1
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, March third, and guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty,

2
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 1: twenty seven times over. A jury in Georgia has found

3
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,439
Speaker 1: a dad criminally responsible for his son shooting up a

4
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,800
Speaker 1: school with that Welcome to this episode of Amy and

5
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: TJ Roapes. This is the case people were watching, not

6
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: just because of this, but the implications down the road.

7
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 1: And this jury did not take long to figure this out.

8
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 2: I have to say I was frankly surprised, not just

9
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,200
Speaker 2: at all the guilty verdicts, because this is the first

10
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,040
Speaker 2: time we have seen a father charged with second degree murder.

11
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,960
Speaker 2: There is a previous case that we can talk about

12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 2: from a year ago where they were found guilty of manslaughter,

13
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 2: but second degree murder four charges or four counts of

14
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 2: that in addition to manslaughter and so many other charges

15
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 2: as you mentioned in twenty seven to be.

16
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 3: Specific.

17
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, less than two hours, less than two hours,

18
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,360
Speaker 2: after two weeks of testimony, there was a lot to digest.

19
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 2: Colin Gray even took the stand in his own defense,

20
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 2: his daughter took the stand, his I guess estranged wife

21
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:17,360
Speaker 2: took the stand.

22
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:18,759
Speaker 3: That's a lot to.

23
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 2: Process and to go through and they were quick and decisive.

24
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be a reason they were quick and

25
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,320
Speaker 1: decisive that we'll get into here in a second as well.

26
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 1: But Colin Gray, of folks who remember this was the shooting,

27
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: this is the dad we're talking about. The Sun is

28
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: cult fourteen years old, accused of and he is still

29
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: in jail. That's something else was wild. The dad has

30
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 1: been held responsible for the shooting that the Sun hasn't

31
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: even been found guilty of yet. But this is where

32
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 1: we are. But yes, the shooting was in two thousand

33
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 1: and four at a high school just north of Atlanta,

34
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 1: in September of twenty twenty four, Appalachi High School there.

35
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,559
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, bro Again, we've seen so many

36
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: school shootings. We have seen some parents at least held accountable,

37
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, Robes. This is important to keep an eye

38
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 1: on because we're probably gonna have more school shootings and

39
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: this is Is it possible this could help cut down

40
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,800
Speaker 1: on or prevent even one because parents now are going

41
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: who whah, whoa, Let me pay attention to my own

42
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,799
Speaker 1: child and lock this gun up.

43
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that may be the hope. I've read

44
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,800
Speaker 2: a statistic based on this case and looking back at

45
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 2: school shootings. They said three out of every four school shootings,

46
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,000
Speaker 2: the gun that was used was found in the family home.

47
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 2: So yes, this is a serious issue. And look, this

48
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 2: is in an area of the country. This is winder Georgia.

49
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 2: This is right by Athens, Georgia. My brother lives in Winder.

50
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,160
Speaker 2: I am very familiar with this community. You've even seen

51
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 2: the area. It's bucolic, You've got a lot of hunters,

52
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 2: a lot of farmers. But guns are a big way

53
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 2: of life in this part of the world. And this

54
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 2: is about a lot where fathers will give their sons guns,

55
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 2: they'll go hunting together. And that was the story that

56
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,359
Speaker 2: Colin Gray's attorney was trying to paint for this jury,

57
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,040
Speaker 2: that this is a father who was trying to connect

58
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 2: with his troubled son. He found something that his son

59
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 2: actually liked and was good at, and this was a

60
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 2: way for them to bond. In no way did he

61
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 2: think that this was going to lead to the tragedy

62
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 2: it led to.

63
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 3: But that was the defense's.

64
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 2: Version of why and how Colt Gray had access to

65
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 2: this gun that was not locked up, that was not

66
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 2: and that isn't against Georgia law.

67
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,119
Speaker 3: By the way, and people have pointed that out.

68
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: That's not the if. That wasn't the point that you said.

69
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: The shortest and simplest and most common sense thing ever

70
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,160
Speaker 1: had a troubled son let me bond with him by

71
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 1: putting a gun in his hand. That sounds insane, it

72
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 1: does when you put it that simply, but they did.

73
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: They went over story after story after story, and this

74
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 1: kid's background brought people in who had whatever kind of

75
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 1: experience with him. They showed his there was nothing robes about.

76
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: Anyone who spent time with him was aware well the

77
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,600
Speaker 1: problems he had. This was not something he was hiding.

78
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: This kid was even violent with his own with his

79
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 1: own family, So the jury was not buying it. And

80
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 1: then he gave him a gun for what Christmas? And

81
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: then he wasn't supposed to use it to it he

82
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 1: was late? What was that?

83
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,760
Speaker 2: So they were trying to split hairs, in my opinion,

84
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,679
Speaker 2: and the jury didn't buy it because the prosecution was saying,

85
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 2: what does this dad do when he knows his son

86
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 2: is in trouble and has gone back and forth between

87
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 2: mom's home, who, by the way, is a drug addict,

88
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 2: and she testified and that wasn't known fact, she was incredible.

89
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 3: She was suffering from a.

90
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: Meth addiction actually during this period of time. So we

91
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 2: ended up going back and forth between his mom's home

92
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 2: and his dad's home.

93
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 3: So what does his dad do on Christmas morning? Last present?

94
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 2: Wraps up a gun and then, according to the defense,

95
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,599
Speaker 2: he says, now, this isn't actually yours until you've earned

96
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 2: the right to.

97
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 3: Actually have it and you come of age.

98
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 2: But come on, you give your fourteen year old son

99
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,279
Speaker 2: a gun at Christmas and say this isn't a gift

100
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:15,920
Speaker 2: that's yours.

101
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 3: That was a tough pill to swallow.

102
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,719
Speaker 1: So, yes, the jury didn't buy it. But maybe the

103
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,159
Speaker 1: courtroom today, I guess we were a little surprised that

104
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: the verdict. We got word that the verdict was coming

105
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: because the jury just got instructions yesterday. They just got

106
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,280
Speaker 1: closing arguments yesterday, and we're supposed to come in and

107
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,360
Speaker 1: start fresh, and they started this morning and they were

108
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 1: done in two hours. On what is or it feels

109
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: like a complicated case, But they heard a lot of

110
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 1: evidence and twenty seven counts that seemed like a lot

111
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: of robes. They were not buying it at all. The

112
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,040
Speaker 1: color from the courtroom today I didn't see him bat nye.

113
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 2: He did not react at all, you know, I noticed,

114
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 2: So it doesn't. It always works a little bit differently

115
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 2: in different courtrooms. But the judge had kind of set

116
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,080
Speaker 2: the saying, when the jury comes in, they're going to

117
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:03,960
Speaker 2: hand the verdict over to me.

118
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to read it.

119
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to call up counsel, the prosecution and the

120
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 2: defense and let them read it, and then it's going

121
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 2: to be announced. I saw after the prosecution or the

122
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 2: prosecutor looked at the sheet, she looked back at her

123
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,159
Speaker 2: team and gave a nod, and I knew in that

124
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 2: moment that he was going to be found guilty.

125
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,000
Speaker 1: How often do we see that? I am not used

126
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 1: to that taking place. That Okay, the jury, Yeah, sure,

127
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,480
Speaker 1: the judge will see the verdict first, but to call

128
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: them I'm trying to think of a single time I've

129
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 1: seen that. What was that about.

130
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,960
Speaker 2: I've never seen that before, And it was weird because

131
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,159
Speaker 2: now it was as if I mean, I'm sure, if

132
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,599
Speaker 2: I'm Colin Gray, I'm staring, yes.

133
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: Figured it out.

134
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 2: I'm staring at the prosecution and the defense deceive if

135
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,919
Speaker 2: there's any reaction when they read it, and she clearly

136
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 2: gave a reaction of we got this.

137
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: You didn't give the I didn't hear him give the

138
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 1: attorney's instructions to also not react. But how can you

139
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: not as a human being. You're looking at two people

140
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: who are in different sizes. You look at a sheet

141
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 1: of paper. One of you got good news, one of

142
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 1: you got bad news. I promise you I can tell yes.

143
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 2: And so that is so I was saying, maybe that's

144
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 2: why when they actually did the reading, he didn't react

145
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,440
Speaker 2: because he already knew what was happening. But yeah, he

146
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,840
Speaker 2: was stonefaced, he was stoic. He but after all the

147
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 2: emotion of what he went through to watch your own

148
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 2: thirteen year old daughter testify against you and say even

149
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: she saw this coming, he has been through the ringer.

150
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 2: I mean to me, as a parent, knowing that your

151
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 2: child committed the horrific act that he did, knowing that

152
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 2: he's going to prison for the rest of his life,

153
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 2: knowing that your daughter just testified against you and your

154
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 2: marriage is I mean, he has been through And I'm

155
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 2: not comparing at all the suffering that these poor you know,

156
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 2: families have gone through, who lost children, lost loved ones,

157
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: two teachers, two students and so many others injured. But

158
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 2: I would just imagine he's probably at this point vacant

159
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: of emotion.

160
00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 3: You'd almost have to be to survive.

161
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 1: And the thing about it robes and again, we always

162
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: stare at the defendant to see if they're going to react.

163
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: I never saw anything, and there was a lot of

164
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to see something because of how they had to

165
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: read the jury verdicts. There were so many, so it

166
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: was very repetitive. Count fifteen cruelty to children guilty, Count

167
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: sixteen cruelty to a child guilty. So they really did

168
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 1: go through twenty seven lines like that, and it took

169
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 1: a while, and so we had a long time to

170
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 1: stare at him on a camera and an opportunity for

171
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: him to react at some point. But after you hear

172
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 1: the first guilty, I guess you know what's coming. But

173
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,960
Speaker 1: it was a long list of stuff.

174
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think maybe he even had an I

175
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 2: kind of I kind of even glazed over because you

176
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 2: obviously knew what was coming. You weren't expecting there to

177
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 2: be a not guilty sandwiched in there. I mean, maybe

178
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 2: he thought but if the biggest charges which were read

179
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,319
Speaker 2: first second degree murder and then manslaughter.

180
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 3: If he was guilty on those counts.

181
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 2: It just seems almost certain that he would be guilty

182
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 2: on all the other counts. And so yeah, there was

183
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 2: a long, long period of time where he just had

184
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 2: to sit there and listen, as you said, off the top.

185
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 3: Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.

186
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: One other thing that's on my mind remembering this, right,

187
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 1: was he seated?

188
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're usually standing. Everything was different in this

189
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,680
Speaker 2: in this courtroom for whatever reason.

190
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 1: Georgia different down there, and Georgia they do.

191
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: And a lot of eyes were on Georgia do because

192
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 2: of what this case implies for other cases that are

193
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 2: waiting in the wings and certainly going forward. You know,

194
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,080
Speaker 2: the silver lining would be if parents who are gun owners,

195
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 2: who see their children struggling mentally, emotionally, actually look at

196
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 2: this case and I know, no one thinks their child

197
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 2: is capable of this. We even heard when the defense

198
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 2: was giving the closing arguments. How could Colin have known

199
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 2: what was going to happen? Even his own mother didn't

200
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 2: think that he was capable of this, Although his own

201
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,319
Speaker 2: mother did call the school and give the school a

202
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 2: heads up that she was concerned about her son. That day,

203
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 2: and sadly they're just they didn't react in time to

204
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,959
Speaker 2: stop him. He was already in the bathroom, I believe

205
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 2: when he called, assembling the gun and getting ready to

206
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,880
Speaker 2: come out, and they just didn't get him in time.

207
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 2: But look, I thought this was a very compelling point

208
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: that the prosecution made in their closing arguments. They said

209
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,839
Speaker 2: they compared Colin to a parent who gives their child alcohol,

210
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 2: a beer or whatever, alcohol and keys to the car.

211
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 2: You have to accept responsibility at that point. She compared

212
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 2: what he did to that by giving his troubled son

213
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:42,959
Speaker 2: a gun.

214
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think because I remember what you're talking about,

215
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: and I thought it was a good analogy as well,

216
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 1: you're not. I think it was the car versus the alcohol.

217
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 1: She was maybe you're not in trouble for giving your

218
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 1: child a car. You're not in trouble for your child

219
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 1: driving and maybe hitting and killing somebody. You're not in

220
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 1: trouble because you gave him the car. But now you

221
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 1: give him a six pack. That was the thing, so

222
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 1: they said, And I thought it was that's funny that

223
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 1: that thing stood out to both of us. The point

224
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 1: she was making that no, it's not necessarily that you

225
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 1: gave him a gun. It's who you gave the gun too.

226
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 1: Knowing what was or possibly going to happen. You made

227
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,040
Speaker 1: this now a dangerous situation. She was effective in that one.

228
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 2: I think every parent that is where it hits. And

229
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 2: I don't know what the makeup of the jury was,

230
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 2: how many of them were parents. I was thinking about

231
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,120
Speaker 2: this like, are you as a jury member looking at

232
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 2: it as a parent, thinking oh no, if I find

233
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 2: this man guilty, this parent guilty. Am I now saying

234
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,840
Speaker 2: all parents are responsible for all bad acts of their

235
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 2: children if they're miners and under their care. But that

236
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,080
Speaker 2: isn't what this case was about. And I think the

237
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 2: prosecution did a good job about making it very specific

238
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 2: and saying basically, hey, you out there, who a parent

239
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 2: would you give your children?

240
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,839
Speaker 3: Load them up with alcohol, and then give them the

241
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,040
Speaker 3: keys and say good luck.

242
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 2: So I think everyone could look at it from that

243
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 2: very specific scenario and think absolutely not and comparing it

244
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,880
Speaker 2: to that I think was very effective.

245
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 1: And you know, and that might be the thing Robes.

246
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 1: This could make a difference. This could be a big deal,

247
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,200
Speaker 1: and this was a big story, and if it causes

248
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 1: more parents out there to Yes, keep a close eye

249
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: on your kid and what they're up to, and take

250
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 1: it seriously when you see something suspicious, and even not

251
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 1: that just be shouldn't we all be damn sure if

252
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,559
Speaker 1: we got kids in the house, they do not have

253
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,439
Speaker 1: an opportunity at all to access a gun if we

254
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,040
Speaker 1: don't want them to.

255
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 3: Yes.

256
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 2: I think as a parent and someone who yes, who

257
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 2: has gone through some of those difficult teen years, we

258
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 2: are responsible for what our kids do and what we

259
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 2: give them, and how we treat them and recognizing signs.

260
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 3: That's part of our job as parents. For sure. I

261
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 3: do hope that this does send a message.

262
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 1: It could, This could actually make a difference. Again, this

263
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: is happening now, but it's not the first. We have

264
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,199
Speaker 1: had other cases and another you are going to remember

265
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,679
Speaker 1: that set precedent for this type of thing. Yes, this

266
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: is the first parent held responsible, and there are other

267
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,880
Speaker 1: cases out there pending. We'll get into those and what

268
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 1: happens next in the case in Georgia, to the dad

269
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: and to the son, stay here.

270
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 3: Welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ.

271
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 2: We are talking about the guilty verdicts that just came

272
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 2: down in the case out of winder Georgia. Colin Gray,

273
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 2: fifty five year old parent to Colt Gray, held criminally

274
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 2: responsible significantly so convicted four counts of second degree murder,

275
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 2: four counts of manslaw, and dozens of other counts of

276
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 2: cruelty to children, etc. Found guilty on all counts because

277
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 2: his fourteen year old son at the time, the fourteen

278
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 2: year old son shot and killed four people, two students,

279
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 2: two teachers at that high school in winder Georgia, and

280
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: injured dozens of others. And yes, he has now been

281
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 2: held criminally responsible and right now, just on the second

282
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 2: degree murder charges, he is facing thirty years behind bars.

283
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 3: Some folks have done the math.

284
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 2: And said he's actually looking at if you look at

285
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 2: all the guilty counts that he was found guilty of

286
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 2: he was convicted of, he could be facing up to

287
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty years behind bars. His sentencing has

288
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 2: been deferred. We don't have a sentencing date yet. Who

289
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 2: knows what the judge is going to do, if they're

290
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 2: going to actually throw the book at him and give

291
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 2: him the maximum, which would basically be life in prison.

292
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 2: But this is serious. This isn't a slap on the wrist.

293
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 2: This isn't you should have known better. This is Colin

294
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 2: Gray never getting out of prison.

295
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 1: Get They are saying, those kids would be alive, those

296
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 1: teachers would be alive had it not been for your actions.

297
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Robes, that's that's uh No, he didn't pull

298
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 1: the trigger, but man, he sure teat that kid up.

299
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 1: Is what they're saying with his message. And it is

300
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: still remarkable to me that he could be convicted before

301
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 1: the son.

302
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he already the son by the way, Colt,

303
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 2: I guess he would be fifteen now or so, but

304
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 2: he's still young, obviously being charged as an adult in

305
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,120
Speaker 2: this case. But he doesn't even have a trial date.

306
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 2: He has a hearing, I believe next month, but that's.

307
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 3: It, just a pre trial hearing. We don't have even

308
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 3: a trial date, said Yees.

309
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 2: So it's interesting prosecutors in Georgia chose to go after

310
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 2: the father first before the son. I don't know the

311
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 2: reasoning behind that, or the thinking behind that.

312
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't know the legalities behind that. It seems odd

313
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,040
Speaker 1: that he's been held responsible for a crime and the

314
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: son hasn't been held responsible for that crime. How could

315
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 1: the I don't know what's going to happen in the

316
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: trial line of weird things happened, he would I, I

317
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: don't get that. I need to ask lawyer about that.

318
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean because the only other case, and you

319
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 2: reference this when we went to break there is one

320
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 2: case out of Michigan where this was Oxford High School

321
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,600
Speaker 2: the shooting. The school shooting happened in twenty twenty one.

322
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 2: It actually is eerily similar to this case. Four people

323
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 2: died and the shooter was a fifteen year old student

324
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 2: named Ethan Plumley. Both of his parents were held accountable.

325
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 2: They were only charged and convicted with four counts of manslaughter,

326
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 2: but they were and are at least the first parents

327
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 2: ever convicted in a mass shooting and again bottom a

328
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 2: gun ignored the warning signs.

329
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 3: Very very similar case.

330
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: But their son Ethan pleaded guilty, so he was already

331
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: and is already in prison for the rest of his life.

332
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 2: And that happened before they brought his par parents to court,

333
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 2: so they did it in reverse, or at least he

334
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,000
Speaker 2: decided for whatever reason.

335
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 3: To plead guilty and not go through a lengthy trial.

336
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 1: But that was that was a big moment. That was

337
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: a big deal for those parents. They were the first,

338
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 1: I guess in this and you know what, A lot

339
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 1: of times, a lot of I think a lot of

340
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: parents you can't help. But some people actually say it

341
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,919
Speaker 1: on social media. But sometimes it's in the back of

342
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,360
Speaker 1: your mind when you see these school shootings, you see, well,

343
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: how did the parents not know? Or you start to blame,

344
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,719
Speaker 1: like how do they not know? Or how could they

345
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,359
Speaker 1: not keep an eye on their kid? Or oh, I

346
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 1: feel bad, what kind of kid did you raise? People

347
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 1: do that kind of stuff ropes, and generally they haven't

348
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 1: gone after parents. But these are a different kind of

349
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 1: egregious cases, but cases, but they haven't generally done.

350
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 2: So yes, and I've even heard people say that person

351
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 2: should be held accountable. Look in some of these school shootings,

352
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 2: I hate to be Ma Cob here, but we have

353
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 2: seen the shooter go and kill the person who gave

354
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 2: them the gun, the mother, the father, and then go

355
00:17:59,400 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 2: and shoot this.

356
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,360
Speaker 3: So we've seen folks.

357
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 2: Not held accountable criminally or legally, but certainly they pay

358
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 2: the ultimate price with their life. That that was the

359
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,120
Speaker 2: case in Uvaldi, I remember that very clearly. But this

360
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 2: is going to set precedent. Interestingly enough, the plumb leis

361
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 2: James and Jennifer Plumley, the first couple convicted for their

362
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 2: son's actions. They, I say, only, but they only got

363
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years for their charges, So they'll be

364
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 2: out of prison, you know, I don't know with credit

365
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 2: for time served all of that probably in less than

366
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:36,199
Speaker 2: a decade. This guy, Colin Gray is almost certainly never

367
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 2: getting out of prison.

368
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 1: But they both I mean, that sends a message right

369
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:46,120
Speaker 1: to a parent, even saying ten years in prison if

370
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm not careful about guns in my home and keeping

371
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 1: an eye on my kid robes, that is a significant

372
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: I said, I know what you mean. Ten to fifteen

373
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440
Speaker 1: compared to life is not my friends, but my goodness,

374
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: that's going to send a message. I don't know about

375
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: these other There is another case pending. I didn't even

376
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,360
Speaker 1: realize there was a Dad Abundant Life Christian school. Two

377
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: were killed in that a teenage girl, I believe, and

378
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 1: then she ended up taking her own life. I believe

379
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 1: that was in Madison. But there's a Dad awaiting trial

380
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 1: on that one. I think a lot of people remember

381
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 1: the one the fourth of July parade or where he

382
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: kind of was plucking people off at this parade that

383
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: was in Chicago in twenty twenty two that dad did

384
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: plead guilty to reckless conduct. I don't know if he

385
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 1: got jail time or how much jail time there. And

386
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: then Newport News the six year old had a gun

387
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: and shot a teacher at school. Now this one wrote,

388
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: somebody needs to be held responsible for that one. Yes,

389
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,120
Speaker 1: well as a six year old got a gun.

390
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 2: Yes, there's only one way a six year old got

391
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: a gun. And again this is one of the many cases. Again,

392
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of these school shootings happened and a

393
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: gun is used from the home. And in that case

394
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 2: the mom pleaded guilty to gun charges and got four

395
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: years in prison. So it looks like from everything we've seen,

396
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 2: and this is all fairly recent in terms of charging parents,

397
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 2: this case, today's guilty verdict and the sentencing that is

398
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,199
Speaker 2: going to follow is certainly the most severe punishment we

399
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: have seen to date, and it will be interesting to

400
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 2: see what it does to just I don't know how

401
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 2: parents assume responsibility. I still would think the problem with

402
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: this being a deterrent is that no, I think most

403
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 2: parents don't think their kids have this in them. They

404
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 2: don't think their kids are capable of this kind of

405
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 2: heinous violence. Yeah.

406
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: And also most parents know their kids do not behave

407
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: the way these kids have been described as behaving, this

408
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: one in particular, cold great, some of the stuff that

409
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: came out of this trial. No, that's a little beyond

410
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: whoh not my baby.

411
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they were just like I believe, he had

412
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 2: a psychiatric evaluation schedule for March fifth, the following day,

413
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 2: the day after the school shooting, So they had been

414
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: dragging their feet, and I understand in trying to get

415
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: him outside help for his very obvious and documentable aggressions.

416
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: And emotional problems.

417
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't even go to school his eighth

418
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: grade year, that's how bad it was. So certainly there

419
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 2: were warning signs, there were red flags. Let's just hope

420
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 2: that at some point, I know we asked the school,

421
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: We ask students to pay attention to those red flags.

422
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 2: If you see something, say something, and we have seen

423
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: that prevent mass tragedies. But yeah, parents, parents need to

424
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 2: do better, and this case maybe will make that very

425
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 2: very evident to parents out there who have guns in

426
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: their homes. And with that, we just wanted to jump

427
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 2: on and let you know what that verdict was. And

428
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: potentially what that may mean in cases going forward, but

429
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: we will always keep you up to date on what's

430
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: happening around the world.

431
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to us. Everybody, I

432
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 3: made Robot alongside t J. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.