed to get married in this day

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Speaker 1: and age? Uh? You mean back when Bert's writing it? Yes. Oh,

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Speaker 1: if a man decides he's interested in you, you just

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Speaker 1: do whatever he says. Look, that's the beauty of Dr

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Speaker 1: Birt's but you don't have a choice. It's fine as

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Speaker 1: long as he's a good salesman. Uh, real piece of shit. Ye.

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Speaker 1: On the up side, there's no upside. Yeah. I was like,

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Speaker 1: where you're going with that, buddy? Is he still performing surgery? Oh? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. You think he's gonna stop once he

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Speaker 1: publishes his book? Though this is the book is trying

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Speaker 1: to get more people to take it. He's decided to

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Speaker 1: go public with it. Right, he's an announcing that he's

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Speaker 1: doing his surgery. Dr Burt decided that this book, which

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Speaker 1: he hoped would help his love surgery be taken seriously

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Speaker 1: by the medical community, was a good place to brag

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Speaker 1: about how good he was at fucking his wife. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from medical bag here. The book even

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Speaker 1: bragged that his wife was one of the doctor's most

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Speaker 1: successful patients and that quote. Joan has climax and elevators

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Speaker 1: from the same path Southampton, Princess in Bermuda to the

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Speaker 1: Kualima in Hawaii, more than many women do in their

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Speaker 1: entire lives. Basically, she she orgasms more on like cruise

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Speaker 1: ship elevators than most women ever do in their whole

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Speaker 1: lives because I'm sucking her in the elevators of all

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Speaker 1: these cruise ships. Oh, I fucking got and she got

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Speaker 1: the clip surgery. Yeah, yeah, he did. He did all

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Speaker 1: the stuff to her. Joan Burt also commented that her

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Speaker 1: husband had finally, for the first time, given women quote

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to enjoy sex. Oh my god, beautiful brainwashing

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Speaker 1: some ancient Roman ladies. I might introduce him to. Yeah. So.

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Speaker 1: According to The New York Times, Dr Burt also used

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Speaker 1: his book as a place to admit to the world

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Speaker 1: that he had been committing love surgery for years without

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Speaker 1: the consent of his patients. Quote in the book, Dr

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Speaker 1: Burt admitted to performing reconstructive surgery on many hundreds of

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Speaker 1: women without their consent, usually after the birth of a child.

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Speaker 1: The patient, he wrote, had not been informed that anything

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Speaker 1: more had been done to her than delivery and epsiotomy repair,

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Speaker 1: or yes, you had stitches with your delivery. This is

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Speaker 1: in fact outrageous, but it didn't seem that way to

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Speaker 1: an awful lot of people at the time. And this

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Speaker 1: is because the Nine Teams seventies was the era in

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Speaker 1: which informed consent in the medical context did not quite

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Speaker 1: mean what it does now. The existence of informed consent

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Speaker 1: as a legal term and a required precursor for receiving

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Speaker 1: a medical procedure only dates back to nineteen seventy one

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Speaker 1: and has only been official in a meaningful way since

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. Even then it did not and again

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Speaker 1: people started talking about this. There were doctors in like

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Speaker 1: the late fifties talking about the fact that we need

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Speaker 1: to be getting informed consent, but it's not really mandated

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Speaker 1: until the early seventies, and even then they're using the

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Speaker 1: term conformed consent. You and I would not call what

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Speaker 1: most doctors were getting in that period informed consent. The

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Speaker 1: idea like now, when you say, like you need informed

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Speaker 1: consent to a procedure. It means patients or at least

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Speaker 1: the patients you know, representative in the case of like

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Speaker 1: a medical power of attorney, should have full comprehension of

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Speaker 1: the risks and consequences of a procedure before they can

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Speaker 1: be consented to have considered to have consented to it. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can't just tell someone what it's supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: You have to tell them what could go wrong, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: otherwise you're not really consenting. Early medical consent laws did

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Speaker 1: not do a good job and of ensuring the full

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Speaker 1: comprehension part. They were a huge step forward because now

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Speaker 1: surges and doctors had to at least get an okay

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Speaker 1: before agreeing to something. Um In the early days of

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Speaker 1: informed consent as a legal requirement, doctors would often just

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Speaker 1: hand waivers to patients and brusquely tell them you need

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Speaker 1: to sign this before I can give you the treatment

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Speaker 1: that you need. Right, you're gonna die unless I do this,

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Speaker 1: sign this paper without like they wouldn't actually tell them much,

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Speaker 1: you know, well, and he's doing all these like freestyle

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Speaker 1: in off label surgeries. Can you just do that ship

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Speaker 1: these days? Or does it have to be like this

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Speaker 1: is a standardized thing that we do. And this is

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Speaker 1: I mean you can do there are like less regulated

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Speaker 1: forms of um um uh cosmetic surgery in particular, so

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Speaker 1: you don't have to like you don't have to like

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Speaker 1: like get a bunch of doctors to sign off on

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Speaker 1: it necessarily, but you do have to inform them of

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, what it involves, in the risks of it.

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Speaker 1: And again there's still issues with this today. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's people who get uh breast augmentation surgery that aren't

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Speaker 1: adequately informed by by doctors even very like like prominent

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Speaker 1: doctors of like the consequences of that and how it

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Speaker 1: can go wrong because it's it's kind of a grifty

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Speaker 1: industry a lot of the but but it's better now,

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Speaker 1: right like because at least if you even if you

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Speaker 1: kind of get screwed over by a doctor who doesn't

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Speaker 1: inform you of the risks, you know you're going in

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Speaker 1: there for a surgery, as opposed to just like well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get a normal post pregnancy thing and

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Speaker 1: he moves your clitteress, you know, like it is it is.

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Speaker 1: Things have improved. Um yeah. Now we've already mentioned um yeah,

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Speaker 1: so in the nineteen fifties to the yearly nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: when James performed the majority of his love surgeries, it

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Speaker 1: was not uncommon for doctors to just do stuff to patients.

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Speaker 1: We've already mentioned that a psotomies were commonly performed with

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Speaker 1: that consent, as were the repairs. But even in this

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Speaker 1: lax environment, Dr Burt stood out it is one thing

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Speaker 1: to perform surgery considered necessary at the time without consent,

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Speaker 1: and that's not a good thing. But it's different from

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Speaker 1: performing experimental surgery on a patient's to change their genitalia

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Speaker 1: without informing them. There is a difference, right. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: normal to get consent for these kind of procedures in

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Speaker 1: the day, But also most doctors weren't doing what he

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Speaker 1: was doing, you know. M That said, the rather hazy

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Speaker 1: status of consent in the medical field in the late

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Speaker 1: seventies meant that doctor Bird's admissioned that he had been

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Speaker 1: performing love surgery on thousands of random people did not

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Speaker 1: have the impact you might expect. There were no criminal

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Speaker 1: charges filed, there was no mass campaign against his medical license.

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Speaker 1: This was an era in which a man seeking of

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Speaker 1: assectomy would often be denied because the doctor thought he

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Speaker 1: was too young. So like it's a different time in

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Speaker 1: terms of our attitudes towards these things. There's ay, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about a little later. There is a feminist outcry

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Speaker 1: against his book, but it's not about consent um because

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Speaker 1: that's not really a big topic of discussion at the time.

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Speaker 1: It's starting to come one by the eighties. It kind

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Speaker 1: of is, but that's not that's not the main issue

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Speaker 1: they have with it. Initially, James threw everything he had

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Speaker 1: into a massive press campaign that followed the release of

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Speaker 1: his book. He actually put his entire practice on hold

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Speaker 1: to try and drum up interest in his love surgery.

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Speaker 1: From a write up in the Archives of Sexual Behavior

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Speaker 1: quote a month after the book's publication, the local Dayton

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Speaker 1: Daily News ran an uncritical article about the surgery under

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Speaker 1: the headline local doctor develops corrective surgery. In the article,

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Speaker 1: Bert claimed that nearly a hundred percent of the women

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Speaker 1: who had undergone love surgery were a static with the results,

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Speaker 1: and his wife and co author Joan added that her

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Speaker 1: husband had given women the opportunity to enjoy sex. The

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00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 1: book provided Bert within the surgery with increased exposure, and

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six, he began offering it as an

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Speaker 1: elective for fifteen hundred dollars plus plus hospitalization costs. The

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Speaker 1: two hour long surgery required five days in the hospital,

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Speaker 1: at least a week of sitting on an inner tube,

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Speaker 1: and six to eight weeks without sex. Yeah, oh god,

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00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,919
Speaker 1: it hurts. You know, it doesn't hurt. The products and

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00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: services that support this podcast won't cause you pain. They

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Speaker 1: always get informed consent. So if you play me out, uh, alright,

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Speaker 1: so we're back, unfortunately, unfortunatally, so sorry. These women who

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Speaker 1: are paying at least know what's going on, right, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: they do at least know what's going on. Um, you

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Speaker 1: can argue, I mean, there are arguments to be made

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Speaker 1: that he does not provide them with and he doesn't

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Speaker 1: provide them with really adequate information about the consequences of this.

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Speaker 1: But they do know that they're getting a surgery to

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Speaker 1: rearrange their vaginas. So that's something now that's not everyone

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Speaker 1: even in this period that he performs the surgery on

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about, but he does now have people

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Speaker 1: who are consenting to it, so that's a forward. Now.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, doctor Burt started offering his love

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00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: surgeries an elective surgery. It was legal for physicians to

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Speaker 1: advertise their services, or at least not illegal, but like

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Speaker 1: it was, it was the kind of thing you would

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Speaker 1: get in trouble for. It was seen as a violation

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Speaker 1: of the sacred trust place in doctors, a commercial profaning

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Speaker 1: of the professionalism of the field. Despite this, Dr Burt

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00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: used to skill at manipulating the media to act as

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Speaker 1: a more effective ad blitz than any billboard. He hired

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Speaker 1: a New York City PR firm to publicize love surgery,

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Speaker 1: and he sat for interviews and Play Girl and on

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Speaker 1: the Phil Donahue Show. Quote The Playgirl article appeared a

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Speaker 1: year before Bert began offering love surgery as an elective,

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Speaker 1: and in addition to speaking with Bert, Murray also interviewed

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Speaker 1: several women who chose to undergo love surgery. The women

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Speaker 1: whose name Murray's, the author of the Playgirl article, received

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Speaker 1: from Burt, all raved about love surgery. One woman told

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Speaker 1: Murray sex was so natural now that she and her

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00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: husband no longer had to work at it, a sentiment

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00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: expressed nearly verbatim by another woman. A third woman told

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Speaker 1: Murray she easily enjoyed multiple orgasms, sometimes so strong she

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Speaker 1: nearly passed out. Murray interviewed women, including Bert's wife, Joan,

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Speaker 1: who told Murray that since having love surgery, she could

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Speaker 1: now count on climaxing during sex. Murray, notably impressed with

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Speaker 1: what these women told her about the surgery, considered it

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Speaker 1: two points in the article, putting herself on Bert's operating table.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, thanks, playgirl. What we do is we

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Speaker 1: take this little carrot shredder and we filed down your

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00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: clip and then go to town on it. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven, a circuit court ruled that the

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Speaker 1: a m A could not restrict its members from advertising.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty two, the Supreme Court upheld this ruling,

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Speaker 1: which is why the world of medicine works the way

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Speaker 1: it does today. James Burt was well ahead of the trend.

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Speaker 1: He was not the first doctor to remove the clatoral

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Speaker 1: hood in order to enable faster orgasms. He was not

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Speaker 1: the first doctor to offer vaginal tightening, but he was

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00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: the first doctor to go to the public and shout

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00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: the benefits of these surgeries. By nineteen seventy eight, he

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Speaker 1: claims more than two women had requested his love surgery

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Speaker 1: with their own informed consent sort of. As I mentioned

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Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy five on, surgeons like doctor Burt had

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Speaker 1: to get informed consent before committing surgery on a patient,

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00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: but the only sign that they had done so was

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Speaker 1: a consent form with their signature. One sociological study from

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Speaker 1: around the same period found that nearly forty percent of

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00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: patients who consented to various medical studies had actually known

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00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: they'd signed consent forms to participate in medical studies. The

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00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 1: Catholic Hospital doctor performed to surgeries at Saint Elizabeth started

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Speaker 1: requiring him to use a special consent form specific to

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Speaker 1: love surgery in nineteen seventy nine. Many of his patients

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00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 1: after that period claimed they either did not sign consent

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00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: forms or were not informed of what they were actually signing.

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Speaker 1: Many of his love surgery patients were women who came

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Speaker 1: to him asking for procedures to help with than continents

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Speaker 1: or post pregnancy repairs. Cheryl Sexton Dylan went to him

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00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, when she was thirty six. She'd

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00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: come in from minor bladder surgery and been recommended to

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Speaker 1: Hyster direct to me by her doctor, who sent her

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Speaker 1: to James Burt, from a write up in ABC News, quote,

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Speaker 1: well she was under the knife. He performed a nine

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Speaker 1: hour operation, relocating her vagina and removing her clatoral hood.

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Speaker 1: Dylan said she had no idea he would do more

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Speaker 1: than a standard HYS direct me. Dylan, who in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four was a vocational teacher with three children, said afterward,

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Speaker 1: I thought I would die. The pain was unlike anything

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Speaker 1: I had ever experienced, in places I couldn't understand. She said.

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Speaker 1: Even ordinary activities became impossible, sitting down, wearing pants, riding

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Speaker 1: a horse. Dylan could no longer have sex without excruciating pain.

427
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: Despite an understanding husband, her happy marriage eventually fell apart.

428
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: It's bad Cheryl did not initially know what had been

429
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: done to her. She confronted Dr Burt and asked him,

430
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: what have you done? He replied, what are you asking about.

431
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: It was not until she met with other doctors and

432
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: was examined that she learned she had been surgically mutilated.

433
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: In his press blitz and his book, James Burt presented

434
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: story after story of satisfied patients. When journalists would reach

435
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: out to him about his love surgery, he would connect

436
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: them to women who raved about his love surgery. Those

437
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: journalists never heard from Cheryl Dillon or from Janet Phillips.

438
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty one, she went to Dr Burt for

439
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: a His director and his directory meant to remove ovarian cancer.

440
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: It was a significant enough procedure that she stayed in

441
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: the hospital for eleven days after her surgery. As you

442
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: might expect, the time was a blur, but she had

443
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: strong memories of waking up several times to the site

444
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: of nurses around here, clearly upset. When she finally talked

445
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: to Dr Burt after her procedure and asked him if

446
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: he removed all the cancer, he replied, don't worry. Everything

447
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: is fine. You are going to be okay. But she

448
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: was not. For eleven days of uneven recovery, she was

449
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: in agony. Once she left the hospital, the pain came

450
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: with her. She had no control over her bladder. When

451
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: she eventually went to doctor Burt again and asked him

452
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: what had happened, he told her he'd tacked up her

453
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 1: bladder and that her muscles needed time to rejuvenate. This

454
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: did not happen. Instead, her incontinence caused chronic infections. She

455
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: went on antibiotics but every time she went off the antibiotics,

456
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: the infections would return. Eventually, desperate for relief, Janet went

457
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: to her trusted doctor again. She told him her vagina

458
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: felt raw, that she experienced intense pain through vaginal intercourse.

459
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: Doctor Burt responded that her husband must be bigger than

460
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: I thought. She thought this was peculiar, but Janet did

461
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: not yet suspect that a madman had rearranged her general's

462
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: genitals without her approval. Who would She asked Dr Burt

463
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: to recommend urologists, since he hadn't expressed any willingness to

464
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: actually help her. He warned her not to visit another doctor,

465
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: telling her I've already got you on the road to healing,

466
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: and warning that another less competent physician might tear his surgery,

467
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: which could cause life threatening hemorrhaging. Frightened, but trusting her doctor,

468
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: Janet continued to see Doctor Burt. After every visit, he

469
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: would hug her and pat her on the back. She

470
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: felt safe with him and believed him when he said

471
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: she was on the road to being healed. What the fuck?

472
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: This is so manipulative? Yeah, it's pretty outrageous. This went

473
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: on for three years, during what she continued to experience

474
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: agony and bleeding during sex. Doctor Bert advised her to

475
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: quote keep trying, even if it's painful. She could not

476
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: control her bladder and had to wear pads constantly. Her

477
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: incontinence grew worse, and by April of nineteen eighty four,

478
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: he recommended another round of surgery to quote take the

479
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: perineum down a bit. Dr Burt still insisted her complications

480
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: were normal, a result of her hysterectomy. By this point,

481
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: Janet's trust in her doctor had worn off. She stopped

482
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: seeing him in nineteen eighty four, but did not go

483
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: to another gynecologist until nineteen eighty five because she was

484
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: frightened she might bleed to death if he screwed up. Eventually,

485
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: when the pain got so bad that she couldn't stand

486
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: it anymore, she booked an appointment with gynecologist with a

487
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: gynecologist named Michael Clark from the Love Surgeon quote. Clark

488
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: informed Philips her clearess had been circumcised and there was

489
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: a good deal of scar tissue in the glatoral area,

490
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: that her labia had been removed, and that her urine

491
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: was collecting in a little pouch that resulted from the operation.

492
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: He also told Philips her vagina had been redirected. To

493
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: help her better understand what had been done to her,

494
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: Clark drew pictures of typical female genitalia and then contrasted

495
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: these drawings with her genitals. Years later, Phillips recounted how

496
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: she heard the gynecologist she saw in nineteen eighty five say,

497
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: as she cried in his office, that he did not

498
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: know where to begin with this mess. Oh my god. Yeah,

499
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: redirected her vagina. Vagina the pouch though, I think it

500
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: was that's the worst. Yeah. The book goes into significant

501
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: detail about the pouch and about kind of the way

502
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: like she's got constant infections. Um, nothing seems to work

503
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: on them. She's either just permanently on antibiotics or she's

504
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: always got an infection, just a nightmare. Um. And so

505
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: it was four years after her initial surgery that Janet

506
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: Phillips realized her problems were not complications from her hysterectomy.

507
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: She quickly made the decision to file suit against the

508
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: love surgeon. Yes, yeah, yeah, this is this is this

509
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: is where the come begins to upends. Yes. Uh. Throughout

510
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: this period, the early to mid nineteen eighties, James Burke

511
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: was busy himself. He had fought a series of legal

512
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: in pr battles to get Metropolitan Life Insurance and Blue

513
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: Shield to cover his love surgery as a necessary operation.

514
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: It was covered by insurance for a while. When they refused,

515
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: he failed a complaint with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission,

516
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: claiming that love surgery was a matter of women receiving

517
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: equal medical treatment, an equal rights thing. Oh my god, Yeah,

518
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: when it comes in handy, Yeah, you'll perform a vasectomy

519
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: on a man, but you won't let me carry out

520
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: my experimental surgery that permanently damages people. This is Biggert

521
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: treat Yeah. Millions of dollars and thousands of aaginas were

522
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: at stake over the issue. To get insurance companies to

523
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: treat his love surgery like a real medical treatment, he

524
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: would have to convince the medical establishment that it was

525
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: a real medical treatment. Dr Burt spent much of the

526
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties conducting a series

527
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: of studies and attempting to convince his colleagues to do

528
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: the same. Whenever a researcher was willing, Dr Burt would

529
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: connect them to all of his positive cases, the women

530
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: who had reported good experiences after love surgery. He wrote

531
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: his own reports and attempted to publish them, but journal

532
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: authors consistently rejected them. This did change in nineteen eighty

533
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: three when Dr Burt in a colleague Dr Shram, succeeded

534
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: in convincing a finished medical journal to publish his research

535
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: on the efficacy of love surgery. Now, this was not

536
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: a good study. He was only interviewing women that he

537
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: already knew had good experiences with it, right like there

538
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: was an actual survey of all the women he'd given

539
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: it to. But this study that he managed to convince

540
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: the journe only to publish claimed that after love surgery,

541
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: eighty percent of his patients and experienced and increased ease

542
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: of ability to orgasm and some of the most tortuous

543
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: and offensive logic and medical history. Doctor Burt attempted to

544
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: claim that this meant his love surgery would reduce domestic violence. Sarah,

545
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: oh yeah, part yeah yeah, Sarah Rodriguez reports quote. Burt

546
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: and Shram reported that the surgery had an additional benefit,

547
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: it reduced marital violence. According to their article, nearly of

548
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: those who participated reported wife beating before the surgery. After

549
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: the surgery, Burton Shram claimed there was a decrease. Oh

550
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: my fucking yeah. The only reason people are hitting their

551
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: wives is they're not having easy enough orgasms. That's it.

552
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: That's why domestic violence happens. It's these loose pusses and

553
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: these buried clips. It's one of the most offensive things

554
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: I can imagine putting to writing. It's bad. He's trying

555
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: to outdo himself each each time he writes a new

556
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: sentence on on paper, He's like, is this the worst

557
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: one in the English language. Let's try again. Not quite,

558
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: let me tweak it a little bit. He ought to

559
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: be His typewriter should have been taken away for darn

560
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: share his His typewriter should have been taken away. That

561
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: study aside, Dr Bird's love surgery had virtually no acknowledgement

562
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: in mainstream medical circles. Many experts decried what he was

563
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: doing as dangerous and ineffective. He continued to practice and

564
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: butcher for one simple reason. His love surgery was super profitable.

565
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: Made a ton of money for St. Elizabeth Hospital. Just

566
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: his practice in general, he made them a lot of money.

567
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: They knew because he published it. That he had performed

568
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: this surgery on several thousand women who had not consented

569
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: to it. And the worst part of well not the

570
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: worst part, but the most infuriating, the ironic part of

571
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: this is St. Elizabeth's is a Catholic hospital. That's what

572
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: I was about. It didn't allow abortions as elective surgery,

573
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: but it allowed this guy to rearrange vaginas without the

574
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: consent of his patient and defended him for years. This

575
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: fucking church. Catholics are low key the bastards of this one. Um,

576
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: the Catholic churches. I was raised Catholic, those guys, Oh

577
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, I mean I was raised episcopali in

578
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: which is just like Catholic with ten percent less shame um,

579
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: and I would take ten percent less less child molestation. Two.

580
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: Although my specific chunk of the Episcopal Church might like

581
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: literally the church I went to. So back in the

582
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: early aughts, the Episcopal Church appointed a gay bishop in California,

583
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: and it was like a big moment um for just

584
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: Christianity in general. Um. This acknowledgement from one of the

585
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: largest chunks of Christianity, the US, that it wasn't inherently

586
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: sinful to be homosexual and it was a chunk of

587
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: the Episcopal Church broke away ask and joined the African

588
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: Anglican Church because they were not willing to say that

589
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: gay people were weren't bad. Um, and my like the

590
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: actual building that I went to, and my pastor was

591
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: the guy who led that. Like, I got interviewed as

592
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: a kid by news networks walking out of like youth

593
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: group classes, um, like because we were like it was

594
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: my church leading the charge against this gay bishop. Um,

595
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: it's cool shit. Yeah, I was like twelve at the time,

596
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: maybe thirteen. I didn't really know what was going on, um,

597
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: because I was pretty brainwashed. But yeah, churches, it's good ship. Um.

598
00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: You know what won't deny elective taking a church? Yeah,

599
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: I definitely won't take you to church. Capitalism is a

600
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: is a fundamentally a religious philosophy. Um, as long as

601
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: religion isn't profitable, it becomes religious when religions profitable. But

602
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: so I guess it. Dr Burt did make a lot

603
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: of money for capitalism. Let's not think too much about that.

604
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: Here's some ads. All right, we're back. Ah, we're having

605
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: just a real real good time talking about this charming fella.

606
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: There were calls to pull Dr Bird's license and to

607
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: stop the madness, largely from feminists, whose issue initially had

608
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: less to do with a lack of consent than the

609
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: fact that he framed his love surgery as necessary in

610
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: order to turn women into quote sexpots from a study

611
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: in the Archives of Sexual Behavior Quote. In June, the

612
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: Boston Women's Health Book Collective, the authors of the core

613
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: feminist text Our Bodies Ourselves, sent copies of a Medical

614
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: World News article about the surgery to an Ohio the

615
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: Surgery of an Ohio gaynecologist two and fifty women's health

616
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: organizations across the United States. It's part of their monthly

617
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: mailing to these groups. Along with their article, the b

618
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: w HBC enclosed a letter saying they were appalled by

619
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: the vaginal and clitoral mutilation recommended by Dr James C. Burt.

620
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: To suggest. The letter continued that women need vaginal surgery

621
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: because they do not have orgasms with each penile. Vaginal

622
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: intercourse is to inflict upon women male fantasies and assumptions

623
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: about female sexuality. The b w HBC condemned the surgery

624
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: is sexist, and with their letters, sought to pressure Burt

625
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: to stop performing it um. So again, there are obviously

626
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: in the right, but it is interesting that their issue

627
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: is not a consent thing. It's um. It has more

628
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: to do with just like how inherently misogynists the idea

629
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: of the surgery is right, which also valid point, perfectly

630
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: valid point angry feminists. One point. It does note that

631
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: like um, it is worth noting that, like yeah, like that.

632
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 1: That shows you just the fact that consent isn't there issue,

633
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: how little of a topic of discussion it is even

634
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: in the late nineteen seventies. In late nineteen eighty, he

635
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: took a job appearing on a weekly radio talk show

636
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: for an hour every week. His show, Love Doctor was

637
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: billed as an opportunity for listeners to hear his take

638
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: on sex, sexual and kind of collogical problems, as well

639
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: as his work in female reconstructive surgery. There was an

640
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: immediate outcry against this, but that's sort of what the

641
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: radio station had been banking on. They built him as controversial,

642
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: and press reports on his show repeated that word ad nauseum,

643
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: as if controversy was the apt term for people angry

644
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: at a man who reinvented vaginas and tested out his

645
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: new surgery without asking. Dr Burt told his new listeners

646
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: that traditional gynecology was deficient. Of course, this guy has

647
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: not met one structure or system that he didn't think

648
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: was deficient. Yeah, because he knows best, you know, he's

649
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: the love doctor. Throughout the mid nineteen eighties, medical outcry

650
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: against Dr Bert continued to build. A number of his

651
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: colleagues filed private complaints against him, but, as The New

652
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: York Times reported, most doctors and nurses were too frightened

653
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: of his influence to take any real action. Quote. Gynecologists

654
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: knew about doctor Burt's surgery and recognized it when they

655
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: examined his former patients. Doctors would say, Bert's done surgery

656
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: on you, hasn't he says Joey Martin, on whom he

657
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: performed his surgery. We've all had doctor Burt's patients, and

658
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: we've tried to undo the work he has done, said

659
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: doctor Robert Hilty, a gynecologist who was chairman of the

660
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: Department of Obstetstetrics and Gynecology at Cattering Medical Center in

661
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: Dayton for eighteen years. But we need the freedom to

662
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: openly criticize without fear of legal retribution. So again, these

663
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: guys are terrified because Number one, the hospital where a

664
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: lot of them work, is backing this dude. Number two,

665
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: he's got money, so he can destroy you. If you

666
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: come after him, he can destroy your practice. He's got

667
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: a lot of power. The end for doctor Burt began

668
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: when a number of his victims, women who had gradually

669
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: pieced together the truth of what he'd done to them,

670
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: started to make their voices heard. One of these women

671
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: was Cheryld Dylan. It took our out a year from

672
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five to fully understand what had been done

673
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: to her. After months went by with intense pain, she

674
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: decided to seek a second opinion and went to a

675
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: doctor at the University of Cincinnati. She recalled, he looked

676
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: at me and called in one of the nurses and said,

677
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: have you ever seen anything like this? He had repositioned

678
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: my vagina and circumcised me. The doctor said he had

679
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: never seen it anywhere except in African tribes. Dylan sued

680
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: Dr Burt and St. Elizabeth Medical Hospital for malpractice in

681
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: eight nineteen eighty five. She won by default, but got nothing,

682
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: as the good doctor had no asset she could easily garnish.

683
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: Dylan settled out of court with the hospital for an

684
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 1: undisclosed sum. Again he's done like the thing that people

685
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: with money do. Where you're able, you know, you know

686
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: how to hide your money and if you give you

687
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: that kind of guy. The end finally came for doctor

688
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: James Burt as a result of the sheer number of

689
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: women he abused. Like Cheryl Dylan and Janet Phillips, they

690
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: all gradually and fits and starts figured out what had

691
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: been done. One of the people who helped put the

692
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: pieces together was another much her doctor Bradley Busaco, an

693
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: obstetrician who would eventually see some one hundred and fifty

694
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: of doctor Bert's love surgery patients. His first encounter with

695
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: the bad doctors where it came in nineteen eight six

696
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: as the result of a referral from a lawyer representing

697
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: one of doctor Bird's patients. The Chicago Tribune reports that quote.

698
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: By the time she found Busaco, her attorney said she

699
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 1: had been rejected by Dayton doctors who did not want

700
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: to treat a patients of Birds, a powerful doctor in

701
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: Dayton medical circles. She was in pain from bladdering urinary

702
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: infections and from the friction of clothes against her genital area.

703
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: And now. At first Dr Busaco thought the woman on

704
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: his table was quote just a little off, but in

705
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: time he realized, with donning horror, what had been done

706
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: to her. It was not an easy decision for him

707
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: to go public against Dr James Burt. Doctors kind of

708
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: like cops, tend to support each other, and this was

709
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: even more common in the day, Like it was very uncommon.

710
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: There's this kind of white wall of science of silence.

711
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: You you support each other, you don't testify against each other,

712
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: you don't go up against another doctor. You're kind of

713
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: all in this together, right, That's this attitude. I'm sure

714
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: it's still pervasive today. It was even more so back

715
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: back then. But Busaco couldn't just sit back and let

716
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: this keep happening. He signed a complaint with the state

717
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: Medical Board that started the first official investigation into Dr

718
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: Burt from an article in the Chicago Tribune. Quote. After

719
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: much soul searching and consulting with his wife, Peggy Boussaco

720
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: decided he had a duty to help the women and

721
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: turned Bert into state officials. His decision was consistent with

722
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: his interpretation of the Hippocratic Oath, which requires that a

723
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: physician do no harm. I had talked with lie sam Bold,

724
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: this is the lawyer a lot of these women work with,

725
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: and told her I decided it would be very difficult

726
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: for me to live if I didn't do it, and

727
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: I told her I was going to cooperate with the

728
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: State Medical Board and with her. Busaco said the risks

729
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: were significant. Busaco and his wife stealed themselves for what

730
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: was to come. They knew they were challenging an unwritten

731
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: code among medical professionals. Doctors don't turn on each other.

732
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: I was only thinking that this was a clear moral decision.

733
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: There was no gray area here. Peggy Busaco said Doctor

734
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: Burt was guilty of monstrous acts. And I didn't see

735
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: that we had a choice. I guess I really felt

736
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: we were on the right side and it was a

737
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: clear choice. And I never thought there would be that

738
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: many negative repercussions, but there were. Dr Burt immediately sued Busaco.

739
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: He started pushing his influential connections earned from a long

740
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: career of making a lot of money for the hospital.

741
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: A Mount Washington plastic surgeon wrote an open letter criticizing

742
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: Dr Busaco. Doctors he worked with would take him aside

743
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: in private and advise him to drop the case, saying

744
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: he'd made a mistake. A high up official at the

745
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: university where Boussaco taught warned him that his job was

746
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: on the line if he continued. Yes, he goes like

747
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: it's a significant act of moral courage for him to

748
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: do this. It is not an easy thing. Um quote.

749
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: I had heard from several physicians I knew well and

750
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: respected who told me I was doing the wrong thing.

751
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: Busaco said. The worst thing that could have happened is

752
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: I could have been blackballed, probably that physicians would not

753
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: have referred patients to me for second opinions. He told

754
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: his wife that they might have to leave home for

755
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: a new state if things went badly. But then in

756
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: n the news media caught up to the fact something

757
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: deeply fucked up was going on with the love surgeon.

758
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: CBS ran a major investigation. They interviewed Dr Busaco, who

759
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: agreed to speak in the hope that it would warn

760
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 1: other women away from receiving this surgery. CBS also talked

761
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: to Cheryl Bilan, who went into gruesome detail about her

762
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: experiences on national TV. She told the world, we have

763
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: to stop this man. I don't want to die young

764
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: and have my daughter go to the same doctor. When

765
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: he was reached for comment, James Burt called the report

766
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: a conspiracy of lies, but by this point he was

767
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: unable to fight further. Doctor Burt had made the nineteen

768
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: seventies equivalent of more than four hundred thousand dollars per year,

769
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: but following the decision of Love and Sure Of insurance

770
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: companies to stop covering love surgery, his income fell substantially

771
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: from the love surgeon quote. Rumors of Joan and James

772
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: Burt's debts began to be more than speculation. In late

773
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: September nineteen eighty, a local art Gallleries sued the couple

774
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: for not paying for a bronze sculpture and two paintings

775
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: delivered to the Burt home in January nineteen seventy nine.

776
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: The Bert's contended that the pieces were left at their

777
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: home on an approval races. The gallery contended, and the

778
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: court agreed that the Birds needed to pay the galley

779
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: six thousand, two dollars and fifty cents with interest for

780
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: the art. In nine one, James Burtt filed for bankruptcy,

781
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: but it was dismissed um because he he was they

782
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: thought he was making too much money, like he was

783
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: trying to he was filing for bankruptcy, but they knew

784
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: he was just hiding assets, right, Like he's making less

785
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: money now he's having problems, but he's also like clearly

786
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: lying about his assets. Could we just say those women

787
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: that started the P two movement, they're the heroes of

788
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely. Yeah. Um, you know,

789
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: the the women who like went went to bat against

790
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: this guy, the lawyer who collected all of these different

791
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: cases and pursued it so doggedly. The one doctor who

792
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: finally decided to Yeah, I mean, and a lot of

793
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: doctors made private complaints, but like what makes Busaco noteworthy

794
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: is he did he decided private wasn't enough. You have

795
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: to go public with this, you know. Um, yeah, all

796
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: of those people. And it's also it says a lot

797
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: that it took all of those people for sure, guy down. Yeah,

798
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: it's it takes a lot. It makes me think of

799
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: like today, I mean, I don't know, like obviously this

800
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: is a super wretched version of events, but like people

801
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: doing experimental ship like that today, or like those weird

802
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: laser vaginal tightening things like what's going on there? Yep, yep.

803
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: To make ends meet and to cover his growing debts.

804
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: Dr Burt Smith the early nineteen eighties teaching his love

805
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: surgery to other doctors, all while attempting to gaslight his

806
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: patients and fight off the first lawsuits brought against him.

807
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: By the number of lawsuits and the number of verified

808
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: victims had risen to several hundred. One malpractice suit against

809
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: him included thirty three women who said they'd never consented

810
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: to genital reconstruction. Here's a selection of quotes from some

811
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: of these women right now. I feel I've been raped.

812
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: I thought I die. The pain was unlike anything I

813
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: had ever experienced. In places. I couldn't understand the way

814
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: I was deformed. I couldn't have sex. I ended up

815
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: going through three different corrective surgeries. You're raised to trust

816
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: your minister, your policeman, and your doctor. He was the

817
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: one with a degree on the wall. He knew medicine

818
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: better than I did. I didn't think he would hurt me,

819
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know why he did that unless he

820
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: hates women. Oh that's the most damning thing of all. Yeah,

821
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, why else would you do ship like this

822
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Yeah. In December of the

823
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: Ohio Medical Board label Burt grossly unprofessional and charged him

824
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: with forty one violations of ethics. The board said that

825
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: he regularly caused permanent physical damage due to his experimental

826
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: and medically unnecessary surgical procedures. In January of nineteen eighty nine,

827
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: Dr Burt surrendered his license in order to avoid a

828
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: medical board hearing that might have uncovered information even more

829
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: damning than the stuff we've talked about today. He almost

830
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: immediately declared bankruptcy over his inability to pay them more

831
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 1: than twenty one million dollars in malpractice lawsuits filed against

832
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: him for medical bag quote. Even after surrendering his medical license,

833
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: brit maintained his innocence. He blamed his situation on an

834
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: unjustified crucifixion and an avalanche of yellow journalism. He insisted,

835
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: my medical practice has been conducted with great concern for

836
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: the welfare of women. There are a lot of women

837
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: with problems involving vaginal intercourse that are either not being

838
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: adequately addressed or not being addressed at all. His son

839
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: also came to his defense at the time, reporting there

840
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: are hundreds and hundreds of doctor Burt's patients alive today

841
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: whose marriages and lives were dramatically improved by his wholesome

842
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: restoration to their fully functioning sexual responsiveness, which most of

843
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: those patients had previously enjoyed earlier in their marriages. That's it,

844
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: that's all. He got no jail, not saying he's got no.

845
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: He might still be alive and in Florida. I think

846
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: it is no. No, she left him. He might have

847
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: got married since, but she left him money. Yeah. But

848
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: also she's kind of a bastard. Yeah, she is. She's

849
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: she's terrible too. UM's not, she's not as terrible. She

850
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: hasn't execute but maybe she had a mote. You know,

851
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: she's like in her thirties, she has this come to

852
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: Jesus moment. She's like, you know, yeah, people could change,

853
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: Jones can change, can change. And the fact that he

854
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: kind of took her when she was so young one,

855
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: it's not great. You know, it's better than marrying a teenager,

856
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: but not by a whole lot. Um. I'm sure she

857
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: she was not. She didn't have money. All all the

858
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: money was his. He performed his surgery on her. You know,

859
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: it's a messy. I'm sure. My hope is, yeah, that

860
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: she actually recognized that she had been party to something

861
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: terrible and that's why she left as supposed to just

862
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: being like, well this is over, time to like roll

863
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: out something new. I don't know. I wish her the best,

864
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: but I also wish that she has some understanding of

865
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: how she contributed to these arms. Yeah, so how you

866
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: feel in Courtney, I'm unclenching my vagina, letting it know

867
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: that it is safe to come back out. Yeah, he's

868
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: old enough now that even if he gets out of Florida,

869
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: he's pretty slow. He's not he's not going to catch anybody.

870
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: Oh god, Yeah, you can probably take him down with

871
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: like a solid whack from a broom. His bones have

872
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: got to be brittle as hell by this point. We

873
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: have what you know, he should go out with the surgery.

874
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: We have a special surgery for you, Dr Burt. We're

875
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: gonna take your anus and put it where your mouth is. Yeah.

876
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: We've decided your body was not properly designed for all

877
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: of the ship that you spew out of your mouth.

878
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: So we're just going to redirect your your digestive system

879
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: out of your mouth. Um, We're adding an extra tongue too,

880
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: so you can really enjoy the results of the surgery. Here,

881
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: Sign this, yes, Sign this. Yeah. How's everybody feeling? We

882
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: all be all goods? Yeah. I found this after because

883
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: I was doing the There was a comment during the

884
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: Kellogg episodes because we were talking about like cli erectomys

885
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: um and how common they were in like the early

886
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds as a treatment for a masturbation,

887
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: and I someone had asked me, Miles asked me how

888
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: common it was, and I said, basically, you know, it

889
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: seems like it was pretty common, and I wanted to

890
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: like double check that. Anyway, I wound up on the

891
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page talk about cli erectomies in the United States,

892
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: and it was like this guy existed and he thought

893
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: he could rearrange the vagina and it involved cutting the

894
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: clitteress um. And I was like, that sounds like a

895
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 1: fucking story, and my god, it was sure was Yeah,

896
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: can you imagine just your clint being so exposed, like

897
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: like a light socket just when anything. I mean, I

898
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: can't imagine it in any way, but it's it seems

899
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: like he had a lot of bad ideas. Yeah, it

900
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: seems terrible. Oh man, good stuff, Core, you got any

901
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: pluggables for us? Well, if that didn't completely turn you

902
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: off of sex, head on over to Private Parts Unknown podcast.

903
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: I co host with Sophia Alexandra, a delightful, hilarious person,

904
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: and we have positive conversations about sex. Check it out.

905
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: Do that it's deliful and not horrifying. Like this makes

906
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: your agency back? Robert, you want to enter? Want to

907
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: enter podcast? No? No, I don't, Sophie. He's Robert Evan.

908
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: You can follow him on Twitter at I right, okay,

909
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: you can follow us at bastard spot on Twitter and

910
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 1: Instagram and we'll be back next week with another horrible tale.

911
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we could just we could just keep off

912
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: wordly podcasting for days. We could try to break a

913
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: world record, Sophie, we don't have to end this now.

914
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: I'd really rather not, but like go off, well, you know,

915
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: gosh it, I don't have anything else, Sophie, I don't

916
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: have anything else. Then awkward And to the podcast. Sweet

917
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: listeners made flights of angels singly away from the Love Doctor.

918
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: H h