1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington with our eyes on the 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: Truth Social Feed. President Trump still overseas, in fact, met 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: a short time ago with Vladimir Zelenski, which we're going 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 2: to discuss with Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall. But we begin right 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: now with d banking and the red headline on the terminal, 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: President Trump suing JP Morgan Chase. In fact, he just 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: posted a version of the story on Truth Social with 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: the headline Trump sues JP Morgan Chase and CEO Jamie 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: Diamond for five billion dollars over alleged political d banking. 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: And we remember, of course that this has been a 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: big issue for President Trump, going back to the campaign 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: trail when he singled out Brian moynihan at a public event, 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: excoriating him in Bank of America for those allegations. And 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: will note, by the way that Brian moynihan was not 20 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 2: invited to the big soiree with the President in Davos 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 2: on Wednesday evening. We'll get to some of the geopolitics 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: coming out of the World Economic Forum with Tyler in 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 2: a moment, but we do want to start here Tyler 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: five billion dollars. Have we seen any reaction from JP 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: Morgan Chase because this would fulfill kind of a long 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: running narrative from the President. 27 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: So they didn't immediately return Bloomberg News's call for our 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 3: request for comment, but we had heard from them before 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: denying that they've rejected business on ideological grounds. Now no 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: doubt JP Morgan Chase was likely expecting this because actually 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 3: over the weekend, President Trump had posted on truth social 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: saying that in the next few weeks he was intending 33 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 3: to file this suit. He had already advanced his claims 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: and his allegations that the bank had restricted his accounts 35 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 3: related to January sixth. Now, this has been, as you mentioned, 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: an ongoing issue for this president. I was thinking about 37 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: this when the headline crossed. The last time I had 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: actually seen Jamie Diamond here in Washington. I caught up 39 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: with him on Capitol Hill last year after he met 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: privately with Republicans on the Senate Banking Committee. The chair 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: Tim Scott, as you well know, had called them onto 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: the hill all the big bank CEOs to talk about 43 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 3: this very issue. So it is something that we know 44 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: that the administration has been following closely on. But of 45 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 3: course it also comes against what's been a broader backdrop 46 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: of perhaps escalation. I think it's fair to say between 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: Jamie Diamond and President Trump in just the past few days, 48 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 3: right Jamie Diamond's criticism of how the administration has been 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: pressuring the Central Bank, he's really rallied behind FED Chair 50 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: Jerome Powell. But then also in just the last day, 51 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: when it comes to President Trump's proposals to cap credit 52 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 3: card interest rates, I think the quote was that it 53 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: would be an economic disaster, in Jamie Diamond's words, And 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: this is something that the President's making a big plank 55 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 3: of his affordability platform. 56 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: Despite all of this news that you just summed up 57 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: so well, Ty JP Morgan shares four dollars a little 58 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: more than one percent right now, so investors don't seem 59 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: too concerned about anything, at least in the immediate term. 60 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: What the President is also discussing today in Davos, is 61 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: geopolitics today, Ukraine yesterday? 62 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 4: Greenland? 63 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 2: Of course, it seems like a long time ago already, 64 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: because the potential for a breakthrough in Ukraine is upon 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: us once again. As Steve Whitcoff and Jared Kushner make 66 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: their way to Moscow, President Trump meeting with Vladimir Elensky here, 67 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: that's you from earlier. 68 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 5: Their meeting with President Putin. 69 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 6: Today is you know, the meeting was good with President Zelenski. 70 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:35,839 Speaker 5: Will see how it turns out. 71 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people being killed last month, 72 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: that thirty thousand people killed, thirty thousand, mostly soldiers. 73 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: And it's really a war that has. 74 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 7: We're actively working to reach solutions, real solutions. 75 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 4: Today we met. 76 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 8: With President Trump and now what teams are working almost 77 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 8: every day. 78 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 4: It's not simple. The documents aim these war are nearly 79 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 4: nearly ready. 80 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 7: And Russia must become ready too. 81 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: Now, this all, of course, following President Trump's unfailing of 82 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: what he is calling his Board of Peace before a 83 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: big crowd in Davos, some twenty nations signing on. But 84 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: let's start with Ukraine, Tyler, Unless you can stitch these 85 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: two together, I don't know if the Board of Peace 86 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: would be involved in Ukraine. 87 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 4: This seems to be about something larger than just Gaza. 88 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: But what could these meetings bring in the next twenty 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: four to forty eight hours that would be different than 90 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: any of the other meetings we've seen. 91 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: Well, perhaps one of the connections that we can pull 92 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: to stitch them all together is that there has been 93 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: raising concerns that some of the issues over the past 94 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: few days have actually distracted from what is expected to 95 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: be progress when it comes to the talks in Ukraine, 96 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 3: most notably Greenland, with the Ukrainian President himself Zelenski there 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: accusing European allies. The redhead on the terminal was that 98 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: he tore into allies because they get distracted by other issues. 99 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: It was a pretty remarkable speech from the Ukrainian leader. 100 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: Now in terms of the border piece that also tied 101 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 3: into Ukraine because we know that Russian President Vladimir Putin 102 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: was invited to go and that has also stirred some 103 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 3: concerns from our allies and Ukraine itself in terms of 104 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: what the talks this week could potentially yield. As you mentioned, 105 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: the President Special ENVOYE Steve Witcoff, his son in law 106 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: Jared Kushner, are headed to Moscow, and we learned today 107 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: that there is a potential for trilateral talks, not at 108 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 3: the leadership level, which we've all been waiting for that 109 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 3: would signal really substantial progress, but on the technical level, 110 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 3: and that is considered to be progress in the right 111 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: direction that US, Ukrainian and Russian officials are all going 112 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: to get in the same room in the following days. 113 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: Special on Voice Steve Witcof told Bloomberg Television earlier this 114 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 3: week that they're about ninety percent of the way there. 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: We keep hearing that from administration officials because they have 116 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 3: made substantial progress when it comes to the security guarantees. 117 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: That's been a really big sticking point. But Joe, two 118 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: other things that we need more concrete details on. One 119 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: what does the rebuilding process in Ukraine look like, the 120 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 3: reconstruction process, where is that money going to come from? 121 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: And two, still big questions about potential territory concessions by 122 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: Ukraine and what is on the table and what the 123 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: sides are willing to accept. 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 4: Great job, Tyler, thank you so much. I appreciate the reporting. 125 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg, Washington correspondent with a lot of cross 126 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: currents coming out of Davos, and a pleasure to spend 127 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: some time with the chairman of the Householdland Security Committee 128 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 2: at this moment, Congressman Andrew Garbarina, Republican from the great 129 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: state of New York, is with us live from Capitol Hill. 130 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: Mister chairman, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Do 131 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 2: you feel like something might be different this time, that 132 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: we might be on the precipice of a breakthrough or 133 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 2: are we still humoring Vladimir Putin when it comes to Ukraine. 134 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 8: Well, I just I hope I agree with the President 135 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 8: that whatever whatever happens, we need to solve this more 136 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 8: soon and hopefully get some peace in Ukraine. I think 137 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 8: we really, you know, there's been so much bludheed and 138 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 8: there's just so much trouble happening with the Ukrainian people. 139 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 8: They deserve peace and they deserve our support, and I'm 140 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 8: willing to give it to them. 141 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: Well, I'd love your greater takeaways on Davos. This has 142 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: been one heck of a forty eight hour news cycle, 143 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: mister Chairman. My goodness, yesterday we were wondering in the 144 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: morning if we were going to be about to invade Greenland. 145 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: We've moved on, apparently to quite a number of other things. 146 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: We keep hearing these references to a new world order. 147 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: How would you describe it? 148 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 5: Well, look, and you know, back to Greenland. 149 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 8: You said, there's some good news coming out of out 150 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 8: of Davos. President said, no troops on the ground there. 151 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 8: He's working with NATO to come up with a solution. 152 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 8: And I honestly think I understand where the President was 153 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 8: coming from here talking about the importance of Greenland. China 154 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 8: and Russia have been showing a lot of aggressiveness in 155 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 8: the Arctic, and I understand as Homeland Security Chair, the 156 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 8: need to protect the homeland and Greenland is in a 157 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 8: very peculiar place, and making sure that China and Russia 158 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 8: don't have the free run of the. 159 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 5: Arctic is very important. 160 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 8: So I understand where the President was coming from about 161 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 8: mentioning Greenland strategic positioning. And I'm happy that we are 162 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 8: going to work with other members of NATO in Europe 163 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 8: to make sure that the Greenland is protected as well 164 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 8: as the European continent and the American continent. 165 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 4: Does this make NATO stronger? Does it weaken NATO. 166 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: We were told at the outset of this Davos World 167 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: Economic Forum that the future of NATO was at stake. 168 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 4: That was the Danish Prime minister. How do you see it? 169 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 8: NATO is extremely popular and important and has a lot 170 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 8: of support here in the US on both sides of 171 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 8: the our Republican and Democrat. 172 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 5: I don't think this was going to be the end 173 00:08:59,240 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 5: of NATO. 174 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 8: That would have been playing right into our adversaries hands. 175 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 8: We are everybody who's in NATO is stronger because we 176 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 8: are a part of NATO. And I actually hope we 177 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 8: can grow NATO and bring other countries in because bigger 178 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 8: alliance and stronger we are, and shows that we're all 179 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 8: on the same page, that we can do whatever we 180 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 8: need to do whatever we can to show that we 181 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 8: to our adversaries that they can't take. 182 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 5: Advantage of us and pit us against each other. 183 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: Well, it's really interesting to hear you say that before 184 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: we move along, and I'd love to ask you about 185 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: some domestic issues. Should Ukraine be one of those members 186 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: or is that a bridge too far? 187 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 8: Listen, if I think the reason Russia in Many Ukraine 188 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 8: is because Ukraine was not a member of NATO, and 189 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 8: if that's something that the other NATO countries are willing 190 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 8: to consider, it's something. 191 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 5: That I think we should all consider. 192 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 8: But again, to gain entry into NATO, you have to 193 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 8: have the support of other NATO countries. So that's something 194 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 8: that is up to the NATO, the NATO States to decide. 195 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: Well, I want to get right to the center of 196 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: your attention here as Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, 197 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: because I'm guessing you know more than most about what's 198 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 2: about to happen with the funding bills specific to the agency, 199 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: the Department of Homeland Security, because there's been a bit 200 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: of an argument between Democrats and Republicans about adding language 201 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: to put some controls or directives around the way that 202 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: ICE conducts immigration enforcement. Body cameras have been floated, some 203 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: other ideas like training when it comes to de escalation. 204 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: This seemed to be coming to a boil last week. 205 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: Maybe it's more of a simmer right now. This is 206 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, talking about this 207 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: just recently. Mister Chairman, listened to the speaker. 208 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 9: We'll have you respond, Hey, Democrats, I you have problem 209 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 9: with ICE, which many of them do, of course irrationally. 210 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 9: You should not take down the appropriations bill because there's 211 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 9: all these other areas of homeland security that are essential. 212 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 9: You know, you spend a lot of time down on 213 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 9: the border. You saw the abuses of the last four years. 214 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 9: We've got to correct all that, and you have to 215 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 9: fund the Department of Homeland Security to keep us safe. 216 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 9: This is not a game. We can't do a cr 217 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 9: on homeland security. Think of what will happen. 218 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: So I guess my question is will this end up 219 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: in a continuing resolution or will there be a deal 220 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: on homeland security funding. 221 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 8: We'll know that answer in about an hour when the 222 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 8: bill hits the floor. 223 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 5: I think there will be. 224 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 8: I think you know, there was a four way agreement 225 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 8: amongst the appropriators and the leadership, both Republican and Democrat, 226 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 8: that helped draft this Homeland Security appropriations bill. I think 227 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 8: it will pass with by Parson support. I just might 228 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 8: not have overwhelmingly by parts and support, but it still 229 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 8: will have by pars and support. 230 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 5: And I agree with the Speaker. 231 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 8: Doing a continuing resolution on the Homeland Security bill alone 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 8: just gives more power. It takes it away from Congress 233 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 8: and gives it more to the administration. And I think 234 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 8: you know, we don't want to shut down the Department 235 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 8: of Homeland Security by not passing anything, because then you're 236 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 8: shutting down the Cybersecurity Information Security Agency, You're shutting down 237 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 8: We're not going to be able to pay our transportation 238 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 8: security officers at the airports. I mean, there's a lot 239 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 8: of FEMA as another agency that would be affected. 240 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 5: There are a lot of agencies that fall. 241 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 8: Into Department Homeland Security that don't deal with ICE that 242 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 8: would be affected by a shutdown for the Department. 243 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 5: So I'm hoping the bill passes. It is a negotiated, four. 244 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 8: Way, agreed upon bipartisan bill, and I hope it passes 245 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 8: in about an hour. 246 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: You're not expecting a shutdown, though, right, I mean, your 247 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: worst case scenario is a CR for Homeland. 248 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 8: I listen, worst case scenario was probably a shutdown for Homeland, 249 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 8: But I don't anticipate that happening. I really do hope 250 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 8: that everything does passes today and it all gets passing 251 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 8: the set of next week and the President can sign 252 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 8: it before the thirtieth. But again, you know, if a 253 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 8: CR has to happen, it just gives more power to 254 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 8: the administration to move money around, which is not you 255 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 8: know what Congress wants to pay appropriations bills. 256 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 5: This is what we want to do. 257 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 8: This is what we've we all worked very hard to do, 258 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 8: and it is it is very important to get this bill, 259 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 8: this bill across the finish linecause it's not just about 260 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 8: money and funding agencies. 261 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,239 Speaker 5: There are extensions. 262 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 8: There are authorities that are being extended under this bill 263 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 8: that are very important to homeland security. 264 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: Let's go to New York for a couple items, mister Chairman. 265 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 2: A judge in Manhattan has ruled that Congressman Malia Takas's 266 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: district on Staten Island is unconstitutional and should be redrawn. 267 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 4: I know this is going to an appeal, But are 268 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 4: you concerned about this? 269 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 10: Yeah? 270 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 5: Absolutely. 271 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 8: I mean it's it's amazing that the Democrats sue on 272 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 8: maps that they just approved overwhelmly and was signed into 273 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 8: law by Democratic governor and a super majority in both 274 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 8: the Democratic super majority both the Assembly in the Senate. 275 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 5: But I imagine they'll be an appeal. 276 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 8: The judge directed it to go back to the independent 277 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 8: re Districting Commission I believe, to draw maps by the sixth. 278 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 5: You know, this is not the normal process. 279 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 8: Our constitution actually prohibits mid decade redistricting. So I don't 280 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 8: know how this is going to last as well as 281 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 8: petitions start soon in New York to get on the ballot. 282 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 8: So if this case is ongoing, I mean, I know 283 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 8: there's there's precedent, there's federal case law precedent that would 284 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 8: stop any redistricting once petitions are out on the street 285 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 8: and the nomination of a candidate is happening. 286 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 5: So I don't know what's going to happen. 287 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 8: I don't know if I don't know how they can 288 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 8: delimit it to just one district, you know, because they 289 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 8: developed these census tracks and everything to to make sure 290 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 8: every congressional district in New York has the same exact population. 291 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 8: So this is not something that can be done by 292 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 8: the February sixth deadline that the judge put in his 293 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 8: audio say. So I anticipate an appeal. I don't think 294 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 8: there'll be new districts. But I find it laughable that 295 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 8: they're suing on maps. The Democrats are suing on maps 296 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 8: that they created last year. 297 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: Well, we'll find out together where this is going. I 298 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: appreciate your weighing in on it, mister Chairman. Lastly, I 299 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: want to ask you about your nine to eleven Responder 300 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 2: and Survivor Health Funding Correction Act. Will this see action 301 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: on the floor if that aforementioned DHS funding bill does 302 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: not come together the way you want. 303 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 5: Yes. 304 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 8: Luckily, the fix for the nine to eleven world traits 305 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 8: that are health program is in the other government funding 306 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 8: bill that we'll also be taking up today, which has 307 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 8: a lot of bipartisan support, and it's a four way 308 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 8: agreement that would not have been possible without the Speaker, 309 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 8: without Senator Jillibrand and my other colleagues in New York. 310 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 8: It is a win for the survivors of the nine 311 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 8: to eleven terrorist attacks and for all those people who 312 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 8: were there on the pile the days and weeks after 313 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 8: who have gotten sick. We have for a decade and 314 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 8: a half we have advocates, unfortunately, come back down to 315 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 8: Congress to beg for money. 316 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 5: It is not right. 317 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 8: This is care that they deserve, this is care that 318 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 8: they've earned, and I'm very proud to have this bill 319 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 8: being passed today. 320 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 4: Congressman, thank you. 321 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: Andrew Garbarina, the Republican from New York, Chairman household manned 322 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: Security Only, I'm Bloomberg. 323 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 4: Stay with us. On Balance of Power. We'll have much 324 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 4: more coming up after this. 325 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 326 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 327 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 328 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 329 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 330 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: Greenland was so yesterday, Jack Smith is so today. We've 331 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: got our eyes on this testimony on Capitol Hill. They 332 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: just brought in the pizzas. We the pizza, big stacks 333 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: of the pizza boxes going into the Judiciary committee. So 334 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: we're going into overtime or something. You know who was 335 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: spotted on the Capitol today right outside the hearing room 336 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 2: Jack Smith inside the hearing room house Judiciary and Stuart 337 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: Rose is hanging out in the hallway, the founder of 338 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 2: the Oathkeepers, previously convicted of seditious conspiracy, sentence to eighteen 339 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: years in prison, of course until the President pardoned him. 340 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: The President is posting, by the way, he's got to 341 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: be watching this Jack Smith testimony. What else are you 342 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: going to watch? Under the Balance of Power? Deranged Jack 343 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 2: Smith is being decimated before Congress. He says it was 344 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: over when they discussed his past failures and unfair prosecutions. 345 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: He destroyed many lives under the guise of legitimacy. Jack 346 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: Smith is a deranged animal, he writes, who should not 347 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: be allowed to practice law. If he were a Republican, 348 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: his license would be taken away from him, and far worse. 349 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 2: Hopefully the Attorney General is looking at what he's done, 350 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 2: including some of the crooked and corrupt witnesses he was 351 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: attempting to use in his case against me. The whole 352 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: thing was a Democrat scam. A big price should be 353 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 2: paid for them and what they have put our country through. Indeed, 354 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 2: Jack Smith talking about some of the witnesses and the 355 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: vile death threats that he describes to election workers to 356 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: defend the phone record non disclosure orders. Here's a taste 357 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: of his testimony from earlier today. Prepared remarks for Jack 358 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 2: Smith wisten. 359 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 10: I am not a politician and I have no partisan loyalties. 360 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 10: My career has been dedicated to serving our country by 361 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 10: upholding the rule of law. Throughout my public service, my 362 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 10: approach has always been the same, follow the facts and 363 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 10: the law without fear or favor made my decisions without 364 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 10: regard to President Trump's political association, activities, beliefs, or candidacy 365 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 10: in the twenty twenty four election. 366 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: Things got pretty chippy from there, at least with Republican 367 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: members of the panel. You know how this goes. It 368 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 2: was a part as an affair, and it's, by the way, 369 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: still ongoing. We assemble our political panel to start with 370 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor, our Republican strategists. Rick as 371 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: a partner at Stone Court Capital, and Jeanie Shanzeno is 372 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: with us Bloomberg Politics contributor and democracy visiting fellow at 373 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. Jeanie, what is the purpose 374 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: of this exercise? The President wants the Attorney General to, 375 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: I guess file charges against Jack Smith. Why's the committee 376 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: got him up there today? 377 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 10: Yeah? 378 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 9: Joe. 379 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 11: You know, by the way that the White House, the 380 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 11: President wherever he is at this moment, have a split 381 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 11: screen with Ja six so he can criticize Jack Smith 382 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 11: and balance a power with Joe Matthew. 383 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 7: That's how you keep ending up our truth social So. 384 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 11: He's wanted it, you know, with you, Jessie, it is 385 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 11: perplexing because you would imagine that the last thing the 386 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 11: White House would want to do right now is draw 387 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 11: attention back to January sixth, draw attention back to the 388 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 11: election loss of twenty twenty, and yet they keep doing this. 389 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 11: Of course, the House tried to hold these hearings in secret, 390 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 11: which they did or in private, i should say, but 391 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 11: Jack Smith asked that they be held in public. And 392 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 11: so now we are hearing once again named like Catsidy 393 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 11: Hutchinson and talk about you know, the police officers who 394 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 11: are there in full force, who were, you know, have 395 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 11: been very critical of the president. So, you know, I'm 396 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 11: not sure why the White House or Republicans want this. 397 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 11: They want to try to paint Jack Smith as dirty, politicized, 398 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 11: a Democrat doing the bidding of Joe Biden, and yet 399 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 11: he is calm, cooling, collected. He knows this case forward 400 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 11: and back. They haven't been able to lay a glove 401 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 11: on him in terms of evidence to show that he 402 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 11: has somehow done anything but his job as a neutral prosecutor. 403 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: Well, I've got questions about the direction of questioning here 404 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 2: by the Republican lead panel. But Rick, I'm just curious 405 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: broadly what you think about what Genie just said, does 406 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: this actually helped the administration to drag Jack Smith up 407 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: there and tell this whole story all over again. 408 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 6: I think this is a combination of the president's kind 409 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 6: of stubbornness with the facts of the election in twenty 410 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 6: twenty and wanting to continue. 411 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 5: To sort of prosecute that. 412 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 6: The Secondarily, I think the members on the Hill see 413 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 6: this is doing no harm, excites their magabase in their districts, 414 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 6: and for them, it's not talking about Greenland, it's not 415 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 6: talking about Jeffrey Epstein. Plate is full of things that 416 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 6: they're trying to avoid, and this is probably the least 417 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 6: toxic of all those things to their reelection efforts. So 418 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 6: I agree with Geenie. I think they're sort of a 419 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 6: market time on this. It makes no sense to spend 420 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 6: time on an issue like this when they've got a 421 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 6: pretty full agenda and they're still struggling to get the 422 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 6: budgets done. 423 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 4: But they are in an election. 424 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 6: Year and more and more we're going to see hearings 425 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 6: like this that have nothing to do with policy, nothing 426 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 6: to do with Congress and making laws, and a lot 427 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 6: to do with trying to get reelected in November. 428 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 2: I should mention Geenie that former Vice President Mike Pence 429 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 2: is going to be with us this evening for the 430 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 2: late edition of Balance of Power, and I suspect he's 431 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: got some thoughts about this whole conversation that's underway on 432 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill. The President's been talking about this a lot 433 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty Rick's right, of course, he talked about 434 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 2: it for the last many years, but most recently it's 435 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: been coming up almost on a daily bas city even 436 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 2: got to it at Davos yesterday. You heard his speech. 437 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: He talked about the fact that it's now been proven 438 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: that twenty twenty was rigged, and he says, I have 439 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: breaking news. Quote people will soon be prosecuted for what 440 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: they did unquote. 441 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 4: Do you know what he meant? 442 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 7: You know, Donald Trump cannot let it go. 443 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 11: We know that he spent yesterday, as you mentioned at Davos, 444 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 11: talking about this. He mentioned Joe Biden repeatedly. He cannot 445 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 11: remove himself from the chaos. He is determined to keep 446 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 11: pointing to this. He has also done it several times 447 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 11: in interviews recently. I'm thinking of the New York Times 448 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 11: interview he did a few days or weeks ago, as 449 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 11: it is now where he talked about, well, you know, 450 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 11: perhaps I should have had the National Guard seize those 451 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 11: voting machines. So he can't control himself, he can't help himself. 452 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 11: But none of this is good for either Donald Trump 453 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 11: or the Republicans or his brand. 454 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 7: He these members of. 455 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 11: Congress and the House Judiciary Committee today have an audience 456 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 11: of one, that is Donald Trump. They are doing the 457 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 11: bidding of Donald Trump, who they know is watching them, 458 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 11: and of course. 459 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 7: Balance of power, and they are going. 460 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 11: To try to make sure that he is happy with 461 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 11: what they have to say, because of course, the lasting 462 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 11: any of them want is to be primary to Rick's point, 463 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 11: of course, they want to energize their base. But the 464 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 11: sort of mind numbing thing about this is the way 465 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 11: for Republicans to do better in the midterm is to 466 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 11: focus on things that matter to voters, and that is 467 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 11: number one, the economy, number two, security and immigration. 468 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 7: And yet they seem determined to look back. 469 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 11: Looking back is never a good way to run an election, 470 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 11: and yet they have to do this to appeal to 471 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 11: the head of their party. 472 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 2: You know, Rick, A big part of the controversy in 473 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: today's testimony with Jack Smith had to do with his 474 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: effort to obtain phone record of Republican lawmakers. And we've 475 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 2: talked about this before, I mean, Lindsey Graham's out for 476 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: blood on this one. When he was asked about it, 477 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 2: Smith said it's common to pull such information when investigating 478 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 2: a conspiracy case, including attempts to interfere with a lawful 479 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: transfer of power. He said, there were some Republicans they 480 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: looked into and realized there was nothing to be found there, 481 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: and so they dropped that portion of the investigation. As 482 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: somebody who spent many years working in the Senate, how 483 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 2: common to use his word. 484 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 6: Is this, I don't think it's common. You know, these 485 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 6: are extraordinary circumstances. And certainly, you know, the investigations as 486 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 6: a result of January sixth were pretty wide when. 487 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 4: It came to. 488 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 6: Folks on the Hill, and that's because it was an 489 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 6: event that actually occurred on the Hill. And so I 490 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 6: really think it's more a one off. I honestly would 491 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 6: hate to believe that the Justice Department, whether it's through 492 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 6: a seven oh two or some kind of a judicial act, 493 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 6: are listening on congressional telephone calls. 494 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 4: I mean, that would be disturbing. 495 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 6: I wouldn't say that that's something that's normal, and I 496 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 6: doubt if there's a member of Congress who thinks that's 497 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 6: a good idea. Also, it's bad enough that we got 498 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 6: to worry about Russia and China's fine on us all 499 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: the time we got to work. 500 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 4: The last thing we want is the Justice Department doing 501 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 4: the same time. 502 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: Well, all this is taking place is the House Oversight 503 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: Committee votes Jennie Shanzino to hold former President Bill Clinton 504 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 2: and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in contempt of 505 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: Congress after they refuse to appear. As we talked about 506 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: last week in a closed door deposition related to the 507 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, where I guess we're doing the 508 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: whole Rogues Gallery series of stories here in this conversation, 509 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: three Democrats voted with Republicans Genie, what's going to happen 510 00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: to the Clintons. 511 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 7: I don't think we know yet. 512 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 11: They have very good attorneys, They have a ground to 513 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 11: stand on here legally. But I think as we take 514 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 11: a step back, what is most disturbing about this is 515 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 11: not what the Congress is doing to the Clintons, but 516 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 11: the fact that they are handling the Clintons in a 517 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 11: different fashion than they are handling other people similarly situated 518 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 11: vis a vis the Epstein issue. 519 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 7: So I think that. 520 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 11: Is where the Clintons really have a leg to stand on. 521 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 11: And of course that and the fact that they offered 522 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 11: and have repeatedly offered and given written testimony. Why is 523 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 11: the committee accepting that from others? And that's not enough 524 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 11: from the Clintons. 525 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 7: But you know, I understand. 526 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 11: These Democrats voting with Republicans on this. I think Democrats 527 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 11: have long said and rightly so, we need to know 528 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 11: what happened in the case. 529 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 7: Of Jeffrey Epstein. 530 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 11: I wish the Republicans were as focused on the release 531 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 11: of the ninety nine percent of the documents from the 532 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 11: DOJ on this issue as they were focusing on the Clintons, 533 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 11: because that's much more important. 534 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 4: And nobody's dye. 535 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 2: By the way, more than ninety nine percent remain right, 536 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 2: they said, less than one percent has been released. By 537 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: the way, I want to clarify, there were two separate 538 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: votes here, Rick. The resolution holding Bill Clinton in contempt 539 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 2: received nine Democrats, So I guess that tells us where 540 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: the couple stands within the Democratic conference in the House. 541 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: Now this sets up a full House vote on whether 542 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: to refer contempt findings by the committee to the Justice Department. 543 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 4: That'll pass right. 544 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 5: Sure. 545 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 6: And I think that you got to sort of read 546 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 6: the room if you're the Clintons. I mean, when you 547 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 6: have that many Democrats saying come on in and talk 548 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 6: to us, you. 549 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 4: Really wonder why not. 550 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 6: The more we talk about Jeffrey Epstein, the worse it 551 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 6: is for this administration, seems, because they certainly act like 552 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 6: they don't want to talk about this stuff. And I 553 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 6: think that it's long since past due that Clintons have 554 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 6: already said everything they're going to say about this, so 555 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 6: why not say it one more time? 556 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: That's Rick Davis and she is Genie Shanzano. Stay with 557 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: us on Balance of Power. We'll have much more coming 558 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: up after this. 559 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 560 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 561 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: Apple Coarckley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 562 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 563 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 564 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here on Balance of 565 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 2: Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. We've had a long 566 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 2: running conversation on this program about Pentagon procurement and the 567 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: emergence of some really fascinating technologies that have changed the 568 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: way Washington is looking at defense. It's a conversation we've 569 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: been looking forward to with Joseph Welch joins US in 570 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 2: studio now executive director of US Army Transformation and Training Command. 571 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: He's a civilian operator in the Pentagon, but the equivalent 572 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 2: of a three star and Joseph, it's great to see you. 573 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 4: Welcome to Bloomberg TV and Radio. 574 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 12: Thanks for having me. 575 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: We talk about AI a lot, and when it comes 576 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: to use cases, people look at chat, GPT or what 577 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 2: search results. 578 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 4: They might be getting. 579 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 2: At some point, you're going a lot deeper with this 580 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 2: technology to actually harness the technology and procurement for weaponry. 581 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: How is it changing the way that we look at 582 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: weapons procurement? 583 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 12: Yeah, I think absolutely. 584 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 13: We've got to be using AI right, our adversaries are 585 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 13: going to be using it. It's like any other evolutionary 586 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 13: or revolutionary technology. We've got to take advantage of it. 587 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 13: And that's true in our weapon systems. It's all so 588 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 13: true in the way that we buy things with our 589 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 13: weapon systems. Really, the power of AI is in our data, right, 590 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 13: and the major initiatives we've got underway now are really 591 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 13: freeing our data from the siloed systems that they exist 592 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 13: in today so that we can apply these AI tools 593 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 13: and we can give our commanders the ability to make faster, 594 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 13: better decisions on the battlefield. 595 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 12: Now case our. 596 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: Adversaries now is the Pentagon. I don't know if you 597 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: can answer this. Are you working on do you have 598 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: your own AI? Is there like a DODLLM out there 599 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 2: that you're using, or are you taking from private companies 600 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: who are expanding this technology? 601 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 12: Yeah. 602 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 13: Really, what we're doing with our reform efforts with procurement 603 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 13: is looking to leverage commercial as much as we can 604 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 13: right so anything from AI to cloud technology, communications capabilities 605 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 13: because that gives us sort of a market efficiency in 606 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 13: driving our cost down so that we can get this 607 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 13: capability out more quickly with the budget that we have. 608 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 13: So absolutely we're doing that. 609 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 2: Fascinating a lot of people watch the United States, as 610 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: the President described it, knock the lights out in Venezuela 611 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago. This brought to light our 612 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: ability to affect the battlefield using cyber I don't know 613 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: if you were part of that or if AI was 614 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: part of that, but this is a new wrinkle on 615 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: the way that we're approaching, for instance, an invasion or 616 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: an occupation. 617 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 13: It certainly is. The thread environment is incredibly complex. You 618 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 13: talk about cyber there's also space, there's electronic warfare as 619 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 13: we're seeing in Ukraine. All these different dimensions are coming 620 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 13: together very quickly. And another challenge, and back to AI, 621 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 13: is that the amount of data that is out there 622 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 13: that needs to be processed and understood, both for ourselves 623 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 13: to be able to conduct operations, but to understand our adversaries, 624 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 13: we need to move through those cycles faster than we 625 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 13: ever had before. That's really why our buying practices needed 626 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 13: to fundamentally change in a new environment. 627 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: Is the end game No people on the battlefield or 628 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: in the airspace. 629 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 12: It's absolutely not. 630 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 10: No. 631 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 13: We absolutely need human judgment and experience involved in complexes. 632 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 4: This is to augment what our troops are already doing. 633 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 12: It absolutely is. 634 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 13: If you think about the cognitive burden on our commanders, 635 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 13: on our soldiers or troops right now, in terms of 636 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 13: all the information coming out and the decisions that they 637 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 13: have to make increasingly faster, AI advanced tools are to 638 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 13: enable them to do those jobs. Better to clear the 639 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 13: battlefield for them, if you will, so that they can 640 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 13: make those human base judgments consistent with our laws and 641 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 13: our values. 642 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: When you start talking about the use of AI in 643 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 2: the battlefield as opposed to in the procurement space, we're 644 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: hearing wild stories about even what the F forty seven 645 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: with the ability to fly with its own. 646 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 4: Fleet of drones. 647 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: You have almost your own squadron with one man in 648 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: the cockpit of an airplane. They can then communicate with 649 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: ground forces, which is talking to people back home. To 650 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: what extent is AI stitching all of this together? 651 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 12: It's AI. 652 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 13: It's also a lot of other commercial tools that you 653 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 13: may be familiar with. You know, if you think of 654 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 13: your phone or your tablet, it's on Wi Fi, it's 655 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 13: on cellular. 656 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 12: It goes back to Wi Fi. Very seamless. 657 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 13: When you think about the apps that are on your tablet, 658 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 13: how they can seamlessly work together, share and exchange data. 659 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 12: They're simple and easy to use. 660 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 13: Like that is the experience that we're delivering to our 661 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 13: soldiers to enable them to conduct their missions effectively the 662 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 13: same as you or I use. Are that kind of 663 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 13: technology in everyday life. 664 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: Interesting and to the extent that you're working with private contractors. 665 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 4: Now, are you using. 666 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 2: The same companies that we're familiar with? I mean, do 667 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 2: you get on the phone with CrowdStrike or Palo Alto 668 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 2: or are these defense contractors that are not household names. 669 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 13: No, we work with you know, many, many different companies, 670 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 13: increasingly more commercial based companies. I mean, obviously we've got 671 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 13: a unique mission within the Army, within the Pentagon, but 672 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 13: the concerns that we have, you know, over security for example. 673 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 13: You know, banks have similar concerns, and service providers have 674 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 13: similar concerns, and so by and large we're working with 675 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 13: commercial entities and tailoring. 676 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 12: What we need for our unique military Operationly. 677 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: Interesting, is it your job to buy Blackwells and Rubens? 678 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: Do you have to go to Nvidia and get these 679 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 2: same AI chips that the private sectors is drooling over. 680 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 12: Yeah? Absolutely, we need AI chips, right. 681 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 13: The question is whether do we need them, you know, 682 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 13: inherently within the military or can we take advantage of 683 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 13: those in a commercial setting. Okay, you know there are 684 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 13: circumstances where we need capability you know that's disconnected from 685 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 13: the cloud or from anywhere else. We have a lot 686 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 13: of contingencies that we need to plan for and we're 687 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 13: going to need chips like that in order to enable 688 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 13: disconnect operations on the battlefield. 689 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 4: It's fascinating. 690 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: So that means so the Pentagon has data centers, is 691 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: what you're seeing. 692 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 12: We have less data centers than we used to, right 693 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 12: And really, yes we. 694 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: Do because they are they're more efficient, or because you 695 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: don't need as many because commercial same question, because commercial 696 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: providers can do that with some added layers of security. 697 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 13: Really, what I'm talking about is when we are completely disconnected, 698 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 13: we have no way of getting back to a data center, 699 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 13: whether it's ours or commercial. We still need to give 700 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 13: our soldiers the ability to conduct their missions and do 701 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 13: that in a digital fashion. 702 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: Well, you've got an interesting situation, as I mentioned, your 703 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,919 Speaker 2: executive director of US Army Transformation and Training Command, knowing 704 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 2: that the Defense Secretary Pete Hexth has promoted reforms in 705 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 2: acquisitions and procurement. What's it like still for you to 706 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 2: walk into a room of top brass and maybe some 707 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 2: of the gray hairs who are in the Pentagon to 708 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 2: say that we need we don't need this weapons system 709 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: to go to war maybe with China, we need this 710 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 2: piece of software to protect ourselves. 711 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 4: Are you being well received? 712 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 12: Absolutely so. 713 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 13: I me know that this is required the reform efforts 714 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 13: that I'm seeing, and I've got more than twenty years 715 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 13: of experience working in procurements. I mean, this is really 716 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 13: a once in a generation change in the way that 717 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 13: we're doing business. 718 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 12: Right. 719 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 13: We used to not buy software anywhere like the rest 720 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 13: of the world does, and today increasingly we're doing kind 721 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 13: of the Silicon Valley model. We've got a minimum viable product, 722 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 13: getting it in hands of our soldiers as quickly as possible, 723 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 13: iterating improving it, and then scaling it immediately. It's vastly 724 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 13: different than the way that we build systems in the past. 725 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: Yet we have a trillion or I guess if the 726 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 2: President gets his way a trillion and a half dollar 727 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 2: defense budget for the first time. 728 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 4: Is that because we need all of the above. 729 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: I would expect that technologies like these would be streamlining, 730 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: creating efficiencies, and maybe making defense less expensive. 731 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 12: Yeah. 732 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 13: I can't speak to the entire top line increase. I 733 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 13: can tell you in the area that I work within 734 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 13: information technology, there's a concept of tech debt, which is 735 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 13: that you are so far in the past in the 736 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 13: core technology that you had that you really need to 737 00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 13: reset yourself. 738 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 4: Up to modern absolutely, Yeah, tell me more about that. 739 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 13: So, you know, the Army digitized for the first time 740 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 13: in the late nineteen nineties. This is the same time 741 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 13: the rest of the world was entering the digital era. 742 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 13: The rest of the world has moved on, you know, 743 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 13: by and large, our soldiers, the equipment that they're using 744 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 13: still has a lot of its capabilities that are rooted 745 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 13: in that time. If you consider an eighteen year old 746 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 13: who walks into one of our recruiting stations today, they 747 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 13: don't realize the iPhone is older than that person, right, 748 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 13: So that's the scale of the gap that. 749 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 2: God don't say that, and then they sit down in 750 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 2: front of this old DOS machine and they say, how 751 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 2: do I work this? 752 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 8: Right? 753 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 12: So not for much longer? 754 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 2: Okay, well how much longer? What's your timeline and what 755 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: are your goals? 756 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 12: Yeah? 757 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 13: So our goal is to is to rapidly advance the 758 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 13: state of technology. As I say, retire all of that 759 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 13: tech debt, get modern capabilities that you're familiar with from 760 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 13: your phone, your tablet, give our soldiers the same kinds 761 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 13: of things. Because the underlying portions of that technology, the 762 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 13: availability of the data, the ability to work together. It's 763 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 13: already exists commercially. We've got some unique missions, but we're 764 00:37:58,239 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 13: starting from the point of commercial. 765 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 12: That's what's going to let us scale fast. 766 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 2: Imagine conducting procurement in the largest office building in the world. 767 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,479 Speaker 2: That's your job, right, Yes, sir, I'm glad you could 768 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: come to tell your story, and we'd love to hear 769 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 2: more as some of these technologies are identified. Joseph Welch, 770 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 2: US Army Transformation Training Command. We really appreciate the insights today. 771 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg. 772 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 12: Thanks sir. 773 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 4: Anytime you can cross the Potomac to come see us, 774 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 4: that'll be a good thing. Thanks for listening to the 775 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 4: Balance of Power podcast. 776 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 777 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 778 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 779 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.