WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Eye tracking and Advertising 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:04.400 Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to tonight's classic episode What are 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.120 you looking at? Statistically? You're looking at your phone and 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.760 you're hearing this while you're doing something else. What did 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:11.400 you look at? Did you look at the top right 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.640 corner of your phone? Did you look at the bottom left? 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.000 Did you buy that thing that the Instagram ad told 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.640 you to? I did? It was not a very good product. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.159 When the pop up ad occurred. How long did it 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.239 take your eyes to move down to that ad and 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:25.040 then move away? 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.280 When your Instagram or your TikTok algorithm pops up and 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.479 you get the whole, you know, cornycopia of little bits? 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.720 Which one do you stare at? It doesn't even matter 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:38.280 if you click. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.879 How long did you look at that lady bouncing around? 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:50.040 I bet it was too long? Trampoline stuff acause. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:55.280 Yeah, guy buys so many trampolines. Yeah, you gotta have 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.200 the context, folks. This is a favorite of ours. Ads 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.720 are ubiquitous on the in They're the achilles heel of 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:09.440 many Internet businesses, including podcasts, and we had a lovely 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:16.280 and disturbing conversation back in twenty nineteen about ad blockers 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:22.680 about the old question regarding how much does my social 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.600 media platform or my phone know about me? And this 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.560 is if I recall correctly, guys, this is the one 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.320 where we talk specifically about eye tracking. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.920 Yeah, in twenty nineteen, that stuff was pretty good, that 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.039 tech that could just watch what you're doing. So you know, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.920 before you even start this episode, go ahead and cover 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.679 up that camera and then let's get and then let's 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:46.880 be no. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.200 Pull pull up a picture of us and look at it. Yeah, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.840 we should get a we should get a little clip 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.640 of all of us just jumping on a trampoline. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.960 Oh man, I do want a trampoline, so many of 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:02.520 course we. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:03.480 Can be cool. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.639 And we'll jump right in on the trampoline. And then 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:09.520 also to this. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:15.080 Episode, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.800 is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.680 or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.840 A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.000 Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:37.720 name is Nola. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.360 They call me Ben. We are joined with our super 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:47.040 producer MAYA nickname to be decided cold today, So right 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.040 in and give us suggestions for cool nicknames. Mission Control 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.760 has already taken. Paul is on an adventure. We'll return soon. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.200 Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:02.880 makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Quick question, folks, 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.119 as you are listening today, what are you looking at? 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.080 What do you often do when you're listening to a podcast. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.280 A lot of our fellow listeners have written in to say, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.000 I listen to stuff they don't want you to know 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:20.200 when I'm exercising or when I'm doing housework. Sure. Yeah, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.120 when I'm in the middle of another smash and grab 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.239 on a crime spree. We're kidding, don't do crime. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.160 A lot of it is about people doing hobbies, whatever 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.960 their hobby is, at their home. They're listening to a podcast. 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.560 Ben and I off of Mike, just had a discussion 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.400 about us working or on a computer or playing a 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.480 video game, even on mute while listening to podcasts. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.640 But what do your eyes do while you're busying your 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:48.880 ears with us? 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.080 Wow? Yeah, I after doing some research on this, I 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.040 actually started wearing sunglasses in the. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:01.520 Studio, at least for today's episode, not just for like 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.160 to look awesome and be like slightly intimidating. 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.280 I don't you know, I'm flattered, but I think I 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.640 think most people just find it annoying. But it's honestly, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.480 it's a bit freakish what we're exploring today, and we 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.880 would like you to be part of this conversation. So 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.160 as we always like to say at the top of 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.800 the show, if you have something you want to let 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.800 us know immediately post taste before you forget. And you're like, 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.400 I don't have time to write out an email, I 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.400 need to hop on the horn right now. Well, you, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.760 my friend, are in luck because you can call us directly. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.640 We are one eight three three sdd WYDK. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.560 Yes, that's our number, calling right now. Leave a message, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:41.520 tell us anything you want. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.440 You have three minutes. And remember, if you do not 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.000 wish to be identified on air, that's all jolly good. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.159 Just explicitly tell us that. 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.039 Or if you just want to tell us something and 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.360 you don't want it to go on air at all, 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:54.080 tell us that too. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.440 Or you use one of those voice disguisers the serial 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.880 killers use. That's entirely up to you and on your dime, 0:04:59.040 --> 0:04:59.719 serial killers. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:01.039 That's profiling. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.599 That's fair, that's fair. Here's a thing we never mentioned 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:04.560 a the top of the show that I would like 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.039 to today, If you would be so kind, please leave 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.920 us a review on whatever podcast platform of choice allows 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.880 you to do so, preferably Apple Podcasts. I think that's 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:14.800 what they're calling it these days. Say something nice. It 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.520 helps with the algorithm, it helps raise the profile of 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.920 the show, and honestly, considering how many people listen to 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.960 the show, the number of reviews we have is a travesty. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:25.080 So help us with that. 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:31.280 Yes, vote your conscience please. So before you heard our 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:36.880 our weird voices coming through your ear holes, you probably 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.760 heard an add Maybe it was a promotion for one 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.480 of our many new podcasts. Maybe it was some some 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.640 offer to go to a website like Great Courses or 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.520 something like that. A long time ago, years and years back, Matt, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:58.840 you and I had an unsuccessful experiment. We've had many experiences, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.480 yes this right, Yes, I do. Years ago we decided 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.760 we're looking at big data and advertising in general in 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:11.800 these our modern days, to try and count every single 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.479 ad we saw in the space of one day. And 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:16.440 we failed. 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.240 Yeah, because eventually you just give up. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.200 I lost count after two hundreds. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:20.760 Yeah. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.680 Yeah, And I remember we had lengthy discussion about what 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.400 constitutes an ad, right, is a logo like just a 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.279 singular logo without any other words or a picture that 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:32.359 represents a company. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.200 Is that an AD? 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.719 I would argue, Yes, I think so too, And in 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.640 that case, we I mean, we weren't even counting correctly 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.040 because there were so many of those that we encounter 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:42.480 every day. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.279 Although the nature of who pays for the AD or 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.920 how the AD is distributed probably should be on the table, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.880 because if I have an Adida's hoodie, I paid money 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.800 for that Adida's hoodie because I think it's cool, but 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.480 it's also technically an ad for Adidas, and they didn't 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.200 buy it though I paid them for the privilege of 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:58.159 wearing their at. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.960 Right, you paid them for the privilege of ads advertising for. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.160 Them, That's right, So congrats. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.880 That's why I usually that's why I usually am adverse 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.480 to many brands. But but you know, that's the nature 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.480 of the beast, right, people like those identifiers. Ads are 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:18.520 not necessarily a terrible thing. It would be ridiculous for 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.520 us to argue that on this show, right, because there 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.400 will be an AD here at some point. However, ads 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.760 are so ubiquitous advertisement in some form every day most 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.600 of us are surrounded by institutions, technologies, and various groups 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.520 that try ardently to collect as much information about us 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.800 as possible and then analyze it six ways from Sunday. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.240 And you know, often they get things hilariously wrong. Like 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.080 have you you've probably you've probably had this thing where 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.920 you order something that's maybe a one time purchase. You 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.680 get like a toilet seat replacement or whatever, and then 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.360 the next thing, you know, for a week or two, 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.200 you're inundated with these ads for toilet seats, like there's 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.280 some kind of regular toilet seat enthusiasts, Like here's some 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.800 sort of attic. And Facebook is thinking, well, if we 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.080 just keep showing them the ad, look, what are they 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.560 gonna do? Are they gonna say just one more? I'll 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:11.880 treat myself. I guess this. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.280 Guy's on a custom toilet seat kick right now. We 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.000 really got to flood in while the strove while the 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:16.760 iron's hot. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.960 Or you buy a car and they're like, you know what, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.640 this person who just bought a Corvette needs three more Corvettes. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.200 Yeah, just wait till you have a child. Ben, one 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.320 day you're going to have a child. I can I 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.640 can foresee it. I had a prophecy and when you 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.480 have a child, you realize just how many ads are 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.720 thrown at you about having a baby. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.200 Yeah, and it gets pretty invasive, right. There are not 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.520 as many privacy safeguards as one would expect when it 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.520 comes to the world of data aggregation. We always talk 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.520 about the famous and completely true, by the way, folks 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.480 story about target predicting a pregnancy in such a way 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:01.200 that surprised the parents of the expecting mother. At times, 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.000 advertising now, especially in the digital space, can feel close 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.360 telepathy or an attempt at it, but it's not quite 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.480 there yet, and that is what today's episode is about 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.880 in large part. So here are the facts. It's no 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.880 secret that advertisers are infamous for their relentless pursuit to 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.760 learn everything they can about you, no matter who you are, 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.000 in the hopes of selling you something at some point. Yeah. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:32.200 But there's this one thing that's always alluded all of 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.719 their efforts and all of these companies and how much 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.200 time and money they've spent on this, And it is 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:42.120 your physical bodily reaction to everything that they're doing, to 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.040 the ads that they're putting in front of your face, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:49.600 to the how bright, how dark like, what color? All 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.240 of these things they cannot tell precisely how you are 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.040 reacting in real time. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.760 Which just to give you a sense of the stakes 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:02.120 here and how much information these organizations would like to collect. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.520 If you had, for some reason, I'm not making fun 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.320 of anybody, if you had, for some reason a physical 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.079 reaction where you had like a little anxiety fart every 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.480 time you saw something, they would want to know. 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.960 That yes, yes, yes, just so well that was one. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:25.360 That was one. There's not really a limit for data collectors. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.840 There's not a moment where they would say, well, this 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.640 is too much. We're getting a little weird right now. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.600 Whether there whether we're talking billboards or banners or ads 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.240 on your phone or your freemium game or whatever you're playing. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.120 Advertisers have always had to rely on other indicators to 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.040 see whether they could grab someone's attention. So they know, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.560 for instance, in a YouTube ad or something where you 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.480 have five seconds before you can click right, they know 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.319 that you are doing something during those five seconds, But 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.280 are you paying attention the ad or are you you know, like, oh, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.760 I'm gonna I don't know, drink soda. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.160 Well, yeah, especially just that concept if you're looking, if 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.959 let's say you're using your phone right and you've got 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.640 YouTube playing, a YouTube ad comes up, how are they 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.439 going to know if you're actually looking at that ad 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.719 or just looking somewhere else while it's playing, or even 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.880 putting your phone down. Right now, there are ways on 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.360 most smartphones to tell if you've put it down, if 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.280 you've turned the screen off, if you've clicked They definitely 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.640 know if you've done anything like that. But as of 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.719 right now, nobody is, well, at least, oh god, we're 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.880 about to get into it, but nobody's using the camera 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.440 to actually look at you while you're looking at. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.280 It officially, officially, officially, there are hacks of plenty, And 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.640 who reads their terms of service? You know what I mean? 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.640 Who does? I had an old friend, professor at a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.480 local university here who was a graphic design guy, and 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.400 he was working on a project to make terms of 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:07.560 service in those agreements more readable. Oh, like a really 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.079 cool thing that automatically sorted the stuff you should be 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.000 concerned about and popped it up at the top. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.720 That's really great, nice and cool. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.319 His funding was pulled. Oh yeah, there's just not an 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.600 incentive for it. Yeah. So here's a little experiment that 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.560 we found in Slate and I want to want you to 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.480 think about this just for a moment. Don't do this 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.680 if you're driving, if you're in the middle of like 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.920 your MMA training or whatever. Just wait, wait till you 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.320 have a safe place to sit down. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.160 Oh wait, and I've got an idea. If you can 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.120 find a mirror, look into that mirror while we read 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.040 off this this list. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.360 Oh interest, it's a little different. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.120 Yeah, it's we're mixing the senses here in the reaction. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.200 But we just want to see if. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:48.800 You notice anything. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.839 Okay, so consider for a moment, mirrors at the ready 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:52.760 the following list. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:13:03.360 Republican, abortion, Democrat, future, Afghanistan, healthcare. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.760 Same sex marriage. Now we've tried, I think all of 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.120 us to just say these as straight as we can, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.920 just like say the word without trying to add too 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.880 much to it. But we want to know if you've 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 noticed that there was was there any reaction in your 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.640 face when you heard any of those words. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.320 Maybe a dilation of the pupils at one point, right 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:28.000 or narrowing, Maybe your eyes flicked in one direction or another. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.280 Did you notice a blink that ordinarily would have passed 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.880 you by. There is a tremendous, profound enormous amount of 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.480 information reflected in the way you just read that list, 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.840 if you read it written down, or if you're watching 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:44.959 your own reactions. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.520 Honestly, we don't know exactly how it's going to be 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:52.360 if you just hear it precisely, but for certain there 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:53.280 was some kind of reaction. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.720 Sounds a tremendously powerful thing. I learned a cool fact 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.760 about sound. This is a total tangent. Okay, okay, So 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.720 this came to us from Will Pearson, a friend of 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.000 the show and a host of our podcast, Part Time 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.960 Genius Will Kick a couple studies to us that showed 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.920 sound can affect your experiences in subconscious ways. They don't 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.559 that you are not going to be aware of. If 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.600 you are eating, for instance, stale pringles potato chips and 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.800 someone is playing the sounds of some crunchy thing, yes, 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.080 then your brain will believe that the chips themselves are 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.320 fresh and not stale brilliant. And this is it's so 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.200 easy to affect people's sensory input. But here's what happened. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.320 When if you read those words that we just intoned, 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.160 then you may notice that your eyes paused for a 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.320 fraction of a second on certain words. And this is 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.120 definitely true for most of us because we put in 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:56.240 some phrases that could be considered oppositional right, Democrat, republican, 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.480 same sex marriage, et cetera. These things can be divisive 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.680 for some people in the US. And probably what was 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.760 happening was our brains as we read along. We're trying 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.560 to connect these things, even though they just exist independently, 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.480 right as fragments of a sentence. But did your pupils 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.160 dilate a little bit while you're reading the list at 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.800 which word you know? Did you blink at a different rate? 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.920 Did you backtrack to reread any words? And if so, 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.440 which ones, when and how long? Eye tracking can show 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.560 you all of this if you are an advertiser or 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.760 even more disturbingly, a government, this concept has also been 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.120 called the Holy Grail of advertising. It uses the image 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.760 from one or more cameras to capture changes in movements 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.040 and structure of our eyes, and it can measure all 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:49.200 of these things with scary or wellyan accuracy. Yeah, that's 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.600 where we're at, right now. That's that's right now. It 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.520 hasn't it hasn't really mainstreamed yet. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.640 Well, yeah, it's it's still one of those technologies and 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:05.040 approaches that you basically have to do it in an 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.480 environment where you're testing right now, because can you imagine 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.200 right now, if let's say everyone right now has an 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.960 Apple phone, some kind of Apple phone, it just rolls 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:16.880 out and the Apple lets you know, hey, just so 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.720 you know, your front facing camera is going to be 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.560 watching you at all times. Whenever you're looking at your phone, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.040 it's going to be tracking exactly what your eyes are doing, 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:25.960 and it's going to be taking that data and sending 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:26.760 it back to Apple. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.600 Do you think they'll keep Siri as the branding or 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:34.120 do you think they'll make a new, ostensibly friendly entity 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.480 for that. It's like, you know, every time you pull 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.360 up your phone, if you don't have time to type, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.240 don't worry. Danny can tell what you're looking at, and 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.120 Dany'll help you. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.560 I feel like Sirih's been looked at as kind of 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.760 a flop anyway, so maybe it's time to rebrand. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.320 Siria has been doing some great work for memes though, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.240 is that right? Yeah? Just like the meme economy, all right. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:53.920 I don't know how. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.400 I don't know any SIRIU memes. I don't use Siri 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:58.720 memes so. 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.840 Wait, okay, that's I'm trying to think about your question. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.359 Sure with uh Siri and what it's going to be, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.919 And it definitely, it definitely feels like a Black Mirror episode. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.439 We were just talking with our producers out there maya 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:18.920 in Seth by the way, Shadow producer Seth it's literally 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:19.680 his first day. 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.119 It's his first day, yeah. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.879 And we were talking with him about how Black Mirror 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.480 this this topic in this episode is Oh, I'm trying 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.200 to get back to what I was going to talk about. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.000 I got lost on Seth there for a second. Okay, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:36.680 So we were just we were discussing how Siri as 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.200 a thing feels like it will be what the new 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.000 phone is. It won't be like a phone. It will 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:51.160 be a Siri. Yes, yes, some kind of personified thing 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.200 that exists that you just interact with as another. 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.119 Being, something approaching AI as a personal assistant. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:58.800 That's what it feels like. But it will just be 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:00.480 that the device you have on you at all. 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:05.520 Time, and eye tracking would be a fundamental piece of that. Again, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:10.200 this stuff is not a theory. This is not necessarily alarmist. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.280 We're working, we're working to stay away from being too 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.639 too scary about this, But this is where we are 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:23.879 right now, and we'll pause for a word from our sponsors. Yeah, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.119 and we'll tell you what's happening pretty soon, sooner than 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:27.440 you think. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.760 Yeah, make sure you do not pause. Just listen all 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.879 the way through this and keep your eyes as open 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.840 and stare as for as straight as you can forward 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:36.479 while listening to the sponsor. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.320 Take your take your hands, take your pointer fingers and 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.280 your thumbs, and hold ratchet open. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.639 And let's see where everybody is. 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.720 I feel silly. No one can see us doing this. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:48.399 We both did it though. 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:01.960 We're back. And before we vilify eye tracking, which you know, honestly, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.320 I am totally down to do, we should mention that 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.360 it's not an inherently evil or bad thing. Right. There 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:10.240 are some advantages. 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.760 Yeah, so for folks who are into this technology. There 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.520 is an enormous benefit for people who have disabilities or 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:22.640 for example, the creation of immersive games. But how far 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.159 does it go and what are the implications? These are 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.720 the answers that may disturb them. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:33.879 Definitely, here's where it gets crazy. You're absolutely right. Okay, First, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:39.120 the argument about disabilities is entirely compelling and valid. If 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:44.200 someone is for example, paralyzed below their neck, then they'll 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:48.879 rely on mouth movements maybe, or there are already forms 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.320 of eye tracking I believe that exist in order for 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.000 them to maybe type with their eyes or something like that. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:59.600 This takes it to another level and it could be 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.720 a of tremendous and significant benefit to these people. It 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.480 also is, as you said, Noel, it's probably great for 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.919 VR games. Oh yeah, I haven't tried it. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:14.320 But it could be incredible instead of having to make right, yeah, 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:15.320 it would make a lot of sense. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.560 Also, I just I don't plan to. I wear sunglasses 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.080 all the time, but it's not because the lights are 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.720 too bright. It's because I already in real life don't 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.320 want people to know where I'm looking, you know what 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.600 I mean. I can't handle taking that to a digital realm. 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:31.520 It's all good man, Well. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:35.479 Here we are right now. Eye tracking seem like a lovely, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:40.440 nice convenience. But the implications are far reaching and too many, 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.080 deeply disturbing and deeply concerning at the very least, And 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.640 we're always really careful to separate our opinions from the facts, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.080 so I will say it. We always try to be 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.040 very explicit about this. It is my opinion that this 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.240 is a bad thing, and I'm glad to. I'm glad 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.359 to defend why if because usually the three of us 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.359 are on the same page. But if there's a disagreement, 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.919 I am I am glad to. I want to be 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.840 persuaded that this is overall a good thing. I don't 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:10.199 buy it. 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.399 Okay, Well, I'm going to go into it as though, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.640 just for fundzies that I believe that it's the greatest 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.399 thing ever and we have to institute it just to 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.399 make sure that we know everything about you that we 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.600 need to know, that we need to know, yes, we 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:26.560 all of us. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.840 Right. Well, first things first, as we said, this isn't theoretical, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:35.119 it is happening. There is virtually no government oversight. Zero 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:36.520 government oversight. 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.520