Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Car and Drivers Into Cars, a
Speaker 1: podcast from iHeartMedia is Ruby Studio, brought to you by
Speaker 1: eBay Motors. I'm Tony ki Roger, the editor in chief
Speaker 1: of Car and Driver, and I'm joined by my co host,
Speaker 1: former editor in chief and current Chief Brand and Content Officer,
Speaker 1: Eddie Alterman, and together we're Into Cars.
Speaker 2: Each episode of this podcast covers a new car that
Speaker 2: we think is worthy of your attention. The cars we
Speaker 2: select may feature a novel design, cutting edge engineering, or
Speaker 2: something entirely new. We'll cover the stories behind the cars,
Speaker 2: answering the whys and exploring the whats to bring you
Speaker 2: into the experience. We'll drive the things and let you
Speaker 2: listen in, and then we'll sit down with the people
Speaker 2: who made the cars to answer your questions about them.
Speaker 2: Come along for the ride and you'll hear it all
Speaker 2: the good, the bad, and the ugly in the way
Speaker 2: that only Car and Driver delivers.
Speaker 1: Today, we're examining the state of the affordable sportsdan by
Speaker 1: digging into the Accura Integra type. Closely related to the
Speaker 1: Honda Civic type are the Integer typees goes its own
Speaker 1: way by offering a more mature approach to performance. It's
Speaker 1: also unique against its competition because it only comes with
Speaker 1: the manual transmission. It follows the classic sport compact formula,
Speaker 1: a powerful turbocharge force cylinder, front wheel drive, a manual transmission,
Speaker 1: and a chansis built to handle.
Speaker 2: Let's dig into this thing. You and I have both
Speaker 2: driven it extensively on a variety of roads, and it's
Speaker 2: really different feeling than the Civic Type R on which
Speaker 2: it's based. And it's funny because when Acer came out
Speaker 2: in the mid eighties with cars like the Legend that
Speaker 2: was the first one, and then they did the NSX,
Speaker 2: it was more than just Honda Plus, right, you know,
Speaker 2: longitudinal front drive layouts. The Accura Vigor had the five
Speaker 2: cylinder to go up against Audi. The NSX was obviously
Speaker 2: everybody knows that's like the godhead supercar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was a luxury and performance brand.
Speaker 3: Right exactly.
Speaker 2: And there was so much value and content in these
Speaker 2: things because the end was so strong. But now we
Speaker 2: have an Accura with perfectly nice cars TLX, MDX, RDX
Speaker 2: and this Integra Type S, but they're alsort of Honda Plus.
Speaker 1: However, Yeah, this one's pretty special, and you could think
Speaker 1: of it as being a Honda Plus almost because it's
Speaker 1: so closely related to the Civic type bar. But it
Speaker 1: really goes its own way. Like you said, as soon
Speaker 1: as you get into it, you realize it's just a
Speaker 1: more mature car. The Civic type bars for under forty
Speaker 1: and the Integra is for people over forty. So I mean,
Speaker 1: if you've got hair growing out of your ears and
Speaker 1: it's falling out of your head, that's exactly the one
Speaker 1: you'll pick. And if you have hair on your head
Speaker 1: and none in your ears, you all for the Civic typear.
Speaker 2: Right. The Civic type bar is a hot hatch. The
Speaker 2: Integret type is a sport sedan, right that happens to
Speaker 2: have a hatchback. But yeah, it's not the same thing.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have the ridiculous wing, it doesn't look as crazy.
Speaker 2: Yes it has fender flares, but it's something only somebody
Speaker 2: in the know would necessarily notice, so you fly under
Speaker 2: the radar. And it also makes a really lovely daily driver.
Speaker 2: Accurate tuned it so that the suspension is just a
Speaker 2: little bit softer on rebound, so you don't feel those
Speaker 2: impacts as hard as frenetic. Yeah, it's not as like
Speaker 2: high strung as the CTR.
Speaker 1: But then you don't lose any of the great stuff.
Speaker 1: You don't lose any of the fun of the powertrain.
Speaker 1: You still have that same wonderful manual transmission, which is
Speaker 1: one of the best since like the S two thousand.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a spectacular manual transmission and you get
Speaker 1: five bonus horsepower. Oh nice, and it sounds better. I
Speaker 1: think it does. It does sound better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But you know the Civic type are the interior
Speaker 2: is so gautty. I mean it looks like a vape
Speaker 2: shop in there. And this is really pretty refined and
Speaker 2: nice and you know, great metallic surfaces and handles. And
Speaker 2: the one I think real improvement on the INTI is
Speaker 2: they went from the all titanium shift knob on the
Speaker 2: Civic type bar to a leather rapped one so you
Speaker 2: don't burn your hand.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, I mean, because Accur is a luxury brand,
Speaker 1: so you want to have that little strip. That little
Speaker 1: ring of leather makes all the difference. But it really
Speaker 1: actually does, because when it's incredibly hot out and the
Speaker 1: sun's been beating down on your shifter, you get like
Speaker 1: the Raiders of the Lost Arc style print in your hand.
Speaker 2: It's sort of the kind of car that isn't made
Speaker 2: a lot these days. There is a competitive set for it,
Speaker 2: which is like the BMW M two thirty five Grand
Speaker 2: coupe and the Audi S three, which is around the
Speaker 2: same horse power.
Speaker 1: And there is a cluster of these like three hundred
Speaker 1: horsepower small sedans, but crucially, none of them have manual transmissions,
Speaker 1: and they're all a lot heavier than the Accura as well.
Speaker 1: They're all three to four to five hundre pounds heavier
Speaker 1: because they're all have all wheel drive systems, which do
Speaker 1: enable them to put up some pretty impressive performance numbers
Speaker 1: when it comes to acceleration. But acceleration in everything. I
Speaker 1: know that sounds crazy coming carent driver. You know, we
Speaker 1: test everything in zero to sixty is so important to us,
Speaker 1: but it's not everything. And the Accurate does a lot
Speaker 1: of things that these other cars don't do because of
Speaker 1: driver involvement. And it's just a lighter car, so it
Speaker 1: feels more playful and it just feels like a slightly
Speaker 1: less serious car.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the whole point of this thing.
Speaker 2: It's not about the numbers. It truly returns great driver
Speaker 2: feel great chansis feel great engine sounds, whereas the other
Speaker 2: heavier cars feel a little dead and remote. By comparison,
Speaker 2: I think only the Audi S three in that competitive
Speaker 2: set has some of that playfulness. Maybe CT four V,
Speaker 2: but as you said, those are more sort of grown up,
Speaker 2: big boy cars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those cars all sort of want to be the
Speaker 1: bigger cars in their lineup in some way. But the
Speaker 1: Integra Type S doesn't at all. It doesn't want to
Speaker 1: be a TLX. It's real happy being an Integra Type S.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, there are a lot of fanboys,
Speaker 2: Accura lovers, and if you go and bring a trailer,
Speaker 2: you see crazy money being paid for old Integra and
Speaker 2: they don't necessarily like that this thing has four doors
Speaker 2: and that it's so expensive relative to the Civic type BR.
Speaker 2: But man, it's really worth it. You have to drive it,
Speaker 2: and it's what seven seventy one dollars more expensive than.
Speaker 1: It's not an insurmountable amount of money, And considering Civic
Speaker 1: type bars all had a huge price gouging basically happening
Speaker 1: at the dealer level. Maybe there's price parody. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Maybe it's cheaper, yeah, exactly. You might find an accurate
Speaker 1: dealer that's willing to sell it to you at sticker
Speaker 1: versus a Honda dealer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Like the accurate dealer is trying to
Speaker 2: get rid of this thing because it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: kind of manal trans and like the MDX fires going
Speaker 2: in there to the dealership going what what is this? Right?
Speaker 1: What is this crazy little thing? So it doesn't really
Speaker 1: quite fit into the lineup, but it would have fit
Speaker 1: into the lineup beautifully, as you pointed out in the nineties.
Speaker 1: But I think Accurate sort of moving in that direction.
Speaker 1: They brought the NSX out and that lasted until a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. So they do want performance, and
Speaker 1: they really they seem to understand that performance is really part.
Speaker 2: Of the Should we go drive it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go see what it's all about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, here we are. You know now that we're
Speaker 2: in the Integra type s to the earlier point about
Speaker 2: Acura's just being hot. The plus now, the Hondas are
Speaker 2: so good that if you plus them up a little bit,
Speaker 2: they become sort of incredible.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I mean one of the first seas you
Speaker 1: noticed is it's just easier to get into because of
Speaker 1: the seats over seas. Yeah, the bolsters aren't as big.
Speaker 1: And then there's no red carpet. You can get different
Speaker 1: interior colors in this car rather than than just the
Speaker 1: red carpet and the red front seats.
Speaker 2: But the level of fit and finish is extraordinarily high,
Speaker 2: and it's also true of the Honda. But it really
Speaker 2: feels at home here.
Speaker 1: And the nice thing I mean ergonomically, you get a
Speaker 1: volume knob, which is something Honda made a mistake of
Speaker 1: getting away from for a while. You get automatic climate control,
Speaker 1: you get a lot of luxury car bits to this.
Speaker 1: You get heated seats, which I don't think you can
Speaker 1: get in the Civic type Bar.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have a power seat on my side,
Speaker 2: Oh you don't.
Speaker 1: A lot of Porsches don't have that. It's weight saving,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And we got the hot audio in
Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah, it's got the ELS system.
Speaker 2: Do you know what ELS means?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Elliott Shiner El's he was the Steely Dan engineer.
Speaker 1: Oh is that right? Yeah? The standard system in the
Speaker 1: Civic Type Bar is a Bose system, So it also
Speaker 1: has a good a pretty good sound system. Should we
Speaker 1: get driving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get going, all right. See what this thing is?
Speaker 2: All of us shifters so sweet? It is sweet. I
Speaker 2: put on the rev match for you. Oh nice, because
Speaker 2: you're an old man.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And I'm an old man. That's why I
Speaker 1: prefer the type s have I told you about the
Speaker 1: law of conservation of hair, the law of conservation of mass, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So any hair you lose on your body ends up
Speaker 1: growing somewhere else. So I've lost a lot of hair
Speaker 1: on the top of my head, and I've noticed it's
Speaker 1: really coming into my ears. So this is really the type,
Speaker 1: as I think, is the car for guys who have
Speaker 1: some ear hair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mine has migrated from the top of my head
Speaker 2: to my back.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Love conservation of hair.
Speaker 2: I like that. Love conservators there you can either create
Speaker 2: nor destroy hair.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, it just comes out somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The ride doesn't beat you up.
Speaker 2: No, it's immediately apparent that it's not the jittery, taffeinated ride.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pacific type of like I'm a sports car. I'm exciting.
Speaker 2: I'm going to show you.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, that's that's not what's happening here at all.
Speaker 2: And they did that by relaxing the rebound damping.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it has it has multi mode, so you
Speaker 1: can still kick it up to a pretty stiff ride.
Speaker 1: But in the Honda on Track, when I drove that
Speaker 1: at VIR at Virginia International Raceway, I dialed it back
Speaker 1: because any rode and he like bumps on the track
Speaker 1: like unsettled the car, and I just wanted that much
Speaker 1: more compliance. But with this car, they were actually able
Speaker 1: to run it in the stiffer modes because the stiffer
Speaker 1: modes sort of align with the softer modes in the
Speaker 1: Civic Wild.
Speaker 2: But that said, the Civic is, Oh that sounds great now,
Speaker 2: I noticed a little torque steer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely from wheel drive. This isn't the most
Speaker 1: like even surface, so you'll get a little bit of
Speaker 1: a tug. But I mean it does have three hundred
Speaker 1: twenty horsepower, so there's a lot of power going through
Speaker 1: the front wheels. And it has the dual access struts
Speaker 1: which are sort of like GM's hyperstrut.
Speaker 2: Or forty knuckle separating the steering end the.
Speaker 1: Steering from the strut, and it just it just improves
Speaker 1: the wheel geometry and eliminates some of that torque steer.
Speaker 2: And this has a front limited slip.
Speaker 1: To yeah, it's got a helical front limited slip, so
Speaker 1: that basically allows power to go to the wheel that
Speaker 1: needs it most. I didn't get to drive this car
Speaker 1: on track, but I drove the Civic type bar on track,
Speaker 1: and unlike most front wheel drive cars where you have
Speaker 1: to be patient and wait and wait and wait to
Speaker 1: put the power down, you could just stop it and
Speaker 1: then the magical dift like just figured it out, no worries,
Speaker 1: no problem. It was really, really, really an amazing thing.
Speaker 1: And there's so much higher. It's two sixty five's all
Speaker 1: the way around, so it's like a ridiculous I mean,
Speaker 1: that was like a rear tire size on a nine
Speaker 1: to eleven not that long, and you get four of
Speaker 1: them here.
Speaker 2: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: So it's I think it pulls over a G, like
Speaker 1: just over a G on the skid pad. So our
Speaker 1: skid pad test is a large circle and we basically
Speaker 1: test how long the car hangs onto the ground and
Speaker 1: it pulls over a G. So it's basically your weight
Speaker 1: being pulled left or to the right. It's pretty amazing
Speaker 1: that a car does.
Speaker 2: That one gravity. Oh nice maneuver, sir, that was a
Speaker 2: good piece of driving.
Speaker 1: We're driving on public roads.
Speaker 2: Yes, and love being Annaburm, Michigan. I also have a theory,
Speaker 2: not unlike your hair conservation theory, which is the more
Speaker 2: intellectuals you have in a city, the worse the driving
Speaker 2: will be. Yes, and Boston is my kind of proof
Speaker 2: of interest there. Oh yeah, that shifter is so sweet.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 1: We talked about it before. But just this little piece
Speaker 1: of leather here makes all the difference.
Speaker 2: Look, it's got this little ultra suede booty, this Alcantara
Speaker 2: style booty. That's a cool little touch. And I'm not
Speaker 2: feeling like I'm in a Honda.
Speaker 1: No, it's much quieter just going down the road. And
Speaker 1: in our testing the sound level meter didn't really pick
Speaker 1: up a difference. It's seventy miles an hour. They were
Speaker 1: both the same amount of sound. They were both seventy
Speaker 1: three decibels. It's just the quality of sound character so
Speaker 1: much better. You don't get all the tire noise, you
Speaker 1: don't get very much wind rush, you don't get any
Speaker 1: engine drone. Really, it's really it's the adult version of
Speaker 1: the platform.
Speaker 2: There's a lot more sound deadening for sure.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't really weigh that much more either. It
Speaker 1: weighs like thirty or forty or fifty pounds more than
Speaker 1: the Civic Type bar, so it's not like you're putting
Speaker 1: on this huge weight gain. It's not like a Lincoln
Speaker 1: town Car style sound deadening experience either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much does the Civic Type are wing way?
Speaker 1: But yeah, the lightweight of this car is really what
Speaker 1: makes I mean, to me, what makes it and the
Speaker 1: Civic Type are really special.
Speaker 2: It's got sort of, I don't want to say, a
Speaker 2: retro feel, but it does feel unlike a lot of
Speaker 2: cars now that feel very heavy and plodding and sort
Speaker 2: of clamp over the road. This thing is just light
Speaker 2: on its feet. It dances around.
Speaker 1: And there aren't a lot of cars left like that,
Speaker 1: I know. I mean, even it's competition, they all weigh
Speaker 1: a lot more because of their all wheel drive systems,
Speaker 1: and they all sort of aspire to be a car
Speaker 1: that they a larger car or a more refined car.
Speaker 1: This car sort of is happy being the kind of
Speaker 1: car that it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's playful and it's not I mean,
Speaker 2: I just find myself gravitating towards smaller cars nowadays because
Speaker 2: everything has you know, so much extra mass, and the
Speaker 2: steering is so dead on so many cars now with
Speaker 2: you know, electric power assist instead of hydraulic assists, and
Speaker 2: there's a numbing effect that's happened on a lot of cars.
Speaker 2: And this is a rare sort of car that's both
Speaker 2: very alive but also subdued when it needs to be.
Speaker 2: It's not always a band faced totally totally of like
Speaker 2: being a great daily driver and not being annoying. You
Speaker 2: can put people in the car and they don't like
Speaker 2: sort of like look at you strangely because your car's
Speaker 2: really noisier, rides terribly. So we're going to go on
Speaker 2: a highway on ramp right now, all right, Tony is
Speaker 2: a master.
Speaker 1: There's some bumpy too, yeah, I mean, there's just no
Speaker 1: lack of grip. And what's funny is there's you know,
Speaker 1: two thirds, almost two thirds of the weight of the
Speaker 1: car is in the front and you just don't notice it.
Speaker 1: The car just grips and grips and grips and grips,
Speaker 1: and that's the beauty of a sports It can do
Speaker 1: almost everything that a sports car can do, but you
Speaker 1: get all this comfort, and I think as if you
Speaker 1: define sports dan in that way, this is a better
Speaker 1: sports sedan than say the Civic type bar, which, like
Speaker 1: you said, is more of a hot hatch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So if we've toggled through the modes in the Civic
Speaker 1: type bar, you get sort of a different gauge cluster.
Speaker 1: You get like a track gauge cluster, and this one
Speaker 1: you just get the two gauges, and they're virtual gauges.
Speaker 1: I should mention it's when I'm looking at a display
Speaker 1: of a tachometer and a spinometer. They could have made
Speaker 1: real gauges, which I kind of prefer, but I'm getting
Speaker 1: used to these digital gauges.
Speaker 2: I prefer analog. Now we're back of mugs the UH.
Speaker 1: And the power builds pretty linearly. There's not like a
Speaker 1: big there's not a lot of turbo lag. It doesn't
Speaker 1: you're not waiting for the turbo necessarily. It builds like
Speaker 1: not quite like a naturally aspirated car, but certainly like.
Speaker 2: It's pretty linear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it pulls pretty strong throughout. There's
Speaker 1: no like surges, there's no like waiting for the power.
Speaker 2: And it sounds good. It sounds refined. For you know,
Speaker 2: turbocharge two liter four sounds pretty pretty ready and willing.
Speaker 1: If somebody said there's a two and a half liter
Speaker 1: under the hood or the turbocharger, I would have no
Speaker 1: reason to doubt them. It did turn out to be
Speaker 1: a little bit slower than the.
Speaker 2: Civic type AR.
Speaker 1: I think the Civic type AR did sixty and four
Speaker 1: to nine and this one did five to one. But
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's going to notice that different. Who
Speaker 1: can tell no one, you know.
Speaker 2: And also, just generally speaking, acceleration is a war that's
Speaker 2: been won, you know, by electrics, and acceleration is not
Speaker 2: the achievement it used to be. It's more about to
Speaker 2: me at least, and I think a lot of enthusiasts
Speaker 2: more about the kind of feedback it car gives you.
Speaker 2: You were talking about sports sedans and sports cars earlier.
Speaker 2: To me, the definition of a sports sidan is a
Speaker 2: vehicle that gives you a good deal of feedback and
Speaker 2: feel sensitive and gives you information about what's happening at
Speaker 2: the tires, gives you information about what's happening under the hood,
Speaker 2: at the break calibers.
Speaker 1: They should be fun at every speed that's right. That
Speaker 1: feedback makes the car entertaining and fun at every speed.
Speaker 1: But you don't want so much feedback because race cars
Speaker 1: have a lot of feedback. You don't want so much
Speaker 1: feedback that it's annoying. You want just the right amount
Speaker 1: and then in balance. And this car does the balance
Speaker 1: thing really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The way the steering feels, the way the brakes feel,
Speaker 1: the way they accelerate, it's all in harmony, and it all.
Speaker 2: Works really really well. I couldn't agree more. And I
Speaker 2: think they really really nailed it. And all of those
Speaker 2: little subtle refinements that are happening throughout this car, it's
Speaker 2: down to somebody caring about them and somebody spending the
Speaker 2: time and honing and tuning and getting those inputs harmonious.
Speaker 1: It takes a long time to dial a car in
Speaker 1: like this and to get it this right.
Speaker 2: And at this price. I know, people say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: it's fifty three thousand dollars, and that is it's a
Speaker 2: lot of money. I mean it was a lot of money.
Speaker 2: I mean the average price of.
Speaker 1: A new car was like, there's not much less than this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think there's a tremendous amount of
Speaker 2: value here relative to the Germans.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm noticing is you can see really
Speaker 1: well out of this car. Yes, Like the A pillars
Speaker 1: aren't that big, small, that thick. The side glass is big.
Speaker 1: A lot of car companies like to chase building a
Speaker 1: car that looks like a concept car. That's sort of
Speaker 1: the Camaro's curse. It's a great look at car, but
Speaker 1: then when you get in it, you can't see out
Speaker 1: of it. This you can see everything. I can see
Speaker 1: down the hood perfectly. The windshield is somewhat upright. It
Speaker 1: feels like not an old car, like you said, but
Speaker 1: it has touchstones of the past.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's that whole Honda philosophy of person
Speaker 2: maximum machine minimum. These cars sort of disappear a little bit.
Speaker 2: A court does that too. There's a lot of space inside,
Speaker 2: there's great visibility out. That's always been a hon to Hallmark,
Speaker 2: and it extends to the Accura here too, for sure,
Speaker 2: no one.
Speaker 1: It makes it just so wonderful and livable when you're
Speaker 1: just commuting, when you're just driving around. But then you
Speaker 1: throw this thing on a racetrack and it'll do it well.
Speaker 2: I think this drive really sort of encapsulates this car's
Speaker 2: capabilities because we're driving around town and we're keeping out
Speaker 2: of harm's way, and then you throw it into a
Speaker 2: corner and it's like, oh my god, that preob.
Speaker 1: And then if you're bored, you just do what I've
Speaker 1: been doing and just play with the shifter endlessly, just
Speaker 1: going up and down the gears and having it.
Speaker 2: Why can they do this and nobody else can do
Speaker 2: shifters as well?
Speaker 1: I don't know, nobody cares about manuals anymore. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: this is just magic, and it's short throws and it's
Speaker 1: just I would never miss a gear.
Speaker 2: It's so perfectly damped. It never goes into the wrong slot.
Speaker 2: It just feels so honed and tuned and right.
Speaker 1: And the clutch take up is predict yes, it's like
Speaker 1: not heavy, it's not light. It catches predictably. It's just wonderful.
Speaker 2: The best shifter I ever experienced was in the hot
Speaker 2: S two thousand exactly. This is not too far off
Speaker 2: far off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also delicate at the same time, like
Speaker 1: it's happy to you drive it, you know, with a
Speaker 1: delicate hand. The Integra really manages the wheel spin like
Speaker 1: you get basically no wheel spin because it's just maximizing
Speaker 1: the amount of traction that the car has converts all
Speaker 1: of that energy to the road instead of having a
Speaker 1: bunch of like time robbing wheel spin. Yeah oh yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just tucks up really nicely. And that's not easy
Speaker 1: to do with a front wheel drive car with three
Speaker 1: and twenty horsepower to get that magic right.
Speaker 2: Cool, Well, here we are back at base. Okay, let's
Speaker 2: take it in visually. Yeah, it's beefy looking. It is.
Speaker 1: The fender flares. I think everything a pillar forward, so
Speaker 1: that's the windshield. Pillar forward is unique to the type S.
Speaker 2: Yes, but that's it. Yeah, And it's wide. It looks
Speaker 2: wide up front. The wheels are great. I mean it's
Speaker 2: splitspoke wheels. Yeah, it's a wide wheel.
Speaker 1: It's a nine and a half inch wheel on a
Speaker 1: with a two sixty five tire. That's a lot more
Speaker 1: tire than they put on the regular Integra.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why it hooks up so great.
Speaker 1: It hooks up amazingly well. And the same in the back.
Speaker 1: It's got a square set up and then they've got
Speaker 1: the fender flaring back too.
Speaker 2: And so you can kind of see the bones of
Speaker 2: the Civic under here, but it's pretty well masked it is.
Speaker 1: It looks like a different car, and you don't have
Speaker 1: the giant spoiler of the Type R. The Type S
Speaker 1: just as a small carbon fiber lips spoiler. People that
Speaker 1: know will not, but people that don't know aren't. It's
Speaker 1: not going to get a second glance probably, but right
Speaker 1: for people in the know, I mean, the fender flares
Speaker 1: mean a lot, the three exhaust pipes mean a lot.
Speaker 2: And that's beefy from the back with that diffuser, and
Speaker 2: I love a hatch, you know. It just increases the
Speaker 2: utility of.
Speaker 1: The car, oh totally, and the practicality just goes up,
Speaker 1: goes up, goes up.
Speaker 2: We're back at our desks after that drive. That was
Speaker 2: a fun one and I feel like I know a
Speaker 2: lot more about the Integra Type best than I do
Speaker 2: before we set out. Do you have any other questions
Speaker 2: about it? I think I do, Eddie.
Speaker 1: But there are some things that only those on the
Speaker 1: inside can tell us about a car. So let's reach
Speaker 1: out to accurate product planner Jonathan Rivers and maybe find
Speaker 1: out what a product planner does too.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, after the break, we'll talk to Jonathan. Welcome
Speaker 2: back to car and drivers into cars. Thanks for being
Speaker 2: with us, Jonathan. We're excited to talk about the integritypees today,
Speaker 2: or as you call it, the its. I thought you
Speaker 2: said IBS and I was like, I have that, yeah,
Speaker 2: But before we get into the car, your job is
Speaker 2: really cool. So what does a product planner do? Can
Speaker 2: you explain that to our audience?
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: You know, it's a question I get asked quite a lot,
Speaker 4: because you know, if you're not in the know or
Speaker 4: in the industry, you actually don't know what we do.
Speaker 4: And so I think the best way to kind of
Speaker 4: dumb it down a little bit is we kind of
Speaker 4: come up with the recipe for what a future vehicle
Speaker 4: will be, and once we can get that approved, then
Speaker 4: we're working together with the designers, the engineers, the production associates,
Speaker 4: and ultimately like the sales and marketing folks to get
Speaker 4: that in the customer's hands.
Speaker 2: So you kind of scope out the mark and say
Speaker 2: we need a vehicle here.
Speaker 3: At a high level.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it's quite detailed, right, because we're working
Speaker 4: from the original concept of the vehicle all the way
Speaker 4: through mass production, and so along the way we're looking
Speaker 4: at like you said, market trends, you know, doing customer clinics,
Speaker 4: focus groups, talking to the dealers, the media, trying to
Speaker 4: get all kinds of insights as to, like you said,
Speaker 4: what would be the best positioning for a new product,
Speaker 4: but then really starting to get into the weeds with
Speaker 4: what are the features, the technologies, what does it look like,
Speaker 4: what are the colors?
Speaker 3: All these things.
Speaker 2: Tony and I were talking earlier about kind of the
Speaker 2: history of Accura and how it went from very sort
Speaker 2: of bespoke engineering, high feature stuff to sort of Honda
Speaker 2: plus in a way, you know, I mean to cast
Speaker 2: no aspersions by saying that, in a sense, the Honda
Speaker 2: stuff has gotten so good, where does Accura go from there?
Speaker 2: But did you plan this alongside the civic type? Are
Speaker 2: was there a crossing of the streams, if you will,
Speaker 2: between Honda and Accura when it came time to you know,
Speaker 2: plan civic the highest expression of civic, then a level
Speaker 2: above it with Akira.
Speaker 4: So to maybe take a quick step back, I came
Speaker 4: into the planning role back in twenty fifteen for Acura,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I mean back then, Hey, I'll give you
Speaker 4: a fair point. I mean the lineup was quite different.
Speaker 4: I think the brand direction was quite different, and so
Speaker 4: that was around when Essex was getting close to launch
Speaker 4: and the brand kind of went back to its roots,
Speaker 4: right with precision craft to performance and for all the
Speaker 4: reasons you just mentioned, so that we weren't just viewed
Speaker 4: as a Honda plus and that we did offer a
Speaker 4: true alternative to Honda. So internally, it's not about being
Speaker 4: better than Honda, but it's about just offering a different alternative.
Speaker 4: In our case, it really is about leveraging the performance.
Speaker 4: Because if you go back to eighty six when the
Speaker 4: brand launched, when an Integra was there and obviously the
Speaker 4: legend and then eventually INSX and things like that, that's
Speaker 4: what Accura was known for. And so by us pivoting
Speaker 4: back there, it really changed the entire brand, the marketing,
Speaker 4: and then ultimately the product lineup. Different designers, different engineers,
Speaker 4: They're built in different locations, so there's different production associates,
Speaker 4: different product planners. I'm not the product planning pacific type are.
Speaker 4: We had our own vision of what we wanted it
Speaker 4: to be, all the while being aware of what this
Speaker 4: other product was going to be too.
Speaker 1: Jonathan, thank you for saving the manuals with this car,
Speaker 1: By the way, how hard was it to convince people
Speaker 1: within the company to only offer this car with a
Speaker 1: manual transmission?
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny because I have a car and driver
Speaker 4: hashtag save the Manual's coffee cup.
Speaker 3: It's actually on my desk.
Speaker 1: So we get to do some stickers too.
Speaker 4: If you'd like some, please, I'll put them on my
Speaker 4: laptop at work. So no, I mean, honestly, that question
Speaker 4: is actually more relevant to the regular Integer, right, because
Speaker 4: you know, once the regular Integra was developed and we
Speaker 4: had already decided to put the six speed manual in
Speaker 4: that car, putting it on something like a Type S
Speaker 4: was a no brainer. And then kind of to Eddie's point,
Speaker 4: you know, the fact that we were leverage some hardware
Speaker 4: from Civic Type Are, well, we already had one of
Speaker 4: the best manuals in the business. So yeah, no reason
Speaker 4: not to put it into this car. And of course
Speaker 4: we get asked questions all the time, why didn't you
Speaker 4: make a DCT this or auto this?
Speaker 1: But that was my next question.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, to me, the answer is super easy.
Speaker 4: We wanted the ultimate driver's car. We wanted a true enthusiast,
Speaker 4: engaging driver's car, and not that you can't get that
Speaker 4: with a DCT. But fundamentally, what we were trying to
Speaker 4: do was create a very fun, engaging and really a
Speaker 4: unique product in the marketplace.
Speaker 2: And some manufacturers offer manual, but the manual isn't that great.
Speaker 2: And in this case, this is like one of the
Speaker 2: greatest shifting cars. And this is consistent across Honda and
Speaker 2: Accura from back in the sex days. So how do
Speaker 2: you do it in like one hundred words or less?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the secret? Sauce?
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, you go make me give up
Speaker 4: that recipe, right, And look, I'm not here to take
Speaker 4: credit for everything. I'm clearly not the engineers that work
Speaker 4: the magic and make these things happen. But what I
Speaker 4: can say as being you know, someone I've been at
Speaker 4: the company fourteen years, I've been here a while, and
Speaker 4: I can say it's really just in our DNA and
Speaker 4: like how we want the man machine to not just
Speaker 4: be equal, it's got to be about the person that's
Speaker 4: controlling the vehicle. And so when that's at the forefront
Speaker 4: of how you engineer and how you think, it comes
Speaker 4: through in the product itself. Because like you said, anybody
Speaker 4: can make a transmission and you know, we can use
Speaker 4: the same components and hardware, but it's the tuning and
Speaker 4: the feeling. It's almost this kind of like raw notchiness
Speaker 4: in the car that just it feels so good every
Speaker 4: time you switch gears.
Speaker 1: Right, But you also have to know, I mean the
Speaker 1: engineers also have to know what's good. And with a
Speaker 1: history like S two thousand, you've set the bar pretty high.
Speaker 1: I've driven a lot of manuals, and it's like, what
Speaker 1: other manuals have these engineers driven.
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny because you know, as I sit here
Speaker 4: and say, you know, I worked here for fourteen years,
Speaker 4: many of our development engineers and other chief engineers they've
Speaker 4: been here twenty five thirty years. So they are the
Speaker 4: same guy that did the S two thousand transmission, right like,
Speaker 4: or they were involved in that project. So a lot
Speaker 4: of that prowess and that knowledge and that knowhow has
Speaker 4: has stayed within the company and continues to trickle down today.
Speaker 2: So other vehicles in this competitive set, like the OLDS
Speaker 2: three or the bmw M two thirty five Grand Coupe,
Speaker 2: they don't offer manuals. What were you benchmarking in this segment?
Speaker 2: Maybe it was outside the segment. What sort of cars
Speaker 2: were you driving and saying we need to beat that?
Speaker 3: So and this is true.
Speaker 4: I think for any product planner, right when we talk
Speaker 4: about competitive sets, there can be different competitive sets depending
Speaker 4: on where you're trying to benchmark. So I think when
Speaker 4: you look at a total vehicle, like, okay, what's the
Speaker 4: price point where it is in the segment? You know,
Speaker 4: the cars that you just mentioned, the S three, the
Speaker 4: M two thirty five I, the CLA thirty five, those
Speaker 4: types of small premium sedan performance vehicles are a clear
Speaker 4: kind of competitive set for this car. But yeah, I'll
Speaker 4: be honest to say that we're obviously aware of, you know,
Speaker 4: things like the golf are and other products that could
Speaker 4: be cross shopped in that type of segment. With that said,
Speaker 4: kind of going full circle back to you know why
Speaker 4: we did the manual only is because again that makes
Speaker 4: this car stand out in that segment. Again, there's clearly
Speaker 4: people that want DCT, but you know, if they're looking
Speaker 4: for a manual, they kind of have to come to us.
Speaker 1: I have a question about the sound in the Type
Speaker 1: S versus the Type R. Our sound level meter finds
Speaker 1: virtually no difference between a Type S and a Type R.
Speaker 1: But the human ear is not a sound level meters.
Speaker 1: You know, why are they so different to our ears?
Speaker 3: Really good question.
Speaker 4: I own an Integrat Type S and so I've now
Speaker 4: obviously outside of the development, like I live with it now,
Speaker 4: and so what I can say is that in the
Speaker 4: Civic Type R, I feel like you get a lot
Speaker 4: more induction noise, a lot more noise from the intake.
Speaker 3: It almost feels like.
Speaker 4: It's coming from the front of the vehicle. And I
Speaker 4: love that because that's also just total Honda, right. It
Speaker 4: just you know, rips and screams like the Hondas of
Speaker 4: the eighties and the nineties exactly.
Speaker 1: That's like an NSX thing. You just hear it inside
Speaker 1: the car.
Speaker 3: Right, Whereas Integra Type BEST.
Speaker 4: Not that you don't get some of those noises, but
Speaker 4: one of the key development areas for the car was
Speaker 4: the exhaust, and we wanted it to sound raw and aggressive,
Speaker 4: and you know that's why it's got those you know,
Speaker 4: berbals and pops and things like that. And so I
Speaker 4: feel like you're getting a lot more of that coming
Speaker 4: from the rear of the vehicle versus the intake and
Speaker 4: induction noise from the front of the vehicle, and like
Speaker 4: to your point, from maybe a pure decibel standpoint, they're
Speaker 4: not different, but where the sounds coming from and what
Speaker 4: you're hearing is quite different between the two.
Speaker 2: Cars, Jonathan, I wanted to get back to something you
Speaker 2: were saying. In evaluating and putting together the competitive set
Speaker 2: for this car, most of those cars are all wheel drive,
Speaker 2: and Accura has a great and evolving super handling all
Speaker 2: wheel drive system. Was there any thought given to making
Speaker 2: this at least optionally all wheel.
Speaker 4: Drive from a development standpoint, No, But your point is valid.
Speaker 4: You know, as we look across the segment, we recognize
Speaker 4: that it's either optional its standard, and we also recognize
Speaker 4: again there's a lot of people that just want it
Speaker 4: because you know, if you're in inclement weather you've got
Speaker 4: a ton of snow, that's obviously a thing. But at
Speaker 4: the same time, knowing what our chassis was capable of,
Speaker 4: knowing the platform that we were utilizing, it wouldn't have
Speaker 4: made a lot of sense to try to tear that
Speaker 4: up just to add an all will drive. Look, I
Speaker 4: tell people, they'll go, hey, you know, because they say, oh,
Speaker 4: the Integra type I should have been a manual and
Speaker 4: should have been all will drive I go.
Speaker 3: We got a car like that. It's called the TLX it.
Speaker 1: Rips Jonathan, you own an integer type S when you're
Speaker 1: in it, is there one particular part of the car
Speaker 1: that you're proud of that you worked on, that you
Speaker 1: fought for.
Speaker 3: Oof, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4: There's a lot, you know, I think, because you know,
Speaker 4: the vehicle development is several years, right, so there's there's
Speaker 4: a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: A lot of losses.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, blood, sweat and tears. But yeah, when
Speaker 4: I drive it, I'm just happy it exists. And you know,
Speaker 4: the acceleration is really strong. But this car is about
Speaker 4: so much more than just sort of numbers or raw performance.
Speaker 4: It's a little Miata like in that sense where it's
Speaker 4: about driver feel and driver feedback.
Speaker 2: And did you have to fight for that? Did you
Speaker 2: have to say, you know what, the numbers aren't important here? Absolutely?
Speaker 4: And again I feel like, you know, some customers are
Speaker 4: enthusiasts in general.
Speaker 3: They're so quick to write off cars.
Speaker 4: If de Zerto sixty is not three suconds and you know,
Speaker 4: that's just not what this car is about. I tell
Speaker 4: people all the time, I'm like, just get in it
Speaker 4: and drive it and then come back and let me
Speaker 4: know what you think. And there's just this joy, right,
Speaker 4: there's this joy with like the connected feel. The steering
Speaker 4: is a great way. The ergonomics are good, Like that's
Speaker 4: very important. I think that gets overlooked a lot, Like
Speaker 4: you know, are you sitting in the right position? Can
Speaker 4: you heal and tow All these things kind of come
Speaker 4: together with like the position, the steering way, the chassis balance,
Speaker 4: The power's good, the sounds good.
Speaker 3: The audio is really good.
Speaker 4: Like there's there's just all these things that kind of
Speaker 4: accumulate together to create this really like awesome driving experience
Speaker 4: that again, it just doesn't come through inspects and numbers.
Speaker 4: And I know, moving forward, every va in the world
Speaker 4: is going to be faster than this car in a
Speaker 4: straight line, but it won't matter, Like this car will
Speaker 4: still be special, right, And that's what we tried to create.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned a little bit about the exhaust system.
Speaker 1: Are the Honda folks envious of the Accura's exhaust And
Speaker 1: is that because the Accura is basically just for our
Speaker 1: market and so you could get away with a little
Speaker 1: bit larder exhaust.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you nailed it on the head. So the Civic
Speaker 4: Type are being a global product and having to adhere
Speaker 4: to other stricter sound regulations, particular in Europe, and that
Speaker 4: did at some level limit maybe what they could do.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you know, here's a little
Speaker 4: side story. Early on in development, I actually owned a
Speaker 4: Focus RS.
Speaker 2: Oh great car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was fun. It was a good car.
Speaker 1: Did you swap out the dampers?
Speaker 3: I wanted to?
Speaker 1: That was way too So that's one of the stiffest
Speaker 1: cars ever.
Speaker 4: And then it had a button to make it even stifferent, right,
Speaker 4: Like it was like, who does that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: So, but I tell you what I bought that car.
Speaker 4: Admittedly I had a very ulterior motive, right, and it
Speaker 4: was to push our development engineers. I actually gave the
Speaker 4: chief engineer the Integra type ass. He came out to
Speaker 4: La We're early on in development. I said, hey, take
Speaker 4: this car for a spin, you know, I just got this.
Speaker 4: And he came back and he's like laughing. He goes,
Speaker 4: he goes, what kind of exhaust did you put on this?
Speaker 4: I go, nope, that's factory I go, this is what
Speaker 4: it's He was in complete disbelief, but that really changed
Speaker 4: some things. He went back to Japan, and you know,
Speaker 4: then they started benchmarking that and like the M two
Speaker 4: and all these cars that have these burbos and crackles,
Speaker 4: and they're like, this is what people like.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yes to me, there's such a great
Speaker 2: refinement in the ride on the its and that's a
Speaker 2: dark art And how did you figure that out?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: It was funny because you know, like I said about
Speaker 4: just the overall planning of this versus something like the
Speaker 4: civic type bar, we knew what direction they were going in,
Speaker 4: and not that it's a bad direction at all, Like
Speaker 4: that car is what it is. It's meant for track.
Speaker 4: It's got the crazy bucket seats for track. It's got
Speaker 4: the very stiff yet compliant, you know, suspension set up
Speaker 4: for track duty. And so we knew our concept was
Speaker 4: to be this ultimate canyon carving like street performer. So
Speaker 4: for us, it was about how do we like make
Speaker 4: this car livable on a daily basis, but yet still
Speaker 4: be totally capable of handling like Mulholland or you know,
Speaker 4: the Ortega Highway or just some crazy canyon blast. Right,
Speaker 4: Could you take any one of our type best models
Speaker 4: to the track?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could.
Speaker 4: That's why they got big brimbo breaks. You know, they've
Speaker 4: got summer tires, they've got turbo engines and lots of power.
Speaker 4: We knew the buyer was going to be maybe a
Speaker 4: little bit older, maybe has some kids. Maybe you want
Speaker 4: to use it, you know, take real usage of that,
Speaker 4: like extra utility, and so we knew you couldn't have
Speaker 4: this ultra stiff suspension setting, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we sort of see him as under forty over forty. Well,
Speaker 1: I know what camp I'm in, Yeah, exactly. Likewise, thanks
Speaker 1: for giving me away, Tony. Yeah, I'm just a little
Speaker 1: bit about yourself. What was a dreamcar when you were
Speaker 1: growing up.
Speaker 4: I'm from Michigan, so I loved like a Dodge Viper
Speaker 4: Man those like a Dodge Viper GTS the blue with
Speaker 4: the white racing stripes, like I had that poster on
Speaker 4: my wall growing up. But I tell you what for me,
Speaker 4: when I was eighteen, that was the first time I
Speaker 4: learned to really drive stick shift And it was on
Speaker 4: my cousin's nineteen ninety eight accurate Integra GSR Oh wow.
Speaker 3: It was total nineties.
Speaker 4: That dark green you know what I've talked about, that
Speaker 4: dark green with beige interior. But you know, I had
Speaker 4: tried to drive some of my friends like fox Body
Speaker 4: Mustangs and some Camaros that you know, were manuals and Italy.
Speaker 3: I wasn't very good at it. I was stalling.
Speaker 4: It was just it wasn't fun, right, And so then finally, I,
Speaker 4: you know, my cousin was crazy enough to let me
Speaker 4: drive his car. And okay, I struggle at the beginning,
Speaker 4: but after five minutes, all of a sudden, it became
Speaker 4: fun and I loved it, and yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: I was sold after that.
Speaker 2: And then got to ask this question, what was your
Speaker 2: first car? Oh?
Speaker 4: Does anyone ever want to say that? Let alad on
Speaker 4: a podcast with a car and driver. But you can
Speaker 4: you decline to answer if you want, no, no, I'll say
Speaker 4: it was a Mercury Cougar.
Speaker 2: Hey.
Speaker 4: I tried to spice it up as much as I
Speaker 4: put some wheels on it, whatever else.
Speaker 2: But that was my first ride. So hey, there's worse.
Speaker 2: People were excited about that when it came out.
Speaker 1: It was a cool car? Was it was Monday oh coop?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, not a bad Verse car. Thank you so much, Jonathan.
Speaker 2: It was so great to be with you and to
Speaker 2: get your take on what really was happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: So thank you for all that you do and thanks
Speaker 2: for being with us.
Speaker 1: Yeah or he is a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 4: Jonathan, Hey, thanks to both of you, thanks for having
Speaker 4: us and yeah forward, we'll have to go for a
Speaker 4: cruise Sunday, so absolutely we'll take you about that.
Speaker 2: That interview was brought to you by Ebaymotors. Visit ebaymotors
Speaker 2: dot com for more.
Speaker 1: Car friends. Driving the Integer Type S is a lot
Speaker 1: of fun, and that's exactly what a Sportsidan should be.
Speaker 1: It should have a high percentage of amusement, but it
Speaker 1: should also be a car that you want to drive
Speaker 1: daily and something that won't make your passengers uncomfortable. For
Speaker 1: our money, the Type S nails the sports Adan brief.
Speaker 2: For a front driver with a four cylinder. This thing
Speaker 2: is the real deal. It honors the legacy of the
Speaker 2: Integral while pushing things forward in a cool and modern way. Hell,
Speaker 2: I'd buy one.
Speaker 1: For more on the accurate Integra Type S, visit carent
Speaker 1: driver dot com and be sure to pick up the
Speaker 1: latest issue of Car and Driver magazine.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on this episode of Car
Speaker 2: and Drivers Into Cars.
Speaker 1: And be sure to tune into next week's episode where
Speaker 1: we drive two BMW five series Sedan's the all electric
Speaker 1: I five M sixty and see how it compares to
Speaker 1: the gas powered five IX. It's going to be the
Speaker 1: gas versus electric showdown you won't want to miss. Let's
Speaker 1: still a quick launch, okay, O hard I love fantastic.
Speaker 2: You know humans weren't engineered to go accelerate that gig.
Speaker 2: If you enjoy the show, join us every week for
Speaker 2: new episodes, and don't forget to rate and review wherever
Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: Car and Drivers Into Cars is a production of Car
Speaker 1: and Driver and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio. Our show is hosted
Speaker 1: by Eddie Alterman and myself Tony Kiroga. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post Production is Matt Stillo.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Sierra Kaiser. This show was edited
Speaker 1: by Sierra Spreen special thanks to our location sound recordist
Speaker 1: Matthew Cisco. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.