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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Alison Flom. Welcome back to Erased. In the

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Speaker 1: last episode, Colden disproved the theory that Elma could have

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Speaker 1: taken her own life. He proved that there was a

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Speaker 1: struggle with someone else leading up to her death. Witnesses

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Speaker 1: heard screams of murder and help me from the area

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Speaker 1: of the Manhattan Well. Other witnesses placed Levi at the

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Speaker 1: murder site, potentially with his brother, who built it on

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Speaker 1: commission for Aaron Burr's company. So Coldon's task was just

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Speaker 1: to defend his version of events against whatever strategy his

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Speaker 1: opponents had in store. At the beginning of day two

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Speaker 1: of this trial, there was an eagerness in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: to get this done, to see justice prevail. To the public,

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Speaker 1: the crowds that showed up in the cold to wait

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Speaker 1: outside the courthouse through another trial day, to nearly everyone

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Speaker 1: in New York, seeing Levi weeks charged with murder would

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Speaker 1: restore a sense of peace. It would help relieve at

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Speaker 1: least a little bit of the pain that seeing Alma's

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Speaker 1: battered corpse had caused. Alexander Hamilton and Erinberg were busy

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Speaker 1: through the night. They came back caffeinated in fresh suits

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Speaker 1: with a new plan.

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Speaker 2: Order in the chambers. Order good morning, good morning shirt.

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Speaker 1: Once everyone settled in the defense lawyers called Joseph Watkins,

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Speaker 1: the Rings neighbor on Greenwich Street, back up to the stand.

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Speaker 3: Good morning everybody. Oh you look well rested, mister Hamilton.

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Speaker 4: I feel good. Mister Watkins. You've got a lot to

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Speaker 4: tell us. Yesterday you testified for the prosecution. I should

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Speaker 4: Did you said you found Elma's body in the well

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Speaker 4: and laid her out on your jacket? Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Exactly?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 4: And what was your relationship to the victim at the

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Speaker 4: time of her death?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I knew Elma for years, for as long as she

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Speaker 3: lived at the Rings.

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Speaker 4: And how do you know the Rings?

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Speaker 3: I share a whole wall in my house with them,

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Speaker 3: So you and.

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Speaker 4: The Rings essentially live in the same house right now.

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Speaker 3: No, two different houses, different addresses, different entryways. They're too

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Speaker 3: A eight. I'm to ten. They were a boarding house

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Speaker 3: in Millinery. We're a single family rowhouse, but it's one

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Speaker 3: big structure.

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Speaker 5: Do you need a floor plan of the Rings in

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Speaker 5: Watkinson's houses? I have one if that.

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Speaker 6: Might help, that's all right, coldon, No one really cares

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Speaker 6: about floor plans. Mister Watkins, who do.

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Speaker 4: You live with?

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Speaker 3: My wife Liz, my daughter Betsy, and our cat and

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Speaker 3: rose Lynn. I call them my three queens.

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Speaker 4: That's sweet. Did you and your family ever overhear Elma

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Speaker 4: in the back bedroom on the second floor of the

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Speaker 4: Rings house? What?

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Speaker 1: That's very specific, an alarmingly specific question. Actually, you might

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Speaker 1: remember in episode one, the defense lawyers asked Catherine where

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Speaker 1: Elma and Levi slept. It was a distinct and unprompted

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Speaker 1: question about the back room on the second floor in

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Speaker 1: the house, particularly the thin plaster partition that it's shared

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Speaker 1: with the neighbor, Joseph Watkins's house, so they knew exactly

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Speaker 1: what Watkins was about to say.

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Speaker 3: That room happens to be closest to my bedroom, mister Hamilton,

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Speaker 3: So we'd hear Elma a lot?

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Speaker 4: What types of sounds did Alma make? Objection relevance a

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Speaker 4: better question, actually, mister Watkins. In the months before Elma died,

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Speaker 4: did you hear anything unusual?

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Speaker 3: Well, i'd hear getting dressed, tripping on a stockings, singing

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Speaker 3: to herself.

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Speaker 5: Singing to herself. That's what happy people do.

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Speaker 6: That's also what hysterical women do, mister Watkins.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell us about last September.

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Speaker 3: Last September, height of the pandemic, tons of people dying

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Speaker 3: from the fever, New York was quiet. I'd spent long

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Speaker 3: days in the house quarantining.

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Speaker 4: And what did you hear coming from Elma's room during

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Speaker 4: that time?

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Speaker 3: I didn't expect to hear anything because I thought all

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Speaker 3: the women in the Rings house had gone up to

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Speaker 3: New Cornwall.

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Speaker 4: But Elma stayed home with all the men.

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Speaker 3: You got that right. And when I heard that, I

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Speaker 3: told my wife. You know what I said to her.

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Speaker 3: I said, somebody's gonna ruin that girl.

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Speaker 4: Yes, continue, mister Watkins.

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Speaker 3: One night my wall started shaking, thumping, like Elma's bed

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Speaker 3: was moving on the other side. My wife and I

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Speaker 3: listened closely.

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Speaker 4: What did you hear, mister Watkins?

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Speaker 3: You want to know what I heard? I heard Elma.

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Speaker 3: I heard Elma wintern and what else?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 3: I heard Elias ring. He was grunting and scolding objection

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Speaker 3: corner in the chambers.

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Speaker 8: Mister Watkins, did you say you heard Elias ring in

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Speaker 8: Elma's bedroom?

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Speaker 3: That's right, your honor. I heard Elias ring ruining Elma sad,

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Speaker 3: Oh God over again.

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Speaker 1: This moment was earth shattering for Coldon's case and for Thren,

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Speaker 1: for everyone.

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Speaker 9: Mister is flying your honor.

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Speaker 1: If what Joseph Watkins claim to under oath was true.

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Speaker 1: Elias Ring repeatedly raped his niece, Elma Sands in his

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Speaker 1: home in the months before she was murdered. Order stop order,

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Speaker 1: And while all the evidence did point away from Alma

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Speaker 1: taking her own life on that December night, this testimony

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Speaker 1: painted a very different picture of what was happening in

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Speaker 1: the boarding house and what Elma's life may have actually

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Speaker 1: been like. Obviously, this caused chaos, as the defense lawyers

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Speaker 1: intended the jury's attention turned towards Elias Ring, away from

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Speaker 1: Levi Weeks, Your honor.

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Speaker 10: There's no evidence to suggest Elma and Elias Ring were

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Speaker 10: engaging in anything sectional.

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Speaker 4: Elias Ring was inflicting non consensual sex on Alma Sands

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Speaker 4: right before she died, Elias tortured her and drove her

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Speaker 4: to suicide.

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Speaker 5: That's it, mister Watkins.

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Speaker 10: You probably heard Levi Weeks and Elma room they began

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Speaker 10: an intimate relationship during that period of quarantine.

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Speaker 3: Uh Ah, it wasn't Levi, Sir. I'd recognize Elias Ring's

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Speaker 3: voice anywhere. It was definitely an Elias Ring.

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Speaker 5: Would you do this?

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Speaker 10: You're you're speculated, Yes, speculation overruled.

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Speaker 8: This is constable. Please remove mister Ring from the chambers

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Speaker 8: yet again? How does he keep getting in here? Just

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Speaker 8: removed him now, silence, mister Ring.

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Speaker 6: I will, mister Watkins, how many times did you overhear

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Speaker 6: this improper intercourse between mister Ring and Elma?

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Speaker 3: Approximately oh nine or ten fourteen times? When Levi Weeks

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Speaker 3: was out of the house, mister Ring would.

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Speaker 4: Slither right there and you hear the violence.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'd hear Alma cry herself to sleep.

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Speaker 4: And this continued until Catherine Ring came home to the city.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Once Catherine came back, I never heard Elias and Elma's

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Speaker 3: roam again.

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Speaker 6: Because Elias was behaving himself better around his.

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Speaker 3: Wife, Your honor, a question from the jury. It's for

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Speaker 3: Catherine Ring.

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Speaker 5: Is that okay?

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Speaker 2: I think so?

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Speaker 3: Catherine? Is this the first you're hearing of your husband's deviance?

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Speaker 5: She doesn't have to answer that, Actually she does.

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Speaker 11: Catherine, Yes, this is the first I'm hearing about it

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Speaker 11: because it is not true.

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Speaker 5: It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 9: Uncle Elias would never Yes, it's ridiculous. My neighbor and

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Speaker 9: former friend.

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Speaker 11: Joseph Watkins has just testified to something false. And yes

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Speaker 11: it's the first I'm hearing it because it's Catherine Foss.

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Speaker 4: While Elma was alive? Did you protect her from danger?

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Speaker 9: What sort of danger did you.

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Speaker 4: Protect Elma from? Your husband?

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Speaker 11: My husban is not the one she needed protection from.

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Speaker 5: Elias Ring is not on trial.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 6: Elias Ring drove the victim to suicide.

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Speaker 5: You made that up, mister Burton.

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Speaker 9: I protected Alma perfectly. My husband, Elias protected her as well.

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Speaker 11: Alma was safe with us until leeve weeks.

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Speaker 4: Mister Watkins, is Catherine Ring trustworthy?

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Speaker 3: Ben's what you mean by trustworthy?

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Speaker 4: Do you trust her? Do you believe that she was

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Speaker 4: actually ignorant of her husband's behavior?

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Speaker 3: You know, I never know what to believe when it

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Speaker 3: comes to women, Like I always tell my wife, women

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Speaker 3: speak their own language, and I don't understand it.

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Speaker 5: Can I talk to your wife, mister Watkins?

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Speaker 3: Why Caldon my wife is not here, sir?

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Speaker 10: And why is that Alma's next door neighbor seems like

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Speaker 10: a keyywitness in her murder trial.

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Speaker 3: Liz couldn't make it today. She provided a written testimony.

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Speaker 5: How does that work.

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Speaker 10: She wrote a little note for you to bring to court,

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Speaker 10: your honor, This is getting out of hand.

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Speaker 8: Mister Colden in advance that Elizabeth Watkins would be unable

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Speaker 8: to appear in court, and we prepared accordingly.

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Speaker 5: And why can't she appear in court?

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Speaker 3: Her breasts have been very sore infested for several weeks. Wait,

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Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what's wrong, but she's in pain.

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Speaker 5: Well I need to question her.

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Speaker 3: I can speak for my wife on any outstanding points.

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Speaker 3: We both heard Elma Sands being ruined.

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Speaker 8: No need to speak for her, mister Watkins. Mister Coldon

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Speaker 8: should find her written testimony comprehensive and sufficient enough.

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Speaker 3: All right, without further ado. Testimony of Elizabeth see Watkins.

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Speaker 2: Mark you read it, please absolutely.

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Speaker 5: Your honor. Testimony of Elizabeth C.

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Speaker 12: Watkins, collected by Chief Justice John Lansing, Alexander Hamilton and

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Speaker 12: Yours truly, twenty eighth of March eighteen hundred at the

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Speaker 12: Watkins residence.

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Speaker 5: Wait wait, wait, wait, leave your honor.

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Speaker 10: You went with the Defense Council to collect a testimony

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Speaker 10: without my knowledge, the result of which could influence my

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Speaker 10: entire case.

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Speaker 5: That just doesn't seem right.

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Speaker 8: This is how the system works, mister Coldon, according to

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Speaker 8: whom we had to adjust because.

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Speaker 2: Of her breasts.

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Speaker 1: So just like that, precedents were being set that would

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Speaker 1: remain in the system through this moment today. It was

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Speaker 1: decided then that written affidavits were admissible evidence. Thus Colden

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Speaker 1: couldn't question a key witness about the Elias allegations because

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Speaker 1: Hamilton and Burr found a loophole, and once again he

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Speaker 1: was out maneuvered.

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Speaker 12: Catherine Ring the hat maker, chats with me about her

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Speaker 12: borders from the day Levi Weeks moved in.

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Speaker 5: Catherine spoke highly of him. What we're not actually admitting

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Speaker 5: this written testimony? Are we?

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Speaker 12: Supposedly Levi is the best border to aweight Greenwich ever had,

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Speaker 12: Your honor, there are discrepancies and lies all over this testimony.

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Speaker 2: Let's just hear the whole thing.

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Speaker 8: Coldon Clerk, Wait minute, your honor, relax cold This is

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Speaker 8: inadmissible evidence.

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Speaker 2: I'll be the judge of that.

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Speaker 5: This is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Please sit down, mister Colton.

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Speaker 6: The judge said, keep your pants on, mister Colton.

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Speaker 12: Sorry, your honor, this part has a bunch of stuff

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Speaker 12: crossed out and written in the margins. Okay, new paragraph

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Speaker 12: missus Watkins says, the first time I saw Alma Sands,

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Speaker 12: I remember thinking that sweet miserable girl.

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Speaker 5: Won't make it to thirty in New York. Objection, What

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Speaker 5: could that possibly mean?

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Speaker 4: You can't object to her written testimony? Coldon stop interrupted, This.

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Speaker 10: Just doesn't seem fair, you're honor clerk. I wasn't there

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Speaker 10: when this testimony was collected.

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Speaker 8: Because it's a testimony for the defense's case.

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Speaker 2: Clerk.

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Speaker 5: Missus Watkins continues.

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Speaker 12: When I heard the rumor that Elma Sands ended her

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Speaker 12: own life, I felt relieved for her.

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Speaker 10: We have heard countless testimonies about how cheerful and happy

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Speaker 10: and joyous Alma Sands was.

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Speaker 6: And now we're hearing about how miserable and suicidal she

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Speaker 6: was because she was being repeatedly raped by Elias ring

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Speaker 6: the two sides to every Sorry bud.

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Speaker 2: You gentlemen, still have a witness on the stand.

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Speaker 6: Mister Watkins. How about your daughter Betsy? She was close

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Speaker 6: to Alma? Right?

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Speaker 5: I don't think they were close.

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Speaker 9: Yes, Alma hardly knew Betsy.

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Speaker 3: Betsy and Elma would sitting on a stooferoles just chatting away.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring her up in hopes of enhancing this dramatic

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Speaker 1: testimony and continuing to paint a picture of Elma as miserable.

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Speaker 1: The defense called Joseph's daughter Betsy Watkins and described her

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Speaker 1: as a friend of the deceased acquaintance.

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Speaker 9: Excuse me, daddy, it's my true.

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Speaker 1: Oh I like it up here.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, miss Watkins.

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Speaker 13: It's Betsy to you, mister Hamilton.

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Speaker 4: Uh Bessy. Alexander characterized Elma's sands for the jury. Who

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Speaker 4: was Alma?

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Speaker 13: She was a melancholy, depressed, pale weirdo, not in a

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Speaker 13: mean way. She was kind of like a baby goat.

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Speaker 13: You know, I knew she wasn't a virgin objection?

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Speaker 5: What is she talking about?

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Speaker 4: Betsy? On the day Elma disappeared, did you see her?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 13: I saw her almost every day.

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Speaker 6: What was she doing that day, December twenty second?

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Speaker 13: She was looking in the mirror, tying a handkerchief around

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Speaker 13: her neck in different styles?

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Speaker 6: How did she appear to you?

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Speaker 1: Prettier than usual?

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Speaker 3: I guess she had lipstick on.

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Speaker 1: Finally, so I.

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Speaker 6: Meant, how did she seem disposition wise?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Stirr rest, mister burr.

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Speaker 13: Super stressed yet like pale, nervous, kind of.

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Speaker 6: Breathy like she might be on her way to commit suicide,

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Speaker 6: objection leading the witness.

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Speaker 13: I've never seen someone on their way to commit suicide.

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Speaker 6: But she didn't look like she was on her way

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Speaker 6: to get married, right, A person getting married would look happy, excited.

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Speaker 13: Well, to be honest, I've never seen anyone on their

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Speaker 13: way to get married either, But if I.

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Speaker 6: Had to guess, that'sy miss Watkins.

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Speaker 13: Aaron, mister Burr.

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Speaker 6: Did Elmo look frightened that day? Or did she look happy?

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Speaker 6: Or did she look sad?

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Speaker 14: None of those things?

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Speaker 6: Then? How did Elmo look? Betsy?

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Speaker 13: She looked kind of cry when I saw her, But honestly,

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Speaker 13: after Catherine left for the quarantine and then came back,

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Speaker 13: Alma always looks sad.

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Speaker 14: To me.

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Speaker 6: She was sad and her sadness took her life. Not

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Speaker 6: LEVI weeks.

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Speaker 5: What I spent all of yesterday proving that Elma was happy.

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Speaker 1: To override Coldon's witnesses, the defense then called four expert witnesses, doctors,

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Speaker 1: real doctors to one up Coldon on the science, not.

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Speaker 6: Dentists who once read a book on autopsies to confirm

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Speaker 6: that Elma Sans committed suicide.

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Speaker 5: I've already proven that Alma wasn't alone when she died.

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Speaker 5: She screamed, murder.

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Speaker 6: Can you stop interrupting? Coldon, there was no.

297
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Speaker 1: Suicide, so the defense kept bringing up the theory that

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Speaker 1: Alma took her own life, even though this was a

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00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 1: try murder and the coroner's jury had declared this a

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00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: murder months before, and although their job was to determine

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Speaker 1: a person's cause of death, the coroner's jury was not

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Speaker 1: a jury, and there were no coroners involved, and the

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00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 1: defense lawyers knew how this process went. The coroner's jury

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Speaker 1: was a guy in a room, not a doctor, but

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Speaker 1: he called himself a coroner who paid his friends and

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00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: colleagues to come in and decide how the dead person died.

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Speaker 1: And whatever they decided when they gathered around and looked

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Speaker 1: at the corpse became the findings for the case. And

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00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 1: in this case, the coroner's jury examined Alma's body twelve

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Speaker 1: days after it was found, which was eleven days after

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Speaker 1: she went missing, and determined as a group of pals

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Speaker 1: and non medical professionals that her cause of death was

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00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: indeed murder. And then they probably went to lunch, and

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Speaker 1: the case for Elma Sans relied on the decision that

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Speaker 1: they came to. On that January afternoon, Hamilton and Burr

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00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 1: called doctor Nicholas Romayne.

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Speaker 6: What did you see, doctor?

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Speaker 15: I saw a girl's body, mister Burr, super dead.

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Speaker 1: Who was actually doctor David Hosac's mentor and former teacher. Truly,

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00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 1: everyone knew each other except coldon.

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Speaker 6: Any specific observations about the corpse.

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00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 5: Oh not much.

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00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 15: Scratches, bruising on the knee and that's all right, yeah, scars,

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Speaker 15: algrove skin standard stuff.

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Speaker 5: Hold on, is it standard for a young girl to

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Speaker 5: be covered in scars?

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00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 15: I don't know many young girls, mister Colton, but Elma

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Speaker 15: skin was all blistered and weather beaten in addition to

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00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 15: the injuries.

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Speaker 1: And then, for even further reinforcement, they called New York's

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Speaker 1: most elite doctors up to the stand, first doctor McIntosh,

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Speaker 1: then doctor Prince Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton knew the

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00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 1: system like the backs of their hands because they helped

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Speaker 1: create it. They called New York's most elite and respected

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Speaker 1: physicians up to the stand. And these guys were all

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Speaker 1: friends and colleagues. They were on the boards of each

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00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,880
Speaker 1: other's foundations, starting medical colleges together the defense lawyers knew

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00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 1: exactly what these doctors would tell the jury. In fact,

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00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,240
Speaker 1: they probably all planted out together at the pub.

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Speaker 5: I noticed four contusions on her breast, like she'd been grabbed.

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Speaker 6: But doctor Macintosh, the injuries on the corpse were minimal, right, Yeah,

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00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 6: she was just scraped up from bouncing around in the

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Speaker 6: Manhattan well for eleven days, right, not from violence inflicted

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Speaker 6: by another person.

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Speaker 5: Objection.

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Speaker 10: Doctor The Corner's jury unanimously ruled this a murder when

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Speaker 10: they saw Alma's body.

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00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, but none of those guys are corners.

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Speaker 10: So you genuinely believe Alma Sance died by drowning.

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00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 5: There was a spoonful of water in her lungs. Water

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00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 5: in her lungs.

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Speaker 6: So what does that mean, Doctor Romaine?

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00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 7: It means and she was still breathing when she hit

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Speaker 7: the water. It means she threw herself in the left objection, Nope.

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Speaker 2: Continue.

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00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 7: As soon as I saw Alma's body, I thought she

357
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Speaker 7: probably took her own life.

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Speaker 3: She was pretty, but she was ugly, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 6: Of course, you're being very clear.

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00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 7: It's hard to believe she wasn't pregnant. I thought for

362
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 7: sure we'd find a baby when we opened her up, Doctor.

363
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 10: Romaine, what about the row of bruises on Elma's neck

364
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 10: and breast? What did you make of those? I'll rephrase.

365
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 10: Could the bruises on Elma's neck and breast have been

366
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 10: caused by someone's fingers?

367
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: Hmm?

368
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 7: I see skin that's been gangreened all the time at

369
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 7: the Almshouse. The swollen, dark tissue could have been from anything.

370
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,120
Speaker 10: I wasn't asking about gangreen doctor, I was asking about

371
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 10: these specific bruises being caused by someone else's hands.

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00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 7: I've already said, based on what I've observed, I think

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00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,200
Speaker 7: Alma San's committed suicide.

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00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 3: That's all I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful And then, in the spirit of thoroughness and scientific proof,

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00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 1: the defense lawyers recalled their friend David.

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00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 16: Hi again, everyone, energy isn't here is amazing legend.

378
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 4: It's because of you. You ready, Doc hit me yesterday

379
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,239
Speaker 4: You've testified that Almo's body might have been injured by

380
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 4: another person? Is that correct?

381
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 14: Yes, that's what I said yesterday.

382
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 6: And would you like to add to that statement?

383
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:23,159
Speaker 1: Now?

384
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 16: Well, I'm of two minds here, you guys. I stand

385
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 16: by my previous testimony. I mean that was a battered corpse,

386
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 16: injured and mangled and bad. But remember I didn't even

387
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 16: see the body until the coroner's jury, so a lot

388
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 16: could have happened before then.

389
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,959
Speaker 6: So what does that mean? Doctor?

390
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 16: The coroner's jury met several days after Elma was pulled

391
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,439
Speaker 16: out of the water, but before that, missus Ring displayed

392
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 16: the body in a box on her property. People were

393
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 16: touching it, handling it, moving it around to examine it.

394
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 16: So so it's possible that the neck got broken posthumously.

395
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 6: Because of Catherine Ring's calculated, manipulative decisions. Elma's neck was broken,

396
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 6: not because of violence or choking. Catherine made this look

397
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 6: like a murder.

398
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 15: Mister Colby objection.

399
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,199
Speaker 5: Everyone was so careful, LEVI was fraided. Catherine could not

400
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:22,399
Speaker 5: have bruised the corpse.

401
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 14: I disagree, mister Colden Corner.

402
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,679
Speaker 6: Thank you doctor. Nothing further.

403
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: Yes, they literally tried to blame Catherine, and these details

404
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: were completely different from what doctor Hoseak had testified to

405
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,360
Speaker 1: the day before.

406
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 5: Doctor Hosek, do you often change your mind overnight?

407
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 1: Maybe the defense lawyers got to speak to their friend

408
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: during the overnight adjournment and convince him to change his testimony.

409
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 3: Mister Colden, Knowledge is fickle, but facts are.

410
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 4: Not objection badgering our witness.

411
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 10: Again, my witness, Doctor Hosek, did you sit on the

412
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 10: coroner's journey which unanimously voted that Alma Sans was murdered?

413
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 10: I did, sir, So you said, as a member of

414
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 10: New York's trusted coroner's jury, that Alma Sans's cause of

415
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 10: death was murdered by violence? Right, yes, and yesterday you

416
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 10: stood by that decision.

417
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 2: I did.

418
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,479
Speaker 10: But today you're suddenly abandoning those facts, suddenly suggesting Alma's

419
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 10: death could have been a suicide. You changed your mind

420
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 10: between yesterday and today, right, I just want to make

421
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 10: sure you're as flaky as you've seen Coldin.

422
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 6: Can you cease harassing our witness and at least pred

423
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 6: tend to be professional.

424
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 16: There's a lot of new information now. I didn't realize

425
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 16: Alma's life was so traumatic.

426
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 11: How was my cousin's life traumatic her chaotic sex relations alone?

427
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 10: How are alma sex relations relevant to the scientific autopsy

428
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 10: of her body?

429
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 16: Doctor Hosek, I have new insight now, mister Colden. Science

430
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 16: is like that, sometimes it builds on itself.

431
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 10: I have nothing further for this witness step down doctor Hosak.

432
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: And for their next trick, the defense called Timothy Crane

433
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: to the stand another short term border at two o

434
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: eight Grenache Street.

435
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 4: Mister Crane will get right into it. You're personally acquainted

436
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 4: with both Levi and as were Weeks.

437
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 15: Right, yeah, yeah, I work for Ezra Weeks and uh listen,

438
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 15: Levi and Ezra are both good men.

439
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 4: How would you characterize Levi Weeks specifically?

440
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 15: Honest, hardworking, well rounded? Yeah, yeah, all integrity all the time.

441
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 9: Are you kidding?

442
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: And how about Alma Sands?

443
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 15: Unstable, insecure, melancholy, hard to talk to, always chasing a high.

444
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 15: You know, that's why I was never attracted to her

445
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 15: or anything.

446
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 4: So Elma was suicidal?

447
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: Perhaps objection? There's overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

448
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 8: Mister Crane provided a jury with specific examples.

449
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 15: Well, be honest, sir, I didn't get to know Elma

450
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 15: that well exactly.

451
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 4: That's okay, Timothy. Just tell us how you know she

452
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: was depressed?

453
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 5: You're honor a question for Katherine Ring.

454
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 4: Objection?

455
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 8: He keeps interrupted, Yes, mister Colton, make it quick, coldon

456
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 8: missus Ring.

457
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 10: How many days did this witness Timothy Crane overlap with

458
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 10: Elma in.

459
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 9: Your home less than two week, literally want week. He

460
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 9: doesn't know anything almost so why did they get to

461
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 9: ask him what? I genuinely believe?

462
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 11: It was eight days, sir, when he was between accommodations,

463
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 11: a little bit before Christmas.

464
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 10: And Alma was murdered on the twenty second of December.

465
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 10: This witness didn't know Elm at all whatsoever?

466
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: I disagreed. This witness knew Elma for several days before

467
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 4: she killed herself, and he has valuable insight if you'd

468
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: ever let him get to testify.

469
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: All right, continue, mister crane.

470
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 15: Okay, So one night we called a doctor to the house.

471
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 15: What Ford Russell had hemorrhoids and he wanted Perudian bark.

472
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 15: It was me, Russell and Elma in the parlor.

473
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 14: No try sleeping on your stomach.

474
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: Okay, Am I dying? Doctor?

475
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 4: Just tell me so.

476
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 5: Far from it, sir.

477
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 14: Just an unflamed irritation of your bumhole. I've seen worse bumholes.

478
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 14: In fact, I've seen your bumhole look worse.

479
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 9: Do you want another whiskey, Russell or tea?

480
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm a whiskey. I'm dying and these are my

481
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 2: final breaths.

482
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 3: Don't bother.

483
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 5: He's knocked out.

484
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 14: All right, kids, I'm out of here. Keep his feet elevated.

485
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 9: Oh should I grab more books for under his feet?

486
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 14: Perfect? Yes, thank you.

487
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: Doctor before you go.

488
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm do you buy any chance?

489
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Have any laud in them in your trunk?

490
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 14: Of course I have? Every doctor has them.

491
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: Could I have just a little?

492
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 4: Please?

493
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 14: Are you congested? Coughing? Experiencing physical pain?

494
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 5: Wait?

495
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 14: What's a lot?

496
00:24:59,040 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: I take it sometime?

497
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 14: Oh you've had it before?

498
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? I love it.

499
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 5: You love laudanum?

500
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I dig a whole vile of it if I could.

501
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 14: Don't joke like that, Alma, too much laudinum would kill you.

502
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 4: So the idea of overdosing on drugs was funny to Alma.

503
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 6: Did the doctor give her the drugs?

504
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 15: He put a few drops under her tongue right before

505
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 15: he left, but he wouldn't give her the file.

506
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 4: And mister Crane, you didn't try the laudinum.

507
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 3: Right, why would I?

508
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 15: I wasn't sick.

509
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: Do people your age tend to crave full bottles of

510
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 4: heavy medication.

511
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 15: An intense opiate for no reason?

512
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 5: No?

513
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 15: Most people my age are happy.

514
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: So almost drug use suggests she was in a dark

515
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 4: place mentally just before she died. Was that right?

516
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 15: If she was experiencing unwanted intercourse by Elias ring and

517
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 15: she was craving excess quantities of laudanum, Yeah, yeah, I'd

518
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 15: say Alma was in a bad spot.

519
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: So this kid lived in the same house as Elma

520
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: for just over a week, but he characterized her as opiate, addicted, depressed,

521
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: and suicidal. And then he made Levi sound like an

522
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: absolute angel. But did you hear that key detail that

523
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Coldon missed? This witness worked for Ezra Weeks. Of course

524
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: he'd say anything for the Week's brothers. He was on

525
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: their payroll. The defense lawyers overwhelmed the jury with as

526
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: many theories and stories as possible. Each of their arguments

527
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: had only one or two witnesses to substantiate it, and

528
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: then they'd move on to a new, distracting allegation. But

529
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: it was working. Midway through day two, the jury's attention

530
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: was far away from Levi Weeks. So can you blame

531
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: Coldon for missing key details? He had to put out

532
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: so many fires that his own argument got lost in

533
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: the sauce. This case was supposed to be simple, and

534
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: justice was supposed to be clear, but Colden couldn't begin

535
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: to disprove everything his opponents were throwing at him, and

536
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: the jury, Hamilton and Burr shifted gears.

537
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 4: After this, we'll call our next witness, our most important

538
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 4: witness so.

539
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 5: Far, all the witnesses are important.

540
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: Ezra week to talk about what a good guy Leave

541
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: I was. So what really happened on December seventeen ninety

542
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: next episode, We're one step closer to finding out. Stay

543
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: with us erased. The Murder of Elma Sans is a

544
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: production of Lunch Plans and Lava for Good Podcasts in

545
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number One. The show is narrated,

546
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: written and produced by me Alison Flamm. It stars Alison

547
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: Williams as Catherine Ring, Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Barry

548
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: Scheck as Aaron Burr, and Jason Flamm as Judge John Dancing.

549
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Alison Williams, Jason Flamm, and Kevin Mortis.

550
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: This show is produced by Goldhalk Productions. The show is

551
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: sound designed and mixed by Steve Bond. The music is

552
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: composed and performed by Sasha Putnam. The producer for Goldhalk

553
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: is Andy Goddard, with production management from Emma Hearn, the

554
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: executive producer for goldhalk Is John Scott Dryden. You can

555
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: listen to every episode of Erased the Murder of Alma

556
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: Sands right now ad free by subscribing to Lava for

557
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: Good plus on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow the

558
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: show on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for

559
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: Good and For more information on this story, plus a

560
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: complete list of our incredible cast, visit Lava Forgod dot com.

561
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: Slash Erased