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Speaker 1: Nice to meet you, very nice to meet you. I'm

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Speaker 1: a pretty big fan, so, oh, thank you. You're like

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Speaker 1: the holy Grail of women entrepreneurs.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. So

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Speaker 2: I found you on social media. And you do sort

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Speaker 2: of like these therapy snippets on relationships in the car

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Speaker 2: and you have a practice, you have patients. I do.

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Speaker 3: I have clients.

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Speaker 1: I'm a relationship coach and I've been running my practice

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Speaker 1: now for about four years. So it's been a real

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Speaker 1: blessing and a real joy. I was in academia before that.

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Speaker 1: I was the director of a clinical psychology program at

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Speaker 1: a university, and so I did that for a number

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Speaker 1: of years and taught in psychology. So what is your training.

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Speaker 1: My training is in social psychology. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are not familiar with that because it is a

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Speaker 1: smaller part of the discipline. So about thirty three percent

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Speaker 1: of the discipline is clinical psychology and they deal with,

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Speaker 1: you know, severe mental illness, and then we have the

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Speaker 1: rest of us who are specialized in different areas of psychology.

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Speaker 1: So social psychology is just really the study of human interaction.

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Speaker 1: So I am basically a researcher in human behavior expert

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Speaker 1: in romantic relationships, So I study relationships from kind of

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Speaker 1: a scientific point of view, and then I went into coaching,

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Speaker 1: which is just fundamentally kind of a different avenue than therapy.

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Speaker 1: It's really focused on the science and then results, you know,

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Speaker 1: and being very prescriptive and results oriented, versus kind of

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Speaker 1: like processing and discovery, which is a lot more of

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Speaker 1: what therapy is about.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So my question is, so you talk a lot

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Speaker 2: about attachment, attachment disorder, all the different attachment styles, and

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Speaker 2: I think we're in the era of like a designing

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Speaker 2: certain labels to people that you're in a relationship with.

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Speaker 2: Because for the first time ever, I heard someone talk

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Speaker 2: about personality types in order to find matches, like and

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Speaker 2: there's this personality test that I thought was amazing online

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Speaker 2: that I took, my friends took that was spot on.

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Speaker 2: I was the protagonist, shocking someone else. I knew the

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Speaker 2: woman who runs my company is the commander, which was

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Speaker 2: perfect and like, but the description is really amazing, and

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Speaker 2: this is going to sound like it's belittling the rest

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Speaker 2: of this. But I also do now look at someone's

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Speaker 2: astrological sign. I don't live in this anymore than I

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Speaker 2: live in what you talk about, which is attachment styles.

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Speaker 2: But I do think there's something to all of it. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I think there's something to the personality types. I think

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Speaker 2: there's something to the attachment styles, and I do think

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Speaker 2: there's something to the astrological signs, for example, and then

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Speaker 2: the love languages, like all these things. So let's just

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Speaker 2: talk about all these things and how someone could sort

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Speaker 2: of boil this down because, for example, let's say you're

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Speaker 2: let's say you want to lose weight, and you're going

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Speaker 2: to be like, I'm going to do the eat right

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Speaker 2: for your type, your blood type, and to get my

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Speaker 2: blood taken because someone said that, but someone else said macrobiotic,

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Speaker 2: but someone else said carb and keto and look, so

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Speaker 2: it's like hard to know how to be educated and

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Speaker 2: then also not be debilitated by trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: all these things that also could freak someone else out.

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Speaker 1: Sure, absolutely, I completely understand where you're coming from, and

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Speaker 1: I definitely agree with you. And I think from my

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Speaker 1: point of view as a scientist, I think the place

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Speaker 1: that I like to look is just going to the

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Speaker 1: science and seeing how credible it is and seeing how

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Speaker 1: long the theory has been around, how much you know,

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Speaker 1: validity and reliability you know, comes with whatever assessment you're

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Speaker 1: you're taking. And the thing that I love about attachment

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Speaker 1: theory is that it's been around since nineteen fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: and so far nobody's been able to falsify that theory,

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Speaker 1: and so we have so much evidence that has built

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Speaker 1: since that time time that attachment style is very predictive

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Speaker 1: of people's behavior inside of relationships. And so when we're

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Speaker 1: taking an assessment or where we're putting a label on something,

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Speaker 1: my first instinct is to just go, Okay, well, what's

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Speaker 1: the scientific evidence behind it?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Is this something that somebody just kind of like made

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Speaker 1: up and it sounded good and it was clickbait on

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Speaker 1: the internet, or is this something that has validity to it.

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Speaker 1: And so we do have a lot of really great

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Speaker 1: measurements out there for things like personality and attachment, and

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Speaker 1: differentiating between those things I think as a lay person

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Speaker 1: is hard because attachment really functions at the level of behavior,

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Speaker 1: whereas personality is more ingrained into who you are. And

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Speaker 1: so we have, you know, somebody who has say attachment

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Speaker 1: wounds that's triggered by a lot of their external environment,

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Speaker 1: whereas personality characteristics are inherent to the person and might

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Speaker 1: be displayed across different situations, right where attachment's really just

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Speaker 1: going to show up inside of the romantic relationships. So

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Speaker 1: I think for everybody out there on social media, you're

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Speaker 1: definitely getting hit with so many things at once, and

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Speaker 1: it is hard to differentiate between, you know, what's really

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Speaker 1: valid and what's just kind of maybe some kind of

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Speaker 1: something that's going around TikTok right now, that's that's popular.

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Speaker 2: Well, it makes sense that you are saying a personality

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Speaker 2: test could talk about where you're gonna be like in business,

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Speaker 2: or what you're going to be like in friendships or

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Speaker 2: different situation, or if you go away on a reality

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Speaker 2: show or something, what you're going to be like in

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Speaker 2: that group. But an attachment style is going to present

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Speaker 2: itself based on intimacy and communication and connectivity. So you're

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Speaker 2: going to see that arise there. That's that's definitely interesting,

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Speaker 2: and so how much you know there's the one that

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Speaker 2: it seems like you talk about the most is dismissive

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Speaker 2: avoidant because it seems to be a problematic one that

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Speaker 2: people are bumping up against. And to back this up,

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Speaker 2: years ago, it was actually Cia this musical artist who

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Speaker 2: brought up attachment theory to me, and I didn't even

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Speaker 2: know what she was talking about. And I understood it

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Speaker 2: to be the way you attached with your parents, and

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Speaker 2: it could be as young as being a toddler, but

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Speaker 2: it could be older based, and it doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: mean you had a dysfunctional childhood by most people's standards.

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Speaker 2: You could have a life like mine, which is dysfunctional

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Speaker 2: by everyone's standards. But you could be a person where

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Speaker 2: your parents were together for fifty years, but they're very

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Speaker 2: cold and there was no feeling and they never really

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Speaker 2: gave you any kind of love, and you felt like

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Speaker 2: you had to sort of there were conditions to everything,

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Speaker 2: and so that can sort of translate into modern day.

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Speaker 2: There could be many different shapes and sizes to this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, you hit the nail on the head completely.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the clients that I have, honestly don't

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Speaker 1: recognize their own attachment trauma, so especially dismissive avoidance. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the neglect that they experience looked very benevolent.

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Speaker 1: So it might have been like a mom being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're fine, calm down, you don't.

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Speaker 3: Need to be so upset.

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Speaker 1: You know that mom was very well meaning to just

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Speaker 1: try to gain some emotional control with her child, but

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Speaker 1: essentially she's also passing along the message, hey, your emotions

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Speaker 1: are not welcome here, and the display of emotions when

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Speaker 1: you have big emotion inside of you.

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Speaker 3: Isn't like a good thing to do.

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Speaker 1: So when that's repeated over and over and over again

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Speaker 1: in those small benign or benevolent looking ways, it can

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Speaker 1: cause someone to suppress emotion over time and to really

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Speaker 1: internalize things and to cope with things within themselves or

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Speaker 1: even dissociate from things, which is really what happens with

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Speaker 1: the dismissive avoidant. They suppress all of their emotions, and

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Speaker 1: because they're not in touch with their own emotional experience,

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Speaker 1: they get very overwhelmed by other people's emotional experiences, which

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Speaker 1: is a real block to intimacy.

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Speaker 2: I think what you're saying is that someone is just trained.

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Speaker 2: It's like a dog that's trained to do the same

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Speaker 2: thing every time, and it's very hard to untrain a dog.

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Speaker 2: So this is a person who's trained that there's a

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Speaker 2: siren that goes off when intimacy or connectivity happens, and

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Speaker 2: they literally dismiss and avoid where It might seem good

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Speaker 2: in the beginning because there are no stakes, but as

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Speaker 2: the stakes get higher, they dismiss and avoid. And you

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Speaker 2: talk about that a lot because that is very difficult

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Speaker 2: to intervene in and retrain. And so what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: You just give that dog back to the breeder? Like,

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Speaker 2: how do you Because I've been in relationships with people

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Speaker 2: like this and you kind of do want to give

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Speaker 2: that dog back to the breeder, But what do you

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Speaker 2: say to that person, like that poor person who can

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Speaker 2: help themselves?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the DA is just it's they're so hard because

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Speaker 1: their major wound is around effectiveness, which is essentially brought

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Speaker 1: up by criticism or even just perceived criticism. They don't

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Speaker 1: actually have to be being criticized, they just have to

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Speaker 1: perceive that they're being criticized. And so if you come

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Speaker 1: to them and you're like, hey, I think you have

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Speaker 1: this dismissive avoidant attachment, immediately they're going to feel defective, criticized,

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Speaker 1: and that is attached to so much internal shame, and

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Speaker 1: then they go into their suppression and their avoidance right

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Speaker 1: to cope with that internal shame. So they're not going

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Speaker 1: to age with you, and those kinds of conversations around

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Speaker 1: personal growth and development. For them, that's insanely triggering, and

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Speaker 1: then they use their old tactics of just suppressing and avoiding,

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Speaker 1: and so it's hard to actually even engage them in

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Speaker 1: conversations about hey, I think we you know, you might

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Speaker 1: benefit from understanding this about yourself, or that our relationship

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Speaker 1: could benefit from you understanding this about yourselves. From what

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Speaker 1: I have experienced, the best way to be able to

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Speaker 1: talk to a dismissible avoidant about the need for them

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Speaker 1: to maybe explore emotional development is, hey, you know, I

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Speaker 1: came across this really cool science about attachment, and I

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Speaker 1: think I know what my attachment style is.

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Speaker 3: I'm interested to see if you know what it is.

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Speaker 1: And so they kind of see it as like a

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Speaker 1: little bit almost of like a game of discovery, and

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Speaker 1: that's when they go, oh, I think I'm a dismissible avoidant.

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Speaker 3: And then we usually have two roads.

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Speaker 1: We have somebody that kind of has a light bulb

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Speaker 1: moment and they go, oh, well, I really want to

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Speaker 1: be with you and so maybe this is something I

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Speaker 1: need to work on, which is usually people with more

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Speaker 1: mild dismissible avoidance. And then we have the more severe

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Speaker 1: people who are like, well, you know what I am?

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Speaker 3: I am who I am.

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Speaker 1: That's like famous tagline for the da as I am

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Speaker 1: who I am, and you can lend me like this

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Speaker 1: or not or leave.

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Speaker 2: Oh I've heard the middle. I haven't heard that. I've

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Speaker 2: heard the well, I've heard the middle, because they go

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Speaker 2: highs and lows. These people go low and then they

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Speaker 2: think they can change it. But the next day it's

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Speaker 2: a new day and that's over. And I've also I

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Speaker 2: think this is the if this was a sign, I

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Speaker 2: would call this the biggest gas lighting sign. This is

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Speaker 2: a gas lighting sign because again they want to avoid

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Speaker 2: and if they dump something on you, you can avoid

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Speaker 2: doing it. If it's on you, they don't have to

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Speaker 2: do it. So this is literally a dog I would

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Speaker 2: give back to the breeder. But if you're married to

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Speaker 2: this person, how do you cope with this? And then

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Speaker 2: we can get into the other styles too.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I have ever seen work for dismissive

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Speaker 1: avoidance is really strong boundaries, because they have really strong

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Speaker 1: boundaries around their behavior, their time, what they're willing to give,

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Speaker 1: and so inherently they might push back against it, and

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Speaker 1: on the surface they're like Ooh, I'm not getting my way.

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Speaker 1: But deep down at that subconscious level, which is really

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Speaker 1: driving the ship, they're like, man, I respect that, right,

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Speaker 1: like I respect people who can say no, I'm not

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Speaker 1: giving that or I'm not doing that right. So they

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Speaker 1: kind of view people who self abandon and who are

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Speaker 1: a needy as weak. Yes. And so when you hold

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Speaker 1: a really strong boundary with the DA and they realize

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Speaker 1: I don't get access to this person unless I give

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Speaker 1: a B and C or meet their needs, that sense

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Speaker 1: of loss can be what causes them to stop suppressing

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Speaker 1: so much, because the pain of the loss can't be

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Speaker 1: suppressed to the degree that they need it to be

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Speaker 1: in order for them to sort of move on and

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Speaker 1: get over it. So if they really love somebody and

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Speaker 1: that person throws up some really strong boundaries, oftentimes that

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Speaker 1: is what it takes for them to come out of

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Speaker 1: their avoidance, start being able to access the feelings that

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Speaker 1: they have for their partner, and make some decisions that

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Speaker 1: they're going to honor the boundaries of their partner and

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Speaker 1: making some strides towards change.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the other styles I mine. Is

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Speaker 2: is there an anxious avoidant? What is the anxious anxiousness.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of terms that have been used

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Speaker 1: for what moderns fearful avoidance. Yeah, and it's been called

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Speaker 1: in the past anxious avoidance or disorganized attachment. So those

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Speaker 1: people have both an anxious side to their attachment and

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Speaker 1: an avoidance side to their attachment. Yes, me, odd's what

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Speaker 1: I was too, And you know I have. I've worked

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Speaker 1: really obviously, worked really hard on it, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it never completely goes away. It's more of a learning

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Speaker 1: to be aware, to catch, to correct, to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you're sort of always on top of it. There's

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Speaker 1: no like triggers completely going away for the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life. There are going to always be those trigger

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Speaker 1: moments and you have to be able to learn to

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Speaker 1: identify and cope with them. But for fearful avoidance, they

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Speaker 1: really have wounds around betrayal because there was some dysfunction

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Speaker 1: in their childhood. They usually had one or more parents

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Speaker 1: that had enough problems going on where they looked at

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Speaker 1: their parent and they were like, yeah, you can't love

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Speaker 1: me in a way that feels good to me, Like

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Speaker 1: you have X, y Z other problems issues deficits going on.

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Speaker 1: So we usually see this in parents that maybe have

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Speaker 1: a substance abuse disorder, or parents that have a mental illness,

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Speaker 1: or parents that you know, go through a really awful

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Speaker 1: divorce when their child is younger, or you know, something

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Speaker 1: of that effect. We have parents that are highly consumed

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Speaker 1: with some other issue that's causing them to behave in

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Speaker 1: an emotionally dysfunctional way, and the child witnesses that, even

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Speaker 1: if it's not directed towards the child, oftentimes they're witnessing

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Speaker 1: it in the marital relationship of their parents, and so

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Speaker 1: they really imprint this idea that love is unsafe, love

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Speaker 1: is hurtful, people will betray you if you get close

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Speaker 1: to them, and so ultimately they sort of develop this

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Speaker 1: very disorganized strategy of trying to get intimacy where their

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Speaker 1: need for connection is really strong, but it's always sort

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Speaker 1: of competing with their desire to avoiding.

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Speaker 2: Which one is that that's anxious attached.

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Speaker 1: That's the fearful avoidance, that's like the modern term for it.

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Speaker 1: But what about the disorganized one?

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Speaker 3: So that's the same.

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Speaker 1: So there's oh, fear several different terms attached to it

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Speaker 1: over the years, and I think the most probably the

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Speaker 1: most up to date term is fearful avoidance, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of peop use those older terms and so it

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Speaker 1: can get confusing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so fearful avoidant. So for me, it's sort of

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Speaker 2: like a zero sum game. So I'm like in and

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Speaker 2: I'm connected, but if I sense any sort of danger,

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Speaker 2: I'm fully out. Yeah, that's sort of it. I feel

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Speaker 2: safe until I don't, and that's like not a gray

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Speaker 2: and the healthiest way is But that's actually you can

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Speaker 2: intervene in that because I've gotten to a point over

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Speaker 2: Just like learning, there are things that dating people on

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Speaker 2: here have told or psychologists have told that you learn

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Speaker 2: that you can like mix into the recipes. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: there are a couple of things that I believe and

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Speaker 2: have learned. So one is that men are equally as

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Speaker 2: insecure as us, and I think that women don't really

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Speaker 2: believe that. So if you believe that a man is

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Speaker 2: equally as insecure, you'll then go respond to something or

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Speaker 2: come reach out to someone that you normally wouldn't, thinking

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Speaker 2: that there has to be some version of it, Like

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Speaker 2: they reach out, you reach out back, they reach out,

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Speaker 2: you reach out back. You do a little extra because

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Speaker 2: you're someone said to you that they're just as insecure.

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Speaker 2: And I said on a previous podcast that you know,

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Speaker 2: it's been a man's world for so long, for generations,

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Speaker 2: that it's not going to be a crash diet of

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Speaker 2: us all of a sudden, just like believing that it's

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Speaker 2: both a man and a woman's world, even though we

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Speaker 2: see proof of that. So the dynamic comes up in dating,

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Speaker 2: not even about fearful avoidant or any of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: just in normal dating every day we believe that the

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Speaker 2: men are holding the cards, short of like boobs and

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Speaker 2: like you know, holding out for them, Like that's just

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Speaker 2: sort of basic. I just mean, like we believe that

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Speaker 2: men are holding the cards. So therefore, even if a

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Speaker 2: man is not that attractive, we believe we should give

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Speaker 2: them a cookie for doing something so basic because we

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Speaker 2: are not we don't have an equilibrium with that. So therefore,

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Speaker 2: if someone doesn't respond to you, you want to basically

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Speaker 2: say in some subtle way, fuck off, like not responding

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Speaker 2: like you'd have respond I'm insecure, I'm going to go retreat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think there's a real dynamic where in

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Speaker 1: this culture too, we kind of view men as being

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Speaker 1: like the ones that have all the power, and that

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Speaker 1: have the power to destroy their relationship as well. Right so,

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Speaker 1: because they do hold all the cards. And I think

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Speaker 1: there is some truth to that, because if more men

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Speaker 1: tend to be dismissive avoidant and dismissive avoidance act as

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Speaker 1: dictators and relationships, they do. They dictate when you talk,

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Speaker 1: how much you talk, what you talk about, what the

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Speaker 1: intimacy is, you know, how much quality time you have.

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Speaker 1: They dictate all of it in a relationship. And eighty

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Speaker 1: five percent of dismissive avoidance are men, right so, and

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Speaker 1: a man.

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Speaker 2: A dismissive avoidant with money is a lethal combination because

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Speaker 2: I had.

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Speaker 1: It because a very well off dismissive avoidance, and it

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Speaker 1: was a nightmare because they they because he who makes

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Speaker 1: the goal makes the rules.

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Speaker 2: And this is why I tell women to begin with,

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Speaker 2: just to make money work, you put it in a

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Speaker 2: hole and not even use it, but you have it there,

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Speaker 2: and you know you have it there because it affects emotion.

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Speaker 2: So a man who's a dismissive avoidant who has money

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Speaker 2: is he's running the program. He who makes the gold

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Speaker 2: makes the rules. And then you are just abiding by

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Speaker 2: feeling powerless emotionally and financially but he then doesn't respect

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Speaker 2: that you neither have money nor control. So it's a

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Speaker 2: very strange Goldilocks imbalance.

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Speaker 1: It is, you're very right, and so we have somebody

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Speaker 1: who's acting as an emotional dictator and then who can

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Speaker 1: act as a kind of a financial dictator as well.

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Speaker 1: And I have had clients who are married to these

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Speaker 1: people and you know, they maybe they've been a stay

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Speaker 1: at home mom for fifteen years, right, But then they

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Speaker 1: discover then they're in this like loveless marriage where they

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Speaker 1: get absolutely nothing back. And they got to go with

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Speaker 1: the program, right, and they got to go with the program.

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Speaker 1: And then as soon as they push back and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: this isn't working for me. I mean, the dismissive avoidance

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Speaker 1: is going to dismiss an avoid and they've had years

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Speaker 1: and years and years of that, they get fed up.

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Speaker 1: They try to go get a divorce and then I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you how that process works.

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Speaker 1: If you don't have any money, you can't get anywhere, right,

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Speaker 1: And so then they they're really scared of losing custody

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Speaker 1: of their kids.

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Speaker 3: They're really scared.

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Speaker 2: The man has control now emotionally and financially.

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Speaker 1: You know, because the family court system is all about

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Speaker 1: who can outspend you, know, who can you can keep

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Speaker 1: it going for literally ever I've been through fugual Well.

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Speaker 2: They can emotionally outspend you.

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Speaker 1: Also, absolutely they can wear you down completely with their

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Speaker 1: inability to compromise, with their inability to see what's in

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Speaker 1: the really truly the best interest of both parties in

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Speaker 1: the situation. It really dismissible avoidance, thrive on control, and

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Speaker 1: that comes from and it's not in the same way

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Speaker 1: a narcissist does. It's definitely different from narcissism. So I

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Speaker 1: always try to tell people this isn't das aren't necessarily narcissists.

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Speaker 3: They can be, but not all das are narcissists.

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Speaker 1: Many are very deeply insecure, deeply insecure, and and their

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Speaker 1: insecurity though is not only unrecognized by them, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: recognized by most of society. What they look like on

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Speaker 1: the outside are very stoic people, people that really have

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Speaker 1: their stuff together, people operate based on logic and you know,

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Speaker 1: have all of theirs in a row.

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Speaker 3: And that is true of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, most of the DA's that I encounter are

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Speaker 1: very successful people. And then they come to me, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, I've been successful in every ever, every area

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Speaker 1: of my life except with my wife, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: And those are then amenable to change.

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Speaker 1: But in situations where you know, a woman has been

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Speaker 1: through this for fifteen twenty years and she's tired of

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Speaker 1: living in a loveless marriage and she wants to get

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Speaker 1: out their deep desire to have control, which comes from

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Speaker 1: being pushed into hyper independence too soon for their development,

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Speaker 1: where they had to have control in order to survive

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Speaker 1: because they were tasked with doing things developmentally that they

401
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: weren't ready for as children. It makes them hyper control

402
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: their environment and they almost have like the spirit of rebellion,

403
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Speaker 1: which is if you push for something, they almost push

404
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Speaker 1: back harder, like no, I'm not doing that right. So

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Speaker 1: they're not the compromise. They're not good at compromising. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of a my way or the high way type

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Speaker 1: of mentality, and obviously that can be really detrimental when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to have reciprocity in a relationship.

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Speaker 2: It's the most common female attachment style.

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, it's kind of it's kind

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Speaker 1: of split. Now I have what in my practice it's

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Speaker 1: called selection bias. Feet fearful avoidance have the most pain,

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Speaker 1: so they're the most likely to get help. Right, So

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're the more pain you're in, the

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Speaker 1: more likely you are to reach out for help. So

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Speaker 1: I would say the most common attachment style I see

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Speaker 1: is fearful avoidance. But I know we also have a

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Speaker 1: lot of anxious preoccupied women too. They don't have that

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Speaker 1: avoidance side. They only stay anxious, and no matter kind

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Speaker 1: of what happens in the relationship, they continue to try

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Speaker 1: to make it work. Whereas the fearful avoidance is like, well,

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Speaker 1: as soon as you hurt me, I'm going to pull back,

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Speaker 1: and I may exactly in right, I may. The fearful

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Speaker 1: avoid it might decide to jump out of avoidance and

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Speaker 1: back into anxiety and establish connection, and they can do

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Speaker 1: a push pull. The anxious preoccupied is sort of always

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Speaker 1: pushing for the connection no matter what.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of like, I'll.

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Speaker 2: Takes more insecure, it's more desperate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just don't leave me.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Okay. And that's a lethal combination with the dismissive avoiding,

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Speaker 2: because they're gonna run and they're gonna be yelled or

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Speaker 2: just dorm at you. Let's talk about the dating, because

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Speaker 2: it's a dating podcast, so your dating, you go out.

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Speaker 2: And I think that people, I think that women really

436
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 2: believe things that men are saying in the moment, whether

437
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: it's about sex, whether it's about money, whether it's about commitment,

438
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 2: and it's a stranger. And I think Barbie Adler, who's

439
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: a matchmaker on here, really was the one who. I

440
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: think it was her who basically who basically was like,

441
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 2: this person is a stranger. Yeah, and I just and

442
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: then you probably touch on love bombing and all this

443
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 2: different stuff, like there's someone I met recently who looked

444
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,239
Speaker 2: at me and was like, oh my god, and like

445
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 2: just had a feeling about me. And that can happen.

446
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: You can feel like you had an instant connection. And

447
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: then they started to operate in the pre dating phase.

448
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: Hadn't even been on a proper day, just met them

449
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: a couple of times. You're vibing with them, there's an

450
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: energetic connection where like it's a strong connection, so you're

451
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: allowing them to push it a little further with you

452
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: in like fantasy like oh we'll do this one day,

453
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: we'll do this, we could start a business together, we

454
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: could live near each other. Where do you live? I

455
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: live there too, That's what I want to And like

456
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: now you're like in love with so five minutes in.

457
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 2: But like, we have to recalibrate ourselves. It's our responsibility

458
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 2: just because the guy says, oh your eyes and that's

459
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: exactly what I want. You're what I want. You have

460
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: to be rational, insane and no, this is a stranger.

461
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 2: So it doesn't matter that they told you they want

462
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 2: to marry you on the first date. Like every rom

463
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: com movie with Ashton Kutcher and Cameron Diaz, it's not

464
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 2: realistic and it doesn't make sense. So and I hear

465
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: women all the time he said this, he said that,

466
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: or even three dates he said this, he said that,

467
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 2: And like they're then mad at the guy. So you

468
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: have to recalibrate yourself with a stranger.

469
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean our brain chemicals are definitely going

470
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: to lie to us in the beginning. They're going to

471
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: lie to us, and they are going to give us

472
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: feelings of euphoria and happiness and a lot of what

473
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: ends up happening, especially for fearful avoidance.

474
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: This is a really fa thing.

475
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: Is you know, emotions are made up of the feelings

476
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: that we have in our body, plus the story around

477
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: what's happening. That's actually what emotion is broken down into,

478
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: So what we feel inside of our body, plus like

479
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: our like story or understanding of what's occurring.

480
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: Well, but none of those irrational too. Describing two fantasy things.

481
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: Then there's one which is like the boring logic and

482
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 2: intellectual knowledge you are discussing like you're a libido and

483
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: like is it your it or you're super ego like

484
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 2: those things that are coming in and like excited on

485
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: two different.

486
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: Ends, right, yeah, definitely the definitely the primal like energy

487
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: part of us, I think is really activated in the

488
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: early dating relationship. And you know, so what ends up

489
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: happening is people experience an emotion that is really fear

490
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,239
Speaker 1: and associated with red flags like love bombing. Right, Like

491
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: love bombing should be a recognizable red flag, but it's

492
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 1: not because it provokes feelings in the body that mimic excitement.

493
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: It's really fear. Fear and excitement have the same feeling.

494
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: But the story that you're telling yourself helps you determine

495
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: what emotion this is. And so the story is like, oh,

496
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: new partner, they're so attractive, like they're doing all these

497
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: great things.

498
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 3: They're you know, they're what I want. I really want to.

499
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: Connection and this seems so amazing, and maybe compatibility details

500
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: are kind of there. It looks good on paper, but

501
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: nobody shows you who they really are. For the first

502
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 1: six months of a relationship. Everybody's trying to put their

503
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: best fit forward.

504
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 2: Well, that's amazing, you're saying, first six months, that's being generous. Wow,