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Speaker 1: You were listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

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Speaker 2: The debate over defense spending is getting real after the

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Speaker 2: Senate votes to advance the NDAA seventy two to twenty five,

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Speaker 2: setting up a floor vote likely next week. It funds

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon, at least we understand from the committee eight

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty six billion dollars. It raises troop pay

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Speaker 2: by five percent. We're going to compare notes on that

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Speaker 2: in a minute with Zach Cohen. And there are major

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Speaker 2: differences with the House version that passed last week, of course,

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Speaker 2: included amendments attacking the social policies at the Pentagon, from

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Speaker 2: abortion to transgender healthcare to diversity. Big debate on the

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Speaker 2: House side last week, and I talked about it last

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Speaker 2: evening on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV with Democratic

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Speaker 2: Congressoman Chrissy Hoolihan, who served in the Air Force sits

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Speaker 2: on the Arm Services Committee. She did not like the

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Speaker 2: way this came together, following her work that.

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Speaker 3: The Senate will strip all of those really reprehensible culture

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Speaker 3: war items out of the NDAA that just was passed

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Speaker 3: this last week. But I'm enormously disappointed at my Republican

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Speaker 3: colleagues for having junked up what was a fifty eight

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Speaker 3: to one bipartisan bill.

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Speaker 2: Of course, those Republicans think they're bringing the Pentagon back

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Speaker 2: to the job that it's supposed to be doing. Let's

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Speaker 2: talk about it with Zach Cohen, of course, Bloomberg, Government

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Speaker 2: Congress reporter, back with us here in studio in Washington. Zach,

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Speaker 2: it's great to see you. It was a tough debate

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Speaker 2: last week when it came time for some of these amendments.

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Speaker 2: We saw real arguments on the House floor. The Senate's

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Speaker 2: taking a very different approach here. So, assuming it does

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Speaker 2: pass this bill, and you can tell us a little

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Speaker 2: bit more, I think about what's inside, what happens, do

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Speaker 2: we go to some lengthy conference session, How does this

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Speaker 2: come out in the end?

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's the multi billion dollar question, Like answers

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Speaker 4: to yourself, there's a lot of different issues that they'll

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Speaker 4: have to work out between the House and the Senate,

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Speaker 4: one of them obviously being abortion. One of the major

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Speaker 4: writers at the House attached to its version before Democrats

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Speaker 4: in Block actually voted against it because of it would

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Speaker 4: end this policy in the military of but the Pentagon

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Speaker 4: that helps pay for that some of the travel costs

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Speaker 4: for troops seeking abortions outside of their state if they're

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Speaker 4: in a state that, after the fall of rov Wade

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Speaker 4: has outlawed abortions, something that Republicans in Congress is not

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Speaker 4: a big fan of. And it's the reason why sen

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Speaker 4: Or Tommy Tuberville, some of our listeners may know, has

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Speaker 4: been holding up some of these military promotions over the

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Speaker 4: last couple of months. And the Senate that is not

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Speaker 4: going to fly. In the Senate, where not only do

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Speaker 4: Democrats have a majority, but you got people with Susan

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Speaker 4: Collins Lisa Rakowski, moderate Republicans who are pro choice so

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Speaker 4: to speak, and are unlikely to support this measure. And

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Speaker 4: so each the House in the Senate will come up

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Speaker 4: with their different versions of this bill, go to a conference,

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Speaker 4: and maybe try to get it done by the end

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Speaker 4: of the year.

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Speaker 2: Well, as I mentioned, the vote in the Senate was convincing.

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Speaker 5: On this vote.

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Speaker 6: The Ya's are seventy two, the nayser twenty five three

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Speaker 6: fifths of the Senator Senators duly chosen and sworn having

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Speaker 6: voted in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to.

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Speaker 2: Does it pass the Senate by a similar.

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Speaker 4: Margin, assuming they keep most of the toxic riders out,

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Speaker 4: which is something Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has been

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Speaker 4: saying really needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: So that's a good indicator of where we might be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and they'll, you know, maybe it'll move a couple

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Speaker 4: of ways, you know, backwards or forwards. But this is

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Speaker 4: typically a bill that gets you know, seventy eighty votes

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Speaker 4: in a Senate that requires sixty to get anything done.

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Speaker 4: And so they'll have a couple of amendment votes later today,

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Speaker 4: they'll probably have some more tomorrow and next week, and

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Speaker 4: then probably polish it off before they head off for

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Speaker 4: the August recess.

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Speaker 2: And then everyone starts banging their heads together. How does

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Speaker 2: this get to be a final version? Because obviously we

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Speaker 2: saw great reluctance in the House to do anything without

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Speaker 2: removing these policies. Never mind the Tubberville blockade. They don't

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Speaker 2: want to fund the Pentagon in its current form.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think especially in the House, you saw

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Speaker 4: other initiatives that would have ended DEI initiatives in the military.

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Speaker 4: Some of these culture war issues that Republicans, especially since

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Speaker 4: taking back the House in January, have really made a focus.

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Speaker 4: The Senate's not usually the ones to get involved in

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Speaker 4: that kind of issue.

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Speaker 2: And they know that's not going to pass the Senate

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Speaker 2: right right, So it becomes a question are we at

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Speaker 2: risk of actually going unfunded? Could the Pentagon? Could there

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Speaker 2: be an interruption of military funding.

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Speaker 4: So there's two different answers to that question. One is

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Speaker 4: it's possible the NDAA does not pass this year, which

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Speaker 4: has passed every year for the last six decades. There

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Speaker 4: is an appropriations bill, a funding bill le will actually

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Speaker 4: fund all these authorizations that are in the NDAA, which

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Speaker 4: has its own set of issues which we can talk about,

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Speaker 4: and so certainly there's some concern. I think Adam Smith,

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Speaker 4: the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said

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Speaker 4: it's more likely than not the NDA doesn't pass this year,

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Speaker 4: which would be rather extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean then for paying troops for equipping

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Speaker 2: the military.

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Speaker 4: Well, it means the troops don't get a five point

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Speaker 4: two percent pay increase. It means that a number of

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Speaker 4: authorizations that do expire December thirty first, Yeah, would expire

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Speaker 4: without congressional action, and so there's definitely a lot riding

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Speaker 4: on them coming to some sort of agreement here.

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Speaker 2: Incredible and to think that we've got hundreds of military

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Speaker 2: promotions being held up by this Tubberville blockade. This is

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Speaker 2: kind of a critical moment. We're going to talk in

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Speaker 2: just a minute with retired Army Major General John Ferrari. Zach,

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Speaker 2: you said five percent increase, that's what would be going

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Speaker 2: to troops. Is there money here to replenish any of

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Speaker 2: our own stocks or is this to just kind of

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Speaker 2: maintain what we're already doing.

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Speaker 4: I believe this is generally an increase over.

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Speaker 2: And I realized this isn't fully baked yet.

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Speaker 4: Right exactly, and they're still working through the details of

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Speaker 4: all this stuff. Remember that Republicans are generally a fan

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Speaker 4: of increasing military spending, but they did include a three

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Speaker 4: percent cap on defense spending and the debt sealing deal

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Speaker 4: that passed back in June, and so they're not going

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Speaker 4: to want to authorize additional programs They'm not going to

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Speaker 4: be able to fund in a government funding bill later

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Speaker 4: in the year.

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Speaker 2: Great reporting as always from Zach Gohing. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: coming over. Zach Bloomberg, Government Congress reporter Zach Cohen with

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Speaker 2: us here on Bloomberg sound On. Let's turn to the general.

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Speaker 2: He's a senior fellow at the AEI, now the American

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Speaker 2: Enterprise Institute. Retired US Army Major General John Ferrari. It's

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Speaker 2: great to have with us at General. That question that

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Speaker 2: I asked about replenishment is something that I'd like to

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Speaker 2: spend some time with you on. But I just wonder

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Speaker 2: initially your concerns, if any, that there's an interruption in

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Speaker 2: military spending because of this political debate.

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Speaker 7: So I'm optimistic that the committees on both the Senate

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Speaker 7: and the House will come to resolution. They have done

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Speaker 7: so for six plus decades. In many years, we've had

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Speaker 7: impasses similar to this over various controversial issues and in

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Speaker 7: the end that comes out in conference. The Armed Services

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Speaker 7: committees and the House and Senate have done this for

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Speaker 7: six decades, and I'm optimistic that they will come to

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Speaker 7: a resolution.

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Speaker 2: That it becomes a matter of refilling our own stockpiles.

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Speaker 2: Assuming that you are correct, and I wonder if it's

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Speaker 2: time to start having this conversation. You can talk about

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Speaker 2: Ukraine funding up and down all day long, and I

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Speaker 2: realized that there are some folks in Washington who do

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Speaker 2: not agree on the Biden administration's approach to this. But generally,

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Speaker 2: at some point we need to consider our own needs. Here,

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Speaker 2: right we talk about refilling this rategic petroleum reserve. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if we even know publicly how much munition we

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Speaker 2: have spent in supporting the war in Ukraine and how

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Speaker 2: much we need.

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Speaker 7: Well, we have spent a lot, so we do know,

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Speaker 7: you know, in round numbers what we have. And for example,

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Speaker 7: you know the recent controversy over sending cluster munitions to

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Speaker 7: Ukraine was because we are out of regular artillery shells

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Speaker 7: to send them. So that is a startling pronouncement by

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Speaker 7: the administration that in this regional war, a very important

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Speaker 7: war for Ukraine, existential for them, but a regional war

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Speaker 7: compared to a war that the United States would be in,

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Speaker 7: we've run out of conventional artillery shells, and so we

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Speaker 7: need to build our stockpiles bigger, not just replenish them

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Speaker 7: to what they were, but build them much higher. Because

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Speaker 7: we've taken too much risk, and we're at risk and

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Speaker 7: running out of munitions in our next war.

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Speaker 2: So how long would it take and how much would

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Speaker 2: it cost.

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Speaker 7: So it depends on what your assumptions are. Currently, the

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Speaker 7: Department of Defense assumes that it will only fight one

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Speaker 7: war at a time and that that war will be short.

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Speaker 7: And so if you assume one short war, then probably

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Speaker 7: the ammunitions you have are enough. If you assume two

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Speaker 7: wars that are short, you need to at least double

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Speaker 7: a stockpile. And if you say, well, the wars won't

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Speaker 7: be over in several weeks, they might last a year

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Speaker 7: or two, you might have to grow your stockpiles by

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Speaker 7: ten times, because it takes about three years from when

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Speaker 7: you shoot around out of a rifle or a missile

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Speaker 7: to when you get a new one. And so really,

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Speaker 7: if you're looking at long sustained, protracted war, you need

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Speaker 7: a three year munition stockpile. And that's going to be

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Speaker 7: you know, in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: And that's getting back to where we were before the

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Speaker 2: war in Ukraine essentially, right, that would be just going

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Speaker 2: back a year and a half essentially to what we had.

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Speaker 7: Was that right, Well, that would be more like going

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Speaker 7: back to where we were in the nineteen eighties with

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Speaker 7: the Soviet Union, going back to where we were. Is

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Speaker 7: the bare minimum we need to do, but that's going

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Speaker 7: to take three years to do.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that alone would take three years, so a long years.

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Speaker 2: Is the Defense industrial base capable of generating what we

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Speaker 2: need based on the levels of depletion that we have,

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Speaker 2: It is not.

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Speaker 7: And that again, that's why we're sending other weapons to Ukraine,

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Speaker 7: and we're trying to buy munitions from South Korea and

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Speaker 7: other countries if we need them. The industrial base is

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Speaker 7: currently configured because the Defense Department only buys an emergency

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Speaker 7: and so the people who run the munition plans can't

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Speaker 7: keep extra capacity, and so they're much like in COVID

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Speaker 7: time when we're looking to surge masks and other things.

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Speaker 7: It took a very long time. That capacity no longer exists.

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Speaker 2: Wow, well, so let's get a little more specific.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the cluster munitions and the lack of artillery.

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Speaker 2: We've provided a lot of missile defense systems as well,

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Speaker 2: and I know that we've promised some that haven't even

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Speaker 2: been built yet. General, what concerns you the most?

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Speaker 7: What concerns me is we're promising the Ukrainians weapons two

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Speaker 7: or three years from now, but they're fighting for their

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Speaker 7: lives right now, at this moment, and so promising them

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Speaker 7: tanks or artillery or air defense three years from now

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Speaker 7: is really not going to help them. The war we're

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Speaker 7: fighting today with Russia through Ukraine, the Chinese are looking

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Speaker 7: at it, and everybody knows our assumption is one war

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Speaker 7: at a time, and so there's plenty of opportunity now

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Speaker 7: for opportunistic behavior, either in the Middle East or the

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Speaker 7: Chinese to call our bluff and try to try to

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Speaker 7: be aggressive and take advantage of the fact that our

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Speaker 7: magazines are depleted.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a really interesting view, general, and it's and

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Speaker 2: it's a contrarian one in many ways, because I keep

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Speaker 2: hearing the conventional wisdom is, hey, China's watching what's happening

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Speaker 2: in Ukraine and they're saying, WHOA Vladimir Putin miscalculated, it's

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Speaker 2: not time yet to invade Taiwan. You see it differently.

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Speaker 7: I do. What I see is, you know, in the

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Speaker 7: former Pacific Command commander said, the timeline for moving up

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Speaker 7: a potential invasion where the Chinese will be able to

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Speaker 7: do it is in twenty twenty seven. What the United

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Speaker 7: States has been doing the Defense Department, it's been saying

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Speaker 7: we want to be ready for a war with China

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Speaker 7: in twenty thirty five. Essentially, we've told China, hey, if

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Speaker 7: you want to fight us, do it before twenty thirty five,

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Speaker 7: because that's when we plan to have all our weapons

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Speaker 7: in place. And so now that our magazines are depleted,

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Speaker 7: we've told them that we're planning to be ready next decade,

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Speaker 7: not this decade. If you were the Chinese, what would

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Speaker 7: you do?

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Speaker 2: Well, So when are we going to have this conversation?

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Speaker 2: We're struggling to simply have a debate over maintaining what

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon needs right now, you're talking about going several

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Speaker 2: steps further to replenish not only our own stocks here,

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Speaker 2: but get them back to where they were sometime ago.

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Speaker 7: Yes, and we know that in the House of Representatives

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Speaker 7: they've stood up a select committee on China that's looking

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Speaker 7: a lot of that. So hopefully what comes out of

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Speaker 7: that committee in the next year or two will recommend

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Speaker 7: the funding additions to do that. This is going to

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Speaker 7: cost money to do, but the money preparing for war,

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Speaker 7: as somebody once said, is it's a lot cheap. It's expensive,

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Speaker 7: but it's a lot cheaper than fighting a war. And

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Speaker 7: it's a lot cheaper than losing a war. And so

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Speaker 7: we're going to have to get around. The recent debt

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Speaker 7: Ceiling Act restricted the Department of Defense to a one

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Speaker 7: percent increase next year. We know inflations more than that.

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Speaker 7: So we're going to have to figure out how to

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Speaker 7: get around the Depths to Control Act to spend the

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Speaker 7: more money to get the munition stockpiles up.

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Speaker 2: General, I have to ask you about this blockade that

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Speaker 2: Senator Tommy Tubberville has at the moment on military promotions.

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Speaker 2: It's in the hundreds now, some see it going beyond

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Speaker 2: six hundred if this continues. This is over the Pentagon's

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Speaker 2: abortion travel policy. The Secretary of Defense talked about this

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Speaker 2: in a news briefing yesterday as he called on Tommy

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Speaker 2: Tuberville to drop the blockade. I'd love for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to what he said and have you respond. Here's

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Speaker 2: Secretary Office.

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Speaker 8: This is a readiness issue. The fact that Senator Tuboville

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Speaker 8: is maintains this whole on the promotions of our senior officers.

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Speaker 8: It cascades, It creates friction throughout the entire chain. It

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Speaker 8: disadvantages families, and we've taught you've heard us talk about

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Speaker 8: the impact of that, and so I would ask Senator

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Speaker 8: Tuberville to lift this hole. And you know, as you

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Speaker 8: think about this, Jennifer, I would imagine our adversaries would

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Speaker 8: look at something like this and be and be pretty

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Speaker 8: happy that we create this kind of turbulence within our force.

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Speaker 2: General Ferrari, I only have a minute left. Do you

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Speaker 2: agree with the secretary?

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Speaker 7: I one hundred percent agree with the secretary and want

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Speaker 7: to just add that it's a dangerous politicization of the

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Speaker 7: military holding them. Holding military officers hostage for a political

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Speaker 7: issue is not something we want to do in this country.

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Speaker 2: Also, the fact that one in five of his troops

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Speaker 2: are women and they don't choose where they are assigned,

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Speaker 2: which is why he is holding firm on that abortion

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Speaker 2: travel policy. Is he doing the right thing?

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Speaker 7: Well, that's a political issue between the Republicans and the

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Speaker 7: Democrat and the Senate and the Congress sets policy, and

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Speaker 7: so that's something they're all going to have to work through.

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Speaker 7: Military leaders need to stay out of that debate, and

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Speaker 7: the Congress needs to keep the military out of that debate.

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Speaker 2: Also answered, like a military man, retired US Army Major

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Speaker 2: General John Ferrari, we thank you, sir, for your time

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Speaker 2: in your service. He's a senior fellow at the American

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Speaker 2: Enterprise Institute. And getting us off and running here and

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Speaker 2: the Wednesday edition of sound On, We've got a lot

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Speaker 2: to talk about with our panel. Lester and Max are

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Speaker 2: in next. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also and live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven.

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Speaker 2: It does appear the Senate. We'll put some ornaments on

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Speaker 2: the Christmas tree before they are done as well with

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Speaker 2: National Defense spending. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday

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Speaker 2: edition of sound On. Now that we talked to our

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Speaker 2: reporter Zach Cohen and the retired general about this whole debate,

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Speaker 2: we want to hear from the panel on this. Senators.

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Speaker 2: By the way, from both sides of the aisle again,

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Speaker 2: this is the NDAA. This is the annual Defense spending bill,

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Speaker 2: A big deal in Washington, not a part as an

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Speaker 2: exercise until quite recently, and it got loaded up with

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Speaker 2: amendments on the House side aimed at transgender healthcare, abortion policy,

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Speaker 2: diversity policy. Senators have agreed to a manager's package, as

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Speaker 2: they call it, fifty one amendments, twenty one Republican, twenty

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Speaker 2: one Democrat, nine bipartisan. For instance, John Tester has won

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Speaker 2: on those after the spy balloon, his provision to assess

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Speaker 2: commercially available technology that can and is being used in

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Speaker 2: foreign espionized programs. Nothing about social policy, however, and that's

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Speaker 2: the problem. Senate passes this thing, maybe it happens next week.

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Speaker 2: The question is how does it ever come together in

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Speaker 2: the House with many conservative House Republicans saying, no, we're

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Speaker 2: not paying for the Pentagon unless you end these policies.

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Speaker 2: I talked about this with Chrissy Houlihan, Democrat from Philadelphia,

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Speaker 2: serves on the Armed Services Committee and is deeply concerned

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Speaker 2: about what could be an interruption in Pentagon fund.

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Speaker 3: I know that these are grave consequences if we're not

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Speaker 3: able to get the NDAA through and appropriations through as well.

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Speaker 3: I do also know my schoolhouse rock, and I believe

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Speaker 3: at this point in time, even though it has passed

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Speaker 3: the House with some things in it that I don't

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Speaker 3: agree with, or in fact strongly don't agree with, it

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Speaker 3: still has to be reconciled, so to speak, in the Senate.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think we necessarily know what will happen

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Speaker 3: in the timeline that that will happen under.

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Speaker 2: Don't make me play Schoolhouse Rock, We instead assemble the penel.

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Speaker 2: Lester Munson is with us today Republican Strategists, co head

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Speaker 2: of international practice at BGR Government Affairs, and Max Burns

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Speaker 2: is back today as well, Democratic strategist, the founder of

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Speaker 2: Third Degree Strategy. It's great to have you both here, Lester.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a sense of how this ends? You

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Speaker 2: spent enough time in the Senate to understand the inner

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Speaker 2: workings of the Chamber and how they might or might

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Speaker 2: not agree with the House.

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Speaker 9: Right, And I don't think any of this, frankly, Joe

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Speaker 9: is very surprising. The House and the Senate are different beasts.

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Speaker 9: The House, you can win with two hundred and eighteen votes,

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Speaker 9: which is just over fifty percent. In the Senate, you've

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Speaker 9: got to have sixty votes to pass anything. It has

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Speaker 9: to be bipartisan, which means a lot of these difficult

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Speaker 9: social issues are not going to be included in an NDAA.

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Speaker 9: I fully expect that we will reach a scenario where

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Speaker 9: the House pass version and a Senate pass version of

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Speaker 9: NBA go to a conference committee, most of these things

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Speaker 9: are removed, and we will then get to an existential

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Speaker 9: question in the House whether the McCarthy led Republicans can

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Speaker 9: vote for a bill, a compromise conference report that doesn't

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Speaker 9: have these issues in it. That is the big question.

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Speaker 9: We'll probably see that in the next couple of months,

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Speaker 9: maybe at the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: Well, how about the existential question of going home and

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Speaker 2: explaining why you voted against military funding, Max Burns. Is

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Speaker 2: that an issue?

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Speaker 10: I think it absolutely is. I mean, this is such

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Speaker 10: a change for Republicans who've always had a capacity, I think,

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Speaker 10: to actually talk nuts and bolts defense spending pretty fluently.

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Speaker 10: But we see this brain drain that comes with driving

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Speaker 10: out your policy people and replacing them with populists. And

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Speaker 10: now you've got people who are going into these communities

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Speaker 10: that are really supported by strong defense spending and having

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Speaker 10: to explain this argument that doesn't really make sense outside

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Speaker 10: of like the Twitter verse. And we're seeing that a

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Speaker 10: lot of Republicans are starting to face a lot of

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Speaker 10: heat for that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you there are going to be some

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Speaker 2: tough decisions to be had. And we're not even talking

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Speaker 2: lester about the bigger picture as I tried to get

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Speaker 2: into with the General, and that's about replenishment. When is

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Speaker 2: that hard conversation going to happen. We can argue about

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Speaker 2: Ukraine funding all we want, but at some point we're

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Speaker 2: going to have to start replacing the stuff that we're

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Speaker 2: sending over.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think there's been a real wake up call.

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Speaker 9: This fight in Ukraine has really revealed that we do

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Speaker 9: have kind of a structural issue here in our defense budget. Frankly,

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Speaker 9: we've been under funding defense for a long time. There

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Speaker 9: are consequences of that. Our industrial base has eroded. I

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Speaker 9: believe the Pentagon is very aware of this. Contractors are

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Speaker 9: certainly aware. They're is a mad scramble going on to

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Speaker 9: provide the material necessary for what's happening in Ukraine and

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Speaker 9: to get ready for potentially any future conflicts in the

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Speaker 9: US might be more directly involved in. But in a way,

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Speaker 9: it's Joe and I'm trying to find the silver lining here.

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Speaker 9: It's a very good thing that we have gotten this warning.

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Speaker 9: Bell now better late than never. But Congress in particular

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Speaker 9: is going to have to take some tough funding issues

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Speaker 9: in the next year or two to address this, there's

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Speaker 9: no doubt.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, Max, I wonder your thought on that.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just Congress, is the Biden administration at

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Speaker 2: some point. I'm guessing this is post election going to

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Speaker 2: have to consider invoking the Defense Production Act for the

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Speaker 2: actual matter of defense. We've got experience doing that for

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Speaker 2: COVID supplies, but this could end up being an emergency situation.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, this is a very serious situation. I thought the

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Speaker 10: General made a great point about Ukraine as a sort

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Speaker 10: of proxy for American military readiness and viewing this as

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Speaker 10: a capabilities test. And what we're seeing is that we're

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Speaker 10: not where we thought we were. And there, as the

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Speaker 10: Air Force Chief of Staff said on the Hill the

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Speaker 10: other day, it's about balancing capability and capacity, and right

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Speaker 10: now there's an imbalance in the conversation. I mean, you

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Speaker 10: have you have some people fighting for the Air Force

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Speaker 10: to take F fifteen ease it doesn't want, instead of

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Speaker 10: spending that money elsewhere. And it really does seem like

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Speaker 10: what the domestic policy, political argument and the international situation

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Speaker 10: are not aligning here.

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Speaker 2: So how much of this Lester is you know, it

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Speaker 2: needs to begin with eliminating waste and just wrong headed spending,

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Speaker 2: or is it about bigger numbers?

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Speaker 9: I think it's about bigger numbers. We've we've been and

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Speaker 9: when I say we, I mean the US government and

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Speaker 9: our decision makers have been focused on understandably the pandemic

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Speaker 9: for the last few years. Of course, our government spending

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Speaker 9: dramatically increased, it was almost entirely domestic. We should have

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Speaker 9: been more mindful about our defense and international obligations. Frankly,

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Speaker 9: that's still an issue where Congress is underfunding the State

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Speaker 9: Department and foreign assistance as well. So there's it's not

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Speaker 9: just defense spending, Joe, There's there's a whole this look

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Speaker 9: inward and I and there's a lot of blame to

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Speaker 9: go around on that in both parties frankly, perhaps more

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Speaker 9: with the Republicans admittedly, but it's both parties way too

438
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 9: inward looking. We need to resume a more global approach

439
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 9: that's in our best interests at the end of the day,

440
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 9: that includes defense spending and diplomatic and development as well.

441
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: Will this require then, short of you know, defense production acts,

442
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: Max Burns more dialogue between the administration and these defense contractors.

443
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: It's almost like the conversation where they're trying to have

444
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: with oil producers. You guys need to start tuling up

445
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 2: because we're about to order a lot of stuff.

446
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely right, And I think that

447
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 10: was a great point, this idea that we are a

448
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 10: very much more inwardly facing country right now. We're very

449
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 10: preoccupied with domestic issues, so it's not getting as big

450
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 10: a pressure as it may otherwise get from people at large.

451
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 10: But it's still an emergency. I mean, even if we

452
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 10: invoke defense production, it's going to take time to scale up.

453
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 10: And this is something, you know, having just dealt with

454
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 10: the pandemic and seen the problems of bottlenecks and unexpected

455
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 10: supply shocks, something that the Biden administration should be very

456
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 10: open that it's preparing for to reassure not just our allies,

457
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 10: but to reassure the actual defense industry itself that it

458
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 10: will be able to meet those demands.

459
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: And then that starts a new arms race, Lester, or

460
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: is there already one underway when you look at China?

461
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's already one underway. And and let's be clear,

462
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,959
Speaker 9: we're not necessarily talking about, you know, strategic nuclear armaments here.

463
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 9: We're talking about the most old fashioned stuff. Yeah, material

464
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 9: stuff for our military guns, bullets, perhaps some housing and

465
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 9: basing issues, but really the things that you need to

466
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 9: sustain a conflict, to defend your nation. We now know

467
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 9: we've got a problem. Let's get to it.

468
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: Not to mention ships and maybe airplanes, Max, what do

469
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: we need the most right now?

470
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 10: It appears that the basic things that we need are

471
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 10: effectively ammunition, means to transport that effectively, and honestly, a

472
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 10: more stable supply of the parts that make those things function.

473
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 10: I mean, so much of these these more advanced weapons

474
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 10: we're sending rely on semiconductors, microchips, and we're still in

475
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 10: the process of shoring up that supply line. And it

476
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 10: shows you just how vulnerable this is to being cut

477
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 10: off from even unexpected supply shocks and economic movements.

478
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: Sounds like, it's good to be Raytheon, It's good to

479
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: be Lockheed, it's good to be Northrop. Great talk. Lester

480
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: Months and Maxburn stay with us as we turn to

481
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: the president campaign, the Republican primary, and the re emergence

482
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: of AI in campaign ads.

483
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

484
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

485
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

486
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

487
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 2: If you cannot escape the conversation about artificial intelligence right now.

488
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: That includes on the campaign trail, where we're getting real

489
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 2: world examples of how this technology could change the landscape

490
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: for politics forever. We've talked about it before in some

491
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: of the deep fakes that we've seen. This is a

492
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: little bit different. The latest ad from the pro Ron

493
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: DeSantis pack called Never Back Down, Never Back Down Pack.

494
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: It takes aim at Donald Trump's criticism of Iowa Governor

495
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: Kim Reynolds, and it uses an AI generated Donald Trump voice.

496
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: Everyone's got an impression? Well, this one is from a

497
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: computer essentially reading something similar to a post that Trump

498
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: made on truth Social Here's the setup. She signed the

499
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: Heartbeat Bill and stands up for Iowans every day, so

500
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: why is Donald Trump attacking her? Here's the vite opened

501
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: up the governor position for Kim Reynolds, in which she

502
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: fell behind. I endorsed her, did big.

503
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 10: Rallies and she won, now she wants to remain neutral.

504
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: I don't invite her to events. Trump should find Democrats,

505
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: not Republicans. It doesn't even really sound that great, but

506
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: this does appear to be a first for a campaign

507
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: at Is it ethical? Does it matter? Let's reassemble our panel.

508
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: Lester Munson, Republican strategist at BG our Government affairs, Max

509
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: Burn's Democratic strategists of third degree strategies. What's your thought

510
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 2: on this, Lester? We're opening a can of worms here.

511
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: Do you have a problem with it?

512
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 9: Well, first of all, DeSantis needs some positive press, and

513
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 9: really any press, and so I guess if you can

514
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 9: use some che ai to imitate the former president to

515
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 9: get his name in the news, maybe it's a net

516
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 9: plus for him. But I gotta tell you, Joe, I

517
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 9: listened to that. That didn't sound like Donald Trump. So

518
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 9: they clearly did not spend a lot of money on

519
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 9: that ad.

520
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess that's right. Max. Do you worry

521
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: about the ethical side of this? Do we need new

522
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: rules of the road? I really do.

523
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 10: I mean I worked at Facebook a decade ago when

524
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 10: it was just appearing on the Washington policy radar, and

525
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 10: I can tell you Congress still has not come to

526
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 10: grips with regulating the last big technology revolution. And that's

527
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 10: a problem because this easily accessible AI is already upending

528
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 10: huge parts of the economy, huge parts of our relationship

529
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 10: to the truth, and it has a corrosive effect. It

530
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 10: may not be great now, as this ad isn't, but

531
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 10: I worry about where it is in five or ten years.

532
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: Or if they spent more money. I think to your point, Lester,

533
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: there is AI technology that is it's just unmistakable. I mean,

534
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: you can't it's an It's incredible to me how good

535
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: some of the quality is here. We saw the Ron

536
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: DeSantis deep fake that they put on this office routine.

537
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 2: They turned him into Michael Scott from the Office. I mean,

538
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 2: if he didn't know who these if he didn't know

539
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: the show, you would have thought it was real. So

540
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: when has it become a problem.

541
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 9: Well, it was actually I think it was a more

542
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 9: interesting case in Chicago earlier this year between involved in

543
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 9: the mayoral race on one of the candidates, Paul Vallas,

544
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 9: who eventually lost, was a victim of a deep fake

545
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 9: kind of voiceover of him talking about a very sensitive

546
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 9: police issue, and that may have impacted the race in

547
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 9: a way that you know hasn't gotten a lot of

548
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 9: national attention. So this, this DeSantis thing, I think is

549
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 9: notable and maybe it provokes an interesting conversation about things.

550
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 9: But this is already going on in you know, in

551
00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 9: the in the deep battles of politics, in these you

552
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 9: know where jobs are on the line and the fighting

553
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 9: is intense. This stuff is already going on.

554
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: Hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. But

555
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: I have another id I want to ask you guys about.

556
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: This is from Joe Biden, as he tweeted a little

557
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: bit earlier as a matter of fact, that I approve

558
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: this message. That was the tweet from Joe Biden. I

559
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: approved this message. And it's Marjorie Taylor Green. And this

560
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: is fascinating because about two weeks ago we were asking

561
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: about whoever coined the term biden Omics, I think at

562
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal, what does it mean? And the

563
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: White House even kicked out its definition as the President

564
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: struggles to define Bidenomics as an advantage point on the

565
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: campaign trail. Turns out Marjorie Taylor Green can do a

566
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: better job at that than Joe Biden himself. She was

567
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: railing against the president and what she saw as ridiculous

568
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: domestic policy, and they simply lifted her words and turned

569
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: it into an advertise. Been promoting the president.

570
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 5: Listen, Joe Biden had the largest public investment in social,

571
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 5: infrastructure and environmental programs that is actually finishing what FDR

572
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 5: started that LBJ expanded on. And Joe Biden is attempting

573
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 5: to complete programs to address education, medical care, urban problems,

574
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: rural poverty, transportation, Medicare, Medicaid, labor unions, and he still

575
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 5: is working on it.

576
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: He's still working on it. Max Burns, you can't write

577
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: stuff like this. Apparently this is great.

578
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 10: I mean, I love the music in this ad. It

579
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 10: makes me feel like I'm playing the sims and it's

580
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 10: It is refreshing to me to see Democrats that are

581
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 10: finally realizing that their agenda's popular, that they're standing behind it,

582
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 10: that Joe Biden's finally gonna throw some punches and say

583
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 10: it's not a bad thing to be a progressive in

584
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 10: the vein of FDR and LBJ, and I want to

585
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 10: see Democrats do this across the country. With all those

586
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 10: Republicans who took credit for biden victories in their districts

587
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 10: that they voted against.

588
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: But only even has the music right. You know, well,

589
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: there is a lot to be said for just the

590
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: right key when it comes to political ads. Here lester

591
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: that speech that she was making was supposed to be critical, right.

592
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 9: That was unbelievable. There is there's a reason why Marjorie

593
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 9: Taylor Green is the Democrats favorite Republican. She she steps on.

594
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 9: She can't deliver a message the right way. I mean,

595
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 9: this is this is this was uh, this is incredibly

596
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 9: ironic and I recall this her. You know that when

597
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 9: that video first came out, it was on Twitter immediately

598
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 9: the Democrats should use this as an ad, that's right,

599
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 9: and the administration or the Biden campaign did that. Yeah, well,

600
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 9: so as they should have. It was this is one

601
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 9: of the worst articulations of a of a top line

602
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 9: political message I've ever heard.

603
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: That's really saying something. It's kind of remarkable. Uh yeah, well,

604
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: it's kind of remarkable that the impact that a sense

605
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: of humor can have in a campaign, isn't it? Max

606
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 2: It is.

607
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 10: I mean there's such a sense of doom and dread

608
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 10: in politics now that we've seen for decades. I mean,

609
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 10: an ad that's kind of funny that has a little

610
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 10: bit of humor does a lot. It really makes people

611
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 10: feel more engaged, and I just encourage Republicans to continue

612
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 10: accusing Joe Biden of overachieving. I'm more than happy to

613
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 10: take the criticism.

614
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, I don't know who made this

615
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 2: ad inside the Biden camp, but I suspect they got

616
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: a raise or maybe a promotion for that one. Max,

617
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: does the president need to start moving around the country more?

618
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: Does he need just take August off and let Republican

619
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: candidates beat on each other.

620
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 10: No, I do think that there is a call for

621
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 10: Biden to get out there. I mean, he's still at

622
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 10: his best doing those retail political events, and they're slowly,

623
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 10: I think, getting more comfort. It's almost as if his

624
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 10: campaign doubts his ability to pull these off, but we've

625
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 10: seen him do it many times, and it's to his

626
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 10: benefit to get out there where he's most comfortable.

627
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: We also spent a lot of time doing drive in

628
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: rallies in COVID, so it'll be interesting to see the

629
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: shape that this campaign takes. Max Burns, thank you Lester

630
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: Munson as well. We'll have some final thoughts from our

631
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: panel straight ahead. On this day, the President of Israel

632
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: addresses a joint session of Congress. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington.

633
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast.

634
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

635
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg

636
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa

637
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: from our flagship New York station.

638
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg.

639
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: Eleven thirty.

640
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: Historic moment before a joint session of Congress is the

641
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: President of Israel, Isaac Kurtzog spoke to the chamber. The

642
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: number of Liberal Democrats Progressives were absent, boycotting the speech

643
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: to protest the country's treatment of Palestinians. This after ten

644
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: progressess voted earlier in the week overwhelmingly to break with

645
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: the House majority and decline to back a resolution expressing

646
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: solidarity with the Jewish state. President Herzog's book A short time.

647
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 11: Ago, I'm not oblivious to criticism among friends, including some

648
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 11: expressed by respected members of this House. I respect criticism,

649
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 11: especially from friends, although one does not always have to

650
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 11: accept it.

651
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: From earlier today and a bit of a round of

652
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: applause to some final thoughts now from our panel, Lester

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00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: Munson and Max Burns. A good moment for the Congress,

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Speaker 2: Lester to have the president there. There were questions about

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Speaker 2: why it wasn't the Prime Minister, of course, and then

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Speaker 2: we had a boycott to follow.

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Speaker 9: Well, let's give kudos to President Herzil for such a

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Speaker 9: diplomatic approach to this interesting problem in the relationship, and

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Speaker 9: I think it does highlight the fact that we tend

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Speaker 9: to focus a lot on Republican attitudes about Ukraine and

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00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 9: that kind of thing, justifiably so Democrats have their own

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00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 9: problems with our approach to the world that they've got

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Speaker 9: to sort through. And I think the Biden Whitehouse kind

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Speaker 9: of immediately reaching out to net and Yahoo and trying

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Speaker 9: to be more inclusive with him in response to some

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Speaker 9: of these boycotts is instructive.

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Speaker 2: Max. I'm sorry I have less than a minute here,

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Speaker 2: but was the criticism fair for the president?

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Speaker 10: I mean, was it? I think Biden's in a really

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Speaker 10: tough place because he's trying to please multiple mutually exclusive

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Speaker 10: goals Diplomatically. I think this is a victory for Biden

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Speaker 10: and insuring up the relationship, But domestically, I mean, it

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00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 10: made nobody happy, and I think it's often unhelpful and

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Speaker 10: counterproductive the way some have chosen to engage this, especially

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Speaker 10: if their stated goal is policy changed.

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Speaker 2: Great conversation with Lester Munson and Max Burns. Many thanks

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Speaker 2: to you both for smart insights. Well rejoin this conversation

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Speaker 2: when the Net and Yahoo visit follows. Thanks for listening

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00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if

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Speaker 2: you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and you can find us live every

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Speaker 2: weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com