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Speaker 1: P I Magazine is the most respected magazine of the

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Speaker 1: professional investigator, featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews,

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Speaker 1: today use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's

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Speaker 1: promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius

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Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. The suspect new race

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Speaker 1: on Hudson, even calling the victims his friends. Did you

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Speaker 1: kill Rayshawn Maya and ray shaw I said it? Detectives

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Speaker 1: say the remains were burned beyond recognition, but why were

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Speaker 1: you in her car? It was Warden County Sheriff says

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Speaker 1: Saturay Feel cooperated with him on Saturday and was taken

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Speaker 1: to this rural property where the remains were found as well.

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Speaker 1: Investigators have not named a motive burn skeletal remains on

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Speaker 1: a ranch believed to be a missing Texas couple and

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Speaker 1: their five year old son. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us, with me

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Speaker 1: uh hero and icon. The man who has dedicated his

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Speaker 1: life to finding missing people. Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch,

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Speaker 1: who was on the case. Tim, I can't thank you

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Speaker 1: enough for being with us. I want you to explain

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Speaker 1: to everyone how you got involved in the search for

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Speaker 1: Shawn Hudson, twenty eight years old, Maya Rivera twenty four

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Speaker 1: and they're just beautiful little boy Rashawn Junior just five

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Speaker 1: years old. When the Texas Rangers called me on this search,

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Speaker 1: I actually met with a family Saturday morning and one

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Speaker 1: aunt said that she felt that they were all murdered.

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Speaker 1: The other aunt said, no, they're not being murdered. They're

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Speaker 1: they're being held for some reason or another. And then

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Speaker 1: we talked to the Texas Rangers and then they called

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Speaker 1: us and said, listen, we've got an area. We once

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Speaker 1: you all out there, asked and if you have any

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Speaker 1: sisters bring him, which we've had. We had four sisters.

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Speaker 1: And then we got out there, met with the de

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Speaker 1: Texas and when we were actually digging in that hole,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Uh, when we was bringing debris out of that hole,

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Speaker 1: it would literally catch on fire. And apparently what he

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Speaker 1: did is he? Uh, he dug a hole. He murdered

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Speaker 1: the three of them. Of course, he dug the hole,

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Speaker 1: put their bodies in it, and a little bone fragments

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Speaker 1: and stuff we're finding. He literally with that back hole

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Speaker 1: just crushed and cut their body up, then set it

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Speaker 1: on fire. He put tires on there because tires bins

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Speaker 1: were very hot. Then he put tires on there the

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Speaker 1: next day and the next day and then covered it up,

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Speaker 1: and so you know then and that was the last

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Speaker 1: time I believe he put the tires in and was burning.

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Speaker 1: Was Wednesday, and then satty, Like I said, it was

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Speaker 1: still so hot that when we was digging stuff out

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Speaker 1: and would start flaming again and have put it out

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Speaker 1: with a fire extinguisher. Tim Miller with Texas Equisearch is

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Speaker 1: with me describing how he, you know, blood sweat and tears,

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Speaker 1: trying to locate the bodies of three missing including a

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Speaker 1: five year old little boy we now know killed, body burned.

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Speaker 1: Tim Miller off Texas Equisearch, devoting his life to finding

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Speaker 1: missing people. It's hard for me to to envision, Tim Miller,

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. How you were digging, digging, digging, and

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Speaker 1: as you would dig deep down under the earth, debris

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Speaker 1: would come up still burning. What led you to that

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Speaker 1: particular spot, Tim Miller, Well, the Texas land has actually

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Speaker 1: led us to the spot. And I'm gonna say beplain

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Speaker 1: warton County Sriffs Department Texas rank because they did an

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Speaker 1: excellent job on their investigative then, and of course we

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Speaker 1: know the suspect was very very familiar with that property.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and again I can't say enough about the

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Speaker 1: investigators on this case. And it was, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was trying the best out there. It was emotional. I

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Speaker 1: mean when we shifting and finding bones and they brought

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Speaker 1: the anthropologists out there, and then she had a carp

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Speaker 1: and and the one one area the tar pit was

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Speaker 1: adult male bones and next area was adult female and

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Speaker 1: then of course the next one was child phones. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know the when you see these little crushed up

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Speaker 1: bones and partial parts of skull and you're sifting your

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Speaker 1: fine little chief. Um, you know, we're still here and

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Speaker 1: Nancy and uh, you know a little bit choked up

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Speaker 1: right now. We're the families. What they was going through

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Speaker 1: and then finding their loved ones and being involved in

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Speaker 1: a kind of things like this. It's a it takes

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Speaker 1: a toll on it. I can say that, and you

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Speaker 1: know I just just when you think you see it all.

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Speaker 1: I think I can doing this for eighteen years and

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Speaker 1: I'd plus cases. Just when you think you see it all, Uh,

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Speaker 1: then you're involved in something like this. You know what

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Speaker 1: hurts me to him when I look at when I

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Speaker 1: look at these three in life for Shawn Hudson, Maya Rivera,

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Speaker 1: and they're just beautiful. Little boy Rashawn Jr. Just five

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Speaker 1: years old. I mean, Tim, you and I've been working

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Speaker 1: together since before my children were born, and they are

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Speaker 1: now ten years old. Tim, my son is a little

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Speaker 1: bit taller than me. And I just last night, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were having um, this big casserole I made for supper,

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Speaker 1: chicken and broccoli, and they were talking about what movie

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Speaker 1: we were gonna watch after and I was reading the

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Speaker 1: news and I look at this family and it just

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Speaker 1: breaks my heart of all the joy they will never have.

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Speaker 1: And when I look at them, I mean, the mom

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Speaker 1: is so pretty, and the dad when I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: a picture right now of him holding the little boy

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Speaker 1: up to him, he looks just like his dad. It

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Speaker 1: just breaks my heart is I'm looking at these beautiful

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Speaker 1: photos of them. And I'm hearing you describe the tiny

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Speaker 1: fragments of bone and and the the cover up, the

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Speaker 1: putting the tires on top of the bodies. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's a common theme, Tim Miller, Um, because I was

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Speaker 1: thinking back on the Stephen Every case. You know, the

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Speaker 1: guy that murdered the photographer to raise the hall back,

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Speaker 1: he was putting tires on top of the body and

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Speaker 1: had created a fire pit of sorts. Tim, what is

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Speaker 1: the why do people use tires? Because they burn slow,

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Speaker 1: and they burn extremely hot, and uh, and it keeps it.

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Speaker 1: It keeps the heat for a long time. And and

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Speaker 1: even if we covered it up, uh with the dirt,

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Speaker 1: and it just keeps smolder and smaller and smaller for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time. Like I said, I'm sad.

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Speaker 1: When he was digging stuff up, it would us back

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Speaker 1: out in flames. So when we was digging up, the

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Speaker 1: dirt was hot, the course of the bones were hot,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know. And and the other thing about

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Speaker 1: this fancy is that for Ray Senior, the dad was

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Speaker 1: friends with the suspect. There was times when the suspect

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Speaker 1: was kind of down on the luck. Ray Shawn would

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Speaker 1: let him come to his house instead. At his house

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Speaker 1: he went loaning money and they were friends. They were

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Speaker 1: actually friends, and I got all that information from this family.

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Speaker 1: And but the family also said at the brace, La

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Speaker 1: Mora didn't like the idea that they want friends. He

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Speaker 1: thought there was just something strange about this guy. And

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Speaker 1: of course, now here's the here's a here's a man

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Speaker 1: that helped us buy out every time he was down

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Speaker 1: and out, and then he was suparted by an emerging family,

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Speaker 1: which adds even more um bitterness to the story that

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Speaker 1: the victims were actually helping him. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: what Maya Rivera's mother, Francis says, I sat here in

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Speaker 1: this chair for the last and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: many days just staring at that front door, probably have

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Speaker 1: function in thirty minutes and sleeping, you know, because we

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Speaker 1: hadn't heard anything Tuesday and Wednesday morning, I'd already had assistance.

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Speaker 1: It's not right, something, it's not right. We all were like,

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Speaker 1: at least the baby, at least baby ran his life

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Speaker 1: was stolen. When I found out the skeleton remains, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you burn their bodies? I'm like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: want justice. The last time I saw he said to me, cousin,

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Speaker 1: I love you, and I said I love you too. Man.

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Speaker 1: That was always him. Every time me and him left

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Speaker 1: each other's presence, he said, I love you. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a good memory. It just breaks my heart

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Speaker 1: to hear them. That's Maya's mother, Francis and Rashaun Hudson's cousin,

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Speaker 1: Austin Jonas trying to come to terms with the loss

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Speaker 1: of his very close relative and the family of three.

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Speaker 1: With Me, a man who has dedicated his life to

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Speaker 1: finding missing people. Tim Miller with Texas EQ Research. Also

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Speaker 1: with Me. Detective Christine Menina, who heads the Cadet and

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Speaker 1: Explorer programs and former homicide detective with the Indianapolis Metropolitan

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Speaker 1: Police Department. Her podcast, Menina Files highlights all of her cases,

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Speaker 1: and her novel is due in two thousand nineteen. Patricia Saunders,

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Speaker 1: renowned New York psychologists and crime online dot com reporter

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Sakowsky, Jennifer, tell me what you know about this case,

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Speaker 1: because when you look at a family, you know how

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Speaker 1: on magazines a lot of time they'll have this picture

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Speaker 1: perfect family, and that's this family looks like that. They're

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Speaker 1: just looks so happy together. What do we know what happened, Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: You know Tim Miller had brought the story to my

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Speaker 1: attention and literally I had chills up and down my

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Speaker 1: spine as I looked into it, and like you said,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a story of a beautiful family.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely heartbreaking. I'm going to start with well, as

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Speaker 1: we know, Ray Shawn Senior was friends with the suspect.

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Speaker 1: Ray Shawn Jr. Was named after his dad and Maya

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Speaker 1: Vera's mother. Francis Rivera, told the Houston Chronicle that not

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Speaker 1: only was he named after him, they were both very

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Speaker 1: interested in the same things, like horses and trail riding,

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Speaker 1: and she added in this part really tears at the

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Speaker 1: heart strings that this little boy, Ray Shawn Jr. Would

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Speaker 1: help his grandfather, who suffered from Alzheimer's disease, to remember

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Speaker 1: aims and find bathrooms. Maya Rivera was a licensed massage therapist.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at her Facebook the pages and in

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Speaker 1: January she wrote I have one baby boy who I

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Speaker 1: love more than life. Quote. She talked about being dedicated

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Speaker 1: to her job and caring for people to heal their

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Speaker 1: quote bodied, mind, and spirit. She wrote that she had

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Speaker 1: been through a lot in life, but went on to

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Speaker 1: say how she was able to rise above those challenges

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Speaker 1: that came her way. Maya's mother told the Houston Chronicle

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Speaker 1: that quote, he loved making people feel comfortable and relaxed.

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Speaker 1: She truly sounded like a beautiful human being who was

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Speaker 1: changing her life and the world one day at a time.

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Speaker 1: And then came this dreadful day. Last Monday, friends and

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Speaker 1: family had gathered at a park to celebrate Ray Shawn

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Speaker 1: Jr's fifth birthday with cake and ice cream. It was

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Speaker 1: a little boy's absolute favorite. And you can imagine how

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Speaker 1: excited he was. But this adorable, precious little boy, whose

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Speaker 1: birthday was the very next day, never showed up with

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Speaker 1: his parents. And if you can imagine, the family's loved

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Speaker 1: ones grew extremely concerned. And as this the days passed,

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Speaker 1: they understand, and Blee became more and more anxious. And

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Speaker 1: that is where Robert Staderfield comes in from what Tim

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Speaker 1: Miller said. Tim Miller of Texas ex Search, he was

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Speaker 1: a friend of rage Sean Sr. He let him say

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Speaker 1: at his house during tough times, he loaned money, things

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Speaker 1: like that. And last Thursday morning, the family's car was

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Speaker 1: reported stolen and Robert was picked up in Rosenberg by

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Speaker 1: police in that same car. When authorities authorities questioned him,

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Speaker 1: you know, why do you have this car, he claimed

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Speaker 1: that it was so he could get back and forth

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Speaker 1: from work and that Ray Shawn had loaned him the car.

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Speaker 1: When he was interviewed, and Tim Miller, you know, knows

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Speaker 1: about this, and it's talked a little more about it.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like he panicked when detective talks about being

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Speaker 1: able to opinion him, and you know, the technology is

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Speaker 1: available these days. And he reportedly ended up leading police

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Speaker 1: to where the bodies were. And although you know, the

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Speaker 1: rangers haven't been able to officially identify it them because

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Speaker 1: they were allegedly murdered. And then as we talked about

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Speaker 1: burned and and very just absolutely disgusting face said, they're

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Speaker 1: extremely confident that it is this misteem beautiful family of three.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm, no, M. I don't know. They got me.

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Speaker 1: They got me, pulled me over. My friend m used

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Speaker 1: a vehicle and that's the car I was pulled over in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, all of a sudden, I'm charged with

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Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of evidence they found. I

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Speaker 1: have several interviews with the detectors already nobody's presenting me

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Speaker 1: with nothing. I just got charged with something. You know,

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Speaker 1: did you know about a recent law that could leave

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Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find. If

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Speaker 1: you've turned and on the news lately, you know the

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Speaker 1: Internet has created a dangerous new world. Data breaches exposed

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Speaker 1: and criminals can sell the identity of you and your

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Speaker 1: family on the dart web. It's time you take the

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Speaker 1: power back by using a new website called truth Finder.

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Speaker 1: Truth Finder allows you to find out exactly what information

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Speaker 1: exists about you online. Have you gotten a speeding ticket,

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Speaker 1: received a lean from the I R S, forgotten about

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Speaker 1: an embarrassing social media profile. Truth Finders searchers through millions

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Speaker 1: of public records, puts all that data together and one

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00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 1: easy to read report. Members get unlimited searches, so you

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00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: can also look up those close to you and make

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Speaker 1: sure they're not hiding something from their past. You also

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00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 1: get free dart Web monitoring to make truth Finder the

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00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,560
Speaker 1: ultimate tool in identity protection. If your personal info appears

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Speaker 1: for sale on the dart web, you'll be the first

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Speaker 1: to know. Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter

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Speaker 1: your own name, get started. I was just trying to

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Speaker 1: help him until he so until he got he got

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Speaker 1: enough money of making us making sick, from saving enough

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Speaker 1: thinking is to get his own phone. Please. You know

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Speaker 1: why I would in a little trash, but I knew

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't have been still going on. And then when

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Speaker 1: I saw him in the the girls, the car was here,

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Speaker 1: I said, when you get the car from? He said,

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Speaker 1: what I'm using it for? No? WI. You are hearing

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Speaker 1: from Henry Floyd Sr. Talking about right now the person

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Speaker 1: of interest Robert Saderfield, a man that apparently this young

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Speaker 1: family had been helping out with me, Tim Miller from

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Speaker 1: Texas Aqua Search, Detective Christine Menina, Patricia Saunders, and Jennifer

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Speaker 1: sack out Skin of course, Alan Duke and Jackie Howard

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Speaker 1: with me as well, you know Tim Miller with Texas

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Speaker 1: equ Re Search. Sometimes I feel like we've just seen

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Speaker 1: it all, as you were saying earlier, and then if

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Speaker 1: I and doubt sadly you haven't. And it's hard for

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Speaker 1: me because I'm trying to balance trying to be a

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Speaker 1: good Christian, just trying, certainly failing every day, but trying.

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Speaker 1: And with that doctrine is loving thy neighbor as thyself,

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Speaker 1: trying to help other people in every way that you can.

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Speaker 1: And here we've got this family trying to help this guy.

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Speaker 1: Were there any warning bells that they had to stop?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you want to set a good example for

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Speaker 1: your children. You want them to grow up to be

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Speaker 1: loving and giving and tolerant. But here this guy bit

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Speaker 1: the hand that fed them. Actually, we believe killing the family.

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Speaker 1: And can you imagine, Tim Miller. Everybody there at that

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Speaker 1: local park with the ice cream and the cake and

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Speaker 1: the balloons, and then the boy, a little boy, ray

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Speaker 1: Sean Jr. Doesn't show up, doesn't show up. The mom,

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Speaker 1: the beautiful blue eyes and the long dark hair, doesn't

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Speaker 1: show up, the dad, nobody comes the car and every

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Speaker 1: falling they all go home. I mean, Tim Miller, this

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Speaker 1: family had no idea what was to come. No, they didn't, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And then when I met with the family Saturday morning,

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Speaker 1: and what a wonderful family, and I just can't say

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Speaker 1: enough about them. And when he was out there actually

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Speaker 1: doing the dig, uh, my phone kept ringing in and

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Speaker 1: it was family members calling and I just could not

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Speaker 1: answer the phone. I couldn't tell him what was going on.

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Speaker 1: I had to leave that up to Texas Rangers and

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Speaker 1: in the Sheriff's department to let them know that we

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Speaker 1: was that, you know, we were recovering their remains. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing, Nancy, it's kind of disturbing is with

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Speaker 1: the answer pologists there and as bad as these phones

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Speaker 1: were burned, and when I say earned mean burned, she said,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult at best to even do

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Speaker 1: the DNA to determine who is who. So this family

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Speaker 1: has a long journey ahead of them before their lovedoings

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Speaker 1: are even positively identified. That has got to be pure hell.

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Speaker 1: To Detective Christine Menina podcast The Menina Files and working

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Speaker 1: on her very first novel, Christine, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. That is going to be a huge hurdle

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Speaker 1: for forensics experts because while we think this is the family,

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Speaker 1: we we believe this is Laura Shawn and his parents

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Speaker 1: Maya and Roshawn Hudson Senior, we don't know that and

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Speaker 1: that has got to be proven beyond a past a

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Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Will be u so tough and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, my heart goes out to the family and

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Speaker 1: twudos to everybody involved and in helping to solve this

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Speaker 1: and find them. But yeah, when you start dealing with

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Speaker 1: bodies that have been burned, and especially the way they

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Speaker 1: were burned. Um, Tim Miller, I gotta give you big

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Speaker 1: twudos for assisting in your whole life, you know, with

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Speaker 1: all these difficult cases that yeah, when you you know,

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Speaker 1: I think everybody knows this is his family. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to court file and you get down

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Speaker 1: something to the end of this and you're not able

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Speaker 1: to hundred identify, I think it's it's a lot of challenge.

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Speaker 1: To Jennifer Skowski Crime Online dot Com reporter, this is

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Speaker 1: going to be a painstaking task trying to identify the

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Speaker 1: bodies what we know actually, hold on, jan because Tim Millard,

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Speaker 1: you've been at the scene. The first thing we have

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Speaker 1: to do is try to locate all the bones over

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Speaker 1: two hundred bones and human body, uh, right down to

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Speaker 1: the tiny digits at the tip of your baby, your

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Speaker 1: pinky finger. Once they assemble the bones, if they can,

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Speaker 1: then since they've been charred, oh no, since they have

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Speaker 1: been charred, since they've been charged to this extent, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what DNA is left in the bones. I

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Speaker 1: hear you talking Tim, you explained to me the condition

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Speaker 1: of the remains. The condition of the remains were just

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Speaker 1: crushed up bones, tiny bones. I think we only got

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Speaker 1: probably five bones that were than three long bones, fragments

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Speaker 1: chief not many teeth. And I just could never imagine

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Speaker 1: bodies being burnt that bad. Like she said, there's you

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Speaker 1: learn in a human body, so you know we should

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Speaker 1: have bones. We don't have anything close to that, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: we don't have anything close to that. The identification of

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Speaker 1: extremely burnt human remains by genetic fingerprinting DNA is a

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Speaker 1: common task because so often um people try desperately to

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Speaker 1: cover up their crimes by burning the bodies, but rarely

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Speaker 1: can they burn the bodies to the extent these three

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Speaker 1: bodies have been burned. DNA extractor from burnt bone fragments

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Speaker 1: is going to be highly degraded. Now, what you do

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Speaker 1: when you do a d N a comparison is you amplify,

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Speaker 1: you replicate the DNA you've got until you can make

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Speaker 1: a comparison, a comparison to what that's when you go

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Speaker 1: into the home and you get the toothbrush, you get

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Speaker 1: the drinking glasses, you get the hair brush. To look

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Speaker 1: for nuclei roots in the hair to compare to whatever

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Speaker 1: DNA you can extract, that's not going to be the problem.

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Speaker 1: You could also get familial DNA from the believed victims

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Speaker 1: parents family, mitochondrial DNA from their mother. We already have

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Speaker 1: the one mother speaking out. We know we can get

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Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA. The problem is can you extract DNA from

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Speaker 1: burnt burnt black, burnt blue gray, burnt blue, gray, white,

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Speaker 1: burnt bones. That is going to be the problem. Plenty

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Speaker 1: DNA to compare it to, but extracting it, how do

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Speaker 1: you do that? Think about when you have a fire,

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Speaker 1: a fire, you're you're grilling hot dogs, you're you're camping

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Speaker 1: with your children, and the ashes burning, burning, burn, and

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Speaker 1: nothing is left but charred, blue, gray, or white remains.

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Speaker 1: That is what they are looking at. There is a

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Speaker 1: way to do it. The results may vary. They may

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Speaker 1: have to rely on circumstantial evidence. Tim Miller, what else,

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Speaker 1: if anything was found at the scene, I mean that

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Speaker 1: was it? The In fact, the back that she used

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Speaker 1: was the basically a relative from what I understand of

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Speaker 1: his best suspect has twins children and the grandfriend grandfather

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Speaker 1: on that property. The backpole was actually on that property.

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Speaker 1: So you know, he used the back hole that was

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Speaker 1: that was on that property, and then from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: the grandfather actually threw him off of that property. Tim

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Speaker 1: were skulls found? Uh, skulls? You know? One piece of

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Speaker 1: skull was found that appeared to him a little bit

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Speaker 1: with the answer probered to send a little bit of brain.

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Speaker 1: But it was a small, small piece, maybe two inches

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Speaker 1: two inches. Like I said, it appears as though he

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Speaker 1: took that buck into that back hole, crushed and crushed

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Speaker 1: and crushed. Wow. So he did not only burn the

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Speaker 1: bodies but allegedly crushed them with the back COO. You know,

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Speaker 1: in cases where bodies have been burnt, very often you

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Speaker 1: fall back au dental records. That's why I asked, what

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Speaker 1: were there any skulls into you're telling me no, we

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Speaker 1: probably we found probably three maybe four bones that were

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Speaker 1: more than three inches long. That's how bad it was crushed.

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Speaker 1: That's how bad it was burned. When I say bone fragments,

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Speaker 1: I mean so you're not going to have any enough

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Speaker 1: teeth to make a dental comparison. There's likely not going

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Speaker 1: to be a DNA comparison. Although that soft tissue you

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Speaker 1: mentioned is the possibility you can't get fingerprints in any way.

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Speaker 1: There's not gonna be tissue to use, so it's going

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Speaker 1: to be extremely difficult. If the charring had only been

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Speaker 1: on the surface of the body, so just when an

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Speaker 1: accelerant is used, that would be okay. We could still

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Speaker 1: make an I D. But this sounds like crematory like temperatures.

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Speaker 1: So I'm rapidly thinking as quickly as I can, Tim Miller,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a circumstantial case. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about the area where the bodies were found, Tim Miller,

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00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: and what it was like when you first went to

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Speaker 1: the scene. What you observed A huge jerry. I don't

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00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: know how many there's lots are because there's two mobile

401
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: homes kind of like up front, and then a gravel

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00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: road that goes down and goes down a little kill

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Speaker 1: and h and he's got cows out there in that property,

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00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: and that's where he dug the hole, and minute to

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Speaker 1: go back another probably half a mile. There's another little

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00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: kind of metal building out there that's got some electricity

407
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: in it, but it's extremely isolated where he did it.

408
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: Of course, he couldn't be seen. Um you know, how

409
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Speaker 1: he got in there and did all this with a

410
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: grandfather on that property. I don't know. I'd be willing

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Speaker 1: to bet this is not the primary crime scene. I

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Speaker 1: bet he. I put money on it that he murdered

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Speaker 1: this family dad, first, mother's second child, third at a

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Speaker 1: different location and brought the bodies there. Now, the reason

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing no part of the investigation is I think

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Speaker 1: this time answer tell me no. I think evidence is

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Speaker 1: going to lead that they were murdered that property. How

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Speaker 1: did he lure them there? You know I can't go

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Speaker 1: in to investigate a uh you know that will come up. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me go to Jennifer Zakowski, Crime online dot Com reporter.

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Speaker 1: The reason I thought this to be a secondary crime scene,

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Speaker 1: i e. Where he disposed of the bodies is how

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Speaker 1: would you lure an entire family out there? Because that

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00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense to me. But Tim has been

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Speaker 1: on the scene. He knows their friends friends, Jennifer, what

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00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: do you know? They were friends side? They are friends,

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Speaker 1: And the circumstances of how the family ended up on

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Speaker 1: the land they aren't really known at this time. Unfortunately,

429
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: though it sounds like they have may have been meeting

430
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: up with Robert Saderfield again, you know, for reasons unknown.

431
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: But they were friends, so meeting would not have been

432
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: so unusual. But what that meeting was about, we just

433
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: don't know yet, So possibly luring them out there for

434
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: a meeting. Um. A few, very few teeth have been found,

435
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: according to Tim Miller, joining us from Texas EQ with

436
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: search now, teeth typically offer great potential to get d

437
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: N a sampling. Um, what you do is you go

438
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: to the very center of the tooth for DNA while

439
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: the outside may be burned to a charred on the

440
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: center of the tooth very often you can find d NA. Again,

441
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: If that doesn't exist here, we're gonna have to fall

442
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: back on circumstantial evidence that these are their bodies. What

443
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: will that be? Yes, I'm sorry for they lost, you know,

444
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 1: I hope the real persons found And um, you know,

445
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: I pray and I and I'm grief strip striking with

446
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: him as well. Um, and why not seem like I'm

447
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: going through a whole another storm myself. But you know

448
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: I feel that pain. Did you can't? Ray Sean Maya

449
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: and Ray Shawan Jr. I just said I did not

450
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: do it? Now, why were you in her heart? Um?

451
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: It was agreement that we had and they came. They

452
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: were going out of town. They came and had another vehicle. Um,

453
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: they put the things out of the silver about out

454
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: of the grabber and put it in the black vehicle,

455
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: and UM, I was gonna use that vehicle to go

456
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: see my son in Dallas. This past weekend, you were

457
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of person of interest, Robert Saderfield and

458
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: the brutal death of a beautiful young mom, her little

459
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: five year old bull boy, and the husband, Rashawn Senior,

460
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: all dead. They didn't show up for the five year

461
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: old birthday party at a local park, complete with birthday cake,

462
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: ice cream, balloons, the works. Everybody was actually gathered there waiting.

463
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: They didn't show up. Their bodies, we believe, were found

464
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: burned and buried with us. Tim Miller from Texas Equisearch,

465
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: who says that as he was performing the dig uh,

466
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: debris will come up still burning. Patricia Saunders joining me

467
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: were now New York psychologist listening to Robert Centerfield, who

468
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: is the police target right now. He seems to have

469
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: an answer for everything, even driving the dead mom's car,

470
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: and he he just says it's so easily just rolls

471
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: off his tongue pat where it's the ease with which

472
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: he says that that um maybe ion in the fact

473
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: that this man has no empathy, no compassion, and no guilt. Um.

474
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: Obviously he prepared his story, but maybe dealing with a

475
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: Homi satal psychopath. You know what's interesting, Tim Miller from

476
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: Texas Psycho Search telling us that they had befriended center Field,

477
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: They helped him out. Uh, they loaned him money, They

478
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: were trying to give him a hand, Tim Miller, what

479
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: more do you know about that aspect of this investigation. Well,

480
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: the aunt told me Saturday morning when when he was

481
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: pulled over in the car and they asked him what

482
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: he was doing driving a car. He said, well, they

483
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: loaned me the car to get back and forth and work,

484
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: and then they drove away in uh Ra sans black Hub. Well,

485
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: but little did they know that Rayel unfortunately got an

486
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: accident three weeks prior to that in the Milish So

487
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: we're alive. The first words was picked up for but

488
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: we know also Francis Rivera, who was just speaking this.

489
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: Maya's mother says she grows grew worried the week before

490
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: when the three didn't show up for a Shawn Junior's

491
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: fifth birthday party. They're in the park with cake and

492
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: ice cream that she can't stand and think of the

493
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: wise and the winds regarding their death, I e. The details,

494
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: and she hopes to bury the three of them together

495
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: once the remains are officially identified to Detective Christine menina Um,

496
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: former Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department homicide detective, what do we

497
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: do now, Christine? Well, and I'll tell you this case

498
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: is I've had a fund at them before too, but

499
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: nothing to this degree. Were identification was going to be

500
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: so difficult, and I have to agree with you, it's

501
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: going to be a circumstantial It'll be interesting to get

502
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: more information about the suspects that was friends and and

503
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: kind of developed that relationship and see, you know why

504
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: why they were there And at first, uh like what

505
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: you said, Nancy, I kind of agree that at the

506
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: time probably happened somewhere else and they were reinsported. But

507
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: with what Tim is saying, there's obviously a little bit

508
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: more information of why they got there. I mean, did

509
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: he say he had a birthday gift for him? You know,

510
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: It'll just be interesting to see what kind of kind

511
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: of you know, friendship was developed, but as far as

512
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: what happens now, I mean, it's just gonna take a

513
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: ton of work to try to get the pieces together again.

514
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: It's going to be a circumstantial case. Probably. It's that

515
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: based on the information that Jim was kind of described

516
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: me today, and just try to give something right to

517
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: the family. Um, you know, I think you're seen with

518
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: what I'm saying that I want to know the whos

519
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: and the wise and I think eventually they probably will, um,

520
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: you know, but they're in such shock, and I think

521
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: it's just it's just a heartbreaking thing here in this beautiful,

522
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: beautiful family and and being missing before the burson. I mean,

523
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: I don't think this get me work, and I do.

524
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: You think you've seen it all, you know, and then

525
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: you get a case like this. You know what's interesting though,

526
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: Jennifer Zikowski Crime online dot Com. Hold on, I hope

527
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: you're sitting down, Jennifer. This guy, Robert Saderfield has stated quote,

528
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: it may not seem like it, but I'm going through

529
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: a whole other storm myself. I feel their pain. Referring

530
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: to the three victims, he feels their pain and the

531
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: pain of their their families. What do we know, Jennifer

532
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: Skowski about Robert Sadderfield? What could have possibly been the motive?

533
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: What is his history? What, if anything do we know? Yes,

534
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Robert Saderfield from what you just said and the things

535
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: that he said regarding this family, to me, that describes

536
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: a psychopath. And when you look at his criminal history,

537
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: that could very well be his Court records show a

538
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: fifteen year criminal history for Robert that includes theft, assault,

539
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: avating the arrest, and terroristic threat charges. So this is

540
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: not his first rodeo with the law. Wow, do you

541
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: hear that? To Tim Miller joining me with Texas Equisearch?

542
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: This guy Sadderfield fifteen year criminal that we know of theft, assault,

543
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: evading arrest, terroristic threat. Tim Miller, I'm just trying to

544
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: imagine you you going onto that scene. How did you

545
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: go about conducting the dig? To start with? Well, the

546
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: detectives were there when we got there, and they had

547
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: one sifter that they was sifting through, and then we

548
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: brought four other sifters, and uh, what is a sifter? Well,

549
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: let's actually when we showed the dirt into a screen basically,

550
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: and then we shake it and the dirt falls out

551
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: and then a bigger pieces stay in and so actually

552
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: had our hands and there sinking through the stuff and

553
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: then picking up the little bones giving them to the anthropologists,

554
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: and then watching her try to put things back together.

555
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: And and again it was when you've seen the three

556
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: little piles was trying to put back together, and then

557
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: the the baby piles, the child piles. It was like,

558
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's this really really is this really happy?

559
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: I mean? And you know what again, when I left

560
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: it just having like tears out of my eyes and

561
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: and just say, oh my god. You know, there's family

562
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 1: is now going through the worst time I could ever

563
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: go through. How do they get through a grieving process

564
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: such as this and and such a neatly such a

565
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: close family doing trail rights and horses and um, you know,

566
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: a love and family? I don't they love and family?

567
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: After meeting the other family members, and you know that's

568
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: not always the case. You know, you don't see very

569
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: many functional families in the world today, and I certainly

570
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: considered them as one. And uh uh, you know, how

571
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: do you have words? I mean, there's no for comfort

572
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: you can even give this family right now, except like

573
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: you say, Nancy, we feel their pain. Uh, we've been there,

574
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: we know what they're going through. But again there's there's

575
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: no words of comfort. All we can do is just

576
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: through difficult time experience in my life. It's amazing to me,

577
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: Tim Miller, that as you were digging, as you were

578
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: sifting to try to find these bodies, that debris would

579
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: come up still burning. And another fact that I know

580
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: is this witness, Henry Floyd's senior states that he noticed

581
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: something strange that suddenly this guy, Robert Centerfield, had a

582
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: brand new car or new to him, and that he

583
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: observed center Field burning trash for a really long time

584
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: and thought it was suspicious that he should still be

585
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: burning trash, that it was still going on. You know,

586
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: it takes an incredibly long time for a human body

587
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: to earn in its entirety, and I'd be willing to

588
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: put money on that's exactly what he was doing out there.

589
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: This witness says he sees Centerfield in the missing Mom's

590
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: car and said, where'd you get the car? And center

591
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: Field responds, quote, I'm using it for a while now

592
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 1: right there. Patricia Saunders, New York Psychologists, he wouldn't answer.

593
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: He didn't answer. He just said I'm using it for

594
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: a while. He didn't say where he got it? Uh,

595
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: did he buy it? Did? Where did he buy it? Nothing?

596
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: He gave a very vague answer. And I find that

597
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: telling Patricia Saunders psychopaths aren't necessarily very smart, but ad

598
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: And that's world professionals, and you guys have seen a

599
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: lot more than I have. It's something I learned asking

600
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: nine eleven, is that anybody caregivers Texas Core Investigators, um,

601
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: Tim Miller, we only a little bit ways of plettle

602
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: of steaming trauma debriefing, and it's something that really needs

603
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: to be funded for any kind of lacrossing person. Right now,

604
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: we know Patricia, Jennifer Christine Tim that he has been charged,

605
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: but the case will not hold up unless those bodies

606
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: can be identified. Unless there's circumstantial evidence to prove circumstantially

607
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: that these are the victims, Tim Miller, Texas equ Research.

608
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: They're on the scene, having been part of the recovery

609
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: and the dig the excavation. Do you get the sense

610
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: without revealing police information, do you get the sense they're

611
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: going to be able to prove these are the three victims?

612
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: I think they're going to do with the very best effort.

613
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, technology has come a long ways. Uh,

614
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, there was some bone marrow in some of

615
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: these phones, and I anticipate they will be identified that

616
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: it's going to be a long time. Joining us actually

617
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: from the airport leaving is Tim Miller with Texas equ

618
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: Research Detective Christine Menina, Patricia Sauners, and Jennifer Sakowski Crime

619
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: online dot Com reporter. What can you tell me, um

620
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: about the investigation? We know that center Field was linked

621
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: to the property, and we know that he was connected

622
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: to the family, So that's strong circumstantial evidence right there.

623
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: But what else do we know about the investigation itself?

624
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: Robert was charged with three cones of murder and originally

625
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: being held on a three hundred and five thousand our bond,

626
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: but I'm happy to report that his bail has been

627
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: increased to five dred thousand dollars for each victim, making

628
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: it one five millions. There were also notes that those

629
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: charges may be upgraded to capital murder charges, which, as

630
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: we know in the state of Texas, could mean the

631
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: death penalty. We wait as justice and folds in this case.

632
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: To Tim Miller, Texas Equisearch Detective Christine Menina, renowned New

633
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: York psychologist, Pat Saunders, and Jennifer Sikowski Crime online dot

634
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: Com reporter. I want to thank you, and I'm still

635
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: thinking about this little boy nicknamed Baby Ray, who loved

636
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 1: his dad so much that he would mimic his dad

637
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: and try to ride horses and go trail riding. Whatever

638
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: his dad did hated too. Yeah, we wait now for

639
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: their bodies to be identified before the family and relatives

640
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: can even begin planning a funeral to put this family

641
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Speaker 1: to rest. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.

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Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal

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