WEBVTT - Leonard Cohen's Legacy with Adam Cohen: Thanks for the Dance 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:14.360 Pushkin. I first discovered Leonard Cohen, like most people, through 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.960 a song Hallelujah, a beautiful and complex song with a 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.160 ton of verses. But I grew to love him after 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.919 discovering his early albums, full of nylon string guitars and 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.760 songs much more succinct than Hallelujah. The Leonard never got 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.639 quite the amount of attention that his peers did, Like 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.400 Bob Dylan and Paul Simon, he was every bit the 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.800 poet they are. Cohen died in twenty sixteen, less than 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.199 a month after the release of his last album. It 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.440 was a project recorded in his modest duplex in the 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.880 mid Wiltshire neighborhood of Los Angeles. Leonard made the album 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.120 with his son, Adam Cohen. It wasn't meant to be 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.440 his last work, but it felt like a fitting end 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.040 until this turned up. While morning his father's death, Adam 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.680 took some of the poetry Lenard had recorded and set 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.160 it to music, And now, very unexpectedly, we have a 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.400 brand new album from Leonard co called Thanks for the Dance. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.520 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:17.080 I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here. You can 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.440 listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.800 on our playlist, which you can find a link to 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.440 in the show notes for licensing reasons. Each time a 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.840 song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.319 All right. Enjoyed the episode. Rick Reuben knew Leonard Cohen 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.759 for about a decade before it is passing. Afterwards, Leonard's 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.280 son Adam reached out to Rick wanted to tell him 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.400 a story about his father, the one you're about to hear. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.360 When's the last time we saw each other? I was 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.560 trying to remember. It feels like so long, ill go 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.800 all of it. I was trying to remember. I mean, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:01.800 I know the feeling that I was left with in 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.080 that story that my dad always used to tell about you, 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:08.040 and you became the brunt of a of almost like 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.920 a punchline. But now the whole thing's dissipated into a 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:17.280 general tapestry and feeling of you know, I guess a mix, 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:25.000 a cocktail, a blend of maybe inaccuracies and feelings mixed together. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.560 But I want to try to summon if it's appropriate, Yes, 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.040 the story about you. Hey, tell me the story as 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.640 you remember it. It has something to do with his 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:45.840 general feeling about himself not being a stallion in the 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.760 race of show business. And by that I mean he 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.280 would refer to other guys he came up with, whether 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.880 it's Christopherson or Bayez or Janie or Dylan or all 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.160 the cats that are coming up in his era as 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.840 knowing what to do. He would say, these guys know 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.680 what to do. All I've ever known is that a 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.200 black in a page. You would say, that's where you 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.320 have to understand that context before it. Rick Rubin enters 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.880 into the conversation. So then then the question is two 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.240 guys sitting at a table and some music industry related 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.400 question emerges, and he says, I don't know, Adam. I 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.600 mean they are like we should ask Rick, you know, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:31.560 like Rick Rubin would know this, And so very quickly 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:38.680 that morphs into any question that we have ask Rick, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.160 ask Rick. You know, I come to him with a 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.440 genuine question, Dad, you know, what should I do about 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.240 this if it's music related? And then it turns a 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.560 new punchline. He said, you know, Adam, you know what 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.720 I'm about to say, ask Rick Rubin, And of course 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.120 you know I hadn't met you know, It's so funny. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.560 I get and as I said, I didn't know any 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.160 of this till you told me this after your dad passed. Yeah, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:03.720 And so I felt like I had to track you 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.160 down on the off chance he was right. You know, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.560 I have to ask Rick, and I have subsequently asked 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.560 you on many occasions, and you've proven right every time. Wow. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.040 So thank you pretty good in my pleasure. It's an 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:19.400 amazing story. It makes me laugh every time to tell 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:24.279 me about the new your dad's newest project. I know 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:30.520 it's not incredible, it's so cool. I suppose that the 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.840 most gratifying part, other than the fact that it wasn't 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.600 a humiliating disaster, and the fact that it's resonant and 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.359 that I think it's beautiful and people are responding to 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:47.560 it so favorably, I think the headline is the person 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.320 after person who hears it. One of the most gratifying 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.880 things that is said of it time and time again 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.520 is that they feel like, oh my god, Leonard Cohen 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:02.160 is is still here. He's speaking to us still and 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:08.640 with this message in tow with this beautiful offering and 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.080 this command of language, this inimitable gift that he's always had, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.800 still having it. Of course, I could go into detail 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.960 because I have to tell me about the specifics of 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.560 the making of it, like how did it how did 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:27.200 the idea come start? From the beginning, Well, the first 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.680 thing that happened was my old man passed away, and 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.240 I live about seven hundred and fifty meters down the 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:41.440 same street where you visited. And I'm left with this 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:46.000 notion that one of the ways in which I can 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.240 visit with him so palpably as opposed to so many 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.200 other people who lose a parent or someone. I've got 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:57.240 all these recordings and they are the sum of his 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.240 being in many instances. They are this some of what 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.880 he practiced to be in this world, and they are 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:12.080 literally his words, his voice, and recordings. And at one 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:17.880 point I had of desperation and a tiny pinch of courage. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.360 I dared to open up two sessions in my backyard 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:30.640 and I just wanted to sit with him. I missed him, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:35.000 and it was a way of of conversing, of remaining 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:40.159 in dialogue with the guy. That was the beginning. And 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.520 then something really unexpected and magical happened. A record is 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.440 not a fete complete, you know. Even good songs do 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:54.599 not result in good recordings. Even in your hands. It 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.600 doesn't matter if the artist and the song and the 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.800 producer and the musicians. It is not a guarantee of 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.320 any anything. And so the fact that that a record 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.360 actually emerged, that's finished, and that's resonant, and that's emotional, 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.520 and that's truthful, it's not in my hands. I don't 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:14.320 have the qualifications to do that. It emerged and it's 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.480 it's out of our control. Yeah, And so I have 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.040 two strikes against me for this record in terms of 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.680 my actual true participation. You know, One is that I 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:33.840 neither have great and esteemed credentials. And two, this wasn't 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.640 my record. You know, I wasn't trying to make my choices. 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.040 I was trying to at all times because of this 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.000 conversation that I was in, I say, like, Dad, would 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.000 do you like this? Is this what you would do? 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:57.320 Is this truthful? And so it eliminated this tragic layer 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.040 that we often impose on ourselves of doubt. It was 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.840 I don't have to consult myself. All I have to 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.120 do is consult him. He was very clear about what 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.720 he didn't didn't like. And that's the great advantage that 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.080 I had over people who are like you for example, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.280 I knew what he hated, of course, you know, you 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.720 know what's interesting. Never thought about this before. But for 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.640 any other artist this would be a more difficult process. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:32.079 But because Leonard's music always essentially started with the poetry 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.119 and that was the basis of the greatness of the songs, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.800 the heavy lifting was already done. So this is the 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:47.280 best example of being able to make something really truthful 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:53.280 to him, where the participation that he already did really 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:58.080 is the key. Yeah, I was thinking that on the 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.840 drive up here. Know, there's a there's a song called 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.920 the Goal, which is it's literally no more than a 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:11.120 minute long. And his reading, which had no music, it 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:16.160 was just a reading. His reading sounds like a Thesbian 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.439 from the other side of the world. The command of language, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:25.320 the cinematic transport of quality. And then to end, you know, 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.520 by saying, and no one to follow, nothing to teach 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:39.199 except that the goal falls short of the reach. So beautiful, amazing, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:47.680 it's amazing. I wholeheartedly agree. It's so wonderful that that exists, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:55.439 and it's so true. What a truthful position that he had. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.199 I can see him sitting in his little fedor and 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.760 in his suit, staring at his window, returning a neighbor's 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:09.240 smile with that sense of defeat. But at the same time, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.800 the word defeat to people has this binary quality. To 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.880 most people, it's measured against winning, for example. But to him, 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.640 it was part of this thesis that he had that 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.800 his whole life was about, which is brokenness, broken hallelujah, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:31.160 the crack and everything, the whole notion that defeat and 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:37.160 imperfection and brokenness was the fabric of the experience. And 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.520 then instead of just you know, having a plaintiff assertion 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.440 that the real generosity was to write about it in 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.000 a way that you hadn't considered with generosity, with voluptuousness, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.520 with inventiveness, and then you know, you could, on top 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.160 of it said, it's to a melody, you know, like 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.959 a like what nicotine is in a cigarette, Like it's 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.360 a nicotine delivery system. He was giving you, like a 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.200 transcendent delivery system. That's what he was trying to do. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.160 Every time he would hate that I said that, But 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.959 that's what I think he was trying to do. What 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.439 was it like growing up with him, I'm trying to 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:19.800 spend with him in through childhood. Yeah, I don't know 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:25.440 that that's a question that I can answer in a 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:32.960 complete manner, you know. I mean the immediate answer is 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.040 I don't know, because I've only had that, so I 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.680 have nothing else to measure it against. That it was 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:50.520 incredible now that he's gone, and that I consult him 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.000 more as a man than a parent, and I see 0:11:54.080 --> 0:12:03.199 him as a as a lifetime of choices, fantastic, altruistic, amazing, bizarre, eccentric, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:12.960 devoted religious seeker like choices, I find him ever more remarkable. 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.600 And the fact that he was able to, you know, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.680 remain in his children's lives despite it not really being 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.720 an appetite of his at the beginning. But for me, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:30.640 there was this torture of what he called the family business. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.040 Now he could call it the family business, and he 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.560 would say all the Cohen boys and the family business, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.200 and you know, but if I dared say the family business, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.000 you know, he would say, like, what do you mean 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.200 family business? You know, you're you know. It was it 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:52.000 was this endless geyser of support and understanding. I mean, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.480 he would lean over my he would lean over my 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.959 notebook and give me suggestions. He would, you know, he 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:58.920 would say, this is what you got to do. You know, 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.720 although you gotta ask Rick because I don't know. But 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.400 and at the same time, you know, I remember I 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.320 when in Instagram came around and I my handle was 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.280 his commander Cohen and he found out about it. So 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.680 you're stealing my identity, I said, Dad, what are you 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.680 talking about? You know, like you were saying it laughingly? 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.880 That's the thing. No, you know, he was. He was like, 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.200 for example, there wasn't there was an article in which, 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:37.520 you know, I had said like kind of something like, look, 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.840 there's no one like Leonard Cohen, but I'm like a 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.000 certainly on the mainland, but I'm the closest thing to it, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.000 if you know, we're talking about way off shore, distant 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.040 little you know, distant little eyelets. And he said, what 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.960 are you talking about? Your the closest thing to Leonard Cohen? 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.240 You know, this is the kind of I don't know. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.760 I don't know whether he was as irritated as the 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:09.520 tone indicated, but again it was also accompanied by this, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:11.680 you know, Dad, I quit, I don't want to be 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.440 your producer. This is ridiculous, said Dad. He says, Adam, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.079 where are you going? I can't do this without you, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:22.840 you know. So there was this wonderful and constant contradiction. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.600 You know, like I referred to his music one time 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.920 in a magazine as mytho romantic, and I thought, oh 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.760 my god, this is so perfect. It really is mytho romantic. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.720 I mean, you know, the idea that that woman is 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.640 God and God is woman, and and and you know, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:45.440 the be the the cathedral that his words are echoing 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.000 in of, and that he built stone by stone, word 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.600 by word. And he says, he says, remind me to 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.240 reduce your uh to a couple of words, kid, you know, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:57.880 and I'm like, Dad, what are you talking about it? 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.920 You know, mytho romantic. It's good. And then you know, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.480 two Sabbath dinners later, he's like my son who coined 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.960 the term mytho romantic, putting his arm around me. This 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.680 is this is crazy and exactly. And of course none 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.720 of it was malicious, and I didn't. I never felt 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.520 like it was in an episode of succession where I 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.240 was gonna, you know, like he was gonna try to 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.080 kill me. But given the modesty, it goes back to 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.040 your original question, which was, like, what was it like 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.120 living with him? He was so modest, he was so 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:28.760 down on earth, I mean, this is a guy who 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.520 lived in a an apartment and I drove a nineteen 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:39.080 eighty four Nissan Pathfinder whose battery need to be jumped 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.680 every morning, you know. I mean, yes, he did go 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:48.520 through a five thousand dollar can of caviar, you know, 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.000 and in the same afternoon, and he did have a 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:57.680 propensity for Hebrew national kosher salami. But it was this 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:04.120 elegant old world man who I think the reason I 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.640 stumbled in answering you earlier was because it provoked such 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.520 a feeling. And the feeling is this, he had so 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:17.320 many distinguishing characteristics that I wished I could find in 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:25.080 myself that it was never oppressive, but it was unachievable, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:30.560 unachievable for most anybody, for sure. But he liked you, though, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.720 and often said things of that nature about you. To 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.480 me incredible, Yeah, but you know what I mean. I mean, 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.640 we're talking about a kind of larger than lifeness. And 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.720 at the same time, he was this little jew who 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.720 wrote the Bible, you know. Yeah, can you talk a 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.560 little bit about his spirituality? Not in a way he 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.080 would approve of as you saw it your perspective. I 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.280 think he was a seeker. I think he just had 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.800 an appetite. You know, if I was to two cent 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.080 psychoanalyze him, i'd i'd say, a guy who loses his 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.359 father at the age of nine years old is always 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.439 looking for something, and in this case it was the 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:22.439 archetypal man, the source of strength and wisdom. And although 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.080 he found pillars of that strength and wisdom within certain 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.399 segments of Judaism, he also found it in Christianity and 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:34.399 Catherine Tata and in several masters that he followed along 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.639 the way, and in wine, and in women, and in 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.840 song and in listen. He met my mother while he 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.600 was in scientology for a brief moment with el Ron Hubbard, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.960 I mean, anything, anything goes if it's got a little 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:55.640 bit of a buzz speed, absinthe, medical marijuana, whatever. Yeah. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.240 I remember him always offering absinthe whenever I would see him. Yeah, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:04.239 he liked I Yeah, he loved it and didn't have 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.920 to be with a substance. He just loved to let 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:15.439 go of that fascining, that oppressive fascinating that we that 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.960 we do almost involuntarily to the center of ourselves, which 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:24.240 is not even a very pleasant place to be. Remember 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.080 asking him if he if he read any of the 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:35.600 newer poets, and he said that he only reads spiritual texts. Now, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.840 he doesn't look at anything. He's not interested in anything 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:47.600 beyond spiritual texts. That was interesting. Yeah, I didn't follow 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.119 too closely what he was reading other than what he 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:55.439 would tell me, and there was a I think he's again, 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.159 these are all admissions that I'm having trouble making, because 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.560 you know, I sort of feel like he would say, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.919 Jesus Adam, you're incorrigible. I mean, I don't demystify me. 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.879 I've spent my whole life putting veils up. But I 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:17.320 think he had forfeited reading for the irresistible ease of 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:22.119 online publications of lectures online. And I know that he 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:27.360 was following some pretty wacky folks, you know, from from 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:32.360 rabbis and seeks to Hindu gurus, and you know, he 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:37.320 was deep, deep into listening to people speaking. Yeah, he 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.359 invited me to see Rabbi Findley with him several times. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.840 I've still have not yet done it. Still, let's go, 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.360 let's go, let's go one of these days. He's He's 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:54.320 a beautiful, robust, interesting, charismatic character. Ex marine from Irish 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:59.280 descent who became incredibly versed and and all things Jewish, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.560 but with a with a really modern and moderate bent. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.880 Very cool that after the break will debut a song 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:17.120 from Lennon Cohen's new album, Thanks for the Dance. We're 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.000 back with Adam Cohen. Should we talk a little bit 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:26.400 about the the album before this one, the last one 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.040 he was present for. Well, that was beautiful for me, 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:35.479 and not just because the record turned out beautifully and 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.440 all that my father passed away only three weeks after 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.080 it came out. He did get to, you know, when 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.080 he played it for you came over to the house, 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.560 or when he played it for people whose opinion he 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.359 was seeking, or with whom he just wanted to share 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.280 the music, and then eventually the world that that a 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.360 collect you know, this is where it's He was such 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.600 an unset, intimental guy that I almost feel like I'm trespassing. 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.000 But for me, it was sentimental to be summoned to 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:13.000 work with my father in whose footsteps I tried with 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:22.480 clumsiness to follow, to go from basically glorified coffee boy, 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.800 you know, in the basement of the building, to ending 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.040 up in the penthouse making boardroom decisions with the boss 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.080 except the Boss was in a medical chair, you know, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:39.560 in his living room in mid Wilshire. To to actually 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:45.320 having this resonant music, to to wrestling with the Master 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:51.919 and and not getting creamed. And in fact, you know, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.320 when another thing that when you came up in conversation, 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.960 you know, and and and pardon me for the oversimplified, 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.760 but when when he would say, you know, Rick or 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.840 or Don Was or Dan Lan, they want they want 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.040 me to go back, They want me to they want 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:13.560 me to literally regress to making you know, an old 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.879 Leonard Cohen album with just nylon string guitars and stuff like. 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:18.720 I don't want to do that, you know, like I'm 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:23.399 not a museum piece. I'm not even particularly nostalgic. But 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:27.720 of course I believe that you were right, and and 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:34.080 that that desire for Leonard Cohen to tickle that and 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.920 evoke that sense that we have in our mind's eye 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:42.120 of what Leonard Cohen is not just not just spiritually, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.680 not just lyrically, but also sonically in terms of the 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.600 architecture that accompanies him was such a strong desire. And 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:58.359 when he finally was weak enough to relent and allow 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.960 that just for a second, especially with this his son 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:11.080 to have that nylon string guitar come back to quiet 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:16.119 the background vocals and excavate enough space for him in 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:22.240 the verses so that the narratorship was unchallenged and they 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:26.200 could go back to that other union that he had created, 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.600 which is at Yin and Yang, where he has this 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:34.720 masculine baritone narrator narratorship and then there's this incredible generous 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:39.719 complicitness from the female backgrounds. So there's this union and 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:44.800 this is an architecture that he helped excavate, so to 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.879 restore that. But at the end of his life, with 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:53.399 that gravity, with that somberness, with that sharpness, with that 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.600 courage to go into the darkness and come back with 0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.560 a little, a little parcel of truth that he had, 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.199 it was incredibly outifying, you know, and touching for me. 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:10.480 And you mentioned his medical chair. When I came to 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:14.959 visit him, he literally looked like a king in the throne. 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:21.520 It was unbelievable. He was so elegantly dressed as always, yes, 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:26.280 but so beautiful and sitting in this grand chair in 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:30.400 this small space. Yeah, it really took my breath away. 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.439 Every time I visited him, it was always, it was 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.720 always thrilling for me, but maybe even more so than 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:40.719 and none of us. I mean, I certainly didn't know 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:43.000 that he was going anytime soon, because we were already 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.120 talking about what he was going to do next. It's 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:47.960 like he already told me he was excited. He was 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:56.000 writing for the next album, which is which is now happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.719 he was living you know. I often said to my 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:03.840 friend here Michael again mixed and recorded both that record 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:05.800 and this one. You know, I said, like, you know, 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.160 he's staying alive for this. This is the only thing 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:14.200 he's living for. And often, unfortunately that statement was made, 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:18.960 or that declaration was was uttered when we were going nowhere, 0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.359 and it just felt like he was stalling. And it 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:26.159 was like, Dad, we get it. When you finished this record, 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.679 you're gonna you're gonna let go, But only when you 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:31.240 finished the work. He was a pit bull at the 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:34.440 sleeve of this mission, whether it was blackening pages or 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.480 finishing a lyric and then refinishing it, you know. But 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:43.800 it was this indelible and very clear sense that he 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.000 was living for the work. That's all he was living, 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.280 and that was that was why when he played me 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:53.640 the new finished work, The first thing I said was, so, 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:56.480 what's the next song going to be? Like? What the 0:25:56.920 --> 0:25:59.119 you know, have you started on the next album? Yet 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.520 knowing that he needed that, Yeah, and knowing that we 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:06.560 want to hear that it's good for everybody. Did he 0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:09.399 did he do that thing that he did he sometimes 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.800 we do almost like a magician with a card trick. 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:18.080 Did he dispense on you lyrics that he was working on? Yeah? 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.080 Wasn't that just magical? Yeah? I mean one of the 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:24.280 things I missed the most is, you know, dropping by 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:28.239 and having him without a tell a prompter. I mean, 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:31.800 we're talking about a man who is literally swimming in 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.719 Tom's and Tom's and Tom's of not just words, but 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:41.360 like heavy con dentse and delicious language, and for him 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:44.120 to pull him out, you know, and it doesn't matter 0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:47.280 whether it's pulling out Blake or Shakespeare or his own work, 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:53.320 the lucidity and the sharpness right to the end. But 0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:56.199 then to hear the deliciousness of a concoction that he was, 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:58.919 you know, in the in the throes of you know, 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:02.840 wasn't that it? Isn't that just a delicious number? Believably 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:06.359 unbelievably thrilling and I'm sure over the years there were 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.680 many that you got to hear that maybe never came 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:11.800 to Well, you know, it's funny you say that, because 0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:15.840 on this record I had to beg him. I said, Dad, 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.679 you know that song Puppets, just just speak it. I 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:22.000 know you, I've known you are not co signing. You 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:24.800 don't believe that there's music that exists for this, or 0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:29.520 Night of Santiago, or there's several others where I said, 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:34.480 just just read it, read it to a to a metronome. Yes, 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:37.720 we'll figure that out later, but don't not speak this 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:42.560 into a microphone. Yes, And that's how delicious some of 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.280 those moments were. You know, Yeah, there's some unfortunately I 0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:49.919 didn't get. In fact, the last song on this album, 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:56.359 it's called Listen to the Hummingbird. And we were done 0:27:56.720 --> 0:27:59.919 with a record and Michael and I were in Berlin 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:03.679