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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome to tonight's classic episode What are

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Speaker 1: you looking at? Statistically? You're looking at your phone and

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Speaker 1: you're hearing this while you're doing something else. What did

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Speaker 1: you look at? Did you look at the top right

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Speaker 1: corner of your phone? Did you look at the bottom left?

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Speaker 2: Did you buy that thing that the Instagram ad told

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Speaker 2: you to? I did? It was not a very good product.

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Speaker 3: When the pop up ad occurred. How long did it

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Speaker 3: take your eyes to move down to that ad and

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Speaker 3: then move away?

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Speaker 1: When your Instagram or your TikTok algorithm pops up and

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Speaker 1: you get the whole, you know, cornycopia of little bits?

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Speaker 1: Which one do you stare at? It doesn't even matter

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Speaker 1: if you click.

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Speaker 3: How long did you look at that lady bouncing around?

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Speaker 3: I bet it was too long? Trampoline stuff acause.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, guy buys so many trampolines. Yeah, you gotta have

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Speaker 1: the context, folks. This is a favorite of ours. Ads

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Speaker 1: are ubiquitous on the in They're the achilles heel of

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Speaker 1: many Internet businesses, including podcasts, and we had a lovely

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Speaker 1: and disturbing conversation back in twenty nineteen about ad blockers

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Speaker 1: about the old question regarding how much does my social

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Speaker 1: media platform or my phone know about me? And this

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Speaker 1: is if I recall correctly, guys, this is the one

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Speaker 1: where we talk specifically about eye tracking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty nineteen, that stuff was pretty good, that

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Speaker 3: tech that could just watch what you're doing. So you know,

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Speaker 3: before you even start this episode, go ahead and cover

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Speaker 3: up that camera and then let's get and then let's

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Speaker 3: be no.

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Speaker 1: Pull pull up a picture of us and look at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we should get a we should get a little clip

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Speaker 1: of all of us just jumping on a trampoline.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, I do want a trampoline, so many of

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Speaker 3: course we.

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Speaker 1: Can be cool.

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Speaker 3: And we'll jump right in on the trampoline. And then

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Speaker 3: also to this.

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Speaker 4: Episode, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History

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Speaker 4: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

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Speaker 4: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 4: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 3: name is Nola.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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Speaker 1: producer MAYA nickname to be decided cold today, So right

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Speaker 1: in and give us suggestions for cool nicknames. Mission Control

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Speaker 1: has already taken. Paul is on an adventure. We'll return soon.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Quick question, folks,

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Speaker 1: as you are listening today, what are you looking at?

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Speaker 1: What do you often do when you're listening to a podcast.

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Speaker 1: A lot of our fellow listeners have written in to say,

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Speaker 1: I listen to stuff they don't want you to know

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Speaker 1: when I'm exercising or when I'm doing housework. Sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I'm in the middle of another smash and grab

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Speaker 1: on a crime spree. We're kidding, don't do crime.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it is about people doing hobbies, whatever

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Speaker 3: their hobby is, at their home. They're listening to a podcast.

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Speaker 3: Ben and I off of Mike, just had a discussion

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Speaker 3: about us working or on a computer or playing a

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Speaker 3: video game, even on mute while listening to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: But what do your eyes do while you're busying your

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Speaker 2: ears with us?

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Speaker 1: Wow? Yeah, I after doing some research on this, I

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Speaker 1: actually started wearing sunglasses in the.

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Speaker 3: Studio, at least for today's episode, not just for like

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Speaker 3: to look awesome and be like slightly intimidating.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, I'm flattered, but I think I

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Speaker 1: think most people just find it annoying. But it's honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's a bit freakish what we're exploring today, and we

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Speaker 1: would like you to be part of this conversation. So

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Speaker 1: as we always like to say at the top of

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Speaker 1: the show, if you have something you want to let

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Speaker 1: us know immediately post taste before you forget. And you're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't have time to write out an email, I

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Speaker 1: need to hop on the horn right now. Well, you,

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Speaker 1: my friend, are in luck because you can call us directly.

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Speaker 2: We are one eight three three sdd WYDK.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's our number, calling right now. Leave a message,

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Speaker 3: tell us anything you want.

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Speaker 1: You have three minutes. And remember, if you do not

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Speaker 1: wish to be identified on air, that's all jolly good.

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Speaker 1: Just explicitly tell us that.

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Speaker 3: Or if you just want to tell us something and

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Speaker 3: you don't want it to go on air at all,

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Speaker 3: tell us that too.

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Speaker 2: Or you use one of those voice disguisers the serial

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Speaker 2: killers use. That's entirely up to you and on your dime,

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Speaker 2: serial killers.

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Speaker 1: That's profiling.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair. Here's a thing we never mentioned

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Speaker 2: a the top of the show that I would like

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Speaker 2: to today, If you would be so kind, please leave

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Speaker 2: us a review on whatever podcast platform of choice allows

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Speaker 2: you to do so, preferably Apple Podcasts. I think that's

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Speaker 2: what they're calling it these days. Say something nice. It

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Speaker 2: helps with the algorithm, it helps raise the profile of

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Speaker 2: the show, and honestly, considering how many people listen to

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Speaker 2: the show, the number of reviews we have is a travesty.

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Speaker 2: So help us with that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, vote your conscience please. So before you heard our

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Speaker 1: our weird voices coming through your ear holes, you probably

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Speaker 1: heard an add Maybe it was a promotion for one

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Speaker 1: of our many new podcasts. Maybe it was some some

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Speaker 1: offer to go to a website like Great Courses or

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Speaker 1: something like that. A long time ago, years and years back, Matt,

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Speaker 1: you and I had an unsuccessful experiment. We've had many experiences,

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Speaker 1: yes this right, Yes, I do. Years ago we decided

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Speaker 1: we're looking at big data and advertising in general in

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Speaker 1: these our modern days, to try and count every single

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Speaker 1: ad we saw in the space of one day. And

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Speaker 1: we failed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because eventually you just give up.

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Speaker 1: I lost count after two hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I remember we had lengthy discussion about what

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Speaker 3: constitutes an ad, right, is a logo like just a

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Speaker 3: singular logo without any other words or a picture that

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Speaker 3: represents a company.

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Speaker 2: Is that an AD?

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Speaker 3: I would argue, Yes, I think so too, And in

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Speaker 3: that case, we I mean, we weren't even counting correctly

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Speaker 3: because there were so many of those that we encounter

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Speaker 3: every day.

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Speaker 2: Although the nature of who pays for the AD or

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Speaker 2: how the AD is distributed probably should be on the table,

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Speaker 2: because if I have an Adida's hoodie, I paid money

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Speaker 2: for that Adida's hoodie because I think it's cool, but

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Speaker 2: it's also technically an ad for Adidas, and they didn't

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Speaker 2: buy it though I paid them for the privilege of

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Speaker 2: wearing their at.

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Speaker 1: Right, you paid them for the privilege of ads advertising for.

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Speaker 2: Them, That's right, So congrats.

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Speaker 1: That's why I usually that's why I usually am adverse

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Speaker 1: to many brands. But but you know, that's the nature

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Speaker 1: of the beast, right, people like those identifiers. Ads are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a terrible thing. It would be ridiculous for

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Speaker 1: us to argue that on this show, right, because there

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Speaker 1: will be an AD here at some point. However, ads

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Speaker 1: are so ubiquitous advertisement in some form every day most

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Speaker 1: of us are surrounded by institutions, technologies, and various groups

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Speaker 1: that try ardently to collect as much information about us

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Speaker 1: as possible and then analyze it six ways from Sunday.

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Speaker 1: And you know, often they get things hilariously wrong. Like

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Speaker 1: have you you've probably you've probably had this thing where

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Speaker 1: you order something that's maybe a one time purchase. You

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Speaker 1: get like a toilet seat replacement or whatever, and then

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Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, for a week or two,

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Speaker 1: you're inundated with these ads for toilet seats, like there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of regular toilet seat enthusiasts, Like here's some

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Speaker 1: sort of attic. And Facebook is thinking, well, if we

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Speaker 1: just keep showing them the ad, look, what are they

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Speaker 1: gonna do? Are they gonna say just one more? I'll

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Speaker 1: treat myself. I guess this.

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Speaker 3: Guy's on a custom toilet seat kick right now. We

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Speaker 3: really got to flood in while the strove while the

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Speaker 3: iron's hot.

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Speaker 1: Or you buy a car and they're like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: this person who just bought a Corvette needs three more Corvettes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just wait till you have a child. Ben, one

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Speaker 3: day you're going to have a child. I can I

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Speaker 3: can foresee it. I had a prophecy and when you

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Speaker 3: have a child, you realize just how many ads are

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Speaker 3: thrown at you about having a baby.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it gets pretty invasive, right. There are not

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Speaker 1: as many privacy safeguards as one would expect when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the world of data aggregation. We always talk

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Speaker 1: about the famous and completely true, by the way, folks

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Speaker 1: story about target predicting a pregnancy in such a way

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Speaker 1: that surprised the parents of the expecting mother. At times,

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Speaker 1: advertising now, especially in the digital space, can feel close

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Speaker 1: telepathy or an attempt at it, but it's not quite

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Speaker 1: there yet, and that is what today's episode is about

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Speaker 1: in large part. So here are the facts. It's no

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Speaker 1: secret that advertisers are infamous for their relentless pursuit to

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Speaker 1: learn everything they can about you, no matter who you are,

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Speaker 1: in the hopes of selling you something at some point. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But there's this one thing that's always alluded all of

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Speaker 3: their efforts and all of these companies and how much

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Speaker 3: time and money they've spent on this, And it is

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Speaker 3: your physical bodily reaction to everything that they're doing, to

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Speaker 3: the ads that they're putting in front of your face,

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Speaker 3: to the how bright, how dark like, what color? All

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Speaker 3: of these things they cannot tell precisely how you are

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Speaker 3: reacting in real time.

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Speaker 1: Which just to give you a sense of the stakes

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Speaker 1: here and how much information these organizations would like to collect.

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Speaker 1: If you had, for some reason, I'm not making fun

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Speaker 1: of anybody, if you had, for some reason a physical

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Speaker 1: reaction where you had like a little anxiety fart every

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Speaker 1: time you saw something, they would want to know.

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Speaker 3: That yes, yes, yes, just so well that was one.

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Speaker 1: That was one. There's not really a limit for data collectors.

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Speaker 1: There's not a moment where they would say, well, this

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Speaker 1: is too much. We're getting a little weird right now.

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Speaker 1: Whether there whether we're talking billboards or banners or ads

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Speaker 1: on your phone or your freemium game or whatever you're playing.

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Speaker 1: Advertisers have always had to rely on other indicators to

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Speaker 1: see whether they could grab someone's attention. So they know,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in a YouTube ad or something where you

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Speaker 1: have five seconds before you can click right, they know

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Speaker 1: that you are doing something during those five seconds, But

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Speaker 1: are you paying attention the ad or are you you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I don't know, drink soda.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, especially just that concept if you're looking, if

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Speaker 3: let's say you're using your phone right and you've got

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Speaker 3: YouTube playing, a YouTube ad comes up, how are they

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Speaker 3: going to know if you're actually looking at that ad

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Speaker 3: or just looking somewhere else while it's playing, or even

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Speaker 3: putting your phone down. Right now, there are ways on

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Speaker 3: most smartphones to tell if you've put it down, if

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Speaker 3: you've turned the screen off, if you've clicked They definitely

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Speaker 3: know if you've done anything like that. But as of

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Speaker 3: right now, nobody is, well, at least, oh god, we're

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Speaker 3: about to get into it, but nobody's using the camera

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Speaker 3: to actually look at you while you're looking at.

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Speaker 1: It officially, officially, officially, there are hacks of plenty, And

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Speaker 1: who reads their terms of service? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Who does? I had an old friend, professor at a

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Speaker 1: local university here who was a graphic design guy, and

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Speaker 1: he was working on a project to make terms of

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Speaker 1: service in those agreements more readable. Oh, like a really

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Speaker 1: cool thing that automatically sorted the stuff you should be

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Speaker 1: concerned about and popped it up at the top.

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Speaker 2: That's really great, nice and cool.

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Speaker 1: His funding was pulled. Oh yeah, there's just not an

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Speaker 1: incentive for it. Yeah. So here's a little experiment that

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Speaker 1: we found in Slate and I want to want you to

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Speaker 1: think about this just for a moment. Don't do this

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Speaker 1: if you're driving, if you're in the middle of like

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Speaker 1: your MMA training or whatever. Just wait, wait till you

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Speaker 1: have a safe place to sit down.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, and I've got an idea. If you can

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Speaker 3: find a mirror, look into that mirror while we read

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Speaker 3: off this this list.

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Speaker 1: Oh interest, it's a little different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's we're mixing the senses here in the reaction.

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Speaker 3: But we just want to see if.

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Speaker 2: You notice anything.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so consider for a moment, mirrors at the ready

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Speaker 1: the following list.

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Speaker 2: Republican, abortion, Democrat, future, Afghanistan, healthcare.

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Speaker 3: Same sex marriage. Now we've tried, I think all of

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Speaker 3: us to just say these as straight as we can,

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Speaker 3: just like say the word without trying to add too

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Speaker 3: much to it. But we want to know if you've

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Speaker 3: noticed that there was was there any reaction in your

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Speaker 3: face when you heard any of those words.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a dilation of the pupils at one point, right

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Speaker 1: or narrowing, Maybe your eyes flicked in one direction or another.

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Speaker 1: Did you notice a blink that ordinarily would have passed

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Speaker 1: you by. There is a tremendous, profound enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: information reflected in the way you just read that list,

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Speaker 1: if you read it written down, or if you're watching

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Speaker 1: your own reactions.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, we don't know exactly how it's going to be

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Speaker 3: if you just hear it precisely, but for certain there

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Speaker 3: was some kind of reaction.

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Speaker 1: Sounds a tremendously powerful thing. I learned a cool fact

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Speaker 1: about sound. This is a total tangent. Okay, okay, So

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Speaker 1: this came to us from Will Pearson, a friend of

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Speaker 1: the show and a host of our podcast, Part Time

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Speaker 1: Genius Will Kick a couple studies to us that showed

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Speaker 1: sound can affect your experiences in subconscious ways. They don't

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Speaker 1: that you are not going to be aware of. If

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Speaker 1: you are eating, for instance, stale pringles potato chips and

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Speaker 1: someone is playing the sounds of some crunchy thing, yes,

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Speaker 1: then your brain will believe that the chips themselves are

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Speaker 1: fresh and not stale brilliant. And this is it's so

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Speaker 1: easy to affect people's sensory input. But here's what happened.

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Speaker 1: When if you read those words that we just intoned,

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Speaker 1: then you may notice that your eyes paused for a

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Speaker 1: fraction of a second on certain words. And this is

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Speaker 1: definitely true for most of us because we put in

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Speaker 1: some phrases that could be considered oppositional right, Democrat, republican,

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Speaker 1: same sex marriage, et cetera. These things can be divisive

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Speaker 1: for some people in the US. And probably what was

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Speaker 1: happening was our brains as we read along. We're trying

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Speaker 1: to connect these things, even though they just exist independently,

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Speaker 1: right as fragments of a sentence. But did your pupils

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Speaker 1: dilate a little bit while you're reading the list at

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Speaker 1: which word you know? Did you blink at a different rate?

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Speaker 1: Did you backtrack to reread any words? And if so,

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Speaker 1: which ones, when and how long? Eye tracking can show

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Speaker 1: you all of this if you are an advertiser or

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Speaker 1: even more disturbingly, a government, this concept has also been

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Speaker 1: called the Holy Grail of advertising. It uses the image

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Speaker 1: from one or more cameras to capture changes in movements

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Speaker 1: and structure of our eyes, and it can measure all

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Speaker 1: of these things with scary or wellyan accuracy. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: where we're at, right now. That's that's right now. It

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Speaker 1: hasn't it hasn't really mainstreamed yet.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's it's still one of those technologies and

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Speaker 3: approaches that you basically have to do it in an

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Speaker 3: environment where you're testing right now, because can you imagine

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Speaker 3: right now, if let's say everyone right now has an

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Speaker 3: Apple phone, some kind of Apple phone, it just rolls

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Speaker 3: out and the Apple lets you know, hey, just so

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Speaker 3: you know, your front facing camera is going to be

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Speaker 3: watching you at all times. Whenever you're looking at your phone,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be tracking exactly what your eyes are doing,

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be taking that data and sending

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Speaker 3: it back to Apple.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they'll keep Siri as the branding or

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Speaker 1: do you think they'll make a new, ostensibly friendly entity

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Speaker 1: for that. It's like, you know, every time you pull

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Speaker 1: up your phone, if you don't have time to type,

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Speaker 1: don't worry. Danny can tell what you're looking at, and

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Speaker 1: Dany'll help you.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Sirih's been looked at as kind of

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Speaker 2: a flop anyway, so maybe it's time to rebrand.

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Speaker 1: Siria has been doing some great work for memes though,

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Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah? Just like the meme economy, all right.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how.

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Speaker 2: I don't know any SIRIU memes. I don't use Siri

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Speaker 2: memes so.

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Speaker 3: Wait, okay, that's I'm trying to think about your question.

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Speaker 3: Sure with uh Siri and what it's going to be,

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Speaker 3: And it definitely, it definitely feels like a Black Mirror episode.

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Speaker 3: We were just talking with our producers out there maya

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Speaker 3: in Seth by the way, Shadow producer Seth it's literally

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Speaker 3: his first day.

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Speaker 2: It's his first day, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And we were talking with him about how Black Mirror

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Speaker 3: this this topic in this episode is Oh, I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to get back to what I was going to talk about.

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Speaker 3: I got lost on Seth there for a second. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So we were just we were discussing how Siri as

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Speaker 3: a thing feels like it will be what the new

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Speaker 3: phone is. It won't be like a phone. It will

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Speaker 3: be a Siri. Yes, yes, some kind of personified thing

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Speaker 3: that exists that you just interact with as another.

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Speaker 1: Being, something approaching AI as a personal assistant.

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Speaker 2: That's what it feels like. But it will just be

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Speaker 2: that the device you have on you at all.

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Speaker 1: Time, and eye tracking would be a fundamental piece of that. Again,

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Speaker 1: this stuff is not a theory. This is not necessarily alarmist.

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Speaker 1: We're working, we're working to stay away from being too

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Speaker 1: too scary about this, But this is where we are

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Speaker 1: right now, and we'll pause for a word from our sponsors. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we'll tell you what's happening pretty soon, sooner than

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, make sure you do not pause. Just listen all

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Speaker 3: the way through this and keep your eyes as open

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Speaker 3: and stare as for as straight as you can forward

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Speaker 3: while listening to the sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Take your take your hands, take your pointer fingers and

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Speaker 1: your thumbs, and hold ratchet open.

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Speaker 2: And let's see where everybody is.

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Speaker 1: I feel silly. No one can see us doing this.

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Speaker 2: We both did it though.

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Speaker 1: We're back. And before we vilify eye tracking, which you know, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I am totally down to do, we should mention that

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Speaker 1: it's not an inherently evil or bad thing. Right. There

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Speaker 1: are some advantages.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so for folks who are into this technology. There

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Speaker 2: is an enormous benefit for people who have disabilities or

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Speaker 2: for example, the creation of immersive games. But how far

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Speaker 2: does it go and what are the implications? These are

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Speaker 2: the answers that may disturb them.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, here's where it gets crazy. You're absolutely right. Okay, First,

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Speaker 1: the argument about disabilities is entirely compelling and valid. If

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Speaker 1: someone is for example, paralyzed below their neck, then they'll

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Speaker 1: rely on mouth movements maybe, or there are already forms

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Speaker 1: of eye tracking I believe that exist in order for

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Speaker 1: them to maybe type with their eyes or something like that.

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Speaker 1: This takes it to another level and it could be

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Speaker 1: a of tremendous and significant benefit to these people. It

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Speaker 1: also is, as you said, Noel, it's probably great for

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Speaker 1: VR games. Oh yeah, I haven't tried it.

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Speaker 3: But it could be incredible instead of having to make right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it would make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: Also, I just I don't plan to. I wear sunglasses

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Speaker 1: all the time, but it's not because the lights are

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Speaker 1: too bright. It's because I already in real life don't

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Speaker 1: want people to know where I'm looking, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I can't handle taking that to a digital realm.

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Speaker 2: It's all good man, Well.

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Speaker 1: Here we are right now. Eye tracking seem like a lovely,

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Speaker 1: nice convenience. But the implications are far reaching and too many,

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Speaker 1: deeply disturbing and deeply concerning at the very least, And

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Speaker 1: we're always really careful to separate our opinions from the facts,

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Speaker 1: so I will say it. We always try to be

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Speaker 1: very explicit about this. It is my opinion that this

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Speaker 1: is a bad thing, and I'm glad to. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: to defend why if because usually the three of us

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Speaker 1: are on the same page. But if there's a disagreement,

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Speaker 1: I am I am glad to. I want to be

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Speaker 1: persuaded that this is overall a good thing. I don't

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Speaker 1: buy it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'm going to go into it as though,

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Speaker 3: just for fundzies that I believe that it's the greatest

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Speaker 3: thing ever and we have to institute it just to

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Speaker 3: make sure that we know everything about you that we

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Speaker 3: need to know, that we need to know, yes, we

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Speaker 3: all of us.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, first things first, as we said, this isn't theoretical,

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Speaker 1: it is happening. There is virtually no government oversight. Zero

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Speaker 1: government oversight.

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Speaker 3: Sounds good, sounds like something the private entities.

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Speaker 1: Want, and that's that's I mean, that's a larger trend

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Speaker 1: we're seeing, you know, private private control or private subversion

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Speaker 1: of things that once existed as legal oversight in the

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Speaker 1: governmental sphere. For example, there used to be the do

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Speaker 1: Not Call list. Do you guys remember that?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I was on it. It's still a thing,

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Speaker 2: right it is, But does it work? And I guess

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Speaker 2: it doesn't, doesn't. I mean, I've had people who you

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Speaker 2: know when you call and it's a human. That's the

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Speaker 2: problem though right now, more more often than not, it's

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Speaker 2: a robot. So you can't really yell at a robot

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Speaker 2: and say, put me on your do not call list?

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly right, And we have to ask ourselves,

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Speaker 1: does the do not call list still exist? I mean,

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Speaker 1: things are these kinds of intrusions are becoming more and

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Speaker 1: more frequent, and more and more invasive, and really private

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Speaker 1: industry use is leading in the charge. Apple has filed

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Speaker 1: a patent for a three dimensional eye tracking user interface.

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Speaker 1: There's a European company called uh Sense I get it, yep,

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Speaker 1: because it's like a it's like an eye. It worked

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Speaker 1: on that. It wants to have eye tracking software baked

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Speaker 1: into smartphones very soon. And as this stuff becomes increasingly

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Speaker 1: deployed in your laptops and your tablets, in your phones

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Speaker 1: and your TVs. The freezer, yeah, smart refrigerator, Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: will open a new front in the debate over privacy.

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Speaker 1: As it stands now, privacy is very much an endangered species.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We talked about it as a good thing. With respect

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Speaker 3: to virtual reality game playing or whatever. However else you're

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Speaker 3: gonna be using VR or AR glasses like the old

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Speaker 3: Google glass or some of the new prototypes that are

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Speaker 3: coming out. Eye tracking will pretty much in the near

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Speaker 3: future enable all these companies to collect your most intimate

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Speaker 3: in I mean, for the most part, subconscious or unconscious

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Speaker 3: responses to the entire world around you, any and all stimuli.

437
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 3: They will have cameras facing at you so long and

438
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: at all times that literally everything you encounter will be recorded.

439
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: I thought we weren't gonna go dystopian this time around.

440
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, unfortunately, this is this is.

441
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: Okay, supposed to be the part of the one who's

442
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: positive for this, right, I'm not gonna have any kind

443
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: of existential breakdown right now about this.

444
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: It's fine, I'll do it.

445
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: We can switch sides if you want.

446
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: Can we switch that? Okay?

447
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: Okay, here, let's see. Let me take a swing at

448
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: this on the positive side. All right, So I tracking technology.

449
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: My position now is that it's great's superb, it's top

450
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: notch because it helps advertising become more effective.

451
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm only going to see the ads that

452
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: really do pertain or interest to me.

453
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: Right, So you're looking at your phone or you're looking

454
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: at your tablet or your laptop, and advertisers receive this

455
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: feedback that say, oh, Matt Frederick's eyes lingered for a

456
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: few seconds on an advertisement, but then he didn't click

457
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: on it. So how does he really feel about toilet

458
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: seats or corvettes? How did Matt's eyes move as he

459
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: looked at an ad? What did he look at first?

460
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: We prioritize that in the future right to bring the

461
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: corvette more in the forefront. Are there certain words, phrases

462
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: or topics that are that are things Matt Frederick loves

463
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: or they're things that are super like turn offs for him,

464
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: Like whenever he sees something that mentions velcro, he's like,

465
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: screw this, burn the system down, I'm going outside.

466
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, or pickled okra, like get out of here, get

467
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: out of here with you.

468
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: Just don't even put that on my phone.

469
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: So then this means that successive ad campaigns will be

470
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: more tailored to you. The argument on paper is probably

471
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: something like they're more organic, or they're integrated, or that wait,

472
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm going back to my real side, hang on, yeah,

473
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: or they're less invasive because it's something that you are

474
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: predispositioned to show an interest in.

475
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well I'm coming back on your side now.

476
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: So when companies are trying to figure out what kinds

477
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 3: of stories we want to hear, about what kinds of

478
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: movies and television should be produced, they can think about

479
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 3: all of these different things in a giant cloud of

480
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: words and phrases that they can mix together and make

481
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 3: me the stories that I want to see.

482
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: That's great.

483
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: And the way they're able to do this is through

484
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: the collection and preservation, the hoarding and be fair to say,

485
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: of the data they collect from the again largely unconscious

486
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: movement of your eyes and largely uncontrollable. So we're talking

487
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: about millions of people's eyeball footprints for lack of a

488
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: better word, and then hundreds, probably thousands of companies in

489
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: the near to mid future who will collect this across

490
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: the digital ecosystem. What will they do with all that information?

491
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: Whatever they want? Yay, that is ultimately the answer. That's probably.

492
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I mean there will be people who want to split

493
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: some hairs over it, but ultimately, whatever they want.

494
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 2: It's like anything else on the internet, right, I mean,

495
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: it's all of the stuff that you pump into Facebook

496
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: knowingly knowing that is what pays for your privilege to

497
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: use Facebook. It's just going to get more and more specific.

498
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: Before you know it, We're gonna have like biometric scanning

499
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: that we're agreeing to allow be processed, and we have

500
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: no way of knowing what the end results are or

501
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: the end user is going to do with that information.

502
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: Anybody that works at mailship already gave this stuff over.

503
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: It's right, Well, that's the thing too, Like for example,

504
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: this is a little bit off the subject, but it's similar.

505
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: Like when marijuana was recreationally legalized for the first time,

506
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: like in Los Angeles, and probably even when it was

507
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: you know, prescription, you had to let them scan your ID.

508
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: You had to let them scan your ID into some database,

509
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: and you don't really have any control over what they

510
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: do with that. It gives you the privilege of buying

511
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: marijuana legally, but you're sort of rolling the dice as

512
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: to is this going to come back and bite me

513
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: in the ass if it's not legal in my state. Like,

514
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of different things.

515
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: What if you get a job at a federal organization,

516
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: you know.

517
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 3: And you know they're doing the same thing with nicotine

518
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 3: sales in Georgia right now, or at least they're proposing,

519
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: and I think it's not officially implace yet, but it's

520
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: being done in some places here in Georgia where if

521
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: you buy any nicotine product, they scan your ID and

522
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: imagine the implications of that. Then it goes back to

523
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 3: your healthcare provider and all of that.

524
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: It's like Flannery O'Connor said, all all that rises must converge, right,

525
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: but now in a really uncool way. Sorry Flannery, yes.

526
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: But also thank it's true for saying that.

527
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: So this is this is true, and that's an excellent point.

528
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: The purpose is to aggregate this and get as close

529
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: to predictive potential as possible. In theory, this stuff would

530
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: be anonymous data they would they would describe as non personal.

531
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: But in practice it's going to be very easy to

532
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: penetrate the anonymity of that because think about it, your

533
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: eye movements will be large unique. They will be largely

534
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: tied to a device that is already identified with you,

535
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: your smartphone right when the the GPS is trackable as well,

536
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: so they know where you are when you're looking at things,

537
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: sort of like uber I believe it was. Uber is

538
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: using some of that same technology to float the idea

539
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: of a system or a function in their software where

540
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: they can not pick up people who have been drinking,

541
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: which to me sort of defeats the purpose of a

542
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: lot of Uber rides. But they can see and they'll say, okay, well,

543
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: this person is calling, this person is calling a ride,

544
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: but their phone says they've been at this place for

545
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, three hours and it's a bar or something.

546
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: And you're just like, I'm not picking up that drunk patron.

547
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: Right or something like that. But again, that's what Uber

548
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: drivers and Uber customers have signed on for them, just

549
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: saying there's a lot that we can get from phones

550
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: and these other similar devices and that you might not suspect.

551
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: And now this is going to this is going to

552
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: kick it up to an entirely new level. I tracking

553
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: from tablets and smartphones is tied to a unique device

554
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: identifier associated with one specific device. So maybe they don't

555
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: know that your full name is Noel Brown or Matt

556
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: Frederick or Mia Cole, but they will know that it is,

557
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, an AT and T iPhone six s or whatever,

558
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: and they'll know where it is and they'll know where

559
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: it is. So because this ties into location tracking information,

560
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: it can also tie to the locations that you show

561
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: up at all the time. Right, most of these studies

562
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: are being on this eye tracking stuff for being conducted

563
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: in closed environments. But the technology is already it's already

564
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: been out there. What we're telling you about is not

565
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: just happening. It already happened. Although rumors that you've been

566
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: reading about regarding Facebook's microphone being on or something like that,

567
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: it's quite possible that you already unknowingly have an app

568
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: or some piece of software on some electronic device that

569
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: is trying to do something like this with your eyes.

570
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

571
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: And you know, just as Ben said, when we come

572
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: back after this quick sponsor break, we're gonna talk about

573
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: how towards the end there, how this is. This is

574
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: literally like one tiny cut, right of the thousand cuts

575
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: that we're giving ourselves that will eventually bring about.

576
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: The gray goo grey goose.

577
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding the don't worry. I'm just I'm just

578
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: saying that the machines will be taking over really soon,

579
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: and eye tracking is just one tiny part.

580
00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: Here's our sponsor, the Singularity, right, That's it.

581
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, nanobots, we're talking about premium vodka here, gents, the

582
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: gray goose, the gray goose, the gray goo, the goose.

583
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: You gotta get that goose, get goosed.

584
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: You're here first. If you've never heard of vodka, okay,

585
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: let that potato juice, right, yeah? Yeah, yeah, it said

586
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: sweet sweet, sweet sweet moscow potato juice. Let's just start

587
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: calling vodka that. Can we call it moscow potato juice?

588
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: Drink responsibly and only if you're over twenty one or

589
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: wherever the legal ages and whatever country you reside.

590
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: If you if you're in Russia and whatever age. Yeah,

591
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: or don't drink alcohol. That's also a thing. Cranberry juice.

592
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: You can just eat the potato. I feel like we

593
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: helped a lot of people with that. I think that's good.

594
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: It should be a shirt.

595
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: Guy.

596
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: I like that you can just eat the potato.

597
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, where did where did your eyes go when

598
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: when we just started talking about potatoes and vodka and

599
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: all that stuff.

600
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: What happened to your eyes? We need to know? Send

601
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: us your your metrics please?

602
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: Oh wow? Oh please feel free to not do that, okay,

603
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: because we don't want to be held responsible. It turns

604
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: out that there are many applications for this eye tracking technology,

605
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: and this is incredibly dicey ethically. Fraud territory. We talked

606
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: about cracking privacy. It's gonna be easier than ever once

607
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: this stuff is out and mainstreamed and it's it's fully

608
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: acknowledged as the new normal. You're just gonna have to

609
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: treat everything you do as though it is a matter

610
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: of public record, at least online. But there's another more

611
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: troubling thing would I would argue, which is the concept

612
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: of pre crime. Remember Minority Report. Yes, yes, this could

613
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: that this could happen. As a matter of fact, it

614
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: is happening. That's the thing that I keep trying to

615
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: emphasize here.

616
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: The gray goo. You're talking about the goo that the

617
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: pre cogs are floating around in. That's it, is it?

618
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: No No, I was talking about the nano essentially, just the.

619
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: Nano nanobots functioning as like the philosopher's stone.

620
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Right.

621
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: It's transformative.

622
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: It can it can create whatever it wants, but it

623
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: can also just cover the earth of it continues to

624
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: replicate without any controller.

625
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: Where's the goop.

626
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: It's like a gray substance, like a gooey substance of nanobots.

627
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: They just it's a thought project. Yeah, it's not real

628
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: yet yet, but we do know that. Oh wait, we

629
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: have to do my When did Minority Report come out?

630
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: Are we passed a.

631
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: Statute ninety nine? Okay, early two thousand, so we're solid.

632
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: But anyway, spoiler alert here be spoilers after the countdown

633
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: three two one.

634
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: Two thousand and two spoilers.

635
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: So so a Minority Report and we've all seen this film.

636
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: In case you haven't seen it, Tom Cruise attempts to

637
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: act as as a member of law enforcement in the

638
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: near future in a pre crime division. And the way

639
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: that the pre crime works is the precognitive triplets that

640
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier. Right now, they have these dreams while

641
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: they float in this pool, and then their dreams are

642
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: inscribed on these little wooden balls, and then Tom Cruise

643
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: reads them and then attempts to stop a crime before

644
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: it occurs. Right now, that's still kind of sci fi,

645
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: but not as sci fi as you might think, all.

646
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: The while manipulating things on kind of a holographic touch screen, yeah,

647
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: which is largely the way we use tablets and stuff. Now,

648
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: that's sort of pre pre cogged. You know our use

649
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: of touch screens.

650
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah, so where are we at in

651
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: real life with pre crime? Yes, it is a thing.

652
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: We have to recognize that although companies and private organizations

653
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: will take the brunt of criticism for this, law enforcement

654
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: and security will have big roles to play, and this

655
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: becomes very dangerous when we talk about more harsh nation states.

656
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Researchers in the US and the UK have mapped the

657
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: correlation between blink rates, pupil dilation, and deceptive statements already, right, yeah,

658
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: this is like a polygraph of polygraph actually worked. So

659
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security has already been developing a

660
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: pre crime program aimed at identifying criminals before they act.

661
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: Yikes, Seth, Yes, Seth, we knew it before you even

662
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: got in the room, buddy.

663
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 3: We're totally joking. Of course, Seth is wonderful, although we

664
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 3: have only met him for the first time today.

665
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: That's true, But I feel a connection. I'm having like

666
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: a cloud outless moment.

667
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I see him out okay, yeah, maya solar

668
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 3: the whole time.

669
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: I can tell. So it's true.

670
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: Though, this DHS program is called in a burst of creativity,

671
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: future attribute screening technology or FAST. Huh that is for you?

672
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks man, You know I'm a real acronym buff.

673
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: So what is fast?

674
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: What does it do?

675
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: It's when things move at an alarming rate of speed.

676
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeses essentially what's going to be happening here very soon.

677
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: But yeah, this program is designed to take images analyze them,

678
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: specifically at airport security.

679
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Checkpoints, which is already being instituted. Those facial scans. Have

680
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: you guys seen them? If you travel fairly often as

681
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: as we do here, then you'll notice they've become sort

682
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: of the way that sessame credit was originally instituted. It

683
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: was opt in and now it's mandatory.

684
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's just to literally scan your face, in

685
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: your eyes and what they're doing as you're going through

686
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: the airport and through the security process and all the

687
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: other things, just to see if are they doing any

688
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 3: kind of weird movement, is there any kind of like

689
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: what's your what is your eye position and your gaze

690
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: at any given time? What are you staring at? Are

691
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: you looking at the security guard cards? Are you looking

692
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 3: at this certain bag? Are you giving off any kind

693
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: of facial expressions that would seem suspicious?

694
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: Are you just are you.

695
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: Why are you breathing so heavy? Were you running?

696
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 2: That's it? Is your heart rate elevated right now? Why

697
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: is your heart rate up so high?

698
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: It's just the dogs that are walking past right now

699
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: checking everybody's bags.

700
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: It's fine.

701
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: So this is a very controversial application of this because yes,

702
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: we could say that this has the potential to prevent

703
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: crime and save lives.

704
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: Right.

705
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: For instance, America has a tremendous, ongoing and tragic problem

706
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: with mass shootings, which occur at a cartoonish and fundamentally

707
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: offensive rate, one being too many.

708
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well so, in theory, like if there were cameras

709
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: set up in the way that could do eye tracking

710
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: in a public space and someone was being what one

711
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: might describe as shifty as the darting their eyes around

712
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: at a weird you know, kind of clear up, that

713
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: might be a flag.

714
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: Right, So that's the question, could this prevent those sorts

715
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: of tragedies. It's weird because it's tough to argue this.

716
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Let's say, for instance, Let's say, for instance, that someone

717
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: snaps and they go to a public place with guns

718
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: or maybe an explosive or something, but they're clocked by

719
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: a camera and then they're arrested. Well, unless they wrote

720
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: down or publicly stated what their intent was, they would

721
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: just have a legal possession of a firearm, you know

722
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so how can we prove what

723
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: would have happened would have happened.

724
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: That's why pre crime doesn't work right, not yet. Yeah,

725
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: it basically amounts to depriving someone of due process.

726
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, yeah, And the technology always

727
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: outpaces the legislation. It's something that we see time and

728
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: time and time again, but the effects go beyond the

729
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: computer screen as well. Researchers are testing a new product

730
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: called Sideways. Sideways can track what products catch your attention

731
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: on the shelves in a local brick and mortar store.

732
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: I have seen this really at a grocery store or something.

733
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's this particular like sideways TM version,

734
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: but where there will be a camera set up in

735
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: a specific aisle where you know, it looks as though

736
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: it could just be for security purposes to check and see.

737
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: Maybe if you're in a grocery store and there's a

738
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 3: security camera right next to some of the medications or something,

739
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: maybe a hot ticket item that's expensive and.

740
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: Small, right, okay, but I swear to you.

741
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: It's got not only is a camera set set up there,

742
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: it's got the display right there, and it says it's

743
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: recording while it's doing it. And again, it could be

744
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: just CCTV, But why would you not take something like

745
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 3: that and then be looking at how people are their

746
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: eyes and how they're looking at things, how they're reacting,

747
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 3: Because as a security officer, you could probably ascertain whether

748
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: something wrong is going on by using the same things

749
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: DHS is doing. Why would Kroger Oh, sorry I said it.

750
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 3: Why would Kroger or Publics are one of these other

751
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 3: big companies not be working with some advertising company to

752
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: have data on that stuff?

753
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah, the overhead investment is just pento beans in

754
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: comparison to you know, the possible profit potential.

755
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: And is that the kind of thing you would have

756
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: to opt out of or could you even opt out

757
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: of it if you didn't even know what's going on? Right?

758
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: Right? Where's the informed consent?

759
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in the store or in the store. But

760
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 2: that could be one of those things where it's like, Okay,

761
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: let's say I go to a music festival and they're

762
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: signs saying, by the very fact that you are putting

763
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: yourself in this environment, you are de facto consenting to

764
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: be filmed, right right, right, which maybe doesn't hold up

765
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: in court.

766
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: I don't know that it does in public, Like if

767
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: we're walking down the street.

768
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 2: Is it public though? If it's a gated things, I

769
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: don't need money to go into you know what I mean?

770
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's up to them then, right.

771
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: I just I just wonder how this would work. Obviously

772
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: we're not there yet, but I think this begs the

773
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: question of, like, how responsible do these companies have to

774
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: be to let people know that this is going on,

775
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: This kind of data collection is going on.

776
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: Cough cough, not very cough. Yeah they don't. I mean

777
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: there's not. Again, there's not too much oversight at least,

778
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: like let's go back to this sideways or stuff like sideways.

779
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: So you walk up to the item. Let's see, you're

780
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: deciding between the store brand we have cereal at home

781
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: type of cereal yeah, or maybe you're gonna splurge and

782
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: get the Kashi. Yeah, get the Kashi. There you go

783
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: like I earned it, I earned this fiber or whatever.

784
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: That's your right. That's how you party. You're that person,

785
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: and the grocery store has this system that will look

786
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: at not just what you ended up getting, but will

787
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the decision process you

788
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: went through, what's called the decision tree that led you

789
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: to Kaushi right, and from that you will probably have

790
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: some sort of linked contact avenue.

791
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: Right.

792
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: You'll get more even if you even if you don't

793
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: sign up for the whatever Kroger app or something, you

794
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: will be able to get targeted ads through Instagram, for instance,

795
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: And eye tracking is going to be huge for Instagram.

796
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: What kind of stuff can people learn about you from

797
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: your eye movements? This is where this is where things

798
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: become very dangerous, possibly fatal, and we'll explain why. So

799
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: it shows not just what you're focusing on, but the

800
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: order of operations that you use when thinking through as

801
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: a visual stimulus, both where you tend to look in general,

802
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: like does this person tend to do read the captions

803
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: first or something nobody does? Or what you tend to

804
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: look at and look for specifically?

805
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: Are you just looking at the price? Is that how

806
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: you're shopping?

807
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 4: Right?

808
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: Are you looking at the name brands?

809
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: Is the appearance of a certain thing or keyword more

810
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: likely to sway you toward buying something is a.

811
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 3: Bright color standing out to the majority of people who

812
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: walk up to this section of the store.

813
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: Does someone just have to slap Tom Cruise's face on

814
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: anything and you will buy it? Yes?

815
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: I thought when you said that, I was just picturing

816
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: somebody slapping Tom Cruise's face when he jumps up on

817
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: the couch on alpre It's like, get off my couch,

818
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise. That's not Were you raised in a barn,

819
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: is not where.

820
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: Your feet belongs, sir, real home, where you raised in

821
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: a land where all the floors are couches.

822
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: That sounds like a lovely place. I actually really twist

823
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: an ankle a lot. You did have stepping between the

824
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: cushions and then you'd go down, at least at least

825
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: because it's when you went down, it's got like.

826
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: An Ottoman vibe, right atom, Yeah, Oh that is it.

827
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: Oh we got there, all right? Well, that that's our show.

828
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: Oh clearly, Wait all.

829
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: Right, but wait, I just there's one last thing here

830
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: that we haven't even talked about yet, and this is

831
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: this blows my mind just by looking at your eyes,

832
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 3: something like sideways, Ben, who I'm speaking to?

833
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: Ben? And he's covering his eyes with his very dark sunglasses.

834
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: Yes, so just by looking at your pupils, these companies

835
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: will be able to tell if you're having an emotional

836
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 3: reaction to anything on that shelf.

837
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Kind of reminds you of the Blade Runner test, right,

838
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: remember that, Like there's a turtle, it's on its back,

839
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: it can't get up.

840
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 2: I have a question, can you guys tell by looking

841
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: at my eyes right now that I'm tripping balls on acid?

842
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: Right now? Wait?

843
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: I cannot good, hold on, I'm seeing a little melting.

844
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: Now, that's that's that's just how I look. Oh is

845
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 2: that my acid? Yeah? Okay, sorry, I have.

846
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: A new pitch. If you're encountering too much Tom Cruise

847
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: in your life, who should have something to leverage all

848
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 1: this Let's leverage all this crazy evasive technology for good

849
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: if you if you are seeing too much of Tom

850
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: Cruise and something, I propose we had the option of

851
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise Control, which will.

852
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: Just like lower his guys all right, at the very least,

853
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: be a plug in for like Google Chrome or something,

854
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, just to strip Tom Cruise from the Internet.

855
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 2: I support that. Actually, that's not nice.

856
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: You know, he's probably the nicest guy.

857
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 2: And he does his own stunts and he's like three

858
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: feet tall, but he's a little impusion, you guys, he's

859
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: completely harm.

860
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: He's bantam and he has a lot of energy that but.

861
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: He's ot like what seventeen At this point, he's basically

862
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 3: a god.

863
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: Yes, he can.

864
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 3: Materialize, dematerialized whatever he needs to do.

865
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: His Thetan's got kicked out, you know years ago.

866
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: He carefully he's probably in the room where he can

867
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: stop your heart with one smoldering glance.

868
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know why I was a million percent

869
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: with you there, but I felt that passionately. No, I

870
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I don't mess around with him anyway.

871
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: But think about that.

872
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: It can it can It can measure your emotional reaction

873
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 3: to anything.

874
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: Right, So it could We're joking about this tom cruise

875
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: control thing, but it could do something like that where

876
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: wherein it says, okay, we're going to remove the following

877
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: things from a normal ad because this will make so

878
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: and so more likely to buy kashi. Right, there's this

879
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: is the really dangerous part.

880
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, here it comes.

881
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, not just the emotional reaction, but multiple studies confirm

882
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: that someone's sexual orientation can be very easily discerned from

883
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: observing their eye movements when exposed to certain images, so

884
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: or at least their overall attraction right right, right, exactly,

885
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: And this seems to be proven across virtually every every

886
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of orientation. One might imagine. It seems that the

887
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: rules for our eyes apply across the board. Yes, this

888
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: is dangerous because in some country trees, it is a

889
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: crime to have certain sexual orientations, right, and.

890
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: In the ideologies of certain groups, ideologies of certain groups,

891
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 3: and you think about power and how it can change

892
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 3: hands and all these things. It's a pretty terrifying technology.

893
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: Right, especially we consider that not too long ago, in

894
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: various countries across the world, for instance, being attracted to

895
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: people the same sex was an automatic prison sentence, if

896
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: not effectively a death sentence.

897
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah right, And that still remains in places across the

898
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 3: world today.

899
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: So imagine that you're flying in to this country, you know,

900
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: going on vacation, name a country, I don't want to

901
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: pick on any specific one. And then you are stopped

902
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: at customs, which is normal. They look at your passport.

903
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: They may have a connection with five eyes or inner

904
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: pull to make sure you're not an international taffy fie

905
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: for whatever, and then they deny you entrgue because of

906
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: some kind of test or facial scan or some data

907
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: they had from you literally just walking in, yeah, walking in,

908
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: or looking at people on Instagram or something, or on

909
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: Facebook or whatever, what have you.

910
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: Or maybe on the displays on the plane that you

911
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: wrote in.

912
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: On insidious I like it. Yeah. Also also maybe just

913
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: data collected from the TV you're watching that is also

914
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: watching you. Yeah, which is the best place to put

915
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: these things, TVs and phones. So this means that someone

916
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: without their informed consent could suffer legal consequences for something

917
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: that is not a crime in their home country, right,

918
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: or something that really isn't other people's business will being honest.

919
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: So this leads us to our conclusion for today, which

920
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: is really opening the door to more questions. At what

921
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: price convenience? You know what I mean? Yeah? What are

922
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: the advantages? Are you for this? Are you against it?

923
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: Or as we say in the South, are you for

924
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: it or again it? If so, why and if you

925
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: are one of those people who accepts the argument that

926
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything

927
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: to hide. If you're one of those peoples on that side,

928
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. We love to

929
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: hear your reasoning why. Maybe this is a necessary evil

930
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: to some of us. Maybe the benefits ultimately outweigh the disadvantages.

931
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: Right either way, no matter how you feel about it,

932
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: if you're one hundred percent on board one hundred percent opposed,

933
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: it's happening. It doesn't matter. It's kind of like not

934
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: liking the weather. The weather doesn't care what you think

935
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: about it, and the companies pursuing this I tracking I

936
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: tracking technology don't really care what you think about it.

937
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: Either.

938
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: The money got too good and the potential is there.

939
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: It's Pandora's jar. The lid has been unscrewed, and that

940
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: lid only that it doesn't go back up.

941
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 3: Well, that's your correct's ben. Well, well, here's what you

942
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 3: may be thinking, because this is certainly a thought I had.

943
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here with a cell phone that has the front,

944
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 3: the front facing camera covered by just a terrible looking

945
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 3: piece of duct tape. But that's just how I roll,

946
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: because I'm, you know, like you listening out there, I'm

947
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 3: aware of some of these things. You may think, Well,

948
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 3: what I'll do is I'll just cover all the cameras

949
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 3: that I'm aware of that I can, and that way

950
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 3: nobody will be able to tell what my eyes are doing,

951
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: at least in my own home, right wherever I reside.

952
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: Because the only other solution is to wear sunglasses all

953
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: the time. And people don't, you know, people think something's up,

954
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: but it does.

955
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: It does look cool on you, Ben, I wish.

956
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: Okay, we all look really cool in sunglasses. I like

957
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: Nole's got some sunglasses with white frames.

958
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: Those are keep them on my little neck. My neck

959
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: piece here nice. When I say neck piece, I mean

960
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 2: my my diamonds, my diamond encrusted icy I see it piece.

961
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: I like it because it's kind of like a tie analog.

962
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: But the way it catches the light too, you know,

963
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: and it really catches the eye and the light well.

964
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: And in this instance, I can see myself in your chest,

965
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 3: which is an odd feeling.

966
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important. It's sort of a power move. Really. Yeah.

967
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: And that you look like a cop with your glasses.

968
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: Oh really, you have like these aviators right.

969
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 3: No, they're just the old school sunglasses.

970
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: Who is that guy? Then? I'm not sure? Okay, I

971
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: think I'm being followed by a police officer. It looks like, yes,

972
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: it's working, finally the dream. But yeah, this stuff, this

973
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: stuff is happening, and it is tempting to think that

974
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: there are more low tech solutions, like hey, guys, stop

975
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: freaking out. Just put some tape over your camera, no problem,

976
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: which obviously we do, but that is not going to

977
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: work in the future.

978
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 2: No right.

979
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: Apple also had a patent application, as well as other

980
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: technology companies, to have display screens that include thousands of

981
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: tiny image sensors built into the screen itself.

982
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you are looking at the screen, it

983
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: would be looking at you.

984
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 2: I was about to say, you look in at the abyss,

985
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 2: the abyss looks back at you. My friends.

986
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 3: Here's the here's the crazy part, this filing, this patent

987
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 3: that Apple filed that for.

988
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 2: Do you know what year it was from?

989
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 4: Noel?

990
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 2: Can you want to take a guess?

991
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 3: No, it was a display nineteen ninety three, two thousand

992
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 3: and four. But seriously, though, think about when the iPhone

993
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 3: came out. Think about like how often we've been using

994
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 3: phones since then and the technology behind it. Apple filed

995
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 3: a pattern for that in two thousand and four.

996
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I never thought I would say this on

997
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: this show. But in Apple's defense, a lot of times

998
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: technology companies just file a patent. Yeah, as kind of

999
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: a way of calling shotgun.

1000
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 2: No totally, I get that, I totally.

1001
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: Or they file patents to press technology or the government

1002
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: does that all which has actually happened. God, we're just

1003
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: we keep saying the government, and that's my specifically the US.

1004
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, heavy g.

1005
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: It is true that there is a there is a

1006
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: law on the books wherein if you file for a

1007
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: patent that is considered to be a threat to national security,

1008
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: you will lose your patent, it will become property of

1009
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: the US government, it will be removed. You automatically get

1010
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: a gag order preventing you from ever speaking about what happened.

1011
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can also happen if the government already has

1012
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: a secret patent for one of those things.

1013
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, secret patents. That's so that's cheating. I get it.

1014
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do.

1015
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: The same thing in their position. But anyhow, anyhow, here

1016
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: we are. This stuff is not being suppressed. This is proliferating,

1017
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: spreading like wildfire to a cell phone near you. So

1018
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: the question is what what next? What to do do

1019
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: we fight against this? Uh, this new way of aggregating data,

1020
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever been reading something online and thought, Wow,

1021
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: it's crazy that I can have my own thought about

1022
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 1: this and it's still be private. The last sacricynct thing

1023
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: in the human experience now is just the mind.

1024
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 2: That's it, you know.

1025
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: I I think what's going to happen, and it's already

1026
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 3: starting to occur a little bit, but I believe companies

1027
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 3: will begin to thrive that specifically are their Their goal

1028
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: in creating products is to subvert this kind of tracking

1029
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 3: and this kind of surveillance. And again you can there

1030
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: are some companies out there that are trying to create

1031
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 3: a wearable tech things that you can put on your body,

1032
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 3: that your face, face paint, different things like that that

1033
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 3: will not allow facial tracking.

1034
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: To occur, like the camouflage that's used on some warships exactly.

1035
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 3: And I think those kinds of companies are going to

1036
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: proliferate and flourish, and you're gonna have ones that there

1037
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: are specific types of glasses that you wear that aren't

1038
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 3: actually you know, they're not to protect you from UV rays.

1039
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 3: It's just to protect whatever light sensing camera to see

1040
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 3: to your eyes. I really think that stuff's gonna proliferate.

1041
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: Maybe disruptive contact lenses. Oh yeah, that being a little easier. Oh,

1042
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think you'll.

1043
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: I mean, is it gonna make my snapchat filters better?

1044
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: Probably? Eh?

1045
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: Well that I'm all for it, all right, And that's.

1046
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: Our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to

1047
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online.

1048
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: Find this at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist

1049
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: on Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok where

1050
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 2: Conspiracy Stuff show.

1051
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: Call our number. It's one eight three three st d WYTK.

1052
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: Leave a voicemail, and if you have more to say,

1053
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you at our good

1054
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1055
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: dot com.

1056
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1057
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1058
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.