1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Taglas. Hey, Julie, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: have you ever had a computer virus? And and and 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: have you ever wanted to keep it and raise it 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: that I haven't got it right next to me? Actually, 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's so sweet. Yeah. You really go to 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: love them after a while. Yeah, yeah, I mean their 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: appetite is voracious. Yeah, and occasionally get out of hand 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: and they throw a lot of like naked photos up 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: on your desktop. But you know that's just that's they're 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: just acting out. They just want attention, you know exactly. 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: They're just I'm they're being creative, and you just have 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: to say, you go forward and in one day you'll 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: be independent and you won't be so nuts and get 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: me fired exactly. Yeah. Of course, there always comes at 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: time where you're trying to explain your pet virus to 18 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: somebody and they're like, whoa that we can't have a 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: pet computer virus. That's not even alive, that's not a thing, 20 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: that's not a creature. And you say, what what do 21 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: you mean? This? This is my companion, right yeah. Um, 22 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: and it's usually like the I t people that are like, 23 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: it's totally not alive. Let me take it away, let 24 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: me let me squash it like a bug right here 25 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: in front of you. And you're like, whoa nor get 26 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: the way it is right right. It's just I can't 27 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: tell you how many jobs I've lost as a results 28 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: of that. But someone's got someone out there has to 29 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: understand how computer visors might be alive. I don't know. Yes, 30 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: it's actually a very interesting area of study. Thus the 31 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: reason that we're going to talk about it for an 32 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: entire podcast, um um, because you you look at this thing, uh, 33 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's doing a lot of tasks and 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: it's carrying out a lot of functions that when you 35 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: when you look at some of the various criteria for life, 36 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: it kind of adds up it kind of it kind 37 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: of can you can make a compelling case exactly? I mean, 38 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: it's not an accident that it's called a virus, right, 39 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: because if you look at a biological virus, it's basically 40 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: a germ that can only replicate itself inside living cells 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: of organisms. Right, So there's certainly uh similarities with a 42 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: computer virus which spreads from one computer to another computer 43 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: using executable code. Right like, so in my mind, this 44 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: is very much like an S A T question, Like 45 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: viruses to living cells as malicious code is to executable 46 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: files like boom, there it is, right yeah, And just 47 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: to take everyone back, the word virus itself is from 48 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: the Latin for poison, so yeah, just throw that in there. 49 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: But so so, yeah, let's look at normal viruses organic 50 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: viruses first, um, biological viral infections. These are spread by 51 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: a virus which is a small shell containing a containing 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: genetic material, and it injects its contents into a larger 53 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: organism cell. Then the cell is basically converted into a 54 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: biological factory, right like, it's just pushing all its cells 55 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: out right right and injected its DNA and it's trying 56 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: to explode outward. Yeah, and it's just you know, it's 57 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: carrying off the basic function of all life, you know, replicate, replicate. 58 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, and then that's what you're saying is basically 59 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: the key word is that it wants to replicate, it 60 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: wants to reproduce. It must go forward. And so then 61 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: of course you've got the computer code, which you know, um, 62 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: it is self replicating, and before computers were outfitted with modems, 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: viruses were pretty rare. So that's why we are now 64 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: so very aware of it because it can spread through 65 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: a network, um the internets or old school style floppy disk. 66 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it's kind of interesting when you compare 67 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: it to UM, to the rise of organic viruses and 68 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: human communities. UM. You know, at one point when when 69 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: humans were saying living out on their own, uh, they 70 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: were exposed to a certain number of viruses within these communities. 71 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: Then they start raising animals, domesticating animals they were living 72 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: in close proximity. Then to animals with other various illnesses 73 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: and viruses that can potentially be picked up by humans 74 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: and adapt for the for human hosts. And then you 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: have cities coming together, and then suddenly you have a 76 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: large number of people living in UM in close proximity 77 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: to one another with their animals, and it just ups 78 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: the anti even more. So you can compare that to 79 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: the just the the continuing evolution and inter connectivity of 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: our our our internet and our our our communications network. 81 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: So it's just as as we grow and grow more 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: and more con connected than the potential for viruses to 83 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: just spread like wildfire becomes admits, which actually has like 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: crazy interesting implications for us. Um if you consider that 85 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: as a model, right, because right now we're like, oh yeah, 86 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: computer viruses, they are paining so on and so forth. 87 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: But um, but they actually down the road might have 88 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: some ramifications on how we live and the sort of 89 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: technology we use. But but first, just to get back 90 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: to that question about whether or not they're alive, because 91 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: I really do think this is central to to what 92 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Stephen Hawking actually said that um come 93 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: viruses fit standard definitions of living systems even though they 94 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: have no metabolism of their own. So the computer virus 95 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: exploits the metabolism of the host computer in effects, and 96 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: it becomes a parasite. Uh. And to quote him, this 97 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: parasitic existence is a key characteristic of biological viruses, as 98 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: is its ability to replicate only inside the cells of 99 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: a living host. So there you have it, Stephen Hawking saying, Hey, look, 100 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is alive so much, but I'm 101 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: saying that you know, if you if you look at 102 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: a biological virus, which is you know, questionable whether or 103 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: not it's alive. Yeah, there's so much that's that they 104 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: have in common here. Yeah. Yeah, organic viruses are are 105 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: kind of a gray area at times for some people. Um. 106 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: For starters, viruses lack most of the internal structure and 107 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: machinery which characterizes many definitions of life. And that's the 108 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: thing that you can find various definitions of life and 109 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: you can sort of pick and choose the one that 110 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: best um fits your you know whatever you're trying to argue, 111 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: Like you want to make an argument that a flame 112 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: is a lie, then you can sort of find the 113 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: right list and skew it. And uh, it's kind of 114 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: an interesting thought thought project. What is it to be alive? Yeah? Um, 115 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: and it's great if you're a firebug too, because you 116 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: can be like like my children, I must raise them 117 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: um at the factory across the street. But that's a 118 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: whole paramaniac discussion. Well that's that's another podcast. But yeah, 119 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: they like many of the the inner machinery. UM that 120 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: that that is often associated with life, the biosynthetic machinery 121 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: that is necessary for reproduction. Uh. In in order for 122 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: a virus to replicate, it must again infect that host cell. Right, 123 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: if you look at the counterpoint by Richard Dawkins, who says, Okay, yes, 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: I agree with Stephen talking to the point that it's 125 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: it's uh if it's system definition of system of life. However, 126 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: both um bacterial virus and computer virus, they what they 127 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: both lack is some sort of monicum of independence or 128 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: independence thoughts. So I think for for him, you know, 129 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: it's the niggle in question of what is it to 130 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: be alive? And is the process that you're independent and autonomous? 131 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: And again this is a gray area because I mean, 132 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: you've got computer viruses and biological viruses mutating on their 133 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: own um and taking over their hosts. And yes, it's 134 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: the same sort of code that's replicated over and over again, 135 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: but there are certain things that are happening to make 136 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: this organism or this code actually act independently in some circumstances. 137 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: Of course, this is a if and then proposition, right, 138 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: particularly for for algorithm in a computer virus. And and 139 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: again that code we're talking about typically two four thousand 140 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: bytes based on the source I was looking at UM 141 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: that I don't know if that's that may have swollen 142 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: in recent years, but but they're not big, You're not 143 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: There's not like a gig computer virus out there. UM. 144 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: That would be more of it, like the host as 145 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: opposed to the parasite. UM. I I really enjoyed reading 146 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: um about about some of this from an article by 147 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: Eugene Spafford, a k A staff or I hope the staff. Yeah, huge, 148 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: huge staff at Purdue University. Uh. And he uh he 149 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: he has an interesting essay UH that's available online if 150 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: you search for it where he lays out like a 151 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: number of different criteria for life, including self reproduction, metabolism 152 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: which we just discussed, functional interactions with environment, interdependence of parts, 153 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 1: stability under changes in the environment, evolution and growth or expansion. 154 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: So and just just to go through a few of 155 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: these real quick that except for metabolism, which we already discussed. UM. First, 156 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: you have functional interactions with the viruses environment. Viruses perform 157 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: examinations of their host environments as part as their activities. 158 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: You have interdependence of virus parts. Uh. And living organisms 159 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: cannot be divided generally without destroying them, or they can 160 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: only be divided to a point. You know, It's like 161 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: you can you may be able to cut the limb 162 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: off of a starfish and have to starfish but you 163 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: can't put it in the food process there and expect 164 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: miraculous things to happen, you know, unless you have a 165 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: great recipe. But the same is true of computer viruses. 166 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: You take that that code and you break it up. 167 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: You just have some segments of code. Um virus stability 168 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: under changes. Computer viruses run on different machines, you know, 169 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: So you put it out there and uh and it 170 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: and it will be you know, designed to tackle like 171 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: this version of Windows. In this version of Windows um 172 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: uh and uh. Many of these are able to also 173 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: compromise and in some cases defeat anti virus and copy 174 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: protection mechanisms. So they're out there surviving in different environments, 175 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: dealing with different defense systems or predators. However you want 176 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: to frame them. And I think that really interesting thing 177 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: about that is that they can assess their environment and 178 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: they can say this is a dangerous environment for me, 179 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: How am I supposed to react to this? Or this 180 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: is um, this environment is great for me, Yeah, this 181 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: environment is great. Let's let's uh, let me do my 182 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: thing here. Yeah, let me buy a couch and an 183 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: automan and stick it in here and live here for 184 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: a while. This presentation is brought to you by Intel 185 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: sponsors of tomorrow. And of course the most obvious one 186 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: is uh that the ability to to reproduce, you know, 187 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: to self reproduction. The code that defines the virus is 188 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: a template and used by the virus to replicate itself. 189 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: And it's very similar to DNA molecules um in organic life. 190 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: So um, you can again, you can make a compelling argument. 191 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: But but the staff, if I'm allot to calling that, 192 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: yeah huge, makes another interesting analogy that I love, and 193 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: that's the one of the Xerox machine. All right. He 194 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: points out that that even though a computer virus boasts 195 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: a partially automated ability to reproduce, the virus itself is 196 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: not the agent of reproduction. Okay, the computer is this 197 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: and and the example of these Zerox machine is this. Um, 198 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: if viruses are alive, then the blueprints or a Xerox 199 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: machine are alive, because if an outside party takes those blueprints, 200 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: they can build a Xerox machine, and then they can 201 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: slide the blueprints through the Xerox machine and make a 202 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: copy but the blue but but then can you look 203 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: at the blueprints and say, this blueprint can make a 204 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: copy of itself because it contains the information to make 205 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: a machine that can be used to make a copy 206 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: of itself, right, because outside of it, it's it's a mission, 207 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: so to speak, it can't think independently, right, which is 208 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: what it normally all boils down to. Right. But I still, 209 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I get totally get that. But then I 210 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: think about something like stuck snet and how incredibly complex 211 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: that viruses. And again, yes, it's got a certain mission 212 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,479 Speaker 1: and it's not going to deviate outside of the parameters 213 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: of um the code that have been written. But to me, 214 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: it's it's a maybe just ushers in a new era 215 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: of what we think of as viruses, and maybe we 216 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: should discuss stexnet just a little bit um. But this, 217 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: of course is the um worm computer virus that spies 218 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: on and reprograms industrial systems. So basically it can futs 219 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: with the programmable logic controller and then hide those changes. 220 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: So and then this of course happened in Iran and 221 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: on the nuclear facility there. They had a bunch of 222 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: things going wrong, and eventually they think it was discovered 223 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: that this specific virus was going in and actually changing 224 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: the I believe it was the speed of some of 225 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: the rotors so it was messing up the machinery and 226 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: basically it was slowing down their ability to enrich uranium. Okay, 227 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: so what does that mean to us? I mean that that, 228 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: first of all, that's I guess what you would call 229 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: uh computer virus warfare in a sense, right, I mean, 230 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: obviously someone created this really sophisticated virus, goes in and 231 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: yah and messes with things, throws a wrench into the machinery, 232 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: but in the in in a more subtle way, right right. 233 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: And let me also back up to and say that 234 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: the reason they think that this um was meant specifically 235 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: for this facility is because if you look at the 236 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: instances of infection of this virus, six of them occurred 237 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: in Iran, and it is tarted towards these these systems. UM. 238 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: But I think the problem is is that stex net 239 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: could be used as a blueprint to sabotage machines that 240 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: are critical to US power plants, electrical grids, and other infrastructures. 241 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: So that's why it's kind of a scary virus. It's 242 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: not just a hey here's some here's a nikky picture 243 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, popping up. Yeah, it's it compares it's very 244 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: comparable to the the the use of biological and chemical happens. 245 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: You create something that is you know, deployable against your enemy. 246 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: You've you well with biological and chemical you do create 247 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: something that can be used against yourself. And uh and 248 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: uh and and certainly many of these viruses there's not 249 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: a whole lot of adaptation and an alteration that would 250 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: have to take place for it to be you know, 251 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: a weapon that could be used against U S systems 252 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: and an infrastructure. So yeah, and actually we haven't heard 253 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: a whole lot of biological warfare lately. I think that 254 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: was largely a big, you know, post not eleven concern, 255 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: although I think it's a huge concern still. Um. But 256 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: yet to use your analogy, I mean, you've got the 257 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: think about the small pox infected blankets. Um. Now, okay, 258 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: that was something that was crushing um and it was 259 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: awful and it spread like rapid fire. But now we've 260 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: mapped the genome, we have the ability in theory to 261 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: actually create a biological virus that could wipe out certain 262 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,119 Speaker 1: ethnicities we wanted to. So again, here's here's the parallels 263 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: between them. That's that's um at the very core, sort 264 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: of a simple structure, but the way that it can 265 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: be deployed is really complex and sophisticated. Oh and just 266 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: to just to throw it back to word origins and 267 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: terminology origins, the term computer virus that first showed up 268 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: in a science fiction novel two when Harley was won 269 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: by David Gerald j that's g E R R O 270 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: L D. And uh. The actual the first actual computer 271 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: virus to hit the scene didn't come around until so yeah, 272 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: and again it didn't. It hasn't really become so much 273 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: of a problem until and on the last decade or 274 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: so when people were regularly using modems. So before that 275 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: you'd have to spread it by floppy disk, right, Yeah, 276 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: Like I can't imagine. I mean, I haven't looked up 277 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: the headlines and done the research, but I can't imagine 278 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: computer viruses made you know, top headlines much back in 279 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: the old days. But nowadays it's really, you know, not 280 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: that uncommon. Particularly the HAAD virus comes around, it's gonna 281 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: it's going to show up, yeah, you know, in Google 282 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: and in various ways right outware malware that's what they 283 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: call in the street. Um, But I mean, it really 284 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: is interesting to again to look at those sort of 285 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: similarities between biological warfare and computer virus warfare and what 286 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: that points to in the future. Yeah, and then also 287 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: the you know, our laptops are our gadgets. They become 288 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: an increasingly huge part of our lives. They really become 289 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: extensions of ourselves, you know. So it's you get the 290 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: virus in a way, it's it's not you know, it's 291 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: not threatening your body, but it's threatening this device that 292 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: allows you to communicate with a vast number of people. 293 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: Like in the old days, if you caught a virus 294 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: and it kept you from talking to your mom, it 295 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: meant that it was, you know, somehow in in inhibiting 296 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: your ability to speak. But you can conceivably get a 297 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: get a virus now, and it's like, oh, I can't 298 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: you skype anymore. I can't talk to my mom until 299 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: I get a cure for this. Well, and this is 300 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: the crazy thing too. I mean, you could take this 301 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: one step further and look at the guy who uh 302 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: and sorted the r f I D chip into his hand, 303 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: Dr Mark Gasson from the University of Reading. He and 304 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: he did this on purpose. It was a proof of 305 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: concept thing. He was contaminating this r f I D 306 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: chip and then you know, putting it under his skin. Um. 307 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: And of course he was using an actually for a 308 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: purpose other than that. It was access to his building, 309 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: and it also identified himself to his cell phone or 310 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: to his modbile and then he went on like a 311 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: day a blind date with a really scheezy PC. Right. Well, yes, okay, 312 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: yes he doesn't talk about that a lot though, But 313 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: what he does talk about, um, is that because he 314 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: gave himself this virus essentially in this r f I 315 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: D chip, that he could then pass that virus onto 316 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: all the technology that associated with him. So some people 317 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: were calling him a scaremonger. You know, this is a 318 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: could happen, might happen situation, But he was basically saying, well, 319 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: look at Pacemaker's UM, look at other implants bringing him plants, 320 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: all the other technology, cochlear implants that we have available 321 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: to us. Cochlear. What's the cochlear it's an inner ear. Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah. 322 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: I was thinking of the tailbone for some reason, the 323 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: coss cossacks. I'm like, why, why would have someone have 324 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: an electronic implant on the cossacks would be kind of awesome, 325 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: like an electronic vestigial tail doesn't my vestigial tail implant. Yeah, 326 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: it kind of turns it into an antenna. Maybe. Yeah. 327 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: I guess if you had subcutaneous horns and you just 328 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, make it like sort of fresh 329 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: for you can do the tail. Cool, we're putting it 330 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, I mean why not? Um, But anyway, 331 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: that is that's the huge concern is that we could 332 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: then with all our all our sort of cyborg like 333 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: technology coming on board, be able to transfer computer viruses 334 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: to one another, which is really trippy. Yeah, and certainly, yeah, 335 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: this is the you see this idea to show up 336 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: in some science fiction, especially when you when you see 337 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: the lines blurred. Uh well a lot of science fiction. 338 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: I guess when when when the lines are become blurred 339 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: between organic life and technology technological life, and you know, 340 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: certainly you know, well I'm not even go into all 341 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: the variations, but you know, it's like you get into 342 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: a situation where where we're like entering a computer environment 343 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: or or or the human mind it's digitized, or just 344 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: just look at like any tin headlines, um um, you know, 345 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: science headlines on the net and and think to yourself, oh, 346 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: what how would how how my computer viruses mess this 347 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: innovation up? When you know, if it's something talking about 348 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: oh they're using devices to see into people's dreams or 349 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: you know or whatever, there's I know, the possibilities are endless, right, 350 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: I mean I was even thinking about the podcast that 351 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: we did about the ways that we could modify ourselves, 352 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: and we talked about the exo skeleton and how something 353 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: like that could become infected. Of course, again people would 354 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: say this is scaremongering because it hasn't happened. But you know, 355 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: there is r f I D chip and yes it 356 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't X a Cutney code, right because it 357 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: just scans. But whatever is scanning that could have some 358 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: sort of UM security problem with it and and could 359 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: be UM infected. Right, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'm 360 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: not trying to raise the hackles here. I'm not trying 361 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: to get nuts. But I think it's pretty amazing. But 362 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: the really interesting thing is it's you know, viruses that 363 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: occur naturally, that's just a product of evolution, things evolving 364 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: and filling various niches out there. Uh two do what 365 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: organic or any kind of animal needs to do. But 366 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: but but human Uh computer viruses are man made. They 367 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: are created things. So it's it's like there's something in 368 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: us that just could not resist. We we had to. 369 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: You know, conceivably, we could have this this like pure 370 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: technological world and the Internet would just be flawless. There 371 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: would be there would be no viruses, there would be 372 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: no um, you know, virus scans popping up on your computer. 373 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: But we we just we just couldn't do it. We 374 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: just can't have nice things. We have to have to 375 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: create something that can that can can mess up the 376 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: other dude's computer and potentially mess up our own or 377 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: passing on our flaws. That's what you're saying. Yeah, it's 378 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: interesting that a lot of people will say that viruses 379 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: are just sloppy code. When you come down and in 380 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: sloppy code, I guess in not protecting it um systems 381 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: from viruses. Oh so it's like saying that it wouldn't 382 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: be a problem if the systems were more Yeah, um, 383 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: but I do. I think that's really interesting that you 384 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: say that, because, Um, Susan Blackmore and someone we've talked 385 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: about before. She's a memeticist and she's also a parasychologist. 386 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: But in the skeptics camp. Does she have pink hair, blue, blue, yellow? 387 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: It depends on the day. Yeah. Yeah, she's kind of 388 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: got a wonderful rainbow of air. Because I've been looking 389 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: at our articles and then suddenly, like pictures were showing 390 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: up in Google Search, you know, the little Google image 391 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: search bar, and I'm like, whoa is that her? It 392 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: makes sense. She's she's into a lot of really cool areas. Yeah, yeah, she's. 393 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: She's a very interesting, um woman. And she actually if 394 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: you get our website, I think you'll probably see the 395 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: most recent picture of her hair. But other than her hair, um, 396 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: she's she's done some really um interesting research into this, 397 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: into memeticism, and and just to talk about this to 398 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: quick overview, a meme is basically just an idea that's 399 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: getting perpetuated, much like code or virus and um to 400 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: go back to like like l O L cat, like 401 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: any like let the internet, any of these ideas that 402 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: suddenly like everybody just starts running with it and doing 403 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: it until it becomes so annoying you don't want to 404 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: even go on the internet anymore. Exactly. She's basically she 405 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: took Richard Dawkins idea of the selfish gene basically, and 406 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: and sort of ran with and said that language and 407 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: communication is information that's copied with variation and selection. So 408 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: a mom and as an idea that's self perpetuating and 409 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: essentially it takes ideas and moves them in a viral fashion, 410 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: so that none of that is a surprise to me? 411 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: Is it to you? I mean that makes perfect sense 412 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: to me. Um. So she all says this is based 413 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: on universal Darwinism, that that algorithm that he sort of 414 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: accidentally came up with, which was you know, if you've 415 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: got variation, if you've got selection, um, if you've got replication, 416 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: which is also heredity, then you will have some sort 417 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: of um basically evolution, or you'll have design that came 418 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: out of chaos that was independent of any sort of 419 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: thought or mind behind it, which is really interesting. So 420 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: she takes this idea one step further though by saying 421 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: that we're not just these gene machines that are replicating 422 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: ourselves um and mem machines that are are replicating our 423 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: thoughts or ideas, but we're also tem or team machines, 424 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: which is technology means basically, So what she means is 425 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: that we're we are perpetuating technology and that we are 426 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: the hosts. Oh, so this gets into the whole like 427 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: what does technognology want? That it's an extension of ourselves, 428 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: and that that ultimately like we're we're facilitating the technological 429 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: evolution exactly. I mean she she goes on to say, 430 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: actually that we we think we have a choice in 431 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: the matter, that it's us who decided to perpetuate the internet, um, 432 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. So not the virus, 433 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the computer virus is not only virus, but technology itself 434 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: is potentially the virus. Yeah, exactly, exactly, So she said, 435 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: when we're basically the host and they're just writing on 436 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: our backs until they can begin self replicating themselves, and 437 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: then of course I'm sure they'll shed us. Um, but 438 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: until you've got to go to the moon first? Who 439 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: got to go to Mars first? Who got to leave 440 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: the solar system first? Machines they've been they've been working 441 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: us for decades, and she says to like, our brain 442 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: is actually evolving for them, the way that our brain 443 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: is processing information. I Mean, some people will say that 444 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: the brain is just a computer, but of course that's um, 445 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: that's that's sort of not a correct analogy. But certainly 446 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: we get to the more we live with computers, the 447 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: more we want to think the mind as a computer. 448 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: And right, it gets into that hole. And then it 449 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: was like, I think it also gets in the whole argument. 450 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: Like you know, in a previous episode we talked about 451 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: the interconnectivity between the brain and the gut and how 452 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: you are more than just a brain, you are also 453 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: this entire body. Um. But we want to apply the 454 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: computer model to it and say we are a brain 455 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: and the rest is just hardware. Right, So right, we 456 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: want to say, right we we uh, we like the 457 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: the computer model. We want to become the computer model. 458 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: And the computer model has told us this from the 459 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: get go. Well you want to become us, I think. 460 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: But it really is a very interesting argument that she makes, 461 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: and she talks about cyborg technology in the different ways 462 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: that we are trying to mesh our humanity with technology. 463 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: So there you go. Yeah, that's I mean, my mind 464 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: is blown a little just talking about it. Yeah, And 465 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: it always, of course, it leads me back to the 466 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: all roads lead to the technological singularity. Right the day 467 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: wind computers take that light speed jump become bigger than us, um. 468 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: More more confident than us and just completely skyrocket following 469 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: Morph's law and just just evolving in a rapid rate 470 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: until they're just machine God's right, leaving us in the dust. Yeah, 471 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: but potentially still loving us. A god can can love 472 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: even his or her creators, right, So, but I know, 473 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: I know, I love. I really do like your benevolent 474 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: version of it. I'm going to stick to that. It 475 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: makes me feel better. Well, we'll see or we won't see. Well, 476 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: maybe we'll see. I don't know. No, no, no, somebody 477 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: will see. What do we have on the books here? Oh? 478 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: We have some listener mail, do we not? We do? Yeah, 479 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: it's just been pointed out to me. I hadn't really 480 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: noticed that there's a there's an awesome robot noise that 481 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: happens with the podcast whenever we do listen to mail. 482 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which which sounds to me like it makes 483 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: me think of like Maximilian the Red Robots from the 484 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: Black Hole, like coming in, given us, given us the 485 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: listener mail, given us the listener male thumbs up. Yeah, 486 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: so I think it's actually setting closer to you. I 487 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: think guess where the robot left it. Let's see. Shall 488 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: we start with this one. Um, this is from John 489 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: and his subject climb was coffee beans from animals. Oh yes, uh, 490 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: this is which we discussed and um the animal junkie. 491 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: That's right, and he says on the Addicted Animal Junkies 492 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: podcast released today, you tube speak of excreted slash fecal 493 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: coffee beans, Julie said goats, and Lamb says cats do 494 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: the dirty work. It is actually palm civit cats, which 495 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: are not cats and not monkeys as some stories call them, 496 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: although another coffee is made from for mosen rock monkey vombit. 497 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: Oh wow, well that was that's the most confusing explanation 498 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: of all. I have no idea what the animal is now, yeah, 499 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: I know. And that's it's funny because I always thought 500 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: the Civic cat was a cat that was indigenous to Africa. 501 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: I could be wrong on that, but in my association 502 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: with the Civic cat is that they used the uh 503 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: anal glands um or some of the tissue or something 504 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: from it in Chanel number five. Okay, yeah, to give 505 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: it sort of the funky bass name. I suppose. Well 506 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: that's great. Yeah, so there you go. But thank you 507 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: Jones that that's we're gonna have to check into the 508 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: monkey vomits have a tough life. They're just constantly eating 509 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: coffee for us and dying for our Chanel number five, 510 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: or at least undergoing some perhaps unpleasant tinkering in their 511 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: anal glands. Yeah, it's possible. And this is from mo 512 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: on on our Facebook page and it says Kope lou 513 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: walk is made from coffee berries that have been partially 514 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: digested by wild tree cats. I think J. D. Samuel 515 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: was talking about the legend of the first discovery of coffee. 516 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: The story goes a goat herder in Ethiopia saw his 517 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: goats eat the berries and the uh started going bonkers, 518 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: so he took the beans to some monks who made 519 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: it into stew. Hooray for coffee. All right, cool, Yeah, 520 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: I thought that the goats were involved with this. Go 521 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: to the original caffeine freaks, right Coffee Flavor Earth Yeah yeah. Well. Hey, 522 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: if you want to find out more though about the 523 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: viruses and computer viruses, you should definitely come to the 524 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works website and you can put virus or 525 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: computer virus in the search bar and you will get 526 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of interesting results. We have a number of 527 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: articles that deal with these very related topics and also 528 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: through technological singularity in there. Jonathan Strickland wrote an excellent 529 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: article about that. So if you're still a little foggy 530 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: about what it is or what it what it means, uh, 531 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: that's a great article read. Remember you can always find 532 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: us on Facebook or Twitter. We are blow the Mind 533 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: on both of those, and you can always old school 534 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: drop us a line at blow the Mind at how 535 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands 536 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. To 537 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon 538 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: in the upper right corner of our homepage. The house 539 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today 540 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: on iTunes, m