WEBVTT - Talkin’ Politics: Threatening a war crime is still a war crime 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome to Talking Politics. I'm your host, Si Cup. What 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.799 a wild week it's been. I mean I don't remember 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:11.360 a week that hasn't been wild, but this one's been 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:12.360 particularly wild. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:13.440 Let's go through it. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.960 We started off on Easter Sunday with President Trump posting 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.840 the following profane message on. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.360 His truth social for all the world to see. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.240 Tuesday will be power plant Day and bridge Day, all 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:30.160 wrapped up in one. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:31.000 In Iran. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.320 There will be nothing like it. Open the fucking straight, 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.160 you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.640 Just watch Praise be to Allah. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.599 That's a real That's a real thing that the President 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:52.479 of the United States posted on his social media. Now, 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.200 there's so much in that post that's alarming, obviously, but 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.240 promising to commit war crimes, you know, isn't something that 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:05.040 presidents usually just come out and say before they do them. Well, 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.000 if that wasn't bad enough, on Monday, he threatened to 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.040 run again, sounding very much like a cross between a 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.959 Sith lord and Andrew dice Clay. He wrote, a whole 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.920 civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.520 I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.120 However, now that we have complete and total regime change 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.720 where different, smarter and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:31.480 revolutionarily wonderful can happen. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.280 Who knows what the fuck? 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.480 He gave it Ron an eight pm deadline on Tuesday 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:44.000 night to open the straight or else, and then about 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.080 two hours before that deadline, Trump announces he's reached a 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:53.640 quote double sided ceasefire with Iran, which I guess is 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.960 his way of saying both parties will adhere to it, which, yep, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.600 that's understood. That's what a ceasefire is, two parties agreeing 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.680 to stop shooting for a time being. But like whenever 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.000 he talks about war, it's always it always sounds like 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.000 he just discovered a new war or a new word 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.280 or a new concept, Like someone just told him there's 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.360 this thing called a ceasefire and we can ask for one, 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.480 and he's like, oh, do both. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.399 Sides agree to it? So it's like double sided cool. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.680 Yes, a double sided seasfire anyway, With plans to wipe 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.600 out an entire civilization on hold for now, Trump said 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.280 he's agreed to suspend the bombing in attacks on Iran 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:37.959 for a period of two weeks. 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:39.680 He wrote the. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.880 Reason for doing so is that we have already met 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:46.720 and exceeded all military objectives and are very far along 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.720 with a definitive agreement concerning long term peace with Iran 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:55.480 and peace in the Middle East. This isn't relevant, but 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.400 I'd like you to know that Trump capitalized the first 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:02.320 letter of the words agreement and long term for no 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:03.160 apparent reason. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:04.200 I just find that amusing. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.520 So with peace and victory declared, I guess we can 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.000 all breathe a huge sigh of relief and move on 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:16.240 with our lives, knowing that this excursion was a huge success. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.720 The world's a safer place. America got what it wanted. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:23.680 Right well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.600 but not exactly. The so called double sided ceasefire that 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.600 Trump bought into so just a bluff by Iran. 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:33.359 He bought into it. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.760 It lasted mere hours, Iran's Levon oil refinery was hit, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.600 and a word on whether that was Israel or US, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.920 of course, just silence. Iran has continued to strike Gulf 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:48.800 Arab states including Kuwait, Bahrain, Uae, Israel is intensified strikes 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.600 and Lebanon, with Israel and JD Vans both saying Lebanon 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.080 and Hezbala weren't. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:53.960 Included in the ceasefire. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.680 Our supposed Pakistani mediator disagrees with that. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.560 It's such a mess and we don't even know who 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:04.080 to believe. 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.440 Traffic in the Strait remained negligible, with reports that Iran 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.920 briefly opened the Strait of Hormuz as directed by President Trump, 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:17.719 and then closed it in response to Israeli strikes. Oil 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.000 and gas prices have come down, but still remain significantly 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.800 higher than they were before the war. We've retrieved none, 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.880 none of the one thousand pounds of enriched uranium that 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:32.080 was supposedly obliterated by US in our strikes last year. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.080 It's still under twenty feet of rubble waiting, I guess 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.279 for Iranians to dig it up and then start, you know, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:38.120 enriching it again. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.520 There's been no regime change. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.320 The same guys are running it today that we're running 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:46.159 it a month ago. So, in other words, other than 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:54.120 degrading Iran's military somewhat, we've accomplished nothing, well, nothing good anyway. 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.479 Here's what we have accomplished. Global energy prices are up, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:04:59.839 our allies are rattled. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.279 The Gulf States are. 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.240 Being bombed, Iran sees no point in taking Trump seriously 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.680 or doing what he says, because they don't respect him 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.520 at all. And the president of the United States has 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.400 already committed a war crime just by threatening to commit 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:15.039 a war crime. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.600 So I'm sure you're asking the same question that I am. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.640 What are Republicans doing in response to Trump's illegal and 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.440 ill advised war. What are they doing about his messing 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.599 with the markets, his threats to leave NATO, his threats 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.800 to commit war crimes, his failure to get anything meaningful 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.919 out of a war that's already seen US casualties. What 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:40.960 are they doing about his decision to ignore the issues 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.839 that matter most to voters, like lowering inflation and the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.680 cost of goods. What are you doing about his obvious 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:51.440 signs of cognitive failure. I'm so glad you asked nothing. Nothing, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.280 not a thing. They're not doing one thing about it. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:53.680 Nothing. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.039 Of the fifty three Republicans currently in the Senate and 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.960 the two hundred and nineteen Republicans currently in the House, 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.640 guess how many have come out to condemn Trump's threat 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:12.240 to end to civilization? Four four, that's it, four Republicans 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:12.960 in all of Congress. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.120 Both houses had. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.200 The courage to say what should be obvious and easy, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:19.680 which is that the president of the United States shouldn't 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:20.799 be threatening to end to civilization. 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:24.760 There are more obvious and easy. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.360 Things to say, like the President of the United States 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:27.920 doesn't know how to get us out of a war 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.240 that he started. And President of the United States is 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.479 an incompetent fool, and the President of the United States 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.719 went to war to distract us from this terrible economy, 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.160 and the Epstein files. You could also say all of 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.800 those things very easily because they're obvious. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.760 But no, they're totally silent. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.800 Goose stepping along as Trump self destructs and tries to 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:54.360 take America down with him. What profiles encourage from this crowd, Right, 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.640 the guy is a lame duck, Like, how hard would 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.400 it be to say, it's time to take our country back, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.000 it's time to do our jobs again, it's time to 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:11.000 reign in this obviously compromised president who's threatening nuclear war. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.040 Shouldn't be hard and yet nothing silence, cowardice. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.160 No Democrats for their part, well, they're weighing their options 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.080 and being in the minority, none. 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.320 Are particularly good or feasible. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.200 Talking about impeachment hearings, and that would be a purely 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:28.480 political exercise, and. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.400 Trust me, one that Maga is dying for. 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.440 They'd love to be back on defense, where they and 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.840 Trump can play poor put upon victims again. They would 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.680 love the distraction and time suck that impeachment would create. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.600 They'd love the news media to focus on something other 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:53.320 than Trump's abject failures. They are hoping for impeachment Democrats 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.760 should be wary of that. What about the twenty fifth 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.520 Amendment that allows for the involuntary removal of a president 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.720 during his term sort of And we're going to get 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.800 into the details of that with my next guest after 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.680 the break. But twenty fifth Amendment is tough too, because 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.400 the process requires the vice president and a majority of 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.040 the cabinet to declare the president unfit, and then Congress 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.360 needs to confirm the removal with two thirds of a 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.800 vote if the president disputes it. Now, considering jd. Vance 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:28.240 has abandoned everything he once stood for and I mean everything, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.280 just to lick Trump's boots, I doubt we're going to 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:37.559 get jd Vance to turn on the president. And considering 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.280 Trump's acting ag Todd Blanche said that he'd thank the 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.160 President and tell him I love you, sir. If he 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.760 were fired. I don't think you're going to get this 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:53.360 cabinet to turn on him either. So what can the 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:54.440 legislative branch do? 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:54.800 Well. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.720 It isn't as sexy as impeachment or the twenty fifth Amendment, 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.680 but it's something if Republicans suddenly to wake up to 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:05.360 their sworn oaths and duties as lawmakers. First, they should 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.079 vote down Trump's ask for two hundred billion dollars in 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:13.679 supplemental appropriations to fund continued war operations. They should put 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.120 conditions on future funding, like no boots on the ground 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:21.680 or nuclear threats, whatever they deem necessary. They should invoke 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.720 the War Powers Resolution and for so withdrawal of troops 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.599 if we get to that point, and they can and 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.880 should pass new laws restricting the first use of nuclear 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:37.839 weapons without a congressional mandate. They could also hold people 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.000 like Marco Rubio and Pete Hegseth accountable with public hearings 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.960 to find out once and for all, and on the record, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.840 what our mission is in Iran, what was our reason 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.920 for going in? Like get on the record, because we've 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.280 hat Telsea Gabbert d and I on the record saying 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.120 there was no intel of an. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.040 Imminent threat from Iran. That's on the she's under oath. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.240 Now, either you believe her, which means you have to 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.559 believe that Trump's justification for this war was a lie, 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.120 or you believe she is lying and therefore hiding intel 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:22.679 from us. Neither is a good scenario. Again, these things 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.360 aren't sexy, but this is what we've got, and I 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.680 think this is where we are. The good news is 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.600 if there is any that it's a Trump and his 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.920 war are so unpopular they're dragging Republicans down with them, 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.559 which will make mid terms quite the reckoning. And that's 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.920 where you come in. You just got to vote. 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.440 You just got to vote, like this might be. I 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.640 know we say this, I know I say this. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.719 I have been guilty of saying these are the most 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.240 important mid terms of your lifetime. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.600 I think I've said that before. But like we're on 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:55.720 the brink of nuclear war. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.560 You guys like these are the most important midterms of 0:10:58.600 --> 0:10:59.280 your lifetime. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.920 I don't know how the stakes could be any higher. 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.800 As President's out of control, we Republicans in Congress are 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.760 not being the check on him that they are supposed 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:17.800 to be. We need everyone to go out and vote. 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.680 Midterms are going to be bad, and if Republicans were smart, 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:25.160 they'd start speaking up right about now about. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.600 It saving themselves, saving their their. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:34.559 Majority or what's left of it come midterms. Okay, when 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.200 we come back, we'll go a little deeper on the 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.120 twenty fifth Amendment with the author of a new book 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:39.839 on the subject, Don't Go Anywhere. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:53.160 Welcome back. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.240 Joining me now is Rebecca Lubau. She's CEO and founder 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.400 of Luba's Strategies. She's worked in government and in the 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.720 nonprofit sector. She's author of the new book Keeping a 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.800 Finger on the Button, Presidential Continuity and the Nuclear Age. 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:07.960 Welcome doctor Lubau. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.280 Thank you great to be here with you. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.600 Yeah, I mean this book is so timely as we're 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.199 engaging with a nuclear threshold state like Leke Iran, as 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.640 our president is threatening to wipe out a civilization off 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.960 the planet, which many took to mean nuclear strikes, but 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.200 also as we're hearing more and more about the twenty 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.400 fifth Amendment being invoked, and you deal with the twenty 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.680 fifth Amendment quite a bit in your book, So I want. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.920 To start there. Take us back a little bit. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.240 What led to the ratification of the twenty fifth Amendment 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:39.880 in the first place. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.920 Great, so it was about one hundred and seventy nine 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:49.680 years since the Constitution before the ratification of the twenty 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:56.040 fifth Amendment, and basically Article two, Section one provides for 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:01.640 the vice president taking over for the president should the 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.520 president die in office, but that left. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.320 The vice presidency vacant. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.520 There were no provisions for if a president was left 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.880 enabled and could not assume the powers and duties at 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.160 the office. There was no line of succession past the 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.200 vice president. So all of these were debated from time 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:25.080 to time throughout history until the ratification. In fact, there 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:30.440 were eight unplanned presidential successions and sixteen unplanned you know, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:37.280 vice presidential vacancies. And then there was activity in earnest 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.520 really around the time of the dropping of the bomb. 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.640 So there was originally that was like seventeen ninety two 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.400 provided for some legislative succession after the vice president, so 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.560 this Speaker and the Senate President pro tempop would step 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.680 into that role. Then eighteen eighty six there was some activity. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.520 It changed the order of success became just a cabinet 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.160 line of succession, so they skipped over the speaker and 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.520 the Senate President pro tem and then and then you 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.640 really see you know, nineteen forty five is the dropping 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.800 in the bomb. Nineteen forty seven, you see with Truman 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.920 the Presidential Succession Act, and Truman had a great relationship 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.040 with House Speaker Rayburn, so in part for that reason 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:26.760 and in part because he felt that executive succession was undemocratic, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.200 because these cabinet officials were not elected by the charity 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.520 of the populous. So he put in place, you know, 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.280 the Presidential Succession Act of nineteen forty seven put in 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.240 place this executive line of succession. And then you see 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:48.680 Eisenhower and Nixon had a letter agreement. Kennedy and Johnson 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.840 also did the same, and then Kennedy was assassinated. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.920 So in this the wake of the Kennedy. 0:14:55.560 --> 0:15:00.760 Assassination and this period of great anxiety around nuclear their warfare, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.040 that's when you see this activity really pick up. And 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.440 so February tenth, nineteen forty seven, after much debate, and 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.200 then of course three quarters of states have to ratify 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:18.600 you see, finally and amendments that addresses these issues, although 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.720 it left us with some holes and gaps, some purposeful 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.680 that my book keeping a finger on the button towards 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.880 the and I suggest some ways in which we can 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:31.240 build some of these gaps. 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.160 Yeah, and I want to ask you about the gaps, 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.800 but before I do, you also say that multiple administrations 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.680 amplified that anxiety of the nation. Was that was that 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.960 intentional or was that just how they maneuvered through the time. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.840 Yeah. So, and it's a lot about the rhetoric of 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.000 the president. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.760 You see this in particular, you know, during the colds 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.960 War and you know other things. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:01.320 Is that that take place? 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.160 In fact, I listened to your podcast on Artemis too 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:10.480 and really great and nineteen fifty seven's Buttnick for example. 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.080 Finally there was this this method to deliver bombs. So 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.320 not only did the Soviets develop the bomb quite quicker 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.320 than American scientists thought they would, but now this this 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.040 what was science fiction became reality. Right, there was this 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:33.120 ability to deliver these nuclear missiles. So you see, you know, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:40.920 the rhetoric change, and and you also see politicians preparing 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.640 for both continuity the president and and then you know 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:50.600 the civil preparedness, continuity of government and continuity of you know, society. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.960 And then that's also echoed in culture. 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.320 Right, So do you think like without. 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.840 The advent of nuclear energy, would we not get the 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:04.760 twenty fifth Amendment? 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.960 You know, that's that's an interesting because it does seem 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:15.000 like Kennedy's assassination and this you know, now that we're 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.919 in this modern era of globalization, the speed, time and 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.959 pace of communications has increased. So I think it was 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.800 the proximate and prime cause. But a really important reason 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:31.440 was this nuclear anxiety. And so I've examined unline archives. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.920 I was fortunate to talk with the author of the amendment, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.960 US Senator birch By before he passed, and he said, 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.800 I said, you know, Senator, was nuclear anxiety on like 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.560 in the back of your mind, you know, early on 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.960 in my research process. And he said it was impossible 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.920 for it not to be on the forefront rather back 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.280 of his mind, And so I would dug into the archives. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.040 I was fortunate to have access the US Senate Historians. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.119 Archives, and you can see throughout congressional debate in both 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.800 houses and in the States, how this fear of a 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.080 nuclear armageddon pushed the process forward. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:11.560 So interesting. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.199 So you mentioned there are gaps in this amendment just 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:15.119 relevant for today. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:16.720 Talk about what some of those gaps are. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:22.000 Yeah, So the first one is I think perhaps most 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:27.639 relevant is inability. What constitutes inability, and that hasn't been decided. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.919 So usually when like the I think we're up to 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.960 eighty five the congressional members who are calling for the 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.800 twenty fifth Amendment right now, but when they're calling for 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.760 the twenty fifth Amendment, they're usually calling for Section four 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.640 of the amendment. And so really the twenty fifth Amendment 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:52.159 allows for the president to decide that he's enabled and 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.120 then take back the responsibilities, the powers and duties when 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.240 he decides he's able. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.600 The section four says, well, if he's in a. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.880 Position of inability and he can't make that call, then 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.919 the vice president and a majority of cabinet or a 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.400 body that Congress so provides designates by law will. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.080 Make that decision. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.720 So the Congress has not designated a body, which I 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.840 think they should do, and that body should be composed 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:28.800 of experts that are nonpartisan, impartial and there yeah, and 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.000 that don't owe their positions of power to the president 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.080 like the vice president and the cabinet do, right, right, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.000 So that's the first issue is what constitutes inability. 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.280 So that part inability that has never gone up to 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.400 a court level that adjudicated or delineated codified exactly what 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:49.800 that means. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:50.720 That hasn't done that yet. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.080 No, And there's been a number of you know, commissions 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.560 and studies and fat former President Carter was on a 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:02.640 commission to determine and you know what would comprise this body? 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.639 You know what type of medical experts? Who gets to decide? 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.760 Does the president shoose, does Congress get to choose members? 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.840 Does it include maybe psychiatrists? And for example, to you know, 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.320 determine to make this determination and then you know, this 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.639 body would be more likely than the president and the 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.800 majority of the cabinet to suggest invoking Section four. 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.080 And I think it would probably still be up to 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.080 the vice. 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.360 President because all of the mechanisms of the twenty fifth 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.960 Amendment revolve around the vice president. 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.280 Right, So for all the folks, and we talked about 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:41.840 this a little bit before the break, for all the 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.800 folks talking about invoking the twenty fifth Amendment, just in 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.680 today's political landscape, with what we know about JD Vance 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.680 for example, for what we know about this cabinet. We've 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.600 all seen a cabinet meeting where they go around obsequiously, 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:02.119 you know, praising the president. Does it impossible that the 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.359 vice president and a majority of the cabinet would vote 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:06.879 to invoke this. 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:13.080 In short, no, And I did study this in periods 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:18.159 of high nuclear tensions during the Cold War. And for example, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.080 if you look at Reagan and the assassination attempts in 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.560 March in nineteen eighty one, you know, his lung was 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.320 punctured and he you know, he made a show and 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.919 he sort of stumbled into the hospital and then you know, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.400 he was joking and things like that. 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.320 But that was exactly. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.680 When if he was going to be knocked out with anesthesia. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.480 That's exactly a situation in which the framers of the 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.000 twenty fifth Amendment thought that it should be invoked, whether 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:50.480 my president and the cabinet, if he was already enables 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.680 or if he knew that he was going into surgery and. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:55.679 You know, should invoke it. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:01.520 So it shows these these patterns where you know that 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.159 it's not going to be invoked because the individuals around 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.320 the president are concerned about their power, and the president 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.040 himself is concerned about his imagery. Because the thought with 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.879 Reagan was he might recover from this punctured lung, but 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.600 he wouldn't recover from the imagery of appearing week and 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:24.000 an Aga and yeah, so that is so it's very 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:29.399 unlikely that Section four would be invoked successfully. 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:33.240 Yeah, and then I can't believe I'm asking this question, 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.160 but it is relevant what what happens to the nuclear 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:42.520 codes during this period of transition, if that were ever 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:43.040 to happen. 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:49.560 Yeah, So that's interesting because, as you know, the president 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.280 has someone who follows him with this nuclear football, and 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.560 the nucletar football itself is really interesting because in some 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:02.360 ways is the only physical manifestation of the nation's head 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:05.359 of stage right, because King Charles, for example, as the 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:07.800 orb and the scepter and the crown and all the 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:09.800 president as head of statelely has is this. 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:11.480 Nuclear football and the codes. 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:16.760 And during the Reagan assassination attempt right after that, you know, 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.240 the codes were in a soup pocket, you know, kept 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:20.640 by the. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:21.600 FBI as evidence. 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.399 They weren't even with you know, the president at the time, 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:30.440 and so it was it's just really, you know, importance 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:35.040 is such an important, you know, like topic though we 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:39.360 haven't really considered. And after January, during January sixth, during 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.320 the insurrection of the Capitol, when the mob was sort 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.320