1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye, 2 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you 3 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. I for one, am excited 4 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: about this episode because it allows me to use a 5 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: pun that I wrote years ago, and I've never found 6 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: a good use for that pun. I will reveal in 7 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: the course of today's show. But first, I'm Ben really 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: gonna bate and switches like that? Ben. That is hurtful. No, 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: it's foreshadowing. It's big switch if we don't get to 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: that's true. But you know, sometimes we forget. I'm gonna 11 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bug you about him, like Ben, where's that pun? 12 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: That pun? Give me that pun? Buddy system, keep accountable? 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: Who are you know? Your buddy in this buddy system 14 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: of fools? And there, of course, as always, is our superproducer, 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. So today's episode touches on a lot of things. 16 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: That touches on art, it touches on surrealism, it touches 17 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 1: on the mouse capital M, touches on what's that my heart? Ah? 18 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: That's sweet man, And I think it's sincere too, right. Yeah, always, 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm nothing if not perpetually sincere to a fault. So 20 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: Salvador Dolly. It should be well known to anyone, even 21 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: people who don't just save themselves for some reason or 22 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: another fans of art. Salvador Dolly is perhaps the most 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: famous surrealist in modern history. I mean you should know him, 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: if if not only just for his mustache. Yes, yeah, 25 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: and uh, while we're while we're on the subject of 26 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: facial hair. Very quickly thanks to our good friends over 27 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: on the Ridiculous Historians community page, who specifically requested that 28 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: we talked more often about our facial hair. I don't 29 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: know how I feel about that. I don't know either, 30 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: because you know, I thought our French mustache episode was 31 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: pretty good. You know, what else is there to say 32 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: about facial hair? About our facial hair in particular, I 33 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: guess we'd have to do some changes, do some updates, 34 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: or something that gonna happen. Well, I I don't know, man, 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: I if we have to. One of the interesting things 36 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: was the idea of having to disappear like we had 37 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: to disappear. We we probably end up change our facial hair. 38 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: But you can only use that move once. Yeah, then 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: you get into uh, you know, the thing is, don't 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: believe what you see in fiction. Fake facial hair never 41 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: works for a long term disguise. No, absolutely not. It 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: always looks just that looks like fake facial hair. You 43 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: mean the genuine article if you truly want to stage 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: some sort of grand escape. But we're not talking about 45 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: our facial hair today. We're talking about somebody else's facial hair. 46 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: Uh barely in passing right, right, Salvador Dolly, one of 47 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: the most famous artists of his day and one of 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: the most famous mustache rockers of all time, was approached 49 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: by another fan of the mustache uh fellow named Walt 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Disney in nineteen and Walt Disney came to Dolly with 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: with a pitch, Right, he pitched him on something he did, indeed. 52 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: But before we get into the specifics of that pitch, 53 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: we should talk a little bit about Disney and Dollies 54 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: respective childhoods and kind of what led them to become 55 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: the geniuses that they ultimately did become. Yeah, they had 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: a lot of they had a lot of parallels. They 57 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: were actually born in a relatively uh similar time, right, 58 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: they were born three years almost three years apart, so 59 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: they were around the same age range, but they were 60 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: born in different parts of the world. They both were 61 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: coming up in this game called life in the ninth hundreds. 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: And when you think of Salvador Dali and you think 63 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: of Walt Disney, other than the fact that they're fans 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: of mustaches, uh, they may not seem to have very 65 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: much in common. But as you said, no, if we 66 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: look a little deeper into into their professional lives and 67 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: to their artistic inclinations, we see that they actually had 68 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: a lot in common. Thematically. Yeah, they both grew up 69 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: in very small towns. Um. They were sort of big 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: fish in little ponds. There wasn't a whole lot going 71 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: on um in terms of like the arts or any 72 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: kinds of culture in these towns. Uh. Disney was born 73 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: in Chicago, which would have been great, but he actually 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: grew up in uh Marshaling, Missouri, Marcelline, Missouri. And Salvador Dali, 75 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: on the other hand, spent his youth on a small 76 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: rocky coastal town of Costa Brava in Spain, um, which 77 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: was near another place where he spent some of his youth, 78 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: which was a fishing village called katta Quas Yep yep. 79 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: And Walt Disney is the elder though not by much. 80 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: He was born on December five, nineteen o one. Dali 81 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: was born on May eleventh, nineteen o four, and, as 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: pointed out on Walt Disney dot Org of all places, uh, 83 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: the two men had some common parenting themes when they 84 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: were growing up. Their fathers were described as domineering, but 85 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: their mothers were deeply affectionate and warm. This is sadly 86 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: not an unfamiliar situation to a lot of people listening 87 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: to the podcast today. They always felt like dreamers. You know, 88 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: what's How's that old saying go in English? Walking around 89 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: with your head in the clouds? They were. They were 90 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: those sorts of people prone to flights of fancy, but 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: they were also very driven figures. So without making the 92 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: entire podcast about Walt Disney, it's important to know just 93 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: how driven he was and how driven Dolly was. Disney 94 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: was the cartoonist for his high school newspaper, which sounds 95 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: like a cool job, but while he was doing that, 96 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: he was also attending In addition to attending high school, 97 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: he was attending night classes at the Chicago Academy of 98 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: Fine Arts. Talk about an honor student. Yeah, it's almost 99 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: like by the time he finished high school. He was 100 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: firmly um educated, uh and ready to kind of jump 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: right into a career as a cartoonist and elevate that 102 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: to what would be essentially a very new art form 103 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: of the time, which was animation. Dali was also in 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: a slouch when he was a youth. He had his 105 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: first public art show at the Municipal Theater in Figueres, uh, 106 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: and that was when he was just fifteen. And then 107 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: he later a couple of years later, would enroll at 108 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: the Royal Academy of Fine Arts in Madrid, and that's 109 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: where he kind of started to develop his reputation as 110 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: not only an incredible artist and innovative thinker, but also 111 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: a very eccentric personality, which was a big part of 112 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: his brand. And because they were both unorthodox, because they 113 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: were pioneers doing new things, they faced a lot of 114 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: initial bumps in the road was be bumps, a lot 115 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: of obstacles. You know. Disney was a groundbreaking animator and 116 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Dolly was a genius fine artist who was just notoriously weird. 117 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: He was a weird dude. Disney focused on stuff like 118 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: developing new technologies for audio visual equipment. Him along with 119 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: his partner of eye Works developed things like the optical printer, 120 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: which allowed you to insert, you know, animation, like compositing 121 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: things together. It was basically the earliest analog version of 122 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: after effects, where you could take different elements and put 123 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: them together, whether it be you know, things that were 124 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: filmed in the real world and combined with like sell 125 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: animation like you would see in bed nobs and brimsticks 126 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: for example. That was all the results of these crazy 127 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: inventions that he and of Eye Works came up with together. 128 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: Dolly was more of a creative kind of innovator, and 129 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: he was pushing form. He was pushing kind of the 130 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: idea of what art is. And it was part of 131 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: the surrealist movement, which was an offshoot of the datast movement, 132 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: which was like the idea of anti art, you know, 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: are like like Marcel Duchamp and his ar mutt, you know, 134 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: toilet bowl. That was literally just the idea of art 135 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: can be whatever I say it is. Uh. It makes 136 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: me think of this big thing that's making the rounds 137 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: right now, banana, the banana taped to the wall, which 138 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: is this idea that this idea is worth hundreds of 139 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. But the banana itself is ephemeral and replaceable, 140 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: and it's really funny it almost not to get too 141 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: off the subject, but it makes me think of like memes, 142 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: because really the idea is what is proliferating, and people 143 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: are reposting it and turning into different forms, and you know, 144 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: there's like a silver Kanye like with like as as 145 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: a piece of duct tape over the banana. It's just 146 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: become this like taken on a life of its own. 147 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: So you could say initially, oh, that's a really b 148 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: s idea, but then you start to see it really 149 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: like infiltrate the zeitgeist an interesting way. What do you 150 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: think about that, Casey, Yeah, I think it's really interesting. 151 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: I think it's part of almost a sort of meta 152 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: art idea. You could look at somebody like Damien Hurst 153 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: or maybe Jeff Cohns, who are sort of you know, 154 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: their their pieces self for millions of dollars, but they're 155 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: almost about a commentary on the art world and how 156 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: it's all just money and it's all just kind of 157 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: rich people sort of almost laundering their money or or 158 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: protecting their investments their assets by by buying art. But 159 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of no longer about just that experience as 160 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: a human being of seeing a piece of art and 161 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: like having an emotional response to it. Agree with you 162 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: their case you because because there's there's a commentary about process, right, 163 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: and so many quote unquote avalante guarde artists have made 164 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: their fortunes and their careers by essentially proclaiming the emperor 165 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: has no clothes. The emperor in this case being the 166 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: value assigned to art, or the the illusion that there 167 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: is a quantifiable sta value and a meme itself. While 168 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: we're on this, uh, a meme technically is just an 169 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: element of a culture or system of behavior. Memes started 170 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: as an idea, you know, and now we call what 171 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: we call memes are kind of a genre of of 172 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the the larger concept of the meme. And one thing 173 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: that really stands out to me for what you're describing 174 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: their knowal is that Dhalio would say, had this mission 175 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: not just to redefine what visual art is, but to 176 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: blur the lines between art forms that were usually considered 177 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: distinct and separate. Right. So he he would say, you know, 178 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: he would love jazz. He loved improvisational jazz, and to 179 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: him that was a kind of painting, and I think 180 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful way to look at it. Yeah, I agree, 181 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: And I don't want it to sound like I'm saying 182 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: that Dolly was doing this overtly conceptual stuff, because if 183 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: you look at Dollies work, it is very pleasant and 184 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: intriguing to look at, and it gives you all kinds 185 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: of ideas and it's not a banana tape to a wall. 186 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: It is very masterfully in agunitive landscapes and like you know, 187 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: the melting clocks and these kind of worlds that he created, 188 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: which is kind of what made him have a lot 189 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: in common esthetically with Walt Disney, cause weal Disney was 190 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: all about creating that stuff too, And you never really 191 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: peg Disney necessarily as being someone who would be a 192 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: fan of surrealism. But as his career progressed, and I 193 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: think he started getting a bad rap for pushing, um, 194 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, commercial work over artistry. I think he started to, 195 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: you know, get a chip on his shoulder about that, 196 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: and that is what led Um. You know, we're skipping 197 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: some stuff here, but you all know what happened with 198 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: Walt Disney. He became the most influential, important person probably 199 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: the history of cinema. Honestly, I mean that's arguable, but 200 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: at least in terms of like really pushing animation to 201 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: this massive mainstream explosion. Um. He had hits with things 202 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: like you know, snow White, adapting fairy tales into these lush, 203 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: beautiful animated films that made lots of money and got 204 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: people just hooked on animation. Um, but it got to 205 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: a point where he wanted to do something a little 206 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: more innovative and interesting and Fantasia where he started incorporating 207 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: much more kind of surreal imagery without dialogue, just SYNCD 208 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: up to music. That was when he really started to 209 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I want to push the envelope of 210 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: creativity here. And that kind of coincides with a round 211 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 1: the time that he met Salvador Dali. There's some backgrounds 212 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: that I want to provide here before we get to 213 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: their meeting. So we know that they had initial uh skepticism. 214 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: Let's say that I'll be diplomatic and call it skepticism, 215 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: but we know they also proved themselves and they started 216 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: acquiring mainstream notice and acclaim uh dollies. Early work was 217 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: praised widely, as was Disney's Silly symphonies. These were the 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: short form animations that function as experiments or proofs of 219 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: concept for some of those technical uh innovation they were making. 220 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: And as these guys continued their careers, they had a 221 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: brief mentioned where they first they first became aware of 222 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: one another, if not physically meeting, and that was at 223 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: the Museum of Modern Art in New York the Moment. 224 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty six, Dolly had a couple of different 225 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: pieces on display in an exhibition called Fantastic Art, Data 226 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: and Surrealism. And in that same exhibition there were two 227 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: cells animation cells from a short film by Disney called 228 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: Three Little Wolves. Fast forward next year seven, Salvador Dolly 229 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: visits Hollywood for the first time and he says, you 230 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: know what I want to He's always trying to find 231 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: new formats and new mediums. He says, you know what 232 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I want to make an animated film. I think this 233 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: can really bring the metaphysical to this concrete, observable, experiential play. 234 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: And he writes to Andre Breton Casey ke checked me 235 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, it's aunt great surrealist writer. Highly recommend 236 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: his novel Naja Casey on the Case. Thank you, sir, 237 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: Dolly and His In his letter to Breton, says that 238 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Surrealism's influence has become so enormous that even creators of 239 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: animated cartoons are proud to call themselves surrealists. And I 240 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: have come to Hollywood and I am in contact with 241 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: what he called the three great American surrealist Ready for 242 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: this list, this might be surprising the Marx Brothers, Cecil B. DeMille, 243 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: and Walt Disney. For a lot of people would be 244 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: strange to hear Disney lumped in with those. It's true, Um, 245 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: but we have to remember to how new this kind 246 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: of animation was. And another another couple of influential folks 247 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: that would have been lumped into that would have been 248 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: um Tex Avery for example, and Max Fleischer, who were 249 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen any of these 250 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Um from the Inkwell cartoons. They're black and white. There's 251 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: one it's like an early example of rotoscoping, where they 252 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: take the dance moves of Cab Callaway and like map 253 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: them essentially. I don't know, this is a rudimentary way 254 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: of describing to the movements of this really weird ghost 255 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: who does this kind of like Cab Calloway type dance. 256 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: Betty Boop is in it, and that's all like in 257 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: the early thirties, if I'm not mistaken. So that's yeah, 258 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: twenties even exactly. Um. So, just to get the chronology down, 259 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: Disney made a huge splash with Snow White, which came 260 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: out in nineteen thirty seven. And there's some folks that 261 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: actually conjecture that Disney and Dolly may have even met 262 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: as early as nineteen thirty seven. Um. But it was 263 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: then he followed up by Pinocchio in nineteen forty, and 264 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: then that Fantasia which was in production concurrently with with 265 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: with Pinocchio. Um, and that came out in as well. Yes. 266 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: So Disney is known for employing European artists because he 267 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: likes their esthetic. He also is a very acious collector 268 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: of art books, of books of fairy tales, and he's 269 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: been doing that since at least nineteen thirty five, and 270 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: he keeps the library of These two have inspire his artists, 271 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: and years later he has read The Secret Life of 272 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: Salvador Dolly, which is Dolly's autobiography. Disney not only sends 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: his copy to Dolly asking for his autograph, but he 274 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: also says, hey, you know what, we should hang out, 275 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: we should be a crew, we should collaborate, come to 276 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: the Walt Disney studios. So they're conflicting reports, the um 277 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: different narratives. You'll hear. You know you mentioned there was 278 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: a rumored meeting before nineteen five. In early nineteen five, 279 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: we do have a confirmed meeting at a party in Hollywood. Now, 280 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: regardless of when they physically met, whichever narrative ends up 281 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: being true, they already were so aware of each other 282 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: and they had mutually agreed on their camaraderie and their 283 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: common cause. This friendship is supported by hard evidence by 284 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: primary sources. They sent each other fan mail, which I 285 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: think is so sweet and so cool. You can see 286 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: these letters where they're just they're like, you're the greatest. No, 287 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: you're awesome. I love what you're doing. And those kind 288 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: of friendships are amazing. It's super interesting. I would have 289 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: thought that Dolly might have turned his nose up a 290 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: little bit, being some such a out there kind of 291 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: thinker and uh and and visionary, that he might have 292 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: been like, oh, Disney and all this commercial stuff and 293 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: the Seven Dwarves and all of this, like you know, 294 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: big Hollywood money stuff. He might that might have not 295 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: been for him. But it's cool that he recognized the 296 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: innovation and brilliance behind what Disney was doing, even though 297 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: it was obviously very commercially successful. Um not that Salvador 298 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: Deli wasn't also a pretty wealthy man at this point 299 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: just because of his influence on the art world as well. 300 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: It was definitely a superstar in his own right. And 301 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: here is where we enter into a bit of speculation, 302 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: because these guys on board no reservations, and we have 303 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: to wonder how their collaboration would have proceeded were it 304 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: not for World War Two, because as as World War 305 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: Two is at its fever pitch, uh, they you know, 306 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: it's stymies their abilities to collaborate or their opportunities to 307 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: do so. And then in nineteen Walt Disney, like Nassalvador Dolly, 308 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: asked him to design an animated short straight from the 309 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: mind of Dolly, to be part of this film that 310 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: would be kind of like Fantasia. And and it's tough 311 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: to you know, I think it's tough for us, uh 312 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: in the modern day to really understand how amazing and 313 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: just out there Fantasia was in nineteen because we all 314 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: grew up with this extended flight of fancy. I love 315 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: I love the whole thing too, and it still holds 316 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: up brilliantly and is is pretty terrifying in some sections. 317 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: There's the whole night on Bald Mountain with the crazy 318 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: demon coming out of the volcano thing. I mean, it's 319 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: really some some pretty dark stuff. And then of course 320 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: it goes into like you know, parts with fairies and woodland, 321 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: uh kind of spirits and all of that. And then 322 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: there's you know, the whole hippo hippos and all of 323 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: this uh kind of stitched together by the soundtrack and um, 324 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: not to get too of course, but it's always fascinating 325 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: me how he was able to figure out how to 326 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: sink these hundreds and hundreds of of you know, hand 327 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: drawn animations with the soundtrack because you have to hit 328 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: these beats, these marks absolutely perfectly to to make that work, 329 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: and it just sinks up just like, absolutely flawlessly. Um, 330 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: And so you're you're right, then it absolutely was a 331 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: work of surrealism in its own right, and he wanted 332 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: to keep doing stuff like that. Yeah, and shout out, 333 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: I I don't want to is to get lost. Shout 334 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: out to my favorite character and Fantasia Scharona Bog the 335 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: demon from Night on Bald Mountain and Ave Maria. That 336 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: is still one of my favorite sequences of animation. So 337 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: Dolly agrees. Of course, his best bud mutual admirer of 338 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: his wants to work with him. Dreams do come true, 339 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: it seems. So Dolly goes through the extensive Disney Music 340 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: library and he says, okay, let me find you know, 341 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: Fantasia rules. Let me find a song, uh that will 342 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: inspire this visual element, and then he chooses a ballad 343 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: by Ray Gilbert and Armando Domingo is called Destino because 344 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: the title, the Spanish word for destiny, really really speaks 345 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: to him. I wonder, can we play just a brief 346 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: clip of that to let everybody get a get a 347 00:20:50,680 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: handle on what we're talking about a quick so for 348 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: a let's see. I don't want to spoil this for people, 349 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: but you can. You can hear the song Totino. It's 350 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: easy to find, and you can also you can see 351 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the storyboards the Dolly worked on. But don't do that 352 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: just just yet. Let's get to the rest of the 353 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: story because World War Two is still going on. But 354 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: Disney is still working right, yeah, as his dolly, as 355 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: a essentially a full time employee of the Walt Disney Company, 356 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: at least for a time where he's showing up to 357 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: the studio every morning and around eight am and working 358 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: NonStop on the storyboards you mentioned until around five or 359 00:21:52,520 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: six o'clock at night. Disney says, Okay, I'm having a 360 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: tough time making these feature length films, but I need 361 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: to keep the studio afloat, so I'm gonna make package films. 362 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: And uh, these package films are things like The Adventures 363 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: of Ikabad and Mr Toad, which is one of the 364 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: the last ones of that iteration, but there were five 365 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: others for a grand total of six after they go 366 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: back to features, and they famously create Cinderella. But Disney, 367 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: this is interesting. He saw that Fantasia could be a 368 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: viable thing to bring to the public, and he wanted 369 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: to Uh. He wanted to try to focus on those 370 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: package films. So it wasn't just a financial concern, it 371 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: was an artistic an aesthetic concern. Ultimately, he wanted to 372 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: take the public perception of animation and change it from 373 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: something silly, something steamboat. Willie asked to something that would 374 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: be considered high art. And we see this with different 375 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: formats of art throughout the ages, Like there was a 376 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: time when novels were considered you know, low and not 377 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: not particularly respected. What do you think podcasts are gonna 378 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: fall on this continuum? How history regard our our medium 379 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: ben like radio? Maybe? I I don't know. I've been 380 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: keeping an eye on blogs. I want to see what 381 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: happens to blogs because you remember before we got into 382 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: this business, or even well, um, right around the time, uh, 383 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: we we were seeing peak blog and inundation. Everybody was 384 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: a blogger, right if you were at my blog. And 385 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: now you know, many many people are podcasting, which I 386 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: think is great. I don't know. I don't know. I 387 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: don't have the crystal blog for that. It could not 388 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: worth it. I was absolutely worth it. I got I 389 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: gotta chuckle out of this old shriveled grinch. Heart. So 390 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: you have a you have a big heart goal. Uh 391 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: so what do you have the heart of a lion? 392 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: And a lifetime band from the Atlanta Zoot. Then the 393 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: funny ones are not written by me, but we can 394 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: understand that. You know, he's this guy Disney. He has 395 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: an artist he's a visionary, and he's saying, hey, the 396 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: money is great, and I need the money, but also 397 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: to feed my soul and to garner the respect that 398 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: I feel this deserves. We need to start thinking of 399 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: animation as an art form, not just something entertaining for children. 400 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: But he's still he's still having a tough time. And 401 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: we talked about too how a lot of his employees 402 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: were drafted into the military during this time point. Yeah, yeah, 403 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: and not to mention that another way that they made 404 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: money was I don't know exactly how the money changed hands, 405 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: but imagine they would have had to get some government 406 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: funding for those propaganda films. There's a really interesting period 407 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: in Disney history where they were making like there's the 408 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: in the Fuers Face where it's like if the furor says, 409 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: v is zamasta raise sigile right in the furorspace, and 410 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: I believe that's starring Donald Duck was the star of 411 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: a lot of those, uh, And they're really fascinating. And 412 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: by the way, if if anyone and you you in 413 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: Casey as well, find yourselves in San Francisco, I highly 414 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: recommend visiting the Disney Family Museum. It's not connected to 415 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: like the Walt Disney Company. It's strictly from the Disney 416 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: Family Trust, so it's very much a lot of the 417 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: things that Disney Company would kind of tend to disown 418 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: or not want to like talk about, like these propaganda 419 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: posters and films. So you can see a lot of 420 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: the original posters for these, uh there, in addition to 421 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: a lot of like potentially problematic merchandise that might have 422 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: come out that kind of stuff exactly. And also you 423 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: have like scale models of his theme parks and a 424 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: lot of the animatronic imagineering kind of innovations. And they 425 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,479 Speaker 1: actually have their that optical printer that we talked about. Um, 426 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: it's either a recreation or it it might well be the 427 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: actual thing um there in the museum. So I highly 428 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: recommend checking that out and you can get a I 429 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: don't remember seeing any of the Dolly stuff there, but 430 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it was and I just 431 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: missed it. And we do want to warn anybody who 432 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: hasn't seen the World War two era propaganda films from Disney. 433 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: They do contain blatant and offensive racist stereotypes, particularly against 434 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: German and Japanese people, and just just gird yourself before 435 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: you see that. Well, folks, you may be asking yourself, 436 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: why is Casey talking all of a sudden, Well, it's 437 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: because we have reached the end of part one of 438 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: this two parter on Salvador Dali and Walt Disney and 439 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: a little Peek behind the Curtain. We recorded this episode, 440 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: we really enjoyed it and decided to make it a 441 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: two parter because it was kind of long, and then 442 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: we forgot to record the intro outro that would be 443 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: necessary for all those pieces to fit together. So you find, 444 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: folks out there in podcast land get to hear me 445 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of stumbled my way through an outro for a change. So, 446 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: first and foremost thanks to all the Ridiculous Historians for 447 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: tuning in from week to week as we do this 448 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: Goofy program. We're we're a little mystified, but you know, 449 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: happy that you've seem to enjoy it. You can join 450 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: the conversation over on our Facebook group Ridiculous Historians. All 451 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: three of us post there at least once in a while. 452 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: You can write us an email. We are ridiculous at 453 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: my heart radio dot com. We always like to see 454 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: what folks have to say. Sometimes we'll read things on 455 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: the air, probably not as much as we should. Uh. 456 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: You can find Ben A. Nol individually on social media 457 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: BNS on Twitter at Ben Bowling hs W. He's also 458 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram at ben Bowling. Nol is on Instagram exclusively. 459 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: He does not do Twitter at least not beyond being 460 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: a lurker. And Noel's Instagram handle is at how Now 461 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: Noel Brown. Thank you as always to our super producer, 462 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: Casey Pagram. Whoa, that's me. That's awkward. Yeah, thank you 463 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: to been a knowl I have to this is this 464 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: is fun. I get to say this on the air, 465 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: so um, you know, we've been doing the show for 466 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: or I think a couple of years at this point. 467 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure. It's been an adventure. It 468 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: hasn't been much of a roller coaster. It's just been 469 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: fun the whole time. I guess roller coasters are fun 470 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: the whole time too. But you know, usually when people 471 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: say a roller coaster, they mean like highs and lows, 472 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: but this has all been highs. So yeah, thank you 473 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: guys for being just uh you know, being you. Thank 474 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: you of course to Alex Williams, who composed are awesome 475 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: theme music that you're hearing at the beginning and ending 476 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: of pretty much every episode. I don't think we've ever 477 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: really messed around with that formula too much. Thanks to Gabe, 478 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: our research associate, always delivering on the great research that 479 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: kind of fills in a lot of the blanks in 480 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: these stories. Thank you to Christopher hasciotis here in spirit. 481 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: Thanks to Jonathan Strickland, also known as the Quister, purveyor 482 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: of the most cringe worthy segment and all of podcasting, 483 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: at least before me doing this outro, I will be 484 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: back at the top of the show on Thursday, and 485 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: I will I will still explain some of what's happening then, 486 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: just for the people that are for some reason only 487 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: listening to part two. But you folks who are listening 488 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: to a part one, you get it. You know what's 489 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: going on, and uh as Noel is fond of saying, 490 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for 491 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 492 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.