1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan handle care Fragile. You think 2 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: about things that are so vulnerable in this world, and 3 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind, I think for 4 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: us is humans, our babies. I'm a proud father. I've 5 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: been present when my children were born. I've seen them 6 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: up to this point in life succeeding. But a lot 7 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: of that was depended upon how my wife and I 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: treated and cared for them early on when they were 9 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: so very fragile, and you're terrified the moment that that 10 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: little life is handed over to you. I was particularly 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: terrified the first time I had to put a car 12 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: seat in the back of a car and place that 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: baby in there and had to make it home. But 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: you gain confidence, but you know there's a there's another 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: group within infants that are even more vulnerable to the 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: horrors of this world and everything that can be inflicted 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: upon them. They have to be guarded like you can't 18 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: even begin to imagine. And those are what are commonly 19 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: referred to as neonates. These are the babies that are 20 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: more and many times prematurely or they have other physical issues. 21 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: They almost don't seem to be living sometimes, but they 22 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: are and they begin to thrive within neoonatal units. Today 23 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the wake left behind by 24 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Lucy let Me. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is 25 00:01:53,240 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: body bags. You notice I use the word wake is 26 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: an interesting thing because it is, first off, it's something 27 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: that is left behind, most commonly associated by a boat. 28 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: And you know me and my boat, love my boat, 29 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: like going down on the river and you disturb the 30 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: water which is otherwise peaceful, and you disrupted, at least 31 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: on the surface and certainly deep down. I think that 32 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: we could say that about Lucy let Me. 33 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: Lucy let Me secretly attacked thirteen babies on the neonatal 34 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: ward at the hospital where she worked, and when the 35 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: babies died, their deaths looked like natural causes, and investigation 36 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: showed that the thirty three year old nurse used methods 37 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: like injecting air into the baby's bloodstreams and stomachs, overfeeding 38 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: infants with milk, physically assaulting them, even poisoning them with insulin. 39 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: The babies she preyed on were mostly twins and triplets. 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: So much grief in this path of destruction, so much pain, 41 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: so much mourning that I don't think that any of 42 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: us can begin to plumb the depths of it as 43 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: to how she impacted the lives of so many families. 44 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: And I would say also a nation, the UK, and 45 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: the story that is nothing short of just pure horror. 46 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: In the case of Lucy Letby, she had her registered 47 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: nurse degree and then she spent an additional three years 48 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 3: of training in schooling three more years to be able 49 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: to work in the neonatal unit, and problems began almost immediately. 50 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: Joe, I think it was in twenty twelve when she 51 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: first took the position, and she's working. Let me kind 52 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: of set the stage because she's this is in the UK, 53 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: and so the hospital where she is is a hospital 54 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: is referred to as the Countess of Chester Hospital. As 55 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: hospitals really old, certainly old by US standards. It was 56 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: first established, I think, like in eighteen twenty nine, is 57 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: like a mental health facility. They called it a lunatic 58 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: asylum back then, but as time progressed, the nature of 59 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: the place kind of changed. But it was well known. 60 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: You know, Dave that I absolutely loathe the word why, 61 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: I truly do, because you can chase your tail all 62 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: day long on this and to try to get that answer, 63 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: and you'll never come to anything that's satisfactory. But I 64 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: think a bigger, probably more appropriate question is going to 65 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: begin with what what is it that wouldn't motivate her 66 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: to want to do this? And that's going to be 67 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: for our friends in forensic psychiatry and psychology, you know, 68 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: to kind of come to that determination about her. These 69 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: precious little angels who were under the care of Lucy Ledby, 70 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: they remain unnamed. They're simply known as child A, and 71 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: B and C. Not all of them died, but Lucy, 72 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: let be just so that everyone understands, was charged and 73 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: convicted of the murders of seven little babies in this old, 74 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: old hospital. And it's not the first time this has 75 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: ever happened in history, but I don't know that it's 76 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: ever happened to this level. And the real shame is 77 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: that it was not picked up on quick enough. She 78 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: was able to still have access to kids even after 79 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: the alarms were raised. 80 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: They had a number of checks and balances here that 81 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 3: were ignored and that is what allowed her access. But 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 3: very simply in a neonatal unit, you're going to have 83 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: children are going to pass, they are going to die. 84 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: A sick infant is as fragile as he gets, and 85 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 3: you know, suspicions a rose around Lucy fairly quickly. When 86 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: she finally finally got approved for that to work in 87 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 3: this unit, they saw changes right away, just simple mathematical changes. 88 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: They were used to having, you know, two or three 89 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 3: babies that might pass any and they had that going 90 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 3: on in a month. 91 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's one of the things that you kind 92 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: of keep watchover in a hospital, particularly on units like this, 93 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: units like the nick you the Neo Care Unit, are 94 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: even the ICU for adults because when you think about it, 95 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: the mortality rate, there is a correlation some believe between 96 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: the mortality rate and treatment, and that makes sense. Now 97 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: everything's going to have multiple variables, you know when you 98 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: look at statistically, because some people have other complicating factors 99 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: that are at work. Some people, you know, as I mentioned, 100 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: have genetic predispositions. It doesn't matter how hard you try, 101 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: there's just certain things that you're not going to be 102 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 1: able to overcome. Within the medical sciences, it's they try 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: and they try, but you want to try to see 104 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: if there's a correlation and would let be there was 105 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: a statistically significant number of deaths that began to occur. 106 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: I think that the first actually occurred June eighth, twenty fifteen, 107 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: and they didn't know what happened. I mean within thirty 108 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: minutes or so of her, well ninety minutes of her 109 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: coming on duty. That's another corollary that you look for 110 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: in an investigation like this, a medical investigation. This child 111 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: was dead and never heard this child as child A. 112 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: And that's key, particularly from an investigative standpoint. And you know, 113 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: medicine is a lot about investigations, Dave, It truly is. 114 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: From a medical legal perspective, we've got that same nose 115 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: because we're trying to determine what happened, Whereas with people 116 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: that are in medicine, they're not only trying to find 117 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: out what happened, but now they're trying to develop a 118 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: treatment course. But for all of these children, it ended 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: in a terminal event, and within ninety minutes the murder 120 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: of child A of Lucy Letby's attendance there. When she arrived, 121 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: child just began to crash. And other than that, I 122 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: was doing fun. 123 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: Starting with that June eighth death, there were four children 124 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: on the neonatal unit that crashed that three of them died, 125 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: one did survive. There was one common denominator through all 126 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: of them, and it was that Lucy Letby was on 127 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: the unit working with these children during this entire time, 128 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: with all four of them. When the consultants were looking 129 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 3: at this, they did notice, Hey, we've got the same nurse. 130 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: What are the odds? And they were able to break 131 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 3: this down and they made an error in classification because 132 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 3: they instead of listing the deaths as something more that 133 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: they were more than just an unexplained collapse, they listed 134 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 3: these deaths as medication heirs. Had they been addressed as 135 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: a quote serious incident involving unexpected deaths, which is what 136 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 3: they actually were, they would have been investigated differently. But 137 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: that didn't happen, which is how she was able to continue. 138 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: One of the things that you look for, and I 139 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: find it interesting medication errors. There's really technically only one 140 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: case that involved medication, and we have her let Be 141 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: actually pushing a bullus of insulin on a neonate and 142 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: that's almost unheard of. During that child's course, there was 143 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: no indication that the child had any kind of issues 144 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: relative to their pancreas, not being able to produce insulin 145 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: and the insulin cart. All the drugs on hospital units 146 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: are locked up. They have a drug cart that they 147 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: go to and it's carefully watched. Things have to be 148 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: logged in and logged out. Now it's done digitally, so 149 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: when you get access to this area, it has to 150 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: be accounted for and there has to be explaining this done. 151 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: And I don't really see how that kind of flew 152 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: under the radar with them. You have to have a 153 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: justification to go to that secured area to retrieve that medication, 154 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: and also that medication has to be written down in 155 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: the doctor's orders. Now, there are certain things that nurses 156 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: do as part of the daily course of them providing 157 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: patient care. It's understood, and there are many things that 158 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: doctors they don't have a clue about. If I'm going 159 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: to be treated in a hospital, it must be treated 160 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: by nurses, then treated by doctor. Most of the time, 161 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: the doctor kind of blows in and blows out, And 162 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: I've been in many circumstances where you'll see the nurse 163 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: kind of raise their eyebrow about suggestions that the doctor 164 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: makes and that sort of thing. But the doctor does 165 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: have to write out orders for very specific things. But 166 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: you know this goes to a bigger piece is who 167 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: has access to the children, to these babies on this 168 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: unit and what kind of methodology would be employed here. Now, 169 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: when you have neonates like this, and you can have 170 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: adults that are on ICU or cardiac care units, these 171 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: sorts of things, you're going to have an in dwelling IV, 172 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: all right. So with in dwelling IV, there's a port 173 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: where you can push drugs, and that means that you 174 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: inject the port. You don't inject the person. So they 175 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: draw up whatever type of drug it is and they'll 176 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: insert the syringe into that port and then push the 177 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: drug that is being prescribed. All right, So you're not 178 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: going to have you have one central area where this medication, 179 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: for instance, will be inserted into. You're not going to 180 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: have multiple like what we refer to in forensics as 181 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: npw's well physicians and nurses do too. Those are needle 182 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: puncture wounds. If you've got, like, for instance, an individual 183 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: that has been I'll give you a little aside here. 184 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: When we're looking, say, for instance, at a syringe being 185 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: applied to a heroin abuser, they're going into either the 186 00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: left or the right what we refer to as they 187 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: and a cubital fausa. In other words, this fancy term 188 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: for the crooks of the arm. 189 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: Thank you for clarifying that I had no I didn't 190 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 3: know if you were talking about the bottom of a 191 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: dude's butter is neck. 192 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: In short, it's referred to as the ACF. So if 193 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: you're talking about somebody that's out on the street and 194 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: they're injecting, what we will do is well, literally, some 195 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: physicians refer to it as milking the arm. At autopsy, 196 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: you'll start up in the you'll extend the arm, you'll 197 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: break riger mortise, and you'll extend the arm even through 198 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: riger so that the arm is completely straight and starting 199 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: to bicep. You squeeze down the length of the arm, 200 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: and as you tightly squeeze down the decedent's arm, you 201 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: can begin to appreciate if there's a presentation of blood 202 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: and a fresh needle puncture wound. Well, in case of 203 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: hospital care, you're not going to have like npw's all 204 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: over the place. Once the person is on the floor 205 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: and they're being treated, you'll have a central line that 206 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: has been placed into the arm. Say where the IV goes, 207 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: and then you'll have this push that takes place. You 208 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: can also have which in the case of neoonates, you'll 209 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: have perhaps a feeding tube that's in place as well, 210 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: and so this gives you access, say for instance, to 211 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: the tummy so that they can uptake nutrition. And so 212 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: that's Those are some of the access points that you 213 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: might have in the case of someone that was looking 214 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: to do a great harm to one of these little 215 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: fragile lives. 216 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: So Lucy let be already had everything. 217 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is probably why her murders, the murders 218 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: that she was committing, were not picked up on as 219 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 1: quickly as a clinician. You're not sitting there thinking this 220 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: is a homicide. Okay. They're always God bless them. People 221 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: in the medical field are always thinking about treatment, treatment, treatment, therapy, therapy, therapy. 222 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: We want to try to heal this individual, and so 223 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: if they try A and A doesn't work, they're trying 224 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: everything that they possibly can and the patient succumbs and dies. 225 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: They'll try to investigate that as best they can. 226 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: There are certain things doctors nurses expect when a baby 227 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: is crashing, and they do step by step. Here are 228 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: the things we need to do to resuscitate this baby, 229 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: and they have a reasonable expectation that the baby will 230 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: react in certain ways. And in this case of the 231 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: first four children, the three that died and the one 232 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: that survived. In the case of the three that passed away, 233 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: they did not respond properly. They did not respond as 234 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: expected rather and died. 235 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: When you've got a child that is born, say prematurely, 236 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: those cases are not always reportable to the corner. So 237 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to have someone trained in forensic 238 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: pathology that's going to get their eyes on the children immediately, 239 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: and the family might not. This is another way that 240 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: this can be masked. The family's already been through enough, Dave. Okay, 241 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,359 Speaker 1: they might not necessarily want the hospital to do an autopsy. 242 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: Now that autopsy would be a clinical autopsy. It would 243 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: be done in a hospital setting. So those are not 244 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: forensic pathologists that work in a hospital. In most cases, 245 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: some pathologists do, in fact have forensic certifications. Okay, but 246 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: the line's share of them are clinical atomic pathologists that 247 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, look at tissues, underslides, and they run the 248 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: lab and all these sorts of things. Saying, yes, they 249 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: do autopsies, but it's from a clinical perspective to try 250 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: to understand what brought about not just the death, but 251 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: also what happened during the clinical course, you know, to 252 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: try to help make the clinicians better and secondarily do 253 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: that I think in that setting, to try to give 254 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: the family the answers. But if you're not doing autopsies 255 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: in the family would probably say no, I don't want 256 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: that to happen. Where this can be a real mask 257 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: is if you've got kids that are babies that are 258 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: born prematurely. They're already compromised to this point. Remember, they're 259 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: struggling just to survive. Hence that's why they're on a 260 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: neonatal unit. It's going to be hard for them to 261 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: rationalize why you should put them through anything else, and 262 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: they're not necessarily going to want to go down the 263 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: road to have an autopsy performed. So with somebody with 264 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: bad intentions like Lucy Letby enters into the world of 265 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: these little fragile, fragile angels, the fact that they were 266 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: already up against the odds only heightens the probability that 267 00:16:45,360 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 1: she can get away with pure evil. When you're a 268 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: trained clinician and you're dealing with the most fragile of lives, 269 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: and when you're in an environment where just imagine if 270 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: you can, you're in a lockdown area with critically ill babies, 271 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: and you're this monster rate, and if you did a 272 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degree kind of panoramic turn all 273 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: the way around in the room, everywhere at waste level, 274 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: in these little incubators or potential victims. I'm not really 275 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: interested in her motivation. What I am interested in is 276 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: the fact that she did it, and she had access 277 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: to these children for a protracted period of time. There 278 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: were some reports that came out Dave where when a 279 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: code was called, and when they call a code, that 280 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: means that the child, the patient is going into arrest. 281 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: You've heard the old term in hospitals where you'll see 282 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: in movies where they'll call a code blue, and code 283 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: blue means cardiac arrests, that sort of thing. So that 284 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: means all hands on deck, and so people will go 285 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 1: racing through the hospital to get to that location in 286 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: order to save a life. And you can have people 287 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: come from multiple locations. But this is kind of a 288 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: within the neonatal world. Like you said, she had to 289 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: have specific training to be in there, So you've got 290 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: a limited group of people that would be responding to this. 291 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: But some of the remarks that came forward from let 292 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: Be's trial and you know, some of the peripherals that 293 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: were involved in this, the other clinicians that would come 294 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: over when these children were in distress, They said that 295 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: there were noises emanating in pain that they had never heard. 296 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: You know, babies cry, that's what they do. They cry 297 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: to let you know that they have needs. All right, 298 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: you and I both know that very well. But when 299 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: a child is in pain and they're screaming out, you're 300 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: trying to do everything that you can to soothe them. 301 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: There is nothing, according to these clinicians, that they could 302 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: do to kind of thwart this howling that was going on. 303 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: They tried everything to comfort these children, and a lot 304 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: of this had to do with the pain and discover 305 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: that is associated with either having a bullets of air 306 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: injected into their IV line. 307 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: What happens to the body when air is injected like that. 308 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: What happens is that there are any number of inbuli 309 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: that can be created. We have cases in forensics where 310 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: we'll have a bullet in baly. If you can believe 311 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: that you know of we're actually work cases where there's 312 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: been a person that was shot, projectile got into the 313 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: bloodstream and it created a blockage and the person died. 314 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: You can have all manner of fat and bla that 315 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: all these things are lethal because it creates this kind 316 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: of gap in the blood flow, and blood flow is 317 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: in fact inhibited. You can generally what we're well, specifically, 318 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is actually a gas embolism 319 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: and it can come about as a result of any 320 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: gas that is introduced into the bloodstream, and it's going 321 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: to cause pretty quickly death most of the time, but 322 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: it's a very painful death. And when the clinicians that 323 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: were tasked these they refer to them as investigators, medical 324 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: investigators that went back to try to go through all 325 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: of these records. Here's the thing that they were faced with. 326 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: Even though we've heard about people being injected with air 327 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: for years and years in cases of homicide, we've heard 328 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: this before. I have since I was a small child, 329 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: in kind of a literary form. There's not a lot 330 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: of research, as you can imagine, because it's a fatal event. 331 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: When I was preparing for the show today, I had 332 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: read back into my go to text, which is called 333 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: Spits and Fisher. It's our medical legal bible. It was 334 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: written back in the sixties and I think it was 335 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 1: doctor Spitz had written that there was a study that 336 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,239 Speaker 1: was performed on canines and they tried to match the 337 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: weight equivalency of an adult male or a canine. I 338 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: know this is horrible. People don't want to hear this, 339 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: but this is the way they gauged this. How long 340 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: it would take for an animal to die as a 341 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: result of being injected with air. It comes about very quickly. 342 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: The fact that air would be introduced into an IV 343 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: line at some point in time and the child survive, 344 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: it would be the exception and not the norm, particularly, 345 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, a little fragile life like this. Not all 346 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: of these cases were air being injected into lines. You 347 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: had a nasal gastric tube, which is essentially a feeding 348 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 1: tube where air was pushed into the stomach, which again 349 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: is horrible, It's absolutely horrible. The abdomen distends, there's an 350 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: incredible amount of pain associated with this, and finally the 351 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: child goes into cardiac arrest. And here's the thing about 352 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: it is that it virtually leaves little or no sign 353 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: but there's this one anomaly that occurs. There are color 354 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: changes that will happen in the event that you have 355 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: an IVY air embolism, the child's pallor will change in color. 356 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: At least three of the cases and Spits actually talked 357 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: about this in his writings back in the sixties. There 358 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: is a color change that takes place with this introduction 359 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: of air visa VI the IV Now we're not talking 360 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: about air going into the gastro tube. We're talking about 361 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: air being injected. And so three of the clinicians that 362 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: were on duty actually bore witness to this, to see 363 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: this color change that had taken place in these babies. 364 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: And I think, if I'm not mistaken, one of the 365 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: first ones where they saw this manifested was I think 366 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: the child they referred to as child D And that 367 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: would have been all the way back Dave on the 368 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: twenty second of June. Remember her first kill, her first 369 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: murder took place on the eighth of June. And just 370 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: in that June period you had four attempts and three fatalities, 371 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: and that was early on. It's almost like she had 372 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: started with a flourish that in that moment of times 373 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: it's almost like she was in this murders feeding frenzy, 374 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: and then again it continued on into August. At that 375 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: point in time, I think the child e was murdered 376 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: back in like August the fourth, you had another one 377 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: that was attempted on August the fifth. 378 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 3: This is a neo natal unit. Want to back up 379 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 3: and remind everybody that's what we are dealing with children 380 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 3: that were already in a very fragile state. In the 381 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 3: case of the very first child on June eighth, it 382 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: was a twin, and when the twin actually had been 383 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: healthy and all of a sudden went through the exact 384 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: same thing as the first child, that's when everybody on 385 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 3: the unit was going bonkers. What do we do? There's 386 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 3: something bad happening. Everything on the neonatal unit change with Lucy. 387 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: Letbe think about it. You don't expect somebody who is 388 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 3: trained to work with babies that has a good rapport 389 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: with their parents and doesn't seem I mean, it's not 390 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 3: like the devil wearing horns and a tail. This is 391 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: a nurse who's trained and appears to be loving and caring, 392 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: but in the meantime, she's killing the one she's caring 393 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: for she's loving them to death. 394 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. And in the interim there 395 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: were initially reviews that were conducted on the deaths. I 396 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: think the first review came about like two loaves a second, 397 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: and it's noticeable. I think that there was a gap 398 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: between the murder of child D which was back on 399 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: the twenty second of June of twenty fifteen, and then 400 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: there was a review that was conducted in July, and 401 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: she goes silent and then picks back up with the 402 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: murder of child E. 403 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 3: Just to be clear, Joe exactly that. Yeah, okay, you 404 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 3: had the four children that all collapsed, three of them 405 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 3: dying in the month of June. You had a doctor 406 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 3: raised the concerns over the suspicious the sudden collapses and deaths. 407 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: No action was taken against Lucy let Bey at that time. 408 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 3: It was so fresh. We're talking it happened in a 409 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 3: thirty day window. But after July second, everything stopped. There 410 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: was not another death between July second when the doctor 411 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: raised his concerns, until we go to August fourth, when 412 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: a mother walks into the unit to give her baby 413 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: boy who is child E, his milk and finds Lucy Letby. 414 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: Apparently in the process of attacking the child, she found 415 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: that baby was distressed, bleeding from the mouth. He died 416 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 3: after suffering a fatal bleed. They actually said in the 417 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 3: report flex of blood were found in his vomit. 418 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's only going to arise from some type 419 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: of trauma. She's interfering, essentially interfering with the nasal gastric tube, 420 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: you know, she's trying to manipulate the tube. And there's 421 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: also a change in her methodology. She had attempted the 422 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: IVY air embolism, and all of the early cases with 423 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: the exception of C and Murder C took place on 424 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: the fourteenth of June, and that's when she first introduced 425 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: air into the stomach and she killed this child's sea. Now, 426 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: this was after the failed attempt the case right before 427 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: this with Child B, where she tried to do the 428 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: air embolism again. She migrates over to on C Child 429 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: C where she's attempting to force air into the stomach. 430 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: She succeeds with it, and then Child D the last 431 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: case in June of fifteen, she goes back to the 432 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: iv but after the review in the first murder in August, 433 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: she's back on the ivy air of embolism again and 434 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: attempts that and that's that's when the mother had walked in. 435 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I know people might find this hard 436 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: to believe, but the next day she attempted to murder 437 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: child f with insulin. So she's changing this thing up 438 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: almost like she's trying to find a groove with this, 439 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: like trying to establish something that is a failsay for her. 440 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: Her goal at the end was to try to kill 441 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: as many kids as she could without being detected. And 442 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: her mere presence within the room, within this environment is 443 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: indicative of the fact that you know, these children are 444 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: dying on her watch. And so that's when you begin 445 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: to think about this, think about the changing of the methodology. 446 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: When the police finally had pinpoints her that conducted the 447 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: search of her home, Dave, she had stolen all kinds 448 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: of notes, clinical notes that were stuffed into bags. She 449 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: had enough self awareness to write down things like she's 450 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: guilty of this, that she's doing this, and that she 451 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: can't stop and all I saying. She even went so 452 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: far as to send a sympathy note to one of 453 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: the family members. 454 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: What they found in the investigation at her apartment, thousands 455 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: of pieces of evidence that came out at trial that 456 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 3: detailed the murder and attempted murder of the babies. On 457 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: one of these documents, handwritten out, she wrote, I am evil. 458 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 3: I did this. She wrote that on a green post 459 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 3: it note that was found inside a diary from twenty sixteen. 460 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 3: On that same note, she wrote, I killed them on 461 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 3: purpose because I'm not good enough. 462 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: And because you have all of these clinical notes, you 463 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: have this documentation, not just from what they had recovered 464 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: at her home. And I'm thinking, I've worn scrub gear, 465 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: I've worn a lab coat over my years, and I'm thinking, 466 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: how big are your damn pockets that you can cart 467 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: all of this stuff out of the hospital. This is 468 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: a major no no. Anyway. The last three homicides she 469 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: committed in this particular in this series, the last three involved. 470 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: One was a child that had hemophilia, so the clotting 471 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: factors were not as they should be with a child. 472 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: And any kind of trauma, particularly if you're trying to 473 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: thrust this nasal gastric tube down into this precious little 474 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: angel's throat, any kind of trauma like that is going 475 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: to cause him to bleed out, potentially bleed out into 476 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: his belly, which I think that they were able to 477 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: deduce this after reflection. The two that followed after and 478 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: this is in June of sixteen, I think the third, 479 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 1: and then just a couple of weeks later, there are 480 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: triplets that are born, Dave and the last two that 481 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: she is known to have killed were actually two little 482 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: brothers that were part of a group of triplets. In 483 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: every one of these cases, she apparently had decided that 484 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: with her methodology that she was going to employ, that 485 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: she was going to use the method of the nasal 486 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: gastric tube into the throat and in just filling that 487 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: space up with air. Horrific ways to die for all 488 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: of these children, and she had settled on this. It's 489 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: so sad that this has gone down the way it has. 490 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm glad that they were only able to come to 491 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: a conclusion that she was the perpetrator in these cases, 492 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: because it seems as though that she had hit on 493 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: something within within her mind, that she had settled on 494 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: a methodology she could have gone on, perhaps forever and 495 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: ever she could have done. Can you imagine, if you will, 496 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: And this is a terrible thought, what if she had 497 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,959 Speaker 1: become an international traveling nurse, Dave, And then she's just 498 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: essentially moving from job to job all over the world. 499 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: And remember, she's got a very specific skill set, doesn't 500 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: she this high end training, and she's going to migrate around, 501 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: perhaps go to other facilities all over the place, and 502 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: everywhere she goes and she's got this rattling around in 503 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: the back of her mind. What was it that it 504 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: said in the note I killed them because of what 505 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: was it? 506 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 3: I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough? 507 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: Here she is, you know, as you said, Dave, rattling 508 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: around this motivation. Whatever in the heck? This means I 509 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: kill them because I'm not good enough. That's merely the 510 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: little spark that kind of sets this thing off. Well, 511 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you change scenery in your life, 512 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: you're still gonna think that you're not good enough. And 513 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: kind of, as a little aside, she'd actually left. She'd 514 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: actually taken holiday after the death of child in as 515 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: in the number nine on the third of June and 516 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: gone on holiday to Spain. Dave. I guess the scenery 517 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: down on the beautiful beaches in Spain didn't change her 518 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: mindset because when she returns from her holiday, she continues 519 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: to perpetrate this crime. And this is when the pair 520 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: of brothers, this group of triplets died that day after 521 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: one another. 522 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: In your history of investigating what killed somebody, how was 523 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 3: it administry? I mean, there's a fairly broad range of 524 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,479 Speaker 3: things you're able to narrow cast into. But would Lucy 525 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: let Be be called a serial killer in that she 526 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 3: killed many We've got seven deaths of six survivors and 527 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: probably many more. Does she fit that criteria to be 528 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 3: called a serial killer? 529 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: Yes, she's going to go down in the pantheon. All right, 530 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: I'll put it to you that way. First off, we 531 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: don't have a tremendous number of let's say it, female 532 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: serial perpetrators out there. They're out there, trust me, people 533 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: have talked about them. They're out there. But Dave, you 534 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: know you mentioned and I thought this was quite insightful 535 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,239 Speaker 1: on your part because this goes more to methodology. You 536 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: mentioned just a moment ago she showed up with a 537 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: loaded gun, and she did. It's just the thing that 538 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: the loaded metaphorically the gun that she had was not 539 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: firing lead core projectiles. Lucy let Be is going to 540 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: go down, I think potentially in the annals of certainly 541 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: British crime as one of the most evil people that 542 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: has walked that star oil over there, simply because of 543 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: what she's done. And here's the thing, Dave, she was 544 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: employed for a long time there, and not every life 545 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: that she touched, not every little life that she touched 546 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: in that natal unit, succumb to her bad intentions. Some 547 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: did survive. How many more, Dave, how many more potentially 548 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: passed before her gaze, before her control that she attempted 549 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: to do something, or maybe it was thwarted in some way, 550 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: or it didn't succeed. How many more and maybe those 551 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: children are paying the price through life? You never know. Developmentally, 552 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: I think that there's probably a lot more of investigation 553 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: that will go on in this case as the year's developed. 554 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: But I know this, the path of destruction that she 555 00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: left behind is going to impact the practice of neo 556 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: natal nursing for years and years to come. I'm Joseph 557 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks