WEBVTT - More Than a Store Value 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.720 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.000 Maddie, we've gone wow almost this whole week without talking 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.200 much about bitcoin. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.680 I mean, I can't believe you've been able to do it, Tim. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.880 I know, well, I've been saving it for this afternoon 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.159 because it's our weekly segment where we talk about cryptocurrencies. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.159 Very please right now to have Mni Bali joining us. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.520 He's the co founder and CEO of Trust Machines, also 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.800 the co founder of Stacks. When he joins us via zoom, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:44.760 could have you with us this AFTERNOONI but I'm on 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.479 your website for Trust Machines, and what you promised to 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.479 do is build a decentralized economy on bitcoin. I think 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.080 what people understand about bitcoin and cryptocurrency is how we 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.080 can use it as a currency. But I don't think 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.240 a lot of people understand how you can build build 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.840 on it. What do you mean by that? 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:04.280 Yeah? 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.800 Absolutely, thanks thanks for having me. So I think if 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:07.919 if bitcoin is money. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.960 So what we're talking about is building the entire financial 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.279 infrastructure and financial markets around it. And we've actually seen 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.880 early signs of that in other ecosystems like Etherium and Solana. 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.120 But Bitcoin happens to be the largest handbook, the most durable, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.440 the most recognizable brand, and I think it's sort of 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.000 like surprising so far we haven't seen more financial infrastructure builds. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.840 Are bitcoin itself like, who what would you think that 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.040 should be built on it? Right now? 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.240 I think the things that come to minds first of all, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.520 are decentilized exchanges. Obviously, you know, we know about coinbase, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.039 and we've seen the ftx blow up out. So if 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.319 things are decent lized, if people can just trade in 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.680 a decentilized way, that that that's really good. Even bringing 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.280 stable coins to Bitcoin. Most of the stable coins like 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.560 tether and USDC right now they're issues around aterium and 0:01:55.600 --> 0:02:00.120 some other change and they're not really working on the 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.320 Bitcoin rails. And I think bringing several coins to bitcoin 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.640 building lending protocols. Again, we saw things like blog five 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.000 blow up, So if there were decent lized lending protocols 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.120 directly built on top of Bitcoin, I think people could 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.280 have really benefited from tact. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:20.800 When you think about the trade of bitcoin, it seems 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.320 like it's losing its mojo a little bit. Right When 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.600 we look at it year to date, we're not seeing 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.040 as much of the volatility that you usually see when 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.200 it comes to bitcoin. It's gone eight trading sessions as 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.960 of today without a one percent move. What does that 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.520 tell you? Are you concerned at all about bitcoin as 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.440 kind of an asset class. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:46.240 So this is my. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.639 Third beer market, right, and I think this is probably 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.080 the most pleasant bit market that I've been through. So 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.720 I consider as being a bear market, I think given 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.640 for a bear market, this is actually a pretty good 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.520 trading market to be in. Things are including that, and 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.280 I think I would be just looking forward to the 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.080 bigcoin hobbing, which is scheduled for April next year. I 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.280 think historically, again this is how the market has been working. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.079 No guarantee it will work like that in the future, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.040 but historically around the bigcoin hobbing is when you know 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.800 markets pick up, there's a lot more excitement, and because 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.919 it's just it's just the market dynamics, the supply of 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.160 bigcoin goes down even more, and I think I think 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.440 people get more interested in it. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.040 Well, what's interesting. What's interesting though, when it comes to 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.360 what markets are more interested in, is that we have 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.760 this really cool word search function on the terminal. If 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.280 you want to nerd out with me for a second, 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:33.600 I do. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.680 I don't know what you're talking about, and it looks great. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.720 Well, you can do DS go to document search, but 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.440 smarter people than me just write it up for me. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.040 So I don't even have to use the function, to 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.760 be honest. But one of the reports from this week 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:53.160 looks at how Barbie Mentions outbeat Bitcoin for mentions on 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.480 the terminal this week. So and that's the second week 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.200 in a row that that's happened, by the way, So 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.880 what does that tell you? Does bitcoin have a pr problem? 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.880 Do they need to become a Barbenheimer to get back 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:06.200 into the zeitgeist here? 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:08.040 Yeah? 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.400 So I think I'll go back to this four year 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.440 cycle theory. Right, So we see these spikes, the coin 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:15.920 basically does a ten x or so, right in terms 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.159 of number of view users. In the first cycle, we 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.760 went to like one million users, then ten and depending 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.000 on how you count, maybe the last one will get 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.880 included to Warner. So I think the interest goes down 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.880 as well. But this is a time for billers, right. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.400 So this is something I've seen over and over that 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.040 companies and developers who really believe in the technology, they 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.320 basically catch up on things during this bear market cycle. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:40.520 Right. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.600 So a lot of great products get built, a lot 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.640 of people were basically building for the next years. They 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.240 get their work done, and then the next wave of 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.120 interest comes. So I think you're definitely in a bear market. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:52.640 What are you seeing filter right now? 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.320 Yeah, So some of the things that I'm really excited 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.440 about is bigcoin L two's. If you look at Ethereum, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.320 something like a two hundred and fifty billion dollar market, 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.719 and it has a fifty to sixty billion dollar L 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.480 two markets. L twos are these layer twos that are 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.160 built on top of Atherium. They helped it scale, they 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.600 bring more users and applications to it, and for the 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.560 first time, I'm seeing more of that happening on bigcoin, 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:16.920 which is absolutely critical. 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:18.680 So you mentioned a SAX project. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.159 I'm a co creator of SAX is a bitcoin L 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.480 two that helps sort of like bring more applications or 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.720 being able to just do like cheap and fast bitcoin transfers. 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:29.360 They will happen on. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.440 The L twos and not on the L one, and 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.640 I think these are still maturing and more on the 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:34.280 bitcoin side. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.160 But some pretty pretty exciting stuff happened. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.840 Given that we're still in what you describe as a 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.200 bear market or you know what others described as a 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.880 crypto winter, are you seeing interest around the space? 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:46.400 Just cool? 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.200 I mean, Maddie brought this up about Barbie versus bitcoin, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.240 but are you having trouble finding employees? A couple of 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.720 years ago, what we were talking about was, hey, these 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:02.080 are all people leaving Wall Street to go where crypto firms. Yes. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.680 So I think the one interesting dynamic of what happens 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.160 during the bear market is bitcoin dominance actually goes out. 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.559 So some people who track the bigcoin dominance it's actually 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.000 at the highest right now, which just means the market 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.480 cap or bitcoin versus all the other assets. So in 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.440 some ways it actually becomes easier to hire for bigcoin 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.160 companies because people get more burnt by all the others assets, right, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.279 they might be riskier or you know, there might be 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.600 you know, alsos in theferious people behind those projects. Where 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.000 bitcoin is this neutral, truly decentralized grassroots movement, and people 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.080 gravitate towards that a little bit more. This is within 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.240 the industry, but broadly speaking, yes, I think it's not 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.839 the it's not the crazy times. But sometimes it's also 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.440 a really good filter because now you're not getting the mercenaries, 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.320 You're actually getting more mission driven people, people who actually 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.160 believe in decentralization, who believe that building these asset systems 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:53.160 is actually a good thing. 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.720 So I've always enjoyed the bear market. It's I think 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.680 the signal to noise where it should actually IMPROVESE a lot. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:01.040 There's a lot more signal in the market and softer 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:01.880 as they go away. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.920 I think they're going to AI these days, and that's 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:05.600 the word. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.120 This is that signal or noise in AI, though. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.440 I think I think as as a computer scientist, I'm 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.480 definitely interested in a lot of the breakthroughs that have 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.320 happened recently. I wasn't a believer like five years ago, 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.000 but I've seen some some some really good stuff come out. 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.960 But again, it's like the overhyping of something and people 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.040 just jumping on the bandwag and stuff that we need 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:26.640 to be a little. 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:26.960 Bit careful of. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.360 Hey, what's it going to take Menie to get crypto 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:32.800 out of this winter. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.440 I think I am a firm believer in bitcoin. First, 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.360 I think the rest of the industry is sort of 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.360 like attached to it. Bitcoin has a clear product market fit. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.880 I mean, we're seeing the turbulence in the financial markets. 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.080 We're seeing inflation just go. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:49.840 Through the roof throughout the world. Like I think, it's 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.960 not not not just in the United States. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.600 Like I have my parents who live in Pakistan, and 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.200 whenever I send dollars to them, a dollar is worth 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.800 like three x more just in the last two years 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:01.560 then what it used to do. So people are feeling 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.440 the pain, they're feeling inflation, and they're realizing what a 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.520 hard asset means, what you know, a goldbacked currency couild 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.160 have meant. And I think bitcoin is sort of like 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.960 the best best thing out there. And what happens is 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.080 whenever interesting bitcoin goes up, then there is a long 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.360 tale of everything else that sort of like picks up 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:18.560 on it. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:19.120 Right. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.800 So I feel like if you believe in bitcoin, if 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.400 you think the world needs a better money, and bitcoin 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.200 is the best money invented so far, and it's it's 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.320 almost like an open source thing, right, There's a technology 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.440 that's out of the box very hard to stop. So 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.040 I think when bitcoin rises, everything else is going to 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:35.599 advise with it. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:37.959 All Right, Well, we're going to have to leave it 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:39.880 there on this Friday. I mean, thank you so much 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.400 for joining us. We need all the co founder and 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.719 chief executive officer of Trust Machines. I should mention you're 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.200 also the co founder of Stacks coming on to talk 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.600 crypto with us for our weekly crypto segment. 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.560 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:00.600 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen Bloomberg 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.040 dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.040 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.480 That Job's report, We've been talking about it all day, Tim, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.080 because you know I have a little something for everyone. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:12.360 Right. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.040 You've got the job growth remaining steady, non form payrolls 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.400 climbing slightly less than forecast, potentially a victory for the 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.800 Fed there, but the bad news for them wages still 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:23.240 going up. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:24.960 Hey, that's good news for us. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.440 That's good news for us, Tim, and hopefully for our 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.360 listeners here. So joining us to discuss and kind of 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.240 suss out the top line takeaway here for us is 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.040 Julia Pollock. She's the chief economist of Zip Recruiter, and Julia, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.600 it's great to have you on again here. I'm trying 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.240 to figure out how to read the good and the 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.520 bad news of this report. So just in terms of 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.959 putting it into historical context for me, would you say 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.320 this is the first report we've gotten that puts US 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.120 back to pre pandemic levels and vibes. 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.280 Yeah, this is pretty much in line with a pre 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.360 pandemic rate of job growth. But I would say on 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.960 wage growth, I don't think this is all worrying news 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.880 for the Fed and on the inflation front, because the 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.320 work week has actually become shorter over the past year. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.960 Average weekly hours, average weekly earnings have only risen three 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.520 point five percent, even though average hourly earnings have risen 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.840 four point four percent, So that three point five percent 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.360 weekly wage growth is completely consistent with the FEDS two 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.000 percent inflation. And then the data we got earlier this 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:34.280 week on productivity also suggests that high wage growth is 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.640 sustainable because productivity is rising. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.960 Julia, we love talking to you because on zip recruiter 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.560 you have a great insight into the types of jobs 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.320 people are looking for and the types of jobs people 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.559 are applying for. Michael McKee, international Economics and Policy correspondent, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.079 was in here a little earlier and he was saying, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.920 there's a little bit of debate about Okay, people just 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.640 not hiring at the same rate that they were hiring 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.440 out earlier, or people just not wanting to work at 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.920 the same rate that they were wanting to work out earlier. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.240 What are you seeing on your platform, Well. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.160 Job seekers have come back, and we've seen job seeker 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.439 engagement on jobs rising sixty nine percent over the year. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.439 So it's not that workers are not available and not 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.760 ready to work. Although many employers say that while they 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.000 can find entry level workers quite easily, they're struggling to 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.800 find people with specific credentials and qualifications. And they're also 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.000 struggling to find people with five to ten or ten 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.440 to fifteen years of experience. So quality is still a tricky, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:32.160 tricky issue. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:32.839 For why is that? 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.600 It's hard to know? One issue is that many older 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.120 workers left during the pandemic and they have not returned, 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.640 and they've taken a huge amount of skill and knowledge 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.360 with them. Many industries are also finding that the talent 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.640 pipeline has sort of run dry. Fewer workers are majoring, say, 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:57.960 in accounting. It's just not such an exciting, appealing career 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.240 anymore for young people who would rather be in tech 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.599 or in social media or blogging or goodness knows what. 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:12.160 So exactly right, wellies, And it's so interesting. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.680 I want to pick up on that because we were 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.000 talking with Mike McKee, as Tim said about how the 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:20.040 biggest job loss category in this print was in management. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:21.760 We're starting to see, at least in the data, that 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.720 companies are kind of hoarding that lower skilled, cheaper, more 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:30.000 affordable labor and getting rid of their higher level employees 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.920 that cost them a little bit more. So help me 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:38.040 understand where you're seeing that you're seeing less people with 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.480 more skills out there available to be employed. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.400 Yeah, so it's a challenging situation for employers. We're also 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:51.360 seeing employers move away from their sort of excessive reliance 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.680 during the pandemic on contract workers and temporary help agency staff, 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.439 and they're shifting from those temporary recruitment strategies is like 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:07.120 signing bonuses to more long term workforce management policies. We're 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.679 seeing a large increase in the share of job hostings 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.040 on zip recruiter that offer health insurance and that offer 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.079 retirement plans, and that's a good sign to me. It 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.839 suggests that employers are actually hiring in house staff and 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.120 trying to find ways not just to get them in 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.240 the door, but to keep them there and keep them happy. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.679 What about getting employees to the office. We've spoken to 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.560 you several times over the past few years, Trulia about 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.720 listings that show hybrid work or remote work. There's been 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.400 a lot of discussion, at least here in New York 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.959 City about getting workers back to the office, and also 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.959 from companies such as Amazon and more tech companies like 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.640 Apple as well. What are you seeing on the platform? 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.679 So remote listings have mostly plateaued in most industries, although 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.760 there are several industries where they have declined recently, like 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.400 in customer service. There are some where they continue to rise, 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.559 like in consulting financial services. So it really is a mix, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.880 and companies are carefully weighing the trade offs the cost savings, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.439 the recruitment benefits, the retension benefits. Some studies show a 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.360 decline and attrition of thirty five percent, which dramatically lowers 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.920 your turnover costs. So there are huge benefits from remote work, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.360 but one needs to do it right so that one 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.600 doesn't lose mentorship and collaboration. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.880 Well, we know that remote work is one of the 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.800 things contributing to that attrition and people switching jobs. I'm 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.880 curious about pay when it comes to switching jobs, because 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.560 we know from the ADP report earlier this week that 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.160 you do stand to gain on the wage front when 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.280 you switch jobs. You're getting about a ten percent increase 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.880 in wages as opposed to six percent when you stay 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.520 in the job that you currently have. What are you 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.320 seeing on your platform when it comes to the ability 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.120 for workers to get higher salaries if they are kind 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:54.240 of job hopping around. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.960 So the majority of job switches is still getting pretty 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.440 substantial wage increases, but the share who are increasing their 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.640 wages when they switch is actually going down. Part of 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.680 that is a matter of choice. So workers are prepared 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.880 to give up pay in order to get remote work. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.800 They're prepared to give up about eight to ten percent 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.720 of their pay because remote work saves you time and money. 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.520 That's a lot to give up for remote work. 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.640 You have to think about what We'll go ahead, Julia. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.960 Yeah, but if you gained seventy minutes a day that 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.400 you would have spent commuting, and if you save five 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.920 thousand dollars a year on transportation costs, it can really 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:33.440 make up for it. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.480 And then seventeen minutes a day, Yeah. 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.360 You have children and you spend a lot of time 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.000 in the car, and you have to pay for child's care, 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.920 you know, for that during that commute, and you sit 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.640 there in the car feeling like, how on Earth am 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.720 I doing this? Wasting my life when I could be 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.800 with my kids and I'm paying for child care on 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.480 top of it. Those kinds of savings are not just 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.480 financial savings, but they're psychic cost savings as well. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.000 I feel like I'm getting triggered here by you saying 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.800 those things, But it's true. I mean I spend I 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:06.080 spend about forty five minutes round trip commuting from my apartment. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.520 Wait, but ten say the thing you said earlier about 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.440 productivity and the return to work. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.960 This is interesting, Julia. We have a story out on 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.640 the Bloomberg about a study that economists at MIT and 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.280 UCLA did that shows that people are less productive at 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.040 home by about eighteen percent. These are new hires, and 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.360 they did experiment new hires in India, but they did 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.440 talk to somebody for the article who said, you know what, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.920 these people might be less productive if they're at home, 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.240 but the company may save money on real estate. So 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.120 if the company's not spending the money on real estate, 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.080 it's okay to have these lower productivity workers. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.960 So the real estate savings are actually a small piece 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.960 of the pie because in most companies, in most companies 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.360 today in the United States, in knowledge industries, your biggest 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:55.120 cost is your people. And when you can recruit people 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.880 across the country from lower cost places, you can get 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.720 talent much more tea. And then if they're prepared to 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.760 do the job and stay there for longer without big 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.119 wage increases because they're so happy and they enjoy the 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.760 work life balance that they've got, you you can save 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.840 and have reduced wage growth pressure as well. So there 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.520 are lots of reasons to sort of balance the productivity 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.560 and cost savings benefits. Then the evidence on productivity is mixed. 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.320 There are plenty of studies that show productivity gains, like 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.920 studies of customer support agents that found that they gained 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.920 an additional day a week of productivity because they made 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.040 many more calls during times when they would otherwise have 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:33.560 been commuting. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.040 Julia ten seconds here. What type of employee is having 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.280 the easiest time finding work right now? 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.240 Healthcare the industry is on a tear. It's gained enormous 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:46.800 numps of jobs for eighteen straight months. 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.720 Now, well, we got a great story on healthcare coming 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.399 up a little later today with John Tazzi during the 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.560 five o'clock hour. It's about the changing relationships that employers 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.440 have with the health insurance that they're paying so much 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.840 money to ensure their workers. Julia Pollock really appreciate you 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.720 taking the time, chief economist at Zipper Corder Recruiter, joining 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.160 us on the July Jobs Reporting All things employment. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.439 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.520 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.000 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.200 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.440 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.119 There's a little something for everyone in the jobs data today. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.280 But we think so much tim when we get the 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.520 job's data about how the Fed's going to respond, which 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.960 can make the good news seem like bad news. Right, 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.200 more jobs in pay means the FED raises rates, but 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.640 of course that's bad news for anyone looking to buy 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.560 a home. But then we think, okay, less jobs, the 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.240 FED may cool off, but then there are fewer jobs. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.360 You got to remember that that's bad news for people too. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.680 So we wanted to focus today on the people impacted 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.880 by these numbers and the data that we talk about 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.600 so often. So right now we're specifically going to focus 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.040 on the Hispanic population when it comes to that data, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.240 and we've got a great guests here to discuss, Javier 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.600 Palomar as the president and CEO of the US Hispanic 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.000 Business Council. On Javier, great to have you. Thank you 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.760 so much for coming on with us. When you look 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.359 at the data from today, we're seeing that for black workers, 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.440 the labor force participation rate did tick slightly higher, and 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.119 the same was true for the unemployment rate when it 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.840 comes to Hispanic workers as well. But I'm curious, what 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.600 was your biggest takeaway from the data today. 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.960 Well, I mean, if you look at the numbers, you know, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.879 let me begin by saying first of all that I 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.600 want to thank you for having American small business's voice 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.520 on this. The United States Hispanic Business Council is a 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.560 leading advocate for our nation's four point five million Hispanic 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.040