WEBVTT - HBO’s The Last of Us Ep. 5 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.080 Warning, This podcast contains spoilers for the Last of Us 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:23.360 Episode five. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.920 Rosey Night, and welcome to Next Revision the Crooked Media podcast, 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:31.040 where we are diving d all the way down to 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.559 the sinkhole beneath Kansas City. Do we talk about your 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:37.839 favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture? 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.720 In this episode, we're digging into episode five of The 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.600 Last of Us. In the alge just Gonna make you 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.000 cry again, Sorry, and in nerd Out, we've got a 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.160 really brilliant theory about the importance of Marvel video games 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.920 in the MCU, which feels particularly relevant right now with 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.440 the way DC is trying to cross those things over. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.080 Of course, if you want to jump around, check out 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.120 the show notes for time stamps. Let's go to the airlock. 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.240 We're stepping out of the airlock and into the remnants 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.320 of Kansas City's czy for episode five of The Last 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:26.520 of Us on HBO and HBO Max, titled Endurance Survived. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.800 This episode was written by Craig Mason and directed by 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:34.000 Jeremy web And Boy, for all the folks who were 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.720 like this needs to be more of this show needs 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:38.800 to be more like the video game. Last two episodes 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.880 have given us the more like the video game part 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.360 of this story and this execution. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.840 Yeah, and I think that a lot of people who 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.400 played the game off the seeing episode three were wondering 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.960 at the end of episode four, when we saw Henry 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.960 and Samurai, if that would be a kind of Bill 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:58.440 and Frank reconsideration. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.720 There is in a time any kind of nuanced moments. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.160 But if you're ready to get your heart broken because 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:05.680 you saw them, it's gonna happen. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:10.639 This episode. It's just brutal. We open in a flashback 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.000 of what we learn is about ten days before the 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.360 arrival of Joel and Ellie and Kansas City, and it 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.000 is the fall of Fedra in the Kansas City QZ. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.480 The rebels, Kathleen's rebels, we are soon to learn, are 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.400 celebrating their victory with fireworks and flares and chances and 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:37.720 freedom and torture and the summary execution of various federal 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:43.600 soldiers and citizen collaborators we are soon to meet. Trucks 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:49.280 are circling the streets making the pretty unconvincing announcement that 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.720 collaborators who surrender will receive a. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.000 Fair truck I'm pretty sure that if you just look 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.720 out in the streets at what happened here, you got 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:05.200 them fair trial statement is not really ringing true. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.680 I mean they're like straight up hanging people out here. Yeah. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.400 And I also I want to give you a shout 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:11.200 out because I do. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.920 I do feel like even though it was like, you know, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.080 Drugman and Mason had said, oh, there's this kind of 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.600 revolutionary aspect. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.120 I feel like a lot of people, including. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.399 Myself, the first time I watched it in episode four, 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.240 it was kind of like the Kathleen stuff kind of 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.840 felt very quick and we didn't really get a lot 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.720 of insight into motivations. But you were absolutely right about 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.680 kind of the space that she takes up in this world. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:40.840 This was an anti federal revolution that was led by Kathleen, who, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.680 as we gonna learn and as you pointed out last week, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:48.800 sees Henry as the reason for like a great loss 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:50.560 in her life, and it was kind of crazy to 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.480 see that just come directly to life. 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.279 And it's such a good This episode is so good. 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.160 At expanding on this kind of moral gray area that 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.480 the show is really trafficking in compared to the kind 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.760 of good in the game you know, the hunters, they're 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.400 just evil, but here we learn a lot about the 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.640 lengths people will go to survive. That's kind of how 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.240 I feel like this episode. 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.800 Is I agree with you that something like the overthrowing 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.320 Fedra I guess you could argue is like, certainly it 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.200 was just listen. We find out how they were hanging people. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.159 We find out that Fedra here had a reputation for 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.160 cruelty and that they had a twenty year reign of rape, murder, 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.200 and torture. I'm all four overthrowing them. I also think, like, 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.560 it's not thirty seconds into the revolution before the thing 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.880 goes off the rails into completely indefensive one. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.960 Yeah, we learn we learn pretty quickly that there's two 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.160 versions of what this revolution could be, and it's because 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.320 it is Kathleen who's leading it that it goes this way. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.200 It is a It is a vehicle for her vengeance, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.600 we are soon to learn. So hiding in the streets 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.520 as this chaos is unfolding is Henry and a young 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.800 death boy Sam. Henry tells Sam what they're gonna do. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.520 You know what the plan is to get out of 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.000 here using sign language, and it's basically, hey, stay close 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.280 to me. We don't worry. Everything's gonna be fine. We're 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:18.160 gonna get out of here. Elsewhere, we see Kathleen lording 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.760 in her victory over FEDRA. She's got a bunch of 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:29.320 FEDRA prisoners not even collaborate, they're citizen collaborators whom Wood 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.799 were doing what they needed to do to survive. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.120 There is a moral grayness there, but that is the 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:36.960 question is some of these people were doing it for 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.160 unbelievable reasons, and some of them, like she points out, 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.400 we're doing it to like get fresh fruit. So it's 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.760 kind of like there's a there's a very strange system 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.960 that was put in place by this fascistic FEDRA who 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:50.840 would lead in the QS. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:56.359 And you know, FEDRA clearly created its antagonist because Kathleen, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.960 she says, we learned that. We learn that her lieutenant's 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.320 name is Perry. She says, you know, Perry, I used 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.360 to be so scared of these people, and now look 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.719 at them. And she's talking about the thing you were saying, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:16.799 which was that apparently these collaborators did what they did 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.280 in order for access to medicine, to fresh food, to 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.400 you know, whatever counts as a luxury in the Kansas 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:29.560 City QZ and the rest of the population received depression 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.600 and torture and probably murder. And she says, did you 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.280 make did it make you feel better? Did it make 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.720 you feel safe? How does it make you feel now 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.880 in this way that you understand that you're not going 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:42.680 to get any kind of fair shake with her. She 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.720 insists that there will be trials, although she then says 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.280 right afterwards, but you're all guilty, so we know how 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:53.599 that'll go, okay, And then she says, and you'll do 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.280 some time, but first you're gonna have to basically give 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:04.040 up the information on other collaborators. Specifically, the one that 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.360 Kathleen wants above all others is Henry. Where is Henry? 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.760 There's no answers, So Kathleen's like, okay, Perry kill them all. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.000 And then so a guy's like, oh wait, wait, he's 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.360 with Edelstein. This is we are soon to learn the 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:22.200 doctor from the previous episode, and apparently it is a 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.160 shock to Kathleen that Edelstein was a collaborator. She is 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:30.680 she is very surprised to learn this, and the man 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.400 tells Kathleen that Edelstein has he had a safe house 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.040 somewhere out in the city in case quote things went bad, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:41.320 but he doesn't know where. So Kathleen orders her people 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.920 to go door to door until Henry is found, and 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:49.440 Perry's like, I think pretty wisely is like, wait, hold on, 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.840 we just like literally just had a revolution. Maybe we 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.240 need to stabilize things, like we could use people in 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.960 different places doing different things, not just like hunting for 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.440 one guy. And Kathleen is like. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.600 Excuse me what She's like, he's not my seventh priority, 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:06.680 Like he is my number one priority? 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.200 Is he not your number one priority? And it is 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.160 very clear from this interaction that whatever, whatever the reason 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:18.240 is that people follow Kathleen, a significant ingredient to that 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.280 reason is fear. They are both entranced but also afraid 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.560 of her, afraid to cross her in any kind of way. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.200 And then he's like Perry's like, hey, are we really 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:34.800 putting him on trial? And gal Arry, Pry, babe, what 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.480 are you saying? Absolutely not just why did you have 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.840 to loss? If yeah, go on, we got we got 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:48.880 people like smashing broken bottles into people's juggulars outside, you know, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.040 like there's no trial, there's no trials going on Henry, 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.880 And we see Henry and Sam enter a building. There's 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.920 gunshots ringing out in the streets behind them. Meet Edelstein 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.160 climb up to the attic that we also saw in 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.200 the previous episode, and this is the safe house that 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.480 the man was talking about, and Edelstein is telling Henry 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.520 and Sam, hey, this is safe. There's water, there's toilets. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.800 You can stay here for a while. And we also 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.120 learn important information coming off of the end of the 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.640 previous episode that Henry's gun is empty. He's bluffing, flat 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.600 out bluffing. So Henry's plan is to sneak out through 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.480 the tunnels, which Edelstein thinks, why don't you just hang 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:40.280 yourself here in this it's a very it's the timeline. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.160 We will find out why, Laiza, Yes, we will. Edelstein 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.720 then asks if Sam the boy is scared, and Henry's like, yeah, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.559 I mean he saw twenty five murders, you know, many 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:57.200 many MUDs. Yeah, And then Edelstein says, he's scared because 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.160 you're scared. So Henry ta the hint and goes to 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.000 ease the boy's mind, basically saying, hey, look at how 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.400 brave I'm being. I'm not scared of this. I'm not 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.720 scared of what's going on, and he gives Sam a 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.120 big bag of crayons and the boy starts to decorate 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.200 the area. We see the drawings, of course at the 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:20.240 end of the previous episode, but I think there's something 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.280 really affecting, Like it really got me this, Like it 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:28.600 just shows you. So he's drawing illustrations of this superhero 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.520 called Savage Starlight wears red mask and it has cost 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.720 you much like Superman, and it just kind of shows you, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.000 like the power of the superhero fantasy, of the idea 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.839 that there is a powerful person who's not going to 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.000 misuse their strength and who's going to do the right thing, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.319 and who's going to come and save people. And it 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:56.440 must feel Henry must feel so powerless in this moment, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.880 just a flesh and blood person doing is surrounded by 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.760 these pictures that are like the embodiment of this fantasy 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.719 that Sam has that someone, some hero can just put 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:09.440 a stop to this. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.680 Yeah, And I think something that's really interesting too, is 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.040 like I love that because it is this this idea 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.800 of this comic book superhero kind of becomes really important 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.640 this episode. But also I think something that's very interesting 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:27.080 is the pictures that Sam is drawing and painting. They 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.280 include the superhero like killing Feder, like this is like 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.439 it's it's both sides, like he has seen violence from 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.480 both sides, but a lot of his dream was like 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.640 this superhero would come and kind of get rid of 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.640 Feder and get rid of this fascistic force. And it's 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.760 this really heartbreaking reality of what that ended up looking like. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.560 And the fact that now the person that Sam wanted 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.000 to save them somebody stopping Fedra is now the person 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.360 who's hunting them down. And yeah, the visuals, the visualization 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.880 of this drawing and the drawing I'm assuming the act 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.959 to Dig because we see him doing all like beautiful, 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:08.200 so beautiful and really moving. And they also remind you 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.839 that this is just a kid, like this is an 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.360 eight year old kid, you know, and it's oh yeah, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.080 just really really powerful stuff. And these two actors who 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:19.880 portray these characters are just. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.040 Such good casting. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.160 Like it's Lamar Johnson as Henry and Covon Woodward as Sam, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.720 and it's just like it's just like Bill and Frank. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.400 You want to see more of them, You want to 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.600 see more. I want to see more. X Ray Vision 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.240 will be back. We're excited to announce the return of 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.280 Stuck with Damon Young, in original podcast from Crooked and Spotify. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.280 On this show, award winning author Damon Young has returned 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.160 for more off the cuff conversations inspired by today's most 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:53.360 culturally relevant headlines and roundups of Damon approved listeners submitted questions. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.720 He's joined by some of the brightest minds and bold 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.959 voices of the black community, including Keise Layman, Roy Wood, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.360 Elaine Welterroth, Nicole, Hannah Jones, and Moore. The trailer is 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.760 live right now. In the first episode drops February sixteenth. 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.160 Listen to Stuck with Damon Young for free only on Spotify, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.840 and we're back. We fast forward ten days. The pair 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.320 are down to their last can of food. Henry looks 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.000 outside and the roundup of collaborators, even ten days later 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:28.080 is continuing. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.160 And it's this very like there's like tanks driving down 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.520 the street on timing. This is like become a military 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.840 as much of a military operation as feder You can 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:42.319 tell like they're ready to keep this town. Oh yeah, I. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.280 Said it before, and it's a thing that I've talked 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.200 about in other pods, But it's like you don't you 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:53.200 don't think about an enemy as a person or a 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:58.080 group that you have a relationship with. But the relationship 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.120 between antagonists is a very real one. And in this case, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.440 just like in many cases, the enemy created the mirror 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.160 image of itself that has not taken over. Like for whatever, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:15.160 whatever the the high flung ideals of freedom and a 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:19.640 return to safety and security that that sparked this revolution war, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.200 they've become fedra. They are for all intensive purposes, the 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.440 thing that they overthrew. Sam meanwhile, ten days later, continues 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.120 to draw. He's passing time with his art and all 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.400 the while, Kathleen's people are getting closer, getting closer, getting closer, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.680 and Edelstein hasn't been back in a while. He went 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:40.280 on may not. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.920 Du and its coming back, may not return. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.760 Sam flat out is like he's dead, isn't he. Henry's like, probably, yeah, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.920 he's probably dead. Sometime after this, Henry is like, Sam, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.000 we got to leave. We have to leave, and I 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.880 know that's scary, but here again, Henry, trying to be 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:05.720 that superhero, is like, don't worry, because I've analyzed almost 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.880 like almost like in a video game, you know, like 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.920 I've analyzed the patterns that I've used them every day, like, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.000 we can make it. Yeah, we can do it. We 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.680 can get past them because I've watched their patterns and 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.040 you trust me. I can you know, don't worry, I 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.040 can do it. And again they embrace, they hug, and 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.640 they're surrounded by these drawings, and there again you get 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:36.480 this feeling of of how small and weak Henry has 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:42.040 to feel with this incredibly heavy burden that he has 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.360 surrounded by these images of what that the person he's 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.600 sworn to protect, you know, dreams about, which is just 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.320 like a person who would come and protect them. 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.160 Yeah, And it's this really heartbreaking kind of evolution as 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:03.280 we get through that episode too, because we come to 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.280 see that and learn that Henry in no way sees 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.080 himself as a hero. He sees himself as the bad guy. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.880 So to constantly have his brother like dreaming of this 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.920 heroic figure or seeing Henry as this heroic figure, is 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.320 like really a heartbreaking thing. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.360 So they're getting ready to leave their safe house when 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.360 they hear a screech of tires and gunshots and this 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.440 is the sound of the ambush of Joel and Ellie, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.880 and Henry watches all this unfold through the window, and 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.440 he turns to Sam as he watches Joel, you know, 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.240 in Henry's mind easily dispatch like two of Kathleen's militia. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.560 He turns to Sammy says, new plan. So now we're 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.680 back where we left off in the previous episode. Henry 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.480 and Sam. They get to drop on Ellie. Henry has 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.160 his gun on Ellie. Sam has his gun on Joel, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:05.600 and Henry immediately feels that Joel is the danger. So 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.880 he's like, hey, look at me, listen, We're not here 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.840 to hurt you. We can help each other. We haven't 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.160 hurt you at all, Like we didn't shoot you. I'm 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.199 gonna put my gun down, and then you know, we 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.960 can have a truce, right, we can just you know, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.280 was that okay? And it's very obvious that Henry has 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.719 not done shit like this before. He doesn't know what 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.040 to do in a situation like this. And it's also 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:32.000 obvious just by Joel's demeanor that he's a hard ass, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.760 that he's a Yeah, I mean he has seen him 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:36.440 kill guys like just the other day. 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.879 Yeah, But it's also just like in the moment, he 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.919 is not scad Like if Joel wanted these kids, he 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:42.880 could disarm them. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:50.200 Uh So, when Joel is like to Henry's query of like, hey, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.000 so I'm gonna put my gun down, it's cool, right. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.159 When Joel says like okay, like the undertaker or something, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.000 Henry is really and rightfully nervous and is like, hey, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.800 it's really weird the way you said okay. And Ellie's 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:07.520 like no, no, no, he's just got like resting asshole voice. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.960 But you can't help being like that, right, Joel. So 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.880 Henry's like, okay, fine, I'm gonna trust you, but if 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.240 you try anything like I'm going to shoot Ellie. Of course, 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.480 Now again Henry's gun is empty. Henry then tells Joel 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:25.120 uh that he and Sam are brothers, and that he 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.240 is the most wanted man in Kansas City. The militia 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.320 out there they're searching, they're looking for him. Although right 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.480 now Joel and Ellie are probably you know number two, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.920 you're running in close second, he says. Later, they eat 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.000 off Joel and Ellie supplies, and Ellie introduces herself and 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.919 makes really effective small talk the way that kids just 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.080 can you know, like these are they immediately fallen together 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.639 as people, as peers people broadly in the same age group, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.000 and you can tell that Ellie just like delights in 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:57.440 being around Sam. 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.000 And she's so happy to see Sam and just yeah 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.040 for the power of them to kind of have somebody 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.160 who's more on her level, who also gives her someone 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.439 to kind of like look off, uh, and also is 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.760 not Joel, who is like really cranky all the fucking time. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:17.119 So they're having this dinner and Ellie's introduced herself to 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.080 Henry and Sam. She's asked Sam how old he is. 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.800 There's this nice little rapport building, and then Ellie hits 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.080 Joel on the leg like are you going to introduce yourself, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.919 and Joel like, I'm Joel. Listen, we didn't kill each other. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:34.600 Let's call this a win win and get out of here, 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:41.040 to which Henry is like, no, I have an offer. Clearly, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.080 you two, Henry says, came up here to find a 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.040 way out of the city. I know the way. I 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.879 know the way out of the city, and I promise 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:49.879 tomorrow I will tell you what it is. So the 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.639 next day it's light, we see that they're in like 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.040 a conference room of what was formerly like a business office, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.920 and they're looking out at the streets of Kansas city. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.800 There are humbies going up and down Kathleen's people, and 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.840 you know, Henry's like, welcome to what does he call it? 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:16.320 We Killer k C. And apparently Casey Fedra was the 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.280 worst of the world. It's unclear like how much coordination 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:21.240 and command and control there is in feder. 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.239 It seems pretty clear got dropped in and then it 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:25.360 was just like survive. 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.119 Yeah, And it seems pretty clear that each feder that 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.680 controlled whatever QZ was just kind of doing its own 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.840 thing without any kind of oversight, you know. 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.239 And the baseline was terrible, Like if we look at 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.520 the Boston QZ, they were just hanging people for leaving 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.800 the QZ. And it seems like in spite of how 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:48.480 bad that was, this is this is worse. 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.720 So Henry talks about it. He says, you know, this 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.919 was the worst of the worst. The Federal here were rapists, murderers, 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.960 Their reign of terror went into a like the moment 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.960 basically the QZ was built. And he says something I 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:06.879 think very important here. He says, what happens when you 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.320 do that to people the moment they get a chance, 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.280 they do it right back. And that's what's going on now. 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.160 Henry then tells Joel that listen, I'm not Fedra, I'm 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.040 kind of work. I'm a collaborator. And Joel's like, I 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.120 don't work with rats today, you do, Henry says, because 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.280 I know this city, and he goes about proving it. 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.480 Can I just say Joel is a hypocrite? Yeah, because 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.440 I saw that. I saw that, Like, I know he didn't. 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.679 I know he like, I get it. He's not a snitch, 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.080 he's not, but he has informed on people. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.199 He hasn't informed on people, but I saw him like 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.240 given Fedrick, drugs, get him ration cards, well sneak. It's 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.880 it's the levels of what you have to do to survive. 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.800 And we learn that Henry is weighed this, this is 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.040 weighed heavily on him what he had, He did. 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.600 Very very recently admit that he ambushed and murdered innocent 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:10.399 people exactly Joel Jewel riding the smallest high horse ever witnessed. Also, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:11.160 this guy is like. 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.000 A teenager as well. Like that's the other thing. I'm like, Joe, 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.520 you're like fifty six, bro, Like you probably rid on 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.080 people when you're a teenager, though, you know not to 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:20.160 defend collaborators. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:20.440 I think this. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.880 I think this is one of the most interesting thing 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.879 about this episode is like it's all about this horrifically 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.240 morally gray area of like what you do for survival, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.399 and at no point are they like this is the 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.280 right thing or this is the wrong thing, other than 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.080 like Kathleen's vengeance is obviously like consumed her. But there 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.440 is this really interesting pullem push in this episode about 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.960 I agree, the lengths people will go to survive and 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:47.800 how that can be like weaponized. 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.760 Yeah, you're absolutely right on the kind of scale of 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:58.879 immoral behavior. For some reason, we joel ambushing innocent people 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.080 to take their clothes and food and guns and whatever 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.440 else they had somehow feels maybe because it's more active 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.639 in the in the you know, within the context of 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:12.840 we did what we had to do, feels like more 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.160 actively doing what you had to do. That feels somehow 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:20.520 more honorable, that's the right word, because you're doing it 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.280 you had to do by informing on people who will 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.920 then go out and do the thing that you were 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.240 too weak or unarmed to do yourself. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.520 Informing on people to survive when those people were probably 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.640 just doing what they had to survive. It's this, it's 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.119 this really horrible kind of a Rowborus cycle. But yeah, 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:42.120 I think they do a really interesting job, as we'll 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.080 learn a bit further in this episode, of really expanding 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.720 on that space with Henry's story and making he he 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:55.639 essentially becomes like the person with the un the unchoosable task. 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.600 That's like they do a great job of building it 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.000