WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: Polyamory: When two just won't do 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.600 Hello, folks, it's Chuck here on a Saturday Select episode. 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.800 This is from April seven, two fift and this is 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:14.680 a very sexy podcast episode called Polyamory Colin when too 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.360 just won't do. I think you know where this is 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:23.360 headed right now. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:31.800 production of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:36.040 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck, 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.800 Bryan Jerry's over there, and this is stuff you should 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.760 not Let's try how all of our wives and girlfriends 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.680 are in the next room. All right, how are you doing? Man? 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.480 I'm good. I found this topic to be super interesting. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.879 And um, I should say up front that our our 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.560 joky nous that we always include in every podcast almost 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.440 um is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone who 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.280 was in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, and we're not here 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.399 to like just kind of look at your relationship from 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.760 the outside and poke at it and make fun of 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.000 it or light of it. If you're enjoying yourself and 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.960 everybody's on board and no one's being hurt, then we 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.959 always say to each his own, but um, from the outside, Uh, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.520 polyamory might seem like a very strange arrangement. Well, I 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.360 think to most people it seems like swinging. That's right, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.280 but it's not. No, it is not a lot of things. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.959 It's not cheating, right, it's not swinging, right, it's not Um, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.880 it's not polygamy. It's not what was the other one? Well, 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:48.840 it's not a lot of things. Um, it's not dentistry right. Uh, Well, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:53.040 the point is that we should it's not promiscuous nous. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.920 So what it is actually from? And I had no idea. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.560 I think my conception of polyamory was that it was 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.880 basically kind of swinging and it was based on it 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.519 was I got the the root couple thing, but um 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.919 that it was mostly like a swinging kind of thing. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.200 But from research, like I realized I was pretty far off. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:22.240 Polyamory is in a very odd way a form of monogamy, 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.720 but that it includes more than two people in this 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:31.280 monogamous relationship, while not necessarily monogamous either though, so because 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.560 there can be arrangements where you're allowed to go out 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.960 and do what you want, kickens with people. So I 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:41.480 ran across something that that's technically considered monogamish. As Dan 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.280 Savage coined it. That sounds like a very new word. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.400 It is new, yeah, I mean Dan Savage coined it. Yeah, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.880 but which means that I'm probably not gonna put too 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.680 much greedence. But in the from what I understand and this, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:58.639 I got this from a polyamory site called um more 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.160 than two more than two Great Side Franklin vow is 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.200 how I'm pronouncing his last name Vox. And I'm not 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:07.720 kidding when I say it's a great side. If you 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.959 are interested in exploring polyamory, it's super thorough and very 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.160 very helpful, I would think, yeah, just by going through it. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.280 And the impression that I got from him, from his 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.120 f a Q at least, is that it is a 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.200 It's like the people in a polyamorous relationship are committed 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.880 to one another, and that like they're rather in in 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.200 the same way that two people a couple come together 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.400 to form a monogamous relationship. If you if you take 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.280 that bubble and add another person or two other people 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.440 or something like that, but there's still that bubble of monogamy, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.680 of commitment of affection. UM that that is more close 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.920 to the the the definition of polyamory. Now in real life, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.840 I'm sure it's different, um, and that there are different 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.880 aspects to it or whatever. But supposedly that's what I gathered. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.480 But I think, uh, polyamorous couples say, why would you 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.200 even use a word like monogamy when it means that 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.840 polly means more than one word. Yeah, I think that's 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:19.640 that's the trip. And so Dan Savage come on monogamoush Yeah. Yeah, UM, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.880 I knew more about this UM just because there was 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.400 a show I don't know if it was HBO, it's 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:34.320 probably Cinemax that UM followed some polyamorous relationships, and so 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.880 I knew that it was not just hey it's swinging 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.120 or hey I just want an open relationship. It's you know, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.680 I'm gonna tryad I've got a man and there's a 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.240 woman and there's another woman. Or in another case it 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.919 was two couples, they all lived together, they were all 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.120 in a committed relationship with one another. UM. I mean, 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.520 we'll talk about there is no standard for a polyamorous relationship. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.880 It can really be anything you want that works for you. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:08.240 Sometimes it's bisexual, sometimes it's not. Sometimes um, the two Uh, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.320 it's really I mean, we could go over millions in 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.000 areas you really could. I was starting to break them 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.280 all down, but it's like, you really is. Whatever you 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.599 can work out between yourselves is polyamory. But the point 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.440 is is ummm, to maybe put it on less fine 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.480 of a point, but to get a little closer potentially 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.960 to a correct definition. Polyamory is not monogamy because there's 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.000 more than two people, and it's not cheating because all 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.919 of the people involved are on the on the same 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.000 page about what they're doing, what what they're doing, what 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.520 their partners are doing, what everybody's doing. Everyone's aware and consenting, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.440 that's right. So it's between those two things. So this 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.640 is the opposite of the E s P podcast where 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.080 apparently we never even said what e SP stood for. Yeah, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.400 a couple of people like, we're like, hey, catch what 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.320 ESP stands for? Can you tell us? And I'm like, well, 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.320 go listen again, and enough people said it that I 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.760 was like, oh, extrasensory perception, by the way, And then 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.960 we have just now defined polyamory for the last ten minutes, 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.360 so I think we're covered. I think we finally landed 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.839 on it. Though. Uh yeah, it's a very fascinating thing, 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:26.320 and um here's how it works. Well, Uh, I think 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.440 the let's talk about why people are polyamorous. Right, So 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.280 people who are polyamorous probably tend to think that monogamy 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.280 is not for them. And if you're speaking from a 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:45.160 like a evolutionary perspective, monogamy is kind of a puzzlement. Yes, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.520 should we talk about that. Yeah, So monogamy looking through 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:54.120 the lens of natural selection doesn't make sense evolutionarily because 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.919 it lowers a mail's ability to um, It lowers his 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.120 number of opportunity at ease to carry on his genetic 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.120 line and there for the species, right exactly. Yeah, And 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.440 it was long thought by some that um it was 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.440 monogamy came about so males could assist in the raising 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.160 of the young. Um. But there are some new theories 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.440 now that UM make that seem a little less likely, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.840 or actually a lot less likely. Um. And ironically, well 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.520 not ironically, but coincidentally they were both published. They were 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.960 both published around the same time, these two new theories, 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.080 they came out at the and enough time to really 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.400 kind of compete with one another. Yeah, because you know, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.120 when you look around the the animal kingdom, among non 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:49.160 avian there are more birds that are supposedly cockroaches that 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.520 are monogamous. But if you if you rule out the 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.560 birds and the cockroaches, specifically, mammals too. Yeah, about five 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.720 percent of the four thousand mammal species, give or take UM, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.560 only about five are monogamous or mate for life. Right, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.160 And so again, if you are strictly looking at it 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.480 from the selfish gene theory, like the whole point would 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.880 be to run around and copulate with as many females 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.160 as you possibly can so that you can have more 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.240 and more chances of spreading your genetic line and then, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.600 like you said, hence carry on the species. So to 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.800 not do that, to just couple with one other person 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.079 and and have maybe a few kids rather than thirty 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.120 with a bunch of different males and females. Right again, 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.480 it doesn't really kind of make sense. So they've tried 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.720 to explain this, and there are some theories, like you 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.319 were saying, one of them is that UM, if you 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.560 are a rival male, one of the things you have 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.559 to do to get with another female. I think that's 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.199 what biologists call it getting with UM you have to 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.239 kill her offspring because while she's nursing, she can't ovulate, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.560 and therefore you can't reproduce with her, but kill her kids. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.640 She's gonna stop nursing. She'll be sad. But then you 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.280 guys can have your own offspring. If you are a 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:18.480 male that's staying behind after you reproduce with a female, 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.400 then you have the chance to defend your offspring from 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.680 being killed by arrival males. Explanation from monogamy yep, And 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.880 that was in the proceedings of the National Academy of 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.800 Sciences and UM. They found that out by studying behaviors 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.480 of two d and thirty primate species. Uh. And they 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.440 felt so good about it that the guy who ran 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:43.880 the study said, this is it. We now finally know 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.240 for sure. But that's not necessarily true because there's another 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.880 really great theory where they actually published in the journal 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.360 Science and studied mammals, which is way more than the 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.439 other study. H. D. H. Lucas and Tim kluten Brock 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:05.240 of Cambridge University, and they said, Uh, it's really about 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:12.199 low density and females. It's that simple, Like when there 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.560 aren't many females, that's where monogamy happens, right when they're 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.679 spread out, because they beat up on each other when 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.120 they're in the same place. Females UM, so they have 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.199 to spread out geographically. Well, if you're a guy who's 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.920 just running from female the female, the female, you don't 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.960 know what she's doing while you're not around, so you 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.400 don't know whether those kids are yours or not. So 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.400 the best way to make sure that they're your kids 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.120 is to hang around and be monogamous. That's right. So 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:45.800 it's it's really similar to the other theory, the you're 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.640 staying around to defend the kids, and this one it's 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.880 a little less magnanimous. You're staying around to make sure 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.000 that the female doesn't run around on you. Right. But 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.800 then I saw a third theory that also makes sense 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.120 to UM, and that is the the idea of males 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:08.280 staying around to help raise kids was a strategy developed 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.640 by lesser males in the primate kingdom. So like the 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.520 alpha male, the top guys, they're having no trouble, they 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.360 can go wherever they want, they're getting plenty of action, right, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.160 But less nestman is like, hey, I can care for 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.640 the kids exactly, and that that's a strategy that caught 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.320 the attention of females who otherwise wouldn't have made it 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:32.640 with these guys. Because they're less nestment. And uh instead said, yeah, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.719 he's a dork. I can't stand his bow tie in 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.240 his shortsleeve shirt, but he does do a pretty good 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.760 job with the kids. So I'm going to be monogamous 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.439 with this guy. So three pretty good theories to explain monogamy. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.160 None of them hold water for polyamorous No, and and 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.680 everyone under the age of thirty five is now looking 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.280 up who less neestment is? It was? That was a 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.320 great reference, man, Thanks, I just popped up um. Alright, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.000 So the benefits, I believe, is what we were talking 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.880 about before we delved into the theory. And I've always 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.199 said monogamy too is not a natural thing, and that 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.199 the reward of staying with one person is partly because 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.240 of that. You know, you, it's not a natural thing. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.360 You sacrifice something in some way by being with someone, 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.400 but the payoff is rich. That is wise words, Chuck. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.120 So we'll see if I end up married in twenty years, 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.040 I'll confirm all this. Just kidding, of course, I will 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.400 be um. All right, So let's talk about the benefits. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.320 It is not just about um having sex with more 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.040 than one person. No, It's definitely part of it. It 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.240 is part of it, UM, But it is also about 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.080 um support in a greater you know, it takes a village, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.080 they say, So if you have a larger village, then 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.160 you're gonna have more support and care and love and 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.960 emotional support. UM. All that stuff right, exactly. And it's 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:04.720 not polyamorous relationship or group doesn't necessarily have sex with 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.719 one another everybody. UM. Sex is a big component of it. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:14.280 But you also have what are called poly effective relationships 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:16.440 where like, let's say you have what you call it 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.440 a triad. Is that a poly um? Yeah, right, but 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.640 that's what polyamorous call it. UM. So let's say you 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.960 have a triad where neither of the of two women 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.920 and a guy, and neither of the women are bisexual, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.160 but they're still in a polyamorous relationship. They would be 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.640 polly effective, like they have an emotional connection to one 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.000 another like a couple would, but they're not sexually involved 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.160 with one another. They're poly effective. That's another component of 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.920 a polyamorous relationship. So the whole thing is not just 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:53.600 satisfying your every sexual need with a bunch of different people. UM. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.200 It's also that I think they believe that you have 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.199 a lot of different needs that one person can't necessarily 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.439 satisfy beyond sex as well. It can be cultural interests, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.120 it can be past times, it can be what have you. 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.000 And so the idea behind polyamory is you find those 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.400 people in your life who combined make that single ideal person, yeah, 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.000 rather than placing all that on one single person for 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.400 better for worse. Yeah. I looked at an example on 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.840 the what was it two for one, no two or 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.240 more more than more than two, more than two, more 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.080 than more than two dot com? I looked at one. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.600 They have a lot of just stories and examples of people, 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.320 like real stories. And this one lady UM was married 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.400 to a guy who quite simply was not into a 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.760 lot of the things she was into. Um, she was 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.600 big into the theater, I think, in museums. Her husband 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.440 didn't like that. Uh. They developed into a polyamorous relationship, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.000 and she had another man that was really into that stuff, 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:01.200 an old high school boyfriend I think, and he uh 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.520 took up with another woman who had similar interest as him, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.600 and they all worked it out. And you know, people say, well, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.040 why don't you just leave the husband then? Who you 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.480 don't have these things in common within go with the 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.840 old high school boyfriend. That's a neat story. She was like, well, 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.120 because he's really needy and my husband isn't and we 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.840 have a lot of great stuff. Uh So it is literally, 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.840 like you said, satisfying all my needs through multiple people, 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.520 because who can expect one person to be that soul 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.960 mate that gives you everything you need? And these suckers 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.760 who are in monogamous marriages are just uh, sacrificing certain 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.960 parts of their life, like going to museums or whatever. 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.760 If it was this lady, So everybody, we're about to 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.960 satisfy all of your needs with this commercial break. Hey 0:15:44.000 --> 0:16:11.640 now all right and we're back. So chuck um. We 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:17.000 were talking about why people do polyamory, Right, do polyamory? 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:22.960 Let's talk about how polyamory actually works? Yeah, I mean 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.480 anyone in a marriage that's you know, things get more 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.240 complicated as you get older. So I don't mean to 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.880 talk down to people in your twenties, but relationships get 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.600 a little more complicated you get older and you get 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.240 more responsibilities. So if you're married and you're in your 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.880 thirties or forties or fifties, you know it is or 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.160 any kind of committed relationship you know it's logistically tough sometimes, well, yeah, 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.600 because you're like, I want this, and this other person 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.480 who you share half of your estate with says, no, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.760 I want this, or I want to do this, or 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.640 I want to do that, or I want a vacation here. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.800 They're exactly just in keeping up with schedules. It's all 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.200 very complicated. It's all compromise. It's like there's one big, 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.639 complicent compromise and you're compromising between two people's opinions. Imagine 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.280 just throwing in one extra opinion that differs from the 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:15.160 other two equal weight exactly. So that's basically what we're 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.919 getting at is, if you think your marriage is complicated, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.720 polyamory can be even more complicated. And they admit that 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.280 it can be more complicated, but they say that, uh. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.080 And this is really what I gathered from reading that 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.840 site in a bunch of articles, is that two for one, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.160 two for one. You want to meet a great communicator, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.040 go talk to someone in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, so 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.840 that's one of the chief requirements of polyamory. Gotta be 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.760 able to talk about all this stuff. I've seen it 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.760 put as you have highly evolved communication skills. Yes, I 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:54.520 would not a good polyamory man like I wouldn't last 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.359 two days. No, I stink. I stink at communicating. I 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.240 think I'm just doing line and it turns out, oh wait, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.879 I didn't say that, Chuck. Is this bothering you know? 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.480 But it's really bothering. Well, that's another thing too. Not 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.639 only do you have to be a great communicator and 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.320 get your point across and read other people and listen 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.320 to that kind of thing, but you also have to 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.760 be honest about your feelings. And one of the things 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:22.600 that polyamorous face, just like anybody else's jealousy. We did 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.960 a pretty good episode on jealousy a while back, jealousy 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:31.440 much yea yeah, with a question mark right, um, And 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.360 so they deal with jealousy and and and they deal 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.520 with it apparently ideally. Again, this is from more than 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.640 two dot com in a way where it would take 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.320 a pretty intelligent, calm person to approach the feelings of 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.560 jealousy like this, which is basically deconstructing it. So the 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.280 guy at more than two dot com I kind of 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.720 gave a good example where he was saying, Um, you're 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.800 in a polyamorous relationship and it bugs you when your 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:07.800 spouse kisses there are other spouse in front of you, right, 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.960 and he says the correct thing to do basically here 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.439 is to stop and say, okay, why does that make 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.719 me jealous? And if you are honest with yourself, you'll say, well, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.240 it makes me jealous because I worried that the other spouse. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.240 And by the way, in a polyamorous relationship, the plural 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.680 of spouse is spice. Yes, so if you're married to 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:32.159 two people, you have two spice um, which is kind 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.720 of funny. Sure you got a spicy I love life. Anyway, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.280 when the other spouse, if if you're worried that your 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.240 spouse is kissing his other spouse, he's going to think 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.680 that that spouse is a better kisser than you and think, well, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.120 that spouses, if he's better kisser then you, he wants 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.240 to be with him more than me. And if he 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.040 wants to be with him more than me, then uh, 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:57.800 he's gonna leave me. Is often rooted in your own insecurities. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.440 So what this guy was saying is, if you spell 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:02.240 this out, you realize that there's a lot of hidden 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.040 assumptions and your jealous feelings, and that when you confront them, 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.960 you will probably discard a lot of them. If you 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.840 find that, no, this is correct, this person really would 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.600 leave me because that person is a better kisser. Um, 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.440 then you would ask yourself, do I want to be 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.960 with somebody who would leave me because somebody else is 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.359 a better kisser? Yeah? Um, So if you can approach 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.000 this kind of stuff in this manner, then maybe you'd 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.240 be a decent polyamorous. Yeah. There's a lady named Terry Connelly, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.600 a professor of psychology and women's studies at University of Michigan, 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.280 uh Go Wolverines, and she's she's one of the well, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:40.760 not one of the only people. But there haven't been 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.800 many studies on polyamory. Um. One reason is because it's 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.440 underreported in a lot of cases because people, some people 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.200 may not like to be uh really out front with it. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.879 And for good reason, Yeah, for very good reasons. But 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.639 she did some studies and polls and things, and she 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.720 found that jealousy is, in fact, she said, much higher 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.879 end quote among monogamous pairs than non monogamous ones. And 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.560 I think for the reasons you just said, um, she 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:12.159 also found Um, she interviewed sevent individuals. Polly, Um, I'm 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.320 sorry monogamous individuals, hundred and fifty swingers, hundred and seventy 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.000 people in an open relationship, and three hundred polyamorous individuals, 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.400 and said that polyamorous tended to have equal or higher 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:28.480 levels of sexual satisfaction. Uh, and people in open relationships 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.159 tended to have lower sexual satisfaction than their monogamous piers 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.399 and polyamorous piers. So, and we should say open is 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.040 not the same as polyamorous. Now again, in a polyamorous group, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.400 the people in the group form a closed hole. Yeah. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.560 In an open relationship, it's like there's two people who 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.960 are connected, but they're also facing outward and the whole 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:54.080 world's up for grabs, basically, right, in an open relationship, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.240 you know, right, it's not so in polyamorous is not 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.120 an open relationship, and open really ship is not polyamorous. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:06.840 But a polyamorous relationship could include swinging from what I understand. Yes, 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:12.480 And did you know that swinging apparently started among World 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.560 War Two Air Force pilots in your families? You knew that, yeah, 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:21.600 because you supposedly if your husband died in battle, it 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.639 was just sort of understood that that woman would then 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.240 take up with another serviceman. Correct, I guess, but with 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.399 another married serviceman or what. I don't know about that. Huh. Well, 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.400 apparently it started out with like we called that wife 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.879 swapping in World War Two in the Air Force, like 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.680 specifically the Air Force, not like oh, American servicemen like 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.119 the Air Force. So I guess they know who it was. Um. 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.040 I think I've told the story about the Atlanta Swingers 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:48.959 Club was very close to my phone number growing up, 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:51.639 and we used to I was a kid. I had 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:53.159 no idea what it meant, of course, and I used 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:54.800 to answer the phone and people would be like the 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:59.119 Atlanta Singers would just be like my mom would just 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.720 remember it was so like troublesome to her, and she 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:04.480 kept the whistle next to the phone and would blow 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:10.040 a whistle into it. It's so funny to think about, yes, 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:15.000 so man, very funny. I still remember that number two? 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:21.200 Do you remember your original phone number? Nine? Isn't that crazy? Um? 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.159 I'm sorry for anyone who has those numbers today, or 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:29.320 to the Atlantic Swingers Club, which is still operational, I'm sure. Um. 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:31.920 All right, another thing we need to talk about our 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:37.200 s t I s UM sexually transmitted infection. You would 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:41.480 think that UM it would be higher in a polyamorous relationship, 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.600 and they don't have statistics that may or may not 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.200 be the case, but what they are adamant about is 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.760 lots of testing and lots of access to those results 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:57.640 and being super open about those results. UM apparently much 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:01.840 more so than UM people in monogamous relationships like new 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:06.639 new relationships. They found that people in new monogamous relationships 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:10.840 are often very shy about talking about their sexual history 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.560 and potential UM infections and things, whereas they're really upfront 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:17.920 about it in polyamory. Yeah, and and they kind of 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:19.879 have to be, and they kind of just make it 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:23.359 a normal, open thing. But that's part of that open, 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:27.480 honest communication. That's that's kind of a hallmark of polyamory. 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:32.120 And even two, it has a practical application defending against 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.280 S T I S. Yeah, they did. There was one 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.359 study in twelve in the Journal of Sexual Medicine that 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:44.760 found that UM unfaithful like cheaters, not like uh, like 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:47.240 a cheater, you're in a monogamous relationship, in your cheating, 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:50.960 they're much more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.359 and to keep it a secret than someone in a 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.119 polyamorous relationship because you go off in your cheat and 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:59.720 you keep quiet and you do something super risky, you know, 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:03.440