WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Who Finked on the Franks 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.360 Thinking Sideways is not supported by an inscrutable figure who 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.600 smells slightly of garlic. Instead, it's supported by the generous 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.760 donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:17.760 slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:28.200 I don't under you never know stories of things we 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:34.720 simply don't know the answer too. Hey there, welcome again 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.599 to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined by 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:43.440 my incredibly good looking co host Steve and devon guys say, Hi, Hi, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:49.360 So anyway you guys, Yeah, do you want to do 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:54.240 that again? No? I like it because I'm incredibly attractive 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.480 exactly all right, So anyway, folks, we're going to talk 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.760 about a mystery that surrounds and Frank, who you probably 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.240 have heard of, but for a few of you haven't heard. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.240 And Frank was a teenage Jewish girl who spent more 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.399 than two years hiding in some rooms behind the business 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.320 in Amsterdam, along with their family and four other people. 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.200 Is that ragman a bells uh? And then one day 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.640 in August ninety four, German police rated the building and 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.800 took them away, and of course, says you all know, 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.040 they met a grim fate yeah, Auschwitz and Bergen Belson 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.200 and all that stuff. But it appears there and then 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.440 that somebody ratted them out. So our mystery is is 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:39.560 who thinked on the Franks? Yeah? Yeah, well this has 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.479 actually been heavily investigated. There was an investigation in nine 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:49.480 nineteen sixty three, in nineteen eighty six, two thousand three investigation. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.000 Oh yeah, I have books have been written, you know, 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.160 suspects put forward. First of all, before we start talking 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.120 about our mystery, I want to take a minute to 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.760 thank our listener Maggie, who said, as did this story 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.360 way way back when, like December last year. Yeah, so 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.600 sorry for the long way, Maggie, but you know, here 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.240 we are. Yeah, well we're here. We finally arrived. I'd 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.400 also like to thank our listeners. Shanna hopefully hippernuts that 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.400 correctly Shanna. Uh. Janna speaks Dutch and she helped me 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.440 out with the pronunciation. Some of the names involved ironic 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.160 that you don't know how to say. Her name actually 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.080 spelled Channa, but she actually she actually spelled it out 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.040 fanatically for men. So Shanna unless it's Shanna, but it 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.000 might be Shanna, so Shanna Shanna. Yeah, let me know 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:38.760 if I succeeded. I'm almost certainly going to mangle these 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.760 word these names anyway, but at least no, I won't 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:47.280 mangle them quite as bad as I would have. Yeah, fantastically. Yeah. Okay, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.320 back to Anne Frank. Um, I'll just give you a 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.280 brief overview of her story. And this was actually helpful 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.239 for me. I know, most school aged children, at least 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.800 in America presumably most other places read Diary of a 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.800 Young Girl by Anne Frank. I did not. I was 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.360 never assigned it, so I had not actually ever really read, 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.160 you know, in depth. You kind of just vaguely understand 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.639 that Anne Frank is a person who existed and happened, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.040 and she wrote some stuff about those bad things, and 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.160 also also some stuff that people think is really offensive 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.680 and pornographic. But I don't know. That's all I ever knew. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.880 So this is really help No, this was I same thing. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.160 I I had a complete and total incorrect perception of 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.880 the space that these people lived in, and and so 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.320 reading it and then getting to see some of this stuff, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.240 it really it makes this the story makes more sense. 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.240 I also didn't realize there was it was two years. Yeah, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.240 I thought, I don't know why I just kind of 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.960 assumed it was a couple of months. They were there 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.880 for two years and a month. Yeah. Actually the Austrian 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.680 police officer who finally rated the place and who and 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.440 then arrested them and took them away, couldn't believe it. 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.880 That's what Yeah, he said. Yeah, Otto Frank said, he 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.280 is the policeman. The policeman just couldn't believe that they 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.680 had been there that long. Yeah. But anyway, so let's 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.440 talk about the story. I was talking about the story. Uh. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.960 And Frank was born in nine in Frankfurt, Germany. So 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.440 yes she was German, not not Dutch. But she was 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.320 born to Ottawa and Edith Frank. She also had an 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.240 older sister named Margot, about three years older than her. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.880 And in nineteen thirty three a couple of things happened 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.400 that kind of prompted the family to move to Amsterdam. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.159 One is that Otto got an offer to help start 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.600 a company there and to the National Socialist German Workers 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.240 Party came to power. It was along you know, I 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:45.359 was reading about this just today, the whole convoluted process 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.720 of Hitler getting appointed chancellor and then consolidating power, all 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.040 the manipulations scheming that went on and it's way too 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.599 complicated to go over. But he he did a masterful 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.839 job of pretty much taking over the entire German government. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.640 And it took a little Oh yeah, it took a 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.479 lot of scheming and it took and it took time 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.040 and years. Yeah, it took. Yeah, it took a while. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.080 But finally he was in charge of everything and that 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:15.960 turned out well yeah, not really yeah yeah yeah. So 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.839 uh so Otto, Frankie and his wife saw the writing 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.920 on the wall and decided it might be time to 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.839 beat Fete to Amsterdam. Smart choice. Yeah. So Otto worked 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.600 in Amsterdam at a Pecto works in a building at 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:34.719 two sixty Print, Amsterdam. Uh In night, he founded a 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.000 second company called Pecticon, which was housed in the same building. 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.680 And he was a bit of an entrepreneur. Yeah yeah, 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.760 well both companies are his. And it was something to 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.920 do with gelatine. Yeah, pecton. Pecton is a is a 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.320 derived from fruit and it's kind of jello in a sense. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.400 It's really interesting. I never really what you used to 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.640 make jams and jelly. Yeah, that's it, thank you, which 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.640 I understand would be high. It was highly important, but 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.880 I never really thought about the fact that it was 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.400 derived that way. So it's really interesting. You had to 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.680 know what he was kind very intelligent guy to be 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.560 able to manage that. Yea, And that seems like it 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.440 would be a high commodity at that time as well 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.479 of canning and preserving happening at that point, refrigeration was 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.159 not so good well as you kind of you know, 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.520 if you're going to be living in the back of 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:26.640 a house for two years, you know, yeah, two years 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.320 in a month half and that. So things were going 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.920 pretty well for the for the Franks. But in nineteen forty, unfortunately, 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.320 the Germans invaded the Netherlands and immediately, of course began 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.000 persecuting Dutch Jews. Uh Anna Margot were forced to change 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.320 schools because there were new rules mandating segregations, so that 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.600 meant they could only go to a Jewish school as 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.640 long as the Jewish school existed. It does It seems 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.920 like it was a much slower process than I also thought, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.880 you know, I just kind of assumed the Nazis come 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.440 to Amsterdam and then all of the Jews get carted away. Yeah, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.440 one day, the next. Yeah, it was a much slower 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:08.440 process of slowly segregating and then slowly carting away. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.960 the carting away didn't didn't start right away, and it 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.040 was like, yeah, I don't think they'd really ramped up 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:17.560 the whole Holocaust to industrial proportions yet. Yeah. Yeah, that 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.320 took a little time. So the girls had to go 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.640 to a new school. They had to add to change schools. 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.120 Jewish own businesses were being confiscated, so in y one, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.760 Auto Frank liquidated his companies and transferred all of his 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.480 assets to young young Geese. I hope I pronounced that correctly, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.600 shan up. Let me know. Um Geese was the husband 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.360 of Neep Geese, who was Auto Frank's secretary, and also 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.160 they were all friends too. In July two, Margot was 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.480 ordered to report for relocation to a work camp. Remember 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.880 Margot was was older than the Yeah, uh so the Franks. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.800 The Franks had been planning already to go into hiding, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.440 but they decided to move up the date a little 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.240 bit because of this. And on July six, who they 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.280 left their apartment with many, many layers of clothes on, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.080 which must have been great on July Day. Yeah, you 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.360 hope they left first thing in the morning. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.000 in the evening or something. But they were tons of 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:12.760 layers of clothes because they didn't want to be seen 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.840 carrying luggage. Yeah, they left behind their cat, which kind 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.880 of bothers me. Oh. I heard she that Anne gave 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.240 the cat to their neighbor. Yeah, and her marbles. Yeah. 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.640 She was very, very concerned about her marble. She didn't 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.600 want them to fall into the wrong hands. Yeah, and 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.520 so so that made me feel better when I heard 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.400 that the cat was okay in the marble. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.680 in the marbles too. Uh. They walked to Auto's business 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.120 where his two companies are, and and it was several 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.760 kilometers but they had to walk because Jews weren't allowed 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.840 to take public transportation. Cool. I such a weird rule, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.160 but okay, yeah, I know. Well it's very similar to 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.400 segregation that happened in America, and it's still a weird 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.040 rule to me on that front. Yeah, okay, that's weird whatever. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:58.640 I don't know why, but okay, yeah, I know. Back 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.560 to the business to building is one of those really tall, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.680 skinny Amsterdam buildings. I'm sure everybody's seen pictures of its 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.960 um like four stories tall. Yeah, exactly. It's it was 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.680 actually a building that fronted on the street in the canal, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.080 and then behind it there was a second building called 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.920 the annex, and they were connected together. The ground level 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.480 was basically unfinished warehouse space for the business. Yeah yeah, 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.280 extending underneath the back building too. Yeah, and so the 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.760 ground level was basically unfinished. The upper levels of the 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.240 street side building were used as offices, and then there 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.560 was a connecting doorway to the rear building on the 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.800 second level, which and this this part of this space 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.760 is known as the annex. So second from the second 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.520 floor up to the attic that was the annex and 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.240 had previously been used as a laboratory for product development, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.640 but during the war there was not much product development 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.800 going on, so Otto Frank found another use for it. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:54.960 They moved into that space and then they put a 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.520 bookcase across the doorway to conceal it. And that's how 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.600 they kept hidden for months, literally the spy movie door. Yeah. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.640 And there was like a bathroom and stuff in there, right, Yeah, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.199 there was, thank thank god, although they couldn't flush the 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.240 toilet during the day because there were people working down 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:19.920 below in the warehouse. Yeah yeah, well yeah, at least yeah, yeah, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.200 you just learned to time your stuff, I guess, yeah, probably, Yeah, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.760 so they had to be really quiet for those two 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.160 years and one month. Yeah, And there are pictures of 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.559 this online, right, Yeah, there's a there's on the Wikipedia page. 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.839 There's a really nice there's a picture of this from 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.200 the and Frank Museum, And somebody built a model of 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.680 the buildings and everything, and and there's a picture I 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:43.360 was kind of a cutaway model. And then all these 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.080 spaces are labeled and stuff, so you can get a 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.800 really great idea of the space that they were living. Yeah, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.120 which I think that it was. It was helpful to 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.080 me to be able to see it. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.240 Actually I was surprised because I had Again, because I 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.199 hadn't really read the diary or anything like that. I 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.280 was always under the oppression that they were living in 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.280 a much tinier space. And what they lived in it 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.280 was basically a house, like a two story house, and 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.319 they had yeah, not huge, not a huge amount of 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.440 space but for the four of them. But it wasn't 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:16.200 underground railroad kind of under the floorboards. Now, not like that, 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.840 and not not like like glorious bastards the Jews were 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.560 hiding under the floorboards. Yeah, although I'm sure there were 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.760 some that were there, probably were. Yeah, anyway, that would 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.760 have been a not a bad space for the frank family. 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.280 But about a week later, Hermand van Pel's, which was 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.520 one of his employees, showed up with this family. So 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.040 that's him and his wife and his son. And then 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:43.280 several months later another friend showed up, Fritz Feffer. So 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.800 all in all, eight people living in that space for 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.400 over two years. Yeah, they weren't able to go outside 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.960 and get fresh air and a little sunshine and only 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.520 one bathroom between eight people. Yeah, so I'm thinking things 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.280 got a little tents and yeah, but it does be 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.280 getting killed, yeah or worse. Yeah, yeah, not like the 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.920 Nazis were, you know, the worst thing wasn't being killed 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.840 by them. Yeah, that's true. They did some hideous things, yes, Yeah. 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.160 The thing that gets me about this, I guess is 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.680 like there had to have been blueprints or it seems 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.120 like prime hiding spot right that you would be able 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.640 to walk and say, oh, there's an extra house back there. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.360 I don't but I guess I don't know how active 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.520 searches were or anything like that. Yeah, I don't know. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.360 I mean it was it was if you're working in 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.040 the building, it would be kind of obvious because the 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.840 offices only extend back so far, and get the warehouse 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.199 below extends back a lot further. But you know, the 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.240 guys that worked in the warehouse maybe didn't get up 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.800 to the opposite all that much. Probably not to the 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.600 back office, or the sense of space is different. Keep 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.560 in mind that it wasn't as if it's just a 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.600 big empty space. It's a warehouse space on the bottom, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.840 it's got stuff stacked up, an office space. It's got walls, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:02.040 it's got people and deaths, So there's things that can 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.439 sort of distort your sense of proportion. Yeah. I don't 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.000 know if you've ever been in an office where you 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:08.959 feel like this place just goes on and on and on, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:10.960 and then suddenly it feels like you're in an area 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:16.160 that's really small and every Monday through friends and there. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.240 It's just simply because of the way that it's arranged 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.000 and what's in it, And to a degree, I think 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.959 that's what worked in the Frank's benefit. It seems also 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.320 likely that on the off chance that a worker does 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.040 come up and say it seems like there should be 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.480 more back there, you can say, oh, there was lab 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.320 space back there, but we closed it off. They want 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.560 to be wasting money on heat, you know and stuff 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.360 like that. Yeah, there's there's ways around, or just say 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.240 shut up and take your paycheck and go. Just be 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.440 happy you have the job. They say something like they said, 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.880 we don't know anything about any Jews, no one there. Yeah, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.280 I don't have people hidden in there anyway. So our 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.440 our eight people are called the hiders, and there were 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.360 six people called the helpers who who knew about them, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.600 and four of them worked there, and then there were 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.440 two others. So there are helpers were Victor Kugler, meet 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:21.520 Peace and I'm already mangling these Bet bush Kyl, Johannes Klayman, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.600 Yankee Johannes Vush Kyle who was Bebe's father, and young 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:32.120 young Kee was Meske's husband. Uh, they were the helpers 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.400 and they did stuff like well, first off, toy kept 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.800 their mouth shut about the whole thing I was important 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.960 to do, and they did. They would would do other 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.880 stuff too, like like jan would go out and find 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.360 a way to get illegal way to get rationing cards 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.480 because they had to get food for these people, right, 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.320 so he had he procured rationing cards and they all 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.480 went out and got supplies for them. But most especially 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.320 Meep did. She did a lot of shopping for those 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.000 two years, and she was going out because she had 0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.640 to be a little profile about it. She had to 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.640 go a couple of times, probably several times a day, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.800 and she could only see what her rule was to 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.080 go to go to several different stores and at one 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.440 by by a single bag of groceries and nothing more 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.160 unless you could hide something under a coat and then 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.960 bring it back and then go to another store. So 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:21.080 she I mean, these people worked hard. One who lived 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.920 to be a hundred Yeah, she died in two Yeah, yeah, 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.080 I don't remember what website it was. I was reading 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.360 some story I think it was on the Guardian or 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.480 something like that, and I was reading it and they 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.000 had a picture of her in a hundred years old, 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.600 and then they had a picture of her from I 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.760 think nineteen forty or nineteen forty two, and Otto Frank 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.400 was in the picture. But it was so weird. Is 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.960 you see somebody and you're trying to figure out what 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.440 they looked like when they were younger. Except the photo 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:53.520 was captioned incorrectly and it said so and so bottom 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.480 center left, and so and so bottom center left, like 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.920 two people, so I kept look at I was so 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.560 confused until I finally figured out which one it was, 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.800 because obviously she looked like her. But it was really 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.880 it was really interesting that she managed to She was 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.080 the last one of all of these people. Yeah, that 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.600 the last survivor of the entire group. She must have 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.800 been eating a lot of pine cones. Is that what 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.800 it is? I think, Grandma. Some of the other things 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.720 that they did, they would keep them up to date 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.720 on what's going on outside. I assume they brought in 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.880 newspapers and books for them to read, bet order correspondence, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.680 courses and subjects like Latin and shorthands to keep them occupied. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.520 And the girls were taking those, yeah, and so doing 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.560 really well. Yeah, Margo, Margot, Margo. She didn't she get 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.440 perfect scores on her shorthand test or something, Yeah, something 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.520 like that. Yeah, so they were doing really well. Well. Yeah, 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.880 that's that's a good idea. If you're sitting there, religant 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.080 group of people, I think, oh yeah, smart, smart people. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.640 And you know that the girls obviously weren't able to 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.640 go to school, so they want to do something for 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:02.680 it to heal them. So's not too far behind when 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.200 the war is over. But as I said, to keep 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.200 the factory workers, the guys down to the basement in 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.159 the dark, they had to be very quiet during the 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.399 daylight hours, and they couldn't plush the toilet during work hours. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:16.800 They also had to be careful at night because they 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.280 couldn't really have lights on and they couldn't have the 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.719 curtains open. Yeah, because there's there's other buildings and facing it. 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:25.920 Yeah this yeah, this is uh, this is this isn't 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.080 a block of buildings. And I don't know if you 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.160 lift the aerials of it. I'm sure you guys have. Yeah, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.119 And so there's like almost like a courtyard which is 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.159 all the backyards of these buildings, which was kind of 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.480 kind of an open space, and so people across the 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.800 way it could look in the windows. So you had 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.800 to keep those curtains shut. Yeah. One supposes that you 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:46.159 would simultaneously not wear your shoes and not be on 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.399 the lowest most level. That would do a lot of 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.880 the During the day, you would be able to walk 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:54.920 around a little more freely. But I think you could 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.159 talk in low voices. Well, yeah, because they're they're the 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.920 lowest floor of their living space. There. Hiding space was 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.320 actually the second floor. Yeah. But also it looked like 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.320 from the model it didn't share actually share, It wasn't 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.720 the same level. There was a space of insulation or 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.439 something in between the warehouse and the floor. That's what 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.560 it looked like to me. But it would still be 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.080 you know, it's an old building. It's not going to be. No, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.520 it's not quiet now, not at all that. Yeah, I'm 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.399 sure they were able to move around, they just couldn't 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.679 be shouting or playing loud music or anything like that. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.119 And then pictionary, yeah, and then and on the weekends 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.280 sometimes sometimes Otto would allow allow and to go down 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.200 and sit in his office at his desk, his old 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.200 office from when he was when he was worked there. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.879 And so I'm sure that was a nice change. I 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.520 mean it's not much, but I mean, you know, but 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.240 also a little privacy, a little privacy. So she would 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.920 work at her diary and stuff. She was We didn't 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.119 say this, really, we didn't do the math for people. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.719 She was thirteen when they went into hiding, so she 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:02.280 was she was in hiding from thirteen to fIF teen. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:09.879 That's a bad time, yeah, be necessarily around people of 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:11.760 the time. Good point. And she was working at a 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.199 diary and she was very private about her diary, and 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.679 she was always not wanting anybody looking over her shoulder 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.040 or anything. And so yeah, for her, that was probably 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.679 really nice to sit in Dad's office and work in 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.200 the diary and just be away from everybody else. Yeah. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:29.080 I have a question about the diary because this is 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.600 I obviously, as we said, didn't read it, but when 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.880 I was reading stuff about it, it sounded like she 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:44.400 edited the contents of her diary continually so that when 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.320 the diary when she was taken away, the diary was 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.280 in the voice of fifteen year old and Frank, even 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.959 though it had initially in the beginning been written by 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.760 thirteen year old and Frank, which is just it's so 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.080 it's execute perspective in a way, do you see. I 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.480 think the sense I had was it wasn't so much. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.280 I mean, obviously it wasn't go back into lead because 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.600 it was handwritten, presumably in penn. The impression I had 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.639 it was more cross out and write in the margin, 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.240 or just write notes in the margin. I know there 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.840 was one bit where it said she had written something 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.040 about how much she hated her mother and she wasn't 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.200 a mother of hers, and then she had gone back 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.639 and crossed out and said like, and what are you saying? 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.840 What are you doing? That's so dumb? I know that 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.080 for me, you know, when I was a teenage girl, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.720 I kind of journal off and on, and I would 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.240 do things like that. I would go back and read 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.840 and write little notes to myself in the margin and 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.240 things like that. That was kind of the impression that 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.560 I had. But again, I also haven't read it, so 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.399 I don't Yeah, I I don't know. I mean, it 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.600 just makes me think there's a book out there that 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.760 I read years and years ago, Flowers for Algernon. I 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.520 think it's how you pronouncing, and it's written, you know, 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:02.240 in this voice that evolves in maturity and then devolves again. 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.240 And to me, it's almost as if I remember there 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.600 was a passage in the book where it said I've 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.040 been told not to go back and fix my writings 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.880 in the beginning. And that's just one of those things 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.639 that popped into my head when I was reading that 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.280 about and well, she wanted to be a journalist, she decided. 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.680 Everything I've read about it is that she recognized. And 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.800 then you know, literary critics afterwards recognized that her writing 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.640 style improved infinitely. She was devoting herself, you know, that's 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.880 all she was doing when she was and so I 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.840 think she would probably you can't you go back and 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:39.439 you read that stuff if it's there, if it's one 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.800