WEBVTT - From Blackrock to Uniswap

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg Views,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heard podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, July twenty. Mary Catherine Later has a story

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<v Speaker 1>to tell. She was a rising star at black Rock

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<v Speaker 1>when she left Wall Street and traditional finance for crypto

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<v Speaker 1>and decentralized finance. She's now chief operating officer at unit

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<v Speaker 1>swap Labs, creator of the world's biggest decentralized exchange protocol.

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Catherine joined my colleague Bloomberg reporter Olga Karif to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about her belief in blockchain, what comes next after

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<v Speaker 1>the terror collapse, and how she sees defy shaping the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's that conversation. Mary Catherine A. Later is here with

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<v Speaker 1>us MC. So appreciate you taking the time. Let's start

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<v Speaker 1>by talking a little bit about your career and how

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<v Speaker 1>you ended up in crypto. So, I know you got

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<v Speaker 1>your start at Goldman, Uh, could you possibly walk us

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<v Speaker 1>through the twists in turns of your career and sort

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<v Speaker 1>of how you initially got into crypto. Well, first, thanks

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<v Speaker 1>so much for having me. You're right, I started my

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<v Speaker 1>career at Goldman Sachs in a completely different time, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I had grown up always wanting to be at

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<v Speaker 1>the intersection of how the economy works in technology and

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<v Speaker 1>just felt like the Internet was the most important thing

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<v Speaker 1>in my lifetime. And I ended up um in a

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<v Speaker 1>job that wasn't doing tech investing in Goldman Sachs um

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<v Speaker 1>and my second week is when Lehman Brothers collapsed, and

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<v Speaker 1>so it was a front row seat to how the

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<v Speaker 1>risk management of large financial institutions could have just a

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<v Speaker 1>dramatic domino effect on so many people who didn't even

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<v Speaker 1>think about the connection they might have to the global

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<v Speaker 1>financial system. And so after a few years at Goldman,

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<v Speaker 1>I went to law school and business school thinking that

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<v Speaker 1>there could be policy solutions to how the financial system

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<v Speaker 1>could work better, and then also maybe tech might be

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<v Speaker 1>a driver of more access and ultimately did a fintech startup,

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<v Speaker 1>then landed up black Rock. My fintech startup failed and

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<v Speaker 1>I shut it down. It was when I was a

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<v Speaker 1>black Rock, I think in my first or second week

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<v Speaker 1>there that Larry Thanks, the founder and CEO, made some

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<v Speaker 1>comments about how blockchain and crypto were used for money laundering,

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<v Speaker 1>and I first gotten interested in bitcoin in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>eleven as a law student because it really interested in

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<v Speaker 1>how the Internet was creating more access to technology and

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<v Speaker 1>financial services. And I had a seminar where we were

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<v Speaker 1>reading about open source systems and the sort of legal

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<v Speaker 1>implications of them, and I learned about bitcoin. So when

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<v Speaker 1>Larry made these comments, I wrote, in sort of an

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<v Speaker 1>impertinent moment, I wrote a memo as to what I

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<v Speaker 1>thought should be different in what black Rock should be

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<v Speaker 1>doing in blockchain. And I didn't think anything of it

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<v Speaker 1>except that I hope somebody listened to me, and it

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<v Speaker 1>got forwarded to senior management, and you know, they then

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<v Speaker 1>after a few meetings, were like, okay, you figured this out,

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<v Speaker 1>and so with with a group of other people, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we've created working open and create a little lab of

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<v Speaker 1>engineers who volunteered to start building prototypes. So that was

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<v Speaker 1>we worked with Consensus and the Ethereum Foundation to do

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<v Speaker 1>an Ethereum smart contract prototype. We worked with some of

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<v Speaker 1>the different consortion groups that were being formed at the

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<v Speaker 1>time to get big financial institutions interested in blockchain and

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<v Speaker 1>the applications. We did work around how bank loans could

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<v Speaker 1>be on block chains and how equity trading and derivative

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<v Speaker 1>settlement could be different. That got me hooked six months

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<v Speaker 1>of my full time focus the black Rock and then

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<v Speaker 1>moved on to other roles building fintech businesses for black Rock,

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<v Speaker 1>but I still kept a foot in crypto. And what changed,

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<v Speaker 1>I think a year ago was that we moved from

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<v Speaker 1>a time of most of the energy in the crypto

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<v Speaker 1>ecosystem being focused on building core infrastructure to a time

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<v Speaker 1>when you could start to build applications and businesses on

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<v Speaker 1>top of that infrastructure. And so to me, it felt

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<v Speaker 1>like the right time to make the jump and make

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<v Speaker 1>the move to work in crypto and web three full time.

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<v Speaker 1>A quid check of lateness business slash headlines Bitcoin US

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<v Speaker 1>through sixty dollars as a stimulus fueled valley of the

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<v Speaker 1>past few months of sets concerns over speculation. Bitcoin has

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<v Speaker 1>surged over the past year, lifted in part by support

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<v Speaker 1>from Elon Musk and some in the corporate world. The

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<v Speaker 1>original digital coin traded for just a few cents for

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<v Speaker 1>several years after its debut a decade ago. It is

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<v Speaker 1>now gained more than a thousand percent in twelve months.

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<v Speaker 1>You made the move to unit swap, the world's biggest

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<v Speaker 1>decentralized exchange protocol during sort of the bullmarket in crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a very different situation than sort of what

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<v Speaker 1>we are seeing today, and you alluded that it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of in many ways similar to the financial crisis of

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<v Speaker 1>when you were at Goldman and I was wondering so today,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just in the last couple of months, we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen high profile firms go insolvent announcing bankruptcy. Crypto prices

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<v Speaker 1>have fallen a lot. Has that shaken your convictions about

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<v Speaker 1>defy And how are your thoughts about defy and it's

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<v Speaker 1>promised different if they are from from a year ago

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<v Speaker 1>when you meet this jump from traditional finance into decentralized finance.

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<v Speaker 1>I jumped to you know, swap in particular because I

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<v Speaker 1>felt like it was revolutionary technology that could have a

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<v Speaker 1>positive impact on the financial system, regardless of the market dynamics,

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<v Speaker 1>regardless of whether token prices were up or down, but

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<v Speaker 1>that the idea that anyone in the world can create

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<v Speaker 1>a market for anything, and that anyone can be a

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<v Speaker 1>market maker using code, and that that could be more

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<v Speaker 1>efficient and as effective as a central intermediary was compelling

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<v Speaker 1>to me. After fifteen years in finance, and I still

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<v Speaker 1>believe has huge potential. Interestingly enough, I am really optimistic

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<v Speaker 1>that we'll see more or at least a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>partnership and innovation with big players in finance. If we're

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<v Speaker 1>in a bear market, certainly a different time than we

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<v Speaker 1>were a year ago. For crypto, it's still a good

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<v Speaker 1>time to be building and innovating. There's almost like less

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<v Speaker 1>distraction from the frenzy of the market dynamic and then

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<v Speaker 1>there was a year ago. And so I'm really excited

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a time when we can focus on

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<v Speaker 1>which companies are good actors with real technology and not

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<v Speaker 1>just writing a wave and not just excited about the

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<v Speaker 1>hype and driven by momentum. When I was deciding whether

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<v Speaker 1>to join units WEP full time, I thought really hard

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<v Speaker 1>about what the opportunity for the company and the protocol,

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<v Speaker 1>which are related but different, would be in any market condition.

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<v Speaker 1>You often talk about how decentralized finance will essentially change

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<v Speaker 1>the way traditional finance works. Would you maybe talk a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about that, and what do you think the

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<v Speaker 1>world will look like as the shift takes place, How

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<v Speaker 1>will things look differently, you know, in a few years,

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<v Speaker 1>and also how will some of the difficult things. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the challenges that crypto is going through right now

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<v Speaker 1>with a lot of insolvency and bankruptcy issues, how will

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<v Speaker 1>that impact how things develop? Well, first of all, the

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<v Speaker 1>insolvency and bankruptcy issues aren't really decentralized finances, as you

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<v Speaker 1>know really well from from covering this. We're seeing right

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<v Speaker 1>now is how centralized companies that we're managing balance sheets

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do a good job of managing their own risk

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<v Speaker 1>and weren't disclosing the risk to users and investors. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think that actors who are taking on those kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of risks need to be treated similarly to anyone who's

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<v Speaker 1>managing a balance sheet and managing client assets. So to me,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not decentralized finance. That's not defied, that's not about

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<v Speaker 1>changing the underlying technology. Those are almost traditional in some senses,

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<v Speaker 1>traditional financial forms that happened to be managing cryptos and

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<v Speaker 1>asset class and they did a bad job and they're failing,

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<v Speaker 1>just as there were in the early days of the Internet.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a huge task ahead of us as a

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<v Speaker 1>as a field to reduce spam, to reduce phishing, to

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<v Speaker 1>reduce potential risks, to those who are interacting in Web

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<v Speaker 1>three and the sort of decentralized applications and protocols. But

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<v Speaker 1>that is part of what I know. You can Swap

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<v Speaker 1>labs were in investing in and we are looking at

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<v Speaker 1>different ways to screen tokens for risk. We're looking at

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<v Speaker 1>different ways to identify what's called a rug pole when

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<v Speaker 1>somebody could manipulate the market and drive down the price

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<v Speaker 1>of a token. The good news is that because all

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<v Speaker 1>this activity is on chain, you have so much more

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<v Speaker 1>data to work with, and so you can identify bad

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<v Speaker 1>behavior quickly and transparently, and you can build models that

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<v Speaker 1>can then detect that kind of I'm bad behavior. So

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways, I hope that some of the positive

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<v Speaker 1>changes are not even observable to individuals who just might

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<v Speaker 1>be like saving and investing or two individuals who are

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<v Speaker 1>trying to reach communities through token communities for example. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope that some of what feels safe about today's financial

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<v Speaker 1>system is replicated, but with really different structures from making

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<v Speaker 1>for creating safety and more technology driven solutions for creating

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<v Speaker 1>some of that safety. Will be right back with more

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<v Speaker 1>from Lamoug Reports, Ogakarif and Unit Swaps CEO Mary Catherine later,

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<v Speaker 1>one of your strategic goals at unit swap is to

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<v Speaker 1>make wol Street more comfortable with decentralized finance and to

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<v Speaker 1>bring them on board. And I was wondering, how has

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<v Speaker 1>woll Street reacted to the recent events in crypto. Is

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<v Speaker 1>it more difficult to persuade them to sort of join

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<v Speaker 1>decentralized finance. There are many leaders in traditional financial services

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<v Speaker 1>who are familiar with blockchain and have been thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>it for years and know what the opportunities are. Every

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<v Speaker 1>time I explained to someone who spent their career in

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<v Speaker 1>finance what unit swap is and how it works that

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<v Speaker 1>they could take tokens that they own and deposit them

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<v Speaker 1>on a protocol and start to get the fees from

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<v Speaker 1>trades from which they're providing liquidity. The notion that code

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<v Speaker 1>could be a market maker kind of blows people's minds.

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<v Speaker 1>So I haven't noticed a change in people's reactions. Some weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>it's felt like a little bit more interest from people

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<v Speaker 1>who could partner with us and use the technology. I

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<v Speaker 1>wonder if there's less of like a cultural resistance because

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<v Speaker 1>you have to focus on technology right now. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>just about like token prices being up into the right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really interesting. So there is actually more interest because

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<v Speaker 1>maybe some of the Wall Street firms that are coming

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<v Speaker 1>in are in there not because of speculation, but because

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<v Speaker 1>they want to deploy this for specific business purposes where

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<v Speaker 1>the blockchain technology could be helpful or more efficient. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's consistent with what you know we're trying to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Like our mission is to unlock universal ownership and exchange,

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<v Speaker 1>and that means more people, more assets, more partners, and

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<v Speaker 1>that means our technology has to be global financial system scale,

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<v Speaker 1>and it has to be safe and it has to

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<v Speaker 1>be simple. That does not mean that we that like

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<v Speaker 1>un swap for example, is identifying what assets should be

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<v Speaker 1>supported by the technology, and players in traditional finance have

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<v Speaker 1>no shortage of assets that might benefit from being on chain,

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<v Speaker 1>from transparent systems, from uh simplifying the number of players

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<v Speaker 1>and and and intermediaries were in a given trade. So

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<v Speaker 1>some of the challenge is that changing the infrastructure of

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<v Speaker 1>financial sert US is also means cutting someone's revenue stream

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<v Speaker 1>and changing the incentives. But ultimately, if we end up

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<v Speaker 1>having like somewhat more consistent infrastructure across different asset classes,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's a really positive outcome, and there's plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of people on Well Street who are excited about that,

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<v Speaker 1>and are they waiting for sort of more regulatory certainty

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of, you know, how things shake out and

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<v Speaker 1>what exactly do you think are some of the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>issues that are they're waiting to get resolved in what's

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<v Speaker 1>your sense as to how soon they would get resolved.

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<v Speaker 1>We're spending a lot of time thinking about the right

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<v Speaker 1>policy outcomes, because I think the most important thing is

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<v Speaker 1>that we have policies that protect investors effectively, that can

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<v Speaker 1>reduce fraud, but not to regulate code that has the

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<v Speaker 1>potential to be extremely positive for so many people and

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<v Speaker 1>to really um serve the interests of policymakers. So we

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<v Speaker 1>tired recently ahead of policy, and we're spending a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time thinking about the right kinds of policies that

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<v Speaker 1>can achieve those objectives protect people, keep them safe, but

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<v Speaker 1>also mean that we don't quash the innovation of these

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<v Speaker 1>decentialized protocols. So regulating n f T s is like

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<v Speaker 1>regulating PDFs or regulating you know, an fungible token, which

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<v Speaker 1>is what unit swap supports today, is like regulating again

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<v Speaker 1>like a dot dot or something like that, and so

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<v Speaker 1>that's not really the right lens. It's like, what is

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<v Speaker 1>that file format trying to do? What is that format

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<v Speaker 1>for value trying to accomplish? And one of the risks

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<v Speaker 1>associate with it. So we need to kind of evolve

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<v Speaker 1>the way that we're thinking about it and not be

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<v Speaker 1>as simplistic as just bucketting all tokens and all n

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<v Speaker 1>f t s together and assuming that they need some

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<v Speaker 1>more regulatory treatment. Really interesting that we continue to see

0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the fallout of the Terra collapse. Really we are getting

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 1>coin market Cap website, for example, saying that the wipe

0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 1>out of wealth has been around two hundred billion dollars

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.400
<v Speaker 1>in twenty four hour time periods. So really, the gyrations

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.360
<v Speaker 1>in the crypto space have been huge with kind of

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 1>the recent events where you know a lot of people

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.840
<v Speaker 1>have lost money through just the coin values dropping, or

0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>through fraud or insolvents of some companies. Are you concerned

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 1>that this would lead to a tightening of the regulatory

0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.400
<v Speaker 1>oversight and the regulatory environment to the point where innovation

0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 1>is stifled and how do you think you can prepare

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 1>for something like this? Well, smart regulation is going to

0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.240
<v Speaker 1>be really important for the whole fields growth. Having rules

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 1>that create clarity is only positive for the companies that

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 1>are building in Web three in terms of how we

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:29.119
<v Speaker 1>can help make sure that we end up with smart regulation.

0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.679
<v Speaker 1>As I said, we're not waiting. We're already building stuff

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that we hope helps serve some of those policy aims. Right,

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.400
<v Speaker 1>So I mentioned that we have a team now of

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 1>data scientists that are looking at how to screen tokens

0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 1>to identify their level of risk. So one example is,

0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, our system flagged the lunar coin and terra

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 1>as riskier than um etherory, for example, and like it

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 1>would have given a user a warning to that effect.

0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 1>And I think the best thing we can all be

0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.319
<v Speaker 1>doing is just explaining what the benefits are more clearly,

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>right um, why the technology is useful, and then also

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to build products and features that make the whole

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>system better. In general, traditional assets that could trade on

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 1>UNITSWAP could include everything from like real estate to company

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 1>shares to those kind of things. Right well, in theory,

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.800
<v Speaker 1>because the token is just a file format, you could

0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>start to represent any kind of asset as a token,

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 1>right And so you know, from the time when I

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 1>first started working, when I was a black rocking crypto

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>part time. And there's been excitement about tokenizing real estate

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>or tokenizing bank loans or you know, having all kinds

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.000
<v Speaker 1>of different assets in the black chain, and there are

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 1>really specific reasons why those things don't work, because, for example,

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of assets where people make money on the

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>time that it takes to trade in the time that

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:47.600
<v Speaker 1>it takes to settle, and so there's not a lot

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>of incentive to have those things settle and trade fast.

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Or for example, you know, I'm not suggesting that that

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 1>we need to have a wholesale transition of how all

0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 1>markets work if we don't need to. There definitely are areas,

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 1>like you think about long tail fixed income, so like

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 1>not very frequently traded bonds or small cap stocks and

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>things like that, where if you have the ability to

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 1>boots drap liquidity, that could be really advantageous. For example,

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 1>for like the major e t F fishuers who to

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 1>trade e t fs that include fractions of those assets

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 1>um but effectively, then what happens is the e t

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.200
<v Speaker 1>f n's up pricing those assets as opposed to the

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 1>trading of the underlying primary themselves. So that's just like

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>one small example, and I think it's excitement about that

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>is part of why UM Stacy Cunningham, it was the

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 1>most recent president of the New York Stock Exchange until December,

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>joined us and as an advisor because she was excited

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 1>about different current use cases that could be moved from

0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 1>traditional finance UM to crypto. But we're not in the

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>business of accelerating a lot of that right now. We're

0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 1>trying to just invest in the core technology and driving

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>education about it and then as I mentioned, a lot

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.600
<v Speaker 1>and making it simpler and safer to use. So if

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>we were to look at ten years from now, what

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 1>do you think traditional finance and and defy will look

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 1>like and how will it be different from today? Well,

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>I've been around crypto Longe enough to know that it's

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 1>really foolish to make any projections, So I'll just say

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.120
<v Speaker 1>I hope it's much bigger. I hope it's much safer.

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.200
<v Speaker 1>I hope there's a lot more women in the whole space,

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 1>and I'm optimistic that that will be a positive outcome

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 1>for how the global financial system works. But who knows.

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 1>On one time for him, thank you so much, thank you,

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 1>thank you, thank you, Olga for taking us inside of

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Unit Swap and thank you Mary Catherine for being a

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.360
<v Speaker 1>guest on the show. You can find Olga's reporting on

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg terminal on Bloomberg dot com, or follow Ulga

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.400
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at Olga karif that's k H A R

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>I F. There's an old joke in finance. When companies fight,

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.480
<v Speaker 1>lawyers win, and right now in crypto, lots of companies

0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>are fighting, some for their corporate lives. Kirk Lindon Ellis,

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest law firms in the world by revenue,

0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 1>has emerged as a major player in crypto. Earlier this month,

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the firm signed on to work on the bankruptcy filings

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 1>for both Celsius Network and Voyage of Digital. There's relatively

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 1>little case law that addresses how crypto assets and their

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.280
<v Speaker 1>holders should be treated in a bankruptcy. For more on this,

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:25.760
<v Speaker 1>you'll hear from Bloomberg reporter Jeremy Hill. I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael,

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.359
<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg

0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I heart Radio,

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 1>visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts. Email your questions comments or suggestions

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.119
<v Speaker 1>for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net, and

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>you'll find us on Twitter at Crypto. The supervising producer

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.399
<v Speaker 1>of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergalina. Our senior producer is

0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Janet Babin. Our producer is Mohammed Ferup. Our producer is

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 1>Sharon Burriro, associate producer is Mosses and um Desta wander

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.120
<v Speaker 1>Ad is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrin