Speaker 1: And we're all of that, Chris, every little bit of
Speaker 1: that goes into the episode. I'm Robert Evans, are you hi?
Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards with Matt Leeby I I'm back.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling learning all this fun stuff about
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America? All, I'm you know, remember
Speaker 1: earlier when I was saying I always felt like I
Speaker 1: missed out and not being a Boy Scout. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm a feeling that that was that was God just
Speaker 1: looking out for me, because that's gonna get dark. It
Speaker 1: is it's so fucked up. Like again, not to like
Speaker 1: center my own experience like in this, but it is
Speaker 1: weird to me that, Like, again, I know, I've spent
Speaker 1: all of this time writing twenty pages on how fucked
Speaker 1: up the Boy Scouts are. I personally have like nothing
Speaker 1: but positive memories of my time in the Scouts um,
Speaker 1: and it was it was weird, like I didn't start
Speaker 1: to recognize because there was We're not talking about a
Speaker 1: lot of the other stuff that's fucked up about the
Speaker 1: Boys scaust like everyone knows like they for decades would
Speaker 1: not let you be gay or trains or whatnot. In
Speaker 1: the Boys Kicked out. If you came out, you couldn't
Speaker 1: be an atheist. You had you didn't have to be
Speaker 1: a specific religion, but you had to you had to
Speaker 1: acknowledge the existence of a higher power. There's like other
Speaker 1: stuff that they've been attacked for. And part of the
Speaker 1: reason why I'm not really focusing on that is that, like,
Speaker 1: that's bad. That is not something that would render an
Speaker 1: organization founded in nineteen ten fundamentally unsalvageable. Right, A lot
Speaker 1: of organizations that old had weird attitudes, bad attitudes towards
Speaker 1: gay people, even racist attitudes, and can change over time.
Speaker 1: Be like, well, yeah, the people who founded us believe
Speaker 1: these things. The fundamentals of our organization are good. Teaching
Speaker 1: people how to camp. We're we we've we've grown that all.
Speaker 1: I think that the Boy Scouts could have grown past,
Speaker 1: you know, the anti LGBT thing, and they have started
Speaker 1: accepting kids who are gay and trans. I think they
Speaker 1: could have grown past the restriction to just boys because
Speaker 1: now they do accept girls. They could have grown past
Speaker 1: a number of the problematic things. But you cannot grow
Speaker 1: past is enabling the rape of tens of thousands of boys.
Speaker 1: That that cannot be redeemed. That's the thing that seems systemic.
Speaker 1: It's one of it's it's one of those things like, yeah,
Speaker 1: an organization found in nineteen ten. People who made it
Speaker 1: probably had some weird beliefs on race and gender, and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can, you can. The organization I think can move
Speaker 1: past that as long as it acknowledges the flaws of
Speaker 1: its past and it confronts them head on, which I'm
Speaker 1: not saying the Boy Scouts did, like they delayed way
Speaker 1: too long performing on that stuff. But I think that
Speaker 1: we're like the thing that makes them unsalvageable. The reason
Speaker 1: I think the Boy Scats just needs to be destroyed
Speaker 1: as an organization is the mass rape of children. Like
Speaker 1: that's you can't, there's no no getting past that, moving
Speaker 1: on a fair that's a fair problem, Yeah, it's Yeah.
Speaker 1: If not for the mass rape of children, I feel
Speaker 1: like would be you know, an organization that could make
Speaker 1: do some reform, move past it's past. Yeah, But it's
Speaker 1: that little thing where there was a master of children,
Speaker 1: the tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands of boys raped. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and thus also creating a cycle of abuse and
Speaker 1: predation due to the nature of you know, early childhood
Speaker 1: sexual violence like that alone probably grounds. Yeah, they should
Speaker 1: destroy the organization. I don't feel differently about the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church in fairness, Um it is weird, like I can say,
Speaker 1: because then I grew up very conservative. As I said,
Speaker 1: I said a number of times if I had been
Speaker 1: like sixteen in two fourteen, I might have wound up
Speaker 1: like a right for a while. Um, I was really
Speaker 1: right wing. Um one of like the first cracks in
Speaker 1: the armors. When I was I'm not sure if I
Speaker 1: was seventeen or eighteen. I think it was my senior
Speaker 1: year of high school. It was an academic to Cathalon,
Speaker 1: which is like a nerd thing, and we had our
Speaker 1: own little like classroom. If you were on the team,
Speaker 1: you could hang out in that classroom in between classes
Speaker 1: or during lunch, which as a nerdy kid who just
Speaker 1: wanted to read his Warhammer books, that was nice to do.
Speaker 1: And so I'm in there one day with another kid
Speaker 1: on the team, um, who was in the Boy Scouts.
Speaker 1: We were in different troops, but he was, he was,
Speaker 1: and he was. I think I actually quit the because
Speaker 1: I quit the Boy Scouts at like sixteen, fifteen or sixteen,
Speaker 1: he was still in the Boy Scouts and was like
Speaker 1: either eighteen or almost eighteen. It was very close to
Speaker 1: getting his eagle. And you know, he and I were friends.
Speaker 1: We were sitting in the classroom one day and kind
Speaker 1: of in the middle of just sort of like we're
Speaker 1: both reading separate books quietly alone in this room, he
Speaker 1: just looks up at me and tells me that he's gay.
Speaker 1: And this is the first person I ever met who
Speaker 1: like I knew was gay, who would like that I
Speaker 1: had talked to me about it. Um and um. I said, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: And and he immediately after that because it just like
Speaker 1: I think he just had to tell somebody just burst
Speaker 1: out of him immediately after they said, please don't tell anybody,
Speaker 1: Like the most important thing in the world to me
Speaker 1: is finishing my eagle Scout, is like getting my eagle Scout,
Speaker 1: like and they won't let me. And that was that
Speaker 1: was like for me a moment of left like that's
Speaker 1: really fucked up, actually that this kid's this kid who
Speaker 1: clearly loves the Boy Scouts, is dedicated to like what
Speaker 1: this organization stands for, is terrified of being kicked out
Speaker 1: for just like something like it was just very obvious
Speaker 1: in that moment, like, oh, yeah, that's clearly not a choice.
Speaker 1: Like the way he told me about it was just
Speaker 1: like this he had to let somebody know, is this
Speaker 1: thing that was? I don't know. That was a moment
Speaker 1: for me. Um, and like, uh, just a, I know that.
Speaker 1: That's when I first started to think really critically about
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts as an organization. Um, because again, I
Speaker 1: grew up in this right wing you know bubble um,
Speaker 1: And I guess I think it's it's like that one
Speaker 1: way or another for a lot of people, like you
Speaker 1: live in this kind of ideological bubble until you like
Speaker 1: meet someone who's you care about, whose life experience contradicts
Speaker 1: the things that you just never thought about before. Oh
Speaker 1: I'm wrong about some really important ship. Yeah. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: just takes that, you know, having an actual one on
Speaker 1: one or just a human experience to get you outside
Speaker 1: of like kind of the the strict dogmatism of your
Speaker 1: like inherited ideology where you're just like, you know, of
Speaker 1: course I'm a libertarian. My dad's a libertarian and he
Speaker 1: raised me to be libertarian, you know. And then uh,
Speaker 1: and then you you know, you live life and you
Speaker 1: meet people who you know, in which the government was
Speaker 1: actually uh a necessary entity in their life, and you're
Speaker 1: like a ship. Like you know, people who just grow
Speaker 1: up in a bubble. I think as soon as they
Speaker 1: have that you know, bubble bursts a little bit, then
Speaker 1: they can kind of move past whatever you know, do
Speaker 1: ye ideology they have Yep. It is that thing where
Speaker 1: like the Republican politicians who have like a life experience
Speaker 1: that doesn't fit in with conservatism are like the ones
Speaker 1: who have these very public like John McCain arch Republican
Speaker 1: and everything but torture because he was tortured. It was
Speaker 1: very consistently like, no, we can't, this is not okay. Uh,
Speaker 1: Dick Cheney arch Republican and everything but gay rights because
Speaker 1: the daughters gay, and he's like yeah, um, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's just how people are, I guess. So
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America began operating what they called
Speaker 1: an ineligible volunteer file system in nineteen nineteen, so they
Speaker 1: did impel still alive when they this is like they
Speaker 1: and this is not just even primary, this is not
Speaker 1: primarily about sexual assault. This is obviously You've got this
Speaker 1: growing organization, a bunch of men join it, and for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, they do not meet the standards
Speaker 1: that the b s A does have for adult volunteers.
Speaker 1: And they're not screening people, but people who do the
Speaker 1: job and are bad at it. And I think most
Speaker 1: of these people again, are not molesting kids. They're like
Speaker 1: they get some kids killed on a hike or some ship. Right,
Speaker 1: Like they're they're irresponsible, you know, like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ways to be bad at being a scat past.
Speaker 1: You know, you're taking kids into the woods, a number
Speaker 1: of things can go awry. Um usually pedophilia isn't the
Speaker 1: first problem when you're stranging alone in the woods with
Speaker 1: an adult, but you would think, yeah, and most of
Speaker 1: the men in the ineligible volunteer files had not purposefully
Speaker 1: harmed a child. They had just like funked up in
Speaker 1: some way, probably some way that's like still deplorable, but
Speaker 1: like not they're not trying to harm anybody. A subset, though,
Speaker 1: of the ineligible volunteer list are men who had been
Speaker 1: caught or at least accused of molesting the children in
Speaker 1: their care. This subset of the Ineligible Volunteer system were
Speaker 1: dubbed the p files or perversion files. Yeah. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: thought they would go with yeah yeah, not pedophile, pederist.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a lot of rape. Yeah yeah. So
Speaker 1: this starts in like the twin problematic files, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: problematic So when Maiden peals alive, they do like attempt
Speaker 1: to and again they don't attempt to by screening people beforehand,
Speaker 1: but they do attempt to be like, oh, we should
Speaker 1: if a guy gets kicked out for raping a kid,
Speaker 1: we should probably put his name in a file somewhere.
Speaker 1: We should we should probably write this down. Which is
Speaker 1: the minimum, the barest minimum. I just want to remember
Speaker 1: his name. You have a list of the guy, as
Speaker 1: you who sucked the kids in our care? If I
Speaker 1: can also get their phone numbers, just so we can
Speaker 1: talk and just see if they have photos exactly? Do
Speaker 1: you want to go to the lake? Oh, Biden pal So.
Speaker 1: In nineteen the list was computerized, but there's still existed
Speaker 1: a hard copy, and there is still one today, which
Speaker 1: reportedly fills fifteen file cabinets at the b s A
Speaker 1: headquarters in Irving, Texas. Only a handful of men at
Speaker 1: the very top of the organization can access them. In
Speaker 1: the b S as the Boy Scouts of America. So
Speaker 1: I should know when we talk about this, this is
Speaker 1: all focused on the b s A, which is not
Speaker 1: technically the organization Biden Pal founded, because it's very decentralized.
Speaker 1: There's like the different countries, they're different like organizations right
Speaker 1: effectively kind of corporations almost um. And they're all kind
Speaker 1: of like linked and related to each other, and they
Speaker 1: do gamberally people get together from different countries. But in
Speaker 1: the b s A is made in the image of
Speaker 1: what Biden Pal talks about. I'm sure there is a
Speaker 1: lot on like abuses in like England and great in
Speaker 1: the UK and in like other countries. The vast majority
Speaker 1: of the the the documentation on abuse within the Boy
Speaker 1: Scouts is within the b s A. And so that's
Speaker 1: what we're focusing on here today. Um. So, for decades
Speaker 1: the files were either entirely unknown or at most a
Speaker 1: rumor to those outside the organization. They would occasionally make appearances,
Speaker 1: though by the time Lord Biden Powell died in nineteen
Speaker 1: forty one, there had already been multiple cases of child
Speaker 1: molesters who had been caught and convicted for what they've
Speaker 1: done as Boy Scout leaders. This pattern continued up to
Speaker 1: the present day, and when those cases would end in
Speaker 1: criminal charges and trials, files on the perpetrator would often
Speaker 1: be admitted into evidence, usually under seal. This most frequently
Speaker 1: happened in the latter half of the twentieth and early
Speaker 1: twenty first century, when boys and groups of boys began
Speaker 1: to allege that what had happened to them, the abuse
Speaker 1: they had suffered, was not an isolated incident, but was
Speaker 1: instead the result of a pattern of abuse within the organization.
Speaker 1: The files contain often harrowing firsthand accounts from victims, like
Speaker 1: this interview with a ten year old scout in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy to the victim of a sexual assault by Georgia
Speaker 1: troop leader Samuel Max Deboa Jr. Quote, I was crying
Speaker 1: and I reached around and hit Max in the face
Speaker 1: and said I was going to quit the troop and
Speaker 1: tell my daddy. Then we heard the others coming back
Speaker 1: and Max said, put your pants back on. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like one of the less harrowing ones. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna read in detail, but we will discuss
Speaker 1: what happened, like read detailed accounts of kids getting molested here,
Speaker 1: but you do need to know like what broadly occurred,
Speaker 1: you know cases that is important. Um, the p files
Speaker 1: at least were something. Um, so it's better than certainly
Speaker 1: doing nothing at all. But as a barrier to the
Speaker 1: assault of boys in care of the Boy Scouts of America,
Speaker 1: they were incredibly porous. To illustrate this, let's start with
Speaker 1: an illustrative case of abuse among the Boy Scouts from
Speaker 1: a little more than a generation after Baden Powell's death.
Speaker 1: Stephen Field was a troop leader in southern California. The
Speaker 1: B s A started investigating him in nineteen seventy one
Speaker 1: after a scout in Santa Monica reported that he had
Speaker 1: been sexually abused by Field. A troop committee which included parents,
Speaker 1: B s A officials, and a psychiatrist. So that's good, right,
Speaker 1: You're bringing like, not just parents but a professional in Um,
Speaker 1: that's a positive way to look at things, right. Uh
Speaker 1: this I feel this feels like the doctor thing for
Speaker 1: last episode. I don't trust that. I'm quite so this
Speaker 1: this committee is convened and they look at the evidence
Speaker 1: and they conclude that the story was truth. This kid
Speaker 1: had been abused. What Field had done with sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: Their investigation, in fact, found not only to abuse this kid,
Speaker 1: but he had a pattern of what could credibly be
Speaker 1: called criminally sexual behavior, including forcing his boy scouts to
Speaker 1: play strip poker and run around naked after losing games,
Speaker 1: which is not ever like there's there's that's not even
Speaker 1: like a gray air. Yeah, strip poker is not really
Speaker 1: inside the boy scouts milieu, you know. And also like
Speaker 1: running around naked is not part of it. That's never
Speaker 1: you know, you can play well, I mean it kind
Speaker 1: of is from the start actually, but it shouldn't have been.
Speaker 1: We're just finding new and clever ways to get kids
Speaker 1: to run around naked. Yeah, And it's what it is
Speaker 1: when we talked about like naked swimming, running around naked,
Speaker 1: Like I believe very strongly that like nudities, there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong or inherently sexual about nudity. It be like this
Speaker 1: thing where the idea that like people are doing things
Speaker 1: naked is like lascivious. Clearly Baden Powell and a number
Speaker 1: like the men and like found it lascivious, and so
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Like, yeah, it ended up being one
Speaker 1: of their favorite things. Yeah, that's an issue. That's going
Speaker 1: to be an issue, you know. Um yeah, Um, So
Speaker 1: they find out. This guy not only molests this kid,
Speaker 1: but he has a history of very like criminal. I
Speaker 1: suspect it as illegal to make children play strip poker.
Speaker 1: Like I think that is a crime. Not a law knower,
Speaker 1: but that seems crimy. It's I don't know the exact number, shoot,
Speaker 1: but like that seems not legal. It seems like like
Speaker 1: a thing you would use. That seems like a thing
Speaker 1: we don't allow. Like I happen to think that's against
Speaker 1: some law. It's got to be in there somewhere, probably
Speaker 1: the delinquency of a miner or something. I don't know,
Speaker 1: um whatever, some something not right about that, um. But
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts don't report him to the police. They
Speaker 1: don't report him to anyone. In fact, they remove him,
Speaker 1: they kick him out of the Boy Scouts. But the
Speaker 1: only report they make about this is from a regional
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts employee who fills out a form on Field
Speaker 1: and sends it to headquarters, and that form is placed
Speaker 1: in the p files. So that's all that happens. National
Speaker 1: officials told the regional official that this meant that Fields
Speaker 1: would never be able to work in or volunteer for
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts again. And yet from a report in
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times quote. He was involved with several
Speaker 1: Southern California troops over the next seventeen years. According to
Speaker 1: his file. Contacted recently by The Times, Field explained that
Speaker 1: he failed a light detector test required by the Santa
Speaker 1: Monica Troop committee. He was encouraged to transfer to another
Speaker 1: troop in the city, where he served as scout master
Speaker 1: for four years. They sent him he fails a light
Speaker 1: detector and they're like, you just gotta go to another troupe. Bro,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what the fuck? Just do what they
Speaker 1: do at the corner liquor store when someone has fucking
Speaker 1: put a picture of him up on the wall. What
Speaker 1: a picture on the wall? Just say not that guy.
Speaker 1: That's It's so easy, dude, Oh my god, your job
Speaker 1: is protecting children. Show at least as much care as
Speaker 1: a liquor store clerk over a bounced check. Like fuck,
Speaker 1: So the fucking Field tells the Los Angeles Times. They
Speaker 1: said it had all been cleared up with the scouts,
Speaker 1: Like I don't how do you clear this out? In Valencia,
Speaker 1: he joined his brother in law's troop, but left after
Speaker 1: a parent intercepted a love letter he had written to
Speaker 1: a Scout. The file shows. At one point, the file
Speaker 1: says Field was caught watching pornography with naked scouts in
Speaker 1: his jacuzzi. Jesus, fuck one. Seventeen years of this, come on,
Speaker 1: seventeen years. This isn't like, you know. Twenty years later
Speaker 1: he changed his name and his identity and moved across
Speaker 1: the country and he just stuck his way into it. No,
Speaker 1: he just shows up. One group is like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: failed the I promise not to molest kids part of
Speaker 1: the light detector. Here, go to this other group. Bring
Speaker 1: your jackuzy with you. You're out of the Silmar chapter
Speaker 1: of the Scouts. And you know what Glendale's recruiting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, super fucked up. Like again, there were
Speaker 1: in it's height, like seven million boys in the Boy Scouts.
Speaker 1: Some of them were always and I'm not being callous here,
Speaker 1: it is inevitable in any population of seven million boys,
Speaker 1: some of them will get molested by adults. Right. The
Speaker 1: fact that this is a thing that happens is not
Speaker 1: inherently the fall of the Boy Scouts, But as this
Speaker 1: example shows, they are criminally irresponsible in taking any attempts
Speaker 1: to stop it. That's the problem. It's not that like
Speaker 1: there are some bad apples. It's that they're kind of
Speaker 1: like the cops. They just like they enable the bad apples. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like they literally have a basket of like with
Speaker 1: a with a foundation of poison and they're going on,
Speaker 1: some of these apples are bad. It's like you're poisoned
Speaker 1: the best you poured cyanide into an apple basket and
Speaker 1: then you're pissed in it. This is directly your fault. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: among other things, that story is why I think Jacuzi
Speaker 1: ownership should require a license. Um. But besides, that's another
Speaker 1: two part. Now, despite the fact that this guy had
Speaker 1: repeatedly engaged I think we can agree it's pretty outrageous
Speaker 1: and public abuse of children. The s A National office
Speaker 1: didn't realize he'd snuck back into the organization until nine again,
Speaker 1: almost twenty years, and they only realized this because another
Speaker 1: local scouting official reported that Steve Field, who was at
Speaker 1: that point chairman of a local troop committee, had been
Speaker 1: arrested for masturbating in front of a child. So he
Speaker 1: doesn't get kicked out by the boy Scouts, he gets
Speaker 1: arrested by the cops, and a local scout is like Hey,
Speaker 1: you guys should know this guy. Turns out he was
Speaker 1: a child molester. This local official doesn't know this guy
Speaker 1: as a record, but he sends this in to report
Speaker 1: this guy. And the people who run the PEA files
Speaker 1: are like, oh, Steve Field, it's the same as Stephen Field.
Speaker 1: How could we have known? Because ingenious criminal mind. They're
Speaker 1: just like the cop comes and goes like, oh, this
Speaker 1: you know this guy he's got arrested, you know, for masturbation,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, you mean creepy Steve. Steve the rapist.
Speaker 1: Steve the rapist is yeah, he's been doing that. He's
Speaker 1: been doing that for a while. Why we call him
Speaker 1: creepy Steve? Yeah, wacky Steve don't leave alone with your
Speaker 1: kids anyway, is in charge of the kids. So, for
Speaker 1: what it's worth. Once the Sheriff's department actually got involved
Speaker 1: with Steve's case, which should have fallen into their lap
Speaker 1: around twenty years earlier, they launch a serious investigation. Um
Speaker 1: and again all of the police aside. One of the
Speaker 1: things they have a better record of taking seriously, although
Speaker 1: not a perfect one, because a lot of cops are
Speaker 1: child molesters, generally detectives who find out the kids are
Speaker 1: being raped, are like, well, this is probably important. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's just the thing. Even if you're a fucking cop.
Speaker 1: Most people you hear a child as being abused and
Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, we gotta about this. Yeah, most cops, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously a cab, but not a you know,
Speaker 1: can all cops students deliberately enabled child molestation whatever that
Speaker 1: they hear about this guy And generally this is the
Speaker 1: case like twenty years in like with these abusive adults.
Speaker 1: And that's when finally ship happens. This guy gets arrested,
Speaker 1: and it's because like the b s A can't hide
Speaker 1: it anymore. Um. Child pornography was found in fields as
Speaker 1: home of photos he'd taken of nude boys. Nude boy
Speaker 1: scouts as far back as fifteen years ago are found.
Speaker 1: And when the cops realize this guy has been praying
Speaker 1: on boy scouts for more than a decade, they asked
Speaker 1: the National Office, you can have a file on this guy,
Speaker 1: and the B s A sends the p file for
Speaker 1: for Fields to or for Field to them, but they
Speaker 1: send it along with a request. And here's the a
Speaker 1: cab part. Because the cops abide by this request. We
Speaker 1: hope you will use this information with discretion. Since we
Speaker 1: have tried to maintain our files, they cannot be subpoenaed
Speaker 1: in any legal action. Wow. If again, if you're of
Speaker 1: cops are better people than they are, if you're a
Speaker 1: decent person, my first question would be, this guy raped kids.
Speaker 1: Why don't you want this subpoena? Like why why why? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: And any why are you not like throwing your doors
Speaker 1: open to to this, Like why why not let this be?
Speaker 1: He's raping kids? Like God, I mean, so the cops
Speaker 1: they abided by just an arbitrary like, oh, if you
Speaker 1: could do us a favor, and like they're probably all
Speaker 1: boy scouts, a lot of cops, Like fucking half of
Speaker 1: congress people were boy Scouts, Like have congressmen or whatever,
Speaker 1: like a huge percentage, Like all almost all of our
Speaker 1: recent presidents have been either boy Scouts or equal Scouts.
Speaker 1: Like it actually does mean a lot to a lot
Speaker 1: of it. So like there's a story that could have
Speaker 1: gone badly from my childhood. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: I think like thirteen or fourteen, I would go every Saturday,
Speaker 1: I would go with my friends to a hobby story
Speaker 1: and we would play Warhammer, and then we at one
Speaker 1: point started wanting to play D and D, which I
Speaker 1: started playing in the Scouts, and like the people who
Speaker 1: we found to play with us were this guy was
Speaker 1: like nineteen at the time, he just graduated high school
Speaker 1: and was in college. And a dude who was almost thirty, um,
Speaker 1: who's like an engineer, and that dude invites us all like, well,
Speaker 1: on Saturday night since the hobby shop closes like five,
Speaker 1: just come over to my house, um, and we'll all
Speaker 1: play D and D until like midnight. And like my
Speaker 1: parents here this and they're like, okay, well that's a
Speaker 1: little quite. He's like almost thirty, like this concerns us.
Speaker 1: And this other guys in a old too, but both
Speaker 1: of them were Eagle Scouts. So my parents were like okay,
Speaker 1: and it was like they were like there was fine,
Speaker 1: like nothing, like these people were huge positive influences on me.
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to like I'm trying. They were
Speaker 1: both very positive parts. But you like that's why my
Speaker 1: parents trusted them as they were right. There's an intrinsic
Speaker 1: intrinsic trust and like, oh, these people are part of
Speaker 1: this organization that I have nothing but my dad was
Speaker 1: an Eagle Scout you know. Um. Yeah. So anyway, just
Speaker 1: culturally this, I think this is part of why the
Speaker 1: cops play ball with the B s A for so
Speaker 1: long and don't make more of an issue about this,
Speaker 1: is that like a lot of them were probably boys
Speaker 1: get someone. They were probably trip leaders, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of like cop kids and stuff
Speaker 1: in Boy Scouts when I was in the Scouts. Um, obviously,
Speaker 1: but I mean it's it's kids getting fucked. It's like
Speaker 1: that's why. Yes, yeah, But I think from the cops
Speaker 1: pursuit was like, well, we're getting this guy, and we
Speaker 1: don't like to we don't want to tarnish because their
Speaker 1: cops like they protect organizations from shitty They're like cops
Speaker 1: are often horrified at things other cops do. They just
Speaker 1: cover it up because they believe in the institution. I think.
Speaker 1: So I think they're they're they're willing to do that
Speaker 1: for the Boy Scouts, but they have so much room
Speaker 1: for It's just it's like it's one of things. It's
Speaker 1: like not just sending it, like I'm just explaining the
Speaker 1: thought process, and I think it's just thinking about it.
Speaker 1: It's like if I'm a cop, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna back up. All these cops don't
Speaker 1: matter fucking what. And then someone throws out another organization like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, this is like the rape organization, Like al right,
Speaker 1: I have room in my Laurel compass for one more
Speaker 1: organization to defend. It is worth noting that at this
Speaker 1: point they're not thinking about this is the rape organization.
Speaker 1: This is the seventies, this is the Boy Scouts. This
Speaker 1: we don't want to let another this is already terrible.
Speaker 1: We don't want to also defame this beautiful organization. And
Speaker 1: you know it does a lot of good at the
Speaker 1: same time. Um, it is not until I think the
Speaker 1: first really big academic quality work on sexual abuse within
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts is that book we've been quoting from
Speaker 1: Scouts on it, which we'll have LinkedIn. The whole book
Speaker 1: is available online right now. Is published in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: four by guy named Patrick boyle Um. And it was,
Speaker 1: I mean it was. I don't think it did super
Speaker 1: well at the time. Obviously, I think he got a
Speaker 1: lot of ship for publishing it, but it's not a
Speaker 1: fun read of the heroes in this story one of
Speaker 1: them has to be Patrick Boyle for being in like,
Speaker 1: people need to know that this is a systemic problem,
Speaker 1: and it was not until three or four years ago
Speaker 1: that it became mainstream knowledge how systemic the problem was.
Speaker 1: He's well the curve, yeah, because I I started hearing
Speaker 1: about this stuff with the Yeah yeah, and the fact
Speaker 1: that this book came out ye is crazy to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And you know what else is ahead of
Speaker 1: the curve is the products, the products and services that
Speaker 1: support this podcast, way ahead of the curve. The Patrick
Speaker 1: Boils of their day. Good say, Okay, we're back. So
Speaker 1: Fields or Field gets arrested for abusing two thirteen year
Speaker 1: old boys and sentence to twelve years in prison when
Speaker 1: the l A. Times found him. Because he's out of
Speaker 1: prison by the time, these l. A Times articles are
Speaker 1: very recent, we'll talk about why. And I'm reading from
Speaker 1: a bunch of different l. A. Times articles because they
Speaker 1: have done as far as I can find, the best
Speaker 1: journalistic reporting on on abuse within the boy scouts. Um So,
Speaker 1: when they find this guy, right, because he's he's out
Speaker 1: of prison now he's working, I think he's a fucking
Speaker 1: lawyer or something. Um No, might have been in finance.
Speaker 1: I forget exactly, but they find him. He's like out
Speaker 1: in free and like working, and they interviewed him and
Speaker 1: he admitted to abusing the kids he'd been convicted of abusing,
Speaker 1: but the night allegations that he'd abused any other kids,
Speaker 1: even though absolutely of course, but the kids. Yeah, The
Speaker 1: Times informed him that he'd been on a blacklist since
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one in the Boy Scouts. And when they said, like,
Speaker 1: did you know the Boy Scouts had a file blacklisting you?
Speaker 1: He told them like, no, I had no idea. That's
Speaker 1: surprising because I was able to stay in the Boy
Speaker 1: Scouts for years. Yeah, the Boy Scouts. The child molester
Speaker 1: told them it's like a no fly list. If your
Speaker 1: name is on the no fly list, you shouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to get on a plane. Like the pedophile is
Speaker 1: baffled by how easy it was for him to get
Speaker 1: back into the Boy Scouts, Like, yeah, they really shouldn't
Speaker 1: have allowed this. You're not wrong, pedophile, But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not wrong. This was like a miscarriage of justice
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, as the guy who raped those kids,
Speaker 1: you have adequately accurately identified the issue or molested, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know, like so yeah, and it is that
Speaker 1: really Like that goes to show how fucked up the
Speaker 1: B s A is because when the pedophile your organization
Speaker 1: allowed you repeatedly harmed children in your care, throw shade
Speaker 1: on you for your irresponsibility and letting him in. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a that's an epic funk up like you
Speaker 1: have failed so comprehensively. I don't have a word for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a. There's a signal there. Yeah. Yeah. That Times
Speaker 1: article goes on to tell the story of Scout Master
Speaker 1: Allan C. Dunlap of Fresno, California, who was arrest to
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three on suspicion of having abused several children.
Speaker 1: Done Lap pled guilty to four counts of molestation and
Speaker 1: was committed to a psychiatric hospital. The Scouts created yet
Speaker 1: another P file on him. Thirteen years later, in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighties six, Dunlap was out of the hospital and registered
Speaker 1: is a Scout volunteer in Brian, Texas. It isn't yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be saying that a lot, my friend. It
Speaker 1: does not appear that anyone even checked the blacklist before
Speaker 1: registering him, which gets at the chief problem with the
Speaker 1: whole system. The B s A actually did a pretty
Speaker 1: good job of documenting guys who had been caught or
Speaker 1: accused of sexual assault. Right, they're very thorough in like
Speaker 1: when stuff gets in they do put it all on
Speaker 1: this file. But there's still no I can remember Baden
Speaker 1: Powell doesn't want there to be a big barrier to entry.
Speaker 1: There's for most of this period, the sixties, seventies, eighties,
Speaker 1: there's no real screening process. Most again, as we said,
Speaker 1: like that one Scout troop had like they chose to
Speaker 1: do like a polygraph test, which polygraphs are problematic, and
Speaker 1: obviously they just sent him to another troops. So like
Speaker 1: it there there are there are though it's worth it
Speaker 1: an individual because it's a very decentralized organization. Some troops
Speaker 1: do have really good, like you know, uh policies in
Speaker 1: order to screen people, but nationally there's nothing, and this
Speaker 1: blacklist only a handful of people at the top have
Speaker 1: access to it, and they don't run every name through
Speaker 1: it like there's now when a guy joins a Scout
Speaker 1: troop and fucking Texas they don't, or in fucking like
Speaker 1: I don't know, Maine, they don't send his name into
Speaker 1: the national file to scan it. They do nothing. They
Speaker 1: only find out afterwards, so it's useless. It's fucking other
Speaker 1: than like as documentation that a lot of guys are
Speaker 1: repeatedly molesting kids in the Boy Scouts. It's it's just
Speaker 1: a fun way to get a nice list going, but
Speaker 1: there's nothing. It does nothing to protect children are very close.
Speaker 1: The boys goes, well, no, there's actually this X number
Speaker 1: of men that we stopped because they were in the
Speaker 1: blacklist and someone recognized it. Not to say it never happened,
Speaker 1: but like clearly it was not an effective protecting system
Speaker 1: and they knew it at the time. UM so yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. Uh So after this guy gets you know this,
Speaker 1: this dude is arrested and kicked out of the Scouts
Speaker 1: and seventy three after abusing some children. Thirteen years later,
Speaker 1: he becomes a Scout volunteer in Bryan, Texas, um and
Speaker 1: he immediately gets back to sexually assaulting children. He was
Speaker 1: eventually caught and pled guilty to abusing a nine year
Speaker 1: old cub Scout. He was sentenced to twelve years in prison.
Speaker 1: A local official learned this and called the National bs
Speaker 1: A office to report Dunlap so he could be added
Speaker 1: to the p files. And the National Office realized already
Speaker 1: had a file on the guy. They added, here's what
Speaker 1: they do. Actually, it's even worse than that. They just
Speaker 1: add a note to his file for words convicted again, Dad,
Speaker 1: child molestation, Jesus Christ. Come on, guys, attendum he done
Speaker 1: it again, He done it again. We might have a problem.
Speaker 1: D This is all pretty bad, but it gets worst worse.
Speaker 1: Both of those actually the l A Times rites quote.
Speaker 1: In some instances, the Boy Scouts of America chose to
Speaker 1: give alleged molesters a second chance. In deposition, Ernst, then
Speaker 1: keeper of the national file, testified that alleged abusers were
Speaker 1: given probation, which required periodic updates on the person's behavior,
Speaker 1: only if evidence of molestation was quote extremely weak. An
Speaker 1: individual's confidential file was generally destroyed after probation was completed,
Speaker 1: but the file sometimes survived when the men went on
Speaker 1: to abuse again. Several of those cases suggests the initial
Speaker 1: evidence of abuse was strong. Again. The b s A
Speaker 1: policy is air on the side of believing the child
Speaker 1: molester when he denies having molests a kid. Oh my god, God, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you could find there's there have
Speaker 1: to be statistically millions of people a couple of cases
Speaker 1: of kids who lied because they were angry at it,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it happened. Umatistically, we have thousands, like hundred,
Speaker 1: minimum hundreds and hundreds and and probably like by some accounts,
Speaker 1: thousands of cases of people molesting kids repeatedly within the
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts like there, but again they are on the
Speaker 1: side of protecting the adult, not children. In their entire
Speaker 1: job should be to protect these children, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's literally what their their job is. It's like teaching
Speaker 1: them how to fend for themselves. I mean, my my
Speaker 1: scout master, who was I mean, he was a great
Speaker 1: Scout master. He did something horrible for Raytheon that we
Speaker 1: don't know entirely what, Like a bunch of the guys
Speaker 1: who taught me at a camp were all Raytheon engineers.
Speaker 1: It's like plain oh like that's but anyway, he, like
Speaker 1: his attitude was, my only job is to stop kids
Speaker 1: from dying. So like, you go out there, he'll teach
Speaker 1: you to He would teach us anything we wanted to learn.
Speaker 1: He would help us learn, but he didn't do anything
Speaker 1: for you. So if you were miserable for days, if
Speaker 1: you funked up, if your ship got soaked, if you
Speaker 1: like lit your tent on fire, like you can camp
Speaker 1: out under the stars or whatever, Like, my only job
Speaker 1: is to stop you from dying, because it's about self reliance. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's still very He took safety, like our physical health,
Speaker 1: very seriously, and that's not what the Boy Scouts are,
Speaker 1: protecting the adults above the children, like the organization nationally.
Speaker 1: And again, I had a lot of great Scout leaders who,
Speaker 1: while they may have been war criminals, UM, always put
Speaker 1: the safety of the kids in the in the Boy
Speaker 1: Scout American kids. I didn't know what raytheon was at
Speaker 1: the time, not the Iraqi kids. I mean, good, God
Speaker 1: only knows what they were actually like working on. UM.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can only care about so many kids, Robert,
Speaker 1: Yeah you can look um so uh. For an example
Speaker 1: of how the Boy Scouts would protect and give second
Speaker 1: chances to child molesters, let's talk about Mark F. Bum Garner.
Speaker 1: He was a twenty one year old assistant Scout master
Speaker 1: in North Carolina. In September nine, he was at Camp
Speaker 1: Shield helping to manage a camp with several other adult leaders.
Speaker 1: Late one night, after most scouts and adults had went
Speaker 1: to bed, he struck up a conversation with another boy.
Speaker 1: I think they're just like sitting around a camp fire
Speaker 1: and they talk for a while. Everybody else goes to sleep,
Speaker 1: and quite suddenly, when they're alone, bum Gardner sticks his
Speaker 1: hand into the boy's pants and fondles his genitals. The
Speaker 1: boy tells him to stop, so bum Garner says, the
Speaker 1: cartilage in your penis is similar to your nose, and
Speaker 1: I can break it Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, So I mean,
Speaker 1: like I try not to get on the whole, like
Speaker 1: you know, vengeance side of things. But just shoot that guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just just shoot that guy. We don't need that guy.
Speaker 1: Kill that Yeah, just kill that It's just like, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you fantasize about a righteous kill, you know, yeah
Speaker 1: that would yeah, just just a little little little shallow
Speaker 1: grave in the woods, you know, just like just the
Speaker 1: planet benefits a little bit this one murder. I think
Speaker 1: when you threaten to break a child's penis when your hand,
Speaker 1: if he tells about you molesting him, you don't deserve
Speaker 1: to live that anymore. That's that's the that's the end
Speaker 1: of your right to exist, I argue it is my opinion.
Speaker 1: It's funny because, like before this podcast, I never thought
Speaker 1: there were levels of pedophilia in which I would that.
Speaker 1: That's a high one, right, yeah, that's one. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: he's like, I mean, yeah, pedophilia is evil, but he's
Speaker 1: like evil and evil. Yeah, he's I think the pedophiles
Speaker 1: are disgusted by that. Like he could not Yeah anyway
Speaker 1: like that. He that's like the worst level probably of
Speaker 1: pedophilia that I can imagine, is that's that kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's the top of the pedophile pyramid. Um. So,
Speaker 1: after this horrifying experience, the kid went to his father,
Speaker 1: who reported this to the Boy Scouts rather than to
Speaker 1: the police. The b s A investigated the matter, and,
Speaker 1: after what the National Office described as a considerable discussion,
Speaker 1: decided that bum Garner deserved a second chance. Of all
Speaker 1: would be it would be still bad, but different if
Speaker 1: was like, well he was caught, um, you know, massaging
Speaker 1: a boy in his jacuzzi and the boy's shirt was off,
Speaker 1: and like whatever, like that's bad to to let that
Speaker 1: go on. He threatened to break a child's penis. Give
Speaker 1: a second chance, to that. Jesus. Fuck. Yeah. The reason
Speaker 1: why is because bum Garner was an Eagle Scout and
Speaker 1: the son of the pastor whose church sponsored the troop.
Speaker 1: Yeah there it is, Yeah, there it is. So he
Speaker 1: kept working for the Boy Scouts, spending time in close
Speaker 1: proximity with children absolutely unmonitored. He was arrested several months
Speaker 1: later for sexually abusing two Scouts during a camp out.
Speaker 1: He pled guilty and was expelled by the National Office,
Speaker 1: who added yet another name to the p files six
Speaker 1: years later. Oh yeah, you thought this was done. You
Speaker 1: thought we were done with bum Garner. Come on. Six
Speaker 1: years later, bum Garner gets out of jail and back
Speaker 1: into the Boy Scouts. He moves from North Carolina to
Speaker 1: Virginia and he becomes assistant District commissioner to the Fairfax
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. This was nineteen eighty four. It was two
Speaker 1: years later, nineteen six before the National organization realized that
Speaker 1: this peedoophile had gotten back in. They didn't find it
Speaker 1: out on their own. They was convicted, convicted pedophile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they only find out that he's gotten back in
Speaker 1: because he gets convicted again. He gets caught sexually battering
Speaker 1: two boys and sentenced to six years in prison. Just like,
Speaker 1: just how could we have known? What? How could we
Speaker 1: have known? Every single time? This is the Los Angeles
Speaker 1: Times continues. Probation was also given to Floyd David Slusher,
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old stafford a Boy Scout camp in
Speaker 1: Germany who was caught up using a scout in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two and sent home to the United States. Even
Speaker 1: after he was caught, they had to physically restrain him
Speaker 1: from attempting to visit the scout he was molesting, A
Speaker 1: scout's official wrote to headquarters. A file was opened, but
Speaker 1: Slusher was allowed to continue working with scouts again. Another
Speaker 1: voy Scout leaders like this guy is such fucking pedophile
Speaker 1: that we had to physically stop him from going after
Speaker 1: this kid after we caught him. Like it's like a
Speaker 1: cartoon of a pedophile. Yeah yeah, family, boy scouts are like,
Speaker 1: this guy deserves a second chance. When did the second
Speaker 1: chance program started? Because you hear that, like, oh, they
Speaker 1: gave a second chance, you assume it's something like, oh,
Speaker 1: he like showed them some weird pictures and they decided
Speaker 1: there was plausible, which again is not okay. But no,
Speaker 1: these guys are like this is hardcore shitvicted fu rapists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're just like, yeah, I feel like we give
Speaker 1: him a second chance. We had to see we had
Speaker 1: to physically restrain the guy from doing formalistation. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: come on, let me go. There was romantic So Slusher
Speaker 1: also shouldn't let a guy named Slush or do damn
Speaker 1: near anything. Thatsolutely okay name. That's not an okay name. Um,
Speaker 1: So he's allowed to keep working with the scouts, and
Speaker 1: he goes on to molest at least eight boys in
Speaker 1: a Boulder, Colorado troop, threatening to kill them if they
Speaker 1: told anybody. According to the Boulder County Sheriff's apartment, Yeah yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1: The detective in Boulder County wrote, quote, almost every boy
Speaker 1: scout in Troops seventy five and Troops seventy three has
Speaker 1: been approached sexually by Slusher on one time or another,
Speaker 1: adding that the victims are too numerous to interview the
Speaker 1: things like I can't interview all the kids he molested
Speaker 1: because like, I don't have that kind of time. The
Speaker 1: Boulder police don't have the time to top to all
Speaker 1: of this. We're not authorizing any ot right now, so
Speaker 1: we can investige single person. I mean, in fairness, they
Speaker 1: probably had plenty to put him away, and he pleads
Speaker 1: guilty to one account of sexually assaulting a child. Um.
Speaker 1: The Boy Scouts continued the practice of offering probation and
Speaker 1: suspension to prominent men accused of abuse until as the
Speaker 1: result of a high profile abuse case in San Mateo, California.
Speaker 1: Richard Stengler was the adult head of a Sea Scout
Speaker 1: It's unit, which is kind of like a for older
Speaker 1: boys closer to adulthood, like elite, Like you're doing like
Speaker 1: boat shit right, like it's doing cool stuff. It actually
Speaker 1: was the thing I wanted to do, but Texas is
Speaker 1: not as easy to do that kind of Um So
Speaker 1: like the Boy Scout Navy, Yeah, the Boy Scout Navy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um you gotta. So that's always a red flag where
Speaker 1: your organization starts and they have a Navy. It's especially
Speaker 1: a red flag for the Navy. Yeah. I think all
Speaker 1: the Marines in the audience would agree with that. Um So,
Speaker 1: like you know, there's the goop cruise like that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like the boys. When you take to see probably
Speaker 1: an issue. You know, someone says, you know, good people
Speaker 1: don't take to see by the way, I'm crowdfunding to
Speaker 1: buy a yacht for all of my followers to live on.
Speaker 1: We're gonna sail around the ocean. We're gonna look for gold. Um.
Speaker 1: It's international waters anything, international waters, baby any there's no
Speaker 1: laws in international water. Our own society are civilization, Sophie,
Speaker 1: come on, come no hub Um alright, well, here's some ads.
Speaker 1: We're back. I'm just sad, Symphie won't let me, won't
Speaker 1: let me. Hubbard alright, well okay, so um. This guy,
Speaker 1: Richard Steingler Uh in seventy one is the head of
Speaker 1: a sea Scouts unit, and in seventy one he gets
Speaker 1: charged with tying up and groping three boys. This was
Speaker 1: the thing I alluded to in the first episode with
Speaker 1: the restraints. Um, is that like a not do you
Speaker 1: get a merit badge for? Yeah? I mean it's unfortunate
Speaker 1: to say this, but a boy Scout troop leaders probably
Speaker 1: in the most able to tie up a boy because
Speaker 1: he's probably pretty good at knots. That really makes that
Speaker 1: merit badge a lot darker, does it does? It's not great?
Speaker 1: It's not great. Um. So he gets convicted and sent
Speaker 1: in seventy one and sentenced to three years of probation,
Speaker 1: which I might argue the court system failed there too,
Speaker 1: because I think tying up and groping boys probably more
Speaker 1: than three years probation, longer for like smoke hot for
Speaker 1: like pot. Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, the Scouts suspended him during
Speaker 1: this period, but they didn't kick him out. When his
Speaker 1: probation ended, a local Scout executive and a number of
Speaker 1: parents lobbied for his suspension to be lifted. So clearly
Speaker 1: this guy had some sort of charism was good at
Speaker 1: like convincing parents. I don't know what he fucking told them,
Speaker 1: maybe like it was a merit badge thing gone wrong. Um,
Speaker 1: but parents lobby for this guy, which is settling. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is not again, we this is not an unheard
Speaker 1: of kind of situation like this. This occurs in other
Speaker 1: organizations and whatnot. Um sure, it's just like I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: actually to me, the Catholic Church, you know, not Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but I understand a little bit more having like
Speaker 1: basically the guy who talks to God being an important
Speaker 1: figure in your life, and yeah, and like like standing
Speaker 1: up for the organization and the church and maybe even
Speaker 1: a specific priest in the church who's been accused of
Speaker 1: something because you're like that dude talks to God. Who
Speaker 1: am I to question that guy? These are fucking volunteer
Speaker 1: Scout master. These are doing like cosplay and teaching know
Speaker 1: how to whittle, and they're just like no, But he's
Speaker 1: a good dude. Yeah, he's he's good like it. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's actually just a tremendous amount in common with like
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts and how this works and like, um
Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church. Yeah, um, yeah, okay, um, all right,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, let's get back into this. So, so this guy,
Speaker 1: after tying up and molesting several boys, just three years
Speaker 1: probation and when it ends, he gets successfully reinstituted to
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts. The local Scout officer who lobbied for
Speaker 1: him being brought back again, wrote quote, I feel quite
Speaker 1: confident that no further problems will arise. Just fucking just
Speaker 1: an organization of marks. Everyone is a fucking mark. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Fourteen years later, in nine nine, a parent reported that
Speaker 1: Stinger had padlocked her eleven year old boy in a
Speaker 1: harness and watched as he hung in the air during
Speaker 1: a boat trip. So that's good, that's fine. The b
Speaker 1: s a called the police, and the police go to
Speaker 1: Stinger's home and they search it and they find dozens
Speaker 1: of restraints and an enormous cash of child pornography, naked
Speaker 1: photos that he took of boys that he had blindfolded,
Speaker 1: um and like tied to things. At least one is
Speaker 1: a picture of a naked six year old boy that
Speaker 1: he blindfolded and tied to a bed um like profound
Speaker 1: child abuse on a Yeah, and again they catch him
Speaker 1: fourteen years later. He's doing this the whole time. That's
Speaker 1: what the photos show that he'd been the whole time.
Speaker 1: He gets back and he's just tying up in the lasting.
Speaker 1: They call. They called the cops when he what did
Speaker 1: he do to the kid? He like tied him up?
Speaker 1: He yeah, he I don't even know if this was sexual,
Speaker 1: if he was just like being a dick. Probably both.
Speaker 1: But he'd like padlocked an eleven year old boy in
Speaker 1: a harness and hung him in the air during a
Speaker 1: boat trip. So his mom is just like, that's physical.
Speaker 1: Be I don't think she called it in a sexual
Speaker 1: but she was just like, that's assault. That's when they
Speaker 1: called the cos. Yeah, I mean, his mom calls the cops,
Speaker 1: like her credit. This is probably the first she's a
Speaker 1: wearing anything's wrong and she I mean he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we need to deal with this ship. And the cops
Speaker 1: search his house and find out that he has been
Speaker 1: tying up and restraining and molesting kids for fourteen years
Speaker 1: and has tons of pictures of it. So this guy's
Speaker 1: like both like a sexual abuser and just a literal
Speaker 1: fucking psychopath. Yeah yeah, this guy's not that there's bets
Speaker 1: of both, but dangerous, dangerous person. Yeah fucking ship. So
Speaker 1: when all this dropped, more than twenty four former and
Speaker 1: current Scouts came forward to report that they had been
Speaker 1: abused by Stinger. Some had been victimized as early as
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight. Up until two thousand fifteen, the Chief
Speaker 1: Scout Executive, effectively the head of Boy Scouts, was a
Speaker 1: guy named Wayne Brock. Wayne got that August position in
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve after a four year stint as the
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Scout Executive. Before he held this national position
Speaker 1: in seven, Wayne was the local Boy Scouts executive for
Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. That year, a Scout master at
Speaker 1: a camp in his domain was accused of molesting a
Speaker 1: boy in a sleeping bag. Wayne followed procedure, which at
Speaker 1: the time meant documenting the allegation and sending that documentation
Speaker 1: onto Texas. The leader's name and crimes were added to
Speaker 1: the confidential files. The scout master was expelled, but the
Speaker 1: police were not informed. He left town, Rock was promoted
Speaker 1: again and again, and eventually wound up running the Boy
Speaker 1: Scouts as a different Los Angeles Times article notes quote.
Speaker 1: As he and his recent predecessors rose through the ranks
Speaker 1: of Scouting, they handled at least a hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: cases of suspected sexual abuse dating from the mid nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: according to a Times analysis of constant confidential Boy Scout files.
Speaker 1: As district executives, it was their job to gather evidence
Speaker 1: and witness statement, determined whether to recommend a leader's expulsion,
Speaker 1: and report their findings to headquarters, which made the final decision.
Speaker 1: In the process, the officials had a front row seat
Speaker 1: on cases in which scoutings abuse prevention policies failed. Although
Speaker 1: the officials may have followed Scout policy and violated no laws,
Speaker 1: the files in several cases indicate that they did not
Speaker 1: inform authorities or their communities of suspected child molesters who
Speaker 1: were expelled from the organization. So this is the guy
Speaker 1: who runs the Boy Scouts, right, his history, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, he's not a molester himself, but he has a,
Speaker 1: shall we say, imperfect history of dealing with cases where
Speaker 1: kids are molested and they all all of their last
Speaker 1: names are just read we got Stinger, we got Brack,
Speaker 1: we got Slusher. Yeah. Yeah, like problems, I mean, just
Speaker 1: like they sound like a really scary a team. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this is the guy who runs the Boy Scouts
Speaker 1: um and his predecessor, the guy who had headed the
Speaker 1: b s A before him, was a guy named Robert Mazuka.
Speaker 1: And before Robert Scary I know, I know, and before
Speaker 1: he ran the Boy Scouts, Mazuka spent twenty years as
Speaker 1: a regional Scout executive in California. In Pennsylvania, he dealt
Speaker 1: with numerous cases of child sexual abuse by adults and scouting.
Speaker 1: One of these was the case of David Cooley, an
Speaker 1: assistant Scout master in Pittsburgh who was expelled in nineteen
Speaker 1: nine seven after police found videos that he'd made of
Speaker 1: himself having sex with children. Cooley was eventually sentenced to
Speaker 1: fifty four years in prison. When the case broke, it
Speaker 1: came out that Mazuka had earlier been arrested and convicted
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties seven from molesting a boy in South Carolina.
Speaker 1: He'd been allowed to volunteer and scouting and molest kids
Speaker 1: after that because the Boy Scouts did not require background
Speaker 1: checks at that point. And this brings us to a
Speaker 1: particularly dark part of the story. Oh are we going
Speaker 1: to get dark now? We're finally gonna get dark man. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: if you'll remember, back at the very start of this story,
Speaker 1: back at the very start of Scouting, Robert Baden Powell
Speaker 1: had rejected the idea that scouting volunteers should be filtered
Speaker 1: under the stification that this would reduce the number of
Speaker 1: adults who volunteered and slow expansion. Now, at that time,
Speaker 1: even though kids were being molested, child sexual abuse was
Speaker 1: not a widely understood phenomenon. By the nineteen eighties, this
Speaker 1: had changed. A number of high profile cases of abuse
Speaker 1: of children had led several other leading youth groups to
Speaker 1: institute criminal background checks for their adult volunteers. Criminal background
Speaker 1: checks first became widely possible in nineteen eight five UM
Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighties six, the Big Brothers Big Sisters
Speaker 1: organization made this a requirement for volunteers, and the Boys
Speaker 1: and Girls Club did the same thing in the same year.
Speaker 1: As soon as this becomes possible, responsible organizations who take
Speaker 1: care kids are like, well, of course we should do
Speaker 1: criminal background checks and our adult volunteers obviously, Um, that
Speaker 1: just makes sense. The Boy Scouts don't do this. Scouting
Speaker 1: officials claimed that background checks would be too expensive and
Speaker 1: would scare away volunteers too expensive. Again, it's it would
Speaker 1: have cost tens of millions. They made hundreds of millions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the Boy Scouts they don't have
Speaker 1: the money hash during period. Yeah, everyone's a volunteer or pays,
Speaker 1: so they said that. They also argued that doing so
Speaker 1: would it best to provide a false sense of security.
Speaker 1: Just read how many stories of guys with criminal records
Speaker 1: getting back in the Boy Scouts. Um, they're like, listen,
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen one way or another. Let me let
Speaker 1: me promise you. Even with criminal background checks were not
Speaker 1: kind of stop kids from adults from lasting. Kids don't
Speaker 1: like that's just gonna do it. It's still got to happen.
Speaker 1: But our job is to help Pedophile Scout for Boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the name of the organization. Oh man, oh god.
Speaker 1: Be prepared as a model. That means be prepared to
Speaker 1: get most Yeah, you be prepared for what the adults
Speaker 1: and this organization are going to do to you. So
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts didn't just refuse to require criminal background
Speaker 1: checks for their volunteers. They board huge amounts of money
Speaker 1: into lobbying local governments because states start to be like, well,
Speaker 1: we as a state want to require FBI background checks
Speaker 1: for youth volunteers for organizations anywhere in the state, and
Speaker 1: the b s A lobbies local elected leaders to stop
Speaker 1: these laws. It's it's I don't I don't understand like
Speaker 1: at that, but at that point you're just you're delened
Speaker 1: directly enabling it. This is at all like is this
Speaker 1: like an Epstein thing? Like yes, Like what is going
Speaker 1: on purpose? At this point? It sounds on purpose. I
Speaker 1: can't even logical reason. Yeah, I think someone just because
Speaker 1: like this is the way it's always been. I think
Speaker 1: some of it might some of it is probably that
Speaker 1: there are pedophiles in the organization who are want this,
Speaker 1: and some of it might be well, shit, if we
Speaker 1: do this, people will find out how many adults have
Speaker 1: been molesting kids in the Boy Scouts. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: that that's not gonna be good for us, burn the
Speaker 1: p file or whatever. What the fuck I mean? God damn.
Speaker 1: So the b s A did not ultimately start requiring
Speaker 1: criminal background checks for volunteers, and you want to guess
Speaker 1: what year two thousand three, two eight. By this point,
Speaker 1: hundreds and possibly thousands of men with criminal histories of
Speaker 1: child molestation were allowed into the Boy Scouts. Most of
Speaker 1: these men went on to abuse more children from the
Speaker 1: very earliest days after the decision not to require background checks.
Speaker 1: This was recognized as a problem from yet another Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Times article. In n Scout committee chairman in St. Paul,
Speaker 1: Minnesota decried the organization's half hearted screening in a letter
Speaker 1: to headquarters, b s A is only creating an illusion
Speaker 1: of performing what they claim. K Russell Sias wrote to
Speaker 1: Scout chief executive Been Love. It becomes quite clear that
Speaker 1: b s A is more concerned with passing the buck
Speaker 1: than an accepting responsibility for those who are its adult leaders.
Speaker 1: That same year, a Las Vegas Scout master with a
Speaker 1: criminal history of exposing himself to boys with arrested for
Speaker 1: sexually abusing a twelve year old scout. One parent said
Speaker 1: casinos did a better job of screening workers. Honestly, yeah,
Speaker 1: the parent wrote to Scouting officials. The black eye which
Speaker 1: Scouting has suffered in this could easily have been avoided
Speaker 1: if the council had taken the simple expedient of doing
Speaker 1: a background investigation. I'm mean, yep, yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't. I don't understand it at
Speaker 1: this point. It wasn't the money. They don't want to
Speaker 1: pay the money at that time. Some that has to
Speaker 1: be some of it because of what we're about to
Speaker 1: talk about, because it gets worse. We have not hit
Speaker 1: bottom yet, Matt, Are you excited? I'm just like, if
Speaker 1: my blood pressure goes any higher, mo fucking die. Yes
Speaker 1: we have we have, oh boy. So, while the boy
Speaker 1: Scouts are giving child molester's probation, covering up abused, refusing
Speaker 1: background checks, YadA, YadA, YadA, children keep coming forward to
Speaker 1: tell their stories, and by the nineties again this book
Speaker 1: comes out. It's getting more known, right that this is
Speaker 1: a problem the organization has, and as a result, once
Speaker 1: it becomes clear to people used to pay attention that
Speaker 1: like this might be a systemic issue. Some parents of
Speaker 1: kids who get molested try to soothe the organization, claiming
Speaker 1: a pattern of abuse enabled by the very structure of
Speaker 1: the B s A itself. Confronted with these threats in
Speaker 1: the form of children entrusted to the B s A
Speaker 1: and abused by men that organization had refused to properly vet,
Speaker 1: the boy Scouts viciously attacked the victims and their families.
Speaker 1: In one case, two boys in Michigan alleged that they
Speaker 1: had been molested quote, hundreds of times by a troop leader.
Speaker 1: The B s A denied any responsibility, and instead, in
Speaker 1: court blamed their widowed mother. They claimed she had failed
Speaker 1: quote to provide adequate supervision over the volunteer they had approved. Wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: your fault, your kids got molested if you weren't watching
Speaker 1: hard enough over the guy. That his whole job, according
Speaker 1: to the ethos of our organization, is to help, like
Speaker 1: single moms raised their kids. You didn't. It's your fault that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should have done a background check. Yeah, you should
Speaker 1: have done a background check. Why did you do that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't you scream? Come on, And it gets worse from
Speaker 1: the l A Times quote. In two thousand two, Gerald Schwartz,
Speaker 1: a forty two year old former Scout master in New York,
Speaker 1: admitted to abusing a boy in his troop in the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties after being secretly recorded saying he did something very,
Speaker 1: very wrong and apologizing to the boy. Schwartz pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to four counts of sodomy and was sent to prison.
Speaker 1: Despite the conviction and the victim's testimony that Schwartz raped
Speaker 1: me and forced me to perform oral sex on him,
Speaker 1: the Scouts, in emotion to dismiss the subsequent lawsuit, contended
Speaker 1: that the sex was consensual. What the fuck? Yep, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: we gotta burn it down. This is yeah, we gotta
Speaker 1: burn this ship down. This is not this is not salvageable.
Speaker 1: This is not salvageable. Holy fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's bad.
Speaker 1: That's the worst these guys are. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: much worse than I thought it was. Yeah, really is.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not pro scout no more. No, no,
Speaker 1: this has definitely turned me around in the night. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties in Oregon, one man alleged that
Speaker 1: Scouting troop leader Timurd Dikes was allowed to continue his
Speaker 1: leadership position after he admitted to molesting seventeen boys, and
Speaker 1: this kid had been molested him after that. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: took decades for one of the boys victimized by Dikes
Speaker 1: to seek legal recourse, But when he did, at a
Speaker 1: trial in two thousand ten, regional bs A official, Eugene
Speaker 1: Grant blamed his parents for letting their children go to
Speaker 1: Dike's apartment to work on merit badges and attend to
Speaker 1: Scouting sleepover. Which maybe there's some questionable parenting calls being
Speaker 1: made here, but you led him into your organization and
Speaker 1: let him stay after he molested seventeen boys. And also,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's like you're you were saying, it's
Speaker 1: like you trust, you trust him he scout right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the boy Scouts representatives at in court his parents
Speaker 1: should have known better. I think it's criminal. You let
Speaker 1: him stay in the Scouts after he admitted to molesting
Speaker 1: seventeen boys, and the parents are the criminals. The funk
Speaker 1: is wrong with you, these guys we gotta Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't understand. I'm not going to say say that in
Speaker 1: a court of law and not immediately into fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, just like murder is wrong, right, yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of in some kind. I'm not trying to say publicly
Speaker 1: right now anything that's gonna get me in trouble, but
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes murder is good. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: reasonable thing to feel. Hearing this story, like they said
Speaker 1: these words out loud, and the fact that no one
Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, I got to kill this guy
Speaker 1: out like the value of brickings. That's a brick in
Speaker 1: That's like somebody should just be like, Okay, I gotta
Speaker 1: hit this guy with a brick. The brick. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't get to say that and not get hit in
Speaker 1: the face with the brick. That's that's brick in words. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: the Oregon jury rejected his line of argument and found
Speaker 1: the Scouts liable for almost twenty million dollars in damages.
Speaker 1: This is the case. This is why we all like
Speaker 1: no in mass about the problem. Now. This case breaks
Speaker 1: open the floodgates of abuse claims against the boy Scouts
Speaker 1: um And it's during this case part of the discovery
Speaker 1: and this like the p files are revealed and and
Speaker 1: put into the public record because they're trying to show
Speaker 1: like there's a pattern of abuse. Right, These guys keep
Speaker 1: getting in and abused in the boy Scouts let them
Speaker 1: in again. Um, this is what led to all of
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times articles we've quoted so far, because
Speaker 1: once these things are made public, because if it's introduced
Speaker 1: into like a legal case in that way, it's like
Speaker 1: anyone can see that. So they start combing through this stuff,
Speaker 1: and it other they start doing, like other stuff gets released. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's the this is the blood in the water,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. Journalists start finding out other details of
Speaker 1: sorted voy Scout sexual abuse history, and more victims start
Speaker 1: coming forward. An avalanche begins. One issue that confronted many
Speaker 1: victims is the fact that some states had very strict
Speaker 1: laws regarding the statute of limitation for sex crimes. So
Speaker 1: like a lot of these guys they were abused in
Speaker 1: like the fifties, you know, and like now as an
Speaker 1: adult who's like, these stories are heartbreaking. Some of these
Speaker 1: men are like I was never I was abused in
Speaker 1: like the fifties the sixties. I was never able to
Speaker 1: like have a relationship that I was I've never been
Speaker 1: able to feel intimate with anybody like this is there's
Speaker 1: cases of people who commit suicide one volt whether were molested,
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, my brother became addicted to drugs
Speaker 1: and died of an overdose and like that he never
Speaker 1: recovered from this. You know. It's I mean, anyone who
Speaker 1: knows a victim of childhood sexual abuse knows how deep,
Speaker 1: like uniquely evil an act it is to inflict upon somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and how yeah the stories are just so when these
Speaker 1: guys start realizing I'm not alone, people will believe me now,
Speaker 1: and also maybe if I speak up, this will help
Speaker 1: to protect other kids, you know. Um, So they start
Speaker 1: to come forward, but on a lot of states they
Speaker 1: can't bring charges against the people who victimize them or
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts because of the statute of limitations. So
Speaker 1: many states, when they realize how many these kids are
Speaker 1: out there, to their credit, a bunch of state lawmakers
Speaker 1: put forward bills to expand the statute of limitations and
Speaker 1: allow charges to be pressed further away from the time
Speaker 1: of the abuse. To be like, well, ship, maybe we
Speaker 1: didn't really, we didn't make these laws considering everything that
Speaker 1: was happening, and like it's we need to we need
Speaker 1: to allow these people a chance to get justice. The
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts spend a fortune and lawyers and lobbying fighting
Speaker 1: these bills wherever they crop up, once again, devoting for
Speaker 1: huge financial resources which they said we're not worth spending
Speaker 1: on background checks to try and make it harder for
Speaker 1: boys victimized by BSA officials to seek justice. From the
Speaker 1: Washington Post quote, the group retained lobbyists in Georgia and
Speaker 1: New York, where lawmakers say such action helped to all
Speaker 1: proposals that included look back windows allowing adults to take
Speaker 1: legal action over decades old claims. It is hired lobbyists
Speaker 1: in Michigan, where similar proposals are being debated. The bills
Speaker 1: would give adults who were abused as children a second
Speaker 1: chance to file suit if they missed their first opportunity
Speaker 1: under state law. Opponents of the state proposals, including the
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts and Catholic arch Diocese, argued that open ended
Speaker 1: look back periods violate due process and would put groups
Speaker 1: in the tough position of defending themselves in cases from
Speaker 1: the distant past. I love like the people the Scouts
Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church coming together, coming together, just like
Speaker 1: a fucking rape. E Voltron trying to be like, well,
Speaker 1: this is just wrong and this is I want to
Speaker 1: belabor a bit on the argument they're making, which is
Speaker 1: that this is unfair because it puts us in the
Speaker 1: position of defending our organization from actions that other We
Speaker 1: weren't in charge of the Boy Scouts on this app
Speaker 1: this was fifty years ago, completely different group of men
Speaker 1: who were in charge. Like, how can we be held
Speaker 1: responsible today for the actions of two generations leaders from
Speaker 1: two generations ago. Yeah, I don't think this is a
Speaker 1: good argument. For one thing, as we have discussed, the
Speaker 1: historical records shows that the b s a's attitude towards
Speaker 1: sex abusers and the ways in which you enable them
Speaker 1: and defend them has not wavered since the days of
Speaker 1: Robert Baden Powell. From Baden Powell's time to the fucking
Speaker 1: two thousands, the Boy Scouts are doing basically the same ship.
Speaker 1: For another, the same officials who led the b s
Speaker 1: A in the late OTTs had been the ones in
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties furthering the height and ignored policies
Speaker 1: that enabled sexual abuse of children. In April of two
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, an expert who had been working with the
Speaker 1: b s A estimated that as many as seven thousand,
Speaker 1: eight hundred and nineteen adult volunteers and staff members had
Speaker 1: sexually abused boys over the course of the b s
Speaker 1: AS history. He suggested they were responsible for harming as
Speaker 1: many as twelve thousand, two hundred and fifty four victims.
Speaker 1: That's the b s AS expert right now. If that
Speaker 1: were it, if that were the extent of the problem,
Speaker 1: this would be a huge problem. But it turns out
Speaker 1: that was a drastic underestimation. A little over a year later,
Speaker 1: in November, after a series of lawsuits and settlements, more
Speaker 1: than a hundred thousand alleged victims had come forward to
Speaker 1: claim they had been sexually assaulted as children in the
Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. So that's a hundred thousand who have said
Speaker 1: I was a victim in the Scots. Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: is in the last year. Fuck yes. The Boy Scouts
Speaker 1: have filed for bankruptcy, claiming to be devastated by the allegations. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a number of fucked up things in the fall
Speaker 1: out of this. One of the most the worst things. So,
Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts were stewards of a huge amount of
Speaker 1: wild lands right for campgrounds and stuff, and they were
Speaker 1: that they would take care of They've sold a bunch
Speaker 1: of that to developers, a lot of that ship these
Speaker 1: like this, like Pristine Wild they have been turned into
Speaker 1: like housing developments and ship because the Boy Scouts went
Speaker 1: broke trying to defending themselves from all the rape that
Speaker 1: their members did. It's, um, it's just like a comprehensively
Speaker 1: bleak story. Oh my god. They can't even redeem themselves
Speaker 1: and make them like public lands. There is just to
Speaker 1: sell it, to pay for lawyers to attack these kids.
Speaker 1: If I can't touch kids on this land, then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna fucking build condos on it. Yeah. Well, the story
Speaker 1: of the Boy Scouts, I hate it. Yeah, oh my
Speaker 1: good god, dude. I mean it's like usually when I
Speaker 1: you know the name of the show behind the Bastards,
Speaker 1: It's like usually it's like the plural is because you
Speaker 1: have many episodes covering specific bastards. This is one. It
Speaker 1: was just like one bastard at the beginning, and then
Speaker 1: just an endless slew of bastards and and it's too
Speaker 1: many bad. I think I'm on bastard overload. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to do some righteous murder. Let's
Speaker 1: do a righteous kill together, dude. Yeah, yeah, let's go, Um, Sophie,
Speaker 1: can you uh can we can we like a get
Speaker 1: get come right off some some money for murder tools?
Speaker 1: Probably not? Well what about a boat so that we
Speaker 1: can go to international waters? Yeah? In international waters it's legal,
Speaker 1: so stop trying, come on, right, it'll be like sea
Speaker 1: org but like but yeah, but good a good sea
Speaker 1: org done it right? Good? There could not yet, So
Speaker 1: you have a very closed mind towards sea orgs. And
Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair to all the good org
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like uh like the I don't know the surfers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've probably a chill. Yeah, come on, m No, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to happen. Um, I mean, you
Speaker 1: know we can. We can do it on land, I guess.
Speaker 1: But the point is that I'm currently furious and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm this is so eating. So I've had a good time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you had a good time on my show. Well
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone's dissociating now, so, um, have a good
Speaker 1: time staring into the distance and uh yeah and just
Speaker 1: kind of like thinking, yeah, yeah, I have a good
Speaker 1: time losing touch with your corporeal body as the rage
Speaker 1: within you becomes transcendent. Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's a.
Speaker 1: It's a type of drug rages. It is a type
Speaker 1: of drugge hall. Yeah, I'm just gonna get some ragel
Speaker 1: hall on right now. I need a xan X. Yeah,
Speaker 1: rage out with your page out. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Boy, Matt, you got any plugables to plug? Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do sopromos podcast. Pot yourself a gun check it out.
Speaker 1: We're about to start season six by the time this
Speaker 1: comes out, well, season six, episode one will be out.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a great show, film drunk broadcast, that's us,
Speaker 1: but the same guys talking about movies. I wanted I
Speaker 1: wanted to dedicate this to my my childhood friend Johnny Aaron.
Speaker 1: Uh you know you listen to this show, Johnny are
Speaker 1: and you're a you're a good you're a good man.
Speaker 1: Sorry it was the molestation one. Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: rough episode to get a shout out here, but you know,
Speaker 1: fucking hey, you can't all be winners, you know, man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks thanks for having me back. Yep, thanks for coming back.
Speaker 1: And also sorry, oh