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Speaker 1: Ah beaut Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations, Military

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Speaker 1: News and straight talk with the guys and the community

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Speaker 1: Software dot Com on Time on Target. We're getting right

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Speaker 1: into it this episode because it's what's on everybody's mind

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Speaker 1: is the meeting in Singapore between North Korea and the

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Speaker 1: US UM And who better than Jack Divine honestly to

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Speaker 1: talk about this, the former acting and associate director of

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Speaker 1: the CIA operations outside the US from the late sixties

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Speaker 1: into the early nineties, now the founding partner and president

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Speaker 1: of the ark And Group. We haven't spoken in a while,

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Speaker 1: but this morning I woke up to your tweets that

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Speaker 1: led to your peace um on the Summit, which was

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Speaker 1: the Spring slash Summer Intelligence Report, which was up at

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Speaker 1: the ark And Group dot com. And uh, I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed reading your analysis of of this and I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to getting into it. Great Jack, What do you

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Speaker 1: make of this? On it? I mean, first and foremost, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's quite a bit of hemming and hauling

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Speaker 1: and see song of course leading up to the summit.

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Speaker 1: Now that it's actually happened, do you what do you

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Speaker 1: see as the real political substance or significance of this event.

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Speaker 1: I think this is truly a major event. I know

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of commentators today talking about it. We

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Speaker 1: don't have the details and what do we have? And

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Speaker 1: you know, you can you can put on a hair

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Speaker 1: shirt if you like on this issue. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm the father of six kids and you know, four

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Speaker 1: daughters I had to marry. It's like the process where

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Speaker 1: you first proposed. That's the big moment. You know you're

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Speaker 1: in the process, and then you do all the arrangements

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Speaker 1: of the invitations and everything else, and then you get

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Speaker 1: around and you pronounce your valves. So I think we

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Speaker 1: just had that big moment of you know, opening opening

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Speaker 1: the door and having an acceptance of let's really get

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Speaker 1: this thing done. Now. I agree the process is an

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Speaker 1: arduous one. It requires a lot of detailed work, but

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Speaker 1: you know, it is a process. And I think I

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Speaker 1: think the team that President Trump has around them and

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Speaker 1: its instincts are really good. And I think the second

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Speaker 1: thing is the preparation for this. And I don't want

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Speaker 1: to ramble on, but Trump's pulling out of the deal

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Speaker 1: is it really was a brilliant move because what it

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Speaker 1: does is tells and look, if if we're gonna play games,

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Speaker 1: this isn't going anywhere. So I don't think they can

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Speaker 1: do the North Korea shuffle this time. And I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to drive this harder, faster. But it's two

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Speaker 1: hundred forty sites out there that have to be looked at.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's not trivial. But coming to my wedding analogy,

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Speaker 1: I don't I think there's going to be a deal

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Speaker 1: exactly how it closes out in the end. I think

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Speaker 1: there's different options there. But I think this is a

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Speaker 1: very positive development. It's been orchestrated very well, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's unfortunate that some folks are depreciating it. This

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Speaker 1: is this We've been in similar spots, but we have

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Speaker 1: different a different game at play, and I think we

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Speaker 1: need to recognize that. So you see this as a

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Speaker 1: significant um baby steps are trust building in the context

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Speaker 1: of international negotiations. I don't. I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: Trump's style. I don't think it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: hundred baby steps. That's what the you know I said,

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Speaker 1: the pundits are saying. I think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a big step first only you know, on his his

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Speaker 1: and he threw throughout the war games, if you will,

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Speaker 1: a big gesture in our part. Uh, Kim, they're underestimating.

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Speaker 1: He's saying he's gonna d nuclearize. I mean that's a big,

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Speaker 1: a big concession. Not consider it's a big Demrcasian line.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's going to be fast. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this thing isn't going to process along the year later

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Speaker 1: we're gonna say, well, we can't get this done. I

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Speaker 1: think in the next three months, uh, we're gonna know

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Speaker 1: whether we have the makings of a deal. And if

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Speaker 1: we go beyond three months, I think we'll be happy

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Speaker 1: with the outcome. Um, but this isn't going to be

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Speaker 1: uh you know, trust and verified. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure what the word trusts me in this case, but

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Speaker 1: you know it's verified that there's going to have to

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Speaker 1: be conspicuous that are ambiguous and they're not baby steps.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a difference. I could be wrong,

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Speaker 1: but certain I could be wrong, but I think this

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Speaker 1: is going to have a different feel to it than

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Speaker 1: the you know, two years of preparation for an agreement. Jack,

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Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell us how you

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Speaker 1: see this. I mean, I think you've gotten into it

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Speaker 1: a little bit already. But how you see this event

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Speaker 1: as being different than some of the past agreements that

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Speaker 1: North Korea has signed two thousand and seven, I believe,

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Speaker 1: and several others where North Korea had promised to take

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Speaker 1: steps towards the nuclearization UM And I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: think it's a case that these are differently or is

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Speaker 1: that Kim Jong n is a newer, younger leader of

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Speaker 1: North Korea and President Trump. Of course, as President Trump,

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Speaker 1: he's a little more unorthodox than most American presidents. He said, orthodox,

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Speaker 1: but not necessarily in the business negotiation. Styled by that,

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Speaker 1: I mean the way he approaches the way business people

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Speaker 1: that are not just real estate but every business, how

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Speaker 1: they go about negotiating, which is somewhat different than UH

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Speaker 1: than the public sector that has or patient. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying one. I would say that the business one tends

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Speaker 1: to be more effective and it has some rough edges

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Speaker 1: around it. I do think in your points are really good,

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Speaker 1: and I think Kim is at a different point. I

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Speaker 1: think he really needs economic UH sustenance. He's making his

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Speaker 1: new pitch, to otherwords, his big pitches, right now, look, okay,

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Speaker 1: I got the nuclear deal done. Now I'm going to

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Speaker 1: rebuild the economy. So he's going to trade off some part.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have to see how much of the nuclear

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Speaker 1: deal to get the economic support he needs. I'm now

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Speaker 1: convinced from I've actually evolved time on this, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tend to underestimate how much countries can suffer economically. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not that easy to bring it to their DEAs.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that we got about their knees.

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Speaker 1: But he he really does want to change in the game.

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Speaker 1: How does he go back and say to his own people, look,

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Speaker 1: that was all this was all smoked. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: got a little relief for you for two months. But

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Speaker 1: Trump's not going to let them this. This administrator is

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Speaker 1: not going to let them do a shuffle on it.

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Speaker 1: He's going to have to start tearing down these facilities

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Speaker 1: and and and the missiles as well. Now, how do

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Speaker 1: you get to zero on this? That's the problem that

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Speaker 1: I'm sorting out. I don't see how and the Harry

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Speaker 1: Kim says, okay, I'm I'm destroying all of my nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: I mean, one thoughts across my mind as you work

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Speaker 1: out in the ranger where he parks his nuclear weapons

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Speaker 1: in either Pakistan or China. But I don't know how

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Speaker 1: he goes to zero in a hurry. I think he

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Speaker 1: can go from u Let's say he has thirty. There's

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Speaker 1: a dispute about how many. But if he went down

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Speaker 1: the five over the next year and of the hundred

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Speaker 1: forty sites he get rid of eighty, that would be

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Speaker 1: huge progress getting to zero. That's the big That's the

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Speaker 1: big one. I think if you track it side by

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Speaker 1: side on the other deals, this will have a faster,

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Speaker 1: faster track to it with conspicuous steps in the right direction,

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Speaker 1: or Trump will walk away. And I think him has

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Speaker 1: a pretty good fix of that. I mean, he learned

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Speaker 1: a big lesson, if that's the right way to phrase it,

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Speaker 1: by getting cute right before the summit and Trump, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, picked up his cars and walked away. And

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Speaker 1: I think Kim knows what's going to happen if he

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Speaker 1: does that. Is this all about posturing? Now? I would

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Speaker 1: also say if the deal collapses, the risk of the

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Speaker 1: regime go up, and you need to understand that. So

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Speaker 1: do you think Kim genuinely is ready to take steps

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Speaker 1: towards moving North Korea towards the market economy. I think

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Speaker 1: that may be a bit much, but I think he

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Speaker 1: is interested in opening it up. Yet remember where we

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Speaker 1: started in China years ago. It took a couple of

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Speaker 1: years to get it to a market frame of mind.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, it's such a poor country and

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Speaker 1: yet industrially, I mean, we go back to the fifties

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Speaker 1: North North Korea, it was more prosperous because of that industry.

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Speaker 1: And what you have now is the eleventh richest economy

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Speaker 1: in the world, just south of thirty eight, part well

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Speaker 1: one of the poorest countries right above it. So they've

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Speaker 1: they've given up their edge, and I think there's a

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Speaker 1: genuine interest at this point and changing and plus his

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Speaker 1: own people over time, they're looking at South. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all Autocrits have to worry about the fragility of the regime,

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Speaker 1: even when they look like they you know, they've got

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Speaker 1: to have been scared to death. So I think there

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Speaker 1: is a genuineness and this is different than where I was.

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Speaker 1: It's latest three months ago. I think he wants I

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Speaker 1: think he wants a deal once but all up and

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Speaker 1: part of this negotiation will be what's my low bit,

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Speaker 1: how how well can I go to get this get

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Speaker 1: this agreement acceptable? And Trump's will be how high can

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Speaker 1: I get this thing? And Trump has set a pretty

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Speaker 1: high bar on the nuclearization, so I then pass to

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Speaker 1: work towards that. I think that's the way this is

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Speaker 1: cued up, and I think it's different. Yeah. So last

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Speaker 1: night I was watching all of this and watching the commentary. UM,

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Speaker 1: I saw in Fox News that they had Gordon Shang on,

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Speaker 1: who I do like talk to the guy in person before,

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Speaker 1: expert on China and and really knows his stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's very objective. And I'm glad that in

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Speaker 1: your intelligence report you also got into the um, you know,

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Speaker 1: the upcoming elections, both the midterm elections and the elections.

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Speaker 1: Because here in Gordon Chang say this, UM, it really

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Speaker 1: struck something with me as well as seeing these two

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Speaker 1: men actually meet in person after all these months of speculation. UM.

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Speaker 1: And what he said was that this this all happened

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Speaker 1: because of Trump. There was no other president who really

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Speaker 1: had this idea on the table. And one of his

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Speaker 1: major campaign promises, I guess you would say, is a

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Speaker 1: d nuclearized North Korea. And it was not. It was

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Speaker 1: something that not everybody else was talking about, and Obama

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Speaker 1: did not make this a priority. Neither did George W. Bush,

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Speaker 1: and he did and that's the reason these two men

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Speaker 1: were sitting in a room together. And I do think

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Speaker 1: both you know what you were saying. As well, the

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Speaker 1: posturing of that we're not going to meet on your

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Speaker 1: terms and that we finally met on our own terms

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Speaker 1: makes me think that Trump has a very good possibility

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Speaker 1: of being re elected, and this being, you know, along

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Speaker 1: with a strong economy, one of those reasons I could

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Speaker 1: likely see that happening. It's interesting watching the news today.

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Speaker 1: I mean, many commentators are saying, oh, Kim got what

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Speaker 1: he wanted, the big display back in North Korea that

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Speaker 1: he's meeting with the president. But the president, Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: also got a lot of how this that really strengthened

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Speaker 1: his electoral position because it shows him getting it done

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Speaker 1: the place, serious on difficult issues. So, um, I think

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Speaker 1: this from a political point of view, I mean, hopefully

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Speaker 1: our policies aren't driven by pure politics, but it was

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to get it as a byproduct or go

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Speaker 1: for it, So there is there are risk on both

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Speaker 1: their parts by having this go south. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: if it blows up and it's a hoax and then

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Speaker 1: it doesn't go well for the for the president, and

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Speaker 1: if if Trump walks away and leaves him hanging there,

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Speaker 1: and then it's not good. And I think it increases

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Speaker 1: the prospect of instability in in North Korea. So, um,

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Speaker 1: one thing I would note that I find fascinating and

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Speaker 1: it might be interest to your followers. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: an establishment way about doing anything, and it's all about

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Speaker 1: the pre negotiation and preparing for the wedding and everything, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: but there is an advantage sometimes bringing a business and

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Speaker 1: and and saying well, no, that's not how the deal

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Speaker 1: gets done. You know, a deal gets stuck by the

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Speaker 1: principle sitting down, they get an agreement in principle, and

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Speaker 1: then the underlings work it out over the next few months.

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Speaker 1: And the question is what's the texture of that sit

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Speaker 1: down and how how well, ah, how well did they

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Speaker 1: size each other up? I think they also were underestimated

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Speaker 1: by the pundits and the preparation. The R side was

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Speaker 1: clearly prepared, new what they wanted and didn't want to

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Speaker 1: see happen there. Every move on this event was professionally orchestrated.

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Speaker 1: So I think this is a big, big event. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to bet that it'll end in the nuclearization,

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Speaker 1: but even the process, remember the momentum that that Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong had. Every couple of months, he's firing off a

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Speaker 1: missile with greater range and more weapons being produced at

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Speaker 1: the minimum, just slowing that process down, there's almost a win.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't make that my my going in position, but

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Speaker 1: even stopping it now, releasing the tension, this is a win,

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Speaker 1: clearly win. Yeah, I I would agree. And just watching

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Speaker 1: this last night, I felt like I was watching a

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Speaker 1: monumental moment, you know. And I think, if there is

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Speaker 1: that moment of you know, how Reagan had the Mr

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Speaker 1: Gorbachev teared down this wall. If if Trump has a

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Speaker 1: moment like that, it's something that people will remember for

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Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. I remember back seventies talking

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Speaker 1: to the director at the time, and it's interesting. In

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Speaker 1: the seventies, the number one, his number one stability issue

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Speaker 1: was North Korea and Obama. When he was brief in

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Speaker 1: Trump and the transition said, oh, look your number one

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Speaker 1: problem with struct This problem has been hanging like a

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Speaker 1: sort overhead for a long time. So if if we

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Speaker 1: can we can make progress on this meaningful progress, then

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Speaker 1: I do think we'll be remembering it for a while.

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Speaker 1: I'll be remembering it because the way it was orchestrated,

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Speaker 1: I think it's been done very well. There's a page

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Speaker 1: or two that should be taken from from the playbook

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Speaker 1: on this as how we approached negotiations in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and who would have thought that this would have happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a few short months ago. Know,

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Speaker 1: these guys were trading insults via social media and you

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Speaker 1: know other places. Uh, you know, everybody made note were

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Speaker 1: talking about giving them a bloody nose. Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there was everybody mentioned um uh Kim Jong un using

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Speaker 1: the word Doddard for Trump, and Trump was saying we

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Speaker 1: have bigger nuclear weapons than you do, yeah, and calling

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Speaker 1: him rocketmen. And we do, we absolutely. But yeah, people,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't never I mean Trump when Trump,

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Speaker 1: this is true with people, getna twitchy relationship with allies

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Speaker 1: with Frank, they aren't going to change over meeting in Canada.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, when the president Nited States is

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Speaker 1: sitting on the most powerful military, your folks know this

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Speaker 1: in the history of the world. UM. Yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: gives you a pretty good, uh, pretty good bargaining chip

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Speaker 1: when you get to the table. You know, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to fake a lot, you don't have to uh

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Speaker 1: exaggerate your strengths. I mean, you walk in the room,

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Speaker 1: this is the President United States, and whether you like

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Speaker 1: his style or not, that power is palpable. And I

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Speaker 1: think we underestimate that, and I think it's been underutilized

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Speaker 1: in the past. Um and I think people were confused

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Speaker 1: about how allies actually look at the relationship with the

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Speaker 1: United States, that it's based on America's real strength and

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Speaker 1: role in the world, and they're going to find accommodation

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Speaker 1: with it. If you know, North Korea does take steps

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Speaker 1: to denuclearize and they do have somewhat maybe of a

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Speaker 1: more westernized society. What do you think this means for

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Speaker 1: our relations or the interrelations with with South Korea as

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Speaker 1: well as China. I mean, this was again this morning.

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Speaker 1: There's our ally in South Korea is shocked. And first

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Speaker 1: of all, I don't think they were shocked of a

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Speaker 1: because there was a bit of uh, you can't have

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Speaker 1: it out in the press before the meetings. You just

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Speaker 1: have to have this thing kept kept off. But South

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Speaker 1: Korea is going to be our ally We're indispensable, indispensable

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Speaker 1: to them, and it's not like we're really important. We

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Speaker 1: are indispensable. So whatever one may think about any particular

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Speaker 1: line item, and that the South Koreans are gonna want

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Speaker 1: to have the closest, tightest relationship they can with us,

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Speaker 1: And if I were them, I would too, and the

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Speaker 1: South Koreans can. China is a different China is a

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Speaker 1: different story. I mean this is complex, um, and that

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Speaker 1: they are an excellent capacity for thinking long term. They

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Speaker 1: have a you know, a country that has nuclear weapons

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Speaker 1: on the border that's unpredictable, and you know, the Chinese

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Speaker 1: are long term thinkers. Strategically, Uh, they don't want an

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Speaker 1: unstable North Korea, but they also don't want to unite

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Speaker 1: Its Korea, which is pro West. So there's a yan

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Speaker 1: and yang on that. They also do not want an

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Speaker 1: economic collapse in North Korea because the refugees will flow over.

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Speaker 1: They also are interested in having a relationship an important

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Speaker 1: relationship with the United States and particularly in the economic arena.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of issues of play here. Um.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it's between Kim and this is another

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Speaker 1: very important aspect of this. This is between Kim and

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Speaker 1: Trump that we didn't bring in any other party, and

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Speaker 1: we did the six party talks, and I thought that

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Speaker 1: might be a way to go forward. Now they are

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Speaker 1: the six parties are meeting, but not the same room.

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Speaker 1: But I think for the Chinese not to be at

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Speaker 1: that table is a little bit unsettling to them. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I think the relationship with Kim is problematic for them.

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Speaker 1: So there are a small nation which always has an

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Speaker 1: unease about powerful neighbors. So I think the Chinese have

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Speaker 1: you know, I think on balance it's in they're interest

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Speaker 1: to see this turnout successfully, but they do have counter

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Speaker 1: and interest and uh, I have to stay tuned. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to bail all understand. We really appreciate

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Speaker 1: coming on for this quite We know you're in high demand,

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Speaker 1: and once again you guys can check out. No one's

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Speaker 1: more important to you, guys. Okay, all right, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you later. As a outrowing Jack, I'll get you know,

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Speaker 1: get his plugs in here. But yeah, you can visit

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Speaker 1: Jack on Twitter at Jack Divine Underscore t a g

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Speaker 1: uh the ark and group dot com and his book

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Speaker 1: is Good Hunting. Um. Yeah, I just obviously in high

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Speaker 1: demand today, Like that's the guy you want to hear from.

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Speaker 1: So I totally understand and I appreciate him just taking

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Speaker 1: a few minutes to hop on with us. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: was cautiously optimistic. Yeah, and that's how I feel, you know,

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Speaker 1: not that I have any um, you know, expertise on

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Speaker 1: the subject, but just watching the news last night. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny because we talked about this often. I rarely

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Speaker 1: turn on the network news, but this was one of

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Speaker 1: those historical moments where I wanted to see what was happening.

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Speaker 1: I've I wanted to see the commentary. And I really

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Speaker 1: feel like in my lifetime things like whether tragic or good,

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Speaker 1: the towers falling, Osan Bin Wadden being shot to me,

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Speaker 1: the leader of North Korea sitting down with the President

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Speaker 1: of the the United States is just a absolutely historical moment,

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Speaker 1: and I grew him. I I don't want to downplay

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Speaker 1: the significance of that. I mean, to me, that was

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Speaker 1: I mean it comes across as a publicity stunt, and

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Speaker 1: I mean it is a publicity stunt. It's a very

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Speaker 1: formal organized event in front of the cameras. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's what that's how it's presented. It's a it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily um like some sort of an insult to say

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Speaker 1: it's a publicity stunt. It's intended to be in the

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Speaker 1: public eye. UM. I guess I'm a little bit more pessimistic.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what the real substances behind this meeting, um,

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Speaker 1: and what's going to come out of that. And seeing

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Speaker 1: that the number of times that North Korea has pledged

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Speaker 1: to take steps towards d nuclearization, returning our you know,

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Speaker 1: our our pod or I shuldn't sy POWs, but our

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Speaker 1: m I A s who are still in North Korea

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Speaker 1: from the Korean War, all these different things that North

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Speaker 1: Korea has renigged on, Um. But also Jack Divine is

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Speaker 1: also have as a valid point. You know that Kim

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Speaker 1: is a new leader, he's a younger leader. He has

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Speaker 1: to show some legitimacy to the North Korean elites. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I I mean cautiously optimistic. Let's see what the

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Speaker 1: next couple of steps are. Yeah, I I guess I

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Speaker 1: look at this a lot differently than those previous agreements,

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Speaker 1: because I think there really is a huge difference when

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Speaker 1: you sit down at the table and you have a

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Speaker 1: frank conversation with these leaders. Uh, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: it's weird to relate this to our own lives, but

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Speaker 1: you know, you see how much drama goes on when

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Speaker 1: something gets um attributed wrong, you know, with social media

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Speaker 1: and and with a phone call, and I think we're texting.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a big difference when you know, two

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Speaker 1: people agree to sit in a room together a foreign

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Speaker 1: country and say, let's make this deal. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just think it's amazing that Trump set out to

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Speaker 1: do this and he sat down with them. And I've

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Speaker 1: been very critical of Trump on the podcast, but this

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Speaker 1: I think is all all around positive. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any possibility after this that that relations with

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Speaker 1: North Korea will get worse. At the very worst, they

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Speaker 1: will stay the same. And I think at the very

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Speaker 1: best it could definitely get worse. I don't see that happening.

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Speaker 1: I think once these two men meet and they've shook

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Speaker 1: hands and they you know, exchange good words with each other,

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Speaker 1: I I honestly don't see it getting worse. And I

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Speaker 1: think the public's perception, regardless of what some of the

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Speaker 1: media would say, is that even even liberals that I've

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Speaker 1: seen talking about this are very happy that this has

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Speaker 1: finally happened, and this is like a great sign of

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Speaker 1: diplomacy being alive. And well, it's it's it's a good step,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, I wouldn't see it as anything more

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Speaker 1: than a baby step. And uh but yeah, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's undoubtedly also other things going on behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: that you know, I'm not aware of. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wish, you know, President Trump the best of luck.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if he can pull it off, that is

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Speaker 1: historic and that's meaningful, and that'll it's almost difficult to

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Speaker 1: describe how big an impact that would have on the

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Speaker 1: Asia Pacific theater. Um. So yeah, let's see what happens next. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like we had a very different reaction because

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Speaker 1: my feeling, I'm not I don't get like sparkles and

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Speaker 1: stars in my eyes. Man, I'm not like that. But

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Speaker 1: when I saw this image on the TV of these

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Speaker 1: two people shaking hands, it is truly something that I

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Speaker 1: never thought I would witness. And this is something that

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Speaker 1: North Korea has always wanted. They've always wanted to meet

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Speaker 1: with American presidents because it bolsters their legitimates. And I

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Speaker 1: never thought an American president would be because all the

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Speaker 1: past American presidents were like, why do I want to

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Speaker 1: give this clown legitimates? And I think that this is

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Speaker 1: a step to show that the old guard, whether it's Obama,

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush, the people behind them, are not always

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Speaker 1: right and that this is like a new way of

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Speaker 1: doing things. That could be It could be the case.

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Speaker 1: It could be, yeah, I mean it could be just maybe, um,

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Speaker 1: a different personality, a different approach, maybe it'll make a difference. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was excited to see it. I'm excited to see

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Speaker 1: where things go from here. Um. And with that, we

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Speaker 1: do have another guest coming on this podcast, Dr Leonard Wong,

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Speaker 1: who we had on a few months back, and we're

428
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: having them on because there's been some recent updates that

429
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: really play into the piece that he wrote back on

430
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: the show. Dr Leonard Wong. Lenny Wang, and I know

431
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: the last time you said just called me Lenny, but

432
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: you know he is doctor Research Professor at the Strategic

433
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: Studies Institute at the U. S. Army War College, retired

434
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Army officer and has taught at West Point and served

435
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: as an analyst for the Chief of Staff of the

436
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: Army UM. So the last time we had you on

437
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: was episode three seven. We're now at episode three sixty.

438
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, cool number UM, but you co

439
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: authored a study with Stephen Jay Garris called Lying to Ourselves,

440
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: Dishonesty and the Army Profession. And the reason we want

441
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: to have you back is because in recent weeks we've

442
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: seen that the Army has struck down some of these

443
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: mandatory training courses that, according to you, Jack and many others,

444
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: was like a giant waste gun. And and I think

445
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: that you want to credit Winding with with some of

446
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: that happened. Well yeah, I mean just you please go

447
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: back and listen to episode three seven, but just a

448
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: recap really really quick before we get into it with

449
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: Dr wong Um. He did the study that showed that

450
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: one of the findings of the study was that there's

451
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: more mandatory training put upon our soldiers than there are

452
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: actual training days in the calendar. So they are overtasked

453
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: and not able to focus on, you know, their their

454
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: mission essential tasks. UM. The a lot of that training.

455
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: UM Secretary Mark Esper recently said the eyes don't have

456
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: to conduct it anymore unless they have to unless it's

457
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: important for the immediate tasks that are coming up on

458
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: their schedule. Um, so, Dr Wong, I just wanted to

459
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: have you on for a moment to talk about that

460
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: and uh and say thank you. I mean, it seems

461
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: like your study has really had an impact on the force. Well,

462
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: I'd love to take total credit and I probably will

463
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: at my next you know, annual evaluations. However, Um, you know,

464
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: we can't really say it was me. I think there

465
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: has been a ground swell and I really, if you

466
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: really look at it, I'm just a mouthpiece for what

467
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: people are thinking. And uh. And so that's really what

468
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: happens is I'm allowed to say things that other people

469
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: aren't because you know, I'm sitting here at the Army

470
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: War College where we have the freedom to do it,

471
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: and other people are being evaluated on how wealthy do it,

472
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, and so I just have the ability to

473
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: do it. And I'd like to point out it's not

474
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: just mandatory training, even though that's what we talk about.

475
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: There's also you know, the Secretary has gotten rid of

476
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: administrative burdens like having to do the trips before you

477
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: go on lead eve or the mandatory m staff on

478
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: the O we are that it was like you just

479
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: had to say you initiated it, and it became a joke,

480
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: a requirement that no one did. And but and yet

481
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: it was just another requirement. So it's not just mandatory training.

482
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: It's an entire look at what are we saying we

483
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: have to do that we're really not doing and it's

484
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: a waste of time and let's just get those off

485
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: the books. So it's it's very refreshing to see it,

486
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: and it's refreshing to see it coming from top top. Uh,

487
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, instead of waiting for those on the bottom.

488
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: Before it used to be, well, you guys on the bottom,

489
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: prioritize what you think is important. And it was you know,

490
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: the burden being for the people on the bottom to

491
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: report that they did everything but decide what really to do.

492
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: And so it's refreshing from the top saying we'll take

493
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: care of it up here. For for some of the

494
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I guess you civilians that might be listening to this,

495
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: I mean, what does this mean for for the troops?

496
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: I mean, what is the impact that this has on

497
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: their lives? And and uh, in terms of soldiering, really

498
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: is what all I'm getting at Yeah, I guess. The

499
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: first thing is that, well, you know, the Air Force

500
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: started this first. They did it back in two thousand

501
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: and sixteen, and they just started eliminating a ton of

502
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: stuff and uh. And what it does it puts back

503
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: what we call white space on the calendar. And for

504
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: like you said, civilians who might not understand that that

505
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: means is is that instead of someone filling in every

506
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: block on the calendar, now we see large swabs of

507
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: empty space, which allows the commander say, you know, we

508
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: really need to work and move into contact, we really

509
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: need to work on operating a tech point or anything.

510
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: I can now come up with my own training. I

511
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: can be innovative. I can learn leadership by actually commanding

512
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: my unit instead of taking my unit around everything that's

513
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: been told to do and so and white space. So

514
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: that's one aspect. The other thing it allows soldiers to

515
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: do is to spend time with their families instead of

516
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: always going to the computer to knock out the computer

517
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: program you have to do before you go on leave

518
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: to to uh do the mandatory training on human trafficking. UM.

519
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: It gives them time to get back to their families

520
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: because usually you don't have time to do that during

521
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: the day, you got to do it at night. But

522
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: then the other thing it allows us to do is

523
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: allows us to tell the truth. Before we thought they

524
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: were bogus requirements and so we said we did them

525
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: even though we didn't. Now we have to do them.

526
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: So now we don't have to say we did them.

527
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: And so that allows the integrity of the profession to

528
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: bounce back hopefully where we don't have to say we crammed. Uh,

529
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: you know, two nine seven days into two hundred fifty

530
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: six available training days. One of those things that I'll

531
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: never forget from my time in the Army was my

532
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: squad leader looking at me and saying, Murphy, never ever

533
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: lie to me. You tell me the truth, no matter

534
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: how bad it is, and you let me figure out

535
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: how I'm going to parse those words to our platoon sergeant. Uh.

536
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: It's just funny, funny thing that I remember as we

537
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: were talking here. But I mean, also, what you're getting

538
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: at is that when a commander sees that, you know, say,

539
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: our unit is the pointing to the Philippines for um,

540
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: for a training exercise instead of doing all that mandatory

541
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: training that has nothing to do with our mission. Now

542
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: I can say, Okay, my guys need to go to

543
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: the jungle warfare course, right, and we used to go

544
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: through a little kabuki dance of okay, you know this,

545
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: all this mandatory training. You guys just go off and

546
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: then come back and tell me that you did it,

547
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: and then we'll get on with the real stuff. Um.

548
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it stops the tarade of all the

549
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: mandatory stuff that everyone knew was not important. Do you

550
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: think there are more changes coming down from the Secretary

551
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: of the Army or perhaps the other branches? I think so. Um.

552
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's almost like every two we're surprised with

553
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: another update and um, something else goes and I think this.

554
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: I think what's happening is that, um, it's a cumulative

555
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: momentum going now of people saying, uh, we don't really

556
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: need this. We can trust leaders to include this in

557
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: their mission essential training. We don't need a separate block

558
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: of instruction for every stoke fight we've created in the army.

559
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: And so I think we'll see not just memos from

560
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: the Second Army, but hopefully this will give permission and

561
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: freedom to subordinate commanders to say, now we don't need

562
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: to wear PT belts while running on a treadmill in

563
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: the gym. You know, it's there's things that we can

564
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: make a decision on because now I feel like leaders

565
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: trust my judgment and that the It's also going to

566
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: lead to a boost and morale. You know, it'll make soldiers,

567
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, by putting the decisions back in soldiers hands,

568
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: it will improve It'll allow them to make choices, it

569
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: will allow them to take on leadership roles that were

570
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: kind of stripped from them by having all the decisions

571
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: taking out of their hands previously. And still I think

572
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: some pride back in the profession totally agree. I think

573
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: it'll you know, I think people will come home from

574
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: a from an exercise or for a deployment with thrilled

575
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: with the exhilaration of leading that they were allowed to do.

576
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm proud of it. I think it's going to be

577
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: a big boost. So it's an exciting it's exciting times.

578
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: And uh, I'll let you guys give me all the

579
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: credit you can. Yes, Yeah, that's what I was saying

580
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: because when I when I booked Dr Wang, yeah, you

581
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: were like, I don't know how responsible I have for that,

582
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: And I was just like, you're too humble you should

583
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: say it was all me. Well, you know, I think

584
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: it's it's just fun sitting back and enjoying the times

585
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: we're in as it's happening, you know. Yeah, well, I mean,

586
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sure you're not solely to credit, but you

587
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: did pen an important study that was widely read and

588
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure it had an impact. And uh, you know,

589
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate the work you've done. I think it's great.

590
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: It's it's enjoyable. So it's it's you know, but it

591
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: also shows how long it takes to change of culture.

592
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: A big, big, original study, the original study that that

593
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: said we are have overloaded ourselves wasn't done in two

594
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen. That just said it's now causing us

595
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: to lie. The original study was done back in two

596
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: thousand and two. Oh yeah, you're right. Takes a long time.

597
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: So and only old people like me can appreciate that.

598
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm just gonna say it's great to see

599
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: these steps happen, and that change does happen, but at

600
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: a very slow snails pay and positive changes do happen

601
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: in the military exactly. It's it's amazing. I mean, what

602
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: a case study of how long it takes for a

603
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: culture to change that we finally feel comfortable enough to say,

604
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't know why we do that, let's just get

605
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: rid of it, you know, kind of like finding yourself confidence. Yeah,

606
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: And and everyone was waiting for someone else to do

607
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: it because everyone was afraid that there would be the

608
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: only person that did it, and then everyone think you're weak.

609
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: And so you know, when the boss says no, let's

610
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: get rid of it, then I think it's it's a

611
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: great impetus for all the other momentum that we gotta

612
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: get going. So it's wonderful to see, very cool. Any

613
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: other studies that you're working for working on. Yeah, I

614
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: was kind to ask, I want to hear what some

615
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: updates on what else you got cooking? Yeah, I'm working

616
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: on something else. But I'm not going to reveal that

617
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't want everyone to get defensive

618
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: before I even say it. I know you don't want

619
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: to tip your hand. I got it. Well, thanks for

620
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: coming on dr One. Well, we love hearing from you.

621
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: And it's always good to have good news because I

622
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: think we often talk about all the things that go

623
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: wrong in the in the military. It is it's it's

624
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: it's good. It's it's good to point it out because

625
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: you're right. If we stay cynical all the time, we'll

626
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: never realize when good things actually happen. So yeah, good,

627
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: all right, you guys, take care, all right, thank you,

628
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: dr one Hey, I'm always here to support See you later, right,

629
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: take care. Um so great having two awesome guests on.

630
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that the connection might have cut in and

631
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: out all little bit there. Um, I'm gonna get that

632
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: ship looked into. But as you guys know, we're in

633
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: the new studio, so with that comes some issues that

634
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: will we'll fix along the way. But either way, UM,

635
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: I don't think we could have gotten a better guest

636
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: on to talk about the North Korea situation. So I'm

637
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: happy he was able to do that last minute. I

638
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: usually planned things a few weeks in advance, but Jack Divine,

639
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, when I saw his piece,

640
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: I said, we gotta get him on or his report.

641
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: I should say, uh, with that, do you want to

642
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: see Dennis Rodin crying over the situation? And I am

643
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: so stoked right now. I got this set to me

644
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: so many times. But it is funny to think, Um,

645
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: we were staying off and he's wearing his MAGA hat. Yeah,

646
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: it is funny to think that, like this is who

647
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: see and then went to because yes, we talked about

648
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: Dennis Roddin on this podcast, but I kind of joke

649
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: around about you're not running a major news or like

650
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: you think CNN would have like Jack Divine on or

651
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: like somebody you know important you could speak vine. Then again,

652
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: yeah I wouldn't. I would not say no to Dennis Rodman,

653
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: but I just do I look at him as an

654
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: expert on this situation. Absolutely not, but uh, here he is.

655
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: It was a long, fifteen minute interview, but here was

656
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: like the best part I watched it earlier, of him

657
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: getting very emotional and didn't even give me the time

658
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: up date. I asked him, I said I have something

659
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: to say from North Korea. He just brushed me off.

660
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: But that didn't deterred me. I still kept going back.

661
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: I kept going back. I kept going back. I sold

662
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: my lord and my trustworthy to this country, and I

663
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: said to everybody, I said, the door will open. I

664
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: remember you saying, I remember you saying, let me ask

665
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: you something understanding English. Always it's amazing, It's made amazing

666
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: it's amazing when I said those things, when I said

667
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: those stampedes. When I went back home, I got so

668
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: many film threats, I got so many thrists. I was

669
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: sitting up protecting everything, and I believe the doc career.

670
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: And when I went home, I can't and go home.

671
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't go home to hot out for thirty days,

672
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't even go home. But I killed my head

673
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: up high. Brother. I knew thing was gonna change. I

674
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: knew it. I was the only one. I never had

675
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: no one to hear me. I didn't know where had

676
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: to see me. But I took those bullets. I took

677
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: all that. I took everything everyone came at me. And

678
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm still standing to day. It's a great day for everybody,

679
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: say the fore Tokyo, China everything. It's a great day.

680
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: It is a great historic day. So happy you were

681
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: saying to me years ago that you thought this would happen. Uh.

682
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: And I want to let you be ready for me

683
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: to ask you another question. I know you're very emotional

684
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: about this. This is what I want to know. I

685
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: want to know, Well, you're an emotional guy. You you you

686
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: feel very deeply about things people have been around you,

687
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: understand that. Why did you feel so strongly that you

688
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: needed to make something happen for North Korea. There's so

689
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: many places you could have gone in the world that have,

690
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, a much easier path to peace than North Korea,

691
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: given the record of human rights abuses and other practices

692
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: of this Despoduct regime. But you chose North Korea. Why? Well?

693
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: You know, I felt, like I said, I was very

694
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: naive when I went over there. I didn't I didn't

695
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: understand and expect all the things I was getting what

696
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: I went over there. They said, do you realize what

697
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: you was doing then? Is when you went over there?

698
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: I said, no, I thought it was another one of

699
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: those those things. I was just doing, uh charity event.

700
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: I just thought I was going to play basketball. They

701
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: just treat the people. But it's gonna be so so

702
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: much more bigger than what I thought. And I felt

703
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, just listen to the people,

704
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: send the kids, send the people there, and just meeting

705
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: the regime came on you and and the whole marshals

706
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: and everybody. I just felt like I just fell in

707
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: love with the country from day one. And the way

708
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: he describes myself, you know, and the people around the world.

709
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm not in here. I'm not in

710
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: this for no money. I never started for no money.

711
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: This is not about this being the greatest person in

712
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: the world. To leave these two people together, he has

713
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. I just wanted to see

714
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: it get done so we all can live good together. Well,

715
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: here's the no more hatred, here's the first day. Let's

716
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: see where it goes. Let me ask you something you

717
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: talk about speaking with Kim Jong un? Does he understand

718
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: or speak English? And one thing about him do I

719
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: always say about him, he's he's more like a big kid,

720
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: even though it's small. He's only a big kid. But

721
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: he loves to have a good time. And I'm gonna

722
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: saying last night or this morning, this morning that he

723
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: was going to take his selfies and stuff like that.

724
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: And I was saying that this guy wants to be

725
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: around the world. He wants to come to America, he

726
00:40:54,160 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: wants to enjoy his life. He wants his life. Who's

727
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: maybe they mean this is it's going to happen. I

728
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: think it's going to change a lot. And I hope

729
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: the fact that President Trump can understand knowing that Kim

730
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: is trying to reach out. That's the big question. That's

731
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: the big question. I want to ask you about that

732
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: in a second, but let me just get an answer

733
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: to this. Do you think he speaks or understands English? Well?

734
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: I think he understands business business pieces. If you talk

735
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: about basketball, yes you understands that. So you think it's

736
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: about what he wants to talk about. Do you think

737
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: he's studied English? I can say one thing. I think

738
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: people know that Kim Young is not a dumb man.

739
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: I think he's understand from his grandfather, his father. I

740
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: think that he's trying to protect his people, to be

741
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: trying to protect his honor and it's up and everything

742
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: that has to do with his country. But like I said,

743
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: that's respect. That's all right. So I cut it out

744
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: from there. I don't think there's anything more. I mean,

745
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: it was a long, over fifteen minute interview, but it

746
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: was that was I think the best way too. Where

747
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: he goes he's like a little kid and also he's small.

748
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: You do you do get the impression like you know,

749
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: again goes goes back to taking a different approach with

750
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: North Korea like you want, or maybe if Obama just

751
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: went over there and played basketball with him, like everything

752
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: would have been cool, Like they would shoot some hoops,

753
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: have a couple of beers, you know, and things could

754
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: have been different. Man, we live in a very strange world. Yeah,

755
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't I think in Dennis Rodman's mind,

756
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: he feels he had something to do with these two meetings,

757
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: these meetings of the minds, And maybe he did, I

758
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, he was the first American to

759
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: go over there and have some type of diplomatic relation

760
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: with Kim. And even if it was just for a

761
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: basketball game, Dennis, I mean, I think it's known that

762
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: he has some substances, um, you know, it really brings

763
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: his emotions to the forefront. And you know, but I mean,

764
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: maybe on some level he did gain some empathy for

765
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: the North Korean people and and views them as the

766
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: underdog or something like that. But I don't. I don't know, man,

767
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: that this is He's a hard cat to make sense of. Yeah,

768
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: I have empathy for the people. Do I have the

769
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: empathy he does for the leadership? You know, I don't

770
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: really know where that comes from. But also he was

771
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: shown you know, you can see in the documentary Big

772
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: Bang and pyong Yang. He was shown this flowery you know,

773
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 1: fictional banda tour what North Korea is, and I think

774
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: he bought into that. Yeah, I mean North the North

775
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: Korea is run by a criminal government, the Kim family regime. Uh.

776
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: There's nothing admirable um to be found there. But you know,

777
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: the North Korean people themselves, they're not bad people. They're

778
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: oppressed people, and you know, I hope that they experienced freedom. Yeah.

779
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody has, you know, feelings of hatred

780
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: towards the North Korean people. It's empathy because of who

781
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: their leadership, yees. But the North Korean people, they've been

782
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: propagandized to think, you know, we hate them, you know

783
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: that we're we're looking to enslave them. So, I mean,

784
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: and because of Western media increasingly leaking into North Korea,

785
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: the North Koreans have their eyes open more now than

786
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: any time in the past. So that makes you know

787
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: that maybe that relationship, maybe there are some more opportunities

788
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: to build bridges there. Um. But you know, I just

789
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: think that when North Korea does open up, UM, those

790
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: people are going to be there, are you know, they've

791
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: been traumatized for generations and UM, the both the physical

792
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: and the mental health aspects of repairing that country are

793
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: just going to be tremendous. Yeah yeah, I I am

794
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: with you on that. Um. There's only one club out

795
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815
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816
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817
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Speaker 1: are listening, for a limited time, we could receive a

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822
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Speaker 1: channel dot com or the app which Chris, our web

823
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Speaker 1: developer the Philippines, who's a great dude. It's funny when

824
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: I say the Philippines, people might think like, we don't

825
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: have any relation with this guy, but like we see

826
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: Chris several times a year. Great dude is like a

827
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: huge part of what you see on this website every day. Chris.

828
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: Chris is the website. Yeah, I mean me and other

829
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: guys we provide, you know, the content, the writing, but

830
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Chris is the website absolutely like and and just to

831
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: layout of everything and how sharp everything looks, that's all

832
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: thanks to Chris. So I really can't state that enough

833
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 1: UM and the app. Just check out the spec ops

834
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: channel app. But the thing I said I was going

835
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: to talk about, we just this past weekend shot a

836
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: new inside the team room that will be up on

837
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: the spec ops channel. Glad you brought that up. Yes,

838
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: since there's photos out there, I think we could say

839
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 1: who was on it, what we did. Right, So there

840
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: is our own writer. The Odyssean is on there. Uh,

841
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: Danielle b z A, James Powell, James Powell, and Sam Fattis.

842
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: James Powell must died during the shooting. Yeah, I'll have

843
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: to let someone else explain his Uh well, I mean

844
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: he just gets overheated because of a past medical issue.

845
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: But I mean it did get pretty hot. There was

846
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: a lack of air conditioning. Talking about moving into a

847
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: new building where not everything is um you know what,

848
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: we were giving the space, but we were told there

849
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: would be no a C that day, and so Danielle

850
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: the combination of bright lights and you know, yeah, so

851
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: but anyway, yes, so what we're saying, well, Danielle was

852
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: their shoes worked for the d I A. Sam and

853
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: James worked for the CIA, and the Odyssean worked for

854
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: are UM. He was Army, Army Intel. And surprisingly enough,

855
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: this is the first time you'll see the odissey and unmasked.

856
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: I mean there's been there's been photos out there, but

857
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: I was pretty surprised to see that he was open

858
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: to doing this, uh, you know, in clear sight. Yeah,

859
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: but we shot a ton of footage. I mean it

860
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: was a long day, so I don't know how much

861
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: of this is going to be edited on the cutting

862
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: room for it was like about five hours of raw

863
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: and I felt like we could have gone much longer. Um.

864
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: But people, even people who listen to the podcast, have

865
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: been saying for a while, you need to do an

866
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: inside the team room of Intel guys. And they've said,

867
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, getting the odissan on there, who could talk.

868
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: Danielle could definitely talk, Uh, James and uh and Sam

869
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: Faddis word you know, aren't as long winded. But I

870
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: remember people saying like, this is gonna be like an epic,

871
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: like nine hour inside the team room, and sure enough

872
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: it lasted very long. Yeah. I'll be interested to see

873
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: how many episodes it gets carved up into. Yeah. Um,

874
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we're able to talk about

875
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: the other project that we worked on. You weren't there

876
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: for that. But with Alex Holland, Oh yeah, no, Alex

877
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: said something, I mean, it's uh the film, it's like

878
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: a pilot, right, Yeah, it's a pilot of them basically

879
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: playing video games. And I thought it was really cool. Man.

880
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: Um it was Alex and the Odissean and they play

881
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: about five or six different games and they go into

882
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: the background of it, and those guys have great uh

883
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: chemistry actually on camera. Um. I always like when Alex

884
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: is on the podcast, and they really worked well together.

885
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this.

886
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: But they have like great um comments to each other,

887
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: and I think once it gets cut down to its

888
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: best few minutes, people are gonna enjoy it. I I

889
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it, to be completely honest. With the inside

890
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: of the team room. I had worked with brand in

891
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: the night before on a power of thought and then

892
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: stayed up late editing that I was the first person

893
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: here to get all the equipment into that room. So

894
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: because of my lack of sleep at a certain point,

895
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: I seemed like you were exhausted. Yes, So when I

896
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: watched this inside the team room, it's gonna be new

897
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: to me as well. Because I was mentally not all there,

898
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: but you were a part of the inside the team

899
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: room on some level because you asked some important questions

900
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: and set them up for some discussions. Yeah. Yeah, I

901
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: was there to moderate a little bit. Once it airs,

902
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: I said to t O that we should get um

903
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: Sam Fatis on the podcast because I've never spoken him before,

904
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: and I thought he was great, really interesting background and

905
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: oh yeah yeah, maybe even play some of the best

906
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: clips for the audience. Sam did a ton of interesting

907
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: stuff working with the agency. Him and his wife actually

908
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: both served with the agency, which he spoke about. Yeah,

909
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: and at times they even worked together or worked similar subjects.

910
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: But you'd have to get into that with him. Um.

911
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: Very interesting guy, very knowledgeable person. Um. And so you

912
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: know when we filmed that episode, I mean he was

913
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: able to draw on, you know, his background working in

914
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: uh in Greece. Um. He was on one of the

915
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: first teams into Iraq, leading a paramilitary operation before the

916
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: invasion of Iraq. Um. So yeah, I did a ton

917
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: of stuff and um, yeah, he would be a great

918
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: guest to have on the podcast. Is he in New York, No, No,

919
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: he is. I believe he's down in Maryland. Okay, alright,

920
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: so we'll get him on I you know, because t

921
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: O was saying we should promote this out, and I

922
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: was thinking maybe the week that it goes up, we'll

923
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: do a new show with Sam Fattus and then maybe

924
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: do like a best of the audio, like uh an

925
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: hour from that so that people could hear it, and

926
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: then hopefully if you're not already subscribe, do an excerpts

927
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. Plus it's always nice for us when

928
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: we have a day that we don't have to come

929
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: in here. As much as we love doing this, uh,

930
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: sometimes it's it's good to get away from that. And

931
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: I could compile that before. But yeah, if you're not

932
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: already subscribed, there's gonna be so much great stuff on

933
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 1: that channel UM and it's cheaper than ever so spec

934
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: ops channel dot com. There's also now an inside the

935
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: team room Snipers up UM and I think that's up.

936
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: I believe it's been a while. It's up in its

937
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: entirety now with Isaiah Burkhardt and Nick Betts, Jason Delgado

938
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: and Nick um Irving and those are some favorites of

939
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: the show. All right, So I guess if that's it, man,

940
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: anything else that you want to cover before we get out.

941
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: Oh you know what I should also cover. I wrote

942
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: this down before we do. UM finish this up. Uh.

943
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: After we did Thursday's podcast, which goes up Friday, we

944
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: heard the news about Special Forces staff Sergeant Alexander Conrad

945
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: uh dying in Somalia. So I figured we we had

946
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: to mention that. So we we broke that story actually

947
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: about the the attack in Somalia and it was Third

948
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: Group guys, Third Special Forces Group. They were building a

949
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 1: new fob down in southern Somalia to try to you know,

950
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: reassert influence, governmental influence and capture that area from al Shabab.

951
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: And UM they came under a pretty what it sounds

952
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: sounded to me like a pretty substantial attack, receiving water fire,

953
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: UM technicals, machine guns mounted on pickup trucks. UM. And

954
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: so the one American soldier was killed, a couple others

955
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: were wounded. UM. So it's a pretty substantial firefight. UM.

956
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: The other big piece of news that you know I

957
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 1: was able to break in the last couple of days

958
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: was UM, the Communist West Point Cadet, Yes, getting other

959
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: than honorable discharge. UM. And you know, a lot of

960
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: different media outlets picked up on that actually and um, yeah,

961
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: so he is hanging out. Old boy has been hanging

962
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 1: out up at one of the S shops in UH

963
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: tenth Mountain Division. And um, I guess word has finally

964
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: come down after the investigation since like last September. Um

965
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: that he's getting another than honorable discharge. So he's out

966
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: of the army, won't be I don't think he'll be

967
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: able to receive VA benefits. I don't think he'll be

968
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: entitled to the g I bill. Um it could affect

969
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: his chance of employment. I mean certainly, I don't see

970
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: him getting any employment in UH in the government or

971
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: law enforcement or anything like that. Um So, on one hand,

972
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: you almost have to kind of feel bad for him

973
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 1: in a sense that like, But on the other hand,

974
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: it's like, Bro, you're not just a dumb kid anymore.

975
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: Like you know, you were served in Ranger Battalion. You

976
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: got kicked out. You know you you got kicked out

977
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: of Ranger School. You're lucky enough to get accepted to

978
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: West Point. You went through all that training and education

979
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: and then you flushed it down the fucking toilet. Um So,

980
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: I mean old boy brought this on himself. Um. But

981
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: on the other hand, now he's going to be a soldier,

982
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: former soldier, a veteran out of the army, in the

983
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: same boat that a lot of other guys are in

984
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 1: that he's gonna have trouble finding a job and finding

985
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: his way in the world. He's in New York, right,

986
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: Tenth Mountain Division is in New York. Yeah, it's up

987
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: in Watertown. But yeah, no, but it is. He originally

988
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 1: from New York. I don't believe. So okay, yeah, because

989
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: I think I remember in our writer's group, you you

990
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: found his Facebook profile, and I think I remember him

991
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: being a New Yorker. Actually I had one mutual friend

992
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: with him, and I remember who it was too, but

993
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: it was not a New Yorker. Actually it was a

994
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: frequent guest on Joe Rogan's podcast, was an Italian guy.

995
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: But I was like, all right, interesting, Um, but no,

996
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: I know that you you tracked down his Facebook profile.

997
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, well, I mean it wasn't hard to do.

998
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: I mean I think he just changed the name on it.

999
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah you know. Um, but that's that. I mean, it's

1000
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: what's done is done now. Yeah, all right, Well with

1001
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: that um Russian piece of course to um staff Sergeant

1002
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: Alexander Conrad. Um, you know what I did see one guy,

1003
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: I guess you would say negative response to UM. On

1004
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: the Power Thought, we talked about the death of Anthony

1005
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: Bourdaine and Kate Spade, and someone was like, you know,

1006
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: why are you focusing on this and not you know,

1007
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: a Special Forces soldier died and dying, And I think, UM,

1008
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it's focused on one or the other.

1009
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: You know, these are two people, regardless of if you're

1010
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: into them, who made a major impact on our culture,

1011
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, for Anthony Bordin in the food industry, and

1012
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't give a funk about

1013
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: Anthony Bordin. I understood, you have it. I understand. I

1014
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: mean I I like sympathize for his family and his

1015
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: friends because they're going through something, just like anybody else

1016
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: who has a family member that commits suicide. UM. But

1017
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't give a funk about Anthony Borden.

1018
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm not with you on that because I think mental

1019
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: health is an issue that really needs to be discussed.

1020
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: And when you see guys um, you know, or women

1021
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 1: like Kate Spade and Anthony Borden who in the eyes

1022
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: of the public. And we talked about this with I

1023
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,399
Speaker 1: talked about with Brandon. You know, have it all. They

1024
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: have all the money that they need, all the success families,

1025
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: and they still do this, but they're still miserable. Yeah,

1026
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: it's showing that this is not something that's just like

1027
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: a poor American problem or or even a military problem.

1028
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: There are people who are like the greatest entrepreneurs that

1029
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: end up going out this way and you know they're

1030
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 1: there are also people like people who have clinical depression.

1031
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,439
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what Anthony Bourdain had. Maybe maybe maybe

1032
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: that's what Robin Williams had. Rob Williams Nope, which I

1033
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: actually I've heard interviews with his best friend. Um, he

1034
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: had an early form of dementia and he was very

1035
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: confused about everything, and that's actually why I ended his life.

1036
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: He talked about it very in depth. Yeah, I mean, okay, well,

1037
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: another mental health issue. But I mean people like that,

1038
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean they're not killing themselves because they're pussies. Like

1039
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: there's literally something, you know, physiologically wrong, chemical imbalances. Um.

1040
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: So I mean, please don't take that the wrong way

1041
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: when I say I don't give a funk about Anthony Bourdaine.

1042
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean again, I feel sorry for his family. Just

1043
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: there are how many people committing suicide across America every day? Yeah,

1044
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: but I can't. I can't invent like emotionally invested. I

1045
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: get that better. And I don't think, um, I don't.

1046
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't think there should be confusion as to why

1047
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: do we focus on this guy is supposed to you know,

1048
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: allegedly because I know it's not probably the real number

1049
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: twenty two veterans today kill themselves. But still and the

1050
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: reason more than any of us are comfortable with. But

1051
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: but I get the reason why these twenty two veterans

1052
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: who are heroic, who fight for you know, our freedom

1053
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: is due to the fact that you know, it's an

1054
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: all volunteer military. Yes, very important. I I can't state enough.

1055
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I do this podcast, I understand, But with

1056
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: Anthony Bourdain or Kate Spade, this is someone that is

1057
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: in our culture, that people are invested in, that people

1058
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: feel like they know. It's like if a host of

1059
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: a podcast that I listened to regularly or a TV

1060
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: show I watch dies, you feel like they're there's someone

1061
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, and and so it doesn't it I get

1062
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: the impact that has for you. You don't watch anything

1063
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't watch And the fact the fact that they

1064
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: killed themselves also proves that you didn't know them, That

1065
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: this this personal relationship you think you had with them

1066
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: as a facade. You know. It's like how many people

1067
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: thought they knew Bill Cosby. Yeah you didn't. You didn't

1068
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: know him. You don't have a relationship with these people.

1069
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: And and I mean it's like years ago you had

1070
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: asked me about on the podcast about Charlie Sheen having AIDS,

1071
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't give a fuck, because

1072
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, he made his decision, you know, And I

1073
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: mean it's it's horrible and AIDS ravages people. Um, I

1074
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: think he had HIV right because he's still living. Yeah,

1075
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: you're I think you're right. I think you're right. It

1076
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: was it hadn't turned to AIDS. It was magic Johnson.

1077
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, the guys lived like this great life regardless

1078
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: of avigation. I mean, that's incredible his case. But I

1079
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: mean you make your decisions in life, Like I don't

1080
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: have any special sympathy for the person just because their celebrity. No,

1081
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: but anyway, my feeling was you can sympathize with many things.

1082
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: It was it's not just a you know, just because

1083
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about Kate Spade and um, yeah, it doesn't

1084
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: mean the troops. Yeah, everyone take a deep breath on

1085
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: that one, exactly. So, um, you know, if you were

1086
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: someone who was invested in those personalities, you check out

1087
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: the latest Power Thought podcast and we actually had a

1088
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: really I shouldn't say we be it's really Brandon I

1089
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,439
Speaker 1: chime in down again, but had a really in depth

1090
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: discussion about depression and actually got into the death of

1091
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: his friend Glenn Doherty. Um, so I get it. There

1092
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: are people who are invested in these personalities. You know

1093
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: Nick Betts, for example, I tracked him down while they

1094
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: were on their skiing trip shooting Big Mountain Heroes, got

1095
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: a picture with him. Thought he was a you know,

1096
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: all around great guy. So the guy I mean, my

1097
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: my friend, uh my former teammate James Hupp who killed himself.

1098
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: Dude was a fucking superstud. Like he was the last

1099
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: person I would ever expect. But you know, people get

1100
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: down in the dumps. I mean, well that's that's kind

1101
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: of putting him out. I mean more than down in

1102
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: the dumps, I mean you reached that point, you hit

1103
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: bottom and it's just utter hopelessness. Um. And you know,

1104
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm sad that, you know, James came to that point point. Um,

1105
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: he made his decision to um, to be frank, but

1106
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean I wish he had made a different decision. Yeah.

1107
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: The best thing that comes of this is that it

1108
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: opens up a discussion and it lets people know that

1109
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: it's not you know one certain demographic who's hit by this.

1110
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: It it's millionaires as well, which means it's everybody. Um,

1111
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: So you know, whether it's the twenty two veterans a

1112
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: day or this. If it opens up a discussion, gets

1113
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: people talking and finding solutions to be afraid to reach

1114
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: out and try to get help, whether it's a professional

1115
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: like psychiatric help, or just talk to a friend or

1116
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: a clergy member or however it is you roll, call

1117
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: your mom, call your dad, whatever whatever it is. You know, Um,

1118
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: especially like Jesus, I mean, somebody like James is horrible

1119
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: because I mean that guy he had. I mean I

1120
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: know he didn't feel like it at that moment, but

1121
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: he could have had such a bright future, you know. Um. Well,

1122
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: on a wider note, next episode, we should be having

1123
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: Alex hongs on, um, who I get to spend the

1124
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: last few days with here as he was shooting, and

1125
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: uh talk about his old Man Fitness column, because from

1126
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: what I know, it's like the most thing, the most

1127
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: read thing on soccer right. I mean, it's one of

1128
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: the definitely one of the most uh pinged critics. People.

1129
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: People love that column. So we haven't had him on

1130
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: and probably a good three or four months, so I

1131
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: figured we'd get him on we talk about it. I

1132
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: know he's been writing about different supplements and and uh

1133
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: writing about fitness from an honest perspective because there's a

1134
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: lot of scamming going on out there, you know. I

1135
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: once heard someone talk about the supplement in industry almost

1136
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: like the televangelists, you know, like those people are promising

1137
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: you a ticket to heaven. These people are promising you

1138
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: like the perfect body if you take uh, you know,

1139
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: this form of protein pattern. And I think Alex talks

1140
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: about as a guy who's been into fitness for many years,

1141
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: Um talked about it from an honest perspective. If there

1142
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: is no you know magic it take to getting the

1143
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: body that you do not until you know gene doping

1144
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: and gene editing. Brandon and then every one of us.

1145
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna be jacked and tanned in juicy

1146
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: all the time. That'll, that'll be a thing. You've been

1147
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: listening to soff Rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday

1148
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: and Friday. For all of the great content from our

1149
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: veteran journalists. Join us and become a team room member

1150
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: today at soft rep dot com. Follow the show on

1151
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at soft rep Radio, and be sure

1152
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: to also check out the Power of Thought podcast hosted

1153
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal Sniper instructor Brandon Webb.