1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Ken Baxton has been impeached as 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Attorney General of Texas. We have a great show today. 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Senator Tammy Baldwin stops by to talk about veterans services 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: and how you pass bipartisan legislation in the year twenty 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: twenty three. Then we'll talk to Kim Kelly about the 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: horrors of black lung coming back in the West Virginia 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: coal mines. But first we have MSNBC Daily Editor James Downey. 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics. James Downey, thank you for 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: having me again. Very excited to have you. So let's 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: talk about what is happening with the Texas legislature. I mean, 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: I bet this is an incredible story because it's so stupid. 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: Oh it's yeah, it's incredible is exactly the right word. 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: I mean Ken Paxton the attorney general. There a House 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: panel that has been investigating him just came out with 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: twenty articles of impeachment and recommended his impeachment. And this 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: is a Republican led panel. The idea of impeaching an 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: attorney general in his third term. He's been re elected 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: relatively comfortably twice, though by Republican in Texas standards, not 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: hugely comfortably. 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: And he did have challengers like my favorite senator, the 23 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: stupidest man in the Senate, Louis. That's the French Louis 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: to Gomert Louis Gohmert, who failed to challenge him in 25 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: the primary. 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he has shown he has quite quite the base 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: in Texas. He has a lot of fans on the 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: conservative base there. These are twenty articles impeachment, largely centered 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: around protecting a donor of his who and among other things, 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: also hired a woman that Paxston allegedly was having an 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: affair with. 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm shocked, so think this. 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: Is nothing new for Paxston. That this guy has been 34 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: under indictment for securities frauds since I believe twenty fifteen 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: and has yet to stand trial thanks to a series 36 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: of legal maneuvers. 37 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: How do you do that, by the way. 38 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't know, but I would imagine 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: being the Attorney General of Texas helps, right, I think 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: to some degree at least it is because he is 41 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: in office that he's been able to stave it off 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: this long and he's on an FBI investigation for these donor. 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: Allegations of the allegations of helping this donor and protecting. 44 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: Part of the articles of impeachment include retaliation against whistleblowers 45 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: in his office, four different whistleblowers, and he's trying to 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: get Basically, these four different whistleblowers have won a three 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: point I believe it's over three million dollars a judgment 48 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: against him, and he's trying to get the state to 49 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: foot the bill. 50 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: Wait say that again. 51 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: He faces a whistleblower complaint from four different whistleblowers. This 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: is packs done, yes, and he settled a lawsuit in 53 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: February from four former aids for three point three million dollars. 54 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: I mean there are allegations in the articles impeachment that 55 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: are related to involving retaliation, but separate from that, he 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: wants the state to foot the bill for the three 57 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: point three million dollars. 58 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: Why what's the thinking here? 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: Because he's the attorney general? Is his thinking? I mean 60 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: the legislature has already this is another area in which 61 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: the Texas legislature has balked it. I mean they are 62 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: not on board with doing this you know, one important 63 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: piece of context here is that the Texas Republican Party, 64 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: there's the conservative grassroots. There's also the sort of more 65 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: business friendly establishment of the party, which is particularly powerful 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: in the state legislature. 67 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: Which part is Paxton and. 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: Paxton is the conservative base is the grassroots, and he 69 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: has been feuding with, most recently the House Speaker Feelin, 70 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: who he accused of being drunk based off of a 71 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: video where Feeling was slurring his words or appeared to 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: be slurring his words. 73 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: I suppose do you think the house speaker was drunk? 74 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: Oh? 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: I watched that video and it certainly sounded like that 76 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: was not how normal people speak. 77 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: He sounded like he was learning as well as that's 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: for sure, right. But I think that Ken Paxton's bringing 79 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: it up to distract. This is a guy who I mean, 80 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: we've seen it. You mentioned Louis Gohmer, you met me 81 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: like we obviously. Ted Cruz is another example of this 82 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: where we see, particularly in Texas, but all over the place, 83 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: where you have these Republicans who are beloved by the 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: base and the grassroots and the talk show listeners who 85 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: are just do not get along just on a personal 86 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: level with the establishment of the party, and I mean 87 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 2: again just something they are purely personal. I mean, Paxton, 88 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: this is a guy who, from the perspective of just effectiveness, 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: he's made the state you know, a laughing stock in 90 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: terms of the kinds of challenges and the kinds of 91 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: projects he's gotten involved with. I mean, he was at 92 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: the forefront of the election challenges, which guy laughed out 93 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: of court even by conservative judges. And abortion, yeah, well 94 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: an abortion. I think there he'll have more support from 95 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 2: again the establishment, where that's more sort of an agreement. 96 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: But I think if you're the tech Republican establishment, you 97 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: don't want this guy, this clown wasting I mean again, 98 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: millions of dollars and wasting all of this time and 99 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: all this energy on you know, on this impeachment stuff, 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: on these pie in the sky even by Republican standards lawsuits. 101 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: You know, you want someone who's going to be more effective. 102 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: It's very unclear whether or not they'll actually vote to 103 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: impeach him. They only need some majority in the House. 104 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: They need two thirds ind and Senate, just like at 105 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: the federal level. 106 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: But the panel that voted to bring up the charges 107 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: of impeachment was five zero. 108 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and that was Republican led I think I 109 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: think the bigger issue is whether they could get two 110 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: thirds in the Senate, which is Republican majority. I believe 111 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: it's close to two thirds Republican majority in the state Senate, 112 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: even if the State House again moved forward with the impeachment. 113 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 2: It's just there are there are plenty of legislators there, 114 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: even if they're not in leadership, who are very beholden 115 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 2: to the grassroots and very much agree with Paxton and 116 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: are very much in his corner. You know, we talk 117 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 2: about Greg Abbott. A lot of the terrible things he's 118 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 2: done as governor there, a lot of them have been 119 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: basically him protecting him his right flank against the Paxton 120 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: wing of the party. Not so much that Paxton himself 121 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: would be running against Abbot, but Dan Patrick, the lieutenant governor. 122 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: He was very worried about jud Challen's. 123 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: It, so Patrick might run for governor against Greg Abbott. 124 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 2: The fear was that Dan Patrick would run against him 125 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, right, which is too late, so 126 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: that Abbot had to make moves. Some of the stuff 127 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: that Abbot has done, I mean, not that he's had 128 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 2: a great record overall, but some of the stuff that 129 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: Abbot has done has been very much in with mind 130 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: towards preventing the right flank of the party from ousting 131 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: him in a primary. 132 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: Unbelievably insane. 133 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: It's incredible, you know. And it's also incredible that in 134 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: some ways I'm more surprised that Republicans would actually move 135 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: to impeach him than that an attorney general would do. 136 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: This would behave this way right? 137 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: All right? No, no, me too. Think about all they 138 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: went through with Trump, where they just were like going 139 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: along with that. 140 00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. 141 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: I think again, it's speaks to Paxton's personal lack of charm, 142 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, and if we we'll talk about this later 143 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: again with a certain Florida governor, but I think Paxton 144 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: just on a personal level, doesn't really endear himself to 145 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: a lot of his fellow Texas Republican well, I guess legislators, lawmakers, 146 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: et cetera. 147 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: Speaking of charmless, we are in this very interesting failure 148 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: to launch the thing. I'm struck by. It's like, you know, 149 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing so much breathless coverage. Do you see a 150 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: world where there is you know, Ron DeSantis is Trump 151 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: without the charisma right without the charm, Like, who is 152 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: this for? 153 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: I think the first way to answer that is to 154 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: go back to the rapid, unscheduled to sent disassembly that 155 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: was the Twitter spaces. I mean, that's the sort of 156 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: thing you put together to announce your campaign on Twitter, 157 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: even if it all goes according to plan. Is the 158 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: only the kind of thing you do if you have 159 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: a very online group of advisors, have people around him, 160 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: his communications people, many of his most public facing communications 161 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: people at least like Christina Pushaw and others very much 162 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: embrace battle on Twitter. And that's weird. Like you, if 163 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: you wanted to reach the most people, if you want 164 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: to do it online and break some boundaries and stuff, 165 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: you'd do it on YouTube. You wouldn't do it on Twitter. 166 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: So who is this for? I think it's for the 167 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: extremely online conservative person who you know thinks they're fighting 168 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: the woke mind virus. 169 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: Right all right, yes, the woke mind virus everybody drank. 170 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hardly an encouraging start for him, to say 171 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: the least. I think that. Well, before we go further, 172 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: I think you don't need me to tell you, but 173 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: obviously you know it's important. I think to repeat before 174 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: going further into the horse race coverage, is that, you know, 175 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: just the fact that this guy is where he is, 176 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: it's just a terrible thing for the country, given his 177 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: record of voting rights, his book bands, the attacks on nCbT, Floridians, 178 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: et cetera. 179 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: The thing I'm struck by an I was like arguing 180 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: with someone about this on television yesterday. It's like he 181 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: hates gay people. Like his legislation is so shockingly anti gay. 182 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: I mean for a country that has codified gay marriage, 183 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: like yeah, we are, this is not being gay is 184 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: not a big deal in America, and like this guy 185 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: wants to go back to like nineteen thirty. I mean, 186 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: it's just crazy. 187 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: It's really remarkable, especially when you look at I mean 188 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: how quickly they're moving on from their original justifications. You 189 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: look at the don't say Gaygill and everybody around him 190 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: was like, yeah, was like, well, this is only about 191 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: elementary school children, you can't possibly object to that. And 192 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: then immediately, you know, within a year, they're already expanding 193 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: it to high school kids and so forth. You know, 194 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: it's remarkable, And I think the thing that's particularly concerning though, 195 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: is that despite the rough start in the rough past 196 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: couple of months. You can look at that and say, well, 197 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: he's maybe he's missus moan and so forth. But I 198 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: think that's it's a long race. And he raised eight 199 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: point two million on his first day. That's a very 200 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: strong number. 201 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: I have a question for you about that number, because 202 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: one of the things that is a sort of hallmark 203 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: of DeSantis world is they kind of juice numbers, So 204 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: there is a he has this statistic whale. He says 205 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: that the crime in Florida is the lowest ever. But 206 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: the would they change the way they reported crime? This 207 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: could have been raised before and then announced when he announced, right, 208 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's easy to juice this number, right. 209 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: I think we won't know the details behind the number 210 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: until they file FEC reports and so forth. You know, 211 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: campaign limits. We don't know the exact breakdown. I noticed 212 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: that there wasn't anything about percentage of small donor. As 213 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: far as I could see, there wasn't like a we 214 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: received you know, X percent of the donations were under 215 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: two hundred dollars or something like that. So, I mean, certainly, 216 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: it seems like they don't really want us to ask 217 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: too much about how many people are donating as opposed 218 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: to how much was donated, so we don't know a 219 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: lot about that. But you know, even with that, he 220 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: he's got a decently sized campaign staff. He's still hanging 221 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: around to twenty around twenty twenty five percent in Iowa, 222 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: and people have come back from much farther than that 223 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: at this point in the race, right right. 224 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: There is like a horse race mentality towards the way 225 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: all of us deal with these political and you know 226 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: it's a horse race, because it's a race, right But 227 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: the one thing I wanted to sort of interject here 228 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: is that he's not running against a normal political candidate. 229 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: He's running against Donald Trump. 230 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. He's in a very strange situation in 231 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: some ways because more so than your typical sort of 232 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: clear second favorite in a race like you think back to, 233 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: for example, two thousand and eight, where I think for 234 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: most of it it was, you know, you had Clinton 235 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: as a clear front as a front runner, and then 236 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: Obama was probably like a number two. But when it 237 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: came to debates, et cetera, Clinton always received the most 238 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: fire from everybody on the stage. And I think one 239 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: interesting difference here is going to be that I think 240 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: the Santus is actually going to be the target for 241 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: a lot of the and I mean there's always some 242 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: extent of that. There's always the people who aren't number 243 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: two always want to become sort of the alternate option 244 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: to number one. But I think the added fact that, 245 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: as you said, Trump is such an unusual candidate and 246 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: a lot of the other candids are so worried about 247 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: alienating his base that they're going to even more focus 248 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: on attacking DeSantis, you know, and making themselves the Trump alternative, 249 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: rather than attacking Trump, which is so stupid. 250 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: Because I mean, the whole thing is just insane. 251 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredibly short sighted because it's like, Okay, when 252 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: you get to that point, then what what's your next step? 253 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: You have to attack Trump at some point if you're 254 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: going to beat him. And I do think one thing 255 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: that's sort of weirdly that could be sort of weirdly 256 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 2: to advantages the wrong word, But one thing that could 257 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 2: be weirdly influencing DeSantis' strategy here is that, as we 258 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: talked about, I think last simer I was on the show, 259 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: he doesn't really have anything else other than anger right 260 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 2: as a persona and he almost may have to attack 261 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 2: Trump just because he can't charm the audience. He's not 262 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: going to charm the electorate. He's not going to pile 263 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: them with policity he tails, that's for sure. His only 264 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: approach may have to be to be tough and angry 265 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: with Trump. I mean, you know, and again I say 266 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: that's not so much to talk about the horse race 267 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: so much as like I think voters should be aware, 268 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 2: should be looking out for where he tries to distinguish 269 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: himself on his record and where he tries to sort 270 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: of out extreme Trump and be aware of that threat 271 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 2: and what that threat presents to American voters, because I think, 272 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: for example, on abortion, you're going to see some very 273 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 2: interesting exchanges and it's going to be very revealing on 274 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: what both Santis and Trump just how far they want 275 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: to go, just how extreme they want to go nationally 276 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: in banning abortion and restricting women's rights. 277 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: Out trumping Trump is a fool's errand right, I mean, 278 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: people don't people didn't you know? Trump was not elected 279 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: on his policy. He was elected on his stick. I 280 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: mean that's the joke, because like he was a roarshack. 281 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: People liked him because he felt like he might you 282 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: know they liked him because they liked him, you know, 283 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: and then you have DeSantis being like you love Trump's policies. 284 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: Let me give you that with a less charisma and 285 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: less charm. 286 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: It's a disturbing pitch. 287 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: If it's successful, right, I won't be though, I mean 288 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: there's no chance. 289 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's likely. It's just I don't 290 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: want people to get too relaxed about him, you know, 291 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: too quickly. 292 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: And you know I wrote this piece which about everyone, 293 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: and all the worst people in the world mad at me, 294 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: including the Daily Mail. They called me a Nepo baby, 295 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: and you know, I said, he's much more dangerous than Trump. 296 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if we were going to slide 297 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: into fascism, this would be the way to do it. 298 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: You know, elect someone who's like Trump but good at it. Luckily, 299 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: he's so not charismatic that no one will vote for him, 300 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: but or he won't be able to break the Trump 301 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: spou but I mean he really does have you know, 302 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: if you were going to be hungry, this would be 303 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: the way to get there. Yeah. 304 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that you know you're talking about 305 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: as the efficiency efficient implementation of authoritarianism. You look at 306 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: the new story from my colleagues at NBC News that 307 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: it's officials in his administration, not his campaign, who are 308 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: soliciting lobbyists for. 309 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: Contributions a John Allen story. 310 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and that sort of taking that and taking 311 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: what is already a very gross practice of governors soliciting 312 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: directly from obbyous and then adding this apparats in the 313 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: state on top of that. I mean, that's something that 314 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: Destantis has done time and again where he just takes 315 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: things that are terrible and he gloms the state apparatus 316 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: onto it in very discouraging and frightening ways. 317 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just unbelievable. Thank you so much, James. 318 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back. 319 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: Of course, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed 320 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: it as always. 321 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: Senator Tammy Baldwin, as a junior senator from the state 322 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin. Welcome back, too fast. Pology, Senator Tammy Baldwin. 323 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: I am so happy to be back. We're delighted. So 324 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,479 Speaker 1: tell us about what you've been working on for veterans. 325 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: I think people will be interested in sort of the 326 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: machinations of how you get involved in what legislations you 327 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: do in the Senate. If you could, So if you 328 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: could talk us through some of the sort of more 329 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: nuts and baltsy stuff, I think that would be interesting. 330 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely. Well, let's start with I just did a whole 331 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: sweep through the state of Wisconsin. This is our Memorial 332 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: Day recess, and so I got a chance to have 333 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: input from veterans from all over the state several stops, 334 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 4: and one of the things we were focusing on is 335 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 4: newly passed legislation called the Packed Act, and that is 336 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 4: so long overdue meeting our commitments to veterans to have 337 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 4: been exposed to toxins in their service to their country. 338 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 4: So these are burden pits, these are agent orange, these 339 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 4: are exposures to other toxic fumes that so many in 340 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 4: multiple eras have experienced. And the health outcomes of these 341 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 4: exposures are varied but very serious, everything from respiratory illnesses, 342 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 4: hypertension to certain forms of cancer. And what happened prior 343 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 4: to this legislation is oftentimes a veteran would say, you know, 344 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 4: I think this ailment might be connected to my time 345 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: in uniform, my time in deployment, and they're basically often 346 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 4: told no, or you know, there's nothing going on here 347 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 4: that has to do with your service, and that has 348 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 4: been turned around completely with the pack Deact, and now 349 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: we are seeing veterans there's a review of the exposures 350 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 4: they might have had during their service, and they're being 351 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 4: connected to via. 352 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 3: Services now, whether that be the ability to. 353 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 4: Get their healthcare through the VA or a recognition of 354 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 4: a disability that provides some disability compensation. And boy, the 355 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 4: stories I heard this week were so powerful, including one 356 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 4: that is so important to remember that there was a 357 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 4: surviving spouse of a Vietnam veteran. He never had the 358 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 4: VA admit that his illnesses might be service connected, but 359 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 4: then after we passed the pac Act retroactively, they said, 360 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 4: of course this cancer and this respiratory illness was service 361 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 4: connected based on the new law, and therefore the surviving 362 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 4: widow and children in college all got benefits related to 363 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: his service. I mean, again, long overdue, but time to 364 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 4: reach out and try to retroactively meet our commitments our promises. 365 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: This dovetails with expanding the VA. Can you explain to 366 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: us a little bit about what that looks like. 367 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, first of all, when you pass legislation like this, 368 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 4: the you know, implementation is a big deal. Getting that 369 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 4: right is a big deal. But we just didn't have 370 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 4: enough staff who process claims in order to keep up 371 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 4: with this, and so the VA has been hiring more 372 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 4: folks that review these claims and that can make good 373 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 4: on this commitment faster than you know, if we hadn't expanded. 374 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 4: The other thing that's happening is internal to the VA 375 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 4: health system. You know, if we have arguably three point 376 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 4: five million veterans who may be eligible for services under 377 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 4: the Pack Act, that requires a big expansion of capacity. 378 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 4: And so right now a lot of the exams for 379 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 4: eligibility are actually being done in the community. There's VA 380 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 4: referrals to community doctors. And it's not without little bumps. 381 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 4: And I certainly heard about a lot of these bumps. 382 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: On the road, sure you did. 383 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 4: But it is a expanding capacity to be able to 384 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 4: determine eligibility and then get people in for both healthcare 385 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 4: and treatment for their conditions, as well as again reviewed 386 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 4: for eligibility for disability payments. What will that look like, Well, 387 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 4: it's happening right now. What I can tell you though, 388 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 4: as we speak at a time when their precarious negotiations 389 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 4: going on on how to avoid default. If what the 390 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 4: Republicans in the House of Representatives passed a few weeks back, 391 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 4: were to ever come to be or even close even 392 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 4: part thereof the VA would have to turn back on 393 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 4: all of the hiring they've just done and the sort 394 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 4: of expansion they've been able to achieve to implement the 395 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 4: pack debt, and we would be basically having an empty 396 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 4: promise for veterans once again. And so it is so 397 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 4: vital during these very precarious days to trying to avoid 398 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 4: default on the nation's debt, that we don't prospectively slash 399 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: and burn our ability to make good on our word 400 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 4: to our veterans, make good on our word to our 401 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 4: seniors and other vulnerable populations like our children. 402 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: So let me ask you, this bill is bipartisan. The 403 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: Pack Deact was, yes, So talk to me about that. 404 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: When we were passing it last year, there was a 405 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 4: strong coalition, but it actually came close to not passing 406 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 4: in the Senate. You know, in order to defeat a filibuster, 407 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 4: we need sixty, which means all the Democrats and at 408 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,479 Speaker 4: least ten Republicans or last year, yeah, last year, at 409 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 4: least ten Republicans because we were fifty to fifty and 410 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 4: it was precarious. 411 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 3: For a while. 412 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 4: There was a moment in which some of the Republicans 413 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 4: had reneged on their support and it looked like it 414 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 4: was going to go down, and then we saw veterans 415 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 4: come out and there was you know, there were people 416 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 4: camping out on the steps of the Capitol saying, you've 417 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 4: got to make good on your commitment. 418 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: You've got to see this through. 419 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 4: And their heroic activism following their time in uniform was 420 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 4: really critical to getting it over the home. But we 421 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 4: ultimately had sufficient votes from Republicans to get this Packed 422 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 4: Act passed into law. 423 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: And you also worked with JD. Vance. Can you talk 424 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: about that, Well, that's. 425 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 4: Been you know, he's come into the since all of 426 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 4: the Sin Packed Act, et cetera. But yes, absolutely. We 427 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 4: just introduced a measure together called the Cool Online Act. Okay, 428 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 4: so what does that mean? Cool stands for Country of 429 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 4: Origin labeling. So what I will tell you and everybody 430 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 4: knows is if you go to retail store, bricks and 431 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 4: mortar store, walk in the door and you're say, buying 432 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 4: a shirt, and you can look in the label on 433 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 4: that shirt and it's tell you where it was made, 434 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 4: made in the USA, made where you can look at 435 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 4: an object, a plate. You know, you smash your plate, 436 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 4: you're replacing it, it'll say where it was made. If 437 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 4: you shop online, there is no obligation right now to 438 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 4: tell where something was made. Now, I'm somebody who loves 439 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 4: to support Wisconsin businesses even if I can, but it'll 440 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 4: say made in America, not usually made in Wisconsin, right, 441 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 4: But you know, I buy local when I can support 442 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 4: local businesses. But I want to know where something I'm 443 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 4: buying was produced. And I've been fooled a number of 444 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 4: times online, especially during the pandemic where I wasn't going 445 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 4: out as much to stores, and I remember buying something 446 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 4: and it arriving, it was all excited and saw that 447 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 4: it was made in China and it was like a 448 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 4: surprise to me. I thought I was buying from a 449 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 4: US vendor. And anyways, we want this information available to 450 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 4: consumers online when they shop. And jad Evince stepped up 451 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 4: and said that's something that I'm interested in. You know, 452 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: he hails from a manufacturing state like I do, and 453 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 4: we want to support you as jobs. 454 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: When we can. 455 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, your women were the first gay senator twenty twelve, 456 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: first openly gay senator that's right. 457 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 3: It's an important distinction. 458 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: It's a very important decision. But you're working with jd Vance, 459 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: who has I mean, despite his earlier time being more moderate, 460 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: or at least appearing more moderate, he really embraced MAGA. 461 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: I mean explained to us because I think there's like 462 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: a relevant issue on how we live with our I 463 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: don't have any Maga relatives, but I'm sure a lot 464 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: of people do. How do you work with someone where 465 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: some of their core tenants are so not your own. 466 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 4: It's been a long journey in terms of my time 467 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 4: in politics. But let me tell you a story from 468 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 4: the early days, just to give you a sentence of 469 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 4: how I approached this. Back when I was in the 470 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 4: state Assembly. There's a very conservative Democrat, so he's in 471 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 4: my caucus. He's been around for a long time. I'm 472 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 4: like a freshman state assembly member. He was pro life. 473 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 4: There was a day that we were about to consider 474 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 4: some anti choice legislation. Typically Democrats stick together on procedural votes, 475 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 4: and so this was a vote to advance, and I 476 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 4: wanted everybody in our caucus to vote no so we 477 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 4: could stop the bill. He voted yes, and it was 478 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 4: a procedural vote. It wasn't on the substance of the bill, 479 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 4: and I was really really angry as a woman, and 480 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 4: I was going to march across that room and give 481 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 4: him a piece of my mind. I don't know who intervene, 482 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 4: but you know, nobody knew I was going to give 483 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 4: him a piece of my mind. 484 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: But Sunday came up, we had a discussion, etc. He 485 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: was gone. 486 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 4: I didn't have the confrontation. The next day, he as 487 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 4: a committee chair again a senior member, blocked a bill, 488 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 4: the advancement of a bill to institute the death penalty 489 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 4: in Wisconsin. 490 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 3: We actually don't have the death penalty in Wisconsin. 491 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: And he was my biggest hero that day because that 492 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 4: was something I never wanted Wisconsin to do. And it 493 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 4: was like that whiplash of yesterday. I wanted to scream 494 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 4: at him the next day. I wanted to say that 495 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 4: was brave, that was the right thing to do, and 496 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 4: it was against the will of the public. And that 497 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 4: was a lesson I never have forgotten, especially when you 498 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 4: work in a job like I do, and so bring 499 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 4: that many many years forward. You know, I remember when 500 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 4: I was running for reelection in twenty eighteen, running into 501 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 4: my first Trump Baldwin voters. 502 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 3: Like who is that? 503 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: Who loves And then later you. 504 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 4: Know, I was I ran into this guy who worked 505 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 4: in a foundry, in a foundry actually, and he yeah, 506 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 4: I saw him, and he said, you're picking on my 507 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 4: guy Trump, and I'm like, you know, he said, why. 508 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 3: Do you keep picking on my gut Trump? And I'm 509 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: like you sometimes he deserves it. And he got a 510 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: little bit of a grin, not much, but somebody came 511 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 3: up to him afterwards. I said, okay, so you're a 512 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 3: big Trump fan. What do you think of Baldwin? And 513 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 3: he said, oh, she has my support. She supports buy 514 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 3: America just like Trump does. And my job wouldn't be 515 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: here if we didn't have buy America policies, right. And 516 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 3: so you know, between my ancient history with my colleague, 517 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 3: my pro life colleague, and my current dealings with folks who, 518 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 3: yes and many many realms, have very different views, but 519 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 3: we find common ground. And I will have to say 520 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: one more thing though. 521 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that I don't speak out about the 522 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 4: things that are being said, especially when it happens in 523 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 4: committee and on the floor and I hear it. Sometimes 524 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 4: they say things, you know, to audiences or on Fox 525 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 4: that I never hear about because I don't pay attention. 526 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 4: But when I hear them in person, we have to 527 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 4: speak out, and I do. 528 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: I'm always of the belief that these people that a 529 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff is performative, the racism, the sexism. 530 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: But do you actually hear stuff from your fellow senators. 531 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: You don't obviously need to answer those if you don't 532 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: want to, But were you sort of bland? 533 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: Yes? 534 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 4: I actually remember one of my Republican colleagues coming into 535 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 4: a hearing after somebody had just been what is. 536 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: What would I call it bloviating? 537 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: Or do you right? 538 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 4: So it was one of his Republican colleagues, and he said, 539 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 4: I come to hearings because they're informative. Some people come 540 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 4: because it's performative. And I think we just saw that 541 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 4: he said that of his Republican colleague. 542 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: Maybe I see. 543 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: It less in the Senate that I used to do 544 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 4: in the House, which is kind of a little crazier 545 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 4: for him. But you know, I think a lot of 546 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 4: times they save their performances for cable news and for 547 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 4: other media where they can grow their following and raise 548 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 4: money and all of that sort of thing. And they're 549 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 4: a little more. 550 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: Tame in the chamber and in the committee rooms. 551 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 4: So I guess I don't see as much of that, 552 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 4: but I do see some, and yeah, it makes me uneasy. 553 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 4: And then you got to decide where you're going to 554 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 4: use your time to make your points or to respond 555 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 4: to theirs. 556 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: Both are important, especially if you're doing something like a 557 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: hearing where you want information, right, Can you talk to 558 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: us a little bit about like sort of you know, 559 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: you're running for re election. State of Wisconsin really a 560 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: split state, but a state that has really I think 561 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: been affected by I don't know, I mean that Supreme 562 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: Court election seems like a really important data point. Will 563 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 1: you talk to us about how that factors into your thinking? 564 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: Sure? 565 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 4: So, first of all, you know, the twenty twenty midterms, again, 566 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 4: we were that fifty to fifty sort of state. 567 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: We had a wonderful victory. You won our governor. 568 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 4: Won re election with like a landslide three four percent 569 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 4: right for Wisconsin is huge, right, Yes, he like doubled 570 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 4: his margin from four years earlier. So we re elected 571 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 4: Tony Evers. And then we had this heartbreaking loss for 572 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 4: our US Senate seat after the Republicsan spent I think 573 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 4: it was seventy seven million dollars in support of the incumbent, 574 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 4: Ron Johnson. Mandela Barnes lost by like less than a 575 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: percentage point, closest Senate race in the country. He came 576 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 4: closer to you know, upsetting an incumbent than any other 577 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 4: candidate this past cycle. But it shows this sort of 578 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 4: fifty to fifty nature of the state of Wisconsin. And then, 579 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 4: you know, just a few months after that, in April 580 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 4: of this year, we had our nonpartisan Spring general elections, 581 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 4: and these are mayors and school county board, city council, 582 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 4: but we had one statewide race and that was for 583 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 4: Wisconsin Supreme Court justice. And it just so happened with 584 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 4: our seven member court and a conservative justice retiring this racement, 585 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 4: flipping the ideological balance of our state Supreme Court, and 586 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 4: having just nationally experienced the overturning of Roe versus Wade, 587 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 4: and Wisconsin has a near total criminal abortion ban. People 588 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 4: sort of connecting the dots like that is a state law. 589 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 4: Maybe the state Supreme Court could hear a case about it, 590 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 4: and maybe they'd find it's unconstitutional under the state constitution, 591 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 4: and we could become a state that provides more fulsome 592 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 4: reproductive care than we are right now, which is, you know, 593 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 4: we're not. That race was about rights and freedoms, and 594 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 4: Wisconsin its resoundingly saying, regardless of party, we want our 595 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 4: rights and freedoms back. And so it was about abortion care, 596 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 4: but it was also about voting and gerrymandering and access 597 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 4: to the ballot box. And it's about undoing what we 598 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 4: saw happen during the Scott Walker administration, where voting rights 599 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 4: were curtailed and it was made more difficult, or collective 600 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 4: bargaining rights were curtailed or made more difficult, and so 601 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 4: I think collectively that bundle of rights and freedoms people 602 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 4: were like, we're sick of seeing us go backwards. And 603 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 4: all of that became a part of that race, and 604 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 4: you I announced my re election sort of in the 605 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 4: wake of that, arriving the title wave of that, if 606 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 4: you will, and certainly hope that we are going to 607 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 4: have the ability to say that was step one. You 608 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 4: got to keep involved to take the next step, and 609 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 4: the next step and the next step. Those don't happen 610 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 4: without voter involvement, activist involvement. You know, it's not one 611 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 4: and done. We got to keep on going, Sendor. 612 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: Tammy Baldwin, thanks so much, well, thank you so much. 613 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: I appreciate it, and I look talking again. 614 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: Hi. It's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for 615 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to 616 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: right now, is going to have merch for sale over 617 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies, 618 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: and toe bags with our incredible designs. We've heard your 619 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: cries to spread the word about our podcast and get 620 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: a tow bag with my adorable Leo the Rescue Puppy 621 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: on it. And now you can grab this merchandise only 622 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: at shop dot Fast Politics Pod dot Thanks for your support. 623 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: Kim Kelly is the author of Fight Like How, The 624 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: Untold History of American Labor. Welcome too, Fast Politics. 625 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 3: Kim Kelly, thank you so much for having me back. 626 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: I really appreciate it. 627 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. So. I feel like this 628 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: is like part of what's happening in Republican America is 629 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: that we're just like going back to all these things 630 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: that were like they you know, they're always like so 631 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: fetishizing the olden days. So here's something that you had 632 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: in the olden days, black lung. Let's start with what 633 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: black lung is. 634 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 3: Sure, so black lung just its official designation is CWP 635 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 3: Coal miners pneumoconiosis. It's an occupational disease that workers contract 636 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 3: when they're working underground to coal mine. They're breathing in 637 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 3: coal dust and silica dust and that is causing immense 638 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: damage to their lungs. And it's an incurable disease. It's 639 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 3: a really ugly, horrible disease, and it's also a preventable disease. 640 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 3: And basically, you smother to death. You stop being able 641 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 3: to breathe. And a black one diagnosis shortens a minors 642 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 3: life span by at least twelve years, if not more. 643 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: And that's probably an average, so it probably shortens other 644 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: people's life spans much more, right, I mean. 645 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, depending on what you have going on. It's really 646 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 3: it's just so ugly, and it's like you said, we 647 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 3: think of it as this olden times thing, like I 648 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 3: always think of that stupid quote in Zoolander. You know, 649 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 3: I've got the black lung pop. 650 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: Like well, And the idea was there was legislation to 651 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: protect people from having this past in the late seventies. 652 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Mind Safety Act like that made a huge impact. 653 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 3: It really brought numbers down. But we're in twenty twenty 654 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,439 Speaker 3: three and things that are not as they should be. 655 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: And so what has happened here? Who can we blame 656 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: for this? 657 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 3: More importantly, there's a bunch of people that I would 658 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 3: love to get five minutes alone in a room with 659 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 3: this issue. But essentially, the reason that black lung coal 660 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 3: miners Newicconiosis is having this spike and has been having 661 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 3: this spike for really the best past twenty years, is 662 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 3: that there's a couple of different things going on. But 663 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 3: like the most basic reason that this is happening is 664 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: that this is happening in central Appalachia, in places like 665 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 3: West Virginia, Southern Virginia, and Kentucky where the coal seams, 666 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 3: the famous Appalachian coal seams have gotten so much thinner 667 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 3: because people have been mining there for centuries now, and 668 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 3: so miners have to go through much much more rock 669 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 3: and sandstone to get to the coal they're trying to 670 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 3: dig out, and that rock is full of silica. Silica 671 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 3: dusk is about twenty times more toxic and deadly than 672 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 3: regular coal dust, and so there's so much more of 673 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 3: this incredibly toxic material floating around. There's so much more 674 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 3: of it too, because the advances in technology since the 675 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 3: seventies have been huge in terms of production. There's tons 676 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 3: of heavy machinery doing the work that before which is 677 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 3: done by people, and now you can mine about I 678 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 3: think a minor friend of mine told me the numbers, 679 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 3: like it takes about twenty four hours now to get 680 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 3: the same amount of coal that used to take two weeks. 681 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 3: Like the production is off the chain. And so there's 682 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 3: all this happening, and there's also a lack of regulations 683 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 3: that protect these guys, protect these workers. There isn't right 684 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 3: now a federal silicus standard for coal mines. There's all 685 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 3: this red tape like kind of bunched up in the 686 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 3: tornament of labor and in whoever it is in charge, 687 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 3: you know, who gets to dictate how we live our lives. 688 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 3: This is a problem that we've known about since the seventies. 689 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 3: We've known that silica dust is incredibly toxic, incredibly harmful, 690 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 3: but it just kind of got put on the back 691 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 3: burner for some reason. And now there's people my age, 692 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 3: I'm thirty five, there's guys around my age, even younger, 693 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 3: who are now dealing with this, this horrific disease in 694 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 3: a worse way. It's progressing faster because the silva dust 695 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 3: is more dangerous and more damaging, and so it's just 696 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 3: this it's heartbreaking, Like reporting this story broke my heart 697 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 3: meeting people my age who I know, you know, who 698 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 3: have kids who have dreams, who have lives, who are 699 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 3: now going to end up smothering to death in a 700 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 3: hospital bed instead of living the full life they deserve. 701 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: Is this like you know these regional bands where they 702 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: fought for less regulation and we're seeing results of this, 703 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: or is this just something that's been a kind of 704 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: blind spot. 705 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 3: Actually, this is tied to politics, and it is then 706 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 3: we can blame on Trump like most things in a way, 707 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 3: because this is this is an issue that's been ongoing 708 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 3: for years, since the early two thousands, and during the 709 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 3: Obama administration, they did try to work on a silicon 710 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 3: rule to address this issue, and they just didn't get 711 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 3: it out in time. But then the Trump administration showed up, 712 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 3: and even though he loved to talk and pretend like 713 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 3: he cared about coal miners and take photo ops with 714 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: coal miners and Appalachia his During his administration, he actually 715 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,959 Speaker 3: installed a former coal executive to lead EMSHA, the Mind 716 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 3: Safety and Health Administration, and when that guy was there, 717 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 3: he spent his time examining ways to make regulations in 718 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 3: silica less burdensome for coal operators. So he was basically 719 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 3: trying to make it easier for coal bosses to get 720 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 3: around regulations or to not have them at all. And 721 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 3: so if we hadn't had this Trump era and this 722 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 3: you know Republican bs, Oh, we care about coal miners, 723 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 3: but we care about business more situation, and we'll probably 724 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 3: further along. And there's probably people I know that wouldn't 725 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 3: be as sick as they are. But it all so 726 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 3: much of this comes down to who sits in the 727 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 3: White House, because agency is like the torment of labor, 728 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 3: and EMSHA like they're really subject to the turnover in Washington. 729 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 3: You know, every few years, a new administration comes in 730 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 3: and they decide what's going on. And if that administration 731 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 3: doesn't care about workers, doesn't care about public health, doesn't 732 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 3: care about upsetting, doesn't want to upset their coal boss friends, 733 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: then these things aren't gonna get past, and they are 734 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 3: going to make it through and then the next administration 735 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 3: has to play catch up. 736 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: I mean Cole I think of as expensive and bad 737 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: for the environment, but there still really is a major 738 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: business there, right, And can you sort of talk to 739 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: us about that? 740 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd bean in some places. Really it's in Appalachia, 741 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 3: in places like West Virginia especially, it's so entwined with 742 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 3: the not only the economy, but just the cultural fabric 743 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 3: of the region. And because that's the main extractive resource, 744 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 3: that's where so many people, not the workers, but the 745 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 3: bosses have made their money. Like there's been a concentrated 746 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,720 Speaker 3: effort in places like that to really boost coal. As 747 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 3: you know, this this great thing, this is our this 748 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 3: is our best hope. This is all we have. You know, 749 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 3: don't listen to those union people or those environmental people. 750 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 3: This is this is all we got. And you have 751 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 3: that rhetoric being amplified by the politicians and by business 752 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 3: friendly media. Like it's it's different in coal country, you know, 753 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 3: Like if you're not in that area, if you don't 754 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 3: know folks in that culture and that tradition, you would think, well, 755 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 3: why would anyone want to be involved with coal? Why 756 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 3: we need to get rid of it obviously, But then 757 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 3: you go into places like Mingo County or mate Wan, 758 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 3: places where coal is just so it's kind of the 759 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 3: only game in town, and you talk to people say, oh, 760 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 3: this is the best job I can get, like I 761 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 3: can make a decent living going into these minds like 762 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 3: this is where like I want to get this job 763 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 3: that otherwise there's what there's Walmart or maybe a meat 764 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 3: packing plant where I'll make walks an hour. It's it's 765 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 3: the same as in Alabama and the coal miner strike. 766 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 3: I was covering there for a couple of years at 767 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 3: Warrior met Like it's it's not always as as simple 768 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,479 Speaker 3: as it may seem outside of those communities, right because 769 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 3: if you have options, you're not going to go down 770 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 3: into a coal mine, right right, But that's assuming you 771 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 3: have options. 772 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you think the Biden administration should be. 773 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 3: Doing well right now? There is and I have to 774 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 3: shout out MSHA Chris Williamson, the new head of it 775 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,919 Speaker 3: of the agency. He's I like him. I think he 776 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 3: really cares and he's really trying to address this issue. 777 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 3: It's like his main it's his vicious priority. And right 778 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 3: now they're trying to promulgate a new rule, a new 779 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 3: Silicus standard that'll take the standard down to something that 780 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 3: matches the data we got in the seventies. Like it. Basically, 781 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 3: this will solve solve some problems, right if we can 782 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 3: get this rule through and really get these regularly in place. 783 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 3: And really what I would love to see is to 784 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 3: see Mship Agency and get a whole lot more money 785 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 3: so they can hire more staff, so they can inspect 786 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 3: these minds. I want them to be able to really 787 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 3: go after the mine operators who flow out these regulations 788 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 3: and try to get around it and actually find them 789 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 3: something that hurts that throw some mind bosses in jail. Hell, 790 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 3: you know, Like the administration does have the power to 791 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 3: change the circumstances here. They just need the motivation and 792 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 3: they need to throw some money at it. Like I 793 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 3: would love to see a public health campaign that really 794 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 3: emphasizes like this is not just something that happens to 795 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 3: your grandpa, This might happen to you, Like, there is 796 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 3: so much that can be done. I think that they 797 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 3: just need, yea, the political will and the understanding that 798 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 3: even if a lot of folks in these areas didn't 799 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,439 Speaker 3: vote for you, you still have to care and maybe 800 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 3: if you can show how much you care, that might 801 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,879 Speaker 3: change the way they see you too. You know, there's 802 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 3: so many opportunities. I think, especially in place is that 803 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 3: get called forgotten or left behind and painted as all 804 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 3: these trump owaysis like, people there need stuff, they need help, 805 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 3: they need resources, And I was in charge, if I 806 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 3: was a Democratic president and that weird alternative timeline, I 807 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 3: would spend a lot of time getting them stuff, getting 808 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 3: in the things they need. So yeah, well. 809 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: But the governor there, Kim Justice, was a Democrat and 810 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: is a Republican, and he saw so pretty involved in 811 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: the mining industry, right, I. 812 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 3: Mean, it just goes to show that you can be 813 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 3: from a place and of a place and still not 814 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 3: give a shit about the people that have less money 815 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 3: than you. Right, And this is not a secret people 816 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,479 Speaker 3: in Appalachia, especially in West Virginia. No, this is a 817 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 3: big problem. It's just not something that is getting much 818 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 3: attention outside of those areas unless you're like me and 819 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 3: end up on the coal miner beach somehow. Coming down 820 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,839 Speaker 3: for South Philly, I mean, it's it just comes down 821 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 3: to the influence of money and capital and anti worker, 822 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 3: pro business, just nasty policies that Republicans and the far 823 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 3: right and conservatives are all the same try to push 824 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 3: through like they don't care about people. You can go 825 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 3: up and, you know, talk about growing up in the 826 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 3: hollers and talk about how your granddaddy is a coal miner. 827 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 3: But if you're not using your power and your influence 828 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 3: to actually do something about it, then you're not worth 829 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 3: You're just not worth anybody's time. 830 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: What other sort of labor stuff are you seeing in 831 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: this country besides what's happening to coal miners. 832 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 3: There's a lot, right, I've ended up focused on this 833 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 3: very specific slice of the labor force. But I mean, 834 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 3: I'm on the Writers Guild Council, So when I'm not 835 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 3: paying attention to coal miners, I'm paying attention to the 836 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,240 Speaker 3: writer's strike, which is now I think in its third week. 837 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 3: We've been at it for a minute. It's been really 838 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 3: exciting to see that, especially because I've had a little 839 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 3: bit of an inside view. Right, like my union, the 840 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 3: Writers Gold of America East, in addition to our sister 841 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 3: union the West, been on this strike. We've been talking 842 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 3: about it for a long time and talking about the 843 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 3: conditions leading up to it, and I tend to I 844 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 3: represent the online media members of our union, not the 845 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 3: film and TV folks, So it's kind of a big 846 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 3: surprise to me too, hearing about some of the things 847 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 3: these people are dealing with. And I think there's just 848 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 3: a poll the other day that seventy percent of Americans 849 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 3: support what we're doing, support the strike, and I think 850 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 3: that's a big deal. So obviously, yeah, excited about the 851 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 3: writer's strike. 852 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: Are you seeing any movement there on the part of 853 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: the studio as part of the streamers. 854 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 3: I'm not proving to the negotiations, but it seems like so. 855 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 3: The situation right now is there's two other big Hollywood 856 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 3: unions that have contracts aspiring soon. They have negotiations coming up. 857 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 3: I believe it's a CGA and SAG act, and that's 858 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,720 Speaker 3: all happening in June. So I think the studios probably 859 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 3: aren't gonna feel like they need to pay that much 860 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 3: attention until after that's done. And I think that's going 861 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 3: to bite them in the ass because people be pretty 862 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,919 Speaker 3: fired up and we're seeing so much solidarity from other 863 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 3: union members in different parts of Hollywood already, Like, imagine 864 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 3: what it would look like if all of Hollywood shut down. 865 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 3: I feel like that would send a pretty fun message 866 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 3: to the people exploiting our members. 867 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: The anxiety that I have with a lot of this, 868 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: especially with the studios and the streamers. There are certain 869 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: things that the government could do and probably should do, 870 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: like with the AI stuff and the regulating the AI 871 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,240 Speaker 1: that is now sort of involved in this strike. 872 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 3: Yeah. 873 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: Do you want to tell us a little bit about 874 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: the writer Guild's pretty reasonable demands about AI. 875 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we want to ensure that they're not 876 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 3: just having AI written scripts that then they bring our 877 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 3: members in to rework and sound human. Now it's this 878 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 3: AI situation. This strike is really a watershed moment. Honestly, 879 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,000 Speaker 3: if they're if AI is coming for our jobs, they're 880 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 3: coming for years next, you know. Like it It's a 881 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 3: moment where we do we could see action from the 882 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 3: government to get ahead of this. We could see action 883 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 3: from corporations who realized, maybe this is not what our 884 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 3: consumers want and certainly not what our employees want. This 885 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,239 Speaker 3: is the moment, and I'm so hopeful that the ball 886 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 3: won't get fumbled. But also, I mean, there's not a 887 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,120 Speaker 3: lot of historical evidence for the government not fumbling the 888 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 3: ball in these types of moments. I don't think a 889 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 3: robot could do my job, but somebody who makes more 890 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,799 Speaker 3: money than me, who is control of whether or not 891 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 3: I get that commission, might think so. And then who's 892 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 3: going to want to read that? 893 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:36,839 Speaker 1: Right? 894 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 3: It? It's tradiculous. I saw like I can't remember the person. 895 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 3: I feel bad, But I saw such a good tweet 896 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 3: the other day about like, why are we, like, if 897 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,360 Speaker 3: this is the future we're building, why are we allowing 898 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 3: robots to why are we trying to automate art and 899 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 3: creativity and fun stuff instead of like why are we 900 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 3: using AI to make it safer for people to go 901 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,720 Speaker 3: down into a coal mine? Like that's what you should 902 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 3: use robots to automation for, not displacing workers and making 903 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 3: life worse for everybody else. 904 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 1: Part of how this AI gets smarter is by reading work. 905 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: And so if an AI reads all of the law 906 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: and order scripts, they will learn how to this this 907 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,319 Speaker 1: is any way the thinking. They will then learn how 908 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: to write law and order scripts better than the humans 909 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: who wrote them. So what these unions are desperately sort 910 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: of begging the studios to do is not to use 911 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: their work or to compensate them for training the AI. 912 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 3: Right, So, I mean that's just it's not fair. You know, 913 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 3: you spend all of this time creating this piece of 914 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 3: work and then you just plug it into a machine 915 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 3: and they use that to automate your job away. It's 916 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 3: asking people to contribute to their own well say unemployment 917 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 3: or the dissolution of their industry and their work and 918 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 3: their craft. Just makes me think of my friend Brian 919 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 3: Merchants wrote really great book about the Bloodites called Blood 920 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 3: of the Machine, and I think a lot about when 921 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 3: we wrote in that book where there's this moment when 922 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 3: workers were faced with the implementation of new technile anology 923 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,880 Speaker 3: and we're given a choice like, we can embrace this 924 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 3: and we could deestimate our tradition, our centuries of tradition, 925 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 3: and leave tons of people unemployed and desolate, or we 926 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,800 Speaker 3: could work together to regulate this and make it fair 927 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 3: and come up with something that works for both of us, 928 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 3: for labor and capital, for the employers and the workers. 929 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 3: And it took in that moment in history in England, 930 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 3: like the seventeen the hundreds, the government actually just sending 931 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 3: their equivalent of the National Guard to stop all that. 932 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 3: But we have this opportunity here to ask ourselves, just 933 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 3: because we can use this technology for something, should we 934 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 3: Who is this going to benefit? Is it going to 935 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 3: create something worth consuming, worth listening to, worth watching, or 936 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 3: is it just gonna align some people's pockets for a 937 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 3: few years until the next thing comes along. 938 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,280 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. 939 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having me on. No mo. 940 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,400 Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, my junk fast. 941 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 3: This chaos Caucus is still up to no good in 942 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,719 Speaker 3: these debt ceiling negotiations. 943 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:21,280 Speaker 2: Huh. 944 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: You know who's having a bad bad day? 945 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 3: Who? 946 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,279 Speaker 1: Chip Roy? Oh what a shame. He's mad as hell, 947 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: Mad as hell, chip Roy the only person less appealing 948 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 1: than Ted Cruz, which was ironic because he used to 949 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 1: work for Ted Cruz. There are members of the GUP 950 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,200 Speaker 1: claiming Democrats got nothing from the quote unquote deal Oh 951 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,919 Speaker 1: really in uncapped debt ceiling with an expiration date worth 952 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,960 Speaker 1: approximately four trillion two basically no cuts, a freeze at 953 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: a bloated twenty twenty three spending level, zero clawback. I mean, basically, 954 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: let me just say. The one good thing is that 955 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,319 Speaker 1: if chip Roy is mad, you know that the White 956 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 1: House is doing something right, and for that is a 957 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 1: very heartily takes our moment of fuckory. That's it for 958 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 959 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,399 Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes 960 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,720 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 961 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,000 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 962 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.