Speaker 1: On today's episode of Ticket of the Draft podcast, we're
Speaker 1: talking my favorite position, tight ends. We're also talking quarterbacks
Speaker 1: with Jeremy Green, one of the best draft analysts I know.
Speaker 1: By the end of the draft season he's gonna have
Speaker 1: over seven hundred guys done. And we're talking is Shad
Speaker 1: Or Sanders Batman. It all starts right now.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Ticket of the Draft Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Logan Paulson here with justin guy, Jason and our
Speaker 1: very very special guest Jeremy Green, who joined us at
Speaker 1: the combine and helped us and got us that podcast out.
Speaker 1: And it's always great having smart people on the show.
Speaker 2: Jeremy, how you doing.
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 4: I don't know when the smart guys showing us, but
Speaker 4: I'm really glad to be here.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll call you smart. You can call yourself dumb.
Speaker 1: That's totally fine. And just as a reminder, we are
Speaker 1: presented by Seakeek this summer. Seekeeek has your ticket to
Speaker 1: the best live concerts in the DMV at Northwest Stadium.
Speaker 1: Seakeek the official primary ticketing partner of Northwest Stadium. But
Speaker 1: today we're doing tight ends Jason, and we're doing quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: We're gonna start with tight ends because that's how you
Speaker 1: tease the more important position.
Speaker 5: I guess, yeah, absolutely, And there's no one better to
Speaker 5: talk to you than this than the highest riser at
Speaker 5: the combine. The stock price just shot through the roof
Speaker 5: with mister Jeremy Green here the ESPN draft nerd. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he was a savior for us out there when we
Speaker 5: had some technical difficulties, and he was also the guest
Speaker 5: on our number one show so far this year, highest
Speaker 5: rated show, this year, highest viewed show. I think it's
Speaker 5: all about him. It's nothing to do with the Deebo
Speaker 5: Samuel trade break. That has everything to do with him
Speaker 5: being one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Jeremy, So before we got started, we were.
Speaker 1: Talking about kind of tight ends and how you felt
Speaker 1: like this was a good one for people to kind
Speaker 1: of get used to your process. And you know, tight
Speaker 1: end is a really interesting position for me because I
Speaker 1: played it. But I guess, let's start off at the
Speaker 1: highest of levels, you know, like what kind of traits
Speaker 1: are you looking for and how do you start your
Speaker 1: evaluation process with a tight end? Because I think the
Speaker 1: position and what's important for the position has changed quite
Speaker 1: a bit over the last ten fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not as I like a tight end that
Speaker 4: can block, right. Very few of these guys that are
Speaker 4: coming in is really refined blockers because the game is
Speaker 4: so much different now than it was ten to fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago. So you get a guy like Tyler Warren
Speaker 4: that it makes me laugh every time I hear somebody
Speaker 4: say he's a good blocker.
Speaker 3: No he's not.
Speaker 4: He's not a good blas matter of fact, he's abjectly
Speaker 4: terrible at it. The only thing is that every other
Speaker 4: tight end in this class is worse at it than
Speaker 4: he is. So as you see that progression change where
Speaker 4: you get way less guys that come into the league
Speaker 4: as natural blockers. I think Terrence Ferguson is ant is
Speaker 4: a more natural blocker. Not necessarily great at it, but
Speaker 4: he's more natural at it. And I'm comparing him to
Speaker 4: Gunner Helm, who I'm reasonably sure couldn't he couldn't block me.
Speaker 3: I'm and right now my.
Speaker 4: Forty's fallen in somewhere about seven oh seven to one,
Speaker 4: So that's really not awesome. But then I look to
Speaker 4: a kid Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame that gets absolutely
Speaker 4: no love. I would say he's one of the better
Speaker 4: blockers in this class, which really kind of tells you
Speaker 4: how low end we are on that tip, because this
Speaker 4: is a guy that I'll say, when I first started
Speaker 4: doing this ten years ago, Mitchell Evans would have been
Speaker 4: a net negative as a blocker. Now he is a
Speaker 4: better contested catch guy. He's got a higher run block
Speaker 4: rate than the abject failures that some of these other
Speaker 4: guys have, so he's almost more of a balanced tight end.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: Now we were talking about the difference in my process,
Speaker 4: I coll probably seventy percent.
Speaker 3: Of the games you play. I do this with quarterbacks.
Speaker 4: I do with wide receivers, running backs, tight ends, basically
Speaker 4: everything that's not an offensive line.
Speaker 1: What you said seventy percent of the game, as you
Speaker 1: watched seventy percent of the games that you just.
Speaker 4: Said, yep, and then I call them immediately. I'll watch
Speaker 4: through the actual plays, Like I'm looking at Mitchell Evans
Speaker 4: and when I did the film breakdown on him, So,
Speaker 4: Miami of Ohio was out the window immediately, so was Stanford,
Speaker 4: so as Navy.
Speaker 3: So it was Florida State, Virginia.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: The ones that I really looked at with him were Indiana, Georgia,
Speaker 4: Penn State, Purdue, and Texas A and M. Because that's
Speaker 4: the those are the only teams he played that you're
Speaker 4: playing one on one, so you're getting a guy that
Speaker 4: might actually play in the NFL. Some of these other
Speaker 4: guys are gonna be selling insurance for Geico. I don't
Speaker 4: care that you can light that guy up. That doesn't
Speaker 4: mean anything to me. So I want to see what
Speaker 4: you look like, not necessarily third round draft prospect versus
Speaker 4: third round draft prospect, draftable talent versus draftable talent.
Speaker 3: And those are the tapes that I really look at.
Speaker 5: Now, Jeremy, you were mentioning blocking in there and that
Speaker 5: this class may not be great at blocking in your opinion.
Speaker 5: So my question is, like, what do you look for
Speaker 5: in a tight end? Is blocking like really high up there?
Speaker 5: If you're a good blocker, you moving them up the board.
Speaker 5: Because you mentioned before we started this show that the
Speaker 5: guy sitting here with us, mister Logan paulsy And who
Speaker 5: made a career out of just being a nasty son
Speaker 5: of a gun at blocking in the run game. You
Speaker 5: you said you scouted him at one point. You put
Speaker 5: that in there, right.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 4: He was the best blocker in the class that he
Speaker 4: in twenty ten. I think it was in twenty ten.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right.
Speaker 4: You were the best blocker in that class for me.
Speaker 4: And the Logan Paulson of this tight end class is
Speaker 4: Jackson Halls from Georgia Tech.
Speaker 2: My favorite.
Speaker 3: I knew that was going to be your favorite.
Speaker 4: I wrote him down of give Logan a chance to
Speaker 4: say this guy's name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's a guy that I just enjoy
Speaker 1: watching because he's super physical. And again, this is something
Speaker 1: that I have a really hard time with. And you
Speaker 1: talked about blocking in general, and I love your process.
Speaker 1: I love how you go through the games. I love
Speaker 1: how you select the guys with draftable talent. The thing
Speaker 1: that gets me is like Jackson Hawes is going to
Speaker 1: be a good pro in the NFL. Like he will
Speaker 1: have a role, he'll be the John Bates for some team.
Speaker 1: He'll play ten years in the NFL. But and it's
Speaker 1: an important part of the position. And he has soft hands.
Speaker 1: He's not a great rout runner, he's not a great separator.
Speaker 1: He's very similar to me as a player. The thing
Speaker 1: is is like, you'll play ten years, but where do
Speaker 1: you draft someone like that. Obviously, Jackson Hawes is from
Speaker 1: Georgia Tech. He's was excellent in the run game this year,
Speaker 1: really shows an aptitude and an intensity for it. But
Speaker 1: you know, Jeremy, how do you weigh that, like, because
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think i'd probably take him before
Speaker 1: the third or fourth round because again, the league doesn't
Speaker 1: value that skill set as much anymore, even though it
Speaker 1: is valuable to NFL rosters.
Speaker 4: So the way that I build my board and I
Speaker 4: just finished the initial big board, so I have three
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty nine draftable grade.
Speaker 2: Now you're a psycho.
Speaker 4: You're a psycho. I am a psycho. I need a life.
Speaker 4: People see my wife and they go, good, lord, how
Speaker 4: did you get a girl that attractive to marry you
Speaker 4: when you are a psychopath watching Tommy fedone tape at
Speaker 4: four am like a.
Speaker 3: Lunatic as she's patient.
Speaker 4: So the way I stack my board is I day
Speaker 4: three for me is more specialized. Guys, all right, So,
Speaker 4: whether it's Jackson Hawes that we were just talking about
Speaker 4: that is a blocking specific tight end or leaquent Allen
Speaker 4: the runback from Syracuse that I don't think he gives
Speaker 4: you anything as a runner but man, he's got really
Speaker 4: soft hands, and I'll use him as the third part
Speaker 4: of a running back committee, and I could keep doing
Speaker 4: that with different positions. That's what I'm looking for in
Speaker 4: day three. So I'm looking at I've got Jackson Hawes
Speaker 4: pulling up my board here. I have Haws in the
Speaker 4: back end around five. Okay, so he's he's in a
Speaker 4: really weird group because he's with I have four fifth
Speaker 4: round tight ends. They couldn't be more different if they tried,
Speaker 4: But I think they all have a value right there,
Speaker 4: depending on what you're looking for.
Speaker 3: So I love Hauls.
Speaker 4: If you're looking for the blocker Aronde Gatst that is
Speaker 4: really just a big slot.
Speaker 2: So he's an interesting prospect too.
Speaker 1: But that you said that, you kind of like put
Speaker 1: guys there because of specificity, Like he's a converted wide receiver,
Speaker 1: big dude, do you think he can consistently win those
Speaker 1: one on one matchups versus man coverage. That's the thing
Speaker 1: that gets me, because I do think he has some
Speaker 1: there's something to him, and I think he's going to
Speaker 1: get overdrafted because of the pass catching stuff.
Speaker 4: I it depends how you look at him. I think
Speaker 4: where people make mistakes with tight ends. A lot is
Speaker 4: Aronde Gaston is, So they converted him to tight end.
Speaker 4: What actually changed about what he does?
Speaker 2: Other than the.
Speaker 4: Two word or two letter acronym that they put beside
Speaker 4: his name. He's a tight end because you told me
Speaker 4: he's a tight end. In terms of his route tree
Speaker 4: and all those things, virtually nothing changed. Yeah, So really
Speaker 4: all he is is a big slot. He's a bigger
Speaker 4: slower slot. Now the question is do you run a
Speaker 4: scheme where that works. I'll give you a good example
Speaker 4: of one that ties into the NFC East. The Raiders
Speaker 4: ran a scheme for years where Darren Waller could win.
Speaker 4: Darren Waller was freakishly fast for a guy that.
Speaker 3: Was six'.
Speaker 4: Six, yeah but then he goes to The giants And
Speaker 4: giants don't run that, scheme so they're trying to play him.
Speaker 4: Inline he's not a big slot.
Speaker 3: Anymore.
Speaker 4: Now he's a really bad inline, blocker and it kind
Speaker 4: of ran him out of the league because he couldn't
Speaker 4: hold up physically to. That so if you're looking For
Speaker 4: Ronde gatson to be a big slot, receiver you're, fine
Speaker 4: AND i think he will. Win you're gonna have to
Speaker 4: scheme some of that. Out SO i mean having a
Speaker 4: receiver inside him Like Jalen lane From Virginia Tech Dante
Speaker 4: thornton From. TENNESSEE i need somebody that can take that
Speaker 4: safety over the top BECAUSE.
Speaker 3: I want him on a. Linebacker.
Speaker 4: Yeah and So i'm gonna scheme that he's not gonna
Speaker 4: play more than fifteen or twenty snaps for. Me that's
Speaker 4: why he's a fifth round grade for. Me BUT i
Speaker 4: can scheme that WHERE i get him into the right
Speaker 4: spot and THEN i can use what he.
Speaker 3: Does.
Speaker 2: Yeah and so who are the other two guys you
Speaker 2: have in the fifth? Round? There just as to kind
Speaker 2: of finish this, Example.
Speaker 4: Gunner helm who he? Did he did sprain his. Ankle
Speaker 4: i've seen the. PICTURE i Called shenanigans on the. Well
Speaker 4: he sprayed his. Ankles so of course he ran a
Speaker 4: four nine to. Five, nope that foot was not the right.
Speaker 4: COLOR i will give him a bullip on that four
Speaker 4: nine to. FIVE i didn't love him to begin with
Speaker 4: because he's A he's another one that's just a he's
Speaker 4: a big wide.
Speaker 3: Receiver he's a, big slow wide. Receiver.
Speaker 4: Yeah and Then Tommy fanlon out Of, nebraska WHO i absolutely.
Speaker 2: Love, YEAH i like Fid on a lot.
Speaker 1: Too, yeah The, nebraska and Again helm's out Of, texas
Speaker 1: And Orlando gats And Orandi gatz and excuse, me he's
Speaker 1: out Of. Syracuse so that's a really interesting group BECAUSE
Speaker 1: i think all those guys are PLAY nfl, minutes AND
Speaker 1: i think that really illuminates kind of the QUESTION i
Speaker 1: had for you at the, start which, is how do
Speaker 1: you value that because those guys are GONNA i think
Speaker 1: all those, guys maybe outside Of Gunner, Helm i'm probably
Speaker 1: a little lower on than, you just again BECAUSE i
Speaker 1: don't know what he does. WELL i don't think he
Speaker 1: separates versus man coverage the way That, Ronde gatz And.
Speaker 1: KEN i don't think he blocks in line the way
Speaker 1: that you Know Jackson hawes can From Georgia. Tech, like it's,
Speaker 1: interesting BUT i think all those guys will, play AND
Speaker 1: i think that's really good value for the. Position so
Speaker 1: THEN i guess my next follow up question would, be
Speaker 1: like you, know now let's get in your top five is,
Speaker 1: obviously where do you feel comfortable taking a tight end
Speaker 1: because it's a position that's not necessarily super valuable because
Speaker 1: of the. Contract, obviously you see people being successful The George,
Speaker 1: kittles The Travis kelsey as you Mentioned Darren, Waller so,
Speaker 1: like where do you feel comfortable taking the first tight?
Speaker 4: End and, why, oh If i'm taking the first, One
Speaker 4: i'm comfortable taking my number one at five?
Speaker 2: Five is that because of the drafts weaker this? Year
Speaker 2: or is that because he's that?
Speaker 4: GOOD i have three elite prospects in this? Class, okay
Speaker 4: So i've got so for, me anything over a nine
Speaker 4: to five is generational.
Speaker 3: TALENT i have three of.
Speaker 2: Those and WHAT i get out too is one of
Speaker 2: them a tight.
Speaker 4: End, NO i have a running back and a tight
Speaker 4: end that are my four and five. Overall, okay and
Speaker 4: they have just below generational. Number but then they get
Speaker 4: dinged because they play a position that is not as
Speaker 4: valuable to. Me, sure SO i multiply running back by
Speaker 4: zero point eight, NINE i multiply tight end by point
Speaker 4: nine to. Two so that brings your grade down just
Speaker 4: a hair because of positional. VALUE i think a good
Speaker 4: tight end that can that can play in, LINE a
Speaker 4: good tight end that can play kind of the role
Speaker 4: that they've tried to have For Kyle pitts and actually
Speaker 4: do it well where you can win on the outside
Speaker 4: that's such a matchup nightmare that WHEN i find one
Speaker 4: of those, GUYS i almost don't even want to ding
Speaker 4: them for being tight. Ends AND i think there's two
Speaker 4: of those in this. CLASS i love, that and SO
Speaker 4: i think that's that's a.
Speaker 1: REALLY i think that's that illuminates an issue that's going
Speaker 1: around THE, nfl is positional. VALUE i love how you
Speaker 1: have a multiplication set for. That, WELL i think that's a.
Speaker 1: REALLY i might adopt that actually moving, forward because that's so.
Speaker 1: Smart so let's start getting into the list a little.
Speaker 1: Bit let's go with your fifth tight end on your,
Speaker 1: board and Then i'll tell you my fifth and we'll
Speaker 1: kind of go through the.
Speaker 4: List SO i have three that are. Borderlines they've got
Speaker 4: almost the same. Grade there's three tenths of a points
Speaker 4: save right in them. All, Okay Harrold fannin at a buling, Green,
Speaker 4: okay that would be technically my. Seven Mitchell evans And
Speaker 4: Terrence ferguson have the same, grade so they're both my.
Speaker 1: Five, Okay, Okay Mitchell evans And Terrence. Ferguson, Okay so
Speaker 1: let's talk About Mitchell. Evans i'm, surprised not, surprised that's
Speaker 1: the wrong. Word you, KNOW i think he's a good football.
Speaker 1: PLAYER i think when you watch, him you see some
Speaker 1: of the stuff you talked, about the in, line the
Speaker 1: pass catching.
Speaker 2: ABILITY i worry about the raw. HORSEPOWER i think the.
Speaker 1: Position one of the ways you talked about, is you,
Speaker 1: know value is the running game is being, devalued but the,
Speaker 1: athletics the athletic traits of a tight end seem to
Speaker 1: be more. Valued and so WHEN i look at, HIM
Speaker 1: i wonder about his overall horsepower and if you can
Speaker 1: get it done at THE nfl. Level and IF i
Speaker 1: said that to, you what would you say to.
Speaker 3: ME i can't tell you that you're.
Speaker 4: Wrong that's the reason he's not higher for, me BECAUSE
Speaker 4: i want him to be my three in terms of
Speaker 4: just ability to play, football AND i don't really have
Speaker 4: a way to quantify. THAT i look at a tight
Speaker 4: end that has a seventy almost seventy three percent contested
Speaker 4: catch rate in, college of you're not going to separate
Speaker 4: particularly well at the next. Level But i've also said
Speaker 4: that about a handful of tight ends over the. Years
Speaker 4: one of the guys THAT i was the most dogmatic
Speaker 4: on when he came. Out this is WHERE i got
Speaker 4: the dubbing the tight end whisperer BECAUSE i couldn't believe
Speaker 4: that nobody saw. It The Baltimore ravens took two tight
Speaker 4: ends handful years, Ago Hayden hurst From South carolina THAT
Speaker 4: i think already qualified FOR aarp when he got, drafted
Speaker 4: and Then Mark, andrews AND i couldn't figure out why
Speaker 4: are people not seeing? This With, Andrews he's a natural route,
Speaker 4: Runner he's very. Crafty is he crazy? Fast?
Speaker 3: No is he a great?
Speaker 4: Mover? No but he knows how to play this baz
Speaker 4: and he knows how to settle down over the middle
Speaker 4: not get killed for one because he is a, bigger more,
Speaker 4: lumbering slower. Guy AND i say the same thing With Mitchell.
Speaker 4: Evans he's just a really crafty tight. End And i've
Speaker 4: watched those guys succeed in this league for a lot of.
Speaker 3: Years is it?
Speaker 4: Risky, absolutely because he can't win with straight line. Speed
Speaker 4: he's not going to win as a great route. Runner
Speaker 4: he's going to win because he's a really smart football
Speaker 4: player that knows how to play this.
Speaker 1: Position i'm really glad you brought Up Mark andrews because
Speaker 1: he's a guy for me THAT i THOUGHT i totally
Speaker 1: missed on the route running nuance when he was At.
Speaker 1: Oklahoma they didn't ask him to do a ton of,
Speaker 1: stuff but his rookiear in THE. Nfl you saw the,
Speaker 1: stems you saw the, breakdowns you saw him understanding his own.
Speaker 1: Coverage and SO i, mean if you Think Mitchell evans
Speaker 1: has that those, traits like that's something that again that
Speaker 1: would probably move me, up it would move him up my.
Speaker 2: BOARD i haven't seen that.
Speaker 1: NECESSARILY i think it's more of an offensive thing for,
Speaker 1: Me like they don't ask him to do a ton
Speaker 1: of super, complicated nuanced stuff, There BUT i think that's
Speaker 1: a really interesting value. Point, now let's talk About Terrence,
Speaker 1: ferguson who is your other. FIVE i have him as my.
Speaker 1: FOUR i really really like him a. LOT i think
Speaker 1: he's got kind of the opposite of what we're talking
Speaker 1: about With Mitchell. Evans he's got kind of this athletic course.
Speaker 1: Power he's not as technically, refined but he's got this
Speaker 1: kind of playmaker basketball athlete to, him WHICH i think
Speaker 1: translates really well to the next. Level he's got the
Speaker 1: length as.
Speaker 2: WELL i.
Speaker 4: Agree the thing that makes me a little nervous On
Speaker 4: ferguson is THAT i think people are gonna fall in
Speaker 4: love with the raw. Athletic the worst thing you can
Speaker 4: be to me is. Overdrafted if you told me Where
Speaker 4: Terrence ferguson, went, like you give me a pick. Range
Speaker 4: if it's sixty to seventy, FIVE i think his.
Speaker 3: Bus rates through the. Roof really every fifteen.
Speaker 4: Picks it gets better because you're gonna ask him to
Speaker 4: DO i don't want a team to ask him to.
Speaker 4: Do it's like you, said he's not refined in. This
Speaker 4: he's very much a Currently he's a really big kid
Speaker 4: that is still learning the nuance of playing tight. End
Speaker 4: he's the exact opposite Of Mitchell. Evans If Mitchell evans
Speaker 4: was In Terence ferguson's, body we'd be talking about him
Speaker 4: as to be or one, be or however you wanted
Speaker 4: to quantify. It because he has natural ability That Mitchell
Speaker 4: evans doesn't. Have the problem is THAT i don't want.
Speaker 4: Him i'll give you an. Example these are two very different,
Speaker 4: players BUT i think they have very similar. Situations isaiah
Speaker 4: likely a kid THAT i covered At Coastal. Carolina he
Speaker 4: goes To. Baltimore he plays Behind Mark andrews for two.
Speaker 3: Years this is year. THREE i think.
Speaker 4: If he had gone somewhere as a number one tight,
Speaker 4: END i wouldn't have loved him because he needed to
Speaker 4: develop all of those. Skills isaiah likely was a basketball
Speaker 4: player that played. Football it just so happened that his
Speaker 4: body type fit better because he wanted. It as a basketball.
Speaker 4: Player he was a host. Guy but he's only like six,
Speaker 4: three six, four so he never developed as a post
Speaker 4: because as time goes, On Terrence, Ferguson isaiah, likely all
Speaker 4: these guys find the same thing THAT i. DID i
Speaker 4: got to six' FIVE and. I stopped it's actually six
Speaker 4: four and, some change but six five. THIRS better i
Speaker 4: PLAYED like i was seven. Feet, tall well the problem
Speaker 4: is that all these guys keep getting BIGGER and. I
Speaker 4: didn't so The fact i'm, a big slow. Post player
Speaker 4: It's The jimmy. Graham Rule jimmy graham was a great,
Speaker 4: post player. Insanely athletic he translated that into becoming a
Speaker 4: great football player because he took the raw skills that
Speaker 4: he had and refined them. Over time if you had
Speaker 4: asked him to block, in line he would run him
Speaker 4: out of the league because he couldn't do it right
Speaker 4: if You Put terrence ferguson in the. Right Situation and
Speaker 4: i'm gonna be honest, WITH you I think washington is the.
Speaker 4: Right Situation if i'm. BEING hundredson i said THAT because
Speaker 4: i KIND of i loved Him.
Speaker 3: IN washington.
Speaker 4: I have your capital pulled up in front. Of me
Speaker 4: BUT if i could get to it, pretty quickly if
Speaker 4: you Told me washington took him with whatever pick you
Speaker 4: have in the, fourth.
Speaker 1: ROUND yeah i think we just traded in the trade
Speaker 1: for laramytunsl we got to, pick back, SO yeah. I
Speaker 1: agree i think that's kind of a luxury pick backup for.
Speaker 1: A year i think his skill set mirror Is what
Speaker 1: zach does, really well or it's obviously he's got that
Speaker 1: ability and they got, that UPSET and i do think.
Speaker 1: He's raw and the OTHER thing i wanted to bring
Speaker 1: up to you before we got into the Next person
Speaker 1: i'll tell you my five for in a Second is
Speaker 1: i'm hard pressed to think of a position outside of.
Speaker 1: Defensive end tight end now is where we're talking about
Speaker 1: that relies more on athletic traits in terms of translating
Speaker 1: to the. Next level how much does that factor into,
Speaker 1: your EVALUATION because i think it's one of those positions
Speaker 1: again that like you see the athletes, be successful the
Speaker 1: guys with the, long arms the guys with, the height
Speaker 1: the guys that can run the four, to six they
Speaker 1: are the guys that start AT the. Nfl level And
Speaker 1: Obviously mitchell evans isn't, that guy you know?
Speaker 4: For, Sure yeah so, FOR me i have three there's
Speaker 4: three archetypes of. Tight end, for me there's the, hyper athletic.
Speaker 4: Hyper talented then there's the hyper talented. Lesser athletic then
Speaker 4: there's the, lesser talented. Hyper athletic fanin is the super
Speaker 4: athletic Kid that i'm not sure you're all.
Speaker 3: THAT talented i.
Speaker 4: Think you've got a raw skill set that if a
Speaker 4: team is willing to, develop it kind of like they Did,
Speaker 4: with likely because that's who he reminds me of, a
Speaker 4: lot then you're going to. Be fine the PROBLEM that
Speaker 4: i Had with fannin WAS that i kept seeing him
Speaker 4: in that forty five. Ish range he's not a second round,
Speaker 4: tight end and if you put second round tight end
Speaker 4: pressure on him where he's got to come in and play.
Speaker 4: Right away So The jason morrow rule That the jets
Speaker 4: drafted him years AGO and i, could not for the
Speaker 4: life of me, figure out what are you seeing in?
Speaker 4: This kid he's a, developmental five if, he's anything and
Speaker 4: then you put the pressure on him and you ran
Speaker 4: him out of.
Speaker 1: The, league so in terms of who, you're four who's
Speaker 1: your four? Right now is Is It harold fannin or
Speaker 1: is he, you know he's? Your seven you said who's?
Speaker 3: Your four fans.
Speaker 4: My seven Evans and ferguson are tied at five, for
Speaker 4: me And Then mason taylor is.
Speaker 3: My Four So.
Speaker 1: Mason taylor is, my FIVE and i want to just
Speaker 1: Hit on harold Fan and junior. Real quick he is also.
Speaker 1: MY seven i think we see it. VERY similarly i
Speaker 1: think his film in college. Is good it's a, little
Speaker 1: unconventional Played At bowling green not necessarily didn't test as
Speaker 1: WELL as i. WAS hoping i think you need some
Speaker 1: time to develop and find, a ROLE and i think
Speaker 1: you need an offense that kind of is going to
Speaker 1: be patient with him to kind of piggyback.
Speaker 2: On that let's Talk About mason taylor.
Speaker 4: Real quick but before we come, off FACE can i
Speaker 4: just say. ONE thing i FEEL like i said a
Speaker 4: lot of NEGATIVE and i always want to say a
Speaker 4: POSITIVE when i. Have, it yeah two of the best
Speaker 4: games fan and played were against the best teams.
Speaker 3: They, Played Yeah penn state And Stateon. Texas ain now those.
Speaker 4: Two tapes are enough for me to take him around
Speaker 4: the top one.
Speaker 1: Hundred, ish, YEAH no i agree. With that, and again like,
Speaker 1: it's funny like you watch him At The, senior bowl.
Speaker 1: He wins you watch him, in college. HE wins i don't.
Speaker 1: Understand why it's not, overly technical it's not, overly clean
Speaker 1: but he figures out a way to get. It done
Speaker 1: and so you know that the tape doesn't, Lie Ultimately
Speaker 1: and i'm gonna support that because he had A Good senior.
Speaker 1: Bowl week and would you say you said this we Were, at,
Speaker 1: indianapolis right, you said if, one off two of three,
Speaker 1: Are good so, your combine your tape Or Your senior bowl.
Speaker 1: Are good two of those three, Are good like we're.
Speaker 1: Doing OKAY and i feel like he had two of
Speaker 1: the three that were.
Speaker 2: Pretty solid so.
Speaker 4: He didn't ast as WELL as i wanted. Him, to
Speaker 4: yeah it was A little i agree with you.
Speaker 2: Hartily. There yeah so let's Talk About. Mason taylor he's
Speaker 2: kind of.
Speaker 1: EVERYONE'S favorite i saw him at the top of the
Speaker 1: second round for a lot of these people in the.
Speaker 1: Mock draft he's in the top forty for, you know
Speaker 1: some of these. BIG boards i don't necessarily. See that
Speaker 1: i'd see a good. Football player how do you?
Speaker 4: SEE him i had an evaluator FOR a nfc team
Speaker 4: tell Me That mason taylor was the kid that they
Speaker 4: were the most convinced was going in the first round
Speaker 4: that no one was.
Speaker 3: Talking about really not.
Speaker 4: GONNA lie i don't think my jaw has come off
Speaker 4: the ground since that was said.
Speaker 3: TO me i don't see a first.
Speaker 2: ROUND great i don't see, it EITHER but.
Speaker 3: I see a. Raw kid let Me if i'm crazy,
Speaker 3: on this you feel free to Tell me i'm crazy. On.
Speaker 3: THIS yeah i had a Rule About.
Speaker 4: ELI manning i have a lot of RULES because i
Speaker 4: see GUYS and I go i've read this book BEFORE
Speaker 4: and i didn't like. The Ending If mason taylor's Name Was,
Speaker 4: mason smith would we be talking?
Speaker 1: About, Him, Dude dude i'm on the same page. As
Speaker 1: you i'm on the, same, page like let me just tell.
Speaker 1: You this let me tell YOU what i think. ABOUT
Speaker 1: him i think he's good, in line good in line,
Speaker 1: he's competitive, he's tough he catches the, football well but
Speaker 1: he's not a plus athlete and he's not great. In
Speaker 1: line so he's a really, good PLAYER and i don't
Speaker 1: know where you value that because, TO me i think
Speaker 1: his ceiling is a guy like that's going to be.
Speaker 1: Your blocking why that's not, as big or as strong
Speaker 1: or as technically sound as a Guy Like. John BATES
Speaker 1: so i, get again are you drafting. THE competitor i
Speaker 1: understand that his competitive tape, is excellent but to say
Speaker 1: that he's going to go in the, FIRST round i
Speaker 1: don't think he's a good enough athlete to. Do that
Speaker 1: and THAT'S where i KIND of i don't know what
Speaker 1: to do. With HIM because i like watching, THE film
Speaker 1: i like. The player everyone says he's a. GREAT kid
Speaker 1: i love, All that but how do you value that
Speaker 1: if he doesn't have the athletic ceiling to get. You
Speaker 1: there it's kind of the same thing we're talking About With.
Speaker 1: Mitch EEVANS like I Like mitch, evans's tape, but like
Speaker 1: if you don't have the athletic horsepower to get, it
Speaker 1: done what's your role at the next level IN?
Speaker 4: The nfl my biggest Question With mason taylor is if
Speaker 4: Now that i've seen the measurables, on you and he
Speaker 4: came in at six oh five one two, fifty one he,
Speaker 4: didn't run which that's a story for. Another day some
Speaker 4: of you guys are getting real bad Advice, on hey we.
Speaker 4: Shouldn't run we'll run At, the no don't don't. Do
Speaker 4: that it doesn't end well because one of the biggest
Speaker 4: Questions On mason, Taylor, is okay so you've got all the,
Speaker 4: raw measurables why were you never that red?
Speaker 3: Zone? Threat sure when you had all of the things
Speaker 3: that should be bumping. You up you played with, malite
Speaker 3: neighbors you played with all of these really talented wide.
Speaker 4: Receivers they HAD. At lsu why were you never the
Speaker 4: red zone threat when you're drawing one on one, Coverage
Speaker 4: consistently so you couldn't meet that consistently in college IN,
Speaker 4: the sec which is the closest thing we have TO the.
Speaker 4: Nfl game But now i'm supposed to believe that you're
Speaker 4: gonna come TO the nfl playing against, better talent against more,
Speaker 4: consistent talent and now all of, a sudden you're going
Speaker 4: to become this red.
Speaker 3: Zone monster that's hard for me to wrap my.
Speaker 2: BRAIN round i could not have said that.
Speaker 1: Better myself one of THE things i, look at especially
Speaker 1: for the first two rounds in, a draft and this
Speaker 1: Is where i'm a little bit Higher On terrence ferguson
Speaker 1: is can you consistently win versus man and? Man Coverage
Speaker 1: and terrence has shown his ability to, Do That mason taylor.
Speaker 1: Has Not so i'm, always like if you're going to
Speaker 1: be a red, zone weapon if you're going to be
Speaker 1: a third, down weapon Think You're, george Kittles Your travis
Speaker 1: Kelsey's Your, zach ertz you've got to win versus. Man
Speaker 1: coverage and if you can't do it in college versus,
Speaker 1: lesser coverage PLAYERS like i. Don't know that is the
Speaker 1: crux of. MY argument i don't. Understand it, and again
Speaker 1: he's a good, Football, player jason what?
Speaker 5: You got so just a guy coming in here that
Speaker 5: has just a Guy question so no. Dumb questions but
Speaker 5: this may, be dumb? All right could any of this
Speaker 5: be the COACHING at lsu and what they're asking him
Speaker 5: to do or are you, Strictly, saying okay the ball's
Speaker 5: not thrown, to him but he's not a red zone
Speaker 5: threat because you're not scheming him. That way is that?
Speaker 5: Even possible because we Looked at Jane and daniels last
Speaker 5: year and it, was like well he doesn't throw over in. The,
Speaker 5: middle well they weren't asking.
Speaker 1: Him to so with receivers and with, tight Ends, and
Speaker 1: jerem you can Tell me. I'm wrong is you watch all.
Speaker 1: THE routes i watch every route that they run usually
Speaker 1: to see and if you're not separating on, third down
Speaker 1: like on, a seam like do you have the good
Speaker 1: nuance the lean, him out bend it? Back in are
Speaker 1: you using a? Good stem do you have a? Double
Speaker 1: stick do you have the suddenness? And twitch like he
Speaker 1: ran a five yard out and he caught, the ball
Speaker 1: but it was like, this slow languid kind of Outcut and,
Speaker 1: i'm like A better dB.
Speaker 2: Undercuts that that's. An interception and.
Speaker 1: So sure it's that skill set that, you're like is
Speaker 1: it in his body to? Do it is the thing that, Gets,
Speaker 1: ME jeremy i don't know how you feel.
Speaker 4: About that So what and this is one of those
Speaker 4: things that tight ends are. A niche there are certain
Speaker 4: coaches that are just not big on. Tight ends they'd
Speaker 4: rather come out in five wides and have that pre,
Speaker 4: snap mode especially, in college because it's so much easier
Speaker 4: to do with there and they want to. Manipulate matchups
Speaker 4: here's my problem with That With. Mason taylor how many
Speaker 4: tight ends have we seen drafted Because Of brian kelly
Speaker 4: He Made.
Speaker 3: Michael mayer it's a.
Speaker 2: Great point it's a, Great point.
Speaker 4: TOMMY that i don't get to go with, down HERE
Speaker 4: and i get to deal with him down Here. IN carolina,
Speaker 4: i cannot for the life of me figure out how
Speaker 4: anybody thought he was a top, hundred player because you
Speaker 4: really nest down what he Did At. Notre dame he
Speaker 4: was a glorified fullback and that's what he's Done. In
Speaker 4: carolina Cole, Commit, A Lse, mack durham smythe that's just
Speaker 4: guys that were drafted Out Of. Notre dame by, the
Speaker 4: way none of them outside of maybe the, first two
Speaker 4: we're athletic enough to be high end. Draft Picks But
Speaker 4: brian kelly made them. That way why couldn't he do
Speaker 4: it With With, mason TAYLOR who i think athletically is
Speaker 4: better THAN anybody i just said Not Named, cole, comet
Speaker 4: Dude Because cole commett IS.
Speaker 3: Like a he's.
Speaker 4: Like a it's like nicotine. FOR me I just i can't,
Speaker 4: quit him no matter HOW bad. I, SHOULD.
Speaker 1: No, i, Agree MAN and i think that's again he's
Speaker 1: a conundrum.
Speaker 2: TO me i don't know what to do. WITH him
Speaker 2: i like.
Speaker 1: THE player i think he's gonna be good IN. THE
Speaker 1: nfl i just don't know what. HIS seal i think
Speaker 1: he plays ten years IN. THE nfl i just don't
Speaker 1: know what his. CEILING is i don't know if he's
Speaker 1: ever like a fifty. Catch guy but who is?
Speaker 2: Your?
Speaker 3: Three uh my Three Is? Elijah ROYO and.
Speaker 2: I have set the set the clock. By him look, at.
Speaker 4: THIS SO i I have i have very similar takes
Speaker 4: On a Royo, and taylor not because they're the. Same
Speaker 4: player i'm gonna say something that's gonna sound a. LITTLE
Speaker 4: strange i love IT and I and i mean it
Speaker 4: to the depths of. MY soul i really want to
Speaker 4: pair these two up. WITH coaches i want to pair
Speaker 4: you Up With dan Quinn And, cliff Kingsbury or sean McDermott,
Speaker 4: in Buffalo Or mike Tomlin, And Pittsburgh jamika Ryans. IN
Speaker 4: houston i want to find a Coach that i'm not
Speaker 4: worried is going to get fired a year, from NOW
Speaker 4: because i don't just need you to have. A plan
Speaker 4: i need this to be like electing. A president i
Speaker 4: don't just need you to have a plan for this
Speaker 4: kid for the next. TWELVE months i need you have
Speaker 4: a plan for him for the next four Years because
Speaker 4: i'm going to invest capital Here that i'm not super.
Speaker 4: Comfortable with i'm not comfortable with investing a second Round Picking.
Speaker 3: Elijah royo i'm talking.
Speaker 2: About that why? Is that why.
Speaker 3: One year?
Speaker 4: Of production i've watched way too many of, these guys
Speaker 4: and he had. INJURY issues i feel like the MEDICAL
Speaker 4: is i would love to get my hands on His medical.
Speaker 2: I've heard the, seats insane like in a.
Speaker 4: GOOD way i want, to say what, looks like just
Speaker 4: does this kid have like? Mutant blood and like if you,
Speaker 4: prick him does he bleed red blood like.
Speaker 3: The rest, of US because i don't think.
Speaker 1: He.
Speaker 4: Does no at the, same time he had like five
Speaker 4: catches in three Years at miami before.
Speaker 2: This.
Speaker 1: Year no AND again i think That's really i'm really
Speaker 1: glad you brought, that up because the injury history the
Speaker 1: one year of production are. Huge things but his one
Speaker 1: year of production. Was crazy we talk about having the,
Speaker 1: athletic upside the athletic ability to win one, on ones
Speaker 1: to stretch, the seam to compete. In LINE like i
Speaker 1: will say he's not great, in line but he's big
Speaker 1: enough and he's competiti enough in line that you could
Speaker 1: survive him with like as that Move f but it's
Speaker 1: the matchups that he's able to create in, The offense
Speaker 1: like if you come out in, twelve personnel they have
Speaker 1: to match you. In nickel they have to match you.
Speaker 1: In nickel they cannot put a linebacker on him because he's.
Speaker 1: That fast he's that nuance as a. Route runner like
Speaker 1: watching With The senior bowl live and in, living color
Speaker 1: he's twitchy in the. Short area it's all the things.
Speaker 1: You WANT but i love the Way that jeremy said
Speaker 1: that because it's like all those things, are excellent but
Speaker 1: he's been banged up and he's only had one year
Speaker 1: of really good production with a guy who's going to
Speaker 1: be a top five.
Speaker 2: Picker, quarterback like.
Speaker 1: Those things are things that are huge. Red, flags again,
Speaker 1: the athlete the, talent's there but can you Stay healthy
Speaker 1: kenny could. HAVE done i have no IDEA but i
Speaker 1: totally agree with what you're.
Speaker 3: Seeing There elijah royo is one of.
Speaker 4: Those players it's almost like The old goosebump books of
Speaker 4: you go to this page to get the ending that
Speaker 4: you want if you want to. Love him if you
Speaker 4: want to, LOVE him i can give you a handful.
Speaker 4: Of tape you Watch The wake, forest tape you'll think
Speaker 4: he's the second Coming Of. Rob, gronkowski yeah now you
Speaker 4: put On the duke tape if you want to. Hate
Speaker 4: him but there that Tape With. Manny diaz he manipulated
Speaker 4: that kid for sixty.
Speaker 3: Four.
Speaker 2: Minutes, yeah INTERESTING and i.
Speaker 4: Love IT and i see those two tapes and it's
Speaker 4: such an interesting dichotomy. For me and that leads to
Speaker 4: the third round, for me the third rounds of the.
Speaker 4: Honey HILL if i WAS AN, NFL gm i would
Speaker 4: get fired in three YEARS because i would just a
Speaker 4: year over year keep trading out one to accumulate assets
Speaker 4: from about forty five to, seventy five because that's the
Speaker 4: honey hole seemingly in.
Speaker 1: Every draft, to, ME dude i think that's one hundred.
Speaker 1: Percent right and that's something we've. Talked about JASON and
Speaker 1: i have talked about a lot with this, draft specifically
Speaker 1: is like the, top is there's so much risk associated
Speaker 1: with it because.
Speaker 2: They all got.
Speaker 1: A hit and there's nobody in this draft in the
Speaker 1: first round that you're like in love and. Love with,
Speaker 1: but man there are some excellent football players in that
Speaker 1: second and. Third ROUND so i think that's great analysis.
Speaker 1: By You, all right let's GET into.
Speaker 4: I not agree with that there's not guys in the
Speaker 4: first round that you're in love in love With THAT i'm,
Speaker 4: I mean i'm saying in roses to some of.
Speaker 2: These, dudes, NO okay I Mean i'm i'm in love.
Speaker 1: With them don't, get it don't get, me Wrong but
Speaker 1: i'm saying it's not like the risk associated with the first. Round,
Speaker 1: pick Sometimes like i'd rather have two second round picks
Speaker 1: or two third round picks in, some years and this
Speaker 1: year feels like that a.
Speaker 4: Little bit let's talk about. Year two, for me it's
Speaker 4: and it's. So CLOSE but I have loveland. At, TOO
Speaker 4: yeah i still.
Speaker 3: Love.
Speaker 2: HIM yeah i think we get.
Speaker 3: Into this.
Speaker 4: We get worn down with guys that we have talked
Speaker 4: about for this LONG and i look at all Of these.
Speaker 4: MICHIGAN guys i never thought we were going to be
Speaker 4: crucifying the Tape On will johnson the way that. We are,
Speaker 4: oh YEAH and i think it's hilarious that he's gonna
Speaker 4: end up falling to a good team that's borderline playoff
Speaker 4: team because everybody's worried about how straight line fast he
Speaker 4: is when he's An off he's an off, Zone corner
Speaker 4: so why do you care about how straight line fast?
Speaker 4: He is, but whatever we get guys involved in the
Speaker 4: draft that we call Him our CANADAN, because i for,
Speaker 4: some reason cannot spell The. WORD canadian i always leave out.
Speaker 4: The eye so EVERY time i Say our canadan is
Speaker 4: his Name's, not daniel which would make it better if.
Speaker 4: He was but he has a line of it is
Speaker 4: free to, say stuff like it costs you zero money to,
Speaker 4: say Stuff And colston lovelin kind of falls into that.
Speaker 4: For ME of i hear people detegrate him for things
Speaker 4: that don't really make a lot of sense.
Speaker 3: To me but there's no there's no real substance to.
Speaker 3: The argument so what's.
Speaker 4: The argument the guy had no quarterback, last year he
Speaker 4: played through injuries last year and he was, Still good
Speaker 4: like it's still really. Really, good yeah he was, Their
Speaker 4: offense like he's just all they had it was him
Speaker 4: and two running backs that it was like they were playing,
Speaker 4: ro shambos which one would?
Speaker 3: Be Worse.
Speaker 4: Just donovan Edwards And, khalail mulligs which one of us
Speaker 4: is worse today from? Paper, scissors shoot oh?
Speaker 1: It's me, Yeah yeah so for, Me Spoiler colston lovelin's.
Speaker 1: My one and the THING that i came back to
Speaker 1: with him specifically is you're always looking for that, chess,
Speaker 1: piece right that, chess piece that joker piece in your
Speaker 1: offense that could win versus man to man coverage that
Speaker 1: isn't going to be a liability in the, run game
Speaker 1: but ultimately can Do Your, travis Kelce Your george kittle kind.
Speaker 1: Of stuff and of the GUYS that i Watched that
Speaker 1: i've watched over the last couple, of years Even Including,
Speaker 1: kyle pitts to, BE honest i, was like this is
Speaker 1: the GUY that i have the most confidence in him
Speaker 1: being able to, do that like some of the like the,
Speaker 1: route nuanced subtlety stuff that he was Talking that jeremy
Speaker 1: was talking About With, Mitchell, EVANS like I think colson's,
Speaker 1: got IT and i think he's a. BETTER athlete i think.
Speaker 1: HE'S bigger i think. HE'S longer i think he tracks the.
Speaker 1: Football BETTER so i just thought in terms of, a
Speaker 1: weapon a pass, CATCHING weapon i think he's he's got
Speaker 1: that it FACTOR that i don't think anybody else quite
Speaker 1: has in this.
Speaker 4: Draft class he's almost, six,' six yeah and he won't
Speaker 4: be twenty one until either right before right.
Speaker 3: AFTER draft night i can't. Remember this one so still,
Speaker 3: a young kid.
Speaker 4: Still developing kid and THE question that, i have asked
Speaker 4: and it's the tape, on my one is just SO
Speaker 4: good that i.
Speaker 3: Can't help IT and, maybe I should because i do keep.
Speaker 4: Asking the question i'm looking at My evol on loveland
Speaker 4: right now and there's a there's a line at the
Speaker 4: top of the page that's just it's a reminder for
Speaker 4: ME of when i. Watched the tape this was the
Speaker 4: thing that kept rattling around. In my Brain and on,
Speaker 4: loveland's it says how good would he Have Been?
Speaker 3: With, Drew aller.
Speaker 1: Dude it's a it's a great it's it is THE
Speaker 1: question AND i and, i for, ME was like, i
Speaker 1: don't know he's JUST got.
Speaker 2: That nfl thing so let's talk.
Speaker 1: About your one, no spoilers here You got some jason.
Speaker 5: More, we, go yeah well before we get, INTO the
Speaker 5: one i kind of wanted to set This Up because
Speaker 5: colson loveland, Was your. One jeremy's two jeremy's one is
Speaker 5: who we're about. To talk about hero. Is YOUR two
Speaker 5: so i want you to start and tell me why
Speaker 5: is your number two and not, your number One and
Speaker 5: then jeremy's going to tell you.
Speaker 2: Why, you're wrong, Okay, Ready, fight okay ready. Here we
Speaker 2: go so just to, be perfectly clear both these, players,
Speaker 2: Are excellent right they're.
Speaker 1: Excellent football Players loveland and. Warren are excellent SO the
Speaker 1: thing i, Came to dude warren's film is a.
Speaker 2: Blast to watch it's a. Blast to WATCH.
Speaker 1: Like he i said This before and i'm gonna get killed,
Speaker 1: for It again but i'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Say it again he reminds me a little bit Like
Speaker 2: Of like.
Speaker 1: Ron gronkowski light he's just bigger and stronger and better
Speaker 1: than the people. He's playing against his ability to, win
Speaker 1: contested catches his ability to compete in line in, the
Speaker 1: run game to be, the wildcat quarterback all that stuff is.
Speaker 1: There for him he plays with, the right. Mentality THE
Speaker 1: physicality like i Really. Really like warren but THE thing
Speaker 1: that i kept, coming back to Is he so coulson
Speaker 1: is a f with plus? Pass game upside Warren is
Speaker 1: a why with plus, pass game upside which means he's
Speaker 1: a little, bit less athletic a, little BIT twitchy and
Speaker 1: i think a little bit less likely because of those
Speaker 1: athletic deficiencies to be featured in a pass game that's
Speaker 1: going to make him a top ten player at the POSITION.
Speaker 1: In the nfl it's it's. A subtle distinction it's a
Speaker 1: is he still going to be?
Speaker 2: An?
Speaker 1: Excellent player absolutely but are you going to be comfortable
Speaker 1: with lining him up all over the formation to? Create those,
Speaker 1: matchups You know like jeremy talked about this with some of,
Speaker 1: The other guys like coaching is going to be really.
Speaker 1: Important to that like if He Goes to new england, Ten,
Speaker 1: years ago yeah he's going, To be excellent but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of teams that don't know how to, use
Speaker 1: that Position that blocking why, TO that level i think
Speaker 1: you can create a bunch of good. Matchups with them
Speaker 1: not great, short area, quickness that's fine he wins. With
Speaker 1: his size can you continue to do that? THE next
Speaker 1: level i tend to think that guys who have high
Speaker 1: contested catch rates in college don't translate WELL. To the
Speaker 1: nfl and that's my only concern. WITH his game.
Speaker 4: I cannot disagree with anything, you just said SO you
Speaker 4: said i had to fight this out of why. He was,
Speaker 4: wrong all right here's where the problem. That comes in
Speaker 4: this is almost like arguing about which one of my,
Speaker 4: children IS cuter because i think they're. Both REALLY cute
Speaker 4: and i want to show you. ALL the pictures i
Speaker 4: like one slightly better, than The other and i'll tell you.
Speaker 4: WHY it's fit I Know where. TYLER warren's. GOING i
Speaker 4: know i Don't know that i've ever been as confident
Speaker 4: of a player in the top ten and where they're
Speaker 4: going TO go that I Am. With tyler warren where
Speaker 4: he's Going to the, Jets at seven he's going To
Speaker 4: Be justin. FIELDS cole comet. I know exactly i. SEE
Speaker 4: the path i watched the. FREE agency dollars i. GOT
Speaker 4: it all I Feel like john nash in a beautiful.
Speaker 3: Mind right now the numbers are. SPEAKING to ME i got.
Speaker 4: I see it i can't Figure Out where, colston Loveland
Speaker 4: goes and i'll TELL you where i think it's.
Speaker 3: Going to be it's Going, To. Be indianapolis indy that.
Speaker 2: Would be terrible that'd be. TERRIBLE for him.
Speaker 4: I hate it so you have two quarterbacks who are
Speaker 4: the best thing they do. Is run awesome that's that
Speaker 4: is really conducive for a pass catcher got.
Speaker 1: In, at fourteen dude if He, goes to Indy. That'd,
Speaker 1: be yeah again this is where the draft is. Such
Speaker 1: a crapshoot like let's say you flip those And You
Speaker 1: say colson loveland Goes to the Jets and then Warren. Goes,
Speaker 1: TO indianapolis like i feel the same way because, the
Speaker 1: quarterback situation the way they're using the. Offense Isn't great
Speaker 1: what I'd really like coulson and go is to go
Speaker 1: in a little bit of a slide and either Go
Speaker 1: to the commanders that won't happen or Go To. THE
Speaker 1: denver Broncos I Think peyton sean payton really would understand
Speaker 1: how to use that skill set at a high level
Speaker 1: and you get a really nice productive year from. Both
Speaker 1: OF them but i think that's a Great. Point by,
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Speaker 1: BEEN waiting for i don't know if everyone's. BEEN waiting
Speaker 1: for i think tight ends are way more exciting than.
Speaker 1: Quarterbacks This, year but jeremy let's do a, really high
Speaker 1: level like what you're looking for, in a quarterback, just
Speaker 1: high level kind of a couple bullet points and we'll
Speaker 1: get INTO top five.
Speaker 4: I feel, like AND now look i have over the.
Speaker 4: LAST few years I can't say i have been the most.
Speaker 4: Accurate with quarterbacks i'll just say the list of guys
Speaker 4: that have been more accurate than me is, very very
Speaker 4: short and you could probably put it.
Speaker 2: ALL to time.
Speaker 4: I love it I Did have jaydon daniels at, one
Speaker 4: LAST year and i, Can, prove.
Speaker 1: That yeah that IS that's, why i mean you said
Speaker 1: that on, our last show and we're here, for it man,
Speaker 1: Because we agree.
Speaker 4: SO go ahead i feel like quarterback is the one
Speaker 4: position where dudes start doing dude.
Speaker 3: Things and lie explain TO you what i. MEAN by that.
Speaker 4: A single guy will meete a pretty girl in a
Speaker 4: bar and she could have a severed head, in her
Speaker 4: trunk and if, SHE'S cute enough i.
Speaker 3: Can fix her, Like it's, fine, I'm GOOD yep but
Speaker 3: i still have a.
Speaker 4: Lot, Of questions why like there are so many, women
Speaker 4: out there why do you have to have the axe
Speaker 4: murderer with a head in the back? Of a buick
Speaker 4: and that's KIND of how i fall in on at
Speaker 4: least one of the high end quarterbacks.
Speaker 3: In this class you Ask me what, I'm looking for
Speaker 3: just do the.
Speaker 4: Basics so well you should not have huge categorical flaws.
Speaker 4: In Your game cam ward does, not have. Big, SCREAMING
Speaker 4: flaws yeah i think he's limited.
Speaker 2: SURE in that i.
Speaker 3: DON'T know.
Speaker 4: THAT i don't i think, he's a good. NOT great
Speaker 4: athlete i think he has a good. NOT great arm
Speaker 4: i think he's he could really spin it when. He's
Speaker 4: in rhythm i'm fine with. All of that that's a.
Speaker 4: First round, quarterback to me there's not another one of those.
Speaker 4: In this class there's just not there's not a first.
Speaker 4: Round talent, here and. LOOK my two i, love my.
Speaker 4: Two my two. I'm doing. THIS say anything i got
Speaker 4: the boombox. Outside the window just, come, love ME bro
Speaker 4: because i really wanted you to go to like one
Speaker 4: of eight teams and it's gonna be.
Speaker 3: None Of them but.
Speaker 1: I'm be sad so let's get, into IT then BECAUSE
Speaker 1: i can't i. Really can't wait, And this year i'm to,
Speaker 1: BE perfectly candid i have not watched as MUCH quarterback
Speaker 1: as i NORMALLY watch because i don't care that. Much
Speaker 1: This year so i'm gonna give you my super. High
Speaker 1: level takes jason has watched more quarterback than. Me this
Speaker 1: year so we're going to. Get ON this but i think.
Speaker 1: Let's get going you got, Something, TO say.
Speaker 5: Yeah i think the best way to do this is
Speaker 5: to do like just say what, quarterbacks you like and
Speaker 5: like just say, You're, top five jeremy and then like whichever, one,
Speaker 5: you're like oh let's talk. About this guy let's just. Talk,
Speaker 5: about him okay like a, LITTLE less structured i guess
Speaker 5: than the ends Because here in washington we don't, care
Speaker 5: that much so let's just hit.
Speaker 1: The hot Topics so auguess, I'll, go first jeremy and
Speaker 1: then you can Tell me. If i'm wrong so my
Speaker 1: Top five is, milroe, as?
Speaker 2: Five right? Shuck oh shuck Oh, From uh?
Speaker 3: Waitrose, you're?
Speaker 2: Five yeah dude who else? Would? You, are yeah like
Speaker 2: then give, me, a, second here guy give. Me a, second,
Speaker 2: Come on shuck.
Speaker 1: I'm, Gonna, go shador dart and Then obviously cam ward
Speaker 1: at One is my those are, my five there and
Speaker 1: then now, you, tell.
Speaker 4: Me wait, we, agree, one, ONE three. Four i have,
Speaker 4: Ward is one dart, Is my two chadur, Is, My
Speaker 4: three tower shuck?
Speaker 3: Is, my, four?
Speaker 2: Okay okay perfect then? Who's?
Speaker 4: Your?
Speaker 2: Five?
Speaker 3: QUEEN yours dude. I like.
Speaker 1: It let's talk let's talk ABOUT him because i actually like.
Speaker 1: Him a lot so let's talk. ABOUT that one. I
Speaker 1: like that let's start THERE because actually. I totally forgot
Speaker 1: i did. An evaluation him milroe was. A lazy one
Speaker 1: i'm GOING to say i was Being. Lazy with milroe
Speaker 1: i'm backing out. On that now.
Speaker 2: So My Great.
Speaker 4: On jalen milroe if it could, HAVE been negative i
Speaker 4: would have made it, a.
Speaker 2: Negative dude it's a tough, film to.
Speaker 1: WATCH no doubt i THINK the thing i SETTLED in
Speaker 1: on i think it was a little bit more predictive
Speaker 1: with THIS on who i LIKE where that i think
Speaker 1: the order they. Will actually Go, AND with milroe i,
Speaker 1: SEE the athlete i see. THE arm, talent i, THINK
Speaker 1: like you i think fit is going to. Be really
Speaker 1: important like can he go to, a spot, like For
Speaker 1: example like philly and be the backup there for three
Speaker 1: years and grow and develop in an offense with a really,
Speaker 1: Good Offensive line LIKE that's where i see him going
Speaker 1: because the. Talent IS there but i think the like
Speaker 1: the thing you said at the, beginning OF this which
Speaker 1: i think is the most important thing with a quarterback
Speaker 1: is can they do?
Speaker 3: The?
Speaker 2: Easy stuff.
Speaker 1: Well he does milroe does the high, level stuff well
Speaker 1: but the easy stuff.
Speaker 2: Is not good is he.
Speaker 5: Like an old O'dule's Version? Of, Anthony richardson yes like
Speaker 5: he's just he's, just, very athletic right he's, an elite
Speaker 5: runner but he's, not as big, not as fast and.
Speaker 5: HE'S not accurate i.
Speaker 1: Want to get jeremy', stut on this, But For me
Speaker 1: anthony richardson was a unicorn, ATHLETE unicorn terms i.
Speaker 2: Would pay, That, that's why Yes It's.
Speaker 5: Not, ANTHONY richardson yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know i kind of feel like that's. A
Speaker 2: good comparison what Do You Think jeremy.
Speaker 4: Jalen milroe Does look like anthony richards and if he
Speaker 4: was about eighteen beers deep. On his film so the background,
Speaker 4: On my computer i'm a, Reasonably TECHY guy so i
Speaker 4: made a gift of the Opening Interception of Jalen, milroe
Speaker 4: against vanderbilt which is legitimately The worst throw.
Speaker 3: I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: Not a great thing if you if you put that
Speaker 4: with a bunch of, EIGHT year olds i would be
Speaker 4: yelling at, the kid's dad going what? Is he doing
Speaker 4: and you Did. That at alabama that's the background on
Speaker 4: my computer of it just spins constantly of do Not
Speaker 4: Fall for jalen milroe.
Speaker 3: Under any circumstance.
Speaker 5: Now, you say that but what if he falls into
Speaker 5: like a very late round and, like You're saying like
Speaker 5: philly takes him or, Someone like, That, it's like okay
Speaker 5: it's worth a shot. With this guy you're not paying
Speaker 5: im any what's the?
Speaker 4: High Side there and i'm just gonna use the example
Speaker 4: that you, Gave All right So Philadelphia, had kenny pickett
Speaker 4: who they've now traded for a Draft. Pick, to cleveland
Speaker 4: Yes they have TANNER McKee that i believe. IN a
Speaker 4: Lot i think tanner McKee will be a starting quarterback
Speaker 4: in this league before it's all.
Speaker 2: SAID and.
Speaker 4: Done i Agree so now i'm Gonna take mill row
Speaker 4: as like a developmental three that's gonna get five percent
Speaker 4: of snaps, outside OF camp and i don't think he's
Speaker 4: ever going to. DEVELOP that way i think he will be,
Speaker 4: A DECENT runner like i can run the. Veer with
Speaker 4: Him So if lou holtz started OACH in the nfl
Speaker 4: Would have a.
Speaker 3: I'd be giddy but that's.
Speaker 1: ALL he is i think that's THE thing is i
Speaker 1: think so he's on the list because the, talent for
Speaker 1: me that's why he's on the list is. The TALENTS
Speaker 1: there But i think i've broke my own. Rule WITH
Speaker 1: him Is i think jeremy brings up, a great point
Speaker 1: is is it possible for him to get where he
Speaker 1: needs to be SERVICEABLE at the nfl level and the
Speaker 1: processing is. A little slow, like the athlete the arm,
Speaker 1: talent's all there but it's that's the thing with quarterback
Speaker 1: is you're not going to get a lot of, Opportunity
Speaker 1: to develop like we just talked, about tight ends like
Speaker 1: you'll have a couple of years to, figure it, out
Speaker 1: you know to kind of like set in develop the
Speaker 1: find a, role for you even if, it's not great
Speaker 1: even if the coaching staff, on the level like if
Speaker 1: you're drafted in the, first three rounds they'll give you
Speaker 1: three years to. Figure it out, but the quarterback it's not.
Speaker 1: Really like that, and SO again like i don't know
Speaker 1: if he, Ever gets there like watching him at times
Speaker 1: like just with reads and, seeing the. Field it's painful
Speaker 1: but he is a special talent in terms of. Throwing
Speaker 1: the football he's a special talent in. Terms of running
Speaker 1: so maybe you bet on those traits and figure out
Speaker 1: let's talk. About your five let's. Go quinin yours what are?
Speaker 2: You seeing?
Speaker 4: Him the man the good, is really good the bad,
Speaker 4: is really bad but he can. Absolutely spin it AND
Speaker 4: the thing i come back to with yours is he's
Speaker 4: kind of In That. Like cole, COMET for me i just,
Speaker 4: can't quit you no MATTER how bad, i want TO
Speaker 4: because when i watch just, the raw tools the raw
Speaker 4: talent take take everything out.
Speaker 3: Put it all.
Speaker 4: In a vacuum how many players in college football can
Speaker 4: spin it better Than quin yours and. It's, not many
Speaker 4: yeah it's. A great point pressure grade. Is not good
Speaker 4: you put pressure on him and. Bad things happen but
Speaker 4: when it's. All clean IT here's what. I don't understand
Speaker 4: i don't understand how somebody can tell me that They
Speaker 4: Love shed or sanders And They hate quinn yours when
Speaker 4: they're literally.
Speaker 3: The same guy it's.
Speaker 2: A good point it's it's a.
Speaker 1: Really good point like it is funny HOW people get
Speaker 1: i don't know bias is, the right word but they
Speaker 1: kind of get in these like rhythms WHERE it's like
Speaker 1: i don't like these things, about this player but this
Speaker 1: other player does exactly the same thing and you don't
Speaker 1: and you're.
Speaker 2: OKAY with. Him i don't i've always that's. ALWAYS baffled
Speaker 2: me i think.
Speaker 3: When we get into.
Speaker 4: Very lazy comps one of the things that has always
Speaker 4: irked me to no, end is that, especially with quarterbacks
Speaker 4: we only compare quarterbacks to other quarterbacks that.
Speaker 2: Look, like them yeah.
Speaker 4: That's Not Accurate quin you Weres And shed or sanders
Speaker 4: do not look anything alike until you watch them on, tape,
Speaker 4: and go huh every, deficiency you have. You have right, the,
Speaker 4: DIFFERENCE is well i think one.
Speaker 3: Of them is.
Speaker 4: One of them has a medical that scares me to
Speaker 4: death with YOU wors because i feel like he gets
Speaker 4: hurt about. Every, third game yeah and that's it's hard
Speaker 4: for me to get on board with that because you're getting,
Speaker 4: Hurt in college you're gonna get hurt in.
Speaker 3: THE pros too i don't know if you didn't, DRINK
Speaker 3: enough milk, i don't know if you.
Speaker 4: DID nature wheaties, i don't know if you didn't Listen
Speaker 4: to hul cogan when he was telling you that when,
Speaker 4: WE were kids. I don't know but there's something about
Speaker 4: that kid that there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 4: of brittle. To queen youwers that's really the only difference
Speaker 4: between shadu or and, Yours FOR me.
Speaker 1: So i wanted to bring this up real. Quick with
Speaker 1: yours THE one thing i DID get when i was
Speaker 1: watching him a little bit is. The anticipatory throws and
Speaker 1: again they're not a big feature. Of that offense he
Speaker 1: doesn't do, it a lot which makes me. A little
Speaker 1: bit THAT'S something that i look for In quarterbacks like
Speaker 1: jeremy talked about the things. HE'S looking for i look.
Speaker 1: FOR anticipatory throws i look for. REQUISITE arm talent i
Speaker 1: look for kind of an. Innate playmaking ability whatever That
Speaker 1: gen sa qua. That magic is but the anticipatory throws for.
Speaker 1: Me are huge and again again it's not a huge
Speaker 1: Feature of. The TEXAS offense but i didn't see it
Speaker 1: to the SAME.
Speaker 2: Level that i Saw. It with shador what would you
Speaker 2: SAY to that.
Speaker 3: I don't love I.
Speaker 4: DON'T love sarkasian i love him as, a COLLEGE coach
Speaker 4: and I think sometimes i say THINGS and people i
Speaker 4: don't necessarily. Explain IT appropriately if i had a kid
Speaker 4: that was a five star, Blue Chip prospect steve sarkeysan
Speaker 4: would be on the very short list OF guys that
Speaker 4: i would want. Coaching him up, that being said he
Speaker 4: does not have a great track record OF coaching. Up,
Speaker 4: nfl quarterbacks yeah and he's, had some talent and it
Speaker 4: just kind of feels like the. Talent Never develops And
Speaker 4: that's where i'm. AT with, viewers i mean in terms
Speaker 4: of as a, high school prospect this was one of
Speaker 4: the highest rated prospects, we've ever seen and He goes
Speaker 4: to texas after That Year, at ohio state and it's
Speaker 4: felt like. HE never developed i also don't understand why
Speaker 4: guys commit to programs where they're the fifth quarterback in
Speaker 4: line like He Did.
Speaker 3: AT ohio state i don't know.
Speaker 4: Why you think that's, Going To work but i've watched
Speaker 4: it not, work ENOUGH times and i think youwers falls
Speaker 4: into that of you had that weird kind of Forgotten You're.
Speaker 4: At ohio state he dropped out. Of school early this
Speaker 4: was one of the first when the transfer portal really.
Speaker 4: Became a thing this was one of the first. Prizes
Speaker 4: of it He goes to texas and it just never
Speaker 4: it always felt kind of, clunky to me.
Speaker 3: And it never felt he was the best in.
Speaker 4: His Biggest games, that georgia tape if you can Watch
Speaker 4: him against georgia the second TIME in the sec title
Speaker 4: game and not, just absolutely good THAT kid's. An nfl
Speaker 4: quarterback it was about as good of A tape as
Speaker 4: i saw from a quarterback. This, Entire process SURE but
Speaker 4: then i went and went And Watched the OHIO state,
Speaker 4: and i realized if you had even been a fraction
Speaker 4: of what You, were against georgia you Would Have.
Speaker 3: Beaten ohio state.
Speaker 1: The inconsistency with him is ALSO something that i had a.
Speaker 1: HARD time with i, don't get IT like, when i,
Speaker 1: understand like why like you're hurt or there's a, lot
Speaker 1: of pressure or your offensive lines banged up you can't,
Speaker 1: run the football or the receiver's hurt or, Whatever IT
Speaker 1: is like i understand THE inconsistency when i don't understand
Speaker 1: when it's not, clear to me like why one game
Speaker 1: you look like the second coming of, Whoever You, want
Speaker 1: joe montana and this next game you look like you
Speaker 1: shouldn't BE. In the nfl that always makes me a
Speaker 1: little bit. Nervous as well.
Speaker 3: Yours is the definition of the.
Speaker 4: Hot, crazy scale, Yeah all right So.
Speaker 2: Four is shuck is? This Your?
Speaker 1: Name, Tyler Shuck yes Tyler. SHUCK from louisville i, Really,
Speaker 1: LIKE him like i really like. Him a lot like he,
Speaker 1: spins the, ball he's fast you can run some quarterback run.
Speaker 1: Stuff with, him HE'S big like i think you see
Speaker 1: the anticipatory, throws on tape like he elevated That, offense
Speaker 1: said louisville like did a lot of. Really good things
Speaker 1: but he is old and he is. Hurt a lot
Speaker 1: how do you.
Speaker 4: Feel ABOUT him so i said something the LAST time,
Speaker 4: THAT i was i was on, with YOU guys and
Speaker 4: i DON'T know IF i just.
Speaker 3: I don't know i DON'T know if i was. DRINKING
Speaker 3: that day I don't. Think i was so he does
Speaker 3: have three, season ending injuries but.
Speaker 2: They.
Speaker 4: Weren't ligament issues it was two collar bones and. A
Speaker 4: broken fibula i don't worry about that as much long.
Speaker 4: Term THE bone and i DON'T know if i just
Speaker 4: put that in, MY note. WRONG i don't i went
Speaker 4: back and listen to, that and WENT why did I
Speaker 4: say that? That's not true.
Speaker 3: He doesn't have the he doesn't have weak knees or.
Speaker 4: ANYTHING like that i think He may have it's. Possible
Speaker 4: his bone his bones are a little bit brittle, because
Speaker 4: collar bone two collar. Bones is weird that's not a
Speaker 4: normal thing to see from a kid that's twenty.
Speaker 3: Five years old.
Speaker 4: That tends to happen, to older players because as, time
Speaker 4: goes on your bones. Become More Brittle and aaron rodgers
Speaker 4: he'd had no issue until he was, like thirty five thirty, six,
Speaker 4: years old sure and then he had two of them,
Speaker 4: in five years one of Them, with the jets one
Speaker 4: of them with The. With the packers that is. Unsettling
Speaker 4: to me but in a QUARTERBACK class that, i believe
Speaker 4: in this little seeing the, Raw in. HIM i'm, good
Speaker 4: i mean and, it wasn't he but he all of
Speaker 4: a sudden in his age, twenty five season he was
Speaker 4: better than everybody.
Speaker 3: On the field those guys scare?
Speaker 2: Me to?
Speaker 4: Death can he pickett WAS never an nfl quarterback until
Speaker 4: he was two or three years older than. Everybody's, PLAYING
Speaker 4: against sure i run away from those guys. Like active grenades,
Speaker 4: IN no way i won't take them in the. First
Speaker 4: five rounds the bust rates like. Ninety five percent schuck
Speaker 4: was good even when. He was younger he just. Kept,
Speaker 4: getting hurt.
Speaker 5: Jeremy let me Ask You. ABOUT jackson dart i think
Speaker 5: this is the next one. On our list We're gonna
Speaker 5: Save shugar and kim because they're the top two across.
Speaker 5: Most NATIONAL media but i want to ask you about
Speaker 5: him because you're Very high On. Dart, from mississippi.
Speaker 3: Yes he's my number two.
Speaker 4: In this class he is the one quarterback in this
Speaker 4: class that doesn't wilt like day old flowers when the pressure.
Speaker 3: Gets TURNED up and.
Speaker 4: I get it everybody, wants, to say well he was
Speaker 4: in a pick and Pop Offense at old miss and
Speaker 4: he didn't really even have to, think about anything and
Speaker 4: look at how good. The, receivers were, okay all right
Speaker 4: you DO realize that i can say everything you just
Speaker 4: Said about, schdor sanders.
Speaker 1: Too and probably even in terms, OF receiver talent i,
Speaker 1: think they're like all four of his receivers are getting, drafted,
Speaker 1: this year right, probably you think.
Speaker 3: And we'll be priority. Undrafted, free agents.
Speaker 2: Yeah and then one of The Dudes from old, misses getting?
Speaker 2: DRAFTED right? AM i am i off on That.
Speaker 4: You'll get Watkins, you'll get Wells You'll, get trey.
Speaker 2: Harris all those guys. THAT get Drafted I think.
Speaker 3: Trey harris will Go.
Speaker 4: Into twin wells he ran so poorly that he may,
Speaker 4: not get Drafted and then watkins, ran really well which
Speaker 4: probably GETS him into, i don't know.
Speaker 1: Middle, of SIX yeah but I guess what I'M saying,
Speaker 1: is i Felt After watching old miss And after, watching
Speaker 1: colorad know the Receiver TALENT at colorado i, thought was,
Speaker 1: BETTER you know i thought, It WAS better so i think.
Speaker 4: IT was equivalent i can't say it was better because
Speaker 4: they Didn't Have, A trey Harris I, mean TRAVIS hunter
Speaker 4: but i also look AT, In the sec i'm playing
Speaker 4: a much higher. LEVEL of defense i put Nothing Into
Speaker 4: the big TWELVE solely because i think with ALL the prospects,
Speaker 4: I have GRATED i think i have like eight Guys
Speaker 4: from the big twelve that are, draftable defensive players and
Speaker 4: one Of Them, is travis hunter who is everybody as
Speaker 4: good a receiver as he.
Speaker 3: IS a corner i don't put a lot of.
Speaker 4: Stock, IN that yeah i just don't understand why the
Speaker 4: pick and Pop thing with dart is such. A big
Speaker 4: deal but then people will just kind of admit That,
Speaker 4: with with shduur Which Is, with sean lewis that's exactly
Speaker 4: what he was doing the.
Speaker 3: Exact, SAME offense.
Speaker 4: Yeah i don't get that because The tape, on DART'S
Speaker 4: better and i don't think it's.
Speaker 3: All that close it's.
Speaker 1: A great point i think you see more throws. DOWN
Speaker 1: the field i think When you watch shador it's there
Speaker 1: are throws, down the. Field no doubt but the offense
Speaker 1: Is Much more what i'm going to say Is like,
Speaker 1: a texas offense, much more horizontal like, lots of screens lots,
Speaker 1: of UNDERNEATH stuff and i think he does a great job,
Speaker 1: of reading short does a great job of reading. That
Speaker 1: STUFF out but i do think you see a little
Speaker 1: bit more dynamism Is the word i'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna Use with jackson dart in terms of pushing the football.
Speaker 1: Down the field that ball kind of comes off his
Speaker 1: hand with some more RPMs like the, far hash comeback
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff you'll SEE at.
Speaker 2: THE nfl level i just think there's.
Speaker 1: More volume there it's kind of one of THE reasons
Speaker 1: THAT i like jj McCarthy last year a LITTLE bit
Speaker 1: is i felt like he could do MORE of, the
Speaker 1: NFL stuff and I Feel like jackson, dart in college
Speaker 1: even though the offense is, a good offense it's, a
Speaker 1: simpler offense has a little bit more, of that stuff
Speaker 1: of the physical. Stuff on tape.
Speaker 5: So Let's move To. Schaduran Cam ward and i'm going
Speaker 5: to start this One off because i'm, just a guy,
Speaker 5: not the expert and most just the guys out there
Speaker 5: and the casual fan like me that's sitting around sees
Speaker 5: these guys as one two And They see shdura sanders,
Speaker 5: and they're like, that's, A guy right SO what do i.
Speaker 5: SEE from, Him i mean mike. COMP for him i told.
Speaker 5: You this once logan is Like he's the. Batman to
Speaker 5: me he, has no superpower but he has A lot, of,
Speaker 5: He's rich right like he's. Rich with Talent he's got dion.
Speaker 5: Helping him Out He's got travis, hunter with him and
Speaker 5: he's good, at almost everything but no superpower and can
Speaker 5: get the crap beat. Out of him if, He's not
Speaker 5: careful bane can. Break his back so that's KIND of how.
Speaker 5: I see him if he goes to. A Good situation
Speaker 5: like i'm, thinking to myself, maybe this guy, He's got
Speaker 5: tools he's got, the tool belt he's got, the.
Speaker 3: Bat belt he's.
Speaker 5: Got the batmobile like he's got some. Of these, things
Speaker 5: this ATHLETICISM and like i think that's what people kind
Speaker 5: of bet on with him and what. They look at
Speaker 5: but he does take a lot of hits and a
Speaker 5: lot of sacks and holds onto the ball and not
Speaker 5: all of that is. The, line's fault JEREMY? Why am i?
Speaker 5: This is why i'm.
Speaker 3: Just a guy.
Speaker 5: You're an expert Tell me if i'm seeing this Right or,
Speaker 5: if i'm wrong or let me let me. Know. Your
Speaker 5: feedback here.
Speaker 4: I'm more angry that you just took A. SHOT at
Speaker 4: batman a shadow of it out MY favorite super I have.
Speaker 4: A batman Tattoo. I love batman batman doesn't. Have a,
Speaker 4: superpower He's loaded and I'm Convinced, that elon musk when
Speaker 4: he gets tired of messa, with the government he's gonna Become.
Speaker 4: Real life batman you just go throw on the, SUIT
Speaker 4: and go, I got money, let's do this. Make it,
Speaker 4: Happen UH shoulder So i have there are there are
Speaker 4: a FEW stats that i use with quarterbacks that are.
Speaker 4: Almost like disqualifiers and the first one is gonna sound
Speaker 4: REALLY wonky when. I Say it shador sanders turnover worthy
Speaker 4: play rate was one. Point three percent.
Speaker 3: That's a.
Speaker 4: Disqualifier for me why because it means you. Take, no
Speaker 4: shots ever it's THE same problem I Had. With caleb
Speaker 4: williams you are safe to a point of almost completely
Speaker 4: hamstringing yourself because you're so worried.
Speaker 3: ABOUT throwing interceptions i watch him on tape and there's a.
Speaker 4: Lot of screens there's a lot, of manufactured touches there's
Speaker 4: a lot of, dink and dunk there's a lot of
Speaker 4: THE best tape i Ever saw shedor standers was when
Speaker 4: he was able to stay in the pocket for two and.
Speaker 4: A half seconds that doesn't HAPPEN. In the nfl you're gonna.
Speaker 4: Get heated up and when he, gets heated up he
Speaker 4: turns into a. Non draftable, quarterback to me he starts
Speaker 4: turning his back, to the line which for Me is
Speaker 4: the that is like. The unforgivable sin when you start doing.
Speaker 4: That bailout, thing and look there's some quarterbacks that, Are
Speaker 4: Athletic enough lamar jackson can get. By With it Shadoor Sanders.
Speaker 4: At lamar jackson so when you, start doing that that's
Speaker 4: a complete breakdown of, all things mechanic because now you're
Speaker 4: gonna have to spin back, to the line get back
Speaker 4: into your progression having completely taken eyes.
Speaker 3: Off of it that would be the.
Speaker 4: Equivalent of telling this kid that you were going to
Speaker 4: play pin the tail, on the donkey putting the, mask
Speaker 4: on him, spinning him around and then asking him to
Speaker 4: hit a receiver. In a second. It doesn't work it's
Speaker 4: not gonna. Work For him shadoor sanders is the best
Speaker 4: seven On seven quarterback. I've ever seen like if we
Speaker 4: played flag FOOTBALL, In the nfl he's the number one,
Speaker 4: picking this draft and. It's not close the problem is
Speaker 4: that we don't and somebody's. Gonna overdraft him i'm ninety
Speaker 4: nine point ninety nine percent sure it's a team.
Speaker 3: In your division i've never been as.
Speaker 4: Confident of anything I've, never had chador Not to the
Speaker 4: giants in any mock.
Speaker 3: Draft.
Speaker 2: I'VE done no i think they need a. Quarterback for sure.
Speaker 4: His actions lend to somebody, has told him. You're not
Speaker 4: falling did you see him at the at the at
Speaker 4: his actual, Availability.
Speaker 3: Media wise.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Was that off putting to you?
Speaker 1: A little, bit i mean, because you know get these
Speaker 1: guys to, get up there and they treat it, like
Speaker 1: an interview and, they're very professional and they're, very locked
Speaker 1: in and, they're VERY accommodating and i just felt like
Speaker 1: he was there kind, of UNAPOLOGETICALLY him. Which i Appreciate but,
Speaker 1: also i'm like is the fact you're, turning down teams
Speaker 1: you're kind of being brashed to teams because you think
Speaker 1: you're not going to get a draft by them is
Speaker 1: an interesting? Move by, him so again, LIKE off putting,
Speaker 1: i don't know a, little theatrical maybe but it, was
Speaker 1: an interesting interesting, choice, AND someone definitely i would agree
Speaker 1: kind of either gave him really good advice or gave him.
Speaker 1: Some POOR advice and i guess we'll find out here
Speaker 1: in a.
Speaker 4: COUPLE of weeks i will tell You something About shador
Speaker 4: that i've yet to hear anybody in national media. Say
Speaker 4: OUT loud and i went back and. CHECKED the uh
Speaker 4: i checked the schedule to make SURE that what i was.
Speaker 4: Saying was right he had two receivers that were doing
Speaker 4: their media availability while he was Walking Around with joseina
Speaker 4: anderson doing the, look at me, look at me, look
Speaker 4: at me. Look at Me interesting if, I'M your receiver
Speaker 4: i don't love the fact that my quarterback is making
Speaker 4: everything About him and i've got two people standing in.
Speaker 3: Front, OF me, YEAH i mean i don't love that
Speaker 3: these are supposed to.
Speaker 5: Be.
Speaker 1: Your guys yeah the one thing that got me was,
Speaker 1: when they, were you Know Him and cam warred were
Speaker 1: having that throwing session and it's all. Over the Internet, It's,
Speaker 1: ON instagram twitter i think it's on, YouTube as well and,
Speaker 1: And You know cam, warred's, gonna say, oh you don't
Speaker 1: you're kind of A check down Charlie and he the
Speaker 1: first Thing should or sanders, said, IS like well i
Speaker 1: didn't have. The offensive line like those. TYPES of comments
Speaker 1: i know. THEY'RE in jest i know he's, a young
Speaker 1: guy but they make me just a little bit concerned
Speaker 1: that like when, it gets hot like when it gets a,
Speaker 1: little bit difficult which it WILL, In the nfl like
Speaker 1: what's your reaction? Going to be and again like this
Speaker 1: is part. Of THE process and i don't think we're
Speaker 1: not trying to, kill the kid like he's just what
Speaker 1: is he twenty? One years old but those are things
Speaker 1: that definitely come to the forefront of mind with him
Speaker 1: that are, a little concerning and especially in a Big Market,
Speaker 1: like new york like they're not going to go easy,
Speaker 1: on you there and you're.
Speaker 4: GOING to think i LAUGH when, people i Laugh especially when,
Speaker 4: shador said, it but this well he didn't have. The
Speaker 4: offensive line you also realized that he didn't go up
Speaker 4: against the. Pass, rushers either sure there are no big
Speaker 4: twelve pass rushers. In this class like the best one
Speaker 4: you're going To see IS, baddie from. Byu who's good
Speaker 4: and if you go back and WATCH those two Byu
Speaker 4: tapes where, Colorado played them chador.
Speaker 3: Wasn't, particularly good.
Speaker 4: Yeah did you ever notice that in every tape that
Speaker 4: you actually put a legit pass, rusher out there and everybody, wants,
Speaker 4: to say oh it's because of.
Speaker 3: The offensive line maybe it's because he. Can't, handle pressure.
Speaker 2: Yeah and that's.
Speaker 1: A huge deal and that's something we talked about with
Speaker 1: last year's quarterbacks. Quite a bit and it is a,
Speaker 1: it's a factor and it's something. That's really significant and
Speaker 1: there's no magic bullet when it comes. To quarterback evaluation
Speaker 1: there's no like this data point, Leads to this but
Speaker 1: that is one of those ones that has a little
Speaker 1: bit less noise. Associated with it and if you have
Speaker 1: a bad pressure, rate in college usually you struggle WITH.
Speaker 1: In the nfl and and for a guy that has is,
Speaker 1: somewhat athletically, limited You Know, because jane daniels he his pressure.
Speaker 1: Is pressure rate when, he took pressure his completion. Percentage
Speaker 1: went down it was everyone was talking about. That LAST
Speaker 1: year But I think jane daniels' athleticism allows him. TO
Speaker 1: overcome that i don't think you see the Same.
Speaker 4: Thing, with, shador yeah no it's it's it's almost shocking how. Unathletic,
Speaker 4: he is.
Speaker 5: Well My, Apologies, to batman yeah you, should, be apology
Speaker 5: yes and, Apologies. To you jeremy so let's move On The.
Speaker 5: Cam ward logan you. CAN start here i will say
Speaker 5: that like THE first time i was brought On the
Speaker 5: cam Ward Was Through. Saint. ANA moss sure i was
Speaker 5: sitting with him and we Were watching The miami, in
Speaker 5: florida game and he does this kid is going. To
Speaker 5: be special you. Just watch him he's to be something special.
Speaker 5: In the league he meant not just at college and
Speaker 5: he had a. Pretty good season he's most. People's Number,
Speaker 5: one now logan he's, your number one and talk to.
Speaker 1: Me, ABOUT him, YEAH i mean i just think there's
Speaker 1: a maturity, to HIS game. WHICH i, appreciate i, think
Speaker 1: you know he's. An older player he's kicked around to a,
Speaker 1: Couple different programs he's learned. SOME different offenses i think.
Speaker 1: THAT shows up i think there's a composure to him.
Speaker 1: IN the pocket i think there's a natural playmaking. ABILITY
Speaker 1: to him i think he's, aggressive at points almost. TO
Speaker 1: a fault i think he spins the football at. A
Speaker 1: high level i think he handles. Pressure, relatively WELL again,
Speaker 1: LIKE i think i Think the way jerrymy characterized it,
Speaker 1: is he's good not great in a, lot of categories
Speaker 1: and the thing that makes me feel really good about
Speaker 1: it is he does have this kind, of playmaking moxie
Speaker 1: just like when it's time to make when it's, when it's,
Speaker 1: time you know it's it's it's we're getting up. Pressed
Speaker 1: against it he just has an ability to make plays
Speaker 1: and kind of be in the moment. And BE composed
Speaker 1: and i think back to my TIME, in the nfl
Speaker 1: and the best quarterbacks played with were guys that had
Speaker 1: that kind of ice in their veins. At all times
Speaker 1: the moment was never too. Big FROM him and i see,
Speaker 1: That with him and So that's why i'm SO confident
Speaker 1: is i think he's got. A good arm i think
Speaker 1: he's got a good. Composure ABOUT him and i think
Speaker 1: he's got a great knack for making plays when he's got.
Speaker 2: To make him and there's. SOMETHING to that.
Speaker 3: I agree with everything.
Speaker 4: You just said the thing that scares Me about cam
Speaker 4: ward is that he, doesn't Take, singles will.
Speaker 1: Dude great, point great, Point. Great point jude.
Speaker 4: He really likes to hit the home run one d
Speaker 4: percent and he's. GOOD at, it i mean this is
Speaker 4: the reason we don't let children play with fireworks is
Speaker 4: that they find and thinks they can blow, up and
Speaker 4: hey it's such.
Speaker 3: Fun to watch. Don't do that.
Speaker 4: And he has a quality of that of you can
Speaker 4: tell he played at a lower. LEVEL of competition i
Speaker 4: think he did with with all three of his stops
Speaker 4: to be really. On Incarnate Word obviously, Washington state, Obviously
Speaker 4: hey LOOK i'm. An acc guy WE covered the acc.
Speaker 4: Hands ON here the acc is not good, at this
Speaker 4: point Especially Not with. Florida state down and you just
Speaker 4: kind of look through the Games that cam ward had.
Speaker 4: This Past year the florida. TAPE was intriguing i didn't
Speaker 4: love The. Tape against louisville.
Speaker 3: It was fine.
Speaker 4: But wasn't great there's just A lot Of Syracuse in
Speaker 4: Iowa State and wake forest and col Those are not
Speaker 4: those are NOT tapes that i. Can really use AND
Speaker 4: then when I nested and i'm just, going to level
Speaker 4: he's still the SAME guy that i would have had
Speaker 4: as the fifth quarterback in. Last year's class that's hard
Speaker 4: for me to unsee because he came into the twenty
Speaker 4: twenty Four class originally withdrew wanted To Go, to ohio
Speaker 4: state wanted To Go, to florida state and then Finally.
Speaker 4: Settle on miami he would have been behind the three, Highest, End, Guys.
Speaker 4: Jaden drake caleb he would have Also Been. Behind michael,
Speaker 4: pennox for.
Speaker 2: Me is that?
Speaker 5: The worst thing because that was, a Historic, class right
Speaker 5: like so if you throw, that class out how MUCH
Speaker 5: this guy i think? IT will, BE i Mean? I,
Speaker 5: do drakes?
Speaker 4: Okay ALL right and i argued this so much LAST
Speaker 4: year and i didn't know, you Guys then so i'll
Speaker 4: do it in the. Vacuum, RIGHT now sure i THINK
Speaker 4: there's one a plus quarterback, in That. CLASS as jake
Speaker 4: i think there was one eight quarterback, in that class And.
Speaker 4: THAT was drake i think everybody else is a. COMPLETE toss,
Speaker 4: up I?
Speaker 2: THOUGHT what, drake i, Thought? You, said jayden no what are? We? Talking,
Speaker 2: About no JAYDEN was.
Speaker 3: My A plus The, a was drake and then everybody
Speaker 3: else is a.
Speaker 1: Complete, toss up Okay, that was okay dodged, The, Bullet
Speaker 1: THERE no but i THINK that THAT'S i think i
Speaker 1: agree with, that SENTIMENT too because i think There's Holes in.
Speaker 1: MICHAEL pennock's game i think there's more holes in his
Speaker 1: name escapes me at the moment he Plays For. THE
Speaker 1: chicago bears i. Can't Remember, that caleb. WILLIAMS thank you
Speaker 1: i think there are a lot of holes. In, his
Speaker 1: GAME YEAH but i i, like those players YOU know?
Speaker 1: What I mean AND i think I like CAM warden
Speaker 1: and i do think like given his the adversity that
Speaker 1: he's faced, in his career how long he's, been in
Speaker 1: college gives me a lot of Confidence, seeing Bo Nick
Speaker 1: seeing jayden daniels last year and how successful they were
Speaker 1: and how experienced they are navigate some. OF that stuff
Speaker 1: i go Back to, what, jeremy said though you got
Speaker 1: to take a single sometimes.
Speaker 2: And it's boring he's not.
Speaker 1: Great at it and that's something where you Look, at
Speaker 1: bon nix he's great.
Speaker 2: At taking Singles Look, at jayden daniels great. At.
Speaker 1: Taking singles right the issue, with you know some of
Speaker 1: the other quarterbacks we just talked about is they couldn't.
Speaker 1: Take SINGLES well and i think it's going to affect
Speaker 1: them negatively for a long time until they. FIGURE it
Speaker 1: out i think they can. Figure IT out but i
Speaker 1: think that's something With ward that i'm a little.
Speaker 3: Bit worried about list you have to be able.
Speaker 4: To Do That see caleb williams is the exact opposite,
Speaker 4: Side Of that caleb williams. Only takes singles He's Like
Speaker 4: the trot. Nixon of quarterbacks you never hit. Into the
Speaker 4: gap it's just little dribblers. Past THE shortstop why i,
Speaker 4: DIDN'T like him i still, don't LIKE him as i
Speaker 4: did take great Joy And Going nana nanda Boo boo
Speaker 4: at chicago. Fans all year they called.
Speaker 5: Me a moron my, last question then, for quarterbacks specifically
Speaker 5: does coaching and your situation matter the? Most with them
Speaker 5: because you look at Like, jayde and daniels it's not
Speaker 5: taking anything. Away from him really, good coaching staff. Really
Speaker 5: good situation same Thing, With BO nix like i kind
Speaker 5: OF feel like jj McCarthy may have a good year
Speaker 5: just because of the situation. That he's in does that
Speaker 5: how much does that play into success IMMEDIATELY in the
Speaker 5: nfl versus? The prospect evaluation how much time you think
Speaker 5: THEY may TAKE. J.
Speaker 4: Spot j j McCarty is gonna have a great ye
Speaker 4: because hes gonna hold A Clipboard. For aaron rodgers it's
Speaker 4: hard not to have. A good year did? You, drop
Speaker 4: it no that's. A great year. Coaching, definitely matters look
Speaker 4: it's this is a little bit of, of A rant
Speaker 4: so i'll try to consume it down. TO thirty seconds
Speaker 4: i get Railed On for lamar jackson A lot because
Speaker 4: i did not see HIM as. An nfl quarterback now
Speaker 4: he's won a couple of MVPs where people really the
Speaker 4: thing that you forget Is That, the baltimore ravens which
Speaker 4: are one of the best drafting teams, in this league
Speaker 4: they committed every Available Resource to lamar jackson from the
Speaker 4: minute he walked into that building, until right now and.
Speaker 4: It's never stopped they have been fully. Committed to him
Speaker 4: where teams fall short with quarterbacks is that you don't
Speaker 4: FULLY invest the jj McCarthy's of the world need. Every single.
Speaker 4: Snap all right This Flirtation with aaron, rodgers is dumb
Speaker 4: but it's not going to lead you where you, want
Speaker 4: it to and it's taking precious snaps.
Speaker 3: Away from McCarthy if you.
Speaker 4: Fully lock In If the tennessee titans fully lock In
Speaker 4: on cam ward is their guy and every decision they
Speaker 4: make for the next three years is making. HIM their
Speaker 4: guy I think cam ward can be a top ten
Speaker 4: to twelve quarterback.
Speaker 2: IN the league i think.
Speaker 4: Should do her if you do, THE same thing i
Speaker 4: think can be a, top Twenty guy And I'll say
Speaker 4: jackson dork can be a. TOP fifteen guy.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really nice way. OF putting it
Speaker 1: i think if the team puts a, LOT of resources
Speaker 1: i think the other important thing just to note is
Speaker 1: you got to have the right.
Speaker 2: Kind of guy See know.
Speaker 1: What I'M saying so i think if You look at
Speaker 1: indianapolis and what they've Done With, an anthony richardson they've given, him,
Speaker 1: A lot right they've, Supported him well they've brought an
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator who can speak to. His skill set he
Speaker 1: has not supported them with. His work ethic the thing
Speaker 1: that gives me Confidence that cam ward given the, right
Speaker 1: coaching situation he's going to work at it right because
Speaker 1: he had to work at it Same Thing. With jane
Speaker 1: daniel so if you support the quarterback and they've got
Speaker 1: the right work ethic and they've, GOT the talent i
Speaker 1: think that's where you get that kind. Of magic elixir,
Speaker 1: BUT you know i think that's going to do it. For,
Speaker 1: the show right, we're all done and.
Speaker 5: Just so, our fans know we're recording this. A little
Speaker 5: early by the time, it Comes Out maybe aaron rodgers
Speaker 5: has signed So for but the POINT is that i really.
Speaker 5: LOVE this discussion i really love when You come ON
Speaker 5: Jeremy The. Espn Draft, nerd jeremy green tell us where
Speaker 5: we can. Find Your Stuff the sports oocracy. Is my
Speaker 5: show it's, just like democracy. But with sports you can
Speaker 5: find that on all.
Speaker 4: The social MEDIA'S I'm At espn Draft nerd on twitter
Speaker 4: and my latest four round mock Draft for the commanders.
Speaker 3: IS dropping Tonight i think i'm. Dropping it, tonight if
Speaker 3: not what's?
Speaker 1: The date though like the date? Is the Date today,
Speaker 1: is march Seventeenth So. This, patrick's day yes this show
Speaker 1: is going to come out a, little bit later. Probably.
Speaker 1: Next week right so if if you're listening to this
Speaker 1: now And You're a, washington commanders fan make sure you
Speaker 1: go Back and find jeremy's for four round mock Draft For. The,
Speaker 1: washington commanders jeremy thanks so much. FOR joining us i
Speaker 1: learned so MUCH every time i. Talk to you, you're
Speaker 1: a blast, love your comparisons. Love your analysis we'll have
Speaker 1: to have you out again one more time before the.
Speaker 2: Draft comes around the number is.
Speaker 4: Always the same i'm a pretty easy you GOTTA fun
Speaker 4: and i enjoy it with you.
Speaker 3: Guys as well thank, You. So much jamie that is
Speaker 3: it absolutely m m hmmm mm hmm