1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: I have a medical related question. You know my toe ring? 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: I think, I think maybe yes, I do have a 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: toe ring. You've never had a ring. When is the 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: last time you saw my bare feet? 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: Three years ago? 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Since then, I've gotten a toe ring. Why I was drunk. 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: Some people get tattoos. I don't like pain. I can't 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: get it off my toe. And it really is did 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: you not take a hippocratic oath? Fine? I know, Bye? 10 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: I just hung up on myself or is it hanged 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: up from gimblet media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: heavyweight today's episode Kenny. Like most, when I hear the 13 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: words tale of betrayal, I think of Judas narking on, Jesus, 14 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: Brutus icing Julius, Satan cucking the Lord. But recently I 15 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: heard a story of treachery that not only ranks among those, 16 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: it might surpass them. While those stories merely have devils, 17 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: this one has something far better. Dare devils. This story 18 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: of betrayal takes place in the nineteen seventies, a time 19 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: when brave men and women mounted motorcycles or got behind 20 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: the wheels of cars to jump anything in their field 21 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: of vision. Barrels chuck wagons, cement mixers, Stegmayer beer, truck 22 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: pits of rattlesnakes, and dens of mountain lions. This was 23 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: a time when jumping a shark didn't mean jumping the shark. 24 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: It was a time when daredeviling was not only a 25 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: viable career path, it was something your parents could be 26 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: proud of. I grew up in the nineteen seventies in 27 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: a neighborhood fully infected with daredevil fever. The older kids 28 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: would lay us younger kids down on the sidewalk and 29 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: jump us with our bicycles, all of us, from the 30 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: older kids with bath towels tied to their necks like capes, 31 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: to us younger kids with tire tracks across our backs. 32 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: We all wanted to be daredevils, and the daredevil we 33 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: most wanted to be was Evil Knieval. We ate from 34 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: Evil Canevl lunch pails and played with Evil Canevl dolls. 35 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: Evil Canievl was Elvis, Captain America and Liberachi all rolled 36 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: into one. It seemed like everyone in the world wanted 37 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: to be Evil Canieval, but there was one man who 38 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: wanted more than that. He wanted to surpass Evil canievel altogether. 39 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: That man's name was Ken Carter, aka the Mad Canadian. 40 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: Before he was the Mad Canadian, Ken was a grocery 41 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: boy with a grade school education. His dream to beat 42 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: evil Canevl at his own game is captured in a 43 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies Canadian documentary called The Devil at Your Heels. 44 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: The movie opens at a local Halifax racetrack. The crowds 45 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: here to watch Ken Carter jump eighteen cars. It's nighttime, 46 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: and the crowd cheers wildly as Ken Carter barrels towards 47 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: a ramp in a souped up hardtop convertible. Ken doesn't 48 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: make it. Instead, he lands with a crash, flat on 49 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: top of the last car in line. A man runs 50 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: over to pool Ken from the car, I get an ambulance. 51 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: Crew arrives and while being carried out on a stretcher, 52 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: Ken waves to. 53 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: His fans, okay, take me over to the microphone please. 54 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: The paramedics carry the stretcher over to a microphone, and 55 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: while lying injured on his back, Ken makes an announcement, believe. 56 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: Me, We'll be back here to more light. 57 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: At eight o'clock sharp. We'll be back here to more light. 58 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, thank you, thank you, thank you. 59 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: Rub on a little Ben Gay, soaked the tootsies and 60 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Ebsen salts, and hit it again the next night, for 61 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: three nights every week. This is how Ken Carter makes 62 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: his living. But he has plans to change all that. 63 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: Ken had been watching Evil Canevel on TV for years 64 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: and he wanted what Canieval had, adulation, respect, and a 65 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: lot more money. Up until this point, Canevel's biggest stunt 66 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: was over the Snake River Canyon, a distance of one 67 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: quarter mile. Ken Carter's plan was to jump the Saint 68 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: Lawrence River, a distance four times that length a full mile, 69 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: by applying a little Canadian elbow grease. Ken Carter was 70 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: going to drive a rocket powered Lincoln Continental offer ramp 71 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: in Canada and land in the United States, watching the 72 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: movie as a Canadian. The idea of flying through the 73 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: air in a Lincoln Continental while listening to Gordon Lightfoot 74 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: on the eight track player for one mile and landing 75 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: in America without so much as a Canadian passport written 76 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: attestation as to whether my rocket car contains fruits or 77 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: vegetables felt noble. This is my dream. I don't care 78 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: if I ever jump again. 79 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: But this I'm going to do. 80 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: This is my dream. Nobody ever jumped a car a mile. 81 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to do. 82 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: But right from the jump there are problems. Over and over. 83 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: A date for the super jump is set, and over 84 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: and over things go wrong. The crew building the ten 85 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: story ramp miscalculates the measurements. 86 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 4: No Ken is deeply disappointed. 87 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: He was dialed into, as he says, he was dialed 88 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: in to do it. There's an unexpected rain that turns 89 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: the ramp to mud. The crew tries to dry it 90 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: off using a helicopter. You know, I'm just coming to 91 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: the end of my rope. On another occasion, an hour 92 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: before the jump, the crew decides to strike, demanding twenty 93 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars in cash before going back to work. 94 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: I gotta budget here. Fuel tanks explode repeatedly. 95 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: Holy christ Man, what are we doing? 96 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: This goes on for five years, again and again and again. 97 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 1: The jump is canceled. Over a million Canadian dollars are spent, 98 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: Investors back out and new investors are found. Countless problems 99 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: are allayed, doubts are assuaged, gotays are grown, and goatease 100 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: are shaved. But then Ken's luck turns, ABC's Wide World 101 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: of Sports wants to air Ken's super Jump on live 102 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: television for its millions of viewers. Before making the deal official, 103 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: the network needs to send an inspector over to the 104 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: jump site to report back on the stunt's viability, and 105 00:07:54,520 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: the inspector they send is none other than Evil Canievil. 106 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Once Evil Knievel gives it the go ahead, ABC will 107 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: air the jump, and once ABC airs the Jump, Ken 108 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: will become an international star and kids will play with 109 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: mad Canadian action figures and carry Mad Canadian lunchboxes. 110 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 4: And it reminds me of the Canyon. 111 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: How much hires this ram another thirty. It should be 112 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: noted that while Evil Knevels sports the sideburns of an outlaw, 113 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Ken Carter sports the goatee of an assistant professor. And 114 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: while Evil Knievel looks like a rough and tumble movie 115 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: matinee idol, Ken Carter at the moment, wearing a leather 116 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: jacket and a gold chain around this turtleneck neck, looks 117 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: like your best friend's weird uncle in a turtleneck. 118 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 4: This looks like a dangerous jump to me, boy, you 119 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 4: got no elevation, You got no. 120 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: Room for air. 121 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: Later, ABC airs Knievel's verdict. He delivers it while seated 122 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: atop a bulldozer at the jump site. 123 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 4: I don't think i'd attempt to try this stunt. I 124 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 4: think that the time and preparation that's been put into 125 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 4: it is much too little. This is maybe a daredevil 126 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 4: stunt that might end all their devil stunts. 127 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: Evil Caneval is essentially saying that if Ken goes through 128 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: with this super jump, he'll end up killing himself live 129 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: on national television and in doing so, completely ruined the 130 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: daredeviling industry for everyone. Ken, sitting on his living room couch, 131 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: watches as Evil Canevel tears up his dream on TV. 132 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: I've been saying it for years. I still believe that 133 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: Evil Knievel's the second best dear devil in the world. 134 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: And I say that because I feel it. 135 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: I'm number one. 136 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: So I also feel that if you don't think in 137 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: terms of win. 138 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 3: You do not win. 139 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: ABC was out This was a blow, but not a betrayal. 140 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: The actual betrayal was yet to come. Without the promise 141 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: of a live televised event, Ken's investors drop out. Desperate, 142 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: Ken turns to a group of Hollywood producers who offered 143 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: a fund his super jump with a stipulation, a safety net, 144 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: if you will, they would distribute it as a pre 145 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: recorded special. In this way, the whole huge event would 146 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: take place without an audience, a traumatizable, blood splashable, we 147 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: want our money backable audience, which meant Ken's dream of 148 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: grandstands filled with cheering crowds and tables selling Ken Carter 149 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: Onesie's beer, cozies and go take homes would not come true. 150 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: All there'd be was a lonely ramp, a small crew, 151 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: some cameras, and Ken. Months of delays follow, and finally 152 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: a new date for the super jump is set and 153 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: once again it rains. But the new investors don't care 154 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: about safety. They have limited funds and just want the 155 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: jump to happen. The scene opens on the jump site. 156 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: We see the ramp, a group of journalists, a man 157 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: holding out a boom mic, and then the camera moves 158 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: in on a man wearing a yellow jumpsuit and a 159 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: cowboy hat. 160 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 5: All right, the lights are green, and let's get ready 161 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 5: and go. 162 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: I want to go. 163 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: The man in the yellow jumpsuit is not Ken Carter, 164 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: but he poses on the ramp and gives quotes to 165 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: reporters about the jump he's about to make. 166 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 4: I always like to stay to New York, so I'm 167 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 4: sure I hope they like me when I get there. 168 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: The man has the same goatee as ken Carter, the 169 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: same style of hair, but he's shorter, younger, and brasher. 170 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: All right, guys, my advice to get off the ramp. 171 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: You don't want no tar tracks on you. 172 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: As I watch it all unfold, I grow increasingly confused. 173 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: Where's ken Carter? Had I missed something? Was some key 174 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: scene accidentally cut? Finally, the voice over informs us that 175 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: this yellow suited man is ken Carter's long time understudy, 176 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: Kenny Powers. It turns out the investors had begun to 177 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: suspect that ken Carter had lost his nerve, that some 178 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: excuse was always going to pop up and he would 179 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: never make the jump. So they came up with a 180 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: scheme simply put ditch ken Carter and place Kenny Powers 181 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: behind the wheel of the rocket car have him do 182 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: the jump instead. But first they had to get Ken 183 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: out of the way, so they invited him to a 184 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: fake business meeting at a hotel an hour from the 185 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: jump site. With Ken Carter out of the picture, Kenny 186 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: Powers steps up, and Kenny Powers really seems to be 187 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: enjoying the attention. The countdown was too long. I think 188 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: it was too long. Ten second countdown, that's all I need. 189 00:12:58,400 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: I'm not ready in ten seconds. 190 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 6: I'll never be. 191 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: Ready, and I'm gonna give it heil. Kenny warns the 192 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: people of America to get ready. Staring into the camera, 193 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: he instructs them to clear off their breakfast tables because 194 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: when he crashes down on their roofs, it might rattle 195 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: the dishes. Kenny Powers gets behind the wheel of the 196 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: rocket car, the name Ken Carter emblazoned along its side, 197 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: and then the car blasts off, races up the ramp, 198 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: and is airborne. Let's press pause here to consider what's happening. 199 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: The idea of jumping a mile in a rocket car 200 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: is completely insane, But as the car soars into the air, 201 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: so soars my heart. It might only attest to what 202 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: hopeful creatures we humans are. But in this moment, as 203 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: the car reaches top velocity, it seems that Kenny Powers 204 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: that humanity might maybe, somehow possibly make it across. But 205 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: of course this isn't to be Almost immediately after leaving 206 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: the ramp, the car plummets into the river. Debris flies, 207 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: parachutes open, someone screams. During his nine second flight, Kenny 208 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: Powers made it a total distance of five hundred and 209 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: six feet. For our Canadian listeners, that's a lot less 210 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: than a mile, Jim Jam. Because the car was built 211 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: specifically for Ken Carter, Kenny Powers was too short to 212 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: reach the gas pedal, so we never gained enough speed. 213 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: Before leaving the ramp, several members of the crew trudged 214 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: through the water and pull Kenny Powers from the driver's seat. 215 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: As though the spinal injury has yet to be invented, 216 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: they carry him from the river atop their shoulders bar 217 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: Mitzvah boy style. How Kenny Power says, ow ow later 218 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: he'll learn he's broken eight vertebrae, cracked three ribs and 219 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: fractured his wrist after the jump. As Kenny Powers lay 220 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: bandaged up in a hospital bed, the film's director showed 221 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: up outside Ken Carter's hotel room door to tell him 222 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: what happened. 223 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 5: Can what the hell you want? 224 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: But Ken already knows I don't want to talk to you. 225 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 5: Get out of here. 226 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: Eventually, Ken pulls him into the room. Why the camera 227 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: crew remains in the hallway recording audio through the hotel door. 228 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: Did you know about this fortune? 229 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: Look at him. 230 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: About we fade to black. Then a title card appears 231 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: on screen. It reads one year later, Ken is shown 232 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: sitting at the base of the ramp. He promises he'll 233 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: make the jump someday, and that's it. The credits role. 234 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: Some song about the power of a man in his 235 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: dream starts to play, and the movie ends without ever 236 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: addressing the craziest detail in this whole crazy story. As 237 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: it turns out, Kenny Powers, the man who hijack Ken's 238 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: car and his lifelong dream, wasn't just Ken Carter's understudy. 239 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: Kenny Powers was Ken's best friend. Ken Carter and Kenny 240 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: Powers have both since died, So I called Bob Fortier, 241 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: the film's director, to see if I could find out more. 242 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: When I ask Bob why Kenny would betray his friend, 243 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: would ruin the dream Ken had spent so many years chasing. 244 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: Bob mentions a drinking problem and rumors that Kenny had 245 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: gotten himself into some sort of trouble down in Florida 246 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: and was desperate for a way to pay his legal 247 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: fees for Bob. The reason for this betrayal is as 248 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: classic as they come. Money. The backers offered Kenny a 249 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: lot of money to betray his friend, and Kenny took it. 250 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: That's just the kind of guy he was, Bob says, 251 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: someone who'd betray the guy who'd been supporting him for 252 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: ten years. Right at the last moment. After the movie wrapped, 253 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Bob never spoke to Kenny Powers again. Kenny Powers, he says, 254 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: isn't the kind of guy you want to keep in 255 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: touch with. After the Jump, Kenny Powers was effectively run 256 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: out of Canada. One stuntman website even refers to him 257 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: as quote Judas in a cowboy hat, and Ken Carter 258 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: he went back to his old life of racetrack jumps. 259 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: About a year after the Saint Lawrence River Jump, Ken 260 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: Carter died attempts to jump a pond. He never achieved 261 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: the legacy he'd hungered, after all, because of his supposed 262 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: friend Kenny Powers. I watched the failed super Jump over 263 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: and over and I'm not the only one to be 264 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: transfixed by it. On YouTube. That one scene from the movie, 265 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: which has been retitled destroyed in seconds Jet Car Daredevil 266 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: has over a million hits. Before that, the jump was 267 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: immortalized in The Gruesome Faces of Death Too, a movie 268 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: composed of boxing, ring deaths and failed stunts. Ken Carter 269 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: had spent years training for his stunt, meticulously planning out 270 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: every last detail. As a professional stunt man, Kenny Powers 271 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: had to have known the risk of just jumping behind 272 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: the wheel like he was dipping out for drive through 273 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: chicken nuggets, even for all the money in the world. 274 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: He had to have known that trying to fly a 275 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: rock car across a mile wide river with absolutely no 276 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: training was a death mission. In a bid to better 277 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: understand the Daredevil psyche, I bravely jump down a rabbit 278 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: hole of Daredevil's subculture. I watched stunt video after stunt video, 279 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: and even learned the distinction between daredeviling, stunt manning and 280 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: thrill mastering. I read about important industry figures like Spanky 281 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: Spangler and Spanky Junior, Lucky Teeter, Calvin Scarecrow, Shirk, big 282 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: Ed Beckley, Jim crash Moreau, Stony Roberts, Daredevil, Doug Klang, 283 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Danger, Mister Dizzy, Cory the Headache Cowl, Froggy Jasper, 284 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: the Clown, Walt King, Kovaz Bumps, Willard Risky, Rick Cruz, 285 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: Doug Danger, Earl, the Squirrel, Nicky Mighty, Aphrodite mc Burnett, 286 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: Don Snake, Prudome Levi, the Kamikaze Kid, Troutman, and Snooks Wenzel. 287 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: It's while watching my stunt videos that CEO and Gimblet 288 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: Media founder Alex Bloomberg sneaks up behind my desk and 289 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: asks what I'm doing research, I say, pausing a video 290 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: of a flaming station wagon falling from a drawbridge. I 291 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: close the browser window and open up a ted talk 292 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: on how to do business, and Alex smiles approvingly. I know, folks, 293 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: you're wondering, why do you allow Alex to walk all 294 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: over you like this? But I've got a wife and 295 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: child now, and podcasting into a chicken drumstick on a 296 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: Canadian breadline is the last thing I need at home 297 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: that night, a one room, cold water flat with a 298 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: screaming baby and a secondhand bassinette. I continue my research, 299 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: and somewhere around three am, I stumble upon a video 300 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: that defies explanation to. 301 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 6: Auto thrill seekers across North America, The Mad Canadian and 302 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 6: Your Madness. 303 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: I guess that's the way to call you. 304 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what you know. 305 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: The video was shot just a few months after the 306 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: failed super jump, and Ken Carter is back to working 307 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: race tracks. Here he is being interviewed before his stunt. 308 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot of kids out there watching. Who look 309 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: at evil Knieval? 310 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 6: Look at guys you're like yourself as heroes. 311 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: This is where I spot something unbelievable. Strolling in the 312 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: background right behind Ken Carter is the man who betrayed him, 313 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: Kenny Powers. Kenny stops, turns to Ken and just watches him, smiling, 314 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: and then he walks out of frame and is gone. 315 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: I rewind the moment several times. 316 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: Who look at evil Knieval, look at guys who look 317 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 2: at evil Knieval, look at guys who look at evil, 318 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: look at guys. 319 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: And there Kenny is, as clear as day, a warm 320 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: smile on his face, watching Ken Carter admiringly. By all measures, 321 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: Ken Carter should have hated Kenny Powers, should have been 322 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: trying to hunt him down and beat him up. But 323 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: there they were, happily spending a day together at the speedway, 324 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: A betrayal as grand as the one we see at 325 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: the end of the documentary isn't the kind of thing 326 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: you get over, especially not after a couple months, And 327 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: so I hop down a new rabbit hole and search 328 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: for whatever information I can find about Kenny Powers. According 329 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: to the Internet, Ken and Kenny remain friends after the jump. 330 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: Not only that, but to quote the Internet, Kenny Powers 331 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: carried around an eight x ten photograph of Ken Carter, 332 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: taking it everywhere he went, right up until the very 333 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: end of his life. Why would Kenny Powers carry around 334 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: a photograph of Ken Carter, the man he betrayed. I 335 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 1: promise to answer this question and possibly other questions, if 336 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: you promise to patiently sit through these messages from our sponsors. 337 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 6: Steve Yeah. 338 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: To help make sense of Ken and Kenny's relationship, I 339 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: reach out to Steve Beelock. Steve knew Ken Carter and 340 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: Kenny Powers from the very beginning. For years, he spent 341 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: countless hours with them on the road. You're in your 342 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: car right now. 343 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 3: It's all hands free, so I'm good. 344 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: Steve also toured in the Mad Canadian Stunt Show as 345 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: a mechanic. Back then, he went by the nickname Super Wrench, 346 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: named after I assume the tool that professional mechanics use 347 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: and not the feeling of sadness caused by a painful 348 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: parting because I had limited time for our phone call 349 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: and wasn't looking for drama at first. 350 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 3: It was just me and Cat for the first two years, 351 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 3: going around the country jumping rapped the ramp, and he 352 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: was stubborn. He was fair, but he was stubborn. 353 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: Steve proceeds to pull back the curtain on the version 354 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: of Ken Carter we see in the movie. According to Steve, 355 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: he put a lot of pressure on his crew, often 356 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: requiring everyone to sleep in the same school bus as 357 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: they jumped over. He aggressively booked shows miles apart, and 358 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: while his team was forced to drive for days on end, 359 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: Ken would fly ahead, arriving at the events in a helicopter. 360 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: But in spite of the cushy travel arrangements and his 361 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: mister Macho man image, things were getting tougher for Ken. 362 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: He was only in his late thirties, but in daredevil years, 363 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: Ken was old, his bones more brittle. With each passing year. 364 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: Ken fractured his ankles several several times. That's why I 365 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: walk funny. One jump in Tulsa, he landed past the 366 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 3: ramp and split a sternament too when he gets a column, 367 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 3: and when Ken was really hurt, it was when Kenny 368 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: Powers would step in. 369 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: When Kenny Powers joined the show, he was a young 370 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: guy in his twenties, so as Ken spent more and 371 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: more time laid up with injuries, Kenny would step in 372 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: to perform for him, to the point where he was 373 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: doing more jumps than Ken, but still getting none of 374 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: the credit. I wondered if on the day that Kenny 375 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: got behind the wheel of that rocket car, he saw 376 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: it as a chance to emerge from Ken's shadow and 377 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: show the world that he was the better stuntman, because 378 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: Steve says, even when Ken was in top form for 379 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: a stuntman, he was surprisingly cowardly. 380 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 3: Ken Carter was never really into speed. Okay, he did 381 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: not like going fast. 382 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's a scene in the in the 383 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: documentary where he's taken into that rocket car for the 384 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: first time, and when he steps out of the car, 385 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: you could see that he kind of has his his 386 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: stomach is just in his throat. 387 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 3: He probably had to change his underwear. I don't know 388 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: if you can say that on radio, but lucky. 389 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: For us, we're not on the radio. We're on a podcast, 390 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: and so we could do all the cussing and the 391 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: fuss and we like butter tart, liking sugarcrotch, kicking spam, 392 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: dagger dorkin squacker, poo poo platter with a henous that's right, 393 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: rhymes with anus case of the trots. That's just a 394 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: few of the things I can say here at Gimlet Media. 395 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 3: He probably should his pants tell you the truth. He 396 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 3: was scared. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind. 397 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 3: Even when we were in the ramp truck together, he 398 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: did not want me driving all over the speed linder whatsoever. 399 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 3: He just not like to go fast. 400 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: You'd think that a need for only the legally acceptable 401 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: amount of speed would be a liability for a daredevil. 402 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: Not only that, but according to Steve, Ken was even 403 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: scared of water. He never learned to swim, so driving 404 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: off a ramp at almost three hundred miles per hour 405 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: over a deep, fast moving river seemed like an odd 406 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: career move. 407 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: I don't think Carter had the cohones to do it. 408 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: So you think that that Kenny Powers had had more 409 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: cahonys I do. Steve says that Ken Carter was never 410 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: going to attempt that jump, that it was all in act, 411 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: nothing more than showmanship. 412 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 3: I can't believe any other way, only because of being 413 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: in the same hotel room with Ken Carter for three 414 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 3: and a half years, knowing the promoting that he did, 415 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 3: knowing him as well as I did, I just don't 416 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 3: think it was his intention to get into that Lincoln. 417 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 3: I don't think it was. 418 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: According to Steve, Ken must have asked Kenny to do 419 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: the jump for him, knowing that Kenny would do whatever 420 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: Ken told him to, just like he always did. So 421 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: to my question of how is it possible that Ken 422 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: and Kenny made up and became friends again, Steve's answer 423 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: is simple, they were never not friends in the first place. 424 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 3: And I can just see the conversation going on. Ken's 425 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 3: standing there, going Kenny, you're going to sit in that seat? 426 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: Do you think you can do it? And Kenny saying yes, 427 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: I think I can. And I truly believe that Kenny 428 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: powers did this just out of the love of his 429 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 3: heart for Ken. 430 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: The idea that Kenny had attempted the sun not out 431 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: of hatred, but out of love explains everything. Is what 432 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: I thought for all of two minutes before realizing it 433 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: made no sense at all. Don't get me wrong, I 434 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: believe in love and have plenty of it. If a 435 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: friend asks me to pick him up at the airport, 436 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: while I never do it, I do make a point 437 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: of apologizing profusely, really scrunching up my face, as though 438 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: my refusal is causing me as much agony as it 439 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: is them. I'd even go so far as to say 440 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: that this is because my Mama raised me right, but 441 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: we all know she hasn't. But even if she had, 442 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: going off a ten story ramp only to plummet to 443 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: my death because I wanted to do a pal a 444 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: solid for that, I'm afraid my heart as well as 445 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: my cajones, are far too petit. When I ask Steve 446 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: about the photo of Ken that Kenny carried around with him, 447 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: he didn't know anything about it, but he says that 448 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: Daredevil share a special bond. Well, I could, of course 449 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: imagine the love that unites a Spanky Spangler and a 450 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: Spanky Jr. Or even Evil Canievel at his Laverda Eagle motorcycle. 451 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: This fell deeper, somehow, and more complicated. Kenny nearly died 452 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: for Ken. What was the power that Ken exerted over Kenny. 453 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: What made Kenny so loyal that he was willing to 454 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: speed off a ramp and into oblivion just because he'd 455 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: been asked to? To find out, I phoned Beverly powers. 456 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: Let me give you the landline where I am because 457 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: I'm in the mountains right now. 458 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 6: Oh sorry, after break speak, the next. 459 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: A love break. 460 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: Hello, Beverly, Yes, let me turn off the television. Oh great, okay, 461 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 2: and the television is all. 462 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: Beverly is Kenny's widow. She grew up in the same 463 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: South Carolina town as Kenny. I knew him back when 464 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: he was the star halfback on the school football team 465 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: when I was in. 466 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: The sixth grade. Kenny was a senior in high school, 467 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: and I had a crush on him then, But you know, 468 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 2: he didn't know I existed. 469 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: Years later, after Kenny had already been married seven possibly 470 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: eight times, No one seems to be too sure, they 471 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: found each other again. Kenny asked Beverly for a ride 472 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: home one day and then asked her if she wanted 473 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: to stay for Jumbalaya. 474 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: Oh. He was a wonderful cook, and he was a 475 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: barber in the Navy. He cut my hair better than 476 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 2: anybody has ever cut my hair in my life. He 477 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: should have just stuck to barber and instead of the 478 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: stunt man. 479 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: If he had, says Beverly, he'd have avoided all the 480 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: pain of the super jump. 481 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 2: That he received a compensation for his jump was his 482 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 2: paid medical bills. 483 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: And that was it. There was no there was no profit. 484 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: No, Kenny didn't make anythink. 485 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: No, why do you think like he chose to remain 486 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: relatively in the background with Ken Carter as the. 487 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: Mean that has always been a mystery to me, because 488 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: Kenny had a tape personality that was totally out of 489 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: character for Kenny to stay in the background. 490 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot Beverly still doesn't understand about Kenny. 491 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: Like Steve the mechanic, She's certain that Kenny attempted the 492 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: jump not to betray Ken, but to protect him. In 493 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: Beverly's telling, the investors were out of money and they 494 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: were getting threatening. 495 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: Kenny and Ken should have never become involved with these men. 496 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 6: But what do you mean, I can't. 497 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: It's not something over the final that I could discuss. 498 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: You'd think about that for a while, and so I 499 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: thought about it for a while. You're talking about if 500 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: I can say over the telephone the mob Oh, so 501 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: you're wrong. So Kenny Powers knew someone had to make 502 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: that jump, and he also knew that, because of his 503 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 1: youth and physical condition, he stood a better chance of 504 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: surviving it than Ken. That's why, according to Beverly, Kenny 505 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: decided to step up. But unlike Steve the Mechanics version 506 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: of the story, Beverly says there was no secret plan, 507 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: no plan at all, just Kenny deciding on his own 508 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: spur the moment to help his friend. And if that's true, 509 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: Ken's getting angry back at the hotel might have been 510 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: less about having the jump stolen out from under him 511 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: and more about being scared for Kenny and angry that 512 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: Kenny would just up and try something so impetuous. In 513 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: the documentary, when we first see Kenny posing beside the ramp, 514 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: the voiceover explains that Kenny always wears his back brace 515 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: when making jumps, but that day he'd left it behind. 516 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: When I first saw the movie, I chalked it up 517 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: to vanity that as he enjoyed his moment in the spotlight, 518 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: he wouldn't want the brace visible under his tight jumpsuit. 519 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: But thinking on it now, how last second. The whole 520 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: thing was he probably didn't even have time to put 521 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: it on ten second countdown. 522 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 5: That's all I need. 523 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm not ready in ten seconds. 524 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 5: I'll never be ready. 525 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: If Kenny had taken any time to consider the insanity 526 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: of the jump, he probably wouldn't have been able to 527 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: do it. Kenny Powers, standing alone on the ramp in 528 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: his yellow jumpsuit and cowboy hat must have been terrified. 529 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: Beverly says that Kenny's relationship with Ken was more complicated 530 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: than just a special bond between stuntmen. For Kenny, she says, 531 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: the story begins much earlier. 532 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: He was always an injured soul because of his abusive upbringing. 533 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: He never could escape that as his father was a 534 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: binge drinker and his father was often very abusive to him. 535 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: He talked about his father swinging around by his testicles, 536 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: walks through the air. I think at one instant was 537 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 2: pretty traumatic for him. 538 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: Do you know how old he was. 539 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: It must have been before he was eight years old. 540 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 2: I think he might have gotten things from Ken Carter 541 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 2: that he never got from his father and that he 542 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 2: really needed emotionally, just spending time with him is showing 543 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: him affirmation and teaching him things and helping him to 544 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: grow is a person and it's professional and making Kenny 545 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 2: feel good about himself. When the car was floating in 546 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 2: the water, even with a broken vertebrae, he was getting 547 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: his self out And the first thing that he said, 548 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: did I do well? Are you pleased? He wanted to 549 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: please people. 550 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: Beverly says that after the failed jump, Ken visited Kenny 551 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: in the hospital and that they made amends. And the 552 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: thing about the photograph that Kenny carried around in an 553 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: eight by ten picture of Ken for the rest of 554 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: his life, Beverly says that not only is it true, 555 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: but that she gave Kenny a special leather portfolio that 556 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: he used to carry it around in everywhere he went. 557 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 2: He had a briefcase before the end, and he used it, 558 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: but he started using another portfolio. 559 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: Were there were there other photos in there that he 560 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: had no just Ken Carter's Yes? Why why do you 561 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: think that was? 562 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 2: I guess true love forgives King. He never quit loving Ken. 563 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: I who love Ken? 564 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: But in the end, all that love got Kenny powers 565 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: was the role of Judas in the Ken Carter life story. 566 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: But while most stories of betrayal begin as love stories. 567 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: This is the rare tale that ends as one. It 568 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: takes guts to risk your life for glory, but it 569 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: takes even more guts to risk your life for someone else, 570 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: knowing that risk will only lead to obscurity and shame. 571 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: A jump that big needs to be fueled by something 572 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: bigger than money or the spotlight. The greatest leaps always do. 573 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: After the failed super jump, Kenny continued performing stunts on 574 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: his own, but he never achieved even a fraction of 575 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: the fame and respect that Ken Carter had. In two 576 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, Kenny died and Beverly planned his funeral. 577 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: Everyone ate hot dogs and watched videos of Kenny stunts, 578 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: and of course they traded their craziest Kenny Power stories. 579 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 2: Kenny could be hilarious. You never knew what Kenny was 580 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 2: going to do. Kenny had a loaded down mote and 581 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 2: he drove up into a horse barn of one of 582 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 2: his friends and they maybe get it out real quick. 583 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 2: He just never knew what Kenny was going to do. 584 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 2: He had to be there. 585 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: A lot of Kenny Power stories end this way. You 586 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: just had to be there. For the time he snuck 587 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: up behind a friend at the urinal and kissed him 588 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: on the lips, or the time he wore his best 589 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: suit to visit the dogs at the town dump. It's 590 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: while listening to one after another of these stories that 591 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: something occurs to me. It's a crazy thought, but when 592 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm compelled to share with Beverly. Did you ever? Did 593 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: you ever see this TV show called Eastbound and Down? 594 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 2: I did? And this is interesting, you asked me. You 595 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 2: cannot tell me the writers did not know my Kini Powers. 596 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 1: East Bound and Down was a comedy series on HBO. 597 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,439 Speaker 1: The main character is a brash, foul mouthed, and washed 598 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: up athlete from the South and his name Kenny Powers. 599 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 5: Come on raising up? Who come on? 600 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 2: Go too? 601 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 5: Look at your fucking ball? 602 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 2: WHI okay, okay? Where he's going to fuck up? 603 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: But it's not just that his name is Kenny Powers. 604 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: The TV Kenny Powers macho swagger is eerily similar to 605 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: the real Kenny Powers, and so is his physical style, 606 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: right down to the goatee. 607 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 2: There's so many things that he said in that is 608 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 2: just exactly verbatim what Kenny used to say. 609 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: Do you remember what those moments were in the show? 610 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 2: I don't think I can repeat it. 611 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: Oh, please go ahead, After all, it is a butter 612 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: Tartan podcast. 613 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 2: Oh I don't talk this way, I can. He's say, 614 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 2: Kenny motherfucking Powers. This example, Kenny could use a F 615 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 2: word as a noun, verb, adverb, conjunction, adjective, all in 616 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 2: one sentence, in every sentence of the paragraph, quite effectively. 617 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, I'm fucking in and you're fucking out. 618 00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: I get the fuck out of my chair. 619 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 2: But just after Kenny did, Yeah, my son and I 620 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 2: used to sit and watch it and laugh it with 621 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 2: just like Kenny Kenny. It was hilarious. It really about comfort. 622 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 5: To me, the. 623 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: Idea of Beverly sitting on a couch in the days 624 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: after Kenny's death and taking solace in the antics of 625 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: possibly one of the crudest, most offensive characters in the 626 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: history of television was enough to warm my heart and 627 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: my researching fingers. I'm looking at the Wikipedia page for 628 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: Kenny Powers, the character from Eastbndon Down. Okay, yeah, it 629 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: has all of his nicknames here, the Peopil's Champion, the 630 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: Shelby Sensation, the man with the Golden d c k 631 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: uh doctor. Okay, some of these I can't even I 632 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: can't even say something. Even a podcast has its limits. 633 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: But as I continue to read, I see that Wikipedia 634 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: support it's our theory. The name Kenny Powers, it says, 635 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: was inspired by a real life American automotive stuntman in 636 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies by the same name. But there's no citation, 637 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 1: no way to confirm whether it's true. So before getting 638 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: off the phone with Beverly, I promise her I'll deploy 639 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: all of my journalistic learnings and all of Alex Bloomberg's 640 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: bitcoins to track down the truth. Eventually, I get a 641 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: hold of an executive at the production house that makes 642 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: eastbounden Down. He forwards my question about the Kenny Powers 643 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: character onto the show's creator and star, Danny McBride. The 644 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: executive says that mister McBride quote wants to take the 645 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: time to formulate a good answer for the next few weeks. 646 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,720 Speaker 1: I send emails checking in to see if there's anything 647 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: I can report back to Beverly. Even a simple yes 648 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: or no would be fine, I say, but I never 649 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,919 Speaker 1: get an answer. In the end, I decided to take 650 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: mister McBride's unusual response to mean that the real Kenny 651 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: Powers did receive a legacy, after all, For what greater 652 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,720 Speaker 1: homage can a person be paid than to be immortalized 653 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: in a hit TV show in such a way that 654 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: there's just enough ambiguity to avoid possible litigation over the 655 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: non consensual use of their identity and or likeness. 656 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 2: I'm Jenny Powers. I don't mean a benu. 657 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 5: Wayne. 658 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: You have fucking pissed me off, So I'm gonna go 659 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: ahead and go. But I'm not gonna stop yelling, because 660 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: then that'll mean I lost the fight. I love y'all 661 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: very much. Pains out. So maybe, somehow, possibly Kenny Powers 662 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: did land that jump into America after all. 663 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 5: Now that the furnitures returning to its goodwill home, now 664 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 5: that the last month's rent is skeeding with the damage 665 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 5: to poss take this moment to dissolve. 666 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 6: If we meant it, if we. 667 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,760 Speaker 1: Tried, were felt around for far too. 668 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,720 Speaker 2: Empty from things that accidentally Talk. 669 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein along 670 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Aitln Roberts, editing 671 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 1: by Jorge Justin Alex Bloomberg. Special thanks to Emily Condon, 672 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: Risky Rick Cruz, Cody Glive John Bolton, Freddie Sibley, Anna Sasnowski, 673 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: Lee Fordenberry, Tony As mccoppolis, Adam Simansky, Low Ann Leonard, 674 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: Dick Keller, Harry Simpson, Gordon Katik, Sayid T, John Thomas, 675 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: Blythe Terrell, Jessica of Weisberg, Devin Taylor, and Jackie Cohen. 676 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,760 Speaker 1: The show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by John K. Sampson, 677 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: Stephen Page and the amazing Christine Fellows. Additional music credits 678 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: for this episode can be found on our website, Gimbletmedia 679 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by the 680 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: Weaker Than's courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music 681 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: is by Hailey Shaw. You can watch the wonderful National 682 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: Film Board of Canada documentary The Devil at Your Heels 683 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: at NFB dot TA, follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight, 684 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: or email us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll 685 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,800 Speaker 1: have a new episode in two weeks 686 00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 5: Sun on in an Empty Room m HM