Speaker 1: What's going on, buddy?
Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, how you doing fantastic?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So, okay, you got the spotlight on Wednesday, it's my turn.
Speaker 2: Now it is your turn.
Speaker 1: And for some reason, I thought that we were going
Speaker 1: to be sharing your story next week, but no, it's today.
Speaker 2: It's Friday. Yeah, so I want to make some sort
Speaker 2: of a fresh Prince of Ballet rhyme about my life
Speaker 2: real quick, but I don't. I don't have the skill.
Speaker 2: It's all about how my life gott But I can't
Speaker 2: go any further. But yeah, so one thing real quick.
Speaker 2: You mentioned I'm in Florida. That's part of the reason
Speaker 2: we're doing a couple of besties.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's share why it is that you're down there,
Speaker 2: the reason we're in Florida. And I think I've talked
Speaker 2: about this a few times on the show. Had the
Speaker 2: craziest incident over spring break where a tree got hit
Speaker 2: by lightning in our front yard and a massive chunk
Speaker 2: it exploded. A massive chunk fell through our roof, splinters
Speaker 2: all over the place in the yard, my neighbor's yards,
Speaker 2: and so we had to get the tree removal company
Speaker 2: filing insurance claim, and the house is being repaired as
Speaker 2: we speak, and we were hoping to find a place
Speaker 2: close by until we get rent.
Speaker 1: It was extend for the summer, extensive work that meant
Speaker 1: that you were not able to stay in your house
Speaker 1: and actually had to move out and work for a.
Speaker 2: Couple of months. And we're looking for short term rentals
Speaker 2: up here, and it was like, there's nothing, and so
Speaker 2: we used it as an opportunity, you know, make some lemonade,
Speaker 2: to kind of take an extended vacation down to Florida.
Speaker 2: So that's it's been fun. It's been fun.
Speaker 1: It's also part of that interesting Emily's mom being down there.
Speaker 1: So the idea is that she's you know, helping Emily
Speaker 1: out with the kids while you are up here on
Speaker 1: like basically every other week is how we've been doing
Speaker 1: it back in the summer exactly.
Speaker 2: So they're having fun, we're having fun when I'm there.
Speaker 2: But it's also kind of like, yeah, sometimes you just
Speaker 2: gotta think outside the box, and this was a way
Speaker 2: for us to, oh, wait, hey, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: short term rentals down down in this part of Florida,
Speaker 2: so we can easily find something. And yeah, it's been
Speaker 2: it's been kind of a fun experience, but y, it
Speaker 2: does make it a little more difficult on work action.
Speaker 1: But exactly, I got to think you feel a little
Speaker 1: unmoored as well, right like where it doesn't really feel
Speaker 1: like you have a home, home base.
Speaker 2: But ready to be back in there.
Speaker 1: And I suggested too. I was like, well, how about
Speaker 1: just to your computer down there and we can record remotely.
Speaker 1: But you just missed me too much, right to be
Speaker 1: gone for that long? Yeah, we've never recorded, not in
Speaker 1: the same room. That would be it would be different.
Speaker 2: What I mean.
Speaker 1: We do interviews all the time, but it's always you
Speaker 1: and I are sitting here at the table, yeah, sharing
Speaker 1: a beer, Yeah, while we talk about money or interview
Speaker 1: somebody else.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so we aren't flexible for sure, which is nice,
Speaker 2: nice to have. So yeah, but this is my money story.
Speaker 2: It really, honestly has informed so much of why I'm
Speaker 2: passionate about this subject and how this podcast started to
Speaker 2: begin with. So without further ado, let's get to it.
Speaker 2: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matts.
Speaker 2: And that's right. The day has come.
Speaker 1: It is now time for Joel's money origin story.
Speaker 2: That's right, buddy, Today on the show, it's all about me,
Speaker 2: about you this time. Hooray. No, I'm I'm looking forward
Speaker 2: to a chat and kind of diving into some of
Speaker 2: my money backstory. You got to tackle yours last week
Speaker 2: and it was a lot of fun. I learned a
Speaker 2: little bit. I hope our listeners learned a lot. And yeah,
Speaker 2: this week it's my turn in the hot seat.
Speaker 1: Does everything feel backwards? Because I kind of announced the
Speaker 1: actual title of this episode you brought us back from
Speaker 1: the break with the music, feels like left is right
Speaker 1: and up is down exactly, which makes me think of
Speaker 1: those bicycles were like they're engineered so that if you
Speaker 1: steer left, it actually goes right. Have you seen these
Speaker 1: mind cluster where like you literally can't ride it and
Speaker 1: it takes I don't know, like like tons of practice.
Speaker 2: I think it would take a long time to retrain
Speaker 2: your brain.
Speaker 1: Exactly, because once you've been doing something for so long,
Speaker 1: it's it feels really awkward sometimes.
Speaker 2: And just a small thing like this does who introduces
Speaker 2: the podcast episode? Yes, but before we get to my
Speaker 2: money story, and yeah, there's a lot I think we're
Speaker 2: gonna cover. I don't know, I mean, it's really it's
Speaker 2: up to you, so we'll see where it goes. But
Speaker 2: I wanted to mention one thing quickly that one of
Speaker 2: my friends, his name is Brennan. He goes by the
Speaker 2: Moniker budget Dog on Instagram and Twitter.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Literally, I asked him how he got that name, and
Speaker 2: he was like sitting there with his dog while he
Speaker 2: came up with it. So it just like really was
Speaker 2: like like budgets, yeah, exactly. So he's a good dude
Speaker 2: and he's doing a lot of great work with a dawg. Sadly, no,
Speaker 2: yeah he did not, you know, that's how it goes.
Speaker 2: But he mentioned the other day on Twitter, and I
Speaker 2: had not heard of this company before, a company to
Speaker 2: help you roll over your old four oh one K
Speaker 2: and it's called Capitalize. And I looked into this because
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, Brennan knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 2: What is this thing? And it is this cool? It's
Speaker 2: actually Capitalized was named one of Times Top in Mentions
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty one. And it is this site where
Speaker 2: you get to go roll over your four o one
Speaker 2: K for free into an IRA And there are a
Speaker 2: whole lot of reasons to do this, like we could
Speaker 2: get into all the nuance. We're not going to because
Speaker 2: that's not what the this episode is about, but we'll
Speaker 2: link to it in the show notes. And it's just
Speaker 2: one of those cool things. Yeah, if you have an
Speaker 2: old retirement account sitting somewhere else and you want to
Speaker 2: move it to a place with lower fees and better
Speaker 2: fund options, a place like Capitalized is going to help
Speaker 2: you do that. They're going to handle the paperwork, which
Speaker 2: is like, for me, the most annoying part usually, And
Speaker 2: so yeah, it just it seems like this cool new service,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to mention it. Will We'll again put
Speaker 2: a link to the show notes. And yeah, if you
Speaker 2: if you're one of those people who's like dreading doing
Speaker 2: the annoying intricacies of personal finance, something as dorky as
Speaker 2: you know, rolling an account over from a four one
Speaker 2: K into a new IRA very technical, yes, yeah, but
Speaker 2: ultimately not that hard. But Capitalized makes it even easier.
Speaker 1: Also, first rule problems, right, Like, are you over here,
Speaker 1: Joel complaining that you've got too many four one ks
Speaker 1: from previous the war years that you have to keep
Speaker 1: up with? Oh what a hard life that is from
Speaker 1: somebody who's never.
Speaker 2: Had a four weeks. Right, Simplification is a huge part
Speaker 2: of making personal finance is better for people. And if
Speaker 2: this helps you simplify things, combine everything into accounts with
Speaker 2: fewer companies, and also we're you can get it that
Speaker 2: drag of fees at the same time, like it's well, yeah,
Speaker 2: your time. Yeah, if you're with a provider.
Speaker 1: Who, yeah, does not give you the best investing options,
Speaker 1: you know, I will say if you are able to
Speaker 1: maintain those accounts and if the investing options are equivalent
Speaker 1: or similar across the board, there's no magic to combining
Speaker 1: all your accounts into a single giant account. Right, You're
Speaker 1: going to earn the same types of returns if you've
Speaker 1: got one hundred thousand dollars that's spread across three accounts,
Speaker 1: the same returns that you'd see if all of that
Speaker 1: money was just in a singular account. But like you said,
Speaker 1: it's more of like a mental thing and if that
Speaker 1: helps you as an individual, then go for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as they're in the same fun choices, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure. So yeah, we'll link to it in the
Speaker 2: show notes. But Matt, let's mention the beer that we're
Speaker 2: having on this episode. We're drinking a beer called Woodland Pursuit.
Speaker 2: It's a new England I pa from the folks at
Speaker 2: Humble Forager, and I'm looking forward to drinking this one
Speaker 2: while we share my money to origin story.
Speaker 1: Tonight's right, and I picked this one up especially for you,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about why.
Speaker 2: I guess at the end of the episode sounds good.
Speaker 1: Well, like last Wednesday's episode, it is it's time for
Speaker 1: you listeners to really get to know us on a
Speaker 1: deeper level. Last week, yeah, you got to hear my
Speaker 1: money story and the experiences that impacted how it is
Speaker 1: that I view money. And now it's Joel's turn. Hailing
Speaker 1: from the Pacific Northwest, weighing in a like a one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty pounds.
Speaker 2: Maybe nine okay nine also the very.
Speaker 1: You're the tallest half Norwegians. But yeah, you were raised
Speaker 1: here in the South. My best friend, Joel lars Guard,
Speaker 1: he might might have been the cheapest guy I've ever met,
Speaker 1: which is why I think we immediately hit it off
Speaker 1: when we first met around a decade ago. I think
Speaker 1: it also helps a ton our wives hit off as well. True,
Speaker 1: but I had never met anyone cheaper than me in
Speaker 1: that saying a lot, And it's no wonder that we
Speaker 1: were destined to start a personal finance podcast together. There
Speaker 1: truly is so much that I already know about you.
Speaker 1: But like any good story, you start at the beginning.
Speaker 1: And I realized that I don't know what your first
Speaker 1: money memory is, and so, yeah, do you have a
Speaker 1: clear moment when you grasp the concept of money? Also,
Speaker 1: did you always prefer the Krooklum signature pizza even as
Speaker 1: a toddler or was that a more of an acquired taste.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that was later in life. Really, that was
Speaker 2: a more more recent occurrence. And I will say, actually
Speaker 2: I talked about this recently on Twitter with somebody how
Speaker 2: Little Caesars raised the prices of their pizza, that inflation
Speaker 2: made inflation robbers meeting in the road. But life's too
Speaker 2: short to really eat cheap pizza too frequently, so usually
Speaker 2: spring forth the nicer stuff. But yeah, I guess when
Speaker 2: it comes to first money memories, probably my first money
Speaker 2: memory is my parents had like this, this cardboard cut
Speaker 2: out with like little dimes and nickels and pennies and dollars.
Speaker 2: Did you ever have one of those where it's like
Speaker 2: it's like a little learning way to learn about money.
Speaker 2: And so I remember seeing that, and it was this
Speaker 2: tangible thing where I got to group them and do
Speaker 2: addition of attraction and kind of get to figure out
Speaker 2: how money works.
Speaker 1: Okay, I do remember doing that. In elementary school, I
Speaker 1: had like.
Speaker 2: The same cardboard like real to learn time and stuff.
Speaker 1: So your parents like stole it from the elementary exactly,
Speaker 1: your older sister probably ganked it, and then you got
Speaker 1: to take a look at it.
Speaker 2: Sho was a bad one, you know. I learned a
Speaker 2: lot from that. So yeah, I think that was probably
Speaker 2: the most early memories I have is kind of playing
Speaker 2: with those physical cardboard cutout of money. But but then
Speaker 2: I think my kids had gi Joe's Joel.
Speaker 1: Had dollar bills on his stelf all lined up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not necessarily, No, I was not like roomed to
Speaker 2: be some sort of personal finance nerd. But I think
Speaker 2: the other thing that sticks out in my mind when
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about the earliest memories I have of like
Speaker 2: actual money was when my parents and I had to
Speaker 2: have conversations about in particularly the shoes that I wanted
Speaker 2: to buy. I was like super into the fancy basketball
Speaker 2: shoes of the Day, the Scottie Pippens, the Michael Jordan's,
Speaker 2: all the all the good stuff that Charles Barkley's. They
Speaker 2: all had great shoes. Man, speaking of investments, if only
Speaker 2: you had gotten a couple of pairs of those and
Speaker 2: never worn them, yes, the box, I mean, you'd be
Speaker 2: a multi millionaire thousands at least, right, Yeah, so that's
Speaker 2: a good point. But yeah, having there was always a
Speaker 2: conversation between my parents and I because they said, listen,
Speaker 2: here's a limit on what we're willing to spend four
Speaker 2: shoes for you. If you want, we can get you
Speaker 2: these like rebox and you're gonna and you can wear those.
Speaker 2: But if you want those nicer shoes, you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to bring some of your own birthday or Christmas money
Speaker 2: to the table in order to make it happen. And
Speaker 2: that was the first time I think I realized trade
Speaker 2: offs and how important trade offs are when we're talking
Speaker 2: about personal finances. And sometimes occasionally I did opt for
Speaker 2: the fancy shoes. I put my money where my mouth
Speaker 2: was and I was like, this is worth it. And
Speaker 2: I still remember that Paris Scottie phupans, and they were
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 1: They felt so good on your feet.
Speaker 2: They were so good. But most of the time I
Speaker 2: opted to say, I don't know, I'm gonna get the
Speaker 2: free shoes that mom and dad are gonna buy me.
Speaker 2: But that's one of those I think first memories I
Speaker 2: had where it was like, I have a decision and
Speaker 2: I have money that I can choose whether or not
Speaker 2: this is worth it or not to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean I love what your parents did
Speaker 1: there as well, because essentially what they're doing is matching you, right,
Speaker 1: like they're kind of meeting you. I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how much they're willing to bring to the table, but
Speaker 1: the ability for them to kind of incentivize you to
Speaker 1: alter your spending, your behavior a little bit, because you
Speaker 1: could have taken out money and been like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: really want those shoes, and then you go blow the
Speaker 1: rest of the money on your Sega Dreamcast or whatever.
Speaker 1: I remember you buying from the yard zale or something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I love when parents are able to
Speaker 1: mimic the different types of patterns and behaviors that were
Speaker 1: going to encounter in real life, right, Yeah, And so this,
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that your parents did that, and
Speaker 1: I look forward to being able to do that with
Speaker 1: you know, with my kids. I'm sure you're looking forward
Speaker 1: to doing the same as our kids get older. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so kind of moving along.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is really impressive
Speaker 1: about you is the number of different, like different jobs
Speaker 1: that I've heard you had while you're in high school.
Speaker 2: Like I only worked at the local golf course, but
Speaker 2: you had a quite varied work history. So yeah, tell
Speaker 2: us about that, and specifically, did you have a favorite
Speaker 2: job that you held? Okay, so yeah, I had a
Speaker 2: bunch of different jobs growing up, and some of them
Speaker 2: before the age where you're legally allowed to work just
Speaker 2: stuff in the neighborhood, like mowing lawns, right and that
Speaker 2: it was like literally my first introduction to making my
Speaker 2: own money, and that was empowering. And my dad was
Speaker 2: just a big help in helping me get that business
Speaker 2: off the ground, Like had just a few yards in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, and he was always willing to help me
Speaker 2: on a Saturday, which is huge. Like he wasn't just like,
Speaker 2: all right, go pound the pavement, son, he was like,
Speaker 2: I know, he was dead tired from working all week,
Speaker 2: and he still came with me to mow those lines,
Speaker 2: which I yeah, major props to my pops. But yeah. Then,
Speaker 2: at at fourteen, the earliest age you could start working
Speaker 2: in the state of Georgia, I started working at Chick
Speaker 2: fil A, and right across the street from my high
Speaker 2: school was the easiest place to get to, so I
Speaker 2: could walk straight across and work for three hours before
Speaker 2: I would go home for the evening. And I still
Speaker 2: remember my starting wage five dollars and fifteen cents an hour,
Speaker 2: which was the bare minimum you were allowed to.
Speaker 1: Get paid, the far cry from what they're paying today.
Speaker 2: But I think my favorite job overall in those years between,
Speaker 2: like you know, growing up and then getting to college
Speaker 2: was working at the Eckerd Photo Lab. Okay, that was
Speaker 2: just like a fun job where I was like getting
Speaker 2: to interact with people who had just gone on vacation
Speaker 2: and they turned in their phone. And do people even
Speaker 2: still do that anymore? I don't think. So there's not
Speaker 2: like a photo person.
Speaker 1: Well they do. I mean they've got the printers, but
Speaker 1: you just sent in. They don't bring in the roles
Speaker 1: of film exactly. They send it in from their phone.
Speaker 2: But me, I was like manning the machine and changing
Speaker 2: changing tones. I got like an old school version of photoshop,
Speaker 2: and then I would get to talk to people about
Speaker 2: the photos I.
Speaker 1: Had seen because you'd seen it and you kind of
Speaker 1: know who's about to walk into exactly because you've been
Speaker 1: staring at pictures of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, hey, Rome looked like it was fun.
Speaker 2: Huh how about it?
Speaker 1: They're like, dude, stop being a cream So that was a.
Speaker 2: Fun trying not to be the Robin Williams from One
Speaker 2: Hour Photos.
Speaker 1: But I mean, so you just enjoyed that. That was
Speaker 1: just a I mean, they sounded like it was fun
Speaker 1: from a social standpoint, and knowing you, obviously that doesn't
Speaker 1: surprise me at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just got The way I got to interact
Speaker 2: with people was probably the most fun part of that.
Speaker 1: Did you did you ever have like a really amazing
Speaker 1: boss or manager who? I don't know. I feel that
Speaker 1: in the past when I look back to some of
Speaker 1: the different folks who influenced me, they were always really
Speaker 1: good teachers. And so for me, for whatever reason, that's
Speaker 1: something that would stand out to me is the ability
Speaker 1: to not just do the job and get some stuff done,
Speaker 1: but the ability to grow as an individual and to learn.
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you had some different jobs where you
Speaker 1: had an individual that stood out to you.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've always been lucky to work for
Speaker 2: awesome people for the most part. Like, there are a
Speaker 2: couple of bosses I can pull back to and be like,
Speaker 2: not my favorite, but for the most part, they were great, honestly,
Speaker 2: And it was one of those good situations where when
Speaker 2: you're fourteen fifteen and you're completely immature, you need someone
Speaker 2: who's going to give you like a whole lot of
Speaker 2: grace as they're kind of helping you grow up into
Speaker 2: an adult. And that was just a great learning experience
Speaker 2: for me having a job early on. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: think the managers there were super helpful and it was
Speaker 2: a great experience.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Probably my favorite boss was at the radio station I
Speaker 2: worked at for like fourteen fifteen years, and just because
Speaker 2: he was such an encourager and he was such a
Speaker 2: believer in your talent and abilities, and he was always
Speaker 2: encouraging not just me, everybody in the building about what
Speaker 2: they could do. And I remember reading something actually from
Speaker 2: a friend recently who she she is a writer and
Speaker 2: she writes all the time, and she points back to
Speaker 2: pointing back recently to this high school teacher who told
Speaker 2: her you're a great writer and like you can do this,
Speaker 2: and net still is in her mind, motivating her to
Speaker 2: write to this day, and I think interesting, I look
Speaker 2: back to some of those conversations when I was working
Speaker 2: at the radio station and my boss saying like, you
Speaker 2: got this, You've got talent, and like you need to
Speaker 2: keep working at this, but like, I like what you're doing,
Speaker 2: and that goes a long way in helping foster someone's career.
Speaker 2: And if you can be that person, I think to
Speaker 2: tell somebody that they're on the right path or that
Speaker 2: you like what they're doing, you never know how far
Speaker 2: those words of encouragement are going to go.
Speaker 1: That's funny. Yeah, as you were saying that about your
Speaker 1: friend who was a writer, it made me think back
Speaker 1: to when I was in college. One of my professor
Speaker 1: I was taking advertising classes. I remember her specifically talking
Speaker 1: about photography because essentially we had to come up with
Speaker 1: our own little campaign and she's like, hey, this is
Speaker 1: a pretty great concept. You know, the headline, like the
Speaker 1: copy is great, but these images are awesome. She's like,
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about photography? And thinking back, I
Speaker 1: realized that maybe that may have been what kind of
Speaker 1: pointed me in the direction of focusing more on photography.
Speaker 1: As I got into graphic design, it always had a
Speaker 1: more photographic lean to it, and then obviously it got
Speaker 1: into photography as well. And we are actually going to
Speaker 1: talk more about, you know, your history there at the
Speaker 1: radio station. I think I'm going to have a question
Speaker 1: maybe about the same boss who you mentioned perhaps, But
Speaker 1: before we get to that though, like before we get
Speaker 1: to that stage of your life, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like here on the show, you've only really just touched
Speaker 1: on the fact that, like, it wasn't all smooth sailing
Speaker 1: at home as a kid when it came to money.
Speaker 1: Do you want to share you know, what I've heard
Speaker 1: you described before as perhaps your most pivotal money moment.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean I think this is really when,
Speaker 2: if there is a inflection point in my personal finance trajectory,
Speaker 2: it was growing up age basically twelve or thirteen, when
Speaker 2: my parents ended up filing for bankruptcy. And at the
Speaker 2: same time after that, the our car got repossessed, and
Speaker 2: it was one of the things where we knew it
Speaker 2: was going to happen, we just didn't know when. And
Speaker 2: one day we were expecting it to happen, and it
Speaker 2: didn't happen, didn't happen, and then it was gone one morning.
Speaker 2: And it was one of those things where I just
Speaker 2: remember as a kid it was kind of like looming
Speaker 2: over our heads and at the same time it was
Speaker 2: money was a constant source of friction in the house.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think I was also at this
Speaker 2: important age where it left this indelible mark. I mean
Speaker 2: where it's like my younger sister, she was a little
Speaker 2: bit younger than me, maybe couldn't not quite old enough
Speaker 2: to realize exactly what was going on. My older sister
Speaker 2: was in high school, she was like dating and working,
Speaker 2: and I was just at this like hyper impressionable age
Speaker 2: where that left a major mark and I think has
Speaker 2: probably still contributed to how how I view money today
Speaker 2: and just how maybe how intentional I am with it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was the point. It was that it
Speaker 2: was that age, and it was those things happening in
Speaker 2: my family's life that made me say, like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I want to be good with money. You know, you
Speaker 2: know what, I want to be good enough with money
Speaker 2: where I don't ever have to argue about money with
Speaker 2: my spouse and it's not that you know, Emily and
Speaker 2: I don't still have money disagreements from time to time,
Speaker 2: but it's one of those things where we don't want
Speaker 2: to have get to the point where we're not sure
Speaker 2: if we're going to have enough, and that leads to
Speaker 2: conflict sure or us having to do things that we
Speaker 2: don't want to do in order just to secure more money.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's definitely the probably the most pivotal point
Speaker 2: in my life when it comes to how I think,
Speaker 2: in view and do money in personal finance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we always are going to have disagreements
Speaker 1: oftentimes with our partners when it comes to money, but
Speaker 1: you just don't necessarily want all of your conversations to
Speaker 1: be negative, right, Like, hopefully you are in a position
Speaker 1: where you can sit down and when you talk about money,
Speaker 1: it's it's a very good conversation. It's this thing that
Speaker 1: where maybe you're cracking out, you know, a craft beer
Speaker 1: or a bottle of line. You're having this meeting with
Speaker 1: your partner because you are wanting to look ahead at
Speaker 1: the different goals that you share or that you're you
Speaker 1: know that might be looming on the horizon. But you know, I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to fully understand and you know
Speaker 1: the impact of an event like that, like as we're
Speaker 1: growing up, even you know, when decades have passed and
Speaker 1: we have the benefit of hindsight, do you ever wonder, like,
Speaker 1: what would have happened if that had never happened. Do
Speaker 1: you think that maybe instead you would have been kind
Speaker 1: of like spendthrift Joel, Like there would have been this
Speaker 1: alter ego.
Speaker 2: Honestly, Zarro Joel, Probably, I think so. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I do think so. I mean, I don't really think
Speaker 2: about it like that very often, but I do think
Speaker 2: that left such a mark that I am a different
Speaker 2: person because it'd be a sneakerhead, and I don't think, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe I would be one of those guys spending
Speaker 2: all his money on fancy sneakers.
Speaker 1: You spend more on shoes than I do.
Speaker 2: Yes, But I also I don't think of it as
Speaker 2: this negative experience that I would go back and change,
Speaker 2: even though at the time it was difficult. I feel
Speaker 2: like what it's led to has been something really good.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I don't think of it as something
Speaker 2: that I want to go back in a race. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, that doesn't that doesn't mean it
Speaker 2: was easy while it was happening.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's not something that you would wish that you're
Speaker 1: planning to happen to your family, to your kids. All Right,
Speaker 1: So I feel like we've kind of covered young Joel.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to a slightly older Joel. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get to Joel as he entered adulthood. I've got several
Speaker 1: other questions, including some a question about college, and will
Speaker 1: actually get to that right after this break.
Speaker 2: All right, so we are back.
Speaker 1: We're doing a special deep dive episode on Joel's money
Speaker 1: origin story. Joel, you just shared the experience of having
Speaker 1: a family car repossessed. But ultimately that wasn't a decision
Speaker 1: that you yourself made, right, it happened to you. You
Speaker 1: were kind of more in the passenger seat. Not literally,
Speaker 1: I was not the one who bought the car exactly you.
Speaker 1: I did not do the finance. It was you were
Speaker 1: more in a passive position. I guess is what I'm
Speaker 1: getting out here. But while you were in college, you
Speaker 1: actively made a decision that ended up having a lasting
Speaker 1: impact on your finances. Can you tell us about that? Sure?
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean so while I was in college, the
Speaker 2: first two years. I ended up going to like a
Speaker 2: private school in South Carolina, and I think it was
Speaker 2: the best place for me at the time for the
Speaker 2: first two years of school. But it was one of
Speaker 2: those things where I realized halfway through, wait a second,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm taking on debt to go to the school
Speaker 2: I got. Fortunately, I got a lot of great scholarships,
Speaker 2: but still I was at two years into college. A
Speaker 2: private school. Yeah, costs a lot of money. I had
Speaker 2: twelve grand and student debt. And probably a lot of
Speaker 2: people just laughed when they heard that because they're like,
Speaker 2: that is nothing that that's like basically Grand Boddy. Sure,
Speaker 2: that's like books for me exactly, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people would feel that way, and especially right now, I
Speaker 2: get it, like the price of education has skyrocketed, of
Speaker 2: course in the last what fifteen eighteen years, but it's
Speaker 2: at the same time for me, I said, why why
Speaker 2: am I here? And can I accomplish the same goal
Speaker 2: what I want? Can I get what I want at
Speaker 2: another school where maybe it's free. And the cool thing
Speaker 2: about the state of Georgia and a lot of other
Speaker 2: states have something similar than this thing called the Hope Scholarship,
Speaker 2: where if you had over a three point oh GPA
Speaker 2: in high school, you were able to go to college
Speaker 2: for free in state I mean the in state universities,
Speaker 2: and so I transferred back and ended up getting my
Speaker 2: last two years of education for free because of that.
Speaker 2: And I was living at home and working at the
Speaker 2: same time. So it was one of those things where I'm, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm really glad I made that choice. Not adding more
Speaker 2: student loan pain to that bucket load of debt is
Speaker 2: is something I'm happy I avoided totally.
Speaker 1: And let's be honest too, like there's a good chance
Speaker 1: of you not getting out in two more years. You
Speaker 1: probably would have been on that five year plan off
Speaker 1: of that private school.
Speaker 2: No, it's interesting. Actually switching back was one of those
Speaker 2: things where I lost a couple of credits and so
Speaker 2: I really I had to work even harder, but I'd
Speaker 2: already been taking like eighteen nineteen hours and so it
Speaker 2: kind of put me back on the track to like
Speaker 2: you still got to take sixteen seventeen hours every semester.
Speaker 2: A couple of them didn't transfer, but it was still
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 1: Gotcha and got it well, you know, Like what I
Speaker 1: really appreciate though, is the fact that like you were
Speaker 1: willing to make this serious change to your life, like
Speaker 1: once you realize that things weren't painting out. Because I
Speaker 1: believe that that most college students in your position, I
Speaker 1: think they would have just stuck around and wrote it
Speaker 1: out while racking up that debt. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: what I would have done, Like because at that point
Speaker 1: in your life, you're surrounded by friends. You see sort
Speaker 1: of the trajectory of everyone. And for me, like, at
Speaker 1: one point, I thought about changing majors, and I knew
Speaker 1: that that was going to mean an additional year or two,
Speaker 1: and I thought, no way, Like, I can't, I can't
Speaker 1: do that. A I didn't want to. I didn't have
Speaker 1: the money on hand because I was running out of scholarship.
Speaker 1: But be all, my friends were graduating, and so for me,
Speaker 1: there was almost like this social pressure. And that's actually
Speaker 1: kind of surprising, I guess, because you are a very
Speaker 1: social dude. But even still you're able to combat that.
Speaker 1: You were able to fight those pressures. Well, a lot
Speaker 1: of my friends actually were seniors that year when I
Speaker 1: was graduating, so they were.
Speaker 2: Leaving, and I was like, I guess it's I mean,
Speaker 2: why not, because yeah, when your friend base is leaving.
Speaker 2: You're right, that time kind of helps make that decision
Speaker 2: a little bit easier, got it. But but I will say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that you're Yeah, you can't credit that fully.
Speaker 2: You're able to piggyback off of the fact.
Speaker 1: That you had a bunch of friends who are graduating. Yep,
Speaker 1: You're like, they're graduating, Time for me to get out
Speaker 1: of here. It's going to peace out as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, And that was definitely that was definitely part
Speaker 1: of it and made that decision easier. Yes, I think
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that, like you said, a
Speaker 1: lot of high school students all have young adults going
Speaker 1: into college first couple of years, they're oblivious to the
Speaker 1: student loan deb that they might be taking it on.
Speaker 1: I think they're becoming less oblivious. I think it's become
Speaker 1: such a problem that they can't avoid knowing what's happening
Speaker 1: to them. But for a long time, a lot of
Speaker 1: people in just a little bit younger than we are,
Speaker 1: have been kind of fed the belief that a college
Speaker 1: education at whatever cost is going to be worth it.
Speaker 1: And now people are being forced to challenge that assumption
Speaker 1: a little bit more. And I think it's a good thing,
Speaker 1: because it's not that we think college is a bad thing.
Speaker 1: Like I would go over and do it again for myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you have to weigh the
Speaker 1: risk in the reward and you have to say, do
Speaker 1: it in a responsible manner because if you don't, it's
Speaker 1: not a good decision. And you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that whatever education you're receiving is going to be put
Speaker 1: to good use in that the debt, the potential debtload
Speaker 1: that you're taking on, that you minimize it, and that
Speaker 1: it propels you.
Speaker 2: To hire earnings.
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, and you also share that you're saving money
Speaker 1: by living at home. I think that is such an
Speaker 1: underrated way to do college, right because, like you said,
Speaker 1: those first two years undergrads are oblivious. I mean literally
Speaker 1: my first two years I changed schools, like within the
Speaker 1: college both. I mean I did it literally. I think
Speaker 1: every single year I was in college, I was in
Speaker 1: a different school because I thought, oh, first I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be a science major. Oh no, that I don't like chemistry.
Speaker 1: That's not working out, and so now I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: in the business school. I'm in terry. And then you
Speaker 1: bounce around and I mean this first two years. I
Speaker 1: you know, granted some of those credits did count, but
Speaker 1: you have no idea what you're doing.
Speaker 2: That's what those first two years are for those some
Speaker 2: of that trial and error, absolutely, but figuring out what
Speaker 2: you're interesting.
Speaker 1: What better way to experience some of that trial and
Speaker 1: error than to you'd be paying very little money by
Speaker 1: going to a local community college. Yes, we are huge
Speaker 1: proponents of folks doing that. So, yeah, you graduated, you
Speaker 1: kind of you know, started to grow up a little bit,
Speaker 1: move on with your life before we started our own
Speaker 1: little company here, you know, with this podcast, like I
Speaker 1: pictured you as what i'd call like a company man,
Speaker 1: not that you had that's good. Well, you didn't have
Speaker 1: to wear like a suit or anything, right, But.
Speaker 2: That's actually part of the reason and a terrible reason.
Speaker 2: But why I chose to go work in radio was
Speaker 2: because you could wear jeans and flip flops, and literally
Speaker 2: that was half of my reasons. Really, you don't have
Speaker 2: to dress up to do that.
Speaker 1: I feel, Yeah, Well, a lifestyle and what it feels
Speaker 1: like to go work for a company that have that
Speaker 1: has a lot of weight when it comes to the decisions.
Speaker 1: I mean literally, when I was looking to apply to
Speaker 1: different advertising agencies like that was also something I kept
Speaker 1: in mind as well, because actually I can't remember if
Speaker 1: mad Men was out at that point, but even still
Speaker 1: the modern advertising agency, it was still kind of like
Speaker 1: a cooler place to work. They didn't drink an old
Speaker 1: fashion on the job. I'm out of here, than like
Speaker 1: an accounting firm or something like that. But the ability
Speaker 1: to work in a creative department and just wear jeans
Speaker 1: and a hoodie was definitely something that was appealing to me.
Speaker 1: And so it's not fancy in that way, but your
Speaker 1: job specifically, like you had nice company benefits like a
Speaker 1: four to one K. I just joked earlier about how
Speaker 1: that's not something I ever had access to, but you did.
Speaker 1: You had a match. I've never had anything like that
Speaker 1: up until very recently here with our company. So my
Speaker 1: question for you, did you start investing? Did you start
Speaker 1: maxing out that four one k right away? Like? How
Speaker 1: did you know that that was a smart move? To Mick,
Speaker 1: how did you learn what to do? Sure?
Speaker 2: Yet, No, I did not start maxing out Okay, way
Speaker 2: I was, I was, really I knew.
Speaker 1: Heard it folks. When Joel first got his first job
Speaker 1: he was not taking advantage of the company mesas.
Speaker 2: No, well, no, I was getting the match. Okay, that
Speaker 2: was the one thing I knew not to screw up on.
Speaker 2: There you go, but only because literally the job that
Speaker 2: my first job that I got, or not my first job,
Speaker 2: but the second job that I got that I was
Speaker 2: at for fourteen fifteen years, was we talked a lot
Speaker 2: about personal finance. That was that we worked on a
Speaker 2: consumer advice radio show, and so I knew enough to
Speaker 2: not miss out on the company match, but I had
Speaker 2: still not yet. My ears had not been perked up
Speaker 2: to the ideas of financial independence and the idea of like, well, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get if I saved ten percent for forty
Speaker 2: five years of my life, then I'll be able to retire.
Speaker 2: That was still kind of the way I was thinking
Speaker 2: at that point in life.
Speaker 1: Kind of had that old school mindset.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was saying, still plus my salary was
Speaker 2: minus at the time, so maxing and out was I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been.
Speaker 1: Able to live. It wasn't an option, No, it was
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: Like, not even closer an option. So getting the match
Speaker 2: was enough of a sacrifice for me to build a
Speaker 2: make but later on, as like my I got more
Speaker 2: in tune with what money can do if it's invested
Speaker 2: early enough, I did begin to pour more and more
Speaker 2: into my four one K, max out my roth Hera,
Speaker 2: then eventually max out my four one K. And so
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where I was like, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: but I wish somebody had challenged me to do that sooner,
Speaker 2: had said, you know what, the match is great, but
Speaker 2: you can do more. And so I think that's why
Speaker 2: I get excited, especially when we hear from younger how
Speaker 2: money listeners and then like I'm doing it already, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, if only you have Yeah, twenty three,
Speaker 2: twenty four, I had that same information, that same challenge,
Speaker 2: that same knowledge that you have, like I, you know,
Speaker 2: and and and part of it really is not just
Speaker 2: I can't blame it on a lack of knowledge. It
Speaker 2: really was just a lack of intentionality and and so yeah,
Speaker 2: the fact that they have all those things working together,
Speaker 2: I'm super impressed.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I will say just reaching financial independence,
Speaker 1: it had a branding problem basically a right, and in
Speaker 1: the past ten years it really has come a long
Speaker 1: way as being you know as folk seeing retirement as
Speaker 1: something that you do once you hit fifteen nine and
Speaker 1: a half or sixty five years old, where you sit
Speaker 1: on the you know, the rocker on the front porch,
Speaker 1: you got the gold watch, you're sitting there, you no
Speaker 1: longer have to work. That has always been the view
Speaker 1: typically of retirement, of reaching a point of financial freedom.
Speaker 1: But over the past ten years we have seen a
Speaker 1: dramatic shift and what it means to be financially independent.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean waiting until you're really old to completely
Speaker 1: pull the plug on working. It can mean gradually, over time,
Speaker 1: making that transition, taking on different jobs that you want,
Speaker 1: just the ability to have options.
Speaker 2: Stocking away enough so you can quit your day job
Speaker 2: and go do your own thing and start your own business.
Speaker 2: I mean that. Yeah, I think you're right. I think
Speaker 2: the nuance in this space has grown dramatically, and so
Speaker 2: many great voices have come up to say like, no,
Speaker 2: you can go this path, or you can go this path,
Speaker 2: and so it's opened up people's eyes to say, oh, wait,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of different directions I can go in.
Speaker 2: It's not just the one path that has kind of
Speaker 2: been the traditional Yeah, exactly, Yeah, the traditional path exactly. Okay,
Speaker 2: So real quick, once you got that first decent paying job,
Speaker 2: what were you splurging on before Kraft Beer?
Speaker 1: Right? So on every interview we bring guests on and
Speaker 1: we ask them what their craft beer equivalent is. What
Speaker 1: was your craft beer equivalent before Craft?
Speaker 2: I think it was probably baseball games. I was going
Speaker 2: to Braves games, okay, Yeah, And it's one of those
Speaker 2: things where again I didn't I didn't have much money,
Speaker 2: especially in those those early working gears, and I was
Speaker 2: able to score Brave tickets for super cheap because they
Speaker 2: played downtown. Almost nobody went to the games. I could
Speaker 2: ride my bike over there, yeah, and I would go
Speaker 2: two games and get out of there for five bucks
Speaker 2: or ten bucks if I bought some food. I mean,
Speaker 2: there was just all these ways to go to Braves
Speaker 2: games for super cheap that don't exist now. And so
Speaker 2: I feel like it's like it. But you weren't from
Speaker 2: an old time.
Speaker 1: Right right, So so you weren't spending money on it?
Speaker 2: Was there something I was going consistently?
Speaker 1: All right? So?
Speaker 2: And so I would go to all purchase done consistently. Yeah,
Speaker 2: ads up. I would go twenty twenty five games a year, wow.
Speaker 2: And those were Those were good old days. Now I
Speaker 2: make it to one, maybe two. I didn't make it
Speaker 2: to the World Series, of course, like I told.
Speaker 1: Everybody, that's right, and you didn't. I guess we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about this yet. On the show you Got, You Got,
Speaker 1: You scored yourself some of that World Series swag.
Speaker 2: I got a shirt for merch for Christmas, Yes, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that was that was kind of what I viewed as
Speaker 2: my sports for the time. I was like, I'm all,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go to as many Braids games as I want.
Speaker 1: You're the Brais game guy. Yep, yeah, totally. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you've kind of alluded to this. Many folks know Clark Howard.
Speaker 1: You know, he was a nationally syndicated consumer advocate radio host,
Speaker 1: and like you said, he talks a lot about personal finance.
Speaker 1: And so I'm assuming you learned a ton while working
Speaker 1: on a show. There's a lot of different concepts, a
Speaker 1: lot of different principles that I'm sure you heard reiterated
Speaker 1: on the show constantly. But so my question for you, though,
Speaker 1: is like, do you have any specific lessons that you learned,
Speaker 1: like not necessarily from the show, but just from being
Speaker 1: around Clark Howard himself that you did different lessons that
Speaker 1: you picked up from observing him in real life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And by the way, the person
Speaker 2: I was talking about earlier on the Boss who influenced
Speaker 2: me was not Clark. Oh really, it was actually the
Speaker 2: program director Pete Spriggs, who was Okay, it still is
Speaker 2: a phenomenal human being. But there you go. I could
Speaker 2: have said many of the same things at Clark truly,
Speaker 2: and yes, shout out to Pete. Yeah, Pete's awesome. Missed
Speaker 2: that guy. But he Clark is such a generous guy
Speaker 2: and in every sense of the word, and he's like
Speaker 2: this positive influence. I would say on everybody that he
Speaker 2: that he meets, like random people at Costco, the way
Speaker 2: he treats them, or just people somebody on the street,
Speaker 2: somebody has a flat tire, like he's the kind of
Speaker 2: guy who stops to help change it, Like it's awesome.
Speaker 2: That's rare, especially in today's Oh yeah, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: I think what I learned from Clark was the way
Speaker 2: you treat everybody matters and down to the person who's
Speaker 2: checking out your groceries at the grocery store, or the
Speaker 2: waitress or waiter when you're ordering food, and so I
Speaker 2: don't know, I think that goes a long way. He
Speaker 2: was just this like incredible cocktail of like optimism, kindness,
Speaker 2: and humility, and it just kind of it's infectious. It
Speaker 2: makes you want to live in the same way. And
Speaker 2: he's definitely that kind of guy. He's one impressive dude.
Speaker 1: Well, especially considering I mean, we had him on the
Speaker 1: show here last year. We can link to that episode
Speaker 1: in our show notes, but we talked about how he
Speaker 1: sold his first business when he was very young, Right,
Speaker 1: he was financially independent at a very young age, and
Speaker 1: so you could easily see him going in a direction
Speaker 1: that wouldn't lend itself to being charitable not only with
Speaker 1: your money, but also how you treat other people.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, so I'll not We're gonna take a quicker gret.
Speaker 1: But after that, speaking of financial independence, we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: real estates. We'll get to all of that right after
Speaker 1: this break. All right, we're back from the break. We're
Speaker 1: gonna wrap this thing up here before long. Yeah, get
Speaker 1: kicked me out of here. I got somewhere to be.
Speaker 1: I got somebody else to talk to you. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: literally nobody else to talk to today, just some episodes
Speaker 1: to edit and listen to. But let's talk about real
Speaker 1: estate specifically, because I honestly can't remember how it is
Speaker 1: that you got interested in investing in real estate. I
Speaker 1: know my story, we talked about this last week. I
Speaker 1: remember how I had, you know, the seeds of real
Speaker 1: estate planted, but I don't know how that came about
Speaker 1: for you. So can you share, you know, how it
Speaker 1: is that you that you first saw the light when
Speaker 1: it came to real estate.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is gonna probably sound a little lame,
Speaker 2: but my my mom super big into HGTV, Like she
Speaker 2: is probably Joanna Gaines's biggest fan.
Speaker 1: She is, and she has she her and your dad.
Speaker 1: They didn't they go to Texas.
Speaker 2: They went to Waco.
Speaker 1: They specifically stayed in a property that she had renovated.
Speaker 1: Was that, like, was it in an Airbnb?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: It was? Okay, Yes, I've got that thing Rakes in
Speaker 1: the cast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's not like, she's not like stalker level,
Speaker 2: But if she met her in person, I think she
Speaker 2: might think she'd be that.
Speaker 1: She definitely recognized her on the street.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, but she's she'd probably I don't know, she
Speaker 2: probably played cool. She probably would, but for just start sweating,
Speaker 2: gotta play it cool. And but for me, I would say,
Speaker 2: HGTV not my favorite channel. But there was this one
Speaker 2: that would come on and.
Speaker 1: Flip or flop or something. No.
Speaker 2: It was called uh income Property okay, and it was
Speaker 2: this host, Scott McGillivray.
Speaker 1: I don't remember that one, okay.
Speaker 2: So this guy used to help people with their property
Speaker 2: turn it into like he would. He would help them
Speaker 2: renovate it and turn it into a cash a property
Speaker 2: that would cash flow even more. And sometimes he would
Speaker 2: turn a single family home into a duplex, or he
Speaker 2: would turn a duplex into a nicer duplex, or they
Speaker 2: were all these different ways. He would suggest to make
Speaker 2: over your house in order to make it more a
Speaker 2: cash flow positive and and and help it to make
Speaker 2: more money and be more valuable like it. And I
Speaker 2: remember watching that show and I was like, Okay, so
Speaker 2: it's not just like paint on walls and QT and
Speaker 2: something up like he's he's got this plan. And he
Speaker 2: would always see the numbers at the end and people
Speaker 2: would be raking in more rent than he even assumed
Speaker 2: at the beginning, so that he'd be like, all right,
Speaker 2: if you do this into this duplex, you get twelve
Speaker 2: hundred on each side, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: they're getting fourteen hundred on each side. And I was like,
Speaker 2: what how are they They're They're killing it. And I
Speaker 2: think that sparked the seed of like, wow, okay, you
Speaker 2: can create something beautiful for somebody to live in and
Speaker 2: you can make money at the same time. And there
Speaker 2: were certainly other touch points along the way. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think getting into the Bigger Pockets podcast for a while,
Speaker 2: which is still a great one if you want to
Speaker 2: begin investing in real estate.
Speaker 1: It's really yep.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, definitely one of the best ones in this
Speaker 2: top that I would say, though, kind of sparked at
Speaker 2: the beginning where I was like, oh, okay, my mind started.
Speaker 1: Scott was that his names, yeah, Scott g or J.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So he was the one that was
Speaker 1: like switching out, swapping out the garage door before it
Speaker 1: was cool, but before all the other publications had written
Speaker 1: about the fact that this one thing will increase the
Speaker 1: curb appeal right, allow your property to return more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was super smart He always did a good
Speaker 2: job with those rehnos, and he really offered a lot
Speaker 2: of good advice, and then he would do a lot
Speaker 2: of the work because he was also a contractor. And
Speaker 2: they were always just fun episodes. I don't think that
Speaker 2: shows on anymore, but it was one of those where
Speaker 2: if you went back to the backlogs and watch them,
Speaker 2: you learn a lot.
Speaker 1: Got it? And so yes, I mean, so you've been
Speaker 1: investing in real estate for a while now. At this point,
Speaker 1: I feel like you have a lot on your plate.
Speaker 1: You've got several properties you yourself managed. You don't pay
Speaker 1: for management, you don't. You know, that's for the birds.
Speaker 1: You're getting all that money, you're keeping those expenses at
Speaker 1: a minimum. But you're also you're wrapping up renovating your home.
Speaker 1: You've got this, you know the podcast. It's a full
Speaker 1: time job. You've got three kids. Do you foresee yourself
Speaker 1: continuing to buy additional properties? Where's your head at as
Speaker 1: far as your investment property portfolio moving forward?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I think I do see myself buying
Speaker 2: more properties, but I also see myself going towards maybe
Speaker 2: easier ways to use the assets that I have or
Speaker 2: the money that I'm making to make investments because Yeah,
Speaker 2: like we've talked about on the show, we love investment properties,
Speaker 2: and they have been great for us. They've been great
Speaker 2: for me and my family to grow a net worth,
Speaker 2: to have monthly cash flow, and I love that we
Speaker 2: they're right around the corner from us, and many of
Speaker 2: which we have lived in before, and so there's like
Speaker 2: this cool element to investing where you live and I
Speaker 2: love that. I love that part of it, and I
Speaker 2: could see myself potentially buying more properties, but like you said,
Speaker 2: like yeah, plates kind of kind of fold these these days,
Speaker 2: and if we want to grow this business, then growing
Speaker 2: the rental property business kind of takes a back seat.
Speaker 2: It's on the back burner. And so I think if
Speaker 2: I did want to do that, if I did want
Speaker 2: to go hard in that direction, I would have to
Speaker 2: find some help when it comes on the property management side.
Speaker 1: And I was going to actually suggest that because I
Speaker 1: just kind of knocked it, but like that's the path
Speaker 1: that you go. I mean, you get to a certain
Speaker 1: point and there's.
Speaker 2: A certain scale at which you can't handle it all
Speaker 2: yourself exactly, and it does feel like it makes a
Speaker 2: little bit more sense to have a manager, a management company,
Speaker 2: or an individual.
Speaker 1: Who knows you how it is that you like things
Speaker 1: to be maintained, the different kind of vendors who you'd
Speaker 1: like to choose, and if you've got somebody on your
Speaker 1: side who's got your back like that, I could see
Speaker 1: that being incredibly valuable. Yeah, when it comes to freeing
Speaker 1: up your time.
Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe, but I still I love. There's something
Speaker 2: I love about physical real estate and I think it's
Speaker 2: just it's a fun investment in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: It also it has there's so many perks. We've talked
Speaker 2: about them way too much on the show, and you know,
Speaker 2: there's older episodes you can go to dig into why
Speaker 2: we love it so much. But there's also just this, yeah,
Speaker 2: this this tangible element that I like about it. Whereas
Speaker 2: numbers on a screen have a different effect, don't do
Speaker 2: it for you as much, not the same right, like
Speaker 2: a four to one K balance or I like, it's
Speaker 2: exciting to see those things grow, but I think it's
Speaker 2: more exciting for me to buy a property that I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is undervalued and oh I can I can like this.
Speaker 2: That's Scott McGillvray sort of mindset where it's like, how
Speaker 2: can I maximize the returns on this piece of land
Speaker 2: here with this little house on it. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: just love old houses too. Yeah. I love those nineteen
Speaker 2: twenties and thirties houses and it's kind of what they've
Speaker 2: got that character. Yeah. So I'm like, I always get
Speaker 2: excited to go over and take a look at a
Speaker 2: house because they're they're pretty, they're cool. It's it's different
Speaker 2: than sticking your six grand in a roth and not
Speaker 2: that that's not that's a bad ideas.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you need to do that. Yeah, don't hear
Speaker 1: Joel incorrectly, Right, Definitely do that. Make that a priority,
Speaker 1: I would say before you start dabbling into real estate
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 2: Everybody feels the same way I do about houses or
Speaker 2: about really state and a lot of people think of
Speaker 2: it as a pain or this thing to maintain, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, no, I think it is this thing
Speaker 2: that you can make better, make prettier and and invite
Speaker 2: people to live in and improve the community. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so part of it maybe is a mindset or maybe
Speaker 2: just a predisposition. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you're talking about the difference between tangible assets
Speaker 1: and intangible so it sounds like you're less of an
Speaker 1: NFT guy more of a master works kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Even that, Like, I'm like, if I don't get to
Speaker 2: put it in my house, I would rather if I'm
Speaker 2: going to buy a piece of art, which.
Speaker 1: I do, buy it locally.
Speaker 2: I love art. Yeah, I buy a little art. I
Speaker 2: put it in my house. For some reason that art
Speaker 2: like quintuples in value cool, but I don't care really.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It also doesn't surprise me that you're into real
Speaker 1: estate because I feel like, like, do you find yourself
Speaker 1: attracted to the aspect that you get to meet new people? So,
Speaker 1: you know, it depends on how busy your life is.
Speaker 1: But when you show a property, it can either be
Speaker 1: the most in my mind, in my experience, it can
Speaker 1: either be the most fun thing ever or it can
Speaker 1: be the most stressful thing. Because if your calendar is
Speaker 1: pretty open, maybe the previous tennant's got out of there
Speaker 1: a little bit sooner, you've already gotten the place cleaned.
Speaker 2: It's good to go.
Speaker 1: You feel good showing it right, like you've got time
Speaker 1: on your side. You've got folks lined up and you're
Speaker 1: able to talk to them. You kind of get to
Speaker 1: hear their story a little bit. But then other times,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're you know, if it's a
Speaker 1: very narrow window and you've got to show it to
Speaker 1: twenty people thirty people just in a single week, and
Speaker 1: it's a good point. Yea, that can be stressful. But
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about your first job. They're at the ekerds
Speaker 1: or whatever, the photo development, yeah, drug store. There's an
Speaker 1: element of interacting with people that I could see you
Speaker 1: kind of getting into just kind of being there in person,
Speaker 1: getting to hear.
Speaker 2: Their story exactly. I think that's part of what I
Speaker 2: like about real estate too, is, Yeah, even when you
Speaker 2: have to get contractors in there or something, if you
Speaker 2: get people you trust, Like I love meeting my dude
Speaker 2: Edwin at the house and you talking like he's a
Speaker 2: great guy. And so every time they could do yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like I got to put a you know, a
Speaker 2: new math tub in a place or something like that,
Speaker 2: Like I get to get to say hi to him.
Speaker 1: And so your most recent work that you did at
Speaker 1: a rental some some fresh yeah new bathtub, new.
Speaker 2: New tile exactly. And so those are the kind of
Speaker 2: things where I think that relational aspect that bouncing around
Speaker 2: town and getting out of the house like that stuff.
Speaker 2: Kind of it's a lot of fun in my book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so kind of. On that note, we talk
Speaker 1: a decent bit here on the show about financial independence.
Speaker 1: We just you know, we just talked about it here
Speaker 1: a little bit. We talk about financial freedom. We've shared
Speaker 1: how you and I how we've essentially reached coast fire.
Speaker 1: And so what advice would you give to anyone who
Speaker 1: is really pursuing financial independence they're really getting after it.
Speaker 1: Do you have any specific thoughts to share with folks?
Speaker 2: I guess when you when you phrase it that way,
Speaker 2: probably my initial reaction is to make sure you're doing
Speaker 2: it in a sustainable way. Was that a biased question
Speaker 2: the way I asked? No, No, No, I just think I
Speaker 2: think like for the.
Speaker 1: Idiots out there who all they care about is money
Speaker 1: and they're just trying to hit their number.
Speaker 2: If somebody is already overdoing it, then you probably need
Speaker 2: to cool your jets. Yeah, a little bit. And overdoing
Speaker 2: it is a specific thing, right, but there are there
Speaker 2: are a lot of ways to accomplish the goals that
Speaker 2: you want without burning out in the midst of accomplishing
Speaker 2: those goals. And I think there is there's something to
Speaker 2: be said for slowing down and doing it in a
Speaker 2: methodical way, because if your savings rate is seventy percent,
Speaker 2: well what if it was fifty five percent, and you've
Speaker 2: got to enjoy your life life a little bit more,
Speaker 2: and maybe you weren't working your fingers to the bone,
Speaker 2: and maybe you got to spend more time with people
Speaker 2: that you loved and you got to take an extra
Speaker 2: week off. I mean, those are the kind of things
Speaker 2: where it's all go back to what I said about sneakers.
Speaker 2: It's all a trade off, and you can buy those sneakers. Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that you should. I'm just saying like,
Speaker 2: there are measured trade offs that are worth making in
Speaker 2: even in the here and now. And that's exactly what
Speaker 2: we try to bring to the show every week, right
Speaker 2: is saying like we drink a fancy beer because it
Speaker 2: adds a lot to our life and it costs more
Speaker 2: money than most people are willing to pay. But we
Speaker 2: have just a few areas of our lives where we
Speaker 2: do that. And I think there are some people who,
Speaker 2: in the dogged pursuit of financial independence, have are not
Speaker 2: letting themselves enjoy almost anything. And I think that's a
Speaker 2: tough position to be in. I would say, don't do
Speaker 2: stuff that you hate longer than you need to just
Speaker 2: for money. But at the same time, we are also
Speaker 2: pro financial independence, we're pro that pursuit, and so it
Speaker 2: is this balance that you have to strike, and I
Speaker 2: think to strike that balance, yeah, the loudest voices are
Speaker 2: the extremes, and they're the ones telling you, like, go
Speaker 2: all the way, go all out, and you can do
Speaker 2: this in five years or less. And then there are
Speaker 2: the other people who are like, go to the slow,
Speaker 2: methodical route and if you just invest, you know, seven
Speaker 2: eight percent a year, you'll be able to retire when
Speaker 2: you're forty five. And we're saying, and it's not a
Speaker 2: super sexy message, but that there is an awesome place
Speaker 2: in the in between where you can live the way
Speaker 2: you want to in a lot of ways now while
Speaker 2: paying a lot of attention to your money and how
Speaker 2: you invest, so that you can set yourself up for
Speaker 2: success in a few years from now, and then for
Speaker 2: a lot of success you know, a decade or two
Speaker 2: from now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, man, you know. So, I think we've got
Speaker 1: a lot of listeners who are all across the spectrum
Speaker 1: when it comes to where they are in their pursuit
Speaker 1: of financial independence and their pursuit of being really smart
Speaker 1: with their money. But I think there's a sort of
Speaker 1: a real danger or a real temptation to look at
Speaker 1: what the world is feeding you and telling you that
Speaker 1: you should do, which is oftentimes the pursuit of money,
Speaker 1: success power, the different things achievement right generally speaking, whether
Speaker 1: it be the boss at work who is a great
Speaker 1: boss and who is encouraging you, like we talked about earlier,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're such a great writer. And while
Speaker 1: that may have initially just been kind of a pad
Speaker 1: on the back or just them truly calling out a
Speaker 1: talent that they see that can easily find its way
Speaker 1: being channeled into working more and neglecting some of the
Speaker 1: other important things in life. Like I feel like money,
Speaker 1: just generally speaking, is it's almost like this, like it's
Speaker 1: the sirens, you know, like Odysseus, he's tying himself to
Speaker 1: the mast and the sirens the call of that money.
Speaker 1: It will always be there. And I believe that there
Speaker 1: are fewer folks saying be careful of that, as opposed
Speaker 1: to the voices the books, the podcasts that are out there,
Speaker 1: you're telling yes, who are telling folks you need to
Speaker 1: do just.
Speaker 2: Go hard after it.
Speaker 1: And then once you achieve that, you're you're gonna have options,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have success, you're gonna have happiness. But we
Speaker 1: believe here that you've got to strike that balance. And
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be easier for you to
Speaker 1: maintain that balance as you climb the ladder of success,
Speaker 1: rather than having it be completely lopsided. You climb the
Speaker 1: ladder and then expect to be able to kind of
Speaker 1: find that balancing act while you're way up there in
Speaker 1: the ladder. I think it's a lot easier to find
Speaker 1: the balance when you're closer to the ground. But I
Speaker 1: like what you said. I mean it truly is. It's
Speaker 1: difficult because it depends on the individual. It depends where
Speaker 1: they are in their life exactly, depends what they have
Speaker 1: going on, their interests, all of that.
Speaker 2: When you and I were twenty four to twenty five,
Speaker 2: we were willing to make more sacrifices with our time
Speaker 2: in order to make more money so that we could
Speaker 2: invest it to make progress for our futures. And now
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the hard work has been
Speaker 2: done and it's not that there isn't a lot of
Speaker 2: hard work, fun work left to do, but it is
Speaker 2: one of those things where, yeah, so much of it
Speaker 2: does depend on your life stage. Do you have kids,
Speaker 2: like we talked to you know, I don't know. Just
Speaker 2: what you just said made me think of multiple episodes
Speaker 2: we've done, multiple interviews that we've done one with Wes
Speaker 2: Moss about happiness and how you can't just turn the
Speaker 2: dial on and off and basically like, yeah, the things
Speaker 2: that you're pursuing in the here and now are the hobbies.
Speaker 2: The relationships are crucial and you can't cut those off
Speaker 2: and then expect when you hit retirement where all my
Speaker 2: friends at. And then I'm thinking about carl our interview
Speaker 2: with mister fifteen hundred and how he's talking about how
Speaker 2: you shouldn't do live in flips when you have kids,
Speaker 2: and maybe some people are willing to do that, but
Speaker 2: like it is, there's like a time and a place
Speaker 2: for everything, and it's not one size fits all, that's.
Speaker 1: For sure, exactly. Well, speaking of core pursuits, as west
Speaker 1: Moss likes to call them, different hobbies, let's get.
Speaker 2: To our beer.
Speaker 1: This episode, which is called Woodland Pursuit and I completely
Speaker 1: picked up this beer for us here on the show,
Speaker 1: specifically for you, because it's got a disc golf goal.
Speaker 1: Is that what you call them goals? Like the metal basket,
Speaker 1: the hole, I guess, the holes. Yeah, it's golf, but
Speaker 1: it's that it's got a little little red putter sitting
Speaker 1: in there, and it's it's in the woods. It's called
Speaker 1: Woodland Pursuit, which also Woodland happens to be the name
Speaker 1: of the street that you live on. True our streets
Speaker 1: intersect Woodland. You've got Delaware. This is a juicy New
Speaker 1: England ipa by one of our favorite breweries, Humble Forger.
Speaker 2: What your thoughts.
Speaker 1: On this one?
Speaker 2: And when I first saw these beer, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is like my spirit animal beer
Speaker 2: really is because yeah, the disc golf, the Woodland, which
Speaker 2: is the name of my street, perfect a street that
Speaker 2: I love, And yeah, this was this was awesome beer, Matt.
Speaker 2: This is delicious. And you know it's funny because for
Speaker 2: an ipa, it had a lot of like fruit flavor,
Speaker 2: but not not generic fruit, like specifically like peach and apricot. Right, yes, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: And I would say I think it's these. This brewery
Speaker 2: does a lot of great fruited beers, but there is
Speaker 2: no fruit in this beer. It's all the hops, all hops.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I literally am going to do a deep
Speaker 1: dive on this after we hit stop on this episode,
Speaker 1: because I almost can't believe that there's not actually fruit
Speaker 1: in here. But on the label it only has hops
Speaker 1: listed out. It's it's a New Zealand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there are New Zealand hops. I guess I
Speaker 2: wonder if the New Zealand hops have like special flavor
Speaker 2: varieties that we can't get here.
Speaker 1: The to go to New Zealand and just like eat
Speaker 1: the hops right off the vine and it's like you're
Speaker 1: eating an apricat or I.
Speaker 2: Want to, although I don't think they'll they'll let us in,
Speaker 2: but yeah, but yeah four, this beer is so stick good,
Speaker 2: so delicious, so satisfying, and I feel like, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is now on my top favorites list.
Speaker 1: It's the perfect balance between sweet and the bitterness that
Speaker 1: you get from the hops. There's so much juice, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't get too sweet, Like as soon as you
Speaker 1: taste it, you think, oh, this is going to be
Speaker 1: too sweet, but then it like it kind of like
Speaker 1: drops off and it switches to kind of like that
Speaker 1: hoppy bitterness, and so they've somehow struck the perfect balance.
Speaker 1: This is one of the best, certainly the best beer
Speaker 1: we've had all year. We'll shoot, yeah, we just had
Speaker 1: trillium actually, so maybe we've had some awesome beers.
Speaker 2: It's right up there with them.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you happen to see this one in
Speaker 1: your local bottle shop Woodland Pursuit by Humble Forger, we
Speaker 1: would highly recommend that you picked this one up. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: But Joel, that's gonna be ye buddy. For this episode.
Speaker 1: Listeners can find our show notes up on our website
Speaker 1: at howtomoney dot com.
Speaker 2: That's right, and next Wednesday we'll resume kind of more
Speaker 2: of our normal format, doing a deep dive on a
Speaker 2: specific personal finance topic.
Speaker 1: We can only interview each other so many times.
Speaker 2: I don't know we could do to repeat. We did
Speaker 2: it twice Groundhog Day. Stome will be it all right, Well,
Speaker 2: that's gonna do it, Matt. Until next time. Best Friends Out,
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out,