1 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: All right, Adrian, We're at the corner of Columbus, staring 2 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: at the storefront, and I've brought you here because I 3 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 1: know you were on the scene in Brooklyn circa two 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: thousand seven. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. I'm in 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: New York with Adrian Anderson, the ultimate Brooklyn food Maymon. 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Adrian has been working with chefs and food media around 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: New York for years, both making the food and making 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: it look beautiful. I was just getting out of restaurants 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: and starting to work as a food stylist. It was 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: maybe still living in Williamsburg, maybe Bushwick around that time. 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: That's what I was hoping for. Adrian co owned the 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: studio where all the food magazine shop and she did 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the styling. So when I wanted someone 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: to walk me through the ultimate cautionary tale in world 15 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: of craft chocolate, a tail that has a lot to 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: do with the looks and appearances, but bygone Brooklyn era, 17 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: I knew wh would ask. I feel like we were 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: at the beginning or kind of the early stages of 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: farm to table, and I think that we were still 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: in this era of discovery and excitement about sourcing and 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: honesty and authenticity in food, and in that like budding 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: good future suddenly appears a new choppolate maker, Rygan Williamsburg. 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: The Mask Brothers. Yeah, do you remember when they first 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: came onto your radar? I can't pinpoint the exact moment. 25 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: It was more of a sort of a creeping light 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 1: leak at the periphery of your consciousness. Stores that had 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: the cool food at the time started carrying masts and 28 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: it was really noticeable because the design the rappers was 29 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: so good. It really was. Every bar looks like it 30 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: was wrapped in beautiful, old fashioned wallpaper with minimal words. 31 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: In an era when most chocolate bars were still heavy 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: on the bling, these bars seemed handmade and real, and 33 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: the food world gobbled them up. How do you make 34 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: absolutely incredible Valentine's Day chocolate? Well, here at the Masked 35 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: Brothers chocolate factory, they start with organic CACW beans, the 36 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: Mass Brothers. It's very artsy, fancy. Just as important as 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: that artsy packaging of the bars was the packaging of 38 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: the brothers themselves, Rick and Michael Mast, two young guys 39 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: with bushy red beards and Victorian clothing, slinging burlap sacks 40 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: of cocaw beans for the eager cameras. Mass Brothers chocolate 41 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. Rick, your place is a chocolate in urvana. Basically, 42 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: I love it. What makes you guys so different? Bot 43 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: making chocolate from scratch, all in house. We're bringing in 44 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: beans from all around all over the world. Right, So 45 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: like Brooklyn itself, it's a chocolate bar that's made up 46 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: of things from all around the world. So today we're 47 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: gonna show you how we make our Brooklyn blend. I 48 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: love the showt T. The aesthetic was ubiquitous at the time. 49 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: It was inescapable if you were, yeah, the bearded Brooklyn 50 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: bro selling, selling cheese or slicking cocktails. Suddenly, the Masks 51 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: had fawning coverage in the New York Times and bond appetite, 52 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: new shops in London and l a and a global 53 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: spotlight as America's breakout Kraft chocolate maker. Their glass walled 54 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: Williamsburg factory, where you could watch real live hipsters making chocolate, 55 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: became a tourist mecca. But there was a story. There 56 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: was that big story. I'm sure you know what it was. 57 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't remember. Yes, that's why I'm here. 58 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: Some people in the food world, the chocolate world are 59 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: calling them frauds, the Milli Vanilli of chocolate, which is 60 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: a very strong thing to say. They were re melting 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: other kinds of chocolate into their chocolate bars, especially in 62 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: the early days when they were claiming they were being 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: too bar chocolate alloys. That's just going against the purity 64 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: the nature of the very earnest looks in the Big 65 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Beard's essentially, a blogger for the website Dallas food dot 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: org broke the story that would bring the Mass Brothers down. 67 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: During their rise to fame, when they were the poster 68 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: beards for authenticity, they weren't actually making some of their 69 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: own chocolate. They were buying it from other companies, melting 70 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: it down, pouring it into their own molds, then wrapping 71 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: it up in old timey paper. At first, the Masks 72 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: denied everything, but eventually they are forced to acknowledge that 73 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: in their early years they'd been re melters. They claim 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: they've gone straight long ago, but the damage was done. 75 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: The shops disappeared, the factory shuttered, and the Masks themselves 76 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: faded away. That felt the end after that, like the 77 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: expossa had come out. They had been mocked relentlessly. Everything 78 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: closed down. It just it felt like it was officially over, 79 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: and so we all thought. But now here we are. 80 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: Look up at the storefront and tell me what I 81 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: see that We've got a hand painted window that says 82 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: masked Markets established, and there's a bunch of people inside. 83 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: It looks like the two thousand and eleven Brooklyn aesthetic 84 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: is alive and well. Yes, the masts are back, selling 85 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: chocolate and coffee and housewares and body soaps in a 86 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: squeaky clean space that could double as a Williams Sonoma. 87 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: The remelters have reformed, but don't be too quick to 88 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: blame the masts re melting style over substance. For all 89 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: the controversy in the world of big Chocolate, it that's 90 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: just business as usual. But to understand just how bad 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: it gets, we're going to have to head into the 92 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: belly of the beast. From Kaleidoscope and I Heeart podcasts. 93 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: This is Obsessions Wild Chocolate. I'm Roman Jacobson, Chapter four, 94 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: Big Bad Chocolate. All right, so let's actually let's turn 95 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: to We are old foods. Here, we are our whole foods. 96 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: Whole foods in Brooklyn right on on the planet one 97 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: of them. I'm with Clay Gordon, the creator and moderator 98 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: of the Chocolate Life dot com, which is the world's 99 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: biggest online community for chocolate fans. Clay teaches chocolate appreciation classes, 100 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: he consults with chocolate companies. He wrote A Great Guy 101 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: to Chocolate, and he was on the scene when the 102 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: masts had their big run. We all wanted them to 103 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: succeed right because they were m bringing bad chocolate, to 104 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: prefer from cheap industrial chocolate into craft chocolate, and um. 105 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: They were the people who were the gateway. People came 106 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: to them right and they were the introduction. This was 107 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: during that strange stretch of the two thousands when chocolate 108 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: suddenly became virtuous instead of a guilty treat. It pivoted 109 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: into a worldly earnest, possibly even healthy luxury. The candy 110 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: aisles exploded with snazzy bars advertising their high cocow percentage, 111 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: socially responsible business practices, and exotic cocau surces. Of course, 112 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: the first chocolate makers to do such bars really were 113 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: tiny operations that walk the walk, but it didn't take 114 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: long before they were joined in the virtuous section by 115 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: big chocolate. The handful of giant corporations that dominate the 116 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,239 Speaker 1: chocolate business. But to look at the shelves and whole foods, 117 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: you'd never know it. It's really really hard to understand 118 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: what it is we have presented here. So, for example, 119 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: there's a brand called Lilies, So Lili's is known for 120 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: sugar free chocolate. When most people look at a bar 121 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: of Lilies, they'll go, oh, it's fair trade, right right. 122 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: The other thing that's really important to know is that 123 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: the corporate parent of Lilies is Hershey Harsh Company. Yes, 124 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: Lilies is owned by Hershey, and it should be known 125 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: that Hershey is a name defendant in a lawsuit having 126 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: to do with um knowingly profiting from illegal labor in 127 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: West Africa. Chocolate, as you may or may not know, 128 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: has some serious issues. U S senators shared Brown and 129 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: Ron Wyden, arguing that there is evidence the Ivory Coast 130 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: relies on forced child labor to harvest coco instead of 131 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 1: attending school. These children so through cocoa beans on a plantation. 132 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: The Washington Post reported in June that more than two 133 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: million children were engaged in the practice on West African 134 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: cocoa farms. The big chocolate companies don't actually own cacao farms. 135 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: They are many links away at the other end of 136 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: the supply chain, and this makes it difficult to tell 137 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: where the coco originated. So their argument is that, hey, 138 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: we're just buying these beans from cargular whoever. The reality 139 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: is they got a pretty dark They have accepted responsibility, 140 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: many of them by signing Hrican Angle Protocol. They know 141 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: that these are issues. In a wave of news stories 142 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: exposed the shocking amount of child trafficking and slavery in 143 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: the Chocolate Trade Act in two thousand one, the US 144 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: Congress responded, led by Senator Tom Harkin and Representative Elliott Angle. 145 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: Together they introduced the idea of slapping a label on 146 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: chocolate products indicating whether or not the product was free 147 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: of child slave labor. We need a better commitment, a 148 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: stronger commitment from the chocolate industry worldwide. That's Tom Harkin. 149 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: Families need to know that when they buy chocolate in 150 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: whatever form, that a lot of that's being produced by 151 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: what is really an essence, child slavery. To no one's surprise, 152 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: the industry freaked out. Chocolate is a one billion dollar 153 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: business and a child slavery logo splashed across every candy bar. 154 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: Wouldn't exactly be great for sales. Big Talcola said, you 155 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: know what, we don't need you to enact loss. We 156 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: will take care of it ourselves. The problem ourselves, and 157 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: every time their self imposed deadline approach, they kicked the 158 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: cocoa pot down the road and they're five years. In 159 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: two thousand five, Big Chocolate promised to get child labor 160 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: out of the supply chain by two thousand ten. In 161 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: two thousand ten, they said they could do it. They 162 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: said that they couldn't even trace where most of their 163 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: coco comes from. The problem is that coco is a 164 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: commodity bought and sold by the shipload by traders in 165 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: New York and London, then stored in giant warehouses until 166 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: some company buys it. Between the farmer who grows it 167 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: and the chocolate bar on the supermarket shelf, it can 168 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: change hands a dozen times. It's nearly impossible to trace 169 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: that path. Not that some companies aren't trying, all right, 170 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: So now you're playing a Tony's chacolon um. They sold 171 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: over a hundred million dollars in chocolate. Tony's is a 172 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: Dutch company founded twenty years ago. With a singular mission 173 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: to eradicate slavery from the chocolate supply chain. Tony's groovy 174 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: Piece of Love packaging gives them this Ben and Jerry's vibe. 175 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: But there is a key difference. So Tony's is not 176 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: a chocolate maker. Tony's is a marketing company, right. They 177 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: produce chocolate bars from chocolate which is manufactured by someone else. 178 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: So the chocolate is manufactured for them by Barry Calibrats, 179 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: biggest biggest chocolate company in the world. That's Barry Calibo, 180 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: the goliath of chocolate makers, with more than sixty production 181 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: facilities around the globe and eight billion dollars in annual sales. 182 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: To their credit, Tony's purchases all their beings from seven 183 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: cooperatives in West Africa that they ensure are free of 184 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: slave labor, and they pay a premium to do that. 185 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: But the fact that the largest chocolate maker in the 186 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: world is making all of their chocolate for them makes 187 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: things complicated. The cocoa butter for this bar is probably 188 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: produced in the Calibut factory in West Africa. And why 189 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: is that a problem? Well, Calibut is one of the 190 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: name defendants in the trafficking victims protection reauthorization at lawsuit, 191 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: and so can we say that they're actually working to 192 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: eradicate slavery in the entire chocolate supply chain. They're trying, 193 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: for sure, but due to its ties to Barry call About, 194 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: Tony's was removed from an important list of slavery chocolate companies. 195 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: And Tony's isn't the only indie brand with ties to 196 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: Big Chocolate. Clay picked up another bar I want. I 197 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: had some history with chocolate up. These guys have been 198 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: around forever, so that was like the first serious dark 199 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: chocolate I started buying in like thees. Part of this 200 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: is looking at labels, so when you buy chocolate products, 201 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: you can be sure your purchase supports a better future 202 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: for coco farmers in their families. So chocolate love Very 203 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: kel about Choco them too, Yes, I didn't know that. 204 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: And so what they're doing is this claim about sustainable, social, 205 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: and ethical is based entirely on what Very kell About 206 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: is claiming that they're doing on the farm. So they're 207 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: they bary calibut, They're like, you're sustainable and ethical? Right? 208 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: He kept going other brands that you might see Justin's. Yeah, 209 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: for sure. Also Penetrate owned by Hormle Foods, the Endangered 210 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: Species chocolate company. They don't make chocolate. They are a 211 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: marketing company. The chocolate is made for them by another company. 212 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: Does anybody on the shelf make their own chocolate? I 213 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: believe well, I believe well theo they're the only ones. 214 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: By the time Clay had gone to the whole shelf, 215 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: it was clear that what the Mass brothers had done 216 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: it was just standard practice in the weird world of chocolate, 217 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: and Clay says, the chicanery goes all the way to 218 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: the top. Support you to know the Persha Hershi does 219 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: not manufacture chocolate at all at all anymore. They are 220 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: a candy company, not a chocolate company, and so the 221 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: chocolate for them. If you go to if you actually 222 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: go to Pershey, Pennsylvania, you will not find chocolate manufacturing anymore. Um. 223 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: They buy their chocolate in from big producers, car gil 224 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: companies like that, big producers. Um. When you go to 225 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: Hershey Park and you're like, ye, they're not They're not 226 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: making chocolate. That's also if this makes you want to 227 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: break free from the chocolate empire completely, you're not alone. 228 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: I just felt inherently like there was just something really 229 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: messed up with the system itself. But don't join the 230 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: resistance instead, and I wanted to build an alternative system. 231 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: Rad shotgun with a rebel commander on a risky mission. 232 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: After the break, Hey everyone, I want to taste of 233 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: some real wild chocolate. Delicious, nutritious and free of preservatives 234 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: or moral conundrums. We got you covered. Kaleidoscope has joined 235 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: forces with Louisa Abram and Statler Chocolate to make a 236 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: special box to go along with this very podcast. Now 237 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: you can say uful flavors from the banks of the 238 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: Amazon without having to fight off jaguars and anakondas. Just 239 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: visit www dot Stettler dash Chocolate dot com to order 240 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: your wild Chocolate today link in the show notes. So 241 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: what's the lifespan on one of these trucks doing doing 242 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: this kind of work? You managed to keep it going infinited, 243 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: Infinited with the right mechanic. I'm with Emily Stone and 244 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: Diane Coy. Emily is the founder of Uncommon Cacao, which 245 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: acts as a matchmaker for five thousand small farmers in 246 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: twelve countries and hundreds of being to bar chocolate makers 247 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: in the US. And Europe. Diane is the new managing 248 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: director of the Belize Business. She's a Kechi Maya who 249 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: grew up in the area and spent time as a 250 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: kid harvesting cocao with her parents. We're riding in a 251 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: rusty thirty three year old Ford f two fifty through 252 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: the back roads of Belie, buying kakao from farmers. So 253 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: everything we're seeing as my as part of the Maya 254 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Mountains or yeah, everything here this is sort of the 255 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: southern tip and then extends up towards Kyo. Really beautiful. 256 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: How many communities are resourcing kakao from that vand UM 257 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: tent to eat twenty eight communities in the Biomos. In 258 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: the late two thousand's, Emily was living in Boston working 259 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: on the campaign to pressure Hershey to address its child 260 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: slavery problem. But the more she watched big chocolates say 261 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: all the right things, the more she realized the system 262 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: was never going to change from within. There's no reason 263 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: for chocolate to be causing poverty. Um. It is the 264 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: leftover inheritance of colonialism and of a world in which 265 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: slavery was legal. So Emily decided to help build a 266 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: new system Her vision was to act as a matchmaker 267 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: for small farms and being to bar chocolate makers, to 268 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: cut out those twelve layers of intermediaries and deliver more 269 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: money to the farmers and better beans to the chocolate makers. 270 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: And she knew the place to start was the Americas, 271 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: which had the old varieties of cacao that the high 272 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: end chocolate community craved and no system for getting it 273 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: to market in good condition. In two thousand ten, she 274 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: moved to Belize and started talking to farmers. They told 275 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: her they needed an easier way to sell their beings 276 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: at a better price. She said, got it, So she 277 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: bought a beat up truck and offered to pick up 278 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: their beings right at the farm. Then she built a 279 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: professional fermentation station which would help her charge more for 280 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: these improved beings. Within a few years, farmers were getting 281 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: twice the price for their coca and My Mountain Beings 282 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: had become famous. But police alone was a drop in 283 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: the bucket. If she really wanted to build a more 284 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: just chocolate industry, she needed to expand, and she knew 285 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: where to go. I was hearing from people and police, 286 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, my cousins in Guatemala they have 287 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: like have you ever been to Guatemalad? And I had 288 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: it good over there, and then I get the bus 289 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: and you know, it was just kind of like asking her. 290 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, how did I get from here to here? 291 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: Anytime I got to the next bus station and everyone's 292 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: looking at me, like, who the f are you? Someone 293 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: like asked me. They're like, what do you here? I'm 294 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: here to you know, I'm here to look at cacao. 295 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden they all were like cocaw. 296 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, they've got we have a lot 297 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: of cacao. It's like, oh great, That's what I'm here for. 298 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: And literally, as the minibus was like making its way 299 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: up the mountain, we were stopping at every single person 300 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: on the bus as cacao, farm and student. She's meeting 301 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: everyone in the community and learning how important they were 302 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: to the history of chocolate. They were kept chi Maya 303 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: direct descendants of the people who had introduced chocolate to 304 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: Europe when they sign a friendly delegation to the Spanish 305 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: court bearing beans from these very hillsides. Emily had stumbled 306 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: into the heart of chocolate, an unbroken lineage going back 307 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: of years, but that didn't make their situation any easier. 308 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: Their market were um coyotes, which are basically intermediaries that 309 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: drive around these back roads with a stack of cash 310 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: and a handgun and they buy and a scale and 311 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: they buy whatever the farmers have to sell, whether that's corn, beans, cardamom, chili, cinnamon, cocao, allspice. Um, 312 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: there's no transparency around where that coca is going. There's 313 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: no technical assistance, and um there's no fermentation. It's all 314 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: washed cocao. So yeah, these producers were left without a market. 315 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: This was her dream scenario. The cocow varieties turned out 316 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: to be excellent old ones, but the cocao wasn't being 317 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: fermented at all. The farmers were just washing the pulp 318 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: off as soon as they opened the pods, drying the beans, 319 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: and selling them as fast as possible. The delicious flavors 320 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: that emerge with fermentation were never being given a chance 321 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: to develop, and it was all due to the dysfunctional market. 322 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: The coyotes were going to pay the same super low 323 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: price no matter what. So Emily jumped on the opportunity. 324 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: She moved to Guatemala, taught the farmers how to ferment 325 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: and drive properly bought the cacao for twice the going 326 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: rate and sold it directly to her growing list of 327 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: being too bar clients. But the coyotes did not take 328 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: this lying down. It's been a huge challenge for locally. 329 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's been there've been security issues they've been 330 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: so it has what kind of like what what kind 331 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: of challenge or what kind of security? There were physical 332 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: threats made to association members. The battle with the coyotes 333 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: came to a head after the government arranged to build 334 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: a new fermentation and drawing center for the farmers Association. 335 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: Emily wasn't directly involved, but she'd promised to buy the cacao, 336 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: which was a key to the deal. But one local 337 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: coyote was particularly unhappy about losing his turf, and when 338 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: the government representatives came to sign the paper or work, 339 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: they met a most unwelcome welcoming committee. Basically, this disgruntled 340 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: guy and his family surrounded the building where this signing 341 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: was happening, armed with machetes and threatened that if they 342 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: signed it like there would be violence, and so they 343 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: left without signing. The project never happens. The bad blood 344 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: continued for a couple of years, and the farmers warned 345 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: Emily and her team not to visit the coyote, and 346 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: sort of his family members were like, you know, if 347 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: those people come, it's not it's not going to be good. 348 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: But the fermentation center got built in the neighboring community, 349 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: and once it became clear to all the farmers how 350 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: much better the new system was, they made it very 351 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: clear to the coyote that the times they were changing. 352 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: We have found that over time there's there is a 353 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: circle of trust and security that is established by the 354 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: farmers themselves, and that the consequences for anyone who interferes 355 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: will be high. Since then, Guatemala has become a prized 356 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: source of cocao in the craft chocolate world. But that 357 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's an easy business. Bullets, razors, nails, cement, 358 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: you name it, it's been found in a cocao bag. 359 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: And sometimes Emily finds herself thinking more like Walter White 360 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: than Willy Wanka. So I don't like guns, and I've 361 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: never wanted us to have gotten to me. The idea 362 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: of having a gun owned by the company out in 363 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: the company vehicle, someone from the company, you know, having 364 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: the ability to use a gun is terrifying. But Guatemala 365 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: is one of the poorest and most dangerous countries in 366 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: the world, and a shipping container of cacao is worth 367 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars um. There have been instances 368 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: of coffee containers being robbed, um, you know, violently in Guatemala, 369 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: and so obviously want to ensure that our cocao does 370 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: not get stolen on its way to the port for export. 371 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: Uh So, yeah, we've got We've always got guys with 372 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: guns following our containers. I hope by now it's abundantly 373 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: clear that making great chocolate from responsibly sourced beans is really, 374 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: really hard, even when you're not dealing with guns and charlatan's. 375 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes you could do everything right and still fail. I 376 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: thought this was gonna taste amazing, and this was like 377 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: gonna be like the like the gold of the forest, 378 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: just asked Louisa Abraham, the young Brazilian chocolate maker who 379 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: began working with the Santo Daimi ayahuasca cult in the Amazon. 380 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: Louisa fell in love with the people. She paid fair 381 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: prices for their cocao. She did everything right. It ended 382 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: up being so crappy. It was just horrible what to 383 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: do when you've just made the worst chocolate in the world. 384 00:24:52,800 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: After the break, I I had fallen in love with 385 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: all the story, with all like the like it's so poetic, 386 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: like crossing Brazil to go to the forest, go deep 387 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: into the forest to get the wild cacao savage um 388 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: and and then to bring it back and to make chocolate. 389 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: It was just so enchanting for me. After meeting the 390 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: Sciento dim a cow collectors on the Peruce River, Louisa 391 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: Abraham devoted herself to making chocolate with the wild cocaw 392 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: of the Amazon. I want to do something with a purpose. 393 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: I want to impact others life. I want to like 394 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: believe my mark on this. So she and her dad 395 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: bought twenty kilos of cocao for the co op, stuffed 396 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: it into their extra luggage, and headed back to South Paula. 397 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: She built a micro chocolate factory in her parents utility closet, 398 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: and she roasted the beans in her tiny oven and 399 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: blew off the shells with a hair dryer and ground 400 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: them into a silky paste in her mini roller and 401 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: made her very first batch of wild Brazilian chocolate. And 402 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: when it had cooled She lifted a piece in her hand, 403 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: placed it on her tongue, closed her eyes, and that 404 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: the essence of the Amazon wash over her, and everything 405 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: tasted so awful for me. It was just so funky taste, 406 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: so like ammonia, and and so like unnatural. She ran 407 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: it by some others to make sure it wasn't just her. 408 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: I gave it to my chefs and to my colleagues 409 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: too to try, and they were like mocking of me, 410 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: like you went all the way too could to get 411 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: this piece of you know, like naturally. Louisa assumed that 412 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: she was the problem, and I was like, okay, maybe 413 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: I am the one doing it, doing something different. So 414 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: I changed the rulest profile. I changed, like the how 415 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: I was. I changed even I even my sugar. I changed. 416 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: I changed everything, and nothing would work. For the next 417 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: three years, she kept making chocolate with the paruce beans 418 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: because she was determined to make it work, but she 419 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: just couldn't get the taste dry. And while she managed 420 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: to get the chocolate into stores around Brazil on the 421 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: strength of the Wild Cocows Argent story, nobody ever reordered. 422 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: So what do you do when you put everything on 423 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: the line to become a great chocolate maker, and you 424 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: find yourself making terrible chocolate, Well you need a goog, 425 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: someone who could bind deep expertise with almost spiritual insight. 426 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: So Louisa summoned up her courage and sent a bar 427 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: to our old friend Mark Christian. It was a qualified disaster. 428 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: We don't need to get into all the particular details 429 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: of flaws. They were manifold, you know. Yep, her bar 430 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: sucked and he told her so. But hang on, there 431 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: was a shiny silver lining. You can see through the 432 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: beans right, No matter how poorly they're prepped, whatever their 433 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: post harvest is and so forth, the d NA, the 434 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: backbone of those seeds is still there. And what struck 435 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: me about that cacao and that bar she made It 436 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: was good enough that I thought this was the ultimate 437 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: dark milk chocolate, potentially without any dairy whatsoever. That's how 438 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: much it was cream puffing the oral chamber. Sorry, if 439 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: you've never had your oral chamber cream puffed, you might 440 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: not be familiar with the experience. But in the world 441 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: of chocolate, or at least the world of Mark Christian, 442 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: that's a good thing. Um, all that you know, earthen 443 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: milk dairy cream, and who doesn't like cream? I mean, 444 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, everybody likes cream. Everybody likes mama. Right, 445 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: So it was great, but it was masked. I mean, 446 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: you you had you could get the cream, but you 447 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: were getting a lot of other detritus with it, like 448 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: what you were getting the basics, such as um, cardboard, chalk, 449 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe even the black board itself was throwing. It was 450 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: all there. In other words, it's not you and it's 451 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: not your beans either. They seem kind of great, but 452 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: what's up with that fermentation? I told them there's something 453 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: there in that valley. You don't let it go, you know, 454 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: Let's get this right. Mark's recommendation was fix that fermentation, 455 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: get rid of all that funky ammonia, and you might 456 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: have something really special on your hands. So how do 457 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: you fix that? Well, remember Harvey kit Tell's character in 458 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: pulp fiction, the Cleaner. I saw problems. You need that 459 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: guy for cacao. It's funny. I almost feel guilty for 460 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: showing up and be like, seriously, this is what you 461 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: guys do. And he exists. Dan o'darty lives in Hawaii, 462 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: but he spends most of his time zipping around the 463 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: planet saving Cacal farmers from their own mistakes. Mark told 464 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: Louisa that Dan could make her problems go away. So 465 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: Louisa invited Dan to her factory and showed him the 466 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: cruise beans right away from the aroma, but also the 467 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: very dark, almost black, and the color. I knew that 468 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: there were problems. I mean, over from Kao has this 469 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: funky you know barn ardi. Um. I mean I describe 470 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: it as you know, somewhat manure, you know, like like 471 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: like cow manure smells um, I mean it tastes rotten. 472 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: So he started with some questions. How often do you 473 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: harvest the trees? What level of ripeness do you select? 474 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: What is the lag time between cutting a fruit from 475 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: the tree opening it? Is there a delay between opening 476 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: it and putting it into a box to ferment? How 477 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: often do you turn it? How long do you ferment it? 478 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: And how do you dry it? And and there's even 479 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: more substeps, and in Perus, the answer to pretty much 480 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: every one of those questions was wrong. These boats are 481 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: going up and down the river and collecting whole pods. 482 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: Some guys would take their pods, collect them in the 483 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: forest and put them on the river banks and they 484 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: just roast in the sun. Not good. Basically, it was 485 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: all amiss. The ayahuasca cult was picking overripe pods, and 486 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: then they were waiting too long to open the pods, 487 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: and then they were over fermenting the seeds. And Dan 488 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: had to break the news to them. You know, you 489 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: have to be gentle when you tell people. I mean, essentially, 490 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: what you've been doing all this time is wrong. We're 491 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: going to change pretty much every step. Every step. Pick 492 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: the pods earlier, open them right away, get those beans 493 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: in the fermentation boxes, unplugged the holes in the bottoms 494 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: of the boxes so they can drain, turn the piles 495 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: every day, keep them covered with banana leaves. But they 496 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: did it all, and when the new beans were ready, 497 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: Louisa tried not to get her hopes up. She just 498 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: made her chocolate like always. Then. I remember when I 499 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: first cat the chocolate in my mouth, it was like 500 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: it was like a drug. Oh it was amazing. I mean, 501 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: has like straight up dried blueberry notes like I had. 502 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: People tasted. They didn't I didn't prime them with anything, 503 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: and they were like, oh my god, it tastes like 504 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: you round dried blueberries into it. Finally, Louisa had a 505 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: fantastic new chocolate on her hands, and her company took off. 506 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: She added three other chocolates to her line, each coming 507 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: from a different Amazonian community with its own wild cocoutries, 508 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: and as it turned out, she had dialed her skills 509 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: just in time, because the kind of opportunity every Beamed 510 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: Bar chocolate maker dreams of was about to come her way, 511 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: and he was going to take everything She had to 512 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: pull it off. Next week on Obsessions Wild Chocolate, Man, 513 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: you must have been furious at a lot of people. 514 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: I had a little It was a sectional rage and 515 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: a pure rage. I would you know, with a gun 516 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: in my hands, that would have killed some people maybe, yeah, 517 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: Vulcar Layman. After years of dodging bullet after bullet in 518 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: the jungle, he was about to take one right in 519 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: the heart. Wild Chocolate is a Kaleidoscope production with I 520 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: Heart Podcasts, posted and reported by me Row Jacobson and 521 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: produced by Shane McKeon at Nice Marmat Media, Edited by 522 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: Kate Osborne and Mangesh haut A Kudor, sound design and 523 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: mixing by Soundboard. Original music composition by Spencer Stevenson a 524 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: k a Botton production help from Baheeny Shorty from My Heart. 525 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Katrina Norvelle and Nikki Etre. Special 526 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: thanks to Laura Mayor Costas, lnos Ozwalash and Aaron Kaufman, 527 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: Will Pearson, codel Burn, Bob Pittman, Daria Daniel and the 528 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: team at Stetler who are helping us make a very 529 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: special chocolate of our own. That's right, We're working with 530 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: Louisa at others to protect the rainforest and make delicious 531 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: Amazonian chocolate. Visit www dot Stetler dash Chocolate dot com 532 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: to taste it for yourself. That's www Dot Stetler dash 533 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: Chocolate dot com. And if you want to hear more 534 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: of this type of content, nothing is more important to 535 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: the creators here at Kaleidoscope than subscribers, ratings, and reviews. 536 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: Please spread the love wherever you listen.