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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: We have all had maintenance men come to our apartment

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Speaker 2: or home. But what this maintenance man found when he

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Speaker 2: came to service a dishwasher was highly unusual. As a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact. Criminal. A little girl just two years old,

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Speaker 2: bound near death, starved and bound with duct tape. A

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Speaker 2: two year old little girl nearly starved, literally hours away

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Speaker 2: from death and horribly bound in duct tape. You know

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Speaker 2: what happens and you bind a child in duct tape?

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Speaker 2: Does the name top mom Casey Anthony ring a bell?

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Speaker 2: Remember when Kelley her two year old daughter, Kelly's remains found,

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Speaker 2: She was bound around the head with duct tape? Does

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Speaker 2: a name called mom Laurie Vallo and her husband number

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Speaker 2: four or five ring a bell? The prophet Chad Day

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Speaker 2: Bell duct tape? It goes on and on. Ruby Frankie,

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Speaker 2: the online influencer with her own program on how to

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Speaker 2: raise your children? Her children starved and duct taped? What

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Speaker 2: is wrong with these people? I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories and on series ex Sem one eleven. You

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Speaker 2: know what, I'm a JD T try a lawyer. I'm

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Speaker 2: not a shrink. Maybe they can sort through their problems

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Speaker 2: behind bars. And you know, there's a controversial move afoot

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Speaker 2: for the death penalty to be imposed in cases of

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Speaker 2: extreme child abuse. Let that sink in for a moment.

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Speaker 2: A two year old girl starved and bound in duct tape,

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Speaker 2: and they're not even trying to hide it. The dishwasher

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Speaker 2: repairman sees the girl first of all. Take a listen

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Speaker 2: to this.

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Speaker 3: Maintenance workers at a Houston apartment complex get a service

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Speaker 3: call for a non working dishwasher. As they make repairs,

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Speaker 3: a child can be heard crying unconsolably in another room.

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Speaker 3: The workers investigate and find a toddler lying in the

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Speaker 3: living room floor under a blanket. Lifting the blanket, the

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Speaker 3: two year old child's limbs are duct taped together. The

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Speaker 3: workers take photos and videos, leave the apartment and call

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Speaker 3: Houston police.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I'm so distraught about this. I need

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Speaker 2: to hear that again. Take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 2: at crime Online.

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Speaker 3: Maintenance workers at a Houston apartment complex get a service

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Speaker 3: call for a non working dishwasher. As they make repairs,

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Speaker 3: a child can be heard crying unconsolably in another room.

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Speaker 3: The workers investigate and find a toddler lying in the

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Speaker 3: living room floor under a blanket. Lifting the blanket, the

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Speaker 3: two year old child's limbs are duct taped together. The

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Speaker 3: workers take photos and videos, leave the apartment and call

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Speaker 3: Houston Police.

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Speaker 2: I guess they were too afraid to toast the child,

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Speaker 2: afraid that they would somehow be blamed for her condition.

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Speaker 2: And it reminds me a great deal of the case

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Speaker 2: we're covering right now out of Ritzy, La, where a

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Speaker 2: famous producer's son dismembers his wife and tries to convince

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Speaker 2: day workers to take the remains away and throw them

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Speaker 2: in a dumpster. They were so afraid when they into

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Speaker 2: the trash bag, they went straight to police because they

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Speaker 2: were afraid they would be blamed. Same thing here, joining

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Speaker 2: me an all star panel. But first I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go to crime online dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton. Nicole,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to just ask you a series of rapid

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Speaker 2: fire questions. Okay, then I'm going to go to the

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Speaker 2: other experts to explain aspects of what we are hearing

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Speaker 2: right now. You're telling me the little girls two years old, right, yes,

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Speaker 2: and she's near death. She starved that much. It's not

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Speaker 2: like she just went to bed without her supper. But

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Speaker 2: the girl is about to die at age two, and

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Speaker 2: they find her duct tape.

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Speaker 4: How they're they're working on the dishwasher and they hear

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Speaker 4: this baby crying, like not just the baby upset, but

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Speaker 4: uncontrollably crying, fighting for its life. They go into the

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Speaker 4: living room and they see a baby under a blanket.

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Speaker 4: When they lift the blanket, there she is duct taped,

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Speaker 4: her limbs duct tape. They see her emaciated body. She's

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Speaker 4: hours away from dying. Thank goodness. They take the videos

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Speaker 4: and they take photos and call us forty.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how medical professionals can determine you're just

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Speaker 2: quote hours from death, because Nicole Parton, you have literally

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Speaker 2: ten children. When I gave birth to the twins, the

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Speaker 2: doctor said Lucy would have died within thirty six to

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Speaker 2: seventy two hours if we had not had any emergency

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Speaker 2: c section. She was not getting any nutrition. She weighed

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Speaker 2: two pounds. John David or twin brother was getting it all.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how they can look at someone and

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Speaker 2: tell but guess what, they're almost always right. We have

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Speaker 2: a medical doctor on doctor Harvey Castro to explain that

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Speaker 2: to us. But first I'm want to go to doctor

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Speaker 2: John Delatory, very well known psychologist and mediator, especially in

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Speaker 2: forensic psychology. You can find him at Resolution FCS. Doctor Delatory,

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us, doctor Delatory. Another striking

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Speaker 2: aspect of this discovery of a two year old little

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Speaker 2: girl duct tape and starved. They didn't really even try

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Speaker 2: to hide it. The dishwasher repairman walks in and the

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Speaker 2: baby is in the lying in the floor under a blanket, crying.

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Speaker 2: I guess in the next room, what is that.

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Speaker 5: Well, you have to remember these individuals are doing this

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Speaker 5: because they don't see the child as being a human

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Speaker 5: in any way. Right. They have the blanket over the

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Speaker 5: child because they want the child to be scared. They

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Speaker 5: want the child in their mind. They're trying to teach

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Speaker 5: this child a lesson. Right does this matter if they

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Speaker 5: have any family relations or anything like that. All that

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Speaker 5: matters is that the children listen to them. Right, Children

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Speaker 5: in these situations are merely objects and if they if

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Speaker 5: the object does something wrong, then they need to be punished,

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Speaker 5: and they'll be punished with with restricted movement, and they'll

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Speaker 5: be punished with the restriction on food to teach them

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Speaker 5: a lesson. This is about power, This is about showing

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Speaker 5: that they have authority over the child.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll see who gets taught a lesson in this scenario.

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Speaker 2: I want to hear more about this, Jackie. Let's hear

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Speaker 2: in our cut to Dave Mack from Crime Online.

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Speaker 6: The maintenance workers show Houston police their photos and videos.

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Speaker 6: Police take the girl to the hospital, where doctors say

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Speaker 6: she might not have survived through the night had she

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Speaker 6: not been brought in for care. KPRC reports the child

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Speaker 6: was malnourished and suffered injuries indicating physical abuse.

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Speaker 2: This is what I'm learning. Let me go to doctor

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Speaker 2: Harvey Castro, board certifined emergency care physician, health care consultant,

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Speaker 2: CEO of Medical Intelligent Ops and creator of text Sherlock Holmes,

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Speaker 2: which I love because my son and I are obsessed

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Speaker 2: with Sherlock Combs and I very often go to my

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Speaker 2: mind palace. Dtor Castro, I want you to hear what

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Speaker 2: I've learned about the injuries to this two year old

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Speaker 2: little girl twenty four months old. Take a listen.

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Speaker 7: The two year old girl was found with her feet

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Speaker 7: duct taped and was determined to be nonverbal and suffering

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Speaker 7: from physical abuse as well as psychological abuse and neglect.

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Speaker 7: Doctors discovered she also suffered a brain bleed caused by

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Speaker 7: head trauma, anemia, and kidney failure as a result of

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Speaker 7: the abuse. Even though she is two years old, the

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Speaker 7: victim is so malnourished her weight is equivalent to that

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Speaker 7: of an average one year old. The list of the

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Speaker 7: child's injuries was extensive, including acute kidney injury, bilateral subdural hemorrhages, anemia, malnourishment,

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Speaker 7: subconjunctival hemorrhages, and retinal hemorrhages.

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Speaker 2: You know, doctor Harvey Castro, hearing Sidney Summer from crime online,

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Speaker 2: apparently read off from a medical report, reminds me of

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Speaker 2: going to the medical examiner's office. And of course they

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Speaker 2: would all hip when they saw my beat up Honda,

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Speaker 2: usually smoking from under the hood, coming their way, letting

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Speaker 2: the blinds down, shut the door because they did not

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Speaker 2: want to go through every single word, which I had

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Speaker 2: to do. It's like someone speaking Latin. When you medical

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Speaker 2: Lexander start talking, you no offense. I love medical examiners,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Harvey Castro. My first question is how can you

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Speaker 2: look at somebody and say, oh, well, they're going to

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Speaker 2: be dead in twenty four hours. How do you It's

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Speaker 2: like the weather. How do you know that?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, honestly, it's our clinical distault. After being seen so

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Speaker 8: many patients think of it. We see thousands of thousands

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Speaker 8: a year, and then walking in a room, you can

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Speaker 8: tell color of the skin, at their kneemas they're vitals

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Speaker 8: to how their heart rate, how they're acting. Often within

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Speaker 8: thirty seconds, you can walk in and tell yeah, this

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Speaker 8: this person's not going to make it, or this person's

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Speaker 8: going to be hospitalized, or we need to jump on

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Speaker 8: these things quick because this person's not going to make it.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that was a lot of information doctor. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to digest it, but it reminds me the twins are

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Speaker 2: constantly asking how do you know when people are lying? Well,

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Speaker 2: because I've put I don't know, five to eight thousand

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Speaker 2: people under oath and watched them lie. I certainly haven't

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Speaker 2: taken a class in it, but I can tell most

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Speaker 2: of the time. So you and other doctors, especially in

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Speaker 2: er doctors, because you see so many people near death.

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Speaker 2: It's not like going to the dermatologist, right, No, if

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Speaker 2: it's to all you dermys out there, But they took

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Speaker 2: one look at this little girlment she would be dead

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Speaker 2: in twenty four hours. That's what they said. When Lucy

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Speaker 2: was born, they looked at her and said she would

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Speaker 2: have been dead in thirty six hours.

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Speaker 1: Max Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

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Speaker 2: The injuries, specifically doctor Castro, the one that concerned me

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Speaker 2: the most. A brain bleed caused by head trauma. That's

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Speaker 2: not just bumping your head, that's being thrown against the

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Speaker 2: floor or hit with an object. That and what we

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Speaker 2: learned about the kidney A cute kidney injury. Now again

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Speaker 2: I'm just a lawyer, but when you have a cute

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Speaker 2: kidney injury, and I don't mean kidney ailment, kidney illness,

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Speaker 2: I mean kidney injury, I've only heard of that from

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Speaker 2: someone getting punched or kicked or beaten and it hits

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Speaker 2: the kidney.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly. And the fact that she's the malnutritions there

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Speaker 8: tells me she's kine, not getting any water, and that's

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Speaker 8: another way of getting kidney disease.

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Speaker 2: Wait, kidney disease a kidney injury don't sound like the

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Speaker 2: same thing to me. Of course, I know nothing but

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Speaker 2: kidney disease, a kidney injury sound like two different things.

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Speaker 9: I agree.

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Speaker 8: I think it was the combination of both. I think

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Speaker 8: she got unfortunately head to the brain where you see

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Speaker 8: all these brain bleaves, and then she was possibly maybe

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Speaker 8: then suffocated because there is some subconjunctival hemorrhage in the eye.

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Speaker 2: Hey, doc, slow down, slow down, sorry, sorry, the conjunctival hemorrhages.

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Speaker 2: Is that the partici in the eye? Is that what

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Speaker 2: that is?

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Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 2: The little bitty blood vessels that can just pop if

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Speaker 2: you have high blood pressure, or if you bend over,

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Speaker 2: or for all sorts of reasons, okay, which is also

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Speaker 2: a sign of asphyxiation. Hey, let me think this through,

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Speaker 2: doctor cashtro where I'm always amazed once I get reminded

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Speaker 2: of where various body parts are, Like you're pancreas, Jackie,

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Speaker 2: it's actually right under right in your chest. I thought

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Speaker 2: I was on your stomach somewhere. I'm using these anatomical

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Speaker 2: terms very loosely, doctor Gastro, So don't get cray on me,

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Speaker 2: But where's the kidney exactly on your body? If I

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Speaker 2: touched if I touched my box, where would I touch

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Speaker 2: the kidney? Where's the kidney?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so reach to your right and left underneath your

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Speaker 8: ribcage in the back and right there's roughly where you'll

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Speaker 8: see the kidney.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right now to Galaysia Krome, chief Communication Officer

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Speaker 2: for Prevent Child Abuse America. I need you now, miss Chrome,

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Speaker 2: tell me what demon from hell would kick a two

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Speaker 2: year old child where doctor Cashta just indicated, like put

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Speaker 2: your hands on your hips and where your ring finger

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Speaker 2: and your index finger are fingers are, that's where your

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Speaker 2: kidneys are. From what I just heard, who would kick

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Speaker 2: a child or be a child right there until her

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Speaker 2: kidney was injured?

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Speaker 10: You know, excuse me, anthey, this is unfortunately, you know,

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Speaker 10: one of the more severe cases that I've heard a really,

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Speaker 10: really long time. What we do know is that the

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Speaker 10: majority of abuse that occurs in the United States is

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Speaker 10: actually neglect. But this rate here obviously has ties to

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Speaker 10: what I heard before was power, right, And so if

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Speaker 10: you start thinking about what someone else's trauma is, and

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Speaker 10: this is not a get out of jail free card,

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Speaker 10: this is simply an opportunity to discuss prevention, right. So

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Speaker 10: that's really the space that I'm here to talk about

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Speaker 10: it today, where it's what happened to this family what

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Speaker 10: happened to these children long before this situation occurred, and

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Speaker 10: what are some things that we as the community should

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Speaker 10: be looking out for to prevent this from happening in

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Speaker 10: the first place. So we all know about adverse childhood

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Speaker 10: experiences and how that can impact parents, who caregivers who

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Speaker 10: eventually have families to look out for. If they've not

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Speaker 10: addressed the challenges and the adverse childhood experiences that they'd

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Speaker 10: had before, then that's what caused. Is the environment for

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Speaker 10: these types of things that happen. Not necessarily say that

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Speaker 10: they are demons or that they don't love their children,

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Speaker 10: but something has gone completely wrong and they have not

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Speaker 10: received the resources that are needed upfront to prevent these

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Speaker 10: types of issues from happening.

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Speaker 2: But it is devastating, Uh, Jolaysia crew. From what I'm

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Speaker 2: getting from you, the people that kick this child in

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Speaker 2: the kidney, I think that star Ford Dead that bind

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Speaker 2: her with duct tape, according to you, have had quote

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Speaker 2: adverse end quote experiences in their childhood that they haven't resolved.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 10: I don't know the full story, so I will say

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Speaker 10: once we go further down the question to ask, I

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Speaker 10: won't say definitively but the question to at least ask

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Speaker 10: is to start there what has gone wrong?

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Speaker 2: Just so you know, I don't give a flying fig,

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Speaker 2: And I'm substituting fig because a quick curson for my twins,

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Speaker 2: I don't care what happened to them, don't care. Something

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Speaker 2: did happen to them, fine, and the statue hadn't run,

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Speaker 2: I'll prosecute their viewser But there is no excuse for

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Speaker 2: what has been done to this child, no excuse. I

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Speaker 2: don't care about anything other than what happened to this

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Speaker 2: two year old girl. And I can't even tell you

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Speaker 2: her name because that's confidential. But I know this didn't

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Speaker 2: happen overnight because this child was starved. Back to you,

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Speaker 2: doctor Castro, how long does it take for a child

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Speaker 2: to end up near death of starvation?

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Speaker 9: You know?

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Speaker 8: Honestly with the child, they have a high metabolism, so

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Speaker 8: it's different from you and I to have more reserves.

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Speaker 8: So honestly, if I had a guestimate, I would say

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Speaker 8: within two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Two weeks, you know what, two weeks at the minimum,

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Speaker 2: two weeks. And you want to tell me this is

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Speaker 2: their first time at the rodeo. B as shall not

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Speaker 2: shall not listen I know you're a defense lawyer now,

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Speaker 2: but try to think back to the good times when

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Speaker 2: you were with Metro Major Case for twenty seven years.

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Speaker 2: If this child has been starved at the least for

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Speaker 2: two weeks, two weeks to the point where she's about

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Speaker 2: to die, this isn't the first time they've abused or

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Speaker 2: starved this child. This is not the first time she's

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Speaker 2: been duct taped. Get real, Shelna. I know you're now

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Speaker 2: a prominent defense attorney at shall Not Law Firm dot com,

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Speaker 2: but just speak the truth. Okay, You're not getting paid

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Speaker 2: your big retainer fees represent all your crack mealers and

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Speaker 2: your killers and molesters. Just tell me the truth, just

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Speaker 2: this time.

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Speaker 11: Oh well, it is a one hundred percent certainty that

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Speaker 11: this is not a new situation. This is a situation

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Speaker 11: that has gone on for some time. This little girl

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Speaker 11: has likely endured abuse through much of her lifetime, most

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Speaker 11: certainly the recent No. I agree with you, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 11: This is at new news around that plack.

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Speaker 2: Guys, there's more. Take a listen, and the first thing

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Speaker 2: I want you to notice is that it took CPS.

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Speaker 2: May they all writ in hell too? Of course, I

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Speaker 2: believe many of them are guided from the goodness of

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Speaker 2: their heart, but somehow children keep ending up dead under

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Speaker 2: their watch. They wait two days, two days with other

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Speaker 2: children in the home by the way, they wait two

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Speaker 2: days to amble on over, take a listen.

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Speaker 3: Two days later, Child Protective Services responds to the apartment

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Speaker 3: and meets with the adults and other children living in

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Speaker 3: the apartment. The biological mother of the two year old

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Speaker 3: girl lives in another state and left her daughter in

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Speaker 3: the care of the child's twenty seven year old cousin,

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Speaker 3: Tanisha to Shay Perkins. Perkins claims the other children living

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Speaker 3: in the apartment often tie up the toddler and themselves.

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Speaker 3: Further investigation reveals that Perkins' boyfriend, twenty three year old

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Speaker 3: Kenry Flucker, and the toddlers seventeen year old aunt Maya

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Speaker 3: jahar bro Magruder all live in the apartment with five

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Speaker 3: other children. The other children appear to be in good health.

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Speaker 2: You know who. This is reminding me of the so

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Speaker 2: called influencer with millions of followers, Ruby Frankie, who did

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Speaker 2: her bizarre This is How to Raise Your Child podcast

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Speaker 2: and people actually bought into it. Eight million people were

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Speaker 2: listening to this woman sounds like her because when she

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Speaker 2: was finally caught, she tried to blame her own children,

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Speaker 2: claiming they were into porn as young as three years old. Really,

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Speaker 2: woman shut up. Not only that, but the dut tape

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Speaker 2: rear said, sugglyhead, take a listen to our cut fourteen

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Speaker 2: about the stars' children.

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Speaker 4: Nine.

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Speaker 11: I'm on the address of your emergency, okay, and the

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Speaker 11: fun umberer calling.

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Speaker 5: From I me, exactly what's happened.

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Speaker 9: I just had a twelve year old boy show up

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Speaker 9: here at my front door asking for help. And he's

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Speaker 9: said he had just came from a neighbor's house, and

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Speaker 9: we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated,

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Speaker 9: he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry, and he's thirsty.

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Speaker 5: He is your door lock.

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Speaker 9: No, I'm sitting outside with him on the front patio,

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Speaker 9: and he asked us to call the police. So he's

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Speaker 9: very afraid and he's twelve years old.

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Speaker 2: The car and the mail caller actually breaks down in tears.

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Speaker 2: Describe me how emaciated the boy is and how he's

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Speaker 2: got duct tape on each ankle and wrists and covered

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Speaker 2: in wounds back to you talked to Castro. When you

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Speaker 2: keep duct taping someone, they ultimately get sores and wounds

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Speaker 2: where the skin gets torn away from the duct tape.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that true, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 8: And then we have a natural barrier, which is our skin,

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Speaker 8: and when you break that skin, even through duct tape,

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Speaker 8: you're going to introduce infections.

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Speaker 2: So this is what we've got. The dishwager Repairment goes in.

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Speaker 2: He finds his child hiding under a blanket. I don't

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Speaker 2: know why she's under the blanket, starving, near death and

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Speaker 2: covered in duct tape. This is what we learn from

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Speaker 2: the other children that Child Protective Services aka defacts. They

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Speaker 2: just decide to let the other children stay there for

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Speaker 2: a couple of days, just test that out. This is

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Speaker 2: what we learn from them.

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Speaker 6: Listen, the other children in the home paint a grim picture.

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Speaker 6: The other children said. The girl sleeps on the floor

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Speaker 6: and regularly removes the tape from her arms, legs, and mouth.

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Speaker 6: The toddler gets popped when she removes the tape, and

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Speaker 6: a lock has been put on the refrigerator to prevent

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Speaker 6: the little one from accessing food. ABC thirteen reports, during

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Speaker 6: an interview with investigators. Perkins's boyfriend tells police he has

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Speaker 6: never seen the toddler's ankles being taped, just her hands.

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Speaker 6: Flucker said the girl would not eat when given food,

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Speaker 6: would then sneak food from the refrigerator, trash can, and pantry,

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Speaker 6: and that her hands were bound to prevent her from

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Speaker 6: doing so.

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Speaker 2: And more from Sidney Sumner.

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Speaker 7: Six year old twins tell police they have seen Perkins

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Speaker 7: and Kenry Flucker duct tape the two year old because

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Speaker 7: she wastes food. One of the twins tells investigators the

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Speaker 7: toddler gets popped if she removes the duct tape, and

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Speaker 7: that Perkins and Flucker allegedly use a belt to whoop

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Speaker 7: the little girl. That their mother instructed them to tell

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Speaker 7: anyone who asks about the duct tape that she and

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Speaker 7: her twin brother had been wrapping each other up.

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Speaker 2: So like Ruby Frankie claiming a three year old was

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Speaker 2: into porn, you have, according to these children, who I

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Speaker 2: find to be some of the best witnesses in all cases.

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Speaker 2: Many people argue they can't recount what has happened, but

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Speaker 2: I counter that with the theory that they don't have

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Speaker 2: the wherewithal to lie, as well as adults. They like

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Speaker 2: the cunning. So this is what I'm gathering from what

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Speaker 2: two six year old twins tell us. That the little

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Speaker 2: two year old gets beaten with a belt if she

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Speaker 2: wastes food, and that the two little six year old

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Speaker 2: twins were instructed to lie, claiming that if asked that

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Speaker 2: the little girl would wrap the little girl and the

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Speaker 2: others would play with duct tape and wrap each other up. Okay,

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Speaker 2: joining me right now, Jason Jensen, out of Salt Lake,

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Speaker 2: private investigator, owner Jensen Private Investigations and co founder of

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Speaker 2: the Cold Case Coalition. You can find Jason at Jensen

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Speaker 2: Private Investigations dot com. Jason, I love and loved putting

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Speaker 2: child witnesses on the stand. I never like to put

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Speaker 2: a child on the stand that has been a victim,

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Speaker 2: but I would do what I had to do to

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Speaker 2: put the devil in jail. You can count on that

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Speaker 2: and another thing, Jensen. While I believe it is traumatic

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Speaker 2: to put a child on the stand and I don't

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Speaker 2: like that, I think years on that, well know, somebody,

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Speaker 2: if not their own parents, somebody took up for them,

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Speaker 2: and somebody put the bad guys behind bars for them.

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Speaker 2: And yes, it comes at a price. The price is

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Speaker 2: them having to testify. Jason Jensen, The first thing I

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Speaker 2: would do is put these children on camera, video their

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Speaker 2: statements and nail it down. I don't think that they're lying.

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Speaker 2: I don't think children normally have the wherewithal to lie

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Speaker 2: the way parents.

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Speaker 12: Do you know, Nancy, you're right about that. I mean,

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Speaker 12: children are resilient. If you put them in that kind

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Speaker 12: of a spooky environment where they're not comfortable, put on

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Speaker 12: the stand in a room with an investigator for an interview,

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Speaker 12: it's temporary. They get over it. They usually I see

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Speaker 12: in the TJC videos they sigh relief when they get

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Speaker 12: to leave. They got whatever on their mind out in

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Speaker 12: the open and they can go on. So yeah, they

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Speaker 12: make the best witnesses.

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Speaker 2: And just thinking about how I would prove this case.

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Speaker 2: How would marshal the evidence? Now? What about the bio

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Speaker 2: mom just passing the little girl off to a relative

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Speaker 2: and literally leaving the state. Take a listen.

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Speaker 3: The mother of the abuse toddler admitted to relinquishing care

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Speaker 3: and custody and control of her daughter to Tanisha Perkins

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Speaker 3: a few months before KHOU reports. Henry Flucker confirmed the

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Speaker 3: girl had been living there a few months, Flucker tells

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Speaker 3: police the toddler's seventeen year old aunt, Maya jahar Bro Magruder,

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Speaker 3: moved in with them about the same time. Flucker blames

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Speaker 3: the abuse and neglect of the toddler on Perkins and Magruder.

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Speaker 2: Back to Nicole Parton, I want to learn more about

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Speaker 2: why this two year old girl was even in that apartment,

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Speaker 2: who was supposed to be taking care of her.

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Speaker 4: Her biological mother had said she couldn't care for her,

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Speaker 4: didn't want her anymore, and had left her in the

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Speaker 4: care of her cousin, who is Tanisha Perkins, the twenty

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Speaker 4: seven year old living in the home. The bio mom

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00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 4: had moved on with her life, moved to another state,

435
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: gotten a job somewhere else, and had relinquished all rights

436
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: and responsibilities of her daughter, leaving her in the care

437
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 4: of this twenty seven year old.

438
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 2: I want to go now to Jlaysia Krome joining US

439
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: Chief Communication Officer Prevent Child Abuse America, Jalaysia, thank you

440
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: for being with us. Got a question for you with

441
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: so I can count three adults living in this home.

442
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: How can one or two of them stand by and

443
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: do nothing when they see the third adult abusing the child.

444
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: Doesn't that make them all part of it?

445
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 10: You know? That's correct. They are all standing around all

446
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 10: they all do have a responsibility to this child, to

447
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 10: this defenseless child. And my concern, as I said before,

448
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 10: that none of these people in this household have the

449
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 10: resources that they need to make this right, to have

450
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 10: fixed this. And I'm not saying again that this is

451
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 10: where we should give a flying fig as far as

452
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 10: it comes out.

453
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, Juli said, what does that mean? They don't

454
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: have the resources they need? This is abuse. This is plain, old, mean, hateful,

455
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: evil abuse, straight from hell. What resource do they need

456
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: to know? They're not supposed to duct tape a baby

457
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: and with whole food till she starves.

458
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 10: They should definitely know that. But if they grew up

459
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 10: watching the same thing, what about this two year old

460
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 10: that almost dies? What's going to happen to her when

461
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 10: she grows up and she's never told and never given

462
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 10: the tools to be a better parent herself when she

463
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 10: grows up, the cycle continues.

464
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 2: Well, I know that I'm talking about this case and

465
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: these adults that did this, and they're all part of it.

466
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 10: They're all part of it. I oh, one hundred percent agree,

467
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 10: one hundred percent agree. I don't know what was going

468
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 10: through their minds, and I don't know why they felt

469
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 10: that this was the right the right way to discipline

470
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 10: a child. But this child almost die as they should

471
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 10: they should.

472
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: I mean, do you really think that they need some

473
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: kind of education uh in in parenting to know you're

474
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: not supposed to starve a two year old and put

475
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: a put a padlog on the on the fridge.

476
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 10: This should have happened long before. But if they were abused,

477
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 10: what if they were abused when they were young things?

478
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 10: This is a mental health issue as well. So the

479
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 10: cycle continues because no one gives a flying fig that

480
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 10: but they've been hurt.

481
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: I got a funny feeling you're gonna keep saying flying

482
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 2: fig because.

483
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 10: You didn't give me a chance to really explain what

484
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 10: was going on. Because at the end of the day,

485
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 10: it doesn't mean that they don't deserve punishment, but we

486
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 10: got to look at what has happened to cause what

487
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 10: in the world would make a child think that this

488
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 10: is this is the way that they're supposed to discipline

489
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 10: a younger person in their family.

490
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: Well, you said this is what would make a child

491
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: saying this was Okay, these aren't children. They're adults, right.

492
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 10: These are adults that, for whatever reason, believe that this

493
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 10: is the way. But at one point they were children,

494
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 10: and so for whatever reason, they didn't get the tools

495
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 10: to understand this is not how you deal with your family,

496
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 10: This is not what you're doing is continuing discycle. So

497
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 10: someone this is James Ham.

498
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just gonna ask you, James, because that

499
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: sounds a lot like the state having to determine motive

500
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: that I'm supposed to say, oh, pitif them they were abused,

501
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: and I don't have any evidence they were abused at all,

502
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: but that's irrelevant in a criminal case, y'all. Not it

503
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: doesn't matter.

504
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 11: I agree one hundred percent. It's not lost on me.

505
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 11: What she is saying that that past abuses can manifest

506
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 11: themselves into that abused person's conduct in current time.

507
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Well, she's right, she's right. I hear her, and she's

508
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: right about that. But I still don't care.

509
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 11: No, I don't either. The resources they had were their

510
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 11: hands in their feet. They could have picked that child

511
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 11: up and left with that child, taken that child to

512
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 11: the police station. They could have called nine on one,

513
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 11: They could have unwrapped that child from douct tape at

514
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 11: any given time. It doesn't matter what resources were there,

515
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 11: were not there. It doesn't matter what parenting skills they have.

516
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 11: It's hard for me to believe that they did not

517
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 11: have a basic common sense or basic morality of right

518
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 11: and wrong to understand that this child is being abused

519
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 11: and is likely going to die if I don't do

520
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 11: something about it.

521
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: To doctor John Delatory, psychologists and mediator. Doctor Delatory, you know,

522
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: have you ever been to the zoo?

523
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 9: Yes?

524
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: Okay, then you've been to the snakehouse? Right. I go

525
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: in the snakehouse and I hate snakes, but I look

526
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: at them because, you know what, there's a big thick

527
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: piece of glass between me and them. So in this case,

528
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued. I'm discussing number one. I'm angry number two,

529
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: and I want justice. A nice long life behind bar

530
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: sentence would start making me feel a little bit better,

531
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Delatory. One thing I'm fascinating with, and I don't

532
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: understand it, is the withholding a food, using food as

533
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: a way to abuse a child. I mean, it's evil,

534
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: but yet cunning. It's I've heard of it, but who

535
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out who even think to do that,

536
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: to put a padlot on the refrigerator.

537
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 5: Well, so when it comes to the food itself, right,

538
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 5: food is both a life giving thing.

539
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 9: Right.

540
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 5: We all need food just as much as we need water, right,

541
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 5: And so I think what happens is they see that

542
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 5: this child is not listening to them, The child isn't

543
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 5: doing whatever it is that they want them to do,

544
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 5: and so there is an aspect of suffering that that

545
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 5: must accompany that's not listening to me, right, because they're

546
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 5: not seeing the two year old as being someone who

547
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 5: clearly doesn't understand the world and clearly needs to be instructed.

548
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 5: They're seeing the two year old as someone that's just

549
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 5: not following the instructions that they are trying to give it.

550
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 5: And because of that, particularly, this not wasting food and

551
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 5: not wasting food is something that, yeah, you shouldn't waste food. However,

552
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 5: a two year old doesn't understand that. But the two

553
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 5: year old does understand when you don't have access to it.

554
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 5: The two year old does understand when it feels bad

555
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 5: because it's hungry, because it's starving, because its body is

556
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 5: literally eating itself in order to get the nutrients it

557
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 5: needs in order to survive, and they watch this happen.

558
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 5: The adults watch this happen, and they think they are

559
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 5: teaching a lesson. But that's not what is happening here.

560
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 5: That's not They aren't teaching a lesson. They've confused what

561
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 5: they thought they were doing with being something that is

562
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 5: actually necessary.

563
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It's a Greece, you.

564
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: Know, doctor Dolatory. I don't understand. As I was talking

565
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: to Jalaysia Krome earlier at Prevent Child Abuse America, the

566
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: adults standing by watching it happen. For all I know,

567
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: they took part. They all took part in it. There's

568
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: the also the unusual factor, which I've seen in so

569
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: many cases, including cases I prosecuted, where there are several children,

570
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: but one child is picked out to be mistreated the most.

571
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: In my case, in the cases I've seen untill the

572
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 2: child dies. But it reminds me of the Holocaust, where

573
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: the guards, the minders stood by and let the abuse

574
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 2: and murder of millions of jeeves happen, and they go, oh, well,

575
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 2: you know, I was just following orders, like that makes

576
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: it okay. It happened. It's not okay. And they are

577
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: just as responsible as the others. And I'm trying to

578
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: understand how in your mind you think it's okay to

579
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: stand by and watch hatred take over an abuse and

580
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: murder occur. James Shellnott, high profile lawyer out of Alabama.

581
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: They all need to be charged with felony child abuse.

582
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: And I think a tempted murder. I think this is

583
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: attempted murder. The child is in twenty four to thirty

584
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: six hours of death, that's attempted murder.

585
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 11: Oh absolutely. You know, how do you lay your head

586
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 11: down at night knowing that there's a child duct taped

587
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 11: in the living room to your own little girl? How

588
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 11: pathetic a a person do you have to be? I'll

589
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 11: tell you when I was a detective and investigated cases

590
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 11: like that, I was always very professional, played it by

591
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 11: the book. But I'll tell you this, when I go

592
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 11: to serve that warrant, it wouldn't hurt my feelings one

593
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 11: bit if I had to assist you in that pair

594
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 11: of handcuffs because you resisted. Because that's the type of demon,

595
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 11: as you said earlier, that is the type of person

596
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 11: who is a just horrible drain, a horrible menace to

597
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 11: society and I have nothing for him.

598
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 9: It's pitiful.

599
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: Guys, if you had not heard of that famous influencer

600
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: Ruby Frankie, I know you've heard of top mom Casey

601
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Anthony and her murdered daughter Kelly. Take a listen our

602
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: cutting nineteen duct tape again.

603
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 13: Doctor jan Garivalia, chief medical officer, set in court that

604
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 13: Kelley Anthony had been put in two plastic bags, then

605
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 13: put in a canvas bag, then thrown behind a rotting

606
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 13: log a couple blocks from her house. According to the doctor,

607
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 13: there were three overlapping pieces of duct tape over the

608
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 13: lower aspect of the face, and that these pieces of

609
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 13: duct tape were the smoking gun that something terrible happened

610
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 13: to Kaylee Anthony.

611
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: In other words, it was no accident that Kelly died

612
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: and this case, the case in chief, reminds me of

613
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: a horrific case we covered out of Arizona. Take a

614
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: listen in our cut twenty one to cheek. John Mason

615
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: basically received a phone call for call service to the

616
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: apartment at six fifty five South Mason Drive.

617
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 14: When officers arrived back to the Saint they eventually made

618
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 14: contact with our suspect.

619
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: They entered the apartment and they located a three.

620
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 14: Year old child inside a black trash bag.

621
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 13: The child had duct tape.

622
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 14: Over her mouth, around her arms, her hands and legs.

623
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: The child was in a terrible condition.

624
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 14: She was covered in pieces, wearing a diaper and t

625
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 14: shirt and the officers were able to remove the duct

626
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 14: tape and the child was transported to the.

627
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: Hospital immediately and more from Chief Chief Masa.

628
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 14: The suspect was interviewed by detectives and confessed to ductating

629
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 14: the child and he said he did it because he

630
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 14: wanted to have sexual encounters with other people that he

631
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 14: had met online and wanted to keep her quiet. He

632
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 14: stated the child belonged to a friend he has known

633
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 14: for a short time, and he later identified the mother.

634
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 14: The suspect was babysitting child while worked, but admitted to

635
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 14: leaving the child for several hours in the apartment while

636
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 14: he was also at work, leaving the child alone.

637
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: So he was babysitting much as in this case, and

638
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: would duct take the baby so he could go have

639
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: sex with other people. Okay, and he actually gave that statement.

640
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: I'm very confused. Let me go back to Jalaysia. Krome

641
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: joining us from prevent child abuse America. You know, isn't

642
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: it the most bizarre thing when child abusers give their

643
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: reasoning and it's completely incriminating, but they think it explains

644
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: it all away.

645
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 10: And Grace like you, like you all have said, they're

646
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 10: just unfortunately, there's no excuse and they're not going to

647
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 10: be anything that one can say to make it right

648
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 10: or make the circumstances any lesson just it's so sad.

649
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,479
Speaker 10: I mean, it's really sad. And and like I said,

650
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 10: you know, it's unfortunate that we can't have some sort

651
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 10: of mer looking glass beard to see what's gonna come,

652
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 10: what's gonna happen. We don't know, we don't know why

653
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,959
Speaker 10: these things are happening. There's no science to explain exactly why.

654
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 10: But at the end of the day, yeah, trying to

655
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 10: come up with reasons after the fact. No, let's get

656
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 10: ahead of it. It's prevent it. But I fully agree,

657
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 10: and I hear what you all are saying, and no

658
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 10: hearing these stories or hearing people try to defend it

659
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 10: and defend.

660
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: The Yeah, I think that's what they're doing. They're trying

661
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: to rationalize it. Once everybody says, hey, this is horrible,

662
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: you did a bad thing. Then they start talking. Jason

663
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: Jensen joining me private investigator. You can find him at

664
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: Jensenprivate Investigations dot com.

665
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 15: Weigh in, Jason, you know, and you know as well

666
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 15: as anyone here on this panel, there is no substitute

667
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 15: for a mother's love and for the surrogates to be

668
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 15: doing what they've done.

669
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 12: It really strikes a vision with me. How you can

670
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 12: look out drag on the street and you see a

671
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 12: straight dog. Straight dogs are foraging for food. They knock

672
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 12: down trash cans and things of that nature. That's what

673
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 12: they're mad about this little girl doing, because they deny

674
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 12: her food and then she goes ventures off try to

675
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 12: feed herself and she gets punished for it. That's just wrong.

676
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 12: There's no compassion.

677
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: Another bizarre fact, Jason, is how often neighbors and employees

678
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: find the children in these horrible circumstances that the abuser,

679
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: I guess, thinks it's okay and they don't care if

680
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 2: people find out. Take a listen to this story out

681
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: of Houston, Our Cut twenty four.

682
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 6: A maintenance worker at a Houston apartment complex, tasked with

683
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 6: checking out a leaky air conditioner on an apartment, finds

684
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 6: a boy with duct tape over his eyes and around

685
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 6: his hands. The worker calls the apartment manager, who then

686
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 6: calls police. Officers arrive to check out the story of

687
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 6: the six year old with duct tape and find a

688
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 6: one year old girl suffering from burns to her hands

689
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 6: as well. Interviewing the four women who live in the

690
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 6: home with the children, police find out that, as Stephanie

691
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 6: Garcia and Emily Zeniga say, they duct tape the boy's

692
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 6: hands because he had been fighting at school and they

693
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 6: were trying to control the.

694
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: Boy, coming up with lies and stories rationalizing what they

695
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: have been doing. I've got a whole file of adults

696
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: using duct tape on shouldern. But I want to go

697
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: back to Nicole Parton, who who is really an angel

698
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: on Arth. She's not just crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

699
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: She has ten children, many of whom she has fostered

700
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: and adopted. And we were talking Nicole about how very

701
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: often you'll see abusive parents single out one child and

702
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: end up like killing the child while the others seem

703
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: to be fine.

704
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: Yes, and this hits home for me my now adopted daughter.

705
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 4: She's ten now, but at the age of three, her

706
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 4: birth mother had targeted her. She had other siblings who

707
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 4: were well cared for, but for whatever reason, the mother

708
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: targeted my daughter. She abused her, she neglected her, wouldn't

709
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 4: feed her, and finally just abandoned her. Dropped her off

710
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: at the Miami Airport. She was three years old, just

711
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 4: left her there. My daughter still remembers being treated horribly,

712
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 4: being left, having food withheld from her. She had scars

713
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: on her arms where she was burned and taped. She too,

714
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 4: was taped to keep her from fire food. But fortunately

715
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 4: today she's loved and she's cared for, and she's mine.

716
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: This little girl, we believe weighed seventeen to nineteen pounds

717
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: at age two. Nicole. What's next in this case?

718
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 10: We wait.

719
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 4: They're being held on this half million dollar bond between

720
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: the three of them. These charges are against them, and

721
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 4: hopefully justice will be served. They can blame each other,

722
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 4: but at the end of the day, they're all responsible.

723
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 4: They all knew what was happening in that home.

724
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: Kenry Fluckers, Deshae Perkins, and Miam McGruder rot in hell

725
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: after a nice long stint behind bars. I imagine you

726
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: out on the yard looking up at the barbed wire

727
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: and I hope you remember why you're there, Goodness,