1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From House to 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And before we go any further, Caroline, 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: we need to thank listener Jennifer for this podcast we're 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: gonna do on filial piety, which is a Chinese cornerstone 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: of family life and child rearing. And Jennifer wrote into 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: us saying, hey, you should look into filial piety, and 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: she also sent us a ton of scholarly research that 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: has been done on filial piety. And there is no 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: faster way to our hearts than to send us an 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: email full of journal articles. That's right, Yeah, I learned 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff about Chinese families I never knew, right, 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: because I feel like so often on the podcast, obviously 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: we focus on Western families, western parenting, whereas this whole 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: filial piety thing first came into the news. I would 16 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: stay with Amy Chewa a couple of years ago, who 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: wrote The Battle Him of the Tiger Mother and started 18 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: this whole debate with an excerpt that was published in 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal where which was titled why Chinese 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: mothers are superior? And all these Western moms were like, 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: oh what um, but a lot of the stuff that 22 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: she talks about is loosely based on filial piety. And 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: then even more recently, I heard on NPR that starting 24 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: this summer in two thousand thirteen, the Chinese government is 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: going to be allowing parents to sue their adult children 26 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: for violating filial piety. Essentially, they're not taking care of 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: their elderly parents, Well enough, you're gonna get sued kids. Yeah, 28 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting that that idea is so embedded 29 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: in their culture that suing your own children overtaking care 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: of you would even be an option because I know, 31 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: for instance, my parents would not ever think in those terms. 32 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: You know, my dad is a big planner of financial guy, 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: so you know he has all these things set up 34 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: to protect him and and my mom when they get older. 35 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: They would never think that it would be their daughter's 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: responsibility to take care of them. Yeah. A lot of 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: times that we think of family litigation, it's more the 38 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: kids taking their parents to task in court. But in 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: China it's a unique situation because by enforcing in a sense, 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: filial piety, it's a way of providing a safety net 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: for the massive population of seniors, which is expected to 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: grow by nearly five hundred million people in the next 43 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: forty years. So the government saying, hey, you know what, 44 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: we can't take the entire cost of that burden, so kids, hey, 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: step up. Because filial piety has been such a foundational 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: tradition for centuries from millennia, yeah, and it was part 47 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: of several different philosophies and it it from there grew into, 48 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: like Kristen said, being that cornerstone of Chinese culture. And 49 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: the earliest appearance of the character for Xiao, which is 50 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: the word for filial piety, Uh is on a bronze 51 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: vessel dated to the last years of the Shang dynasty 52 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: or perhaps the earliest years of the Zoo dynasty around 53 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: one thousand BCS. So this is no like modern you know, 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: communist era China policy. This goes way back right, And 55 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: initially Shao had more of the sense of providing food 56 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: offerings to your ancestors, but then it evolved to encompass 57 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: service to both living parents and ancestors, and it ties 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: in a lot with u Confucianism, which is more of 59 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: a humanist school of thought where rather than you know, 60 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: living your life to honor, say odd, you live your 61 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: life to honor the world and especially to your family. 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: That's more. You think of that more in a religious 63 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: and air quotes sense of extreme devotion. So sheao was 64 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: a major concept in Confucianism, and Confucianism was established as 65 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: a state orthodoxy during the Han dynasty, which was characterized 66 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: by the official promotion of filial piety, and the dynasty 67 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: systematically made unfilial conduct actually a punishable crime, which sounds 68 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: familiar to this this lawsuit thing that you're talking about, 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: and rewarded acts of filial piety, and with few exceptions, 70 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: during this dynasty, emperors even adopted chiao as part of 71 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: their official titles. Now, she also had sort of a 72 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: double edged effect. This is coming from researcher Donald Holtzman, 73 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: who talks about how this centrality of the homage that 74 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: children render to their parents and ancestor were ship in 75 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: Chinese culture created a strong tie binding succeeding generations to 76 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: one another. It's it's very common, for instance, even still 77 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: for multiple generations to live under one roof in China, 78 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: and so it explains both it's enduring character, but also 79 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: at the same time the difficulty of adopting it to 80 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: the modern world, which is uh, something that will will 81 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: get into more in terms of the Chinese government really 82 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: trying to reinvigorate the sense of filial piety among Chinese 83 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: adults who are our age, who might not have grown 84 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: up in in such at a time when it was 85 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: so rigorously taught and enforced. But shao Jing or the 86 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: classic a filial piety was basic to classical Chinese education 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: and was part of school curriculum right up into the 88 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: twentieth century. And what those specifically we're talking about with 89 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: filial piety, it's not just you know, saying, oh, you know, 90 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: be nice to your parents, honor your parents, obey them, 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: respec act them. But if you look at classic text, 92 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: like the Paragons of filial Piety, those examples get pretty extreme. 93 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's things like there was There was 94 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: one one of the stories is about a son. A 95 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: lot of it is based on like the son's relationship 96 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: to the parents, and one of them is about a 97 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: son who goes off into the woods to you know, 98 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: hunt or gather something, and he leaves his mother at 99 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: the house and a guest arrives and the mother apparently 100 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: is so excited by this guest that she bites her 101 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: finger nervously, causing it to bleed. And while the sun 102 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: is miles away from home, all of a sudden, at 103 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: the moment she bites her finger, he feels, you know, 104 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: disturbance in the forest and then rushes back home. And 105 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: of course, you know, her fingers fine, but she is 106 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 1: overjoyed that her son is you know, so so so kind. 107 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: And I mean it even gets into you know, stories 108 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: of not to be gross. If you are eating right now, 109 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: you might want to pause because there's one story, for instance, 110 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: about a son testing his parents stool to find out 111 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: whether or not everything's okay with them because they're ailing, 112 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: you know there, his parents are sick, and so he 113 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: eats their poop to find that that's that's the early 114 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: Chinese version of everybody poops exactly. But I mean, but 115 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: that is the extremity and and these these extreme examples 116 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: are honored saying, oh you are you know, you're a 117 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: paragon of filial piety because you will go to such 118 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: great lengths to make sure that your aging parents are 119 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: healthy and happy. Right, but all of these early texts, 120 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: as you've hammered home just now, focus mainly on the 121 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: sun's and the son's subordination. Where they do talk about 122 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: daughters women daughters in law, it's really about how the 123 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: daughter in law needs to be devoted to her husband's family. 124 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: And this really created a lot of conflict between daughters 125 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: in law and parents and law and these clan based families. 126 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: And we have the scripture on Young Woman Yea, which 127 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: was written as Confucianism was on the way out. And so, 128 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about a lot of social movements 129 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: in the podcast and about how people reach back to 130 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: more conservative times when society is rapidly changing and scary 131 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: things are developing, and this is just one more example 132 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: of that. They're like, let's write something to show women 133 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: how they need to behave because all of this rigamar 134 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: role that's happening as Confucianism is leaving us. So the 135 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: scripture focused exclusively on the role of the daughter in law, 136 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: whose conduct is portrayed as pivotal in ensuring harmony in 137 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: the family, and classified women according to their social and 138 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: family roles, and this type of focus was pretty unprecedented. 139 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: The scriptures moral rules really served to reinforce the Confucian 140 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: sense of propriety for women and reflect this perceived need 141 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: to reassert moral order at a time when the Confusion 142 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: orthodoxy was losing its hold on the elite Chinese society. 143 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: So in contrast to those Confucian texts up to that period, 144 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: which usually kind of ignored women and they're like, you 145 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: know what, you need to be obedient and nice and 146 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: sweet and cute, but let's really talk about how the 147 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: suns need to obey their parents and be reverent, this 148 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: scripture praises women for loyal and filial service to their 149 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: parents in law, thus trying to really hammer home that 150 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: status quo. So in in the change, it really only 151 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: reinforced the same right there, Like, oh, by the way, hey, women, 152 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: you're supposed to also be really reverent, but not to 153 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: your parents. Once you get married. It has to be 154 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: to your parents in law, right, because long these lines 155 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: of thought. For men, their shall or filial piety is 156 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: genetically determined because they're born of sons and thus they 157 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: need to carry out this filial party. But for women, 158 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: it's expected to shift to her husband's ancestral linear at marriage. 159 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: So you know, it's like, you know, it's when your daughter, yeah, 160 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: you know, be good to your parents. But then once 161 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: you get married and stuff, you're gonna have to devote 162 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: all of your attention to your husband's parents. But then 163 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: in uh seven thirty a d I believe the Book 164 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: of Filial Piety for Women comes out because the writer 165 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: understood that the Book of Filial Piety, though gender neutral, 166 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: was implicitly addressed to males. And this was attributed to 167 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: an official's wife. Yeah, and the primary goal of this 168 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: writing was to expand the Book of Filial Piety for 169 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: women and girls that same idea of oh wait, things 170 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: are changing, we need to tell women what to do. 171 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: So the moral vision was that seemingly small acts can 172 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: have major consequences and can transform others in ever widening circles. 173 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: In other words, Hey, so you're hanging out in the 174 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: kitchen all the time, but don't worry. You can still 175 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: have effects on society. You can still exert moral influence 176 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: over your husband. Let's say, who can then go out 177 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: and affect change in the local government or local village. 178 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: Who can then, you know, affect the nation and the empire. 179 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: So they're like, don't worry, women, you can still be 180 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: important from the kitchen. Well, and that and The maternal 181 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: role though, was highly um emphasized because one of you know, 182 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: like a good Chinese mother seeks to educate her children 183 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: and almost to um a what we might think in 184 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: more Western terms as to as to a severe extent, 185 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: Like there was an article that I ran across that 186 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: was written by Amy Tiger mom Chua which she goes 187 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: over to China to interview do these profiles on for 188 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: self made female billionaires because apparently China has more female 189 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: self made billionaires than anywhere else in the world. And 190 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: she's talking to one of them and uh and talks 191 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: about how even still she you know, practices tenants of 192 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: filial piety. So when her sons come home from school, 193 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: they don't go play sports, they have to sit down 194 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: and practice Chinese characters for two hours because she's being, 195 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: you know, a good mother enforcing those you know, the 196 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: kind of hardlined I guess educational tactics. Yeah, according to 197 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: that book of Filial Piety for Women, it's interesting to 198 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: look at what constitutes a good woman, you know, the 199 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: mother who educate her children versus what is considered to 200 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: be an immoral woman. So a good woman, you're a 201 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: wife who admonishes your husband. You keep your husband in line, 202 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: but you're immoral and unfilial if you dare become jealous 203 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: of your husband's concubines, How dare you let your husband 204 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: be happy? Why don't you well? And even after your 205 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: husband passes away, a good woman is considered one who 206 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: does not remarry. Um, but let's move forward. I mean, 207 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: like we said, this is going back to ancient times. 208 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: But it's incredible that shaw has endured for so long, 209 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: and even today it's been singled out as a key 210 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: to preserving Chinese tradition and identity. But not so surprisingly, 211 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: along with the modernization that has happened, perception of gender 212 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: roles has rendered the development of filial piety a lot 213 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: more complex because you know, you know, women are are 214 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: certainly not quite as keen on sticking to those good 215 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: good wife and mother kinds of ideas versus bad wife mother. 216 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: They just want to be you know, women, and be educated. 217 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: And you do wonder, I mean, there is the issue 218 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: of the one child policy, and so I am interested 219 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: in how you know, Okay, so in ancient times you 220 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: shifted your filial piety when you married your husband to 221 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: his parents. But what about if you are the only 222 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: child and you are a girl and you don't have 223 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: a brother to stay behind, and you know, express that 224 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: reverence to your parents. So it's interesting as things change 225 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: in China adopts new policies, but looking at how society 226 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: has changed and how this change and just have affected 227 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: filial piety. Um, there's been some rapid urbanization since the 228 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. This is coming from elderly Chinese and Pacific 229 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: RIM countries, social support and integration. Those rapid changes In 230 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: Hong Kong with the progress of compulsory education in particular, 231 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: the younger generations have found themselves better educated than their parents, 232 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: which leads to them, you know, earning more money, more skills, 233 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: and that has actually kind of devalued the status of 234 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: elder So, you know, I want to say kids today, 235 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: kids today aren't necessarily as likely to run to their 236 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: parents and say what do I do? Tell me what 237 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: to do? It's more like, well, you know, what's your opinion? Well, 238 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and it's not only that there's the radical shift of 239 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: kids even just moving out of the home. I mean 240 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: that's a big thing where you know, but if you 241 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: think about in more rural communities, kids are growing up 242 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: these days and leaving going thousands of miles away to 243 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: more urban centers where they can get jobs, leaving parents 244 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: in these areas to take care of themselves, whereas a 245 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: while ago that would be unheard of, right, and you know, 246 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I talked about how it would affect women, especially in 247 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: this one child policy society. There was a two thousand 248 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: three study and Gender and Society that looked at how 249 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: filial piety was working and how women played into that, 250 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: and they found an evidence of decline in the patrol 251 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: local tradition of caregiving, a gender division of parental care tasks, 252 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: and a strong social pressure that influences that caregiving behavior. 253 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: And their research indicated negative effects for the women who 254 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: are now caregivers, as they are likely to live longer, 255 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: but be more financially dependent and have fewer children available 256 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: to help them. So these women are kind of stuck 257 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: between a rock and a hard place nowadays, you know, 258 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: expected to care for their parents, care for their husbands, 259 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: and if the husband passes away, they're kind of juggling 260 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: both families and not having enough help, you know, in 261 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: their caregiving duties. And on top of that, um there's 262 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: a study from the Journal of Aging studies from May 263 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: two thousand two which examined the strength of the traditional 264 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: confusion filial piety, which would step in like in those 265 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: situations you're talking about, and you know, and basically instruct 266 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: the children to take care of their aging mothers and 267 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: and the study found that not surpresently these tenants are 268 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: eroding and um. Recently, this is as of two thousand 269 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: and twelve, the Chinese government has issued an updated version 270 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: of the twenty four Paragons of Filial Piety in an 271 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: attempt to, like we said at the top of the podcast, 272 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: to reinvigorate kids to essentially pay more attention to their parents. Um. 273 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: But as The New York Times reported in September of twelve, uh, 274 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: some of the Chinese people are are straight up just 275 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: turning away, um from old school filial piety because it's like, well, 276 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: the world has changed, and you know, I try to 277 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: call my parents and talk to them, but I can't 278 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: be there all the time, right. And there has been 279 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: a backlash and people are ridiculing these new ideas because 280 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: they're kind of striking. A lot of people is out 281 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: of touch in this nation where millions are leaving the 282 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: countryside in search of jobs, and cities every year. For example, 283 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: one of those new paragons of filial piety is take 284 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: one's parents traveling frequently, And if you're one of the 285 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: country's two hundred and fifty two million migrant workers, you 286 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: can't actually afford to do that. And nearly eleven million 287 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: rural migrants arrived in Chinese cities in twenty eleven alone, 288 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: most likely leaving those aging parents behind. So people are 289 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: going in search of opportunity and can't always get back, 290 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, and take an hour's long trip to see 291 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: their aging parents. Right, And the Chinese government is also 292 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: having to deal with a massively negative effect of its 293 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: one child policy, which has left a ton of emptiness. 294 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: And on top of those kids who are leaving home 295 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: and going far, far away. Um emtin us now make 296 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: up fifty of Chinese households, and nearly half of the 297 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: five million people over sixty live apart from their children. 298 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if we think about today in the United States, 299 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: the whole issue of the aging baby boom or population 300 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: social security and the question of whether or not that's 301 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: going to take care of them, think about China, you know, 302 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: where even just familial support can't be as guaranteed as 303 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: a as a safety net, you know, on a lower 304 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: run from you know what the government might be able 305 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: to provide. Yeah, and fortunately, a study in the Journal 306 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: of Family Issues in March two thousand six found that 307 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: these only children were as likely to plan on helping 308 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: their parents as were those with siblings, and we're actually 309 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: more likely to intend to reside in the same city. 310 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: But it's it's the thing of like, well, if you're 311 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: going where the money is and the opportunity is, that 312 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: single child is kind of being torn in two directions 313 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: and is not always able to stay with their parents 314 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: where they're needed and so but luckily, according to the study, 315 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: the only children seemed to feel especially responsible for their 316 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: parents happiness. So maybe we're just going to end up 317 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: with the generation of kids who are completely stressed out 318 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: and don't know what to do. That sounds like it 319 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: sounds like everybody, yeah, yeah, say so. Um. But one 320 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: thing we have not really touched on though is communism, 321 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, China has been a communist society, 322 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: and there is a study in Aging and Political Policy 323 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: that came out in October of two thousand and eight 324 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: looking at how today's Chinese Communist society sort of meshes 325 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: with filial piety, and it found that although Chinese communists 326 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: have found filial piety to be ideologically repulsive, they have 327 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: nevertheless tolerated it and even use it as the basis 328 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: for a welfare network to support the elderly in villages. 329 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: I mean essentially like kind of saying again, well, hey, 330 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: you know what we've gotten to, got this free support 331 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: network that we can tap into. Yeah, let's guilt these 332 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: kids into taking care of their parents so we don't 333 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: have to. Well, so, how does all this change when 334 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: when families moved to America or you know, moved to 335 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: any other country outside of China. Really um A in 336 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: October two thousand to study in the Journal of Family 337 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: Issues interviewed middle class Taiwanese and Hong Kong immigrant families 338 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: in California. And although three generational cohabitation may have declined 339 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: once they reached America, so once these these nuclear families 340 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: shrink a little, the author found that the family still 341 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: remains the nexus of care networks and economic ties among 342 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: Chinese immigrants, and so immigrant adult children do maintain the 343 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: cultural ideal of filial piety, but they do it differently. 344 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: They end up. In the study, they found recruiting home 345 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: care workers as fictive can and they say that the 346 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: public care doesn't indicate the demand nishment of family bonds, 347 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: but rather reinforces kin connections as channels for circulating economic 348 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: resources among these people who are new to America. So 349 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: it sounds like for a traditional Chinese family, it's it's 350 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: not as though if they were to leave China they 351 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: leave all of their you know, traditional Chinese morals behind. 352 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: They take it with them. And there's a process of 353 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: a culturation that happens in which you you know, adapt 354 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: traits from one culture and mix it in with another. So, uh, 355 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: there was a study in Marriage and Family Review in 356 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: January of two thousand nine to look at those effects 357 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: of acculturation on these Chinese families, and it found that 358 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: there is some intergenerational conflict that will happen when it 359 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: comes to parenting in Chinese American families that were associated 360 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: with youth distress above and beyond just ac culturation gaps. 361 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: So basically saying that you know, beyond just the typical 362 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: growing pains if you will, that might occur, um, the 363 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: study highlighted some some more direct distress. Yeah, It's interesting 364 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: because they pointed out that maybe these Chinese parents should 365 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: increase parental warmth and decrease parental over protection, to which 366 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: Amy Chiwa would be like, whatever, yeah, I mean her 367 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: whole thing. I don't. I don't feel like we've gone 368 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: into a great detail on what she had to say 369 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: in Battle Him of the Tiger Mother Um. Basically, she 370 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: talked about how her two daughters were, for instance, never 371 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: allowed to go to sleepovers, never allowed to go to movies, 372 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: like all of these typical things that we would associate with, 373 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: you know, the good times of being a kid. No, 374 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: she was kids would not be doing the thing because 375 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: they would be practicing violence, practicing piano, practicing studying for school. 376 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: And she says, hey, you know what, do I sound 377 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: like a jerk? Yeah? I know that I do, and 378 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: I know that this is in direct contrast to the 379 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: more lenient Western parenting styles, But guess what, my kids 380 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: are gonna go Ivy League all the way. One of 381 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: her daughters had already played piano at Carnegie Hall, et cetera. 382 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: And while everyone, well a lot of the commoners flipped 383 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: out saying that she was, you know, issuing cruel and 384 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: unusual punishment and robbing her kids of a childhood. Um 385 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: her kids. One of her daughters actually wrote a response 386 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: piece to It's saying, I'm grateful to my mom for 387 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: doing this. You know. Yeah, Chua basically said it was 388 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: her way of showing love, like I believe in my daughters. 389 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: I believe that they can achieve all this stuff. And plus, hey, 390 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: they owe me. I'm their mom. They owe me to 391 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: obey me and do what I say so that they 392 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: can grow up to be productive members of society. And 393 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: these attitudes, I mean, that's just that's that's one example, 394 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: but these attitudes do carry over. Um. There was a 395 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: study in Basic and Applied Social Psychology in two thousand 396 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: that looked at Chinese New Zealander families, and researchers found 397 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: strong acceptance of filial piety obligations even in there, and 398 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: the felt expectations they found were stronger from elderly parents 399 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: than from grandparents, and the younger generation rated expectations on 400 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: them higher than did the middle age. So part of 401 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: that could have to do with the fact that as 402 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: we're you know, modernizing, and as families adapt to being 403 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: in different countries and in different cultures, the middle aged 404 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: children of older parents are more accepting of the idea 405 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: of Okay, well this is what my duty is, this 406 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: is what I do. But it's those younger generations that 407 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: are kind of chafing under these obligations. But I wonder 408 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: if that does change as you get older and once 409 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: you become a parent yourself and start understanding all that 410 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: goes into parenting and the you know, probably wanting like 411 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: a m said, like a little bit about payback, but 412 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, support in return for the support that she's 413 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: given her kids. Although I'm sure that some people listening 414 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: to say that as support, like there there's still people 415 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: who are not going to agree with UM, this kind 416 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: of parenting UM. And I did want to look into 417 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: whether or not filial party has positive or negative childhood outcomes, 418 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: and from what I could gather, you know, it's often 419 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: correlated not so surprisingly with UM lower disciplinary problems, higher 420 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: school achievement, not so surprisingly if kids are being you know, 421 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: forced to do many hours of homework or extracurricular work 422 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: on top of school and all in all, you know, 423 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: by the numbers, it seems like it has good impacts. 424 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: Although I was not able to find a more detailed 425 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: study for instance, interviewing children about you know what what 426 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: how does this actually make you feel? You know, if 427 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: you are you might be performing well on paper, but 428 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: you know, it is so much in contrast to the 429 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: kinds of westerning parenting styles that we would normally think of, um, 430 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: but I am curious to know more of like the 431 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: those long terms effective because we you know, we do, 432 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: we cherish that whole like parental warmth. And I mean 433 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: even thinking today about attachment parenting and helicopter parents where 434 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, on on the whole flip side of this, 435 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: where you know, a lot of American parents are almost 436 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: just like hovering their kids and babying them to to 437 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: a large extent. And I'm not I'm just I'm saying that, 438 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: like as a broad generalization. I'm not saying that all 439 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: parents do that. I'm setting up a contrast there. Please 440 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: close that email you are about to send to us exactly. 441 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: But there was a study that came out in in 442 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: the American Association of Behavioral and Social Sciences Journal that 443 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: supported the idea um that maybe Chinese students do hold 444 00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: higher expectations regarding their personal filial norms just and because 445 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: filial piety was at the center of that Chinese culture 446 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: and Confucianism. In the West, there's less emphasis on that 447 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: familial and community obligation and more on the individual darn 448 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: you Protestantism, uh, the study says in in not those words, 449 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: but basically, you know, the individualism of of Protestantism versus 450 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: Confucianism taking care of your family and your community. Well, so, 451 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,239 Speaker 1: this study looked at Eastern and Western kids and and 452 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: looked at their expectations and their attitudes towards taking care 453 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: of their families, and they actually found that young people 454 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: in some Southeast and East Asian cultures seem not to 455 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: practice filial behavior willingly towards the elderly in general. Rather, 456 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: they reluctantly accommodate these social norms and expectations of the elderly, 457 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: these things that have been in their culture and that 458 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: they're just expected to do. Young adults and Western cultures, though, 459 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: who aren't expected to do these things, tended to believe 460 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: that they were doing it very well because they didn't 461 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: have the same weight of those exctations on them. So 462 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: when they did help out their parents or grandparents, they 463 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: were like, oh, yeah, I'm doing I'm doing a great job. 464 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: This is great. Yeah, it's like you you come over 465 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: for Mother's Day, Father's Day, you know, the bars is 466 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: very low. And and and again I'm not saying that 467 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: all American kids are like that, but absolutely the bar 468 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: would be lower. And so you know, it doesn't take 469 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: quite as much to feel like a really good kid. Perhaps. Yeah, 470 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: and this whole conversation about filial piety is is not 471 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: our argument for you know, us raising our our children 472 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: under these you know, Confucian traditions or anything like that. 473 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: But we wanted to take Jennifer's suggestion and explore filial piety, um, 474 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: just to get a snapshot of what is going on 475 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: in the rest of the world in terms of how 476 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: parents raise their kids. And especially you know, China is 477 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: such a fascinating example because size wise, you know, it's 478 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: it's comparable to the US, bigger than the US, and 479 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: it's and it's a society that that we hear a 480 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: lot about, but I don't think that we we really 481 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: talk about in terms of how say, families get along. Um. 482 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: So we thought it would be a hopefully an enlightening 483 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: exploration of that. Yeah, and I would love to hear 484 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: from listeners who maybe had that traditional upbringing, or they 485 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: are currently raising their children and that more traditional upbringing, 486 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: or maybe people who had parents who were just totally 487 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: like whatever, yeah, or you know, and and on the 488 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: flip side of that, there are just as many people 489 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: who think that, you know, Amy Chua, etcetera, are completely 490 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: and totally crazy. You know, I'm sure there are plenty 491 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: of people who would hear this and say, no, that 492 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: kind of stuff is completely outdated. So wait, we know 493 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: we need to modernize our our parenting, but I do 494 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: I do think though sometimes there is maybe more room. 495 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: It makes me at least feel like maybe there's more 496 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: room in my life for some filial piety. Yeah. So yeah, 497 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: with that, send us your thoughts. Mom Stuff at Discovery 498 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send your letters. You 499 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or send 500 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: us a message via Facebook. But Caroline, let's take a 501 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: quick break and then we will get to a couple 502 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: of those messages. And now back to our letters. Hey, Kristen, 503 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Natalie about our our 504 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: Secretary episode. She just found us recently and and she 505 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: said she couldn't help but download the Secretary episode. So 506 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: she says, I am a proud administrative professional, but my 507 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: title and its perceptions frustrate me. I don't like to 508 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: be called a secretary because most folks think I do 509 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: work a train monkey could do. However, on our very 510 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: first informal meeting, my boss said I am the glue 511 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: of the office and nothing should happen without my say. 512 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: So that's set the bar for me, and the only 513 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: reason I don't make the final decisions is because of 514 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: chain of command and technicalities. Otherwise, I'm the one coaching 515 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: my boss is on what needs to be done. I 516 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: don't want to be the boss because I don't want 517 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: the stress, but I want the reward to me. It's 518 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: a win win. Moreover, even though it is understood that 519 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: the nature of my work is secretarial, our company has 520 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: instituted a different title that has given only to a 521 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: select group of admins who pass exams and certifications. Otherwise 522 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: they are simply secretaries and do not enjoy our special title. 523 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: I love my job, but I confess I wish I 524 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: could get over myself and stop getting cranky. When people 525 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: call me a secretary, I politely correct them and move on, 526 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: though I remember they called me a secretary and hesitate 527 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: to help them with something really easy but really difficult 528 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: for them in the future. I can be a brat, 529 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: I know, thanks Natalie, and I don't think there's anything 530 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: wrong with gently correcting people. When people call flight attendant sturidisees, 531 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: I non gently correct them by kicking them in the 532 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: ship right throwing hot coffee in their face. No, no, no. 533 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: Well I have one here from Caitlin and this is 534 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: in response to our episode on stuffed animals, and my goodness, 535 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: we have received so many delightful stuft animal stories and 536 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: here is one of them. When I was sixteen, my 537 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: mom and I went on a college road trip checking 538 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: out a few schools I was interested in. In somewhere 539 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: between Pennsylvania and Ohio, my beloved little white dog, Scruffy, 540 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: went missing. I'd had him for nearly a decade at 541 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: that point, and honestly, he went everywhere I did, even 542 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: as a teen. If I was leaving a zip code overnight, 543 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: he was coming with me, and losing him was a 544 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: big deal for me, and my parents were very sweet 545 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: about it. Starting my freshman year of college, my mom 546 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: began finding new Scruffy's on eBay on Valentine's Day, Christmas, 547 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: a few random Tuesdays as well. I was handed a 548 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: box with a new friend, but they were never exactly right. 549 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: One had a Santa hat, one had a rose in 550 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: his mouth, and one was a size too small. The 551 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: miracle of miracles, my mom found me a scruffy that 552 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: was nearly identical to the one I had misplaced. For 553 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: several years after college, I was traveling regularly for work 554 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: and posted pictures of my buddy Scruppy on my blog 555 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: and Twitter so my parents and friends could check in 556 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: with where I was and what I was doing. People 557 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: were generally great sports about getting their picture taken with him, 558 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: and even as a mid twenties something, I was happy 559 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: to have my buddy in my bag with me at 560 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: all times. Anytime I hear a story about adults being 561 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: judged for their stuffed animal friends, I get a little frustrated. 562 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: As an only child with a very active communication and 563 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: not super stable health with pretty bad asthma allergies, I 564 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: found solace in my little white dog, and I'm not 565 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: ashamed at all that as an adult I still do. 566 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: I like having him with me, and it's a reminder 567 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: of my family and friends who love me. So thanks 568 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: to Caitlin for that endearing tale of Scruffy and here 569 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: here's wishing you and Scruffy many years of happiness and health. 570 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: And thanks to everybody he was written in with their 571 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: stuffed animal tales and everything else to mom Stuff at 572 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com. You can also again find us on 573 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts on Facebook. You can follow 574 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: us on Tumbler at stuff mom Ever Told You dot 575 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: tumbler dot com, and now you can watch us on YouTube. 576 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: That's right. We come out with a brand new video 577 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: three times a week at YouTube dot com slash stuff 578 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You, and you should be a doll 579 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: and subscribe while you're at it. And if you'd like 580 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,479 Speaker 1: to read up and get a little smarter this week, 581 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: you can head to our website it's how stuff works 582 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 583 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: Does it how stuff works dot com