Speaker 1: Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio hiam Elli Wentworth
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Go ask Alli. Where this season
Speaker 1: we try to figure out how to grow a teenager
Speaker 1: in a pandemic. On this episode, we're diving into an
Speaker 1: arena that has had a lot of families with teens
Speaker 1: really stressed out, and that's college. And I am one
Speaker 1: of those parents that is completely stressing out. I have
Speaker 1: a rising senior, Elliott, who is right now applying to
Speaker 1: a number of colleges. I remember when I applied to college,
Speaker 1: and it was very simple. I applied to an arts
Speaker 1: college that pretty much guaranteed they'd accept me based on
Speaker 1: my paintings, and I just stopped there. I didn't even
Speaker 1: want to go through the stress of applying to school.
Speaker 1: So this is going to be an interesting topic not
Speaker 1: only for me, but for most of the parents listening
Speaker 1: who have kids who will apply have applied to college
Speaker 1: during a pandemic. It's an overwhelming and trigger inducing topics.
Speaker 1: So I opened it up. I want to discuss it
Speaker 1: with two different people. One of them is Logan Powell.
Speaker 1: He's the head of emissions at Brown and he's going
Speaker 1: to share his perspective from within an institution. And then
Speaker 1: Martin Bonihah, the master at College Prep, and what his
Speaker 1: new landscape means for the application process and whether higher
Speaker 1: education makes sense right now. First up, here's my conversation
Speaker 1: with Logan Power. Welcome Logan, Thank you allie. It's great
Speaker 1: to be with you. I'm assuming you are completely inundated
Speaker 1: and drowning in all kinds of emails and calls about
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on in college share. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm getting a lot of questions that presume
Speaker 1: I'm a fortune teller, and uh, and so I share
Speaker 1: the frustrations that are applicants and parents and incoming students
Speaker 1: have because they want to know what the future will
Speaker 1: look like. And and I wish, I wish I could
Speaker 1: tell them Alle and I and it changes and even
Speaker 1: if you if you know today, it's different tomorrow exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm uh selfishly, i have a daughter who's going to
Speaker 1: be a senior next year, and I've noticed a great
Speaker 1: amount of anxiety between her and her friends about what
Speaker 1: it's all going to look like for them applying. And
Speaker 1: then I have, you know, I know so many teenagers
Speaker 1: that are are going to college for the first time
Speaker 1: this fall and they don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 1: This is a huge question, and you can just pretend
Speaker 1: we're having technical difficulty if you want to answer. But
Speaker 1: do you think um online education is the future for universities.
Speaker 1: I think for some universities it may be. So you know,
Speaker 1: with almost any question we're asked about college admissions, the
Speaker 1: future of colle as you admissions, it depends those who
Speaker 1: can commute to school, those who go to school very locally,
Speaker 1: those who attend community college. Is an online experience may
Speaker 1: be the way for them to go, It may be
Speaker 1: the way for them to go now, and it may
Speaker 1: be the wave of the future for them. However, there
Speaker 1: is another population of students who are really largely trending
Speaker 1: towards our residential experience. So you know, there is a
Speaker 1: big part of the college experience that is about learning
Speaker 1: from your classmates. It's it's not just about what happens
Speaker 1: in the classroom. It's about those spontaneous conversations about philosophy
Speaker 1: and politics and economics that happen well after a class
Speaker 1: has ended for the day. The other part of it,
Speaker 1: it's really helpful and and frankly critical. We think UM
Speaker 1: are the sort of the social educational benefits UM, you know,
Speaker 1: having to navigate interpersonal relationships in some cases for the
Speaker 1: first time. That's really a critical part of the college
Speaker 1: experience that you can't replicate online. So I do think
Speaker 1: there is a future for online and patient, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that online education is the only future for
Speaker 1: probably a majority of students. I think most students still
Speaker 1: want to go to college. I think I think most
Speaker 1: students still want to move, you know, your your old family,
Speaker 1: like three pound couch up two flights of stairs into
Speaker 1: your dorm room. Right, that's part of the experience, and
Speaker 1: it sounds exciting, can wait, I think and beyond? So
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: and I think too about a lot of people in
Speaker 1: UM communities that are worried about a second wave of
Speaker 1: a virus, another pandemic, and there seems to be a
Speaker 1: sense of well, maybe I won't maybe I'll stay and
Speaker 1: go to a state school. That way, if there's another pandemic,
Speaker 1: I'm at home, I'm nearby, which I mean, I do
Speaker 1: understand that argument. However, I'm I believe in the full
Speaker 1: college experience and I think particularly for international students, they're
Speaker 1: gonna want a full college experience. Um Mitchell Stevens, who's
Speaker 1: an associate producer of education at Stanford, said before the pandemic,
Speaker 1: higher education was in many ways held together by prayer
Speaker 1: band aids. International students in a lot of debt. So too,
Speaker 1: isn't it. I know, I know, UM, I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: getting inundated with parents saying, well, if it's gonna be virtual,
Speaker 1: then I don't want to spend all this money because
Speaker 1: I'm going to be feeding my kids at home and
Speaker 1: housing them. How do you answer that question? Well, so far,
Speaker 1: you know, I can speak in part for what Brown
Speaker 1: is doing, and I can you know, say a word
Speaker 1: about what's happening nationally. At Brown, we are making every
Speaker 1: plan possible for students to be back on campus. Students
Speaker 1: have the choice to to learn virtually and and we
Speaker 1: certainly respect, um, you know, if they have either a
Speaker 1: health concern, if there's some of the reason and why
Speaker 1: they can't be on campus, then we certainly uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we we give them room for that, we give them
Speaker 1: space to exercise that freedom. But we are inviting students
Speaker 1: back to campus, and we have a plan in place
Speaker 1: changing from a two semester model to a trimester model
Speaker 1: to allow for de dentification or that you'll hear a
Speaker 1: lot this this upcoming academic year. Um, well, name my
Speaker 1: book and there you go. So we have a plan
Speaker 1: that will allow students to come back to campus in
Speaker 1: a in a stagger fashion and in a dednsified fashion.
Speaker 1: Not every school can do that now, and I should say,
Speaker 1: in addition to that, there will obviously be rigorous testing. Uh,
Speaker 1: there will be the ability to contact trace. We have
Speaker 1: plans in place to isolate students who do test positive.
Speaker 1: If it does happen, courses will will certainly have a
Speaker 1: hybrid component to them. Uh, classes will look different. You
Speaker 1: know that that you know, the the large class of
Speaker 1: a hundred students sitting side by side and an auditorium
Speaker 1: won't happen this year, um, But de identified classes will
Speaker 1: happen this year. Students will live in dorms this year.
Speaker 1: That that will all happen for us this year as
Speaker 1: of now. Yes, I know tomorrow if this podcast things
Speaker 1: could change. That's that this is the new normal world
Speaker 1: we live in. Though. That's exactly right, um work school. Um,
Speaker 1: So this includes international students financial aid students. That's right, yep, great,
Speaker 1: that's right. We're in a fortunate position. There are there
Speaker 1: are other schools who, uh you know, who aren't as
Speaker 1: financially secure, and you know, certainly that's understandable. They've had
Speaker 1: to take pretty major hits. You see, there's some pretty
Speaker 1: big shocks to the system, um, not just for Higher
Speaker 1: ED but for for everyone frankly. And the shocks to
Speaker 1: the system are you know, really large decreases in revenue
Speaker 1: that some colleges and universities face. At the same time,
Speaker 1: you have increased costs for you know, installing testing and
Speaker 1: uh you know, in all of the upgrades you and
Speaker 1: changes you have to make on camp and by the way,
Speaker 1: financial aid you know, students now because their families have
Speaker 1: taken financial hits. Um. You know, on the on the
Speaker 1: one hand, colleges and universities have lost some revenue because
Speaker 1: students aren't maybe going to college, they're taking gap years
Speaker 1: or leaves of absence. And then on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you have students who are planning become who need more
Speaker 1: financial aid than they ever have before in addition to
Speaker 1: all of the normal costs you incur. So it's a
Speaker 1: it's a two part shock to the system. That's that's
Speaker 1: pretty tough for a lot of places to weather. So
Speaker 1: let me ask you some questions about that. One is, UM,
Speaker 1: how does this work if a lot of students this
Speaker 1: year say I'm so excited to be going to Brown,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a gap year or I'm going
Speaker 1: to defer, how does that affect the next group of
Speaker 1: students coming in? Will be such an influx? Won't you
Speaker 1: be flooded with students? And won't you be somewhat anemic
Speaker 1: next year if everybody's taking gap years because they don't
Speaker 1: want to be virtual. I think that's the concertain that
Speaker 1: that perspective applicants would have. It's not a concern they
Speaker 1: need to have with us. You know, we were very
Speaker 1: judicious in the number of gap year requests we granted.
Speaker 1: Disruptive would be a kind a kind term to use
Speaker 1: for what has happened to families who are thinking about
Speaker 1: the college process. So we have returning families we think about,
Speaker 1: we have incoming first year families we think about UM,
Speaker 1: and we have prospective families we think about. And so
Speaker 1: those prospective families I think are in many cases really
Speaker 1: concerned that if UM, if you grant, say a hundred
Speaker 1: gap year requests, that's a hundred fewer spaces in next
Speaker 1: year's class that are available for for applicants in that
Speaker 1: next year. That's not the case for us again, because
Speaker 1: we were really thoughtful and cautious about how many gap
Speaker 1: years we offered UM, knowing that there was going to
Speaker 1: be some feeling of unfairness to some group of students, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, who might have been impacted. But what we
Speaker 1: really thought long and hard about was, if you're going
Speaker 1: to take a gap year, is that a gap year
Speaker 1: you would have done normally? Because we are allowing students
Speaker 1: to come to campus, we're encouraging them at this point
Speaker 1: to come to campus. And when there have been you know,
Speaker 1: really compelling reasons that we've seen, required military service, religious obligations,
Speaker 1: health concerns, all of those things, of course we are
Speaker 1: more generous about what I tould say. What about students
Speaker 1: that want to do something right now in an activist
Speaker 1: kind of way to help people that have been affected
Speaker 1: by the by the pandemic. Have you seen that? Have
Speaker 1: you seen people saying, look, I'm gonna take a gap
Speaker 1: here because I want to dot dot dot We want
Speaker 1: to house right right. We we do see that, Alley,
Speaker 1: and and we appreciate it more than I can tell you.
Speaker 1: We're in a fortunate position because our first year students
Speaker 1: at Brown actually don't start until January, and they'll do
Speaker 1: a spring term and a summer term. And so as
Speaker 1: a result of that, we've said, please do all the
Speaker 1: outreach you ken, and do it this fall. We would
Speaker 1: love for you to do that, and we have that
Speaker 1: who have done that, and we hope that they continue
Speaker 1: that in the fall while maintaining all of the appropriate
Speaker 1: precautions to remain safe and come here ready to go.
Speaker 1: Are you asking the question in applications as you're in
Speaker 1: the future, what did you do during the pandemic? Is
Speaker 1: that going to be a an application question? It's a
Speaker 1: it's a good it's a really good question. So, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about how this disrupted this upcoming class of applicants,
Speaker 1: not just the country but around the world. For some
Speaker 1: of our prospective families, it has been heartrenching. It has
Speaker 1: you know, it has had catastrophic consequences for their families,
Speaker 1: and that level of devastation we're going to see and
Speaker 1: we're going to be sensitive to and it's it's going
Speaker 1: to be difficult to read every time we see it,
Speaker 1: to be sure. So let me talk about another issue
Speaker 1: that I've I'm hearing from my teenage pals about past
Speaker 1: fail grades. You know, there's a concern now that you
Speaker 1: know they work so hard, um, done so well, and
Speaker 1: now in their senior year, the teachers are saying, we're
Speaker 1: going to be past fail and to them, to the teenagers,
Speaker 1: it's not showing you how much work they've done, how
Speaker 1: much progress they've had, or the fact that it's an A.
Speaker 1: You know, it could be a C minus, but no one,
Speaker 1: no one knows. Um. I think there's a huge concern
Speaker 1: about that for them, right right. I think there are
Speaker 1: I think there are two ways of looking at it. Ali,
Speaker 1: I think there's that concern, and we have this here
Speaker 1: that that that same concern, by the way, exists at
Speaker 1: the college level. I mean we have you know, across
Speaker 1: the country, we have a group of incoming seniors who
Speaker 1: are applying to law school, business school, medical school, applying
Speaker 1: to PhD programs who were saying, I need a g
Speaker 1: p A to demonstrate that I'm prepared for graduate professional
Speaker 1: study or to show my future employer. Uh, that that
Speaker 1: I'm a good student. The flip side to that coin, though,
Speaker 1: is uh this digital divide that has existed for years
Speaker 1: that has been exacerbated as a result of the pandemic UM.
Speaker 1: You know, I I personally know Brown families where the
Speaker 1: student has support and resources and has a private sort
Speaker 1: of space in the home to study UM and and
Speaker 1: that and and has you know too caring and and
Speaker 1: supportive parents who are there for them. And I know
Speaker 1: Brown students who don't have a home to go home to.
Speaker 1: They stayed on campus because there is no home for them,
Speaker 1: or the home or the home maybe five people in
Speaker 1: a two bedroom apartment, and there may be no WiFi
Speaker 1: in their home. And so for that student to be
Speaker 1: asked to perform at the same level they did before,
Speaker 1: that student who may not have WiFi, who may not
Speaker 1: have a private study space, who may not have the
Speaker 1: support of parents, should we ask that student to be
Speaker 1: judged on the A B C. D UH rubric. You know,
Speaker 1: some would argue that that's unfair as well, And so
Speaker 1: I think there are two sides to it. I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you. I think so much about so many
Speaker 1: families who have been completely devastated by the pandemic. And
Speaker 1: I think about families not only know they don't have WiFi,
Speaker 1: but suddenly both of their parents are unemployed and they
Speaker 1: have to go get a job and they have to
Speaker 1: now support the family unit in a way they didn't
Speaker 1: have to before. So it's not just about great. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's fantastic. We're gonna take a
Speaker 1: short break and we'll be right back. Welcome back with more,
Speaker 1: go ask Alley. The S A T S is another
Speaker 1: thing I know that banging your head against a while
Speaker 1: to hear that's ever asked me about. They haven't let's
Speaker 1: throw the whole thing away. Um, but that's that has
Speaker 1: an effect too now because of the pandemic in many ways. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's for students of all socio economic backgrounds. So
Speaker 1: how do you how do you sort of speak to
Speaker 1: students about that now? Right? College testing organizations, So the
Speaker 1: S A T and the A C T they've done
Speaker 1: everything they can. I'm not intending to knock them in
Speaker 1: any way, but they they also have to be concerned
Speaker 1: about the health of the students who are coming to
Speaker 1: take the test. They also have to be concerned about
Speaker 1: test security, which is why in one case at least
Speaker 1: there was no testing from home option. But they also
Speaker 1: have to think about reliable uh Internet connections for students
Speaker 1: who may have wanted to to take the test online.
Speaker 1: They have to think about where the tests are offered.
Speaker 1: If it's offered in a high school. But so say,
Speaker 1: say Ali, for example, they wanted to offer the S
Speaker 1: A T R A c T in the city of
Speaker 1: Chicago to Chicago Public school. Well, Chicago public schools aren't
Speaker 1: open this fall, So what then do you? What then
Speaker 1: do you do? There aren't There aren't a whole lot
Speaker 1: of options left for those students, nor for the testing agency.
Speaker 1: So I don't blame them for this. It's not their fault.
Speaker 1: For sure, they're they're taking the precautions that they think
Speaker 1: are appropriate for the students, though it is alted in
Speaker 1: I think widespread anxiety built on on the uncertainty of
Speaker 1: whether or not a test will be available, and then
Speaker 1: then whether or not they'll be penalized for not having
Speaker 1: a test, or for having one test when they would
Speaker 1: have normally had three, five, or however many they normally
Speaker 1: would have taken. And so what we're doing is um
Speaker 1: is to do the best we can to say, look,
Speaker 1: will take all the information that's available from you and
Speaker 1: from your school and beyond that. We can't ask anything
Speaker 1: more of you, and and we just want you to
Speaker 1: be We want you to be healthy, we want you
Speaker 1: to be safe, we want you to be with your family.
Speaker 1: Take the precautions you need to take. We're going to
Speaker 1: do the best job we can. And the sooner we
Speaker 1: all get comfortable with uncertainty, the more at peace will be.
Speaker 1: Even even if it's not what we want, will at
Speaker 1: least have some understanding that this is the reality we
Speaker 1: live in for at least a year. I mean, your
Speaker 1: admissions process this year is going to be something. It's
Speaker 1: going to be a complete I mean really, it's it's
Speaker 1: gonna have to kind of change all the optics on
Speaker 1: how you look at an application right to some degree. Yes, Ali,
Speaker 1: we we will. You know certainly that the core components
Speaker 1: remain the same, which is to say we always put
Speaker 1: people first. Um. I think I speak from most colleges
Speaker 1: and universities in the country and saying we should have
Speaker 1: never made a decision based on standardized testing alone. I
Speaker 1: think that's not the way to go. I think that's
Speaker 1: an unfortunate policy. If that's never been the policy at Brown,
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be the policy this year.
Speaker 1: We're not going to make decisions based on the presence
Speaker 1: or absence of standardized testing. UM. Now, in this case,
Speaker 1: I should say testing should not have been determinative of
Speaker 1: a particular outcome this year. Like the rest of the country,
Speaker 1: we are test optional because it's it's the right thing
Speaker 1: to do, uh for for our applicants this year. So
Speaker 1: it will be it will be different. But I think
Speaker 1: the key for us is to not hold it against
Speaker 1: the students who don't have test scores, because I've heard
Speaker 1: from family least with you know, with enormous resources, and
Speaker 1: students with no resources, wh all say the same thing,
Speaker 1: you can't you can't get in to take a test.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is affecting everyone in the same way.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter what your socio economic status is.
Speaker 1: If the schools are closed and you can't take the
Speaker 1: s A T you can't take the s A T UM.
Speaker 1: And so we we we realized that and we're going
Speaker 1: to take that into consideration, right, I mean, which one
Speaker 1: could say about voting and everything else right now, So
Speaker 1: and my my last question is UM, now that we're
Speaker 1: all going to be taking virtual tours, um, have you
Speaker 1: had meetings about what that? You know, I've seen your
Speaker 1: virtual tour now, but I think universities, at least for
Speaker 1: the next year or so, that's the only way, you know,
Speaker 1: students that are that are browsing are going to be
Speaker 1: able to see them, not on foot, not by intuition,
Speaker 1: but by this virtual tour. Do you feel any pressure
Speaker 1: to add, you know, put a lot of bells and
Speaker 1: whistles in your tour? I mean, how do you really
Speaker 1: show what your university is online? Right? That's a great question.
Speaker 1: So there are all these new buzzwords that you here
Speaker 1: related to the times in which we find ourselves living
Speaker 1: right now. And you know we talked about d dentification.
Speaker 1: The other popular buzzword is is asynchronous or asynchronicity. And
Speaker 1: so what that means is how do you offer tours
Speaker 1: and information sessions to students around the world in many
Speaker 1: different time zones? And so what we do Our approach
Speaker 1: has been to offer sort of a buffet of options,
Speaker 1: if you will. So we have recorded tours that students
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world can enjoy at any time of
Speaker 1: day or night, um, based on when they're interested in
Speaker 1: taking the tour. But then we also actually have live
Speaker 1: virtual tours that are hosted by students, that are led
Speaker 1: by real Brown students. I would say, Ali, you know,
Speaker 1: for any prospective student out there, understand that every college
Speaker 1: or university's website is going to be beautiful. Um, it
Speaker 1: never rains, the snow was always clean. If there are
Speaker 1: snow shots, everyone's happy all the time, and every photo
Speaker 1: every college is a Disney movie Frozen. I get it.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, exactly. Everything is great. You know,
Speaker 1: every day is perfect in your virtual tour. So if
Speaker 1: if a school offers a live virtual tour to the
Speaker 1: degree you can learn something about that school from the
Speaker 1: students who are leading the tour, I think that's probably
Speaker 1: going to do more than you know, the pretty picture
Speaker 1: of fall foliage that we're all going to show you.
Speaker 1: You know, all of those images are going to be
Speaker 1: are going to blur together, I think. But I think
Speaker 1: the feeling that you're left with from the people with
Speaker 1: whom you interact at that college or university should give
Speaker 1: you some sense of whether you think you should continue
Speaker 1: to pursue it as an option or not. Now, let
Speaker 1: me also, if I can add one caveat. Don't rule
Speaker 1: a school entirely in or entirely out based on one
Speaker 1: interaction with one individual. Yes, so if you love that
Speaker 1: one tour guide, that's great. But if it happened to
Speaker 1: not go, well, don't take it as indicative of every
Speaker 1: person who is affiliated with that institution about a live tour. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, a few years ago,
Speaker 1: when I looked to colleges, Um, I wouldn't you know,
Speaker 1: I had some dud I had some dud people that
Speaker 1: showed me around. But yes, I could separate them from
Speaker 1: the institution. So I'm going to ask you to do
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of homework and just say, what are
Speaker 1: three what's your three best tips or your best advice
Speaker 1: for students that are going to be applying to college
Speaker 1: this year. What can you say to them based on
Speaker 1: the fact that that we're living in this pandemic right
Speaker 1: now that can be helpful to them? Oh gosh, only three? Ali,
Speaker 1: I feel so constrained. Um, you know, I'm glad you's fantastic.
Speaker 1: I do, and you know, but they really center. I
Speaker 1: think they may maybe they'll surprise you, maybe not. So
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, be comfortable be as comfortable
Speaker 1: as you can with the uncertainty of what this year
Speaker 1: is going to look like. UM, I would say, be patient. Um,
Speaker 1: you know there there are a lot of families out
Speaker 1: there who want to know, again, going back to where
Speaker 1: we started, what will you know? What will December look like?
Speaker 1: What will January look like? How about what will tomorrow
Speaker 1: look like? We you know, we don't know, so you know,
Speaker 1: certainly having some perspective that things will be different, being
Speaker 1: patient in knowing that as soon as colleges and universities
Speaker 1: have policies or decisions that they can make, um, that
Speaker 1: they can make them. Um, and know that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: this year is going to be different, but they're going
Speaker 1: to be successful. They're going to find a way to
Speaker 1: be successful there. Look for those areas of support and
Speaker 1: our lives, whether it's a parent, guardian, uh, you know, teacher,
Speaker 1: mentor coach, look for those areas of support and lean
Speaker 1: on those and then also offer offer that support to
Speaker 1: other people. So I'm getting beyond three. But but Ali,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't focus on grades and test scores. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I would say to students, do the best you can
Speaker 1: and understand that we're going to We're going to be
Speaker 1: as flexible and as sensitive to how disruptive this year
Speaker 1: has been as we possibly can be, and to keep
Speaker 1: things in perspective. Logan Pal, I can't tell you how
Speaker 1: much you've done for the anxiety for so many I
Speaker 1: mean truly, because you know we look for every little
Speaker 1: crumb of of understanding and also to ease our own
Speaker 1: anxiety about what's going on. You have been very helpful.
Speaker 1: Logan Pal is the President of Admissions at Brown University.
Speaker 1: UM I may not have to take a zanex later,
Speaker 1: so thank you for that. Thank you for your time,
Speaker 1: and keep doing the wonderful things you do Brown, And
Speaker 1: thank you for talking to me today. Well. Thank you
Speaker 1: for the time, Ali, I really appreciate it. And good
Speaker 1: luck to all the college going students out there. I
Speaker 1: wish them all well. Stick around because up next I
Speaker 1: have the Master of College Prep, Martin Bonilla. Right after
Speaker 1: this quick break, welcome back, I'm here with my second guest,
Speaker 1: Martin Bonia. He is the director of college Counseling at
Speaker 1: the College Prep School in Oakland, California. Martin, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being with us, UM. Thanks for having
Speaker 1: me Ali. Martin, I gotta tell you. Everybody is talking about,
Speaker 1: particularly if you're a parent, what school looks like for
Speaker 1: every age. But since I'm talking about a teenager, chances
Speaker 1: are they are thinking about applying to college or they
Speaker 1: are applying to college. And so I want you on
Speaker 1: today to help us kind of figure out what to
Speaker 1: do about this. How do we apply these days? I
Speaker 1: mean pre pandemic. What were the factors that you advised
Speaker 1: kids on when they were considering, uh, applying to universities
Speaker 1: while the structure, the infrastructure is still kind of the same.
Speaker 1: If you can think of applying to college, um in
Speaker 1: three general buckets. Okay, the most important bucket is the
Speaker 1: first bucket, you know, that's you know, is the student.
Speaker 1: Uh do they have the academic foundation to thrive? You
Speaker 1: know in my college curriculum. Um, So there are those
Speaker 1: data points high school, you know, trend and grades, testing,
Speaker 1: those those pieces. But once that match has been made,
Speaker 1: you know, a second bucket, you might say, is support
Speaker 1: from the high school, the college councilor you know who's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there is there's Ali Wentworth, there's the high school, and
Speaker 1: there's Ali Wentworth at the high school. That's the job
Speaker 1: of the college council to sort of capture Ali within
Speaker 1: the context of the high school, right, That's that's what
Speaker 1: they're sharing, um. And then there's the two teacher recommendations
Speaker 1: that kind of share what kind of student, you know,
Speaker 1: Ali is classroom and the experiences and you know, what
Speaker 1: dynamic does she bring to the classroom contained can she
Speaker 1: respectfully agree, disagree, etcetera. And then the sort of third
Speaker 1: bucket is more up close and personal things like interviews, essays,
Speaker 1: and the depth and breath in the extracurricular involvement for
Speaker 1: the student. That is another set of assessment. So that's
Speaker 1: sort of the general criteria in which the you know,
Speaker 1: kids are are sort of being evaluated, but of course
Speaker 1: challenging for the college because they also have institutional priorities
Speaker 1: like I have an army of faculty and staff that
Speaker 1: work here, and they have children. So if their child applies,
Speaker 1: I probably have to take a close look at that.
Speaker 1: I have alumni children, I have to look at that.
Speaker 1: I have athletics. I have to look at that, you know,
Speaker 1: so there are a lot of other factors, um that
Speaker 1: that are considered. What happens if their past fail this year,
Speaker 1: which is my daughter is for a lot of schools.
Speaker 1: In the spring, there was the past fail option, but
Speaker 1: there was still you know, two and a half years
Speaker 1: of grades and there's one semester of pass and then
Speaker 1: there's the senior year, right, so the g p A
Speaker 1: will be based on two and a half years and
Speaker 1: not you know, three full years, and then they will
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, how are you doing senior years? So
Speaker 1: that's a that's a slight change. But the academic performance
Speaker 1: in the classroom is still the most important criteria that
Speaker 1: has not changed. There's also the testing that is a stressful,
Speaker 1: uh component of the process for the kids and the parents,
Speaker 1: because it's something that parents have informed themselves about since
Speaker 1: sophomore year. I know there are a lot of things
Speaker 1: I don't control, but I know my kid has to
Speaker 1: take this test. So we're going to invest in S
Speaker 1: A T prep and then they're going to do all
Speaker 1: this practice and like they're ready, and then the test
Speaker 1: doesn't happen and then they YEA. I say Martin that
Speaker 1: I'm actually glad that the tests might be obsolete. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for this,
Speaker 1: but I was a very creative student and I did
Speaker 1: not do well in the test, and I didn't like
Speaker 1: that I was being judged on that. And I think
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of students and a lot
Speaker 1: of parents that don't agree with it. That they think
Speaker 1: that for some teens it's it's sort of sets them
Speaker 1: up to fail. So is there a silver lining? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Is it a good thing that that the tests might
Speaker 1: be obsolete or that you don't have to apply with them? Um?
Speaker 1: I think that there are success stories for schools that
Speaker 1: have been test optional. So for the bulk of the colleges,
Speaker 1: it's their first time, right, So for the parents, it's like, wait,
Speaker 1: test optional? What does that mean? You know? It's like,
Speaker 1: well you can if you take the test and there
Speaker 1: are sports that you think will help your candidate, See
Speaker 1: you submit them? And how do you determine that? Well,
Speaker 1: maybe you go to the school's website and you see
Speaker 1: what their average is and if you're within the average,
Speaker 1: are a little higher? Okay, sounds like a good idea
Speaker 1: to the test. If you don't submit them, are they
Speaker 1: going to assume that you did badly and that's why
Speaker 1: you're not submitting them? I don't. I don't think they're
Speaker 1: going to assume that I'm actually proud of the colleges
Speaker 1: because they kind of sense the groundswell of stress coming
Speaker 1: from the testing, and they're like, what can we do
Speaker 1: responsibly as the adults of this process to take the
Speaker 1: temperature down if kids aren't able to test? And I
Speaker 1: think because there have been schools at all levels of
Speaker 1: selectivity that have been test optional and there's a roadmap,
Speaker 1: my senses is that those deans of admissions have been
Speaker 1: tapping the expertise of their peers who have gone down
Speaker 1: that road and been like, oh, if they can do what,
Speaker 1: we can do it so too. You know, back to
Speaker 1: your question, I think it's going to be an interesting
Speaker 1: few years. I think it's entirely possible that we stay
Speaker 1: test optional, and it's possible that, you know, if colleges
Speaker 1: are able to enroll the kind of classes that they're
Speaker 1: excited about and testing did not factor into the decision,
Speaker 1: maybe colleges start to use other criteria instead of testing, Like,
Speaker 1: you know what, why don't you send me two or
Speaker 1: three graded papers, you know, one from English, one from history,
Speaker 1: maybe one from a world language. Send me a graded
Speaker 1: science exam, a graded math exam, and I can kind
Speaker 1: of see your work you know, and how you're doing,
Speaker 1: and maybe that becomes criteria and not the big test.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no scenario where universities or colleges will
Speaker 1: come up with their own test. Meaning if you're going
Speaker 1: to apply to UH Stanford, we have our own specific
Speaker 1: Stanford test we want you to take. You don't see
Speaker 1: that happening to you. I think that's actually a remote possibility.
Speaker 1: You have a lot of loyal alumni you know of
Speaker 1: an institution who want to stay engaged and maybe this
Speaker 1: sort of traditional interview used to be the way they
Speaker 1: would engage. Maybe that they use the army of volunteers
Speaker 1: in a different way. It's like, these students have applied
Speaker 1: and we would like some more information from the student.
Speaker 1: And also we've come up with a little one hour tests, Um,
Speaker 1: would you mind hosting that, you know, in some kind
Speaker 1: of like office venue for us? I do think that
Speaker 1: is possible. So going back to the a point of
Speaker 1: stress for the parents and that sort of academic hurdle
Speaker 1: right there, So the how is the past bail gonna work? Right?
Speaker 1: And then what about you know, the testing? What the
Speaker 1: calluses are saying we can go test optional is because
Speaker 1: we have other tools that can help us. Right, So
Speaker 1: when what the colleges have is data they have for
Speaker 1: every high school the kids that applied for as far
Speaker 1: back as they want one year, two, three, four, five,
Speaker 1: and they can kind of see the trends. But a
Speaker 1: more important data piece for them is they can pull
Speaker 1: a roster of say the last five to ten years,
Speaker 1: and say, of the kids at high school X in
Speaker 1: the city of Chicago who have come to my institution,
Speaker 1: I have what their profile looked like when they applied,
Speaker 1: and we obviously accepted them. They're here, and I have
Speaker 1: how they have performed at my college. Right, So it's
Speaker 1: how it's how high schools build reputations. Right If if
Speaker 1: if say my school, I had five kids at college X,
Speaker 1: and you know, on average they had a three point
Speaker 1: five three point six unweighted g p A from my school,
Speaker 1: but they were at the college and they have three eights,
Speaker 1: you know, three five, three point nine. As it grew up,
Speaker 1: you're going to set yourself as the original person. Wow,
Speaker 1: the academic foundation that these kids have built at this
Speaker 1: high school is really aligning well with our college curriculum.
Speaker 1: They are a great match for us. They are outperformed.
Speaker 1: We accepted them for many reasons, but they in the
Speaker 1: most important thing, they are really really an x They
Speaker 1: are in alignment with our curriculum. They are really hitting
Speaker 1: a home run. That is how high schools build their reputation.
Speaker 1: So I think the colleges are going to rely on
Speaker 1: that kind of data piece. Where it might hurt is
Speaker 1: I go to a most likely a public institution, and uh,
Speaker 1: in the spring, I went past fail and I don't
Speaker 1: have any testing, and it's a new high school where
Speaker 1: there's new data, where there's no set like I think,
Speaker 1: go back and look what's happened. So for for you know,
Speaker 1: kids in that situation, I think, in to answer your question,
Speaker 1: a college might identify that student as somebody they want
Speaker 1: on campus because all the other factors are so compelling,
Speaker 1: but they're not sure, so they might design kind of
Speaker 1: special you know, exam that maybe even it's just sent
Speaker 1: to the college counselor, and I have to sort of
Speaker 1: procter that. Now, let me ask you this, Because of
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, a lot of schools are losing money, a
Speaker 1: lot of colleges and universities are losing money. And how
Speaker 1: do you foresee that translating into scholarships and financial aid.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Um. I think the well the well endowed
Speaker 1: schools are still going to be able to deliver, because
Speaker 1: that's just a priority. But I do think that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of schools that are need aware to begin with.
Speaker 1: Whole will now be even more need aware, and and
Speaker 1: colleges might have to make a choice of I need
Speaker 1: to enroll a class, you know, and and these families
Speaker 1: want to come, and and in this year, you know,
Speaker 1: they are a full pay family, and they're in the ballpark,
Speaker 1: and based on all other factors, I probably want to
Speaker 1: take more of them, but I also want to round
Speaker 1: out the class. And I might see I might make
Speaker 1: a strategic decision and say, I've only got I can
Speaker 1: take five middle class kids and offer them ten thousand,
Speaker 1: or I can offer one kid fifty, right, because that's
Speaker 1: what they that's what they need to come. I think.
Speaker 1: I think when you're in that bracket and you're trying
Speaker 1: to fill a class, you're like, this is a year
Speaker 1: where you know, my hands are tied. I have to offer,
Speaker 1: you know, ten thousand to these five families because I
Speaker 1: have maybe one or two or three of them will come.
Speaker 1: I could offer fifty for this one kid, and I
Speaker 1: don't even know if they'll come. So from the college side,
Speaker 1: I think they are dealing with what we're dealing with,
Speaker 1: uncertainty and if they can have a certainty, I know
Speaker 1: you want to come UM, I know you can pay,
Speaker 1: and you know you're not You're not to break the budget.
Speaker 1: That leaves you money in the bank. For me, UM,
Speaker 1: I think that community is going to do well and
Speaker 1: the next I mean that that changes the whole diversity
Speaker 1: of those upcoming college classes. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: That should be incredibly worrisome for us. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: what has made college UM so attractive to kids is right, like,
Speaker 1: if you just go to the website for any private,
Speaker 1: relative selective school and you go to their admissions website,
Speaker 1: one of the things you're you're you can click on
Speaker 1: is like what is the profile of the incoming class?
Speaker 1: And the colleges are so proud, right, you know, you
Speaker 1: have the little map of the US and it's like
Speaker 1: fifty kids from California and twenty from Minnesota, and like
Speaker 1: right there showing you it's like we have all fifty
Speaker 1: states represented. Ten to twelve percent of our kids are
Speaker 1: coming from outside the US, from three D countries and
Speaker 1: you know, or first in their family leads to go
Speaker 1: to college, right like they're telling you it's like this,
Speaker 1: you know, is what we have to offer. I think
Speaker 1: that's gonna be harder. Having geographic balance might be something
Speaker 1: that is sacrificed. But I do think as far as
Speaker 1: things like diversity of voices and experiences are still going
Speaker 1: to be valued. It's an institutional priority, you know, for
Speaker 1: the colleges, and they will work very hard to have
Speaker 1: that kind of balance in the class. I think it'll
Speaker 1: change for some middle for some middle class kids. I
Speaker 1: think for my parent community, I try and get them
Speaker 1: to focus what they can control. I help them identify
Speaker 1: you can't control, you can't control who's applying early decision,
Speaker 1: like is this a good bet traditionally, but we don't
Speaker 1: know what the fall is gonna look like. Everything is
Speaker 1: a little bit of a risk. But you know, Mrs Jones,
Speaker 1: here's what you can focus on. And what are you
Speaker 1: telling Mrs Jones? What can we telling Mrs Jones. She's like, look, Martin,
Speaker 1: you're so funny, ha ha ha. I've come to your
Speaker 1: sopht Mark parent night, and then I went to your
Speaker 1: junior parent night and Mrs j yeah, we're just you're
Speaker 1: giving us appropriate doses of you know, like what we
Speaker 1: should be thinking about. But now I'm here and I'm
Speaker 1: a senior parent and I need you to tell me
Speaker 1: what to do because I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, I get it. I've told you
Speaker 1: that this is a process where you have to allow
Speaker 1: your child to step into the spotlight and you have
Speaker 1: to kind of take a step back and that can
Speaker 1: be hard. Number One, be a champion for your child.
Speaker 1: Don't be a critic right there. Very sensitive right now,
Speaker 1: So like, don't insist on reading the essay and being like,
Speaker 1: you know, I really couldn't sleep. But in the second
Speaker 1: paragraph you use the word galvanized, and I think this
Speaker 1: word might be better. That's not helpful, so I think
Speaker 1: it Just just support your child, chair them on and
Speaker 1: just say you've got this. I have full confidence in
Speaker 1: you if you need me off for help, but don't
Speaker 1: insist on it. Um. I tell Mrs Jones that she
Speaker 1: needs to say her relationship with her child evolving. She's
Speaker 1: used to being the manager, but the kids are not
Speaker 1: dealing well with directives right now. They're trying to be
Speaker 1: a little more independent. So I told Mrs Jones, just
Speaker 1: start thinking of yourself for as a consultant for your child,
Speaker 1: not as the manager. So just speak. It's like, oh
Speaker 1: what happened, it's cool today. Oh that happened. I had
Speaker 1: a similar experience at your age. Here was here was
Speaker 1: the scenario. Here's how I handled it, Here's how it
Speaker 1: worked out. UM, good luck. If you need me, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to share other things as opposed to you need
Speaker 1: to do this because the relationship is changing. Even with me.
Speaker 1: When I first start working with the kids, I give
Speaker 1: them colleges and I give them things to do, and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, you're the college council, so I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna do what you say. But now when I give
Speaker 1: the stuff, it's like, I'm going to take that under consideration.
Speaker 1: Thank you for suggesting those three schools. I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: my own research. I will get back to and tell
Speaker 1: you how i feel. I'm like perfect that. What are
Speaker 1: you telling parents? Um about virtual tours? A lot of
Speaker 1: students weren't able to go see colleges this spring, and
Speaker 1: so they're basically choosing off of uh, you know, some
Speaker 1: made little film or some you know, visual utopia that
Speaker 1: they're seeing online. That's not really visiting schools. It's not
Speaker 1: visiting schools on personality. And you haven't you haven't gotten
Speaker 1: to This would have been your summer, right, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was supposed to do that, you know, get a get
Speaker 1: a rental car and just drive around and look at schools. Sure,
Speaker 1: I mean there is a benefit to that, but truthfully,
Speaker 1: it's like my kids are like, they have to make
Speaker 1: a case. Why is the school going to be on
Speaker 1: my list? Why is it not on the list? And
Speaker 1: they have to kind of prove it to me, and
Speaker 1: it's work and they're like, oh, Martin post COVID. It's
Speaker 1: so much easier because I just go to you know,
Speaker 1: Baits College, you know, admissions visit and they have an
Speaker 1: open house and I click and I put my headphones on,
Speaker 1: and you know, someone gives a live presentation, which leads
Speaker 1: to a live tour, which then leads to a way
Speaker 1: if you want more, you know, you can sit in
Speaker 1: on a student panel. You can like all that research
Speaker 1: you wanted me to do. I don't have to just
Speaker 1: take notes from the virtual experiences. So the shopping part
Speaker 1: is easier for the kids. So that might stick right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna miss getting fried claims
Speaker 1: at friendlyies and the whole ritual of driving with my daughter.
Speaker 1: But you're making me feel better because I really thought
Speaker 1: we were at such a disadvantage because we didn't actually,
Speaker 1: you know, stomp our sneakers across the grounds. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, when I worked on college admission, it's been
Speaker 1: like two months traveling around the country rental cars, hotels,
Speaker 1: all that the colleges are going to save a lot
Speaker 1: of money, and so well parents, by the way, and
Speaker 1: so well parents. So I think this is this is
Speaker 1: this is a good thing because also there's so many
Speaker 1: families that do not have the opportunity to colleges. Period.
Speaker 1: I did not see my college, you know, I just
Speaker 1: didn't have the resources for that. So I think that's
Speaker 1: a good thing overall. It gives everybody access. What is
Speaker 1: that criteria that you tell your students to consider when
Speaker 1: narrowing down what colleges they want to apply to. I
Speaker 1: kind of break it down for them into three components.
Speaker 1: One is, you know, they should look at the history
Speaker 1: and the philosophy of the school. Um, I always tell
Speaker 1: them to do a Google map. What does it take
Speaker 1: to get there? Is at one plane and a taxi
Speaker 1: writer or is it two planes and a bus like
Speaker 1: That's that will have an impact on them. Things like
Speaker 1: size and locations, so just basic facts of the institution.
Speaker 1: But the second part is more specific to the student.
Speaker 1: What are your current academic and intellectual interests and how
Speaker 1: will those interests be served at that institution? So that's
Speaker 1: when they have to dig into, like the academic program
Speaker 1: that the school has. Does it have a quar curriculum?
Speaker 1: Does it not? Is it really unstructured? You know, how
Speaker 1: is that going to affect you? Um, are your majors?
Speaker 1: There are there special opportunities academically, So they're kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to see my So you're telling me, Martin,
Speaker 1: I have to see myself. How will I satisfy myself
Speaker 1: academically at the school for four years? I'm like, right,
Speaker 1: what were your four year academic plan look like? If
Speaker 1: you go here, will it serve you well? Like? Great?
Speaker 1: Got it? And then the third part it's a little
Speaker 1: harder to do, but that's you know, what kind of
Speaker 1: kids are you going to be surrounded by? That's that's
Speaker 1: difficult to assess. But there are places to look for clues. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I tell the kids what are your current
Speaker 1: you know, not you know, non scholastic interests, So like, well,
Speaker 1: I like science, olympia, ad and robotics and you know Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: I'm like, great, let's look at the full menu of
Speaker 1: activities at that institution and try and find yourself in
Speaker 1: these clubs. So when we pluck you out of your
Speaker 1: lovely home and are our nice, warm, fuzzy school atmosphere
Speaker 1: and pluck you down in small town Illinois, what resources
Speaker 1: are there at that school where you're going to be
Speaker 1: able to recreate your community of friends? Is there going
Speaker 1: to be a soft landing? Um? And then also a
Speaker 1: good other place to get information is in the student newspaper,
Speaker 1: which tends to be you know, independent from the institution.
Speaker 1: And I don't tell the kids they have to read
Speaker 1: all that, but I'm like, what are the headlines, what
Speaker 1: are the letters to the editor. There's a calendar of events.
Speaker 1: You can kind of see what's happening, and you will
Speaker 1: learn something about the community even though you're not physically there.
Speaker 1: And then I tell them it's like, okay, like, based
Speaker 1: on this minute back finding exercise, what is your impression
Speaker 1: thumbs up, thumbs down. I don't know, give me more information.
Speaker 1: That's sort of a first first review. Excellent And what
Speaker 1: are you okay? So we've gone through the shopping now
Speaker 1: application wise, what kind of advice do you have for parents?
Speaker 1: How about? How about concerning the essay? I know you're
Speaker 1: saying don't micromanage them, but should they change? Does this
Speaker 1: subject change now that we're in a pandemic? I guess
Speaker 1: all the big advice I have is like, maybe don't
Speaker 1: write about COVID right, Um, you know, now we're in COVID,
Speaker 1: and an instinct might be like I'm going to tell
Speaker 1: the college like what happened to me, But it's happening
Speaker 1: to all of us. And if the essay is supposed
Speaker 1: to come from a unique place, um, that's not something
Speaker 1: that's going to be unique. We all have, you know
Speaker 1: that story. I mean, there's so many other things going
Speaker 1: on in our world right now that it just might
Speaker 1: not have the impact the impact. So I would say
Speaker 1: we all had stories pre March, and maybe that good
Speaker 1: advice would be to sort of dig into those stories
Speaker 1: and those might reflect better on the kid. And then
Speaker 1: just as far as parents, college councils, are well aware
Speaker 1: of the voice, of the authenticity of a seventeen year
Speaker 1: old voice apparent reading as it can cause more stress.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm completely hands off for that reason. UM,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question, Martin, because you know,
Speaker 1: we've we've heard a lot of cautionary tales about social
Speaker 1: media in terms of college acceptance. I have a very
Speaker 1: naive question as a parent, which is do they when
Speaker 1: they see let's say, instat stories of a lot of partying,
Speaker 1: a lot of alcoholism, um or uh, sort of inappropriate
Speaker 1: behavior socially, does that have an effect on their admissions? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: because because if it's also like, right, you were overserved
Speaker 1: at a party and somebody recorded you and you said
Speaker 1: something inappropriate, um, that can easily be beheld against you.
Speaker 1: And again from the college point of view, what do
Speaker 1: you know? My parents asked, like, what is it? What
Speaker 1: is it about activities and these recommendations. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: your child lives in your house. They live in your house.
Speaker 1: But what you're asking, it's like, I want to come
Speaker 1: live in your house for four years. You're going to
Speaker 1: be the parents, right, You're going to come live in
Speaker 1: my house for four years and guess what as the college,
Speaker 1: I want well behaved children, So that's that's important. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to remain a good citizen, not just of
Speaker 1: your school, but beyond all. Right, now, I've gotten so
Speaker 1: many great nuggets of wisdom for you. And as we
Speaker 1: end this conversation, are there any more big headlines or
Speaker 1: big bullet points of advice you can give to parents
Speaker 1: in the application process? Yes? Um, right now, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna take your situation. Ali. You probably probably have an
Speaker 1: extended family, and your partner probably has an extended family.
Speaker 1: And because your daughter is going to be a senior,
Speaker 1: everyone's going to want to be in their business. Oh,
Speaker 1: you're applying to college. Where are you applying? Why are
Speaker 1: you applying there? These are the schools I like, why
Speaker 1: aren't you applying to that? For these kids, it can
Speaker 1: be a very personal process. It's a very personal journey.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important for parents to protect your
Speaker 1: kid and help them pivot in those uncomfortable conversations during
Speaker 1: the holidays, even if it's on zoom. Um, that's great information,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Just pivot to redirect the conversation.
Speaker 1: But the parents can be very helpful, um, and redirecting
Speaker 1: that conversation. Um, I think something very important to me
Speaker 1: as a college counselor. It takes a lot of work
Speaker 1: two get kids to ten to twelve schools to apply
Speaker 1: to that are well rounded, that we are protecting them
Speaker 1: and has a certain amount of reaches. If you can
Speaker 1: imagine a pyramid, you know for schools three schools, two schools,
Speaker 1: one school, one super reach, two good reaches, three probables
Speaker 1: and four high probability schools. That's great, that kid is
Speaker 1: being set up for mostly good news. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1: But it is important for parents not to flip the
Speaker 1: pyramid the other way, right, like it's like, oh, one
Speaker 1: high problem, Like we're just we're we're real risk takers.
Speaker 1: That's really hard. It's easy for the parents to want that.
Speaker 1: It's hard for the kids emotionally too to look at
Speaker 1: the selectivity of the group of schools on their listen
Speaker 1: go wow, wow, this is this is you know, hazardous emotionally,
Speaker 1: like I'm stressed. So it's important for the parents to
Speaker 1: respect the well rounded list. And also it's a responsibility,
Speaker 1: I think of the parents to celebrate all of the
Speaker 1: schools on the list when they are identified. So even
Speaker 1: if a parent doesn't know, you know, about a school.
Speaker 1: It's their job to go get intelligence on that school
Speaker 1: and talk about that school. You know what, darling, you
Speaker 1: like that school. I found out a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: you know, their daughter went there and she said great things,
Speaker 1: and I went and I did the tour too, and like,
Speaker 1: it looks really cool and I can see why you
Speaker 1: like it. They have to talk about all the schools
Speaker 1: because for the kids, that validates the school for them.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, self care, we talk a
Speaker 1: lot about self are in this pandemic um. The families
Speaker 1: who I think have handled uh COVID since March really
Speaker 1: well are the families that turned self care into family care.
Speaker 1: Waking up at the same time together and going on
Speaker 1: on walks in their neighborhood and then coming back and
Speaker 1: having breakfast together instead of dinner, right setting up the day.
Speaker 1: And then you know, some families have taken language classes together,
Speaker 1: you know, for an hour, it's like, oh, we're going
Speaker 1: to do French together, We're gonna go guarden together, We're
Speaker 1: going to build a shed together, and we'll see in
Speaker 1: the opposite where there was unstructured situations and I would
Speaker 1: be talking to some you know, kids at you know, noon,
Speaker 1: and they were just waking up and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened? I was watching Netflix until you know, and
Speaker 1: they just you know which, By the way, I think
Speaker 1: that was okay at the beginning of quarantine, because I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of kids needed to Everybody was scared,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of stress. They needed to kind
Speaker 1: of you know, go go inside a little bit. But
Speaker 1: I agree with you that after a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: of that, everybody had to kind of all right, you know,
Speaker 1: how are we going to structure, like you said, how
Speaker 1: we're going to structure our day, how we're going to
Speaker 1: structure our life? And basically I'm I'm saying it's okay
Speaker 1: to me because I let my kids do that for
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, you know, because I was kind
Speaker 1: of doing the same thing. Yeah. I think one other
Speaker 1: last anecdote, especially as you get closer to like the
Speaker 1: kid has applied and they're going to hear is that,
Speaker 1: um they feel like, oh what if I don't get in,
Speaker 1: They're going to be so disappointed. You know. It's probably
Speaker 1: a good idea for parents Huven starting now to start
Speaker 1: sharing you know, times in their lives when things didn't
Speaker 1: go their way. I didn't get into all my colleges
Speaker 1: or I really wanted that job at this agency when
Speaker 1: I got out of college, and I didn't get it,
Speaker 1: and so I made a laft And you know, they
Speaker 1: just they think it's been a smooth row for you, Martin. Oh, Martin,
Speaker 1: I have so many stories my children. They know I
Speaker 1: think I think it's helpful for them. Just absolutely that
Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay and that things will happen. Martin Bonia,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. This was so incredibly helpful pleasure, Ali.
Speaker 1: Thank you for including me. Thank you to my guests,
Speaker 1: Logan Powell and Martin Bonia, and thank you all for listening.
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review, and
Speaker 1: follow me in my undoctored posts on social media. I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on Instagram at
Speaker 1: the Real Ali Wentworth. Go ask Ali is a production
Speaker 1: of Shonda land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio.
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