Speaker 1: I won't let my body outwa outwait everything that I'm made,
Speaker 1: don't won't spend my life trying to change. I'm learning
Speaker 1: love who I am. I I'm strong, I'm bilfree, I
Speaker 1: know every part of me is beautiful and then will
Speaker 1: always out way if you feeling but your hands and
Speaker 1: there she'll have love to the have there. Say go
Speaker 1: day Anita, did you and die out Way?
Speaker 2: Happy Saturday, Outway fam.
Speaker 3: I am sitting across from Crystal Luninchlass, which she is
Speaker 3: a friend of Kat Defautas, who is the host of
Speaker 3: You Need Therapy, and she's joined me on four Things
Speaker 3: That Maybe Round and she's been on the Outway podcast
Speaker 3: as well. And Crystal, you're I would say, y'all are
Speaker 3: basically like.
Speaker 4: Colleagues, colleagues ish in the same field, BFFs, oh colleagues
Speaker 4: and baffs.
Speaker 3: So why don't you share with us too or your background,
Speaker 3: your credentials and what you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: I am a registered dietitian going on over twelve years
Speaker 4: now in the field, specifically working in addiction recovery, eating
Speaker 4: disorder treatment and sports nutrition and kind of everything in between.
Speaker 4: My real passion is working with pretty acute eating disorder
Speaker 4: treatment and complex cases. And so I became a certified
Speaker 4: Eating disorder registered dietitian to be able to really elevate
Speaker 4: my expertise in that. And then I also work with
Speaker 4: body image and really, I mean what we're talking about
Speaker 4: today with the brain and really interested and the complexities
Speaker 4: of how the disease process works. And so I try
Speaker 4: to practice that in my private practice. I have a
Speaker 4: group practice where we can do all the fun healing
Speaker 4: things that way.
Speaker 3: Which is yeah, Horizon Nutrition Counseling if you happen to
Speaker 3: be here in Nashville. If not, she has a website
Speaker 3: Horizon Nutrition Counseling dot com. And yeah, like you mentioned
Speaker 3: the brain and our bodies, Well, we're going to break
Speaker 3: down today how body image is more about your brain
Speaker 3: than what you look like.
Speaker 2: So break down what that means.
Speaker 4: Great, So, body image is a perception, So it's not
Speaker 4: necessarily based on factual information all the time. It's based
Speaker 4: on your perception and a collective experience of your thoughts
Speaker 4: and feelings and how you feel in your body versus
Speaker 4: what we may physically see when we look down at
Speaker 4: our bodies. And so that's where it really is a
Speaker 4: game of how our brain processes that information and what
Speaker 4: lens it gets processed through. So if the lens is
Speaker 4: somewhat disordered, then the collective way our brain puts that
Speaker 4: picture together is going to be slightly distorted or severely
Speaker 4: distorted in more dysmorphic types. So it really becomes a
Speaker 4: game of genetics. The way our eating habits are our
Speaker 4: brain slightly malnourished in certain ways, if it's had a
Speaker 4: brain injury, if we've used substances. There's so many things
Speaker 4: that impact the way our brain processes information, and so
Speaker 4: from my point of view, it really does become more
Speaker 4: of the.
Speaker 2: Behavioral part of how we.
Speaker 4: Think about our bodies.
Speaker 2: It makes me think of BDDES body.
Speaker 3: Dysmorphic disorder, and I've been doing a lot of work
Speaker 3: on my brain lately. Actually, before we set down and record,
Speaker 3: I was like, Hey, right after this, I have a
Speaker 3: neuro feedback appointment and I can't be late because I
Speaker 3: like to take advantage of every minute. I mean, I
Speaker 3: can be late, but that we'll seep into my brain
Speaker 3: therapy time. And I have realized I'm two years into recovery.
Speaker 3: You don't know a lot of my backstory. Some listeners do,
Speaker 3: but maybe this is your first day listening to Outweigh.
Speaker 3: But I am here as just the person that wants
Speaker 3: to come alongside others that are in the thick of it,
Speaker 3: or maybe they're also in recovery, and just I want
Speaker 3: you to know you're not alone. And I have experts
Speaker 3: come on that know the facts and like why we
Speaker 3: are the way we are, and that's what Crystal doing
Speaker 3: here today. So I'm not claiming to be an expert
Speaker 3: by any means, but I've seen in my own self
Speaker 3: is as my brain has gotten healthier, it's easier for
Speaker 3: me to navigate some of this stuff because I'm not
Speaker 3: so for lack of a better term, I'm not so
Speaker 3: all up in my head about it. It's like I'm
Speaker 3: able to kind of, you know, take more of a
Speaker 3: straight line to where I need to go instead of
Speaker 3: zigzagging all over the place and getting caught up in
Speaker 3: loops and this and that. It's like things are just
Speaker 3: more clear to me. But that's as I've had the
Speaker 3: luxury and the privilege to do something to take care
Speaker 3: of my brain, like therapy and neurofeedback and taking the
Speaker 3: time for myself and I know, not everybody has access
Speaker 3: to those things, so I do recognize that. But it
Speaker 3: is interesting to me that as I've really been focusing
Speaker 3: on my brain the last you know, I would say,
Speaker 3: year full year, I'm starting to see the benefits. And
Speaker 3: it's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yes, it is crazy when you actually experience brain change
Speaker 4: and see those neural paths ways actually changing. I imagine
Speaker 4: it as like a very thick brush where like you
Speaker 4: couldn't just walk into the to the forest, you know,
Speaker 4: and we have to blaze this trail of new neural
Speaker 4: pathways that takes so much work and effort to actually
Speaker 4: turn into more of a dirt road and then more
Speaker 4: of like a paved road with like lighting. And it's
Speaker 4: not you know, it really takes so much practice and
Speaker 4: effort in different types of therapies to really change the
Speaker 4: brain to perceive our body in.
Speaker 2: A true and genuine way, which I can't remember.
Speaker 3: Is there like a number ish where you have to
Speaker 3: do something a certain amount of times? Because when I
Speaker 3: was in recovery. Have you heard of the book Brain
Speaker 3: over Binge? I have, Okay, so I read that early on.
Speaker 3: That was something that clicked with me in the start.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the only component to my recovery at all.
Speaker 3: But it was something you know, she's very much focusing
Speaker 3: on the brain and me training myself and building those
Speaker 3: new neural pathways to be like every time I was
Speaker 3: going to go to the pantry, it's like I stopped
Speaker 3: and I turned around, but I had to go and
Speaker 3: stop and turn around hundreds and hundreds. I don't even
Speaker 3: know how many times I had to do it to
Speaker 3: build the new neuropathways.
Speaker 2: And I can't remember if she ever gave a number.
Speaker 4: Yeah, is there What I think in general, it's, you know,
Speaker 4: to break a habit quote unquote, it's about twenty one times. Okay,
Speaker 4: Well for me, I was last Well, the difference between
Speaker 4: a habit and a ritual is that ritual it's going
Speaker 4: to take a lot more because it's not just the
Speaker 4: behavior you're changing, you're changing the emotional connection to it.
Speaker 4: And that's a whole different ballgames than just like I'm
Speaker 4: going to stop, you know, like biting my fingernail, you know,
Speaker 4: or something like that. It takes more intention and more.
Speaker 2: Skill to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so this is something I think that is
Speaker 3: commonly talked about amongst women, but men suffer from this
Speaker 3: just the same.
Speaker 2: I don't even know suffers the right word, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have the same experiences men. It's it's unfortunate
Speaker 4: because I think it's more of a stereotype that men
Speaker 4: don't have issues, and so no one asks them the question,
Speaker 4: and many times they're not very forthcoming with the information
Speaker 4: and seeking help themselves. So if the assumption is that
Speaker 4: men don't have issues, their therapists may not be asking,
Speaker 4: their doctors might not be asking, and so they may
Speaker 4: be doing a lot of things that you know, that
Speaker 4: they know to do to change their body image that's
Speaker 4: not very healthy. It presents a little bit different than
Speaker 4: they would women because it's kind of normalized for women
Speaker 4: to speak negatively about our bodies to other women, but
Speaker 4: men they kind of like joke about it and grab
Speaker 4: things and oh, you know, they're very like aggressive with
Speaker 4: it sometimes and they're just meant to kind of shake
Speaker 4: it off. So I've seen it present in so many
Speaker 4: ways with men where they end up maybe using drugs
Speaker 4: or alcohol to mask their body image issues. I've seen
Speaker 4: bodybuilders they kind of say, like, my muscles are kind
Speaker 4: of my way of like being scary and intimidating, so
Speaker 4: people leave me alone. It presents just differently for men sometimes,
Speaker 4: but really they struggle with the same thing, but no
Speaker 4: one asks them about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, said they joke about it and made me think
Speaker 3: of yes, like I know men that after conversations have
Speaker 3: come out and said, I mean, yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 2: I don't when I look in the mirror, this is
Speaker 2: not what I see. This is what I see.
Speaker 3: And it is crazy because we look at other people
Speaker 3: and we're like, that's not what I'm noticing about you
Speaker 3: at all. Like you said, it's a lot of it
Speaker 3: is in our head. And I remember feeling so much
Speaker 3: shame about my eating disorder, and I just feel for
Speaker 3: men too. I don't know if there's more shame, if
Speaker 3: that's possible, because like women, we can I felt shame
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to talk about it. But then again,
Speaker 3: like you said, it's like more acceptable for women to
Speaker 3: have concerns, so the shame almost seems extra for men.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it absolutely is, and they certainly don't want to
Speaker 4: talk to other men about it because you know what,
Speaker 4: if the peer is really just more judgmental, like what
Speaker 4: why are you asking about that? I don't want to
Speaker 4: talk about that. Whereas women were like tell me everything
Speaker 4: you like, tell me about your things, and so it's
Speaker 4: a little bit different. But I used to run men
Speaker 4: male by the image groups. It was men only, and
Speaker 4: it was so amazing to see the healing that comes
Speaker 4: out of that when you put a group of men
Speaker 4: together who are actually open to discussing their issues and
Speaker 4: just seeing that, like, I'm not alone. This stereotype needs
Speaker 4: to change, and it's only going to change with me,
Speaker 4: with us and within the you know, like as we
Speaker 4: build out of our community and how we you know,
Speaker 4: they start kind of getting empowered to change too. But
Speaker 4: it's definitely the same and it's something that we need
Speaker 4: to talk about more well.
Speaker 3: So when it comes to either men, women, young or older,
Speaker 3: there's there's I mean, eating disorders and disorder behaviors affects
Speaker 3: anyone and everyone or can So what little tools do
Speaker 3: you have maybe to share just a few with us
Speaker 3: that we can keep in our back pocket when we're
Speaker 3: right now trying to process Okay, wait, this is more
Speaker 3: my brain, this body image thing, it's all in my head.
Speaker 3: So what are some things that we can be doing
Speaker 3: to start building those neuropathways and undoing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there's a type of therapy called cognitive behavioral therapy,
Speaker 4: and it really is what we know changes the brain
Speaker 4: the most. That and like exposure therapy, so the CBT
Speaker 4: has a set of skills that really just helps with
Speaker 4: stopping thoughts. So as you notice kind of ruminating or
Speaker 4: cyclical thoughts that kind of rabbit trail into just a
Speaker 4: lot of bullying and a negativity. That's the thought where
Speaker 4: if you can stop and think about literally anything else.
Speaker 4: So think of it as like, even though your brain's
Speaker 4: not a muscle, but think of it as like if
Speaker 4: I'm trying to strengthen my bicep, I'm gonna exercise my bicep,
Speaker 4: and if I exercise my brain to think mostly negative things,
Speaker 4: that's what it's automatically going to do. So if we
Speaker 4: can stop those negative thoughts in its tracks, it's not
Speaker 4: strengthening those pathways. And then if we can follow it
Speaker 4: up with a neutral thought or even maybe a positive thought,
Speaker 4: that's the foundation of laying down those pathways.
Speaker 3: It makes me think of when we're a kid and
Speaker 3: we're learning fire drills and it's like.
Speaker 2: Stop is the first thing, like stop dropping roll, But
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, first thing we have to do is.
Speaker 4: Just stop, But you first have to recognize you even
Speaker 4: having the thoughts, So you have to be very mindful of, Wow,
Speaker 4: I just zoned out with this negative thought for a
Speaker 4: really long time. I need to first acknowledge that I'm
Speaker 4: having that thought, because the more you can catch it sooner,
Speaker 4: the more you can redirect it.
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad you said that, because, yeah, how
Speaker 3: can you stop something that I don't even realize is happening.
Speaker 4: Especially when it consumes your your headspace so much, you
Speaker 4: just it's just kind of normal, Like what do you mean,
Speaker 4: Like I as soon as I see my leg, like
Speaker 4: I say, my brain just immediately goes there. And so
Speaker 4: you know that you already know that about yourself. So
Speaker 4: have a set of just kind of thoughts and phrases
Speaker 4: that you can just say to stop that thought. And
Speaker 4: then also there you know, kind of being body avoidant
Speaker 4: creates a fear of a known you know, And so
Speaker 4: I would also encourage just knowing your body is really
Speaker 4: important because if we're wearing baggy things, if we're avoiding
Speaker 4: looking at ourselves in the mirror, of course we're going
Speaker 4: to create an image in our mind that's distorted because
Speaker 4: we're only knowing what our body shape is based on
Speaker 4: how negative our thoughts are. I'm not asking you know,
Speaker 4: like love your body and look at all the things
Speaker 4: right now, but it's really about if you notice you're
Speaker 4: completely body avoidant, that is going to create this fear
Speaker 4: and wire your nervous system to be scared of it,
Speaker 4: and that also is gonna cause a lot of harm
Speaker 4: long term.
Speaker 3: Okay, So first just to recap, we need to recognize
Speaker 3: and acknowledge what's happening. Then secondly we need to stop
Speaker 3: if once we notice the negativity, just put a stop
Speaker 3: to it and replace it with something neutral or positive.
Speaker 3: Now instead of just saying positive, why did you say neutral?
Speaker 4: Because some people just can't they're not ready for positive yet. Okay,
Speaker 4: So or they'll just say positive something and just be like,
Speaker 4: I don't believe that anyway.
Speaker 3: Well, because yeah, for affirmations, you have to truly believe
Speaker 3: it for it to start.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you don't necessarily have to truly believe it on
Speaker 4: the front end.
Speaker 2: Okay, the more you say it, you eventually do.
Speaker 4: But some people are just not even they cannot it
Speaker 4: actually makes it can be more harmful. So sometimes just
Speaker 4: neutral or just challenging the you know, if it's everyone
Speaker 4: stares at me when.
Speaker 2: I go to the beach, well do they really?
Speaker 4: You know, like, look around, is everyone you know looking
Speaker 4: at you when you step on the beach? Recognize the
Speaker 4: reality that it's not okay?
Speaker 3: And then the last one knowing your body, yes, and
Speaker 3: don't be what you were saying.
Speaker 2: A body avoidance. Okay.
Speaker 3: So thank you for sharing those little those little things.
Speaker 3: Those are three things right there that you can keep
Speaker 3: in your back pocket if you notice, you know, body
Speaker 3: image type thoughts popping into your head. And just again
Speaker 3: know that you're not alone, whether you're male or female.
Speaker 3: And I know, just me being a woman, I spend
Speaker 3: a lot of time saying, oh, well, you know, I
Speaker 3: speak to the women, and then I'll get a note
Speaker 3: from a man and I'm just reminded, oh, yes, men
Speaker 3: are going through this too, and again I've even witnessed it.
Speaker 3: So thank you for coming on and sharing that. And
Speaker 3: if there's any men listening and you have thoughts or
Speaker 3: emails something you want to share, or you would like
Speaker 3: to share some of your story, would love to hear
Speaker 3: from you. Hello at outweighpodcast dot com is where you
Speaker 3: can hit us up and then Crystal your website one
Speaker 3: more time.
Speaker 4: Horizon Nutrition Counseling dot com.
Speaker 2: All right, se y'all next Saturday. Bye,