Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am
Speaker 1: your host Rams' job. He is Ram Joh.
Speaker 2: I am fighting off a very very aggravating cough right now.
Speaker 2: I just had a very very soothing cup of tea
Speaker 2: and had a little halls meant to lift.
Speaker 1: This before that. Hopefully we can make it through this thing.
Speaker 2: But if y'all hear me struggling and just pray for
Speaker 2: your boy and it's a civic side.
Speaker 1: Yes, the one and only you word on the mic
Speaker 1: with us, And we got a lot to talk about today.
Speaker 1: If you've been paying attention to the internets, you know
Speaker 1: that we had to cover the Alabama river Front brawl.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I read and seen and heard a couple
Speaker 2: of things about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a big deal. So we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about that and why it's perhaps significant. We're also
Speaker 1: going to be talking about the country singer Jason al
Speaker 1: Dean with his song Try That in a Small Town.
Speaker 1: We unfortunately couldn't get to that last weekend just because
Speaker 1: of the way things time out, but we felt it
Speaker 1: was certainly appropriate for this week, considering there was an
Speaker 1: act of solidarity to try to get that song to
Speaker 1: number one. We'll talk about the data and the numbers
Speaker 1: prior to that song coming under fire and under public scrutiny,
Speaker 1: and then the conservative push to make it number one
Speaker 1: to like kind of double down on the messaging and
Speaker 1: the coded dog whistle kind of messaging of that song.
Speaker 1: So we're going to be talking about kind of what
Speaker 1: solidarity looks like and what to think about, what to
Speaker 1: consider and as always, we're trying to create better allies here.
Speaker 1: But these are some scary truths that we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to talk about, so bear with us, y'all. But first
Speaker 1: and foremost, we are going to start to show off,
Speaker 1: as we do with some Ebony Excellence. Showy we show.
Speaker 1: So today's Ebony Excellence is sponsored by Major Threads for
Speaker 1: innovative fashionable sportswear. Check major threads dot com. Today we're
Speaker 1: talking about Romeo Miller aka Masterpiece Son, and we're reading
Speaker 1: from that black enterprise. Romeo Miller partners with Tesla engineer
Speaker 1: to start electric car slash tech venture. All Right, Romeo
Speaker 1: Miller is making his name in the entrepreneurial space with
Speaker 1: his new tech venture, partnering with Richard Pattison, a former
Speaker 1: Tesla engineer who helped create its famed model s Sadan
Speaker 1: Miller will lend his business expertise and resources to the
Speaker 1: new business Tryon and Shango, described by Afrotech as a
Speaker 1: quote automotive and tech powerhouse that is committed to a
Speaker 1: green future. Quote. Tryan and Shango extends beyond the car
Speaker 1: industry to focus on environmental sustainability and advancement through technology.
Speaker 1: Will extend to electric homes so that every fast of
Speaker 1: life is greener while simultaneously being more efficient. Miller sung
Speaker 1: Patterson's praises as a groundbreaking automotive engineer and an Instagram post,
Speaker 1: adding that he is black history and there's a quote here.
Speaker 1: I always envisioned a future with one hundred percent green energy,
Speaker 1: and Richard has the innovations and I have the connections
Speaker 1: to make that possible. Detailed the father of two, He
Speaker 1: goes on to say, let's go to work, and I'm
Speaker 1: glad to be a part of the Tryon and Shango
Speaker 1: tech team. It's official. Y'all going to have to call
Speaker 1: me tech Bay now. Loll I'm assuming that was from
Speaker 1: a post somewhere, because normally people don't say, loll out
Speaker 1: loud but crowded, Romeo Miller, I think that's an Instagram capture. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll take it. And Yeah, anybody that's breaking new ground,
Speaker 1: anybody with an entrepreneurial spirit, anybody that is innovating and
Speaker 1: allowing for there to be a black seat at the table,
Speaker 1: We're going to applaud them. And so today it goes
Speaker 1: to Romeo Miller and Richard Patterson. All Right, we won't
Speaker 1: keep you waiting, so let's talk about this Montgomery river
Speaker 1: Boat riverboat brawl. I'm assuming that if you are to
Speaker 1: any degree tapped into the culture, that you've seen the videos.
Speaker 1: I myself, I don't like to watch videos of people fighting. Ever.
Speaker 1: The most I'll do is probably a boxing match because
Speaker 1: they have the gloves on and typically the people are
Speaker 1: okay at the end of it. But I don't enjoy
Speaker 1: seeing people get hurt. It never moved me at all.
Speaker 1: So I don't watch like the Ultimate Fights and the
Speaker 1: street fight videos. And when World Star Hip Hop was
Speaker 1: putting all those people fighting videos up, I just was
Speaker 1: It makes my stomach turn. It's like seeing people be
Speaker 1: mean to animals or something. It just doesn't do it
Speaker 1: for me. It's sick to me. If that's your thing,
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at you, but to me it I
Speaker 1: can't get jiggy with it. But this fight was everywhere,
Speaker 1: and once it started to go everywhere. Bear in mind too,
Speaker 1: that you're hearing this episode. We record the episode before
Speaker 1: you hear it, so we're going to give you as
Speaker 1: up to date information as we have in our thoughts
Speaker 1: on it. But you might be hearing this a few
Speaker 1: days after we record it, and so forgive us if
Speaker 1: it sounds a little dated, but this is kind of
Speaker 1: still happening right now, so we're going to do our
Speaker 1: best anyway. This video, or rather these several videos from
Speaker 1: different vantage points, were everywhere on social media, and so
Speaker 1: I don't want to describe the fighting, but I do
Speaker 1: want to try to understand why it's important. And Q
Speaker 1: and I we decided that we would have our first
Speaker 1: conversation about trying to figure out what was going on
Speaker 1: on the air for the benefit of you our list.
Speaker 1: So we haven't had this conversation yet, right you. We
Speaker 1: haven't exactly, So this is our first time kind of
Speaker 1: taking a stab at this of kind of what's going on.
Speaker 1: But I will kind of paint a small picture, very
Speaker 1: very small picture for you. Along. The short of it is,
Speaker 1: there was a boat of a big boat, I don't
Speaker 1: know what they're called, riverboat maybe riverboat, Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: trying to dock at its docking space. And there was
Speaker 1: a group of people who happened to be white. They
Speaker 1: were occupying the riverboat's docking space. The riverboat had a
Speaker 1: full crew, and on and on and on. A security
Speaker 1: guard jumps off of the riverboat or maybe you worked
Speaker 1: at the dock, I'm not sure, worked for the riverboat company.
Speaker 1: Who knows. But the security guard went and tried to
Speaker 1: get these folks to move their boat, the white folks
Speaker 1: to move their boat. This is very black and white brawl,
Speaker 1: which is kind of why it probably got so much attention.
Speaker 1: The security guard goes to the riverboat folks and says, hey,
Speaker 1: can you move your boat? They I guess, I guess
Speaker 1: they were like taking their time or just not moving
Speaker 1: it or not moving it fast enough. So the security guard,
Speaker 1: after having already told them that they need to move
Speaker 1: their boat, can't continue to keep the river boat waiting
Speaker 1: in the river. So he goes back and then just
Speaker 1: starts unhooking the boat to move it out of the way.
Speaker 1: That's when the people come that own the boat. There's
Speaker 1: a group of them again all white, and then they
Speaker 1: attacked the security guard and they jumped them. There's four
Speaker 1: or five people just beating up this this man. And
Speaker 1: then you know, afterwards, there was a lot of people
Speaker 1: witnessing him getting beat up for doing his job. A
Speaker 1: lot of these folks were black and they didn't like
Speaker 1: how that played out, so then they came to his
Speaker 1: defense and then hence the brawl, and it was very
Speaker 1: divided along racial lines. I want to so that's that's
Speaker 1: the long and short of the story. But I want
Speaker 1: to remind you that here on this show, we push
Speaker 1: and we'll always push for solidarity, fellowship, brotherhood, sisterhood, community
Speaker 1: and respecting and honoring each other across our cultural tribal
Speaker 1: lines and whatever. It doesn't matter what color you are.
Speaker 1: We think that you're our sisters and our brothers because
Speaker 1: the same consciousness that was given to you was given
Speaker 1: to me by the same source. Right, so we see
Speaker 1: that there's a lot more commonality than our differences, and
Speaker 1: we choose to produce this show from that space in
Speaker 1: our mind and hearts. Okay, now that we got a
Speaker 1: little bit of a picture painted your early thoughts. Q.
Speaker 2: I just want to first give our listeners some more context,
Speaker 2: because the video tells a story. It tells a pretty
Speaker 2: clear story by itself. Dennis Pickett, I think the brother's.
Speaker 3: Name was was the co captain of the riverboat, and
Speaker 3: because the riverboat could not dock, he had to get
Speaker 3: from the riverboat to the doc to ask these gentlemen
Speaker 3: to move their boat out of the way.
Speaker 2: They refused. The reasons why they refused are comically obvious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you're going to say. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say it. Then I'll say it. There's a
Speaker 1: first off, I think that this is a cultural moment
Speaker 1: for black people. So I was talking to a lady
Speaker 1: friend of mine. She's white. Okay, we asked our good
Speaker 1: friend of the show, Tessa Ferrell, to come up on
Speaker 1: the show, but she couldn't make it this week. But
Speaker 1: we wanted someone who was white to sit in on
Speaker 1: us while we have this conversation. But I did have
Speaker 1: this conversation. I asked a lady friend of mine, she's white,
Speaker 1: or she asked me, rather, why is this so special?
Speaker 1: Why is this so important? Why are people sharing this video.
Speaker 1: It's a fight I mean, never seen a fight video
Speaker 1: get this big before. And there's a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1: Obviously the scale, so there's all break bro whatever, and
Speaker 1: it's racial, right, But I think that the biggest reason
Speaker 1: that this fight video is so it's a cultural moment
Speaker 1: is because it shows solidarity, Black solidarity in the face
Speaker 1: of white Maybe oppression is not the best word, but
Speaker 1: white entitlement. That's the word I wanted to use when
Speaker 1: you were saying, you know exactly why they didn't want
Speaker 1: to move the boat is there's a sense of entitlement.
Speaker 1: This is something that black people brush up against with
Speaker 1: some frequency. This is why there's such a big pushback
Speaker 1: against Karen's quote unquote and then Kevin's. The male version
Speaker 1: of Karen's is that there's this sense of entitlement that
Speaker 1: you get to do whatever you want to do. I
Speaker 1: am a second class citizen and I'm relegated to the
Speaker 1: margins of society having to wait for you. You're hind
Speaker 1: is to finish whatever it is that you're doing, take
Speaker 1: your lion's share, or occupy whatever. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You can waste my time, you can smoke where there's
Speaker 1: no smoking whatever, whatever you don't like, you feel entitled
Speaker 1: to or whatever you do like, you feel entitled to
Speaker 1: be able to do it, even if the rules are
Speaker 1: firmly established. Right, this is a I thought this was America.
Speaker 1: That's something that typically that's a phrase typically associated with
Speaker 1: that sort of forgive me how this sounds, but that
Speaker 1: the white sort of entitlement that we've brushed up against
Speaker 1: in our lives. Now, nobody's blameless. Nobody gets through life blameless.
Speaker 1: Black people we do things. Hispanic people do things. We
Speaker 1: all do things, But that is something that's almost singularly
Speaker 1: a white male phenomenon. I thought this was America thing.
Speaker 1: And then with the Karens it's often something where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, like let me speak to the manager, like
Speaker 1: there's some kind of flipped on its head.
Speaker 2: It's not the white entitlement position of I can do
Speaker 2: whatever I want to do. It's you're doing something I
Speaker 2: don't think you should be able to that. Yeh, So
Speaker 2: I'm going to call the authority or ask for the manager,
Speaker 2: even if that's something is sitting and having a couple
Speaker 2: of coffee. Sure, sure, and it's that that type of energy.
Speaker 2: So maybe sometimes it's entitlement. Maybe sometimes it's like an overreach.
Speaker 2: I'm going to involve myself in some business that doesn't
Speaker 2: even concern me because I see somebody doing something that
Speaker 2: I don't agree with. In this case, was very, very
Speaker 2: flagrantly the entitlement. Yeah, I don't. First of all, I
Speaker 2: can do what I want because I fit the description right. Secondly,
Speaker 2: you're not going to be the person to tell me
Speaker 2: I can't do it anyway, even if there are signs
Speaker 2: that say I can't be here. I don't have to
Speaker 2: listen to you black man. Yeah, because I'm me white
Speaker 2: man and this is America.
Speaker 1: That's what Kramer said on Stay American South in Alabama.
Speaker 2: So yeah, my thoughts on it because I see a
Speaker 2: lot of people that are angry that people are celebrating this,
Speaker 2: and I think it's an intentional way of missing the
Speaker 2: point and completely ignoring how this thing started.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I don't know the proper phrasing, but it's something along
Speaker 2: the lines of if I punch you, I don't get
Speaker 2: to dictate how you respond to that. It's crazy, right
Speaker 2: if I hit you, but I didn't. I only hit
Speaker 2: you once, so you can't hit me back. Ten times. Well, sir,
Speaker 2: neither of us were bothering each other. Once you strike me,
Speaker 2: how I respond, it's your problem.
Speaker 1: Not mine. Right.
Speaker 2: This man was not attacked by a single person. This
Speaker 2: man was attacked and jumped or did not attack a
Speaker 2: single person. He was attacked, did not. He's not the
Speaker 2: aggressor or the attacker. He was simply doing his job
Speaker 2: and he was asking these men for forty five minutest.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you that part too, because the video
Speaker 2: might seem like he just walked up and said move
Speaker 2: and then they didn't move, so that he just started
Speaker 2: doing stuff.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: That was a forty five minute interaction of these gentlemen
Speaker 2: deciding we're not moving because we don't feel like it,
Speaker 2: and who are you to tell us to move?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that part's important. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty five minutes of them saying, we don't care
Speaker 2: what the rules are, and we don't care who you are,
Speaker 2: and we don't care about that boat, and we don't
Speaker 2: care about none of this because we're us and we
Speaker 2: could do what we want here in America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to continue down this line of thinking.
Speaker 1: So you got to think there's a white man who
Speaker 1: owns a boat, So that suggests there's some degree of mobility,
Speaker 1: which kind of exacerbates that entitlement condition being told by
Speaker 1: a black man that he has to dock a boat
Speaker 1: where there's a black I guess it was a party
Speaker 1: or something on the boat, the riverboat. So the it
Speaker 1: does exist, it's not as prominent, so you might not
Speaker 1: be able to draw from personal examples in your own
Speaker 1: life because it's not prominent enough for you to maybe
Speaker 1: have seen it with any real frequency. But being black,
Speaker 1: you definitely know that it's a thing because I'm Black
Speaker 1: every day of my life, so I brush up against
Speaker 1: black stuff the time. I'm the person often prompting the blackstone,
Speaker 1: And if you're not black, you might not have these
Speaker 1: apertures or these opportunities to see this type of subtle
Speaker 1: aggression that does happen with some frequency in black life.
Speaker 1: We are made to understand who we are and where
Speaker 1: we stand with a degree of frequency.
Speaker 2: I've also seen a lot of people upset that race
Speaker 2: was interjected into this story, right, But as if it's
Speaker 2: not obvious, So I'll tell that they don't see they
Speaker 2: told a story like this, right, because what you just
Speaker 2: said is important We've acknowledged before that there are some
Speaker 2: people by nature of not being black, that especially if
Speaker 2: they're a fluent and living in the neighborhoods or areas
Speaker 2: where they don't have neighbors or friends that are black,
Speaker 2: that are well to do, decent kind people that aren't racist,
Speaker 2: but that also never have any experience whatsoever what we're
Speaker 2: talking about, and they don't see it, so it doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: and or it doesn't affect them, so they don't have
Speaker 2: to acknowledge it and they don't see it every day,
Speaker 2: or they don't see it ever, even if they are
Speaker 2: aware that it exists. So I try to paint a
Speaker 2: different picture. Everybody's white. It's school kids. One of them
Speaker 2: is getting jumped by the school bullies. If all the
Speaker 2: other kids jumped in to help, everyone would understand why
Speaker 2: that's a win everyone except if the kid is black
Speaker 2: and the everyone that jumps into help is also black,
Speaker 2: then somehow they're the bad guys, and now that should
Speaker 2: not be celebrated. Then, so the idea that race doesn't
Speaker 2: belong here, like, what are we talking about? It's the
Speaker 2: only reason that there's a controversial position to have here.
Speaker 1: Right, you're either.
Speaker 2: Racist drastically ignorant, unattached, and unaware. If your position is
Speaker 2: opposite of a round of applause. For the bystanders who
Speaker 2: jumped in. These weren't this guy's friends. He wasn't in
Speaker 2: a gang. He didn't bring people with him to assault
Speaker 2: these people because he knew they were going to jump him.
Speaker 1: No, he worked there.
Speaker 2: A gentleman doing his job was jumped by a group
Speaker 2: of people. The bystanders saw this and helped him. The
Speaker 2: story is that sense.
Speaker 1: So let me help for the benefit of our listeners again.
Speaker 1: I'm Ramses. I live in Phoenix. I don't live in Alabama.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who does. But if I saw
Speaker 1: those white men and women jump that black man, after
Speaker 1: seeing them stall for forty five minutes, I would know
Speaker 1: exactly what was happening there. I don't need to know
Speaker 1: that man in order to defend him, because I've been
Speaker 1: in that position, my family's been in that position, We've
Speaker 1: all been in that position. I know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 1: They're hurting that man because they feel like they can
Speaker 1: do it and they can get away with it. That's it,
Speaker 1: and I can't make that live in your head. You
Speaker 1: have to take my word for it, as your brother,
Speaker 1: it is a real thing, except in this case, they
Speaker 1: don't have to take your word for it. It's on visa. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they saw it. That was the response.
Speaker 2: And that's the singular reason why I can hurt this
Speaker 2: name because I feel like it and nothing's gonna happen
Speaker 2: to right right right if the brilliant thing about it
Speaker 2: taking forty five minutes, those people that showed up were there.
Speaker 2: They just couldn't get to the guy. So they witnessed
Speaker 2: him get beat up. Not just get beat up, but
Speaker 2: but just before it was physically jumping. He was being bullied,
Speaker 2: even before they touched him. Right, listen, you guys, I'm
Speaker 2: the captain of this ship that's trying to dock here,
Speaker 2: or this boat that's trying to dock here, and I
Speaker 2: just need you guys to move. You don't have to
Speaker 2: go home, you don't you know what I mean. You
Speaker 2: don't have to get out, you don't have to. I
Speaker 2: just need you guys to move.
Speaker 1: Because this is this is our parking spot. This is
Speaker 1: where we se a big boat out there. This is
Speaker 1: where we need to do.
Speaker 2: This boat with all these people on it who now
Speaker 2: need to get off that's all. They didn't feel like it.
Speaker 2: They didn't want to. And once again, you have to
Speaker 2: go there to know that we don't have to move
Speaker 2: specifically because you're the one asking. I believe if the
Speaker 2: white captain of the Harriet two riverboat asked those white
Speaker 2: men to move, understanding that they were in the wrong
Speaker 2: because you're in the wrong, they would have.
Speaker 1: There's less of that, there's less of that power dynamic
Speaker 1: when white is not a factor or the race is
Speaker 1: not a factor. Now I do want to I want
Speaker 1: to add this. They were in the Deep South. They
Speaker 1: were in Alabama, so historically that frames this this conversation.
Speaker 2: And before you go rams if you feel like what
Speaker 2: I just said was wrong, right, even if the captain
Speaker 2: was white and got off an ask and they still
Speaker 2: would have said no, Now you're actually doubling down on
Speaker 2: why these men were so far out of pockets so
Speaker 2: just blatantly and flagrantly wrong. Well, you know what, what
Speaker 2: every decision that they made that day.
Speaker 1: One of the things I've had to learn in just
Speaker 1: dealing with people that I know personally in the conversations
Speaker 1: that I have because I have a lot of friends
Speaker 1: now after doing the show that come to me for stuff,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey man, so this thing happened. How
Speaker 1: do I make sense of it? How do I make
Speaker 1: heads or tails of it? Some things you just have
Speaker 1: to Believe me. I'm not lying to you. Who would
Speaker 1: want to be born like this and have to fight
Speaker 1: for stuff their whole life? Who wants that? I want
Speaker 1: to happy. I want to be on a beach. I
Speaker 1: want to have fun. I don't want to What kind
Speaker 1: of life is that to be born to fight? Well,
Speaker 1: you think I enjoy this.
Speaker 2: We have to be careful even when we're having fun.
Speaker 2: Thank you just being alive.
Speaker 1: So believe me when I say that some things you're
Speaker 1: just going to have to You're gonna have to take
Speaker 1: my word for you to have to trust me. I'm
Speaker 1: not making it up right now. Another thing I do
Speaker 1: want to point out here is that there's another thing
Speaker 1: that kind of underscores this brawl, and that is we've
Speaker 1: seen videos for years. Remember Trayvon Martin was killed in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. That was the beginning of the Black Lives
Speaker 1: Matter hashtag and movement. Twenty twenty was when George Floyd happens.
Speaker 1: There was an eight year gap there and in between
Speaker 1: that a lot of people forget it wasn't just uh
Speaker 1: tray Von and then George Floyd. Police were killing everybody
Speaker 1: all the time on video all the time. I work
Speaker 1: in radio and I was doing hip hop radio. So
Speaker 1: I did my best to talk about every single one
Speaker 1: of those people who died, and they couldn't tell their
Speaker 1: own stories right.
Speaker 2: Likewise, we got a lot of pushback about that.
Speaker 1: Exactly. I remember how me and you worked together, George
Speaker 1: fo Right. So so anyway, something that kind of underscores
Speaker 1: this brawl here is that you have now a group
Speaker 1: of people who are sensitive in a brand new way
Speaker 1: to anti black violence. We've witnessed it on video over
Speaker 1: and over and over and over in filando and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I mentioned Treymon, and before twenty twenty, we
Speaker 1: had why do all these names always escape me? Tony,
Speaker 1: I can't help you too many? Well, okay, I can't
Speaker 1: sit here No I'm not joking.
Speaker 2: I can't sit here and recall all of those names,
Speaker 2: even if they seem synonymous with what we're talking about,
Speaker 2: even though they seem like they should live in our headspace.
Speaker 2: There's a dumbness that we have to develop or we
Speaker 2: would lose our mind, because if we wanted to do
Speaker 2: every show about police killing one of us unarmed, we
Speaker 2: could Every show we've ever done could have been about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a new person every time. I'm not talking about talking
Speaker 2: about Brianna again, We're talking about Trayvon again, We're talking
Speaker 2: about again, I'm talking about a new story. If we
Speaker 2: just I could find you one right now, how about that.
Speaker 1: I know we have the list, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: we're not covering so that we can talk about this
Speaker 1: Ramases and I.
Speaker 2: Too, for you guys to see us in public and
Speaker 2: meet us and see us smile. It is a task
Speaker 2: because we get enough content in this space for every
Speaker 2: show we do to be about that, and we still
Speaker 2: couldn't get to all.
Speaker 1: Of them, not at all, not even close. Well, suffice
Speaker 1: to say that this moment, this riverboat moment, was the
Speaker 1: result of us as a people seeing a response, a
Speaker 1: worthy response to anti black violence. And so a lot
Speaker 1: of times in our history we've been like we shall
Speaker 1: over come, you know, We've been like, Okay, our changes
Speaker 1: are going to come around the corner, that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: and this one was kind of like direct action. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's what kind of made it important
Speaker 1: so to my friend that I had the conversation with.
Speaker 1: I think that somewhere in the middle here is the truth.
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't condone violence, but there's a framework for
Speaker 1: you