1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: so great to have you here. Back for another episode 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: as we break down the psychology of our twenties. Today, 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm back with another bonus episode. I know, two in 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: how long has it been? Two in two weeks? What 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: is that all about? But I thought, why not? It's 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: my podcast and I want to talk about this topic 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: because I think it is the perfect candidate for some 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: debunking and some fact checking, which you guys know we 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: love to do on these like smaller episodes, our bonus 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: episodes for those of you who may not No, basically 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: just bite size twenty minute pps where we break down 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: a popular psychology term, psychology concept that is generally quite misunderstood, 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: but which you know, we don't have all the time 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: in the world to do a full episode on it, 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: but I still feel like having the right information about 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: it is important, and today we have possibly our biggest 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: concept yet in this mini series we are talking about 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: the psychology of dopamine. Yeah, dopamine. If there was like 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: a pop star, celebrity, royal figure amongst neurotransmitters, or even 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: like amongst psychology concepts, it would be dopamine. I genuinely 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: think I've had this discussion that if you asked somebody 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: to name a psychology term or a psychology concept like, 28 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: dopamine would be up there with one that a lot 29 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: of people would probably say or would probably know, alongside 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: things like attachment style or like Pavlov studies. It's just 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: dopamine is one of those terms that, like the moment you. 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: Mention it, it gives you an air of legitimacy. It gives 33 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: whatever you're saying a sense of importance and that it's factual. 34 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: You know this thing releases dopamine. Therefore, it must be addictive. 35 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: It must be motivational. It must influence your behavior. It 36 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: must be good for you, bad for you. It might 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: end up controlling you. 38 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: The thing is, what I've come to realize is that 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: our fundamental and very basic understanding of dopamine is wrong. 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: Maybe not wrong. It's simplistic, It lacks a lot of detail. 41 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Dopamine is traditionally seen as the thing that makes us 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: happy and brings us pleasure. It's why we like chocolate, 43 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: it's why we like sex, drugs, gambling, all those things. 44 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: But it is much much more layer than that. And 45 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: I think when you actually understand when dopamine is released 46 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: in your brain why, and its role in motivation, in anticipation, movement, 47 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: how it works differently in different areas of the brain 48 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: and of the body, you can actually use the term 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: properly and use it in reference to your own brain 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: and behavior accurately. So let's get into it. I love 51 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: starting these episodes with a bit of history. I feel 52 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: like if I was ever going to do another podcast, 53 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: it would definitely be on the history of psychology or 54 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: like the scientific history of certain concepts that we take 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: for granted for because it is so fascinating and dopamine 56 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: is no different. The history behind this is just interesting. 57 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: The man who allegedly first pinpointed this fantastic little neurochemical 58 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: or neurotransmitter and its role in the brain what was 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: a Swedish man called Arvid Carlson. He actually went on 60 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: to win the Nobel Peace Prize for his role in 61 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: synthesizing dopamine, to treat Parkinson's, to treat depression, to treat 62 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: a post stroke fatigue, to name a few things. But 63 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: here's the secret history for you. Whilst he may have 64 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: gotten all of the credit, and he definitely did do 65 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: some fantastic, incredible work in his lifetime, the first person 66 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: to actually demonstrate the presence of dopamine in the brain 67 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: was a woman. Her name was Catherine Montague. She published 68 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: her findings, her findings that basically were like, dopamine is real. 69 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: I have found it here. It is. 70 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: She published those findings six months before Carson did, and 71 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: you know, she wrote for the first time conclusively about 72 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: this tiny chemical that is only produced by zero point 73 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: zero zero zero zero zero five percent of all brain cells, 74 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: but seemingly has an excessive influence on behavior. Dopamine. Like 75 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: before Catherine's research, because let's give her the credit here, 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: was kind of like a bigfoot lockness monster kind of 77 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: mystery to the psychology and neuroscience community, like maybe a 78 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: little bit more serious, Like they knew it existed, they 79 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: knew there was some interaction with other hormones like adrenaline 80 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: that was going on, but it was only in the 81 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: fifties that the mystery and the role of dopamine in 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: the central nervous system was revealed, and it's gone on 83 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: to be Probably this is crazy to say, but like 84 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: the most famous neurotransmitter now, when the release of dopamine 85 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: is triggered, it acts really really fast, and it acts 86 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: on different zone sites across the brain and body to 87 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: make us do things that we think are helpful. And 88 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: the reason there is such a fuss around dopamine is 89 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: because it drives so many of our behaviors as humans, 90 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: even though our body and our brain doesn't necessarily make 91 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: that much of it. This is where we have to 92 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: tackle I think the first big myth about the psychology 93 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,119 Speaker 1: of dopamine, and that is that dopamine is what makes 94 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: you happy. It is the pleasure hormone, It is the 95 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: pleasure neurochemical. This idea first emerged from some really early 96 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: research back in the seventies and eighties that showed dopamine 97 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: producing regions and dopamine neurons lighting up in response to 98 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: the promise of reward, promise being the key word. This 99 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: kind of led the researchers who were in charge of 100 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: the study to prematurely assume that this meant that it 101 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: dopamine was why certain things felt good and therefore why 102 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: we felt good and therefore played a big role in 103 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: our happiness. This we now know is actually false. It 104 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: isn't what makes us feel pleasure. It's what allows us 105 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: to forecast or predict or imagine how good pleasure can 106 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: and will feel, therefore making us chase after it. Its 107 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: role is in craving and they're anticipating it is the 108 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: do more of that chemical. As one article from The 109 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: New Philosopher puts it, dopamine spikes when we anticipate something 110 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: exciting or pleasurable happening, and it dips when the experience 111 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: comes about. So dopamine it's really present. It happens in 112 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: the lead up to something, and that is why it's 113 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: actually critical, not for happiness, but for motivation. 114 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: Rats, for example, who have. 115 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: Depleted dopamine levels don't work as hard to get food. 116 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: They just can't be bothered compared to normal rats. Super 117 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: high dopinogenic people like people who have a lot of dopamine, 118 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: on the other hand, are the types who you meet 119 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: who are forever planning. They have a new business and 120 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: new scheme, a new partner, and they've always got something 121 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: that they want to do. They're never at rest, They're 122 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: always seeking the next thing. They are living from one 123 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: dopamine high to the next. Now, are those people necessarily happier. 124 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: Than most people? 125 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: Though? No, even though they have more dopamine per se, 126 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: or we assume they do, the studies would say they do. 127 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: It's seratonin that gives us that stable mood, and it's 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: dopamine that pushes us to achieve and gain and have 129 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: things that we think will give us happiness, that we 130 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: think will give us stability, but are probably quite shallow 131 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: because they only work to make us want more and 132 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: more and more, and to get slight reward and to 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: experience the high of anticipation followed by the crash. I 134 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: think a lot of us are familiar with when we 135 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: obtain the thing, we obtain the object of our desire 136 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: and we find that it's actually not that satisfying. The 137 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: best way I like to describe this, or at least 138 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: imagine this for myself, is shopping. Particularly people who really 139 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: covet an item, who are like really pursuing a specific 140 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: peace or a specific watch, or they always buying clothes, 141 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: thinking this will be the thing that makes them happy 142 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: to find that when they have it in their possession, 143 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: they've bought it, They've got it. 144 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: Nothing much about. 145 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: Their baseline happiness changes because they're confusing a dopamine hit, 146 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: which is meant to be motivational with long term contentment. 147 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Dopamine is short. 148 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 3: Term, not long term. 149 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: This is why dopamine is heavily implicated in literature and 150 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: in research around addiction. It drives us to fulfill an 151 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: immediate desire, only to fulfill our expectations, meaning that it 152 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: will keep leading us back to drugs, back to gambling, 153 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: back to nicotine, sugary food, poor financial decisions, whatever your 154 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: vice is, because it knows these are the fastest pathways 155 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: to anticipation fulfillment. There's an amazing two thousand and five 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: study that discusses this, and it talks about how dopamine 157 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: actually also has a secondary role in attention, meaning people 158 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: with disrupt to dopamine levels or systems find it hard 159 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: to physically look away, physically ignore, or avoid what they desire. 160 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: Hence why this neurochemical is so powerful in your addiction 161 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: and getting cooked to things Because the things that it's 162 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: leading us back to the things that are going to 163 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: give us immediate reward, meaning that the anticipation is going 164 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: to be greater, meaning that this object is going to 165 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: be more motivational. So that's really what's happening now. Of course, 166 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: when we're depressed, when we're in a rut, when we're 167 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: just like stuck and pessimistic about life, a dopamine deficiency 168 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: definitely may play into this because we can't motivate ourselves 169 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: to do or to want anything, including the things we 170 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: know may help. We can't motivate ourselves to strive. We 171 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: don't have any ambition, we don't have any vision that 172 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: we could change, that life could get better. 173 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 3: So it does. 174 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: Definitely play a role in unhappiness in that it if 175 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: we don't have enough dopamine, right, if our dopamine levels 176 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: are depleted, it's going to feel difficult to want, want, 177 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: or desire or anticipate anything. But a lack of dopamine 178 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: alone is not why we are unhappy. On a deep level. 179 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: Dopamine is not it's not about it's not the happiness hormone. 180 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: It's not the happiness chemical. It's the motivational chemical. So 181 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: here's the second function that dopamine is heavily responsible for 182 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: and it's probably one you don't hear much about online 183 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: or in discussions about dopamine like on TikTok or Instagram 184 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: or wherever. It's movement. Dopamine acts on the basil ganglia 185 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: again deep in our brain. Deep in our brain, that's 186 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: where a lot of our dopamine producing cells are. Dopamine 187 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: acts on the basil ganglia to stimulate movement, to help 188 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: us direct our muscles, to control our nerve cells our body. 189 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: The reason we know it's so vital just for our 190 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: body's ability to move itself is because of diseases like Parkinson's, 191 00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: the progressive neurological disorder. 192 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: Probably know it from Michael J. Fox. 193 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: It causes tremor's, muscle stiffness, confusion. Dopamine and Parkinson's have 194 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: a long history, and we now know that a lot 195 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: of the reason why the park Parkinson's symptoms show up 196 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: is because of a lack of dopamine. Basically, Parkinson's is 197 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: caused by the progressive death of dopamine producing cells in 198 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: the substantia niagra deep in the brain. Literally, the cells 199 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: that could produce this vital chemical die and the reason 200 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: that we don't know. We don't know why that happens, 201 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: like they have some there's all. 202 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: These theories, right. 203 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: Genetics obviously plays a big role in it. Exposure to 204 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: certain chemicals also, but. 205 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 3: We don't really know why. 206 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: It's just those cells that die off, and when they do, 207 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: it means that less dopamine is available, and that seems 208 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: to be directly correlated to this reduction in the ability 209 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: to control deliberate or uncutch and conscious movement to just 210 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: get our body to do what we wanted to do. 211 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: People with Parkinson's will talk about wanting like say, for example, 212 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: you have like a I don't know, like a cup 213 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: of a cup of juice, I don't know, a cup 214 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: of tea in front of you, and you want to 215 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: reach out and grab it and take a sit. People 216 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: with Parkinson's will talk about sitting there having the thought, willing, 217 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: their willing, begging their arm to just simply do like 218 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: it's so easy, just move, just move, grab grab the 219 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: grab the cup, and they it just doesn't work. And 220 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: what's happening is that the command gets stuck in the 221 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: brain because there aren't enough of those little dopamine messages 222 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: to shoot the message down and get our body to comply. 223 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: So when people talk about dopamine and only talk about 224 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: it and it's you know, in reference to happiness and pleasure, 225 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: they miss this vital element. And we're going to talk 226 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: a little bit more about why that's so important in 227 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: a second. But the final big thing dopamine is implicated 228 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: in is learning, which makes sense because it is what 229 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: drives us to seek out novelty and seek out newness 230 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: because of the anticipation of excitement, rewards, stimulation, new experiences. 231 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: It is especially linked to the formation of emotional memories. 232 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: This was indicated by a twenty twenty one study where 233 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: they talked about how. 234 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: Dopamine. Oh my god, what was the study about. 235 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: Again, It's basically emotional music triggered dopamine and actually meant 236 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: that we could memorize lyrics better because of that emotional link. 237 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: There was also another paper i think published the same 238 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: year in Molecular Psychiatry that talks about how dopamine is 239 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: linked to stronger fear memories, which is funny because our 240 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: traditional understanding of dopamine is this happy hormone. 241 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: You wouldn't think of. 242 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: It as having a role in encoding how we think 243 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: of fear and things that have hurt us and frightened 244 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: us and yet terrified us in the past. So this 245 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: is what we miss when we see dopamine purely through 246 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: the pleasure lens. The other thing that happens is that 247 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: a misunderstanding about dopamine can mean that we how do 248 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: I say this like? It can be used for pseudo 249 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: scientific purposes. Because dopamine is such like a flashy catch word, 250 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: any random person can pop it on an Instagram slide, 251 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: or pop it in a video, or put it next 252 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: in a marketing campaign and make us believe that what 253 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: they are saying is true because dopamine. 254 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: Has such a reputation. Right. 255 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: The biggest example of this is, or the biggest example 256 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: of ways that dopamine can become like the ways that 257 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: dopamine can become pseudoscientific and people can talk about it 258 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: in an incorrect way is dopamine detoxes. What is a 259 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: dopamine detox if you haven't. 260 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: Heard about it? 261 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: Basically, it is a practice been popularized in the last 262 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: ten years. It was firstly introduced by this man named 263 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: doctor Cameron's SAPA I think sypath doctor Cameron. I'll call 264 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: him doctor Cameron, and the premise is that you abstain 265 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: from easy dopamine activities with the hopes of reducing your 266 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: baseline sensitivity to dopamine so that you feel rewarded by less. Basically, 267 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: if you're addicted to sugar, let's say, artificial sugar, going 268 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: days without artificial sugar, testing your self control such that 269 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: when you have artificial sugar again just a little bit 270 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: feels as amazing as when you used to have a 271 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: lot of it. That is the premise of a dopamine detox. 272 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: You switch switched artificial sugar with dopamine. The idea is 273 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: we can reset our brain and therefore certain compulsive behaviors 274 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: by essentially starving our brain of easy dopamine. Now I'm 275 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: going to call myself out here, and I'm going to 276 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: say I have mentioned dopamine detoxes on the podcast before 277 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: in a very positive light, specifically with regards to our smartphones. 278 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: I read a few studies about how interrupting your brain's 279 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: and media anticipation of dopamine when you pick up your 280 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: phone it's like essential for breaking an addictive loop. And 281 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: I have talked about it, but I've recently dug a 282 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: little bit further into it. And it's not that experts 283 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: are necessarily opposed to these kind of like abstinate stints. 284 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: They just really disagree with the idea of the use 285 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: of the term detox dopamine. Detox detoxifying dopamine isn't a toxin. 286 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: It's not something your body needs to be rid of 287 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: in order to build back. 288 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 3: Up a purer or healthier reserve. 289 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: As one Harvard article as well in twenty twenty put it, 290 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: you also can't fast from a naturally occurring brain chemical 291 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: like you if we could deliberately deplete dopamine, we know 292 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: the outcome of that Parkinson's Literally, that is what a 293 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: lack of dopamine. That is what a fast depletion of 294 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: dopamine does, Do you know what I mean? So it's 295 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: you actually don't want that, You don't want your brain 296 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: to be without it. Dopamine definitely does rise in response 297 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: to rewards. The availability of dopamine increases with anticipation and 298 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: the anticipation of pleasurable activities. But there's no way that 299 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: you can go into your brain or you can directly 300 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: influence the level of dopamine available in your brain through 301 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: behavioral choices. Other than like maybe maybe diet, but only 302 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: then in terms of like increasing levels and the availability 303 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: and the health. 304 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: Of your own brain. 305 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: What's really happening is not with dopamine detoxes. Is not 306 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: that you're increasing sensitivity. It's not that you are literally 307 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: reducing dopamine levels, because that's impossible unless you have a 308 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: neurodegenerative disease. It's that you're practicing mindfulness. That is why 309 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: dopamine detoxes work. Again, not that they're the right term, 310 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: but that's why the premise behind them works. A dopamine 311 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: fast is basically just reasserting control over behaviors that have 312 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: become and manageable because you're finally paying attention to the 313 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: ways that they become detrimental to your life and the 314 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: self control that you may or may not be able 315 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: to have over them. The results we see of needing 316 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: less to feel a similar level of reward or gaining 317 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: control over certain habits is not the depletion or the 318 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: It's not that you are asserting control over dopamine. It's 319 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: a completely different psychological system. 320 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: What you're really what's really. 321 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: Happening and what you're really experiencing, is executive function and 322 00:19:53,320 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: executive control that interrupts a previously enforced loop behavioral. Essentially, 323 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: your brain has learned a very efficient cycle of Q 324 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: craving action reward. You know, if you feel slightly uncomfortable, 325 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: if you feel bored, anxious, understimulated, and you reach for 326 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: your phone and you receive the reward of that behavior. 327 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: Over time, the loop becomes automatic. Being on my phone 328 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: makes me happy. 329 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: So I should do it more. 330 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: What a dopamine detox actually does is not you know, 331 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: by abstaining, you're not actually depleting dopamine levels. What it 332 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: does is just insert conscious awareness back into the equation. 333 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: Instead of immediately obeying the craving, you pause, you observe it, 334 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: you tolerate it. And every time you do that, you 335 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: strengthen the brain systems involved in self regulation and you 336 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: weaken the automatic reinforcement cycle that was running unchecked before. 337 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: So that's really what's happening in these detoxes. This is 338 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: what's happening when we talk about being able to control dopamine, 339 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: and that is the true psychology behind dopamine that we 340 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: get wrong. More dopamine doesn't make you happier. Something triggering 341 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: dopamine doesn't mean it will become addictive. The reason certain 342 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: drugs or activities are addictive isn't because they spike dopamine 343 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: and give us something that's only a small part of it. 344 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: It's often because they take away or mask a different, 345 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: more unpleasant sensation, and so our body has learned that 346 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: the presence of this thing makes us feel better. Dopamine's 347 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: role in that is that it just helps you learn 348 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: that association. It's not responsible for the end feeling, and 349 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: it's definitely not something that you can detox control. And 350 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: dopamine certainly isn't this bad addictive thing that you need 351 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: to avoid. What we can take from this, I think, 352 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: my God, look at me, I'm soor what we can 353 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: take from this? I sound like a lecturer, But what 354 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: we can take from this is just really important shift 355 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: in how we understand motivation. 356 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: Most of us. 357 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: Assume that we are driven by the reward itself, the promotion, 358 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: the text back, the dopamine hit from social media, from 359 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: impulse shopping, from dessert achievement. But psychology and euroscience show 360 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: that what actually drives behavior far more powerfully is the 361 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: anticipation of the reward. It is the possibility of pleasure, 362 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: not always the pleasure itself that keeps us moving, and 363 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: this knowing this can change how we motivate ourselves. If 364 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: anticipation is what energizes you or energizes us, then creating 365 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: small moments of reward is better than large, massive ones. 366 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: Goals work better when they feel just within reach. Breaking 367 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: down tasks and giving yourself micro rewards along the way 368 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: is going to improve your motivation to carry through. Habits 369 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: become easier when there's some sense of emotional payoff and 370 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: there's some anticipation attached to their achievement. That is how 371 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 1: we can use this new understanding of dopamine to actually 372 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: apply principles of reward and motivation and anticipation to our 373 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: lives and just get more stuff done. 374 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 3: So there you go. 375 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: That is the end of our little mini bonus episode 376 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: on the psychology or the debunked psychology of dopamine. I 377 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: hope that you've enjoyed it. I hope that it's given 378 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: you some fun facts to share at the dinner table 379 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: or with your friends. I think I said this in 380 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: our last episode, but now you can be that annoying 381 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: person who like corrects people when they use the word 382 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: dopamine wrong. It's satisfying the first time, and then you 383 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: start to realize that your people don't like you as much. 384 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: But I just think it's good for our own self 385 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: knowledge and our own self awareness. So I hope you 386 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. Remember we have a bunch more episodes 387 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: just like this, debunking popular psychology myths. We did one 388 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: last week on the myth of the frontal lobe developing 389 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: at twenty five. If you want more fun history behind 390 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: psychological principles, that is an amazing one to listen to. 391 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: The link between here's a spoiler. We talk about Leonardo DiCaprio, 392 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: we talk about the death penalty, and we talk about pseudoscience, 393 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: So if you want to understand how all of those 394 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: are linked up, great episode for you to listen to. 395 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: Of course, all of our regular episodes are now on 396 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Netflix if you want to watch. Not this one because 397 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: this is just an audio episode for my og audio listeners, 398 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: but any number of our other episodes are on Netflix 399 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: if you ifould prefer to watch video podcasts. What else 400 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: have we got for you, substack, We've got Instagram. All 401 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: of the links will be down below, But until next time. 402 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening. 403 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: Be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, and we 404 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: will talk very very soon.