WEBVTT - Chances Are High That Bullish Cycle Extends: Authers 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.320 Welcome to the Bloomberg PENL podcast. I'm Paul swing you 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.760 along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.399 bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.640 and your money, whether at the grocery store or the 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.960 trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.040 or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.919 Bloomberg dot com. Jonathan Farroh speaking with Larry Cudlow, chief 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.680 economist to President Trump, on a wide ranging interview, talking 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:31.000 about jobs, but also talking about trade and the implications there. Uh, 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.239 and I want to really home in there on that. 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.440 And we have our own car Acadana still with us 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.840 listening to the interview alongside US chief US economist for 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.080 Bloomberg Economics. I just, real quick want to get your 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:47.120 reaction to Larry Cudlow's response on whether the US is 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.520 less incentivized to come to some sort of trade deal 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.960 with China based on the strength that we're seeing in 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.600 the U. S economy, especially since we're not necessarily seeing 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.360 commends or at strength in the Chinese economy. Well, I 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.400 think if we look back over the last two months 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:05.160 or so, we can see that the most progress in 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.319 trade talks occurred during periods where the market was down, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.319 the economic tone was negative. You know, there were questions about, 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.000 you know, how weak the U. S economy actually was. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.160 Certainly China continues to slow, so they have incentive to 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.920 come to the table. For the US when we've been 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.040 in periods of an upmarket and an up tone in 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.040 the data, Uh, the trade negotiations have been that much 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.399 more cantankerous. And Larry was very cautious, uh, not to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.679 provide any direction to things. And Jonathan is rightly asking, 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.319 we really have two levels in the trade talks. One was, uh, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.640 do we pick up where we were in October when 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.959 the tariffs were due to go up to or uh, 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.160 is October just ancient history. In the next step, if 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.160 things deteriorate, would be the December fifteen tariffs, which are 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.080 on about a hundred and fifty six billion of products, 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.440 many which are consumer goods and things of that nature. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.200 And Larry really didn't and to provide guidance in that 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.560 direction at all, and instead only talked about the potential 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.680 for a phase one deal just to put some numbers 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:12.200 around that. Very briefly, if we add dusted off October 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.480 UH and pending December tariffs together that price tag is 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:21.080 greater than everything put in place in So we're not 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.120 talking peanuts here. This is a very consequential levers that 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.200 are are looming potentially very close UH in the near 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.519 term UH that could dramatically impact economic outlook. December fift 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.720 that's a key date. Carl Wicked Donna, thanks so much 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.120 for sticking around with this. Carl's the chief US economists 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.200 for Bloomberg Economics. Let's shift gears a little bit talk 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.000 about the global markets, including the energy markets. Big meeting 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:49.120 just is wrapping up with OPEC in Vienna. Jason Shanker, 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.120 President Prestige Economics. He's also the chair of the Futurist 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.160 Institute and a Bloomberg Opinion contributor. UH. He is in 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.200 Vienna for the OPEC meetings and also joining us here 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.919 in our Bloomberg in Active Broker Studios is John Author's 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.480 and your editor for a Bloomberg Market. So, Jason, let's 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.880 start with you give us your key takeaway from the 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.720 OPEC meetings in Vienna this week. Well, I think there's 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.480 a couple of things. First, is that the group is 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.560 concerned about global growth they're concerned that oil inventories could 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.520 weigh on prices, as we saw the last time there 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.760 was a Chinese manufacturing recession, which happened between the the 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.280 December in middle I think that's a real concern. They're 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.640 looking at the macro, they're trying to come up with 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.720 a price bullish story and keep the inventories under control. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.000 And I'd say there's extra pressure coming from Saudi Arabia 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.360 as they're running up to an I p O. So 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.320 just wondering whether you think these cuts that are going 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.400 to be implemented are going to make a significant impact 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.280 in pricing. In other words, should we expect oil prices 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.800 to rise? Well, other commodities probably give us a hint 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.040 as to what we might expect. In the last few months, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.840 copper and alumin have been kind of grad Julie rising 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.600 oil prices could rise a little bit in the first 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.880 half of the year because of the summer driving season. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.960 Right this we look at the jobs number today, the 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.800 summer driving season in the United States was the big 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.159 driver of global oil prices. Are gonna be the biggest 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:20.080 driving season in history. People have jobs, people have money. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.440 The refineries ramp up in Q one Q two, so 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.120 oil prices could see a little bit of upside almost 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.640 regardless of what O Peck does today. At the beginning 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.480 of Jason, I'm glad you brought that up in John, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.920 I want you to come in here. John, author's about 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.039 the demand side of the picture. How we are seeing 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.479 optimism grow heading into that we're going to see a 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.040 re acceleration of sorts. I'll be a little bit more 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.320 tempered than in the past of the global economy. Do 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.400 you think that the data supports that shift in view? Yes, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.840 it does support the idea of another reacceleeration after another 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.560 midcycle slow down or whatever you want. School that we 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:03.279 had one of those u in fifteen sixteen, which at 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.880 that point was the optics certainly were focused on on China. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.599 It looks as though we're having another one now, which 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.560 we might in time come to blame on Germany and 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:17.480 the Eurozone. Certainly, German auto manufacturing is in a horrible 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.120 states by its own by its own, by its own standards. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.120 If you take a look at the latest IM data 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.880 from the beginning of the week, you do see the beginning, 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.360 you know, a nascent restocking boom. New orders got cut back, 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.599 a lot I suspect in large part forget about other 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.440 aspects of demand. But this was another effect of the 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.680 trade war. And the perverse effect is that we're now 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.599 eighteen months on from people putting their new orders on 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.599 hold because they were nervous about the trade war, and 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.240 they've really got to buy something. And the inventories have 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.920 been winding down during the process, so that the chances 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:04.240 of a re acceleration and another move upwards are quite high. 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.280 Whether that means and therefore an extension for a bit 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.920 of the longest cycle we're in. Whether I'm happily going 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.680 to tell you that we're about to go off on 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:18.240 another major, major rally is another question. And you can 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.279 also make the loaded comparisons to Night, which is another 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.600 time when the Fed cut rates, when the economy didn't 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.480 look so bad um and the economy did do very 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.240 well for a year or so after that. The market 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.279 didn't unbelievably well for a year or so after that. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.479 But we know what's happened next. Jason, want to go 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.920 back to you real quickly. There's something news out this morning. 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.680 The Saudia Minister thinks that the Saudi Aramco I p 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.440 O or that company will eventually in perhaps and in 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.800 your term trade above that to trillion dollar market was 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.240 priced earlier this week at one point seven trillion. What's 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.719 the latest talk in Vienna about the Saudi Aramco deal 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:58.359 was considered a strong success. Well, I'm not an equity analyst, 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.039 but I would say that, you know, it's something that's 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.480 hanging and looming large over the meeting because obviously the 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.719 Saudis would like to sacrifice maybe have the group sacrifice 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.880 a little bit of income, uh to prioritize balance sheet 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.680 as they're looking to do the I p O I mean, yesterday, 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.880 there's a marathon set of meetings, no decision made. If 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.480 a bunch of n O C s were doing I 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.920 p O S in in the next year, you probably 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.320 would have gotten a deal pretty quickly. But that's kind 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:24.600 of where we're at. And as we look at the 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.320 year ahead, there are some risks because the p m 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.880 I s the Eurozone plus us I s M plus 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.960 scan Chinese manufacturing p m I that's been below a 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.160 hundred fifty, which would be the break even for that 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.400 sum for six consecutive months. And even though folks are 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.880 optimistic about the year ahead, and we've seen that number increase, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.280 it's still below one fifty, and the prospects of a 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.400 trade deal are still spotty. I mean, we've just heard 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.120 a long interview about that, and it's ended in tears 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.560 in the last two throughout the last two years, and 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.520 in this time it could very well end in tears 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.480 as well. Jason Schenker, thank you so much for joining us. 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.640 He is president of Prestige Economics, also a Bloomberg Opinion contributor, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.720 joining us from Vienna at the OPEC meetings. And John Authors, 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.800 thanks so much for being with us as well, Senior 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.640 editor for Bloomberg Markets, joining us here in our Bloomberg 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.400 Interactive Brokers studio. On a very busy morning lista with 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.480 a strong job's number, seeing a very strong reaction positive 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.120 just under one percent move in equity indices. Here on 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:38.840 the back of that news, let's talk a little Facebook here. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.160 There's a couple of things I want to get to 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.800 with our guest, Sure Overday, here's a technology columnist for 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.600 Bloomberg Opinion, joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Sure, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.840 thanks so much for coming. I want to talk about um, 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.280 you know, uh, maybe coming to New York and increasing 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:52.920 their presence here, which is very interesting. But I also 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.920 want to get to your column because it's one of 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.080 the greatest headlines I read today. Mark Zuckerberg isn't always 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.120 a colorless automaton. Got to get to that first, all right, 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.600 coming to New York, Big News going to rent a 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.160 whole bunch of space. What's going on there? So at 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.280 least the Wall Street Journal reported that Facebook is talking 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:14.840 about leasing a very large space here in the fairly 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.320 the former fairly post office building. Um. New Yorkers will 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.000 know this as the former and I guess future home 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:27.520 of New Jersey Transit and Amtrak. Yeah, hopefully. Um. But 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.320 this is a very large and sort of well known 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.600 building in New York City, and it's just speaks to 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.559 the expansion of large tech companies, notably Google and Facebook, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.480 into New York from their headquarters in the Bay Area. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.200 It raises a question. There was another story on the 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.520 Bloomberg talking about tech companies increasingly eyeing New York as 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.600 a as another option in addition to Silicon Valley. Why 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.320 why is New York becoming more of a hub or 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.040 is it for tech companies? So I think there's a 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.480 few things that play here. One of them is that 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.559 UM the large superstar tech companies you know, Facebook, Google, Amazon, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:12.080 going down the list, they have just grown and expanded 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.360 you know, revenue and employees both and as they've done so, 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.360 you know, they in some cases have reached the limits 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.400 of expansion in the Bay Area. Although if you go 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.319 to facebooks headquarters in Menlo Park, it basically looks like 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.760 a perennial construction zone. They have like armies of construction 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.120 workers building new buildings, so they're not done there yet. 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.720 I think also these companies realize that not everybody wants 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.480 to live in the Bay Area. Some people want to 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.480 live elsewhere. There's been, you know, an increasing push to 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.760 um letting people work remotely. So if you live in 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.880 Montana and you want to work for Facebook or Airbnb, 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.560 that's increasingly an option UM. And I think there's also 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.120 a phenomenon of tech companies looking for talent in other 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.560 hubs in the United States and elsewhere. So you've seen Seattle, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.160 for example, being um particularly fertile ground for a lot 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.959 of tech companies who want to associate themselves with people 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.240 coming out of Microsoft or Amazon or the Universe, University 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.280 of Washington or other places where there's high quality tech 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.400 talent in New York as part of that too. So sure, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.520 let's get to your column here. Um, we've seen a 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.520 lot of Markus Zuckerberg. The public has seen a lot 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.600 of Marcus Zuckerberg increasingly over the last couple of years, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.840 oftentimes testifying in front of Congress or others. What's your sense, 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:29.160 your takeaway about him as a spokesperson for the industry. Well, 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.520 I wanted to just point out that there's kind of 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.480 two different Mark Zuckerberg's. Right, there's the Mark Zuckerberg that 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.680 we see in media interviews or on occasions when he 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.120 gives speeches or testifies before Congress. And I think that 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:49.640 Mark Zuckerberg is a little bit uncomfortable when he's asked 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.240 to talk about issues that are broadly about, you know, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.240 the role of Internet in the world, and um, the 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:02.880 nature of human trust and economic development and and Facebook's 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.880 own role in all of those big picture questions. So 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.720 that's the one Mark Zuckerberg. The other Mark Zuckerberg that 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:14.599 you see less is in private settings or to employees, 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:19.320 where he's talking I think very confidently and capably about 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:26.760 strategy and Internet trends, and you know, knee camping competitors metaphorically. Um, 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.960 And I just wanted to point out that there is 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.199 this dichotomy that the Mark Zuckerberg that we often see 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.280 in public is not the same Mark Zuckerberg that people 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.520 know in more private settings. So do you think this 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.000 ought to give investors more confidence in the leadership and 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.480 the understanding that he brings to the company going forward 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.480 in some of the challenges that it faces. I think 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.199 that's right. I mean, look, I don't know. Maybe Mark 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.880 Zuckerberg does not need to prove himself anymore as a 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.360 capable product and business executive. Right the track record of 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.240 Facebook in the last ten years speaks fifteen years, I 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.480 guess since he founded it somewhat speaks for itself. Um. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.439 But I also point out that, look, the role of 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.880 being a CEO of a superstar tech company is probably 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.079 different than it was five or six years ago. And 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.800 that's not only true for Mark Zuckerberg, but all these 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.600 other companies. As technology and as the Internet play a 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.520 greater role in our lives, in our economies, in our countries, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:33.480 in our personal interactions, these people are understandably asked to 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.079 think bigger than just their companies, just their products, um 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.480 and business strategies, and really asked to think about the 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.319 role of the Internet in public life and the world. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.640 And those are really difficult questions and probably not what 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:53.000 Mark Zuckerberg anticipated when he started Facebook. Indeed, a lot 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.280 of people also probably a little blindsided by some of 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:01.280 the transformational natures of these technological advancements. And UH and 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.000 companies share over technology columnist with Bloomberg Opinion, joining us 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.800 here in our Interactive Broker Studios. Thank you so much 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:26.520 for for that. There are a lot of questions around 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.400 the marijuana industry, namely whether or not the US will 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.960 legalize it on a broad level. In the meantime, you 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.200 have states legalizing the product, which raises a question how 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.320 do you advertise it, especially since it is not legal 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.880 in so many places. Joining us here in our Interactive 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.280 Broker Studios Joshua Otten He has chief executive officer of Ronan, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.080 which is one of the largest branding agencies for cannabis 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.200 and health help businesses. So, josh we were just talking 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:59.040 about the perception of the industry and how do you 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.520 first of all, go about marketing a company that is 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.360 not operating in a universally legal field in the United States. Well, 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.400 that's a challenge, right. So when we launched rown in 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.520 about six months ago, our goal was to work with 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.480 emerging brands who are building products and commodities and helping 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:18.160 them to evolve into really real lifestyle and wellness brands 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.640 and so um, there's a lot of challenges on the 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.640 cannabis space, specifically because you're only selling in specific dispensaries 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.080 and local even in a state like California. You know 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.080 a lot of times you're only operating in Southern California 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.360 parts of southern California. So the challenges how do you 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.440 generate campaigns and advertising that generates an r o I immediately? 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.680 But a lot of times that's short sighted because the 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.480 reality is if you're building a brand that isn't just 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.720 a commodity, you can't just talk about ingredients or strains 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.120 or t H percentages. Those are just what's in it, right, 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:47.760 So you have to be able to build a brand 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.400 that can communicate the consumers. So it's really a lot 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.400 of content content marketing all the stuff that food and 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.880 beverage does. It's at a slightly smaller scale, but you 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:57.920 have to take those same steps. Do we have any 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.680 success cases in the busy in this right now, if 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.120 any brand's kind of broken through a little bit and 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.320 how did they do it? Absolutely, I think that if 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.600 you want to kind of categorize them into two different buckets, 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.880 if you want to look at say recreational or adult 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.720 use in lifestyle. Cookies is a great example. Uh, it 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.280 was founded by a rapper named Burner Up in Oakland. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.440 Cookies is a lifestyle cannabis brand. They have some really 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.240 great genetics, but really it comes down to content. And 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.280 the reason I think they're winning is because they're selling 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.120 tens of millions of dollars worth of merchandise and T 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.240 shirts and hats every year. And that's that's what is 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.000 a brand that's a red bull, right like people who 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.400 are creating a self identity around it. And then on 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.280 the wellness side, you can look at someone like a Doss. 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.880 They're creating these products that have activity groups. Hey, if 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.480 you take this, it will help you sleep. We're going 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.400 to consistently dose you. This will help you relax, this 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.400 will get you excited. So you kind of have these 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.880 two buckets activity group outcome and wellness and then lifestyle. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.320 So it's almost a kin to a red bull. You know, 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.360 they kind of allude to what it is. Red Bull, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.640 Monster Energy. You know, you don't really know what's in 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.360 those things, but will give you energy. And then there's 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.280 five Hour Energy. It tells you exactly what it's gonna do. 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.480 And so we I see the people that are taking 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.520 lanes and picking specific verticals are going to have success. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.120 I got this is this is sort of unprecedented because 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.679 even with alcohol, there are very few alcohol brands that 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.840 advertise getting drunk, right, There's there are very few advertising 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.960 brands that try to sell to that experience of the buzz. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.160 And yet you know, essentially you don't take marijuana, you don't, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.200 you don't, you don't smoke up to to just taste 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.399 the flavor, right, I mean it's to get high, So 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.240 you have to be advertising the high and has ever 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.400 been done before? I actually disagree, and I actually take 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.600 I actually look at the food and beverage, alcohol and 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.160 beer as the as the way we should go, because 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.320 alcohol doesn't talk about what their proof is, right. I Mean, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.359 you go to a tequila bar and there's a thousand 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.560 tequilas and they all have varying degrees of taste, but 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.280 you have your outcome. But you know, if you have 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.879 four shots, no matter what it is, you're gonna go 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.600 home a little loopy. Um. So my point is that 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.159 cannabis brands that are advertising how high they get you 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.920 or their t a chia percentages away from an educational 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.120 sandpoint because you want to know what you're consuming. UM, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.080 that's not gonna last in the market. That's not the 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.280 point necessarily. Um. Just like it, just like drinking wine isn't. 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.200 The point isn't to get loaded. You can if you 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.520 drink an entire bottle, you're you're gonna be wasted. You're 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.359 but one or two glasses and you're fine. So the 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.040 same thing. If you smoke half a joint or a 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.040 couple of hits, depending on what it is, it's going 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.760 to give you a nice equivalent, um, if you're looking 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.320 for a recreational outcome. So I guess my point is 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.800 I think that the cannas industry can learn a lot 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.119 from from alcohol and beer by not focusing on how 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.520 high it gets you and focusing on lifestyle. And because 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.680 because the end of day, it's a commodity, right, wine 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:35.720 is wine. Wine is a commodity, it's grapes. What makes 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.480 it not a commodity is when you bottle it, put 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.200 in a really nice bottle and start marketing it. Otherwise 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.560 it's more low or whatever whatever variety it is. So 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.040 it's I'm wondering how you would advertise or market or 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.280 promote your brand because but there's a story out just 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.159 I think today High Times holdings High Times magazines warning 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.440 investors that they may not be able to continue operations 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.200 after they didn't get their I p O off. So 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.440 if I can't, the first thing and the only thing 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.000 that aim to my mind, if I was marketing uh 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.080 a cannabis brand, would be High Times magazine, how what 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.520 I do it? So we were actually launching a network. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.960 So so we have about a hundred part part of 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.240 our agency engine is that we have a hundred fifty 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.680 hours of original content that I've produced over the last 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.120 three years that has launched. We even have a partnership 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.720 with Viacom in Pluto TV, so they have a t 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.119 C channel. So we have any five or six million 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.880 minutes watched a month, just owned Viacom and distributed about 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.760 fifty million homes. And we're now launching another network that's 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.919 gonna long in January that's going to be in another 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.840 another forty million homes with about a thousand hours. So 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.280 our purview is high times has a very specific audience, right, 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.840 they have in what I call the endemic consumer. These 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.720 are people who are fans. The product is part of 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.919 their self identity. It's not just a product they consume. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.639 I'm looking for the wider audience. What's the political risk 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.960 of putting this industry in the limelight? I mean, because 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.280 on one hand, you know, if if it sort of 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.680 is within the community that's already devoted to the industry, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.399 it's one thing. If it's another if it's trying to 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.080 cater to the mat passes. Are you worried about blowback? 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.760 The more visible you make some of these companies um 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.159 personally you know, again not to sound like Gazella, but 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:08.600 you know, when you look at it, you compare it 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.160 to food and alcohol. I'm not food, alcohol, and and 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.280 and and even tobacco. There are no positive outcomes from 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.919 consuming alcohol, right, I mean, no one's deluding themselves and 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.159 thinking that, you know, having beer and alcoholis has some 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.480 positive health benefit. Red wine, yeah, but that it's like right, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.199 it comes out and then like two months later you 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.520 guys say it's not so who knows. But but that's 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.399 not the point. We're consenting adults, and so at the 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.800 end of the day, we're consuming a beverage that has 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.000 absolutely been proven to increase domestic violence, have drunk driving deaths, 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.520 all these terrible outcomes. But that's okay. We're consenting adults. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.840 We consume it. So if you want to compare cannabis 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.399 to you know again, alcohol and the industry, and we 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.919 realized we can't prohibit it just because it has a 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.680 lot of negative side effects, I would absolutely argue cannabis 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.560 has a tenth of those same you know, possible liabilities 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.200 while still allowing for consumers to you know again, consumer 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.240 safe product. The safety issues I'm sure you as I've 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:01.520 heard of it, right, you have all this sort of 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.520 like oh my god, the CDC came out and all 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.240 this you know what it was the black market, and 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.359 everyone inside the cannabis market knew it. And it was 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.800 frustrating because we knew that it was vitamini ascetate. We 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.280 knew that it was coming from illegal operators. And when 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.840 you have a market like California where two thirds of 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.600 it two three force is still illegal black market and 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.120