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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Dorry

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Speaker 1: with you along with Paul David's. Now, those of you

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Speaker 1: who don't know the name Timothy Learry, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you a little bit about him. First of all, he

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Speaker 1: died in nineteen ninety six, but he was a clinical

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Speaker 1: psychologist at Harvard University, and he was testing the therapeutic

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Speaker 1: effects of LSD. As a matter of fact, some of

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Speaker 1: his own faculty members were outraged at him because he too,

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Speaker 1: Timothy Leary was trying the LSD himself, but he believed

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Speaker 1: that LSD showed potential for prepeutic use in psychiatry. After

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Speaker 1: he left Harvard, he continued to publicly promote the use

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Speaker 1: of psychedelic drugs, and he became a well known figure

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Speaker 1: of the counterculture in the nineteen sixties. Paul, did you

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Speaker 1: know Timothy Leary? I sure did, I sure did. I

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Speaker 1: want to tell you how I met him, how I

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Speaker 1: tryally make the film. But I wanted to add in

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Speaker 1: a few details that you left out in your summary,

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Speaker 1: and that was that he didn't just leave Harvard voluntarily.

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Speaker 1: He was fired from Harvard. When he was at Harvard,

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Speaker 1: most of his experiments were more with psilocybin the magic mushrooms,

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Speaker 1: and then along came LSD. But he was fired along

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Speaker 1: with his close associate Richard Albert, who later took the

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Speaker 1: name Baba Ramdas. Many people know Ramdas, who's deceased. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: made a great contribution. But Timothy very controversial because whereas

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Speaker 1: many of his contemporary said, look, keep LSD a secret.

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Speaker 1: This mind expansion, this extraordinary mental change that comes about

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Speaker 1: from it, everybody can't handle that. So his associates like

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Speaker 1: author all This Huxley, Humphrey Osmond, who ran the New

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Speaker 1: Jersey Neurosachiac Institute where I was actually a subject a

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Speaker 1: subject in this research when I was a student at Princeton.

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Speaker 1: We wrote a book about it, my co author John

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Speaker 1: Selby and I called Blowing America's Mind. But so Timothy

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Speaker 1: fired from Harvard. He took the project down to Mexico

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Speaker 1: to Zeewatnejo and spent a summer having invitees come and

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Speaker 1: take LSD learn about the psychedelics, and by the end

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Speaker 1: of the second summer there he was banned from Mexico.

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Speaker 1: He was invited to take up the project at I

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Speaker 1: think it was a Dominican and he was banned from there.

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Speaker 1: He then went to Antigua. He was there for two months,

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Speaker 1: started up the project. Thought he had allies, and he's

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Speaker 1: banned from there. But the turning point for him was

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Speaker 1: his friendship with Peggy Hitchcock, who was part of the

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Speaker 1: Melon Family universe of the Mellon Art Gallery. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the bank Yes, Yes, and she had two

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Speaker 1: brothers who purchased an enormous mansion in upstate New York

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Speaker 1: called Millbrook. This mansion had sixty four rooms, thousands of acres.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a mile from the gatehouse up

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Speaker 1: to the main house. And she said, look, you might

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Speaker 1: be able to use this for your research, but you're

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Speaker 1: going to have to turn on my brothers. So he

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Speaker 1: and Richard Alpert did turn on her brothers with LSD

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Speaker 1: and they became big supporters and they let him have

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Speaker 1: the Millbrook mansion where he set up first the League

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Speaker 1: for Spiritual Discovery and then an organization he called if IF,

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Speaker 1: the International Foundation for Internal Freedom. And that's the focus

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Speaker 1: of what Timothy Leary was about internal freedom, that we

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Speaker 1: should have the right to if we want to use

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Speaker 1: a psychedelic drug or marijuana, we should have the right

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Speaker 1: to do that. It's our body, we're doing it to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Why should the government have control over this? So that

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Speaker 1: his pitch and he brought down the wrath of the government,

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Speaker 1: and that's when he started to get arrested. First in Laredo, Texas,

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Speaker 1: busted for having two joints of marijuana, sentenced to thirty

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Speaker 1: years prison, thirty years for two joints that were in

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Speaker 1: the possession of his daughter Susan in the car, which

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Speaker 1: would be legal today of course absolutely, and this thirty years,

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Speaker 1: I think it was ten years for possession, ten years

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Speaker 1: for transporting it, ten years for not paying the tax

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Speaker 1: on it. Well, a few years later that was thrown

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Speaker 1: out by the Supreme Court, but too late to help him,

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Speaker 1: because meanwhile Millbrook gets busted by G. Gordon Liddy, a

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Speaker 1: massive raid on this establishment that had become a focal

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Speaker 1: point for psychological research with psychedelics and had invited people

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Speaker 1: of stature from around the world to come there and

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Speaker 1: contribute to the studies. And they rated, they arrested him,

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Speaker 1: arrested everyone else there. And while that's weren't winding its

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Speaker 1: way through the courts. He goes to California because he's

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Speaker 1: out on bail and they bust him in California at

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Speaker 1: a time that he's running for governor against Ronald Reagan,

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Speaker 1: and he said it was a frame up. The cops

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Speaker 1: pulled two roaches out of his ashtray. He said they

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Speaker 1: weren't his roaches. The cops put them there for that.

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Speaker 1: He was sentenced to ten years in jail, and that's

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Speaker 1: when they finally sent him to prison. And then it

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Speaker 1: was prison, prison, prison. He escaped the story of his

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Speaker 1: escape extraordinary, extraordinary story. And he spent a couple I

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Speaker 1: think years on the lamb, first in Algeria with Eldridge Clever.

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Speaker 1: Then he was in Switzerland. But when he made the

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Speaker 1: mistake of traveling to Afghanistan, this is way before the

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Speaker 1: wars there, he was arrested by the CIA, brought back

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Speaker 1: to the US, thrown into fulsome prison, put in a

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Speaker 1: cell next to Charles Manson. He was made an example of.

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Speaker 1: Nixon called him the most dangerous man alive. He was

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Speaker 1: arrested for his ideas, for his influence on the youth

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Speaker 1: of the country. His ideas were considered dangerous. They wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep him locked up. That's the story of Timothy Leary,

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Speaker 1: I respected psychologist who started with stature at Harvard and

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Speaker 1: became a convict. Where in that life did you meet him.

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Speaker 1: I didn't meet him until after he got out of

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Speaker 1: prison and he learned that he was dying of prostate cancer.

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Speaker 1: And his publisher at that time, who was republishing his books,

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Speaker 1: a man named Sebastian or Folly of Ronan Publishing. I

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Speaker 1: met him at a book convention and he was very

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Speaker 1: impressed that I was executive producer of the movie Roswell

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Speaker 1: for Showtime, which by the way, is based on a

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Speaker 1: book by your friend Kevin Randall. Crash at Roswell will

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Speaker 1: work with Kevin on that. But in any event, so

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Speaker 1: Baston or Folly called me up and he said, look,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't been publicly announced, but Timothy is dying. No

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Speaker 1: one has made a biographical film about his life. It's

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Speaker 1: now or never. He said, I could talk to him.

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Speaker 1: I could pitch you, and do you think that you

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Speaker 1: could get the resources together and make a film. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was tremendously interested. I knew that the clock was ticking.

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Speaker 1: I had to find financial resources for it. And I

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Speaker 1: will say that most of that came from a businessman

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Speaker 1: named Todd Easton Mills, who's become a great friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: who is also an extraordinary writer of short stories. Said

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Speaker 1: like an F Scott Fitzgerald. He said, forty wonderful short

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Speaker 1: stories published. He hadn't begun writing. Then he met with me,

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Speaker 1: impressed with Roswell, and they said, you know, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to make a movie with you. What do you got? Well,

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Speaker 1: he was a conservative businessman. I thought it was impossible

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Speaker 1: he'd want to do Timothy Leary. So I pitched him

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Speaker 1: four other projects first, and he said no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no. And then I said, well, you know what

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Speaker 1: about this I heard from Leary's publisher, how about the

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Speaker 1: biography of Timothy Leary? I think we could get Leary's

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Speaker 1: cooperation and do it with him. And at that we

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Speaker 1: were the Ritz at the Ritz, having a lunch. He

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Speaker 1: pulled out his check book, slammed it on the table

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Speaker 1: and said how much will it cost me? And when

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Speaker 1: can we start? So at that called up Timothy Learry

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Speaker 1: arranged to meet him, and Leary said yes. I would

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Speaker 1: say for three reasons. Sebastad Or Fali had said, I

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Speaker 1: was the man to do it because of Roswell. That

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Speaker 1: was one reason number two. I had worked as a

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Speaker 1: subject when I was at Princeton at the New Jersey

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Speaker 1: or a psychiatric institute with Leary's associate Humphrey Osmond. Osmond

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Speaker 1: is the Canadian psychiatrist who invented the term psychedelic, and

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Speaker 1: he respected that that I knew Osmond and had worked

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Speaker 1: with Osmond. So that was reason number two. And reason

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Speaker 1: number three was money. Timothy Leary, having been in jail

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Speaker 1: and on the lamp so many years, was really short

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Speaker 1: on funds. He was broke. He was living off of

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Speaker 1: the good graces of many friends for many, many years,

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Speaker 1: and so Todd offered to pay him something, you know,

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Speaker 1: nice to do it. I think I spent five days

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Speaker 1: with Timothy Leary, interviewing him for hours and hours each time.

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Speaker 1: We got a massive amount of material from Timothy, and

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Speaker 1: it was wonderful, and I provided him with suits to where.

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Speaker 1: Did you like him, Paul? I respected him enormously. I

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Speaker 1: did like him. I thought he's brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I

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Speaker 1: mean he's been compared Look people say exaggerated, You're going

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Speaker 1: to compare him to Socrates. Well, Socrates was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: death for corrupting the youth. Timothy Leary was incarcerated for

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Speaker 1: corrupting the youth. People have compared him to Henry David Thorreaux,

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Speaker 1: who went to jail willingly because he refused to pay

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Speaker 1: attacks to support the Mexican War. That's the kind of

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Speaker 1: person Timothy Leary was. He went to jail and wrote

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Speaker 1: books in jail, and he didn't hate his jailers. He said,

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Speaker 1: you know, look, they're doing their job and I'm doing

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Speaker 1: my job. And his job was to be a philosopher

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Speaker 1: who was a troublemaker, who was questioning everything about our

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Speaker 1: society at the time of the Vietnam War and was

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Speaker 1: offering a way into the future. I want to add

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Speaker 1: that a book was written, a bibliography of his writings,

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Speaker 1: of Leary's writings. Michael Harrowitz put out this book. It's

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Speaker 1: three hundred pages long, one page about each one of

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Speaker 1: Leary's books and published papers. Can you imagine that, I

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Speaker 1: mean you and I, George, we've each written a few books.

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Speaker 1: Timothy Leary wrote so much that it took three hundred

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Speaker 1: pages just to describe what he wrote. And he's a

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Speaker 1: historical figure you know, he started out he was you'd say,

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Speaker 1: an agent provocateur. Bob Randas called him a perennial rascal,

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Speaker 1: and he had this great influences, an icon of the counterculture.

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Speaker 1: Promoting LSD. He wanted to turn on the whole world.

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Speaker 1: He was working with Mary Pincho Meyer, who was a

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Speaker 1: friend of President Kennedy, and she was working behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes to turn on the top people in Washington with LSD.

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Speaker 1: Leary believed she had turned on John F. Kennedy With LSD.

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Speaker 1: They thought this was the answer to the future of

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Speaker 1: world peace, that if if enough world leaders experienced the

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Speaker 1: ecstasy and the beauty of life through LSD, that they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't possibly destroy the world with nuclear weapons. Well that

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Speaker 1: was his goal. But did I like him? You know,

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Speaker 1: he was after prison. He was crusty, He was irascible,

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Speaker 1: He was argumentative, and he would jump all over me

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Speaker 1: if I asked a question. He didn't, you know, like

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Speaker 1: or I phrased it wrong. But this is a great man,

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Speaker 1: a great man. And why are we selling Timothy Leary's

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Speaker 1: head twenty five years later? Yeah? That is I've got

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Speaker 1: to ask you that twenty five years you're auctioning off

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Speaker 1: his head. Well, it's not his real head. However, it

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Speaker 1: was made from a plaster cast that he sat for

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Speaker 1: because he was cremated. Wasn't he to make a perfect,

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Speaker 1: perfect replica of his head? Why? Let me tell you why.

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Speaker 1: And in my movie, which maybe I watched your movie,

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Speaker 1: you cut his head off. I saw it in the movie. Look,

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Speaker 1: most all of the reviewers were convinced that he was

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Speaker 1: decapitated for cryogenic freezing of the head. In the movie,

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Speaker 1: he said, again and again, that's his plan, that's what

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Speaker 1: he wanted to do. He said, the most important decision

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Speaker 1: you can make in your life is how you want

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Speaker 1: to die. He said. You can't choose how you're born,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't choose who your parents are, but

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Speaker 1: you can plan your death. And he felt that with

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Speaker 1: cryogenic preservation of the brain the head, his DNA would

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Speaker 1: be preserved, there would be a chance that someday he

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Speaker 1: could be brought back. And in my movie he insists

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Speaker 1: that this is what he's going to do. Again and again. Well,

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Speaker 1: we said to ourselves, Todd Easton Mills and I, look,

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Speaker 1: what if we don't actually get to be there when

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Speaker 1: he dies? And this happened because he made a contract

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Speaker 1: with the Alcore Company to preserve the head as Ted

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Speaker 1: Williams has done. Right, Yeah, that Ted Williams was the

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Speaker 1: whole body. And as Bob A. Ramdas said, you know,

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Speaker 1: Tim didn't have the money, the seventy five thousand bucks

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Speaker 1: to do the whole body. He was the chief skate

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Speaker 1: who went for twenty five thousand dollars they head. So

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Speaker 1: so all this was going to be definite. But Todd

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, look we may not be

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Speaker 1: there to film this. You know, this is the ending

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Speaker 1: of our film. We got to show it. So Tim

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Speaker 1: sat for the plaster. You know, we plastered his whole

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Speaker 1: head and I put that in the end credits to

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Speaker 1: tip off people, to hint them, don't believe everything you

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Speaker 1: saw in this movie. Look, we have a mold of

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Speaker 1: his head. We show his decapitation effort, he dies in

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Speaker 1: the movie. Do you want to believe that what we

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Speaker 1: were showing you was absolutely It looked authentic to me,

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Speaker 1: absolutely looked authentic. And look, twenty five years later, I'm

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Speaker 1: taking that head and Heritage Auctions in Beverly Hills and

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Speaker 1: Dallas is auctioning it off on their November fourth or

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Speaker 1: fifth auction coming up? What are they calling it? What

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Speaker 1: is he calling it? Yeah? What are they? What are

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Speaker 1: they calling? What they're auctioning it? The a mock up

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Speaker 1: prop head of Timothy Leary the movie Timothy Learies Dead. Now,

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Speaker 1: nobody knew for sure until now that there even was

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Speaker 1: this mock up head. And I want to say, twenty

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Speaker 1: five years later, I'm doing this now, Why am I

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Speaker 1: parting with this head? It's been a box in my

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Speaker 1: house for twenty five years. I've just shown it to

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Speaker 1: a few trusted friends. It hasn't been on display. And

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Speaker 1: I think now he deserves the recognition. We need to

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Speaker 1: look at his life again. We need to look at

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Speaker 1: his contribution. Look almost throughout the United States. Anybody can

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Speaker 1: smoke marijuana now without penalty, without penalty Timothy Leary saidence

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Speaker 1: to thirty years in jail and Laredo for two joints.

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Speaker 1: We need to look at this. What was this madness,

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Speaker 1: this war on drugs from Nixon? Now I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: I support all the goals of if IF, the International

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Speaker 1: Foundation for Internal Freedom, because does that mean that we

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Speaker 1: can't regulate anything that people put in their bodies? Will?

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Speaker 1: Maybe you have to consider in some instances, there's a

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Speaker 1: larger societal interest involved in these kinds of things. However,

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Speaker 1: the societal interests they claimed on marijuana was like in

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Speaker 1: that nineteen thirties movie Reefer Madness where they said, you

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Speaker 1: know the kids have smoked this marijuana, they pick up

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Speaker 1: a knife and they kill people. It makes you violent. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's nonsense. It's been a lie. So Timothy Leary goes

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Speaker 1: to jail because of that lie, and how many others

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Speaker 1: went to jail because of that. Listen to more Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more