1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: And we're all of that, Chris, every little bit of 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: that goes into the episode. I'm Robert Evans, are you hi? 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards with Matt Leeby I I'm back. 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: How are you feeling learning all this fun stuff about 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America? All, I'm you know, remember 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: earlier when I was saying I always felt like I 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: missed out and not being a Boy Scout. Yeah, I'm 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: I'm a feeling that that was that was God just 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: looking out for me, because that's gonna get dark. It 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: is it's so fucked up. Like again, not to like 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: center my own experience like in this, but it is 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: weird to me that, Like, again, I know, I've spent 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: all of this time writing twenty pages on how fucked 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: up the Boy Scouts are. I personally have like nothing 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: but positive memories of my time in the Scouts um, 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: and it was it was weird, like I didn't start 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: to recognize because there was We're not talking about a 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: lot of the other stuff that's fucked up about the 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: Boys scaust like everyone knows like they for decades would 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: not let you be gay or trains or whatnot. In 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: the Boys Kicked out. If you came out, you couldn't 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: be an atheist. You had you didn't have to be 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: a specific religion, but you had to you had to 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: acknowledge the existence of a higher power. There's like other 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: stuff that they've been attacked for. And part of the 26 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: reason why I'm not really focusing on that is that, like, 27 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: that's bad. That is not something that would render an 28 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: organization founded in nineteen ten fundamentally unsalvageable. Right, A lot 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: of organizations that old had weird attitudes, bad attitudes towards 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: gay people, even racist attitudes, and can change over time. 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: Be like, well, yeah, the people who founded us believe 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: these things. The fundamentals of our organization are good. Teaching 33 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: people how to camp. We're we we've we've grown that all. 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: I think that the Boy Scouts could have grown past, 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, the anti LGBT thing, and they have started 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: accepting kids who are gay and trans. I think they 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: could have grown past the restriction to just boys because 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: now they do accept girls. They could have grown past 39 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: a number of the problematic things. But you cannot grow 40 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: past is enabling the rape of tens of thousands of boys. 41 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: That that cannot be redeemed. That's the thing that seems systemic. 42 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: It's one of it's it's one of those things like, yeah, 43 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: an organization found in nineteen ten. People who made it 44 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: probably had some weird beliefs on race and gender, and like, yeah, 45 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: you can, you can. The organization I think can move 46 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: past that as long as it acknowledges the flaws of 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: its past and it confronts them head on, which I'm 48 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: not saying the Boy Scouts did, like they delayed way 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: too long performing on that stuff. But I think that 50 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: we're like the thing that makes them unsalvageable. The reason 51 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: I think the Boy Scats just needs to be destroyed 52 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: as an organization is the mass rape of children. Like 53 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: that's you can't, there's no no getting past that, moving 54 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: on a fair that's a fair problem, Yeah, it's Yeah. 55 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: If not for the mass rape of children, I feel 56 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: like would be you know, an organization that could make 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: do some reform, move past it's past. Yeah, But it's 58 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: that little thing where there was a master of children, 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: the tens of thousands, potentially hundreds of thousands of boys raped. Yeah. Yeah, 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: and and thus also creating a cycle of abuse and 61 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: predation due to the nature of you know, early childhood 62 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: sexual violence like that alone probably grounds. Yeah, they should 63 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: destroy the organization. I don't feel differently about the Catholic 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: Church in fairness, Um it is weird, like I can say, 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: because then I grew up very conservative. As I said, 66 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: I said a number of times if I had been 67 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: like sixteen in two fourteen, I might have wound up 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: like a right for a while. Um, I was really 69 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: right wing. Um one of like the first cracks in 70 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the armors. When I was I'm not sure if I 71 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: was seventeen or eighteen. I think it was my senior 72 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: year of high school. It was an academic to Cathalon, 73 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: which is like a nerd thing, and we had our 74 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: own little like classroom. If you were on the team, 75 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: you could hang out in that classroom in between classes 76 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: or during lunch, which as a nerdy kid who just 77 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: wanted to read his Warhammer books, that was nice to do. 78 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: And so I'm in there one day with another kid 79 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: on the team, um, who was in the Boy Scouts. 80 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: We were in different troops, but he was, he was, 81 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: and he was. I think I actually quit the because 82 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: I quit the Boy Scouts at like sixteen, fifteen or sixteen, 83 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: he was still in the Boy Scouts and was like 84 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: either eighteen or almost eighteen. It was very close to 85 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: getting his eagle. And you know, he and I were friends. 86 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: We were sitting in the classroom one day and kind 87 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: of in the middle of just sort of like we're 88 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: both reading separate books quietly alone in this room, he 89 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: just looks up at me and tells me that he's gay. 90 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: And this is the first person I ever met who 91 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: like I knew was gay, who would like that I 92 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: had talked to me about it. Um and um. I said, oh, okay. 93 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: And and he immediately after that because it just like 94 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: I think he just had to tell somebody just burst 95 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: out of him immediately after they said, please don't tell anybody, 96 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: Like the most important thing in the world to me 97 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: is finishing my eagle Scout, is like getting my eagle Scout, 98 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: like and they won't let me. And that was that 99 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: was like for me a moment of left like that's 100 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: really fucked up, actually that this kid's this kid who 101 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: clearly loves the Boy Scouts, is dedicated to like what 102 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: this organization stands for, is terrified of being kicked out 103 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: for just like something like it was just very obvious 104 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: in that moment, like, oh, yeah, that's clearly not a choice. 105 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: Like the way he told me about it was just 106 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: like this he had to let somebody know, is this 107 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: thing that was? I don't know. That was a moment 108 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: for me. Um, and like, uh, just a, I know that. 109 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: That's when I first started to think really critically about 110 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts as an organization. Um, because again, I 111 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: grew up in this right wing you know bubble um, 112 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: And I guess I think it's it's like that one 113 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: way or another for a lot of people, like you 114 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: live in this kind of ideological bubble until you like 115 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: meet someone who's you care about, whose life experience contradicts 116 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: the things that you just never thought about before. Oh 117 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: I'm wrong about some really important ship. Yeah. Sometimes it 118 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: just takes that, you know, having an actual one on 119 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: one or just a human experience to get you outside 120 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: of like kind of the the strict dogmatism of your 121 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: like inherited ideology where you're just like, you know, of 122 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: course I'm a libertarian. My dad's a libertarian and he 123 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: raised me to be libertarian, you know. And then uh, 124 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: and then you you know, you live life and you 125 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: meet people who you know, in which the government was 126 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: actually uh a necessary entity in their life, and you're 127 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: like a ship. Like you know, people who just grow 128 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: up in a bubble. I think as soon as they 129 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: have that you know, bubble bursts a little bit, then 130 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: they can kind of move past whatever you know, do 131 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: ye ideology they have Yep. It is that thing where 132 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: like the Republican politicians who have like a life experience 133 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: that doesn't fit in with conservatism are like the ones 134 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: who have these very public like John McCain arch Republican 135 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: and everything but torture because he was tortured. It was 136 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: very consistently like, no, we can't, this is not okay. Uh, 137 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: Dick Cheney arch Republican and everything but gay rights because 138 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: the daughters gay, and he's like yeah, um, it's just yeah, 139 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean that's just how people are, I guess. So 140 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America began operating what they called 141 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: an ineligible volunteer file system in nineteen nineteen, so they 142 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: did impel still alive when they this is like they 143 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: and this is not just even primary, this is not 144 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: primarily about sexual assault. This is obviously You've got this 145 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: growing organization, a bunch of men join it, and for 146 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: one reason or another, they do not meet the standards 147 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: that the b s A does have for adult volunteers. 148 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: And they're not screening people, but people who do the 149 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: job and are bad at it. And I think most 150 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: of these people again, are not molesting kids. They're like 151 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: they get some kids killed on a hike or some ship. Right, 152 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: Like they're they're irresponsible, you know, like there's a lot 153 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: of ways to be bad at being a scat past. 154 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: You know, you're taking kids into the woods, a number 155 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: of things can go awry. Um usually pedophilia isn't the 156 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: first problem when you're stranging alone in the woods with 157 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: an adult, but you would think, yeah, and most of 158 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: the men in the ineligible volunteer files had not purposefully 159 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: harmed a child. They had just like funked up in 160 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: some way, probably some way that's like still deplorable, but 161 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: like not they're not trying to harm anybody. A subset, though, 162 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: of the ineligible volunteer list are men who had been 163 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: caught or at least accused of molesting the children in 164 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: their care. This subset of the Ineligible Volunteer system were 165 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: dubbed the p files or perversion files. Yeah. Yeah. I 166 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: thought they would go with yeah yeah, not pedophile, pederist. 167 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's a lot of rape. Yeah yeah. So 168 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: this starts in like the twin problematic files, Yeah, the 169 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: problematic So when Maiden peals alive, they do like attempt 170 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: to and again they don't attempt to by screening people beforehand, 171 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: but they do attempt to be like, oh, we should 172 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: if a guy gets kicked out for raping a kid, 173 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: we should probably put his name in a file somewhere. 174 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: We should we should probably write this down. Which is 175 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: the minimum, the barest minimum. I just want to remember 176 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: his name. You have a list of the guy, as 177 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: you who sucked the kids in our care? If I 178 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: can also get their phone numbers, just so we can 179 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: talk and just see if they have photos exactly? Do 180 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: you want to go to the lake? Oh, Biden pal So. 181 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: In nineteen the list was computerized, but there's still existed 182 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: a hard copy, and there is still one today, which 183 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: reportedly fills fifteen file cabinets at the b s A 184 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: headquarters in Irving, Texas. Only a handful of men at 185 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: the very top of the organization can access them. In 186 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: the b S as the Boy Scouts of America. So 187 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: I should know when we talk about this, this is 188 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: all focused on the b s A, which is not 189 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: technically the organization Biden Pal founded, because it's very decentralized. 190 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: There's like the different countries, they're different like organizations right 191 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: effectively kind of corporations almost um. And they're all kind 192 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: of like linked and related to each other, and they 193 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: do gamberally people get together from different countries. But in 194 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: the b s A is made in the image of 195 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: what Biden Pal talks about. I'm sure there is a 196 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: lot on like abuses in like England and great in 197 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: the UK and in like other countries. The vast majority 198 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: of the the the documentation on abuse within the Boy 199 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: Scouts is within the b s A. And so that's 200 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: what we're focusing on here today. Um. So, for decades 201 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: the files were either entirely unknown or at most a 202 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: rumor to those outside the organization. They would occasionally make appearances, 203 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: though by the time Lord Biden Powell died in nineteen 204 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: forty one, there had already been multiple cases of child 205 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: molesters who had been caught and convicted for what they've 206 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: done as Boy Scout leaders. This pattern continued up to 207 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: the present day, and when those cases would end in 208 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: criminal charges and trials, files on the perpetrator would often 209 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: be admitted into evidence, usually under seal. This most frequently 210 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: happened in the latter half of the twentieth and early 211 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: twenty first century, when boys and groups of boys began 212 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: to allege that what had happened to them, the abuse 213 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: they had suffered, was not an isolated incident, but was 214 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 1: instead the result of a pattern of abuse within the organization. 215 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: The files contain often harrowing firsthand accounts from victims, like 216 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: this interview with a ten year old scout in nineteen 217 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: seventy to the victim of a sexual assault by Georgia 218 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: troop leader Samuel Max Deboa Jr. Quote, I was crying 219 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: and I reached around and hit Max in the face 220 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: and said I was going to quit the troop and 221 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: tell my daddy. Then we heard the others coming back 222 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: and Max said, put your pants back on. Yeah, that's 223 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: like one of the less harrowing ones. I'm not gonna 224 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna read in detail, but we will discuss 225 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: what happened, like read detailed accounts of kids getting molested here, 226 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: but you do need to know like what broadly occurred, 227 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: you know cases that is important. Um, the p files 228 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: at least were something. Um, so it's better than certainly 229 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: doing nothing at all. But as a barrier to the 230 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: assault of boys in care of the Boy Scouts of America, 231 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: they were incredibly porous. To illustrate this, let's start with 232 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: an illustrative case of abuse among the Boy Scouts from 233 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: a little more than a generation after Baden Powell's death. 234 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: Stephen Field was a troop leader in southern California. The 235 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: B s A started investigating him in nineteen seventy one 236 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: after a scout in Santa Monica reported that he had 237 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: been sexually abused by Field. A troop committee which included parents, 238 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: B s A officials, and a psychiatrist. So that's good, right, 239 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: You're bringing like, not just parents but a professional in Um, 240 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: that's a positive way to look at things, right. Uh 241 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: this I feel this feels like the doctor thing for 242 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: last episode. I don't trust that. I'm quite so this 243 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: this committee is convened and they look at the evidence 244 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: and they conclude that the story was truth. This kid 245 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: had been abused. What Field had done with sexual abuse. 246 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: Their investigation, in fact, found not only to abuse this kid, 247 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: but he had a pattern of what could credibly be 248 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: called criminally sexual behavior, including forcing his boy scouts to 249 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: play strip poker and run around naked after losing games, 250 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: which is not ever like there's there's that's not even 251 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: like a gray air. Yeah, strip poker is not really 252 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: inside the boy scouts milieu, you know. And also like 253 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: running around naked is not part of it. That's never 254 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, you can play well, I mean it kind 255 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: of is from the start actually, but it shouldn't have been. 256 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: We're just finding new and clever ways to get kids 257 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: to run around naked. Yeah, And it's what it is 258 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: when we talked about like naked swimming, running around naked, 259 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: Like I believe very strongly that like nudities, there's nothing 260 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: wrong or inherently sexual about nudity. It be like this 261 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: thing where the idea that like people are doing things 262 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: naked is like lascivious. Clearly Baden Powell and a number 263 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: like the men and like found it lascivious, and so 264 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: that's a problem. Like, yeah, it ended up being one 265 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: of their favorite things. Yeah, that's an issue. That's going 266 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: to be an issue, you know. Um yeah, Um, So 267 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: they find out. This guy not only molests this kid, 268 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: but he has a history of very like criminal. I 269 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: suspect it as illegal to make children play strip poker. 270 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Like I think that is a crime. Not a law knower, 271 00:13:52,520 --> 00:14:00,359 Speaker 1: but that seems crimy. It's I don't know the exact number, shoot, 272 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: but like that seems not legal. It seems like like 273 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: a thing you would use. That seems like a thing 274 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: we don't allow. Like I happen to think that's against 275 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: some law. It's got to be in there somewhere, probably 276 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: the delinquency of a miner or something. I don't know, 277 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: um whatever, some something not right about that, um. But 278 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts don't report him to the police. They 279 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: don't report him to anyone. In fact, they remove him, 280 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: they kick him out of the Boy Scouts. But the 281 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: only report they make about this is from a regional 282 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts employee who fills out a form on Field 283 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: and sends it to headquarters, and that form is placed 284 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: in the p files. So that's all that happens. National 285 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: officials told the regional official that this meant that Fields 286 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: would never be able to work in or volunteer for 287 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts again. And yet from a report in 288 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times quote. He was involved with several 289 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: Southern California troops over the next seventeen years. According to 290 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: his file. Contacted recently by The Times, Field explained that 291 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: he failed a light detector test required by the Santa 292 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: Monica Troop committee. He was encouraged to transfer to another 293 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: troop in the city, where he served as scout master 294 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: for four years. They sent him he fails a light 295 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: detector and they're like, you just gotta go to another troupe. Bro, 296 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, what the fuck? Just do what they 297 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: do at the corner liquor store when someone has fucking 298 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: put a picture of him up on the wall. What 299 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: a picture on the wall? Just say not that guy. 300 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: That's It's so easy, dude, Oh my god, your job 301 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: is protecting children. Show at least as much care as 302 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: a liquor store clerk over a bounced check. Like fuck, 303 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: So the fucking Field tells the Los Angeles Times. They 304 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: said it had all been cleared up with the scouts, 305 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: Like I don't how do you clear this out? In Valencia, 306 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: he joined his brother in law's troop, but left after 307 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: a parent intercepted a love letter he had written to 308 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: a Scout. The file shows. At one point, the file 309 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: says Field was caught watching pornography with naked scouts in 310 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: his jacuzzi. Jesus, fuck one. Seventeen years of this, come on, 311 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: seventeen years. This isn't like, you know. Twenty years later 312 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: he changed his name and his identity and moved across 313 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: the country and he just stuck his way into it. No, 314 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: he just shows up. One group is like, yeah, you 315 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: failed the I promise not to molest kids part of 316 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: the light detector. Here, go to this other group. Bring 317 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: your jackuzy with you. You're out of the Silmar chapter 318 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: of the Scouts. And you know what Glendale's recruiting. Yeah, 319 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, super fucked up. Like again, there were 320 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: in it's height, like seven million boys in the Boy Scouts. 321 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: Some of them were always and I'm not being callous here, 322 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: it is inevitable in any population of seven million boys, 323 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: some of them will get molested by adults. Right. The 324 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: fact that this is a thing that happens is not 325 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: inherently the fall of the Boy Scouts, But as this 326 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: example shows, they are criminally irresponsible in taking any attempts 327 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: to stop it. That's the problem. It's not that like 328 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: there are some bad apples. It's that they're kind of 329 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: like the cops. They just like they enable the bad apples. Yeah, 330 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: it's like they literally have a basket of like with 331 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: a with a foundation of poison and they're going on, 332 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: some of these apples are bad. It's like you're poisoned 333 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: the best you poured cyanide into an apple basket and 334 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: then you're pissed in it. This is directly your fault. Yeah. Now, 335 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: among other things, that story is why I think Jacuzi 336 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: ownership should require a license. Um. But besides, that's another 337 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: two part. Now, despite the fact that this guy had 338 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: repeatedly engaged I think we can agree it's pretty outrageous 339 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: and public abuse of children. The s A National office 340 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: didn't realize he'd snuck back into the organization until nine again, 341 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: almost twenty years, and they only realized this because another 342 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: local scouting official reported that Steve Field, who was at 343 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: that point chairman of a local troop committee, had been 344 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: arrested for masturbating in front of a child. So he 345 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: doesn't get kicked out by the boy Scouts, he gets 346 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: arrested by the cops, and a local scout is like Hey, 347 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: you guys should know this guy. Turns out he was 348 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: a child molester. This local official doesn't know this guy 349 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: as a record, but he sends this in to report 350 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: this guy. And the people who run the PEA files 351 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: are like, oh, Steve Field, it's the same as Stephen Field. 352 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: How could we have known? Because ingenious criminal mind. They're 353 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: just like the cop comes and goes like, oh, this 354 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: you know this guy he's got arrested, you know, for masturbation, 355 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, you mean creepy Steve. Steve the rapist. 356 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: Steve the rapist is yeah, he's been doing that. He's 357 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: been doing that for a while. Why we call him 358 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: creepy Steve? Yeah, wacky Steve don't leave alone with your 359 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: kids anyway, is in charge of the kids. So, for 360 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: what it's worth. Once the Sheriff's department actually got involved 361 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: with Steve's case, which should have fallen into their lap 362 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: around twenty years earlier, they launch a serious investigation. Um 363 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: and again all of the police aside. One of the 364 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: things they have a better record of taking seriously, although 365 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: not a perfect one, because a lot of cops are 366 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: child molesters, generally detectives who find out the kids are 367 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: being raped, are like, well, this is probably important. It's like, 368 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: it's just the thing. Even if you're a fucking cop. 369 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: Most people you hear a child as being abused and 370 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, we gotta about this. Yeah, most cops, uh, 371 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, obviously a cab, but not a you know, 372 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: can all cops students deliberately enabled child molestation whatever that 373 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: they hear about this guy And generally this is the 374 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: case like twenty years in like with these abusive adults. 375 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: And that's when finally ship happens. This guy gets arrested, 376 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: and it's because like the b s A can't hide 377 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: it anymore. Um. Child pornography was found in fields as 378 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: home of photos he'd taken of nude boys. Nude boy 379 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: scouts as far back as fifteen years ago are found. 380 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: And when the cops realize this guy has been praying 381 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: on boy scouts for more than a decade, they asked 382 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: the National Office, you can have a file on this guy, 383 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: and the B s A sends the p file for 384 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: for Fields to or for Field to them, but they 385 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: send it along with a request. And here's the a 386 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: cab part. Because the cops abide by this request. We 387 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: hope you will use this information with discretion. Since we 388 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: have tried to maintain our files, they cannot be subpoenaed 389 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: in any legal action. Wow. If again, if you're of 390 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: cops are better people than they are, if you're a 391 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: decent person, my first question would be, this guy raped kids. 392 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: Why don't you want this subpoena? Like why why why? Why? Why? Why? 393 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: And any why are you not like throwing your doors 394 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: open to to this, Like why why not let this be? 395 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: He's raping kids? Like God, I mean, so the cops 396 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: they abided by just an arbitrary like, oh, if you 397 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: could do us a favor, and like they're probably all 398 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: boy scouts, a lot of cops, Like fucking half of 399 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: congress people were boy Scouts, Like have congressmen or whatever, 400 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: like a huge percentage, Like all almost all of our 401 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: recent presidents have been either boy Scouts or equal Scouts. 402 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: Like it actually does mean a lot to a lot 403 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: of it. So like there's a story that could have 404 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: gone badly from my childhood. When I was a kid, 405 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: I think like thirteen or fourteen, I would go every Saturday, 406 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: I would go with my friends to a hobby story 407 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: and we would play Warhammer, and then we at one 408 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: point started wanting to play D and D, which I 409 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: started playing in the Scouts, and like the people who 410 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: we found to play with us were this guy was 411 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: like nineteen at the time, he just graduated high school 412 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: and was in college. And a dude who was almost thirty, um, 413 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: who's like an engineer, and that dude invites us all like, well, 414 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: on Saturday night since the hobby shop closes like five, 415 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: just come over to my house, um, and we'll all 416 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: play D and D until like midnight. And like my 417 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: parents here this and they're like, okay, well that's a 418 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: little quite. He's like almost thirty, like this concerns us. 419 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: And this other guys in a old too, but both 420 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: of them were Eagle Scouts. So my parents were like okay, 421 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: and it was like they were like there was fine, 422 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: like nothing, like these people were huge positive influences on me. 423 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: Like I don't want to like I'm trying. They were 424 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: both very positive parts. But you like that's why my 425 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: parents trusted them as they were right. There's an intrinsic 426 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: intrinsic trust and like, oh, these people are part of 427 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: this organization that I have nothing but my dad was 428 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: an Eagle Scout you know. Um. Yeah. So anyway, just 429 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: culturally this, I think this is part of why the 430 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: cops play ball with the B s A for so 431 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: long and don't make more of an issue about this, 432 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: is that like a lot of them were probably boys 433 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: get someone. They were probably trip leaders, you know. You know, 434 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: there were a bunch of like cop kids and stuff 435 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: in Boy Scouts when I was in the Scouts. Um, obviously, 436 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: but I mean it's it's kids getting fucked. It's like 437 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: that's why. Yes, yeah, But I think from the cops 438 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: pursuit was like, well, we're getting this guy, and we 439 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: don't like to we don't want to tarnish because their 440 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: cops like they protect organizations from shitty They're like cops 441 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: are often horrified at things other cops do. They just 442 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: cover it up because they believe in the institution. I think. 443 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: So I think they're they're they're willing to do that 444 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: for the Boy Scouts, but they have so much room 445 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: for It's just it's like it's one of things. It's 446 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: like not just sending it, like I'm just explaining the 447 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: thought process, and I think it's just thinking about it. 448 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: It's like if I'm a cop, and I'm like, Okay, 449 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna back up. All these cops don't 450 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: matter fucking what. And then someone throws out another organization like, 451 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: oh yeah, this is like the rape organization, Like al right, 452 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: I have room in my Laurel compass for one more 453 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: organization to defend. It is worth noting that at this 454 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: point they're not thinking about this is the rape organization. 455 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: This is the seventies, this is the Boy Scouts. This 456 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: we don't want to let another this is already terrible. 457 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: We don't want to also defame this beautiful organization. And 458 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: you know it does a lot of good at the 459 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: same time. Um, it is not until I think the 460 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: first really big academic quality work on sexual abuse within 461 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts is that book we've been quoting from 462 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: Scouts on it, which we'll have LinkedIn. The whole book 463 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: is available online right now. Is published in nineteen ninety 464 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: four by guy named Patrick boyle Um. And it was, 465 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: I mean it was. I don't think it did super 466 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: well at the time. Obviously, I think he got a 467 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: lot of ship for publishing it, but it's not a 468 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: fun read of the heroes in this story one of 469 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: them has to be Patrick Boyle for being in like, 470 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: people need to know that this is a systemic problem, 471 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: and it was not until three or four years ago 472 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: that it became mainstream knowledge how systemic the problem was. 473 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: He's well the curve, yeah, because I I started hearing 474 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: about this stuff with the Yeah yeah, and the fact 475 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: that this book came out ye is crazy to me. 476 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And you know what else is ahead of 477 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: the curve is the products, the products and services that 478 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: support this podcast, way ahead of the curve. The Patrick 479 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: Boils of their day. Good say, Okay, we're back. So 480 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: Fields or Field gets arrested for abusing two thirteen year 481 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: old boys and sentence to twelve years in prison when 482 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: the l A. Times found him. Because he's out of 483 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: prison by the time, these l. A Times articles are 484 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: very recent, we'll talk about why. And I'm reading from 485 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of different l. A. Times articles because they 486 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: have done as far as I can find, the best 487 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: journalistic reporting on on abuse within the boy scouts. Um So, 488 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: when they find this guy, right, because he's he's out 489 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: of prison now he's working, I think he's a fucking 490 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: lawyer or something. Um No, might have been in finance. 491 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: I forget exactly, but they find him. He's like out 492 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: in free and like working, and they interviewed him and 493 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: he admitted to abusing the kids he'd been convicted of abusing, 494 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: but the night allegations that he'd abused any other kids, 495 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: even though absolutely of course, but the kids. Yeah, The 496 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: Times informed him that he'd been on a blacklist since 497 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one in the Boy Scouts. And when they said, like, 498 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: did you know the Boy Scouts had a file blacklisting you? 499 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: He told them like, no, I had no idea. That's 500 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: surprising because I was able to stay in the Boy 501 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: Scouts for years. Yeah, the Boy Scouts. The child molester 502 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: told them it's like a no fly list. If your 503 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: name is on the no fly list, you shouldn't be 504 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: able to get on a plane. Like the pedophile is 505 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: baffled by how easy it was for him to get 506 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: back into the Boy Scouts, Like, yeah, they really shouldn't 507 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: have allowed this. You're not wrong, pedophile, But like, yeah, 508 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: you're not wrong. This was like a miscarriage of justice 509 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, as the guy who raped those kids, 510 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: you have adequately accurately identified the issue or molested, Like 511 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, like so yeah, and it is that 512 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: really Like that goes to show how fucked up the 513 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: B s A is because when the pedophile your organization 514 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: allowed you repeatedly harmed children in your care, throw shade 515 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: on you for your irresponsibility and letting him in. That's 516 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: a that's a that's an epic funk up like you 517 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: have failed so comprehensively. I don't have a word for it. Yeah, 518 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: that's a. There's a signal there. Yeah. Yeah. That Times 519 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: article goes on to tell the story of Scout Master 520 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: Allan C. Dunlap of Fresno, California, who was arrest to 521 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three on suspicion of having abused several children. 522 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: Done Lap pled guilty to four counts of molestation and 523 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: was committed to a psychiatric hospital. The Scouts created yet 524 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: another P file on him. Thirteen years later, in nineteen 525 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: eighties six, Dunlap was out of the hospital and registered 526 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: is a Scout volunteer in Brian, Texas. It isn't yeah, 527 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: you're gonna be saying that a lot, my friend. It 528 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: does not appear that anyone even checked the blacklist before 529 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: registering him, which gets at the chief problem with the 530 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: whole system. The B s A actually did a pretty 531 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: good job of documenting guys who had been caught or 532 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: accused of sexual assault. Right, they're very thorough in like 533 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: when stuff gets in they do put it all on 534 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: this file. But there's still no I can remember Baden 535 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: Powell doesn't want there to be a big barrier to entry. 536 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: There's for most of this period, the sixties, seventies, eighties, 537 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: there's no real screening process. Most again, as we said, 538 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: like that one Scout troop had like they chose to 539 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: do like a polygraph test, which polygraphs are problematic, and 540 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: obviously they just sent him to another troops. So like 541 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: it there there are there are though it's worth it 542 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: an individual because it's a very decentralized organization. Some troops 543 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: do have really good, like you know, uh policies in 544 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: order to screen people, but nationally there's nothing, and this 545 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: blacklist only a handful of people at the top have 546 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: access to it, and they don't run every name through 547 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: it like there's now when a guy joins a Scout 548 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: troop and fucking Texas they don't, or in fucking like 549 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, Maine, they don't send his name into 550 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: the national file to scan it. They do nothing. They 551 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: only find out afterwards, so it's useless. It's fucking other 552 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: than like as documentation that a lot of guys are 553 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: repeatedly molesting kids in the Boy Scouts. It's it's just 554 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: a fun way to get a nice list going, but 555 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: there's nothing. It does nothing to protect children are very close. 556 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: The boys goes, well, no, there's actually this X number 557 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: of men that we stopped because they were in the 558 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: blacklist and someone recognized it. Not to say it never happened, 559 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: but like clearly it was not an effective protecting system 560 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: and they knew it at the time. UM so yeah, 561 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: of course. Uh So after this guy gets you know this, 562 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: this dude is arrested and kicked out of the Scouts 563 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: and seventy three after abusing some children. Thirteen years later, 564 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: he becomes a Scout volunteer in Bryan, Texas, um and 565 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: he immediately gets back to sexually assaulting children. He was 566 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: eventually caught and pled guilty to abusing a nine year 567 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: old cub Scout. He was sentenced to twelve years in prison. 568 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: A local official learned this and called the National bs 569 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: A office to report Dunlap so he could be added 570 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: to the p files. And the National Office realized already 571 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: had a file on the guy. They added, here's what 572 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: they do. Actually, it's even worse than that. They just 573 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: add a note to his file for words convicted again, Dad, 574 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: child molestation, Jesus Christ. Come on, guys, attendum he done 575 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: it again, He done it again. We might have a problem. 576 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: D This is all pretty bad, but it gets worst worse. 577 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: Both of those actually the l A Times rites quote. 578 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: In some instances, the Boy Scouts of America chose to 579 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: give alleged molesters a second chance. In deposition, Ernst, then 580 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: keeper of the national file, testified that alleged abusers were 581 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: given probation, which required periodic updates on the person's behavior, 582 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: only if evidence of molestation was quote extremely weak. An 583 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: individual's confidential file was generally destroyed after probation was completed, 584 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: but the file sometimes survived when the men went on 585 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: to abuse again. Several of those cases suggests the initial 586 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: evidence of abuse was strong. Again. The b s A 587 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: policy is air on the side of believing the child 588 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: molester when he denies having molests a kid. Oh my god, God, yeah, 589 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you could find there's there have 590 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: to be statistically millions of people a couple of cases 591 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: of kids who lied because they were angry at it, 592 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it happened. Umatistically, we have thousands, like hundred, 593 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: minimum hundreds and hundreds and and probably like by some accounts, 594 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: thousands of cases of people molesting kids repeatedly within the 595 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts like there, but again they are on the 596 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: side of protecting the adult, not children. In their entire 597 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: job should be to protect these children, right, I mean, 598 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: that's literally what their their job is. It's like teaching 599 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: them how to fend for themselves. I mean, my my 600 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: scout master, who was I mean, he was a great 601 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: Scout master. He did something horrible for Raytheon that we 602 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: don't know entirely what, Like a bunch of the guys 603 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: who taught me at a camp were all Raytheon engineers. 604 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: It's like plain oh like that's but anyway, he, like 605 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: his attitude was, my only job is to stop kids 606 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: from dying. So like, you go out there, he'll teach 607 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: you to He would teach us anything we wanted to learn. 608 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: He would help us learn, but he didn't do anything 609 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: for you. So if you were miserable for days, if 610 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: you funked up, if your ship got soaked, if you 611 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: like lit your tent on fire, like you can camp 612 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: out under the stars or whatever, Like, my only job 613 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: is to stop you from dying, because it's about self reliance. Um, 614 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: but it's still very He took safety, like our physical health, 615 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: very seriously, and that's not what the Boy Scouts are, 616 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: protecting the adults above the children, like the organization nationally. 617 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: And again, I had a lot of great Scout leaders who, 618 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: while they may have been war criminals, UM, always put 619 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: the safety of the kids in the in the Boy 620 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: Scout American kids. I didn't know what raytheon was at 621 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: the time, not the Iraqi kids. I mean, good, God 622 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: only knows what they were actually like working on. UM. 623 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, you can only care about so many kids, Robert, 624 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah you can look um so uh. For an example 625 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: of how the Boy Scouts would protect and give second 626 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: chances to child molesters, let's talk about Mark F. Bum Garner. 627 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: He was a twenty one year old assistant Scout master 628 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: in North Carolina. In September nine, he was at Camp 629 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: Shield helping to manage a camp with several other adult leaders. 630 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: Late one night, after most scouts and adults had went 631 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: to bed, he struck up a conversation with another boy. 632 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: I think they're just like sitting around a camp fire 633 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: and they talk for a while. Everybody else goes to sleep, 634 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: and quite suddenly, when they're alone, bum Gardner sticks his 635 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: hand into the boy's pants and fondles his genitals. The 636 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: boy tells him to stop, so bum Garner says, the 637 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: cartilage in your penis is similar to your nose, and 638 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I can break it Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, 639 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: like I try not to get on the whole, like 640 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, vengeance side of things. But just shoot that guy. Yeah, 641 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: just just shoot that guy. We don't need that guy. 642 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: Kill that Yeah, just kill that It's just like, you know, 643 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: sometimes you fantasize about a righteous kill, you know, yeah 644 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: that would yeah, just just a little little little shallow 645 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: grave in the woods, you know, just like just the 646 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: planet benefits a little bit this one murder. I think 647 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: when you threaten to break a child's penis when your hand, 648 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: if he tells about you molesting him, you don't deserve 649 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: to live that anymore. That's that's the that's the end 650 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: of your right to exist, I argue it is my opinion. 651 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: It's funny because, like before this podcast, I never thought 652 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: there were levels of pedophilia in which I would that. 653 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: That's a high one, right, yeah, that's one. I was like, Oh, 654 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: he's like, I mean, yeah, pedophilia is evil, but he's 655 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,959 Speaker 1: like evil and evil. Yeah, he's I think the pedophiles 656 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: are disgusted by that. Like he could not Yeah anyway 657 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: like that. He that's like the worst level probably of 658 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: pedophilia that I can imagine, is that's that kind of thing. Yeah, 659 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: that's that's the top of the pedophile pyramid. Um. So, 660 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: after this horrifying experience, the kid went to his father, 661 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: who reported this to the Boy Scouts rather than to 662 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: the police. The b s A investigated the matter, and, 663 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: after what the National Office described as a considerable discussion, 664 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: decided that bum Garner deserved a second chance. Of all 665 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: would be it would be still bad, but different if 666 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: was like, well he was caught, um, you know, massaging 667 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: a boy in his jacuzzi and the boy's shirt was off, 668 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: and like whatever, like that's bad to to let that 669 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: go on. He threatened to break a child's penis. Give 670 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 1: a second chance, to that. Jesus. Fuck. Yeah. The reason 671 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: why is because bum Garner was an Eagle Scout and 672 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: the son of the pastor whose church sponsored the troop. 673 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: Yeah there it is, Yeah, there it is. So he 674 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: kept working for the Boy Scouts, spending time in close 675 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: proximity with children absolutely unmonitored. He was arrested several months 676 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: later for sexually abusing two Scouts during a camp out. 677 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: He pled guilty and was expelled by the National Office, 678 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: who added yet another name to the p files six 679 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: years later. Oh yeah, you thought this was done. You 680 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: thought we were done with bum Garner. Come on. Six 681 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: years later, bum Garner gets out of jail and back 682 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: into the Boy Scouts. He moves from North Carolina to 683 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: Virginia and he becomes assistant District commissioner to the Fairfax 684 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. This was nineteen eighty four. It was two 685 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: years later, nineteen six before the National organization realized that 686 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: this peedoophile had gotten back in. They didn't find it 687 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: out on their own. They was convicted, convicted pedophile. Yeah, 688 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: and they only find out that he's gotten back in 689 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: because he gets convicted again. He gets caught sexually battering 690 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: two boys and sentenced to six years in prison. Just like, 691 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: just how could we have known? What? How could we 692 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: have known? Every single time? This is the Los Angeles 693 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: Times continues. Probation was also given to Floyd David Slusher, 694 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old stafford a Boy Scout camp in 695 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: Germany who was caught up using a scout in nineteen 696 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 1: seventy two and sent home to the United States. Even 697 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 1: after he was caught, they had to physically restrain him 698 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: from attempting to visit the scout he was molesting, A 699 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: scout's official wrote to headquarters. A file was opened, but 700 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: Slusher was allowed to continue working with scouts again. Another 701 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: voy Scout leaders like this guy is such fucking pedophile 702 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: that we had to physically stop him from going after 703 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: this kid after we caught him. Like it's like a 704 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: cartoon of a pedophile. Yeah yeah, family, boy scouts are like, 705 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: this guy deserves a second chance. When did the second 706 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: chance program started? Because you hear that, like, oh, they 707 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: gave a second chance, you assume it's something like, oh, 708 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: he like showed them some weird pictures and they decided 709 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: there was plausible, which again is not okay. But no, 710 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: these guys are like this is hardcore shitvicted fu rapists. Yeah, 711 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: and they're just like, yeah, I feel like we give 712 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: him a second chance. We had to see we had 713 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: to physically restrain the guy from doing formalistation. Yeah, like 714 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: come on, let me go. There was romantic So Slusher 715 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: also shouldn't let a guy named Slush or do damn 716 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: near anything. Thatsolutely okay name. That's not an okay name. Um, 717 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: So he's allowed to keep working with the scouts, and 718 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: he goes on to molest at least eight boys in 719 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: a Boulder, Colorado troop, threatening to kill them if they 720 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: told anybody. According to the Boulder County Sheriff's apartment, Yeah yeah, yeah, um. 721 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: The detective in Boulder County wrote, quote, almost every boy 722 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: scout in Troops seventy five and Troops seventy three has 723 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: been approached sexually by Slusher on one time or another, 724 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: adding that the victims are too numerous to interview the 725 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: things like I can't interview all the kids he molested 726 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: because like, I don't have that kind of time. The 727 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: Boulder police don't have the time to top to all 728 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: of this. We're not authorizing any ot right now, so 729 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: we can investige single person. I mean, in fairness, they 730 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: probably had plenty to put him away, and he pleads 731 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: guilty to one account of sexually assaulting a child. Um. 732 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: The Boy Scouts continued the practice of offering probation and 733 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: suspension to prominent men accused of abuse until as the 734 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: result of a high profile abuse case in San Mateo, California. 735 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,959 Speaker 1: Richard Stengler was the adult head of a Sea Scout 736 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: It's unit, which is kind of like a for older 737 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: boys closer to adulthood, like elite, Like you're doing like 738 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: boat shit right, like it's doing cool stuff. It actually 739 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: was the thing I wanted to do, but Texas is 740 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: not as easy to do that kind of Um So 741 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: like the Boy Scout Navy, Yeah, the Boy Scout Navy. Yeah, 742 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: um you gotta. So that's always a red flag where 743 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: your organization starts and they have a Navy. It's especially 744 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: a red flag for the Navy. Yeah. I think all 745 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: the Marines in the audience would agree with that. Um So, 746 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: like you know, there's the goop cruise like that. You know, 747 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: it's like the boys. When you take to see probably 748 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: an issue. You know, someone says, you know, good people 749 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: don't take to see by the way, I'm crowdfunding to 750 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: buy a yacht for all of my followers to live on. 751 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna sail around the ocean. We're gonna look for gold. Um. 752 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: It's international waters anything, international waters, baby any there's no 753 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: laws in international water. Our own society are civilization, Sophie, 754 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: come on, come no hub Um alright, well, here's some ads. 755 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: We're back. I'm just sad, Symphie won't let me, won't 756 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,919 Speaker 1: let me. Hubbard alright, well okay, so um. This guy, 757 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: Richard Steingler Uh in seventy one is the head of 758 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,439 Speaker 1: a sea Scouts unit, and in seventy one he gets 759 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: charged with tying up and groping three boys. This was 760 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: the thing I alluded to in the first episode with 761 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: the restraints. Um, is that like a not do you 762 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: get a merit badge for? Yeah? I mean it's unfortunate 763 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: to say this, but a boy Scout troop leaders probably 764 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: in the most able to tie up a boy because 765 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: he's probably pretty good at knots. That really makes that 766 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: merit badge a lot darker, does it does? It's not great? 767 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: It's not great. Um. So he gets convicted and sent 768 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: in seventy one and sentenced to three years of probation, 769 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: which I might argue the court system failed there too, 770 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: because I think tying up and groping boys probably more 771 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: than three years probation, longer for like smoke hot for 772 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: like pot. Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, the Scouts suspended him during 773 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: this period, but they didn't kick him out. When his 774 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: probation ended, a local Scout executive and a number of 775 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: parents lobbied for his suspension to be lifted. So clearly 776 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: this guy had some sort of charism was good at 777 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: like convincing parents. I don't know what he fucking told them, 778 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: maybe like it was a merit badge thing gone wrong. Um, 779 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: but parents lobby for this guy, which is settling. I mean, 780 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 1: this is not again, we this is not an unheard 781 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: of kind of situation like this. This occurs in other 782 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: organizations and whatnot. Um sure, it's just like I mean, yeah, 783 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: actually to me, the Catholic Church, you know, not Yeah, 784 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: but but I understand a little bit more having like 785 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: basically the guy who talks to God being an important 786 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: figure in your life, and yeah, and like like standing 787 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: up for the organization and the church and maybe even 788 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: a specific priest in the church who's been accused of 789 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: something because you're like that dude talks to God. Who 790 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: am I to question that guy? These are fucking volunteer 791 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: Scout master. These are doing like cosplay and teaching know 792 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: how to whittle, and they're just like no, But he's 793 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,879 Speaker 1: a good dude. Yeah, he's he's good like it. I mean, 794 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: there's actually just a tremendous amount in common with like 795 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts and how this works and like, um 796 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church. Yeah, um, yeah, okay, um, all right, 797 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, let's get back into this. So, so this guy, 798 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: after tying up and molesting several boys, just three years 799 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: probation and when it ends, he gets successfully reinstituted to 800 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts. The local Scout officer who lobbied for 801 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,919 Speaker 1: him being brought back again, wrote quote, I feel quite 802 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: confident that no further problems will arise. Just fucking just 803 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: an organization of marks. Everyone is a fucking mark. Yeah. 804 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: Fourteen years later, in nine nine, a parent reported that 805 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: Stinger had padlocked her eleven year old boy in a 806 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: harness and watched as he hung in the air during 807 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: a boat trip. So that's good, that's fine. The b 808 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: s a called the police, and the police go to 809 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: Stinger's home and they search it and they find dozens 810 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: of restraints and an enormous cash of child pornography, naked 811 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: photos that he took of boys that he had blindfolded, 812 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: um and like tied to things. At least one is 813 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: a picture of a naked six year old boy that 814 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,879 Speaker 1: he blindfolded and tied to a bed um like profound 815 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 1: child abuse on a Yeah, and again they catch him 816 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: fourteen years later. He's doing this the whole time. That's 817 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: what the photos show that he'd been the whole time. 818 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: He gets back and he's just tying up in the lasting. 819 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: They call. They called the cops when he what did 820 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: he do to the kid? He like tied him up? 821 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: He yeah, he I don't even know if this was sexual, 822 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: if he was just like being a dick. Probably both. 823 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: But he'd like padlocked an eleven year old boy in 824 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: a harness and hung him in the air during a 825 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: boat trip. So his mom is just like, that's physical. 826 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: Be I don't think she called it in a sexual 827 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 1: but she was just like, that's assault. That's when they 828 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,240 Speaker 1: called the cos. Yeah, I mean, his mom calls the cops, 829 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: like her credit. This is probably the first she's a 830 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,879 Speaker 1: wearing anything's wrong and she I mean he was like, yeah, 831 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: we need to deal with this ship. And the cops 832 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: search his house and find out that he has been 833 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: tying up and restraining and molesting kids for fourteen years 834 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: and has tons of pictures of it. So this guy's 835 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 1: like both like a sexual abuser and just a literal 836 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: fucking psychopath. Yeah yeah, this guy's not that there's bets 837 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: of both, but dangerous, dangerous person. Yeah fucking ship. So 838 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: when all this dropped, more than twenty four former and 839 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: current Scouts came forward to report that they had been 840 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: abused by Stinger. Some had been victimized as early as 841 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight. Up until two thousand fifteen, the Chief 842 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: Scout Executive, effectively the head of Boy Scouts, was a 843 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: guy named Wayne Brock. Wayne got that August position in 844 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve after a four year stint as the 845 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Scout Executive. Before he held this national position 846 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: in seven, Wayne was the local Boy Scouts executive for 847 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. That year, a Scout master at 848 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: a camp in his domain was accused of molesting a 849 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: boy in a sleeping bag. Wayne followed procedure, which at 850 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: the time meant documenting the allegation and sending that documentation 851 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: onto Texas. The leader's name and crimes were added to 852 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 1: the confidential files. The scout master was expelled, but the 853 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: police were not informed. He left town, Rock was promoted 854 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: again and again, and eventually wound up running the Boy 855 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: Scouts as a different Los Angeles Times article notes quote. 856 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: As he and his recent predecessors rose through the ranks 857 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,320 Speaker 1: of Scouting, they handled at least a hundred and twenty 858 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: cases of suspected sexual abuse dating from the mid nineteen seventies, 859 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: according to a Times analysis of constant confidential Boy Scout files. 860 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: As district executives, it was their job to gather evidence 861 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: and witness statement, determined whether to recommend a leader's expulsion, 862 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: and report their findings to headquarters, which made the final decision. 863 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: In the process, the officials had a front row seat 864 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,240 Speaker 1: on cases in which scoutings abuse prevention policies failed. Although 865 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: the officials may have followed Scout policy and violated no laws, 866 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: the files in several cases indicate that they did not 867 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: inform authorities or their communities of suspected child molesters who 868 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: were expelled from the organization. So this is the guy 869 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: who runs the Boy Scouts, right, his history, which is, 870 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, he's not a molester himself, but he has a, 871 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: shall we say, imperfect history of dealing with cases where 872 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: kids are molested and they all all of their last 873 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: names are just read we got Stinger, we got Brack, 874 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,839 Speaker 1: we got Slusher. Yeah. Yeah, like problems, I mean, just 875 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 1: like they sound like a really scary a team. Yeah. 876 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: So this is the guy who runs the Boy Scouts 877 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: um and his predecessor, the guy who had headed the 878 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: b s A before him, was a guy named Robert Mazuka. 879 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: And before Robert Scary I know, I know, and before 880 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: he ran the Boy Scouts, Mazuka spent twenty years as 881 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: a regional Scout executive in California. In Pennsylvania, he dealt 882 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: with numerous cases of child sexual abuse by adults and scouting. 883 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: One of these was the case of David Cooley, an 884 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: assistant Scout master in Pittsburgh who was expelled in nineteen 885 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: nine seven after police found videos that he'd made of 886 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: himself having sex with children. Cooley was eventually sentenced to 887 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: fifty four years in prison. When the case broke, it 888 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: came out that Mazuka had earlier been arrested and convicted 889 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties seven from molesting a boy in South Carolina. 890 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: He'd been allowed to volunteer and scouting and molest kids 891 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: after that because the Boy Scouts did not require background 892 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: checks at that point. And this brings us to a 893 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: particularly dark part of the story. Oh are we going 894 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,839 Speaker 1: to get dark now? We're finally gonna get dark man. Yeah. So, 895 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: if you'll remember, back at the very start of this story, 896 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: back at the very start of Scouting, Robert Baden Powell 897 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,440 Speaker 1: had rejected the idea that scouting volunteers should be filtered 898 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: under the stification that this would reduce the number of 899 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: adults who volunteered and slow expansion. Now, at that time, 900 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: even though kids were being molested, child sexual abuse was 901 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: not a widely understood phenomenon. By the nineteen eighties, this 902 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,760 Speaker 1: had changed. A number of high profile cases of abuse 903 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 1: of children had led several other leading youth groups to 904 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: institute criminal background checks for their adult volunteers. Criminal background 905 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,399 Speaker 1: checks first became widely possible in nineteen eight five UM 906 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,440 Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighties six, the Big Brothers Big Sisters 907 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: organization made this a requirement for volunteers, and the Boys 908 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: and Girls Club did the same thing in the same year. 909 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: As soon as this becomes possible, responsible organizations who take 910 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: care kids are like, well, of course we should do 911 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: criminal background checks and our adult volunteers obviously, Um, that 912 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: just makes sense. The Boy Scouts don't do this. Scouting 913 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: officials claimed that background checks would be too expensive and 914 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: would scare away volunteers too expensive. Again, it's it would 915 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: have cost tens of millions. They made hundreds of millions. Yeah, 916 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: I was gonna say the Boy Scouts they don't have 917 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: the money hash during period. Yeah, everyone's a volunteer or pays, 918 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: so they said that. They also argued that doing so 919 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: would it best to provide a false sense of security. 920 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,800 Speaker 1: Just read how many stories of guys with criminal records 921 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: getting back in the Boy Scouts. Um, they're like, listen, 922 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: it's gonna happen one way or another. Let me let 923 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 1: me promise you. Even with criminal background checks were not 924 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: kind of stop kids from adults from lasting. Kids don't 925 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,800 Speaker 1: like that's just gonna do it. It's still got to happen. 926 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 1: But our job is to help Pedophile Scout for Boys. Yeah, 927 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: that's the name of the organization. Oh man, oh god. 928 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: Be prepared as a model. That means be prepared to 929 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,360 Speaker 1: get most Yeah, you be prepared for what the adults 930 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: and this organization are going to do to you. So 931 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts didn't just refuse to require criminal background 932 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,319 Speaker 1: checks for their volunteers. They board huge amounts of money 933 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 1: into lobbying local governments because states start to be like, well, 934 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,280 Speaker 1: we as a state want to require FBI background checks 935 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: for youth volunteers for organizations anywhere in the state, and 936 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: the b s A lobbies local elected leaders to stop 937 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: these laws. It's it's I don't I don't understand like 938 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: at that, but at that point you're just you're delened 939 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: directly enabling it. This is at all like is this 940 00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,320 Speaker 1: like an Epstein thing? Like yes, Like what is going 941 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: on purpose? At this point? It sounds on purpose. I 942 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,640 Speaker 1: can't even logical reason. Yeah, I think someone just because 943 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,279 Speaker 1: like this is the way it's always been. I think 944 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 1: some of it might some of it is probably that 945 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,400 Speaker 1: there are pedophiles in the organization who are want this, 946 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,719 Speaker 1: and some of it might be well, shit, if we 947 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,759 Speaker 1: do this, people will find out how many adults have 948 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 1: been molesting kids in the Boy Scouts. Yeah, and that 949 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: that that's not gonna be good for us, burn the 950 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: p file or whatever. What the fuck I mean? God damn. 951 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,320 Speaker 1: So the b s A did not ultimately start requiring 952 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: criminal background checks for volunteers, and you want to guess 953 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: what year two thousand three, two eight. By this point, 954 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: hundreds and possibly thousands of men with criminal histories of 955 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 1: child molestation were allowed into the Boy Scouts. Most of 956 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,120 Speaker 1: these men went on to abuse more children from the 957 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: very earliest days after the decision not to require background checks. 958 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 1: This was recognized as a problem from yet another Los 959 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,399 Speaker 1: Angeles Times article. In n Scout committee chairman in St. Paul, 960 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: Minnesota decried the organization's half hearted screening in a letter 961 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,840 Speaker 1: to headquarters, b s A is only creating an illusion 962 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 1: of performing what they claim. K Russell Sias wrote to 963 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,800 Speaker 1: Scout chief executive Been Love. It becomes quite clear that 964 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: b s A is more concerned with passing the buck 965 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: than an accepting responsibility for those who are its adult leaders. 966 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 1: That same year, a Las Vegas Scout master with a 967 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,600 Speaker 1: criminal history of exposing himself to boys with arrested for 968 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,640 Speaker 1: sexually abusing a twelve year old scout. One parent said 969 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 1: casinos did a better job of screening workers. Honestly, yeah, 970 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,359 Speaker 1: the parent wrote to Scouting officials. The black eye which 971 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,000 Speaker 1: Scouting has suffered in this could easily have been avoided 972 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 1: if the council had taken the simple expedient of doing 973 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:23,399 Speaker 1: a background investigation. I'm mean, yep, yeah, yeah, I mean, 974 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't. I don't understand it at 975 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: this point. It wasn't the money. They don't want to 976 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,080 Speaker 1: pay the money at that time. Some that has to 977 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: be some of it because of what we're about to 978 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,399 Speaker 1: talk about, because it gets worse. We have not hit 979 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: bottom yet, Matt, Are you excited? I'm just like, if 980 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: my blood pressure goes any higher, mo fucking die. Yes 981 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: we have we have, oh boy. So, while the boy 982 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 1: Scouts are giving child molester's probation, covering up abused, refusing 983 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: background checks, YadA, YadA, YadA, children keep coming forward to 984 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,399 Speaker 1: tell their stories, and by the nineties again this book 985 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: comes out. It's getting more known, right that this is 986 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: a problem the organization has, and as a result, once 987 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 1: it becomes clear to people used to pay attention that 988 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: like this might be a systemic issue. Some parents of 989 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: kids who get molested try to soothe the organization, claiming 990 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,360 Speaker 1: a pattern of abuse enabled by the very structure of 991 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,239 Speaker 1: the B s A itself. Confronted with these threats in 992 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,400 Speaker 1: the form of children entrusted to the B s A 993 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: and abused by men that organization had refused to properly vet, 994 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: the boy Scouts viciously attacked the victims and their families. 995 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: In one case, two boys in Michigan alleged that they 996 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 1: had been molested quote, hundreds of times by a troop leader. 997 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,359 Speaker 1: The B s A denied any responsibility, and instead, in 998 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: court blamed their widowed mother. They claimed she had failed 999 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:46,719 Speaker 1: quote to provide adequate supervision over the volunteer they had approved. Wow, yeah, 1000 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: your fault, your kids got molested if you weren't watching 1001 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,320 Speaker 1: hard enough over the guy. That his whole job, according 1002 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: to the ethos of our organization, is to help, like 1003 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 1: single moms raised their kids. You didn't. It's your fault that. Yeah, 1004 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: you should have done a background check. Yeah, you should 1005 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,839 Speaker 1: have done a background check. Why did you do that? Yeah, 1006 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 1: don't you scream? Come on, And it gets worse from 1007 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: the l A Times quote. In two thousand two, Gerald Schwartz, 1008 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,919 Speaker 1: a forty two year old former Scout master in New York, 1009 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: admitted to abusing a boy in his troop in the 1010 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties after being secretly recorded saying he did something very, 1011 00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: very wrong and apologizing to the boy. Schwartz pleaded guilty 1012 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,920 Speaker 1: to four counts of sodomy and was sent to prison. 1013 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,440 Speaker 1: Despite the conviction and the victim's testimony that Schwartz raped 1014 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: me and forced me to perform oral sex on him, 1015 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,280 Speaker 1: the Scouts, in emotion to dismiss the subsequent lawsuit, contended 1016 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:42,319 Speaker 1: that the sex was consensual. What the fuck? Yep, wow, yeah, 1017 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 1: we gotta burn it down. This is yeah, we gotta 1018 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,879 Speaker 1: burn this ship down. This is not this is not salvageable. 1019 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,240 Speaker 1: This is not salvageable. Holy fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's bad. 1020 00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: That's the worst these guys are. You know, it's so 1021 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,560 Speaker 1: much worse than I thought it was. Yeah, really is. 1022 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not pro scout no more. No, no, 1023 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: this has definitely turned me around in the night. Yeah. Sorry. 1024 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties in Oregon, one man alleged that 1025 00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,759 Speaker 1: Scouting troop leader Timurd Dikes was allowed to continue his 1026 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: leadership position after he admitted to molesting seventeen boys, and 1027 00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,440 Speaker 1: this kid had been molested him after that. Yeah, it 1028 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,280 Speaker 1: took decades for one of the boys victimized by Dikes 1029 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,840 Speaker 1: to seek legal recourse, But when he did, at a 1030 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,480 Speaker 1: trial in two thousand ten, regional bs A official, Eugene 1031 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,400 Speaker 1: Grant blamed his parents for letting their children go to 1032 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,480 Speaker 1: Dike's apartment to work on merit badges and attend to 1033 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: Scouting sleepover. Which maybe there's some questionable parenting calls being 1034 00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,160 Speaker 1: made here, but you led him into your organization and 1035 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,600 Speaker 1: let him stay after he molested seventeen boys. And also, 1036 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,960 Speaker 1: like you know, it's like you're you were saying, it's 1037 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 1: like you trust, you trust him he scout right, Yeah, 1038 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,239 Speaker 1: but the boy Scouts representatives at in court his parents 1039 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: should have known better. I think it's criminal. You let 1040 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,640 Speaker 1: him stay in the Scouts after he admitted to molesting 1041 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,800 Speaker 1: seventeen boys, and the parents are the criminals. The funk 1042 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,839 Speaker 1: is wrong with you, these guys we gotta Yeah, I 1043 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: don't understand. I'm not going to say say that in 1044 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,240 Speaker 1: a court of law and not immediately into fire. Yeah, 1045 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, just like murder is wrong, right, yeah, kind 1046 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,799 Speaker 1: of in some kind. I'm not trying to say publicly 1047 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,719 Speaker 1: right now anything that's gonna get me in trouble, but 1048 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes murder is good. Yeah, that's a 1049 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:54,240 Speaker 1: reasonable thing to feel. Hearing this story, like they said 1050 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: these words out loud, and the fact that no one 1051 00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, I got to kill this guy 1052 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,440 Speaker 1: out like the value of brickings. That's a brick in 1053 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,239 Speaker 1: That's like somebody should just be like, Okay, I gotta 1054 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,920 Speaker 1: hit this guy with a brick. The brick. Yeah, you 1055 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,400 Speaker 1: don't get to say that and not get hit in 1056 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: the face with the brick. That's that's brick in words. Thankfully, 1057 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,160 Speaker 1: the Oregon jury rejected his line of argument and found 1058 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,400 Speaker 1: the Scouts liable for almost twenty million dollars in damages. 1059 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 1: This is the case. This is why we all like 1060 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: no in mass about the problem. Now. This case breaks 1061 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,160 Speaker 1: open the floodgates of abuse claims against the boy Scouts 1062 00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 1: um And it's during this case part of the discovery 1063 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,720 Speaker 1: and this like the p files are revealed and and 1064 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,120 Speaker 1: put into the public record because they're trying to show 1065 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,000 Speaker 1: like there's a pattern of abuse. Right, These guys keep 1066 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 1: getting in and abused in the boy Scouts let them 1067 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,440 Speaker 1: in again. Um, this is what led to all of 1068 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times articles we've quoted so far, because 1069 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,160 Speaker 1: once these things are made public, because if it's introduced 1070 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,920 Speaker 1: into like a legal case in that way, it's like 1071 00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: anyone can see that. So they start combing through this stuff, 1072 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: and it other they start doing, like other stuff gets released. Um, 1073 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,800 Speaker 1: it's it's the this is the blood in the water, 1074 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,000 Speaker 1: you know. Um. Journalists start finding out other details of 1075 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,640 Speaker 1: sorted voy Scout sexual abuse history, and more victims start 1076 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,520 Speaker 1: coming forward. An avalanche begins. One issue that confronted many 1077 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 1: victims is the fact that some states had very strict 1078 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,000 Speaker 1: laws regarding the statute of limitation for sex crimes. So 1079 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,920 Speaker 1: like a lot of these guys they were abused in 1080 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: like the fifties, you know, and like now as an 1081 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: adult who's like, these stories are heartbreaking. Some of these 1082 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,680 Speaker 1: men are like I was never I was abused in 1083 00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,880 Speaker 1: like the fifties the sixties. I was never able to 1084 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,360 Speaker 1: like have a relationship that I was I've never been 1085 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,600 Speaker 1: able to feel intimate with anybody like this is there's 1086 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,760 Speaker 1: cases of people who commit suicide one volt whether were molested, 1087 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, my brother became addicted to drugs 1088 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: and died of an overdose and like that he never 1089 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,439 Speaker 1: recovered from this. You know. It's I mean, anyone who 1090 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,960 Speaker 1: knows a victim of childhood sexual abuse knows how deep, 1091 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: like uniquely evil an act it is to inflict upon somebody. Yeah, 1092 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,280 Speaker 1: and how yeah the stories are just so when these 1093 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,680 Speaker 1: guys start realizing I'm not alone, people will believe me now, 1094 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: and also maybe if I speak up, this will help 1095 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 1: to protect other kids, you know. Um, So they start 1096 00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,600 Speaker 1: to come forward, but on a lot of states they 1097 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,200 Speaker 1: can't bring charges against the people who victimize them or 1098 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,800 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts because of the statute of limitations. So 1099 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,880 Speaker 1: many states, when they realize how many these kids are 1100 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,000 Speaker 1: out there, to their credit, a bunch of state lawmakers 1101 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,560 Speaker 1: put forward bills to expand the statute of limitations and 1102 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,720 Speaker 1: allow charges to be pressed further away from the time 1103 00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: of the abuse. To be like, well, ship, maybe we 1104 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: didn't really, we didn't make these laws considering everything that 1105 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: was happening, and like it's we need to we need 1106 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,280 Speaker 1: to allow these people a chance to get justice. The 1107 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,000 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts spend a fortune and lawyers and lobbying fighting 1108 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,480 Speaker 1: these bills wherever they crop up, once again, devoting for 1109 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,320 Speaker 1: huge financial resources which they said we're not worth spending 1110 00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: on background checks to try and make it harder for 1111 00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 1: boys victimized by BSA officials to seek justice. From the 1112 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,720 Speaker 1: Washington Post quote, the group retained lobbyists in Georgia and 1113 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: New York, where lawmakers say such action helped to all 1114 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,360 Speaker 1: proposals that included look back windows allowing adults to take 1115 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,680 Speaker 1: legal action over decades old claims. It is hired lobbyists 1116 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,520 Speaker 1: in Michigan, where similar proposals are being debated. The bills 1117 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: would give adults who were abused as children a second 1118 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 1: chance to file suit if they missed their first opportunity 1119 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,000 Speaker 1: under state law. Opponents of the state proposals, including the 1120 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts and Catholic arch Diocese, argued that open ended 1121 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 1: look back periods violate due process and would put groups 1122 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 1: in the tough position of defending themselves in cases from 1123 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:32,240 Speaker 1: the distant past. I love like the people the Scouts 1124 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,440 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church coming together, coming together, just like 1125 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,120 Speaker 1: a fucking rape. E Voltron trying to be like, well, 1126 01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 1: this is just wrong and this is I want to 1127 01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,680 Speaker 1: belabor a bit on the argument they're making, which is 1128 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,280 Speaker 1: that this is unfair because it puts us in the 1129 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,840 Speaker 1: position of defending our organization from actions that other We 1130 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,640 Speaker 1: weren't in charge of the Boy Scouts on this app 1131 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,520 Speaker 1: this was fifty years ago, completely different group of men 1132 01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,520 Speaker 1: who were in charge. Like, how can we be held 1133 01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: responsible today for the actions of two generations leaders from 1134 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,440 Speaker 1: two generations ago. Yeah, I don't think this is a 1135 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: good argument. For one thing, as we have discussed, the 1136 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,240 Speaker 1: historical records shows that the b s a's attitude towards 1137 01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: sex abusers and the ways in which you enable them 1138 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: and defend them has not wavered since the days of 1139 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,600 Speaker 1: Robert Baden Powell. From Baden Powell's time to the fucking 1140 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,480 Speaker 1: two thousands, the Boy Scouts are doing basically the same ship. 1141 01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: For another, the same officials who led the b s 1142 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 1: A in the late OTTs had been the ones in 1143 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,400 Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties furthering the height and ignored policies 1144 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: that enabled sexual abuse of children. In April of two 1145 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,800 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, an expert who had been working with the 1146 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 1: b s A estimated that as many as seven thousand, 1147 01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: eight hundred and nineteen adult volunteers and staff members had 1148 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,600 Speaker 1: sexually abused boys over the course of the b s 1149 01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: AS history. He suggested they were responsible for harming as 1150 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,040 Speaker 1: many as twelve thousand, two hundred and fifty four victims. 1151 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,480 Speaker 1: That's the b s AS expert right now. If that 1152 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,760 Speaker 1: were it, if that were the extent of the problem, 1153 01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 1: this would be a huge problem. But it turns out 1154 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,040 Speaker 1: that was a drastic underestimation. A little over a year later, 1155 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:07,080 Speaker 1: in November, after a series of lawsuits and settlements, more 1156 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,400 Speaker 1: than a hundred thousand alleged victims had come forward to 1157 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,920 Speaker 1: claim they had been sexually assaulted as children in the 1158 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,080 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. So that's a hundred thousand who have said 1159 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: I was a victim in the Scots. Yeah, and this 1160 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:26,440 Speaker 1: is in the last year. Fuck yes. The Boy Scouts 1161 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,400 Speaker 1: have filed for bankruptcy, claiming to be devastated by the allegations. Um, 1162 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,360 Speaker 1: there's a number of fucked up things in the fall 1163 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: out of this. One of the most the worst things. So, 1164 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts were stewards of a huge amount of 1165 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,840 Speaker 1: wild lands right for campgrounds and stuff, and they were 1166 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,400 Speaker 1: that they would take care of They've sold a bunch 1167 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,160 Speaker 1: of that to developers, a lot of that ship these 1168 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,080 Speaker 1: like this, like Pristine Wild they have been turned into 1169 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,479 Speaker 1: like housing developments and ship because the Boy Scouts went 1170 01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,320 Speaker 1: broke trying to defending themselves from all the rape that 1171 01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:58,840 Speaker 1: their members did. It's, um, it's just like a comprehensively 1172 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,440 Speaker 1: bleak story. Oh my god. They can't even redeem themselves 1173 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,000 Speaker 1: and make them like public lands. There is just to 1174 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,920 Speaker 1: sell it, to pay for lawyers to attack these kids. 1175 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,800 Speaker 1: If I can't touch kids on this land, then I'm 1176 01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 1: gonna fucking build condos on it. Yeah. Well, the story 1177 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:23,640 Speaker 1: of the Boy Scouts, I hate it. Yeah, oh my 1178 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:28,360 Speaker 1: good god, dude. I mean it's like usually when I 1179 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,640 Speaker 1: you know the name of the show behind the Bastards, 1180 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,200 Speaker 1: It's like usually it's like the plural is because you 1181 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,200 Speaker 1: have many episodes covering specific bastards. This is one. It 1182 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,360 Speaker 1: was just like one bastard at the beginning, and then 1183 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:45,360 Speaker 1: just an endless slew of bastards and and it's too 1184 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,440 Speaker 1: many bad. I think I'm on bastard overload. And yeah, 1185 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 1: I wanna I want to do some righteous murder. Let's 1186 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: do a righteous kill together, dude. Yeah, yeah, let's go, Um, Sophie, 1187 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,480 Speaker 1: can you uh can we can we like a get 1188 01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,800 Speaker 1: get come right off some some money for murder tools? 1189 01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,440 Speaker 1: Probably not? Well what about a boat so that we 1190 01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,680 Speaker 1: can go to international waters? Yeah? In international waters it's legal, 1191 01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:19,240 Speaker 1: so stop trying, come on, right, it'll be like sea 1192 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,520 Speaker 1: org but like but yeah, but good a good sea 1193 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:29,080 Speaker 1: org done it right? Good? There could not yet, So 1194 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,280 Speaker 1: you have a very closed mind towards sea orgs. And 1195 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair to all the good org 1196 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like uh like the I don't know the surfers. Yeah, 1197 01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:47,880 Speaker 1: they've probably a chill. Yeah, come on, m No, I 1198 01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,280 Speaker 1: don't think it's going to happen. Um, I mean, you 1199 01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: know we can. We can do it on land, I guess. 1200 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:58,240 Speaker 1: But the point is that I'm currently furious and uh, 1201 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm this is so eating. So I've had a good time. Yeah, 1202 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,720 Speaker 1: so you had a good time on my show. Well 1203 01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone's dissociating now, so, um, have a good 1204 01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:15,720 Speaker 1: time staring into the distance and uh yeah and just 1205 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:21,560 Speaker 1: kind of like thinking, yeah, yeah, I have a good 1206 01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,800 Speaker 1: time losing touch with your corporeal body as the rage 1207 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:31,240 Speaker 1: within you becomes transcendent. Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's a. 1208 01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,680 Speaker 1: It's a type of drug rages. It is a type 1209 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,880 Speaker 1: of drugge hall. Yeah, I'm just gonna get some ragel 1210 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,280 Speaker 1: hall on right now. I need a xan X. Yeah, 1211 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:44,080 Speaker 1: rage out with your page out. I don't know. I 1212 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: don't know. Boy, Matt, you got any plugables to plug? Um? Yeah, 1213 01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,840 Speaker 1: I do sopromos podcast. Pot yourself a gun check it out. 1214 01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,440 Speaker 1: We're about to start season six by the time this 1215 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,240 Speaker 1: comes out, well, season six, episode one will be out. 1216 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,919 Speaker 1: It's a it's a great show, film drunk broadcast, that's us, 1217 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,880 Speaker 1: but the same guys talking about movies. I wanted I 1218 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,160 Speaker 1: wanted to dedicate this to my my childhood friend Johnny Aaron. 1219 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,680 Speaker 1: Uh you know you listen to this show, Johnny are 1220 01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:14,800 Speaker 1: and you're a you're a good you're a good man. 1221 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,480 Speaker 1: Sorry it was the molestation one. Yeah, this is a 1222 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:23,680 Speaker 1: rough episode to get a shout out here, but you know, 1223 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:28,160 Speaker 1: fucking hey, you can't all be winners, you know, man. Yeah, 1224 01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:33,640 Speaker 1: thanks thanks for having me back. Yep, thanks for coming back. 1225 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:38,440 Speaker 1: And also sorry, oh