Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to tonight's classic episode What are
Speaker 1: you looking at? Statistically? You're looking at your phone and
Speaker 1: you're hearing this while you're doing something else. What did
Speaker 1: you look at? Did you look at the top right
Speaker 1: corner of your phone? Did you look at the bottom left?
Speaker 2: Did you buy that thing that the Instagram ad told
Speaker 2: you to? I did? It was not a very good product.
Speaker 3: When the pop up ad occurred. How long did it
Speaker 3: take your eyes to move down to that ad and
Speaker 3: then move away?
Speaker 1: When your Instagram or your TikTok algorithm pops up and
Speaker 1: you get the whole, you know, cornycopia of little bits?
Speaker 1: Which one do you stare at? It doesn't even matter
Speaker 1: if you click.
Speaker 3: How long did you look at that lady bouncing around?
Speaker 3: I bet it was too long? Trampoline stuff acause.
Speaker 1: Yeah, guy buys so many trampolines. Yeah, you gotta have
Speaker 1: the context, folks. This is a favorite of ours. Ads
Speaker 1: are ubiquitous on the in They're the achilles heel of
Speaker 1: many Internet businesses, including podcasts, and we had a lovely
Speaker 1: and disturbing conversation back in twenty nineteen about ad blockers
Speaker 1: about the old question regarding how much does my social
Speaker 1: media platform or my phone know about me? And this
Speaker 1: is if I recall correctly, guys, this is the one
Speaker 1: where we talk specifically about eye tracking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty nineteen, that stuff was pretty good, that
Speaker 3: tech that could just watch what you're doing. So you know,
Speaker 3: before you even start this episode, go ahead and cover
Speaker 3: up that camera and then let's get and then let's
Speaker 3: be no.
Speaker 1: Pull pull up a picture of us and look at it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we should get a we should get a little clip
Speaker 1: of all of us just jumping on a trampoline.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I do want a trampoline, so many of
Speaker 3: course we.
Speaker 1: Can be cool.
Speaker 3: And we'll jump right in on the trampoline. And then
Speaker 3: also to this.
Speaker 4: Episode, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
Speaker 4: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
Speaker 4: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
Speaker 3: name is Nola.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
Speaker 1: producer MAYA nickname to be decided cold today, So right
Speaker 1: in and give us suggestions for cool nicknames. Mission Control
Speaker 1: has already taken. Paul is on an adventure. We'll return soon.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that
Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Quick question, folks,
Speaker 1: as you are listening today, what are you looking at?
Speaker 1: What do you often do when you're listening to a podcast.
Speaker 1: A lot of our fellow listeners have written in to say,
Speaker 1: I listen to stuff they don't want you to know
Speaker 1: when I'm exercising or when I'm doing housework. Sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I'm in the middle of another smash and grab
Speaker 1: on a crime spree. We're kidding, don't do crime.
Speaker 3: A lot of it is about people doing hobbies, whatever
Speaker 3: their hobby is, at their home. They're listening to a podcast.
Speaker 3: Ben and I off of Mike, just had a discussion
Speaker 3: about us working or on a computer or playing a
Speaker 3: video game, even on mute while listening to podcasts.
Speaker 2: But what do your eyes do while you're busying your
Speaker 2: ears with us?
Speaker 1: Wow? Yeah, I after doing some research on this, I
Speaker 1: actually started wearing sunglasses in the.
Speaker 3: Studio, at least for today's episode, not just for like
Speaker 3: to look awesome and be like slightly intimidating.
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I'm flattered, but I think I
Speaker 1: think most people just find it annoying. But it's honestly,
Speaker 1: it's a bit freakish what we're exploring today, and we
Speaker 1: would like you to be part of this conversation. So
Speaker 1: as we always like to say at the top of
Speaker 1: the show, if you have something you want to let
Speaker 1: us know immediately post taste before you forget. And you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't have time to write out an email, I
Speaker 1: need to hop on the horn right now. Well, you,
Speaker 1: my friend, are in luck because you can call us directly.
Speaker 2: We are one eight three three sdd WYDK.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's our number, calling right now. Leave a message,
Speaker 3: tell us anything you want.
Speaker 1: You have three minutes. And remember, if you do not
Speaker 1: wish to be identified on air, that's all jolly good.
Speaker 1: Just explicitly tell us that.
Speaker 3: Or if you just want to tell us something and
Speaker 3: you don't want it to go on air at all,
Speaker 3: tell us that too.
Speaker 2: Or you use one of those voice disguisers the serial
Speaker 2: killers use. That's entirely up to you and on your dime,
Speaker 2: serial killers.
Speaker 1: That's profiling.
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair. Here's a thing we never mentioned
Speaker 2: a the top of the show that I would like
Speaker 2: to today, If you would be so kind, please leave
Speaker 2: us a review on whatever podcast platform of choice allows
Speaker 2: you to do so, preferably Apple Podcasts. I think that's
Speaker 2: what they're calling it these days. Say something nice. It
Speaker 2: helps with the algorithm, it helps raise the profile of
Speaker 2: the show, and honestly, considering how many people listen to
Speaker 2: the show, the number of reviews we have is a travesty.
Speaker 2: So help us with that.
Speaker 1: Yes, vote your conscience please. So before you heard our
Speaker 1: our weird voices coming through your ear holes, you probably
Speaker 1: heard an add Maybe it was a promotion for one
Speaker 1: of our many new podcasts. Maybe it was some some
Speaker 1: offer to go to a website like Great Courses or
Speaker 1: something like that. A long time ago, years and years back, Matt,
Speaker 1: you and I had an unsuccessful experiment. We've had many experiences,
Speaker 1: yes this right, Yes, I do. Years ago we decided
Speaker 1: we're looking at big data and advertising in general in
Speaker 1: these our modern days, to try and count every single
Speaker 1: ad we saw in the space of one day. And
Speaker 1: we failed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because eventually you just give up.
Speaker 1: I lost count after two hundreds.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I remember we had lengthy discussion about what
Speaker 3: constitutes an ad, right, is a logo like just a
Speaker 3: singular logo without any other words or a picture that
Speaker 3: represents a company.
Speaker 2: Is that an AD?
Speaker 3: I would argue, Yes, I think so too, And in
Speaker 3: that case, we I mean, we weren't even counting correctly
Speaker 3: because there were so many of those that we encounter
Speaker 3: every day.
Speaker 2: Although the nature of who pays for the AD or
Speaker 2: how the AD is distributed probably should be on the table,
Speaker 2: because if I have an Adida's hoodie, I paid money
Speaker 2: for that Adida's hoodie because I think it's cool, but
Speaker 2: it's also technically an ad for Adidas, and they didn't
Speaker 2: buy it though I paid them for the privilege of
Speaker 2: wearing their at.
Speaker 1: Right, you paid them for the privilege of ads advertising for.
Speaker 2: Them, That's right, So congrats.
Speaker 1: That's why I usually that's why I usually am adverse
Speaker 1: to many brands. But but you know, that's the nature
Speaker 1: of the beast, right, people like those identifiers. Ads are
Speaker 1: not necessarily a terrible thing. It would be ridiculous for
Speaker 1: us to argue that on this show, right, because there
Speaker 1: will be an AD here at some point. However, ads
Speaker 1: are so ubiquitous advertisement in some form every day most
Speaker 1: of us are surrounded by institutions, technologies, and various groups
Speaker 1: that try ardently to collect as much information about us
Speaker 1: as possible and then analyze it six ways from Sunday.
Speaker 1: And you know, often they get things hilariously wrong. Like
Speaker 1: have you you've probably you've probably had this thing where
Speaker 1: you order something that's maybe a one time purchase. You
Speaker 1: get like a toilet seat replacement or whatever, and then
Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, for a week or two,
Speaker 1: you're inundated with these ads for toilet seats, like there's
Speaker 1: some kind of regular toilet seat enthusiasts, Like here's some
Speaker 1: sort of attic. And Facebook is thinking, well, if we
Speaker 1: just keep showing them the ad, look, what are they
Speaker 1: gonna do? Are they gonna say just one more? I'll
Speaker 1: treat myself. I guess this.
Speaker 3: Guy's on a custom toilet seat kick right now. We
Speaker 3: really got to flood in while the strove while the
Speaker 3: iron's hot.
Speaker 1: Or you buy a car and they're like, you know what,
Speaker 1: this person who just bought a Corvette needs three more Corvettes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just wait till you have a child. Ben, one
Speaker 3: day you're going to have a child. I can I
Speaker 3: can foresee it. I had a prophecy and when you
Speaker 3: have a child, you realize just how many ads are
Speaker 3: thrown at you about having a baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it gets pretty invasive, right. There are not
Speaker 1: as many privacy safeguards as one would expect when it
Speaker 1: comes to the world of data aggregation. We always talk
Speaker 1: about the famous and completely true, by the way, folks
Speaker 1: story about target predicting a pregnancy in such a way
Speaker 1: that surprised the parents of the expecting mother. At times,
Speaker 1: advertising now, especially in the digital space, can feel close
Speaker 1: telepathy or an attempt at it, but it's not quite
Speaker 1: there yet, and that is what today's episode is about
Speaker 1: in large part. So here are the facts. It's no
Speaker 1: secret that advertisers are infamous for their relentless pursuit to
Speaker 1: learn everything they can about you, no matter who you are,
Speaker 1: in the hopes of selling you something at some point. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But there's this one thing that's always alluded all of
Speaker 3: their efforts and all of these companies and how much
Speaker 3: time and money they've spent on this, And it is
Speaker 3: your physical bodily reaction to everything that they're doing, to
Speaker 3: the ads that they're putting in front of your face,
Speaker 3: to the how bright, how dark like, what color? All
Speaker 3: of these things they cannot tell precisely how you are
Speaker 3: reacting in real time.
Speaker 1: Which just to give you a sense of the stakes
Speaker 1: here and how much information these organizations would like to collect.
Speaker 1: If you had, for some reason, I'm not making fun
Speaker 1: of anybody, if you had, for some reason a physical
Speaker 1: reaction where you had like a little anxiety fart every
Speaker 1: time you saw something, they would want to know.
Speaker 3: That yes, yes, yes, just so well that was one.
Speaker 1: That was one. There's not really a limit for data collectors.
Speaker 1: There's not a moment where they would say, well, this
Speaker 1: is too much. We're getting a little weird right now.
Speaker 1: Whether there whether we're talking billboards or banners or ads
Speaker 1: on your phone or your freemium game or whatever you're playing.
Speaker 1: Advertisers have always had to rely on other indicators to
Speaker 1: see whether they could grab someone's attention. So they know,
Speaker 1: for instance, in a YouTube ad or something where you
Speaker 1: have five seconds before you can click right, they know
Speaker 1: that you are doing something during those five seconds, But
Speaker 1: are you paying attention the ad or are you you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I don't know, drink soda.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, especially just that concept if you're looking, if
Speaker 3: let's say you're using your phone right and you've got
Speaker 3: YouTube playing, a YouTube ad comes up, how are they
Speaker 3: going to know if you're actually looking at that ad
Speaker 3: or just looking somewhere else while it's playing, or even
Speaker 3: putting your phone down. Right now, there are ways on
Speaker 3: most smartphones to tell if you've put it down, if
Speaker 3: you've turned the screen off, if you've clicked They definitely
Speaker 3: know if you've done anything like that. But as of
Speaker 3: right now, nobody is, well, at least, oh god, we're
Speaker 3: about to get into it, but nobody's using the camera
Speaker 3: to actually look at you while you're looking at.
Speaker 1: It officially, officially, officially, there are hacks of plenty, And
Speaker 1: who reads their terms of service? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Who does? I had an old friend, professor at a
Speaker 1: local university here who was a graphic design guy, and
Speaker 1: he was working on a project to make terms of
Speaker 1: service in those agreements more readable. Oh, like a really
Speaker 1: cool thing that automatically sorted the stuff you should be
Speaker 1: concerned about and popped it up at the top.
Speaker 2: That's really great, nice and cool.
Speaker 1: His funding was pulled. Oh yeah, there's just not an
Speaker 1: incentive for it. Yeah. So here's a little experiment that
Speaker 1: we found in Slate and I want to want you to
Speaker 1: think about this just for a moment. Don't do this
Speaker 1: if you're driving, if you're in the middle of like
Speaker 1: your MMA training or whatever. Just wait, wait till you
Speaker 1: have a safe place to sit down.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, and I've got an idea. If you can
Speaker 3: find a mirror, look into that mirror while we read
Speaker 3: off this this list.
Speaker 1: Oh interest, it's a little different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's we're mixing the senses here in the reaction.
Speaker 3: But we just want to see if.
Speaker 2: You notice anything.
Speaker 1: Okay, so consider for a moment, mirrors at the ready
Speaker 1: the following list.
Speaker 2: Republican, abortion, Democrat, future, Afghanistan, healthcare.
Speaker 3: Same sex marriage. Now we've tried, I think all of
Speaker 3: us to just say these as straight as we can,
Speaker 3: just like say the word without trying to add too
Speaker 3: much to it. But we want to know if you've
Speaker 3: noticed that there was was there any reaction in your
Speaker 3: face when you heard any of those words.
Speaker 1: Maybe a dilation of the pupils at one point, right
Speaker 1: or narrowing, Maybe your eyes flicked in one direction or another.
Speaker 1: Did you notice a blink that ordinarily would have passed
Speaker 1: you by. There is a tremendous, profound enormous amount of
Speaker 1: information reflected in the way you just read that list,
Speaker 1: if you read it written down, or if you're watching
Speaker 1: your own reactions.
Speaker 3: Honestly, we don't know exactly how it's going to be
Speaker 3: if you just hear it precisely, but for certain there
Speaker 3: was some kind of reaction.
Speaker 1: Sounds a tremendously powerful thing. I learned a cool fact
Speaker 1: about sound. This is a total tangent. Okay, okay, So
Speaker 1: this came to us from Will Pearson, a friend of
Speaker 1: the show and a host of our podcast, Part Time
Speaker 1: Genius Will Kick a couple studies to us that showed
Speaker 1: sound can affect your experiences in subconscious ways. They don't
Speaker 1: that you are not going to be aware of. If
Speaker 1: you are eating, for instance, stale pringles potato chips and
Speaker 1: someone is playing the sounds of some crunchy thing, yes,
Speaker 1: then your brain will believe that the chips themselves are
Speaker 1: fresh and not stale brilliant. And this is it's so
Speaker 1: easy to affect people's sensory input. But here's what happened.
Speaker 1: When if you read those words that we just intoned,
Speaker 1: then you may notice that your eyes paused for a
Speaker 1: fraction of a second on certain words. And this is
Speaker 1: definitely true for most of us because we put in
Speaker 1: some phrases that could be considered oppositional right, Democrat, republican,
Speaker 1: same sex marriage, et cetera. These things can be divisive
Speaker 1: for some people in the US. And probably what was
Speaker 1: happening was our brains as we read along. We're trying
Speaker 1: to connect these things, even though they just exist independently,
Speaker 1: right as fragments of a sentence. But did your pupils
Speaker 1: dilate a little bit while you're reading the list at
Speaker 1: which word you know? Did you blink at a different rate?
Speaker 1: Did you backtrack to reread any words? And if so,
Speaker 1: which ones, when and how long? Eye tracking can show
Speaker 1: you all of this if you are an advertiser or
Speaker 1: even more disturbingly, a government, this concept has also been
Speaker 1: called the Holy Grail of advertising. It uses the image
Speaker 1: from one or more cameras to capture changes in movements
Speaker 1: and structure of our eyes, and it can measure all
Speaker 1: of these things with scary or wellyan accuracy. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: where we're at, right now. That's that's right now. It
Speaker 1: hasn't it hasn't really mainstreamed yet.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's it's still one of those technologies and
Speaker 3: approaches that you basically have to do it in an
Speaker 3: environment where you're testing right now, because can you imagine
Speaker 3: right now, if let's say everyone right now has an
Speaker 3: Apple phone, some kind of Apple phone, it just rolls
Speaker 3: out and the Apple lets you know, hey, just so
Speaker 3: you know, your front facing camera is going to be
Speaker 3: watching you at all times. Whenever you're looking at your phone,
Speaker 3: it's going to be tracking exactly what your eyes are doing,
Speaker 3: and it's going to be taking that data and sending
Speaker 3: it back to Apple.
Speaker 1: Do you think they'll keep Siri as the branding or
Speaker 1: do you think they'll make a new, ostensibly friendly entity
Speaker 1: for that. It's like, you know, every time you pull
Speaker 1: up your phone, if you don't have time to type,
Speaker 1: don't worry. Danny can tell what you're looking at, and
Speaker 1: Dany'll help you.
Speaker 2: I feel like Sirih's been looked at as kind of
Speaker 2: a flop anyway, so maybe it's time to rebrand.
Speaker 1: Siria has been doing some great work for memes though,
Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah? Just like the meme economy, all right.
Speaker 1: I don't know how.
Speaker 2: I don't know any SIRIU memes. I don't use Siri
Speaker 2: memes so.
Speaker 3: Wait, okay, that's I'm trying to think about your question.
Speaker 3: Sure with uh Siri and what it's going to be,
Speaker 3: And it definitely, it definitely feels like a Black Mirror episode.
Speaker 3: We were just talking with our producers out there maya
Speaker 3: in Seth by the way, Shadow producer Seth it's literally
Speaker 3: his first day.
Speaker 2: It's his first day, yeah.
Speaker 3: And we were talking with him about how Black Mirror
Speaker 3: this this topic in this episode is Oh, I'm trying
Speaker 3: to get back to what I was going to talk about.
Speaker 3: I got lost on Seth there for a second. Okay,
Speaker 3: So we were just we were discussing how Siri as
Speaker 3: a thing feels like it will be what the new
Speaker 3: phone is. It won't be like a phone. It will
Speaker 3: be a Siri. Yes, yes, some kind of personified thing
Speaker 3: that exists that you just interact with as another.
Speaker 1: Being, something approaching AI as a personal assistant.
Speaker 2: That's what it feels like. But it will just be
Speaker 2: that the device you have on you at all.
Speaker 1: Time, and eye tracking would be a fundamental piece of that. Again,
Speaker 1: this stuff is not a theory. This is not necessarily alarmist.
Speaker 1: We're working, we're working to stay away from being too
Speaker 1: too scary about this, But this is where we are
Speaker 1: right now, and we'll pause for a word from our sponsors. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we'll tell you what's happening pretty soon, sooner than
Speaker 1: you think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, make sure you do not pause. Just listen all
Speaker 3: the way through this and keep your eyes as open
Speaker 3: and stare as for as straight as you can forward
Speaker 3: while listening to the sponsor.
Speaker 1: Take your take your hands, take your pointer fingers and
Speaker 1: your thumbs, and hold ratchet open.
Speaker 2: And let's see where everybody is.
Speaker 1: I feel silly. No one can see us doing this.
Speaker 2: We both did it though.
Speaker 1: We're back. And before we vilify eye tracking, which you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: I am totally down to do, we should mention that
Speaker 1: it's not an inherently evil or bad thing. Right. There
Speaker 1: are some advantages.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so for folks who are into this technology. There
Speaker 2: is an enormous benefit for people who have disabilities or
Speaker 2: for example, the creation of immersive games. But how far
Speaker 2: does it go and what are the implications? These are
Speaker 2: the answers that may disturb them.
Speaker 1: Definitely, here's where it gets crazy. You're absolutely right. Okay, First,
Speaker 1: the argument about disabilities is entirely compelling and valid. If
Speaker 1: someone is for example, paralyzed below their neck, then they'll
Speaker 1: rely on mouth movements maybe, or there are already forms
Speaker 1: of eye tracking I believe that exist in order for
Speaker 1: them to maybe type with their eyes or something like that.
Speaker 1: This takes it to another level and it could be
Speaker 1: a of tremendous and significant benefit to these people. It
Speaker 1: also is, as you said, Noel, it's probably great for
Speaker 1: VR games. Oh yeah, I haven't tried it.
Speaker 3: But it could be incredible instead of having to make right, yeah,
Speaker 3: it would make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Also, I just I don't plan to. I wear sunglasses
Speaker 1: all the time, but it's not because the lights are
Speaker 1: too bright. It's because I already in real life don't
Speaker 1: want people to know where I'm looking, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I can't handle taking that to a digital realm.
Speaker 2: It's all good man, Well.
Speaker 1: Here we are right now. Eye tracking seem like a lovely,
Speaker 1: nice convenience. But the implications are far reaching and too many,
Speaker 1: deeply disturbing and deeply concerning at the very least, And
Speaker 1: we're always really careful to separate our opinions from the facts,
Speaker 1: so I will say it. We always try to be
Speaker 1: very explicit about this. It is my opinion that this
Speaker 1: is a bad thing, and I'm glad to. I'm glad
Speaker 1: to defend why if because usually the three of us
Speaker 1: are on the same page. But if there's a disagreement,
Speaker 1: I am I am glad to. I want to be
Speaker 1: persuaded that this is overall a good thing. I don't
Speaker 1: buy it.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'm going to go into it as though,
Speaker 3: just for fundzies that I believe that it's the greatest
Speaker 3: thing ever and we have to institute it just to
Speaker 3: make sure that we know everything about you that we
Speaker 3: need to know, that we need to know, yes, we
Speaker 3: all of us.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, first things first, as we said, this isn't theoretical,
Speaker 1: it is happening. There is virtually no government oversight. Zero
Speaker 1: government oversight.
Speaker 3: Sounds good, sounds like something the private entities.
Speaker 1: Want, and that's that's I mean, that's a larger trend
Speaker 1: we're seeing, you know, private private control or private subversion
Speaker 1: of things that once existed as legal oversight in the
Speaker 1: governmental sphere. For example, there used to be the do
Speaker 1: Not Call list. Do you guys remember that?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I was on it. It's still a thing,
Speaker 2: right it is, But does it work? And I guess
Speaker 2: it doesn't, doesn't. I mean, I've had people who you
Speaker 2: know when you call and it's a human. That's the
Speaker 2: problem though right now, more more often than not, it's
Speaker 2: a robot. So you can't really yell at a robot
Speaker 2: and say, put me on your do not call list?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly right, And we have to ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: does the do not call list still exist? I mean,
Speaker 1: things are these kinds of intrusions are becoming more and
Speaker 1: more frequent, and more and more invasive, and really private
Speaker 1: industry use is leading in the charge. Apple has filed
Speaker 1: a patent for a three dimensional eye tracking user interface.
Speaker 1: There's a European company called uh Sense I get it, yep,
Speaker 1: because it's like a it's like an eye. It worked
Speaker 1: on that. It wants to have eye tracking software baked
Speaker 1: into smartphones very soon. And as this stuff becomes increasingly
Speaker 1: deployed in your laptops and your tablets, in your phones
Speaker 1: and your TVs. The freezer, yeah, smart refrigerator, Yeah, this
Speaker 1: will open a new front in the debate over privacy.
Speaker 1: As it stands now, privacy is very much an endangered species.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We talked about it as a good thing. With respect
Speaker 3: to virtual reality game playing or whatever. However else you're
Speaker 3: gonna be using VR or AR glasses like the old
Speaker 3: Google glass or some of the new prototypes that are
Speaker 3: coming out. Eye tracking will pretty much in the near
Speaker 3: future enable all these companies to collect your most intimate
Speaker 3: in I mean, for the most part, subconscious or unconscious
Speaker 3: responses to the entire world around you, any and all stimuli.
Speaker 3: They will have cameras facing at you so long and
Speaker 3: at all times that literally everything you encounter will be recorded.
Speaker 1: I thought we weren't gonna go dystopian this time around.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, unfortunately, this is this is.
Speaker 3: Okay, supposed to be the part of the one who's
Speaker 3: positive for this, right, I'm not gonna have any kind
Speaker 3: of existential breakdown right now about this.
Speaker 2: It's fine, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: We can switch sides if you want.
Speaker 2: Can we switch that? Okay?
Speaker 1: Okay, here, let's see. Let me take a swing at
Speaker 1: this on the positive side. All right, So I tracking technology.
Speaker 1: My position now is that it's great's superb, it's top
Speaker 1: notch because it helps advertising become more effective.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm only going to see the ads that
Speaker 3: really do pertain or interest to me.
Speaker 1: Right, So you're looking at your phone or you're looking
Speaker 1: at your tablet or your laptop, and advertisers receive this
Speaker 1: feedback that say, oh, Matt Frederick's eyes lingered for a
Speaker 1: few seconds on an advertisement, but then he didn't click
Speaker 1: on it. So how does he really feel about toilet
Speaker 1: seats or corvettes? How did Matt's eyes move as he
Speaker 1: looked at an ad? What did he look at first?
Speaker 1: We prioritize that in the future right to bring the
Speaker 1: corvette more in the forefront. Are there certain words, phrases
Speaker 1: or topics that are that are things Matt Frederick loves
Speaker 1: or they're things that are super like turn offs for him,
Speaker 1: Like whenever he sees something that mentions velcro, he's like,
Speaker 1: screw this, burn the system down, I'm going outside.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or pickled okra, like get out of here, get
Speaker 3: out of here with you.
Speaker 2: Just don't even put that on my phone.
Speaker 1: So then this means that successive ad campaigns will be
Speaker 1: more tailored to you. The argument on paper is probably
Speaker 1: something like they're more organic, or they're integrated, or that wait,
Speaker 1: I'm going back to my real side, hang on, yeah,
Speaker 1: or they're less invasive because it's something that you are
Speaker 1: predispositioned to show an interest in.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well I'm coming back on your side now.
Speaker 3: So when companies are trying to figure out what kinds
Speaker 3: of stories we want to hear, about what kinds of
Speaker 3: movies and television should be produced, they can think about
Speaker 3: all of these different things in a giant cloud of
Speaker 3: words and phrases that they can mix together and make
Speaker 3: me the stories that I want to see.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: And the way they're able to do this is through
Speaker 1: the collection and preservation, the hoarding and be fair to say,
Speaker 1: of the data they collect from the again largely unconscious
Speaker 1: movement of your eyes and largely uncontrollable. So we're talking
Speaker 1: about millions of people's eyeball footprints for lack of a
Speaker 1: better word, and then hundreds, probably thousands of companies in
Speaker 1: the near to mid future who will collect this across
Speaker 1: the digital ecosystem. What will they do with all that information?
Speaker 1: Whatever they want? Yay, that is ultimately the answer. That's probably.
Speaker 1: I mean there will be people who want to split
Speaker 1: some hairs over it, but ultimately, whatever they want.
Speaker 2: It's like anything else on the internet, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's all of the stuff that you pump into Facebook
Speaker 2: knowingly knowing that is what pays for your privilege to
Speaker 2: use Facebook. It's just going to get more and more specific.
Speaker 2: Before you know it, We're gonna have like biometric scanning
Speaker 2: that we're agreeing to allow be processed, and we have
Speaker 2: no way of knowing what the end results are or
Speaker 2: the end user is going to do with that information.
Speaker 2: Anybody that works at mailship already gave this stuff over.
Speaker 2: It's right, Well, that's the thing too, Like for example,
Speaker 2: this is a little bit off the subject, but it's similar.
Speaker 2: Like when marijuana was recreationally legalized for the first time,
Speaker 2: like in Los Angeles, and probably even when it was
Speaker 2: you know, prescription, you had to let them scan your ID.
Speaker 2: You had to let them scan your ID into some database,
Speaker 2: and you don't really have any control over what they
Speaker 2: do with that. It gives you the privilege of buying
Speaker 2: marijuana legally, but you're sort of rolling the dice as
Speaker 2: to is this going to come back and bite me
Speaker 2: in the ass if it's not legal in my state. Like,
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of different things.
Speaker 1: What if you get a job at a federal organization,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: And you know they're doing the same thing with nicotine
Speaker 3: sales in Georgia right now, or at least they're proposing,
Speaker 3: and I think it's not officially implace yet, but it's
Speaker 3: being done in some places here in Georgia where if
Speaker 3: you buy any nicotine product, they scan your ID and
Speaker 3: imagine the implications of that. Then it goes back to
Speaker 3: your healthcare provider and all of that.
Speaker 1: It's like Flannery O'Connor said, all all that rises must converge, right,
Speaker 1: but now in a really uncool way. Sorry Flannery, yes.
Speaker 2: But also thank it's true for saying that.
Speaker 1: So this is this is true, and that's an excellent point.
Speaker 1: The purpose is to aggregate this and get as close
Speaker 1: to predictive potential as possible. In theory, this stuff would
Speaker 1: be anonymous data they would they would describe as non personal.
Speaker 1: But in practice it's going to be very easy to
Speaker 1: penetrate the anonymity of that because think about it, your
Speaker 1: eye movements will be large unique. They will be largely
Speaker 1: tied to a device that is already identified with you,
Speaker 1: your smartphone right when the the GPS is trackable as well,
Speaker 1: so they know where you are when you're looking at things,
Speaker 1: sort of like uber I believe it was. Uber is
Speaker 1: using some of that same technology to float the idea
Speaker 1: of a system or a function in their software where
Speaker 1: they can not pick up people who have been drinking,
Speaker 1: which to me sort of defeats the purpose of a
Speaker 1: lot of Uber rides. But they can see and they'll say, okay, well,
Speaker 1: this person is calling, this person is calling a ride,
Speaker 1: but their phone says they've been at this place for
Speaker 1: you know, three hours and it's a bar or something.
Speaker 2: And you're just like, I'm not picking up that drunk patron.
Speaker 1: Right or something like that. But again, that's what Uber
Speaker 1: drivers and Uber customers have signed on for them, just
Speaker 1: saying there's a lot that we can get from phones
Speaker 1: and these other similar devices and that you might not suspect.
Speaker 1: And now this is going to this is going to
Speaker 1: kick it up to an entirely new level. I tracking
Speaker 1: from tablets and smartphones is tied to a unique device
Speaker 1: identifier associated with one specific device. So maybe they don't
Speaker 1: know that your full name is Noel Brown or Matt
Speaker 1: Frederick or Mia Cole, but they will know that it is,
Speaker 1: you know, an AT and T iPhone six s or whatever,
Speaker 1: and they'll know where it is and they'll know where
Speaker 1: it is. So because this ties into location tracking information,
Speaker 1: it can also tie to the locations that you show
Speaker 1: up at all the time. Right, most of these studies
Speaker 1: are being on this eye tracking stuff for being conducted
Speaker 1: in closed environments. But the technology is already it's already
Speaker 1: been out there. What we're telling you about is not
Speaker 1: just happening. It already happened. Although rumors that you've been
Speaker 1: reading about regarding Facebook's microphone being on or something like that,
Speaker 1: it's quite possible that you already unknowingly have an app
Speaker 1: or some piece of software on some electronic device that
Speaker 1: is trying to do something like this with your eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you know, just as Ben said, when we come
Speaker 3: back after this quick sponsor break, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 3: how towards the end there, how this is. This is
Speaker 3: literally like one tiny cut, right of the thousand cuts
Speaker 3: that we're giving ourselves that will eventually bring about.
Speaker 2: The gray goo grey goose.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding the don't worry. I'm just I'm just
Speaker 3: saying that the machines will be taking over really soon,
Speaker 3: and eye tracking is just one tiny part.
Speaker 1: Here's our sponsor, the Singularity, right, That's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nanobots, we're talking about premium vodka here, gents, the
Speaker 2: gray goose, the gray goose, the gray goo, the goose.
Speaker 2: You gotta get that goose, get goosed.
Speaker 1: You're here first. If you've never heard of vodka, okay,
Speaker 1: let that potato juice, right, yeah? Yeah, yeah, it said
Speaker 1: sweet sweet, sweet sweet moscow potato juice. Let's just start
Speaker 1: calling vodka that. Can we call it moscow potato juice?
Speaker 3: Drink responsibly and only if you're over twenty one or
Speaker 3: wherever the legal ages and whatever country you reside.
Speaker 2: If you if you're in Russia and whatever age. Yeah,
Speaker 2: or don't drink alcohol. That's also a thing. Cranberry juice.
Speaker 1: You can just eat the potato. I feel like we
Speaker 1: helped a lot of people with that. I think that's good.
Speaker 2: It should be a shirt.
Speaker 1: Guy.
Speaker 2: I like that you can just eat the potato.
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, where did where did your eyes go when
Speaker 3: when we just started talking about potatoes and vodka and
Speaker 3: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: What happened to your eyes? We need to know? Send
Speaker 2: us your your metrics please?
Speaker 1: Oh wow? Oh please feel free to not do that, okay,
Speaker 1: because we don't want to be held responsible. It turns
Speaker 1: out that there are many applications for this eye tracking technology,
Speaker 1: and this is incredibly dicey ethically. Fraud territory. We talked
Speaker 1: about cracking privacy. It's gonna be easier than ever once
Speaker 1: this stuff is out and mainstreamed and it's it's fully
Speaker 1: acknowledged as the new normal. You're just gonna have to
Speaker 1: treat everything you do as though it is a matter
Speaker 1: of public record, at least online. But there's another more
Speaker 1: troubling thing would I would argue, which is the concept
Speaker 1: of pre crime. Remember Minority Report. Yes, yes, this could
Speaker 1: that this could happen. As a matter of fact, it
Speaker 1: is happening. That's the thing that I keep trying to
Speaker 1: emphasize here.
Speaker 2: The gray goo. You're talking about the goo that the
Speaker 2: pre cogs are floating around in. That's it, is it?
Speaker 3: No No, I was talking about the nano essentially, just the.
Speaker 1: Nano nanobots functioning as like the philosopher's stone.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It's transformative.
Speaker 3: It can it can create whatever it wants, but it
Speaker 3: can also just cover the earth of it continues to
Speaker 3: replicate without any controller.
Speaker 2: Where's the goop.
Speaker 3: It's like a gray substance, like a gooey substance of nanobots.
Speaker 1: They just it's a thought project. Yeah, it's not real
Speaker 1: yet yet, but we do know that. Oh wait, we
Speaker 1: have to do my When did Minority Report come out?
Speaker 1: Are we passed a.
Speaker 2: Statute ninety nine? Okay, early two thousand, so we're solid.
Speaker 1: But anyway, spoiler alert here be spoilers after the countdown
Speaker 1: three two one.
Speaker 2: Two thousand and two spoilers.
Speaker 1: So so a Minority Report and we've all seen this film.
Speaker 1: In case you haven't seen it, Tom Cruise attempts to
Speaker 1: act as as a member of law enforcement in the
Speaker 1: near future in a pre crime division. And the way
Speaker 1: that the pre crime works is the precognitive triplets that
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier. Right now, they have these dreams while
Speaker 1: they float in this pool, and then their dreams are
Speaker 1: inscribed on these little wooden balls, and then Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: reads them and then attempts to stop a crime before
Speaker 1: it occurs. Right now, that's still kind of sci fi,
Speaker 1: but not as sci fi as you might think, all.
Speaker 2: The while manipulating things on kind of a holographic touch screen, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is largely the way we use tablets and stuff. Now,
Speaker 2: that's sort of pre pre cogged. You know our use
Speaker 2: of touch screens.
Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, so where are we at in
Speaker 1: real life with pre crime? Yes, it is a thing.
Speaker 1: We have to recognize that although companies and private organizations
Speaker 1: will take the brunt of criticism for this, law enforcement
Speaker 1: and security will have big roles to play, and this
Speaker 1: becomes very dangerous when we talk about more harsh nation states.
Speaker 1: Researchers in the US and the UK have mapped the
Speaker 1: correlation between blink rates, pupil dilation, and deceptive statements already, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like a polygraph of polygraph actually worked. So
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security has already been developing a
Speaker 1: pre crime program aimed at identifying criminals before they act.
Speaker 2: Yikes, Seth, Yes, Seth, we knew it before you even
Speaker 2: got in the room, buddy.
Speaker 3: We're totally joking. Of course, Seth is wonderful, although we
Speaker 3: have only met him for the first time today.
Speaker 1: That's true, But I feel a connection. I'm having like
Speaker 1: a cloud outless moment.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I see him out okay, yeah, maya solar
Speaker 3: the whole time.
Speaker 2: I can tell. So it's true.
Speaker 1: Though, this DHS program is called in a burst of creativity,
Speaker 1: future attribute screening technology or FAST. Huh that is for you?
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks man, You know I'm a real acronym buff.
Speaker 2: So what is fast?
Speaker 1: What does it do?
Speaker 2: It's when things move at an alarming rate of speed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeses essentially what's going to be happening here very soon.
Speaker 3: But yeah, this program is designed to take images analyze them,
Speaker 3: specifically at airport security.
Speaker 1: Checkpoints, which is already being instituted. Those facial scans. Have
Speaker 1: you guys seen them? If you travel fairly often as
Speaker 1: as we do here, then you'll notice they've become sort
Speaker 1: of the way that sessame credit was originally instituted. It
Speaker 1: was opt in and now it's mandatory.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's just to literally scan your face, in
Speaker 3: your eyes and what they're doing as you're going through
Speaker 3: the airport and through the security process and all the
Speaker 3: other things, just to see if are they doing any
Speaker 3: kind of weird movement, is there any kind of like
Speaker 3: what's your what is your eye position and your gaze
Speaker 3: at any given time? What are you staring at? Are
Speaker 3: you looking at the security guard cards? Are you looking
Speaker 3: at this certain bag? Are you giving off any kind
Speaker 3: of facial expressions that would seem suspicious?
Speaker 2: Are you just are you.
Speaker 1: Why are you breathing so heavy? Were you running?
Speaker 2: That's it? Is your heart rate elevated right now? Why
Speaker 2: is your heart rate up so high?
Speaker 3: It's just the dogs that are walking past right now
Speaker 3: checking everybody's bags.
Speaker 2: It's fine.
Speaker 1: So this is a very controversial application of this because yes,
Speaker 1: we could say that this has the potential to prevent
Speaker 1: crime and save lives.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: For instance, America has a tremendous, ongoing and tragic problem
Speaker 1: with mass shootings, which occur at a cartoonish and fundamentally
Speaker 1: offensive rate, one being too many.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well so, in theory, like if there were cameras
Speaker 2: set up in the way that could do eye tracking
Speaker 2: in a public space and someone was being what one
Speaker 2: might describe as shifty as the darting their eyes around
Speaker 2: at a weird you know, kind of clear up, that
Speaker 2: might be a flag.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's the question, could this prevent those sorts
Speaker 1: of tragedies. It's weird because it's tough to argue this.
Speaker 1: Let's say, for instance, Let's say, for instance, that someone
Speaker 1: snaps and they go to a public place with guns
Speaker 1: or maybe an explosive or something, but they're clocked by
Speaker 1: a camera and then they're arrested. Well, unless they wrote
Speaker 1: down or publicly stated what their intent was, they would
Speaker 1: just have a legal possession of a firearm, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so how can we prove what
Speaker 1: would have happened would have happened.
Speaker 2: That's why pre crime doesn't work right, not yet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it basically amounts to depriving someone of due process.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, yeah, And the technology always
Speaker 1: outpaces the legislation. It's something that we see time and
Speaker 1: time and time again, but the effects go beyond the
Speaker 1: computer screen as well. Researchers are testing a new product
Speaker 1: called Sideways. Sideways can track what products catch your attention
Speaker 1: on the shelves in a local brick and mortar store.
Speaker 1: I have seen this really at a grocery store or something.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's this particular like sideways TM version,
Speaker 3: but where there will be a camera set up in
Speaker 3: a specific aisle where you know, it looks as though
Speaker 3: it could just be for security purposes to check and see.
Speaker 3: Maybe if you're in a grocery store and there's a
Speaker 3: security camera right next to some of the medications or something,
Speaker 3: maybe a hot ticket item that's expensive and.
Speaker 2: Small, right, okay, but I swear to you.
Speaker 3: It's got not only is a camera set set up there,
Speaker 3: it's got the display right there, and it says it's
Speaker 3: recording while it's doing it. And again, it could be
Speaker 3: just CCTV, But why would you not take something like
Speaker 3: that and then be looking at how people are their
Speaker 3: eyes and how they're looking at things, how they're reacting,
Speaker 3: Because as a security officer, you could probably ascertain whether
Speaker 3: something wrong is going on by using the same things
Speaker 3: DHS is doing. Why would Kroger Oh, sorry I said it.
Speaker 3: Why would Kroger or Publics are one of these other
Speaker 3: big companies not be working with some advertising company to
Speaker 3: have data on that stuff?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah, the overhead investment is just pento beans in
Speaker 1: comparison to you know, the possible profit potential.
Speaker 2: And is that the kind of thing you would have
Speaker 2: to opt out of or could you even opt out
Speaker 2: of it if you didn't even know what's going on? Right?
Speaker 1: Right? Where's the informed consent?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in the store or in the store. But
Speaker 2: that could be one of those things where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's say I go to a music festival and they're
Speaker 2: signs saying, by the very fact that you are putting
Speaker 2: yourself in this environment, you are de facto consenting to
Speaker 2: be filmed, right right, right, which maybe doesn't hold up
Speaker 2: in court.
Speaker 1: I don't know that it does in public, Like if
Speaker 1: we're walking down the street.
Speaker 2: Is it public though? If it's a gated things, I
Speaker 2: don't need money to go into you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's up to them then, right.
Speaker 2: I just I just wonder how this would work. Obviously
Speaker 2: we're not there yet, but I think this begs the
Speaker 2: question of, like, how responsible do these companies have to
Speaker 2: be to let people know that this is going on,
Speaker 2: This kind of data collection is going on.
Speaker 1: Cough cough, not very cough. Yeah they don't. I mean
Speaker 1: there's not. Again, there's not too much oversight at least,
Speaker 1: like let's go back to this sideways or stuff like sideways.
Speaker 1: So you walk up to the item. Let's see, you're
Speaker 1: deciding between the store brand we have cereal at home
Speaker 1: type of cereal yeah, or maybe you're gonna splurge and
Speaker 1: get the Kashi. Yeah, get the Kashi. There you go
Speaker 1: like I earned it, I earned this fiber or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's your right. That's how you party. You're that person,
Speaker 1: and the grocery store has this system that will look
Speaker 1: at not just what you ended up getting, but will
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the decision process you
Speaker 1: went through, what's called the decision tree that led you
Speaker 1: to Kaushi right, and from that you will probably have
Speaker 1: some sort of linked contact avenue.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You'll get more even if you even if you don't
Speaker 1: sign up for the whatever Kroger app or something, you
Speaker 1: will be able to get targeted ads through Instagram, for instance,
Speaker 1: And eye tracking is going to be huge for Instagram.
Speaker 1: What kind of stuff can people learn about you from
Speaker 1: your eye movements? This is where this is where things
Speaker 1: become very dangerous, possibly fatal, and we'll explain why. So
Speaker 1: it shows not just what you're focusing on, but the
Speaker 1: order of operations that you use when thinking through as
Speaker 1: a visual stimulus, both where you tend to look in general,
Speaker 1: like does this person tend to do read the captions
Speaker 1: first or something nobody does? Or what you tend to
Speaker 1: look at and look for specifically?
Speaker 2: Are you just looking at the price? Is that how
Speaker 2: you're shopping?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: Are you looking at the name brands?
Speaker 1: Is the appearance of a certain thing or keyword more
Speaker 1: likely to sway you toward buying something is a.
Speaker 3: Bright color standing out to the majority of people who
Speaker 3: walk up to this section of the store.
Speaker 1: Does someone just have to slap Tom Cruise's face on
Speaker 1: anything and you will buy it? Yes?
Speaker 2: I thought when you said that, I was just picturing
Speaker 2: somebody slapping Tom Cruise's face when he jumps up on
Speaker 2: the couch on alpre It's like, get off my couch,
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise. That's not Were you raised in a barn,
Speaker 2: is not where.
Speaker 1: Your feet belongs, sir, real home, where you raised in
Speaker 1: a land where all the floors are couches.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a lovely place. I actually really twist
Speaker 2: an ankle a lot. You did have stepping between the
Speaker 2: cushions and then you'd go down, at least at least
Speaker 2: because it's when you went down, it's got like.
Speaker 1: An Ottoman vibe, right atom, Yeah, Oh that is it.
Speaker 1: Oh we got there, all right? Well, that that's our show.
Speaker 1: Oh clearly, Wait all.
Speaker 3: Right, but wait, I just there's one last thing here
Speaker 3: that we haven't even talked about yet, and this is
Speaker 3: this blows my mind just by looking at your eyes,
Speaker 3: something like sideways, Ben, who I'm speaking to?
Speaker 2: Ben? And he's covering his eyes with his very dark sunglasses.
Speaker 3: Yes, so just by looking at your pupils, these companies
Speaker 3: will be able to tell if you're having an emotional
Speaker 3: reaction to anything on that shelf.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Kind of reminds you of the Blade Runner test, right,
Speaker 1: remember that, Like there's a turtle, it's on its back,
Speaker 1: it can't get up.
Speaker 2: I have a question, can you guys tell by looking
Speaker 2: at my eyes right now that I'm tripping balls on acid?
Speaker 2: Right now? Wait?
Speaker 1: I cannot good, hold on, I'm seeing a little melting.
Speaker 2: Now, that's that's that's just how I look. Oh is
Speaker 2: that my acid? Yeah? Okay, sorry, I have.
Speaker 1: A new pitch. If you're encountering too much Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: in your life, who should have something to leverage all
Speaker 1: this Let's leverage all this crazy evasive technology for good
Speaker 1: if you if you are seeing too much of Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise and something, I propose we had the option of
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise Control, which will.
Speaker 2: Just like lower his guys all right, at the very least,
Speaker 2: be a plug in for like Google Chrome or something,
Speaker 2: you know, just to strip Tom Cruise from the Internet.
Speaker 2: I support that. Actually, that's not nice.
Speaker 1: You know, he's probably the nicest guy.
Speaker 2: And he does his own stunts and he's like three
Speaker 2: feet tall, but he's a little impusion, you guys, he's
Speaker 2: completely harm.
Speaker 1: He's bantam and he has a lot of energy that but.
Speaker 3: He's ot like what seventeen At this point, he's basically
Speaker 3: a god.
Speaker 2: Yes, he can.
Speaker 3: Materialize, dematerialized whatever he needs to do.
Speaker 1: His Thetan's got kicked out, you know years ago.
Speaker 2: He carefully he's probably in the room where he can
Speaker 2: stop your heart with one smoldering glance.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know why I was a million percent
Speaker 1: with you there, but I felt that passionately. No, I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I don't mess around with him anyway.
Speaker 2: But think about that.
Speaker 3: It can it can It can measure your emotional reaction
Speaker 3: to anything.
Speaker 1: Right, So it could We're joking about this tom cruise
Speaker 1: control thing, but it could do something like that where
Speaker 1: wherein it says, okay, we're going to remove the following
Speaker 1: things from a normal ad because this will make so
Speaker 1: and so more likely to buy kashi. Right, there's this
Speaker 1: is the really dangerous part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here it comes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not just the emotional reaction, but multiple studies confirm
Speaker 1: that someone's sexual orientation can be very easily discerned from
Speaker 1: observing their eye movements when exposed to certain images, so
Speaker 1: or at least their overall attraction right right, right, exactly,
Speaker 1: And this seems to be proven across virtually every every
Speaker 1: kind of orientation. One might imagine. It seems that the
Speaker 1: rules for our eyes apply across the board. Yes, this
Speaker 1: is dangerous because in some country trees, it is a
Speaker 1: crime to have certain sexual orientations, right, and.
Speaker 3: In the ideologies of certain groups, ideologies of certain groups,
Speaker 3: and you think about power and how it can change
Speaker 3: hands and all these things. It's a pretty terrifying technology.
Speaker 1: Right, especially we consider that not too long ago, in
Speaker 1: various countries across the world, for instance, being attracted to
Speaker 1: people the same sex was an automatic prison sentence, if
Speaker 1: not effectively a death sentence.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, And that still remains in places across the
Speaker 3: world today.
Speaker 1: So imagine that you're flying in to this country, you know,
Speaker 1: going on vacation, name a country, I don't want to
Speaker 1: pick on any specific one. And then you are stopped
Speaker 1: at customs, which is normal. They look at your passport.
Speaker 1: They may have a connection with five eyes or inner
Speaker 1: pull to make sure you're not an international taffy fie
Speaker 1: for whatever, and then they deny you entrgue because of
Speaker 1: some kind of test or facial scan or some data
Speaker 1: they had from you literally just walking in, yeah, walking in,
Speaker 1: or looking at people on Instagram or something, or on
Speaker 1: Facebook or whatever, what have you.
Speaker 3: Or maybe on the displays on the plane that you
Speaker 3: wrote in.
Speaker 1: On insidious I like it. Yeah. Also also maybe just
Speaker 1: data collected from the TV you're watching that is also
Speaker 1: watching you. Yeah, which is the best place to put
Speaker 1: these things, TVs and phones. So this means that someone
Speaker 1: without their informed consent could suffer legal consequences for something
Speaker 1: that is not a crime in their home country, right,
Speaker 1: or something that really isn't other people's business will being honest.
Speaker 1: So this leads us to our conclusion for today, which
Speaker 1: is really opening the door to more questions. At what
Speaker 1: price convenience? You know what I mean? Yeah? What are
Speaker 1: the advantages? Are you for this? Are you against it?
Speaker 1: Or as we say in the South, are you for
Speaker 1: it or again it? If so, why and if you
Speaker 1: are one of those people who accepts the argument that
Speaker 1: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything
Speaker 1: to hide. If you're one of those peoples on that side,
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. We love to
Speaker 1: hear your reasoning why. Maybe this is a necessary evil
Speaker 1: to some of us. Maybe the benefits ultimately outweigh the disadvantages.
Speaker 1: Right either way, no matter how you feel about it,
Speaker 1: if you're one hundred percent on board one hundred percent opposed,
Speaker 1: it's happening. It doesn't matter. It's kind of like not
Speaker 1: liking the weather. The weather doesn't care what you think
Speaker 1: about it, and the companies pursuing this I tracking I
Speaker 1: tracking technology don't really care what you think about it.
Speaker 2: Either.
Speaker 1: The money got too good and the potential is there.
Speaker 1: It's Pandora's jar. The lid has been unscrewed, and that
Speaker 1: lid only that it doesn't go back up.
Speaker 3: Well, that's your correct's ben. Well, well, here's what you
Speaker 3: may be thinking, because this is certainly a thought I had.
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here with a cell phone that has the front,
Speaker 3: the front facing camera covered by just a terrible looking
Speaker 3: piece of duct tape. But that's just how I roll,
Speaker 3: because I'm, you know, like you listening out there, I'm
Speaker 3: aware of some of these things. You may think, Well,
Speaker 3: what I'll do is I'll just cover all the cameras
Speaker 3: that I'm aware of that I can, and that way
Speaker 3: nobody will be able to tell what my eyes are doing,
Speaker 3: at least in my own home, right wherever I reside.
Speaker 1: Because the only other solution is to wear sunglasses all
Speaker 1: the time. And people don't, you know, people think something's up,
Speaker 1: but it does.
Speaker 2: It does look cool on you, Ben, I wish.
Speaker 1: Okay, we all look really cool in sunglasses. I like
Speaker 1: Nole's got some sunglasses with white frames.
Speaker 2: Those are keep them on my little neck. My neck
Speaker 2: piece here nice. When I say neck piece, I mean
Speaker 2: my my diamonds, my diamond encrusted icy I see it piece.
Speaker 1: I like it because it's kind of like a tie analog.
Speaker 2: But the way it catches the light too, you know,
Speaker 2: and it really catches the eye and the light well.
Speaker 3: And in this instance, I can see myself in your chest,
Speaker 3: which is an odd feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important. It's sort of a power move. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that you look like a cop with your glasses.
Speaker 1: Oh really, you have like these aviators right.
Speaker 3: No, they're just the old school sunglasses.
Speaker 1: Who is that guy? Then? I'm not sure? Okay, I
Speaker 1: think I'm being followed by a police officer. It looks like, yes,
Speaker 1: it's working, finally the dream. But yeah, this stuff, this
Speaker 1: stuff is happening, and it is tempting to think that
Speaker 1: there are more low tech solutions, like hey, guys, stop
Speaker 1: freaking out. Just put some tape over your camera, no problem,
Speaker 1: which obviously we do, but that is not going to
Speaker 1: work in the future.
Speaker 2: No right.
Speaker 1: Apple also had a patent application, as well as other
Speaker 1: technology companies, to have display screens that include thousands of
Speaker 1: tiny image sensors built into the screen itself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you are looking at the screen, it
Speaker 3: would be looking at you.
Speaker 2: I was about to say, you look in at the abyss,
Speaker 2: the abyss looks back at you. My friends.
Speaker 3: Here's the here's the crazy part, this filing, this patent
Speaker 3: that Apple filed that for.
Speaker 2: Do you know what year it was from?
Speaker 4: Noel?
Speaker 2: Can you want to take a guess?
Speaker 3: No, it was a display nineteen ninety three, two thousand
Speaker 3: and four. But seriously, though, think about when the iPhone
Speaker 3: came out. Think about like how often we've been using
Speaker 3: phones since then and the technology behind it. Apple filed
Speaker 3: a pattern for that in two thousand and four.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I never thought I would say this on
Speaker 1: this show. But in Apple's defense, a lot of times
Speaker 1: technology companies just file a patent. Yeah, as kind of
Speaker 1: a way of calling shotgun.
Speaker 2: No totally, I get that, I totally.
Speaker 1: Or they file patents to press technology or the government
Speaker 1: does that all which has actually happened. God, we're just
Speaker 1: we keep saying the government, and that's my specifically the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, heavy g.
Speaker 1: It is true that there is a there is a
Speaker 1: law on the books wherein if you file for a
Speaker 1: patent that is considered to be a threat to national security,
Speaker 1: you will lose your patent, it will become property of
Speaker 1: the US government, it will be removed. You automatically get
Speaker 1: a gag order preventing you from ever speaking about what happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can also happen if the government already has
Speaker 3: a secret patent for one of those things.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, secret patents. That's so that's cheating. I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do.
Speaker 1: The same thing in their position. But anyhow, anyhow, here
Speaker 1: we are. This stuff is not being suppressed. This is proliferating,
Speaker 1: spreading like wildfire to a cell phone near you. So
Speaker 1: the question is what what next? What to do do
Speaker 1: we fight against this? Uh, this new way of aggregating data,
Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever been reading something online and thought, Wow,
Speaker 1: it's crazy that I can have my own thought about
Speaker 1: this and it's still be private. The last sacricynct thing
Speaker 1: in the human experience now is just the mind.
Speaker 2: That's it, you know.
Speaker 3: I I think what's going to happen, and it's already
Speaker 3: starting to occur a little bit, but I believe companies
Speaker 3: will begin to thrive that specifically are their Their goal
Speaker 3: in creating products is to subvert this kind of tracking
Speaker 3: and this kind of surveillance. And again you can there
Speaker 3: are some companies out there that are trying to create
Speaker 3: a wearable tech things that you can put on your body,
Speaker 3: that your face, face paint, different things like that that
Speaker 3: will not allow facial tracking.
Speaker 1: To occur, like the camouflage that's used on some warships exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think those kinds of companies are going to
Speaker 3: proliferate and flourish, and you're gonna have ones that there
Speaker 3: are specific types of glasses that you wear that aren't
Speaker 3: actually you know, they're not to protect you from UV rays.
Speaker 3: It's just to protect whatever light sensing camera to see
Speaker 3: to your eyes. I really think that stuff's gonna proliferate.
Speaker 1: Maybe disruptive contact lenses. Oh yeah, that being a little easier. Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think you'll.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it gonna make my snapchat filters better?
Speaker 1: Probably? Eh?
Speaker 2: Well that I'm all for it, all right, And that's.
Speaker 1: Our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online.
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