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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, Welcome back to the latest episode of

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci, and

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Speaker 1: Joe Madden. Joe, are you a big fan of Jeopardy

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Speaker 1: by any chance?

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Speaker 2: What is? Yeah? I guess I am a big fan

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Speaker 2: of Shepherd. How could you not be a big fan

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Speaker 2: of Jeopardy? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know how they have this once in a while

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Speaker 1: category called pot Pourrie.

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Speaker 3: Sure, it's kind of like a catch all.

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Speaker 1: By the way, potpourri is French for rotten pot. I

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Speaker 1: never knew that before. That's a Jeopardy answer for you

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Speaker 1: as well. Pop Pourri originally was a rotten pot or yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a stew. You just throw a bunch of

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Speaker 1: If you throw a bunch of mixed meats and a

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Speaker 1: pot and it's a stew, that's a pope pourrie. And

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Speaker 1: now it's a Jeopardy category. So we've got kind of

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Speaker 1: a pope pourri today. All right, going to have different categories.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about our categories, the Commission, start

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Speaker 1: me Up, the Slump, and supergroups.

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Speaker 3: It's all coming up today. But we're going to start

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Speaker 3: with Hinchliff.

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Speaker 1: You and I were at the reopening of beautiful Hinchlift

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Speaker 1: Stadium in Paterson, New Jersey, one of two surviving Negro

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Speaker 1: League ballparks. We were there for the dedication on Friday.

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Speaker 1: It was quite the event. By the way, Rick wid

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Speaker 1: Field in Alabama is the only other surviving ballpark where

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Speaker 1: Negro League baseball was played. So Hinchcliffe had been shuttered

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Speaker 1: for almost three decades and now there will be professional

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Speaker 1: baseball there the New Jersey Jackals, an independent minor league

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Speaker 1: team for the first time since nineteen fifty. And what's

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Speaker 1: most cool of all is all these kids. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: talking to school kids travel ball. Kids can play football

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Speaker 1: baseball on the same field where Negro League stars played.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Josh Gibson, Oscar Charlton Cool, Papa Bell,

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Speaker 1: Larry Dobie, and by the way, on that same field

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Speaker 1: because they played other sports as well. Jim Thorpe played there,

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Speaker 1: Vince Lombardi played there, Babe Ruth attended boxing matches there.

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Speaker 1: The history there is unbelievable. So, Joe, I'm curious what

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Speaker 1: your take was being there at the event, being inside

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Speaker 1: the beautiful walls of Hincheliffe stadium.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was phenomenal. That's a really great intro to

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. Again, it's one of those realistic moments

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Speaker 2: for me. As we were standing on the field there,

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Speaker 2: there was a bunch of dignitaries on the field, a

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Speaker 2: lot of politicians how to speak, and then of course

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Speaker 2: fans in the stands. But I mean it was kind

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Speaker 2: of like a blustery, cool but not cold day, whereas

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Speaker 2: it wasn't just sunny, but there's a bunch of clouds

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Speaker 2: behind the ballpark there as we were facing towards school

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Speaker 2: number five, right, public school number five. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 2: look at it and it could have been any year.

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Speaker 2: It could have been any year. We were standing there

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Speaker 2: listening to all this, listen to the different people talk

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Speaker 2: about the rededication. Everybody was so thrilled about it. It

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Speaker 2: was a big It was a very large buzz throughout

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Speaker 2: the city as it tested by the traffic champ just

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Speaker 2: trying to get into the place. So it was for me,

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Speaker 2: it was one of those moments that I won't forget.

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Speaker 2: I did take a mental snapshot and a lot of

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Speaker 2: that is not lost. I mean, the people that had

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Speaker 2: walked on that field before all that stuff pretty spectacular,

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Speaker 2: and the mayor Andre did a wonderful job, and Greg

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Speaker 2: his assistant, really he helped us a lot. But it

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Speaker 2: was really all of that. I mean, it was a

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Speaker 2: great take in for us, and I'm really happy that

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Speaker 2: we had a chance in the time to get there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned that the school there, and you

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Speaker 1: just think about for the last twenty five to thirty years,

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Speaker 1: if you were going to school there, you're looking out

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Speaker 1: the window, you are looking at literally urban decay. The

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Speaker 1: ballpark was falling apart, graffiti strewn, you had trees of

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Speaker 1: weeds growing out through the stands, and the turf on

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Speaker 1: the field just a complete I sore. And now they're

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Speaker 1: looking out there and it's something you can dream on.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you have to dream on being a

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Speaker 1: professional baseball player, but dreaming about opportunity. And that's to me,

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Speaker 1: what that ballpark is about, Joe, is about opportunity, the

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Speaker 1: chance to whether it's concerts, baseball, football, boxing, you name it,

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Speaker 1: that now should be and I think will be a

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Speaker 1: real source of cific pride, a place for community to

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Speaker 1: gather and what's better than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be inspiring to the kids looking

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Speaker 2: out the windows, because that's what we do as kids

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Speaker 2: in school. We look out windows, right and they're going

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Speaker 2: to be looking out there. And your description is right on.

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Speaker 2: I mean what they've done to with the turf all

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Speaker 2: over the field actually a track that surrounds it that

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Speaker 2: they I guess unzip the turf on one side to

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Speaker 2: complete the the oval with the with the track itself,

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Speaker 2: the scoreboards and center field. I like the signage, the

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Speaker 2: Hinchlife Staium, and of course the extension to the Negro

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Speaker 2: League Museum, I guess in right field that I went

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Speaker 2: to afterwards, like a little reception spectacular all of it,

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Speaker 2: and then the view out the back window there to

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Speaker 2: the falls itself, and even Mayor Anti was Mayor Andrea.

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Speaker 2: Somebody pointed out to me, there's a there's one more

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Speaker 2: chimney stack setting up right there in the middle. It's

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Speaker 2: the old cold forty five factory that had been setting

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Speaker 2: there how many years ago, but it's the chimney stack

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Speaker 2: still exists right there right in the middle. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty yards two undred yards from the

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Speaker 2: from that particular building. So everything about it really it

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Speaker 2: has a tremendous combination of old and new right now.

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Speaker 2: But I love like what the Art Deco component of

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Speaker 2: the Hinchlift Stadium tremendously done in the first place and

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Speaker 2: beautifully restored.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the fact that there is a museum

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Speaker 1: component to that. Because you and I were there and

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Speaker 1: we know about the history. You could feel the ghosts, really,

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Speaker 1: you really could, because the exterior really hasn't changed much

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Speaker 1: at all. As you mentioned the art art Deco descor

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Speaker 1: to it. It's just a really fabulous, cool place. But

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Speaker 1: the stories will be told. I'm sure they'll be told

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Speaker 1: so well at that museum there about the stadium, about

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Speaker 1: the Negro leagues, and a story that it's such an

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Speaker 1: integral part of American opportunity and history that it's so

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Speaker 1: cool that generations now will get to tangibly feel and

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Speaker 1: see that history and not just read about it in

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Speaker 1: a book. And for me, Joe, I got to throw

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Speaker 1: this in there. It's a little bit of personal history

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Speaker 1: for me. First time I was back there since playing

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Speaker 1: high school football, a high school football game there in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. Believe me, when I played there, it

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Speaker 1: was starting to decay, but it was like being inside

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Speaker 1: an old mansion where you could you could feel the

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Speaker 1: history even if you knew it wasn't you know, up

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Speaker 1: to standards in terms of, you know, the maintenance of it.

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Speaker 1: But boy, you could just and I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: the whole history, but you knew it was around for

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Speaker 1: a while, and you knew, you knew there were ghosts there.

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Speaker 3: It was really cool.

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Speaker 2: And I got to see exactly where you flanked out

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Speaker 2: to the left facing that I don't know if that's

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Speaker 2: north southeast or west end zone. I think he was

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Speaker 2: running a fly pattern, catching it in shride and spiking

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Speaker 2: the ball in the end zone and having your coach.

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Speaker 2: I'll at you for doing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well said, all right, we're gonna move on to

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Speaker 1: our next category here. And you know, we lost a

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Speaker 1: great joe, a great baseball writer. And Rick Hummel Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis Post Dispatch. They called him the commission Now. It

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Speaker 1: started out he was the commissioner of kind of a

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Speaker 1: football fantasy league, but he became known as the commission

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Speaker 1: around baseball because he just was around baseball all the

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Speaker 1: time and knew everything about it. One of the real

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Speaker 1: gentlemen around the game, synonymous with covering Cardinals baseball through

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Speaker 1: managers like Whitey Herzog, Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, you name it.

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Speaker 1: He was there for so much. His chronicled it so well.

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Speaker 1: He had just retired after last season, seventy seven years old,

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Speaker 1: had a quick illness, died in his sleep over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: But it's a big loss for the baseball community, especially

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Speaker 1: in Saint Louis, where you know how popular that team

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Speaker 1: is and what it means to the city of Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: And you just think about generations who grew up and

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Speaker 1: their connection to the Cardinals was in many ways reading

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Speaker 1: what Rick Hummel had to say covering that team. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Joe you cross paths with Rick on your

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Speaker 1: trips through Saint Louis or the Cardinals coming to Chicago.

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Speaker 1: It's a reminder of how important I think baseball writers

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Speaker 1: can be, especially those who have such a long and

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Speaker 1: distinguished career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, gentlemen, absolute gentlemen. Always treated me well, properly, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean it is it's the sports writer, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not. It's not viewed in the same with the

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Speaker 2: same reverence maybe that it had been in the past

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Speaker 2: because of the way news is distributed today via this

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Speaker 2: iPad that I'm utilizing right now, and you don't have

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Speaker 2: as many calumnists and really fine writers in each particular

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Speaker 2: city that can dissect something in a real in a

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Speaker 2: way that I thought was I think, maybe you know,

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Speaker 2: tasty to both sides. Somebody that really was there on

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Speaker 2: a more consistent basis and didn't just show up on occasion.

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Speaker 2: Guys that were really fully entrenched in their craft and

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Speaker 2: the team and the group and the team and the

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Speaker 2: teams that were coming through. So yeah, you always treated

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Speaker 2: me really, really well, and you talked about the you know,

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Speaker 2: the managers that had been there before Whitey and I

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Speaker 2: Whitey's one of another one of the great influential managers

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Speaker 2: in my particular existence because I was there with the

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Speaker 2: Angels when he just came in the door for a

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Speaker 2: brief period of time, and the history of the team.

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Speaker 2: I was a fan in nineteen sixty four, when then

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Speaker 2: when the World Series was the first year I as

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Speaker 2: a Cardinal fan. So, whether it's the Sporting News, Eric whatever,

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Speaker 2: it's it's there's always been this wonderful group of writers there,

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Speaker 2: and it is it's different the Cardinals, the Saint Louis

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Speaker 2: fan base, they are different they are traditionally based. They've

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Speaker 2: had a great run for so many years back to

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Speaker 2: mister Ricky, and so, yeah, it's a tough one right there.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was such a quick illness like that,

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Speaker 2: and that's tough to hear after just retiring. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: he'll be sadly missed. But he was really a gentleman,

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Speaker 2: the best way I could describe it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well said.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Rick was very involved with the Baseball Writers Association.

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Speaker 1: He was a president for a while, and the Post

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Speaker 1: Dispatch started to fund a scholarship in his name over

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Speaker 1: the years where they would have internships and the interns

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Speaker 1: would come out and work with Rick actually through summer internships.

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Speaker 3: And I wanted to share some of his rules, sort

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Speaker 3: of rules.

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Speaker 1: They're not literally rules, but let's call them guideposts to

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Speaker 1: pass along his knowledge and everything he's learned to the

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Speaker 1: younger general.

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Speaker 3: So he had some rules. Again, I'm using that loosely.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there wasn't a fine or anything involved.

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Speaker 2: I used them loosely also, so I get it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, number one show up beyond time, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you had that rules as a manager, right, Joe. It's

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Speaker 1: the simplest thing you can do right, watch and listen closely,

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Speaker 1: tell the story, don't be it, dress better, tweet less,

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Speaker 1: and never forget to have fun.

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Speaker 3: But you can't go wrong with those.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to think I could have written that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's right on the money right there. That's a simple

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Speaker 2: mantra to follow. But five lines, whatever that was. And

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Speaker 2: if we all did that on a daily basis, you

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Speaker 2: know what people would like to speak with you, people

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Speaker 2: want to be around you. You're going to make a

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Speaker 2: positive impact. Whatever you put out there, it comes back

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Speaker 2: to you. It's all encapsulated and what you just said,

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Speaker 2: those simple rules, it's outstanding. And again we well most

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Speaker 2: of us need to ad here to that more on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis because it's that simple and it's that good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think especially younger writers need to be

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Speaker 1: told tweet less. Not that there's anything wrong with tweeting,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's sort of like going around in

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Speaker 1: life when you see people using their phones for selfies,

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Speaker 1: or they're at some beautiful place or someplace in nature

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Speaker 1: and they're viewing it through their phones and not through

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Speaker 1: their own experience. And I feel that way people covering baseball,

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Speaker 1: that they're not really watching. And as Yogi would say,

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Speaker 1: you can learn a lot by observing or watching. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's well said. It's very short,

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Speaker 1: it's sweet, tweet less. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong

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Speaker 1: with it, but make sure that you soak up the experience.

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Speaker 1: You learn so much that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I just when it comes to tweeting,

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Speaker 2: and you know, writers during a game, I would hope

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Speaker 2: that they're doing it in between innings and not actually

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Speaker 2: as action is occurring. When you put your head down,

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Speaker 2: you lose the game. I mean, I even in a dugout.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I want to write something down. But if

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Speaker 2: I don't wait for breaking the action and I to

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Speaker 2: write something and all of a sudden I look up

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Speaker 2: and I missed. I get so angry with myself if

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Speaker 2: I miss something like, for instance, of they started a

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Speaker 2: runner and I had been worried we're looking at something

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Speaker 2: else that was really not pertinent, and I missed the

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Speaker 2: sign from the third base coach as an example, I

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Speaker 2: would I'd get upset with myself. So yeah, it's okay

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Speaker 2: to tweet. I guess you know it's there and it

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Speaker 2: has a positive purpose. But when you're doing something like that,

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Speaker 2: when you're writing the story of the game, you got

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Speaker 2: to watch the game, and you got to analyze the

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Speaker 2: game according to what you are seeing, what you believe

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Speaker 2: is the right things that do not to be influenced

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Speaker 2: by somebody sitting in home somewhere trying to tell you

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Speaker 2: how to think in regards to what you're seeing in

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Speaker 2: this baseball game. I'm always concerned about that a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I like the writer that just sits there and gives

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Speaker 2: me his solid opinion and not somebody else's.

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Speaker 1: Joe, speaking of opinions, I can't wait to get your

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Speaker 1: opinion on this next category called start me Up, the

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Speaker 1: state of starting pitching in Major League Baseball these days.

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Speaker 3: In one word, it stinks. We'll be back right.

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Speaker 2: After this Start me Up the Stones Man.

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Speaker 3: Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, starting pitching, Man, We've been traveling downhill.

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Speaker 3: For the last decade, Joe. You've seen it happen.

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Speaker 1: Looking at the numbers, this is only the third season

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Speaker 1: ever where the winning percentage of starting pitchers is this

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Speaker 1: low and the era is this high, and those other

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Speaker 1: years we're twenty nineteen and twenty twenty. We're asking starters

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Speaker 1: to do less. We're throwing fewer innings, they're pitching less often,

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Speaker 1: they're getting hurt more, and they're winning less. Ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: starting pitchers accounted for seventy percent of the wins in

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Speaker 1: a baseball season. We're down to fifty nine percent now,

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Speaker 1: and another ten years the average number of pitches from

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Speaker 1: a starter has gone from ninety seven to eighty six.

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Speaker 1: Here's something that's amazing to me. We've already used two

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty two starting pitchers in a quarter of

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Speaker 1: a season this year. That's more than entire seasons from

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh one to nineteen seventy four. And there are

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Speaker 1: more starting pitchers on the IL so far this year.

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Speaker 1: Again we haven't played a third of the season. There

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Speaker 1: are more starting pitchers on the IL than we're on

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Speaker 1: for the entire season in twenty sixteen. That's only seven

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Speaker 1: years ago, folks. So workloads dropping injuries are going up.

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Speaker 1: Teams will spend probably almost four hundred million dollars this

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Speaker 1: year on pitchers who can't pitch. And they're doing this,

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Speaker 1: by the way, by going to most teams going to

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Speaker 1: six man rotations. Normal rest in today's game is not

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Speaker 1: four folks. If you hear an announcer say he's gone

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Speaker 1: on normal rest.

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Speaker 3: That means five days. You know, ten years ago it

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Speaker 3: was normal.

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Speaker 1: Now only thirty percent of starts are made on the

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Speaker 1: fifth day. So Joe, you were part of it. I

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Speaker 1: mean you saw you had the six man rotation, which show, hey,

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Speaker 1: I get that to accommodate him with the angels. I

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Speaker 1: don't see this trend reversing. I'm not saying it's good

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Speaker 1: or it's bad. I'm just saying that the game now

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Speaker 1: pivots almost more on relief pitching than it does on

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Speaker 1: starting pitching and starting pitching. To me, now his job

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Speaker 1: work through the lineup two times. Don't lose the game.

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Speaker 1: Just keep the team around. Be a game manager if

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Speaker 1: you will. What do you think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's uh and again it's it's really

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Speaker 2: that that component has been analytically driven the third time

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Speaker 2: through the batting voters really become a prominent refrain over

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Speaker 2: the last several years. That's all I heard. I heard

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Speaker 2: that a lot with different pitchers. And I'm going to

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Speaker 2: jump around a bit, but I had guys in the

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Speaker 2: past that, yeah, I do that the third time through

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Speaker 2: us be careful and you don't want them out there,

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Speaker 2: but they also know that the third time through, for

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Speaker 2: some others they would even get better. They were trained,

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Speaker 2: They were trained in a way that they wanted to

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Speaker 2: conclude what they began. So this is it is disturbing,

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Speaker 2: and it is it's a learned behavior on our part.

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Speaker 2: This is how we're teaching our young pitchers to play,

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Speaker 2: and it starts at the amount of leagues. I don't

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Speaker 2: even know what's going on in college. I don't even

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Speaker 2: you know, normally in the past, collegiate coaches would let

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Speaker 2: their guys go because they had less of them and

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Speaker 2: they're trying to win, and weekends would be very, very important.

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Speaker 2: And you know, back in the day, I watched day

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Speaker 2: Is Hue Jim Brock. He was his best picture on Saturday,

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Speaker 2: Friday and Sunday. So I don't know what the college

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Speaker 2: trend is like, but I do know professionally, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's less innings and more injuries. I think part of

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Speaker 2: it also with the injury again, spitballing is just the

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Speaker 2: fact that nobody's being taught to pitch. Everybody's being taught

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Speaker 2: to throw hard and spin the ball at the top

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Speaker 2: of the strike zone. Primarily now the sweep slider is

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Speaker 2: becoming a more prominent pitch, you know, just a bigger slider.

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Speaker 2: And Mark clear of Horse had one of the best

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen in nineteen eighty or seventy nine eight

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Speaker 2: when I caught him. It's the same pitch that's being

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Speaker 2: probably made more prominent right now, become more popular. But

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Speaker 2: this is this all this stuff's been around again. We're

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Speaker 2: not nurturing guys to pitch more deep into games. It's

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Speaker 2: not being encouraged in the minor leagues. And again I

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Speaker 2: always go back there because that's where it needs to

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Speaker 2: be done. It has to be a mindset that the

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Speaker 2: pitcher wants to complete what he began. I watched Cincinnati yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember the picture's name. I was watching. The

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Speaker 2: game was like the fourth or fifth inning, and he

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Speaker 2: was doing okay, left hander, and he was taken out.

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Speaker 2: He was taken out kind of a little bit tight,

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Speaker 2: but middle of the ball game, a lot of game left.

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Speaker 2: And man, wait, like you're talking about we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: all these pictures from he taking your starters out that early.

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Speaker 2: But the point is, as he gave the ball to

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Speaker 2: the manager and he was walking off. He was pretty content.

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Speaker 2: You know, there was no there was no John Lackey

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Speaker 2: moment right there. This is this, I've learned to do this.

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Speaker 2: I've learned that OKA have done my job. I'll go in,

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Speaker 2: I'll get some treatment, I'll lift some weights, I'll watch

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Speaker 2: the game, and I'll come back to more and I'll

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Speaker 2: start this cycle of getting back ready for my next

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Speaker 2: ball game. It's it's an acceptance that we have taught

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Speaker 2: this acceptance of not being expected to go more deeply

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Speaker 2: in the game. So if it's been a learned behavior

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Speaker 2: to do it this way, why can't we reteach it

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Speaker 2: the other way? And part of it, I think, and

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Speaker 2: I'll shut up here, is that it's it's not just

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Speaker 2: about throwing the ball hard. We have to teach guys

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Speaker 2: how to pitch, and pitchers have to be able to

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Speaker 2: manure through the lineup into the third time, into the sixth,

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Speaker 2: seventh inning. I saw very landry yet the other day,

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Speaker 2: just shoving with this fastball. I watched that game against

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Speaker 2: that was that.

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Speaker 3: Cleveland, Yes against Cleveland, shove shoving with.

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Speaker 2: This fastball, and they were late, I mean all the

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Speaker 2: and that was just an attitude on his part. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't like like a pedestrian velocity in today's game ninety

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Speaker 2: four ninety five, But he was shoving because of his

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Speaker 2: attitude and his commitment to each pitch. So, man, it's

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Speaker 2: just it's just what's being taught. It's it's the third

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Speaker 2: time through syndrome, and I'd like to see more nurturing

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Speaker 2: in the minor leagues, of letting guys go further into

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Speaker 2: the game, farther into the game, and more of a

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Speaker 2: pitchability as opposed to a throw ability.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of a line from Kurt Shilling

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Speaker 1: who said starting pitchers they're like labrador retrievers. They'll do

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Speaker 1: what you train them to do, right, And we are

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Speaker 1: training them to pitch two times around the lineup and

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Speaker 1: say I did my job. It's definitely an attitude. I

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Speaker 1: think what you're saying if I read you correctly, Joe,

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Speaker 1: because the third time around metric there's some real facts there, Right,

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Speaker 1: It's hard to dispute that in general, a fresh arm

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Speaker 1: is better than a guy pitching through the lineup a

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Speaker 1: third time. But I said in general, So I think

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Speaker 1: what you're arguing against is one size fits all mentality

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Speaker 1: that there are certain pictures that should be if not

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Speaker 1: trained to do it, they can do it, and you'll

402
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Speaker 1: never know unless you give them the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, I think it's by pitchability. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've always liked my starters that had a third and

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Speaker 2: even a fourth pitch, so that they're not showing the

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Speaker 2: same thing the third time through that they've shown the

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Speaker 2: first time through the batting order. They have a different

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Speaker 2: look for this particular hit or that's really a good

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Speaker 2: starting pitcher. The ability to change speeds, the ability to locate,

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Speaker 2: the ability to put the ball on the ground or

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Speaker 2: elevate when he wants to. But they're not doing this

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Speaker 2: on a minor league level. This is where it has

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Speaker 2: to begin. You just don't bring somebody up and expect

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Speaker 2: them to know how to do all this stuff automatically.

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Speaker 2: On a major league level, there are going to be

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Speaker 2: some horses, some anomalies. The kid with Atlanta, he's probably

417
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Speaker 2: an anomaly. But I do believe there's more out there,

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Speaker 2: if in fact, you give them the opportunity, If in fact,

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Speaker 2: on a minor league level, you encourage and teach them

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Speaker 2: to maneuver through the third time through the batting order, listen,

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Speaker 2: if it was like the right way to do things,

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Speaker 2: it would be losing right now. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of teams that are struggling. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: teams that can't get anybody out. You're talking about the

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Speaker 2: state of starting pitching. So why is this the right

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Speaker 2: way to do things? I don't get it. It's the

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Speaker 2: way it's being done right now, but it doesn't necessari

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Speaker 2: mean it's right. And that's that's where I get confused

429
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Speaker 2: with all this stuff, because if it's not. If it

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Speaker 2: was it was as easy as just applying this kind

431
00:22:13,798 --> 00:22:18,318
Speaker 2: of doctrine to our organizational philosophy, then I would expect

432
00:22:18,358 --> 00:22:20,438
Speaker 2: more wins. And it's just not happening everywhere.

433
00:22:20,598 --> 00:22:21,278
Speaker 3: No, it's not.

434
00:22:21,638 --> 00:22:25,158
Speaker 1: And you made a good point about pitchability. I looked

435
00:22:25,198 --> 00:22:30,998
Speaker 1: at four seam fastball velocity by inning this year, and

436
00:22:31,038 --> 00:22:36,198
Speaker 1: for starting pitchers, pitchers the highest average velocity. You got it,

437
00:22:36,198 --> 00:22:39,158
Speaker 1: it's the first inning, and then it goes down the second,

438
00:22:39,438 --> 00:22:42,238
Speaker 1: it goes down the third, it goes down in the fourth,

439
00:22:42,558 --> 00:22:44,558
Speaker 1: it goes down in the fifth, and then in the

440
00:22:44,598 --> 00:22:48,278
Speaker 1: sixth inning when bullpens take over, it starts ramping up

441
00:22:48,318 --> 00:22:50,118
Speaker 1: again until we get to the ninth inning, of course,

442
00:22:50,158 --> 00:22:52,998
Speaker 1: where you have the highest sure average four seam velocity

443
00:22:52,998 --> 00:22:56,478
Speaker 1: at ninety five. But pitchers starting pitchers now are taking

444
00:22:56,518 --> 00:22:58,758
Speaker 1: the ball from their very first pitch of the game

445
00:22:58,838 --> 00:23:02,278
Speaker 1: as if they're closing the game. It's a game predicated

446
00:23:02,318 --> 00:23:05,718
Speaker 1: on swings and misses in from the first inning, and

447
00:23:05,758 --> 00:23:08,678
Speaker 1: that's why you're seeing walks are up and strikeouts are up.

448
00:23:08,758 --> 00:23:11,838
Speaker 1: I see pitchers all the time they realize, hey, a

449
00:23:11,958 --> 00:23:14,598
Speaker 1: walk is not a bad play, correct, So I'm going

450
00:23:14,678 --> 00:23:16,398
Speaker 1: to spin the baseball even.

451
00:23:16,198 --> 00:23:17,558
Speaker 3: When I'm behind on the count.

452
00:23:17,638 --> 00:23:20,198
Speaker 1: I'll live with the walk, and I will all the

453
00:23:20,278 --> 00:23:22,438
Speaker 1: times try for that strikeout.

454
00:23:22,478 --> 00:23:23,398
Speaker 3: For the swing and miss.

455
00:23:23,398 --> 00:23:25,838
Speaker 1: That's part of what guys are paid for, right, the

456
00:23:25,838 --> 00:23:27,798
Speaker 1: swing and miss, keeping the ball out of play.

457
00:23:28,798 --> 00:23:32,078
Speaker 3: So we're encouraging our starters to go out the game

458
00:23:32,398 --> 00:23:33,598
Speaker 3: like their closers.

459
00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:35,838
Speaker 2: And that's you know, back when we were doing this

460
00:23:35,878 --> 00:23:37,598
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, there's a lot of talk

461
00:23:37,638 --> 00:23:39,638
Speaker 2: about pitching the contact. I mean, that was a big

462
00:23:39,678 --> 00:23:42,398
Speaker 2: line back in the eighties when I first began, and

463
00:23:42,438 --> 00:23:44,158
Speaker 2: that's where the defense is. You know, you wanted to

464
00:23:44,158 --> 00:23:46,518
Speaker 2: put your defense obviously in the right spot, and you

465
00:23:46,558 --> 00:23:48,398
Speaker 2: wanted somebody to be able to pick up a ground ball,

466
00:23:48,438 --> 00:23:50,358
Speaker 2: because a lot of times you did have singcer ball

467
00:23:50,398 --> 00:23:54,198
Speaker 2: pitchers that would pitch the contact you want. My theory

468
00:23:54,238 --> 00:23:57,238
Speaker 2: as a minor league coordinator was to get an out.

469
00:23:57,278 --> 00:23:58,958
Speaker 2: I wanted my pitchers to get an out within the

470
00:23:58,998 --> 00:24:02,278
Speaker 2: first three pitches of an at bat. Uh. You know,

471
00:24:02,318 --> 00:24:04,798
Speaker 2: the longer that bathroom we're pitches seen, obviously that I think

472
00:24:04,838 --> 00:24:07,518
Speaker 2: the hitter at a great redvantage. And of course with

473
00:24:07,638 --> 00:24:11,318
Speaker 2: that more pitches thrown Perrett Batt, then the starting pitcher

474
00:24:11,398 --> 00:24:12,958
Speaker 2: is less of a chance to go more deeply into

475
00:24:12,958 --> 00:24:14,998
Speaker 2: the game. I remember doing that with the kids in

476
00:24:15,038 --> 00:24:16,518
Speaker 2: the minor league, and I did with guys in the

477
00:24:16,518 --> 00:24:19,158
Speaker 2: big leagues. I wanted the out within the first three pitches.

478
00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:21,558
Speaker 2: But that's not the case. Like you're saying, well, can

479
00:24:21,638 --> 00:24:24,238
Speaker 2: I keep trying to strike you out at the expense

480
00:24:24,278 --> 00:24:27,078
Speaker 2: of five, six, seven, eight pitches because I'm not going

481
00:24:27,158 --> 00:24:29,038
Speaker 2: to give in. I'm going to keep rearing back and

482
00:24:29,038 --> 00:24:31,598
Speaker 2: throwing as hard as as I possibly can. There is

483
00:24:31,678 --> 00:24:35,358
Speaker 2: not that pitch ability. Of course there is. Kyle Hendricks,

484
00:24:35,678 --> 00:24:37,918
Speaker 2: I had James Shields. I could start naming guys that

485
00:24:37,998 --> 00:24:40,518
Speaker 2: had great pitch ability. They're able to pitch more deeply

486
00:24:40,558 --> 00:24:44,518
Speaker 2: into the game. They didn't really manage with this philosophy

487
00:24:44,838 --> 00:24:48,638
Speaker 2: a whole long regarding just you know, elevated velocity, rare

488
00:24:48,718 --> 00:24:50,518
Speaker 2: back and throw as hard as you can. Jake McGee

489
00:24:50,558 --> 00:24:53,158
Speaker 2: was that as an example out of the bullpen. He

490
00:24:53,238 --> 00:24:56,038
Speaker 2: just threw fastball, left handed fastball, and everybody's crying that

491
00:24:56,078 --> 00:24:57,998
Speaker 2: he needs a breakupy I said, no, he doesn't, just

492
00:24:57,998 --> 00:25:00,318
Speaker 2: needs to keep throwing that same pitch over and over again.

493
00:25:00,598 --> 00:25:03,598
Speaker 2: I think one year, right, he's Hito point ninety nine against.

494
00:25:04,638 --> 00:25:06,278
Speaker 2: But that was a one inning guy. It was not

495
00:25:06,438 --> 00:25:09,158
Speaker 2: the whole game. But my pictures with the Rays, and

496
00:25:09,238 --> 00:25:11,438
Speaker 2: even look at the guys with the Cubs. They were pitchers,

497
00:25:11,838 --> 00:25:14,038
Speaker 2: they had pitchability about him. They were there, they were

498
00:25:14,038 --> 00:25:17,278
Speaker 2: able to get the third time through. So I understand statistically,

499
00:25:17,358 --> 00:25:19,998
Speaker 2: but I think the statistics are skewed by just what

500
00:25:20,038 --> 00:25:22,038
Speaker 2: you've talked about. If you just got a bunch of

501
00:25:22,078 --> 00:25:23,638
Speaker 2: dudes out there just trying to throw as hard as

502
00:25:23,638 --> 00:25:26,478
Speaker 2: they can and velocity comes down the third time through,

503
00:25:26,798 --> 00:25:29,598
Speaker 2: and these hitters are seeing the same slot the limited

504
00:25:30,478 --> 00:25:32,238
Speaker 2: number of pitchers were kind of pitches that this guy

505
00:25:32,238 --> 00:25:34,198
Speaker 2: can throw. Of course he's gonna narrow him down. It's

506
00:25:34,238 --> 00:25:38,278
Speaker 2: all interconnected. So I like pitchability. I like guys out

507
00:25:38,278 --> 00:25:40,558
Speaker 2: there knowing what they're doing. I want my pictures. My

508
00:25:40,638 --> 00:25:43,318
Speaker 2: starters could go into the sixth seventh inning. That really

509
00:25:43,318 --> 00:25:44,798
Speaker 2: makes my bullpen a whole lot better.

510
00:25:45,118 --> 00:25:48,318
Speaker 1: Well, just since twenty fifteen, and that's not too long ago,

511
00:25:48,518 --> 00:25:53,078
Speaker 1: the percentage of major league starts lasting seven innings has

512
00:25:53,118 --> 00:25:55,798
Speaker 1: been cut by more than half. It used to be

513
00:25:55,838 --> 00:25:59,558
Speaker 1: over thirty percent. Now we're about twelve percent. So we're

514
00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:01,678
Speaker 1: not getting that length from starting pitchings.

515
00:26:02,158 --> 00:26:02,718
Speaker 3: I get it.

516
00:26:03,038 --> 00:26:05,998
Speaker 1: I understand there's there's more power arms in the bullpen,

517
00:26:06,078 --> 00:26:08,038
Speaker 1: and you know, as a manager, Joe, these guys are

518
00:26:08,038 --> 00:26:11,998
Speaker 1: more likely to hurry to their bullpen because they have

519
00:26:12,118 --> 00:26:14,958
Speaker 1: a bevy of choices out there. I always say, the

520
00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:17,958
Speaker 1: worst mistake a manager can make in the game today,

521
00:26:18,318 --> 00:26:21,718
Speaker 1: it seems to me, is leaving a starting pitcher in

522
00:26:21,838 --> 00:26:25,118
Speaker 1: to lose the game lead. No manager wants a starting

523
00:26:25,158 --> 00:26:27,638
Speaker 1: pitcher to lose a game after the sixth inning because

524
00:26:27,638 --> 00:26:29,238
Speaker 1: there's questions to answer.

525
00:26:28,958 --> 00:26:30,358
Speaker 3: Oh, why didn't you go to the bullpen?

526
00:26:30,838 --> 00:26:35,638
Speaker 1: Right, So we're not allowing those pitchers even the opportunity

527
00:26:36,118 --> 00:26:38,118
Speaker 1: to pitch through a jam a second or third time.

528
00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:40,638
Speaker 2: That's what the minor leagues are for. Man, that's where

529
00:26:40,678 --> 00:26:42,598
Speaker 2: these guys have to learn how to do this stuff,

530
00:26:42,598 --> 00:26:45,478
Speaker 2: and they will. You give them the opportunity. They'll learn

531
00:26:45,518 --> 00:26:49,038
Speaker 2: how to change speeds, manipulate the ball somewhat, see what

532
00:26:49,078 --> 00:26:50,878
Speaker 2: the hitter is looking like, what is he doing. Give

533
00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:53,638
Speaker 2: them an opportunity to learn how to do this. You

534
00:26:53,758 --> 00:26:56,878
Speaker 2: just can't expect somebody that's never done it before to

535
00:26:56,878 --> 00:26:58,838
Speaker 2: show up on the major league stage and all of

536
00:26:58,878 --> 00:27:01,678
Speaker 2: a sudden manipulate and figure out how to get into

537
00:27:01,718 --> 00:27:04,398
Speaker 2: that third time through the bat. He's going to happen.

538
00:27:04,438 --> 00:27:06,998
Speaker 2: It's not going to happen. I love the minor leagues.

539
00:27:07,358 --> 00:27:09,118
Speaker 2: That's how I grew up, and I still love the

540
00:27:09,158 --> 00:27:10,998
Speaker 2: minor leagues. I haven't seen it in a while. But

541
00:27:11,078 --> 00:27:13,358
Speaker 2: that's where that's the lab, man, that's the lab. That's

542
00:27:13,358 --> 00:27:15,598
Speaker 2: where these things need to be taught. This is where

543
00:27:15,598 --> 00:27:18,638
Speaker 2: things have to be stretched in a sense. But if

544
00:27:18,678 --> 00:27:20,918
Speaker 2: you're going to just teach specialization from the time the

545
00:27:20,918 --> 00:27:24,358
Speaker 2: guy shows up out of a high school, college or

546
00:27:24,398 --> 00:27:27,878
Speaker 2: junior college and it's all about specialization and this is

547
00:27:27,918 --> 00:27:30,278
Speaker 2: your niche. And once you get to this number I'm

548
00:27:30,278 --> 00:27:32,238
Speaker 2: gonna come get you. You walk off the mountain, you're

549
00:27:32,238 --> 00:27:34,398
Speaker 2: gonna be happy about it. That's what you're gonna get.

550
00:27:34,758 --> 00:27:36,998
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I understand.

551
00:27:37,118 --> 00:27:40,318
Speaker 1: Wins often are a product of how many runs your

552
00:27:40,358 --> 00:27:43,558
Speaker 1: team scores, the defense behind you. Obviously the pitcher doesn't

553
00:27:43,598 --> 00:27:46,678
Speaker 1: have complete command of a win or lose situation. But man,

554
00:27:47,358 --> 00:27:50,438
Speaker 1: I don't care that the win, say twenty wins in

555
00:27:50,478 --> 00:27:53,038
Speaker 1: the season, or having that W next to your name, Man,

556
00:27:53,078 --> 00:27:55,158
Speaker 1: that still matters. That means you stayed in the game

557
00:27:55,198 --> 00:27:58,038
Speaker 1: long enough to work through maybe a jam a second

558
00:27:58,118 --> 00:28:01,078
Speaker 1: or third time. You not only gave your team a

559
00:28:01,198 --> 00:28:04,318
Speaker 1: chance to win, but you got that win yourself because

560
00:28:04,358 --> 00:28:07,118
Speaker 1: you lasted long enough to do that. And I think

561
00:28:07,238 --> 00:28:11,918
Speaker 1: with wins comes glamour, comes prestige. We're losing that, yeah,

562
00:28:12,798 --> 00:28:15,638
Speaker 1: that you know, the no decision? Who cares? I mean,

563
00:28:16,038 --> 00:28:18,558
Speaker 1: like Ed Lynch, the old pitcher in GM, once told me,

564
00:28:18,678 --> 00:28:21,598
Speaker 1: it's the only position in sports we literally build a

565
00:28:21,638 --> 00:28:25,118
Speaker 1: pedestal for the picture is on a mound. The starting

566
00:28:25,158 --> 00:28:29,598
Speaker 1: pitcher should be a drawing card. And we're losing that

567
00:28:29,718 --> 00:28:32,198
Speaker 1: kind of glamour or that kind of drawing power. If

568
00:28:32,198 --> 00:28:35,118
Speaker 1: you will to see a big time pitcher go out there.

569
00:28:35,278 --> 00:28:38,238
Speaker 1: You know, nobody walked into a bar and impressed anybody

570
00:28:38,318 --> 00:28:41,678
Speaker 1: by talking about their their whip or their strikeout rate.

571
00:28:41,758 --> 00:28:44,518
Speaker 1: But if you said, hey, I won twenty games, You're like, wow,

572
00:28:44,598 --> 00:28:45,718
Speaker 1: that's a twenty game winner.

573
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:47,358
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it still matters.

574
00:28:47,398 --> 00:28:50,758
Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying that's the best evaluation of

575
00:28:50,758 --> 00:28:54,078
Speaker 1: a picture, but from a fan perspective, yeah it matters, folks.

576
00:28:54,438 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 2: It's not a bad evaluation. It really is not. And

577
00:28:57,838 --> 00:29:00,238
Speaker 2: you know, I agree with you on all those different counts.

578
00:29:00,278 --> 00:29:03,398
Speaker 2: Buddy Black and I Pepe, manager of the Rockies, were

579
00:29:03,438 --> 00:29:05,958
Speaker 2: still look at the paper when we looked at the

580
00:29:05,998 --> 00:29:08,918
Speaker 2: pay per instans Marquee matchup. You look at a particular

581
00:29:08,958 --> 00:29:11,838
Speaker 2: city and the two pictures. There's two starting pitchers. It's

582
00:29:11,838 --> 00:29:14,758
Speaker 2: a Marquis matchup today, Jojo, we'd walk into a ballpark.

583
00:29:14,798 --> 00:29:17,358
Speaker 2: Our guy was good. There, guy was good, Jojo, Marquee

584
00:29:17,358 --> 00:29:20,038
Speaker 2: matchup today. You don't hear that anymore, you don't. You're

585
00:29:20,038 --> 00:29:24,118
Speaker 2: absolutely right, you do not hear that. What's that's? That

586
00:29:24,318 --> 00:29:26,838
Speaker 2: was a draw? It should be a draw, you know,

587
00:29:26,838 --> 00:29:28,598
Speaker 2: if very lander and sure as they're pitching back to

588
00:29:28,638 --> 00:29:30,478
Speaker 2: back in the double leader, that was a pretty that

589
00:29:30,798 --> 00:29:33,758
Speaker 2: had some marque stuff attached to it yesterday. Whatever it

590
00:29:33,798 --> 00:29:36,278
Speaker 2: was with the Mets, it should be it should be

591
00:29:36,318 --> 00:29:38,878
Speaker 2: re nurtured. I do. I still look at the starting

592
00:29:38,918 --> 00:29:41,678
Speaker 2: pictures and there's times like Manoa. I like Manoa with

593
00:29:41,718 --> 00:29:44,718
Speaker 2: Toronto as an example, and the other dugout at This

594
00:29:44,798 --> 00:29:47,078
Speaker 2: guy was really really good. And I know he got

595
00:29:47,118 --> 00:29:49,918
Speaker 2: caught in that controversy the other day, but as an example,

596
00:29:50,078 --> 00:29:52,638
Speaker 2: I will want to watch him pitch. When I know

597
00:29:52,718 --> 00:29:55,398
Speaker 2: that he's pitching in a particular game, I'll tune in

598
00:29:55,758 --> 00:29:57,958
Speaker 2: just for that reason. And there's still some guys that

599
00:29:58,078 --> 00:30:02,398
Speaker 2: I like like that. But in this industry wide, it

600
00:30:02,478 --> 00:30:04,358
Speaker 2: really would be great to get back in the But again,

601
00:30:04,358 --> 00:30:07,038
Speaker 2: it's not going to happen if it's not deemed to

602
00:30:07,078 --> 00:30:09,678
Speaker 2: be important analytically and if it's not taught on the

603
00:30:09,678 --> 00:30:13,238
Speaker 2: minor league level. And I don't understand why. Like I said,

604
00:30:13,278 --> 00:30:15,598
Speaker 2: the kid walking off the mound from Cincinnati was totally

605
00:30:15,678 --> 00:30:17,958
Speaker 2: content with getting out of there when he did, as

606
00:30:17,998 --> 00:30:21,518
Speaker 2: opposed to really wanting to finish when he started. Isn't

607
00:30:21,558 --> 00:30:23,558
Speaker 2: it a life lesson in some way too? Don't we

608
00:30:23,598 --> 00:30:26,238
Speaker 2: all want to finish what we start? And I don't

609
00:30:26,278 --> 00:30:28,638
Speaker 2: know It's just there's not a whole lot to be

610
00:30:28,718 --> 00:30:31,478
Speaker 2: derived from that. And again, you've got to show me

611
00:30:31,518 --> 00:30:34,798
Speaker 2: on an annual basis that, uh, just a ton plethora

612
00:30:34,838 --> 00:30:36,518
Speaker 2: of relief pictures is going to get it done on

613
00:30:36,558 --> 00:30:38,718
Speaker 2: an annual basis. Yeah, the guy coming in is going

614
00:30:38,758 --> 00:30:41,918
Speaker 2: to throw harder. I get that, but that doesn't necessarily

615
00:30:41,918 --> 00:30:44,478
Speaker 2: mean you're going to be better or win. I still

616
00:30:44,638 --> 00:30:47,398
Speaker 2: I'll take my chances with the good starting staff. It

617
00:30:47,398 --> 00:30:50,198
Speaker 2: gets me consistently to the sixth inning, that permits me

618
00:30:50,238 --> 00:30:52,878
Speaker 2: to use my bullpen less and keep those guys fresh

619
00:30:52,878 --> 00:30:55,078
Speaker 2: for them for the playoffs. I still prefer that with it.

620
00:30:55,758 --> 00:30:58,838
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, we've got two more categories on our Baseball

621
00:30:58,918 --> 00:31:02,398
Speaker 1: Jeopardy board, slumps and super groups.

622
00:31:02,878 --> 00:31:03,158
Speaker 2: Cool.

623
00:31:03,238 --> 00:31:16,998
Speaker 1: We'll be back at it after this. Hey, Joe, I

624
00:31:16,998 --> 00:31:19,278
Speaker 1: got a question for you. Do you remember ever having

625
00:31:19,318 --> 00:31:22,118
Speaker 1: a really bad slump as a minor leaguer or maybe

626
00:31:22,198 --> 00:31:22,718
Speaker 1: in college?

627
00:31:23,838 --> 00:31:27,038
Speaker 2: My whole life? Yeah? Yeah, you know, every year I

628
00:31:27,038 --> 00:31:29,038
Speaker 2: had locked yet the cold weather, even though I'm from

629
00:31:29,118 --> 00:31:31,518
Speaker 2: the cold weather man. That first month, I'd be looking

630
00:31:31,598 --> 00:31:34,478
Speaker 2: swinging at pitches and I'd see them going over the

631
00:31:34,518 --> 00:31:36,798
Speaker 2: bat and thinking what am I doing wrong here? And

632
00:31:37,518 --> 00:31:39,358
Speaker 2: it needed the weather to warm up, to find out

633
00:31:39,838 --> 00:31:41,598
Speaker 2: where the bat where the head of the bat needed

634
00:31:41,638 --> 00:31:44,438
Speaker 2: to be. So, yes, we've all been involved in slumps.

635
00:31:44,878 --> 00:31:45,118
Speaker 3: Well.

636
00:31:45,838 --> 00:31:50,638
Speaker 1: Trace Thompson of the LA Dodgers is on the longest

637
00:31:50,838 --> 00:31:55,158
Speaker 1: hitless slump of any position player in Dodgers' history. This

638
00:31:55,198 --> 00:31:57,158
Speaker 1: is a guy who started the year with three home

639
00:31:57,278 --> 00:32:00,118
Speaker 1: runs in his first game. Figure he's heading for a

640
00:32:00,118 --> 00:32:04,958
Speaker 1: great year, right. He's gone zero for thirty eight. That's

641
00:32:05,078 --> 00:32:07,598
Speaker 1: more than a month without a hit. He's not an

642
00:32:07,598 --> 00:32:09,958
Speaker 1: everyday player, of course, so he's not getting a lot

643
00:32:09,998 --> 00:32:14,158
Speaker 1: of AB's. Imagine going like five six weeks without a hit.

644
00:32:14,838 --> 00:32:19,358
Speaker 1: Oh for thirty eight. I remember Derek Jeter once oh

645
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:22,638
Speaker 1: for thirty two, which is like crazy for a future

646
00:32:22,678 --> 00:32:25,878
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. I remember Derek one time. He was

647
00:32:26,038 --> 00:32:28,918
Speaker 1: so desperate for a hit he tried to bunt for

648
00:32:28,958 --> 00:32:30,558
Speaker 1: a base hit with a guy on second base in

649
00:32:30,598 --> 00:32:33,118
Speaker 1: two outs. Not normally a good play, but he did it.

650
00:32:33,198 --> 00:32:35,798
Speaker 1: He needed a hit, didn't get it, wound up breaking

651
00:32:35,838 --> 00:32:38,398
Speaker 1: out of it with a home run of Barry Zito.

652
00:32:39,878 --> 00:32:42,598
Speaker 1: The worst slump I think of all time, certainly in

653
00:32:42,638 --> 00:32:47,718
Speaker 1: recent times. OH for fifty four by Chris Davis, The

654
00:32:47,758 --> 00:32:50,518
Speaker 1: Baltimore Orioles. We're not talking about pictures. There's been some

655
00:32:50,798 --> 00:32:56,718
Speaker 1: historic ones for pictures, but position players. So I'm curious, Joe,

656
00:32:56,758 --> 00:32:59,518
Speaker 1: when you've got you've got one of your players going

657
00:32:59,598 --> 00:33:02,438
Speaker 1: through those slumps, and as you know, they tend to

658
00:33:02,478 --> 00:33:05,518
Speaker 1: take a life on its own, of its own, what

659
00:33:05,638 --> 00:33:07,518
Speaker 1: can you do try to get a guy out of it.

660
00:33:07,718 --> 00:33:10,878
Speaker 2: I try to simplify primarily, and I really I do.

661
00:33:10,918 --> 00:33:13,238
Speaker 2: I try to get out of the mechanical component, just

662
00:33:13,238 --> 00:33:16,518
Speaker 2: get into the mental component, like try to reduce the

663
00:33:16,558 --> 00:33:19,838
Speaker 2: task at hand. Here as an example, I just emphasized

664
00:33:19,838 --> 00:33:21,358
Speaker 2: middle of the field. We just got to stay in

665
00:33:21,398 --> 00:33:26,238
Speaker 2: the middle, look away first, slow the pitch down. Really,

666
00:33:26,278 --> 00:33:28,758
Speaker 2: the whole field has to become your friend again, because

667
00:33:28,798 --> 00:33:31,758
Speaker 2: a lot of times that guy gets in a pool mode,

668
00:33:31,838 --> 00:33:35,598
Speaker 2: rollover mode, chase mode. That's what happens in large slumps.

669
00:33:35,598 --> 00:33:38,478
Speaker 2: So it's rare that you're hitting the ball hard consistently

670
00:33:38,878 --> 00:33:41,478
Speaker 2: and it's right at people and it's caught. It's normally

671
00:33:41,838 --> 00:33:44,718
Speaker 2: it's normally weak contact and chase. So I like to

672
00:33:44,758 --> 00:33:47,238
Speaker 2: do that. I like to get them to narrow it

673
00:33:47,238 --> 00:33:49,918
Speaker 2: down and think middle first, like I said in an opposide,

674
00:33:50,438 --> 00:33:52,598
Speaker 2: and the farther the ball is away from your body,

675
00:33:52,598 --> 00:33:54,358
Speaker 2: the deeper let it get in other words, you got

676
00:33:54,358 --> 00:33:56,598
Speaker 2: more time. So these are the kind of things I

677
00:33:56,598 --> 00:33:58,638
Speaker 2: will talk about. I really want to stay away from

678
00:33:59,478 --> 00:34:02,838
Speaker 2: physical mechanics. That's just going to bog it down even

679
00:34:02,878 --> 00:34:05,638
Speaker 2: more so I always do begin with that with the hitter.

680
00:34:05,638 --> 00:34:08,118
Speaker 2: And then we've talked about this too. Depends on the

681
00:34:08,118 --> 00:34:10,598
Speaker 2: status of the guy also, and it's listen, if he's

682
00:34:10,638 --> 00:34:12,958
Speaker 2: going to go for thirty something on a like a

683
00:34:13,078 --> 00:34:15,878
Speaker 2: Jeter did, of course he's an everyday player, you're not

684
00:34:15,918 --> 00:34:18,118
Speaker 2: gonna sit him. I like moving those guys up in

685
00:34:18,158 --> 00:34:23,078
Speaker 2: the batting order as opposed below. And again my thought is, listen,

686
00:34:23,118 --> 00:34:24,678
Speaker 2: I want you to just get try to get on

687
00:34:24,718 --> 00:34:27,398
Speaker 2: base somehow. Just get on base. Stop thinking about hits.

688
00:34:27,478 --> 00:34:30,718
Speaker 2: Just get on base. And I also believe if they

689
00:34:30,798 --> 00:34:33,918
Speaker 2: start accepting their walks, that's when the hits starts showing up,

690
00:34:33,918 --> 00:34:35,998
Speaker 2: because again, they start getting their strikes on in order.

691
00:34:36,238 --> 00:34:38,478
Speaker 2: So this is how this is where I come from.

692
00:34:38,838 --> 00:34:41,318
Speaker 2: When I get a guy that's really struggling like that,

693
00:34:41,358 --> 00:34:44,118
Speaker 2: we've all had them. But I think the worst thing

694
00:34:44,158 --> 00:34:47,518
Speaker 2: you can do is start to try to get mentally

695
00:34:47,958 --> 00:34:51,478
Speaker 2: mechanical physically mechanical. It's it's where of your mental mechanics

696
00:34:51,518 --> 00:34:52,998
Speaker 2: that are messing up on you as opposed to your

697
00:34:53,038 --> 00:34:55,558
Speaker 2: physical mechanics. And I think during the course of a

698
00:34:55,598 --> 00:34:58,678
Speaker 2: baseball season, the deeper you get, the more your mechanical

699
00:34:58,678 --> 00:35:00,958
Speaker 2: work needs to be mental mechanics as opposed to physical.

700
00:35:01,198 --> 00:35:03,118
Speaker 1: Hey, I love what you said about moving the guy

701
00:35:03,198 --> 00:35:06,118
Speaker 1: up in the order. Joe Torrey was a big proponent

702
00:35:06,158 --> 00:35:09,038
Speaker 1: of that that, as you said, you kind of take

703
00:35:09,118 --> 00:35:12,838
Speaker 1: the onus off getting a hit to just get on base.

704
00:35:13,558 --> 00:35:16,038
Speaker 1: And oftentimes, especially if you move a guy to the

705
00:35:16,118 --> 00:35:19,278
Speaker 1: number two spot, which Joe liked to do, you're surrounded

706
00:35:19,278 --> 00:35:21,758
Speaker 1: by good hitters, you may see some more fastballs.

707
00:35:22,518 --> 00:35:24,598
Speaker 3: You just slotted into a good spot in the order.

708
00:35:24,638 --> 00:35:28,118
Speaker 1: And I think I personally like the message that you're

709
00:35:28,158 --> 00:35:30,798
Speaker 1: sending that I'm with you. I think when you move

710
00:35:30,878 --> 00:35:32,998
Speaker 1: guys down in the lineup, what you're doing is you're

711
00:35:32,998 --> 00:35:35,678
Speaker 1: trying to take pressure off a guy, but you're basically

712
00:35:35,758 --> 00:35:38,238
Speaker 1: giving into the slump and saying, you know what, you're

713
00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:39,958
Speaker 1: not going well now, so I have to drop you

714
00:35:39,958 --> 00:35:43,238
Speaker 1: in the order. It's sort of a negative reinforcement to me,

715
00:35:43,438 --> 00:35:46,678
Speaker 1: So I like the counterintuitive moving the guy up in

716
00:35:46,758 --> 00:35:47,278
Speaker 1: the lineup.

717
00:35:47,558 --> 00:35:49,238
Speaker 2: One more thing, Tommy too. The other thing I'd like

718
00:35:49,278 --> 00:35:50,758
Speaker 2: to do there is put a hit and run sign on.

719
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:53,318
Speaker 2: I'll force the guy to swing the bat. So you're

720
00:35:53,318 --> 00:35:55,998
Speaker 2: just trying to pick a picture that's run the strike zone.

721
00:35:56,158 --> 00:35:58,358
Speaker 2: Maybe a sinker ball pitcher, a ball might be on

722
00:35:58,398 --> 00:36:02,278
Speaker 2: the ground. But if I'm facing if we're facing a

723
00:36:02,318 --> 00:36:07,158
Speaker 2: command pitcher somewhat of a sinker ball guy, I will

724
00:36:07,158 --> 00:36:09,478
Speaker 2: try to pick a count to get the runner started,

725
00:36:09,518 --> 00:36:12,238
Speaker 2: because now the hitter totally commits to swing the bat

726
00:36:12,278 --> 00:36:14,958
Speaker 2: in that situation. I've had some success with that with

727
00:36:15,118 --> 00:36:16,598
Speaker 2: pretty good hitters that are in a little bit of

728
00:36:16,598 --> 00:36:18,958
Speaker 2: a slump because you're in the maybe mode. A lot

729
00:36:18,958 --> 00:36:20,558
Speaker 2: of the slump is the maybe mode. Should I swing?

730
00:36:20,558 --> 00:36:23,118
Speaker 2: Should I not swing? And then that of course, whenever

731
00:36:23,118 --> 00:36:25,478
Speaker 2: you're in the maybe mode, it never works. So you

732
00:36:25,598 --> 00:36:27,358
Speaker 2: got to get them to see the ball commit to

733
00:36:27,398 --> 00:36:29,558
Speaker 2: the pitch. So I do like an automatic hit and

734
00:36:29,678 --> 00:36:32,478
Speaker 2: run to get him to swing the bat. Regardless of

735
00:36:32,518 --> 00:36:35,158
Speaker 2: what happens, at least he commits to the swing, and

736
00:36:35,238 --> 00:36:37,158
Speaker 2: sometimes he comes out feeling better about it.

737
00:36:37,358 --> 00:36:40,358
Speaker 1: The mental component is amazing, isn't it, Joe? I mean

738
00:36:40,838 --> 00:36:44,118
Speaker 1: a slump of that kind of like crazy length. It

739
00:36:44,238 --> 00:36:47,758
Speaker 1: becomes such a mental weight. And we're talking about the

740
00:36:47,798 --> 00:36:50,678
Speaker 1: finest athletes of the game. Getting to that level. You

741
00:36:50,838 --> 00:36:54,638
Speaker 1: have to be competitive, you have to be able to

742
00:36:54,678 --> 00:36:57,798
Speaker 1: persevere just to get there. But then it's amazing how

743
00:36:57,838 --> 00:37:01,158
Speaker 1: the confidence can just wither to nothing when you can't

744
00:37:01,198 --> 00:37:03,398
Speaker 1: buy a hit for a week, for a couple of weeks,

745
00:37:03,398 --> 00:37:04,798
Speaker 1: in this case, five weeks.

746
00:37:06,198 --> 00:37:07,558
Speaker 3: What about the mental.

747
00:37:07,278 --> 00:37:09,038
Speaker 1: Side of it, Joe, is there anything that you can

748
00:37:09,118 --> 00:37:12,238
Speaker 1: do try to change a guy's routine, laugh about it.

749
00:37:12,318 --> 00:37:15,438
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people like Jeter, like a

750
00:37:15,478 --> 00:37:18,118
Speaker 1: lot of players, he would never want to say the

751
00:37:18,278 --> 00:37:21,798
Speaker 1: s word slump. Guys don't even want to say that.

752
00:37:21,998 --> 00:37:24,438
Speaker 1: Like on defense with the yips, nobody ever wants to

753
00:37:24,438 --> 00:37:25,238
Speaker 1: say the yips.

754
00:37:25,238 --> 00:37:26,318
Speaker 3: They call it the thing.

755
00:37:26,958 --> 00:37:31,278
Speaker 1: The slump just becomes almost a character, a beast in

756
00:37:31,318 --> 00:37:31,918
Speaker 1: its own way.

757
00:37:32,358 --> 00:37:35,078
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, sometimes you're swinging too much. I think

758
00:37:35,078 --> 00:37:37,238
Speaker 2: there's a point of diminishing returns with all this too.

759
00:37:37,798 --> 00:37:40,038
Speaker 2: So I'll actually ask my guy to swing less, or

760
00:37:40,078 --> 00:37:42,958
Speaker 2: just show up and play, you know, come in later today,

761
00:37:43,758 --> 00:37:46,238
Speaker 2: just come in late, don't even go to the cage,

762
00:37:46,318 --> 00:37:48,718
Speaker 2: just come in, stretch, do your treatment, whatever it is.

763
00:37:49,038 --> 00:37:50,758
Speaker 2: When you see that first pitch in the game, that's

764
00:37:50,798 --> 00:37:52,798
Speaker 2: the first pitch you're seeing all day. As an example,

765
00:37:53,598 --> 00:37:56,798
Speaker 2: or just overall less batting practice, sometimes we swing ourselves

766
00:37:56,838 --> 00:37:59,518
Speaker 2: into slumps. I'll say his name, Jackie. How I love

767
00:37:59,638 --> 00:38:02,398
Speaker 2: Jackie Hal Jackie was a young angel and I remember

768
00:38:02,518 --> 00:38:05,078
Speaker 2: working with him at Tucson. He was up to the

769
00:38:05,118 --> 00:38:07,598
Speaker 2: big league club. Send him back down, he's having some issues.

770
00:38:07,598 --> 00:38:10,598
Speaker 2: They go to Tucson. I'm throwing BP. It's kind of hot,

771
00:38:10,838 --> 00:38:13,078
Speaker 2: and he's killing it. He's absolutely killing it. But then

772
00:38:13,118 --> 00:38:15,558
Speaker 2: one more, one more, one more. And when you do that,

773
00:38:15,998 --> 00:38:18,638
Speaker 2: if you roll something over, pop something up again, I

774
00:38:18,678 --> 00:38:21,078
Speaker 2: want one more. So we should have quit after four

775
00:38:21,158 --> 00:38:22,958
Speaker 2: or five minutes. We were there for almost half an

776
00:38:22,958 --> 00:38:25,558
Speaker 2: hour based on one more. So those are the kind

777
00:38:25,598 --> 00:38:27,238
Speaker 2: of things a good hitting coach has to be able

778
00:38:27,278 --> 00:38:30,558
Speaker 2: to tell this guy, listen, no, that's enough, that's enough today.

779
00:38:30,638 --> 00:38:33,238
Speaker 2: Let's move it along. Just put the bat down. Because

780
00:38:33,238 --> 00:38:36,718
Speaker 2: there's there's arm wariness, there's mental weariness, there's all kinds

781
00:38:36,758 --> 00:38:40,038
Speaker 2: of weariness that's going to occur by just continually swinging.

782
00:38:40,118 --> 00:38:41,998
Speaker 2: Then when you do that, you're practicing the wrong things.

783
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:45,318
Speaker 2: Anyhow So, I'd like a hitting coach to take charge

784
00:38:45,358 --> 00:38:48,438
Speaker 2: of that moment. And sometimes it's less is more, And

785
00:38:48,758 --> 00:38:51,318
Speaker 2: you have to understand that because I've seen so many

786
00:38:51,358 --> 00:38:53,798
Speaker 2: guys that just they want to You want to swing

787
00:38:53,838 --> 00:38:55,518
Speaker 2: yourself out of a slump. It's like going down to

788
00:38:55,518 --> 00:38:57,318
Speaker 2: the driving range. Okay, you had a couple of good

789
00:38:57,398 --> 00:38:59,438
Speaker 2: just leave. George Hendricks was the best. I used to

790
00:38:59,478 --> 00:39:03,598
Speaker 2: throw becuz BP as a young coach, and Cousins an angel,

791
00:39:04,118 --> 00:39:05,838
Speaker 2: and we go down to the cage at gene Autry

792
00:39:05,878 --> 00:39:07,958
Speaker 2: with his little helmet on and he says, I want

793
00:39:08,038 --> 00:39:11,838
Speaker 2: about fifteen that's it. He would say that, then I'd

794
00:39:11,878 --> 00:39:14,398
Speaker 2: go and I'd throw a couple pitches. He would always

795
00:39:14,398 --> 00:39:17,238
Speaker 2: adjust after each pitch, and maybe after ten he hits

796
00:39:17,238 --> 00:39:19,398
Speaker 2: a bully, said that I'm good, and he'd walk out.

797
00:39:19,558 --> 00:39:23,398
Speaker 2: He would just walk out. Love Couzins approach. Cousins pretty good,

798
00:39:23,438 --> 00:39:26,558
Speaker 2: so everybody, and we have taught hitters to swing way

799
00:39:26,598 --> 00:39:29,998
Speaker 2: too much. I think that's because of the nature of

800
00:39:29,998 --> 00:39:34,558
Speaker 2: the way teaching occurs right now. And always think more

801
00:39:34,638 --> 00:39:38,198
Speaker 2: is better, and I do not subscribe to that theory

802
00:39:38,278 --> 00:39:41,638
Speaker 2: at all. Less is more. A lot of times and again,

803
00:39:41,678 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 2: a good hitting coach knows when they say time out.

804
00:39:43,758 --> 00:39:45,438
Speaker 3: That's enough, well said brother.

805
00:39:46,198 --> 00:39:48,758
Speaker 1: One more category on our baseball Jeopardy board, and that

806
00:39:48,878 --> 00:39:53,558
Speaker 1: is supergroups. Joe, the nineteen seventies, Man, what is it

807
00:39:53,718 --> 00:39:58,758
Speaker 1: about rock bands in the nineteen seventies, Because there were supergroups.

808
00:39:58,798 --> 00:40:01,198
Speaker 1: I mean you have people who went on the talented

809
00:40:01,518 --> 00:40:04,118
Speaker 1: solo careers getting together in these super groups.

810
00:40:04,118 --> 00:40:06,278
Speaker 3: And I love the way that they told stories.

811
00:40:06,318 --> 00:40:09,078
Speaker 1: You know, we started out talking about Rick Hummel and

812
00:40:09,158 --> 00:40:13,118
Speaker 1: the storytelling involved with baseball writing. I think about bands

813
00:40:13,118 --> 00:40:16,398
Speaker 1: in the seventies, whether it was rock operas, you know,

814
00:40:16,558 --> 00:40:20,918
Speaker 1: concept albums, or just long songs that had an arc

815
00:40:20,998 --> 00:40:24,398
Speaker 1: of a story to it. I mean, you just don't

816
00:40:24,478 --> 00:40:25,518
Speaker 1: see those anymore.

817
00:40:25,838 --> 00:40:26,318
Speaker 3: Obviously.

818
00:40:26,358 --> 00:40:29,318
Speaker 1: You're talking about groups like Pink, Floyd, led Zeppelin, The Who,

819
00:40:30,278 --> 00:40:36,678
Speaker 1: the Eagles, Fleetwood, Mac Chicago, Kansas, Boston. That sounds like

820
00:40:36,718 --> 00:40:42,198
Speaker 1: a college conference, Chicago, Kansas, Boston. So I know this

821
00:40:42,238 --> 00:40:45,958
Speaker 1: is up your rally, Joe. Yeah, seventies bands, Where are

822
00:40:45,958 --> 00:40:49,398
Speaker 1: you going? If if you want to throw on an album,

823
00:40:49,478 --> 00:40:52,118
Speaker 1: imagine that concept, not just the song, but an album.

824
00:40:52,198 --> 00:40:54,798
Speaker 2: Oh that's white open man.

825
00:40:54,958 --> 00:40:56,798
Speaker 1: Because the kids today, man, they don't even know what

826
00:40:56,838 --> 00:40:59,838
Speaker 1: an album is, right, I mean, you just go through

827
00:40:59,878 --> 00:41:03,038
Speaker 1: your playlist. It's one song after another by different groups.

828
00:41:03,078 --> 00:41:05,838
Speaker 1: But back in the day when you had to throw

829
00:41:05,878 --> 00:41:09,438
Speaker 1: that turntable on you went through the album. Oh yeah,

830
00:41:09,838 --> 00:41:12,278
Speaker 1: you got the arc of an album. There was concepts

831
00:41:12,278 --> 00:41:15,238
Speaker 1: to the album. One song kind of dovetailed into another,

832
00:41:15,478 --> 00:41:16,598
Speaker 1: or there was a theme there.

833
00:41:16,678 --> 00:41:17,558
Speaker 3: It was amazing.

834
00:41:17,838 --> 00:41:20,598
Speaker 1: It held you through the course of that, that needle

835
00:41:20,638 --> 00:41:22,358
Speaker 1: working its way across that disc.

836
00:41:22,758 --> 00:41:24,198
Speaker 2: I mean, I could go. I mean, to begin with

837
00:41:24,358 --> 00:41:26,358
Speaker 2: was always I mean, I started in early seventies with

838
00:41:26,558 --> 00:41:29,918
Speaker 2: Elton John with Tumbleweed Connection. I've always considered that one

839
00:41:29,958 --> 00:41:31,918
Speaker 2: of his best, or mad Man Across the Water. But

840
00:41:32,438 --> 00:41:35,238
Speaker 2: and then Grand Funk Railroad. You talked about this operatic

841
00:41:35,278 --> 00:41:37,918
Speaker 2: that was on your Captain Grand Funk Railroad. And then

842
00:41:37,918 --> 00:41:40,918
Speaker 2: you go to the mid seventies and green Grass and

843
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:44,878
Speaker 2: High Tides by the Outlaws. Currently, yeah, that was that

844
00:41:44,918 --> 00:41:47,438
Speaker 2: to me is like one of the best jams in history,

845
00:41:47,798 --> 00:41:49,638
Speaker 2: long jams. But when he just came to listening to

846
00:41:49,678 --> 00:41:52,598
Speaker 2: an album, like from start to finish, because you liked

847
00:41:52,678 --> 00:41:55,038
Speaker 2: every song I liked, I liked I liked el John

848
00:41:55,118 --> 00:41:58,038
Speaker 2: for that, I liked Crosby, Stills and Nash for that.

849
00:41:58,678 --> 00:42:02,358
Speaker 2: I like the who for that God, I could keep

850
00:42:02,398 --> 00:42:05,798
Speaker 2: going on. I mean where Springsteen began in seventy two

851
00:42:05,918 --> 00:42:08,798
Speaker 2: three for me, and Greetings from Asbury Park is still

852
00:42:08,798 --> 00:42:10,718
Speaker 2: one of my favorites. I will if I need to

853
00:42:10,758 --> 00:42:12,838
Speaker 2: be picked up for any reason, I'll just throw that on. Really,

854
00:42:12,838 --> 00:42:14,638
Speaker 2: I got these, Sirwin Vega. I think I'll tell you,

855
00:42:14,678 --> 00:42:17,438
Speaker 2: Sirwin Vegan speakers right here to my right each way

856
00:42:17,438 --> 00:42:20,318
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five pounds, and I could bluetooth

857
00:42:20,358 --> 00:42:23,398
Speaker 2: my music through that or a I do have a

858
00:42:24,678 --> 00:42:27,318
Speaker 2: turntable up on top there, and I just pound that

859
00:42:27,358 --> 00:42:29,118
Speaker 2: real loud. Like I said, I'll turn the lights out

860
00:42:29,158 --> 00:42:32,798
Speaker 2: at night. How about like led Zeppelin? Man, I mean,

861
00:42:32,958 --> 00:42:37,678
Speaker 2: Stepplin is another one. I could just that's the one group. Now,

862
00:42:37,758 --> 00:42:41,198
Speaker 2: if they ever whatever's left of them decided to get

863
00:42:41,238 --> 00:42:44,318
Speaker 2: back together, I'm going, I don't know where it's going

864
00:42:44,398 --> 00:42:47,958
Speaker 2: to be. I'm going, if Zeppelin ever decided we're going

865
00:42:48,038 --> 00:42:51,878
Speaker 2: to do this another time, I will absolutely attempt to

866
00:42:51,878 --> 00:42:54,118
Speaker 2: get there as much as well as I possibly can.

867
00:42:54,198 --> 00:42:57,638
Speaker 2: Because that group there, I always stop and listen to

868
00:42:57,718 --> 00:43:02,638
Speaker 2: Zeppelin to create creativity of that group was phenomenal. David Bowie,

869
00:43:02,718 --> 00:43:05,718
Speaker 2: I'm a big David Bowie. So listen on and on,

870
00:43:05,798 --> 00:43:07,358
Speaker 2: But when it comes down to just listening to an

871
00:43:07,358 --> 00:43:11,318
Speaker 2: album I loved, I loved John John, I love Springsteen,

872
00:43:11,558 --> 00:43:16,878
Speaker 2: and yeah, shoot, all these dudes, man, I and they

873
00:43:16,878 --> 00:43:19,518
Speaker 2: can even go like Demully Hatchett. I mean I all

874
00:43:19,558 --> 00:43:22,918
Speaker 2: these guys that were just such from and the other

875
00:43:22,958 --> 00:43:25,438
Speaker 2: thing was identifiable. You knew it was them. You know,

876
00:43:25,918 --> 00:43:28,038
Speaker 2: the sound was their sound, you knew who, You k

877
00:43:28,038 --> 00:43:31,238
Speaker 2: know who you were listening to, even after five notes Santana,

878
00:43:31,318 --> 00:43:33,478
Speaker 2: I'm hoping to see him this summer. So yeah, I

879
00:43:33,518 --> 00:43:34,198
Speaker 2: could go on and on.

880
00:43:34,358 --> 00:43:37,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm always blown away by how many great tracks

881
00:43:38,078 --> 00:43:41,118
Speaker 1: the Eagles cranked out. Sure, I mean, we know there's

882
00:43:41,118 --> 00:43:44,838
Speaker 1: a supergroup and unbelievable, but man, it's just one and

883
00:43:44,918 --> 00:43:47,718
Speaker 1: not just hits, but just one great tune after another.

884
00:43:47,838 --> 00:43:50,518
Speaker 1: You may have answered this already, but when you mentioned

885
00:43:50,518 --> 00:43:54,558
Speaker 1: Grand Funk Railroad, give me one sort of under the

886
00:43:54,678 --> 00:44:00,398
Speaker 1: radar nineteen seventies supergroup rock band that people should dig into.

887
00:44:00,518 --> 00:44:02,638
Speaker 3: For me, I'm gonna throw out their Bad Company.

888
00:44:02,998 --> 00:44:05,838
Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of got lost in the shuffle, but man,

889
00:44:06,038 --> 00:44:08,558
Speaker 1: they cranked out a lot of really good music, great

890
00:44:08,558 --> 00:44:13,038
Speaker 1: guitar riffs, as you said, a unique sound, right, All

891
00:44:13,078 --> 00:44:15,198
Speaker 1: these groups kind of stood on their own merits. They

892
00:44:15,278 --> 00:44:17,518
Speaker 1: kind of borrowed from one another. But you know, the

893
00:44:17,598 --> 00:44:21,438
Speaker 1: tune comes on, you know, hey, that's bad company. Elo

894
00:44:21,678 --> 00:44:23,918
Speaker 1: was that way as well. You know, another band to

895
00:44:23,998 --> 00:44:27,558
Speaker 1: me probably has a very unique sound. And it was

896
00:44:28,278 --> 00:44:30,198
Speaker 1: easy for some of these bands to get lost with,

897
00:44:30,398 --> 00:44:34,998
Speaker 1: you know, between Pink Floyd, led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, But man,

898
00:44:35,038 --> 00:44:36,758
Speaker 1: they hold up even years later.

899
00:44:36,838 --> 00:44:39,358
Speaker 3: So who you got, as you're under the radar? Draft

900
00:44:39,438 --> 00:44:39,838
Speaker 3: pick here?

901
00:44:40,238 --> 00:44:42,278
Speaker 2: And I mean the Almond Brothers are they under the radar?

902
00:44:42,398 --> 00:44:44,918
Speaker 2: I mean I love the Almond Brothers. Yeah, I love

903
00:44:44,958 --> 00:44:46,878
Speaker 2: the Almond Brothers. I love that country rock.

904
00:44:47,118 --> 00:44:49,278
Speaker 3: Marshall Tucker Band have some good jam bands.

905
00:44:49,438 --> 00:44:52,518
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also had new writers with the Purple Sage.

906
00:44:52,598 --> 00:44:55,078
Speaker 2: This is like this is a big Lofayette gig back then.

907
00:44:55,198 --> 00:44:57,558
Speaker 2: All these guys. But if I had to pick one

908
00:44:58,758 --> 00:45:02,078
Speaker 2: that'll get me rolling too, that, I guess it's under

909
00:45:02,078 --> 00:45:04,998
Speaker 2: the radar somewhat. Is the Almond Brothers just Jessica. I

910
00:45:05,038 --> 00:45:10,438
Speaker 2: could listen to that jam all day long. So yeah,

911
00:45:09,038 --> 00:45:12,718
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stick. I'm gonna stick with the Almond Brothers.

912
00:45:12,718 --> 00:45:16,438
Speaker 2: So you know, popularity wise. I'm sure that we know

913
00:45:16,478 --> 00:45:18,678
Speaker 2: we're talking about with that. We of course we love them,

914
00:45:18,678 --> 00:45:20,638
Speaker 2: but a lot of the younger generation, I'm not so

915
00:45:20,838 --> 00:45:24,598
Speaker 2: sure that they're totally aware who the Almond Brothers were

916
00:45:24,638 --> 00:45:27,878
Speaker 2: and what they did because their sound was spectacular for.

917
00:45:27,838 --> 00:45:30,558
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, and you know, we just to go back

918
00:45:30,598 --> 00:45:34,638
Speaker 1: to starting pitching these bands in the seventies, like starting pitchers.

919
00:45:36,438 --> 00:45:38,558
Speaker 3: They were not in a hurry to get out of there.

920
00:45:38,678 --> 00:45:41,598
Speaker 1: I mean, these songs went on four or five maybe

921
00:45:41,678 --> 00:45:46,598
Speaker 1: six minutes, right, not happening today. Nobody's gonna cut a

922
00:45:46,638 --> 00:45:50,398
Speaker 1: single because that's what they do now, that's even four minutes.

923
00:45:50,918 --> 00:45:53,318
Speaker 1: So when you're talking about the Almond Brothers and some

924
00:45:53,358 --> 00:45:55,358
Speaker 1: of these bands, man, they took their time.

925
00:45:55,958 --> 00:46:00,838
Speaker 3: They really slow cooked their product. It was great.

926
00:46:00,998 --> 00:46:02,718
Speaker 2: They had a lot to say. Man, this was pent

927
00:46:02,878 --> 00:46:05,678
Speaker 2: up inside them for years and at that time it

928
00:46:05,758 --> 00:46:10,358
Speaker 2: wasn't uh didn't necessarily have to be an AM radio

929
00:46:10,518 --> 00:46:13,398
Speaker 2: kind of a star. These these albums were different and

930
00:46:13,838 --> 00:46:17,078
Speaker 2: they were made to be devoured. I mean, you just

931
00:46:17,078 --> 00:46:18,958
Speaker 2: sat around in the develop but a new album would

932
00:46:18,998 --> 00:46:20,998
Speaker 2: come out, you get that, you'd get the plastic offe.

933
00:46:20,998 --> 00:46:23,318
Speaker 2: You'd very carefully put it down make sure that needle

934
00:46:23,398 --> 00:46:26,358
Speaker 2: came down properly, and you would just sit there and

935
00:46:27,118 --> 00:46:29,118
Speaker 2: it was like watching Netflix, I guess today that was,

936
00:46:29,198 --> 00:46:31,998
Speaker 2: but what an album was? Or Hulu. That's what we did,

937
00:46:32,198 --> 00:46:36,318
Speaker 2: and it was listening right excep with Binge, listening exactly.

938
00:46:36,838 --> 00:46:39,238
Speaker 2: And then you start talking among your buddies, like about

939
00:46:39,278 --> 00:46:43,078
Speaker 2: whatever you just had listened to all time longest one

940
00:46:43,158 --> 00:46:46,318
Speaker 2: hit wonder how about Iron Butterfly and Gota de Vida?

941
00:46:46,398 --> 00:46:50,758
Speaker 2: How about that? Was that that'll always stir you up? Man?

942
00:46:50,878 --> 00:46:51,958
Speaker 2: But that was beautiful.

943
00:46:51,958 --> 00:46:54,598
Speaker 3: And when they came out with that golden earring the

944
00:46:54,678 --> 00:46:55,798
Speaker 3: Twilight Zone.

945
00:46:55,718 --> 00:46:59,478
Speaker 2: Love Love, That's that's one of my favorites. Actually, that's right,

946
00:47:00,038 --> 00:47:02,078
Speaker 2: that's right, Love Love Building area.

947
00:47:02,278 --> 00:47:04,718
Speaker 1: Hey man, this is this really been fun. Joe playing

948
00:47:04,758 --> 00:47:07,318
Speaker 1: baseball Jeopardy with you. We'll have to do it again.

949
00:47:07,358 --> 00:47:09,678
Speaker 1: But in the meantime for Final Jeopardy, I'm going to

950
00:47:09,758 --> 00:47:12,238
Speaker 1: ask you to give us something to take us out

951
00:47:12,278 --> 00:47:14,878
Speaker 1: here in this latest edition of the Book of Joe Podcasts.

952
00:47:15,198 --> 00:47:17,758
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always staying with my guys, you know, the

953
00:47:17,798 --> 00:47:20,758
Speaker 2: people that are really dig on and this I think applies.

954
00:47:20,798 --> 00:47:22,518
Speaker 2: We're just kind of talking about it right now with

955
00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:25,398
Speaker 2: Churchill again. Sorry, love the man. Wish I'd had to

956
00:47:25,438 --> 00:47:28,198
Speaker 2: drink with him. Success is going from failure to failure

957
00:47:28,718 --> 00:47:33,518
Speaker 2: without losing your enthusiasm, right, I mean, everybody wants everything

958
00:47:33,558 --> 00:47:35,398
Speaker 2: to be perfect all the time, but it ain't that way.

959
00:47:35,638 --> 00:47:38,758
Speaker 2: It's not that way, you know, guys, we get hurt,

960
00:47:39,638 --> 00:47:42,358
Speaker 2: things will start working properly. We're thinking it too much

961
00:47:42,878 --> 00:47:44,878
Speaker 2: and it creates failure. But you got to go from

962
00:47:44,878 --> 00:47:50,318
Speaker 2: failure to failure and do not lose your enthusiasm. Enthusiasm really,

963
00:47:51,158 --> 00:47:54,198
Speaker 2: energy and enthusiasm really is what leads to success on

964
00:47:54,238 --> 00:47:56,558
Speaker 2: a high level. So I think Winston was well ahead.

965
00:47:56,318 --> 00:47:58,838
Speaker 1: Of his time and one of the great speakers of

966
00:47:58,838 --> 00:48:01,918
Speaker 1: all time, Winston Churchill. So I'm going to give you

967
00:48:01,998 --> 00:48:04,838
Speaker 1: a quote from one of my son's element Tree school teachers.

968
00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:09,158
Speaker 1: It's not from Winston's playbook, not nearly as erudite. But

969
00:48:09,918 --> 00:48:13,518
Speaker 1: mistakes are good. They're how we grow. They teach us

970
00:48:13,558 --> 00:48:16,878
Speaker 1: things we need to know. And you're absolutely right. I mean,

971
00:48:17,158 --> 00:48:19,158
Speaker 1: anybody in elved baseball can tell you about that.

972
00:48:19,518 --> 00:48:22,678
Speaker 3: Right. A game built on failure, it is makes you better.

973
00:48:22,478 --> 00:48:24,358
Speaker 2: And if you're right, if you can't handle it, then

974
00:48:24,398 --> 00:48:26,358
Speaker 2: you can't do it. You can't play the game. If

975
00:48:26,398 --> 00:48:28,518
Speaker 2: you can't handle the failure, you can't play the game.

976
00:48:28,918 --> 00:48:31,558
Speaker 1: I love the part about the enthusiasm getting through it

977
00:48:31,598 --> 00:48:32,718
Speaker 1: with enthusiasm.

978
00:48:32,918 --> 00:48:36,638
Speaker 3: Awesome. It's been a pleasure, Joe. Let's do Let's do

979
00:48:36,678 --> 00:48:38,278
Speaker 3: Baseball Jeopardy again another time.

980
00:48:38,678 --> 00:48:41,878
Speaker 2: I love it. Well done, Buddy, well done.

981
00:48:47,118 --> 00:48:50,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

982
00:48:50,558 --> 00:48:54,398
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

983
00:48:54,478 --> 00:48:57,438
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.