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Speaker 1: Cool media.

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Speaker 2: This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, and

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Speaker 2: once again it does continue to be happening here as

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Speaker 2: a massive wave of police repression is levied against students

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Speaker 2: protesting the ongoing Palestinian genocide. Since it's been so busy

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Speaker 2: and hectic, I thought to end this week on a

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Speaker 2: bit of a lighter note. Last week I did an

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Speaker 2: episode on a new movie titled The People's Joker, an

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Speaker 2: unauthorized Batman parody through the lens of a surprisingly genuine

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Speaker 2: queer coming of age story by transgender filmmaker Vera Drew.

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Speaker 2: If you want to hear me geek out about that

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Speaker 2: movie and gay Batman stuff, you can listen to that

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Speaker 2: episode from last week. But this episode is going to

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Speaker 2: delve more into the diy nature of this movie, some

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes, and how you go from an idea

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Speaker 2: to a piece of wacky queer art playing in a

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Speaker 2: movie theater or a TV show on your local cable

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Speaker 2: access TV station. So I talked to two trans women

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Speaker 2: who are currently making independent queer media. The aforementioned Vera Drew,

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Speaker 2: as well as Ella Yeerman, host of the late night

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Speaker 2: comedy show Late Stage Live. Transgender and a comedian, the

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Speaker 2: two most persecuted classes. So I've been keeping up with

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Speaker 2: Ella's indie transgender gen Z comedy project since it first

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Speaker 2: got announced earlier this year. I have kind of a

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Speaker 2: love hate relationship with the late night comedy news format,

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Speaker 2: and I myself have thrown around the idea of playing

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Speaker 2: with that format. So when I first heard about Ella's

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Speaker 2: new show, Late Stage Live, my first thought was, damn it.

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Speaker 2: That's such a good title for a show, and now

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Speaker 2: I can't use it. Just this immense sense of jealousy

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Speaker 2: washed over me, and I've had to watch everything She's

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Speaker 2: put out since then.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm Ella Yeerman. My pronouns are she Her. I am

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Speaker 3: a comedian, journalist, writer living in Brooklyn. I host Late

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Speaker 3: Stage Live, which is a queer gen Z public access

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Speaker 3: late night show on Brooklyn Public Access and YouTube. And

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Speaker 3: I also host T for T Comedy, which is Brooklyn's

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Speaker 3: premiere all trans stand.

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Speaker 4: Up comedy show. We film in a Brooklyn.

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Speaker 3: Public Access studio called brick Bric in front of a

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Speaker 3: live studio audience, and the vaguest pitch I give to

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Speaker 3: people who have no idea what the show is is

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Speaker 3: that it's what if the Daily Show was hosted by

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Speaker 3: a transgender woman, and we draw a lot of comparisons

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Speaker 3: to The Daily Show by virtue of sort of similar formats.

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Speaker 3: But myself and my writers are really interested in sort of,

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Speaker 3: for lack of a better term, queering the late night

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Speaker 3: format and sort of exploring what late night can do

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Speaker 3: for a younger, more radical political audience. The Daily Show

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Speaker 3: was like a really big radicalizing force, I think for

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Speaker 3: a certain generation of people. Really, John Stewart took that

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Speaker 3: show and turned it into a really powerful tool for

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Speaker 3: getting people engaged and aware of things that they might

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Speaker 3: not have otherwise been aware of. But the culture has

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Speaker 3: really shifted in terms of politics, in terms of media

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Speaker 3: consumption since John started The Daily Show in the nineties.

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Speaker 3: We have shows like Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

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Speaker 3: We have shows like My Coworkers and Bosses at some

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Speaker 3: More News and when we have like all of the

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Speaker 3: alternative media sphere ranging from like Tucker Carlson and Alex

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Speaker 3: Jones to the Young Turks to everybody and their mom

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Speaker 3: on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Now, kids these days don't really watch the news. I

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Speaker 2: don't know anyone my age who's tuning into MSNBC A

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two statistica survey of gen Z reported sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of respondents never go to local or national papers

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Speaker 2: for news, and only a respect of five percent checked

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Speaker 2: their local or national papers for news daily, weekly, or

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Speaker 2: once a month, but fifty percent of gen Z check

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Speaker 2: social media daily for news, with seventy five percent reporting

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Speaker 2: they check at least once a week. TikTok reigns supreme

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Speaker 2: for information dissemination. Over one third of adults under the

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Speaker 2: age of thirty regularly scroll the app for news, often

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Speaker 2: treating it like a search engine, with the rest of

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Speaker 2: the youths and young adults going to YouTube as well

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Speaker 2: as other social media apps to fill in the information gaps,

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Speaker 2: as well as podcasts such as this.

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Speaker 3: My writers and I especially read Pope. My headwriter and

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Speaker 3: I talk a lot about just like where our generation

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Speaker 3: is getting its information from and where it's consuming media,

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Speaker 3: and how ideas and political ideas are being disseminated, especially

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Speaker 3: in the age of short form content. With TikTok and

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Speaker 3: the democratization of information. We did a whole episode about

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Speaker 3: sort of misinformation and the democratization of information a few

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Speaker 3: months ago, where there's like, obviously all of these benefits

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Speaker 3: to the lack of centralization of media consumption. We're seeing

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Speaker 3: a lot of that with the Palasine stuff right now.

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Speaker 3: People don't have to rely on the New York Times,

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Speaker 3: people don't have to rely on these big media institutions

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Speaker 3: with their obvious biases to get information. But it also

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Speaker 3: sort of engenders this, I think, this very specific attitude

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Speaker 3: towards intellectually engaging with information. The platforms and the systems

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Speaker 3: that we use really encourage very quick opinions and fast

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Speaker 3: reactions and picking up your phone and talking immediately about

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Speaker 3: something as quickly as possible hot take political environments, and

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Speaker 3: we were really interested in looking at a format that

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Speaker 3: has historically been more about a team of people with

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Speaker 3: multiple perspectives coming together to create one piece of analysis

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Speaker 3: and taking longer to look at those pieces of analysis

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Speaker 3: and being able to really dig into data. And then

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Speaker 3: what putting that into a late night format means. We

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Speaker 3: have a live audience, which a lot of like stuff

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Speaker 3: on YouTube doesn't have, and we have a lot of

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Speaker 3: the trappings of like og late night. We have like sketches,

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Speaker 3: and we have correspondents, and we have a theme song,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of that has sort of gone away

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Speaker 3: as we've moved more into like a YouTube media sphere,

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Speaker 3: so it's been exciting to both bring that back for

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Speaker 3: like esthetic and nostalgia's sake, and then also to sort

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Speaker 3: of see what and I think the shows in early stages.

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Speaker 3: So I am excited to keep playing with this but

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Speaker 3: finding out like what exactly the package does for the content.

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Speaker 3: We talk a lot about like form follows function and

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Speaker 3: vice versa, but I think there's like intentionality behind presenting

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Speaker 3: it as a late night show. It's not just like

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Speaker 3: for aesthetic value.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of late night televised comedy, The People's Joker follows

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Speaker 2: an aspiring comedian who goes by Joker the Harlequin as

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Speaker 2: she attempts to host a Lauren Michael's TV show legally

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Speaker 2: distinct from snl Oh, and on her way, she transits

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Speaker 2: her gender and fights Batman. The project started a few

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Speaker 2: years ago because a friend of filmmaker Vera Drew jokingly

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Speaker 2: commissioned her for twelve dollars to make a re edit

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Speaker 2: of Todd Phillips's Joker movie. Phillips had been in the

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Speaker 2: news cycle complaining that quote unquote, woke culture was making

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Speaker 2: it too hard to make comedy, which is interesting coming

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Speaker 2: from a guy who's continually made some of the most

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Speaker 2: successful comedies in the past twenty years. But I digress.

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Speaker 2: Here's Vera Drew talking about how The People's Joker ballooned

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Speaker 2: from an ironic re edit of the in Cell Joker

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Speaker 2: movie into a whole new piece of queer cinema.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I started doing it, like in earnest. I started

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Speaker 5: like actually re editing the movie. And I had worked

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Speaker 5: at Absolutely Productions for years as an editor and had

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Speaker 5: kind of come up as an alternative comedy editor, So

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Speaker 5: you know, at that point it was probably just going

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Speaker 5: to be like a lot of bart sound effects and

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Speaker 5: woosh noises and slips and slide whistles. But as I

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Speaker 5: was working on it and kind of just making this

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Speaker 5: like big piece of like bound footage video art, like

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Speaker 5: a narrative kind of just like fell into place, and

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Speaker 5: I it kind of just came in an instant and

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Speaker 5: I was just like, oh, okay, I think I actually

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Speaker 5: want to make like a coming of age film, but

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Speaker 5: I want to make like a parody of The Joker,

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Speaker 5: like in that process and kind of just like tell

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Speaker 5: like a really earnest and super personal autobiographical story about

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Speaker 5: my life and growing up in the Midwest and coming

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Speaker 5: out as trans and comedy and you know, my relationship

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Speaker 5: with my mom and toxic relationship I was in and stuff,

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Speaker 5: but kind of process and mythologize all of that through

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Speaker 5: Batman characters. So that's kind of the origin of the movie.

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Speaker 5: I guess I had also kind of been kicking around

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Speaker 5: an idea for like a body horror, like a transpot

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Speaker 5: horror movie before that that was basically like about a

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Speaker 5: drag queen who was physically addicted to irony and like

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Speaker 5: couldn't like survive without it, but it was also like

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Speaker 5: destroying her from the inside out, and the two ideas

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Speaker 5: kind of like merged together into this sort of I guess,

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Speaker 5: like ver Drew, I watched a lot of Batman growing up,

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Speaker 5: but from a weirdly young age, I was also always

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Speaker 5: weirdly fascinated by late night TV. My parents never watched

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Speaker 5: the news, but they watched late night. They got their

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Speaker 5: news from Stephen Colbert, they got their news from, at

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Speaker 5: least at a certain point, Jimmy Fallon, although that fell

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Speaker 5: off quite quickly. But I've just always been incredibly fascinated

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Speaker 5: by the whole late night format as a cultural source

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Speaker 5: for news. At a certain point around twenty seventeen, YouTube

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Speaker 5: started pushing late night clips into everyone's feeds, and everyone

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Speaker 5: just got so inundated with this style of political comedy.

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Speaker 3: I also grew up on The Daily Show and Colbert.

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Speaker 3: My parents are both journalists, so I probably am a

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Speaker 3: little biased towards being someone who did read the paper

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Speaker 3: growing up, who did like watch CNN growing up. But

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Speaker 3: I recognized there's this huge chunk of America who gets

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Speaker 3: their news from yeah, Colbert's monologue, from Letterman's monologue, from

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Speaker 3: the Colbert Report, which is such a.

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Speaker 4: Crazy, very very scary.

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Speaker 2: I had so many like conservative family members who did

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Speaker 2: not realize the Colbert Rapport was satire, took it as

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Speaker 2: a legitimate news source.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: I mean when Trevor Noah took over The Daily Show,

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Speaker 3: they tried to do like their version of the Colbert

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Speaker 3: Rapport with Jordan Klepper's The Opposition, And I think there

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Speaker 3: are a number of reasons that didn't work out, but

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Speaker 3: one of them being that the like the Colbert Rapport

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Speaker 3: was parodying the other Fox News guy. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 3: pairting that whole realm of people and the Opposition was

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Speaker 3: partying info wars, which is almost an unparitable thing. So

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Speaker 3: like the like the right wing media ecosystem has shifted

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Speaker 3: so far that that you can't really get a Colbert

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Speaker 3: Report now, it just doesn't work. But yeah, like there's

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Speaker 3: so many people who get their information directly from that.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot about like the creator responsibility,

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Speaker 3: like which is a word that gets start or a

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Speaker 3: lot around in social media spaces. But it's interesting to

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Speaker 3: think that Colbert now and Stuart and even like Seth

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Speaker 3: Meyers have this responsibility as like informants to their audience

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Speaker 3: in some sorts of the sole source of news for

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Speaker 3: those people. When we were writing our misinformation piece, we

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Speaker 3: did talk about how in twenty fifteen, there was a

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Speaker 3: poll that came out that said that like the majority

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Speaker 3: of liberals, like the highest percentage of rules got their

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Speaker 3: news from The.

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Speaker 4: Daily Show with John Stewart.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot about the excuse John used

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Speaker 3: to give to conservatives at the time who would criticize

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Speaker 3: him for not doing his due diligence on any given subject.

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Speaker 4: He would often say, well, we're a comedy show.

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Speaker 3: The show that comes on after us is Pupp's making

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Speaker 3: prank phone calls, and he would sort of like deflect

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Speaker 3: that responsibility by saying, I'm an entertainer first. And I

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Speaker 3: think that one of the big things that has changed

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Speaker 3: in the last twenty years or however long, is that

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Speaker 3: the line between entertainer and journalist has totally blurred. With

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Speaker 3: like the rise of like video essays on YouTube, and

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Speaker 3: just like again like the democratization of information and content creation,

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Speaker 3: everyone is sort of an entertainer, everyone is sort of

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Speaker 3: a journalist. There is like a responsibility that comes with

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Speaker 3: having a platform, and so obviously, like our show takes

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Speaker 3: a great deal of care to make sure that the

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Speaker 3: information we're presenting is is accurate and correct, and that

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Speaker 3: the analysis we're doing is as empathetic and thoughtful as

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Speaker 3: we can.

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Speaker 2: I do think there is real value in going after

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Speaker 2: late night as a specific culturally impactful mode that isn't

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Speaker 2: just comedy, isn'to just to the news, and in its

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Speaker 2: quest to be a little bit of both, it becomes

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Speaker 2: its own thing. I've always been interested to see what

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Speaker 2: a late night show with my politics would look like,

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Speaker 2: and I think to some degree, you can look at

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Speaker 2: John Stewart in the twoth and I've been watching Stuart's

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Speaker 2: new stuff on the Daily Show every Monday, mostly just

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Speaker 2: to see how he's going to handle this landscape, which

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Speaker 2: is very different from when he left in twenty fifteen. Nowadays,

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Speaker 2: I think you can look to John Oliver as being

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Speaker 2: probably slightly more radical, but even still there's a decent gap.

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Speaker 2: Certainly some YouTube shows try to fill in that gap,

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Speaker 2: but I've really enjoyed watching the Late Stage team apply

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Speaker 2: classic late night stylings to a more radical queer form

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Speaker 2: of politics, including like Ella mentioned, correspondence segments as well

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Speaker 2: as actual reporting. Late Stage Live did a recent piece

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Speaker 2: on the effects of Libs of TikTok. It was a

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Speaker 2: really good look at something that I oddly hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: anyone else really interrogate before, actually looking at the people

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Speaker 2: that Libs of TikTok has targeted and how that has

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Speaker 2: literally affected their lives.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, we are still like growing and trying new things.

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Speaker 3: I was really proud of the Libs of TikTok piece.

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Speaker 3: It was the first time we'd done like firsthand recording

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Speaker 3: on the show, and it's like something I want to

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Speaker 3: keep exploring. One of my favorite parts of the Daily

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Speaker 3: Show is the more serious like field pieces they end

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Speaker 3: up doing that obviously also have comedic games applied to.

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Speaker 4: Them, but also are like real journalism that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe mainstream news institutions don't cover, and that's really exciting

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Speaker 3: and obviously coming from like a specifically queer perspective. There's

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Speaker 3: not a ton of specifically queer news. There's a few magazines,

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Speaker 3: but there's nothing huge.

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Speaker 2: It could happen here, will return after these messages we

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Speaker 2: now returned to. It could happen here. Something I noticed

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Speaker 2: about both Late Stage Lives and The People's Joker is

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Speaker 2: that they're not just made by queer people, but the

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Speaker 2: work itself feels queer. I think part of the reason

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Speaker 2: why is that both carry this spirit of patchwork and

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Speaker 2: collect aberration, proudly featuring a sense of punkish outside noess

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Speaker 2: that's uninterested in being tamed for a sis straight audience.

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Speaker 2: The end result is one holy reflective of the community

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Speaker 2: that has fostered the arts creation. To extrapolate on this,

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Speaker 2: let's return to my interview with Vera Drew. I know

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Speaker 2: for a while you were getting people to send in

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Speaker 2: to like send in stuff to get put in the film.

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Speaker 2: There was kind of it was like a very collaborative

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Speaker 2: start to this project, and I am I am interested

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Speaker 2: in that aspect of like how this is like both

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Speaker 2: like a collage multimedia piece, but also it's not like

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Speaker 2: the work of like one singular artist. It's like a

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Speaker 2: very like queer community made thing. And it definitely feels

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Speaker 2: that way, especially with all of like all like the sets,

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Speaker 2: all of like the art. It's so many different styles

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Speaker 2: mashed together into like this beautiful mosaic. And I'm interested

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Speaker 2: in like your decision to have it be that collaborative

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Speaker 2: thing and how that kind of came together.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for asking, because yeah, I don't really get

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Speaker 5: to talk about that that much. And it's it's definitely

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Speaker 5: like a part of this that really, I think is

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Speaker 5: why the movie just feels inherently queer. You know, we

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Speaker 5: had just this incredible team of people working on it

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Speaker 5: because you know, like I said, like I did cash

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Speaker 5: in like every favor I had, you know, to cash in.

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Speaker 5: But you know, the movie started as this like video

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Speaker 5: remix thing, and then I think as we were writing

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Speaker 5: the script and it became more narrative driven. It was

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Speaker 5: just like we were always writing this script that was

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Speaker 5: very impossible to film. Uh, you know, just a very

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Speaker 5: like there's Batmobile and like, yeah, you know, fuck are

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Speaker 5: you gonna do that? But we weren't really thinking about

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Speaker 5: that as much. We were just like, let's just write

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Speaker 5: this movie, and let's just write it as like a

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Speaker 5: comic book movie, like let's have the tropes of a

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Speaker 5: comic book movie and a queer coming of age film

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Speaker 5: and and just fully execute those. And you know, I

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Speaker 5: think the idea of it becoming sort of this mixed

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Speaker 5: media piece was was very gradual. I think like it

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Speaker 5: was one of the many things about this This movie

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Speaker 5: was very intuitively like I never had a budget. Really,

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Speaker 5: I would never make a movie like this again. It

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Speaker 5: was it was very like kind of figuring it out

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Speaker 5: as you go in a lot of ways, especially just

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Speaker 5: on the like business side of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it has that kind of Inland Empire uncanniness a

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Speaker 2: little bit totally.

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Speaker 5: There's definitely that. It's definitely I'm working backwards this, this

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Speaker 5: is my Inland Empire and you know, like twenty years

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Speaker 5: I'll have my eraser head finally. Yes, yes, But it

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Speaker 5: really just kind of followed that like sort of intuitive path.

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Speaker 5: And I kind of announced what I was doing and

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Speaker 5: I said, you know, my friend and I are making

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Speaker 5: this queer joker parody and anybody who wants to help us,

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Speaker 5: like you know right here, and I kind of at

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Speaker 5: that point it still was in this kind of like

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Speaker 5: loose space of what is this really? But just so

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Speaker 5: many artists came forward, and most of them artists who

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Speaker 5: had never worked on film or TV. So it was

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Speaker 5: a lot of just like fine artists and painters and

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Speaker 5: illustrators and visual artists. And then like a lot of

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Speaker 5: people too, just that I had seen for years on

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Speaker 5: trans Twitter or like like featured in like very like

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Speaker 5: fringe like zines and shit like that. So it's just like,

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Speaker 5: holy shit, like we could really make this movie that

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Speaker 5: looks like nothing you've ever seen before, and and we

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Speaker 5: can do it too in a way that like we're

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Speaker 5: creating original art, you know, like all the art in

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Speaker 5: it is original. I mean, like we recreate a lot

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Speaker 5: of sets and stuff from famous comic book movies, but

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Speaker 5: like it was painstakingly created, and every character had its

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Speaker 5: own character design, you know, original character design. Like we

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Speaker 5: couldn't just take mister mix auplick and put them in

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Speaker 5: the movie, Like we had to go, okay, like how

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Speaker 5: can we clear mister mix alepla like, Okay, we'll make

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Speaker 5: a mix mixy and they'll be like a weird like

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Speaker 5: floating like Hanna Barbera cartoon type, but it's kind of

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Speaker 5: more hr puff and stuff. Was the vibe we went

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Speaker 5: for there, very sit in marty Croft, even with a

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Speaker 5: community of queer artists. How does one go from the

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Speaker 5: idea stage of say, hey, let's make a more queer

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Speaker 5: and radically oriented late night comedy show to having it

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Speaker 5: actually be filmed and then broadcast. So I asked Ella

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Speaker 5: what allowed her to get this project off the ground

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Speaker 5: and what her process was like going from an idea

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Speaker 5: to something that's now on air.

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Speaker 3: So, like I said, I've been writing for Some More

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Speaker 3: News for three years and I love that job and

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Speaker 3: I love my coworkers there, but they are doing one thing,

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Speaker 3: and I, over the last year or so, sort of

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Speaker 3: started to realize that I also wanted to be doing

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Speaker 3: this other thing. I wanted the live studio audience. I

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Speaker 3: wanted a very queer focused show. I wanted an in

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Speaker 3: person writer's room ultimately, or like a local writer's room.

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Speaker 3: Because everyone else had Some More News is La based

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Speaker 3: as far as I'm aware, and I'm the only East

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Speaker 3: Coaster out here, and I just wanted the whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of things that Somewhere News wasn't doing. So I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I guess I have to do that myself because there's

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Speaker 3: no one else doing it that hire me. But I

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Speaker 3: grateful that I had my experience with Somewhere News and

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Speaker 3: continue to have my experience with them, because I structured

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Speaker 3: our writer's room very similarly to them, and I took

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Speaker 3: a lot of inspiration from their early stages in terms

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Speaker 3: of like the creative side of things and then in

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Speaker 3: terms of like finding people and making it happen. Something

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Speaker 3: I've learned my whole life as a creative is that

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Speaker 3: you just sort of have to fucking do it. I've

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Speaker 3: been like self producing work since I was eighteen. When

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Speaker 3: I was eighteen, my community theater in my hometown had

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Speaker 3: a big all hands meeting where they were like, hey,

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Speaker 3: we're out of money.

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Speaker 4: What do we do?

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Speaker 3: And I said, you should do a Shakespeare play because

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Speaker 3: you don't have to pay for the royalties for that,

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Speaker 3: and they were like, well, we don't have anyone who

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Speaker 3: wants to direct a Shakespeare play. And I said, okay,

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Speaker 3: then I'll do it, and they were like, okay, then

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Speaker 3: you do it, and I sort of had to just

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Speaker 3: do it. And I did it, and it was messy

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Speaker 3: and pretty amateurish, and then I did it again the

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Speaker 3: next year, and I got better, and I did it

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Speaker 3: again the next year. It got better after that, and

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Speaker 3: then after I graduated college, I started doing stand up again.

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Speaker 3: I just stand up a little bit pre transition, and

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Speaker 3: it was terrible, and so I started to become a

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Speaker 3: girl and I started doing stand up again, and I

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Speaker 3: realized there wasn't a ton of spaces in the stand

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Speaker 3: up scene for trans people, and I.

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Speaker 4: Said, okay, so let's host a trans show.

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Speaker 3: And I found a bar and I got in touch

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Speaker 3: with the bar, and then I just started dming comics

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Speaker 3: and I said, hey, I don't really know any of

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Speaker 3: you because I'm not really integrated into this comedy scene,

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Speaker 3: but please, and the show solely grew and I started

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Speaker 3: to meet more people, and then by the time I

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Speaker 3: had the idea to do late stage, I had been

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Speaker 3: doing my show for about a year and a half

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Speaker 3: and I was pretty integrated into the comedy scene, so

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Speaker 3: I was never worried about finding writers in terms of quantity.

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Speaker 3: I reached out to my headwriter Read Pope last April

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Speaker 3: after seeing a similarly live show by my friend Kay

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Speaker 3: Loggins called Knight Live that she does every so often,

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Speaker 3: and I helped her with the production day on that

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Speaker 3: It was a thirteen hour production day, and I just

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Speaker 3: remember having so much fun realizing that you could find

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Speaker 3: people in the artistic community like enough people who were

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Speaker 3: willing to do it. So yeah, I reached out to

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Speaker 3: Read in April and I said, Hey, I have this idea,

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Speaker 3: and they said, cool, here's a list of people I

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Speaker 3: think would be fun to work with. And we reached

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Speaker 3: out to a small handful of writers and some of

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Speaker 3: them got back to us and some of them didn't,

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Speaker 3: and we slowly found our team of people who were

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Speaker 3: able to commit to a first monthly and now weekly

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Speaker 3: writers meeting.

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Speaker 2: After the writing team was assembled, they still needed to

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Speaker 2: find a place to record the show. The director and

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Speaker 2: executive producer Octavia helped find the public access station in

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn that Late Stage now shoots at, which is open

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Speaker 2: to the public.

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Speaker 3: Do you have to take a five week course there

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Speaker 3: where you get certified in all of the equipment and

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Speaker 3: then you just get to sort of reserve their space

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Speaker 3: and do whatever you want there, and over the course

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Speaker 3: of those five weeks, Read, Octavia and I would take

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Speaker 3: this like bi weekly class and afterwards we'd go and

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Speaker 3: get food and we would just talk about what the

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Speaker 3: show needed and where it was. Every time a roll

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Speaker 3: popped up in discussion that we didn't have yet, Octavia

438
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 3: or Read or I would say, oh, I know someone,

439
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: and we'd pick up the phone and call them immediately.

440
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 3: And so it was a very organic growth in terms

441
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 3: of production team at first, and that just comes from

442
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 3: like working within your own community and like finding an

443
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 3: artistic community. I don't think I could be doing this

444
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: two years ago, Like I'm really grateful for having hosted

445
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: a stand up show for many years first to integrate

446
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 3: myself into that community and knowing a lot of like hardworking,

447
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 3: multifaceted artists.

448
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: Once again, the ability to make friends both in your

449
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: local community and even online remains one of the best

450
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: ways to get shit done. The collaborative multi media collage

451
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: aspect not only in views a project with a sense

452
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: of DIY queerness, it also makes tackling a project as

453
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: gargantuan as The People's Joker a bit more feasible.

454
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 5: We'd have these like artists with like you know, like

455
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 5: Matty Forrest makes beautiful puppets and just beautiful arts. So

456
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 5: it's like, okay, like obviously we're an ad. Maddie asked

457
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 5: Maddie to make the mixele Plick puppet and like it'll

458
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 5: be like a Sid Mardi Kroft puppet. And like one

459
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 5: of the other artists that came through was Salem Hughes,

460
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 5: who makes these like three D like Low Holly three

461
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 5: D models, And at that point it was like, okay,

462
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 5: well that obviously has to be like our bat cave,

463
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 5: Like we'll make it look like a like a Doom

464
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 5: like N sixty four video game or something, and the

465
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 5: batmobile too. So it's just kind of like figuring, like

466
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 5: breaking up everybody's role into these individual pieces and like

467
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 5: kind of going by like both physical locations, like reserving

468
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 5: one artist for each physical location that we'd see pop

469
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 5: up in things. You know, like Paul McBride did all

470
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 5: of the Joker Apartment shots and we recreated Woking Phoenix's

471
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 5: Joker apartment, but you know, change the color and the

472
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 5: wallpaper and blah blah blah, and Paul again like another

473
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 5: person who just like Paul, just makes three D models

474
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: just to like relax. I guess, like he just makes

475
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 5: these beautiful interiors, and it was like, okay, cool, we'll

476
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 5: make like a beautiful, like hyper realistic interior. I never

477
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 5: really forced my aesthetic on anybody. I really just allowed

478
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 5: people to just kind of like lean into they're aesthetic

479
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 5: and just do what they wanted and kind of like

480
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 5: just run wild and be like, okay, so you make

481
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 5: low polyart, like we'll do just do that in this case,

482
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 5: and our amusement park set was made by this artist

483
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 5: at GRAT and he just makes beautiful DMT like psychedelic imagery.

484
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 5: So it was like we got this you know, hyper

485
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 5: crazy like weird perspective amusement park from him, and we

486
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 5: turned that into a three D model, you know, rather

487
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 5: than going like.

488
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 4: How are we going to make this work?

489
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 5: You know, like this is a this is a flat painting,

490
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 5: you know, like it's a location we keep seeing in

491
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 5: the movie, like how are we going to make it work?

492
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: But it was just like just kind of saying yes

493
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 5: and to everything and really allowing everybody to just play

494
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 5: to their best strengths. And I knew that like my

495
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 5: voice and my vision were always going to be there,

496
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 5: like my face was going to be on screen for

497
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 5: most of the movie, and like it's my story. Like

498
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 5: I was never really worried about losing myself or disappearing

499
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 5: in the art at all, and instinctually, I just kind

500
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 5: of knew it would make the movie feel very clear,

501
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 5: and that's really just what it was.

502
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: Like.

503
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 5: It was really just this big kind of DIY community

504
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 5: art project, and it was a big task for me

505
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 5: to kind of like find the unified aesthetic. But thankfully,

506
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 5: you know, like I've done VFX, I had a lot

507
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 5: of other VFX artists helping me work on the film,

508
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 5: and we were able to kind of find a through

509
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 5: line in the way like all filmmakers have to. You know,

510
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 5: you just stick to a color scheme, you stick to

511
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 5: a very certain type of pacing, and you know, and

512
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 5: musically too, like I think we really like were able

513
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 5: to like bridge a lot of the things together just

514
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 5: by like having constant music playing. And you know, I

515
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 5: think I was really influenced by Natural Born Killers and

516
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 5: Pink Floyd's The Wall and also Headwig in The Angry Inch.

517
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: I think we're like kind of the Big Three, and

518
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: also returned to Oz. Those are the Big four and

519
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 5: just to round it out to five then Batman forever,

520
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 5: of course. But I think like a movie's never really

521
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 5: been made. I think plenty of movies are made like

522
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 5: this all the time, like where these like little communities

523
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 5: of people get together, but like this was like an

524
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 5: intercontinental kind of community project and it was beautiful, Like

525
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 5: I'm so glad we did it, and it was it

526
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 5: was an opportunity to really hopefully like get a lot

527
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 5: of artists visibility in spaces that they normally wouldn't be visible,

528
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 5: and an opportunity to to like work with a lot

529
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 5: of really talented people and allow them and make them

530
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 5: feel valued.

531
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: You know.

532
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 5: I just worked on so many things where it's like

533
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 5: you get art back from somebody and then you're like

534
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 5: we got to send this back or you're fired or

535
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 5: you know whatever, And this is like I never wanted

536
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 5: to be that. It was very much like this is

537
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 5: kind of all of our movie in a way. And

538
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: now that the movie's out there too, I really think

539
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 5: of it. It's like it's just it's got its own life,

540
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 5: like it's kind of no longer mine, and it kind

541
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: of never really was. It was always like ours. It

542
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 5: was always mine and my friends and you know, all

543
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 5: the people that worked on it with me, And I

544
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 5: think that is just really cool, And thanks for giving

545
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 5: me the opportunity to talk about it, because I think

546
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 5: it's one of the things that kind of gets lost

547
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 5: about this project a lot, just because of how personal

548
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 5: it is and because of our legal stuff. But like

549
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 5: I would have never been able to make this if

550
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 5: it wasn't for the team we will return to.

551
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: It could happen here after these messages we now return to.

552
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: It could happen here. What I find most inspiring about

553
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: projects like The People's Joker and some of the other

554
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: indie no budget transfilms by filmmakers like Alice Mayo, Mackay

555
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: and Mia Moore, as well as projects like Late Stage Live,

556
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: is that they demonstrate that we don't need to rely

557
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: on big studios or big production companies to green light

558
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: things in order to make our own stuff.

559
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 4: You can just make it.

560
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: Which is not to say that it's easy, but the

561
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: biggest drive to getting something done is literally just getting

562
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: it done. Is just doing it. And if people see

563
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: you doing a cool thing, oddly enough, some of them

564
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: will want to help you, which is kind of a

565
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: bizarre notion, but it does end up being true.

566
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: The core thing I've learned about producing work over the

567
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: last many years is people are willing to do stuff

568
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: if you do it first. If you prove to them

569
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: that you're committed to something and have a cool idea,

570
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: people will jump on board. Yeah, And I think that's

571
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: been proven by how excited our audience has been for

572
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: the show, how willing people have been to jump on

573
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: and our entire crew and writing stuff is volunteer. Right now,

574
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: We're making a little bit of money on Patreon, but

575
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: certainly not enough to pay the twenty plus person team

576
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: that ends up working with us every month, although that

577
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 3: is the goal down the line. But yeah, people are

578
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 3: willing to do a cool thing and volunteer their time.

579
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: Artists want to be making stuff, and so it's just

580
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 3: about doing it and then just doing it again. When

581
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: I first started hosting my State up show, we did

582
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: it the first time, and I spent months like came

583
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: about it, and after the first month, I was like,

584
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: oh my god, that was so hard. How am I

585
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: going to find enough transcomics to you at a second time?

586
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: How am I going to have the energy to do

587
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: a second time? And my boyfriend at the time said,

588
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: if you want it to be a monthly show, you

589
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 3: just have to do it every month for a while,

590
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: even if it sucks, and then eventually it will suck less.

591
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: And he's right. He's still right, and I'm still doing

592
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: that show two years later. And we did late Stage

593
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: the first time, and it was several months push to

594
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 3: get the first script out, and we got the first

595
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: episode out and we were like, oh my god, Okay,

596
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: let's do this again in one month.

597
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 4: Can we do it?

598
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: And we did it a second time and it was

599
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: also fun and good, and then you just like figure

600
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: out how to make it easier each time. And I

601
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: will not deny that it is hard work. We are

602
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: all slowly killing ourselves to make this show. I work

603
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: a forty hour food service day job that I came

604
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: directly from to do this interview. Everyone else on my

605
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: show is either working full time on top of the show,

606
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: or unemployed and slowly losing money. At various stage people

607
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: would like to fire queer people. So every few weeks

608
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: someone comes into a writer's meeting is.

609
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: Like, guys, I lost my job. Hah. So I will

610
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: not deny that it's hard, and I don't want to.

611
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: I don't ever want someone to think of me saying

612
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: just do it is like it's easy because it's a

613
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: lot of work, and all of my team is like

614
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: incredibly talented and has years of experience doing things. Everyone

615
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: in the comedy scene in Brooklyn talks about like wanting

616
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 3: to get staffed on a late night show, which is awesome,

617
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: and I would love to get staffed on a late edge,

618
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: Like though, that's the coveted job at the end of

619
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: the line for the stand up community, but like, you

620
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: don't have to wait for that. You can just make

621
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: the work you're doing. And I've had conversations with my

622
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: writers where they've all been like, this has been a

623
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: really cool opportunity because at the very least I've sort

624
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: of found out if I would actually want to write

625
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: on a late night show. We talk about that as

626
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: a coveted job, but maybe I don't want to do that.

627
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: It's a very different skill than stand up and that's

628
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: been a fun learning curve as well as hiring a

629
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: bunch of stand ups. To write long form political analysis,

630
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: you sort of have to herd cats to some degree.

631
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: Even with a supportive community, so work can be really grueling,

632
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: and the road from a finished movie to being on

633
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: the big screen can be a monumental challenge. The People's

634
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: Joker is slightly unique in this way because of its

635
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: peculiar copyright status of being a fair use superhero parody

636
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: using some of our culture's most recognizable iconography to tell

637
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: a very personal story. Right before the movie was set

638
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: to premiere at TIFF, the Toronto International Film Festival back

639
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, Warner Brothers sent a vaguely worded

640
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: but threatening letter which resulted in the People's Joker of

641
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: being pulled from the festival save for one late night screening.

642
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: Yet throughout the legal chaos, Vera dru remained to steadfast

643
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: to ensure the movie would be released the right way,

644
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: on the big screen where it belongs. This film has had,

645
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: like a I guess, a troubled history, some might say,

646
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: and how are you able to stick with this project

647
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: after encountering like hurdles and problems, like because a certain

648
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: point it's like, is this like a some cost fallacy

649
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: or something like how did you decide to like actually

650
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: stick with this and like really fight for this as

651
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: a as a piece of like expressive art.

652
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 5: Gosh, you know, I mean I think I feel like

653
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 5: I just didn't have like a choice really, Like I

654
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 5: think when with the movie done and with how well

655
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: just our first screening at Tiff went, like it was

656
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 5: just like I was kind of at a point where

657
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: I could shelve it, like cause that was really the

658
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 5: other option, you know, put it just away for a

659
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 5: few years and come back and maybe like you know,

660
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: and public domain is a little bit more, you know,

661
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 5: it's it falls under public domain because it will and

662
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 5: like I mean, at least uh Joker and Batman will

663
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 5: be in public domain in ten or fifteen years. So

664
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 5: like that was like an idea. I guess that was

665
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 5: floated to me a few times. Whro It's just like

666
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 5: I don't I didn't want to wait that long, and

667
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 5: I just I really put all I had into this movie,

668
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 5: you know, like I can in every favor I had

669
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 5: ever accumulated in Hollywood financially, Like I took out a

670
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 5: huge loan to finish it, and it was just this big,

671
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 5: deeply personal thing that I had made that originally really

672
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: was just for me and my friends. Like it was

673
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 5: just kind of a thing that I had just made,

674
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 5: you know, maybe I would have shown it to like

675
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 5: my Patreon or something. But like after a certain point,

676
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 5: like it, you know, once we had that like premiere,

677
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 5: it was just like like I can't just post this

678
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 5: to YouTube. I can't like just dump it somewhere or

679
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 5: like shelve it all my agents and stuff. I have

680
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 5: way too many agents now, and they all were like

681
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 5: telling me to that basically like it's it's it's okay

682
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 5: that it's not coming out. We can basically just use

683
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 5: this to get the next project going. But I mean

684
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 5: I quickly realized in that process, like this movie is

685
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 5: like a fucking like you don't show this movie to

686
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 5: a studio executive and then they immediately are like, yeah,

687
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 5: let's let's hire this person. They just want to like

688
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 5: have lunch with this crazy bitch who made the Joker movie,

689
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 5: you know. Like so it was like it just quickly

690
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 5: became clear, like where like kind of just the people

691
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 5: around me who had the best interest of the movie

692
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 5: at heart, and also like just what felt bad and

693
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 5: what felt right and what felt right really was like

694
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 5: taking the movie out just to festivals and kind of

695
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 5: doing like a secret screening tour, which is what we did,

696
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 5: and that was really exciting and kind of like a

697
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 5: jokerfied way of sort of getting this movie out there.

698
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 5: And that was really just on an emotional and like

699
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 5: personal level, really what carried me through.

700
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be in attendance at one

701
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: of the Secret Festival screenings a few years back, and

702
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: I was delighted to hear that nearly two years after

703
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 2: it initially premiered at Tiff, the People's Joker was able

704
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: to secure a distribution partner to put the movie in

705
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: theaters nationwide. So once again I was fortunate enough to

706
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 2: rewatch a piece of queer Batman art that otherwise would

707
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: never been made under Warner Brothers Thumb and I think

708
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: this is also the case with Late Stage Live and

709
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: many of these new independent queer projects. They most likely

710
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: would not be produced by one of the massive media

711
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: conglomerates that controls almost everything. You see. The small, independent

712
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: nature of these productions actually gives them an opportunity to

713
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 2: be much more queer and politically radical than what would

714
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: be allowed under Disney, Universal, Sony, Paramount, Warner Media Incorporated.

715
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 3: We're like, obviously far more radical politically than any other

716
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: late night show on the air right now. And it's

717
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 3: something we've been thinking about as we attempt to scale

718
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: and try to find people who are going to fund us,

719
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: is that there are certainly people who could give us

720
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 3: a lot of money who would also then really want

721
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: to like limit the kind of speech we can make

722
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: and the kind of opinions we can have, And so

723
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: there's obviously a balance as we look for funding and

724
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 3: growth opportunities. But Brick the Public Access Network is their

725
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 3: whole thing is free speech, and so part of working

726
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: with them is their commit to free speech and radical programming.

727
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in the choice to have it also

728
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: be on cable access. I find that to be oddly

729
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: compelling in an interesting way, and I wonder, like what

730
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: led you to that decision.

731
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: So part of that is like rules and regulations at

732
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 3: Brick the Studio. So you take one hundred dollars five

733
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: week class with them to learn how to use their stuff,

734
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 3: and they offer a lot of other classes too. You

735
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: can take a podcasting class to use their podcasting studio,

736
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 3: or a field class to be able to rent out

737
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: equipment and go do stuff in the field. A lot

738
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: of people make documentaries with their equipment. It's a very

739
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 3: cool team if you're in Brooklyn, you should go work

740
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 3: with Brick.

741
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 4: They're awesome.

742
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 3: But on one of the contingencies of working in their

743
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: space is that when you film something with them, you

744
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: do eventually owe them a product that they air on

745
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: their network, and that for us is the show. We're

746
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: not doing a ton of other stuff right now, although

747
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: you know, with infinite money and time, we would love

748
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: to be doing many other things. But Brick is awesome

749
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: and really values like free speech and creator freedom, and

750
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: so even though we owe them a product, we get

751
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: retain full ownership of our stuff. And so the way

752
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: it is in this zany Internet landscape is that YouTube

753
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: is the place to.

754
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: Get eyes on a project.

755
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: Like if I thought that public access TV was going

756
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: to be the place to to like blow up, I

757
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: maybe would be like focusing much harder on promoting that

758
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: end of distribution. But I think for what we're making

759
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 3: and what we're doing, YouTube and the Internet is like

760
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: how to build an audience. But it's it does lend

761
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: it like an interesting credibility to be on public access

762
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 3: and esthetically we really like leaning into sort of like

763
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: the nineties public access vibes. Part of that is the

764
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: equipment we're using. Our cameras are not the most modern,

765
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: so you get a slightly grainy vibe. You get. The

766
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: backdrop is like string and papers sprung together. We're filming

767
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: in four to three, which is a really strong decision. Well,

768
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 3: actually we film in sixty nine, we export in four three, whatever,

769
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: but it gives us a very distinct visual look.

770
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: I think next episode we'll talk more about how so

771
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: much queer video art feels like it's forced to be

772
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: on YouTube and attempts to break out of that bubble.

773
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: When The People's Joker was stuck in legal limbo, there

774
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: was a lot of pressure just to put the film

775
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: up online for free, and as much as Patients is painful,

776
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 2: resisting that urge and waiting for the right distribution partner

777
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: to come along really paid off in the long run.

778
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 5: I was just surrounded by other filmmakers in the genre community,

779
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 5: and you know who would see the movie at this

780
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 5: festival and be like, you need to just wait, like

781
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 5: the person who's going to help you is gonna come,

782
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 5: and if that doesn't happen, like you can self distribute,

783
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 5: which I did not want to do. Like at a

784
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 5: certain point, it was just like I had spent so

785
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 5: much money finishing it. I just I would have ruined

786
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 5: my life. I think if I self distributed it, like

787
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 5: I just couldn't. I didn't have the bandwidth. And I

788
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 5: want to make films. I don't want to distribute them

789
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 5: at this point, like maybe someday, but like right now,

790
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 5: I just like want to tell as many stories as

791
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 5: I can. I had a lot of support around me,

792
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 5: and there was just so much enthusiasm from you know,

793
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 5: people like you who saw it at festivals last year,

794
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 5: who like we're basically like holy shit, and just all

795
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 5: the kind of responses we're seeing now to it.

796
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 4: Like it was.

797
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 5: I got little like micronoses of that last year, which

798
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 5: literally was I mean, I it's probably fucking tacky to say,

799
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 5: but it was just the darkest year of my life.

800
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 5: I was really just an anxious mess the entire time.

801
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 5: But I really did make this movie to like not

802
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 5: only understand myself and sort of mythologize my life and

803
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 5: my friends' lives and stuff like that, but like I

804
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 5: made it to like get better, Like I made it

805
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 5: to kind of heal not only my relationship with like

806
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: my gender, but my family and my art and like

807
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 5: how I want to make stuff, and I think, what's

808
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 5: really beautiful what happened in that like dark period and

809
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 5: up up until now and even right now, this movie

810
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 5: does really require me to take care of myself emotionally

811
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 5: and mentally in ways that are or what I've always needed.

812
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 5: So it's been it's been a cool kind of just

813
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 5: like really expensive therapy. Ultimately, even though a lot of

814
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 5: it's been really grueling.

815
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: That does it for this week at It Could Happen Here.

816
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: In the next episode after the weekend, I'll conclude my

817
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 2: conversation with Vera Drew and Ella Yerman talking about the

818
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: pitfalls of representation, moving beyond the YouTube bubble, and the

819
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 2: future of queer filmmaking. You can go to the Peoplesjoker

820
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: dot com for information on tickets and showtimes, and you

821
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: can find Late Stage Live by that name on all platforms,

822
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: and to support the show, you can get behind the

823
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: scenes content on Patreon at Late Stage Live. Solidarity to

824
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: everyone out there this week, see you on the other side.

825
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of Cool Zone Media.

826
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website

827
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio, app,

828
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can

829
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at

830
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, slash sources. Thanks for listening.