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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg PENL podcast. I'm Paul swing you

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Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you

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Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the

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Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. Jonathan Farroh speaking with Larry Cudlow, chief

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Speaker 1: economist to President Trump, on a wide ranging interview, talking

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Speaker 1: about jobs, but also talking about trade and the implications there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I want to really home in there on that.

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Speaker 1: And we have our own car Acadana still with us

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Speaker 1: listening to the interview alongside US chief US economist for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Economics. I just, real quick want to get your

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Speaker 1: reaction to Larry Cudlow's response on whether the US is

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Speaker 1: less incentivized to come to some sort of trade deal

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Speaker 1: with China based on the strength that we're seeing in

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Speaker 1: the U. S economy, especially since we're not necessarily seeing

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Speaker 1: commends or at strength in the Chinese economy. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think if we look back over the last two months

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Speaker 1: or so, we can see that the most progress in

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Speaker 1: trade talks occurred during periods where the market was down,

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Speaker 1: the economic tone was negative. You know, there were questions about,

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Speaker 1: you know, how weak the U. S economy actually was.

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Speaker 1: Certainly China continues to slow, so they have incentive to

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Speaker 1: come to the table. For the US when we've been

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Speaker 1: in periods of an upmarket and an up tone in

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Speaker 1: the data, Uh, the trade negotiations have been that much

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Speaker 1: more cantankerous. And Larry was very cautious, uh, not to

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Speaker 1: provide any direction to things. And Jonathan is rightly asking,

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Speaker 1: we really have two levels in the trade talks. One was, uh,

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Speaker 1: do we pick up where we were in October when

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Speaker 1: the tariffs were due to go up to or uh,

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Speaker 1: is October just ancient history. In the next step, if

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Speaker 1: things deteriorate, would be the December fifteen tariffs, which are

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Speaker 1: on about a hundred and fifty six billion of products,

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Speaker 1: many which are consumer goods and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: And Larry really didn't and to provide guidance in that

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Speaker 1: direction at all, and instead only talked about the potential

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Speaker 1: for a phase one deal just to put some numbers

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Speaker 1: around that. Very briefly, if we add dusted off October

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Speaker 1: UH and pending December tariffs together that price tag is

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Speaker 1: greater than everything put in place in So we're not

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Speaker 1: talking peanuts here. This is a very consequential levers that

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Speaker 1: are are looming potentially very close UH in the near

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Speaker 1: term UH that could dramatically impact economic outlook. December fift

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Speaker 1: that's a key date. Carl Wicked Donna, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for sticking around with this. Carl's the chief US economists

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Economics. Let's shift gears a little bit talk

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Speaker 1: about the global markets, including the energy markets. Big meeting

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Speaker 1: just is wrapping up with OPEC in Vienna. Jason Shanker,

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Speaker 1: President Prestige Economics. He's also the chair of the Futurist

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Speaker 1: Institute and a Bloomberg Opinion contributor. UH. He is in

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Speaker 1: Vienna for the OPEC meetings and also joining us here

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Speaker 1: in our Bloomberg in Active Broker Studios is John Author's

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Speaker 1: and your editor for a Bloomberg Market. So, Jason, let's

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Speaker 1: start with you give us your key takeaway from the

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Speaker 1: OPEC meetings in Vienna this week. Well, I think there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. First, is that the group is

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Speaker 1: concerned about global growth they're concerned that oil inventories could

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Speaker 1: weigh on prices, as we saw the last time there

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Speaker 1: was a Chinese manufacturing recession, which happened between the the

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Speaker 1: December in middle I think that's a real concern. They're

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Speaker 1: looking at the macro, they're trying to come up with

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Speaker 1: a price bullish story and keep the inventories under control.

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Speaker 1: And I'd say there's extra pressure coming from Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: as they're running up to an I p O. So

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Speaker 1: just wondering whether you think these cuts that are going

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Speaker 1: to be implemented are going to make a significant impact

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Speaker 1: in pricing. In other words, should we expect oil prices

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Speaker 1: to rise? Well, other commodities probably give us a hint

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Speaker 1: as to what we might expect. In the last few months,

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Speaker 1: copper and alumin have been kind of grad Julie rising

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Speaker 1: oil prices could rise a little bit in the first

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Speaker 1: half of the year because of the summer driving season.

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Speaker 1: Right this we look at the jobs number today, the

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Speaker 1: summer driving season in the United States was the big

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Speaker 1: driver of global oil prices. Are gonna be the biggest

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Speaker 1: driving season in history. People have jobs, people have money.

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Speaker 1: The refineries ramp up in Q one Q two, so

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Speaker 1: oil prices could see a little bit of upside almost

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Speaker 1: regardless of what O Peck does today. At the beginning

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Speaker 1: of Jason, I'm glad you brought that up in John,

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Speaker 1: I want you to come in here. John, author's about

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Speaker 1: the demand side of the picture. How we are seeing

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Speaker 1: optimism grow heading into that we're going to see a

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Speaker 1: re acceleration of sorts. I'll be a little bit more

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Speaker 1: tempered than in the past of the global economy. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that the data supports that shift in view? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it does support the idea of another reacceleeration after another

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Speaker 1: midcycle slow down or whatever you want. School that we

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Speaker 1: had one of those u in fifteen sixteen, which at

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Speaker 1: that point was the optics certainly were focused on on China.

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Speaker 1: It looks as though we're having another one now, which

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Speaker 1: we might in time come to blame on Germany and

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Speaker 1: the Eurozone. Certainly, German auto manufacturing is in a horrible

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Speaker 1: states by its own by its own, by its own standards.

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Speaker 1: If you take a look at the latest IM data

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of the week, you do see the beginning,

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Speaker 1: you know, a nascent restocking boom. New orders got cut back,

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Speaker 1: a lot I suspect in large part forget about other

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Speaker 1: aspects of demand. But this was another effect of the

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Speaker 1: trade war. And the perverse effect is that we're now

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Speaker 1: eighteen months on from people putting their new orders on

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Speaker 1: hold because they were nervous about the trade war, and

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Speaker 1: they've really got to buy something. And the inventories have

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Speaker 1: been winding down during the process, so that the chances

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Speaker 1: of a re acceleration and another move upwards are quite high.

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Speaker 1: Whether that means and therefore an extension for a bit

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Speaker 1: of the longest cycle we're in. Whether I'm happily going

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Speaker 1: to tell you that we're about to go off on

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Speaker 1: another major, major rally is another question. And you can

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Speaker 1: also make the loaded comparisons to Night, which is another

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Speaker 1: time when the Fed cut rates, when the economy didn't

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Speaker 1: look so bad um and the economy did do very

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Speaker 1: well for a year or so after that. The market

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Speaker 1: didn't unbelievably well for a year or so after that.

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Speaker 1: But we know what's happened next. Jason, want to go

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Speaker 1: back to you real quickly. There's something news out this morning.

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Speaker 1: The Saudia Minister thinks that the Saudi Aramco I p

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Speaker 1: O or that company will eventually in perhaps and in

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Speaker 1: your term trade above that to trillion dollar market was

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Speaker 1: priced earlier this week at one point seven trillion. What's

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Speaker 1: the latest talk in Vienna about the Saudi Aramco deal

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Speaker 1: was considered a strong success. Well, I'm not an equity analyst,

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Speaker 1: but I would say that, you know, it's something that's

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Speaker 1: hanging and looming large over the meeting because obviously the

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Speaker 1: Saudis would like to sacrifice maybe have the group sacrifice

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Speaker 1: a little bit of income, uh to prioritize balance sheet

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Speaker 1: as they're looking to do the I p O I mean, yesterday,

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Speaker 1: there's a marathon set of meetings, no decision made. If

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Speaker 1: a bunch of n O C s were doing I

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Speaker 1: p O S in in the next year, you probably

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Speaker 1: would have gotten a deal pretty quickly. But that's kind

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Speaker 1: of where we're at. And as we look at the

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Speaker 1: year ahead, there are some risks because the p m

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Speaker 1: I s the Eurozone plus us I s M plus

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Speaker 1: scan Chinese manufacturing p m I that's been below a

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Speaker 1: hundred fifty, which would be the break even for that

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Speaker 1: sum for six consecutive months. And even though folks are

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Speaker 1: optimistic about the year ahead, and we've seen that number increase,

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Speaker 1: it's still below one fifty, and the prospects of a

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Speaker 1: trade deal are still spotty. I mean, we've just heard

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Speaker 1: a long interview about that, and it's ended in tears

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Speaker 1: in the last two throughout the last two years, and

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Speaker 1: in this time it could very well end in tears

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Speaker 1: as well. Jason Schenker, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: He is president of Prestige Economics, also a Bloomberg Opinion contributor,

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Speaker 1: joining us from Vienna at the OPEC meetings. And John Authors,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us as well, Senior

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Speaker 1: editor for Bloomberg Markets, joining us here in our Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Interactive Brokers studio. On a very busy morning lista with

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Speaker 1: a strong job's number, seeing a very strong reaction positive

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Speaker 1: just under one percent move in equity indices. Here on

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Speaker 1: the back of that news, let's talk a little Facebook here.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of things I want to get to

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Speaker 1: with our guest, Sure Overday, here's a technology columnist for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion, joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Sure,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming. I want to talk about um,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, maybe coming to New York and increasing

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Speaker 1: their presence here, which is very interesting. But I also

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Speaker 1: want to get to your column because it's one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest headlines I read today. Mark Zuckerberg isn't always

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Speaker 1: a colorless automaton. Got to get to that first, all right,

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Speaker 1: coming to New York, Big News going to rent a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of space. What's going on there? So at

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Speaker 1: least the Wall Street Journal reported that Facebook is talking

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Speaker 1: about leasing a very large space here in the fairly

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Speaker 1: the former fairly post office building. Um. New Yorkers will

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Speaker 1: know this as the former and I guess future home

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Speaker 1: of New Jersey Transit and Amtrak. Yeah, hopefully. Um. But

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Speaker 1: this is a very large and sort of well known

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Speaker 1: building in New York City, and it's just speaks to

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Speaker 1: the expansion of large tech companies, notably Google and Facebook,

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Speaker 1: into New York from their headquarters in the Bay Area.

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Speaker 1: It raises a question. There was another story on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg talking about tech companies increasingly eyeing New York as

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Speaker 1: a as another option in addition to Silicon Valley. Why

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Speaker 1: why is New York becoming more of a hub or

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Speaker 1: is it for tech companies? So I think there's a

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Speaker 1: few things that play here. One of them is that

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Speaker 1: UM the large superstar tech companies you know, Facebook, Google, Amazon,

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Speaker 1: going down the list, they have just grown and expanded

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Speaker 1: you know, revenue and employees both and as they've done so,

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Speaker 1: you know, they in some cases have reached the limits

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Speaker 1: of expansion in the Bay Area. Although if you go

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Speaker 1: to facebooks headquarters in Menlo Park, it basically looks like

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Speaker 1: a perennial construction zone. They have like armies of construction

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Speaker 1: workers building new buildings, so they're not done there yet.

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Speaker 1: I think also these companies realize that not everybody wants

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Speaker 1: to live in the Bay Area. Some people want to

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Speaker 1: live elsewhere. There's been, you know, an increasing push to

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Speaker 1: um letting people work remotely. So if you live in

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Speaker 1: Montana and you want to work for Facebook or Airbnb,

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Speaker 1: that's increasingly an option UM. And I think there's also

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Speaker 1: a phenomenon of tech companies looking for talent in other

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Speaker 1: hubs in the United States and elsewhere. So you've seen Seattle,

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Speaker 1: for example, being um particularly fertile ground for a lot

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Speaker 1: of tech companies who want to associate themselves with people

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Speaker 1: coming out of Microsoft or Amazon or the Universe, University

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Speaker 1: of Washington or other places where there's high quality tech

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Speaker 1: talent in New York as part of that too. So sure,

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Speaker 1: let's get to your column here. Um, we've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of Markus Zuckerberg. The public has seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of Marcus Zuckerberg increasingly over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes testifying in front of Congress or others. What's your sense,

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Speaker 1: your takeaway about him as a spokesperson for the industry. Well,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to just point out that there's kind of

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Speaker 1: two different Mark Zuckerberg's. Right, there's the Mark Zuckerberg that

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Speaker 1: we see in media interviews or on occasions when he

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Speaker 1: gives speeches or testifies before Congress. And I think that

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Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg is a little bit uncomfortable when he's asked

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Speaker 1: to talk about issues that are broadly about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the role of Internet in the world, and um, the

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Speaker 1: nature of human trust and economic development and and Facebook's

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Speaker 1: own role in all of those big picture questions. So

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Speaker 1: that's the one Mark Zuckerberg. The other Mark Zuckerberg that

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Speaker 1: you see less is in private settings or to employees,

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Speaker 1: where he's talking I think very confidently and capably about

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Speaker 1: strategy and Internet trends, and you know, knee camping competitors metaphorically. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I just wanted to point out that there is

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Speaker 1: this dichotomy that the Mark Zuckerberg that we often see

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Speaker 1: know in more private settings. So do you think this

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Speaker 1: ought to give investors more confidence in the leadership and

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Speaker 1: the understanding that he brings to the company going forward

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Speaker 1: in some of the challenges that it faces. I think

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Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, look, I don't know. Maybe Mark

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Speaker 1: Zuckerberg does not need to prove himself anymore as a

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Speaker 1: capable product and business executive. Right the track record of

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Speaker 1: Facebook in the last ten years speaks fifteen years, I

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Speaker 1: guess since he founded it somewhat speaks for itself. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I also point out that, look, the role of

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Speaker 1: being a CEO of a superstar tech company is probably

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Speaker 1: different than it was five or six years ago. And

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Speaker 1: that's not only true for Mark Zuckerberg, but all these

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Speaker 1: other companies. As technology and as the Internet play a

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Speaker 1: greater role in our lives, in our economies, in our countries,

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Speaker 1: in our personal interactions, these people are understandably asked to

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Speaker 1: think bigger than just their companies, just their products, um

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Speaker 1: and business strategies, and really asked to think about the

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Speaker 1: role of the Internet in public life and the world.

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Speaker 1: And those are really difficult questions and probably not what

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Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg anticipated when he started Facebook. Indeed, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people also probably a little blindsided by some of

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Speaker 1: the transformational natures of these technological advancements. And UH and

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Speaker 1: companies share over technology columnist with Bloomberg Opinion, joining us

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Speaker 1: here in our Interactive Broker Studios. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for for that. There are a lot of questions around

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Speaker 1: the marijuana industry, namely whether or not the US will

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Speaker 1: legalize it on a broad level. In the meantime, you

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Speaker 1: have states legalizing the product, which raises a question how

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Speaker 1: do you advertise it, especially since it is not legal

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Speaker 1: in so many places. Joining us here in our Interactive

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Speaker 1: Broker Studios Joshua Otten He has chief executive officer of Ronan,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the largest branding agencies for cannabis

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Speaker 1: and health help businesses. So, josh we were just talking

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Speaker 1: about the perception of the industry and how do you

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Speaker 1: first of all, go about marketing a company that is

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Speaker 1: not operating in a universally legal field in the United States. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a challenge, right. So when we launched rown in

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Speaker 1: about six months ago, our goal was to work with

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Speaker 1: emerging brands who are building products and commodities and helping

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Speaker 1: them to evolve into really real lifestyle and wellness brands

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Speaker 1: and so um, there's a lot of challenges on the

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Speaker 1: cannabis space, specifically because you're only selling in specific dispensaries

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Speaker 1: and local even in a state like California. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of times you're only operating in Southern California

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Speaker 1: parts of southern California. So the challenges how do you

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Speaker 1: generate campaigns and advertising that generates an r o I immediately?

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Speaker 1: But a lot of times that's short sighted because the

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Speaker 1: reality is if you're building a brand that isn't just

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Speaker 1: a commodity, you can't just talk about ingredients or strains

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Speaker 1: or t H percentages. Those are just what's in it, right,

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Speaker 1: So you have to be able to build a brand

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Speaker 1: that can communicate the consumers. So it's really a lot

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Speaker 1: of content content marketing all the stuff that food and

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Speaker 1: beverage does. It's at a slightly smaller scale, but you

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Speaker 1: have to take those same steps. Do we have any

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Speaker 1: success cases in the busy in this right now, if

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Speaker 1: any brand's kind of broken through a little bit and

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Speaker 1: how did they do it? Absolutely, I think that if

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Speaker 1: you want to kind of categorize them into two different buckets,

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Speaker 1: if you want to look at say recreational or adult

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Speaker 1: use in lifestyle. Cookies is a great example. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: was founded by a rapper named Burner Up in Oakland.

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Speaker 1: Cookies is a lifestyle cannabis brand. They have some really

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Speaker 1: great genetics, but really it comes down to content. And

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Speaker 1: the reason I think they're winning is because they're selling

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Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars worth of merchandise and T

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Speaker 1: shirts and hats every year. And that's that's what is

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Speaker 1: a brand that's a red bull, right like people who

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Speaker 1: are creating a self identity around it. And then on

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Speaker 1: the wellness side, you can look at someone like a Doss.

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Speaker 1: They're creating these products that have activity groups. Hey, if

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Speaker 1: you take this, it will help you sleep. We're going

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Speaker 1: to consistently dose you. This will help you relax, this

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Speaker 1: will get you excited. So you kind of have these

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Speaker 1: two buckets activity group outcome and wellness and then lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: So it's almost a kin to a red bull. You know,

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Speaker 1: they kind of allude to what it is. Red Bull,

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Speaker 1: Monster Energy. You know, you don't really know what's in

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Speaker 1: those things, but will give you energy. And then there's

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Speaker 1: five Hour Energy. It tells you exactly what it's gonna do.

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Speaker 1: And so we I see the people that are taking

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Speaker 1: lanes and picking specific verticals are going to have success.

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Speaker 1: I got this is this is sort of unprecedented because

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Speaker 1: even with alcohol, there are very few alcohol brands that

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Speaker 1: advertise getting drunk, right, There's there are very few advertising

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Speaker 1: brands that try to sell to that experience of the buzz.

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Speaker 1: And yet you know, essentially you don't take marijuana, you don't,

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Speaker 1: you don't, you don't smoke up to to just taste

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Speaker 1: the flavor, right, I mean it's to get high, So

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Speaker 1: you have to be advertising the high and has ever

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Speaker 1: been done before? I actually disagree, and I actually take

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Speaker 1: I actually look at the food and beverage, alcohol and

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Speaker 1: beer as the as the way we should go, because

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Speaker 1: alcohol doesn't talk about what their proof is, right. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: you go to a tequila bar and there's a thousand

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Speaker 1: tequilas and they all have varying degrees of taste, but

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Speaker 1: you have your outcome. But you know, if you have

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Speaker 1: four shots, no matter what it is, you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: home a little loopy. Um. So my point is that

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Speaker 1: cannabis brands that are advertising how high they get you

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Speaker 1: or their t a chia percentages away from an educational

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Speaker 1: sandpoint because you want to know what you're consuming. UM,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna last in the market. That's not the

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Speaker 1: point necessarily. Um. Just like it, just like drinking wine isn't.

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Speaker 1: The point isn't to get loaded. You can if you

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Speaker 1: drink an entire bottle, you're you're gonna be wasted. You're

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Speaker 1: but one or two glasses and you're fine. So the

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Speaker 1: same thing. If you smoke half a joint or a

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Speaker 1: couple of hits, depending on what it is, it's going

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Speaker 1: to give you a nice equivalent, um, if you're looking

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Speaker 1: for a recreational outcome. So I guess my point is

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Speaker 1: I think that the cannas industry can learn a lot

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Speaker 1: from from alcohol and beer by not focusing on how

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Speaker 1: high it gets you and focusing on lifestyle. And because

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Speaker 1: because the end of day, it's a commodity, right, wine

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Speaker 1: is wine. Wine is a commodity, it's grapes. What makes

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Speaker 1: it not a commodity is when you bottle it, put

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Speaker 1: in a really nice bottle and start marketing it. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: it's more low or whatever whatever variety it is. So

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Speaker 1: it's I'm wondering how you would advertise or market or

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Speaker 1: promote your brand because but there's a story out just

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Speaker 1: I think today High Times holdings High Times magazines warning

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Speaker 1: investors that they may not be able to continue operations

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Speaker 1: after they didn't get their I p O off. So

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Speaker 1: if I can't, the first thing and the only thing

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Speaker 1: that aim to my mind, if I was marketing uh

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Speaker 1: a cannabis brand, would be High Times magazine, how what

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Speaker 1: I do it? So we were actually launching a network.

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Speaker 1: So so we have about a hundred part part of

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Speaker 1: our agency engine is that we have a hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: hours of original content that I've produced over the last

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Speaker 1: three years that has launched. We even have a partnership

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Speaker 1: with Viacom in Pluto TV, so they have a t

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Speaker 1: C channel. So we have any five or six million

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Speaker 1: minutes watched a month, just owned Viacom and distributed about

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Speaker 1: fifty million homes. And we're now launching another network that's

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Speaker 1: gonna long in January that's going to be in another

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Speaker 1: another forty million homes with about a thousand hours. So

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Speaker 1: our purview is high times has a very specific audience, right,

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Speaker 1: they have in what I call the endemic consumer. These

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Speaker 1: are people who are fans. The product is part of

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Speaker 1: their self identity. It's not just a product they consume.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for the wider audience. What's the political risk

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Speaker 1: of putting this industry in the limelight? I mean, because

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Speaker 1: on one hand, you know, if if it sort of

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Speaker 1: is within the community that's already devoted to the industry,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing. If it's another if it's trying to

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Speaker 1: cater to the mat passes. Are you worried about blowback?

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Speaker 1: The more visible you make some of these companies um

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Speaker 1: personally you know, again not to sound like Gazella, but

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Speaker 1: you know, when you look at it, you compare it

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Speaker 1: to food and alcohol. I'm not food, alcohol, and and

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Speaker 1: and and even tobacco. There are no positive outcomes from

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Speaker 1: consuming alcohol, right, I mean, no one's deluding themselves and

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Speaker 1: thinking that, you know, having beer and alcoholis has some

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Speaker 1: positive health benefit. Red wine, yeah, but that it's like right,

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Speaker 1: it comes out and then like two months later you

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Speaker 1: guys say it's not so who knows. But but that's

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Speaker 1: not the point. We're consenting adults, and so at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, we're consuming a beverage that has

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Speaker 1: absolutely been proven to increase domestic violence, have drunk driving deaths,

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Speaker 1: all these terrible outcomes. But that's okay. We're consenting adults.

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Speaker 1: We consume it. So if you want to compare cannabis

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Speaker 1: to you know again, alcohol and the industry, and we

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Speaker 1: realized we can't prohibit it just because it has a

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Speaker 1: lot of negative side effects, I would absolutely argue cannabis

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Speaker 1: has a tenth of those same you know, possible liabilities

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Speaker 1: while still allowing for consumers to you know again, consumer

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Speaker 1: safe product. The safety issues I'm sure you as I've

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Speaker 1: heard of it, right, you have all this sort of

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Speaker 1: like oh my god, the CDC came out and all

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Speaker 1: this you know what it was the black market, and

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Speaker 1: everyone inside the cannabis market knew it. And it was

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Speaker 1: frustrating because we knew that it was vitamini ascetate. We

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Speaker 1: knew that it was coming from illegal operators. And when

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Speaker 1: you have a market like California where two thirds of

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Speaker 1: it two three force is still illegal black market and

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Speaker 1: you have three forces of the city in California, refusing

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Speaker 1: to allow dispensaries and even fighting to allow delivery. All

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Speaker 1: you're doing do You're not reducing consumption, reducing access? Josh Houghton,

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Speaker 1: really fascinating stuff. Thanks for joining us. Josh Outen, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Ronan based in Culver City, California, joining us

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Speaker 1: live here on our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio talking about

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Speaker 1: the cannabis industry. Cooper's out with a very interesting report yesterday.

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Speaker 1: They released an eighty four page safety reports seeking to

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Speaker 1: quantify the misconduct and deaths that occur on its system

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Speaker 1: and argue that its service is safer than alternatives. Let's

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Speaker 1: dig into that a little bit with Eric Newcomer. He's

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Speaker 1: a startup reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone.

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Speaker 1: So Eric tell us about this report. It's pretty interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So Uber decided to proactively release data on sexual assaults

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Speaker 1: and fatalities UH in its cars and basically found that,

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Speaker 1: you know, last year there were about three thousand sexual assaults,

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Speaker 1: which it defines in behavior ranging from you know, an

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Speaker 1: unwanted kiss to rape. And then on the fatality side,

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Speaker 1: found about fifty fatalities a year. So this is you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty unprecedented transparency for a company to sort of proactively, uh,

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Speaker 1: disclose some of the worst behavior on its platform. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to understand how to view this reports.

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Speaker 1: On one hand, yes, the transparency is a shift, particularly

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Speaker 1: for Uber, which has been accused of being lacking transparency

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Speaker 1: and has come under fire from UK regulators in particular. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so this would be a nice departure for them

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Speaker 1: on that. On the other hand, three thousands sexual assault claims,

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Speaker 1: more than fifty row deaths. How can we even frame

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Speaker 1: that in terms of is that worse or better than others?

430
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: Since this is not a normal report to put out. Yeah,

431
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: it's stunning. It's hard to process. I mean Uber tries

432
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, position in terms of one

433
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: point three billion trips that took place last year. But

434
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: I think it's going to take time for people to

435
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: compare this. You know, academics are clearly going to pour

436
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: over these numbers and compare them to what, you know,

437
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: subway systems disclosed. But on the side of sexual assaults,

438
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always been the case that victim advocates

439
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: have believed that cases were under reported, you know, college

440
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: colleges have generally sort of had for reporting, and you know,

441
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: when they put more pressure on students to report, you know,

442
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: those numbers have gone up in that that's been good.

443
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 1: So so in a lot of these cases, there's this

444
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: tension of wanting more reports because sexual assault is underreported,

445
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: while at the same time wanting to hold you know,

446
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: whether it's colleges or companies or government accountable when when

447
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: these numbers are troubling. So yeah, it's hard I think

448
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: so far to say, you know, where is three thousand.

449
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: We haven't seen lifts numbers, We don't have taxi numbers,

450
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: so so it's I think this is a starting data point.

451
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to track it over time. It's interesting

452
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: about the in the Bloomberg News report, they said here

453
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: about fifty people have died in uber collisions annually for

454
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: the past two years. That's a rate about half the

455
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: national average for automotive automotive fatalities, that's according to the company.

456
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: So that gives that dynamic a little bit of context

457
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: on the sexual assault eric is it. Did they have

458
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: a sense of you know, sexual assault on the part

459
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: of the driver versus on the part of the passenger

460
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: because I've heard, you know, bad stories about both scenarios. Yeah, so,

461
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's our actually pretty even. I think it's

462
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, slightly slightly more allegations against drivers, but but

463
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: overall it's it's very close to even. So both riders

464
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: and drivers, you know, are getting attacked by the other,

465
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's important to realize that. I

466
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: think we talk a lot about rider's safety, but you know,

467
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: drivers are inviting a stranger into their car as well.

468
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: It's an important thing to remember that they need to

469
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: be protected. Also, I'm looking right now, Uber shares down

470
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: two point one percent. Was this a mistake to put out?

471
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's it's tough. I think Uber committed

472
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: themselves to this. You know, they said more than a

473
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: year ago, I think that they were going to do this,

474
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: and then they realized how hard it was, you know,

475
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: and have have really sort of agonized over how to

476
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: disclose the data. So it's you know, we'll see over

477
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: the long term if if you know, they want to

478
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: turn around their reputation, you know, dark Houser show you

479
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: the CEO said, you know, transparency is you know, on

480
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: the path to trust basically, So it's a short term harm,

481
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: but and it draws negative attention to them. But I

482
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: think if they want to really be seen as good actor,

483
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: this is the type of disclosure that they need to

484
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: be making. Eric Newcomer, thank you so much for being

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00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: with us. Eric Newcomer is a startup reporter for Bloomberg

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00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: News talking about this report out of Uber. Thanks for

487
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can

488
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

489
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at

490
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa A. Bram Woit's I'm on Twitter

491
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: at Lisa Bramwoits one before the podcast. You can always

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00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio