1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: We're going to be the first on everything, in number 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: of deaths of coronavirus, in number of people unemployed. It's 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: really scary. 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: From futuro media, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria ino Josa. 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: Brazil recorded its first death from COVID nineteen on March seventeenth, 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: much later than places like New York City and hard 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: hit areas in Italy and Wuhan, China, where early on 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 2: the pandemic overwhelmed hospitals and health care facilities. But despite 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: the late arrival of the coronavirus, as of mid June, 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: Brazil was registering over eight hundred and fifty thousand cases, 11 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: and it had jumped to the second spot in the 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: list for the highest death toll in the world, right 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: behind the United States. Jair Borsonaru, the country's right wing 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: nationalist president, has dismissed the threat posed by the virus 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: from the very beginning. Back in early May, he was 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: asked by journalists about the rising death toll. In response, 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: again he simply answered, so, what what do you want 18 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: me to do about it. The epicenter of the virus 19 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: in Brazil is the state of South Baulo, which has 20 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: about one fourth of all cases and debts. Journalist Giselli 21 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: Regatau lives in New York City, but she's originally from 22 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: the city of South Baulo, which has been struggling to 23 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: find an effective response to the pandemic. 24 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: So what I think we're seeing in Brazil is really 25 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: the consequence of what happens when government decisions don't take 26 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: science us into account. 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: She's been following this story for US and Gezelli comes 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: back on the show today to talk about her reporting 29 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 2: and what she's uncovered. Giselli Reatau, Welcome back to Latino, USA. 30 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: Good to be back. Maria so Cizzelli. 31 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: We're speaking about Brazil, which is where you're from, and 32 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure it must have been a shock, I imagine 33 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: when you realize now that Brazil has become one of 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: the epicenters of the coronavirus. So how does this happen 35 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: to Brazil? 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's really shocking, and as I did my reporting, 37 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: I learned it is basically a combination of three factors. One, 38 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: there's a lack of testing in Brazil, which is something 39 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: other countries also had an issue with. The Second issue 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: is there is a non compliance to isolation, to shelter 41 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: in place policies, and that happens because one, many people 42 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: have to go to work in Brazil to be able 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: to feed their families. Also, many people live in crowded 44 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: houses and there's often four or six people in one room, 45 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: so it's hard to isolate. And there are many people 46 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: in Brazil who don't believe coronavirus is a serious issue. 47 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: And that gets us to the third factor. That's President 48 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: ja Bosonato. 49 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: A president at odds with his advisors and scientists over 50 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 3: COVID nineteen. 51 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: The fact that many people don't believe it's a serious issue. 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: It's in part because of him. 53 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 3: Do combat you. 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: So basically, what jaiqu Bosonato is saying here is that 55 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: the remedy to fight coronavirus. 56 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: No mile posta mylesdoon Lowski prop You. 57 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: Can't be worse than the sickness. 58 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: It sounds like the worst possible situation, lack of testing, 59 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: a basic kind of resistance to this notion of staying inside, 60 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: and then not being able to social distance because of 61 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: just reality. And then you've got a president who is 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: basically saying, maybe it's not so serious after all. But 63 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: let's start with number one. We're going to go through 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: these So the lack of testing, you know, I remember 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: here in New York City, right the epicenter, where we 66 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: over and over and over we heard about the lack 67 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: of testing, and I think a lot of people were saying, well, 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: we're you know, we're supposedly like an advanced country. How 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: come we don't have tests? So Brazil is an incredibly 70 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: advanced country. They kind of saw that this was happening, 71 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: So why is there now this lack of testing in Brazil. 72 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like in other countries, Maria, as you mentioned, 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: is not clear how that happened. But what is happening 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: is that, particularly for the first two months of the pandemic, 75 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: basically only people who were being admitted to the hospital 76 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: were being tested. I interviewed a professor in the Department 77 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: of Medicine at University of San Paulo in Hiberan Preto, 78 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: that's another city in the state of San Paulo. His 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: name is Domingo's Alvis. He's an expert on statistics and 80 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: he's been monitoring the numbers of coronavirus really closely. So 81 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: in the beginning of June, the official number of cases 82 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: of coronavirus in Brazil was more than six hundred thousand cases, 83 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: but Domingo's Alvis estimates that the real number is more 84 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: than ten times that, so more than six million people. 85 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: But as you is materius principle, fo, could you be 86 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: the million morning teal. 87 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: Basically, what he told me is that Brazil today, according 88 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: to his estimates, is the main focus of the pandemic 89 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: in the whole world. 90 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: So I just need to stop right there, because this 91 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: is a number that is extraordinary. Yes, you're saying that 92 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: you have somebody who believes, through his own kind of 93 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: research and scientific information, that the number of cases of 94 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: COVID in Brazil is closer to six million. That that 95 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: just feels like an insurmountable number. 96 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: It's really bad. And in terms of death, Domingo's always 97 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: says then the official numbers represent just sixty percent of 98 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: what he estimates are the real number of deaths in Brazil. 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: He told me Maria that Brazil has a curve on 100 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: coronavirus cases different than any other country. 101 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: From the fifth day. For instance, Blazil is the country 102 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: with the high growth rate of comfimate cases andonformate death. 103 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: I interviewed him mostli in Portuguese, but he also spoke 104 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: little English. But here he's telling me that in the 105 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: day fifty after the first case in each country, most countries' 106 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: curves were going flat or starting to go down. What 107 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: he's saying is that in Brazil after day fifty the 108 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: curve was still going up. 109 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: And is that because there really wasn't this kind of 110 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: national response closing down social distancing, et cetera. Is that why? 111 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: Yes, the lack of isolation has been a big factor 112 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: in Brazil, the lack of testing as well, because people 113 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: don't even know who's infected, right, But in terms of 114 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: the isolation problem, Maria, overall, Brazil's isolation rate, which is 115 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: something that the cities in Brazil and states have been 116 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: measuring and releasing. That number is not something I've seen 117 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: in other countries. But on average it just got about 118 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: to fifty percent. And when you take into consideration the 119 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: number of beds in hospitals and the number of cases 120 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: in Brazil, that number should have been at least seventy percent. 121 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: Well now by some measures. If you think about it, 122 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,119 Speaker 2: Brazil is about as big as the United States geographically, 123 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: and people may forget about that. It's also the most 124 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: populous country in Latin America. I mean, it's vast, it's large, 125 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: it's diverse, so it's really hard to generalize. But from 126 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: your reporting, Chicli, how are people in Brazil coping with 127 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: the spread of the coronavirus. 128 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: It's been very hard for a lot of people. One 129 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: of the people I spoke with, her name is Lily Silva. 130 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: She's fifty eight years old, and she told her she 131 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: was going through a very hard time. She had lost 132 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: her job at the start of the pandemic and was 133 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: basically being supported by her siblings. And Lily lives in 134 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: Brazil Angia, in the extreme north of the city of 135 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: San Paulo, and that's the neighborhood where most thats have 136 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: been registered in the city. 137 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 3: Inliga. It's a full I was. 138 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: Really struck by what she told me here that every 139 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: day she gets a call and people say do you 140 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: remember such and such mom she died. 141 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 3: Whether the more instead of doing the will to move 142 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 3: to it. 143 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: I think you can hear in her VORs Medea, how 144 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: kind of hopeless she feels. Yeah, she said death is 145 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: something that she's hearing a lot about a lot. 146 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: So some skeptics might say, well, you know that happens. 147 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: How can we be sure that these deaths are confirmed 148 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: as people who were impacted by COVID nineteen. 149 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: A lot of them are not. Lily Silva told me 150 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: that nobody really gets tested in her neighborhood, that she 151 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: only hears about people getting tested when they are admitted 152 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: to the hospital. In the city of San Paulo, there 153 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: are about five thousand deaths of coronavirus, but the city 154 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: is also releasing next to that number a number of 155 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: suspected cases. And the suspected deaths, it's almost another five thousand. 156 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: And you know, Brasilanda is being so badly affected because 157 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: it is a poor neighborhood and most people there are 158 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: essential workers. 159 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 4: So does here Maria, she's talking about this issue of 160 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 4: the lack of isolation. 161 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: What she said to me is there isn't such a 162 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: thing as home office in our neighborhood. People here work 163 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: as maids, construction workers, they are bus drivers, security guards, 164 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: they work as supermarkets. Those are the people who did 165 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: not stop working because of the pandemic. Brazil is a 166 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: country with a huge income disparity, and so there's a 167 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: big difference about how the middle class neighborhoods are living, 168 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: and how poor areas are living. 169 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: So here in the United States, there's been this reawakening 170 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: around the issue of police brutality, and that has really 171 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 2: focused in on the question of people of color, of 172 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: health disparities, and really of structural racism. So I'm wondering 173 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: what is the conversation now in Brazil in terms of 174 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: the impact of COVID nineteen, specifically on the issue of race, 175 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: for example, on black and indigenous communities. 176 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: It's a very similar conversation that is happening in the US. 177 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: Meaning what coronavirus is really showing is that there's a 178 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: huge disparity. There's a big inequality in Brazil, and even 179 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: much bigger than in the US. So, for example, more 180 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: than half of Brazilians identify as black or brown. They 181 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: have being heavily affected by COVID. About one third of 182 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: the deaths in Brazil have been of black or brown Brazilians, 183 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: and many indigenous communities have also been affected. Indigenous communities 184 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: in Brazil live mostly in remote areas of the country 185 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: in the Amazon, in areas where it's far from hospitals, 186 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: so they are isolated, they are more vulnerable, and they 187 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: have less access to resources, and there have been reports 188 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: not only of several deaths in indigenous communities, but of 189 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: deaths of leaders of indigenous communities. So people with very 190 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: important roles in their communities lose in their lives to 191 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. 192 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, we take a look at 193 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: the impact that President Jai Bortsmatos respect bonds to the virus, 194 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: has had on his supporters and on the country. 195 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 5: The denial of Bossner's supporters are so strong, like almost 196 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 5: a religion. 197 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: Stay with us, yes, h. 198 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: M h m hm. 199 00:13:33,400 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: Hm h. Hey, we're back. And before the break, Brazilian 200 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: reporter Jiselli Rehta was telling us about the factors that 201 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: have pushed Brazil to the top of the list of 202 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: coronavirus cases worldwide. We're going to continue that conversation now 203 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 2: with Jizli. So basically, as we're kind of talking about 204 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: the challenges that Brazil is facing, there were three factors, right, 205 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: and we've talked about two of them, the lack of 206 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: testing and the fact that it's really been a challenge 207 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: to do social distancing. So the third issue this brings 208 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: up the president jail Borsonaru. So how has this president 209 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: kind of contributed to the spread of the virus in Brazil. 210 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. He's been dismissive about the pandemic, which 211 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: other leaders have done as well. At the beginning, you know, 212 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: so he would say things. 213 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: Like oh Verdia called them, oh. 214 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: Oh, this is just a little it's nothing to worry about. 215 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: His supporters health rallies. 216 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 6: Supporters of President Jay Bosnarto descended again on the Capitol 217 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 6: Brazilia to defend their battered leader and demand and ends 218 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 6: to all lockdown measures. 219 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 7: And he's going out and he's coughing a lot, and 220 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 7: he's shaking hands with his supporters and taking pictures and selfies. 221 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: So he did things like that that are not only 222 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: like directly dismissing it, but also symbolically dismissing it. But 223 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: there are other factors. Bolsonato headmade cuts are registered the 224 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,359 Speaker 1: public health system. He also ended up delaying the pandemic 225 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: funding to cities and states, and for many people, he's 226 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: larger than life. So what means to be a Bolsonato 227 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: supporter is often means you don't believe in science, you 228 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: don't believe in facts. 229 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: So does that mean that because the president's aims to 230 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: not necessarily be responding in an emergency kind of attitude. 231 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: Does that mean that most of other supporters don't believe 232 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: that coronavirus is in fact a serious threat? 233 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: Many of them don't. I interviewed a pediatrician. Her name 234 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: is Janaina Miranda. She works at a public health clinic 235 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: in the inner city of San Paulo. So what happened 236 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: in her family? Her uncle, who was seventy six years old, 237 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: he got COVID and he died. 238 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 5: Single sol bikimiochu the hospitalizad elphisus pgitus. 239 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: As soon as she learned that her uncle had been 240 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: admitted to the hospital with COVID, because she's a doctor, 241 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: she asked that other family members be tested, and her 242 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: uncle's wife she refused to do the test. 243 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 5: My aunt is a Bolsonnaro supporter. 244 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: I spoke to Janaina a little bit in Portuguese and 245 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: a little bit in English. 246 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 5: And she doesn't believe in the science. The denial of 247 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 5: Bosner's supporters are so strong, like almost a religion. 248 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: She told me that actually, even a few days after 249 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: her uncle had died, the family had a gathering for 250 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: a Mother's Day, as if nothing had happened. Janayena Maria 251 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: is also a cancer survivor. She had breast cancer about 252 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: ten years ago and at her clinic where she works, 253 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: there is no protective equipment. She had to buy all 254 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: of it herself, like gloves, masks, face shields. She told 255 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: me she fears for her own life. 256 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 5: I'm scared and I'm ancient because the death is possible. 257 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about the politics of COVID 258 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: nineteen and leadership. You know, President Trump has been roundly 259 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: criticized for not having a science based response to the pandemic. 260 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: So I'm wondering what has the response been to Borsonado 261 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 2: in Brazil. 262 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: Most Brazilians do not support how he's handling coronavirus, and 263 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: most Brazilians also do not support how he's handling the 264 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: government overall, and there are several calls for his impeachment. 265 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: But it's interesting when asked about impeachment, Presilians are split 266 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: regarding his relationship with President Trump. It's also interesting Jaia 267 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: Bosonado had a dinner with Trump at mar Lago in 268 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: early March. At that time, Trump talked about how much 269 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: he liked Bosonaro, Brazil. 270 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: Loves him and the USA loves him. 271 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: Great job, and how strong their relationship was. 272 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: The friendship is probably stronger now than it's ever been. 273 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: Ironically, just after that visit, several people in Bolsonaro's entourage 274 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: tested positive for COVID. 275 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 5: Concerns in DC this morning as well, after President Trump 276 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 5: was exposed to the coronavirus. 277 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 3: We had dinner together in Florida. 278 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: Sources say the President is indeed concerned about his proximity 279 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: over the weekend to Brazilian President Jaira Bolsonaro. 280 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: And the latest is, of course that Trump did place 281 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: a travel band on people coming from Brazil. So I 282 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: would say right now their relationship is very low priority 283 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: for the US. 284 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: So the irony is that Brazil has universal healthcare and 285 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 2: it seems to have worked in the past during other 286 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: health crises. 287 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: Yes, Brazil's public health system cover is the majority of 288 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: the population. When the eighth pandemic hampened there, for example, 289 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: in the nineties, Brazil offered free treatment. In twenty thirteen, 290 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: Brazil expanded healthcare to poor areas, bringing doctors from Cuba, 291 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: and when the Zeka outbreak happened in twenty fourteen, Brazil 292 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: created genetically modified mosquitoes to eliminate the spread of that epidemic. 293 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: I asked Domingos Alvis, the professor at the University of 294 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: San Paulo, about this. 295 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 3: The country missed the opportunity to be an example in 296 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 3: fighting baby data. 297 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: And he says the failure in the response of the 298 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: pandemic is a huge departure for Brazil. 299 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 3: It is one of the few countries in the world 300 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: with a universal coverage health system. The veliment in ordered 301 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 3: this network. 302 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: So Brazil is one of the few countries with a 303 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: universal healthcare system that reaches out to seventy percent of 304 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: the population. It's a huge network, and he says the 305 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: government basically ignored the network. 306 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: So people might suddenly feel quite dismally about Brazil. I mean, 307 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: this is a really difficult picture that you're painting for 308 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: as Jizelli, So what about the future? Are you concerned 309 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 2: about where the country is going to go in a 310 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: negative way? 311 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: I'm very concerned. I wish I had better news. Most 312 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: countries started reopening their economies once they got the numbers. 313 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: The curve of coronavirus infections either flat or down, but 314 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: in Brazil the numbers are still going up. In most 315 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: cities and states, started reopening in early June, so that 316 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: means shopping malls are open, car dealerships are open in Rio, 317 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: even bar, restaurants and churches are open. There are images 318 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: of people standing in line to get into shopping malls. 319 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: So the expectation is that the numbers are still going 320 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: to go up up before they go down. In fact, 321 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: we're now in mid June and Brazil is number one 322 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: in the whole world in number of daily deaths from coronavirus. 323 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: I asked Domingo Salves about the decision of cities and 324 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: states to reopen their economies, and here's what he told me. 325 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: Who is to because he is in the sound. 326 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: Yes, you can hear how livid he is in this answer. 327 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: He told me public officials are going out there and 328 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: they are telling people that this opening is based on 329 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: scientific evidence. It's a lie. That's really a lot about 330 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: what's going on in Brazil. When you don't believe in facts, 331 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: when you don't believe in science, that's what happens. 332 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 2: Gizelli Regatao, thank you so much for bringing us up 333 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: to date in terms of what's happening with Brazil. 334 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: My pleasure, Mario. 335 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: As of late June, Brazil was reporting over one million 336 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: cases of COVID nineteen and more than fifty thousand debts. Recently, 337 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 2: allies of Jahil Borsunardu have even threatened a military intervention 338 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: in order to help him consolidate power. In the meantime, 339 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: a judge ruled that the Brazilian president will be fined 340 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: if he doesn't wear a mask when appearing in public 341 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: in the country's capital. This episode was produced by Jizelli 342 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: Regatao with help from Luis and edited by Sophia palisa Ka. 343 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: The Latino USA team includes Bien Macis, Antonia Serejidro, Genes Yamoga, 344 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 2: Jimmy Montalo, alissaes Carce and Alejandra Salasad, with help from 345 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: Raoul Perris. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebo and Julia Caruso. 346 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: Additional engineering this week by Leah Shaw. Our director of 347 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 2: programming and Operations is Natalie Fidelholz. Our digital editor is 348 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 2: Amandel Cantra. Our New York Women's Foundation nig Knight Fellow 349 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 2: is Julia Rocha. Our interns are Sophia Sanchez and Marie Mendosa. 350 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Zee RINOs. If you 351 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: like the music you heard on this episode. Stop by 352 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: Lettino Usa dot org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. 353 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: I'm your host and executive producer Marie Josa. Join us 354 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: again next time, and in the meantime, look for us 355 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: on all of your social media and stay safe, obrigada 356 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: and acchilogo. 357 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 7: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Anie 358 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 7: K Foundation. Creates a brighter future for the nation's children 359 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 7: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities. 360 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 7: Carnegie Corporation promoting the advancement and diffusion of knowledge and understanding, 361 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 7: and funding for Latino USA's coverage of a culture of 362 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 7: health is made possible in part by a grant from 363 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 7: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 364 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: You can probably understand rhyme Maria it washkil follow all 365 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: la saw all aa saw fallacy.