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Speaker 1: Warning, This podcast contains spoilers for the Last of Us

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Speaker 1: Episode five. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on

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Speaker 1: Rosey Night, and welcome to Next Revision the Crooked Media podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we are diving d all the way down to

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Speaker 1: the sinkhole beneath Kansas City. Do we talk about your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture?

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we're digging into episode five of The

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Speaker 2: Last of Us. In the alge just Gonna make you

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Speaker 2: cry again, Sorry, and in nerd Out, we've got a

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Speaker 2: really brilliant theory about the importance of Marvel video games

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Speaker 2: in the MCU, which feels particularly relevant right now with

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Speaker 2: the way DC is trying to cross those things over.

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Speaker 1: Of course, if you want to jump around, check out

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Speaker 1: the show notes for time stamps. Let's go to the airlock.

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Speaker 1: We're stepping out of the airlock and into the remnants

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Speaker 1: of Kansas City's czy for episode five of The Last

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Speaker 1: of Us on HBO and HBO Max, titled Endurance Survived.

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Speaker 1: This episode was written by Craig Mason and directed by

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Speaker 1: Jeremy web And Boy, for all the folks who were

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Speaker 1: like this needs to be more of this show needs

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Speaker 1: to be more like the video game. Last two episodes

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Speaker 1: have given us the more like the video game part

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Speaker 1: of this story and this execution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: played the game off the seeing episode three were wondering

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Speaker 2: at the end of episode four, when we saw Henry

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Speaker 2: and Samurai, if that would be a kind of Bill

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Speaker 2: and Frank reconsideration.

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Speaker 1: There is in a time any kind of nuanced moments.

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Speaker 2: But if you're ready to get your heart broken because

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Speaker 2: you saw them, it's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: This episode. It's just brutal. We open in a flashback

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Speaker 1: of what we learn is about ten days before the

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Speaker 1: arrival of Joel and Ellie and Kansas City, and it

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Speaker 1: is the fall of Fedra in the Kansas City QZ.

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Speaker 1: The rebels, Kathleen's rebels, we are soon to learn, are

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Speaker 1: celebrating their victory with fireworks and flares and chances and

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Speaker 1: freedom and torture and the summary execution of various federal

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Speaker 1: soldiers and citizen collaborators we are soon to meet. Trucks

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Speaker 1: are circling the streets making the pretty unconvincing announcement that

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Speaker 1: collaborators who surrender will receive a.

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Speaker 3: Fair truck I'm pretty sure that if you just look

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Speaker 3: out in the streets at what happened here, you got

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Speaker 3: them fair trial statement is not really ringing true.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're like straight up hanging people out here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I also I want to give you a shout

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Speaker 1: out because I do.

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Speaker 2: I do feel like even though it was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: Drugman and Mason had said, oh, there's this kind of

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Speaker 2: revolutionary aspect.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people, including.

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Speaker 2: Myself, the first time I watched it in episode four,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of like the Kathleen stuff kind of

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Speaker 2: felt very quick and we didn't really get a lot

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Speaker 2: of insight into motivations. But you were absolutely right about

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Speaker 2: kind of the space that she takes up in this world.

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Speaker 2: This was an anti federal revolution that was led by Kathleen, who,

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Speaker 2: as we gonna learn and as you pointed out last week,

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Speaker 2: sees Henry as the reason for like a great loss

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Speaker 2: in her life, and it was kind of crazy to

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Speaker 2: see that just come directly to life.

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Speaker 1: And it's such a good This episode is so good.

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Speaker 2: At expanding on this kind of moral gray area that

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Speaker 2: the show is really trafficking in compared to the kind

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Speaker 2: of good in the game you know, the hunters, they're

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Speaker 2: just evil, but here we learn a lot about the

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Speaker 2: lengths people will go to survive. That's kind of how

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Speaker 2: I feel like this episode.

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Speaker 1: Is I agree with you that something like the overthrowing

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Speaker 1: Fedra I guess you could argue is like, certainly it

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Speaker 1: was just listen. We find out how they were hanging people.

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Speaker 1: We find out that Fedra here had a reputation for

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Speaker 1: cruelty and that they had a twenty year reign of rape, murder,

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Speaker 1: and torture. I'm all four overthrowing them. I also think, like,

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Speaker 1: it's not thirty seconds into the revolution before the thing

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Speaker 1: goes off the rails into completely indefensive one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we learn we learn pretty quickly that there's two

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Speaker 2: versions of what this revolution could be, and it's because

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Speaker 2: it is Kathleen who's leading it that it goes this way.

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Speaker 1: It is a It is a vehicle for her vengeance,

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Speaker 1: we are soon to learn. So hiding in the streets

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Speaker 1: as this chaos is unfolding is Henry and a young

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Speaker 1: death boy Sam. Henry tells Sam what they're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: You know what the plan is to get out of

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Speaker 1: here using sign language, and it's basically, hey, stay close

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Speaker 1: to me. We don't worry. Everything's gonna be fine. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get out of here. Elsewhere, we see Kathleen lording

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Speaker 1: in her victory over FEDRA. She's got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: FEDRA prisoners not even collaborate, they're citizen collaborators whom Wood

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Speaker 1: were doing what they needed to do to survive.

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Speaker 2: There is a moral grayness there, but that is the

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Speaker 2: question is some of these people were doing it for

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Speaker 2: unbelievable reasons, and some of them, like she points out,

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Speaker 2: we're doing it to like get fresh fruit. So it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like there's a there's a very strange system

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Speaker 2: that was put in place by this fascistic FEDRA who

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Speaker 2: would lead in the QS.

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Speaker 1: And you know, FEDRA clearly created its antagonist because Kathleen,

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Speaker 1: she says, we learned that. We learn that her lieutenant's

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Speaker 1: name is Perry. She says, you know, Perry, I used

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Speaker 1: to be so scared of these people, and now look

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Speaker 1: at them. And she's talking about the thing you were saying,

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Speaker 1: which was that apparently these collaborators did what they did

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Speaker 1: in order for access to medicine, to fresh food, to

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever counts as a luxury in the Kansas

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Speaker 1: City QZ and the rest of the population received depression

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Speaker 1: and torture and probably murder. And she says, did you

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Speaker 1: make did it make you feel better? Did it make

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Speaker 1: you feel safe? How does it make you feel now

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Speaker 1: in this way that you understand that you're not going

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Speaker 1: to get any kind of fair shake with her. She

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Speaker 1: insists that there will be trials, although she then says

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Speaker 1: right afterwards, but you're all guilty, so we know how

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Speaker 1: that'll go, okay, And then she says, and you'll do

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Speaker 1: some time, but first you're gonna have to basically give

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Speaker 1: up the information on other collaborators. Specifically, the one that

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Speaker 1: Kathleen wants above all others is Henry. Where is Henry?

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Speaker 1: There's no answers, So Kathleen's like, okay, Perry kill them all.

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Speaker 1: And then so a guy's like, oh wait, wait, he's

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Speaker 1: with Edelstein. This is we are soon to learn the

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Speaker 1: doctor from the previous episode, and apparently it is a

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Speaker 1: shock to Kathleen that Edelstein was a collaborator. She is

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Speaker 1: she is very surprised to learn this, and the man

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Speaker 1: tells Kathleen that Edelstein has he had a safe house

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Speaker 1: somewhere out in the city in case quote things went bad,

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Speaker 1: but he doesn't know where. So Kathleen orders her people

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Speaker 1: to go door to door until Henry is found, and

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Speaker 1: Perry's like, I think pretty wisely is like, wait, hold on,

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Speaker 1: we just like literally just had a revolution. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: need to stabilize things, like we could use people in

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Speaker 1: different places doing different things, not just like hunting for

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Speaker 1: one guy. And Kathleen is like.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me what She's like, he's not my seventh priority,

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Speaker 2: Like he is my number one priority?

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Speaker 1: Is he not your number one priority? And it is

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Speaker 1: very clear from this interaction that whatever, whatever the reason

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Speaker 1: is that people follow Kathleen, a significant ingredient to that

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Speaker 1: reason is fear. They are both entranced but also afraid

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Speaker 1: of her, afraid to cross her in any kind of way.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like Perry's like, hey, are we really

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Speaker 1: putting him on trial? And gal Arry, Pry, babe, what

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Speaker 1: are you saying? Absolutely not just why did you have

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Speaker 1: to loss? If yeah, go on, we got we got

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Speaker 1: people like smashing broken bottles into people's juggulars outside, you know,

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Speaker 1: like there's no trial, there's no trials going on Henry,

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Speaker 1: And we see Henry and Sam enter a building. There's

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Speaker 1: gunshots ringing out in the streets behind them. Meet Edelstein

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Speaker 1: climb up to the attic that we also saw in

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Speaker 1: the previous episode, and this is the safe house that

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Speaker 1: the man was talking about, and Edelstein is telling Henry

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Speaker 1: and Sam, hey, this is safe. There's water, there's toilets.

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Speaker 1: You can stay here for a while. And we also

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Speaker 1: learn important information coming off of the end of the

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Speaker 1: previous episode that Henry's gun is empty. He's bluffing, flat

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Speaker 1: out bluffing. So Henry's plan is to sneak out through

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Speaker 1: the tunnels, which Edelstein thinks, why don't you just hang

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Speaker 1: yourself here in this it's a very it's the timeline.

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Speaker 1: We will find out why, Laiza, Yes, we will. Edelstein

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Speaker 1: then asks if Sam the boy is scared, and Henry's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean he saw twenty five murders, you know, many

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Speaker 1: many MUDs. Yeah, And then Edelstein says, he's scared because

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Speaker 1: you're scared. So Henry ta the hint and goes to

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Speaker 1: ease the boy's mind, basically saying, hey, look at how

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Speaker 1: brave I'm being. I'm not scared of this. I'm not

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Speaker 1: scared of what's going on, and he gives Sam a

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Speaker 1: big bag of crayons and the boy starts to decorate

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Speaker 1: the area. We see the drawings, of course at the

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Speaker 1: end of the previous episode, but I think there's something

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Speaker 1: really affecting, Like it really got me this, Like it

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Speaker 1: just shows you. So he's drawing illustrations of this superhero

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Speaker 1: called Savage Starlight wears red mask and it has cost

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Speaker 1: you much like Superman, and it just kind of shows you,

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Speaker 1: like the power of the superhero fantasy, of the idea

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Speaker 1: that there is a powerful person who's not going to

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Speaker 1: misuse their strength and who's going to do the right thing,

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Speaker 1: and who's going to come and save people. And it

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Speaker 1: must feel Henry must feel so powerless in this moment,

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Speaker 1: just a flesh and blood person doing is surrounded by

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Speaker 1: these pictures that are like the embodiment of this fantasy

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Speaker 1: that Sam has that someone, some hero can just put

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Speaker 1: a stop to this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think something that's really interesting too, is

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Speaker 2: like I love that because it is this this idea

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Speaker 2: of this comic book superhero kind of becomes really important

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Speaker 2: this episode. But also I think something that's very interesting

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Speaker 2: is the pictures that Sam is drawing and painting. They

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Speaker 2: include the superhero like killing Feder, like this is like

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Speaker 2: it's it's both sides, like he has seen violence from

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Speaker 2: both sides, but a lot of his dream was like

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Speaker 2: this superhero would come and kind of get rid of

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Speaker 2: Feder and get rid of this fascistic force. And it's

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Speaker 2: this really heartbreaking reality of what that ended up looking like.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that now the person that Sam wanted

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Speaker 2: to save them somebody stopping Fedra is now the person

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Speaker 2: who's hunting them down. And yeah, the visuals, the visualization

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Speaker 2: of this drawing and the drawing I'm assuming the act

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Speaker 2: to Dig because we see him doing all like beautiful,

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Speaker 2: so beautiful and really moving. And they also remind you

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Speaker 2: that this is just a kid, like this is an

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Speaker 2: eight year old kid, you know, and it's oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: just really really powerful stuff. And these two actors who

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Speaker 2: portray these characters are just.

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Speaker 1: Such good casting.

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Speaker 2: Like it's Lamar Johnson as Henry and Covon Woodward as Sam,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like it's just like Bill and Frank.

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Speaker 1: You want to see more of them, You want to

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Speaker 1: see more. I want to see more. X Ray Vision

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Speaker 1: will be back. We're excited to announce the return of

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Speaker 1: Stuck with Damon Young, in original podcast from Crooked and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: On this show, award winning author Damon Young has returned

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Speaker 1: for more off the cuff conversations inspired by today's most

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Speaker 1: culturally relevant headlines and roundups of Damon approved listeners submitted questions.

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Speaker 1: He's joined by some of the brightest minds and bold

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Speaker 1: voices of the black community, including Keise Layman, Roy Wood,

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Speaker 1: Elaine Welterroth, Nicole, Hannah Jones, and Moore. The trailer is

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Speaker 1: live right now. In the first episode drops February sixteenth.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Stuck with Damon Young for free only on Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. We fast forward ten days. The pair

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Speaker 1: are down to their last can of food. Henry looks

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Speaker 1: outside and the roundup of collaborators, even ten days later

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Speaker 1: is continuing.

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Speaker 2: And it's this very like there's like tanks driving down

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Speaker 2: the street on timing. This is like become a military

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Speaker 2: as much of a military operation as feder You can

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Speaker 2: tell like they're ready to keep this town. Oh yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Said it before, and it's a thing that I've talked

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Speaker 1: about in other pods, But it's like you don't you

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Speaker 1: don't think about an enemy as a person or a

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Speaker 1: group that you have a relationship with. But the relationship

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Speaker 1: between antagonists is a very real one. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: just like in many cases, the enemy created the mirror

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Speaker 1: image of itself that has not taken over. Like for whatever,

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Speaker 1: whatever the the high flung ideals of freedom and a

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Speaker 1: return to safety and security that that sparked this revolution war,

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Speaker 1: they've become fedra. They are for all intensive purposes, the

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Speaker 1: thing that they overthrew. Sam meanwhile, ten days later, continues

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Speaker 1: to draw. He's passing time with his art and all

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Speaker 1: the while, Kathleen's people are getting closer, getting closer, getting closer,

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Speaker 1: and Edelstein hasn't been back in a while. He went

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Speaker 1: on may not.

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Speaker 2: Du and its coming back, may not return.

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Speaker 1: Sam flat out is like he's dead, isn't he. Henry's like, probably, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's probably dead. Sometime after this, Henry is like, Sam,

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Speaker 1: we got to leave. We have to leave, and I

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Speaker 1: know that's scary, but here again, Henry, trying to be

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Speaker 1: that superhero, is like, don't worry, because I've analyzed almost

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Speaker 1: like almost like in a video game, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I've analyzed the patterns that I've used them every day, like,

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Speaker 1: we can make it. Yeah, we can do it. We

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Speaker 1: can get past them because I've watched their patterns and

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Speaker 1: you trust me. I can you know, don't worry, I

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Speaker 1: can do it. And again they embrace, they hug, and

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Speaker 1: they're surrounded by these drawings, and there again you get

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Speaker 1: this feeling of of how small and weak Henry has

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Speaker 1: to feel with this incredibly heavy burden that he has

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Speaker 1: surrounded by these images of what that the person he's

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Speaker 1: sworn to protect, you know, dreams about, which is just

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Speaker 1: like a person who would come and protect them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's this really heartbreaking kind of evolution as

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Speaker 2: we get through that episode too, because we come to

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Speaker 2: see that and learn that Henry in no way sees

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Speaker 2: himself as a hero. He sees himself as the bad guy.

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Speaker 2: So to constantly have his brother like dreaming of this

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Speaker 2: heroic figure or seeing Henry as this heroic figure, is

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Speaker 2: like really a heartbreaking thing.

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Speaker 1: So they're getting ready to leave their safe house when

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Speaker 1: they hear a screech of tires and gunshots and this

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Speaker 1: is the sound of the ambush of Joel and Ellie,

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Speaker 1: and Henry watches all this unfold through the window, and

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Speaker 1: he turns to Sam as he watches Joel, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Henry's mind easily dispatch like two of Kathleen's militia.

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Speaker 1: He turns to Sammy says, new plan. So now we're

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Speaker 1: back where we left off in the previous episode. Henry

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Speaker 1: and Sam. They get to drop on Ellie. Henry has

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Speaker 1: his gun on Ellie. Sam has his gun on Joel,

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Speaker 1: and Henry immediately feels that Joel is the danger. So

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Speaker 1: he's like, hey, look at me, listen, We're not here

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Speaker 1: to hurt you. We can help each other. We haven't

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Speaker 1: hurt you at all, Like we didn't shoot you. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna put my gun down, and then you know, we

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Speaker 1: can have a truce, right, we can just you know,

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Speaker 1: was that okay? And it's very obvious that Henry has

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Speaker 1: not done shit like this before. He doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do in a situation like this. And it's also

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Speaker 1: obvious just by Joel's demeanor that he's a hard ass,

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Speaker 1: that he's a Yeah, I mean he has seen him

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Speaker 1: kill guys like just the other day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But it's also just like in the moment, he

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Speaker 2: is not scad Like if Joel wanted these kids, he

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Speaker 2: could disarm them.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, when Joel is like to Henry's query of like, hey,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna put my gun down, it's cool, right.

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Speaker 1: When Joel says like okay, like the undertaker or something,

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Speaker 1: Henry is really and rightfully nervous and is like, hey,

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Speaker 1: it's really weird the way you said okay. And Ellie's

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, he's just got like resting asshole voice.

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Speaker 1: But you can't help being like that, right, Joel. So

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Speaker 1: Henry's like, okay, fine, I'm gonna trust you, but if

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Speaker 1: you try anything like I'm going to shoot Ellie. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Now again Henry's gun is empty. Henry then tells Joel

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Speaker 1: uh that he and Sam are brothers, and that he

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Speaker 1: is the most wanted man in Kansas City. The militia

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Speaker 1: out there they're searching, they're looking for him. Although right

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Speaker 1: now Joel and Ellie are probably you know number two,

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Speaker 1: you're running in close second, he says. Later, they eat

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Speaker 1: off Joel and Ellie supplies, and Ellie introduces herself and

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Speaker 1: makes really effective small talk the way that kids just

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Speaker 1: can you know, like these are they immediately fallen together

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Speaker 1: as people, as peers people broadly in the same age group,

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Speaker 1: and you can tell that Ellie just like delights in

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Speaker 1: being around Sam.

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Speaker 2: And she's so happy to see Sam and just yeah

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Speaker 2: for the power of them to kind of have somebody

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Speaker 2: who's more on her level, who also gives her someone

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Speaker 2: to kind of like look off, uh, and also is

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Speaker 2: not Joel, who is like really cranky all the fucking time.

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Speaker 1: So they're having this dinner and Ellie's introduced herself to

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Speaker 1: Henry and Sam. She's asked Sam how old he is.

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Speaker 1: There's this nice little rapport building, and then Ellie hits

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Speaker 1: Joel on the leg like are you going to introduce yourself,

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Speaker 1: and Joel like, I'm Joel. Listen, we didn't kill each other.

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Speaker 1: Let's call this a win win and get out of here,

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Speaker 1: to which Henry is like, no, I have an offer. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: you two, Henry says, came up here to find a

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Speaker 1: way out of the city. I know the way. I

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Speaker 1: know the way out of the city, and I promise

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Speaker 1: tomorrow I will tell you what it is. So the

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Speaker 1: next day it's light, we see that they're in like

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Speaker 1: a conference room of what was formerly like a business office,

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Speaker 1: and they're looking out at the streets of Kansas city.

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Speaker 1: There are humbies going up and down Kathleen's people, and

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Speaker 1: you know, Henry's like, welcome to what does he call it?

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Speaker 1: We Killer k C. And apparently Casey Fedra was the

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Speaker 1: worst of the world. It's unclear like how much coordination

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Speaker 1: and command and control there is in feder.

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Speaker 2: It seems pretty clear got dropped in and then it

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Speaker 2: was just like survive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it seems pretty clear that each feder that

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Speaker 1: controlled whatever QZ was just kind of doing its own

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Speaker 1: thing without any kind of oversight, you know.

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Speaker 2: And the baseline was terrible, Like if we look at

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Speaker 2: the Boston QZ, they were just hanging people for leaving

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Speaker 2: the QZ. And it seems like in spite of how

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Speaker 2: bad that was, this is this is worse.

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Speaker 1: So Henry talks about it. He says, you know, this

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Speaker 1: was the worst of the worst. The Federal here were rapists, murderers,

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Speaker 1: Their reign of terror went into a like the moment

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Speaker 1: basically the QZ was built. And he says something I

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Speaker 1: think very important here. He says, what happens when you

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Speaker 1: do that to people the moment they get a chance,

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Speaker 1: they do it right back. And that's what's going on now.

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Speaker 1: Henry then tells Joel that listen, I'm not Fedra, I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of work. I'm a collaborator. And Joel's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't work with rats today, you do, Henry says, because

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Speaker 1: I know this city, and he goes about proving it.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say Joel is a hypocrite? Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I saw that. I saw that, Like, I know he didn't.

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Speaker 1: I know he like, I get it. He's not a snitch,

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Speaker 1: he's not, but he has informed on people.

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Speaker 2: He hasn't informed on people, but I saw him like

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Speaker 2: given Fedrick, drugs, get him ration cards, well sneak. It's

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Speaker 2: it's the levels of what you have to do to survive.

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Speaker 2: And we learn that Henry is weighed this, this is

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Speaker 2: weighed heavily on him what he had, He did.

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Speaker 1: Very very recently admit that he ambushed and murdered innocent

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Speaker 1: people exactly Joel Jewel riding the smallest high horse ever witnessed. Also,

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Speaker 1: this guy is like.

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Speaker 2: A teenager as well. Like that's the other thing. I'm like, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you're like fifty six, bro, Like you probably rid on

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Speaker 2: people when you're a teenager, though, you know not to

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Speaker 2: defend collaborators.

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Speaker 1: I think this.

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Speaker 2: I think this is one of the most interesting thing

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Speaker 2: about this episode is like it's all about this horrifically

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Speaker 2: morally gray area of like what you do for survival,

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Speaker 2: and at no point are they like this is the

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Speaker 2: right thing or this is the wrong thing, other than

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Speaker 2: like Kathleen's vengeance is obviously like consumed her. But there

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Speaker 2: is this really interesting pullem push in this episode about

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Speaker 2: I agree, the lengths people will go to survive and

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Speaker 2: how that can be like weaponized.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right on the kind of scale of

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Speaker 1: immoral behavior. For some reason, we joel ambushing innocent people

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Speaker 1: to take their clothes and food and guns and whatever

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Speaker 1: else they had somehow feels maybe because it's more active

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Speaker 1: in the in the you know, within the context of

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Speaker 1: we did what we had to do, feels like more

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Speaker 1: actively doing what you had to do. That feels somehow

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Speaker 1: more honorable, that's the right word, because you're doing it

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Speaker 1: you had to do by informing on people who will

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Speaker 1: then go out and do the thing that you were

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Speaker 1: too weak or unarmed to do yourself.

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Speaker 2: Informing on people to survive when those people were probably

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Speaker 2: just doing what they had to survive. It's this, it's

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Speaker 2: this really horrible kind of a Rowborus cycle. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think they do a really interesting job, as we'll

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Speaker 2: learn a bit further in this episode, of really expanding

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Speaker 2: on that space with Henry's story and making he he

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Speaker 2: essentially becomes like the person with the un the unchoosable task.

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Speaker 2: That's like they do a great job of building it

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Speaker 2: into empathy. He is not one of these people who was,

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Speaker 2: you know, informing on his neighbors to get an apple.

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Speaker 1: Like, there's so much more to it.

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Speaker 2: But I love the way that they kind of have

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Speaker 2: that reaction from Joel. But then we get to see,

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Speaker 2: just like in the game, Henry is really the first

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Speaker 2: person that it feels like Joel kind of opens up

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Speaker 2: to even more than like Ellie, Like there's this kind

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Speaker 2: of unexpected connection there, probably because of these caretaker.

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Speaker 1: Roles, Yeah, very clear parallels. Joel asks a really important question,

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Speaker 1: which is why you're doing this if you know the

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Speaker 1: way up and just fucking go? Uh, And Henry's like,

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Speaker 1: because you're good at fighting and I'm not. And the

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Speaker 1: way we're gonna go is really dangerous. Now I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you what it is. And also my gun is

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Speaker 1: not loaded, so and I've never I've never physically killed anyone.

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Speaker 1: So I need you. Yeah, I need you because, like you,

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Speaker 1: you're good at this. And then Ellie is like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we killed two clickers on the way out here. He's like, see,

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Speaker 1: like you killed two clickers. That's and that clicker and

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Speaker 1: you survived. Like that is such a great It's such

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Speaker 1: a small thing, but a really important moment to let

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Speaker 1: you know how the really, really fierce joy is a fight,

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Speaker 1: and of course we're going to see it at the

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Speaker 1: end of this episode. So then Henry tells him how

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get out. He draws a map, basically a

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Speaker 1: box of four highways in which they are the middle.

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Speaker 1: They are inside that box in the former QZ, which

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Speaker 1: is now controlled by Kathleen's forces. What they need to

430
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: do is get across one of these highways out to

431
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: the river, across the river to safety. But they can't

432
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: do it above ground. The way they're going to have

433
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: to go it's below ground, these maintenance tunnels that were

434
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: built to connect various properties that were once owned by

435
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: the same real estate developer. And so Thenjoel again he's like, well, so,

436
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: why what do you need me for? Yeah, go ahead,

437
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: and do it and then and then Henry gives them

438
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: the bad news. Okay, so there's no infected here, as

439
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: you've noticed, he says, drove them underground fifteen years ago

440
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: and haven't let them up since. Only good things those

441
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: vascious motherfuckers did. But good news, Henry says, the tunnels

442
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: are empty. How do I know? Someone told me it

443
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: was only like three years ago. This is I actually

444
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: love this because there's two things I really love about

445
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: this one. It's a really cool explanation for the evolution

446
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: of the infected. It's like such a cool idit.

447
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: And if you've ever read Max Brooks World War Zoo,

448
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: which I just think is like one of the best

449
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: like sci fi horror books I've written, there is a

450
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: whole plot line about how a certain country, when the

451
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: zombie apocalypse happened, basically they hid all that they all

452
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: moved underground. But then the rumor has it that basically

453
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: the reason no one ever heard from them again, even

454
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: after other places started to recover, was because a zombie

455
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: had gotten in. And it's this idea of all these

456
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: people living underground who have been infected. It's such a

457
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: scary vision. And something else I found that was really

458
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: cool after I watched this episode, is that Kansas City

459
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: actually does have like real ancient underground maintenance tunnels. So

460
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really cool addition. But yeah,

461
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 2: I love that, Like the idea that fedro this federal

462
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: was so brutal that they actually managed to essentially like.

463
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: Rid that city of infected. That's like unheard of.

464
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: It sounds absolutely bonkers, but it tells you something about them.

465
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, Henry's like, oh, it's all

466
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: good now, like three years ago they cleared it. A

467
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: sure sounds too good to be true, my friend, But

468
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: here's the upside, here's the actual upside. Henry tells them

469
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: Kathleen's people won't be there. They're gonna be looking in

470
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: the tunnels, knowing everybody's too scared to go down there.

471
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: And you guys are really good. You killed two clickers.

472
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: You can handle it. So they head out down through

473
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: the lobby of an office building, into the basement and

474
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: down again into the tunnels. Joel and Ellie, after what

475
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: they have already been through their short time together, are

476
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: already on edge. Henry is just like chat, hey, hey,

477
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: look it's empty down here, and they're shut. Joel, of course,

478
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: is not convinced. He just tells them, hey, be ready

479
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: to run. So they move through these tunnels quite a

480
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: long ways until they get quite surprisingly to this area.

481
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: It's like a concrete box with a door on the

482
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: other side, and the concrete walls are painted with scenes

483
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: as if from a kindergarten or a grade school, you know,

484
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: happy children, giant flowers, golden castle. There's a door. They

485
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: go through the door and it's the remnants of an

486
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: elementary school that was built underground. Joel says, I read

487
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: about places like this people went underground after outbreak day

488
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: and very interesting to read the whiteboard behind them. There's

489
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: a whiteboard with the message the rules of the school

490
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: still up. One, make sure the doors are a lot

491
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: to ask for the password if you don't know the visitor. Three,

492
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: no shouting or noisy play for run to the hiding spot.

493
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: When you hear the alarm, and Joel thinks, well, it infected.

494
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: Must have somebody didn't follow the rules. And yeah, I

495
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: thought there was a great moment when they first see this,

496
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: like beautiful painted kind of mural. Sam is so excited

497
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: as an artist, and he kind of runs ahead and

498
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: you get this great moment from Joel where you know

499
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: that Joel of like four days ago would have just

500
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: that kid, would have been the canary in the coal mine.

501
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: But he stops him, and he pushes him back, and

502
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: he goes back in front, and he's getting a little

503
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: bit more of that caring. There's something about the idea

504
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: of looking after these kids in a way he couldn't

505
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: look after Sarah that is really changing who he is.

506
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: And I thought this was such a cool, spooky addition,

507
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: this kind of empty grade school that feels like it's

508
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: going to be this creepy resident evil type space, but

509
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: actually ends up being almost like a sanctuary for them

510
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: for a little bit. It's a really smart inversion of

511
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: kind of what we get what we expected. Sam and

512
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: Ellie find a Savage Starlight comic and then just bond

513
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: over it. She tells him that she has issues four, five, six,

514
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: and eleven. He has issues five, six and eight. They

515
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, kind of reference the tagline of this series,

516
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: which is Endurance Survive, and at Ellie's urging really with

517
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: Henry agreeing it's a good idea, they decide to stay

518
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: there until dark, when they can move around above ground

519
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 1: more safely. Ellie and Sam passed the time playing together,

520
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: and Joel and Henry, as you mentioned, start kind of

521
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: like opening them up up to each other. And Joel,

522
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: already a different guy I think than he was a

523
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: few days ago, basically apologizes so like, hey, I didn't

524
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: know your situation. If you collaborated to help him, I

525
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: get it, like we've all done things. Yeah, He's like,

526
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have judged you. Yeah, I shouldn't have judged you.

527
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: And then Henry is like, oh yeah, what do you

528
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: think about this? And didn't just collaborate and just inform?

529
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: I informed on a great man, a great and charismatic leader.

530
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: Sam got sick leukemia. The only drug that could save

531
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: him was of course, controlled by FEDRA, and so to

532
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: get it, I informed on this person and this person

533
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: the leader and I guess figurehead of the Casey resistance

534
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: movement was Kathleen's brother, which is we learned now why

535
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: she's after him. And he says, still think you should

536
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: take it easy on me? Or am I the bad guy?

537
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: He says, And he says, I'm sure I'm the bad

538
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: guy because I did bad guy stuff. And Joel doesn't

539
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: say it, but you can also tell there's a bunch

540
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: of different emotions going across Pedro Pascal's face here, but

541
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: you can definitely tell that one is discussed at what

542
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: happened and also you did what you had to do.

543
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he he is accepting of this kind of horrible

544
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: story that he has to tell. And there's something you know,

545
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: Henry explains that this guy like always forgave, he was

546
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: always kind. He he had been leading this moment and

547
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: had this kind of this love for all the people

548
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: in his community. But you know, as we're going to

549
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: find out, he led the revolution, but he didn't lead

550
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: them to revolt.

551
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: That was Kathleen. So it's like, you.

552
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: Know, this Henry unintentionally kind of inspires the actual revolution

553
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: by by informing on on this man who you know,

554
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: meant so much, but he did it for like, like

555
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: we were saying earlier, like this is a choice you

556
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: would never want to have to make watch your eight

557
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: you know, child, a child die because the government is

558
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 2: withholding their medication, and you can get that medication if

559
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: you just make one choice. It's all about this idea

560
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: off you have to sacrifice one life for another, you know,

561
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: and it's it's such a heartbreaking kind of expansion.

562
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: But like you said, Joel, Joel is judging him. You know,

563
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: honestly it would have been. You can't make any excuses

564
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: for what it's clear that Fedra did, But the actions

565
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: of Kathleen's forces in their victory also show that, like, okay,

566
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: well kind of what's the difference? Like this story, this

567
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: episode really made me think about how whether someone's a

568
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: hero or a villain really depends on when you meet them.

569
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: You know, when when in your when in their story

570
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: do you arrive because you know where we arrived with Joel,

571
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: is he's a hero because we never saw him ambushing

572
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: and killing untold numbers of innocent people. We see Henry

573
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: as a hero because though he did something horrific and indefensible,

574
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: he's also a completely powerless person trying to protect his

575
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: brother on the run from maniacs with guns. Kathleen, maybe

576
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: if we'd met her two weeks ago, we would have

577
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: been like what an yeah, like and now it's like

578
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: she's power mad and vengeful and like not doing the

579
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: thing that will actually help her community, Like this is

580
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: a personal grievance you should be rebuilding. Why are you

581
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: doing this? There's also an important moment here in this

582
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: exchange where Henry can just immediately tell that Joel was

583
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: once a father because of the way he's like protecting

584
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: Ellie even though he knows that they're not related. We

585
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: go back to Kathleen, who is hanging out in the

586
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: Federa orphanage where her and her brother were raised. Perry

587
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: finds her there h he has no information for her,

588
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: no idea where Henry is, no idea where Joel is,

589
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: no nothing, And he says that he asked, you know,

590
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: people have been looking for her, that nobody had any

591
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: idea where she was, and they had to talk to

592
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: her mom to figure out that she'd be here. And

593
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: then Kathleen starts reminiscing about her brother and how and

594
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: he really did seem like a great guy. You know,

595
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: he acted as her protector, he did, you know, he

596
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: begged her to forgive her enemies. That even the last

597
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: thing that he said to her with when he was in.

598
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: Prison, he said, forgive Henry, like he did what he

599
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: had to do, just forgive him. But she know, and

600
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: she knows that like her brutality and her violence and

601
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: all these terrible things she's done, of things he would hate,

602
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: like if he was here, he would be so disappointed

603
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: in her. And she assumes that Perry is there to

604
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 2: basically say to her, like your brother would say, nay,

605
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 2: Henry alone, like let's just build, let's make things bout.

606
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: But nah, Perry's in, He's he's all in on the

607
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 2: Kathleen train.

608
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: And this is the this is the danger of violence

609
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: is like again, like no one can. It must have

610
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: felt good and just and right, and indeed it probably

611
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: was to rebel against feder and take them down. At

612
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: the same time, the people who were called to violence

613
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: are often like the least stable and worst people you know,

614
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: and uh, and Kathleen is definitely not the person who

615
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: you want to be following in a post revolutionary like.

616
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: She took the following her brother had and utilized because

617
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: her brother died ten days ago, you know, and then

618
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: the revolution happened like it was within that timeframe.

619
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: That is the reason Kathleen is the leader. What did

620
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: your brother do?

621
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 2: He was great, but he didn't overthrow fed You opened

622
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: to Fedra because you were so violent and angry and

623
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: consumed by this vengeance that you could, and you enlisted

624
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: the people around you who had followed your brother to

625
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: do it. It's a it's a very interesting character study.

626
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 2: And obviously mel Nielenski is like incredible.

627
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: She brings a an almost like she brings a pettiness

628
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: to what is a very important clearly like you know,

629
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: existential matter, and I think it says so much about

630
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: her character. She's just like aggrieved, she's like really hurt

631
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: and angry. And also it's just in charge of, like

632
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: of what is a very very dangerous like mob of

633
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: armed people.

634
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such clever casting too, because it's like, and

635
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: this is what Melanie has always been great at. From

636
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: Heavenly Creatures, the Yellow Jackets. Like, people see her and

637
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that's someone who's like a mom, that's

638
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: like my mom. Like, so to see her in this

639
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: midst of this rage, it's not like some tattooed zombie

640
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: survivor with one arm, Like, this is just a woman

641
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: who looks like a really normal white woman in it,

642
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: and she's just been absolutely consumed by this fury and

643
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: like you said, that pettiness, that aggrievedness.

644
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: So when you see her, you know, I saw a.

645
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: Few people who were like I don't know if I

646
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: buy it, Like I'm like, that's your own conception of

647
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: what somebody like that can be like in this the

648
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: whole point of this character in this story is like,

649
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: how would this affect normal people?

650
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: Make them behave?

651
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 2: And in Kathleen's case, it's this kind of nightmarish vengeance

652
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: which will eventually destroy her entire community.

653
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: X Ray Vision will be back and we're back. Finally,

654
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: Henry and the group emerged from the school and they

655
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: come out on the other side of the highway through

656
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: a parking garage. They're in a suburb now it's night,

657
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: no one around. Henry is extremely proud of himself and

658
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: he should be. He actually should be.

659
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: I have to say, she's supremely great fake out by

660
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: the show too, Like I'm like, oh, this is it,

661
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: Like they're gonna be underground, it's gonna be like the

662
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: subways in the game.

663
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: Like they're gonna have to be killing the zombies. No,

664
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: this actually legit Like was a great plan, great plan,

665
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: it worked. What could you say? Joel of course would

666
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: like everybody shut the fuck up because the river. They're

667
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: close to the river, but they're not there yet. And

668
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: then Ellie, surprising Joel invites Henry and Sam told come

669
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: with them to wyoming Joel, you could just tell is

670
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: he's like hard no on that. But before they can

671
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: really discuss it, shots ring out a sniper in a

672
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: house at the end of the street and they're hiding

673
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: behind a car kind of pinned down. Joel tells Ellie, Okay,

674
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: you guys stay here, I'm gonna go around, sneak on

675
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: top and you know, sneak up to that house and

676
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: take the sniper out. This guy is bad aim. And

677
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: also he's wasting like a ton of This guy's like yeah, yeah, yeah,

678
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: he's bullets. Is a very interesting part of that, like

679
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: the reality.

680
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 2: Of how this would happen, Like sure, Kathleen has this

681
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: petty vengeance kind of fueling her, and Perry seems to

682
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: have some kind of military training, but not everybody in

683
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: Kansas City, in this community would have that. Like she

684
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: knew the doctor. These are people they've known their whole lives,

685
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: and some people aren't going to be trained to be

686
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: a sniper. This man's just wasting the bullets he shooting. Honestly,

687
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: not gonna lie. I do believe that. I like Joel's idea,

688
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: and also it gets in this really great position of

689
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 2: like enacting one of the the really like intense parts

690
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: of the game.

691
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: But also I don't necessarily think Henry and Sam are wrong.

692
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: If they'd have just done the zig zag run, they

693
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: all could have probably gotten away and hide.

694
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: Behind the cars. But just to murder someone it's been

695
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: a while he does, and there's and also like there's

696
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: an important moment here where as Joel is leaving, Ellie's like, no,

697
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: don't do this, it's stupid, and he's like, do you

698
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: trust me? And she does.

699
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: There's like a moment, but then she nods and it's

700
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: just like there's something there and she.

701
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: Doesn't want him to go. She doesn't want to be alone,

702
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to not have Joel at her side.

703
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: It's it's a big moment. It was a big and

704
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: very very touching moment. You know, as you know from

705
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: playing the game, you gotta get that soup rifle acquire

706
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: as soon. I actually found it really.

707
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: Interesting because there's so much of this episode narratively, especially

708
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: with Sam and Henry, that's.

709
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: So directly taken from the game.

710
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: But then there's also quite a lot of diversion with

711
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 2: Kathleen and with Kansas City instead of Pittsburgh. And then

712
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 2: you end up in this situation where as soon as

713
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: they get to that street of cars, I was waiting

714
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 2: for the sniper because I knew I knew that Joel

715
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: was gonna and that's when my heart started to sink

716
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: because it meant I knew the way the episode was ending.

717
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: And but yeah, yeah, you've got to get in there.

718
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: And I love this because this this moment as well,

719
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: like you know, when Joel gets into the house, it

720
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: is just it's a really great telling character moment of

721
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: the kind of Joel that we have in this Joel

722
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: was tired in the game, but he's not really tired

723
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: emotionally or soulfully of killing people. That doesn't feel like

724
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: it's more just like, oh, this sucks. I wish I

725
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: didn't have to live in the zombie Apocalypse. But in

726
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: this moment when we see him and he sees that

727
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 2: there's this old man with bad aim, and he says

728
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: to him, he's like, just give me the gun and

729
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: stay in your position and just don't tell anyone that

730
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: I was here. And the guy turns to him and

731
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: Joel's like, don't try and shoot me.

732
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: Joel, doesn't that you want to kill someone in that moment,

733
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: I take it back. He actually is like he is heartbroken.

734
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to kill another person. This is an

735
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: old man. He's like, don't do it, my friend. He's like,

736
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 2: just don't do it.

737
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: Joel sneaks over as you mentioned, gets the drop in.

738
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: The old man gives him the opportunity. He's just like,

739
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: just give me the gun and sit in this room

740
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: for an hour. That's all you gotta do. Don't do

741
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: and then he the guy doesn't, so he kills him,

742
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: and then everything seems like it's gonna be great. But

743
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: then a radio cracks to life and you hear Kathleen's

744
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: voice and the guy called called it in, already called Kathleen.

745
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: He already called it away. And so Kathleen's forces are

746
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: they're like right here. So Joel yells out the window

747
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: of run. Kathleen has a convoy of trucks and then

748
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: the lead truck is like this garbage truck with like

749
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: a plow on the front, and it's just like pile

750
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: driving Rerex out of the way. We had this great

751
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: action sequence where Jull snipes the driver.

752
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: Just like you feel like you're just like you feel

753
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: like you're just in the game, and this time is

754
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: like there's more of Kathleen's people are coming and you're

755
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: just thinking, like when of the infect are gonna show up,

756
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 2: because that's the next people that you've got to snipe.

757
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: But this truck's just pile driving. There's this huge you

758
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: think Ellie's gonna get caught. She you know, she kind

759
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: of she has this moment where she falls over when

760
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: in front of the truck after Joel saves her and

761
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: you see someone grabbing her and you're like, oh no,

762
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: but it's Henry. Henry goes out of his way to

763
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: save her life and he pulls her behind the truck.

764
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 2: And I think in that moment when Joel sees Henry

765
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 2: do that, there's like a switch that flips.

766
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, okay, these I have to go all

767
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: out to save everyone. So the truck that was chasing

768
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: them blows up and crashes into the front of the house.

769
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: And as this is happening, all of Kathleen's people are

770
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: pouring out of their cars. There's like there's like one

771
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two hundred people out there, so many people,

772
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: this feels like it might be all of them.

773
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: Like it might be it feels like more of the

774
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: revolution and this is everyone like they're so consumed.

775
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: It's the it's the mob with the pitchforks. Yeah, and

776
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: they are angry. Kathleen calls to Henry. She's like, hey,

777
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: just like come out and let's just deal with this.

778
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't. He wants to some assurances that like Sam

779
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: and Ellie are gonna be fine, Like first of all,

780
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: Ellie's not involved in this, and second, well Sam's a kid,

781
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, no, we're gonna kill him. Sorry,

782
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: there's they're definitely dead. So that's not even on the table,

783
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: she tells them, and you realize, Okay, Kathleen is if

784
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: you needed any more, you know proof, You now know

785
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: that Kathleen is just way way away.

786
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: From she's unhinged, kind of Final Destination esque rant where

787
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: she's like, well, if kids die, kids diling, if Sam

788
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: was supposed to die, and this is you getting what

789
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: you'll come up and says, because you fucked around with fate,

790
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: she's death, the angel of death.

791
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: He has to, you know, kill Henry and avenge her brother.

792
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: Though it's not gonna make anything better or change anything

793
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 2: other than add two more notches to her her bloody belt.

794
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can really here get the sense that she

795
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: is fucking drunk on power. Yeah, or at least getting drunk,

796
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: because you know, when you start talking about fate and

797
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 1: you messed with fate and kids just you know, can die.

798
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: Who cares like they die all the time. That is

799
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: just too much. And I'm like, Joel, can you just

800
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: like shoot her right now? Like shooter he was?

801
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: I guess you kind of get these shots of him

802
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: looking and he's trying to like kind of work out

803
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: the lay of the land. Yeah, and like obviously if

804
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 2: he shoots out, maybe some people are gonna know where

805
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: this is. But there's this moment when so Henry steps

806
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 2: out because he's brave and he's like he tells Ellie

807
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: like you're gonna take Sam, You're gonna run, and he

808
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 2: steps out into the open, And I have to say,

809
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 2: this is why Melanielinsky deserved that, Emmy. This is why

810
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 2: she's so good in Yellow Jackets. Heavenly Creature is like

811
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 2: one of my favorite movies. But in this moment when

812
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: she looks at Sam with that gun, she looks upset,

813
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: like she looks sad in her eye that she is

814
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: gonna kill him.

815
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: But she's still gonna do it, but.

816
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: There is this moment there's like tears in her eye

817
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: and you can't tell if it's because she's like so

818
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: happy she's found him or she realizes that he is

819
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: just a scared kid with his hands up. But in

820
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: that moment, I was like, oh shit. I was like,

821
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: Joel's gonna sniper. He's gonna sniper before she can do it.

822
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: But no, but they fate came into play. The truck

823
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: that is on fire starts sinking into the ground, uh,

824
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: and it falls through a massive hole and everyone's looking

825
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: over it like oh, like oh fuck, and you hear

826
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: this roar of what you know can only be infected

827
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: and they come fucking pouring out of the hole and

828
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: it's everything. It's runners, clickers, it's clickers, mom, and.

829
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: Also clicker almost there's like this even more exasperated, like

830
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: even more like accentuated hive mind, Like they come out

831
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: of there like an explodeon. It's completely different to anything

832
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: we've seen before.

833
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 1: And it is so good and so scary.

834
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: If you've been waiting for that horror movie Resident Evil.

835
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: Living, this is it. You're this is like de spewing everywhere.

836
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: This is an episode.

837
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 2: It's all about like reflections, and we've been seeing that

838
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 2: since really episode three. But like, they do this really

839
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 2: interesting thing where we see the zombies killing all the people,

840
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: and it looks exactly the same as when they were

841
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: killing the FEDERA collaborators at the beginning, Like you have

842
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 2: you had people holding onto the Federal collaborators and cutting

843
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: their throats, and you have the zombies and they're the

844
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: infected and they're eating they're kind of on people's necks,

845
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: and it looks so similar, and it's just this horrible,

846
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: kind of horrendous orgy of violence. And it's really sad

847
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: because Ellie and Sam and Henry are hiding behind this

848
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: car together again and there is a great moment for

849
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: them to just run, but they're so shocked and so

850
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: scared that they don't really know.

851
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: What to do. Kathleen's people open up on these infected

852
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: and I just want to say that, first of all,

853
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: Kathleen's folks were kind of in a horseshoe pattern and

854
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: were clearly shooting each other, like there was a lot

855
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: of friendly fire happenings.

856
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: Again, it's not this is the thing they didn't plan this,

857
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 2: this was a this was driven by vengeance. They they

858
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: don't a lot of them don't have training. This was

859
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: a terrible idea. They shouldn't have all been there. Un

860
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: Lest we not forget, Kathleen knew that there were infected

861
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: under the ground. She knew that there was something wrong,

862
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: and she didn't say anything. And this is that the

863
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: tunnel vision that she had for Henry no pun no

864
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 2: no pun, nobody, and and uh, you know it led

865
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,479
Speaker 2: to this and oh, it is just this is such

866
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: a great action scene and it's so scary and frantic

867
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: and frenetic, and it just is just, oh, it was

868
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: just so effective. By the whole time, in the back

869
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: of my I've played the game, I know where this

870
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: episode's going, and.

871
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to see it. I do know it.

872
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: There's a there's a nice little sequence where Joel is

873
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: covering Ellie is like zig zagging through the streets, and

874
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: then you hear this bloated kind of burping roar. And

875
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: if you played the game, you know what's coming next.

876
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: It's a bloater, which is the most the rarest of

877
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: the super infected, because it takes many, many years for

878
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: an infected to develop into this a Bloater is basically

879
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: a tank on legs, heavily armored.

880
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: And all over it and it's punching people like and

881
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: killing them like it. This is a whole different kind

882
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: of thing. This is a nightmare monster.

883
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: There is a great I don't know if this is purposeful,

884
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: but I enjoyed it. So Perry is like, Kathleen, I'll

885
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: cover you, get out of here, and and he stays back. Meanwhile,

886
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: Ellie is, you know, zig zagging through the streets bodies

887
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: like and course, and of course Bella has been in

888
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: an a scene like this before the Battle of winter

889
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: Fell episode at the last season of Game of Thrones,

890
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: and she dies in that episode, torn apart by a

891
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: zombie giant, and Perry dies in the exact same way,

892
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 1: getting killed the giant bloat giant.

893
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: A lot of people were really excited to see the

894
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 2: blow as they were.

895
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: Like, well halfway through, like how often we seen it?

896
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: And they just delivered this thing is terrifying, Geary. It

897
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: looks it looks so scary.

898
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 2: But the funniest thing is even amidst all of that,

899
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 2: you are just like, where is Kathleen?

900
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: Where is Kathleen?

901
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: Because you just know that she is the most imminent

902
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: danger out of all of these things.

903
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: It's her.

904
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: She is the one who will kill Ellie and Henry

905
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: and Sammoth if anyone does so.

906
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: Ellie manages to escape from a little girl clicker, which

907
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: is one of the most horrific things I've seen in

908
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: this show.

909
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: Big, big contortionist style, like yeah, oh yeah, very very

910
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: much of like the conjuring, kind of feel the malignant,

911
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 2: the exorcism of Emily Rose, kind of like feeling your body,

912
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: whatever is inside your body possessing it, in this case,

913
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: the cordyceps mushroom. They don't understand how a body is

914
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: supposed to move, so they can't. And this is a

915
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 2: really great way that that's brought to life. And Ellie

916
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: is just like.

917
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: She's scared, but she doesn't. She's a survivor. Ellie manages

918
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: to get Henry and sam who are hiding under a

919
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: car to safety. You know, stabs a bunch of infection

920
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: and it's off. Oh we get to see it. It

921
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: was such a cool moment. And they're about to get

922
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: away when Kathleen gets to drop on them, and it

923
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: is a very very just moment when Kathleen, who moments

924
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: ago was saying, well maybe kids. Maybe she just like

925
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: kids die sometimes made kids that are sick deserve to

926
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: die because kids die every day. That the person who

927
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: said that is then killed by a child clicker infected

928
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: who leaps on her and just savages her.

929
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: It is everyone you can't stop watching it, And Joe

930
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: Ellie has also watching it because this is not like

931
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: the Bie.

932
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 1: This is these have.

933
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: Gone feral on the ground because she is just like

934
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: pummeling her face, like Melanielinsky, you were great, I'll miss you.

935
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: But Cathleen good, good heroes, Our heroes manage to get

936
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 1: out of there, and the infected as a whode turned

937
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: towards the city too. We can only imagine, you know,

938
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: rampage through the streets and kill everyone there. It's almost

939
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: biblical like this, this community, this city that is defined

940
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: by vengeance, by like bloodthirsty vengeance, is then like completely

941
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 1: wiped clean by this force of need. Sure, the Cortyceps,

942
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: like it's hard not to feel like they kind of

943
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: deserved it.

944
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: A really horrific thing, because I truly backed that they

945
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: should have overthrown Fedra And but I'm like, the question

946
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: is sadly because of the death of Kathleen's brother, they

947
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 2: didn't have anyone there to be like, well, now we've

948
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 2: done that, let's try and transform our situation and not

949
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: just end up in the same cycle that we were

950
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 2: in again.

951
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you said something I think that

952
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: was really that really resonated, which was how the violence

953
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: of the infected that they were, you know, that they

954
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: were utilizing against Kathleen's people really mirrored that night when

955
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: the resistance overthrew feder And you're absolutely right, And I

956
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: think what you know, we've been talking all series about

957
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: how like what's one of the core themes of any

958
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: zombie shows, like the people are the real enemy, the

959
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: real danger, and what's even as right is that it is.

960
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: What really shook me about that opening scene was like,

961
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: it's not just that the first of all, the infected

962
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: are doing what they're doing because that's what's in their

963
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: nature to do. There's no malice, Yeah, they're just they're

964
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 1: just a force of nature. But the way that the

965
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: Kathleen's people were going about, like this execution and torture

966
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: of people where they're like stripping them of their clothes,

967
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: like you know, there's an element of I'm not just

968
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: killing you. I want to humiliate you and rub your

969
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: face in it before you die. I want to make

970
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: it as painful and as terrible as possible. It's true,

971
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: it was truly, truly horrifying, and it's like, weirdly, then again,

972
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: we've said it all serious. It's worse than what the

973
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: effect did do in a in a very real way,

974
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: and it.

975
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 2: Highlights again I love that thing you brought up about

976
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: the nature of the infected, that idea of who gets

977
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: to choose who lives and dies, the notion of course

978
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 2: the effected are are running rampant, killing everyone. You want

979
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 2: to kill them so you can survive. But there are

980
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: bigger questions afoot here of is this evolution? Is this

981
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: the next stage?

982
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: Is this something?

983
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: And how do humans behave when they then are not

984
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 2: at the top of the food chain and suddenly it's

985
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 2: like they don't just turn on the things that are

986
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: above them, they turn on themselves and it kind of

987
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: exasperates the worst. This is definitely one of the bleaker

988
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: episodes of the season because it's really about like it's

989
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: about the horrors that we commit to ourselves and also

990
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,720
Speaker 2: about I think the really sad thing about Kathleen's brother's

991
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: death is like, there's something so powerful. I think a

992
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: lot of us are in a space where we think

993
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: about this a lot now, about like forgiveness and like

994
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: what that means, and whether it comes to the idea

995
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: of like prison abolition or or forgiving somebody who has

996
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: done you wrong in your personal life. Forgiveness can be

997
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: like extremely powerful when it's put into play in a

998
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: way that is like gonna make a change. It's not

999
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: a forgiveness and you let somebody fuck you over again.

1000
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 2: It's a forgiveness that makes everything better for everyone involved.

1001
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: And if Kathleen's brother had survived, there is a chance

1002
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: that they could have built a different kinds of city.

1003
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 2: And I think that that threat of forgiveness is so

1004
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: key because as we see, it's also about like forgiving

1005
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 2: yourself something that Henry never did before. And Henry still

1006
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 2: does not have the ability to do any most needs to.

1007
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 2: And well, it's just it's a really bleak episode, but

1008
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 2: I understand the gut punch storytelling that they're going for.

1009
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: So our friends get across the river and they're posted

1010
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: up in an old motel, Joel and Henry still like

1011
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: kai on adrenaline are bonding. Elli and Sam are bonding

1012
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: in the other room. They're reading the Savage Starlight comic. Joel,

1013
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: you know what a change we've seen in him, invites

1014
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 1: Henry and Sam to accompany them to Wyomi. He says, yeah,

1015
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: you can come with us. We're going on foot, but

1016
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 1: you can come with us. Elli and Sam meanwhile reading

1017
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: the comic, and he asks her have you ever been scared?

1018
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: And she's like yeah, like I'm terrified all the time.

1019
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: I'm scared all the time. Uh, what about you? And

1020
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: then Sam asks an absolutely crushing question, which is if

1021
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: you turn into a monster, is it still you inside?

1022
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: And then he shows her as those who played the

1023
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: game were expecting that he has been bitten. I want

1024
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: to stop here and say that you got to do

1025
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: bite checks you encounter infected. I feel like, like like

1026
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: after bed, I feel like if anybody's going to bed

1027
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: or anything, you get to a safe space check for bites.

1028
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: Let's just do that right now, because maybe you didn't

1029
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: feel it because of the adrenaline. Let's let's make sure.

1030
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: We do that and you can have a conversation like

1031
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: is this what are we going to Shall we see

1032
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: how I will say, I love I was really I

1033
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: wanted Sam and Henry to have a different fate than

1034
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: they did in the game. But I understand that's one

1035
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 2: of the most affecting parts of the game. It's very

1036
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 2: affecting it. But they make little choices in the way

1037
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: that they tell the story that I love because in

1038
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: the game, Sam and Ellie kind of like Ellie gives

1039
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: him a toy and Sam kind of like throws a

1040
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 2: toy on the floor and Ellie leaves, and in the

1041
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: morning he's just he's transformed. And here him and Ellie.

1042
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: He gets to share that fear with someone, and Ellie

1043
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: gets to reassure him, and she and.

1044
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: You see the goodness the le the inherent goodness of Ellie,

1045
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: which is I have this immunity, first of all, showing

1046
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: her his bite as a way to hope, you know,

1047
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: do the thing that Henry's been trying to do this

1048
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: whole time, which is give him hope, give him look,

1049
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: give him strength. And she says, you know, my blood's medicine,

1050
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: and she cuts her palm open and starts rubbing the

1051
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: blood into the wound. This really almost primal, you know,

1052
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: kind of attempt to heal him. And of course, man,

1053
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: I wanted it to work. So I wanted it to work.

1054
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be that you wanted to work.

1055
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: And I also want to give them so much credit

1056
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: in this.

1057
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: So Cavon, who plays Sam, is a deaf actor, and

1058
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: I love the way that throughout this episode we have

1059
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: Sam teaching Ellie some signs, like they sign the title

1060
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: of the episode, that Ellie's making an effort to communicate.

1061
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: And the other way that Sam communicates is through like

1062
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 2: a one of those irasable like kids boards, And it's

1063
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 2: like hard to put into context how emotional and affecting it.

1064
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: Is for these two people, these two kids.

1065
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 2: They're trying to communicate the most urgent thing he's asking

1066
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: her about these fears, this existential idea of like will

1067
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: I still be inside the zombie?

1068
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: And Ellie's like scrawling like my blood is medicine.

1069
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: Like just the way that they decided to communicate this,

1070
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: it just added a whole other layer of.

1071
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: Just emotion for me. And so yeah, and also the

1072
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: importance of like kids having their own community. You know,

1073
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: there is something so special about like they keep this secret,

1074
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: and of course they can only keep it till morning,

1075
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: but they don't there's no Joel, there's no Henry. Come see,

1076
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: it's just like okay.

1077
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: He sleeps on the bed next to him like she

1078
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: wants him to know that she believes that this is

1079
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 2: gonna watch.

1080
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: But in the morning he's sitting on the edge of

1081
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: the bed and she goes and looks at him, and

1082
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: he's infected. He attacks her. Henry draws his gun to

1083
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: stop Joel from doing anything. He fires his gun at

1084
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: Joel's feet, saying, don't do it, don't you know, don't

1085
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,479
Speaker 1: attack Sam. But Sam is you know, really threatening ally now,

1086
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: And Henry almost without thinking, almost instinctively shoots Sam and

1087
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: kills him. And he's inconsolable. He can't believe what he's done.

1088
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: He can't come to grips with it, and he turns

1089
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: a gun on himself and he kills himself. Later, Joel

1090
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: and Ellie bury the brothers, and Ellie places that scratch

1091
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: pad that she used to communicate with with Sam on

1092
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: his grave and it says I'm sorry on it, And

1093
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: then a measure of how Ellie has changed in this

1094
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, a few days of this journey that have occurred.

1095
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 1: She is just like a hardened person now She's just like, Okay,

1096
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: which way are we going? Yeah? Which way She's she's

1097
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: taking in that. I'm sorry.

1098
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: Like that's when she lays down the board, is almost

1099
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 2: like her saying goodbye to that like hopeful child who

1100
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: thought she could heal him, and now she's Joel. Which

1101
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 2: way's west? She doesn't want to hear it, she doesn't.

1102
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: They've buried their friends. They felt like they were building

1103
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: this family, and yeah, I mean this is this is

1104
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: one of the most absolute gut punch like moments of

1105
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 2: the game because you spend so much time with Sam

1106
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 2: and Henry and you really in the game in different ways.

1107
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: But there's like this conversation that Sam and that Henry

1108
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 2: anna Joel have about motorbike and motorcycles, and Joel's telling

1109
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: him the feeling of riding a Harley, and there's this

1110
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: kind of human connection that Joel makes there that you

1111
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 2: assume will have to extend further than where it does,

1112
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: because then you know, the next morning, this whole kind

1113
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: of terrible thing plays out. Yeah, just so sad, and

1114
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 2: I was I was really bummed to see it go

1115
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 2: this way, but I understand.

1116
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: Like it was. It's truly great television.

1117
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 2: This episode, and I think it's going to leave a

1118
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: lot of people really heartbroken.

1119
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: It felt. You know, this is an action episode, obviously

1120
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: with high drama, but it really makes you think, Like

1121
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: it really had me thinking about like revenge and how

1122
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: it's one of the most primal like feelings someone can have,

1123
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: as I've been wronged, people I love have been wronged,

1124
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: and I want to do something about it, and you can.

1125
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: You know, there's a way to think about Revenge is

1126
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: almost like the stone on which like rules and laws

1127
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: and justice can be built, because it's that understanding that

1128
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: people will take revenge on you if you wrong them

1129
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: that creates the impetus to create these rules so that

1130
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, people can live in a kind of ordered

1131
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: and peaceful society. But when you just give yourself over

1132
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: to this feeling that is righteous. You know you've been wronged,

1133
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: and to defend yourself against the wrong, especially when that

1134
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: goes on for years, is righteous. But when it turns

1135
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: into just like wanton killing, when you can't step back

1136
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: for and say, let's talk, let's figure out who actually

1137
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: did the worst shit?

1138
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah about the system for Yeah, for Kathleen Federer is

1139
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: almost irrelevant compared to the personal vendor as she has

1140
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:55,479
Speaker 2: against Tennis.

1141
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: That's what it is.

1142
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: And she actually says to Henry, she straight up says

1143
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 2: to him, She's like, I know why you did it.

1144
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't care. He should have died. I mean,

1145
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: I think something point that is really scary.

1146
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: About this episode two that kind of contradicts our expectations.

1147
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 2: And this is probably a good setup for if you

1148
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: found this episode hard to watch or felt like it

1149
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: took a strange turn narratively that left you shocked, this

1150
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 2: is preparing you for where we're going this season for sure.

1151
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 2: Because something that I think that is really harsh and

1152
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 2: kind of hard to stomach but real about this is

1153
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: Kathleen does kill Henry in the end like this, if

1154
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 2: she hadn't have had this vengeful quest, if she hadn't

1155
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 2: have taken two hundred people there, if they hadn't have

1156
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: taken the snowplow, Sam would have never got bitten, they

1157
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: would have been able to leave. And in that way,

1158
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: she actually creates this self fulfilling prophecy of that fate

1159
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 2: still coming true, and I think true. I think in

1160
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: that moment at the end, when Henry is so inconsolable,

1161
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: I actually found it to fit.

1162
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: I feel like.

1163
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 2: It's more in In the game, it feels so shocking,

1164
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 2: and here I feel like it's still as shocking and horrendous,

1165
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: but there's a lot more weight to the burden that

1166
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: he carries because he is essentially torn apart this community

1167
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 2: and this betrayed this man that he respected, who he

1168
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 2: clearly had love for in order to save Sam, and

1169
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: the end, he still couldn't save him. And I think

1170
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 2: that is just like.

1171
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: Heart it's heartbreaking. I mean, by that same token, Kathleen

1172
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: inherited this movement that her brother built and effectively destroyed it. Yeah,

1173
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: because she didn't see it for years. Yeah, she didn't

1174
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: care about the movement. She didn't care about building a

1175
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: better world for the people that follow her brother's miss

1176
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: She didn't care about me, She didn't care about She

1177
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: didn't care about like fulfilling the thing, the goals and

1178
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: the mission that all those people like believed in. All

1179
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: she cared about was taking revenge on the person that

1180
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: she felt was responsible for hurting her and her brother

1181
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: and and providing a vehicle for the bloodlust of her followers.

1182
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: Like in a in a really in a very real way,

1183
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: I think A part of the reason why the resistance

1184
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: decided to follow Kathleen was that the thing that her

1185
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: brother didn't give his followers was an excuse to Jaquille. Yes,

1186
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: and she let them do it.

1187
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 2: You know.

1188
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: It's like it's like, yeah, she was the one who

1189
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: did the overthrowing, but.

1190
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 2: It it's it's really what that means is like she

1191
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: gave them that space.

1192
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: You made it okay, you your example said we can

1193
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: go out there and hang people in the street, strip

1194
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: them nude, and drag them from the backs of cabbage, stabbed,

1195
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: covered in knife covered in knife stabs, throat slit, tortured

1196
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: to death, set on fire, and you give us cover

1197
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: that that's fine, that's righteous, and that's good and we

1198
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: can do that. It was really really chilling, really chilling

1199
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: and impactful episode. Wow. RP. Salmon, Henry, I love the breaking. Yeah,

1200
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right. This is going to get harder

1201
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: before it gets easier. If it does ever get easier,

1202
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: it's never going to be easier. It's never up next

1203
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: nerd Out.

1204
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you

1205
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: love and why, or like today, a theory that you

1206
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 2: are excited to share with us.

1207
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: Which obviously we love both. But you know I'm a

1208
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: theory lover.

1209
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 2: Reid explains, Now this is really interesting because you know

1210
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm a big one about oh, the comics seed things

1211
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 2: to go in the movies. Reid has spotted an interesting

1212
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 2: pan that you cannot deny. So here he's going to

1213
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: explain my video games maybe another important source of how

1214
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 2: marvelous seeding things for the MCU.

1215
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: Jason take it away. Okay, here it goes Read writes.

1216
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of the video games we've seen from

1217
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: Marvel over the last five years, and how many of

1218
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: the characters who appeared in those games later appeared or

1219
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: were reintroduced in the MCU. The Spider Man video game

1220
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: introduced task Master and Lyles Morales. The Avengers video game

1221
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: seated Abomination, task Master, Modoc, and Kate Bishop, all of

1222
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: whom appeared or will appear in the MCU. Shortly, The

1223
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy video seated Adam Warlock. The Midnight

1224
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: Sun's video game is likely seeding Blade, a new generation's

1225
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: Ghostwriter and Magic Magic with a K. And there's an

1226
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 1: upcoming Wolverine video game not a surprise at this point,

1227
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: but the X Men are coming to the big screen.

1228
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: Based on the video game trend, My big takeaway paying

1229
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 1: close attention to which characters appear in the Marvel video

1230
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: games seems to generally point you in the direction the

1231
01:08:56,360 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: MCU is going. I think that this is right. The

1232
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: facts are there. I'm like, it's just deniable. When you

1233
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: read it, you're just like, yeah, I think the fairs

1234
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: are there. And I think, you know, we've seen this

1235
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: in other places, the toys with Lego, you know. I

1236
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 1: think that this is a outgrowth of corporate some form

1237
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: of corporate brand sitnergy. And I think that reader is

1238
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: absolutely right. This is how we can tell. They want

1239
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: a broad direction of where the MCUs. They want people.

1240
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 2: They want as many people as possible to know these characters,

1241
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 2: so when the trailers come out and the merchandise comes out,

1242
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: people are excited to see them. They want every movie

1243
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: to feel like No Way Home or Multiverse of Madness,

1244
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 2: where those trailers were getting people excited. And if you

1245
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 2: want people to be excited, they need to know who

1246
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 2: the characters are.

1247
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 1: And not everyone is out here reading Jim Starlin comics.

1248
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 2: Knowing who Adam Warlock is though, you should because like

1249
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 2: Adam Willock, anything but like introducing him in a very

1250
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 2: popular video game great because when God Ins the Galaxy

1251
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 2: Volume three comes out, people are going to recognize him.

1252
01:09:58,280 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: It's very smart.

1253
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 2: I think that Taskmaster one is what really sold me

1254
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: because yeah, me too. That is like a very much

1255
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 2: like you know them or you don't know them character.

1256
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, semester is definitely not like it's a I

1257
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: guess I would just say there are many villains that

1258
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: you think would be introduced before task Master. I totally agree.

1259
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: So the fact that test Master appeared in the video

1260
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: games and then in the movies feels very notable to

1261
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: me as well. Yeah, thank you read.

1262
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 2: If you have theories or passions, which we know you do,

1263
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 2: but if you want to share them with us, hit

1264
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: us up at x ray at cricket dot com.

1265
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: Instructions are in the show notes. As always, that's it

1266
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: for our show today, Rosie pluglukluk plug plug plug plup

1267
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: plug Plug.

1268
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 2: I will have a cool more cool last of US

1269
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 2: coverage coming out at IGN. I wrote a fun piece

1270
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 2: at Primetimer about the Harlequin animated Valentine's Day special which

1271
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 2: is coming out this week.

1272
01:10:58,400 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: It's really really good.

1273
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 2: I reviewed it there it's very saucy and raunchy, so

1274
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 2: if you like from the comedy.

1275
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: You'll probably love it. Obviously, ant Man's coming out, so

1276
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: you know that's I'm gonna be all over that.

1277
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 2: We're gonna be talking about it, And as usual, we

1278
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 2: can find me here twice a week and at Rosie

1279
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: Marks on Instagram and.

1280
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: Letable catch the next episode Wednesday, February fifteenth, where we'll

1281
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 1: be talking about everything you're gonna see over the course

1282
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: of Super Bowl Sunday, all those trailers, plus a primer

1283
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: on ant Man, head of ant Man and the Waspontomania,

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01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: and of course remember two episodes a week every Wednesday

1285
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,719
Speaker 1: and Friday. In your ear noggins twice, the Deep Dives twice,

1286
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 1: the Everything Wednesday and Friday. Yes, and if you.

1287
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 2: Want to hear us other places or see us other places,

1288
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:45,759
Speaker 2: subscribe on YouTube.

1289
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: You can now watch four episodes of the show.

1290
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes we're on Zoom, sometimes we are together irl Shocking.

1291
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: Plus follow at XRV pod on Twitter.

1292
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 2: Where you can see us retweeting cal stuff and interact

1293
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 2: with our rad social media masters. And check out the

1294
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 2: discord to meet and hang out with a ton of

1295
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: amazing fans and listeners plus Jason and I and that

1296
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: Discord would not exist without Heidi, who is our amazing

1297
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 2: moderator who also hooked up and a way for us

1298
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 2: to do really rad giveaways. And Jason is about to

1299
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 2: announce the winner of our first have a giveaway.

1300
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: Speaking of that again, Shasta Heidi for creating the bot

1301
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: that allowed us to randomly select the winner of the

1302
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: Last of Us Activation Pack, which includes a car Heart

1303
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: backpack and a car Heart jacket and a bunch of

1304
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: cool branded stuff within there. Drum roll please, the winner

1305
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: of the Last of Us Activation Pack is Discord member Nate.

1306
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: Shout out Nate, Congratulations emails on the way, and that

1307
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: pack will be heading to you next week. We'll be

1308
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 1: doing more giveaways like that, So if you're looking for

1309
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 1: a place to find a community and we'd like to

1310
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: join the Discord. On top of the fact that there's

1311
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: really great people there and we're there and the conversations

1312
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 1: are super fun and really informative, you get to you

1313
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 1: get to win stuff. We be doing more of these

1314
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: cool stuff. Five star reviews, five star ratings. We need them,

1315
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: we gotta have them, we love them. Here's one from

1316
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: so very Kind designs. Love this show so excited. We

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01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: have two episodes week. Love all of Rosie's comic knowledge.

1318
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, blushing, blushing, blushing yeah.

1319
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: Five star reves. We love them. Give them five star reviews.

1320
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: The more cool, weird comic book knowledge we will dig up.

1321
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 1: See you next time. My x ray Vision is a

1322
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord

1323
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: and Soul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself

1324
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: and Sandy's Rhard Are editing and sound design. Who's by

1325
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: Facilli's Photopoulos. Dylon Villanueva and Matt de Group provide video

1326
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: production support. Alex Reller for handles social media. Thank you

1327
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 1: Brian Vasquez for theme music. See you next time. Bye bye,

1328
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: mm hmm