WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 79 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.440 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.280 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.520 there's got to be nothing new here for you. But 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:30.360 you can make your own decisions. It's it could happen here. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.680 It's it's it's it's it could happen here a podcast 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.040 that it is. It's happening to you here right now. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.159 Bad things, good things, all sorts of things, because today 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.200 we are talking about the ultimate and bad good things, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:56.040 Donald Trump's indictment and very brief arrest. Garrison Davis, James Stout. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.280 How are we all doing today? How we all feeling 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:00.400 this week? 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.600 We did it, Joe, the mission accomplished. 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:06.200 Time to pack up. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:12.520 Yeah, Dark Brandon has come for Trump finally, So I 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.640 figured we would wait until, you know, a few days 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:17.679 had gone by. There were a lot of when the 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.880 initial indictment was announced, we didn't even actually know what 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.640 all the charges were. There was a pretty long period 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.160 of time that we didn't know like what the actual 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.760 crime at the center of this was, but most of 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:35.520 that has now is now relatively clear, as are kind 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.080 of the earliest stages of the fallout to the Trump indictment. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.639 So I feel like now is a reasonably good time 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.360 to talk about it. More may have, you know, occur 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.680 since we occurred, since we recorded this. But broadly speaking, 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.800 the thing that Trump got indicted by, as according to 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.520 the thirteen page court filing outlining the case against him 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.240 by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, was what's called a 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.360 catch and kill scheme in which Trump and you know, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.480 his his Trump bets, would basically bribe people to not 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.680 write bad stories about him. You know, it's a hush 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.480 money thing. My assumption is that basically everybody at that 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.160 level of wealth and prominence does versions of the same thing, 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.840 and these, in fact, are not crimes on their own. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.040 You can bribe somebody not to say a bad talk 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.520 about a bad thing you did to the press. Where 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.560 things get illegal is that Trump, you know, made a 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.280 series of payments, primarily these one hundred and thirty one 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:42.280 thousand dollars in payments to Stormy Daniels, to buy her quiet, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.520 and then he had to falsify company records or his 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.720 people falsified company records to disguise the payments as legal fees. 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.600 Bragg is arguing that not only is this a crime, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.840 but it's a felony crime because he did this, He 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.959 falsified these records to these disguise these payments in order 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:08.440 to further additional violations of the laws. And those additional 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.480 violations of the laws, the actual like core crime here 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.440 is that disguising under New York law, disguising these kind 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.760 of payments in corporate records is a crime. It's typically 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.360 a misdemeanor, but it's a felony if the business records 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.639 were intended to obscure a second crime. And in this case, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.400 the second crime appears to be the use of funds 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:33.400 to advance his like presidential campaign, which was in violation 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.320 of campaign finance laws. So the core crime that makes 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:39.640 the misdemeanor a felony is the fact that he was 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:44.000 doing this in order to advance his presidential campaign, and 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.640 thus like the payments that he was making were basically 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.040 counted as part of the limited amount of money you 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.200 can spend, you know, financing your campaign and he violated 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.080 that right. That's that's the gist of it, as I understand, 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.680 like what's actually being argued here. 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.640 Yeah, that seems to be about the sides of it. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.680 Just for people who aren't familiar. Brag is Alvin Bragg? 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:06.960 What the yeah? 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.720 You da Manhattan da Okay? 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:10.560 Yeah. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.520 What's really concerning about this is that if they can 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.680 arrest Trump, that means they can arrest to any one 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:16.040 of us. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:16.960 That's right. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.479 All the money that I've paid for people to hush 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:26.320 up stories about it, including Stormy Daniels, you know. No, 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.680 it's like people, there's a lot of talk about like 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.200 is this a weak case or a strong case? None 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.120 of us are lawyers, my my, I go kind of 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.760 both ways about this. One of them is that Alvin 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.000 Bragg is a guy who, you know, whatever he believes 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.800 about this case, is also a prosecutor. That is a 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.159 political position. Prosecuting someone and failing to get your man 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.159 is bad for your career, and if that man is 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.800 the president who you indict for the first time in 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.440 living memory, that would be really bad for your So 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.240 my assumption is that Brag at least believes he's got 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.839 a really strong case otherwise he because this is a 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.560 tremendous risk for him right now. Obviously, can Trump wriggle 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.400 his way out of it, well, Trump is extremely good 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.280 at wriggling his way out of things, and he has 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.240 all of the money in the world for lawyers. So 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.640 I think it would be foolish to say it's a 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.480 slam dunk either way. People who are saying that, like, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.720 this is a weird thing to prosecute him for, I guess, 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.359 but you know it does. I can see the logic 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.960 that this guy that Bragg is kind of going with, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.720 and it's do I think this should be a felony? 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:40.120 I guess. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.080 I don't care, as long as it does some damage 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.680 to the man and causes him some like consternation, which 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.040 is like the question, right, is this actually gonna harm him? 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.240 But yeah, like that is the more debatable question, right, 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.160 Like it's just gonna harm them or help him. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.280 There's there's a lot of talk about is this a 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.760 political prosecution? And my general response to that is, well, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.239 like nearly all prosecutions are political, right, Like, even something 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.440 that wouldn't seem like like a decision to go after 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.320 a rapist, well, most rapists are not actually ever charged 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.280 or brought through the justice system. So if you're a 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.760 prosecutor choosing to do that in a specific case, there's 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.520 a degree of politics factoring into your decision, even if 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.920 it's just as as simple as like, if I take 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.880 on this case and I lose it, it could harm 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.719 my ability to move forward in the ways that I 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.440 want to in my career. So the fact that now 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.160 this is political perhaps a grander sense. I have no 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.800 doubt that the fact that this is Donald fucking Trump 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.800 and everything that's happened since twenty twenty has happened that 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.000 he has been a party, and I have no doubt 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.320 that that all factors into this. But I just don't 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.680 see that as being like the fact that finally a 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:57.360 prosecutor is making sort of a political prosecution of a 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.440 man at the top of the hierarchy is not something 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.200 that concerns me terribly. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:10.360 Yeah, I didn't think, Like, I'm more concerned that this 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.440 seems to have propelled him to the front of the 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.360 Republican race and that he's getting a bunch of donations 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.400 off it than I am about any potential consequences. Like all, Yeah, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:22.440 actual indictment. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.080 It is certainly an interesting political move for dissentis to 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:31.280 back Trump on this and not not like comply with extradition, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.360 not that it would ever get to that point, but 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.520 that is still a move that dissent is made on purpose, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.560 which is an interesting point of a move considering a 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.800 future candidacy, and it. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.520 Is let's talk about that a second, because obviously thirty 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.120 four felony counts sounds like a lot. That is in 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.800 fact quite a few felonies. But the at least the 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.960 coverage I'm reading is like it's basically unheard of for 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.040 someone to actually do jail time for this as a 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:02.920 first defense, which I don't know, whatever, it's absolutely breathtaking. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.240 He doesn't have a single crime on him, giving me 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:06.920 he's essentially a career criminal. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.920 Well, there there are continuing like there's like the potential 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.760 for prosecution still from like that call he had with 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.400 the Secretary of State of Georgia, which we'll talk about 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:18.960 a little bit. 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.160 Yeah, I think there are a few sort of more 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.160 serious there's a number of things that, Yeah, this may 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.480 not be the last Trump criminal indictment that we see. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.440 Oh god, we can we can only hope. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.120 We can only hope because because. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.320 It only gets more funny from here, and that's the 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:37.440 only reason to hope. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:39.320 Yeah, well, well unless it doesn't. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.880 I'm seeing a lot of like panic from some people, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.560 certain certain folks in the progressive and kind of center 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.840 left media sphere who are like, this is just handed 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.600 Trump the nomination. This might have just handed Trump the election. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.040 From what I'm looking at and from the polling I'm 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.360 looking at, I mean, I think there's a good chance 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.040 this helps I mean, I think the certainly supports the 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:07.200 argument that this will help him cinch the nomination. I 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.400 don't really think that was super in doubt before, although 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.199 he has definitely gained on Desantas since all of this, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.560 this whole process started, there is evidence I'm looking at 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.200 a five thirty eight article right now, Trump's indictment might 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.480 be making him more popular among Republicans. But kind of 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.959 the point that's actually made is that the group that's 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.680 that's getting more likely to back him is his base. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.920 Like maybe it's people who were softer on him because 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.080 he didn't back you know, the j sixth people. Maybe 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.120 some of them are just folks who kind of drifted 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.640 away because you know, it's the years in between a 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.319 presidential election and that's a natural thing. So it may 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.480 have galvanized his base. He's certainly he's raised four or 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.000 five million dollars. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.240 He's seven. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.880 Now he's claiming seven. I mean that seems real possible. 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.840 He is saying that a significant chunk of it. I 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.079 think like twenty percent might be more than that. Now 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.640 we're like first time donations. That is what his people 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.720 are claiming. That is not I have no way of 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.120 knowing if those numbers are legitimate. What we can say 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.640 is that the polling that we're seeing nationally does not 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.680 back the idea that this is causing a sea change 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.360 in the likelihood of Americans to support Donald Trump. About 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.440 sixty nine percent of Americans, according to a very nice 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.240 according to an economist you Go poll, say that in general, 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.880 failing to report having spent campaign money on payments in 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.320 order to keep someone silent about an issue to effect 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.840 and affect the outcome of an election is a crime. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.800 About ninety percent Biden voters back this, while about fifty 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.959 four percent of those who voted for Trump in twenty 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.960 twenty said the same, Which is interesting. Now, that doesn't 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.160 mean they also think that this is what Trump did, right, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.200 They're just saying they think that that is a crime. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.880 About fifty seven percent of Republicans according to that same 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.920 or according to a Yahoo News yugav poll, about fifty 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.040 seven percent of Republicans and Republican leaners said they would 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.600 support Trump and a head to head against Ron DeSantis, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.440 who received thirty one percent. That's an increase in support 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.520 for the president by about ten percent, but DeSantis has 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.880 only gone down by like eight percent, so you can 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.200 see like he basically what's happening is that this is 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.800 causing people to flock from DeSantis to him, which is 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.640 not kind of evidence that we're seeing like a broader 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:40.439 national sweep. Quinnipiac University, n PR, PBS News Hour Marist 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.079 Pole kind of broadly supported the idea that investigations into 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:50.720 Trump are popular among Americans, more popular than not. At 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:55.080 least about fifty six percent of Americans say the investigations 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.360 into Trump are fair, about forty one percent say they're 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.400 a witch hunt. In dependants are pretty split on the issue, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:08.000 but obviously like Democrats, wildly supportive Republicans very much against. 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.679 Most college educated adults come down on this being fair, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.640 as do most gin Z and millennial people. Adults without 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.120 a college education, White evangelicals and those in small towns 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.880 are most likely to call it a witch hunt. An NPR, 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.439 PBS News Hour Marist poll shows a plurality of Americans. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.120 Forty six percent believe Trump has done something illegal related 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:34.040 to those investigations. Another twenty nine percent say Trump has 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.120 done something unethical but not illegal, while only twenty three 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.200 percent say he's done nothing wrong. Overall, fifty seven percent 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.320 of Americans say that criminal charges filed against Trump should 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.360 disqualify him from a presidential bid. Thirty eight percent say 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.480 it should not. That would be an area where I 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.320 actually agree with the Republicans. I don't think that having 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.240 charges against you should disqualify you from running for president. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.520 But man, I think if you are a fucking murderer, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.720 you should be able to run for president. People have 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.040 the right to run for and vote for whoever the 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.439 fuck they want, and I think that that is a 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.120 strong core belief of mine. Not going to vote for Trump, 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.440 but I think the fact that he's getting charged with 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.000 a bunch of felonies should not. If he was in jail, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.360 he should be able to run as people have in 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:15.880 the past. 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:21.000 In my opinion, Yeah, Eugene Debs famous Trump President, and 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.480 I'm kind of more interested actually in I think the 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.319 Republican response is fairly predictable, Like all of this we 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.000 could have called that, you know, the moment they said 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.319 they were indicting him the Democrats, Like, I'm look, I 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:35.920 don't think the Democrats are ever going to do anything 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.800 useful that will really change material conditions or make things 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.000 much better for working people in this country. But the 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.440 fact that it gives them the option to pivot back 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.360 to like Orange Man bad as their only campaign, as 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.880 their only promise, as their only sort of principle, which 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.440 like they put forward as a reason to vote for them, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.320 is still bad. I think like it prevents even the 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.960 mudicum of accountability that we have for all the shit 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.080 that the Democrats have done and all the shit that 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.520 they haven't done in the past what like three two, 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.880 two and a half years since the election. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.880 I think that's so much broader of a problem than 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.680 just dealing with this set of charges. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:20.160 I am. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.640 I am sympathetic to the idea if you just kind 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.960 of look at history that you can't let people do 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.760 the kind of shit Trump did and not try to 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.680 fucking go after them and not hammer the sons of bitches, right, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.080 and this is this is not you know they went 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.000 after after the Beer Hall putch, Hitler was jailed for 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.160 like a year, So it doesn't mean that, like slaps 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:50.160 on the wrist don't necessarily have much of a protective effect. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.080 But I don't know. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.600 I am so torn on this. I mean, obviously it's 0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:00.360 really funny. I think it if this is kind of 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.480 the start of a series of prosecutions that's going to 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.560 make this guy's life hell, and that might actually even 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.000 force some consequences for him, then I think that's broadly speaking, 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.840 a good thing, as long as it doesn't like disqualify 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:15.880 him from the presidency, which I think would be a 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:16.680 bad precedent. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:18.440 But I don't know. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.400 I'm broadly on team yeah, man, fuck him up, like 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.360 we know this guy would have, and in fact has 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.960 promised to if he gets into power again, use the state, 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.320 use the Justice Department, remake it in his own image, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:40.120 and destroy his enemies. So I'm not against the idea that, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.360 like well, the dims, I tend to agree with you 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.800 on most things, James, Like I don't believe the Democratic 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:54.480 Party deserves to have an easy election right now, because 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.640 they've failed. I mean, this is the week where we're 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.600 getting the announcement from Biden that he's essentially taking kind 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.080 of the soft answer to the GOP attack on trans 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.840 people participating in sporting events. We were also about a 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.920 week out from his most recent announcement on or maybe 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:12.400 actually it's been more like a couple of weeks. On 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.400 the border shit, we just had that horrible fire over 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.040 in Juarez like a week or so ago. Like, the 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.320 Biden administration has let a lot of people down in 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.400 a number of ways. There's you know, some of the 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.480 drilling shit that's about to start up again in Alaska 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.280 is really unsettling to me. So I agree with you. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.680 I don't like the idea that they can make this 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.320 be an Orange Man bad election again. And I'm hopeful 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.240 that some of what we've seen, you know, particularly like 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.920 the most recent election in Chicago, you know, maybe maybe 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.880 there's kind of at least room at the state level 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.360 for a lot more progressive to edge out kind of 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.760 centrist dims and force some consequences that way. But I 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:02.080 also am worried about, you know, this authoritarian who threatened 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.640 to jail and murder a bunch of people. I care 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:10.080 about and like I want, I want him to spend 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.240 the rest of his life tangled up in that shit. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:14.439 I don't know that that's what this is going to be. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.159 You know, maybe they'll they'll fail miserably here, but I 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.240 don't know. I do think the kind of panic that 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.280 you're getting from some people that like this handed them 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.439 the election, I'm not seeing evidence that that's the case. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.119 I think that maybe if this had happened in like 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.439 twenty sixteen or even twenty twenty, sure you might get 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.399 something like that. But at the point where at now, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.200 I just don't think new people are coming to Trump 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:41.840 in numbers. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:42.800 Yeah. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.120 Yeah, And it very much makes sense for the liberal 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.199 state apparatus to try to defend itself from what it 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:56.800 sees as like an insurgent, reactionary factor, right, Like that 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.280 that is how they view Trump and Trump's political power, 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.040 so it makes sense they will use their own powers 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:08.000 to try to resist that from gaining control. Again, whether 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.000 or not you believe the state apparatus should exist at all, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.160 or how valid you view its existence, it makes sense 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:15.800 what they're doing. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.760 Yeah, I'm not I am. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.280 I mean, honestly, I am surprised they committed to it 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.159 because there is in part because this is a tremendous 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.200 risk for Brag and the people around him. Right if 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.280 if this fails, which it very well might, you know, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.199 obviously that would have could have consequences for everybody, but 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.600 you know, it could have really serious career consequences for 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.440 this guy. And I am surprised that you've you've got 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.320 someone willing to kind of throw the dice here, and 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:48.160 I'm hopeful that maybe that inspires especially since this case, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.639 by the way, since I'm sure people are curious. No 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.120 one I've looked at who knows more about the law 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.320 than me expects this to hit trial quickly. Again, Trump 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.159 has all of the money in the world, and this 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.560 is like probably going to be a pretty winding process 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.680 outside of just the normal problems of like a rich 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.119 man is being accused of a series of crimes and 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.240 has many lawyers. The Secret Service has a lot to 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.720 say and when and how the actual trial part of 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.679 this commences, and that has a chance of extending it. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.119 So my hope is that as this kind of winds on, 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.399 maybe the fact that Bragg was willing to kind of 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.720 take a shot in the dark here, so to speak, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.000 inspires some of these other prosecutors who have been, you know, 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.439 poking at Trump to take a swing, and maybe with 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.359 enough swings, you know, it'll be like that guy we 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.439 had on Troy Hurtebes and his bear armor suit. You know, 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.320 you get a bunch of bikers to surround him with 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.480 two by fours and just swing. 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.560 Until they're all broken and he's on the ground. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.720 It'll be like that scene from a Vengers Endgame, and 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.520 all of the George Soros DA's are just. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.639 Garrison, absolutely not led by George. 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.359 Sorry, I've never been angrier at you right now than 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.200 bringing up that fucking Avenger scene. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:12.359 Yeah. So, did y'all watch Trump's video response. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:14.880 Oh, the one that played on all of the news 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:16.400 stations except for MSNBC. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.720 Yeah, yeah, we should talk. I actually did not watch it. Now. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.040 I attempted to avoid that as well. 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.760 Actually, well I watched it yourself to that for us, Robert, 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.480 I sure did, and I have a summary of the 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:33.280 most salient parts. First off, I think that MSNBC made 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.359 the right call. They kind of summarized what was going on, 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.200 but like didn't just let him speak, you know, uninterrupted, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.440 for it was like fifteen minutes, something like twenty minutes. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.440 I've interrupted, Robert, would you like to be interrupted by 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:48.760 some plugs for goods and services? 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:54.800 Absolutely? You and buddy, Donald Trump is a master spokesman 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.320 and these are master products. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.879 Get your goal. We're back. 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:02.680 Uh. 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:08.320 It's been such a glorious, glorious time. Everyone's everybody's really 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:14.919 feeling powerful today, mighty anyway, Trump. So, I don't know, 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.400 I watched this fucking thing. I guess my overall sentiment 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.639 would be kind of boring, right, This is not the 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.879 level of energy or the degree of kind of like 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:32.960 manic violent undercurrents that like his American Carnage speech had, 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.880 or even that like some of his more recent speeches 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.200 in front of crowds have had. I don't see. There's 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.800 so many people I've watched have takes on this who 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.639 are like and that. One of the joys of Twitter 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.840 is you'll see some guy who's I don't know, an 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.000 analyst at some newspaper be like, wow, Trump was really 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.480 low energy. He seems frightened. You know, I'm telling you, 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.080 this is a scared man. He's worried about these charges. 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.960 And then like someone else with almost the same CV 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.280 at a different place will be like wow, Trump seems angry. 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.720 You know, he's about to he's about to lash back. 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:09.200 Everybody better be ready for his counter strike. And honestly, 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.840 I just thought it was like kind of perfunctory. It 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.240 didn't see he certainly didn't seem low energy, but he 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:20.000 didn't seem like he had He didn't seem like he 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.600 had much to say other than kind of meander over 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:26.920 some of his some talking points that are at this 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:31.439 point mostly pretty lukewarm. He kind of runs through at 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.280 the start of this a laundry list of right wing 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.240 talking points that like the Democrats spied on his campaign 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.800 in twenty sixteen, that he was subjected to fraudulent investigations 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.439 from the Russia and Ukraine stuff to the impeachments to 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.120 the raid on mar A Lago. And then he broadens 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.520 it by talking about how the FBI and the DOJ 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.760 relentlessly pursue Republicans. And I was kind of expecting him 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.440 to lean more into the I am your vengeance shit 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.840 that he's been doing lately. He doesn't really as much 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.440 as I had expected him to in this Like you can, 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.679 he kind of like dips his toes into it, But 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.320 I think he's so focused on what's happening to him 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.480 that he doesn't he doesn't like push that as much 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:12.800 as I was kind of expecting. So this is what 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.080 comes after him like ranting about the DOJ and the 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:19.800 FBI relentlessly pursuing Republicans. He then kind of like goes 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.600 into the election fraud claimed stuff again. He gives a 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:25.920 bunch of lies there about the election, then about there 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.240 being like ballot stuffed and all that kind of shit. 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.960 Then he like pivots straight from that to talking about 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:33.960 how Twitter purportedly worked with the Biden family to hide 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:39.600 information about Hunter Biden. This is like debunked Twitter file shit. Yeah, 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.320 update on Twitter files. Matt to Beebe has just left 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:47.280 Twitter because post substances subseec. We do know obviously like 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.000 they did stuff like say hey, please remove this video 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:54.399 that shows Hunter Biden's penis, but also like that's not 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.439 number one is not supposed to be stuff that's on Twitter. 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.959 That's kind of like crossing the revenge porn line. And 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.800 you know, both sides made requests that things be removed. 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.240 Trump claims, and I'm not sure where he says that. 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:13.840 There's like like somebody calculated this, but I haven't been 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.200 able to find who made this calculation that if Twitter 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:19.960 hadn't intervened against him, he would have won the national 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:24.120 election by seventeen points. And then he's like, and that's 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.040 I didn't even need that many. You know, you could 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.200 have dropped that by sixteen point eight and I still 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:32.760 would have won, which is not true. Really again, it's 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:33.600 all just lies. 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:35.800 It goes on. 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.320 He compares the United States to a third world country 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.680 because of the twenty twenty election. He calls Alvin Bragg 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.800 a Soros backed prosecutor, which he does a lot. It's 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.480 not true, but brag. You know, people are using Soros 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:55.120 backed as like at least a lot of the Nazis 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.400 are are really leaping on that one. 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:00.600 Yeah, they've gone back to Soros, Like yeah, they did 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:04.200 the three parentheses for a while, like the Santis mentioned 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:07.360 stories at least twice in his place. Yeah. Yeah, it's 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.400 a big, big one for them. I mean, I think 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:10.679 it is. 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.600 It is it is a good move on their part 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:19.359 to frame this prosecution as election interference like that is 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:22.080 that is a smart move for them to get to 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:25.480 funnel all of this via that narrative. 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:30.200 Yeah, it helps keep the election fraud, all lies, lies, going. 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.879 It also helps because there's been a number of like, 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.040 you know, Chessa Buden who got booted in San Francisco 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:38.200 recently is one example. 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:40.919 But we've seen a number of like progressive. 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:44.199 Prosecutors get elected by kind of dim and you know, 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:49.080 center left coalitions, and that allows them to kind of 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.639 connect this to one of the more successful talking points 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.760 was is the purported like horrible violence in the streets 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:58.680 of cities like San Francisco and whatnot, the like surgeon 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.360 crime and liberal you know, cities with liberal prosecutors. Again, 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:06.320 it's all bullshit, but it's not a bad tactic for 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.160 tying into like, well, let's make a link between this 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.600 thing Trump is claiming that's hurting him and this thing 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:14.879 that people see every night on like Fox News that 0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:19.560 has been a pretty durable talking point for the right 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:20.560 for several years. 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:20.840 Now. 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:24.760 Trump makes it. There's a weird line in here where 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:27.200 he says that like even the Rhinos and the Democrats 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:29.000 agree that the case against him is bad. 0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:31.120 I'm not sure. 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.240 I mean, you know, I suspect he's just kind of 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:38.399 like looking at Twitter chaff there. He then kind of 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.240 derails a bit by talking about Afghanistan and all of 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:45.199 the military equipment and lives lost in the same breath, 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.639 and then from that he kind of one of the 0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:51.040 things that comes up over and over in this is 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.080 him talking about how embarrassing this time is for our country, 0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:56.960 how all of our enemies are laughing at us, et cetera. 0:26:57.119 --> 0:26:59.760 Like that is a I mean, he's been making that 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:03.760 point for a long time, but it definitely it's one 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:06.159 of those things I think is a little bit of 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:10.199 a window into the man's thought process, because he clearly 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:13.080 thinks and perhaps I mean it must have a degree 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:16.159 of resonance with his base, but the idea that like 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:22.600 America has been embarrassed because he's facing charges and because 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.080 of you know, Biden's failures as he sees it over 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:28.800 in Afghanistan and elsewhere, Like, embarrassment is a big thing 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:31.159 he tries to get across in this that like, you know, 0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:34.399 Lady Liberty's been caught with their fucking skirt up or 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:37.080 something like that. It's a I don't know, it's interesting 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:40.360 to me that that's such a focus for him. There's 0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:43.000 a couple of fun lines in the part about the military. 0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:44.879 He talks about how it's woke at the top, but 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:48.760 under him, it was able to defeat Isis in four weeks, which, man, 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:50.800 it took years, Like we know it took years. 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:53.399 I was there for some of it. It was a 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:55.560 large part of that was not Americans at all. 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:57.560 But no, no, in a large part of it was 0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.439 not Americans at all. There's a weird moment where he 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.280 talks about the investigation over his call with Selenski and 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:06.720 then that call where he tried to force Georgia's Secretary 0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:09.240 of State to discard votes that he's being investigated for, 0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:12.680 where he's like, this is one of like the most 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:15.320 beautiful Trump moments of the whole speech, because he's like, 0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:17.720 you know, that perfect call I had with Selensky, I 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:19.840 told you all was a perfect call. Where my call 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:22.840 with Georgia's secretary of state was even more perfect. It 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:26.119 was the best call anybody's ever had. Nobody had a 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.520 problem with it. Lots of guys were listening in and 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:29.639 they all thought it was great. 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:31.280 It's just. 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:37.520 He can be such a funny man. It's not even insane. 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:41.959 It's just like, I don't know, nobody else talks like that. 0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:45.760 Nobody else describes a phone call as perfect, right, like 0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:48.400 a normal And this is maybe there's a degree of 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.120 Trump's success you can see in this, But like, no 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:55.400 normal person being accused of like having attempted to interfere 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:58.000 with an election during a phone call would describe the 0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:00.840 call as perfect. You know, a normal call politician would 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.160 refute the claims against them, would say, you know, I 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.240 never did this, I never did that. You know this 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.880 is taken out of context or whatever. Trump's just like 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:11.360 it was perfect. But you don't remember the last perfect 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:13.240 call I told you about that people thought might have 0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:16.360 been a crime. Even more perfect. This is the most 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:20.840 perfect phone call anyone's ever had. Yeah, then we get 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:24.920 along derailment about the Biden, like, you know, the classified 0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:27.720 document shit that got him rated. He talks about how 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:31.520 Biden's possession of classified documents was like the worst that 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:34.040 anyone's ever done and was criminal because he was just 0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:36.479 the vice president. But the president's allowed to do it, 0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:39.000 but everybody does it, but the way Biden did is 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:43.040 the worst that anybody did it. Yeah, it's like, I 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.920 don't know, it's there. It's not like it's not an 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:52.120 interesting Trump speech. I don't think he's like panicked or anything. 0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:54.880 I just kind of I don't know, maybe he's just 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:56.760 sort of like checking off a thing on the to 0:29:56.880 --> 0:29:59.320 do box. But it's not it's not one of the 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:01.640 it's not one for the speech books, right or for 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:03.720 the history books. I don't know the speech books. That's 0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:06.160 not a that's not a thing. That's not a thing 0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:09.280 at all. There is a really fun moment where he's 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.920 like kind of late in the speech, in between him 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:15.320 complaining about Letitia James, he like points to his sons 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:18.440 and he's like, I got two great sons, sons both 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.040 doing really great. And then he's like and bear, and 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.840 then as an afterthought, he's like, Baron's gonna do a 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:25.040 great job too, someday. 0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:31.640 He's tall, an amazing father talking of told did you 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:33.680 see that they do? Also, they faked a mugshot of 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:37.600 him and made him six foot five? Who faked the 0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:41.040 mug shot? The Trump campaign faked a mug shot of 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:45.320 him to sell much that just added like several inches 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.480 to his A man with no insecurities. 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:55.120 Trump a legalist arc. I'm not saying there's nothing to 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.320 be concerned about in the right wing reaction here. It 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.320 is worth kind of looking at the response that has 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:06.280 occurred has largely been fucking nonsense circus shit. Right, At 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:09.560 most of the big rallies, particularly in New York that 0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.000 have happened as a result of this, there have been 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.720 more press on the ground than anyone on either side 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:20.280 of things. Yeah, it's not it's just so far not 0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:23.320 pulling people out, you know. Do I think there's a 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:28.479 chance of you know, isolated terrorist attacks as you know, 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:33.280 by people who see themselves as defending Trump or democracy 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.600 or whatever. Certainly not a zero percent chance. But in 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:40.080 terms of like things that I think are likely to 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.120 have a mass to stabilizing effect, I'm not seeing it yet. 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.479 And I think a lot of that's due just to 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:49.600 the fact that the Trump supporters who are kind of 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:53.240 have the highest potential of being convinced to do that shit, 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.640 are all scared as hell, both of the FEDS and 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.520 of each other. The sheer number of them that have 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.600 like turned not each other during the j sixth investigations 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:07.480 like has means that whenever there's talk about doing another 0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:10.320 big series of rallies, it devolves in a lot of 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:14.080 these online places into like, well, you know, this is 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.760 probably being set up by the Feds. This is probably 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:20.400 a honeypot to trap us, which is I don't know, 0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:22.960 it's not a situation. I would say you should rely 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.720 on lasting forever, but that does kind of seem to 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:26.800 be where we are right now. 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:29.400 One other aspect of the right wing response that I 0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:33.000 think is worth mentioning is they have is some of 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:38.040 some of their like propagandists and political people have made 0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:42.640 the promise that since since now, since that now there's 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:47.280 been a precedent set for indicting for former presidents. Now 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:52.400 now they finally are able to go after Democratic politicians 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:56.160 whenever they want. And yeah, I just I just am 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:58.680 worried that they're going to threaten us with a good time. 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:05.240 Yeah yeah, And it's it's also like it's not just 0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:07.800 threatening us with a good time, because we have seen 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:11.360 in Tennessee right now they're forcing two Democratic legislators out 0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.280 for their support of gun control and like you know. 0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:18.080 Black Democratic yeah too, black Democratic legislators. 0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:20.840 I'm not, you know, in line with most of the 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.800 Democratic Party on gun control. But what is happening here 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:27.600 is anti democratic bullshit like that is it is authoritarian. 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.840 It is completely fucking unacceptable, and people ought to be 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.560 out in this like a lot more ought to be done, 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:36.880 and I think probably a lot more Like I don't 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.960 this that's one of the thorny questions that actually does 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:43.240 concern me, Like what do you do in a situation 0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.440 like this? What do the what kind of leverage do 0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.840 the Feds even potentially have? It certainly doesn't look like 0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:51.400 they're in the mood to do anything now, because I 0:33:51.440 --> 0:33:54.040 think that's the kind of that's the kind of thing 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:55.960 we're going to see a lot more of in red 0:33:56.000 --> 0:33:59.520 states in order that what little resistance at listen, and 0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:01.200 that's concerning. 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:04.440 They're not gonna go after someone like Obama, which frankly somebody, 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:06.360 somebody should for the amount of that. 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:10.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah, there should be charges against the man. 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:13.880 There should be charges against Bush. Uh, you know, the doves, 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:17.400 there should be some charges against Clinton. Fuck it, go 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.440 after them, all right, yeah yeah, yeah, you dig up 0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:21.600 George H. W. 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:24.279 Bush put them on trial as a corpse like that one. 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:26.000 Pope Like, I'm on board. 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.040 But no, they're gonna they're gonna end up going after 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:34.120 there's like small like minority politicians who are like yeah, 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.279 fighting for like reasonable things, you know. 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.400 And who are doing things to actually jam up the 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:44.280 works of kind of the march of far right. Yeah, 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:50.839 authoritarian laws Red States exactly. And you know, I am 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.560 sure that as that picks up pace, they will point 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:57.239 out what's being done to Trumps a justification, But like 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:01.160 people should be aware that it's not why they're doing it. 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.719 They're doing it because it looks like it's going to 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:05.680 work for them in Tennessee. And they did it in 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:07.880 Tennessee for the reasons that had nothing to do with 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:08.479 fucking Trump. 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.120 Yeah, right, Yeah. If you want to talk about like 0:35:12.320 --> 0:35:14.600 what fascism makes a big part of it, is that 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:17.680 weaponizing of the state apparatus, right, yes, against a position 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.480 against you, whatever your escapegoat group, And like that does 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.600 concern me for people living in Red State. 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:27.520 Absolutely absolutely. I'm not saying there's nothing to be worried 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:30.880 about from the right. I'm just saying, at the moment, 0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:32.880 when I'm looking at like the way I kind of 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:35.480 conceive of a threat matrix, I don't see us in 0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:39.360 a more dangerous position as a result of Trump getting charged. 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:41.560 And I think an argument could be made that it's 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:42.520 a positive move. 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.359 I really hope we get another nail gun guy. Oh man. 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:50.360 Yeah, that fucking dude who tried who tried to solo 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:52.240 the FBI with a nail gun. 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:55.600 Maybe a net girl come in with like a jigsaw 0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:57.280 or a. 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:59.200 Yeah no, no, no, no, I think I think ladders. 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.840 I think it's it's it's time for like a ladder 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:06.320 mob that that's that's what I'm excited to see. Ladders 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:08.520 and like simple pulleys. 0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:11.319 It's getting pinned to a building with someone twenty feet 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:15.800 away with a ladder. Make a make a tributchet judge, 0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.439 it's the Gorne has been thrown down. 0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:22.520 Yeah, let's let's let's have a continuing series of competitions 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:25.840 to see who can build like the most effective medieval 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.480 siege equipment. I want to see some fucking scorpions up 0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:29.000 on the hill. 0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.040 You know I'm going to do? Is it Greek fire? 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:32.879 Turkish fire? 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:35.839 When you put yeah, I mean that really that's a boy. 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:37.800 That's like the Hums debate. James, you don't. 0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:44.040 It's Cypress fire and we can be fine. 0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:47.400 I don't know where where you guys get any of 0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:53.800 their thoughts on the Trump arraignment, indictment, arrest et No. 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.719 It's very funny. I did enjoy seeing that guy fall 0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:57.319 off his tour bike. That was a highlight of the 0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:57.799 week for me. 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.160 Yeah, there was a good video from the New York 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:02.239 Protest of a guy falling off a tall bike. 0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:03.759 Yeah, shout out to skateboard. 0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:08.359 I will, I will, let's see, I will send send 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:12.840 a few things to the chat. This is the signal 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:15.600 chat that I feel like people are worth seeing. This 0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:17.520 is what I spent this is what I spent most 0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:23.600 of my day doing, is sending people these memes. I 0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:25.239 think it's important that. 0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:27.239 That is that is that Ruth bader Ginsburg with a 0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:29.920 biggie crown saying, tell Donald, I want him to know 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:30.920 it was me, Garrison. 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:36.480 Yes, that is No, you're joking. I if I if 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:43.880 I actually see Ruth bend again for Funck's sake, Rakai 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.759 with a pussy hat. Oh god, looks like brunches back 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.520 on the menu. Boys. That one I do appreciate. 0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:58.120 Yeah, there was there was a good one that was 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:03.640 like it was like the jailer dropping off Trump in 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:06.440 Epstein's cell, all all of all of all of the 0:38:06.520 --> 0:38:09.040 lights go off, and then from the corner, a man 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:11.880 in a dark cloak says Brandonson's his regard. 0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:18.520 What a wonderful time for memes. 0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:23.480 Well, everybody, that's our that's our episode on the Trump arrest, 0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:27.040 we figured we should we should talk about that to 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:30.200 answer the question that so many people ask me, are 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.680 we closeer to having a civil war? I don't know, man, 0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:35.000 it doesn't. It doesn't feel like this. This has moved 0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:36.040 the needle on that at all. 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:40.279 The national divorce is happening any day now, any day now, 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:41.480 I swear like. 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.040 I think the thing that's worrying right now is, you know, 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:48.800 not just kind of the low level series of exchanges 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:52.920 of terror attacks and shootings and murders and stuff and 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:56.200 just street violence that I do think is going to 0:38:56.280 --> 0:38:58.439 kind of continue to be a problem up through twenty 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:01.440 twenty four, but also just like what we've been talking 0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:05.000 about in terms of Red states pushing for these increasingly 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:10.040 really violent laws aimed at doing direct physical harm to 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:13.480 small groups of people that they consider to be their 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:19.120 enemies for whatever reason of identity. That is, like the 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.480 increasing criminalization of groups of people in Red States, the 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:27.040 flight of folks from those states, the fact that you 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:29.920 are kind of seeing the country settle into two blocks 0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:33.080 that have wildly different legal systems that are often opposed 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:38.200 to each other. That's a conflict that is absolutely happening. 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:40.480 There's no denying that it's occurring. This is not a 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:45.879 debatable thing, and I don't see the FEDS having any 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:50.520 idea of how to fix this at the moment. We'll 0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:52.920 see where the elections go in twenty twenty four. The 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:57.480 fact that Wisconsin that their Supreme Court election went well. 0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:58.120 Means a lot. 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:03.040 It means that that's one st where the process that 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:07.200 we're seeing happening in places like Florida and Tennessee. That 0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:11.120 is a significant amount of people protected from that. And 0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:13.480 it also means a lot for the twenty twenty four election. 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:18.440 But it's we are in a really rough place still. 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:23.200 I'm not like thinking we're in at the edge of 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.000 seventeen seventy six point two or whatever the fuck the 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:28.680 right way these day, Yeah, eighteen sixty. 0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:30.840 Five or whatever. Robert Evans is going to personally be 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:36.799 the next John Brown, Yeah, I hopefully not, But I am. 0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:37.319 I am. 0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:40.640 I think I'd be really good at a being a 0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:41.600 terrible farmer. 0:40:42.880 --> 0:40:48.759 As you read, Yeah, ehh yeah, that picture of John 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:51.040 Brown like leading the troops will remain one of my 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:51.840 favorite pieces. 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.799 Oh yeah, no, no, he's got he's got a hell 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:56.799 of a beard in that one. Yeah, I don't know, 0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:00.719 I think the threat, you know, contain in use. But 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:06.920 broadly speaking, what's happened to Trump is either good or neutral, 0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:09.600 but certainly funny. And that's I think a good point 0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:10.480 to end on for the day. 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:30.320 Agreed, Brandon sends his regards, Okay, everything's recording. 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:32.120 My cat is grooming herself. 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:35.880 So when I was the time, very great, but she 0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:36.480 just used that. 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:40.560 As Okay, I mean, I'm fine with that. 0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:44.960 Whatever, Okay, let's do it. That's very true, is grooming herself, 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:47.759 and that means that this is it could happen here. 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.440 And I am James Stout and I'm joined by Sharen 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:55.000 units yes, and not not her cat. 0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:58.800 She's just she's just rowdy and I have to really 0:41:59.040 --> 0:42:03.120 sometimes plan recording times around her schedule. And it's that's 0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:05.080 just the way my life is now, and that's yeah, 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.719 that's the attention she deserves. None of this is important. Yeah, 0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:11.920 you're care but it's a bit of a serious one, sadly. 0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:15.000 So I want to talk more again about the border, 0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:18.120 something we've spoken about a little bit and something I 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:21.279 kind of want to keep coming back to because things 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:24.680 haven't really got any better. In fact, they've potentially got worse. 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:27.760 So where I want to start is last month and 0:42:27.800 --> 0:42:30.000 we're recording this and what the fourth of April, so 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:32.800 just over a week ago, I think a fire and 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:35.560 a detation the twenty eighth it okay, yeah, what's that? 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:38.800 Three? Yeah? A week ago? A week ago today, a 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:41.839 fire in a detention center in Suda, Juada's killed forty 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:45.520 one migrants being detained. There were than two dozen other 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:48.640 people were seriously injured, and every single one of the 0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:53.399 about one hundred people detained in the migrant detention center 0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:57.600 was hurt in the fire. The reason that every single 0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.160 person was hurt became clear and a video obtained by 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:05.560 Texas Public Radio and later confirmed by the government in Mexico. 0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:08.080 It shows two people dressed as guards rush into the 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:10.640 camera frame. You can see people in the cells just 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:14.520 really pulling and kicking and beating on the bars. The 0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:16.640 guards sort of run up to the doors, but they 0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.040 don't really appear to make any effort to open them 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:21.280 or to let the people out of the cells. Instead, 0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:23.680 they hurry away as clouds of smoke begin to fill 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:27.279 the corners of the cells. Gradually, the smoke fills up 0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:29.799 the whole screen until you can't see anything else. Than 0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:31.319 the men in the cells are left to die. 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:33.880 It's horrifying. 0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:38.920 Yeah, it's one of the worst deaths that's available to 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:41.880 a human being. And the fact that people who are 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:46.560 already incredibly desperate and have taken huge risks to get 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:50.480 there and died like literally yards from the United States 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:54.759 border is just it's almost kind of unfathomably cruel. But 0:43:55.840 --> 0:43:58.520 what is in a way crueler is this statement made 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:02.160 by the US Ambassador to Mexico, Ken Salazar. He said 0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:06.120 the tragedy illustrated the dangerous grifts in traveling north, and 0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:08.280 he cited the loss of life in two recent smuggling 0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:11.760 incidents in San Antonio in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas. 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:15.520 These cases, he said, are a reminder of the risks 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:19.759 of irregular migration. But what we're talking about here is 0:44:19.800 --> 0:44:22.480 in a consequence of irregular migration, really right, because these 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:26.320 people weren't in the hands of criminals or coyotes or cartels, 0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:28.600 that they were in the hands of the Mexican government 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:32.440 when they died. And for him to blame this on 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:36.279 irregular migration, I think is very indicative of the way 0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:40.880 the bad aministration has approached migration. Policy, which is to 0:44:41.640 --> 0:44:45.040 try and always obfuscate and shirk the responsibility for the 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:47.120 cruel things that it's doing, for the consequences of its 0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:51.200 policies and its actions, which I want to get into more. 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:53.799 I don't want to linger on this fire too much 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:59.399 because a it's onfathomably awful and like I don't think 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:01.640 it I don't. I think we need to spend hours 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.000 and hours like going over something for people to know 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:07.959 that there is no situation in which the government should 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:15.080 burn fucking forty people alive that like it's inexcusable. We 0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:17.200 know that, like it was. The shelter was set up 0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:20.920 in twenty nineteen, and I want to get into why 0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:24.040 this shelter, which seems to have been a pretty terrible 0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:26.120 condition to begin with, was set up in twenty nineteen, 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:30.560 Why people who claim to the United States to try 0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:32.200 and have a better life for safe for life, ended 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:35.200 up in a shelter in Mexico, and how we've created 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:37.960 a system where people keep dying at our southern border. Right, 0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:40.359 some of this will be stuff we've covered before. If 0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:42.040 people have listened to the other stuff I've done on 0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:45.720 the border, if people have listened to the Butterfly Sanctuary episodes. 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:47.920 They'll be familiar with some of Biden's border policies, but 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:49.560 I wanted to address these. 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:52.359 Did you see that they lowered the death toll from 0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:54.800 forty to thirty eight? I guess after hospital visits, Like 0:45:54.880 --> 0:45:57.680 that's the one part that I've read that is nice 0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:58.359 so far as. 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:01.640 That's yeah, that's good. I've seen thirty eight, thirty nine, 0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:05.400 and forty one. It wasn't sure what the exactly, so 0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:06.680 thirty eight is the news. 0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:09.759 Right now, I'm reading thirty eight after it was it 0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:11.520 was forty and it was lowered to thirty eight. 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:14.120 Okay, well two people were re animated. 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:18.120 Yeah, I mean it's I mean, it's just like they're 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:22.879 probably a terrible condition they're having, like life changing if 0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:25.080 not like all, like it's just terrible now. 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:27.239 Yeah, And like access to care for those people, I 0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:29.720 mean those people may have access to care, right because 0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:31.880 what happened was high profile with the news, but like 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:34.399 generally access to care for people like I have seen 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:39.080 I've seen a person die because they don't have access 0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:42.480 to their medicines that are very cheap or very easily available. 0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:47.839 Like again, like we are talking feet, like I could 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:49.719 throw a tennis ball into the United States and where 0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:54.520 it was stilling. And that's because the system treats people 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:55.560 like numbers, not people. 0:46:56.920 --> 0:47:00.800 Yeah, migration center is like a jail, you know what 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:01.160 I mean. 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:04.000 It doesn't even Yeah, it's like an old timey fucking 0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:07.719 Western jail with people crammed into cells with you know, 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:12.080 like legit bars on the walls. So shelter conditions in 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:15.759 Mexican detention are often very poor, and those conditions have 0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:19.320 been exacerbated by something called Title forty two. People have 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:22.160 probably heard about Title forty two a lot. There's a 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:24.400 lot to say about Title forty two, but very briefly, 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:27.680 it's a trumpier of public health policy that invokes a 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:30.560 public health rule to push asylum seekers out the US 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.279 and into Mexico, regardless of whether or not they might 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:37.200 legally qualify for asylum. This shelter was stood up as 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:41.520 a consequence of something called the Migrant Protection Protocol. People 0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:43.880 call it the Migrant Persecution Protocol because that's more accurate. 0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:46.200 But I was going to say, like, Wow, doing a 0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:47.400 great job with that. 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:51.879 Yeah, Like people enjoy being wrong about George or well, 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:54.640 but this shit is perfectly or welly in Oh yeah, 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:58.400 to call that policy which kills little fucking children. The 0:47:58.480 --> 0:48:03.200 migroant protectional policy is is dark they called. It's often 0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:07.160 called remain in Mexico as well, which is what it does. 0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:09.760 It requires people to remain in Mexico while their asylum 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:12.120 claim is processed, despite the fact that this might not 0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:14.640 be a safe country for them, and that this might 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:18.920 violate various international laws and conventions on asylum, but the 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:21.319 US doesn't subscribe to all of those. As we're going 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:24.919 to find out now. Title forty two has been through 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:28.640 some legal ping pong recently, right with Biden's sort of 0:48:29.880 --> 0:48:31.960 trying to get rid of it, also defind of getting 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:35.120 caught a bunch of conservative states suing to keep it. 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:38.480 So it's explained a little bit of where we're at 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:41.400 with Title forty two right now. It's actually set to 0:48:41.480 --> 0:48:46.200 expire on May the eleventh. The Biden administration is rolling 0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:49.520 out plans that will continue to restrict migrant access after 0:48:49.640 --> 0:48:52.240 May the eleventh, because they're concerned about like a large 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:56.440 influx of migrants, which I just want to point out 0:48:56.560 --> 0:48:59.919 was always going to fucking happen when you like push 0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:02.440 people just the other side of your fictional line in 0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:04.160 the sand, and at some point you're going to have 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:07.120 to start, because at some point, Mexico is already the 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:10.000 third most popular country in the world for asylum, and 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:13.880 you can't force this all on them. So since it 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:16.439 was first implemented in twenty twenty, the government has used 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:19.320 Title forty two to expel migrants from the US Mexico 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:24.640 border nearly two point seven million times. That doesn't mean 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:31.200 you will see these statistics quoted constantly, credulously by people 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:33.120 who don't understand what the fuck they're talking about, and 0:49:33.160 --> 0:49:35.279 it really makes me angry. That doesn't mean two point 0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:39.760 seven million people, right, Because Title forty two makes people 0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:43.200 cross more than once. It creates this kind of loop 0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:47.879 where DHS right normally CBP or a border patrol sorry, 0:49:48.040 --> 0:49:51.200 picks people up and dumps them back in Mexico without 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:54.719 processing them. And those people are now in a place 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:56.640 they don't know, they don't have any family, that have 0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:59.600 any hope, they don't have any money, and all they 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:02.279 do is is kick their heels until they can find 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:04.200 a way to cross again, or someone to cross them again. 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:07.359 And sometimes people who are facilitating those crossings will offer 0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:11.320 them unlimited crossings, so they they'll pay someone to smuggle 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.680 them across, right, and that person will say, well, you 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:15.040 get unlimited crossings. 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:18.560 Like I didn't even realize. I didn't know it was 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:23.000 so like standard. They're like, Okay, this is gonna happen. 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:24.560 You're gonna get a limited crossing, you know what I mean. 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:26.320 Like there's like they're expecting it to be this like 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:27.439 perpetual loop. 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:30.360 Yeah, I mean they a few years ago, maybe they 0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:33.200 wouldn't have done. But another way that this is sometimes 0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:35.800 termed a catch and release, which they're not fucking fish. 0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:38.960 You shouldn't do that to fish either. It's not really 0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:39.439 nice to fish. 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:41.239 But it's humanizing. 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:45.919 Yeah, it's extremely fucking dehumanizing, right, And what it does 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.000 and what I've seen, what I'm not it's not like 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:51.719 a unique insight of mine, is that it forces people 0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.759 to cross in more and more dangerous areas. Like you 0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:57.920 combine that with a wall and the fact that like 0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:00.359 it's very well documented that the Trump administration and wanted 0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:03.280 to maximize the amount of miles of wall that built. 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:06.640 If you remember, in one of the presidential debates, he 0:51:06.719 --> 0:51:09.000 made a claim about a certain number of miles of 0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:11.640 a new wall he built. Yeah, he was just speaking 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:15.239 out of his ass I foied it like the next day, 0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:19.839 and they were like they provided a number of different 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:23.560 numbers or many of which relied heavily on repairing existing 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:27.359 border fence, but they just went like hammer and Tong 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:29.920 was trying to build new sections of wall to include 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:34.040 skipping areas where it was harder to build valleys, mountains, 0:51:34.080 --> 0:51:36.879 that kind of thing. Right, So what this wall does 0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:40.160 is it forces people through the areas where it's hardest 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:42.240 to cross, and those are the areas where it's easiest 0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:46.800 to die. And so these people are now forced to 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:49.200 make risky and risky of crossings to try and avoid 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:53.319 getting caught, or to wait in Mexico where they are 0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:55.560 at a very high risk of abduction or sexual assault, 0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:57.719 extortion or violence. Right, And will come on to maybe 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.160 a couple of those stories later, just from people I've 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:04.200 talked to. The result of this policy is that border 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:06.840 cities in Mexico are flooded with migrants, and often with 0:52:07.000 --> 0:52:10.640 soldiers sent there to supposedly keep the peace. Last month, 0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:14.000 the Mexican National Guard and the immigration authorities raided a 0:52:14.040 --> 0:52:18.280 hotel full of Venezuelan migrants in Hualez. Local news applets 0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:21.360 reported that the migrants there'stly young men threw stones at 0:52:21.400 --> 0:52:24.120 the officials and there broad ensued and eventually they called 0:52:24.120 --> 0:52:28.160 off the raid. In another incident, authorities raided the church 0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:30.560 and dragged off a number of Venezuelan migrants who have 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:33.400 been given sanctuary there. Some were beaten, and one advocate 0:52:33.440 --> 0:52:38.279 said they were essentially tortured. This prompted, yeah, this is horrific, right, 0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:40.600 like a lot of so a lot of the young 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:44.120 men in the it was all men in the detention 0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:46.600 center that caught fire, and most of them were from Venezuela, 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:50.880 place where I've lived in Venezuela. I have a lot 0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:52.040 of sympathy for those people. 0:52:52.440 --> 0:52:57.239 And yeah, she actually I found like a breakdown. I 0:52:57.320 --> 0:53:01.640 guess if there is thirteen Hundurians, twelve Soans, twelve Venezuelans 0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:05.600 are Colombian and an Ecuadorian, So I mean even that's crazy, 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:08.760 like there's so many people from all of those countries. 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:09.680 It's I don't know. 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:14.000 Yeah, we'll see a bit later that there are certain pathways, 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:16.840 like for Venice Whalen people, there are some pathways that 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:20.239 don't exist through other people that they're not insufficient and 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:24.879 they're there. How do I say this unfair? But sort 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:28.200 of they exist. But yeah, those people from from those countries. 0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:29.799 We see a lot of Haitian people at the border 0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:34.440 here too, but yeah, that's a pretty common kind of 0:53:35.120 --> 0:53:40.120 like border mix up, right of folks. Unfortunately, often you 0:53:40.160 --> 0:53:43.000 won't see Haitian folks that there are sort of segregations 0:53:43.040 --> 0:53:45.279 even within the migrant community, and often Haitian folks is 0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:47.520 kind of segregated out, which is which. 0:53:47.360 --> 0:53:50.120 Is unfortunately, Like I thought the horror as well as 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:53.760 kind of that the population breakdown, Like wouldn't the Haitian 0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:57.640 border crossing be like somewhere else? 0:53:58.680 --> 0:54:01.640 I don't think to say it's it's not dumb at all. 0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:04.640 I don't know what the breakdown. I know there are 0:54:04.680 --> 0:54:06.960 Haitian people in Juaes. I know there are the Cuban 0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:08.600 folks in Juila's too, and they've kind of some of 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:10.799 them have stayed in Juarez and established kind of their 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:15.040 own communities and that's had some sort of some negative 0:54:15.040 --> 0:54:17.359 results for antimagrant feeling and Juadas. From what I've heard, 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:20.360 I know there are a lot of Haitian folks in Tijuana. 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:24.719 A lot of the Haitian people come via Brazil where 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:27.759 they've spent time like preparing for the Olympics that were 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:30.200 there and building stadium and stuff. So a lot of 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:32.040 them tell me they've come up from Brazil. And then 0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:35.239 obviously with like increased violence in Haiti, now you'll see 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:37.920 more Haitian people. Again, there's a decent Haitian community that 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:41.200 also is established in Tijuana and has it's that is 0:54:41.280 --> 0:54:42.480 their home now, right, Like I. 0:54:42.560 --> 0:54:44.759 Had no idea to be honest, so now I know, 0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:46.960 I'll accept being a little bit dumb. 0:54:47.080 --> 0:54:49.759 So everyone not at all, not at all. It's not 0:54:49.960 --> 0:54:54.919 very well reported on, and I think it's honestly people 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:57.440 have stopped reporting on it since twenty twenty as well, 0:54:57.480 --> 0:55:01.000 like since like Orange Man bad stop being like the 0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:05.279 prevailing like mass media message, no one gives a fuck 0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:08.640 about microsof anymore, Like there's a pronounced drop off when 0:55:08.680 --> 0:55:11.920 a cross of people and I don't know, there are 0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:13.920 some very good reporters, of course, you know, we've spoken 0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:16.080 to some of them in Tijuana and in San Diego. 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:20.520 But yeah, you just there was a lot of parachute 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:22.920 reporting on migration in the Trump era, some of it 0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:26.960 very bad, some of it by people who didn't have 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:31.040 the language skills to be working there and didn't understand 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.520 what was respectful and what wasn't and things like that. 0:55:33.760 --> 0:55:36.880 So I have strong feelings about how the migrant caravan 0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:41.160 in twenty eighteen was reported on, for instance. But yeah, 0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:44.360 you'll definitely see a ton of Haitian people and that 0:55:44.840 --> 0:55:49.239 Biden has gone exceptionally hard. I'll I'll include a link 0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:50.600 at the bottom of like a piece I wrote for 0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:55.719 NBC about Biden's anty Haitian bullshit but like exceptionally hard, 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:57.920 specifically against the Haitian. So so you can find a 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:02.240 tweet from the Haitia the United States Embassy in Haiti, 0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:04.120 where it's just got a picture of Biden, and I 0:56:04.200 --> 0:56:08.960 think it says, don't come I'm paraphrasing. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:12.600 it's wild, Like you don't see this in other countries either, 0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:16.480 even you know they've made like they've made there's a 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.879 ton of special exemptions for people from Ukraine. Right, it's 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:20.760 hard not to see. 0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:23.280 That, of course, yeah, of course it's Ukraine. 0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:26.440 Yeah, yeah, right, because it's also. 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:28.600 Great, but also you have to look at the like 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:29.399 why did that happen? 0:56:30.239 --> 0:56:34.080 Right, And if we can't like express like Russian bombs 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:36.319 kill kids in the m R two. Russian bombs kill 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:39.080 kids all over fucking Africa, and if we can't have 0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:41.640 solidarity with them, or we can with Ukrainian people, then 0:56:42.200 --> 0:56:43.640 it's hard for me not to see that as to 0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:46.640 do with their skin color. Yeah, then that is bullshit, 0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:49.160 and so yeah, Title forty two were end in May 0:56:49.840 --> 0:56:54.520 when the COVID Public Health Emergency Order expires. Biden said 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.840 earlier on that he would end Title forty two. He 0:56:56.920 --> 0:56:59.719 then faced these lawsuits from conservative states, but at the 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:02.680 same time that by the administration fiercely defended Title forty 0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:06.280 two litigation brought by the ACLU and other groups challenging 0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:09.920 the policy. Even the CDC right the CDC Center for 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:11.920 the Dida's Control was like, now the shit isn't necessary 0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:15.640 and it's cool, we should stop. The government has argued 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:18.160 the public health concerns letting migrants into the country due 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:21.560 to continued threat of COVID nineteen outweigh the possible harms 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:25.680 done to migrants who return to cities like nogals Ijuana, 0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:29.320 Like you don't even need a COVID test to fly 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:32.000 into this country now, I don't think right, Like if 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:34.880 my family come visit me, so the end of the 0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.360 emergency kind of makes that a moot point, right, Like 0:57:37.440 --> 0:57:39.320 you can't have a public health order to protect us 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:42.080 from it, which you're saying isn't a problem anymore. But 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:45.680 the damage that this has done will take years to rectify, 0:57:46.000 --> 0:57:49.600 and the backlog that it's created is already being used 0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:53.040 as an excuse to do more cruel and inhumane things 0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:55.439 to people who are just looking for a fair crack 0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:58.280 at life. Srean, do you know what won't build a 0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:01.640 wall around itself forced people to risk their life to 0:58:01.680 --> 0:58:01.960 get here? 0:58:02.360 --> 0:58:04.080 You tell me, James, what is it? 0:58:04.680 --> 0:58:08.840 It is these silver coins that have Ronald Reagan on them, 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:14.120 who probably outflanks our current immigration policy. Guy, yep, Uncle 0:58:14.280 --> 0:58:19.480 ron Okay, we're back, Thank you, Ronald Reagan. Or maybe 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:21.160 it was a gold advert. I hope it was a 0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:23.800 gold eavic so I know that everyone enjoys so so much. 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:28.160 Please don't message Sophie about the fucking gold things. 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:31.120 We know, yeah, we know, we know, trust us, we know. 0:58:31.560 --> 0:58:31.760 Yeah. 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:33.960 It's also it's just funny. It's funny to me that 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:37.440 someone is buying gold adverts, and presumably none of our 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:40.240 listeners are buying gold, and yet I have healthcare now. 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:43.800 I mean it must be working somewhere, like you know 0:58:43.840 --> 0:58:46.200 what I mean, why how else would they afford to 0:58:46.320 --> 0:58:49.640 keep advertising. I don't know, someone's doing something. 0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:52.360 It's one guy. 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:57.200 If you are that steadfast listener who buys everything we advertise, 0:58:57.480 --> 0:59:01.360 like so much for our projects. We salute your dedication. 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:06.720 So Biden hasn't really come up with a distinctive immigration 0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:09.960 policy of his own yet. Mostly he's just kind of 0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:12.400 failed to undo the damage Trump is done created a 0:59:12.480 --> 0:59:14.640 two TiO system in which white Ukrainians get to slip 0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:17.760 the line while back and brown migrants weight terrible conditions, 0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:21.439 And for some reason, he's gone as hard as fuck 0:59:21.560 --> 0:59:24.360 as he can to stop patients coming here, which the 0:59:24.480 --> 0:59:27.320 reason might be pretty obvious to some of you. Oh 0:59:27.560 --> 0:59:29.640 and we're still building the wall, but we're calling it 0:59:29.720 --> 0:59:33.280 a barrier now of course. Yeah, it's totally different brand, 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:35.720 yeah bread, Yeah, it doesn't have a little plate on 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:39.040 the top. It's a slightly different shape. You can, like, 0:59:39.120 --> 0:59:40.760 if you scroll back far enough on my Twitter, you 0:59:40.800 --> 0:59:43.000 can find comparison pictures of the Biden barrier and the 0:59:43.040 --> 0:59:43.520 Trump Wall. 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:45.880 But it's like literally just like a glow up, like 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:48.360 like a terrible horrifying glow up. 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:51.360 Yes, yeah, the walls having its a little it's a 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:54.919 freedom wall now or something. But if you don't follow 0:59:54.960 --> 0:59:59.680 the Butterfly Sanctuary as well, high value Twitter account sometimes 1:00:00.440 --> 1:00:03.880 stealing automatic rifles, not stealing, i should say, but National 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:06.919 Guard leaving automatic rifles on our property that she takes 1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:09.000 care of. But yeah, you can listen to our batter 1:00:09.040 --> 1:00:11.920 Fly Sanctuary episodes for more on like the Biden barrier. 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:16.040 But we're more than halfway through Biden's term now, and 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:19.120 we're beginning to see him take aim at something resembling 1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:21.640 a border policy on his own at the same time, 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:23.600 because we're more than halfway through his term, or perhaps 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:26.560 just because he never intended to fulfill his campaign policies 1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:30.480 about being kind to migrants, he's tried to move towards 1:00:30.560 --> 1:00:33.280 the center, and the center of US politics is like 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:35.760 somewhere to the right of Attila the Hund these days. 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:40.200 So he's been hit pretty hard by the Republicans on immigration, 1:00:40.360 --> 1:00:43.080 and it's worth pointing out that he's been hit pretty 1:00:43.120 --> 1:00:45.960 hard on largely on just shit that's made up or 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:51.640 misunderstandings of this. The number of interactions that border patrol 1:00:51.680 --> 1:00:54.240 has or wilful or on wilful, I don't know, but 1:00:55.520 --> 1:00:58.720 many of the cretiques are in pretty bad faith. But nonetheless, 1:00:58.800 --> 1:01:00.920 like it's been an area where they've criticized him, right, 1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:05.320 And so he's trying to move towards the quote unquote 1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:08.480 center on that with these new policies. So he's proposed 1:01:08.480 --> 1:01:12.040 that his administration has proposed something called a transit band, 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:15.720 So transit band, people might remember, And the initial kind 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:19.000 of proposal of this was made by Stephen Miller due 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:22.120 to looks like a lollipop and also like a white nationalist. 1:01:22.440 --> 1:01:23.200 That's a great. 1:01:24.600 --> 1:01:28.560 His head is too big for his neck, he's shiny. Yeah, yeah, 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:32.360 that's not the only thing that's wrong with him. So 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:36.800 this proposal would render migrants ineligible for US asylum if 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.680 they crossed a sudden border illegally after failing to ask 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.560 for humanitarian refuge in another country they traveled through, such 1:01:42.560 --> 1:01:46.480 as Mexico. Right, So unless you somehow come straight to 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:48.040 the US, which you can't do because you can't get 1:01:48.080 --> 1:01:52.600 on a flight to the US without the correct travel documents, 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:55.480 then you'd have to travel through another country. Right, And 1:01:55.520 --> 1:01:59.000 they're saying that you should apply for asylum there In practice, 1:01:59.040 --> 1:02:01.960 this would bar most Nonxican asylum seekers unless he took 1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:04.720 advantage to one of the programs that Biden has proposed 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:08.480 to allow people in Nicaragua, Cuba, Haiti, and Venezuela with 1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:11.960 a US sponsor under a humanitarian parole program where they 1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:14.600 apply from their home country and then get to credentials 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:19.360 to travel, so they'd stay in Cuba or whatever. This 1:02:19.560 --> 1:02:21.320 might not be safe for some people to do in 1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:26.600 those countries, but they have a means to get here 1:02:26.680 --> 1:02:28.959 and it's metered I think at thirty thousand a month. 1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:33.280 Those people from those same countries and during the same conditions, 1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:36.200 if they came here on their own and then applied 1:02:36.200 --> 1:02:38.560 to asylum as is, they're right under US law once 1:02:38.600 --> 1:02:41.160 they entered the country right. And it's worth noting that 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.920 like most people coming in that wanted to apply for asylum, 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:48.000 so they wanted to turn them That might have changed 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:49.920 it law with Title forty two, but previously people were 1:02:49.960 --> 1:02:52.280 seeking to turn themselves in right and say hey, I'm 1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:55.240 here to apply for asylum. They can now be expelled 1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:56.320 under this legislation. 1:02:56.560 --> 1:02:56.720 Right. 1:02:56.840 --> 1:02:58.520 So if they don't use this or they don't have 1:02:58.560 --> 1:03:01.760 a US sponsor, which kind of creates. You shouldn't have 1:03:01.800 --> 1:03:04.400 to know someone in America right to come here and 1:03:04.720 --> 1:03:07.000 avail yourself the basic human rights. 1:03:07.320 --> 1:03:10.720 Yeah, it's just it's it's purposely like getting people out 1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:12.720 of the group that can go in, you know what 1:03:12.760 --> 1:03:14.360 I mean, Like it's excluding people. 1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:19.280 But yeah, just like yeah, right, thousands of people. Yeah, 1:03:19.880 --> 1:03:23.200 and this legislation now allows them for them to be 1:03:23.480 --> 1:03:27.640 for explanited processing and expelsion. If people do want to 1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:29.800 apply for asylum at the Southern border, they need to 1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:32.040 use an app which is called CBP one. 1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:34.200 That's just the craziest thing I've heard in a while. 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:35.200 So yeah, it is. 1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:39.920 Like I'm on another planet, like what what I don't know. 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:44.919 It is incredibly powerful, like Libraine to be like, don't worry, 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:48.080 We've made the app. We've got you. Like it assumes 1:03:48.120 --> 1:03:50.600 that people have the app. It's not available in all 1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:53.360 the languages that people speaking, like of course, not like 1:03:53.600 --> 1:03:56.560 last time I was at the border, like I had 1:03:56.760 --> 1:04:00.400 I worked with a colleague who spoke a Romo. I 1:04:00.520 --> 1:04:07.280 speak French his Spocationian Creole, Spanish, Russian, Ukrainian, right, like, 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.280 like those are people I interviewed in in an afternoon, 1:04:11.240 --> 1:04:16.800 you know, there are dozens of languages, so the app 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:20.160 isn't available in those languages. The app is a giant cluster. Fuck, 1:04:20.200 --> 1:04:22.240 it doesn't work. It crashes all the time. Like you 1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:25.600 can find like little kids, little kids who come up 1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:27.800 from Tijuana to go to school, who like can tell 1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:30.120 you ten things that are wrong about this app. But 1:04:30.240 --> 1:04:32.160 you can also find people who make six figure salaries 1:04:32.200 --> 1:04:32.600 in Washington. 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:35.800 You think it's great, right, regardless, it's a fucking app 1:04:36.080 --> 1:04:39.520 on a fucking device that is like, like, I don't know, 1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:40.320 I think it's just so. 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:42.200 Lazy. 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:43.920 It's lazy and stupid. 1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:46.600 I don't like it. Yes, it is both of those things, 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:48.160 and assumes people have a cell phone, which is. 1:04:48.200 --> 1:04:50.240 Yes, very elitist, Yes exactly. 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:54.200 Yeah, like it maybe your phone could get stolen being 1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:56.400 fucking someone can book all these train games, like there's 1:04:56.400 --> 1:05:00.320 a million ways. It assumes you've got fucking broadband collector liberty, 1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:04.440 you know, Wi Fi, all these things. It's yeah, it's 1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:07.120 just insane, Like it's amazing how detached one can be 1:05:07.200 --> 1:05:10.480 from reality and still be the person in charge. Yeah, 1:05:11.440 --> 1:05:15.520 what if no people in charge? So migrants crossing the 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:18.760 border without documents can be subjected to explicited removal, as 1:05:18.760 --> 1:05:23.120 it said, the proposed regulations indicate the migrants from Cuba, Nicaraguo, 1:05:23.160 --> 1:05:27.280 and Venezuela, who generally cannot be deported due to strain 1:05:27.360 --> 1:05:31.080 relations with the governments there, would face deportation to Mexico instead, 1:05:31.840 --> 1:05:37.560 which fucking just again makes someone else's problem, right. A 1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:42.520 dozen Senate Democrats called the proposed asylum restrictions unlawful and counterproductive. 1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:46.760 They joined thousands of migrant advocates and organizations, including the 1:05:46.840 --> 1:05:51.080 United Nations Refugee Agency, in employing the administration to immediately 1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:54.640 withdraw the regulation. So there's a period of public comment, 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:57.840 which is what's happening at the moment. Right, So he's 1:05:57.880 --> 1:06:00.280 found a policy which no one likes, both from the 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:03.720 right end from the people are allowed to live with dignity. 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:05.800 So that's hard to do. 1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:06.560 That's hard to do. 1:06:06.800 --> 1:06:09.960 Well, you're never he's never gonna have fucking like, I 1:06:10.040 --> 1:06:12.440 don't know what they're like tramplicants want, but like it's 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:14.439 some version of machine guns on top of a wall 1:06:14.520 --> 1:06:19.120 killing little children. And you could just be a decent person, 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:24.160 or you could try and plicate fucking psychopathic Fox News people. 1:06:24.880 --> 1:06:27.560 So Mexico is already the third most popular destination for 1:06:27.560 --> 1:06:30.400 people seeking asylum in the world after United States in Germany. 1:06:31.560 --> 1:06:34.320 In Mexico, asylum seekers have to stay in the state 1:06:34.360 --> 1:06:37.560 where they apply, and that's resulted in large numbers people 1:06:37.560 --> 1:06:41.640 being concentrated in uh placed like Tapatula on the southern 1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:47.440 border with Guatemala, and that creates like an infrastructure issue there, right, 1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:51.040 which it's also worth I'm sure people are well aware that. 1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:54.360 I wonder why all these countries have been fucking destabilized, right, 1:06:54.400 --> 1:06:57.520 I wonder if there was a country which helped do 1:06:57.600 --> 1:07:00.360 that for deca their home, Like why can't they go 1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:00.880 back home? 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:01.040 Like? 1:07:01.240 --> 1:07:05.320 Yeah, what I mean there? Yeah, if only the clash 1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:09.000 had written a song about its understand better. So Mexico 1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:12.120 granted sixty one percent of asylum requests from January through 1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:14.720 November last year, compared to forty six percent in the 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:19.040 USA for fiscal year twenty twenty two. That is an 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:21.880 increase of a low of twenty seven percent under Trump, 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:25.560 but it's still suggested more than half the people get 1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:27.480 sent back right where the fact that they get sent 1:07:27.560 --> 1:07:29.680 back to if they can't reliably go back to their 1:07:29.720 --> 1:07:34.520 home country safely. Mexico abides by something called the Katahena Declaration, 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:38.000 which promises a safe haven twenty one's threatened by generalized violence, 1:07:38.160 --> 1:07:42.360 foreign aggression, internal conflicts, massive violation of human rights, or 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:46.280 other circumstances which have seriously disturbed public order. The US 1:07:47.520 --> 1:07:50.560 currently observes a narrow definition that requires a person to 1:07:50.640 --> 1:07:54.400 have been individually targeted. That's a distinct thing. Right for 1:07:54.480 --> 1:07:57.840 limited reasons are spelled out in the UN Refugee Convention. 1:07:59.000 --> 1:08:01.920 But it appears that the bad administration has plans to 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:05.160 retrain DHS agents, and they're currently telling them, or they 1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:07.320 seem to be proposing to tell them. I should say, 1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:11.360 to let migrants enter the US to pursue protection only 1:08:11.480 --> 1:08:15.439 if they qualify under the International Convention against Torture, which 1:08:16.520 --> 1:08:17.760 is an absurdly. 1:08:17.360 --> 1:08:23.040 High yeah, like against torture. Wow, yeah, I thought you 1:08:23.080 --> 1:08:26.439 were going to say after all that. Yeah, it's it's 1:08:26.439 --> 1:08:29.840 a ridiculously high bar. Like there are very real things 1:08:29.880 --> 1:08:31.840 you could be afraid of. Like I've spoken to people 1:08:31.920 --> 1:08:36.040 who've have escaped like forced sex work, right, who've had 1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:38.400 members of their family killed, threats made to their own lives. 1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:40.759 None of those. Maybe the forced sex work is torture 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:44.320 but maybe some of those things wouldn't meet that bar. 1:08:44.479 --> 1:08:46.880 But I think any reasonable human being, right, if you 1:08:47.040 --> 1:08:50.960 met someone in the street and they said, hey, you know, 1:08:51.040 --> 1:08:53.320 someone so killed my daughter and my father and my uncle, 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:54.800 and they said they're going to kill me, you'd say, like, 1:08:54.920 --> 1:08:56.680 come into my house, I'll look after you. But there's 1:08:56.720 --> 1:08:58.519 a country we're saying, fuck you, You're on your own, 1:08:58.800 --> 1:09:01.960 And yeah, that's that's not how you be a good neighbor. 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:06.360 It's also on the inside of the administration. Recently has 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:09.719 reported that the Biden administration is considering reviving the practice 1:09:09.760 --> 1:09:13.360 of detaining migrant families caught crossing the US Mexico border illegally. 1:09:14.280 --> 1:09:18.120 So this is this is the thing that that all 1:09:18.160 --> 1:09:20.880 the people were very upset about. It the normal kids 1:09:20.960 --> 1:09:23.600 in cages thing, mm hmm. But we fucking do that 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:27.600 again as well. I guess they likely won't do like 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:30.880 separation of minders, which which is what they did before, right, 1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:33.639 they took the kids away from their parents entertained them separately, 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:39.800 which is just fucking like I cannot imagine. It's still just. 1:09:40.360 --> 1:09:44.519 Yeah, it's just unspeakable trauma and like just like for 1:09:44.640 --> 1:09:48.960 both for everybody involved. Uh, I mean like same with 1:09:49.080 --> 1:09:51.680 the wall though, like it's just the same thing. The 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:54.080 same thing is happening. It's just like marketed differently. It's 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:56.360 just like packaged in a different way, and it's still 1:09:56.479 --> 1:09:57.320 fucking terrible. 1:09:58.040 --> 1:10:02.040 Yeah, Like, I just I don't know what you expect 1:10:02.240 --> 1:10:04.000 these fucking people to do, Like, and I don't know 1:10:04.080 --> 1:10:07.599 how you how you expect someone like even if you're 1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:10.160 purely self interested and you're just concerned about like US 1:10:10.200 --> 1:10:13.719 security and like you know, making America great again or whatever, 1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:18.840 Like if you lock little children up, like they're going 1:10:18.920 --> 1:10:21.240 to fucking hate you and you can't blame them, like, 1:10:21.600 --> 1:10:25.559 it's it's it's inhumane, it's it's what dictators do. It's 1:10:26.479 --> 1:10:28.080 it's fucking unfathomable. 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:32.400 But it also like drives me, like it's just insane 1:10:32.600 --> 1:10:35.280 to think about people that are actually there in the 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:38.759 flesh like that that see people like the children crying 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:41.920 or something, and like just there's so much terrible things 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.560 going on and no one does there's not enough. I 1:10:45.600 --> 1:10:48.160 don't know. I just I can't imagine doing that. It'll 1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:50.360 just be like, Okay, my job is this and I'm 1:10:50.400 --> 1:10:51.360 gonna continue. 1:10:51.439 --> 1:10:51.760 I don't know. 1:10:51.880 --> 1:10:52.439 I don't like it. 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:54.639 I don't like it. No, I don't like it. Idea 1:10:54.760 --> 1:10:56.840 like this, Of all the things I've reported on, and 1:10:56.920 --> 1:11:00.639 like I've reported on some dark shit and like being 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:05.200 to some dangerous places, et cetera, nothing has been harder 1:11:05.240 --> 1:11:09.280 for me to get over than little kids at the border. Like, 1:11:09.600 --> 1:11:11.400 I have hundreds of stories about it, but I can 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:15.559 remember one little girl. This shit makes me want to cry. 1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:19.240 I rememb there's one little girl who she had left 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:22.280 her teddy bear behind. She wanted a teddy bear, And 1:11:22.840 --> 1:11:25.280 like this, little girls are cleaving in a fucking tent. 1:11:25.400 --> 1:11:25.479 Right. 1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:29.400 This is in twenty eighteen, when when like the mid 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:31.160 terms were happening. So they were holding a large group 1:11:31.160 --> 1:11:32.559 of people right next to the border, right they were 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:35.320 staying in a baseball stadium, and myself and some friends 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:38.160 had gone to help. And this little girl was just 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:41.040 like the sweetest little kid that she came up. She 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:44.000 was holding my hand and then I asked if she 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:45.400 wanted to go on my shoulders. She wanted to go 1:11:45.479 --> 1:11:47.720 on my shoulders, you know. And at this point, the 1:11:47.840 --> 1:11:49.840 way that they were getting people to leave that area 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:51.519 and go to another area was by cutting off their 1:11:51.560 --> 1:11:55.040 access to water. Oh my god, so like we were 1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:56.680 able to get some water, and we were able to 1:11:56.760 --> 1:12:00.599 give them like as much water as we coabin credit cards. 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:03.360 And I asked her like what she wanted. She said 1:12:03.360 --> 1:12:05.600 she had to leave her teddy bear behind. It just 1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:11.400 fucking broke my heart, like without like you know, going 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:13.559 into too much personal trauma. Details like that shit kept 1:12:13.600 --> 1:12:17.400 me from sleeping for weeks. Uh, and I found it 1:12:17.560 --> 1:12:19.840 so hard to come back. It was like twenty eighteen, 1:12:20.120 --> 1:12:22.560 around November, I guess, and like go to like a 1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:27.080 I remember someone's having some Thanksgiving thing and just I 1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:28.920 just wanted to fucking shout at everyone and be like 1:12:28.960 --> 1:12:31.200 what the fuck is wrong with you? Anyway? So when 1:12:31.280 --> 1:12:31.639 bought her. 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:36.600 Devastating especially from a from a child, you know, like 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.800 their their experience and their perspective is just like just 1:12:40.040 --> 1:12:42.479 I don't know, you see how rad is? 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:46.760 Yeah, Like I know, no, children shouldn't be treated about 1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:49.840 that full stop, Like we shouldn't be standing in the 1:12:49.880 --> 1:12:52.400 parking lot of a fucking Tommy Hill Figure discount store 1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:56.560 in San Diego launching tear gas a little children in 1:12:56.720 --> 1:13:00.880 Mexico is one of the like the image wh of 1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:03.560 like what America does to people that will stick with 1:13:03.640 --> 1:13:07.719 me forever. It's yeah, it's. 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:10.479 I'm glad you were down there helping, though, like, especially 1:13:11.680 --> 1:13:13.720 according their access off to water is like the most 1:13:13.760 --> 1:13:16.160 like one of the most inhumane things, but then against 1:13:16.200 --> 1:13:17.440 sold very inhumane. 1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:22.479 Yeah, and that time was difficult for everyone involved. That 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:26.240 was also one of the most impressive. This is one 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:29.240 of the times when large NGOs weren't allowed to operate 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:34.600 because of various concerns and legal things. So the entirety 1:13:35.000 --> 1:13:37.920 of the aid effort for those people was done through 1:13:38.080 --> 1:13:41.760 mutual aid, right through completely ad hoc mechanisms. There were 1:13:41.840 --> 1:13:47.639 church people, people from various migrant advocacy groups in San Diego, 1:13:47.680 --> 1:13:50.200 people from Altolado who we've spoken to on the podcast. 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:52.400 That's how I met them for the first time. Number 1:13:52.400 --> 1:13:55.639 of those people actually were surveilled by border patrol, as 1:13:55.680 --> 1:14:00.559 we found out two years later, and had warrant on them, etc. 1:14:00.880 --> 1:14:03.720 But everyone who came came like not because it was 1:14:03.760 --> 1:14:05.120 their job, because it was the right thing to do, 1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:08.680 and like, there wasn't a day I was down there 1:14:08.720 --> 1:14:11.599 that there weren't people turning up with trucks full of stuff. 1:14:12.680 --> 1:14:16.680 This is my friend and I. Someone managed to get 1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:19.040 us a projector from their workplace and how they got 1:14:19.080 --> 1:14:21.439 a projector from their workplace, I didn't care, and a 1:14:21.479 --> 1:14:23.960 bunch of DVDs. My friend used to be an electrician. 1:14:24.680 --> 1:14:27.200 And they moved everyone to a nightclub. It was a 1:14:27.320 --> 1:14:30.639 nightclub and another part of Tijuana at our old nightclub, 1:14:30.720 --> 1:14:33.080 the old and massive thousands of people were in this 1:14:33.200 --> 1:14:35.839 big kind of opening nightclub situation. It was very strange. 1:14:35.920 --> 1:14:38.400 They had the women and the young children in one 1:14:38.439 --> 1:14:41.080 area that like very clearly had been a pole dance room, 1:14:42.520 --> 1:14:45.960 so like anyway, and they had like these bars ort 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:47.960 of like you know, like a balcony area. So we 1:14:48.040 --> 1:14:49.479 went up to the balcony area, and then me and 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:52.719 a couple of these older kids who with the migrant 1:14:52.720 --> 1:14:54.680 group were able to get like climb across the room, 1:14:54.760 --> 1:15:00.120 find some wires connected projector and do a little make 1:15:00.120 --> 1:15:02.880 a little movie theater for the children. And they remember 1:15:02.880 --> 1:15:06.760 they were watching like Beverly Hills, Chihuahua when I left, 1:15:06.840 --> 1:15:08.439 and yeah, they were having like just. 1:15:08.479 --> 1:15:11.040 A little gestures are so important though. 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:14.680 Like yeah, I mean, it doesn't fucking fax anything, but 1:15:14.880 --> 1:15:16.960 if they can have two hours of watching a film 1:15:16.960 --> 1:15:22.320 about a dog or whatever like not that, yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, 1:15:22.360 --> 1:15:25.560 they deserve that. They deserve a lot more than that. 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:28.519 But yeah, it was those little nice things that made 1:15:28.560 --> 1:15:32.439 it bearable. I guess yeah, there was. I still have 1:15:32.680 --> 1:15:36.560 like fairly disturbing recollections of lots of things asking on 1:15:36.600 --> 1:15:40.880 the border. So let's just do a quote from Joe Biden, 1:15:42.200 --> 1:15:44.639 because we do do love a bit of Joe Biden. 1:15:45.520 --> 1:15:47.840 My message is this, if you're trying to leave Coolba, 1:15:47.920 --> 1:15:51.320 Nicaragua or Haiti have agreed to begin a journey to America, 1:15:51.760 --> 1:15:54.040 do not do not Just shut up at the border, 1:15:55.040 --> 1:15:58.160 stay where you are and apply legally starting today. If 1:15:58.160 --> 1:16:00.760 you don't apply through the legal process, you will not 1:16:00.840 --> 1:16:05.880 be eligible for this new parole program. Anyway, Joe Biden 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:12.800 can go fuck himself. But I think that I hope 1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:15.200 that obviously lots of little anecdotes have helped. But we 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:17.680 shouldn't see these people as statistics or numbers, and we 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:20.559 should see them as people. So I've got a couple 1:16:20.560 --> 1:16:22.560 of interviews I've done, and to just one as I 1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:24.160 went back to some notes and found so I was 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:26.479 just going to read them out, so I won't give 1:16:26.520 --> 1:16:32.320 their names just for their own security. But sometimes I've 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:35.120 used pseudonyms on the publicies. Sometimes I have used the 1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:37.200 names when they're willing to use their names, like it's 1:16:37.680 --> 1:16:40.120 their choice, right, but it should always be their choice. 1:16:40.280 --> 1:16:43.519 If you're a fucking reporter and you're filming children without 1:16:43.680 --> 1:16:45.439 their consent or their parents consent. 1:16:45.280 --> 1:16:47.560 And the rest camp they're not just a spectacle for 1:16:47.640 --> 1:16:48.479 your story. 1:16:48.760 --> 1:16:51.000 Yeah, exactly. You can jog on and I hope someone 1:16:51.040 --> 1:16:55.600 throws your camera in a river. So here's one. I 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:58.759 have three daughters, aged thirteen, ten and six. I've always 1:16:58.760 --> 1:17:01.000 had my own business selling food, and I paid what 1:17:01.080 --> 1:17:04.160 we would call extortion money, but with the pandemic, I 1:17:04.160 --> 1:17:05.920 couldn't pay well. I go over three or four months. 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:08.519 They said that I didn't pay, they were burned down 1:17:08.560 --> 1:17:10.559 my shop and me and my daughters would be raped 1:17:10.560 --> 1:17:13.599 and killed. With what little I had left, I left 1:17:13.640 --> 1:17:17.160 with my daughters. It's hard to get work here. That's 1:17:17.160 --> 1:17:19.360 an immigrant. There are some jobs, but not the sort 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:21.200 that are for me. I have to try and be 1:17:21.240 --> 1:17:24.000 an example to my kids. One day I was juggling 1:17:24.080 --> 1:17:25.720 by the traffic lights and some guys tried to pick 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:28.000 me up. They said they knew where I lived and 1:17:28.040 --> 1:17:29.639 they would hurt me and my daughters, who I didn't 1:17:29.640 --> 1:17:32.040 work for them. They made me work in a bar. 1:17:33.040 --> 1:17:36.240 I escaped, but that's how I broke my hand. I 1:17:36.320 --> 1:17:38.040 didn't want to go to the US, but I need 1:17:38.120 --> 1:17:39.600 to leave this country now for the same reason I 1:17:39.680 --> 1:17:45.760 left my own. Well, then I'll read one more. We 1:17:45.840 --> 1:17:48.360 came from one daughters to flee the violence. We have 1:17:48.479 --> 1:17:50.280 come to this camp in the last few days, but 1:17:50.320 --> 1:17:53.000 it's scary here. We don't feel safe. There are people 1:17:53.080 --> 1:17:55.080 coming or taking photos of the children of the women. 1:17:55.680 --> 1:17:57.519 Men of for the women here money to go with them. 1:17:57.920 --> 1:18:00.120 They tried to get them to sleep with them. It's 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:02.320 a woman here filming us as well. We found out 1:18:02.360 --> 1:18:03.960 she's a big activist for Donald Trump. This was in 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:08.400 twenty twenty one. Some people came to snatch a child here. 1:18:08.640 --> 1:18:10.960 Between the group, we're working to make a security committee 1:18:11.000 --> 1:18:13.360 to protect the children because there are people who would 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:16.640 take the children here. We aren't a caravan. We're just 1:18:16.720 --> 1:18:18.360 people from all over the world who have come here 1:18:18.400 --> 1:18:21.200 for a better future. We're asking Biden. We know it's 1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:23.280 complicated and he has a lot to sort out, and 1:18:23.400 --> 1:18:26.120 we have patients. We know he has to make compromises, 1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:29.120 but please think of us here. We're in danger. Please 1:18:29.160 --> 1:18:29.880 give us a solution. 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:32.560 It fucking heartbreaking. 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:35.600 Yeah, it is heartbreaking. Shit. I wish there was like 1:18:35.720 --> 1:18:39.400 some kind of happy ending I can put on this, 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:42.120 or like, I don't know. There are great things you 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.479 can do with mutual a groups. There's a group that 1:18:45.520 --> 1:18:47.880 I'm hoping to interview next week called Bordlands Relief Collective 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:50.760 in San Diego who do kind of a lot to 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:55.480 help people crossing the border. There are groups like Altolalo 1:18:55.720 --> 1:18:59.639 you can donate to the public. Comment is still available 1:18:59.800 --> 1:19:03.439 for the Biden to propose new restrictions, so I guess 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:05.280 you can come out of that if you think that 1:19:05.439 --> 1:19:08.960 will help. I guess this is an area sometimes where 1:19:09.240 --> 1:19:12.840 talking to politicians might help, because they make the laws 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:17.400 that affects people's right to kind of live with basic dignity. 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:22.920 But yeah, I don't have a great solution to this, 1:19:23.320 --> 1:19:25.040 especially like if people aren't in a place where they 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:27.320 know people here are struggling to get by. I understand 1:19:27.320 --> 1:19:30.000 that not everyone can afford to donate, of course. Yeah, 1:19:30.720 --> 1:19:33.800 but yeah, this is pretty bleak. And just because it's 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:36.519 not like being beamed into your living rooms anymore, because 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:41.160 orange Man bad doesn't mean that lick it's still not 1:19:41.240 --> 1:19:42.080 impossibly cruel. 1:19:42.800 --> 1:19:46.760 Yeah, it's I mean, just because another old guy took 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:50.479 over doesn't mean like the same things are already there. 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:52.600 It's not like they just poofed into thin air like 1:19:52.640 --> 1:19:55.080 all the terrible things that are already happening. That's what 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:58.599 I don't understand, is like people just assume. I don't 1:19:58.600 --> 1:20:00.400 know what they assume. I'm not going to amble on 1:20:00.640 --> 1:20:03.599 like that. But it's heartbreaking, and you should donate if 1:20:03.600 --> 1:20:03.880 you can. 1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:09.400 Uh, yeah, donate, do you stuff, shout at people, do 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:13.000 whatever you think. We'll make a difference, because it's pretty bad. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.040 Welcome to it could happen here a podcast coming live, 1:20:32.280 --> 1:20:34.400 not live, really not. I need to come up with 1:20:34.439 --> 1:20:36.599 a better bit than coming to you live, but coming 1:20:36.680 --> 1:20:39.880 coming to you from from from now Fallen apparently on 1:20:40.160 --> 1:20:46.120 fire destroyed Chicago, so so so say the media, oracles, 1:20:46.200 --> 1:20:49.080 soothsayers and cops who live in the city who are 1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:52.120 now absolutely convinced that the city is going to descend 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:53.920 into crime and chaos, etcetera, et cetera. 1:20:54.040 --> 1:20:56.240 After the cop candidate got absolutely blown the. 1:20:56.240 --> 1:20:59.200 Fuck out in the last elections, and yeah, with me 1:20:59.240 --> 1:21:01.800 to talk about this election and a couple of other 1:21:01.880 --> 1:21:05.720 elections that happened on the same day that were very 1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:08.519 funny and where the worst people in the world got 1:21:08.560 --> 1:21:11.639 absolutely destroyed. Is Ali, who is one of my friends 1:21:11.760 --> 1:21:15.720 and is an election analyst. Yeah, welcome to the show. 1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:18.080 How are you doing. I'm doing well. Thank you for 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:21.120 having Mima. Nice to be nice to be here. Yeah, 1:21:21.439 --> 1:21:24.679 I'm very excited. Yeah, because this is just very funny. 1:21:25.080 --> 1:21:30.400 It's extremely funny. I personally was really enjoying getting to 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:33.360 read the Twitter tea leaves. You could tell kind of 1:21:33.439 --> 1:21:36.320 which aldermen were having meltdowns on election night. 1:21:37.840 --> 1:21:39.400 Yeah, So I guess I guess we could start with 1:21:40.040 --> 1:21:42.599 the stuff that happened in Chicago, which is that Paul Vallas, 1:21:43.000 --> 1:21:50.519 the butcher of the public education system, running dog of 1:21:50.600 --> 1:21:56.160 a cops, the hero of J six people. I was 1:21:56.640 --> 1:22:00.320 just kind of slacked in an election by Brandon Johnson, 1:22:00.479 --> 1:22:02.519 the sort of progressive candidate who I'm very excited I 1:22:02.640 --> 1:22:04.800 no longer have to pretend that I like particularly much. 1:22:08.560 --> 1:22:13.519 Yes, now, as as Mia, says Paul Vallas. Resident Dino 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:17.480 from Palos Heights, a southwest suburb of Chicago, who conveniently 1:22:17.600 --> 1:22:22.519 bought an apartment in Chicago exactly a year before the election, 1:22:22.680 --> 1:22:24.639 which is how long you have to live in Chicago 1:22:24.760 --> 1:22:29.799 to be the mayor. Lost the runoff to Brandon Johnson, 1:22:29.880 --> 1:22:33.280 a black progressive who was on the Cook County board. 1:22:34.840 --> 1:22:37.360 About when all the results are done coming in in 1:22:37.400 --> 1:22:39.759 a couple of weeks, it'll be about fifty two percent 1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:43.320 for Johnson and forty eight percent for Vallus. As Mia says, 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:45.200 this lets to a lot of people on the left 1:22:45.640 --> 1:22:49.280 no longer have to keep up the charade of, oh, 1:22:49.400 --> 1:22:51.200 Johnson's the best thing that has happened to us in 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:57.280 slice bread. For if you are like more of a 1:22:59.520 --> 1:23:03.320 like Democratic Party loyal progressive voter, this is a very 1:23:03.479 --> 1:23:04.559 very good thing in your eyes. 1:23:06.840 --> 1:23:09.920 Yeah, And I think, you know, I think it's something 1:23:10.080 --> 1:23:14.200 very interesting and kind of fitting about this, which is that, Yeah, 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:16.840 one of the you've talked about is that, yeah, like 1:23:16.880 --> 1:23:19.880 Brendon Johnson is the first like progressive TM mayor Travers 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:24.479 had since like I mean literally since Harold Washington, who 1:23:24.560 --> 1:23:27.080 was the first black mayor in the eighties. And it's 1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:30.400 very interesting also because a bunch of the reforms that 1:23:30.479 --> 1:23:35.519 Harold Washington did were specifically overturned by Paul Vallis. Yeah, 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:38.439 like he's the guy you did a bunch of educational 1:23:38.520 --> 1:23:42.719 reforms that fucking sucked, that destroyed Washington stuff. 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:50.200 It's no, it's it's really wild. How like Chicago politics 1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:54.519 is analogous to go really out there for a second. 1:23:54.840 --> 1:23:57.080 Is analogous to the state of Hawaii in the sense 1:23:57.160 --> 1:24:00.439 that people never die. Have the same people are going 1:24:00.479 --> 1:24:02.880 to be on your ballot for fifty years and you 1:24:03.080 --> 1:24:04.599 just kind of have to suck it up and deal 1:24:04.680 --> 1:24:08.360 with it. But every so often someone good comes along, 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:11.240 or at least someone better, And if you get them 1:24:11.280 --> 1:24:13.400 into office the first time, and if you get them 1:24:13.439 --> 1:24:16.320 to survive their first reelection campaign, then they get to 1:24:16.400 --> 1:24:18.439 be one of the people who's on the ballot forever 1:24:18.520 --> 1:24:21.920 and who never dies. And slowly but surely you can 1:24:22.000 --> 1:24:26.960 make Chicago politics less shitty. But yeah, as Mia said, 1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:29.519 this is going to be the first progressive Chicago mayoral 1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:36.200 administration since Harold Washington. And Johnson won the same way 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:42.200 as Harold Washington did. On Yeah, the backbone of Johnson's coalition, 1:24:42.520 --> 1:24:45.800 just as with Harold Washington's, was black voters. Johnson got 1:24:46.040 --> 1:24:49.679 about eighty percent of the black vote. Because in Chicago 1:24:49.800 --> 1:24:55.880 elections are usually more about race than anything else. But 1:24:56.040 --> 1:25:00.840 in addition to the black vote, Johnson won with progressives 1:25:01.120 --> 1:25:05.719 in white and non black communities of color, as well 1:25:05.920 --> 1:25:11.880 as LGBTQ voters, and finally fulfilling the dreams of the 1:25:12.400 --> 1:25:15.360 Here's how Bernie can still win people from twenty fifteen. 1:25:16.560 --> 1:25:22.080 A actual turnout surge of millennial and Gen Z voters 1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:27.240 the Chicago Board of Elections is. I don't think that 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:31.519 anyone would call them great, but they do produce some 1:25:31.960 --> 1:25:37.519 nice live statistics on election day as the votes are tallied, 1:25:38.040 --> 1:25:44.920 and voters under forty five had a turnout surge of 1:25:45.120 --> 1:25:48.719 I think it was about twenty percent, whereas voters older 1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:52.599 than sixty, the raw number of their votes actually went down. 1:25:53.760 --> 1:25:57.519 And this likely does almost entirely account for Johnson's margin 1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:00.320 of victory, that he was able to turn out young 1:26:00.439 --> 1:26:03.040 voters and that old people just like stayed home. 1:26:04.200 --> 1:26:06.200 Yeah, I think it's also you know, we talked about 1:26:06.240 --> 1:26:09.439 this in the episode we did about Paul Vallis, But 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:11.400 one of the things about the initial election was that 1:26:11.560 --> 1:26:13.160 like the fact that Johnson made it out of the 1:26:13.200 --> 1:26:19.680 primaries at all with a genuinely nightmarorish like age like 1:26:19.920 --> 1:26:22.479 bracket of turnout in the first round is sort of 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:26.719 a miracle, but you know, it got a lot better 1:26:26.880 --> 1:26:30.800 for him in this one, and that genuinely seems to 1:26:30.880 --> 1:26:33.960 have like I don't know, like I know a lot 1:26:34.040 --> 1:26:38.200 of people who spent a lot of time like canvassing 1:26:38.240 --> 1:26:40.599 their assets off and it actually seems to have worked. 1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:43.160 And I don't know, I mean, you know, it has 1:26:43.200 --> 1:26:45.320 to be seen the extent to which this was about, 1:26:46.080 --> 1:26:50.960 like the fact that Vallas is like probably would have 1:26:51.080 --> 1:26:53.439 been the worst mayor of Chicago in like. 1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:57.640 We don't have to go we don't have to go 1:26:57.760 --> 1:27:00.719 back that far. Daily was mayor of Chicago as recently 1:27:00.760 --> 1:27:06.559 as twenty eleven. That's true, but I I don't know Daily. 1:27:06.800 --> 1:27:08.960 Yeah, I mean it's not like Chago has good mayors, 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:12.000 but I think he would have been Okay, here's I 1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:14.160 think he would have been the most politically far right 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:16.519 mayor Chicago has had in a long time. Oh yeah, 1:27:16.960 --> 1:27:20.599 Like he's just a Republican, like like a pretty like yeah, 1:27:21.200 --> 1:27:26.320 and you know that fucking sucks, but he got Clawbard. 1:27:26.439 --> 1:27:28.479 There's also there's a really funny result I want to 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:29.320 talk about, which. 1:27:29.160 --> 1:27:30.360 Is that Okay, so. 1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:36.840 The part of Chicago, the neighborhood of in Chicago where 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:40.800 the Cubs Stadium is is right next to Boystown, which 1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:43.640 is the fucking gay district. And if you if you 1:27:43.760 --> 1:27:46.160 go in and look at like, well I say, I say, 1:27:46.160 --> 1:27:49.040 it's the gay district, like a lot a lot of it's. 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:52.000 It's it's it's now the rich gay part of Chicago 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:53.639 because I think it's got priced out. 1:27:54.000 --> 1:27:56.280 Well it kind of is. It's not Market Park is 1:27:56.320 --> 1:27:57.719 the rich gay part of Chicago. 1:27:58.280 --> 1:27:58.800 That's true. 1:27:59.439 --> 1:28:00.640 Okay, it's more of. 1:28:00.640 --> 1:28:02.800 A rich kay part Chicago than it was like forty 1:28:02.880 --> 1:28:07.320 years ago, fety years ago. Yeah, but like like literally 1:28:07.520 --> 1:28:09.640 exactly split. You can like you can like see in 1:28:09.680 --> 1:28:12.000 the data exactly split down line, the gays voted for 1:28:12.080 --> 1:28:14.360 Brandon Johnson and all the people and all the Cubs 1:28:14.400 --> 1:28:16.000 fans voted for Vallas. 1:28:16.080 --> 1:28:19.800 It's so funny, it is. It is extremely funny. And 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:22.880 I will give a quick shout out here to the 1:28:23.600 --> 1:28:28.920 Chicago Urbanist Twitter account who made what I personally think 1:28:29.040 --> 1:28:31.679 is the funniest meme to have come out of the election, 1:28:33.040 --> 1:28:38.640 which is a bunch of like stick figures and just 1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:42.840 like black and white labeled Vallas voters running from a 1:28:43.240 --> 1:28:48.599 like steamroller, a pink steamroller with a rainbow like wheel 1:28:49.360 --> 1:28:52.519 being driven by a bunch of gay people, and the 1:28:52.640 --> 1:28:54.240 steamroller is labeled boys Down. 1:28:56.280 --> 1:29:01.080 It's really good, like they I don't know, like there 1:29:01.200 --> 1:29:05.600 is this sort of like this is sort of like 1:29:06.400 --> 1:29:09.160 this is the coalition that well, I mean again, we 1:29:09.200 --> 1:29:11.160 talked about it like this, this is the hair washing coalition, Like, 1:29:11.280 --> 1:29:14.760 this is the coalition that if you're an elect electoral list, 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:17.360 like you need to produce something that looks like this 1:29:17.560 --> 1:29:19.280 if you want to have any serious chance of winning. 1:29:20.640 --> 1:29:23.679 And yes, yeah, and the fact that it actually worked 1:29:23.840 --> 1:29:28.880 is sort of Oh, it's a goddamn miracle. Yeah, this 1:29:28.960 --> 1:29:30.960 shit never works. People have been trying to do this 1:29:31.040 --> 1:29:34.280 for like forty fucking years and it never works. I mean, 1:29:34.280 --> 1:29:37.160 you've been trying to do this for forty plus years. 1:29:37.200 --> 1:29:40.360 But it's also like this is really the first election 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:47.360 that I can think of anywhere since Barack Obama's reelection 1:29:47.439 --> 1:29:50.080 in twenty twelve, where like, this is the coalition that 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:52.920 actually puts someone in like an office that got a 1:29:53.000 --> 1:29:55.920 lot of national attention and that mattered. That's not to 1:29:55.960 --> 1:29:58.320 say that it like literally hasn't happened anywhere else. I'm 1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:00.519 just saying I can't think of any off the top 1:30:00.560 --> 1:30:05.080 of my head. But like, in twenty twelve, Barack Obama 1:30:05.160 --> 1:30:08.479 became the first person to be elected president of the 1:30:08.600 --> 1:30:13.479 United States with less than forty percent of the white vote, 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:18.760 a feat that has never since been repeated. Clinton got 1:30:19.000 --> 1:30:21.839 less than that and lost. Trump obviously won, and Biden 1:30:22.000 --> 1:30:26.280 won because white voters swung left in twenty twenty. So like, 1:30:27.000 --> 1:30:32.200 this is a turnout and coalitional puzzle that most people 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:37.360 fail to put together and that Brandon Johnson miraculously pulled off. Yeah, 1:30:37.439 --> 1:30:39.400 And I think, on the. 1:30:39.439 --> 1:30:42.680 One hand, okay, this is legitimately kind of because the 1:30:42.840 --> 1:30:46.000 result is not the thing that normally happens. It is 1:30:46.160 --> 1:30:49.320 legitimately an interesting question as to why this happened, and 1:30:49.400 --> 1:30:52.120 like a sort of like legitimately kind of difficult like 1:30:53.720 --> 1:30:56.400 political science question. On the other hand, most of the 1:30:56.400 --> 1:31:00.519 people attempting to answer it have just all my fuck God, 1:31:01.040 --> 1:31:02.840 Like if I if I have to read another New 1:31:02.920 --> 1:31:05.760 York Times article writing about this that's like like just 1:31:05.880 --> 1:31:09.519 clearly cobbled together from three Wikipedia articles, Like I'm gonna 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:10.639 literally go insane. 1:31:11.600 --> 1:31:15.200 I think you, me and every other person in Chicago, 1:31:16.760 --> 1:31:18.679 you know, no matter if you were a Johnson voter 1:31:18.800 --> 1:31:21.320 or a value voter, or someone who stayed home. We 1:31:21.479 --> 1:31:24.080 can all come together in our hatred of that five 1:31:24.240 --> 1:31:26.479 thirty eight piece that was strong on the morning of 1:31:26.560 --> 1:31:29.920 election day. If you don't know what I'm talking about, 1:31:30.920 --> 1:31:32.880 you're lucky, and I'm not going to tell you. 1:31:33.760 --> 1:31:36.000 If you really want to, I'll give you a very 1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:37.679 brief summary of it, which is that five. 1:31:38.040 --> 1:31:40.360 No, no, we don't know. They did. They did. They 1:31:40.439 --> 1:31:41.120 did a racism. 1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:41.680 They did. 1:31:42.600 --> 1:31:44.920 That's what I'll leave it at. They did a racism 1:31:45.000 --> 1:31:50.639 and they were very wrong. They basically did the four races, white, Black, Latino, 1:31:50.760 --> 1:31:58.080 and leftist. Yeah, which is very funny. But hopefully, I 1:31:58.320 --> 1:32:01.040 hopeful I'll take a stab at explaining what happened, and 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:05.000 hopefully it's better than most people's explanation. But I think 1:32:05.040 --> 1:32:08.960 part of it is that, as I mentioned earlier, historically 1:32:09.000 --> 1:32:11.200 Chicago elections have been about race, and like this was 1:32:11.280 --> 1:32:17.320 no exception. This was much more of an ideological break. 1:32:17.520 --> 1:32:20.640 Like the ideological lines were a lot clearer in this 1:32:20.800 --> 1:32:26.439 election than previous mayoral races. But the foundation of Brandon 1:32:26.520 --> 1:32:30.000 Johnson's electoral victory was the eighty percent of the vote 1:32:30.040 --> 1:32:34.840 that he got in black majority neighborhoods. Black voters in 1:32:34.960 --> 1:32:37.680 Chicago selected the black candidate because they looked at the 1:32:37.720 --> 1:32:39.439 white guy and said, oh, we think you're going to 1:32:39.520 --> 1:32:46.160 be a massive dipshit. And beyond that, you have a 1:32:46.240 --> 1:32:50.160 couple of other things working in Johnson's favor, So like one, 1:32:51.360 --> 1:32:53.840 when it comes to the youth vote, I cannot really 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:57.880 believe I'm saying this because I when this was announced. 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:01.760 It's not that I thought it wouldn't help. It's just 1:33:01.840 --> 1:33:04.960 that I wasn't sure that it would help enough. But 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:09.920 Johnson got a lot of national progressive figures to endorse him, 1:33:10.040 --> 1:33:14.600 including Bernie Sanders, and his campaign literally flew Bernie in 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:18.759 for a rally on a college campus here in Chicago. 1:33:19.240 --> 1:33:21.640 And I think that genuinely did actually get a lot 1:33:21.680 --> 1:33:23.479 of young people to realize that there was an election 1:33:23.600 --> 1:33:26.280 that they should pay attention to, which is well because like. 1:33:26.320 --> 1:33:28.400 Like like this happened, Like people fly in Bernie a 1:33:28.479 --> 1:33:31.320 lot and it never matters, but it like it mattered here, 1:33:31.840 --> 1:33:36.479 which is sort of amazing. Absolutely, like just a lot 1:33:36.560 --> 1:33:39.040 of this election was wild. I think the other thing 1:33:39.240 --> 1:33:43.200 that really helped Johnson was that a like Chicago is 1:33:43.240 --> 1:33:45.920 a lot less white than it used to be, which 1:33:46.040 --> 1:33:48.120 is not something that usually gets said in this day 1:33:48.160 --> 1:33:52.280 and age, because Chicago is becoming white than it was 1:33:52.479 --> 1:33:55.599 like ten fifteen years ago. But Chicago was a lot 1:33:55.720 --> 1:33:56.520 less white. 1:33:56.280 --> 1:33:59.120 Than it was in the eighties when Harold Washington was elected, 1:33:59.200 --> 1:34:02.160 and so like there was more of a ceiling on 1:34:02.400 --> 1:34:09.439 Paul Vallas's vote than Harold Washington's opponents had, which meant 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:13.160 that Vallas had to be able to appeal to not 1:34:13.520 --> 1:34:17.880 just white voters who reflexively were against any black candidate, 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:20.439 but he also had to make inroads in Hispanic Asian 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:22.840 as well as Black communities and trying to get the 1:34:22.920 --> 1:34:28.479 black conservative vote, and he didn't. Vallas didn't do a 1:34:28.640 --> 1:34:32.120 terrible job here, but he just didn't do a job 1:34:32.160 --> 1:34:35.960 that was good enough. He actually probably won the Latino vote, 1:34:37.160 --> 1:34:39.000 it would. It wasn't like a huge win, but it 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:42.920 was a win. But the problem is that turnout in 1:34:43.320 --> 1:34:45.920 on the Southwest side of Chicago, which is where the 1:34:46.000 --> 1:34:51.240 majority of Chicago's Mexican American residents live, was just super low, 1:34:52.400 --> 1:34:58.040 just like really really atrociously in the tank, like to 1:34:58.160 --> 1:34:59.760 the extent like this is the kind of turnout that 1:35:00.080 --> 1:35:03.599 fires the online jokes about how no one ever bothers 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:09.880 to vote level bad turnout on the Southwest Side, So 1:35:10.240 --> 1:35:14.680 if Hispanic turnout had been on the same level as 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:17.280 white and black turnout, the race probably would have been 1:35:17.280 --> 1:35:22.439 a lot closer. Vallas also won Chinatown, which is something 1:35:22.479 --> 1:35:25.960 that got a fair amount of attention on social media. 1:35:26.280 --> 1:35:29.360 But Johnson was able to win the two other Asian 1:35:29.400 --> 1:35:34.200 ethnic enclaves in Chicago, which are the Vietnamese neighborhood in 1:35:34.560 --> 1:35:39.120 Uptown called Asian Argyle, as well as the Deci neighborhood 1:35:39.680 --> 1:35:44.600 on the far North Side. And I don't think we 1:35:44.680 --> 1:35:52.559 can really say how Asian voters overall voted definitively because 1:35:52.640 --> 1:35:56.719 Asian voters in Chicago are pretty well diffused through the city. 1:35:57.439 --> 1:36:00.320 But it's very clear that Vallas did not get the 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:04.320 runaway win with Asian voters that Eric Adams, for example 1:36:04.439 --> 1:36:05.400 did in New York City. 1:36:06.040 --> 1:36:09.000 Yeah, and I specifically want to talk about Argyle for 1:36:09.080 --> 1:36:12.000 a bit, because the fact that Johnson won Argyle is 1:36:12.040 --> 1:36:12.879 fucking insane. 1:36:13.280 --> 1:36:17.240 Oh yeah, these are like, like, this is a community 1:36:17.880 --> 1:36:22.440 of Vietnam War refugees, Like these people are hardline anti communists, 1:36:22.479 --> 1:36:24.200 Like you go into these restaurants and they all have 1:36:24.360 --> 1:36:27.599 Fox News on, so like, yeah, Johnson winning these voters 1:36:27.920 --> 1:36:29.000 is incredible. 1:36:29.360 --> 1:36:31.120 Yeah, I mean like like one of the most famous 1:36:31.160 --> 1:36:33.280 noodle shops, there was a guy who was at January sixth, 1:36:33.960 --> 1:36:38.840 like this is this is a like a stereotypically unbelievably 1:36:38.960 --> 1:36:43.040 dog shit place for Johnson. And yeah, and I want 1:36:43.040 --> 1:36:45.680 to say this about Chinatown and this is something like 1:36:45.720 --> 1:36:47.640 I mean you just you can know this something like 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:49.439 I've been tracking for a while, I mean just by 1:36:49.560 --> 1:36:54.760 like walking through it Chinatown during the pandemic and kind 1:36:54.760 --> 1:36:56.479 of after it, and it was having a bit before 1:36:56.600 --> 1:37:00.120 has gotten just notably more fascist, Like oh yeah, there 1:37:00.200 --> 1:37:05.160 is a lot of stuff there. I mean, the anti 1:37:05.200 --> 1:37:08.760 homelessess stuff is really really really intense. They've been going 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:10.600 really hard on the d And that's the thing that 1:37:10.680 --> 1:37:12.280 kind of makes sense, right, like this this is a 1:37:12.320 --> 1:37:15.559 thing that you would kind of expect out of like yeah, 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:17.320 of course small business owners are going to like go 1:37:17.560 --> 1:37:19.599 right like that's like that's that's you know, that that's 1:37:20.920 --> 1:37:23.679 the you can you can you can find Marx writing 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:26.600 about this phenomenon in like eighteen forty eight, right like 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:28.679 this this has been a thing since the beginning of time. 1:37:29.400 --> 1:37:37.240 But I don't know, it's gotten, it's gotten legitimately kind 1:37:37.320 --> 1:37:38.360 of scary down there. 1:37:39.120 --> 1:37:41.240 Yeah, and like a lot of it also, I think 1:37:41.880 --> 1:37:47.680 was you know, there's been a divergence between how the 1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:50.880 North Side Asian enclaves like the Dusty Neighborhood and the 1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:57.000 Vietnamese neighborhood have responded to this kind of stuff versus Chinatown, 1:37:57.360 --> 1:38:03.120 especially on the other big social change that happened during 1:38:03.160 --> 1:38:06.200 the pandemic, which was the twenty twenty Black Lives Matter protests. 1:38:07.320 --> 1:38:10.479 I think from what I saw, like the reaction on 1:38:10.600 --> 1:38:14.960 the North Side among these Asian enclaves was pretty overall 1:38:15.080 --> 1:38:19.800 supportive of the protests, whereas down in Chinatown as well 1:38:19.840 --> 1:38:22.840 as in McKinley Park, which is a Hispanic majority neighborhood 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:27.519 but has a pretty significant Asian population, those neighborhoods had 1:38:27.560 --> 1:38:31.879 this really really big like surge of anti black racism 1:38:31.960 --> 1:38:34.839 in response to the protests. Like there were quote unquote 1:38:34.840 --> 1:38:37.280 neighborhood watch groups that got formed. 1:38:38.240 --> 1:38:39.639 And it was just it was bad. 1:38:41.640 --> 1:38:46.439 And you know, the Vietnamese voters on argyle, even though 1:38:46.479 --> 1:38:48.680 they're very like you know, they have Fox News on 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:52.880 like I said, and they're really anti socialist ante communists, 1:38:53.400 --> 1:38:57.200 there was a state rep. I am probably going to 1:38:57.280 --> 1:38:59.400 butcher his name, for which I apologize, but I'm pretty 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:03.840 sure his name is pronounced han when who is Vietnamese himself, 1:39:03.960 --> 1:39:06.760 and he won the seat last year in twenty twenty two, 1:39:06.840 --> 1:39:10.160 and like he's very progressive. So there has been this 1:39:10.400 --> 1:39:16.479 very sharp divergence in how the Asian neighborhoods in Chicago 1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:19.160 have responded to some of the social events of the 1:39:19.240 --> 1:39:20.000 last few years. 1:39:20.920 --> 1:39:23.559 Once again by people, the Great Nation of China has 1:39:23.600 --> 1:39:25.120 followed into social imperialism. 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:31.479 I think the last thing that really should be talked 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:35.400 about in the context of Johnson's electoral win, and when 1:39:35.400 --> 1:39:37.360 we come back we can talk about the City Council 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:42.760 because that's also pretty interesting. Is that something that if 1:39:42.760 --> 1:39:44.519 you want to watch elections, especially if you want to 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:47.040 watch Chicago elections, something you should understand is that the 1:39:48.920 --> 1:39:52.720 capital m machine in Chicago is pretty much gone now 1:39:53.840 --> 1:39:56.439 and Brandon Johnson's win pretty much seals this. And it's 1:39:56.479 --> 1:39:59.560 not that the people are gone or that like the 1:40:00.760 --> 1:40:06.840 you know, the logistical operations of the machine are completely dead. 1:40:07.479 --> 1:40:10.840 But the machine has now lost two elections in a row. 1:40:11.200 --> 1:40:14.320 Because as much as Laurie as much as Lauri Lightfoot sucked, 1:40:14.360 --> 1:40:18.759 and she sucked so much. She also was an anti 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:24.320 machine candidate, like she was like capital a anti machine 1:40:24.640 --> 1:40:29.519 when she ran. And Brandon Johnson is not anti machine 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:31.560 in the way that Laurie was, but he definitely was 1:40:31.640 --> 1:40:35.040 not the candidate of like the machine. So like they 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:37.680 lost two elections in a row. Mike Madigan has now 1:40:37.760 --> 1:40:40.519 been like indicted and he's probably going to prison for 1:40:40.560 --> 1:40:41.320 a very long time. 1:40:41.520 --> 1:40:44.120 You should explain who Mike Madigan is because Okay, if 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:47.240 you live in Illinois, like you know who Mike Madigan is. 1:40:47.240 --> 1:40:50.600 If you don't live in Illinois, Mike Madigan, for my 1:40:50.960 --> 1:40:53.479 entire life, for like the lives of people who are 1:40:53.560 --> 1:40:55.080 much older than me, has been like the most the 1:40:55.120 --> 1:40:57.280 single most powerful political figure in all of Illinois. 1:40:57.800 --> 1:40:59.759 Like he runs everything. 1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:04.400 Yeah, like he has like an iron grip over everything 1:41:04.479 --> 1:41:06.960 that has happened in this state for like forty years. 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:12.400 Yes, And he finally got indicted on some federal like 1:41:13.040 --> 1:41:15.360 charges of like I don't even remember what the charges were, 1:41:15.439 --> 1:41:17.880 but it was very like al Capone esque of like, yeah, 1:41:17.960 --> 1:41:20.200 we finally found something to nail you on, so we're 1:41:20.240 --> 1:41:22.960 going to And so he got indicted last year, and 1:41:23.040 --> 1:41:26.839 it is actually pretty impressive, Like how quickly his machine 1:41:26.880 --> 1:41:29.920 fell apart. Yeah, like he just he didn't have an 1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:33.680 air ready to take control. And so it's not that 1:41:33.840 --> 1:41:37.200 like machine politics has gone from Chicago. It's more that 1:41:37.479 --> 1:41:39.880 instead of a machine, there are now going to be 1:41:40.000 --> 1:41:43.559 a bunch of smaller machines, which is going to make 1:41:43.600 --> 1:41:47.360 it easier for like normal everyday people to actually have 1:41:47.520 --> 1:41:49.760 some saying the political process, which is a good thing. 1:41:50.120 --> 1:41:52.000 Yeah, and like the the chocolate machine fucking sucks ass. 1:41:52.080 --> 1:41:53.800 I mean, like we talked about val like I mean, 1:41:53.880 --> 1:41:57.000 Vallas was a machine guy, right, yes, absolutely, and you know, 1:41:57.120 --> 1:42:01.160 and it is like the thing, the the the machine 1:42:01.200 --> 1:42:03.520 has two values and it's corruption and neoliberalism. 1:42:04.479 --> 1:42:09.599 And honestly, like not even neoliberalism so much anymore. It's 1:42:09.680 --> 1:42:10.679 mostly just corruption. 1:42:10.840 --> 1:42:12.960 Yeah, I mean, they they've kind of I would say, 1:42:12.960 --> 1:42:16.040 I think they've gotten less ideological over the last twenty years. 1:42:16.600 --> 1:42:18.880 M hm, Like well, like I think the last decade 1:42:18.880 --> 1:42:23.720 and a half. But they yeah, they really they really 1:42:23.840 --> 1:42:27.320 fucked it, like Chicago was like the political machine, and 1:42:28.080 --> 1:42:30.120 you know, like I mean like they're in large part 1:42:30.160 --> 1:42:33.880 responsible for the creation of Obama's career and they've parlayed 1:42:33.960 --> 1:42:39.720 that into losing to like the least popular mayor in 1:42:40.000 --> 1:42:47.000 like a generation, and then losing again branded like somehow 1:42:47.439 --> 1:42:50.559 to Brandon Johnson, and it's I don't know, they've they've 1:42:50.720 --> 1:42:54.880 they've failed spectacularly and fuck them, they're awful. 1:42:54.680 --> 1:43:00.000 And I yeah, yes, absolutely they Yeah. Fuck these guys. 1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:02.560 They've they've robbed, they've they've rubbed the working class for 1:43:02.640 --> 1:43:03.519 too fucking long. 1:43:04.160 --> 1:43:07.880 Yeah, no, fuck these guys, good riddance. The world will 1:43:07.920 --> 1:43:11.320 be better when they're dead. Yeah. Do you know what 1:43:11.400 --> 1:43:15.960 else the world would be better than? If you know? Okay, 1:43:16.040 --> 1:43:17.439 that that was that was That was not my that 1:43:17.520 --> 1:43:19.040 was not my best effort. I apologize. 1:43:21.600 --> 1:43:26.120 But the world's question mark. Maybe better place if you 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:29.840 buy these products and services question mark. I don't know 1:43:29.920 --> 1:43:31.560 if I'm legally allowed to say that. 1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:37.920 We'll see. Anyways, here's some bads and we are back. 1:43:38.520 --> 1:43:41.640 Yeah, we should talk about what Johnson actually wants to do. Well, 1:43:41.680 --> 1:43:42.840 do you want to get into that? Would you want 1:43:42.840 --> 1:43:44.160 to talk about the city council first? 1:43:44.640 --> 1:43:48.000 I think they actually overlapped pretty well, So like we can, 1:43:48.600 --> 1:43:51.160 let's let's run through what Johnson says he wants to 1:43:51.240 --> 1:43:54.600 do and we can then talk about how much of 1:43:54.680 --> 1:43:58.880 that might happen. So Johnson, like we were talking about, 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:01.360 is definitely going to be the most progressive mayor in 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:04.439 Chicago's history in terms of what he campaigned on. At 1:44:04.520 --> 1:44:08.920 least this was a crime election, Like the dominant issue 1:44:09.000 --> 1:44:14.559 was crime, and Johnson did not say the words defund 1:44:14.600 --> 1:44:17.160 the police. In fact, he actually explicitly said that he 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:21.120 would not cut the police budget. But aside from like 1:44:21.240 --> 1:44:25.320 those literal words, he very much is in line with 1:44:25.439 --> 1:44:29.920 the progressive priorities of de emphasizing like using people with 1:44:30.080 --> 1:44:32.880 guns to go through like six weeks of training or whatever. 1:44:34.520 --> 1:44:40.120 So he wants to pass a bill called Treatment Not Trauma, 1:44:40.200 --> 1:44:45.200 which is replacing cops with mental health responders for nine 1:44:45.240 --> 1:44:47.840 to one one calls about mental health crises. He wants 1:44:47.920 --> 1:44:51.280 to pass another bill called the Peacebook Ordinance, which would 1:44:51.320 --> 1:44:55.519 expand restorative justice and violence intervention like projects and programs 1:44:55.560 --> 1:44:58.280 in the city. And he also wants to pass an 1:44:58.439 --> 1:45:03.000 ordinance to put somegnificant restrictions on police department raids and 1:45:03.120 --> 1:45:07.080 like the police department's just actual ability to do raids altogether. 1:45:08.479 --> 1:45:11.320 There is a very infamous contract here in Chicago called 1:45:11.360 --> 1:45:15.600 the Shop Spotter Contract, which is this dumb software that 1:45:15.760 --> 1:45:18.000 is supposed to be able to like tell police when 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:21.720 a gun goes off, and like, as far as I 1:45:21.760 --> 1:45:26.160 can tell, doesn't And it's just like straight up doesn't work. 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:28.519 So Johnson wants to get rid of that. He also 1:45:28.560 --> 1:45:31.600 wants to eliminate the Gang Database, which, if you are 1:45:31.680 --> 1:45:34.000 from Chicago you probably know what we're talking about. Is 1:45:34.080 --> 1:45:36.559 this very infamous list of about one hundred and twenty 1:45:36.760 --> 1:45:40.479 thousand people, ninety five percent of whom are either black 1:45:40.560 --> 1:45:43.040 or Latino. And they are on this list called the 1:45:43.120 --> 1:45:46.439 Gang Database, more or less because one day some random 1:45:46.640 --> 1:45:49.400 Chicago police officers decided to put them on the list. 1:45:50.640 --> 1:45:54.000 It's very dumb, it's very racist, it's very blatantly unconstitutional, 1:45:54.040 --> 1:45:56.600 and hopefully Brandon Johnson is able to get rid of it. 1:45:57.800 --> 1:45:59.240 Yeah, and these are and these are all things like 1:45:59.320 --> 1:46:02.640 you know, as much as we can talk about the 1:46:02.800 --> 1:46:05.920 extent to which like is you know, as most as 1:46:05.960 --> 1:46:07.160 we can we can talk about the sort of the 1:46:07.200 --> 1:46:10.280 complicity of like mental health responders and the police system 1:46:10.320 --> 1:46:14.360 wherever the fuck, Like these things would all like make 1:46:14.479 --> 1:46:18.799 a lot of people's lives better and making the police weaker, 1:46:18.960 --> 1:46:22.080 and you know. I mean, one of the things about 1:46:22.160 --> 1:46:24.000 this election, right is that the people who are actually 1:46:24.000 --> 1:46:25.519 affected by crime vote for Johnson. 1:46:25.600 --> 1:46:27.240 The people who are not affected by crime at all 1:46:27.320 --> 1:46:28.280 all voted for Vallice. 1:46:28.680 --> 1:46:28.880 Yep. 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:32.120 And part of the reason for that is that, like, Okay, 1:46:32.200 --> 1:46:35.599 if you're in a place like in Chicago that has 1:46:35.640 --> 1:46:38.160 a bunch of crime, you were dealing with, like you're 1:46:38.200 --> 1:46:40.080 dealing with the crime, you're dealing with a lot of 1:46:40.120 --> 1:46:43.120 people getting shot, which is fucking shit. Then you're also 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:46.680 dealing with the CPD, who are like function most of 1:46:46.800 --> 1:46:51.559 the time, are functionally a cartel about every like we're 1:46:51.640 --> 1:46:54.040 kind of due for another set of like prosecutions for them, 1:46:54.280 --> 1:46:59.000 Like roughly every like seven or eight years, there's a 1:46:59.080 --> 1:47:01.400 massive series of IRA by the FBI or like the 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:03.160 fence come in and like discover that there's like a 1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:05.960 giant there's a giant artelle operating out of the CPD. 1:47:06.040 --> 1:47:09.160 We've talked about this discover and discover in air quotes 1:47:09.200 --> 1:47:11.400 because everyone knows, oh yeah, everyone knows. 1:47:11.439 --> 1:47:14.320 And then you know, the Chicago police in particular are 1:47:14.479 --> 1:47:16.400 very famous for the Code of Silence, which is that 1:47:16.520 --> 1:47:18.880 every single person, if a cop commits a crime, every 1:47:18.920 --> 1:47:22.120 single other cop will cover for them, going right up 1:47:22.240 --> 1:47:24.320 to the like the top of the ladder of the 1:47:24.400 --> 1:47:27.799 police chiefs and all the way down to like dipshit 1:47:28.040 --> 1:47:33.000 like like beat cop, and you know, and so you know, 1:47:33.240 --> 1:47:35.840 like if you're a person who has to deal with 1:47:35.960 --> 1:47:38.720 these people, and oh, it sucks. It fucking sucks. And 1:47:38.840 --> 1:47:44.600 like the Chicago is kind of in many ways not 1:47:44.920 --> 1:47:47.800 the ground zero, but like a ground zero for a 1:47:47.880 --> 1:47:52.240 phenomenon where you have these poor neighborhoods of color. Who 1:47:52.800 --> 1:47:54.559 you know, the people who live in these neighborhoods, they 1:47:54.560 --> 1:47:58.479 are simultaneously over policed and under police because the police 1:47:58.520 --> 1:48:01.040 don't bother to show up half the time when like 1:48:01.160 --> 1:48:03.599 they're theoretically needed, right like someone gets shot, you call 1:48:03.720 --> 1:48:05.680 nine one one, and the cops don't bother showing up 1:48:05.720 --> 1:48:09.960 for hours if they bother showing up at all. And 1:48:10.080 --> 1:48:11.680 at the same time, when they do show up that 1:48:11.760 --> 1:48:17.320 you often cause more problems than they solve. Like Chicago 1:48:17.520 --> 1:48:22.240 has really truly horrific clearance rates of violent crime. And 1:48:22.360 --> 1:48:27.200 this is mostly because CPD just insists on maintaining this 1:48:27.439 --> 1:48:30.519 really awful balance. You know, if you do believe in police, 1:48:30.600 --> 1:48:32.960 you want there to be a pretty healthy balance between 1:48:33.600 --> 1:48:35.040 beat cops and detectives. Right. 1:48:35.120 --> 1:48:40.240 Well, this Chicago Police Department, there almost are no detectives left, 1:48:40.360 --> 1:48:42.920 Like it's almost all beat cops, and so there's not 1:48:43.200 --> 1:48:49.400 many resources that go into actually investigating crimes that can't 1:48:49.479 --> 1:48:52.240 be solved by someone just walking around or driving around 1:48:52.240 --> 1:48:55.720 in a patrol car. So these neighborhoods, like you know, 1:48:55.800 --> 1:48:58.120 you go down to the South Side or the West Side, 1:48:58.600 --> 1:49:00.960 a lot of these A lot of the residents in 1:49:01.000 --> 1:49:03.720 these neighborhoods would tell you, because they're not leftists, right, 1:49:04.120 --> 1:49:06.880 so they would tell you that they want more police officers, 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:11.479 but they don't want more beat cops necessarily, like they 1:49:11.560 --> 1:49:14.439 want more detectives, and they want officers who are actually 1:49:14.479 --> 1:49:17.439 going to care about them as people. Unfortunately, the Chicago 1:49:17.479 --> 1:49:20.360 Police Department is made up of fascists. So like, ugh, 1:49:22.880 --> 1:49:25.120 you know, low chances on that front. But it's like 1:49:25.320 --> 1:49:27.920 that is the problem these neighborhoods are facing, is that 1:49:28.040 --> 1:49:31.040 like the police don't bother to care, and when they 1:49:31.160 --> 1:49:33.639 bother to show up, they often make things worse. 1:49:34.840 --> 1:49:37.000 Yeah, and I think, you know, but I think everything 1:49:37.040 --> 1:49:38.960 that's sort of important here, right is like you get 1:49:39.000 --> 1:49:41.320 a lot of you know, like it's very easy for 1:49:41.400 --> 1:49:43.760 people to be like, oh hey, look, actually these people 1:49:43.840 --> 1:49:44.519 want more police. 1:49:44.560 --> 1:49:47.680 But it's like, you know, when you look at what 1:49:49.439 --> 1:49:50.799 there was a somebody taken. 1:49:50.680 --> 1:49:54.120 Right before the election that was talking about voters like 1:49:54.200 --> 1:49:56.600 what their preference is on like what their sort of 1:49:56.680 --> 1:50:00.240 opinions on crime are. Oh yeah, yeah, I know, yeah 1:50:00.400 --> 1:50:03.080 you're talking about I think it was like only eighteen 1:50:03.200 --> 1:50:05.160 percent of the people who said that crime was important 1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:08.280 to them one in war cops and almost everyone. We know. 1:50:08.439 --> 1:50:10.479 Part of part of it was like they like one 1:50:10.479 --> 1:50:12.360 of their big consernives was legal guns. And then the 1:50:12.400 --> 1:50:15.120 other big conserve was just like the fact that there's 1:50:15.640 --> 1:50:18.479 these places are really poor and there's no opportunities for. 1:50:18.520 --> 1:50:22.400 People because it's like there's there there aren't economic opportunities. 1:50:22.479 --> 1:50:26.960 There are so many guns just on, you know, just 1:50:27.120 --> 1:50:33.120 lying around in these communities, and obviously that's a problem 1:50:33.479 --> 1:50:37.040 throughout the country, but it's especially bad in low income 1:50:37.080 --> 1:50:40.080 neighborhoods in Chicago. And the other thing was mental health, 1:50:40.200 --> 1:50:42.680 like you know, and that's one of the other things 1:50:42.720 --> 1:50:44.639 that Johnson wants to do is he wants to reopen 1:50:44.680 --> 1:50:47.000 the mental health clinics that got closed down by rom 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:51.040 or rom Emmanuel, who is a previous mayor of Chicago, 1:50:51.280 --> 1:50:55.040 who is currently being inflicted upon the people of Japan 1:50:55.240 --> 1:50:59.080 as the US ambassador, and you know they deserve it. 1:50:59.160 --> 1:51:00.280 This is this is this is what you get for 1:51:00.320 --> 1:51:03.240 siding with the CIA, You fucking fucking dipshits. Man. Like, 1:51:03.520 --> 1:51:05.720 if label Democratic Party didn't want to have to get 1:51:06.200 --> 1:51:08.120 to deal with Rob Emanuel, they shouldn't have taken all 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:08.920 that CIA money. 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:14.479 But yeah, like Johnson wants to you know, reopen these 1:51:14.520 --> 1:51:17.439 mental health clinics. He wants to increase funding for public schools, 1:51:17.479 --> 1:51:20.040 which have very much not gotten the funding that they 1:51:20.120 --> 1:51:22.840 need in Chicago for the past several decades at this point. 1:51:24.560 --> 1:51:28.800 He also wants to expand public transportation in Chicago. Like 1:51:28.960 --> 1:51:32.040 there are a lot of proposals flying around for expanding 1:51:32.160 --> 1:51:37.040 the train lines and bus lines and bike rid There 1:51:37.080 --> 1:51:40.240 are also, as me and I were talking about before 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.559 we started recording, there are a lot of lead pipes 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:47.960 like water pipes in Chicago. Yes, and and like Chicago 1:51:48.200 --> 1:51:51.839 is like supposed to be replacing them, it's proceeding very slowly. 1:51:52.280 --> 1:51:55.720 Johnson wants to speed that up. There's like just very 1:51:55.880 --> 1:51:59.000 genuinely a lot of research on the books directly linking 1:51:59.240 --> 1:52:03.200 lead poison into a lot of social problems, and so 1:52:03.320 --> 1:52:05.040 it's very much one of these things where it's like, 1:52:05.120 --> 1:52:08.280 you know, if you replace the lead pipes, crime will 1:52:08.400 --> 1:52:08.880 go down. 1:52:09.520 --> 1:52:12.560 Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about the 1:52:12.720 --> 1:52:16.040 infrastructure stuff for a second, because like I okay, in 1:52:16.120 --> 1:52:19.800 the in the last three years, Chicago's public transit system 1:52:19.880 --> 1:52:21.439 has just been fucking imploding. 1:52:22.000 --> 1:52:23.720 Oh there are it's so bad. 1:52:23.920 --> 1:52:25.760 There are. There are reasons for this, some of which 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:27.439 I can talk about, some of which I can't. Like, 1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:29.840 partially was depend Partially there's the pandemic and that like 1:52:29.880 --> 1:52:31.920 a bunch of the people who supposedly running the system 1:52:31.960 --> 1:52:34.760 fucking died because you know, they got forced to work 1:52:34.800 --> 1:52:38.879 during the pandemic. But like you know, you'll like trains 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:41.320 just won't show up. There are buses that are basically 1:52:41.400 --> 1:52:46.599 unusable because it's it's like you're basically sitting there trying 1:52:46.640 --> 1:52:48.720 to roll double ones as to whether the bus will 1:52:48.760 --> 1:52:52.320 fucking show up at all. The wait times are enormous, 1:52:52.720 --> 1:52:56.240 Like it's a real shit show, and like it's it's 1:52:56.439 --> 1:52:59.680 substantively way worse than it was when I was in 1:52:59.760 --> 1:53:04.479 this and like fifteen nineteen. Yeah, it's really really bad 1:53:04.840 --> 1:53:07.440 and it's it's atrocious. 1:53:07.680 --> 1:53:07.880 Yes. 1:53:08.479 --> 1:53:10.519 The other factor that's to be talked about there is that, like, 1:53:10.640 --> 1:53:13.600 so the Chicago public transit system is not free like 1:53:13.720 --> 1:53:18.160 most systems, Like it is funded by writer fairs. Like 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:22.080 it's very Yeah, it costs a lot to get on Comparatively, 1:53:22.160 --> 1:53:23.439 it costs a lot to get on the train, are 1:53:23.439 --> 1:53:28.519 going on a bus. And one of the kind of 1:53:30.720 --> 1:53:34.040 like self reinforcing cycles has been playing out the last 1:53:34.080 --> 1:53:37.040 few years is that Chicago also has a really bad 1:53:37.120 --> 1:53:40.320 homelessness problem. And this is directly linked to the fact 1:53:40.360 --> 1:53:42.639 that the city just does not want to give people housing. 1:53:43.880 --> 1:53:46.040 And so what ends up happening is that a lot 1:53:46.120 --> 1:53:51.320 of Chicago's homeless residents, especially in the colder winter months, 1:53:51.400 --> 1:53:54.200 they end up on the trains, especially the two lines 1:53:54.240 --> 1:53:58.000 that run twenty four hours a day. And you know, 1:53:58.120 --> 1:54:00.840 these are people who are really you know, they're living 1:54:00.920 --> 1:54:04.040 in really really terrible conditions, Like they don't have regular 1:54:04.120 --> 1:54:07.599 access to clean food and water, let alone like clean 1:54:07.680 --> 1:54:11.440 access to like like regular access to like hygienic facilities. 1:54:12.280 --> 1:54:17.320 And so ridership really plummeted on the lines where homeless 1:54:17.479 --> 1:54:22.880 people started to like just go on in order to 1:54:22.960 --> 1:54:27.080 stay warm, and so you get the hit because rider 1:54:27.200 --> 1:54:29.920 fares are now down because people don't want to deal 1:54:30.240 --> 1:54:34.280 with being on the same train line as homeless people 1:54:34.360 --> 1:54:38.960 who you know, frankly just don't smell that good or 1:54:39.120 --> 1:54:42.520 have mental health problems. And the city doesn't want to 1:54:42.520 --> 1:54:45.400 give these homeless people housing, let alone like even like 1:54:45.520 --> 1:54:49.360 smaller things like like access to bathing facilities or healthcare 1:54:49.440 --> 1:54:53.120 or anything like that. And so it becomes a self 1:54:53.160 --> 1:54:56.160 reinforcement cycle of now fares are down, so there's less investment, 1:54:56.320 --> 1:54:59.800 so more people abandon the system, and it is the 1:54:59.800 --> 1:55:04.360 same were like this will this would get solved if 1:55:04.600 --> 1:55:09.200 Chicago committed to giving homeless people housing, but that's just 1:55:09.400 --> 1:55:11.600 not where the city has unfortunately been. 1:55:12.640 --> 1:55:14.640 Yeah, and I mean, you know, and what what's happening 1:55:14.720 --> 1:55:18.480 instead is like, you know, increasing anti homeless architecture. Like 1:55:18.880 --> 1:55:23.360 Chicago train stations fucking suck ass because they're all designs 1:55:23.360 --> 1:55:25.160 so that's impossible to sit on anything. 1:55:25.600 --> 1:55:27.760 Oh my god, there are only two benches in each station. 1:55:27.960 --> 1:55:31.840 It sucks some man, these stations like it's so bad, 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:35.320 like it's just awful. Like one of the things that 1:55:35.400 --> 1:55:37.080 Chicago has is they have these, like you know, it 1:55:37.120 --> 1:55:38.920 gets really really culture in the winter, so they have 1:55:38.960 --> 1:55:40.960 these like warming stations so that when it's like fucking 1:55:41.000 --> 1:55:43.720 negative twenty out, you can be in the warming things, 1:55:43.800 --> 1:55:46.360 but there's no They intentionally make it so there's no 1:55:46.480 --> 1:55:49.000 benches in them, so you can't sit in them. Yeah, 1:55:49.120 --> 1:55:52.440 it sucks, like it's it's you know, it's they have 1:55:52.560 --> 1:55:55.800 this really just like the hatred of homeless people is 1:55:56.280 --> 1:56:00.920 turned basically into a war against all society waged the city, 1:56:01.760 --> 1:56:03.840 and yes, it's atrocious. 1:56:04.720 --> 1:56:08.240 The good news is that Brandon Johnson wants to pass 1:56:08.280 --> 1:56:12.400 an ordinance called Bring Chicago Home, which would put a 1:56:12.720 --> 1:56:16.880 tax on property transfers for like I think it's like 1:56:16.920 --> 1:56:21.040 homes that are worth over a million dollars that and 1:56:21.160 --> 1:56:25.200 the money from that tax would go entirely to funding 1:56:25.600 --> 1:56:28.640 programs for the city's homeless residents all the way up 1:56:28.680 --> 1:56:32.840 to and including permanent shelter or like permanent housing solutions. 1:56:33.120 --> 1:56:35.320 So you know, you know, fingers crossed on that one, 1:56:36.160 --> 1:56:40.320 because that, I think, along with the public safety measures, 1:56:40.440 --> 1:56:43.040 is really the thing that the city needs the most. 1:56:44.440 --> 1:56:49.080 And Johnson also on the housing front, he wants to 1:56:49.200 --> 1:56:52.120 liberalize zoning laws, which I know is a very big 1:56:52.240 --> 1:56:54.640 debate on the left at the moment about, you know, 1:56:55.280 --> 1:56:59.120 how we go about approaching building more housing. Johnson very 1:56:59.200 --> 1:57:01.680 much is on like the probe development end of things. 1:57:01.800 --> 1:57:04.600 He wants to liberalize zoning laws and make it so 1:57:04.720 --> 1:57:08.680 that it's easier to build multi family housing and previously 1:57:08.880 --> 1:57:13.600 like single family housing zoned areas. He does also want 1:57:13.640 --> 1:57:16.560 to pass just cause for eviction, so like your landlord 1:57:16.600 --> 1:57:18.480 would not be able to throw you out just because, 1:57:19.400 --> 1:57:23.120 which is a good thing. Chicago's landlords are really shit. 1:57:23.720 --> 1:57:27.360 They're terrible. I have seen across the born terrible. 1:57:27.640 --> 1:57:31.800 Yeah, like I God, like, I have seen ship doing 1:57:31.840 --> 1:57:37.680 tenant organizing that is like like things that make me 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:41.280 like have to control my reflex to vomit just remembering them, 1:57:42.760 --> 1:57:44.000 yes truly. 1:57:46.080 --> 1:57:49.120 But yeah. The other thing, and that's something that will 1:57:49.200 --> 1:57:52.400 matter to you if you are living in Chicago very much, 1:57:52.520 --> 1:57:57.040 is that Johnson wants to cap property taxes. So one 1:57:57.080 --> 1:57:59.440 of the things that has been driving a lot of 1:57:59.680 --> 1:58:03.080 reactuctionary politics in Chicago is that property taxes here are 1:58:03.120 --> 1:58:07.000 linked to inflation, which means that if you are a 1:58:07.080 --> 1:58:09.760 property owner in Chicago in the last couple of years, 1:58:09.840 --> 1:58:14.400 your property taxes went up by like fifteen plus percent, 1:58:15.560 --> 1:58:20.520 which understandably made a lot of people mad because you know, 1:58:20.600 --> 1:58:22.800 if your taxes go up by that much that fast, 1:58:22.880 --> 1:58:24.520 you at least wanted to be going to do something 1:58:24.600 --> 1:58:27.640 good and under our previous well soon to be previous 1:58:27.760 --> 1:58:32.240 mayor Lord Lightfoot, that absolutely was not happening. Yeah, cop 1:58:32.400 --> 1:58:38.560 over time or some shit like Yes, So Johnson is 1:58:39.120 --> 1:58:44.400 he campaigned on decoupling property taxes from inflation so they 1:58:44.440 --> 1:58:48.640 would no longer just automatically go up, which would bring 1:58:48.800 --> 1:58:51.600 a lot of financial relief to a lot of Chicago families. 1:58:52.680 --> 1:58:55.600 And also he would basically like wants to pass a 1:58:55.680 --> 1:58:58.920 lot of taxes focused on wealthier residents as well as 1:58:58.960 --> 1:59:02.120 big businesses to help fund some of the programs which 1:59:02.280 --> 1:59:04.960 brings us to the City Council. And how much of 1:59:05.000 --> 1:59:07.600 a chance he hasn't getting this past, which is better 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:11.880 than you might think if you are familiar with Chicago politics. 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:17.360 Something that surprises people who don't live in the city 1:59:17.600 --> 1:59:22.000 is that Chicago is not run by progressives. There has 1:59:22.880 --> 1:59:26.200 actually pretty much never been a progressive majority on the 1:59:26.240 --> 1:59:30.000 City Council, and there isn't there will not be a 1:59:30.080 --> 1:59:33.040 progressive majority on the new one. That comes in with Johnson. 1:59:33.200 --> 1:59:36.160 He is going to be presiding over a minority government 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:38.520 in parliamentary terms, which I think we should use more 1:59:38.600 --> 1:59:40.640 often because I'm a nerd and I find it fun. 1:59:41.120 --> 1:59:46.920 But basically, there are fifty members of the Chicago City Council. 1:59:47.000 --> 1:59:50.600 They are called aldermen because we insist on having a 1:59:50.720 --> 1:59:53.320 city council that is the size of a state legislature here, 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:58.000 and about twenty two of them are going to be 1:59:58.080 --> 2:00:00.760 aligned with Johnson mo less, so he's going to be 2:00:00.880 --> 2:00:03.640 three votes short on a lot of things. At least 2:00:03.760 --> 2:00:06.760 from the beginning. He is going to be negotiating with 2:00:07.200 --> 2:00:11.120 the black political establishment here in Chicago, which is one 2:00:11.120 --> 2:00:13.800 of the smaller machines that is left in the aftermath 2:00:13.880 --> 2:00:17.520 of Madigan's indictment. And we are going to see how 2:00:17.560 --> 2:00:21.800 this goes. Some of those black aldermen are friendlier to 2:00:22.000 --> 2:00:25.000 Johnson from the get go, partially because of ideology and 2:00:25.080 --> 2:00:27.240 partially because a lot of them just like personally know 2:00:27.400 --> 2:00:31.360 him and like him. Some of them are very against 2:00:31.440 --> 2:00:35.240 him for similar reasons, like they either ideologically don't line 2:00:35.320 --> 2:00:37.640 up or they just dislike him on a personal basis. 2:00:38.640 --> 2:00:40.280 Like we should talk, we should say a little bit 2:00:40.440 --> 2:00:45.800 about Johnson's not like some kind of like political political outsider. 2:00:46.360 --> 2:00:48.400 No, He's been around. He's kind of. 2:00:50.320 --> 2:00:53.400 He has like interesting relations with the old sort of 2:00:53.680 --> 2:00:56.800 like prep Winkle like labor machine. 2:00:57.600 --> 2:01:03.800 Yeah, he's definitely like Johnson is definitely part of a machine. 2:01:04.920 --> 2:01:08.200 His relationship with like the old machine was very bad, 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:10.800 but he is definitely part of a machine that is 2:01:10.920 --> 2:01:14.840 tied up and like the institutional labor unions that have 2:01:14.960 --> 2:01:18.480 a lot of sway and democratic politics here, including the 2:01:18.560 --> 2:01:21.680 Chicago Teachers Union, which, like you know, Vallas's whole stick 2:01:21.960 --> 2:01:23.880 during the run off was that Johnson would be a 2:01:23.960 --> 2:01:28.560 stooge for the teachers Union, and the teachers Union really 2:01:28.720 --> 2:01:33.000 just like the teacher This is actually kind of funny 2:01:33.040 --> 2:01:35.960 because like the Teachers' Union really just swept the board here, 2:01:36.200 --> 2:01:38.360 not just with Johnson, but with like a lot of 2:01:38.400 --> 2:01:43.960 the city council races where they weighed in. So if 2:01:44.040 --> 2:01:47.080 you are a member of the Chicago Teachers Union who 2:01:47.120 --> 2:01:50.760 does not approve of their leadership, buckle up, because the 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:53.920 next several years they are going they are almost certainly 2:01:53.960 --> 2:01:55.680 going balls to the wall of like, well, if we 2:01:55.720 --> 2:01:57.080 can get a mayor, we can get a lot of 2:01:57.120 --> 2:01:57.800 other people too. 2:01:58.280 --> 2:02:01.960 Yeah, and we should mention here that so a lot 2:02:02.040 --> 2:02:05.600 of the other unions in Chicago like are kind of 2:02:05.960 --> 2:02:10.040 ah yeah, they range an ad to shit. Chicago Teachers' 2:02:10.080 --> 2:02:13.680 Union got taken over by this group called Core, who 2:02:13.800 --> 2:02:18.560 are like a sort of rank and file like left 2:02:18.680 --> 2:02:22.000 e Like I think I think a good way to 2:02:22.120 --> 2:02:26.520 understand Core is that like with the caveat that, like 2:02:27.600 --> 2:02:30.640 teachers in Chicago really don't make that much money in 2:02:30.720 --> 2:02:33.120 the grand scheme of things, so like income wise, this 2:02:33.240 --> 2:02:35.120 is not line up. But these people are very much 2:02:35.240 --> 2:02:41.480 like kind of resistance liberals on steroids. Like they're not 2:02:41.640 --> 2:02:44.840 going to be like frontliners and a socialist revolutionary time soon, 2:02:45.000 --> 2:02:48.560 but like they are definitely on the far left of 2:02:48.640 --> 2:02:50.040 the Democratic Party coalition. 2:02:50.960 --> 2:02:52.520 Yeah, well, and we should like they're not like. 2:02:54.320 --> 2:02:59.760 Like they are. They are like I don't know, I 2:03:00.160 --> 2:03:04.520 have complicated feelings on them from the sort of anegicates perspective. 2:03:04.840 --> 2:03:08.320 They're like they're they're as good of a thing of 2:03:09.320 --> 2:03:13.640 like union people as like you currently have. Again, we've 2:03:13.640 --> 2:03:16.720 talked about this, this could change within and you very quickly. 2:03:17.360 --> 2:03:19.680 But yeah, they've they've been responsible for pushing a lot 2:03:19.720 --> 2:03:22.480 of things that are very good. Yes, and they've they've 2:03:22.480 --> 2:03:25.640 they've turned the union into like I mean, well it's okay, 2:03:25.640 --> 2:03:27.200 so like one thing to talk about. Like they actually 2:03:27.240 --> 2:03:28.560 do go on strike, which is the thing that a 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:29.960 lot of unions struck don't like. 2:03:30.160 --> 2:03:30.920 They go on strike. 2:03:31.120 --> 2:03:33.400 They do. They do political things that are usually pretty good. 2:03:34.600 --> 2:03:38.640 And they are an actual sort of like they're an 2:03:38.640 --> 2:03:40.840 actual class base for things getting better. 2:03:41.680 --> 2:03:44.360 Yes they are. The Chicago Teachers Union is definitely like 2:03:44.480 --> 2:03:49.280 a net good force in city politics and something that also, 2:03:49.440 --> 2:03:53.680 like CTU, gets a lot of negative attention even on 2:03:53.720 --> 2:03:56.440 a national level. And so something that surprises people who 2:03:56.480 --> 2:03:58.880 don't live in Chicago, if they know about the Teachers 2:03:58.960 --> 2:04:01.320 Union at all, is that the CTU is actually very 2:04:01.440 --> 2:04:05.800 popular among the cities or residents like most like people 2:04:06.120 --> 2:04:08.880 love the Chicago Teachers Union. Like when the teachers last 2:04:08.920 --> 2:04:14.240 one on strike, the public was over overwhelmingly on their side, 2:04:14.600 --> 2:04:18.480 which is why they won. And c TOU also like 2:04:18.560 --> 2:04:23.480 their twenty nineteen strike against Lory Liefoot was very much 2:04:23.560 --> 2:04:26.440 like the inspiration that touched off a lot of the 2:04:26.560 --> 2:04:30.360 teacher strikes that happened in red states over the next 2:04:30.400 --> 2:04:33.960 several months, Like they very much kind of led the 2:04:34.040 --> 2:04:37.560 way in some in some areas, like so they are 2:04:38.720 --> 2:04:44.000 like like Mia, I have complicated feelings about the CTU, 2:04:44.480 --> 2:04:48.600 but overall they're a good thing for city politics and 2:04:48.680 --> 2:04:50.640 like they make Chicago a more progressive place. 2:04:50.880 --> 2:04:52.880 Yeah, and this has been true for like a while too, 2:04:53.040 --> 2:04:55.760 like like to the extent that when like I think 2:04:56.280 --> 2:04:59.360 back in twenty twelve, Core was like, like, oh sweet, 2:04:59.360 --> 2:05:01.160 what did you But back back when Court sort of 2:05:01.200 --> 2:05:03.320 first taking home was first doing their strikes, like even 2:05:03.400 --> 2:05:05.600 the CTU people were surprised about the extent to which 2:05:05.760 --> 2:05:08.080 like when they went out, like the streets turned into 2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:10.920 a party, Like people actually really do like them. 2:05:11.160 --> 2:05:14.240 Like I mean the cops don't but like fuck them, Like. 2:05:16.520 --> 2:05:17.880 People know the. 2:05:17.920 --> 2:05:20.320 Cops don't like them, and to see to use credit, 2:05:20.560 --> 2:05:22.640 most Chicago teachers dislike the cops. 2:05:22.960 --> 2:05:25.640 Yeah, they've they've been they've been trying to get cops 2:05:25.680 --> 2:05:28.480 out of schools, which is good because yes, cops and 2:05:28.480 --> 2:05:32.640 schools are especially in Chicago, it's really bad. 2:05:34.480 --> 2:05:36.440 The last thing I think we should mention about the 2:05:36.480 --> 2:05:38.160 City Council before we move on to some of the 2:05:38.240 --> 2:05:42.520 other elections we need to talk about is one of 2:05:42.600 --> 2:05:45.160 the things that gets criticized about the left as an 2:05:45.200 --> 2:05:48.240 electoral force in places like New York or Los Angeles, 2:05:48.400 --> 2:05:52.720 especially those two places, is that's very dominated by white people. 2:05:53.920 --> 2:05:57.520 And I do want to provide the context for those 2:05:57.960 --> 2:05:59.760 of you who are not from the Chicago area, Like, 2:05:59.800 --> 2:06:04.600 that's not true. In Chicago. The progressive movement and the left, 2:06:04.960 --> 2:06:07.720 like the leftist movement, on an electoral level in Chicago 2:06:08.040 --> 2:06:11.200 is very much driven by people of color. And you 2:06:11.400 --> 2:06:15.480 saw this in the City Council election results. Almost every 2:06:15.720 --> 2:06:19.400 single seat that progressives flipped on the City Council was 2:06:19.600 --> 2:06:24.440 in a black or brown ward, and even the two wards, 2:06:24.840 --> 2:06:27.480 like the two white majority wards where they flip seats, 2:06:27.880 --> 2:06:31.240 the new aldermen or Alder women in both cases are 2:06:31.680 --> 2:06:37.560 people of color. So, like, this is just like context 2:06:37.600 --> 2:06:39.160 for those of you who are not from Chicago. This 2:06:39.280 --> 2:06:42.040 is not a case of like white leftist gone wild. 2:06:43.280 --> 2:06:45.760 Like this very much is a rainbow coalition, not just 2:06:45.920 --> 2:06:48.440 in the sense that Brandon Johnson won the election off 2:06:48.480 --> 2:06:51.120 of rainbow coalition, but in the sense of the electoral 2:06:51.240 --> 2:06:55.839 left in Chicago is very very much a rainbow coalition 2:06:56.200 --> 2:06:58.480 and has been very effective because of that. 2:06:59.600 --> 2:07:02.560 Yeah, and it's very funny too, because you see people 2:07:02.760 --> 2:07:05.600 like those sort of right wiggers in Chicago, like constantly 2:07:05.680 --> 2:07:07.960 screening about like Lake Front liberals, and you look at 2:07:08.000 --> 2:07:12.840 like the actual base of like the policy shit, it's like, okay, 2:07:13.280 --> 2:07:15.840 like this is this is this is simply not what 2:07:15.960 --> 2:07:17.000 was actually happening here. 2:07:17.720 --> 2:07:24.080 Yes, the honest like the thing about like race and 2:07:24.160 --> 2:07:26.920 its relationship with progressive politics in Chicago is that the 2:07:26.960 --> 2:07:31.000 most progressive neighborhoods Chicago, based on their voting patterns, are 2:07:31.200 --> 2:07:36.680 almost always the most racially integrated. And that's not to 2:07:36.760 --> 2:07:40.440 say that like all of the racially integrated neighborhoods are progressive, 2:07:40.560 --> 2:07:44.480 because that's not true. There are some pretty integrated neighborhoods 2:07:44.480 --> 2:07:47.240 on the Southwest Side that are like very conservative because 2:07:47.280 --> 2:07:53.360 a bunch of cops live there. But most of the 2:07:53.880 --> 2:07:59.240 racially integrated neighborhoods of Chicago are also the most progressive neighborhoods, 2:07:59.560 --> 2:08:03.400 and that like really just flies in the face of 2:08:03.520 --> 2:08:07.960 the whole like white lake Front liberal narrative and is 2:08:08.360 --> 2:08:09.680 something to pay more attention to. 2:08:10.800 --> 2:08:14.880 Okay, again, it cannot be emphasized enough. Brandon Johnson, the 2:08:14.960 --> 2:08:17.800 progressive candidate is black. He's running against a white guy. 2:08:18.560 --> 2:08:21.760 There was a very large attempt to paint like Brandon 2:08:21.840 --> 2:08:24.960 Johnson is like an out of touch, like white liberal, 2:08:27.600 --> 2:08:31.160 which is really funny. Yeah, I think like they just 2:08:31.560 --> 2:08:33.240 have I don't know. I mean, it's just the sort 2:08:33.240 --> 2:08:38.880 of like ideological bankruptcy of like like the sort of 2:08:39.000 --> 2:08:43.000 like capitalist establishment is like they have nothing right they're 2:08:43.080 --> 2:08:45.000 they're like the only thing they have left is like 2:08:45.200 --> 2:08:46.400 calling a black guy white. 2:08:46.600 --> 2:08:50.400 It's just like shut the fuck up, like he believes 2:08:50.440 --> 2:08:55.000 the shit anymore. Like And on that note, it might 2:08:55.080 --> 2:08:56.160 be time for some ads. 2:08:56.680 --> 2:09:01.280 Yeah we are, we are back from our I hope 2:09:01.320 --> 2:09:04.360 you have enjoyed the destruction of the entire world. 2:09:04.960 --> 2:09:05.840 Yeah, okay, so there. 2:09:05.840 --> 2:09:07.960 We have talked about Chicago for a long time because 2:09:07.960 --> 2:09:10.600 you're both fum Chicago. It's very funny and it's very interesting. 2:09:11.320 --> 2:09:14.760 But oh actually, okay, I'm realizing this. There's one more 2:09:14.840 --> 2:09:16.440 thing I do. The two more things I do specifically 2:09:16.440 --> 2:09:18.360 want to mention about Brandon Johnson than I forgot earlier. 2:09:18.880 --> 2:09:20.160 One is that he. 2:09:22.040 --> 2:09:26.120 You know, it's genuinely unclear to me whether this is 2:09:26.200 --> 2:09:29.600 a real ideological belief he has or whether this is 2:09:29.680 --> 2:09:31.440 the thing that he said to not get called Natie 2:09:31.440 --> 2:09:34.600 semi because it was electorally expedient, but he released a 2:09:34.840 --> 2:09:38.640 really really shitty statement on like what got investment and 2:09:38.680 --> 2:09:39.920 sanctions of Israel. 2:09:40.280 --> 2:09:45.600 That was like Herbert, Oh, yeah, it was terrible. 2:09:45.680 --> 2:09:46.480 It was really terrible. 2:09:46.640 --> 2:09:50.800 But Like, based on what I saw from the aftermath 2:09:50.880 --> 2:09:54.640 of that, I'm inclined to believe that this was more 2:09:54.800 --> 2:09:57.920 something he was told to say. And the reason for 2:09:58.040 --> 2:10:01.480 that is because the reaction that got with the crowd 2:10:01.560 --> 2:10:03.040 he was in front of was like he was speaking 2:10:03.160 --> 2:10:07.680 with a Jewish organization. Like the reaction was very like okay, dude, 2:10:07.720 --> 2:10:11.480 but that's not what we asked you about. Like it 2:10:11.640 --> 2:10:14.440 was a response to a question about like, oh, you know, 2:10:14.520 --> 2:10:18.600 how do you handle anti Semitism? And I think there 2:10:18.640 --> 2:10:21.680 are just unfortunately a lot of really dipshit consultants in 2:10:21.720 --> 2:10:24.400 the Democratic Party who hear the words anti Semitism and 2:10:24.600 --> 2:10:28.000 think you have to talk about Israel, which is really 2:10:28.080 --> 2:10:33.720 truly an ironically anti semitic of them to think, like, yeah, 2:10:33.800 --> 2:10:37.120 I think he was probably told to say that I'm 2:10:37.160 --> 2:10:39.440 not going to go out on a limon. I guess 2:10:39.560 --> 2:10:42.960 what his actual beliefs on Israel Houstine are, but I'm 2:10:43.000 --> 2:10:45.640 pretty confident that that was his consultants being dumb. 2:10:46.400 --> 2:10:48.959 Yeah, but like I like the but the actual consequich 2:10:49.000 --> 2:10:51.280 is like he was equitting, like he was quitting the 2:10:51.480 --> 2:10:57.240 SNETI Semitism. He like, go, you should try to go 2:10:57.440 --> 2:11:01.840 find the clip somewhere because it's genuine, winey, bizarre and shit. 2:11:03.160 --> 2:11:05.120 And this is this is the part of the episode 2:11:05.160 --> 2:11:09.640 where I want to remind people that like when when 2:11:09.800 --> 2:11:12.920 when these kinds of people get into power, it is 2:11:13.120 --> 2:11:15.840 not as good as people think it's going to be. 2:11:16.040 --> 2:11:16.640 Like another thing. 2:11:16.720 --> 2:11:19.360 He very like he almost immediately like right after he 2:11:19.400 --> 2:11:22.280 got elected, started trying to convince Biden to have the 2:11:22.320 --> 2:11:25.760 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which would be a fucking 2:11:26.080 --> 2:11:29.120 shit show. Yeah, this is me from the future here. 2:11:29.440 --> 2:11:32.440 Two days after we recorded this, the Democratic Party announced 2:11:32.440 --> 2:11:35.400 that the twenty twenty four Democratic National Convention will indeed 2:11:35.480 --> 2:11:40.360 be held in Chicago. So yeah, it's gonna suck. That 2:11:40.840 --> 2:11:44.120 effort predates him, like that's in the world. Like he 2:11:44.200 --> 2:11:46.680 definitely immediately came out and said like, yes, I'm in 2:11:46.720 --> 2:11:49.760 support of this, yeah, which is like some people don't 2:11:49.800 --> 2:11:52.880 understand why. Okay, So, like the thing that happens when 2:11:52.960 --> 2:11:55.000 when when national convention comes to your city is that 2:11:55.080 --> 2:11:58.160 your city is occupied by the cops and then like 2:11:58.600 --> 2:12:00.680 wherever the convention is happening based we turned into a 2:12:00.720 --> 2:12:02.360 war zone because anyone who comes out to trying to 2:12:02.360 --> 2:12:04.520 protest them just gets like the ship beaten out of them. 2:12:05.200 --> 2:12:07.840 Yes, and there's also usually a lot of anti homeless 2:12:07.960 --> 2:12:12.160 policies they get rolled down in advance. We actually, we 2:12:12.160 --> 2:12:14.680 would would this is It's not as. 2:12:16.240 --> 2:12:18.200 Bad as the stuff we talked about with Lula in 2:12:18.280 --> 2:12:21.600 terms of the World Cup, but it's a similar kind 2:12:21.680 --> 2:12:25.080 of thing that you get with these kinds of candidates 2:12:25.240 --> 2:12:27.680 where they do these sort of like giant they do 2:12:27.720 --> 2:12:31.240 these sort of like mega project developmentalism shit because they 2:12:31.320 --> 2:12:34.120 want the status that comes from it, and the result 2:12:34.240 --> 2:12:37.400 is stuff that sucks and that you know, nominally like 2:12:37.680 --> 2:12:39.840 like at least in theory, like contradicts the rest of 2:12:39.880 --> 2:12:41.400 his platform, right like this this is going to be 2:12:41.440 --> 2:12:42.960 a thing that brings a lot of cops into the 2:12:43.000 --> 2:12:46.440 fucking city he's in theory supposed to be trying to 2:12:46.520 --> 2:12:52.120 have policing done by like people who are cops. That's 2:12:52.200 --> 2:12:54.080 gonna suck if it works. 2:12:54.600 --> 2:12:57.840 Yes, And that is that is your reminder for if 2:12:57.880 --> 2:12:59.720 you do live in Chicago, like me and I that 2:12:59.880 --> 2:13:02.240 just because Brandon Johnson got elected does not mean that 2:13:02.280 --> 2:13:06.200 you could to sit home. Like if you are involved 2:13:06.320 --> 2:13:10.640 or invested in Chicago progressive politics, just because you have 2:13:10.680 --> 2:13:12.600 a progressive mayor doesn't mean you get to sit back 2:13:12.640 --> 2:13:14.400 and relax. You have to do a lot of work 2:13:14.440 --> 2:13:15.880 to hold these people's feet to the fire. 2:13:16.360 --> 2:13:19.200 Yeah, Like you're like, you're you're gonna end up fighting 2:13:19.280 --> 2:13:21.720 these people and it's gonna suck, and you're going to 2:13:21.800 --> 2:13:22.200 have to do it. 2:13:22.560 --> 2:13:25.120 Like if you if you believe. 2:13:24.960 --> 2:13:26.720 In the things that you that you claim to believe to, 2:13:26.800 --> 2:13:29.760 when are not sort of just acting out of like 2:13:31.080 --> 2:13:34.280 you know, either you're not just purely acting on a 2:13:34.320 --> 2:13:36.240 sort of candidate loyalty you were you were going to 2:13:36.360 --> 2:13:38.880 have to fight people that you helped get elected, and 2:13:39.400 --> 2:13:39.880 you're going to have. 2:13:39.920 --> 2:13:42.920 To pay for that. Start the five stages of grief. 2:13:43.040 --> 2:13:47.560 Now, okay, move moving, moving moving on from that ship, moving. 2:13:47.480 --> 2:13:53.120 On, we need to talk about Wisconsin. The other big 2:13:53.480 --> 2:13:57.120 election that happened on Tuesday night was an election that 2:13:57.280 --> 2:14:00.160 flipped the Supreme Court of the State of wiscon And 2:14:00.280 --> 2:14:04.560 from a conservative majority, and not just like lowercase C conservative, 2:14:04.600 --> 2:14:08.880 but like batshit and sane Christian nationalists conservative from a 2:14:08.960 --> 2:14:12.520 majority of those people to a liberal majority. That is 2:14:12.560 --> 2:14:15.720 hopefully going to make life better for the people of Wisconsin. 2:14:17.160 --> 2:14:20.120 So for those of you who are not paying attention 2:14:20.200 --> 2:14:22.320 to this, which is likely even more than the people 2:14:22.360 --> 2:14:25.280 who were not paying attention to Chicago, because state Supreme 2:14:25.360 --> 2:14:30.040 Court races, most people if you tell them about those, 2:14:30.240 --> 2:14:33.440 react with that's a thing. Yeah, and I mean to 2:14:33.760 --> 2:14:34.280 be fair. 2:14:34.320 --> 2:14:36.560 To be fair, this is probably the most nationally prominent 2:14:37.040 --> 2:14:39.440 state street court election of my lifetime. That means that 2:14:39.560 --> 2:14:42.840 maybe four people know about it instead of one. 2:14:44.800 --> 2:14:44.960 Yes. 2:14:45.240 --> 2:14:50.440 So on Tuesday night, Janet Protis Saywit, who was the 2:14:50.880 --> 2:14:56.000 Democratic aligned candidate, beat the Republican aligned candidate Daniel Kelly, 2:14:56.080 --> 2:14:59.160 who was himself a former member of the Wisconsin Supreme 2:14:59.240 --> 2:15:02.520 Court eleven points, which is a really big deal because 2:15:02.560 --> 2:15:06.120 Wisconsin voted for Joe Biden by zero point six points. 2:15:07.000 --> 2:15:10.160 So this is very much like landslide level territory for 2:15:10.280 --> 2:15:15.040 wiscon for Wisconsin Democrats, it was very much a perfect storm. 2:15:15.280 --> 2:15:17.880 Like the areas of the state that have been trending 2:15:17.920 --> 2:15:24.000 towards Republicans experienced massive reversion back towards Producewits and the 2:15:24.120 --> 2:15:26.720 areas of the state that have historically been a Republican 2:15:27.040 --> 2:15:32.680 also really shifted left. And the reason this happened, the 2:15:33.160 --> 2:15:36.560 single reason it happened, is because of the Dobbs ruling 2:15:37.000 --> 2:15:42.400 that overturned Roe v. Wade and brought American gender dynamics 2:15:42.480 --> 2:15:46.280 back by a solid seventy five years. Pro to Saywits 2:15:46.920 --> 2:15:50.960 successfully turned the campaign into a referendum on abortion rights, 2:15:52.200 --> 2:15:55.040 which is why she won by the margin she did. 2:15:55.320 --> 2:15:59.480 There was huge turnout in Madison, Milwaukee and college campuses. 2:15:59.520 --> 2:16:03.240 There were multiple college campuses, I think where there were 2:16:03.400 --> 2:16:09.200 more votes cast in this state Supreme Court election than 2:16:09.240 --> 2:16:14.920 there were in the midterms last November. So this really 2:16:15.160 --> 2:16:20.160 was like every single thing that possibly could have gone 2:16:20.320 --> 2:16:24.360 right electorally for the Democrats in Wisconsin did obviously with 2:16:24.600 --> 2:16:30.600 very very like grim background context of the overturning of Row, 2:16:31.480 --> 2:16:33.720 but a good sign for the future of the abortion 2:16:33.920 --> 2:16:38.160 rights movement that you know, people voters did not forget 2:16:38.160 --> 2:16:40.960 about Dobbs after the midterms, like this is still an 2:16:41.040 --> 2:16:44.040 active force in national politics that is pushing people to 2:16:44.120 --> 2:16:44.560 the left. 2:16:45.920 --> 2:16:48.160 Yeah, and I want to specific we talk about this 2:16:48.240 --> 2:16:55.080 for a little bit too, because, like I think the 2:16:55.240 --> 2:16:57.720 media has kind of has really I think fallen down 2:16:57.760 --> 2:17:00.920 on the fucking job here, which is that like these 2:17:00.959 --> 2:17:03.320 people are like because there's like all all the people 2:17:03.400 --> 2:17:06.800 in the fucking media class are either like themselves are 2:17:07.720 --> 2:17:10.960 like hardline anti abortion rules or there people who this 2:17:11.040 --> 2:17:13.800 doesn't affect and you know, so they just stop giving 2:17:13.840 --> 2:17:15.720 a ship after like a couple of months because it's 2:17:15.760 --> 2:17:16.880 like whatever, who cares. 2:17:17.240 --> 2:17:17.560 But like. 2:17:19.080 --> 2:17:23.000 This is a if you are living under this, like 2:17:23.360 --> 2:17:26.640 this is this is like you can't fucking ignore this, no, 2:17:27.320 --> 2:17:29.320 like it is it is a it is an immense 2:17:29.520 --> 2:17:33.640 engine of death and human suffering that you know, it's 2:17:33.720 --> 2:17:36.440 it's it's this is the US, right we live under 2:17:36.480 --> 2:17:38.480 a normally like we live under a lot of immense 2:17:38.560 --> 2:17:40.400 sort of engines of death and human suffering. 2:17:40.440 --> 2:17:43.160 But this is this is a kind of engine that 2:17:44.000 --> 2:17:45.560 just sweeps through. 2:17:47.600 --> 2:17:50.160 It sweeps across the sort of note what you think 2:17:50.200 --> 2:17:52.800 of as like the quote unquote like like traditional. 2:17:53.879 --> 2:17:54.280 Sort of. 2:17:55.959 --> 2:17:59.800 Like I don't know, you like class liizes the right thing, 2:17:59.800 --> 2:18:01.760 But this is the thing that kind of sweeps across 2:18:01.760 --> 2:18:03.920 the urban world divide in a lot of ways, like 2:18:04.040 --> 2:18:06.480 it sweeps au across a lot of the certain normal 2:18:06.520 --> 2:18:12.320 political divisions because the Republicans have been like there there 2:18:12.360 --> 2:18:18.200 there lying on abortion has been hijacked by what I say, hijack, right, 2:18:18.240 --> 2:18:19.240 this is what this is, what this is what these 2:18:19.240 --> 2:18:23.360 people always wanted, but it's it's been it's being set 2:18:23.600 --> 2:18:27.199 by a bunch of just deranged Christian nationalists whose opinion 2:18:27.280 --> 2:18:30.080 reflect maybe tour like thirty percent of the country max. 2:18:30.920 --> 2:18:34.680 Not even that. Like the like the ruling of the 2:18:35.000 --> 2:18:39.520 judge down in Texas on I'm going to mess up 2:18:39.520 --> 2:18:41.800 how to pronounce this, and I apologize, But if a 2:18:41.879 --> 2:18:46.520 priss stone, which is like a pill that, among other things, 2:18:46.600 --> 2:18:50.840 can induce abortions, Uh, there was like a Republican judge 2:18:50.879 --> 2:18:55.520 down in northern Texas who attempted, who like, attempted to 2:18:56.560 --> 2:19:00.600 overturn the FDA's approval of the drug. The FDA proved 2:19:00.760 --> 2:19:08.600 this drug in the nineties, and his ruling very much 2:19:09.000 --> 2:19:12.199 was insane, like on top of just like the superficial 2:19:12.240 --> 2:19:15.760 insanity of trying to do this. His reasoning was that, 2:19:16.240 --> 2:19:18.840 you know, this man wrote a ruling saying that the 2:19:19.040 --> 2:19:24.160 Constitution guarantees fetal personhood, which is a which we you 2:19:24.200 --> 2:19:26.520 know would result in a complete and total ban on 2:19:26.600 --> 2:19:31.200 abortion nationwide under all circumstances, and that's a viewpoint that 2:19:31.360 --> 2:19:34.400 is shared by less than ten percent of Americans. So like, 2:19:34.640 --> 2:19:37.720 it's just, you know, the Republican Party has gone off 2:19:38.440 --> 2:19:42.560 the cliff after they went off the cliff here. Yeah, 2:19:42.720 --> 2:19:48.720 And you know, I don't know, I think this whole 2:19:49.680 --> 2:19:50.039 I think. 2:19:49.959 --> 2:19:51.800 There's a lot of ways in which this entire sort 2:19:51.800 --> 2:19:54.039 of election, the lection dynamics of this are really grim 2:19:54.600 --> 2:19:56.440 because the Democrats are the people who let the shit 2:19:56.480 --> 2:20:00.400 fucking happen, right like for years and years and years 2:20:00.520 --> 2:20:03.480 in years, they just you know, they used abortion as 2:20:03.520 --> 2:20:06.480 an electoral thing and then did fucking nothing to actually 2:20:06.560 --> 2:20:08.640 make sure that abortion would be that you know, would 2:20:08.640 --> 2:20:10.520 be saved, and they finally lost it. And now it's like, 2:20:10.600 --> 2:20:13.560 you know, it's the thing that's like, it's it's it's 2:20:13.600 --> 2:20:15.840 it's the electoral issue that's coming to bail them out 2:20:15.879 --> 2:20:17.000 of their like. 2:20:17.120 --> 2:20:20.480 Electoral woes, and that fucking sucks in a lot of ways. 2:20:20.680 --> 2:20:22.879 But it also means, I. 2:20:22.879 --> 2:20:26.240 Don't know, like it's it's it's it's beating some of 2:20:26.280 --> 2:20:29.200 the worst people in the fucking world. If we want 2:20:29.280 --> 2:20:31.960 to actually make sure that people have the ability to 2:20:32.080 --> 2:20:35.120 have safe abortions on demand, we are going to have 2:20:35.200 --> 2:20:37.320 to do a lot of fighting that is not just 2:20:37.560 --> 2:20:39.119 showing up to these elections. 2:20:40.040 --> 2:20:45.000 Yes, absolutely, but it is yeah, no, like like Mia said, 2:20:45.080 --> 2:20:49.640 it is really just like heinous that so many of 2:20:49.760 --> 2:20:53.360 the Democratic Party big wigs who presided over the fifty 2:20:53.480 --> 2:20:57.600 years of Republicans saying they were going to do this 2:20:57.720 --> 2:21:01.640 and not taking Republicans seriously, are never going to feel 2:21:01.640 --> 2:21:04.160 accountable for this. Yeah, and I don't think I need 2:21:04.240 --> 2:21:05.760 to be you needs to be putting out with this too. 2:21:05.879 --> 2:21:08.400 Was like the Republicans the entire time, we're in every 2:21:08.480 --> 2:21:12.879 single way they possibly could like outlawing abortion without literally 2:21:12.959 --> 2:21:16.440 outlawing it, and people just stood that like the party 2:21:16.440 --> 2:21:18.200 which is like we don't give a shit, like we're 2:21:18.240 --> 2:21:20.440 not We're not going to like actually like fight this 2:21:20.560 --> 2:21:23.400 except for occasionally to run a losing candidate, right, like. 2:21:25.120 --> 2:21:27.840 I don't know, Yeah, no, it's it's insane, And like 2:21:28.080 --> 2:21:31.160 there are there are people in the Democratic Party who 2:21:31.200 --> 2:21:34.760 were trying to raise the alarm. Those people were generally ignored. 2:21:36.560 --> 2:21:42.760 But the you know, now that abortion rights are gone 2:21:42.879 --> 2:21:46.760 on a national level, we are seeing this electoral backlash 2:21:47.000 --> 2:21:50.880 and it is having the impact of like you know, 2:21:52.000 --> 2:21:57.519 Republicans have been unable to effectively make the national conversation 2:21:57.760 --> 2:22:03.760 about inflation, or about crime, or about trans athletes, which 2:22:03.840 --> 2:22:06.480 is also a losing issue for them, but god knows, 2:22:06.560 --> 2:22:09.840 they keep trying, but they have been unable to make 2:22:09.879 --> 2:22:12.920 the national conversation about those topics because voters are now 2:22:13.000 --> 2:22:15.119 looking at them like, but you're the freaks that took 2:22:15.160 --> 2:22:21.200 our abortion rights away? What's wrong with you? And in 2:22:21.360 --> 2:22:25.560 terms of Wisconsin, pro to say, which being on the 2:22:25.600 --> 2:22:31.280 Wisconsin Supreme Court is almost certainly she doesn't take office 2:22:31.360 --> 2:22:34.039 until August, which is a really weird amount of time 2:22:35.000 --> 2:22:36.840 for her to have to wait, Like I don't know 2:22:36.879 --> 2:22:41.040 why Wisconsin is like that, but it is. But once 2:22:41.080 --> 2:22:49.120 she is in office, Wisconsin should have restored abortion access, 2:22:49.280 --> 2:22:53.480 I would say almost immediately, basically, like as soon as 2:22:53.480 --> 2:22:56.200 someone can file a lawsuit over it, because right now, 2:22:56.840 --> 2:23:00.240 abortion is currently illegal in Wisconsin under a law from 2:23:00.320 --> 2:23:05.520 eighteen forty nine that the only exception to the law 2:23:05.760 --> 2:23:08.640 is to save the life of the mother, which, like. 2:23:10.160 --> 2:23:10.680 I think. 2:23:12.200 --> 2:23:16.040 People who are not personally impacted by the possibility of 2:23:16.200 --> 2:23:20.960 pregnancy or the possibility of childbirth, I think really don't 2:23:21.920 --> 2:23:25.920 emotionally internalize what the language around some of these exceptions means, 2:23:26.000 --> 2:23:29.200 and it's like, if you are hearing the words like 2:23:29.320 --> 2:23:33.560 the only exception is life of the mother, that's really 2:23:33.840 --> 2:23:36.200 terrifying because it means like if you're going to be 2:23:36.320 --> 2:23:41.119 permanently injured as someone who's pregnant, but you're not literally 2:23:41.200 --> 2:23:44.280 going to die. Abortion is not an option for you. 2:23:44.640 --> 2:23:49.879 If the fetus that you are carrying, you know, whether 2:23:50.040 --> 2:23:52.880 you wanted an abortion or not, if that fetus has 2:23:52.959 --> 2:23:55.160 some kind of fatal defect, that is going to mean 2:23:55.200 --> 2:23:57.880 that your baby dies within hours or days after being 2:23:58.000 --> 2:24:00.800 born and is going to be and pain the whole time. 2:24:00.920 --> 2:24:03.840 Abortion is not an option for you. If you are 2:24:03.920 --> 2:24:08.320 pregnant because of sexual violence or because of incest, abortion 2:24:08.520 --> 2:24:13.880 is not an option for you. And it's it's like, 2:24:14.879 --> 2:24:17.000 you know, I am a cisgender man, so like I 2:24:17.160 --> 2:24:20.480 can't personally understand, but like I can only guess how 2:24:20.680 --> 2:24:26.640 terrifying of a reality that is. And the you know, 2:24:28.240 --> 2:24:31.959 the only good news out of this is that once 2:24:32.120 --> 2:24:35.160 prodi Saywans is in office, that law is probably going 2:24:35.200 --> 2:24:40.560 to go away as quickly as possible, which is a 2:24:40.800 --> 2:24:43.720 much needed victory for the people of Wisconsin and hopefully 2:24:44.120 --> 2:24:47.119 is you know, carries the momentum forward for like post 2:24:47.160 --> 2:24:51.440 twenty twenty four, hopefully we have a democratic trifecta again 2:24:51.920 --> 2:24:55.840 that can legislate abortion rights nationally and take it out 2:24:56.000 --> 2:24:59.039 of the ability to take away the ability for courts. 2:24:58.760 --> 2:24:59.640 To strike it down. 2:25:02.760 --> 2:25:09.320 There are some other ramifications for the state of Wisconsin 2:25:10.040 --> 2:25:15.640 that should also be mentioned. For those of you who 2:25:15.920 --> 2:25:20.959 live in Wisconsin. If I say the words public sector 2:25:21.080 --> 2:25:24.200 union law, you know what I'm talking about, the very 2:25:24.320 --> 2:25:26.920 infamous law that was passed by Scott Walker back in 2:25:26.959 --> 2:25:31.000 twenty ten, twenty eleven. I think that really restricted the 2:25:31.040 --> 2:25:33.840 collective bargaining rights of public sector unions, and like this 2:25:33.959 --> 2:25:40.200 sparked a recall campaign against Walker, which failed and proto 2:25:40.280 --> 2:25:44.360 Sawitz has said on record she said it in a 2:25:44.440 --> 2:25:49.240 campaign appearance because this race really just discarded all pretensions 2:25:49.320 --> 2:25:53.280 of like judicial impartiality. But she said in a campaign 2:25:53.320 --> 2:25:55.680 appearance that she wanted to get rid of that law. 2:25:57.600 --> 2:26:00.840 So that law is probably going away, or hopefully we'll 2:26:00.879 --> 2:26:06.279 be going away. Wisconsin also has very gerrymandered state legislative 2:26:06.320 --> 2:26:08.600 maps that are almost certainly going to be struck down. 2:26:09.160 --> 2:26:12.720 Same thing with its congressional maps, which means that Democrats 2:26:12.760 --> 2:26:15.600 can probably count on two more seats in the House 2:26:16.480 --> 2:26:23.080 post twenty twenty four, and also on a basic like 2:26:23.240 --> 2:26:24.880 do we live in a democracy or not? 2:26:25.080 --> 2:26:25.360 Level? 2:26:26.600 --> 2:26:29.880 In twenty twenty, when the Trump campaign was filing all 2:26:29.920 --> 2:26:36.600 of its really idiotic lawsuits alleging voter fraud, the Supreme 2:26:36.680 --> 2:26:40.080 Court of Wisconsin was the court that came the closest 2:26:40.240 --> 2:26:46.320 to taking those allegations seriously. They voted by one vote 2:26:47.120 --> 2:26:50.480 to dismiss the case because one of the conservatives broke 2:26:50.600 --> 2:26:53.080 ranks and he has been hounded by the far right 2:26:53.120 --> 2:26:59.240 in Wisconsin ever since. Wisconsin was one vote away from 2:26:59.680 --> 2:27:02.560 just three throwing out the popular election results, like the 2:27:02.600 --> 2:27:05.959 popular vote results, so there, you know, pro to say 2:27:06.000 --> 2:27:10.440 what's winning is literally an insurance policy for continuing to 2:27:10.640 --> 2:27:15.360 have the state of Wisconsin be a democracy. Yeah, which 2:27:15.480 --> 2:27:17.440 is good, Like I don't know that. 2:27:18.920 --> 2:27:21.680 Having a state that is effectively ruled by a dictatorship 2:27:21.760 --> 2:27:25.840 that was about to attempt to install like a dictator's 2:27:25.959 --> 2:27:31.600 president is good, Like I don't know. This is my 2:27:32.280 --> 2:27:36.320 lib take on this is in fact not good when 2:27:38.040 --> 2:27:41.800 a bunch of people are ruled by just an open dictatorship. 2:27:43.040 --> 2:27:47.200 So, which is essentially what Wisconsin you know, has been 2:27:48.760 --> 2:27:53.280 barring Tony eversus Whens as governor in twenty eighteen and 2:27:53.320 --> 2:27:56.160 twenty twenty two, like until he was in office, like 2:27:56.480 --> 2:28:00.439 Scott Walker presided over a single party dictatorship and wassconsin 2:28:01.920 --> 2:28:04.160 and so like, you know, which is part of also 2:28:04.240 --> 2:28:06.000 why pro to States was able to win by the 2:28:06.080 --> 2:28:09.560 margins that she did, because you know, Wisconsin is a 2:28:09.600 --> 2:28:13.640 swing state. It is reliably going to be close to 2:28:13.680 --> 2:28:16.879 fifty to fifty, but especially on social issues, it has 2:28:16.920 --> 2:28:22.320 a liberal majority, and a lot of people paid attention 2:28:22.440 --> 2:28:26.320 to this race and they saw correctly the opportunity to 2:28:26.600 --> 2:28:32.720 dismantle the dictatorship that effectively has had control of Wisconsin 2:28:32.840 --> 2:28:34.080 for the last decade plus. 2:28:35.320 --> 2:28:37.040 Yeah, and I mean, you know, the other thing, like 2:28:37.360 --> 2:28:40.760 part of what we're what's happening here is that if 2:28:41.000 --> 2:28:44.880 conservatives are actually allowed to do uncontested rule in a 2:28:44.959 --> 2:28:50.160 place that's even like kind of not just like a 2:28:50.280 --> 2:28:55.680 one hundred percent like conservative district, the results that they, like, 2:28:56.080 --> 2:28:59.800 the actual policies they put in place are fucking horrifying. Yeah. 2:29:00.160 --> 2:29:03.280 Bad, it's like obviously bad, but like you get, I mean, 2:29:03.360 --> 2:29:05.560 you get you get stuff like what happened in Tennessee 2:29:06.040 --> 2:29:09.080 in the last week where they you know, the state 2:29:09.200 --> 2:29:17.080 legislature expelled Democratic lawmakers for like engaging in the mildest 2:29:17.200 --> 2:29:22.680 of protests against like an open carry bill, and you know, 2:29:23.480 --> 2:29:27.440 just in a real cherry on top moment, the Tennessee 2:29:27.480 --> 2:29:32.840 State Legislature only expelled the black legislators who protested, and 2:29:33.200 --> 2:29:37.760 the white legislator who joined them survived her expulsion vote, 2:29:38.640 --> 2:29:42.160 because you know, we don't want to be like the 2:29:42.280 --> 2:29:44.880 days of the Republican Party not wanting to be two 2:29:45.080 --> 2:29:51.600 on the nose about the racism are long gone. But yes, so, 2:29:53.240 --> 2:29:58.920 But overall, good things happened in Wisconsin on Tuesday, and 2:29:59.760 --> 2:30:02.680 some some of the really terrible things that were put 2:30:02.720 --> 2:30:05.480 into law in that state in the last decade are 2:30:05.600 --> 2:30:09.480 hopefully about to go away. Yeah, there were some other places, 2:30:09.959 --> 2:30:14.320 mostly in the Midwest because once again the coastal regions 2:30:14.360 --> 2:30:17.040 of the country let us down. But there were some 2:30:17.160 --> 2:30:21.520 other places where liberals or progressives did well on Tuesday. 2:30:22.640 --> 2:30:27.280 Saint Louis, Missouri, has had a progressive city council, and 2:30:28.360 --> 2:30:31.160 there was a very strong kind of law and order 2:30:31.360 --> 2:30:35.240 challenge to that progressive majority based in the city's white majority. 2:30:35.320 --> 2:30:39.280 Wards and after Tuesday night, it's pretty clear that progressives 2:30:39.360 --> 2:30:42.280 will continue to have a majority on the city council. 2:30:43.760 --> 2:30:46.240 In Kansas City, on the other end of the state 2:30:46.280 --> 2:30:49.879 of Missouri, we are probably going to get the most 2:30:49.920 --> 2:30:53.440 progressive city council that the city has ever had. The 2:30:54.320 --> 2:30:58.280 main left wing group got all of its candidates through 2:30:58.400 --> 2:31:01.600 to the general election which is on June twentieth, and 2:31:01.879 --> 2:31:05.360 the main right wing tough on crime group seems like 2:31:05.440 --> 2:31:09.040 it's going to be capped at winning two seats. So 2:31:09.200 --> 2:31:11.520 you know, once again, the Midwest is the engine of 2:31:11.560 --> 2:31:15.720 American progressivism and the West coast can suck it. Yeah, 2:31:18.760 --> 2:31:21.120 there is one more piece of good news, which is 2:31:21.200 --> 2:31:25.080 that in Illinois there was a set of far right 2:31:25.200 --> 2:31:28.640 groups that ran a bunch of school board candidates on 2:31:28.840 --> 2:31:34.240 the like anti critical race theory, anti queer, anti trans platforms, 2:31:35.840 --> 2:31:37.880 and actually I'll just say the names of the groups 2:31:37.920 --> 2:31:42.199 because people should know. These groups are Awake Illinois, Moms 2:31:42.280 --> 2:31:47.160 for Liberty, and the seventeen seventy six Project. Basically, these 2:31:47.280 --> 2:31:49.680 groups are you know, if you went to the South 2:31:49.760 --> 2:31:52.480 in the nineteen seventies, you had the Klan and then 2:31:52.560 --> 2:31:58.160 you had the White Citizens Council, which was the supposedly 2:31:58.320 --> 2:32:01.920 more respectable face of white nationalism in the South in 2:32:02.000 --> 2:32:06.120 the sixties and seventies, and groups like Moms or Liberty 2:32:06.160 --> 2:32:10.520 and Awake Illinois are kind of the equivalent to groups 2:32:10.600 --> 2:32:14.440 like the Proud Boys and very you know, fittingly with 2:32:14.520 --> 2:32:18.640 the analogy here, these groups are primarily run and staffed 2:32:18.720 --> 2:32:22.720 by conservative women, just like white citizens councils were down 2:32:22.800 --> 2:32:28.520 South about fifty years ago, and thankfully, these candidates almost 2:32:28.560 --> 2:32:33.200 all went down in flames. I think there is a 2:32:33.720 --> 2:32:36.520 school board election in me and I's hometown, which is 2:32:36.760 --> 2:32:41.199 very notoriously conservative for people in the area, and even 2:32:41.240 --> 2:32:47.640 in that in our hometown, they've lost. And like these 2:32:47.840 --> 2:32:50.960 losses extended into downstate Illinois too, and like there's a 2:32:51.160 --> 2:32:54.480 small city called Quincy in western Illinois where it's like, 2:32:54.560 --> 2:32:59.880 this is a place that votes Republican routinely by like 2:33:00.240 --> 2:33:05.160 thirty points, like a sixty five percent majority, and these 2:33:05.800 --> 2:33:10.240 far right school board candidates lost in Quincy, Illinois. So 2:33:10.400 --> 2:33:13.200 thankfully people saw through the bullshit and were like, actually, 2:33:13.280 --> 2:33:15.320 you people are weirdos, and we're not going to hand 2:33:15.360 --> 2:33:15.800 you power. 2:33:16.320 --> 2:33:19.520 Yeah. Another thing that was very funny is Carbondale, which 2:33:19.560 --> 2:33:22.040 is like a very like this is like, I like, 2:33:23.560 --> 2:33:25.200 this is this is this is a Carbondale is a 2:33:25.280 --> 2:33:29.000 southern Illinois ass town is like not quite as far 2:33:29.160 --> 2:33:30.640 south tacnically speaking as you can. 2:33:30.560 --> 2:33:33.000 Go in Illinois, but like it's close. 2:33:33.240 --> 2:33:35.600 Yeah, I unlike did their first transperson to serve in 2:33:35.640 --> 2:33:38.920 a city council anywhere in Illinois. So like they're they're 2:33:38.959 --> 2:33:45.480 getting cloudborated fucking Carbondale, like they had a really fucking 2:33:45.800 --> 2:33:50.600 just destroyed. And I'm very happy about this because you know, 2:33:50.959 --> 2:33:54.440 a lot of kids are going to grow up in 2:33:57.200 --> 2:34:01.800 schools that are way less shitty than they were. Like 2:34:02.040 --> 2:34:04.000 even when I was there were like God help, the 2:34:04.080 --> 2:34:09.840 generation before us was just like sve and like would 2:34:09.879 --> 2:34:12.680 have killed like me and most of the people. 2:34:12.800 --> 2:34:17.800 I know, like yeah, yeah, no, the schools that me 2:34:17.920 --> 2:34:19.840 and I grew up in were not a great place 2:34:19.959 --> 2:34:25.000 to be queerer trans of any variety. But I mean 2:34:25.120 --> 2:34:28.440 this is also going to help because of I have. 2:34:28.640 --> 2:34:31.840 I still don't know what the Biden administration was thinking 2:34:31.879 --> 2:34:35.480 about this, but like the new like rule that they're 2:34:35.520 --> 2:34:39.279 rolling out around trans participation in K through twelve sports 2:34:39.440 --> 2:34:42.680 through the Department of Education. This got a lot of 2:34:42.760 --> 2:34:46.320 attention on Twitter in the last couple of days because 2:34:47.840 --> 2:34:50.879 I'm going to be as charitable as I can here 2:34:51.080 --> 2:35:00.240 to all of the people involved. But there was a 2:35:01.360 --> 2:35:06.920 panic on in progressive circles on social media, especially queer 2:35:06.959 --> 2:35:11.199 in trans circles, because the Washington Post decided to frame 2:35:11.320 --> 2:35:16.520 this rule in like the most like hyperbolic way possible. 2:35:16.600 --> 2:35:18.440 And this is not me saying that the rule is good, 2:35:18.560 --> 2:35:22.920 because the rule could definitely still be bad. But the 2:35:22.959 --> 2:35:27.240 Biden administration is essentially, from what I can tell, trying 2:35:27.360 --> 2:35:34.000 to include trans kids in Title nine protections. The proposed 2:35:34.080 --> 2:35:37.119 wording of their rule is not great and definitely needs 2:35:37.160 --> 2:35:41.600 to be improved, But the outcome here can be good 2:35:42.280 --> 2:35:46.640 in the sense that it would ban blanket prohibitions on 2:35:46.800 --> 2:35:49.600 trans kids in K through twelve sports, and it would 2:35:49.640 --> 2:35:53.000 require exceptions to like It would require like any exceptions 2:35:53.080 --> 2:35:56.720 to pretty much be like, you know, you have to 2:35:56.840 --> 2:36:01.119 prove that there is a danger to like fair competition here, 2:36:01.280 --> 2:36:05.680 which is the standard that Title nine uses for sports 2:36:05.800 --> 2:36:09.039 for cisgender men and or cisgender boys and cisgender girls. 2:36:09.959 --> 2:36:13.480 So like can be good? Will you know if you 2:36:13.680 --> 2:36:17.160 are invested in this. The public comment period on that 2:36:17.360 --> 2:36:19.640 rule is about to open. It's definitely a place where 2:36:19.640 --> 2:36:22.560 you should speak up and say, like, hey, the wording 2:36:22.640 --> 2:36:25.880 of this is a little shit, Like, let's be clearer 2:36:25.959 --> 2:36:29.000 here that the presumption should be that trans kids should 2:36:29.000 --> 2:36:32.640 be allowed to participate in on teams that align with 2:36:32.760 --> 2:36:37.640 the gender they identify as. And thankfully, because a lot 2:36:37.680 --> 2:36:42.360 of these dipshit school board candidates lost, hopefully some of 2:36:42.400 --> 2:36:45.440 these school boards will be taking the right side of 2:36:45.560 --> 2:36:46.039 history here. 2:36:46.760 --> 2:36:47.680 Yeah, go go go. 2:36:48.040 --> 2:36:51.879 Okay, So I'm slightly more angry about this than than 2:36:52.520 --> 2:36:53.560 you are, because I. 2:36:55.200 --> 2:36:55.440 Don't know. 2:36:55.560 --> 2:36:59.240 I think there's a pretty glaring hole in this that 2:36:59.480 --> 2:37:02.560 let's asphob just be like, well obviously. 2:37:02.240 --> 2:37:06.440 Like yeah, I guess yeah. I think the affording is 2:37:06.959 --> 2:37:09.640 vague and it should be made a lot less vague. 2:37:10.120 --> 2:37:11.240 I think it's bad. I don't know. 2:37:11.320 --> 2:37:13.800 I I I think I think that the backlash to 2:37:13.840 --> 2:37:15.960 the backlash about that went too far, and now there's 2:37:15.959 --> 2:37:17.560 a bunch of people insisting that this is in fact 2:37:17.600 --> 2:37:20.960 a really good rule and like no, like if if 2:37:21.000 --> 2:37:23.520 it's if it's if it's executed as is, it is 2:37:23.600 --> 2:37:25.000 going to let a lot of people do a lot 2:37:25.040 --> 2:37:25.800 of friend phobic ship. 2:37:26.000 --> 2:37:30.520 Yes, as is it is bad. If they change the 2:37:30.640 --> 2:37:33.640 wording of it. It can be better. Yeah, so go 2:37:33.800 --> 2:37:36.560 yell at Biden until he makes it less shit. 2:37:37.400 --> 2:37:42.400 Absolutely, you have to do this. Yeah, if you see him, 2:37:42.440 --> 2:37:44.600 if you see him walking down the street, yell at him. 2:37:46.160 --> 2:37:47.920 If you see him in a restaurant, yell at him. 2:37:48.920 --> 2:37:52.200 Yes, yeah, very very genuinely, like a It's always a 2:37:52.240 --> 2:37:54.680 good idea to yell at the Biden administration about anything, 2:37:55.600 --> 2:37:58.080 but be especially go yell at them about this. This 2:37:58.200 --> 2:38:01.480 can be done multiple ways. You can and reach out 2:38:01.720 --> 2:38:05.000 to your congressional representatives and tell them that you want 2:38:05.040 --> 2:38:09.400 the rule already made better. You can go there should 2:38:09.720 --> 2:38:13.280 be soon a direct form you can fill out on 2:38:13.400 --> 2:38:16.920 the Department of Education website where you can provide your 2:38:16.959 --> 2:38:19.879 own personal opinion on the rule. But basically, go yell 2:38:19.920 --> 2:38:23.119 at the Biden administration and tell them to insert language 2:38:23.160 --> 2:38:28.080 into the rule that makes very clear that the legal 2:38:28.200 --> 2:38:33.360 presumption that must be overcome should be that trans kids 2:38:33.440 --> 2:38:36.120 get to compete on the teams of the gender they 2:38:36.240 --> 2:38:36.840 identify with. 2:38:38.080 --> 2:38:42.200 Yeah. So yeah, having now yelled about that for a bit, yeah, 2:38:42.480 --> 2:38:45.560 we should, I think start wrapping up the last sort 2:38:45.600 --> 2:38:48.119 of bits of electoral news. 2:38:49.080 --> 2:38:52.680 Yes, okay, so the last thing I think we should 2:38:52.680 --> 2:39:00.320 talk about is probably Denver, Denver for those of you 2:39:00.400 --> 2:39:02.520 who do not know me and I, which is probably 2:39:02.560 --> 2:39:05.200 almost I would hope almost everyone who listens to this, 2:39:07.760 --> 2:39:10.440 I will die on the hill that Denver is a 2:39:10.560 --> 2:39:14.240 West Coast city, is not physically on the ocean, but 2:39:14.480 --> 2:39:20.600 the vibes rancid, and like the rest of the West Coast, 2:39:20.680 --> 2:39:26.240 Denver let us down. On Tuesday night, the mayor's election 2:39:26.640 --> 2:39:29.440 is going to a runoff between two candidates who both 2:39:29.520 --> 2:39:34.640 have pretty awful platforms on homelessness, and there is one 2:39:34.720 --> 2:39:36.640 that is worse. So if you are looking for the 2:39:36.680 --> 2:39:41.240 candidates to hold your nose and vote for, right now, 2:39:42.120 --> 2:39:43.920 you know see how it goes. But right now I 2:39:43.959 --> 2:39:46.360 would say that is Mike Johnson, not because he has 2:39:46.440 --> 2:39:49.640 anything good to say, he doesn't, but because his opponent, 2:39:50.600 --> 2:39:54.439 Kelly Brow says that she would have homeless people arrested 2:39:54.600 --> 2:39:58.080 if they refuse to leave camps in public parks. So 2:39:58.280 --> 2:40:01.840 she just fucking blows and she should be, you know, 2:40:02.000 --> 2:40:06.480 never be allowed anywhere in your power. The other bit 2:40:06.560 --> 2:40:08.720 of Denver news I think we should talk about is 2:40:09.680 --> 2:40:14.640 there was a housing referendum where the proposal was to 2:40:14.800 --> 2:40:18.360 turn an old golf course that is not currently being 2:40:18.520 --> 2:40:23.640 used into a housing development that would have I think 2:40:23.760 --> 2:40:28.960 twenty five percent affordable units, and it would part of 2:40:29.000 --> 2:40:32.480 it would also be turned into a park. And truly, 2:40:32.600 --> 2:40:34.800 what I thought was the dumbest thing that happened on 2:40:34.879 --> 2:40:40.880 Tuesday night. The proposal lost, and the Denver branch of 2:40:41.080 --> 2:40:46.039 DSA was campaigning against this housing development on the premise 2:40:46.320 --> 2:40:51.240 that building more housing is bad if someone profits off 2:40:51.280 --> 2:40:54.880 of it. And I definitely understand that. Listen, Like profiting 2:40:54.959 --> 2:40:59.160 off of housing is bad. We also need more housing, 2:41:00.200 --> 2:41:07.120 and Denver especially desperately needs more housing. And somehow we 2:41:07.280 --> 2:41:12.880 got this incredibly stupid coalition of nimbi's and like green 2:41:13.000 --> 2:41:17.360 space environmentalists and the Denver DSA that all came together 2:41:18.040 --> 2:41:22.440 to stop the housing development. And Miah, I'm sure you 2:41:22.560 --> 2:41:24.680 probably think a little differently about this than I do, 2:41:24.800 --> 2:41:26.600 but I saw this and I was like, what the hell, man? 2:41:27.560 --> 2:41:29.760 I mean? Okay, So here's why I know very little 2:41:29.800 --> 2:41:31.920 about this. My take is that if you have the 2:41:31.959 --> 2:41:34.320 opportunity to destroy a golf course and you vote, know 2:41:34.800 --> 2:41:37.920 you are like, as long as you're not literally building 2:41:37.959 --> 2:41:42.560 a prison camp like reactionary dogs the bourgeoisie destroy every 2:41:42.640 --> 2:41:43.480 golf course. 2:41:45.720 --> 2:41:48.840 Always a good you know, that's actually that's pretty good. 2:41:48.959 --> 2:41:51.600 That's that's a pretty good line. I should start saying 2:41:51.640 --> 2:41:54.000 it to more people. Destroy every golf course you can. 2:41:55.879 --> 2:41:58.920 But yeah, no, this it was I think the most 2:41:58.959 --> 2:42:01.960 frustrating thing that I saw happen on Tuesday night, and 2:42:02.800 --> 2:42:05.800 I think it is one of those questions that the 2:42:05.920 --> 2:42:07.600 Left is going to have to deal with in the 2:42:07.680 --> 2:42:10.560 next couple of years. Is like, all right, we have 2:42:10.640 --> 2:42:12.920 a lot of cities that desperately need a lot more housing. 2:42:13.360 --> 2:42:16.240 So how do we get it done, if you, you know, 2:42:16.400 --> 2:42:18.840 without just turning it over to the real estate lobby, 2:42:18.879 --> 2:42:22.680 because obviously that would also be really shitty. But the 2:42:22.760 --> 2:42:25.640 answer cannot be don't build more housing. 2:42:28.000 --> 2:42:29.360 Yeah, I mean, the thing I will say about this 2:42:29.440 --> 2:42:34.959 also is that another answer is, like, you know, we've 2:42:35.000 --> 2:42:38.000 recovered this on the show to like the other part 2:42:38.080 --> 2:42:39.880 of this. If you don't want a city that's just 2:42:39.959 --> 2:42:42.600 like absolutely horrific, you need to have a strong tennis movement, 2:42:43.480 --> 2:42:45.320 and you need to you need to have a tennis 2:42:45.360 --> 2:42:48.640 movement that's willing to move beyond things like rank control 2:42:48.720 --> 2:42:53.279 and move towards like actively like fighting to seize buildings 2:42:53.320 --> 2:42:57.560 from like from developers, and that's the thing that's happening, 2:42:57.640 --> 2:42:59.240 that there are places where people are doing this. 2:43:00.280 --> 2:43:01.120 It can be done. 2:43:02.640 --> 2:43:04.959 Yeah, so. 2:43:07.200 --> 2:43:09.000 Yeah, like that, I don't know, like I feel like, 2:43:11.920 --> 2:43:13.600 I don't know. I'm not going to go into my. 2:43:13.840 --> 2:43:18.000 Entire thing on the sort of bimbi debate other than 2:43:18.240 --> 2:43:23.160 saying that, like, increasing the power of tenants will give 2:43:23.160 --> 2:43:25.279 you a bet, will give you the best options. 2:43:26.200 --> 2:43:31.000 Yes, very very much. Tenant unions are good. Yelling at 2:43:31.040 --> 2:43:34.520 the Biden administration is good, Destroying golf courses is good, 2:43:35.240 --> 2:43:37.320 and abortion rights are good. 2:43:37.600 --> 2:43:40.800 Yeah, and go fight for these things and things that 2:43:40.840 --> 2:43:43.480 aren't elections, because every once in a while, an election 2:43:43.600 --> 2:43:46.200 will give your result, which is the worst person on 2:43:46.320 --> 2:43:49.280 earth has been replaced by a slightly better person. And 2:43:49.879 --> 2:43:52.040 you know, I do like to not be ruled by 2:43:52.040 --> 2:43:58.000 the worst person on earth. But the ideal political situation 2:43:58.160 --> 2:44:01.040 is the one we're not. We're like people cease to 2:44:01.280 --> 2:44:02.040 rule over us. 2:44:03.040 --> 2:44:07.360 So yes, no, you gotta you gotta do the non 2:44:07.400 --> 2:44:12.320 electoral work alongside the electoral work. You can't just be 2:44:13.000 --> 2:44:15.480 relying on elections to make things better. You got to 2:44:15.520 --> 2:44:16.680 be pushing for it all the time. 2:44:17.240 --> 2:44:20.760 Yeah, well, I say, yeah, I am much softer on 2:44:20.840 --> 2:44:21.800 electoral work. 2:44:22.480 --> 2:44:25.680 Oh yeah, no, no, Mia would rather MEA would rather 2:44:25.760 --> 2:44:29.760 than everyone doing electoral work start doing better things with 2:44:29.879 --> 2:44:32.720 their time and her eyes. Yeah, but if if you are. 2:44:32.760 --> 2:44:34.880 Going to be a person who does electoral stuff like 2:44:35.320 --> 2:44:38.600 it doesn't it doesn't matter what electoral victories you win, 2:44:39.000 --> 2:44:42.600 if you are just not doing anything that isn't electoral, 2:44:43.120 --> 2:44:45.880 because the actual sort of political the actual composition of 2:44:45.920 --> 2:44:48.840 political power in the city, and the sort of the 2:44:49.600 --> 2:44:53.320 city's class composition, the balance of forces between sort of 2:44:53.520 --> 2:44:55.959 like yeah, I mean things like between unions and employers, 2:44:56.040 --> 2:44:57.840 right like directly between workers and. 2:44:57.840 --> 2:44:58.760 Between the employers. 2:44:59.080 --> 2:45:01.520 There are lots of lots and lots of things that 2:45:01.640 --> 2:45:04.240 are very very important even if you are an electoralist, 2:45:04.600 --> 2:45:08.039 that are mostly decided outside of almost almost entirely decided 2:45:08.040 --> 2:45:09.840 outside of the ballot box. And if you don't take 2:45:09.879 --> 2:45:13.240 that into account and you try to just run like 2:45:13.879 --> 2:45:17.200 the most well engineered political campaign, you're going to end 2:45:17.280 --> 2:45:18.680 up like the two thousand years. 2:45:18.480 --> 2:45:24.119 Going to get sixteen Democrats. Democrats. Yeah, yeah, now everything 2:45:24.160 --> 2:45:27.760 that Mia just said, and yeah. 2:45:28.800 --> 2:45:31.080 Yeah, I hope you've enjoyed the longest amount of time 2:45:31.120 --> 2:45:33.480 I will ever be caught talking about an election that 2:45:33.520 --> 2:45:34.520 doesn't involve a coup. 2:45:37.800 --> 2:45:42.400 Yeah, this happened here. Yeah, thanks thanks again for having me. 2:45:42.879 --> 2:45:45.040 Yeah, thanks for coming on and all of you go 2:45:45.240 --> 2:45:45.960 happen to someone. 2:46:01.080 --> 2:46:03.480 My chicken has just come to me. You you don't 2:46:03.520 --> 2:46:04.039 catch them. 2:46:05.520 --> 2:46:05.640 Them? 2:46:06.040 --> 2:46:11.640 Yeah, it's love, not coercion. That is how you catch 2:46:11.680 --> 2:46:14.959 a chicken, which is not what this podcast is about, 2:46:15.040 --> 2:46:18.600 is it, Robert, No, it's not. No un fortunate. We're 2:46:18.680 --> 2:46:22.200 doing the Catching Chickens episode next week. But today we 2:46:22.400 --> 2:46:27.680 are joined by three guests. We have Ava, Mo and 2:46:28.200 --> 2:46:30.720 Wode and they're going to be talking to us about 2:46:30.879 --> 2:46:34.360 solidarity with anarchist prisoners and how you can do that 2:46:34.400 --> 2:46:36.800 and why you should do that and why people have 2:46:36.920 --> 2:46:39.040 been doing that for a long time. So would you 2:46:39.120 --> 2:46:41.800 guys like to introduce yourselves and just tell us your 2:46:41.879 --> 2:46:44.840 names and any relevant affiliations in your pronouns. 2:46:45.560 --> 2:46:49.560 I'm Ava she Her. I've been working with June eleventh 2:46:49.760 --> 2:46:52.640 for about a handful of years now and been doing 2:46:52.879 --> 2:46:55.000 prisoners support for almost ten years now. 2:46:55.760 --> 2:46:58.000 I'm more a melterz crow and everyone calls me Mo. 2:46:58.200 --> 2:47:01.360 My pronouns are they or Mo, and I'm an attorney 2:47:01.400 --> 2:47:04.920 and I do a lot of work with political prisoners, 2:47:05.400 --> 2:47:10.280 people facing politically motivated prosecutions, and incarcerated people who need 2:47:10.400 --> 2:47:11.320 gender affirming care. 2:47:12.000 --> 2:47:14.040 Excellent, Yeah, it's very important stuff. 2:47:14.200 --> 2:47:17.240 Hey, my name is wod you see him pronouns. I've 2:47:17.280 --> 2:47:22.000 been involved in prisoner support for twenty five plus years, 2:47:22.400 --> 2:47:25.120 enjoying anarchists related activities for longer than that. 2:47:25.560 --> 2:47:29.439 So I think if we start off with perhaps explaining 2:47:30.320 --> 2:47:33.040 what June eleventh is and sort of the history of it, 2:47:33.560 --> 2:47:35.480 why this is a day that people can show the 2:47:35.560 --> 2:47:38.720 solidarity with anarchist prisoners, that would be great, and just 2:47:38.760 --> 2:47:39.880 what if you want to talk about that. 2:47:40.760 --> 2:47:43.920 Yeah, So June eleventh started as a day of solidarity 2:47:44.040 --> 2:47:49.480 with Jeff Wors when he was serving like a twenty 2:47:49.520 --> 2:47:53.800 two year sentence for torching some SUVs. But eventually he 2:47:54.080 --> 2:47:57.039 was able to get his sentence shortened and he got out. 2:47:58.000 --> 2:48:02.000 And at that point, Marius May and Eric McDavid were 2:48:02.080 --> 2:48:07.200 in prison with twenty year sentences for eco sabotage activity 2:48:07.560 --> 2:48:12.200 or in Eric's case, being entrapped for such and so 2:48:13.280 --> 2:48:16.200 it eventually changed to be about Marius and Eric after 2:48:17.200 --> 2:48:20.800 Jeff was released, and then Eric McDavid also got out 2:48:20.840 --> 2:48:23.959 of prison, and since then it expanded to all long 2:48:24.040 --> 2:48:25.119 term anarchist prisoners. 2:48:25.879 --> 2:48:28.240 I wonder, like, obviously we're in like eight point ouns. 2:48:28.280 --> 2:48:31.640 People have a few months before June eleventh, and they 2:48:31.720 --> 2:48:35.040 might be interested in doing this. They might not know 2:48:35.160 --> 2:48:38.400 any people directly they're incarcerated, or they might not have 2:48:38.520 --> 2:48:41.240 had an experience with that sort of in their close circles. 2:48:41.320 --> 2:48:45.039 So if we start with like how people can show 2:48:45.120 --> 2:48:48.760 solidarity like to incarcerated people, I think that would be great. 2:48:49.400 --> 2:48:51.880 So are there like things that people can do How 2:48:51.959 --> 2:48:55.080 can they do that, like so that people I guess 2:48:55.120 --> 2:48:58.520 people who are incarcerated can hear them or hear from them. 2:48:59.240 --> 2:49:01.480 Yeah, I mean read letters is kind of the classic 2:49:01.560 --> 2:49:05.200 go to. There's also ways to communicate digitally or over 2:49:05.280 --> 2:49:08.960 the phone with people locked up. You know, putting money 2:49:09.000 --> 2:49:12.200 on someone's books goes a long way. Everything is extremely 2:49:12.280 --> 2:49:16.480 overpriced in prison and and monopolized by the corporations that 2:49:17.200 --> 2:49:21.039 provide that those services. But I mean, if if you're 2:49:21.080 --> 2:49:23.320 looking for people, you have stuff in coming with they're 2:49:23.360 --> 2:49:28.000 particularly political things kind of carrying on the struggle and 2:49:28.040 --> 2:49:31.760 including their name in those activities as part of that. 2:49:31.959 --> 2:49:36.560 And and if you are in communication with them, talking 2:49:36.600 --> 2:49:40.000 to them about those things. Getting their input and helping 2:49:40.040 --> 2:49:45.360 them feel included in those struggles goes possibly the longest way. 2:49:46.000 --> 2:49:46.200 Yeah. 2:49:46.320 --> 2:49:49.200 I think that's such an important point because, like when 2:49:49.200 --> 2:49:52.320 you're talking about someone, for example, who's been like entrapped 2:49:52.520 --> 2:49:55.800 by by the FEDS or whatever law enforcement agency was 2:49:55.920 --> 2:50:00.240 responsible for it, like you're you're talking about a a 2:50:00.400 --> 2:50:05.920 strategic pattern that the state uses to clamp down on resistance, 2:50:06.200 --> 2:50:11.879 and the efficacy of that strategy is entirely determined by 2:50:11.920 --> 2:50:15.920 their ability to kind of break people and to break 2:50:16.040 --> 2:50:19.760 movements by both making people suspicious of each other and 2:50:20.000 --> 2:50:24.240 by you know, locking up and damaging the people who 2:50:24.280 --> 2:50:27.800 are kind of most prone to action. And I think 2:50:28.040 --> 2:50:31.440 doing stuff like this like not only helps kind of 2:50:31.560 --> 2:50:35.160 heal those the distrust that is inherently planted by the 2:50:35.240 --> 2:50:37.440 state when they do stuff like this, but also helps 2:50:38.320 --> 2:50:41.520 the people who are kind of most targeted and who 2:50:41.560 --> 2:50:44.760 have suffered the most for the cause not feel like 2:50:44.840 --> 2:50:46.800 they're swinging in the wind, you know. 2:50:47.800 --> 2:50:51.560 Yeah, I think it helps mitigate the fear of repression 2:50:51.680 --> 2:50:56.280 and arrests and especially things like terrorism enhancements. When people 2:50:56.440 --> 2:50:58.680 know that they're not going to be alone when they're 2:50:58.680 --> 2:51:01.320 in prison, even if it is for decades, like there's 2:51:01.360 --> 2:51:03.600 going to be people supporting them and writing them and 2:51:04.080 --> 2:51:06.840 fundraising for them and like including them in their projects 2:51:06.920 --> 2:51:07.840 like the entire time. 2:51:08.520 --> 2:51:12.520 Yeah, I would say too that meantime a movement or 2:51:12.600 --> 2:51:17.120 something becomes more effective, they become the focus of the 2:51:17.200 --> 2:51:19.440 state tends to sharpen on them. 2:51:19.520 --> 2:51:20.039 And and. 2:51:21.720 --> 2:51:23.560 A lot of the prisoners that have been supported around 2:51:23.560 --> 2:51:26.320 the junior levels they have solidarity, were involved in environmental 2:51:26.400 --> 2:51:32.680 analytes activities that were particularly effective and particularly destructive in 2:51:32.800 --> 2:51:37.480 a positive sense, particularly like the alf and eof actions 2:51:37.480 --> 2:51:44.320 of the nineties. But on this very intense repression in 2:51:44.360 --> 2:51:46.160 the early two thousands that came to be called the 2:51:46.240 --> 2:51:46.800 Green Scare. 2:51:47.360 --> 2:51:50.880 Yeah, kind of our our theme for this year is 2:51:50.959 --> 2:51:55.000 that that repression like doesn't work. All these like movements 2:51:55.040 --> 2:51:59.800 and struggles and activities continue even despite that kind of repression. 2:52:00.120 --> 2:52:03.879 There's still activity in defense of the earth and animals 2:52:04.280 --> 2:52:08.600 and land defense, and there's still really militant queer self defense, 2:52:08.640 --> 2:52:10.840 and there's still a lot of like a ton of 2:52:10.920 --> 2:52:14.280 activity against police and against racist police violence and murder, 2:52:14.640 --> 2:52:17.120 and like as much of those as much as those 2:52:17.160 --> 2:52:19.440 things are repressed, like, it doesn't stop them, and they 2:52:19.600 --> 2:52:20.840 just keep getting stronger. 2:52:21.360 --> 2:52:22.840 I think the only thing I would add to that 2:52:23.000 --> 2:52:25.880 is one of the most important things about doing political 2:52:25.959 --> 2:52:29.800 prisoner support or prisoner support in general, is that the 2:52:29.879 --> 2:52:36.880 state really does work to criminalize politically motivated behavior and 2:52:37.000 --> 2:52:43.280 politically motivated beliefs, which functions pretty effectively to distract from 2:52:43.400 --> 2:52:46.720 the central message of social movements, whatever social movement it 2:52:46.800 --> 2:52:52.800 may be. And providing prisoner support and continuing to keep 2:52:53.000 --> 2:52:57.080 people who are in prison apprized of those struggles, continuing 2:52:57.200 --> 2:53:02.480 to engage in those struggles can really function to refocus 2:53:03.360 --> 2:53:08.240 on that central message, even despite the fact that state 2:53:08.320 --> 2:53:13.520 repression is a very effective drain on movement resources and 2:53:13.600 --> 2:53:16.600 a very effective distraction from movement messaging. 2:53:17.160 --> 2:53:18.840 That is super important. Like if we look at like 2:53:19.160 --> 2:53:22.720 the movement for Black Lives or the George Floyd uprising, 2:53:23.040 --> 2:53:25.880 how we want to kind of phrase it, like the 2:53:26.120 --> 2:53:30.360 speed and like severity with which the state kind of 2:53:30.680 --> 2:53:33.680 cracked down on that and attempts to infiltrate it, attempted 2:53:33.720 --> 2:53:37.920 to create suspicion, attempted to create fear was Like I 2:53:38.000 --> 2:53:40.240 think most people listening might be familiar with that, even 2:53:40.240 --> 2:53:43.000 if they're not familiar with the Green Scare or like 2:53:43.720 --> 2:53:47.120 previous incidents. And it's not just like I know we 2:53:47.200 --> 2:53:49.080 have people listening in other countries. This is not just 2:53:49.360 --> 2:53:54.160 a America thing, right, Like British cops literally fucking married 2:53:54.280 --> 2:53:59.080 people in the like in the early two thousands. It's 2:53:59.160 --> 2:54:02.120 part of their undercover a situation. And one of them 2:54:02.120 --> 2:54:08.680 also went to clown school, which is funny. That is 2:54:08.720 --> 2:54:11.879 a charming story. Yeah, well, thank you not to refer to. 2:54:11.840 --> 2:54:13.120 The police academy that way. 2:54:16.560 --> 2:54:18.320 Yeah, I guess they all went to clown school in 2:54:18.360 --> 2:54:20.840 the sense. Yeah, so yeah, we'll do We'll do a 2:54:21.120 --> 2:54:23.320 long promised clown block episode one day. 2:54:25.200 --> 2:54:25.240 No. 2:54:25.520 --> 2:54:30.119 I know you have some insight into Mariu's case as 2:54:30.440 --> 2:54:34.000 his lawyer, right, so could you explain a little bit 2:54:34.080 --> 2:54:37.120 about about that case if people can understand how a 2:54:37.200 --> 2:54:43.040 politically motivated prosecution works in the exupposed justice system that 2:54:43.080 --> 2:54:43.280 we have. 2:54:44.120 --> 2:54:46.760 So, just to clarify, I represent Marius now and I 2:54:46.879 --> 2:54:51.000 do advocacy for him. Well, he is confined. I was 2:54:51.160 --> 2:54:58.480 not his criminal defense attorney. So Marius was active in 2:54:58.760 --> 2:55:03.000 the very late nineties in early two thousands, and the 2:55:03.280 --> 2:55:06.960 investigations that were going on at that time in the 2:55:07.000 --> 2:55:13.720 state repression that was focused on the movements against environmental 2:55:13.800 --> 2:55:21.680 degradation was deep and concerted and went on for many, 2:55:21.760 --> 2:55:24.800 many years. And that's sort of what we refer to 2:55:24.879 --> 2:55:30.200 as the green scare, right, the criminalizing of environmental movements. 2:55:30.760 --> 2:55:34.800 And I talk about criminalized behavior and criminalized identity a lot, 2:55:34.879 --> 2:55:36.520 so I'm actually just going to take a second and. 2:55:36.560 --> 2:55:39.720 Explain what I mean by that, yes, please, So. 2:55:40.640 --> 2:55:46.080 The criminalization of identity refers to where law enforcement and 2:55:46.160 --> 2:55:54.320 the state are monitoring, targeting identity rather than unlawful conduct. 2:55:55.400 --> 2:56:02.480 And the criminalization of belief. Similarly, it refers to the 2:56:02.600 --> 2:56:07.560 state targeting people on the basis of their beliefs rather 2:56:07.680 --> 2:56:13.560 than on the basis of unlawful conduct. So movements, social movements. 2:56:13.600 --> 2:56:16.560 There's a very long and well documented history of social 2:56:16.680 --> 2:56:21.879 movements being criminalized by the state, even in the absence 2:56:21.959 --> 2:56:28.320 of any unlawful behavior. So the movements against environmental degradation 2:56:29.320 --> 2:56:36.320 were heavily policed, targeted, infiltrated, and many federal grand juries 2:56:36.640 --> 2:56:45.280 and setups and entrapments and successful prosecutions stemmed from that 2:56:45.560 --> 2:56:52.760 criminalizing of environmental movements, and Marius's case was among those. Basically, 2:56:53.000 --> 2:56:57.440 the state managed to turn Marius's former partner into an 2:56:57.480 --> 2:57:06.280 asset and effectively charged him, prosecuted him for several acts 2:57:06.400 --> 2:57:11.959 of politically motivated destruction of property, all of which were 2:57:12.480 --> 2:57:18.480 calculated not to harm human beings. He pled guilty and 2:57:19.000 --> 2:57:25.680 was sentenced in two thousand and nine. Had the offenses 2:57:25.840 --> 2:57:30.480 to which he pled guilty not been perceived as politically motivated, 2:57:30.520 --> 2:57:35.400 he would have probably gotten about seven years because the 2:57:35.520 --> 2:57:41.640 prosecution argued that his behavior was politically motivated, which I 2:57:41.720 --> 2:57:48.400 mean I think is true. He was hit with a 2:57:48.520 --> 2:57:57.440 terrorism enhancement which increased the severity of his punishment on 2:57:57.640 --> 2:58:02.360 the basis of house serious an offender he was then 2:58:02.480 --> 2:58:08.760 deemed to be. The prosecution asked for twenty years. The 2:58:08.959 --> 2:58:13.520 judge imposed twenty two. So here's an example of how 2:58:14.520 --> 2:58:20.080 beliefs are criminalized. At his sentencing, the judge and the 2:58:20.160 --> 2:58:25.560 prosecution both invoked and referred to what I think most 2:58:25.600 --> 2:58:31.400 of us would view as really unremarkable political behavior in 2:58:31.560 --> 2:58:37.440 ways that really cast it as very sinister. And so 2:58:38.080 --> 2:58:43.440 Marius's contact with people who were on his support committee, 2:58:44.640 --> 2:58:49.080 who were engaged in various kinds of civil disobedience about 2:58:49.120 --> 2:58:55.120 which Marius likely knew nothing was cast as Marius being 2:58:55.240 --> 2:59:00.240 in continued contact with people engaged in crimes as a 2:59:00.360 --> 2:59:04.680 violation or would have been a violation of his bond conditions. 2:59:05.360 --> 2:59:08.560 And on the basis of that claim that Marius was 2:59:08.720 --> 2:59:11.680 violating his bond conditions by being in touch with these 2:59:11.760 --> 2:59:15.119 people who again were engaged in what I think most 2:59:15.200 --> 2:59:21.279 of us would see as completely unremarkable civil disobedience constitutionally 2:59:21.320 --> 2:59:25.200 protected political behavior. This was one of the bases on 2:59:25.400 --> 2:59:29.880 which the judge imposed this sentence that was even longer 2:59:30.760 --> 2:59:34.520 than the prosecution had asked for. And there's a number 2:59:34.560 --> 2:59:38.960 of other examples of this kind of criminalization of routine 2:59:39.040 --> 2:59:42.200 political behavior, one of which is very significant, which is 2:59:42.800 --> 2:59:45.240 that when Marius finally went to prison, he started a 2:59:45.320 --> 2:59:49.200 reading group, and based on the content of the books 2:59:49.280 --> 2:59:54.560 that they were reading, he was transferred from a lower 2:59:54.680 --> 3:00:00.240 security facility pretty close to his family, to facility, and 3:00:00.400 --> 3:00:04.240 not just a facility, but a particular wing of a facility, 3:00:04.280 --> 3:00:09.199 which was the administrative segregation unit at FMC Carswell in Texas, 3:00:09.240 --> 3:00:13.560 which was much much farther from his family and was 3:00:14.080 --> 3:00:17.400 involved all kinds of extremely stringent conditions that I would 3:00:17.480 --> 3:00:22.480 argue were First Amendment violations, So you know, we see 3:00:22.560 --> 3:00:29.279 not only the really intense surveillance and targeting of social movements, 3:00:29.400 --> 3:00:37.880 but the really disproportionate punishments and sort of retaliatory behaviors 3:00:38.440 --> 3:00:41.880 all the way down, all the way from investigation to 3:00:42.720 --> 3:00:45.959 through to incarceration and conditions of confinement. 3:00:46.560 --> 3:00:52.520 That's trotious obviously, So I wonder like when he received those, like, 3:00:52.800 --> 3:00:55.200 maybe perhaps you should first explain what a terrorism enhancement 3:00:55.360 --> 3:00:56.680 is in case people aren't familiar. 3:00:57.440 --> 3:01:01.480 It is what's called a sentencing in hand, and it allows, 3:01:01.640 --> 3:01:06.800 it authorizes, or in some cases requires a judge to 3:01:06.959 --> 3:01:10.840 impose a harsher sentence for a behavior that's intended to 3:01:12.640 --> 3:01:15.760 I don't remember what the exact language is, but it's 3:01:16.480 --> 3:01:20.600 it imposes a harsher sentence for unlawful acts that are 3:01:20.640 --> 3:01:26.519 intended to intimidate or coerce the public or public institutions. 3:01:27.080 --> 3:01:30.920 Okay, so that's what increased like nitty triple that sentence 3:01:31.480 --> 3:01:35.400 in that case. Yeah, and with that specifically, like because 3:01:35.800 --> 3:01:39.360 he'd express anarchist ideas or just because it was like 3:01:39.480 --> 3:01:44.199 his actions were in sort of further into that liberation 3:01:44.360 --> 3:01:45.680 front kind of goals. 3:01:46.360 --> 3:01:50.359 I think it was explicitly because it was an ELF 3:01:50.959 --> 3:01:51.920 associated action. 3:01:52.160 --> 3:01:55.160 Yeah, right, yeah, it was part of this crackdown on 3:01:56.120 --> 3:01:59.080 environmental movements. It's similar to what we're saying in Atlanta 3:01:59.200 --> 3:02:02.359 right now, like right down to the terrorism enhancements. 3:02:04.040 --> 3:02:06.200 What we're seeing in Atlanta right now is actually a 3:02:06.240 --> 3:02:10.200 little bit more astonishing just in terms of first of all, 3:02:10.240 --> 3:02:13.959 we're not really seeing it necessarily a terrorism enhancement. There 3:02:14.040 --> 3:02:17.920 is a statute that criminalizes what they are calling domestic terrorism. 3:02:19.040 --> 3:02:22.600 It operates similarly, right, there's a predicate act and then 3:02:22.680 --> 3:02:26.640 if it's politically motivated, you know, so you could, for example, 3:02:26.840 --> 3:02:32.160 potentially have something like politically motivated trespass right or politically 3:02:32.240 --> 3:02:37.560 motivated graffiti, and they could charge it as domestic terrorism. 3:02:38.480 --> 3:02:44.400 The enhancement is a sentencing mechanism, but it certainly is 3:02:44.520 --> 3:02:47.520 not new. What we're seeing in Atlanta, I would say, 3:02:47.640 --> 3:02:54.720 is it is remarkable, but it is a continuation of 3:02:54.840 --> 3:02:59.720 the same kind of targeted policing, efforts to chill social 3:02:59.760 --> 3:03:05.880 mod movements, efforts to disrupt social movements, to isolate people 3:03:06.080 --> 3:03:10.840 to fractionate movements. It's the same kind of thing that 3:03:10.920 --> 3:03:15.600 we have seen really since the beginning of policing in 3:03:15.680 --> 3:03:16.920 this country, and. 3:03:16.959 --> 3:03:18.600 That makes a lot of sense when you consider like 3:03:18.720 --> 3:03:23.120 the role of the police within the state and the 3:03:23.240 --> 3:03:26.039 goals of some of these social movements, right, which we're 3:03:26.040 --> 3:03:27.920 pretty to have to explain that in detail for people 3:03:27.959 --> 3:03:32.720 to understand what's going on. So like with these people 3:03:32.800 --> 3:03:35.359 facing you mentioned a couple of the other people who 3:03:35.360 --> 3:03:39.400 would face political persecutions and were incarcerated and then had 3:03:39.440 --> 3:03:43.560 their sentences reduced, and maybe we could explain like how 3:03:44.240 --> 3:03:46.320 that was able to happen, right, because that's obviously like 3:03:46.400 --> 3:03:47.400 a desirable outcome. 3:03:48.520 --> 3:03:52.360 I don't know the like the legal things that happened 3:03:52.440 --> 3:03:53.360 for that, but it was like. 3:03:54.879 --> 3:03:56.720 It was like in the coret room kind of a solution. 3:03:56.920 --> 3:04:00.520 Okay, Yeah, I'm curious, just kind of engener role since 3:04:00.720 --> 3:04:03.760 you've all had more contact with these folks who are 3:04:04.000 --> 3:04:07.320 incarcerated and have been kind of the victims of this 3:04:08.200 --> 3:04:12.080 state violence when they talk about like what is kind 3:04:12.080 --> 3:04:15.520 of meaningful to them in terms of outside connections, in 3:04:15.640 --> 3:04:17.840 terms of like, you know what we're talking about here, 3:04:19.120 --> 3:04:21.080 what kind of stuff do they bring up is like 3:04:21.200 --> 3:04:24.640 having a positive impact on their mental health, on their 3:04:24.879 --> 3:04:27.920 kind of ability to endure they're what they're going through. 3:04:28.840 --> 3:04:30.920 First, I would say that communication is a big thing, 3:04:31.040 --> 3:04:33.480 like being able to talk to people, to write with people, 3:04:34.600 --> 3:04:38.520 and you know, a long term like regular correspondence is great. 3:04:38.600 --> 3:04:42.360 But even just like little messages of solidarity can be 3:04:42.480 --> 3:04:47.640 really meaningful. Material support is always huge, Like that's going 3:04:47.680 --> 3:04:49.440 to make somebody sound a little bit better if they 3:04:49.480 --> 3:04:52.000 can get stuff off a commissary, you know, buy enough stamps, 3:04:52.000 --> 3:04:54.800 all those things. But the thing that I hear a 3:04:54.879 --> 3:04:59.400 lot is like people want to see the projects and 3:04:59.440 --> 3:05:03.879 the struggles that they're involved in continue. So if that's 3:05:04.000 --> 3:05:06.680 like defense of the earth, if that's against the police 3:05:06.800 --> 3:05:10.039 or or whatever it is, like people like to see 3:05:10.120 --> 3:05:13.400 that because it's you know, it's not just about their 3:05:13.440 --> 3:05:15.720 own case, but yeah, about those movements that they come 3:05:15.800 --> 3:05:20.680 from and or somebody's you know, radicalized inside these things 3:05:20.680 --> 3:05:25.520 that they have committed to and been written from participating 3:05:25.600 --> 3:05:29.760 in a huge way, not entirely, but you know, people 3:05:29.879 --> 3:05:33.920 like to see to see that continue and see see victories, 3:05:34.080 --> 3:05:36.520 see like creative attempts and things like that. 3:05:37.360 --> 3:05:39.720 That makes a lot of sense, I think, so for 3:05:39.840 --> 3:05:42.800 people like I know, like I'll sort that right to 3:05:42.840 --> 3:05:46.880 incarcerate to people for the various things. And it can 3:05:46.920 --> 3:05:50.119 be quite difficult to like to work out the process 3:05:50.160 --> 3:05:53.840 of doing that, and it can be especially difficult. It 3:05:53.959 --> 3:05:56.760 was especially difficult during during like the worst of the 3:05:56.840 --> 3:06:00.840 COVID kind of lockdowns and search and like you couldn't. 3:06:00.920 --> 3:06:02.680 I was trying to write to a guy in one 3:06:03.000 --> 3:06:07.039 federal in tear hote and they wouldn't let the person 3:06:07.160 --> 3:06:09.280 email me because they claimed that the keyboard was like 3:06:09.360 --> 3:06:12.360 a high touch surface and this yeah, right, like and 3:06:12.959 --> 3:06:17.160 which people were getting COVID in this facility all the time. 3:06:18.760 --> 3:06:21.280 But how would folks go about, like, let's say they 3:06:21.360 --> 3:06:23.360 wanted to to write to Marius and just say, like, 3:06:24.879 --> 3:06:27.480 you know, we wanted to express the solidarity and say 3:06:28.040 --> 3:06:29.520 sucks that this is happening to you or whatever. How 3:06:29.560 --> 3:06:30.600 would they go about doing that. 3:06:31.520 --> 3:06:32.240 There's a couple of. 3:06:32.280 --> 3:06:35.240 Things that are specific with Marius that I will want 3:06:35.280 --> 3:06:37.920 to tell you, but you can go to if you 3:06:37.959 --> 3:06:43.840 google inmate locator bop, you can search Marius's name or 3:06:43.920 --> 3:06:48.280 the name of any other prisoner and you'll basically end 3:06:48.400 --> 3:06:54.200 up with it'll show you their information, including where they 3:06:54.280 --> 3:06:58.640 are confined, and you can usually click on the name 3:06:58.680 --> 3:07:00.960 of the facility and it will take you to the 3:07:01.000 --> 3:07:04.240 website for that facility and show you how to send 3:07:04.320 --> 3:07:08.480 mail to the prisoner. There's also if you go to 3:07:09.000 --> 3:07:14.680 NYCABC dot WordPress dot com or any of the other 3:07:15.160 --> 3:07:21.080 Anarchist Black Cross websites. NYC ABC is my home chapter, 3:07:21.320 --> 3:07:24.000 so that's the one I'm familiar with. But if you 3:07:24.080 --> 3:07:27.840 go to the Anarchist Black Cross websites, there are zines 3:07:27.879 --> 3:07:30.600 and I think a whole list that is pretty well 3:07:30.720 --> 3:07:36.039 updated of all of the anarchists political prisoners and instructions 3:07:36.080 --> 3:07:39.039 on how to write to them. One of the things 3:07:39.320 --> 3:07:42.760 that is on those websites that I would highly encourage 3:07:42.800 --> 3:07:49.640 you to take seriously our instructions about how to responsibly 3:07:49.720 --> 3:07:54.959 write to people who are under increased monitoring and surveillance 3:07:55.560 --> 3:08:02.280 while they are being confined. Because retaliation against prisoners, even 3:08:02.400 --> 3:08:06.760 for things that the prisoners themselves have not done, is 3:08:07.480 --> 3:08:11.240 very commonplace. And so if somebody while we very much 3:08:11.320 --> 3:08:13.640 want to make sure we keep in touch with people 3:08:14.240 --> 3:08:17.440 and give them news of the outside world, including news 3:08:17.480 --> 3:08:21.000 about their social movements, one thing that can happen is 3:08:21.160 --> 3:08:25.160 that those letters simply will not be delivered. And another 3:08:25.280 --> 3:08:28.039 thing that might happen is that the prisoner themselves may 3:08:28.680 --> 3:08:34.119 face disciplinary consequences, formally or informally just as a result 3:08:34.240 --> 3:08:38.440 of having been the intended recipient of that news. So 3:08:39.440 --> 3:08:43.440 you know, I would say, as I often say, discretion 3:08:43.680 --> 3:08:44.800 is the better part of valor. 3:08:45.320 --> 3:08:47.920 In this instance, I think you have to have. 3:08:49.480 --> 3:08:52.520 A kind of a first do no harm attitude about this, 3:08:52.760 --> 3:08:56.400 where like, at the end of the day, regardless of 3:08:56.600 --> 3:08:59.520 like your anger or your desire to talk about, you know, 3:09:00.160 --> 3:09:04.240 certain things, your primary concern here has to be not 3:09:04.440 --> 3:09:08.199 making things worse for somebody who's already in a terrible situation. 3:09:09.000 --> 3:09:11.720 Yes, and I would also like to point out that 3:09:12.360 --> 3:09:16.760 prisoner mail is monitored, and so among other things, you 3:09:16.879 --> 3:09:22.640 might be making things worse for yourself, so I would 3:09:23.160 --> 3:09:26.960 be cautious and circumspect about what you write to people 3:09:27.000 --> 3:09:30.800 whose mail is being read. The other thing is with 3:09:30.920 --> 3:09:34.120 respect to Marius in particular. Unfortunately, in order to get 3:09:34.200 --> 3:09:36.360 mail to him, you still have to dead name him. 3:09:37.640 --> 3:09:41.000 And if you want to hear more about that particular 3:09:41.120 --> 3:09:43.880 set of struggles, I'm happy to talk about it. But 3:09:44.560 --> 3:09:47.520 suffice it to say for now that if you go 3:09:47.760 --> 3:09:52.400 to support Mariusmason dot org, there should be some instructions 3:09:52.640 --> 3:09:54.600 about how to write to him, and I'll make sure 3:09:54.640 --> 3:09:58.320 that the support group puts up clear instructions, but unfortunately 3:09:58.440 --> 3:10:01.240 you do have to put his dead name on that 3:10:01.440 --> 3:10:02.600 envelope or it will. 3:10:02.440 --> 3:10:03.160 Not get to him. 3:10:03.520 --> 3:10:07.119 It's extremely frustrating, but yeah, it could be really annoying, 3:10:07.120 --> 3:10:10.560 sespecially if you're trying to look for somebody. I'm using 3:10:10.600 --> 3:10:12.840 the locator and it has a gender note fire and 3:10:13.320 --> 3:10:17.280 it's not the correct gender notifier, and yeah, that can 3:10:17.360 --> 3:10:21.800 be difficult, but like, yeah, it's an effort worth making, right, 3:10:21.879 --> 3:10:24.680 and it really can help someone who's going through a 3:10:24.720 --> 3:10:25.400 difficult time. 3:10:25.959 --> 3:10:29.560 Yeah, and people do have really specific interests apart from 3:10:29.640 --> 3:10:34.920 movement work as well. And you know Marius paints. He 3:10:35.000 --> 3:10:37.880 sent me this incredible He sent me a number of 3:10:38.000 --> 3:10:42.400 paintings over the years. I have one actually that I 3:10:42.480 --> 3:10:45.160 think I shared with you earlier Sacho and Vanzetti that 3:10:45.280 --> 3:10:48.440 he made. He sent me a really great portrait of 3:10:48.560 --> 3:10:53.400 Jimmy Page once. He also recently sent me a beautiful 3:10:53.520 --> 3:10:57.840 scarf that he had knitted or crocheted. I guess people 3:10:57.920 --> 3:11:01.320 have hobbies, people have interests, and they're happy to talk about. 3:11:01.120 --> 3:11:02.000 Those things as well. 3:11:03.040 --> 3:11:05.200 Yeah, that's what makes us like a whole person, right, 3:11:05.320 --> 3:11:07.400 And I think having a little bit of that helps 3:11:07.440 --> 3:11:10.440 you to keep that little part of yourself in what 3:11:10.560 --> 3:11:12.959 could be a difficult place. So yeah, hope people can 3:11:13.280 --> 3:11:17.000 send crochet letters. I'm sure we have some keen croche listeners. 3:11:17.560 --> 3:11:19.160 This is probably the part of the podcast where we 3:11:19.240 --> 3:11:23.120 stop and make ourselves amenable to capitalism by doing an 3:11:23.120 --> 3:11:29.080 ad break. I wonder what can people do on June eleventh, 3:11:29.520 --> 3:11:33.320 right right? Obviously, like people should keep on this ongoing correspondence. 3:11:33.320 --> 3:11:35.640 I think that's really important. And I would speaking to 3:11:35.720 --> 3:11:38.520 someone from their Leonard Peltier free lended peltya group the 3:11:38.600 --> 3:11:40.280 other day, and I know a lot of people write 3:11:40.280 --> 3:11:42.240 to lend A Peltier and like, I know that that's 3:11:43.080 --> 3:11:45.240 a great source of like strength for him, especially as 3:11:45.280 --> 3:11:49.680 he's like aging in prison. I was wondering what people 3:11:49.720 --> 3:11:52.920 could do on June eleventh to sort of further discourse, 3:11:52.959 --> 3:11:56.080 spread the word take actions to solidarity kind of things 3:11:56.080 --> 3:11:56.680 to people. 3:11:56.840 --> 3:12:02.760 Do Juna elevens activities. You know, actions and solidarity really 3:12:02.840 --> 3:12:05.560 run the gambit. You know, It's been very popular to 3:12:06.000 --> 3:12:09.760 have like a barbecue or a benefit show things to 3:12:09.840 --> 3:12:14.280 raise money, and then there's actions that more have more 3:12:14.280 --> 3:12:17.920 in common with why some of these people were incarcerated. Uh, 3:12:18.160 --> 3:12:21.240 and like if you check the website June eleven dot org. 3:12:21.720 --> 3:12:25.520 There's a list of previous actions that people have taken 3:12:25.840 --> 3:12:31.720 and the whole uh gambit of activities that you know, 3:12:31.760 --> 3:12:37.280 people have participated in. I know, with the revitalization of 3:12:37.680 --> 3:12:41.879 of this as like an international base of solidarity, there 3:12:42.040 --> 3:12:45.280 was an interest in trying to think outside the box more. 3:12:45.400 --> 3:12:49.080 You know, it's it's difficult to like, no one's going 3:12:49.120 --> 3:12:52.480 to reinvent the wheel, or you know, maybe they that's 3:12:52.480 --> 3:12:56.240 as much as they're doing. But but there is a 3:12:56.360 --> 3:12:58.400 variety different activities. In last year's theme was sort of 3:12:58.480 --> 3:13:02.840 like doing something different than you might normally do, just 3:13:03.720 --> 3:13:05.240 diversify what is happening. 3:13:05.879 --> 3:13:08.320 One of my dreams for John eleventh is for it 3:13:08.440 --> 3:13:12.640 to be an opportunity for you know, our movement prisoners 3:13:12.680 --> 3:13:15.640 to be integrated into other things. So it's you know, 3:13:15.720 --> 3:13:17.360 it doesn't have to just be oh, this is like 3:13:17.520 --> 3:13:19.680 the prisoner support to activity, or like we're just going 3:13:19.720 --> 3:13:22.200 to write letters. But you know, people do things like 3:13:22.800 --> 3:13:26.080 art shows like mo mentioned like a lot of people paint, 3:13:26.280 --> 3:13:29.120 a lot of people write poetry, and to integrate that 3:13:29.280 --> 3:13:33.160 into like maybe already have like you know, a community 3:13:33.200 --> 3:13:37.040 around poetry readings, or something like that, and just to 3:13:37.160 --> 3:13:39.840 bring that into into whatever like little corner of the 3:13:39.879 --> 3:13:43.160 world or whatever kind of activities that were already involved 3:13:43.200 --> 3:13:46.400 in for these things to like reference each other, right 3:13:46.480 --> 3:13:50.080 like we reference our prisoners and they can reference these 3:13:50.600 --> 3:13:53.039 things that are happening outside that are like integrating them. 3:13:53.959 --> 3:13:59.120 One of the things that since I've been involved, a 3:13:59.200 --> 3:14:03.240 lot of times we try to illicit or solicit statements 3:14:03.640 --> 3:14:07.880 from the people we represent. I have been to a 3:14:08.040 --> 3:14:12.160 number of really wonderful June eleventh activities that have included 3:14:12.360 --> 3:14:16.279 an art show, a number of punk shows in various 3:14:16.400 --> 3:14:21.320 people's basements. And I think as just an individual, I mean, 3:14:21.400 --> 3:14:23.200 first of all, I think it's a great opportunity to 3:14:24.120 --> 3:14:29.280 do community building, to do letter writing. But I think 3:14:29.280 --> 3:14:32.840 it's also something that even if you are, you know, 3:14:33.000 --> 3:14:37.360 relatively isolated, you know, you can just make a commitment today, 3:14:37.400 --> 3:14:40.320 I'm gonna send five bucks to somebody's commissary. 3:14:43.240 --> 3:14:43.440 Yeah. 3:14:43.560 --> 3:14:43.880 I think. 3:14:44.360 --> 3:14:47.760 I was looking back at one of Marius's previous June 3:14:47.760 --> 3:14:50.200 eleventh statements and one of the things he referred to 3:14:51.080 --> 3:14:57.800 was a civil rights attorney that he'd worked with was asked, 3:14:58.800 --> 3:15:04.039 you know, what does the movement need most and he responded, 3:15:04.280 --> 3:15:09.640 everything is everything, meaning you know, anything, any advocacy that 3:15:09.720 --> 3:15:12.320 you do in one area will redound to the benefit 3:15:12.480 --> 3:15:14.800 of all of the rest of us and all of 3:15:14.840 --> 3:15:15.720 the other areas. 3:15:15.879 --> 3:15:17.400 And I have found that to be. 3:15:17.480 --> 3:15:19.760 True, and I have found that specifically to be true 3:15:21.760 --> 3:15:26.800 even in terms of the legal effects of doing advocacy 3:15:26.920 --> 3:15:32.320 for Marius has had really huge benefits for other trans 3:15:32.440 --> 3:15:35.480 folks who are in prison who I've represented, and then 3:15:35.560 --> 3:15:39.959 doing advocacy for those folks has had really incredible benefits 3:15:40.440 --> 3:15:44.199 for Marius. So I mean, I think it is materially 3:15:44.320 --> 3:15:48.240 the case that you know, you struggle where you are, 3:15:48.360 --> 3:15:50.840 you do what you can on June eleventh or any 3:15:50.920 --> 3:15:51.560 other day. 3:15:52.080 --> 3:15:54.080 And you know, you move the needle. 3:15:54.800 --> 3:15:58.720 Yeah, and it's very well see absolutely, you. 3:15:58.760 --> 3:16:02.360 Know, Dune eleventh the specific for people who have long sentences, 3:16:02.480 --> 3:16:05.880 and that's really about like the increased risk of just 3:16:06.000 --> 3:16:08.280 kind of like falling to the back burner as there's 3:16:08.480 --> 3:16:11.920 new like waves of struggle and you know, new emergencies 3:16:12.000 --> 3:16:14.880 and crises all the time. This is an opportunity to 3:16:15.080 --> 3:16:20.360 like really take a moment, to to really focus on 3:16:20.480 --> 3:16:25.200 that memory. And so I hope with June eleventh we 3:16:25.280 --> 3:16:29.000 can like kind of build bridges like generationally, you know, 3:16:29.160 --> 3:16:32.280 like I wasn't really around with Marius, you know, during 3:16:32.320 --> 3:16:34.960 the Green Scare and Marius got arrested, and it's something 3:16:35.000 --> 3:16:38.160 that I learned about and got involved in later. And 3:16:38.240 --> 3:16:41.040 I hope that, you know, with new people that we 3:16:41.160 --> 3:16:44.000 meet and new people who like we share projects with, 3:16:45.640 --> 3:16:50.000 we can tell them about our prisoners. And also you 3:16:50.080 --> 3:16:52.920 know where I happened to live. There's occasional I meet 3:16:52.959 --> 3:16:55.480 somebody who used to know Marius from you know, twenty 3:16:55.560 --> 3:16:58.360 years ago, and so kind of in both directions like 3:16:58.480 --> 3:17:02.000 into the past and into into the future, like, yeah, 3:17:02.200 --> 3:17:04.320 just trying to spread awareness about these people. 3:17:04.720 --> 3:17:08.480 Yeah, I think's yeah, I think it's it's so important 3:17:08.480 --> 3:17:12.960 to look at this as part of a long struggle. 3:17:13.160 --> 3:17:15.480 And that's you know what you and Moyer are both 3:17:15.560 --> 3:17:18.200 talking about in terms of it's it's building connections. It's 3:17:19.400 --> 3:17:23.160 it's kind of this like the sedimentary layer, uh, that 3:17:23.400 --> 3:17:28.880 that creates the actual foundation for for positive change. And 3:17:29.320 --> 3:17:32.280 you know, we have there's this kind of Hollywood brain 3:17:32.400 --> 3:17:35.320 thing I think we all have where where we get 3:17:35.560 --> 3:17:38.400 bent out of shape when when change doesn't kind of 3:17:38.560 --> 3:17:41.680 come and in the form of these kind of calamitous 3:17:42.560 --> 3:17:46.760 moments and and kind of culminations of struggles and stuff. 3:17:46.879 --> 3:17:51.440 But it's it's, you know, the the process of winning 3:17:51.680 --> 3:17:54.440 is the process of like part of it is the 3:17:54.520 --> 3:17:59.440 process of showing up for the people who are uh casualties, 3:17:59.520 --> 3:18:00.480 you know, who are being. 3:18:01.920 --> 3:18:02.640 Who are being. 3:18:04.480 --> 3:18:06.560 Who are suffering the most for it, And part of 3:18:06.600 --> 3:18:10.040 it is kind of the way in which that allows 3:18:10.080 --> 3:18:13.199 you to kind of build networks of solidarity that are 3:18:13.400 --> 3:18:16.119 the necessary foundation for continuing the struggle. 3:18:17.160 --> 3:18:20.280 Absolutely, I would say that in the years that I've 3:18:20.280 --> 3:18:23.360 been doing this work, one of the most important parts 3:18:23.400 --> 3:18:27.080 of it is being really consistent in showing up for 3:18:27.200 --> 3:18:33.800 the people who are being horrendously punished, because that's the 3:18:33.920 --> 3:18:37.480 only way that everybody understands that they will be taken 3:18:37.560 --> 3:18:42.880 care of. Right. But speaking of winning, I do have 3:18:44.160 --> 3:18:47.400 an update if you have a second on another June 3:18:47.400 --> 3:18:55.120 eleventh prisoner, Eric King. Yeah, from my beloved colleague Sandy Freeman, 3:18:55.160 --> 3:19:00.920 who represented him successfully recently and got a not guilty 3:19:01.080 --> 3:19:04.960 verdict for him after he was charged with assaulting a 3:19:05.080 --> 3:19:09.840 corrections officer, which is, I mean, if you know anything 3:19:09.879 --> 3:19:19.600 about federal indictments, a magnificent coup. So Eric currently has 3:19:19.879 --> 3:19:24.920 a Clan Act conspiracy in Bivens lawsuit pending against more 3:19:25.000 --> 3:19:29.840 than forty state defendants. His team is trying to achieve 3:19:29.920 --> 3:19:33.360 release from the ADX by a writ of habeas corpus. 3:19:34.040 --> 3:19:39.400 He's not currently getting access to communications, visits, or programming, 3:19:42.080 --> 3:19:49.640 but he is still strong and resilient, and his recent 3:19:49.760 --> 3:19:53.080 victories are an object lesson in the fact that we 3:19:53.200 --> 3:19:57.640 really can fight back and win. Please donate to his 3:19:57.720 --> 3:20:02.920 support fund and please uplift what is happening, because this 3:20:03.320 --> 3:20:07.840 is the future for anti fascists in the Bureau of Prisons. Nevertheless, 3:20:07.959 --> 3:20:12.680 we do continue to struggle and sometimes even to win, 3:20:12.959 --> 3:20:17.480 and I think our stories of triumph are not frequently 3:20:17.640 --> 3:20:19.840 enough told, and so one thing that we could do 3:20:19.920 --> 3:20:23.200 this June eleventh is try to gather all of those 3:20:23.280 --> 3:20:26.879 stories and make sure that those stories do get told. 3:20:27.440 --> 3:20:29.600 I think it's really important, like you said, to see 3:20:29.800 --> 3:20:31.720 these little victories and like not to see it as 3:20:32.640 --> 3:20:35.160 distinct from a broader struggle, Like if we want to 3:20:35.200 --> 3:20:37.520 do anarchism and build ways of taking care of each 3:20:37.520 --> 3:20:40.119 other outside of the state, then we need to take 3:20:40.200 --> 3:20:43.040 care of people who are victimized by the state, And 3:20:43.400 --> 3:20:45.840 like this is part of doing that, we're proving we 3:20:45.920 --> 3:20:49.120 can do it by doing it right. And like Robert said, 3:20:49.120 --> 3:20:51.800 like we're not going to storm the Winter Palace necessarily. Yeah, 3:20:52.720 --> 3:20:55.120 we can build up our in different ways, and this 3:20:55.280 --> 3:20:58.120 is a way of doing that. I'm thinking of like 3:20:58.520 --> 3:21:02.760 more international like cases. I know, for instance that where 3:21:02.800 --> 3:21:05.480 I come from, the British government fucking loves to put 3:21:05.800 --> 3:21:08.160 people who volunteered to fight for the YPG in prison 3:21:08.680 --> 3:21:11.200 or their parents if they send them money for food, 3:21:11.800 --> 3:21:15.520 which yes, great country, But I know that like all 3:21:15.560 --> 3:21:18.240 over the world in Spain and Catalonia where I've lived, 3:21:18.280 --> 3:21:20.480 like this is a thing too. So are there any 3:21:20.520 --> 3:21:22.960 other like international cases that you want to sort of 3:21:23.040 --> 3:21:23.720 draw attention to? 3:21:25.920 --> 3:21:30.200 Currently right now, Alfredo Caspito in Italy is has been 3:21:30.280 --> 3:21:34.480 on hunger strike since October against the particularly isolating and 3:21:34.560 --> 3:21:39.760 particularly repressive forty one, the prison what he calls a 3:21:39.879 --> 3:21:43.720 non life in there so a prison that was primarily 3:21:43.840 --> 3:21:47.000 used against Masia bosses. But you know, in the classic 3:21:47.080 --> 3:21:55.160 state misinterpreting anarchism has considered Alfredo a leader and particularly 3:21:56.040 --> 3:22:00.640 and so locked him away without access to almost any 3:22:00.760 --> 3:22:04.200 means of communication, and uh, and so he's he's had 3:22:04.200 --> 3:22:06.640 a lot of health problems as a result of this. 3:22:06.840 --> 3:22:09.960 You know, he was originally locked in for shooting a 3:22:10.080 --> 3:22:13.440 nuclear executive in the knee, uh, after some particular couss 3:22:13.440 --> 3:22:20.199 remarks from him following the Fukushima disaster. And that nuclear 3:22:20.920 --> 3:22:26.080 company has ties with like the you know, the larger 3:22:26.120 --> 3:22:32.800 war machine, the manufacturing of of weapons for war and uh, 3:22:33.240 --> 3:22:35.440 you know he's he's caught other charges while being in 3:22:35.480 --> 3:22:39.560 prison for previously alleged activities, including just being an anarchist 3:22:39.680 --> 3:22:43.240 essentially kind of what you talked about, the straight criminalizing 3:22:43.680 --> 3:22:48.640 political sensibilities. You know, Italy has been doing that. Chile 3:22:48.720 --> 3:22:54.519 has been doing that previously against people like Monica Caballero 3:22:54.720 --> 3:22:58.680 and Francisco Solar, who have been in and out of 3:22:58.720 --> 3:23:01.640 prison for years now in a curly facing more charges 3:23:01.760 --> 3:23:09.120 for allegedly sending bombs to police training facilities and such 3:23:10.040 --> 3:23:14.920 down in Chile and in your own England. Toby shown 3:23:15.040 --> 3:23:20.320 is someone who got out recently after being receiving terrorists 3:23:21.080 --> 3:23:25.600 charges for allegedly being involved in the anarchist website called 3:23:25.640 --> 3:23:31.199 three two five and financing terrorism through like accepting donations 3:23:31.320 --> 3:23:33.960 for their work and things like that. But he did 3:23:34.000 --> 3:23:36.000 not get convicted of that he usually got convicted of 3:23:36.520 --> 3:23:40.040 some minor drug charges and so he's been released to 3:23:40.280 --> 3:23:43.640 kind of a halfway house now, but they continue to 3:23:44.800 --> 3:23:48.960 try to mess with his terms of release because of 3:23:49.080 --> 3:23:53.359 his politics, because he's an anarchist and unrepentant, they continue 3:23:53.400 --> 3:23:54.400 to try to mess with him. 3:23:54.640 --> 3:23:55.080 Essentially. 3:23:55.959 --> 3:23:59.600 On the website j eleven dot org, there's a page 3:23:59.760 --> 3:24:02.680 where information about a lot of prisoners, both in the 3:24:02.840 --> 3:24:06.320 US and internationally. You know a little bit about them. 3:24:06.920 --> 3:24:09.360 Most of them has their address. If there's a support 3:24:09.440 --> 3:24:11.360 site with more information that's linked to it as well. 3:24:11.959 --> 3:24:14.960 Okay, that's a good paid place foreople to look. Anything 3:24:15.040 --> 3:24:18.720 else you guys wanted to get to to discuss issues 3:24:19.440 --> 3:24:22.120 for incosce rated anarchists people, I guess other ways to 3:24:22.120 --> 3:24:23.320 support incost rate to people. 3:24:24.320 --> 3:24:27.040 Yes, I would like to remind your listeners that all 3:24:27.120 --> 3:24:31.920 prosecutions are political, and that people who are locked away 3:24:32.360 --> 3:24:38.240 in you know, the cages that are the federal facilities 3:24:38.440 --> 3:24:41.240 and the state and local and county facilities are all 3:24:42.240 --> 3:24:45.920 dealing with the same kinds of isolation and deprivations, and 3:24:46.879 --> 3:24:51.960 a lot of them have even less support than some 3:24:52.120 --> 3:24:54.359 of our long term anarchist political prisoners. 3:24:55.280 --> 3:24:57.600 And so you know, I. 3:24:58.120 --> 3:25:01.800 Understand this is a program about June eleventh, and of 3:25:01.920 --> 3:25:04.600 course I want to uplift June eleventh, But I would 3:25:04.640 --> 3:25:08.080 also like to suggest that to whatever extent you can 3:25:08.120 --> 3:25:14.080 get involved in just prisoner support. I think that more 3:25:14.360 --> 3:25:17.640 support for more prisoners is always a good thing. 3:25:18.480 --> 3:25:23.039 Yeah, be in the streets in whatever, by whatever means. 3:25:23.520 --> 3:25:28.200 Fighting the society that makes prison and necessity is the 3:25:28.320 --> 3:25:30.720 longer game, right, Yeah. 3:25:31.080 --> 3:25:33.960 You know, related to what Ma was saying, I wanted 3:25:34.040 --> 3:25:39.200 to mention another long termanicist prisoner, Michael Kimball, who is 3:25:39.320 --> 3:25:45.039 in Alabama, and just thinking about like how supporting him 3:25:45.160 --> 3:25:47.920 has resonated to like so many other people in prison 3:25:48.360 --> 3:25:51.600 in Alabama, Like the way that he has been able 3:25:52.800 --> 3:25:54.560 through the support of you know, some of his friends 3:25:54.600 --> 3:25:57.360 on the outside, then support like so many other queer 3:25:57.440 --> 3:26:01.200 people that he's with in Alabama and been able to 3:26:01.280 --> 3:26:05.320 like collectively organize and like share radical history, Like you know, 3:26:05.440 --> 3:26:07.280 they have a have a role in it too, and 3:26:07.800 --> 3:26:11.160 our support for them can like resonate far beyond just 3:26:11.240 --> 3:26:11.960 an individual. 3:26:12.760 --> 3:26:12.960 Yeah. 3:26:12.959 --> 3:26:14.000 I think that's a great point. 3:26:14.640 --> 3:26:17.640 Yeah, And other things to mention, we are we have 3:26:17.760 --> 3:26:21.039 a fundraising goal for Marius this year twenty five hundred dollars. 3:26:22.440 --> 3:26:24.640 We're trying to get some bookstores on board to you know, 3:26:24.760 --> 3:26:27.360 have some June eleven stickers donate a little bit of money, 3:26:28.240 --> 3:26:31.080 so go to your local bookstore and potshop, red Space, 3:26:31.240 --> 3:26:31.800 et cetera. 3:26:32.360 --> 3:26:35.800 Nice. Is there any any other like resources you guys 3:26:35.840 --> 3:26:38.879 wanted to plug? Social media is or anything that people 3:26:38.920 --> 3:26:39.760 can follow to find out. 3:26:40.800 --> 3:26:46.240 You can follow Marius's support on Twitter at at support Marius. 3:26:47.280 --> 3:26:50.280 There's also an instagram that I think is at support 3:26:50.360 --> 3:26:54.359 Marius Mason. I would also like to plug the concept 3:26:54.600 --> 3:26:57.039 of not talking to cops. 3:26:58.760 --> 3:27:02.760 Smart June eleven. Also some social media presence. There's really 3:27:02.879 --> 3:27:08.160 only regularly active on the master don account and it's 3:27:08.240 --> 3:27:10.680 just at June one to one at June eleven. 3:27:11.280 --> 3:27:14.280 Yeah, that was fantastic. Thank you very much. Guys, really 3:27:14.280 --> 3:27:33.680 appreciate your time. Hello podcast fans, it's just me today, 3:27:33.840 --> 3:27:37.080 It's just James and we're doing another episode about the border. 3:27:37.400 --> 3:27:41.320 I'm joined today by Emmett and David from the Borderlands 3:27:41.360 --> 3:27:43.720 Relief Collective and we're going to talk a little bit 3:27:43.879 --> 3:27:48.400 about people doing mutual aid on the border, the situation 3:27:48.600 --> 3:27:50.640 on the border, and for those of you who live 3:27:50.879 --> 3:27:53.480 a long way away from it, and a sort of 3:27:53.600 --> 3:27:57.960 pretty shitty thing that border patrol did to some supplies 3:27:57.959 --> 3:28:00.560 which were left out on the border earlier this month. 3:28:01.480 --> 3:28:03.840 So yeah, David, if you'd like to sort of introduce 3:28:03.879 --> 3:28:05.720 yourselves and expend a little bit about the roles you play, 3:28:05.760 --> 3:28:07.199 that would be great either. 3:28:07.360 --> 3:28:09.520 I'm happy to be here. My name is Emmett. 3:28:09.680 --> 3:28:14.400 I am splitting my time between being a geochemist at 3:28:14.440 --> 3:28:19.360 Descriptions Station Oceanography in a PhD student and trying to 3:28:19.400 --> 3:28:22.240 reconcile what it means to be living in this border 3:28:22.320 --> 3:28:24.560 lands and being a part of a community that is 3:28:26.040 --> 3:28:29.440 partially criminalized depending on who you are, where you come from, 3:28:29.879 --> 3:28:32.520 and also what it means for you to seek safety 3:28:32.560 --> 3:28:35.360 and freedom in your life. So I work in several 3:28:35.560 --> 3:28:42.600 organizing spaces trying to shut down different detention centers as 3:28:42.680 --> 3:28:47.520 well as supporting folks just make ends meet in San 3:28:47.560 --> 3:28:55.040 Diego and also supporting people keeping their lives and staying 3:28:55.040 --> 3:29:00.120 alive in this extreme border border lands that we on. 3:29:01.200 --> 3:29:05.760 Hey, my name is David. My job I work as 3:29:06.120 --> 3:29:09.879 a surgeon. I've been living in San Diego for about 3:29:10.280 --> 3:29:18.440 ten years and I've been doing humanitarian volunteer work in 3:29:18.560 --> 3:29:23.800 the Borderlands, which we call doing water drops for something 3:29:24.000 --> 3:29:32.400 like six years, got started with Border Angels and also 3:29:32.560 --> 3:29:39.879 did volunteer work with Order Kindness highly recommend that organization, 3:29:41.280 --> 3:29:47.320 and more recently have been doing water drops in a 3:29:47.400 --> 3:29:54.400 mountainous area between San Diego and TJ with friends and 3:29:54.520 --> 3:29:59.040 we just recently found a name for our group and 3:29:59.640 --> 3:30:02.840 it's Orderlands Relief Collective. 3:30:04.840 --> 3:30:05.080 Great. 3:30:05.240 --> 3:30:08.640 Yeah, And I think maybe I think if people think 3:30:08.640 --> 3:30:11.280 of San Diego, they think of like the zoo and 3:30:11.480 --> 3:30:15.880 maybe SeaWorld and the beach, you know, that kind of shit. 3:30:15.920 --> 3:30:18.560 So like, can you explain what it's like. I've spent 3:30:18.600 --> 3:30:20.520 a lot of time in the area where you guys 3:30:20.560 --> 3:30:23.360 do water drops. Can you explain what it's like and 3:30:23.520 --> 3:30:26.480 why it's such a difficult area to pass through for 3:30:26.560 --> 3:30:28.160 people who are trying to move north. 3:30:29.120 --> 3:30:33.000 Well, yeah, San Diego. As you said, people think of 3:30:33.040 --> 3:30:36.880 the beach. But actually I think someone told me that 3:30:37.080 --> 3:30:42.600 San Diego County has some of the most diverse kind 3:30:42.640 --> 3:30:47.520 of ecosystems of any county in the so called USA. 3:30:48.120 --> 3:30:51.920 We have high mountains where it snows when it gets 3:30:52.000 --> 3:30:57.680 called out. We have low deserts where routinely exceeds one 3:30:57.760 --> 3:31:01.160 hundred degrees fahrenheit in the summertime, I mean one hundred 3:31:01.160 --> 3:31:06.520 and twenty degrees fahrenheit in the summertime. And as far 3:31:06.640 --> 3:31:15.560 as the geography of migration, it really goes back to 3:31:16.840 --> 3:31:20.840 you know, it's a direct consequence of federal border policy. 3:31:21.520 --> 3:31:25.960 I think many people will be familiar with the term 3:31:26.440 --> 3:31:32.680 prevention through deterrence, which is sometimes elaborated as prevention of 3:31:32.840 --> 3:31:38.760 migration through environmental deterrence, and the whole concept is going 3:31:38.879 --> 3:31:45.760 way back to Clinton administration. The areas of the border 3:31:46.120 --> 3:31:51.720 near cities like San Diego were increasingly militarized with high 3:31:51.800 --> 3:31:58.279 border fence, intense patrol by armed officers, and increasingly recently 3:31:58.400 --> 3:32:05.440 electronic surveys, with the idea of relying on the extremely 3:32:05.640 --> 3:32:10.280 harsh terrain of the deserts and mountains to form a 3:32:10.600 --> 3:32:15.680 kind of a natural But they quickly found out within 3:32:15.840 --> 3:32:17.920 within you know, basically the first year or so of 3:32:18.080 --> 3:32:23.879 that federal policy that numbers of people crossing the border 3:32:24.200 --> 3:32:32.120 did not decrease. However, deaths skyrocketed. And that's something we understood, 3:32:33.040 --> 3:32:36.520 you know, people in Washington, d C. Understood many many 3:32:36.640 --> 3:32:40.640 years ago. But the policy persists. So the bottom line 3:32:40.760 --> 3:32:45.160 is people who are crossing the border from Mexico to 3:32:45.320 --> 3:32:51.760 the USA often resort to crossing in the most remote 3:32:52.200 --> 3:32:56.640 and dangerous areas of the border. So the area that 3:32:56.720 --> 3:33:02.000 we're going to be talking about, this mountainous region between 3:33:02.120 --> 3:33:07.360 San Diego and Tijuana. Literally folks are going up and 3:33:07.640 --> 3:33:12.160 over the tallest mountain in the area, literally up and 3:33:12.320 --> 3:33:19.800 over the mountain, extremely arduous walk. When we do these 3:33:19.920 --> 3:33:24.000 water drops, we're well rested. We hike all day and 3:33:24.520 --> 3:33:29.800 we come home exhausted, and we look at our Gaya 3:33:29.920 --> 3:33:34.360 apps and find that we've only hiked a very small 3:33:34.440 --> 3:33:38.279 portion of the actual total journey, and we're always humbled 3:33:39.080 --> 3:33:43.200 by just the resilience and determination of people who do 3:33:43.320 --> 3:33:44.000 this crossing. 3:33:44.879 --> 3:33:48.400 Yeah, another thing I think people don't realize is that 3:33:48.800 --> 3:33:53.800 the amount of physical just difficulty that people have to 3:33:53.920 --> 3:33:56.800 enjoy coming here is immense. And of course, the reason 3:33:56.879 --> 3:33:58.880 that people are willing to take those risk is because 3:33:59.240 --> 3:34:01.320 it's not like they come from a place of safety, 3:34:01.520 --> 3:34:04.800 right and it's not it's not that, you know, the 3:34:04.840 --> 3:34:07.520 reason they're willing to take risks is because it's a risk. 3:34:08.080 --> 3:34:10.400 Being where they were is a risk. I think a 3:34:10.480 --> 3:34:12.440 lot of people will maybe have become more engaged with 3:34:12.520 --> 3:34:17.400 border policy during the Trump heira certainly like the legacy 3:34:17.480 --> 3:34:21.120 media narrative focused on the border very briefly, Like maybe 3:34:21.120 --> 3:34:23.160 it peaked around the midterms in twenty eighteen, I think, 3:34:23.360 --> 3:34:27.280 and then people have lost a lot of interest since then. 3:34:27.959 --> 3:34:30.320 So for those of us who live on the border, 3:34:30.480 --> 3:34:33.160 it's remarkable how little has changed. I think maybe it's 3:34:33.240 --> 3:34:36.160 not particularly remarkable because I don't think we're really expected to, 3:34:36.400 --> 3:34:41.840 but like, can you explain what if anything has changed 3:34:41.920 --> 3:34:46.000 since twenty twenty one and how things have sort of 3:34:46.200 --> 3:34:47.440 remained the same in many ways? 3:34:50.800 --> 3:34:53.840 Yeah, I think it's a really good question, and it 3:34:53.920 --> 3:34:54.879 brings up a lot of. 3:34:55.000 --> 3:35:02.120 The political nature or kind of skewed ideaity based conversations that. 3:35:02.200 --> 3:35:03.560 Exist in migration. 3:35:05.440 --> 3:35:08.160 And obviously there's a lot of rhetoric that is quite 3:35:08.560 --> 3:35:10.240 hyperbolic around. 3:35:11.400 --> 3:35:14.560 The so called morality of people who are. 3:35:16.360 --> 3:35:21.360 Migrants in general, and then kind of categorizing certain people 3:35:22.040 --> 3:35:26.840 as worthy or not worthy of entrance into the so 3:35:27.000 --> 3:35:31.720 called nation, and kind of furthermore, what does it mean 3:35:31.879 --> 3:35:34.280 for people to believe any of those narratives and then 3:35:34.320 --> 3:35:37.680 support them at a federal political level, And as you're saying, 3:35:38.520 --> 3:35:42.480 during Trump era, there was a lot of conversation in 3:35:42.600 --> 3:35:47.160 response to very very hateful rhetoric from Trump and administration 3:35:48.800 --> 3:35:53.680 targeted at certain people, but not from a deep place 3:35:54.000 --> 3:35:57.440 of really understanding or characterizing the conversation in general, or 3:35:57.560 --> 3:36:00.480 speaking by the fact that in San Diego or in 3:36:00.560 --> 3:36:04.279 California at large, more than half of the farm workers 3:36:04.440 --> 3:36:08.560 who kind of create this city that we are or 3:36:08.800 --> 3:36:12.600 the state that we are, and support the very backbone 3:36:12.720 --> 3:36:14.760 of the fact that we're all still having our hearts 3:36:14.800 --> 3:36:18.720 beat our migrants, and that our economy at large, as 3:36:18.760 --> 3:36:22.280 well as just the fabric of our nation is based 3:36:22.320 --> 3:36:26.160 on migrants in immigration. So for us to pick and 3:36:26.240 --> 3:36:28.680 choose what that looks like is not only missing the 3:36:28.720 --> 3:36:31.320 majority of the point, but is using as a talking piece, 3:36:31.520 --> 3:36:35.040 is really as a talking piece for certain identities to 3:36:35.160 --> 3:36:39.119 feel vindicated to spend money and support certain for profit 3:36:39.240 --> 3:36:43.600 corporations like for example, cour Civic, one of the largest 3:36:43.640 --> 3:36:46.839 prison corporations prison corporations. 3:36:46.400 --> 3:36:47.199 In the country. 3:36:47.640 --> 3:36:51.360 I've got one point nine billion dollars the previous year 3:36:52.040 --> 3:36:54.640 from the federal government, and therefore, like you think about 3:36:54.640 --> 3:36:59.680 the connection between these enterprises and stories about immigration are 3:36:59.720 --> 3:37:03.440 quite linked. So I don't have all the statistics in 3:37:03.480 --> 3:37:07.400 front of me about how the specific number of crossings 3:37:07.400 --> 3:37:10.520 has changed or the population has changed. 3:37:10.640 --> 3:37:14.440 But on the whole, nothing has really changed as far 3:37:14.520 --> 3:37:16.000 as the need goes. 3:37:16.120 --> 3:37:18.640 So, thinking about four years ago, what were the specific 3:37:18.680 --> 3:37:22.080 crises that were occurring that were causing people to seek 3:37:22.160 --> 3:37:23.280 seek safety United States? 3:37:24.480 --> 3:37:27.760 Maybe some specific positions of change and others have arisen. 3:37:28.680 --> 3:37:31.400 And as more and more people are come to United 3:37:31.440 --> 3:37:37.000 States fleeing from climate related disasters as well as ongoing stability, 3:37:37.920 --> 3:37:41.680 it's not as if the US has engaged in any 3:37:41.800 --> 3:37:46.640 real project to support people to begin with or understand 3:37:46.640 --> 3:37:51.520 the underlying causes. So from that standpoint, nothing meaningfully has 3:37:51.600 --> 3:37:56.000 happened from either administration to really understand or create policies 3:37:56.560 --> 3:38:01.000 that would support anyone seeking safety or from making decisions 3:38:01.040 --> 3:38:05.200 that are quote unquote aligned with US best interests. It's 3:38:05.280 --> 3:38:07.800 never been a part of the conversation. It's more to 3:38:08.360 --> 3:38:13.560 basically capitalize off of people in their suffering, whether wuther 3:38:13.600 --> 3:38:17.880 that be to the you know, to be a storyline 3:38:17.920 --> 3:38:21.640 that US is is helping people, or is a savior 3:38:21.920 --> 3:38:26.400 of others, or is trying to crack down on armed 3:38:26.440 --> 3:38:30.920 bandits or or criminals who are cross crossing this borderland. 3:38:31.720 --> 3:38:35.000 I think it is worth like the cusific examples really 3:38:35.040 --> 3:38:37.480 interesting because Biden made a big thing of like talking 3:38:37.520 --> 3:38:42.160 about shutting down like quote unquote private prisons, but it's 3:38:42.240 --> 3:38:46.160 still very much like funding the same things when they're 3:38:46.520 --> 3:38:48.600 not for people who are citizens of this country or. 3:38:49.040 --> 3:38:51.720 Yeah, and for those of those who aren't fully reversed 3:38:51.760 --> 3:38:56.439 in kind of the basic relationship between private prisons and immigration, 3:38:57.520 --> 3:39:01.879 there are is a relationship that between customs and Border 3:39:01.959 --> 3:39:10.720 protection and different prison corporations to basically put people who 3:39:10.959 --> 3:39:14.760 are apprehended who are not initially deported under Title forty 3:39:14.800 --> 3:39:21.480 two in detention while their cases are ongoing and investigated 3:39:22.560 --> 3:39:28.320 or asylum or a refugee status. And so these prisons 3:39:29.160 --> 3:39:33.160 make a profit and can basically demand a certain. 3:39:32.959 --> 3:39:35.119 Money amount of money from the government. 3:39:34.879 --> 3:39:39.640 Per person who is within one of their facilities, and 3:39:39.720 --> 3:39:43.160 there's also a minimum that they will continually get money 3:39:43.200 --> 3:39:45.400 from the government regardless of whether the beds are filled, 3:39:45.640 --> 3:39:48.360 but they have an incentive to keep beds filled. So 3:39:48.480 --> 3:39:52.600 there is an economic relationship between these corporations and the 3:39:52.879 --> 3:39:56.520 government to basically put more people in detention. So that's 3:39:56.560 --> 3:40:00.880 a huge underpinning of this whole conversation is who is 3:40:00.920 --> 3:40:03.000 getting money and how does it kind of further the 3:40:03.040 --> 3:40:07.920 certain aims of corporations, but also agencies that basically get 3:40:08.240 --> 3:40:12.199 a larger amount of federal funding through apprehension of people. 3:40:12.879 --> 3:40:13.039 Right. 3:40:13.200 --> 3:40:15.680 Yeah, like Biden has funded DHS more than Trump did, 3:40:15.800 --> 3:40:19.400 and like DHS's budget does Department of homelown security, of 3:40:19.520 --> 3:40:23.320 which Customs and Border Protection is a part and border 3:40:23.360 --> 3:40:25.800 patrol is a part of Customs and Border protection. It's 3:40:25.840 --> 3:40:30.400 a giant pyramid of people putting people in prison, and 3:40:30.520 --> 3:40:33.440 it's also worth like reinforcing I think for people that 3:40:33.879 --> 3:40:36.080 these people have done nothing wrong at the point which 3:40:36.120 --> 3:40:39.640 they are incarcerated, right, Like they have a bayed or 3:40:39.760 --> 3:40:44.120 relevant laws and are in conditions which we've decided are 3:40:44.240 --> 3:40:47.879 not befitting prisoners in the United States, but are okay 3:40:47.959 --> 3:40:52.320 for these people. Not that anyone should be incarcerated, but yeah, 3:40:52.360 --> 3:40:55.680 there's still a two tier system. So can you explain 3:40:55.720 --> 3:40:59.720 a little bit about your efforts to do mutual aid 3:40:59.760 --> 3:41:01.680 and to like do a little bit of kindness on 3:41:01.760 --> 3:41:04.640 the border and make things a little bit better out 3:41:04.680 --> 3:41:06.160 there for people who are coming north. 3:41:08.480 --> 3:41:15.120 Yeah, what we do again just is in collaboration with 3:41:15.320 --> 3:41:19.320 other organizations that have been around a long time, a 3:41:19.400 --> 3:41:24.520 lot longer than we have Border Angels, Order Kindness in California, 3:41:25.320 --> 3:41:31.200 UH No more deaths in Arizona, many other organizations, and 3:41:31.280 --> 3:41:34.720 it really, you know, boils down to we don't want 3:41:34.879 --> 3:41:38.880 people to die on you know, the trails UH crossing 3:41:38.959 --> 3:41:47.000 through the borderlands, and that actually informs where we drop Unfortunately, 3:41:47.840 --> 3:41:51.440 you know, all of our our recent new routes that 3:41:51.560 --> 3:41:57.920 we supply there directly because we know that people have 3:41:58.160 --> 3:42:04.959 died UH in those locations or required rescue. We work 3:42:05.080 --> 3:42:10.760 in very close relationship with other volunteer organizations that focus 3:42:11.040 --> 3:42:14.960 on search and rescue and search and recovery, search and 3:42:15.080 --> 3:42:18.640 recovery meaning recovering human remains of people who have died. 3:42:19.240 --> 3:42:27.480 So there's a number of outstanding organizations that operate in California, Arizona, Texas. 3:42:28.200 --> 3:42:33.920 These include Eagles of the Desert, Armadillos, many other organizations. 3:42:34.080 --> 3:42:39.280 Most of these are actually made up of volunteers who 3:42:39.320 --> 3:42:45.000 are first generation immigrants, mostly from Mexico, and so when 3:42:45.120 --> 3:42:51.560 people die or require rescue, we do find out from 3:42:51.959 --> 3:42:57.320 our friends and comrades in these SAR organizations and we 3:42:57.560 --> 3:43:04.280 build water drop roots directly around that knowledge. So yeah, 3:43:04.320 --> 3:43:07.560 it really boils down to, yeah, we don't want more 3:43:07.640 --> 3:43:13.120 people to die making making this, uh, this journey. And 3:43:13.320 --> 3:43:15.840 so as far as what kind of supplies we leave, 3:43:16.000 --> 3:43:19.119 it's what we think may make a difference. We leave 3:43:19.160 --> 3:43:24.680 bottles of water, energy, drinks like electrolyte, gatorade and so on. 3:43:26.000 --> 3:43:29.200 Cans of food with pop tops, all kinds of cans 3:43:29.240 --> 3:43:34.280 of fruit, beans, you know, chili, you know, whatever we 3:43:34.360 --> 3:43:38.400 think people may need. Of course, we tailor it based 3:43:38.480 --> 3:43:41.240 on the time of year. In the mountains, in the 3:43:41.280 --> 3:43:45.200 winter gets freezing cold, lots and lots of rain, so 3:43:45.280 --> 3:43:50.200 we've been leaving waterproof ponchos, warm clothing. And the summer, 3:43:50.720 --> 3:43:53.520 of course, it gets scorching hot. In the desert. People 3:43:53.680 --> 3:43:58.480 die of hyperthermia. They literally cook to death. That's where 3:43:58.640 --> 3:44:04.480 electrolytes come in here and the sun hats, bandanas, baseball hats, 3:44:05.680 --> 3:44:11.160 first aid kits. We we leave kids full of medical supplies. Uh, 3:44:11.520 --> 3:44:16.080 and more recently, you know, just observing the kind of 3:44:16.959 --> 3:44:24.800 used items that we find on the trail. Uh, kids stuff, diapers, pacifiers, Uh, 3:44:25.640 --> 3:44:30.440 you know, we leave you know, tampons, you know that 3:44:30.600 --> 3:44:35.720 kind of stuff. Uh, containers of infant formula. So it's 3:44:35.760 --> 3:44:39.600 a it's a it's kind of an iterative process, just 3:44:39.760 --> 3:44:43.920 leaving what we think people need and yeah, that's that's 3:44:44.000 --> 3:44:44.520 kind of what we do. 3:44:45.040 --> 3:44:46.959 And just so folks are super clear, this is all 3:44:47.120 --> 3:44:50.320 like an initiative among you and your comrades, right, right, 3:44:50.360 --> 3:44:53.879 then you're not supported by any like government entity. That's 3:44:54.040 --> 3:44:56.480 the government entity is kind of doing quite the opposite 3:44:56.520 --> 3:44:57.080 of what you're doing. 3:44:57.760 --> 3:45:00.760 Yeah. Correct, We are all volunteers in the sense that 3:45:01.200 --> 3:45:06.200 nobody is paid. We don't have any formal affiliations with 3:45:06.400 --> 3:45:10.800 any other NGOs, much less governmental organizations. 3:45:11.360 --> 3:45:14.120 Right, So maybe people are wondering. They might have been 3:45:14.120 --> 3:45:16.600 familiar with the court case in Arizona, or they might 3:45:16.680 --> 3:45:20.880 not be, like if what you're doing is considered to 3:45:20.920 --> 3:45:24.840 be like legal humanitarian aid or not you comfortable talking 3:45:24.840 --> 3:45:25.160 about that. 3:45:25.840 --> 3:45:28.800 Yeah, So I think that's definitely a gray area that 3:45:28.879 --> 3:45:34.760 we find ourselves really occupying. And I think that's a 3:45:34.840 --> 3:45:39.200 bit of this kind of propaganda machine. Is what does 3:45:39.240 --> 3:45:43.440 it mean to engage with somebody who is seeking safety 3:45:43.480 --> 3:45:45.960 and fleeing for their lives. There's a certain place where 3:45:46.000 --> 3:45:49.760 that's how it to be a wonderful thing. If you're 3:45:50.520 --> 3:45:54.920 Catholic charities and are providing beds, And for example, I 3:45:55.000 --> 3:45:56.320 wanted to make that distinction. 3:45:56.080 --> 3:45:59.520 Between several kind of charity organizations who. 3:45:59.480 --> 3:46:03.000 Do receive federal money to be engaged in this conversation 3:46:03.520 --> 3:46:08.600 versus grass fruits, mutual aid networks, and communities who are 3:46:08.959 --> 3:46:12.840 doing this because it feels like it's part of their 3:46:12.879 --> 3:46:15.560 communities mission, their families mission, or it means it's part 3:46:15.600 --> 3:46:17.480 of them being true to themselves and true to what 3:46:17.600 --> 3:46:19.440 feels just in. 3:46:20.240 --> 3:46:21.640 The very confusing world. 3:46:21.760 --> 3:46:26.720 So what we're doing is very explicitly leaving humanitarian aids 3:46:27.040 --> 3:46:31.160 supplies that are potentially life saving in areas where we 3:46:31.280 --> 3:46:36.160 know people need them. We are not having any specific 3:46:36.560 --> 3:46:40.480 or hands on or person to person engagement with anybody. 3:46:41.040 --> 3:46:45.560 So they're in Arizona, Nomas Motes became part of a 3:46:45.600 --> 3:46:51.720 conversation about providing critical medical support, and that was a 3:46:51.760 --> 3:46:55.160 court case that really tested the limits of what it 3:46:55.280 --> 3:46:58.560 means to be in this great area and what was 3:46:59.120 --> 3:47:02.960 really important and the nuances in that conversation were what 3:47:03.160 --> 3:47:05.760 constitutes aiding in a betting or so called aiding in 3:47:05.800 --> 3:47:10.720 a bedding of legal immigration, which is basically again a 3:47:10.879 --> 3:47:15.080 very large gray area between are you, are you enticing 3:47:15.160 --> 3:47:18.080 people to cross? Are you being paid as a smuggler 3:47:18.240 --> 3:47:21.520 to cross? Are you doing something which is encouraging people 3:47:21.600 --> 3:47:26.440 to cross? None of which was activity that was engaged 3:47:26.440 --> 3:47:31.000 with the most modes or us, but in their case 3:47:31.440 --> 3:47:35.640 specifically providing medical aid across the boundary, and they were 3:47:35.720 --> 3:47:39.320 raided their their their their camp and their impromptu field 3:47:39.840 --> 3:47:43.840 uh tents where they were providing life saving medical support 3:47:44.240 --> 3:47:45.000 where it was raided. 3:47:46.080 --> 3:47:49.360 And the kind of the finer points of that were that. 3:47:51.400 --> 3:47:56.160 The outset being that the First Amendment protects humans in 3:47:56.200 --> 3:48:01.560 their religious freedom to practice whatever that furthers their religious 3:48:02.160 --> 3:48:05.280 beliefs in a faith, and a very large point of 3:48:05.920 --> 3:48:10.600 their work was their affiliation and dedication to preserving human life, which, 3:48:10.720 --> 3:48:14.160 as we can imagine for many folks listening to this 3:48:14.560 --> 3:48:18.760 or in general, that is very core to their belief system. 3:48:19.920 --> 3:48:23.600 And so there are very clear protections in the First 3:48:23.640 --> 3:48:28.960 Amendment of preserving people's right to practice their religion. So 3:48:29.840 --> 3:48:32.560 that was a case that kind of established a lot 3:48:32.600 --> 3:48:36.240 of what we're working under is these basic protections to 3:48:36.280 --> 3:48:41.160 be humanitarian aid workers following basic belief systems. What we're 3:48:41.200 --> 3:48:47.880 doing specifically is leaving supplies, so leaving supplies. The most 3:48:48.200 --> 3:48:52.480 egregious thing you can basically say about that is that 3:48:52.520 --> 3:48:58.920 we're littering, or that we're abandoning property. And so again 3:48:59.080 --> 3:49:03.720 Nomas Martes, and in this, in this larger conversation, was 3:49:03.800 --> 3:49:07.720 established in the court that leaving humanitarian aid supplies that 3:49:07.840 --> 3:49:10.440 were with the intent of saving lives is not litter. 3:49:11.360 --> 3:49:13.360 So that was also a very big point. 3:49:13.200 --> 3:49:15.080 Which is saying, no, we are not just kind of 3:49:15.120 --> 3:49:17.360 going walking down the street and throwing out your bottle 3:49:17.400 --> 3:49:18.760 in the back of your truck. 3:49:19.320 --> 3:49:21.880 This is specifically with the intent of saving lives. 3:49:22.360 --> 3:49:25.520 And the third place is that we are abandoning something 3:49:25.880 --> 3:49:30.160 in this in this area that would be constituted abandoned property. 3:49:31.240 --> 3:49:32.120 And as we'll speak. 3:49:31.880 --> 3:49:37.240 About maybere in the future, our supplies are consumed quite rapidly, 3:49:38.000 --> 3:49:40.840 and there is a statute in this in this state 3:49:40.960 --> 3:49:43.480 of it is it abandoned property has to be it 3:49:43.560 --> 3:49:45.320 has to be left for more than ten days to 3:49:45.360 --> 3:49:48.880 be considered abandoned property. So even if we are leaving 3:49:49.000 --> 3:49:52.400 things in these regions, it is not considered abandoned property 3:49:52.920 --> 3:49:56.600 it's been less than ten days. So basically I guess 3:49:56.840 --> 3:49:59.720 just to say that nothing we're doing is illegal from 3:49:59.720 --> 3:50:04.120 any standpoint, and also the case in Arizona kind of 3:50:05.240 --> 3:50:11.080 helped make a distinguishing, make some distinctions between whether our 3:50:11.240 --> 3:50:15.880 activity is is also frowned upon in public land, which 3:50:16.000 --> 3:50:18.800 it is not, because it is constituting humanitarian aid in 3:50:18.800 --> 3:50:20.040 a place that is desperately needed. 3:50:20.400 --> 3:50:22.040 Right. And I think if folks go out to like 3:50:22.760 --> 3:50:24.520 I mean, most people aren't going out to the Valley 3:50:24.520 --> 3:50:25.960 of the Moon or what have you, but like, if 3:50:26.000 --> 3:50:27.960 you want to look for abandoned stuff there, it's not 3:50:28.120 --> 3:50:31.200 hard to find. And it's not you guys doing that 3:50:31.560 --> 3:50:36.880 like shooting barrels or whatever that Like someone was shooting 3:50:36.920 --> 3:50:39.560 a barrel last time I was out there. Let's talk 3:50:39.560 --> 3:50:41.920 about how quickly those supplies are consumed, because I think 3:50:42.040 --> 3:50:45.400 again that will be like news to some people, right, 3:50:45.640 --> 3:50:48.680 Like you guys are out there every week, and like 3:50:48.800 --> 3:50:51.160 how much stuff you're dropping and how quick does it go? 3:50:51.840 --> 3:50:54.360 Yeah, to tell you the truth, we're still we're still 3:50:54.560 --> 3:50:57.640 of finding out ourselves because every time we think we 3:50:57.840 --> 3:51:02.400 know the answer, we're surprised by how fast it's being consumed. 3:51:02.680 --> 3:51:06.120 The bottom line is it's being consumed as fast as 3:51:06.200 --> 3:51:10.120 we can leave this supply. So emmine and I and 3:51:10.240 --> 3:51:16.480 many other of the members of our organization, Borderlands Relief Collective, 3:51:16.680 --> 3:51:20.240 we also are active in border kindness and in the 3:51:20.360 --> 3:51:24.440 past with border Angels, and so we're used to a 3:51:24.520 --> 3:51:28.560 certain rhythm of doing a water drop, circling back usually 3:51:28.600 --> 3:51:32.160 a month later, and we're happy if maybe half of 3:51:32.240 --> 3:51:36.480 the supplies have been consumed, that's a good day. When 3:51:36.520 --> 3:51:40.840 we started doing water drops in this mountainous region, first 3:51:40.840 --> 3:51:43.800 of all, we were just blown away by the evidence 3:51:44.120 --> 3:51:48.360 of heavy foot travel. I mean, these are even though 3:51:48.560 --> 3:51:52.880 you'll never find a hiker, a recreational hiker on these trails, 3:51:53.080 --> 3:51:58.160 they look like established trails. They're worn in trails. And 3:51:58.360 --> 3:52:01.080 when we started doing these water drops, there's just a 3:52:01.280 --> 3:52:09.800 river of discarded water bottles, clothing, food wrappers, and just 3:52:10.280 --> 3:52:13.680 things that we have never seen before, that that amount 3:52:13.920 --> 3:52:18.800 of human activity, literally on the top of a mountain 3:52:19.040 --> 3:52:22.000 where you never would think why would someone cross over 3:52:22.080 --> 3:52:24.520 a top of a mountain to get from point eight 3:52:24.720 --> 3:52:27.520 to point B. So, like I said, we're still learning 3:52:27.800 --> 3:52:32.480 what the proper interval is. Some of these locations that 3:52:32.600 --> 3:52:36.720 we drop, we come back a week later and they're 3:52:36.800 --> 3:52:41.960 pretty much one hundred percent consumed. So yeah, we really 3:52:42.480 --> 3:52:44.720 it's become apparent. We have been having a lot of 3:52:44.800 --> 3:52:49.360 discussions that we're very eager in trying to expand our 3:52:49.440 --> 3:52:53.760 number of volunteers because the more we do this in 3:52:53.920 --> 3:53:00.560 this mountainous region, the more we learn how pressing need is. 3:53:01.320 --> 3:53:06.160 So we're having a hard time just supplying essentially one 3:53:06.880 --> 3:53:09.640 path that goes up and over the mountain, and we 3:53:09.840 --> 3:53:13.560 know that this is just one of many paths that 3:53:13.680 --> 3:53:18.880 are used by people in this region. So really we're 3:53:18.920 --> 3:53:23.520 finding one hundred percent consumption every week or two at 3:53:23.640 --> 3:53:25.440 most of our drop spots. 3:53:26.560 --> 3:53:28.720 Yeah, so if people did want to we could just 3:53:28.800 --> 3:53:30.280 get out in here. Now, if people did want to 3:53:30.320 --> 3:53:33.040 help you and they're in the region, would they be 3:53:33.080 --> 3:53:34.360 able to serve where they could reach out? 3:53:36.080 --> 3:53:38.520 Yeah? Sure. We just like I said, we just came 3:53:38.640 --> 3:53:44.160 up with our name after a fun communal decision making process, 3:53:44.480 --> 3:53:47.880 and we just a couple of days ago did our 3:53:47.960 --> 3:53:51.920 first post on social media. So if anybody's on Instagram, 3:53:52.840 --> 3:53:57.600 just search for Borderlands Relief Collective and click on you know, 3:53:57.800 --> 3:54:01.080 the email and send us a d get in touch. 3:54:01.640 --> 3:54:05.240 If you're anywhere near the San Diego we'd love to 3:54:05.480 --> 3:54:09.280 talk to you, and I definitely would like to expand 3:54:09.680 --> 3:54:10.840 the number of volunteers. 3:54:11.680 --> 3:54:13.720 So you spoke a little bit about like that, we 3:54:13.760 --> 3:54:16.280 spoke about this Arizona case right where people got raided. 3:54:17.720 --> 3:54:20.520 I know, you guys have also had some less than 3:54:20.680 --> 3:54:27.200 stellar interactions with CBP Border Patrol specifically, and as they 3:54:27.240 --> 3:54:29.080 get really mad if I call it customs of Border 3:54:29.080 --> 3:54:33.840 Patrol because it is custom border protection. So you guys 3:54:33.880 --> 3:54:36.920 had a thing I live it last month. Now in March, 3:54:37.960 --> 3:54:39.360 do you want to explain a little bit about what 3:54:39.760 --> 3:54:40.560 happened to the insitant? 3:54:40.640 --> 3:54:44.680 First of all, Yeah, So as part of our so 3:54:45.000 --> 3:54:47.080 I think, as we already talked about, we go out 3:54:47.080 --> 3:54:47.600 every weekend. 3:54:47.880 --> 3:54:51.400 And that's again we're all busy laves. 3:54:51.720 --> 3:54:56.440 Davia's literally a surgeon, and we're basically trying to find 3:54:56.440 --> 3:54:57.280 a time that we can. 3:54:57.480 --> 3:54:59.040 Get people together to go out there. 3:54:59.120 --> 3:55:01.880 So we picked the weekend and we have a you know, 3:55:02.040 --> 3:55:04.040 changing number of people who are able to be out 3:55:04.080 --> 3:55:08.160 there with us. So, as one of our normal water 3:55:08.320 --> 3:55:13.560 drop weekends, a route that starts basically at a road 3:55:14.320 --> 3:55:18.080 that that has been along the ridge of O Tai Mountain. 3:55:18.560 --> 3:55:21.240 We start hiking down on the south side towards towards 3:55:21.320 --> 3:55:27.440 the towards the border, and I've established multiple routes along 3:55:27.520 --> 3:55:32.320 that path, and this one particularly is so slow going. 3:55:33.000 --> 3:55:35.560 You only go a couple of miles and it takes. 3:55:35.400 --> 3:55:39.800 You most of your Saturday because of how steep it is, 3:55:40.600 --> 3:55:44.160 the how thick though the brush is, and also kind of, 3:55:44.640 --> 3:55:47.400 as they were saying earlier, even in the middle of 3:55:47.520 --> 3:55:53.080 day daytime, with hiking boots, it's really treacherous. And we've 3:55:53.640 --> 3:55:55.120 we spend a lot of time making sure that we're 3:55:55.160 --> 3:55:59.280 safe in the process of of going to ourselves. So 3:55:59.560 --> 3:56:02.480 as we we left our first drop and then a 3:56:02.560 --> 3:56:05.040 second and went down to our final drop and turned 3:56:05.080 --> 3:56:08.600 back and started going back up the mountain, and we 3:56:09.320 --> 3:56:12.640 came to our second drop site, and as we arrived 3:56:13.240 --> 3:56:17.360 we found something that was kind. 3:56:17.240 --> 3:56:20.720 Of really hard to process at first for us, which 3:56:20.880 --> 3:56:21.120 was that. 3:56:22.760 --> 3:56:26.920 Every single item that we had purposefully put inside of 3:56:26.960 --> 3:56:31.680 a crate and we had counted and we had a 3:56:31.800 --> 3:56:36.360 left as we do, was scattered and littered across the ground. 3:56:38.280 --> 3:56:42.720 We had left more than twenty liters of water, and 3:56:43.160 --> 3:56:48.000 every single bottle of water was opened and dumped out 3:56:48.280 --> 3:56:54.560 and thrown indiscriminately around this site. We had left again 3:56:54.760 --> 3:57:03.080 something like twenty hands of food beans, tuna, condensed milk, fruit, 3:57:03.480 --> 3:57:07.480 and every single can had been opened and had been 3:57:08.160 --> 3:57:12.720 its contents thrown around the area. We had left bags 3:57:12.760 --> 3:57:17.200 of socks and hats and those were covered in beans 3:57:17.360 --> 3:57:19.760 and fruit and again thrown into bushes. 3:57:20.200 --> 3:57:23.000 They can not be used. We had handwarmers. 3:57:24.200 --> 3:57:28.960 Because it's very cold and handwarmers are essential to kind 3:57:28.960 --> 3:57:33.720 of just keep mobility. And every single one was diligently opened, 3:57:33.840 --> 3:57:37.360 as if someone had really enjoyed taking time opening it 3:57:37.720 --> 3:57:41.120 and thrusting into the dirt. And that was something that 3:57:41.320 --> 3:57:47.120 was like so painful and just confusing, very demoralizing, as 3:57:47.160 --> 3:57:50.640 you can imagine after just hiking that far, but more 3:57:50.720 --> 3:57:53.800 so it's felt so deliberate and hurtful. 3:57:54.960 --> 3:57:58.240 And initially were of course wondering what had happened. We've 3:57:58.280 --> 3:57:58.880 done this for. 3:57:59.040 --> 3:58:02.440 Several years years and never had we seen something like 3:58:02.520 --> 3:58:08.240 this before. And it became very apparent that someone had 3:58:08.280 --> 3:58:12.440 deliberately destroyed our crate. Even the crate itself. This milk 3:58:12.480 --> 3:58:16.000 carton was smashed in half. The bottom of it was 3:58:16.760 --> 3:58:20.000 torn out, and that is something that's very hard to achieve. 3:58:20.280 --> 3:58:24.480 Milk cartons are not very light, thin plastic. This was 3:58:24.560 --> 3:58:28.760 someone had actively put a lot of force into smashing 3:58:28.840 --> 3:58:31.840 a milk cart so that nothing was left behind. 3:58:33.320 --> 3:58:34.600 We on the way down. 3:58:35.360 --> 3:58:37.480 One thing that I didn't say a second ago was 3:58:37.520 --> 3:58:39.920 that we had seen an agent on the trail, which 3:58:40.000 --> 3:58:42.320 was unique for us because normally they're just in their 3:58:42.400 --> 3:58:46.280 cars with binoculars looking from the road. So we had 3:58:46.600 --> 3:58:50.480 seen someone near the trail but lost track of them earlier, 3:58:50.520 --> 3:58:52.000 and we had kind of put it out of our minds. 3:58:52.440 --> 3:58:56.280 So after it happened, we had kind of put two 3:58:56.320 --> 3:59:00.640 together and were wondering if this agent had followed us 3:59:00.760 --> 3:59:03.760 down the trail to the site, and then while we 3:59:03.880 --> 3:59:06.200 had left, stayed behind and destroyed the goods. 3:59:06.480 --> 3:59:10.240 It seemed like the beans were still drying and the fruit. 3:59:10.160 --> 3:59:12.160 Was still drying in the sunlight, so it hadn't have 3:59:12.200 --> 3:59:15.320 been too too far from the time that we had 3:59:15.720 --> 3:59:19.560 dropped initially. And this is at a moment that there 3:59:19.680 --> 3:59:21.800 was five of us and trying to figure out what 3:59:21.960 --> 3:59:23.400 it meant for us to deal with this. 3:59:24.440 --> 3:59:25.480 Several two of us. 3:59:25.480 --> 3:59:29.120 Including myself, raised ahead to try to get interact with 3:59:30.000 --> 3:59:32.200 whoever has up the trail, knowing that they couldn't have 3:59:32.280 --> 3:59:36.200 been too far away, not with any specific plan other 3:59:36.320 --> 3:59:37.200 than just ask. 3:59:37.120 --> 3:59:40.920 Them what did they do and why did they do that? 3:59:41.600 --> 3:59:44.960 Just in the sense of outrage, that the sense of 3:59:45.520 --> 3:59:49.640 just like moral corruption that someone would destroy this in 3:59:49.720 --> 3:59:53.960 a time that the CBP as well as we know 3:59:54.120 --> 3:59:57.200 that people are losing their lives because of lack of 3:59:57.280 --> 3:59:59.280 access to these very goods that were destroyed. 4:00:00.120 --> 4:00:02.720 Yeah, so we race raced back as fast as we could. 4:00:02.720 --> 4:00:04.680 It was about a forty five minute hiked back up, 4:00:05.480 --> 4:00:07.440 and we were really breathless and almost as the kind 4:00:07.440 --> 4:00:09.280 of wind of feeling sick to our stomachs because we 4:00:09.800 --> 4:00:12.400 were both outraged and also hikes faster than we should have. 4:00:13.040 --> 4:00:14.960 And just as we'd gotten back to our cars, kind 4:00:15.000 --> 4:00:15.920 of giving up hope. 4:00:15.760 --> 4:00:18.640 That we'd interactt with them, we saw two agents in 4:00:18.720 --> 4:00:22.800 their cars kind of pull away, uh, and we flagged 4:00:22.840 --> 4:00:25.200 them down and got in front of them and kind 4:00:25.240 --> 4:00:26.920 of motion for them to come back so we could 4:00:26.920 --> 4:00:31.040 speak to them. And I'm not saying we're the most 4:00:31.160 --> 4:00:33.600 savvy people, but we basically ran up to them and said, 4:00:33.880 --> 4:00:38.000 did you destroy these are our supplies, to which they 4:00:38.120 --> 4:00:41.400 acknowledged that they did. And only afterwards were we able 4:00:41.440 --> 4:00:44.320 to get our wits together to start recording them. 4:00:44.520 --> 4:00:46.440 And as both here in the audio. 4:00:47.240 --> 4:00:49.200 They acknowledged the fact that they knew where our site was, 4:00:49.480 --> 4:00:52.840 and they acknowledged the fact that they regularly destroy goods, 4:00:54.320 --> 4:00:57.680 and for us, the entire interaction was just so sickening 4:00:58.520 --> 4:01:00.600 first of it. After a while there was five of 4:01:00.680 --> 4:01:05.080 them with their guns and they're large guns out as 4:01:05.160 --> 4:01:11.920 well as their basic intention to use intimidation, their sheer numbers, 4:01:12.040 --> 4:01:14.960 as well as this kind of perverse authority they have 4:01:15.520 --> 4:01:20.320 as the soul of agents in charge of this public land, 4:01:20.400 --> 4:01:23.280 this is wilderness and BLM land, which they have no 4:01:23.440 --> 4:01:28.400 authority over us, yet use this sense of just power 4:01:28.680 --> 4:01:32.760 and ability to cause harm to minimize anybody else being able. 4:01:32.600 --> 4:01:34.160 To advocate for themselves. 4:01:34.200 --> 4:01:37.040 So we tried to stop them from doing that, and 4:01:37.560 --> 4:01:39.880 it kept asking them did you destroy our water? 4:01:39.960 --> 4:01:41.240 And why did you do that? And is that within 4:01:41.280 --> 4:01:42.120 your job description? 4:01:42.400 --> 4:01:45.320 Because there was something very clear to them to us 4:01:45.720 --> 4:01:48.240 that they didn't even know what their legality was. They 4:01:48.360 --> 4:01:52.000 kept trying to deflect it the conversations saying, oh, migrants 4:01:52.000 --> 4:01:54.400 are leaving trash all the time, and referring to people 4:01:54.480 --> 4:01:58.000 as illegal aliens with this kind of larger Rhetorica is 4:01:58.040 --> 4:02:02.120 saying that like they're they're trashing the mountain side like 4:02:02.200 --> 4:02:05.040 it's it's their fault. And as we repeatedly asked them, 4:02:05.480 --> 4:02:09.240 did you destroy our water? And they repeatedly said, well 4:02:09.320 --> 4:02:11.960 have you seen have you seen what they do and 4:02:12.120 --> 4:02:15.600 then kind of also saying well, yeah, we we try 4:02:15.640 --> 4:02:17.160 to clean things up, we try to pick them up. 4:02:17.200 --> 4:02:19.560 But but but that specific site was too far, so 4:02:19.680 --> 4:02:21.600 we just left it. We just destroyed it and left it. 4:02:22.080 --> 4:02:25.680 Which as on the on the piggybacking on their conversation 4:02:25.840 --> 4:02:29.960 about this trash and that we're littering and they're accusing 4:02:30.080 --> 4:02:33.640 us of aiding and abetting illegal immigration, they basically have 4:02:33.800 --> 4:02:37.000 nothing left to say about what their actions meant and 4:02:37.240 --> 4:02:41.360 without their their purview, their mandate of their jobs, and 4:02:41.720 --> 4:02:44.680 it was an act you could tell they were uncomfortable 4:02:44.720 --> 4:02:47.240 with because they were not within their job description. And 4:02:47.800 --> 4:02:49.760 we asked for their supervisor. They said they're going to 4:02:49.840 --> 4:02:53.240 on the phone supervisor. The supervisor never materialized, and we 4:02:53.320 --> 4:02:55.760 can only assume that they had a conversation with somebody, 4:02:56.120 --> 4:02:59.880 uh in a superior saying back down, what you're doing 4:03:00.280 --> 4:03:05.280 is is not correct and don't engage further. And since 4:03:05.320 --> 4:03:09.520 then we've had a conversation with with their superiors and 4:03:09.640 --> 4:03:12.600 with with CVP offices to the effect of saying that 4:03:13.160 --> 4:03:15.640 this was not within their job description, and this they 4:03:15.680 --> 4:03:16.920 did not condone this activity. 4:03:17.360 --> 4:03:21.760 So kind of looking into that further, they were very. 4:03:21.720 --> 4:03:25.960 Much acting as individuals, but individuals within a culture of 4:03:26.200 --> 4:03:31.400 abuse and within a culture of of sabotaging humans access 4:03:31.680 --> 4:03:34.360 to life saving supplies. And that was nothing new to them, 4:03:34.640 --> 4:03:36.760 that they that they had nothing. They had never encountered 4:03:36.800 --> 4:03:38.880 somebody trying to oppose them for doing that. 4:03:58.720 --> 4:04:04.480 Mere water and all that was that yours, that water, 4:04:04.720 --> 4:04:05.400 it was at yours too. 4:04:06.480 --> 4:04:08.160 So it is your property exactly and. 4:04:08.240 --> 4:04:10.400 You and you slashed it. 4:04:10.640 --> 4:04:13.000 And I'm wondering why you're just that your property be high. 4:04:13.160 --> 4:04:14.680 You did not your prop by you were going on 4:04:14.760 --> 4:04:18.440 a hip while we were on a fad slash. 4:04:18.520 --> 4:04:20.120 So you guys. 4:04:21.560 --> 4:04:24.360 In your job description to slash water and open cans. 4:04:24.160 --> 4:04:27.080 And damn wood all over the profect plant and live 4:04:27.160 --> 4:04:27.920 in this area. 4:04:28.240 --> 4:04:29.400 To abandon property. 4:04:30.960 --> 4:04:33.400 And to your mind, it's a long hike. 4:04:33.440 --> 4:04:34.200 How I would I do that? 4:04:34.920 --> 4:04:35.120 Get? 4:04:35.160 --> 4:04:37.200 You know, I'm like serious, It's okay for you to 4:04:37.240 --> 4:04:40.000 recap you have converstion and. 4:04:40.040 --> 4:04:42.000 Patrol within twenty five miles of quarter. 4:04:42.080 --> 4:04:44.120 Had one hundred to do what and and look for 4:04:44.360 --> 4:04:46.080 pot probably. 4:04:46.080 --> 4:04:52.280 Bandon property, the property legal person and what do you 4:04:52.360 --> 4:04:54.360 do with it? What would you destroy it? 4:04:54.440 --> 4:04:55.920 We try to clean it up, because they. 4:04:56.160 --> 4:04:57.640 Know that that's cleaning it up. 4:04:58.280 --> 4:05:01.080 That's one of the things that not cleaning about it. 4:05:01.320 --> 4:05:03.720 And you know we're trying to clean it up. 4:05:03.840 --> 4:05:06.440 That was too far from us. We decided to just 4:05:06.560 --> 4:05:07.480 trash the whole area. 4:05:08.840 --> 4:05:13.400 Like when they're funded and equipped and transported and armed 4:05:13.520 --> 4:05:17.080 by the state, and like, it's not the same as individuals, 4:05:17.160 --> 4:05:19.080 just because we've seen that in Arizona, right, like people 4:05:19.120 --> 4:05:21.320 who are militias or what have you going out and 4:05:21.400 --> 4:05:24.880 sabotaging life saving supplies as well. But it's still a 4:05:24.920 --> 4:05:27.400 little different when you know, we have to pay taxes 4:05:27.440 --> 4:05:29.560 for them to go destroy water caches. 4:05:30.640 --> 4:05:33.920 And these are people who regularly, as we've seen on 4:05:34.000 --> 4:05:39.200 multiple occasions, use helicopters to try to flush people out 4:05:39.280 --> 4:05:43.840 of under a tree that they fly within thirty feet 4:05:44.120 --> 4:05:46.520 of the ground and use the force of the roadors 4:05:46.800 --> 4:05:50.360 to force people out and upper hillside to waiting cars. 4:05:50.520 --> 4:05:52.880 So their use of money and the use of force 4:05:53.080 --> 4:05:55.240 is definitely central to the tactics. 4:05:56.000 --> 4:05:58.560 Yeah, yeah, or he'se helicopters to fire to I guess 4:05:58.640 --> 4:06:02.360 into Mexico and it did a few years ago. But yeah, 4:06:02.440 --> 4:06:05.640 it's certainly, And that intimidation is like if I think 4:06:05.720 --> 4:06:07.840 people again who don't live here might not be familiar 4:06:07.880 --> 4:06:11.360 with it. Like I've been out in down by the 4:06:11.400 --> 4:06:14.760 border with KUMIAI people doing religious ceremony and had bortat 4:06:14.840 --> 4:06:18.840 guys dressed like you know, like Navy seals hanging out 4:06:18.880 --> 4:06:22.080 with air fifteens and plate carriers. Well, people like burn 4:06:22.160 --> 4:06:26.320 stage and prey. It's yeah, I mean the militarization if 4:06:26.400 --> 4:06:29.400 you somehow can't conceive the care of people dying in 4:06:29.440 --> 4:06:32.560 the desert, the militarization of the border still affects everyone 4:06:32.680 --> 4:06:37.000 here and it makes our lives left safe. There's a 4:06:37.080 --> 4:06:40.280 crime crime thinks logan that I always like to like 4:06:40.480 --> 4:06:43.160 use in these things, which is the border doesn't protect you, 4:06:43.280 --> 4:06:46.480 it controls you, which I think is kind of apt 4:06:46.560 --> 4:06:50.400 for this. So now that they've trashed your supplies, right 4:06:50.400 --> 4:06:53.560 and you found ot they weren't supposed to, I'm interested 4:06:53.720 --> 4:06:57.360 like how going forward, does that mean that you can't 4:06:57.440 --> 4:06:59.480 use that rout, you can't drop stuff there? Anymore because 4:06:59.480 --> 4:07:01.760 you're worried about happening again, or because you're worried about 4:07:01.800 --> 4:07:04.240 them hanging out there to intercept people who are using 4:07:04.320 --> 4:07:06.440 your like supply cash. 4:07:08.520 --> 4:07:13.880 On the contrary, we've learned from the examples of other 4:07:13.960 --> 4:07:18.040 people who have been doing this work. Em had already 4:07:18.440 --> 4:07:23.880 mentioned Nomas Mertes no more deaths in Arizona, Doctor Scott Warren. 4:07:24.160 --> 4:07:28.000 We've learned so much from their example where you know, 4:07:28.120 --> 4:07:30.640 they were hauled into federal court. 4:07:30.680 --> 4:07:32.480 And one uh. 4:07:32.880 --> 4:07:37.080 And so we've learned from from their examples of how 4:07:37.120 --> 4:07:40.480 to how to do this as well as within here 4:07:40.560 --> 4:07:45.640 in California. The history of border angels so back a 4:07:45.720 --> 4:07:50.440 few years ago, Border Patrol was slashing gallons of water 4:07:51.160 --> 4:07:55.600 in the deserts of eastern San Diego County as well 4:07:55.600 --> 4:07:59.880 as Imperial County. On one particular day, the border in 4:08:00.040 --> 4:08:05.160 those volunteers found about fifty gallons of water slashed in 4:08:05.240 --> 4:08:07.960 the most violent way, and they knew it was Border patrol. 4:08:08.560 --> 4:08:14.760 And so the way border angels responded was number one, 4:08:15.440 --> 4:08:20.760 to change their tactics to start dropping supplies a deeper 4:08:21.360 --> 4:08:26.760 in the back country where the border patrol agents. You know, 4:08:27.120 --> 4:08:31.040 it's rare to find a BP agent that's motivated enough 4:08:31.120 --> 4:08:33.720 to really hike, hike for too far away from their 4:08:33.760 --> 4:08:37.960 air conditioned vehicles in the summertime. So number one, they 4:08:38.000 --> 4:08:43.280 were going farther away from the roads and highways to 4:08:43.520 --> 4:08:47.200 the actual routes that people are are walking. Number Two, 4:08:48.160 --> 4:08:55.080 they punched back hard in public using social media. Back 4:08:55.160 --> 4:08:57.880 then it was Facebook. You know this is going to 4:08:57.920 --> 4:09:00.800 be you know, right when Instagram was getting but just 4:09:01.040 --> 4:09:04.000 you know, getting the word out. And Border Angels is 4:09:04.000 --> 4:09:06.680 an organization that's been around for decades. They have a 4:09:06.760 --> 4:09:12.480 big following, the word spread and just like many bullies, 4:09:13.120 --> 4:09:14.800 you know, they kind of back down if you get 4:09:14.840 --> 4:09:20.920 in their face sometimes. So that was our experience with 4:09:21.120 --> 4:09:24.440 this practice of Border patrols slashing gallons in the desert 4:09:24.600 --> 4:09:30.600 with Border Angels. So when this this crime occurred on 4:09:30.800 --> 4:09:34.000 March eighteenth in the mountains, we knew we could not 4:09:34.160 --> 4:09:37.000 back down. So we met back a few days later. 4:09:37.760 --> 4:09:42.880 That's when, as Emmett mentioned, we witnessed Border Patrol helicopter 4:09:43.480 --> 4:09:47.480 for about an hour flying about. You know, it seemed like, 4:09:47.800 --> 4:09:51.440 you know, ten fifteen feet off the ground, really really low, 4:09:51.720 --> 4:09:55.840 using the rotor wash to flush of flush human beings 4:09:55.880 --> 4:09:57.960 out of the brush as if they were hunting animals. 4:09:59.240 --> 4:10:01.800 And then we were back, you know, the next seven 4:10:01.880 --> 4:10:05.080 days later, after they destroyed the supplies, we went back 4:10:05.160 --> 4:10:08.400 with a good group number one to clean up this 4:10:09.360 --> 4:10:14.520 shameful mess these two border patrol goons left. We cleaned 4:10:14.560 --> 4:10:16.840 up all of all of that stuff, and we left 4:10:17.000 --> 4:10:21.120 probably what three times the amount of original supplies, and 4:10:21.440 --> 4:10:26.920 on our milk rates, we actually left laminated signs that 4:10:27.280 --> 4:10:31.880 addressed one by one all of the accusations that these 4:10:32.720 --> 4:10:39.160 border patrol agents tried to make against us. So the 4:10:39.320 --> 4:10:44.480 signs say, do not destroy, do not remove. This is 4:10:44.800 --> 4:10:48.240 not garbage, we are not littering, and this is not 4:10:48.440 --> 4:10:55.640 abandoned property. Is these are humanitarian aid supplies protected by 4:10:56.120 --> 4:11:00.720 federal case law, the nineteen ninety four Protection of Religious 4:11:00.880 --> 4:11:06.960 Freedom Act, and so on and so forth. So we 4:11:07.080 --> 4:11:10.440 put those signs just prominently on the milk rates, uh, 4:11:11.240 --> 4:11:13.280 you know, just to send a message that no, we're 4:11:13.320 --> 4:11:16.400 not going to back down. We are going to leave supplies. 4:11:17.040 --> 4:11:17.200 Uh. 4:11:17.760 --> 4:11:21.000 It is within our rights and it is in support 4:11:21.000 --> 4:11:23.400 of human rights to do this. So of course we 4:11:23.480 --> 4:11:25.840 have to be strategic about this. I mean, there is 4:11:26.000 --> 4:11:28.800 the danger, you know, we're always going back to the 4:11:28.880 --> 4:11:31.680 same place. You know, we're kind of you know, blowing 4:11:31.760 --> 4:11:33.640 up the spot as it were. You know, we're bringing 4:11:33.760 --> 4:11:38.200 heat to a route that's that's needed by people making 4:11:38.280 --> 4:11:41.440 a crossing, and so we are we are mindful of that, 4:11:41.680 --> 4:11:43.880 you know, we don't we We try to go to 4:11:44.000 --> 4:11:48.240 different places on different weekends, uh, and not try to 4:11:48.320 --> 4:11:51.680 bring too much attention to these paths. 4:11:52.960 --> 4:11:55.560 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I wonder 4:11:55.720 --> 4:11:58.560 like if people are I was just thinking for people 4:11:58.600 --> 4:12:00.160 to visualize the area if they are place, so I 4:12:00.200 --> 4:12:02.240 could look up on like googless so they could see 4:12:02.480 --> 4:12:06.440 like where this kind of stuff is happening. If you comfortable, 4:12:06.480 --> 4:12:09.520 you don't have to give like an exact location obviously. 4:12:09.720 --> 4:12:14.600 But yeah, actually, I mean, speaking of Google Earth, you 4:12:14.760 --> 4:12:17.720 mentioned a valley of the Moon. I mean, Google Earth 4:12:17.840 --> 4:12:21.520 is impressive enough. Anybody can just use Google Earth and 4:12:21.720 --> 4:12:24.240 zoom in all the way and just follow along the 4:12:24.360 --> 4:12:29.120 border and you'll find thousands of footpaths. So yeah, it 4:12:29.280 --> 4:12:35.360 doesn't take yeah, like much detective work to actually visually 4:12:35.720 --> 4:12:40.360 see these footpaths. But yeah, it's real steep terrain. As 4:12:40.440 --> 4:12:44.080 Emmett mentioned, the last couple times we've gone back to 4:12:44.240 --> 4:12:49.600 this spot, where the two agents destroyed the supplies. Emmett 4:12:49.600 --> 4:12:52.400 has actually brought a mountain climbing rope just to make 4:12:53.000 --> 4:12:56.320 certain sections easier where we're kind of repelling down this 4:12:56.520 --> 4:13:02.960 dry waterfall, so really really steep, very loose trails, very 4:13:03.080 --> 4:13:08.880 easy to break an ankle, and it just in that context, 4:13:09.000 --> 4:13:12.440 it really it really hits you. We see so many 4:13:14.160 --> 4:13:17.640 shoes and boots along the path and just have to 4:13:18.200 --> 4:13:22.520 kind of just pause and think, well, this person lost 4:13:22.840 --> 4:13:25.800 their shoe, if the if they're the sole of their 4:13:26.000 --> 4:13:32.280 boot melted off in their hours away from the nearest road, 4:13:32.440 --> 4:13:35.800 what does it mean? How did they complete the journey? 4:13:35.960 --> 4:13:40.400 Did they complete their journey? So yeah, a little bit 4:13:40.440 --> 4:13:42.680 hard to describe, but I guess any yeah, anybody who's 4:13:43.320 --> 4:13:47.600 I guess kind of familiar with with the southern California steep, 4:13:48.280 --> 4:13:52.280 steep mountains, loose terrain kind of get the picture. 4:13:52.800 --> 4:13:54.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, they can make out value the main 4:13:54.880 --> 4:13:59.000 there's plenty of pictures of the very intimidating boarder fence 4:13:59.040 --> 4:14:02.120 that they have there, like three foot I and rusty. 4:14:03.640 --> 4:14:06.640 Is there anything else that you guys wanted to address 4:14:06.680 --> 4:14:09.520 that you feel like maybe people don't the people should 4:14:09.600 --> 4:14:11.440 know about the board that they don't about the work 4:14:11.520 --> 4:14:13.640 you do that maybe is misunderstood. 4:14:16.560 --> 4:14:19.200 Yeah, I guess I want to maybe bring up. 4:14:21.360 --> 4:14:24.520 Some of what it I think is hard to convey 4:14:25.640 --> 4:14:33.800 to people who aren't there and I know aren't connected 4:14:34.000 --> 4:14:38.360 to a community who is suffering because of this, or 4:14:39.000 --> 4:14:44.000 who aren't maybe thinking along the lines of what it 4:14:44.120 --> 4:14:46.160 means to be a human in this space and actually 4:14:46.440 --> 4:14:52.000 be risking your life and coming up against helicopters and 4:14:53.920 --> 4:14:59.720 a federally backed militia who is actively seeking to harm you. 4:15:01.920 --> 4:15:05.400 None of us in our group are claiming any anything 4:15:05.880 --> 4:15:09.920 more than just witnessing what it means to be out there. 4:15:10.400 --> 4:15:14.720 But I guess what's been true for me and in 4:15:14.880 --> 4:15:17.840 kind of my conversations with my community as over the 4:15:17.920 --> 4:15:23.040 last couple of years, just trying to share this. There 4:15:23.120 --> 4:15:28.040 is so much pain that is being inflicted upon this landscape, 4:15:28.800 --> 4:15:31.000 and there is so much harm that is. 4:15:31.320 --> 4:15:33.920 Actively supported by our nation. 4:15:35.520 --> 4:15:39.160 While people are in some of the most intimate and 4:15:39.480 --> 4:15:40.680 painful moments of their lives. 4:15:43.040 --> 4:15:45.640 Leaving your home, whether it be in. 4:15:47.280 --> 4:15:49.800 Another continent where you need to take a flight a 4:15:49.920 --> 4:15:53.160 flight over to make this crossing, or whether it be 4:15:53.920 --> 4:15:57.840 hiking through Central America starting in South America for months 4:15:57.920 --> 4:16:01.680 before reaching this moment, or leaving your your your family, 4:16:01.920 --> 4:16:02.400 in your in. 4:16:02.400 --> 4:16:05.000 Your community closer to the to the to the border. 4:16:05.680 --> 4:16:10.800 This these are moments that anyone who is alive could 4:16:10.920 --> 4:16:15.160 feel the pain of and the misery of having to 4:16:15.600 --> 4:16:19.520 abandoned all that you know and put yourself at the 4:16:19.640 --> 4:16:26.320 mercy of of the desert. And CBPS overly aggressive and 4:16:26.840 --> 4:16:31.280 and and had harmful tactics. So beyond all of the 4:16:31.400 --> 4:16:35.320 cases and the politics, I just I I oftentimes, as 4:16:35.320 --> 4:16:38.280 we're walking, just try to put myself in the position 4:16:38.840 --> 4:16:42.440 of someone who is who is making these decisions. And 4:16:42.560 --> 4:16:47.200 as Dave was saying, we're coming across people's clothing, food, underwear, 4:16:47.480 --> 4:16:53.080 places they've slept, and the amount of the poignancy of 4:16:53.920 --> 4:16:58.360 human desire to be safe, to to come to a 4:16:58.400 --> 4:17:00.200 place where they feel like their lives can be. 4:17:02.120 --> 4:17:05.720 Protected, or that that choice. 4:17:05.560 --> 4:17:09.000 Is worthwhile is something that is so lost in the numbers, 4:17:09.160 --> 4:17:12.680 in the amount of people who die or what happens 4:17:12.720 --> 4:17:16.480 after it. And so for us, I think making it 4:17:16.640 --> 4:17:20.280 not about your political beliefs or the asylum process, but 4:17:20.440 --> 4:17:25.200 just the actual choices people are are half having to 4:17:25.320 --> 4:17:29.800 make very human decisions that is something that is kind 4:17:29.800 --> 4:17:34.680 of haunts us, and the feeling that all we can 4:17:35.000 --> 4:17:37.320 do is leave water in a place that it might 4:17:37.720 --> 4:17:42.120 make the difference between someone in that position surviving or not. 4:17:43.880 --> 4:17:47.560 And furthermore, just living in a community where you know, 4:17:47.680 --> 4:17:49.840 from the top of the mountain we can see downtown 4:17:49.920 --> 4:17:54.080 San Diego and all of the luxury of this military town, 4:17:54.720 --> 4:17:57.000 all of the universities and all of this opportunity that 4:17:57.120 --> 4:18:02.760 we enjoy, and just a couple miles away, the lack 4:18:02.960 --> 4:18:06.960 of access to just water. The feeling how similar humans 4:18:07.000 --> 4:18:09.920 are to each other in our basic needs and how 4:18:10.000 --> 4:18:14.680 that's being taken from people is really is really harmful, 4:18:14.720 --> 4:18:17.440 And particularly as you were saying, these are areas held 4:18:17.480 --> 4:18:22.200 sacred by the Kumii people and have been places of 4:18:22.280 --> 4:18:25.320 migration for at least ten thousand years. These are places 4:18:25.400 --> 4:18:28.640 that were difficult to travel and that people did for 4:18:28.760 --> 4:18:32.040 similar reasons to survive, to be safe, and there is 4:18:32.080 --> 4:18:37.600 a legacy of oyas of clay pots buried in the 4:18:37.720 --> 4:18:43.400 sand for travelers that has been ongoing for thousands of years. 4:18:43.600 --> 4:18:47.640 And for our current administration and government to create this 4:18:47.920 --> 4:18:51.960 wall in this place of so much pain is just 4:18:52.160 --> 4:18:57.560 testament to just the insanity of our desire to protect 4:18:57.840 --> 4:19:02.280 border against something else, actually the borders against something that 4:19:02.520 --> 4:19:05.680 we feel is harmful to us. Meanwhile, this migration is 4:19:05.720 --> 4:19:08.560 fundamentally how we survive and how we respond to these 4:19:08.640 --> 4:19:13.640 moments of change in humanity, and criminalizing that and closing 4:19:13.680 --> 4:19:15.320 hard with that is just barbaric. 4:19:15.960 --> 4:19:18.160 I'll let you collect your thoughts and you can come 4:19:18.240 --> 4:19:20.080 back and make that statement, because I think you do 4:19:20.200 --> 4:19:22.480 it very eloquently, But I want to jump on there 4:19:22.960 --> 4:19:27.000 and just kind of echo and elaborate on what you said. Yeah, 4:19:27.040 --> 4:19:31.320 we find lots and lots of physical items, but we 4:19:31.440 --> 4:19:35.000 also meet people on the trails, and that's a new thing. 4:19:35.120 --> 4:19:35.280 You know. 4:19:35.360 --> 4:19:38.080 I've been doing these water drops for some time now. 4:19:39.320 --> 4:19:42.080 But you know, when you say what has changed under Biden, 4:19:43.200 --> 4:19:47.200 not much. There's more people crossing the border than ever. 4:19:47.880 --> 4:19:51.440 There are more people dying than ever. As far as 4:19:51.600 --> 4:19:56.200 as a volunteer who spends most weekends out in the borderlands, 4:19:56.840 --> 4:20:00.560 the only thing I noticed is they stopped building Trump's 4:20:00.760 --> 4:20:04.000 thirty foot high fence and they started pouring all that 4:20:04.320 --> 4:20:08.240 money into electronic surveillance, where every single month we see 4:20:08.360 --> 4:20:12.640 more towers popping up all along the border with all 4:20:12.760 --> 4:20:18.400 kinds of very very fancy, military grade surveillance equipment and 4:20:18.480 --> 4:20:23.480 as well as aerial surveillance. Lots of airplanes, helicopters. I'm 4:20:23.520 --> 4:20:26.080 not sure if they're using drones, but we certainly there's 4:20:26.120 --> 4:20:30.240 a lot of aerial surveillance. But what we see as 4:20:30.280 --> 4:20:34.160 far as the human dimension is in the old days, 4:20:34.840 --> 4:20:38.880 you know, we see footprints, We see shoe covers, you know, 4:20:38.960 --> 4:20:41.360 which people wear on their feet to hide their footprints 4:20:41.400 --> 4:20:46.360 from border patrol. We see the empty water bottles and 4:20:46.520 --> 4:20:51.440 discarded clothing. But now we're encountering people pretty much every 4:20:51.680 --> 4:20:54.920 time we do a water drop because the number of 4:20:54.960 --> 4:20:59.280 people crossing is so high. People are crossing in the daytime, 4:20:59.600 --> 4:21:02.720 whereas in the past usually they would cross at night. 4:21:03.320 --> 4:21:06.240 So wouldn't you say, emmittt like pretty much it's it's 4:21:06.320 --> 4:21:09.320 pretty much every time we go out, at least one 4:21:09.400 --> 4:21:14.400 of our volunteers, if not the whole group, sees or 4:21:14.520 --> 4:21:21.920 even interacts with a migrant on the paths. And you know, 4:21:22.200 --> 4:21:26.080 and of course we respect, we respect their autonomy, their privacy. 4:21:26.160 --> 4:21:28.160 We don't engage with them if they don't want to 4:21:28.240 --> 4:21:33.240 engage with us. But the thing that I'll never forget 4:21:33.920 --> 4:21:37.240 is about a month ago, we were out in this 4:21:37.400 --> 4:21:42.080 exact same area, supplying the same path, and it was 4:21:42.160 --> 4:21:48.080 a rainy day, cold, we were wearing our gortex insulated clothing. 4:21:48.560 --> 4:21:50.960 We'd done a water drop. While we were doing the 4:21:51.000 --> 4:21:54.120 water drop, we can see on the next mountain peak 4:21:54.880 --> 4:22:00.480 Border Patrol helicopter landing to pick up somebody who required rescue. 4:22:00.640 --> 4:22:03.320 And this is a case that we had been getting 4:22:03.400 --> 4:22:07.320 updates all night with Armadillos, one of the search groups, 4:22:07.840 --> 4:22:14.480 and thankfully this person was found alive and Border Patrol 4:22:14.880 --> 4:22:20.560 was so called rescuing him another word for arresting him. 4:22:21.200 --> 4:22:26.120 And after we witnessed that, we hiked back to our vehicles, 4:22:26.720 --> 4:22:31.400 and just as we were getting to the trailhead, the 4:22:31.520 --> 4:22:35.760 exact same location where on March eighteenth, Emmett and other 4:22:35.880 --> 4:22:38.920 volunteers had this interaction with the two Border Patrol agents 4:22:39.120 --> 4:22:43.040 who destroyed the humanitarian aid supplies, the exact same parking spot. 4:22:44.240 --> 4:22:46.720 We pop out and start walking toward our vehicles and 4:22:46.800 --> 4:22:51.800 it starts snowing, and two individuals come out of the 4:22:51.880 --> 4:22:56.200 mist and approach us and start talking to us in 4:22:56.320 --> 4:23:02.280 Spanish and talking to the these two people, these two men, 4:23:02.880 --> 4:23:06.680 one one young, one middle aged in the course of 4:23:06.720 --> 4:23:10.520 the conversation. You know, sorry, I kind of choke up 4:23:10.560 --> 4:23:11.960 when I talk about this stuff. 4:23:12.600 --> 4:23:15.000 Yes it's okay, but yeah. 4:23:15.120 --> 4:23:18.880 So this is the younger of the two. I was 4:23:18.960 --> 4:23:23.560 sixteen years old and the older dude was his father. 4:23:24.840 --> 4:23:28.040 We encountered them as it was snowing, so of course, 4:23:28.160 --> 4:23:30.920 first thing we did is got them in our vehicles. 4:23:32.000 --> 4:23:36.440 One of our volunteers, avid hiker, had his backpacking stove 4:23:36.560 --> 4:23:40.600 with him and cooked up some tea and some you know, 4:23:40.800 --> 4:23:43.320 gave them food and you know, let them warm up. 4:23:43.440 --> 4:23:47.640 We gave them literally the you know Gorte's winter coats 4:23:47.720 --> 4:23:51.760 offer backs to warm up and once you know, the 4:23:51.880 --> 4:23:58.120 dad was shivering violently, really really showing signs of clinical hypothermia. 4:23:59.240 --> 4:24:02.800 And talking to the younger man, who was in better 4:24:02.880 --> 4:24:05.520 physical shape, he was explaining that the two of them 4:24:06.160 --> 4:24:11.280 were hiking through the mountains because his mother was already 4:24:11.520 --> 4:24:14.000 living in the USA. They were trying to reunite with 4:24:14.120 --> 4:24:19.960 her and they had been in this mountainous region for 4:24:20.080 --> 4:24:26.160 the past two days. And looking at them, they're wearing hoodies, 4:24:26.560 --> 4:24:31.960 you know, like you know, sweatshirts, sweatpants and sneakers in 4:24:32.120 --> 4:24:34.720 this and anybody who lives down here in southern California. 4:24:34.760 --> 4:24:38.760 You know, we've had a very unusual winter, lots and 4:24:38.880 --> 4:24:44.000 lots of rain, so it had been raining heavily over 4:24:44.080 --> 4:24:49.920 the past two days and nighttime temperatures in the thirties, 4:24:50.240 --> 4:24:53.120 and these two men had been out there for two 4:24:53.240 --> 4:24:58.120 days soaked to the bone, and that's why they approached us, 4:24:58.240 --> 4:25:01.720 because they were in trouble and were asking for help. 4:25:02.760 --> 4:25:07.240 So after they warmed up, we discussed the options. Of course, 4:25:07.360 --> 4:25:11.320 you know, we we we respect their autonomy. You know, 4:25:11.480 --> 4:25:14.760 they have the option to try to continue going on 4:25:14.920 --> 4:25:19.760 their way with with supplies or if they felt it 4:25:19.880 --> 4:25:24.320 was unsafe to do so we were ready to help them. 4:25:24.480 --> 4:25:27.240 The heartbreaking thing is, you know they did ask us 4:25:27.400 --> 4:25:32.400 could we let them ride in our vehicles off the mountain, 4:25:33.240 --> 4:25:35.840 and we had to explain that, you know, we're we're 4:25:35.960 --> 4:25:39.880 pretty much guaranteed to encounter Order patrol agents on that 4:25:40.120 --> 4:25:44.120 road and that really it's not something that we could 4:25:44.200 --> 4:25:47.240 do because you know that that that you know, we 4:25:47.520 --> 4:25:51.040 we could be arrested and charged, you know, for federal 4:25:51.120 --> 4:25:54.040 felony crimes. But we said, look, you know, if you 4:25:54.160 --> 4:25:57.880 really feel you can't continue, we will help you. Contact 4:25:58.280 --> 4:26:01.040 you know, call nine to one one that we explained 4:26:01.160 --> 4:26:03.480 that's that's one hundred percent going to result in border 4:26:03.560 --> 4:26:09.960 patrol coming because as folks may know, you know, you know, 4:26:10.080 --> 4:26:15.160 in the USA along the border, you know, emergency medical response, 4:26:15.320 --> 4:26:19.240 search and rescue is unfortunately considered in the domain of 4:26:19.320 --> 4:26:23.760 law enforcement. So if you are a US citizen, or 4:26:23.880 --> 4:26:27.600 if you are someone from another country that happened to 4:26:27.680 --> 4:26:30.800 come here and have a visa or just be considered 4:26:31.080 --> 4:26:33.360 the good type of foreigner, you know, you're going to 4:26:33.400 --> 4:26:38.560 have a very impressive response with sheriffs, Sheriff's Department, search 4:26:38.600 --> 4:26:43.320 and rescue, volunteer organizations. If there's any hint that you 4:26:43.480 --> 4:26:48.240 may be a so called undocumented person, you immediately get 4:26:48.360 --> 4:26:51.360 sent to border patrol and you have you know, boor 4:26:51.480 --> 4:26:55.600 Star respond the Border Patrols Search and Rescue group, which 4:26:55.680 --> 4:27:01.360 is a far cry from the civilian search and rescue folks. 4:27:01.400 --> 4:27:03.600 So we explain to them if we call nine one one, 4:27:04.040 --> 4:27:06.680 you're going to be apprehended, You're going to be arrested 4:27:06.760 --> 4:27:10.480 by border patrol. And after thinking about it and discussing, 4:27:10.560 --> 4:27:13.760 they said, yeah, we you know, we cannot continue where 4:27:14.240 --> 4:27:17.120 you know, this is too dangerous. So we did call 4:27:17.240 --> 4:27:22.400 nine one one, and border patrol did come and frisked 4:27:22.560 --> 4:27:27.720 them and cuff them and uh, yeah, yeah I did 4:27:27.840 --> 4:27:32.280 arrest them. And yeah, that's not not the only time 4:27:33.320 --> 4:27:38.120 too often we have witnessed human beings being arrested by 4:27:38.160 --> 4:27:38.840 border patrol. 4:27:40.400 --> 4:27:44.560 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think I think 4:27:44.560 --> 4:27:48.840 it's really important to give like put like faces and 4:27:48.960 --> 4:27:51.880 names to these things, rather than the border patrol will 4:27:51.920 --> 4:27:55.480 constantly talk about a million whatever encounters, right, they like 4:27:55.560 --> 4:27:57.680 to fucking inflate the numbers. It's often the same people, 4:27:57.800 --> 4:28:02.120 but it each one of those is a tragedy every 4:28:02.120 --> 4:28:05.520 time someone has to make a choice between risking their 4:28:05.600 --> 4:28:08.160 life in one place or risking their life coming to 4:28:08.240 --> 4:28:10.840 another place just so their kids can have a crack 4:28:10.880 --> 4:28:13.480 at growing up safely, or so they can be safe, 4:28:13.960 --> 4:28:16.800 so they can experience like one tenth of the things 4:28:16.840 --> 4:28:19.640 that we take for granted every day, Like, that's an 4:28:19.680 --> 4:28:23.720 incredible human tragedy. And yeah, they happen every single day, 4:28:23.760 --> 4:28:26.560 every hour of every day at our border because of 4:28:26.760 --> 4:28:30.880 the things that our government does there. And yeah, it's 4:28:30.920 --> 4:28:34.960 important to feel that stuff because I think that's it 4:28:35.040 --> 4:28:37.000 should provoke in all of us a very strong reaction 4:28:38.400 --> 4:28:41.360 it's pretty messed up that it's almost universal bipartisan agreement 4:28:41.400 --> 4:28:44.840 that it's fine and okay by people who have never 4:28:44.920 --> 4:28:46.200 been hearing and don't understand. 4:28:47.840 --> 4:28:50.520 One other thing I want to add and and emt 4:28:50.600 --> 4:28:53.200 you may have other things. One thing I wanted to 4:28:53.720 --> 4:28:58.680 really center is something we've referenced several times. Cumye you 4:28:58.760 --> 4:29:03.120 know this is this is Cumiate Land. These are the 4:29:03.200 --> 4:29:07.600 indigenous people who have lived here since the beginning of time. 4:29:09.120 --> 4:29:13.960 The archaeological record goes back ten thousand years, but we 4:29:14.120 --> 4:29:18.920 know people have been here since the beginning of human time. Really, 4:29:19.680 --> 4:29:24.440 and look at the map, the so called border cuts 4:29:24.480 --> 4:29:31.360 in half traditional Cuma territory. When we do these water 4:29:31.440 --> 4:29:34.760 drops out in the desert or in the mountains, you know, 4:29:35.120 --> 4:29:39.040 these these paths that that people are using to migrate 4:29:39.280 --> 4:29:45.560 are often or in many many cases traditional Cumi paths. 4:29:46.440 --> 4:29:50.560 And we see evidence of that every time we, you know, 4:29:50.640 --> 4:29:54.720 do a water drop, especially out out in the desert 4:29:54.840 --> 4:29:57.840 area where it's a rare water drop, that we will 4:29:57.920 --> 4:30:02.960 not find pottery sharp lying lying in the sand, or 4:30:03.080 --> 4:30:09.080 come across rock shelters, uh, some with pictographs and uh 4:30:09.240 --> 4:30:12.280 the you know, it's just uh, you know, very poignant 4:30:12.360 --> 4:30:18.480 juxtaposition of of Kumai cultural artifacts with modern day you know, 4:30:19.040 --> 4:30:23.280 shoe covers, discarded water bottles, and of course many people 4:30:23.320 --> 4:30:31.280 who do migrate are indigenous uh them themselves. So yeah, personally, 4:30:31.480 --> 4:30:35.800 you know, I view all of these border issues through 4:30:35.880 --> 4:30:42.000 the lens of history culture, with with the core truth 4:30:42.400 --> 4:30:46.800 that this is indigenous land, this is Cumi land, and 4:30:46.920 --> 4:30:51.920 it has always been and uh, the modern so called 4:30:52.000 --> 4:30:58.520 border is a very recent, uh political creation, you know that, 4:30:58.760 --> 4:31:02.400 you know, mid nineteeth century. You know, before that this 4:31:02.560 --> 4:31:07.440 was Mexico and now now where we call it the USA. 4:31:07.800 --> 4:31:12.400 But this is all recent and from my perspective, unless 4:31:12.480 --> 4:31:15.760 you are a Kumie, I really don't know how anybody 4:31:16.560 --> 4:31:19.560 could can really get on their high horse and really 4:31:20.160 --> 4:31:24.360 speak with any authority about who belongs here, who belongs here, 4:31:24.400 --> 4:31:28.360 who doesn't belong here, Because the rest of us, we 4:31:28.440 --> 4:31:33.080 are all guests on Kumie ied land. That includes every 4:31:33.120 --> 4:31:37.000 single border patrol agent. And that's that's something I always 4:31:37.120 --> 4:31:37.760 like to remember. 4:31:38.400 --> 4:31:41.600 Yeah. Yeah, the border is very much like colonialism in action, 4:31:41.800 --> 4:31:45.200 and it see even we're going to have some Cumi folks, 4:31:45.240 --> 4:31:46.960 hopefully in the next couple of weeks to talk about 4:31:47.000 --> 4:31:49.960 the desecration of Kumii Burial site by the border wall, 4:31:50.040 --> 4:31:53.080 which is an ongoing thing, Like I haven't stopped when 4:31:53.160 --> 4:31:55.320 the just I can't tell stories about it like I 4:31:55.360 --> 4:31:58.200 could in twenty twenty, because you know, Orange Man Bad 4:31:58.320 --> 4:32:02.160 isn't a thing anymore. But yeah, they're all across the border, right, 4:32:02.240 --> 4:32:06.040 not just here that the Yaki, the all across the 4:32:06.120 --> 4:32:08.560 border is native. The whole of the circle the United 4:32:08.600 --> 4:32:12.120 States is Native land, and it's not Indigenous folks out 4:32:12.160 --> 4:32:15.480 there trying to kill people in the desert. Is there 4:32:15.520 --> 4:32:17.440 anything that you wanted to add? 4:32:19.040 --> 4:32:20.560 Yeah, I just want to say this. 4:32:20.680 --> 4:32:23.840 Well, I don't know we're able forever, so we'll start 4:32:24.120 --> 4:32:28.320 rambling a second. But I guess I really want to say, 4:32:28.440 --> 4:32:31.680 and this is coming from a very skewed white males perspective, 4:32:31.760 --> 4:32:35.040 but I just feel like so much of these power 4:32:35.080 --> 4:32:38.320 structures that we're engaged with, and us as a nasan 4:32:38.560 --> 4:32:43.440 trying to find our identity, it's so hypocritical, particularly in 4:32:43.520 --> 4:32:48.000 this moment where the climate and social instability is at 4:32:48.040 --> 4:32:50.840 its height. I mean in my lifetime and I think 4:32:50.880 --> 4:32:52.320 in many of our lifetimes, we see this is a 4:32:52.360 --> 4:32:57.320 really precarious moment. It just feels so so hypocritical to 4:32:58.800 --> 4:33:03.080 police people's sovereign tees to find safety and to be 4:33:03.240 --> 4:33:06.120 in safety. You know, we we have all of these 4:33:06.160 --> 4:33:11.120 ideals in our country around respecting each other's freedoms, and 4:33:11.240 --> 4:33:14.600 also as we are importing and exporting so many goods 4:33:14.800 --> 4:33:19.280 and also so much culture and so fundamentally intertwined with 4:33:20.360 --> 4:33:24.240 the lives of people from all over the world. For 4:33:24.440 --> 4:33:27.000 us to say what is wrong and what is right 4:33:27.040 --> 4:33:29.080 in this moment, and for us to have this this 4:33:29.240 --> 4:33:35.720 moral authority to to put people in prison just for 4:33:36.160 --> 4:33:39.400 for for seeking safety for many years, and of course 4:33:39.440 --> 4:33:41.600 I have many people I know and live with who 4:33:41.640 --> 4:33:44.280 have been in in who we're in attention for for 4:33:44.440 --> 4:33:49.800 several years, for seeking that the amount of just how 4:33:49.880 --> 4:33:54.440 twisted it is that we are comfortable spending our lives 4:33:54.919 --> 4:34:00.160 as Americans never considering or never really critically engaging. 4:34:00.680 --> 4:34:02.040 With this active. 4:34:04.200 --> 4:34:10.040 Pursuit, these actions to to limit people's ability to survive. 4:34:10.840 --> 4:34:13.720 It feels like it really needs to be centered in 4:34:13.800 --> 4:34:17.280 this conversation. And again this is coming from my skewed perspective, 4:34:17.400 --> 4:34:22.040 but I just I really want to make the point clear. 4:34:22.160 --> 4:34:26.919 This is not about this is not about these these 4:34:27.000 --> 4:34:30.960 lofty ideals of what a country could be or who 4:34:31.040 --> 4:34:33.440 and who is not justified or useful. 4:34:33.480 --> 4:34:40.880 In our country, we make these arbitrary assessments of what's 4:34:41.080 --> 4:34:44.559 justified or what's legal and not legal, and very often 4:34:44.680 --> 4:34:48.200 those are just continuing the legacy of exploitation of black 4:34:48.240 --> 4:34:52.559 and brown people, the exploitation of landscapes, the expectation of labor, 4:34:53.080 --> 4:34:58.680 the exploitation of people whose voices are not heard, and politically, 4:34:58.840 --> 4:35:04.719 economically and continuing a conversation of an O time Masage center, 4:35:05.800 --> 4:35:09.440 the people who are attained are are are cleaning their 4:35:09.480 --> 4:35:12.600 own cells, and they're their their their labor is actually 4:35:12.600 --> 4:35:15.200 being exploited as well. You can't distinguish the fact that 4:35:15.280 --> 4:35:17.640 there is the history of policing in our country, in 4:35:17.680 --> 4:35:21.120 the history of prisons is specifically a project to continue 4:35:21.360 --> 4:35:27.640 white supremacy. And you can see particularly the differential policing 4:35:27.800 --> 4:35:34.120 of immigration currently and the differential way that certain people 4:35:34.160 --> 4:35:37.000 from certain countries are or are not valid UH to 4:35:37.720 --> 4:35:39.880 UH to enter this country and and at. 4:35:39.759 --> 4:35:40.720 The very least. 4:35:42.000 --> 4:35:45.800 Be treated with respect and dignity in their process. And 4:35:45.880 --> 4:35:51.480 that's what we see CBP every single day, violating people's 4:35:51.640 --> 4:35:54.760 basic access to human dignity and acts to life, which 4:35:54.759 --> 4:35:59.360 are protected by all nations in writing and very often 4:35:59.680 --> 4:36:00.520 not in practice. 4:36:01.480 --> 4:36:03.399 Yeah yeah, and as well said like it's a very 4:36:03.440 --> 4:36:06.600 basic human thing. It doesn't need to be like shrouded 4:36:06.680 --> 4:36:10.480 in constitutional law. And like you also said, the capital 4:36:10.560 --> 4:36:14.880 flows very freely across across the border, but people aren't 4:36:14.919 --> 4:36:19.360 allowed to and yeah, it's pretty messed up. Guys. Where 4:36:19.400 --> 4:36:21.400 can people if they want to support, if they want 4:36:21.440 --> 4:36:23.760 to just send a kind word? Where can people find 4:36:23.840 --> 4:36:25.480 you on the internet? 4:36:27.520 --> 4:36:30.919 Another best way probably is on Instagram. We have an 4:36:30.960 --> 4:36:37.600 account Borderlands Relief Collective reach out to us and I 4:36:37.759 --> 4:36:42.880 do want to give a shout out to our sister organizations, 4:36:43.440 --> 4:36:49.520 border Kindness. Their water Drop program, led by Jacqueline and James, 4:36:49.840 --> 4:36:55.320 has been doing tremendous work for years. Border Angels, which 4:36:55.400 --> 4:36:59.640 is kind of the parent organization of water Drop volunteer 4:36:59.720 --> 4:37:05.880 group in California, are our comrades who do search and 4:37:06.000 --> 4:37:10.840 rescue as well as recovery of those who have died, 4:37:11.480 --> 4:37:18.440 including Armadillos and Aggi las Egos of the Desert. Very 4:37:18.600 --> 4:37:22.399 very proud to be in this community of people who 4:37:22.480 --> 4:37:24.960 are trying to help people in the borderlands. 4:37:25.800 --> 4:37:28.560 Yeah, yeah, Thank you very much, guys, it's pretty great. 4:37:31.640 --> 4:37:34.760 Hey. We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 4:37:34.880 --> 4:37:36.760 from now until the heat death of the universe. 4:37:37.360 --> 4:37:39.680 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 4:37:39.960 --> 4:37:42.600 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:37:42.640 --> 4:37:44.840 cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 4:37:44.919 --> 4:37:48.280 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 4:37:48.720 --> 4:37:50.840 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 4:37:50.919 --> 4:37:54.919 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.