1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Well we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: today's best minds and Italy welcomes girl Boss Alini. We 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: have one hell of a second episode. First, we're gonna 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: be joined by Pennsylvania Senate candidate and current Lieutenant Governor 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: John Fetterman, and he's going to talk to us all 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: about his campaign. Then will we joined by Ruth ben Giott, 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: who was gonna tell us all about Italy's turn towards fascism. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: But first we're joined by one of our faves, geet Here, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: who's of course the host of the podcast The Time 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: of Monsters and a writer at The Nation. Welcome too, 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Fast Politics, geet Here, and congratulations on the new show, 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: which is a smash hit. And uh, I know you 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: will credit the algorithm, but the number one on the 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: charts is uh not a small thing that your your 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: mother was a number one bestseller and now you're a 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: number one podcasting Modern life. Baby, it's all happening. Um. 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: So I was really excited to talk to you because 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: it's just such a strange and kind of interesting time 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: in American life and also in Italian life. Yes, I 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: try to look at the positives, so one positive aspect. 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: You can look at the visits the nineteen twenties all 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: over again, the European the dollaris are law. You can 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: live as the next beat guys working around in stuff. 25 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: But um, you know, we're exactly six weeks or a 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: little less than six weeks till the mid terms. The 27 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: American Republican Party, I mean, they're trying to get their 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: message together. Let's cut to the tape. That's what's happening 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: in the United States House. Republicans just spelled out what 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: they're running on. It's a document called the Commitment to America. 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: It's fine, probably not much, and that you disagree with it. 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: Have you heard of it? No, you probably haven't. Probably 33 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: haven't read it. Nobody really cares why because there's nothing 34 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: real in it. There's not a single word in that 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: document about the attacks on the American family that you 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: see every day. That's at the center of most people's concerns. 37 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: How are my kids. Will they have a life that 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: resembles mind that was called the American dream? Does it 39 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: still exist? Will they be able to afford to live 40 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: the way they grew up? Will they have the opportunities 41 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: that we had. No people are upset about that. Why 42 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't they be, But nobody says it. You gotta love 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: Chuck A. Carlson. I mean you don't, and nor should you. Well, 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: you don't have to love it. But I think that 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: he is onto something, which is I think one of 46 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 1: the problems that Republicans are having. I mean, I still 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: expect them to, you know, win the House unfortunately, but 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: they are having a bit of trouble getting the wave 49 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: that they might have been able to expect, you know, 50 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: considering people's worries about inflation. But there's really no message. 51 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: And I think one problem is that the official Republican 52 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Party of like McCarthy and them, are still they're like 53 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen years behind. Like they're they're trying 54 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: to do the contract with America. You know, I gave 55 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: you a contract that didn't work out. Now I'll give 56 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: you a commitment. I'm willing to commit to you. Are 57 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: you willing to commit? Uh? You know, like I've I've 58 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: got no o where my commitment issues. But as Tucker 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: I think rightly says, it's not real like that agenda 60 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: that old you know, like Reagan Gingridge agenda has kind 61 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: of fallen to the wayside for a bunch of reasons. 62 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: One is that it's just, you know, like after the 63 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: Great Recession, that sort of trickled down economics is only 64 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: popular among like very wealthy people, which they already have. 65 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: But to actually juice up where Republicans are excited about 66 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: and where people on the Reagan general are excited about, 67 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: we have to have the real red meat of you know, 68 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: like private identity politics, immigration, bomb threats to hospitals exactly, 69 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: and the anti trend stuff. And I think what Tucker 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: is sort of gesture towards is that he feels that, 71 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: like to excite the Republican base, you kind of have 72 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: to have more red meat. And I think some people 73 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: like the Santis are trying to offer that. But but 74 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: so far, you know, I haven't seen a sort of 75 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: coherent message, although maybe I mean, you know, usually what 76 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: they do in every October that's an even here is 77 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, you have the caravan, you have some sort 78 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: of weird foreign disease like a vola. You know, they 79 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: are trying to like rat ratchet up the fear. And 80 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: I think this year like they start doing the sort 81 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: of crime stuff. But it seems to like lack authenticity. 82 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I noticed that dude king Ridge was suggesting 83 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: that Federman in Pennsylvania is a crypt. Now I don't 84 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: know much like you know, like John Fetterman, I can 85 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:57,679 Speaker 1: say with some certainty is not a member for the Blood. No. No, 86 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: like even like to bring up the crip. I mean, 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't know that to me, like that seems like 88 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: an old person thing is an old guy, right, but 89 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: like you know, like it's kind of like well, you're 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: watching you know, Boys in the Hood, and you know, 91 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: he didn't get the message that m S thirteen's the 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: new scare tactics like newer gangs. I mean, like a 93 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: program guy. I just like anyways, I don't think that 94 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: fitter and as a crip is very convincing or that. 95 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: And I thought, like, you know, the whole focus on 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: the tattoos, which I'm sure you'll get into when you 97 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: talk to him again, Like you know, like I'm sorry, 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: but look around, like have you gone to like shopping 99 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: mall or like you know, like how many cashiers are 100 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: just people walking around have tattoos. I mean, like it's 101 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: not like the frightening thing that it might have been. 102 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: In like nineteen seven or whenever was the last time, 103 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, you had a coherent thought. I just feel like, 104 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I'll be to optimistic, and I do. 105 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: I don't think you could never understimate, you know, the 106 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: potency of what I like to call uga buka politics. 107 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: You know, right, scary people out there, non white people 108 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: out there. You know they're gonna do that. They're doing that. 109 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: They're you know, trying to willy important various Democratic candidates. 110 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: And but again it doesn't, it doesn't. I don't know. 111 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's weird to me that they've sort of 112 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: stopped talking about inflation, right because the gas prices have 113 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: gone down, so they've decided they can't do it anymore. Yeah, 114 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: So just like it doesn't seem like so they're they're 115 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: doing like you know, Contract with America revived. They've you know, 116 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: dug up new tanguage from the crypt and given him 117 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: some sort of special um beticit that allows him to 118 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: enter date like the world. I don't think that it's 119 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: coming together for them. And I think the polls, and 120 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: I think the poll that the special elections that we've 121 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: seen kind of back this up. I mean, they they'll 122 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: they'll win some things, but they're not going to get 123 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: the way they wanted, and the Democrats could hold onto 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: the Senate, which I think is really important is this 125 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: contract from America. Look, they've been trying everything they could. 126 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: They were gas prices, gas prices, gas prices, and then 127 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: gas prices for ninety three days went down, so they 128 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: were like, okay, we have to pivot from gas prices. 129 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: So they went to um border, which is like their 130 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: favorite thing. But you know, again, like how you can 131 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: do you know, be like the borders such a problem, 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: immigration such a problem when you have this tight, tight 133 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: labor market and declining birthrates and you have Tucker Carlson 134 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: like every other day saying like, you know, how are 135 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: we going to keep our population our population up? I 136 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: mean it's hard to say like that. There's not enough 137 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: America for everyone. So I think crime is usually where 138 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: they land. But it just in my mind, it's so 139 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: interesting that, you know, when we read there was a 140 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: piece of the Time today about how you know the 141 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: Republicans are now going to double down on crime. I mean, 142 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: I do think they're spending more than Democrats and that 143 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: will help them. They are even there, it's there, there's 144 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: so many issues with their fundraising as well. Part of 145 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: this Trump has you know, basically stolen a lot of 146 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: money that was supposed to be stared among the party, 147 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: partially because some of their candidates are not like super 148 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: great raising vans in Ohio. And then then also this 149 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: sort of dispute between Peter Till and Mitch McConnell, which 150 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: I think is very significant that McConnell thinks like, well, 151 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: Til is like, you know, a multi billionaire, and he's 152 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: created some of these candidates and he's basically he generated 153 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: them out of a vap Otherwise, like mastards would not 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: exist there, like the little homoculos that the mad scientists made. 155 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: And uh and uh, Mitch McConnell quite properly, I think 156 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm with the old crew on this one. Uh. So 157 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: you're bringing these guys you've wonder and tele is like 158 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: looking at the poll numbers and thinking like, Okay, I'm 159 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: a billionaire, but I'm not like a sucker, you know. 160 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: You know, McConnell. Flavor that not to underestimate the amount 161 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: of money the Republicans have. They have a lot of 162 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: other billionaire and they are spending a lot of money 163 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: to try to um, tighten the races and you know, 164 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: hit on these crime issues, you know, like and then 165 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: they will have some value. I mean I think that, 166 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: you know, especially coming out of the big protests, there's 167 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of what they appeal to is the Revokan 168 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: base that a lot of people in that Werevokan based 169 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: looked at the protests coming out of George Floyd about 170 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: like America's burning down, you know, and they believe what 171 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: they're here on Fox News, which is they literally if 172 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: you talk to them, think that like you know, like 173 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: entire cities have been burnt to the ground, right, and 174 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: so they will believe the crime stuff. But I mean again, 175 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 1: that's seems to be about juicing up the base, and 176 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how much that gets you. I mean, 177 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: I think that there's every interesting election, well we'll see. 178 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm hoping just based on the special 179 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: elections that the Democrats can like pull it out. Uh 180 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 1: you know. Obviously abortion is you know, like the big thing, 181 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: and that is uh helping the Democrats um a lot 182 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: in terms of you know, getting their voters out. If 183 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: I were like a Democrat, I would like just laid 184 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: on the line just saying the only path forward is 185 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: to like have Democrats if you want to, like you know, 186 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: get back to row. And if you give us you know, 187 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: like fifty two fifty three in the Senate will immediately 188 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: quotify role. And more importantly, you know, like if the 189 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Republicans control the Senate, you're not going to see another 190 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: Democratic judge again, like they have that. Like you know, 191 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: like a comet could wipe out the Supreme Court and 192 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: the Republicans would be just like, well, we don't need 193 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: a Supreme Court. It was true. But you know, yesterday 194 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: they did blow up a comet. NASA did so that 195 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: ended another way that I hoped we might all and well, yes, 196 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: but I'm disappointed that they did not use the time 197 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: tested method that the movies have taught us of hiring 198 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: Bruce Willis and a team of oil riggers to uh 199 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: and uh nuclear bomb. And but you think what you 200 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: can get right exactly. I think that's a good point. 201 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean we do have this Republican Party 202 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: just scrambling to figure out a way to run. I 203 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: mean it's like you're running on a mid term where 204 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: you haven't you have no policy, and also you have 205 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: no Trump right for so long, they haven't had any policy, 206 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: but they haven't cared because they've had Trump. And now 207 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: they know that Trump doesn't win them in the in 208 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: the Purple States, and they so they're trying not to 209 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: use him, but they also don't have any policy. Yeah. No, 210 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: I I think that they are like much weaker than 211 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: one would have expected. And yeah, I think, I mean, 212 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: I think in the long run, like Trump was able 213 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: to gooset their numbers and a few crucial places in 214 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: six but I mean, in the long run, it is 215 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: a kind of losing bat And I mean in some ways, 216 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: I think that's like the most optimistic take that eventually 217 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: the number of people that the alienate by taking on 218 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: Trump will anything else. I don't know, We'll we'll see. 219 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean I do think that, you know, the Democrats 220 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: and then also anyone who wants American democracy to survive 221 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: it has to be harping on this message that like, 222 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is a trump iised party and the 223 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: only way they're gonna move away from that is if 224 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: they keep losing election after election, right, and then one 225 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: can hope, like you know, in ten years, they'll the 226 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, um, if you bang your head against them, 227 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: all long enough, like at some point you're gonna realize 228 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: that's not what you should be doing. Well that and 229 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: I mean that's what Liz Cheney basically said at the 230 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: Texas Trip Festival, right. She said that as much as 231 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: she hates Democrats, and we don't like her either, but 232 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: that the only way that Republicans are ever going to 233 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: get sane again is by losing. Yeah, I think that's right. 234 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's actually like not a bad message 235 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of like sort of swing voters who 236 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: might have some Republican inclination and and want a saying 237 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: Republican party and they'ren't happy with where things are going. 238 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think those people are at the 239 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: margins and they give you the when you have at 240 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: a few places. More broadly, I think that you know, 241 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: like a lot of regular Democrats who might sit out 242 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: the mid term, Like, I think the message has to 243 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: be going out there about the stakes, which you know, 244 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: like I think the Dobbs decision really did make the 245 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: stakes very clear. And I think the persistence of Trump 246 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: and everyone's sense of where the Republican Party is going 247 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: makes it all all clear. So I'm hoping, you know, 248 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: one can never predict, but you know, best case scenarios 249 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: like a really strong Democratic U turnout as well, um, 250 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: and that can offset a lot of the Ugo Buka 251 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: politics on crime. And you still have this Republican Party 252 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: that is continuing its flirtation with q and on, well 253 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: not just flirtation. I would say that they've gone to 254 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: second base. Can you talk to us a little bit 255 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: about that? Sure? Yeah, I mean you just see Donald 256 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: Trump his rallies, just have to see it. It used 257 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: to be like he would like wink, like you know, 258 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: like kind of used a phrase like the storm is coming. 259 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: But it's more and more like his rallies are qun 260 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: on events, and it's because like you know, he's desperate 261 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: for support and for like he meets, he's doing his 262 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: own fundraising. Those are the hardcore people, the whole que 263 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: on thing. And I think that it's interestingly, you know, 264 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: like it all started with things like pizza Gate and uh, 265 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, conspiracies about Democrats and Hollywood liberals. But now 266 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: it's it's merged with the election stuff, right like the 267 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: q no on staff and the election, the election was stolen. 268 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: It's a kind of like you know, it's an evolving mythology, 269 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: and that's where it's landed on. And so yeah, I 270 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: mean it's very strinking that Trump is now more qute 271 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: on than he's ever been. And once he's at his rally, 272 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: like you know, the very disturbing images once people giving 273 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: what looks like a Hitler so well that that was 274 00:14:53,600 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: actually like us bad, there's a q wonder how you 275 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: ever get people back from that? That's a really good question. 276 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if the individuals, like I don't know, 277 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: I mean, one hears sort of heartbreaking stories of people 278 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: who have like okay, they can't talk to their parents 279 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: anymore or their siblings. I look at this institutional thing 280 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: rather than a personal thing. I don't know, you know, 281 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: any individual person, maybe the people who know them can 282 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: work try to convince them, but like on a larger scale, 283 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: the only thing that can work is if the Republican Party, 284 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: like again, loses the reflections that they realize this cute 285 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: thing is a loser and we have to separate it out. Um. 286 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the biggest historical parallel is the 287 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: John Birch Society, which has never disappeared. It's still around, 288 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: but I mean it was really, really big in the 289 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: early sixties and it helped Barry Water win his nomination. 290 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: And people now say, well, he just he and Reagan 291 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: distanced themselves, but they just themselves after like Goldwater lost, 292 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: like after he lost big and sixty four. You know, 293 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: Republicans realized, you know, like they need to keep an 294 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: arms there in some place like Utah. They were so powerful, 295 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: but they became more marginal. And I think I think 296 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: there's some value in losing elections. You know, there's some defeat. 297 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: Is a great teacher. Yeah, let's hope that's what happens. Gee, 298 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. I hope you 299 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: will come back regularly. Oh, I'm always happy for a 300 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: fast time. Thank you. John Fetterman is the Democrat nominee 301 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,239 Speaker 1: for Pennsylvania Senate and the current Lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania. 302 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Jon Fatterman, It's so wonderful to 303 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: be here. So my first question for you was the 304 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: as campaign said that had you had vegetables, you wouldn't 305 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: have had a stroke. Can you talk to us about 306 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: like that kind of victim blaming that and how odd 307 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: it is to see that from a doctor. It's not 308 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: something that really hit with me personally. I mean I 309 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: wasn't shocked. I mean, this is a man that had 310 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: a whole career of willing to say and sell anything 311 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: you can to try to make a buck. And you'll 312 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: say in you know, pedal cruelty to try to win 313 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: a race. And if he believes that's his story, he 314 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: needs to tell it the way he needs to. But 315 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: if I may have the ability to ask your own 316 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: or your listeners, you know, have any of you, you know, 317 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: whether you or anyone listening, have you had your own 318 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: health crisis or have you had a major challenge you know, well, 319 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: your parents, your grandkids, your children, you know, parents, anyone. 320 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: When I make those kind of questions to people at 321 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: events and when on the campaign trail, two thirds to 322 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: three quarters of the hands go up. And I think 323 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: it's a very, very big bet that Dr Oz and 324 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: the campaign is placing on going after me very having 325 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: somebody that nearly died from having a stroke thinks that's 326 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 1: a good winning strategy. I don't believe that a strong 327 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: or principal campaign would choose to say, you know what, 328 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: making fun of a stroke patient is a winner. And 329 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: then I think it's reflective of the kind of his 330 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: his character. I think it's a reflective of the kind 331 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: of race that he is in right now. And I 332 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: believe that desperation is the worst cologne. If you're the 333 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: kind of person that responds positively and say, yeah, that's funny, 334 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: then those are the kind of people that aren't gonna 335 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: be opening to vote for us either way. But like 336 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: I said, I will never respond in cruelty with cruelty 337 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: or run the kind of negative campaign. We're just gonna 338 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: run a very clean campaign talking about the Partnsylvania voters. 339 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: That's how we're continuing. But it is interesting right now, 340 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: in a time of post COVID or actual COVID, to 341 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: blame a victim for their illness, right. Yeah. Again, It's 342 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: just it's bizarre to me. I'm always rooting for anybody. 343 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: I don't care what their politics are. I don't care anything. 344 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: It's like, if you have COVID, or if you have cancer, 345 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: or you have any kinds of issues, it's like we 346 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: should be we're on the team. We're on the same team. 347 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: We need to be rooting for anybody. And I don't 348 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: understand why anybody because I promise you you will have 349 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: a health challenge visit your life, you know, and making 350 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: fun of somebody or judging someone. I don't think that's 351 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: gonna really wear very well on you when when it's 352 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: the you know, when when one visits for you and 353 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: and we keep pushing forward, and it's it's not easy 354 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: running to have somebody that had a stroke. Absolutely, but 355 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to be here, and I'm so grateful 356 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: that I received the kind of care that saved my life. 357 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: And I would want and I would have the same 358 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: for every person, every American. And I want to make 359 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: that a very big part of our campaign to just 360 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: how critical that our health care situation in Pennsylvania and 361 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: in pencel and in America is one that needs to 362 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: be addressed. And it's certainly not gonna be made better 363 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: by having a doctor mocking somebody that nearly died for 364 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: from a So talk to me about your recovery. You've 365 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: been pretty clear that you have still some auditory issues. 366 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that and what 367 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: you're doing to help yourself. Definitely, every day I'm always 368 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: feeling better and better, and things that I have to 369 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: understand that that it's gonna take some time for my 370 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: brain to fully be okay with with these auditory processing, 371 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, and my hearing as well. I'm so grateful. 372 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: You know, I've always been able to drive. I never 373 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: lost any memories. I always understand the reality of things. 374 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: I I'm not having any other issues that sometimes I 375 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: may not hear anything or I might will need some 376 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: captioning to make sure I fully hear and understand what's 377 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: being asked or what's asked of me. And the recovery 378 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: has been going, it's been remarkable. I'm I'm so grateful 379 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: in that as long as continues gets better and better. 380 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: The doctors believed that I will continue to get better 381 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: and better. But it's really helped me expand, you know, 382 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: being even more empathetic. You know, I always thought I 383 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: was a very empathetic person, but you know, before the stroke. 384 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: But now I also understand too that there are challenges 385 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: that millions of Americans have, especially a lot of them 386 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, and we need to make sure that we 387 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: always must be kind, we always must be understanding, and 388 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we're supporting those individuals 389 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: as well too. And I can't be so grateful to 390 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 1: all the support I get from people going everywhere, all around, everywhere, 391 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: no matter red or blue county. Here in Pennsylvania, people 392 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: have always liked boom, Yeah, way to go, you're doing well. 393 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: Everything's great. Things that things are great, and no one 394 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: in my person has chosen to make fun of that, 395 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, And I think that means that it's easy 396 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: to say mean or nasty things on social media or behind, 397 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: you know, hiding behind your your campaign, actually saying one 398 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: to one it's like you really deserve this, or it's 399 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: funny or ha ha ha. I refused to you only 400 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: respond by just being grateful to be here. As has 401 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: said that he thinks abortion is murder. This is a 402 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: pretty out there thing for a medical doctor to say. 403 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: Talk to me about where your campaign is on abortion. Yeah, 404 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: it's it's it's also it's also the truth. It's not 405 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: me distorting his words or lying about his record or 406 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: saying anything like that. It's it's simply just you know, 407 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: the truth is that he said it was every abortion 408 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 1: is a murder. And and I ask him of just well, 409 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: what exactly does that? And if if everyone is every 410 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: abortion is a murder, then means that that every woman 411 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: that chose to have an abortion must be called the killer. 412 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: Then you know, if if if it's a murder, then 413 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: you must be a killer in order to choose an abortion. 414 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: And how any woman, how any woman you know, could 415 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: understand or defend or support an individual that believe that 416 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: every abortion is a murder, you know. And I can't 417 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: get my head around that as as a man, So 418 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: I can only imagine as a woman with that must 419 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: have been, you know, to have somebody to say that. 420 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: And that's a very stark choice that we have here 421 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: in this race. We have somebody that will do whatever 422 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: they can't vote and take away abortion rights. And I 423 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: will stand and will do anything, whether it's getting rid 424 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: of the filipbuster or whatever that is to codify Roe v. 425 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: Wade back here. And and I understand Dr Oz might 426 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: be a joke, but it's not funny. And abortion is 427 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: on the ballot, you know, And no one takes a 428 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: clown seriously. But if you can give a clown a vote, 429 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: then you got to take that seriously. And you need 430 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: to respond that by supporting the kind of candidates like 431 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: myself that will always lean in and make sure that 432 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: abortion rights are preserved and fought for. So you've agreed 433 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: to debate Oz. You know, was Oz is like thing 434 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: where he would sort of you know that he won't debate. 435 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: He won't debate, debate, he won't debate. So now you've 436 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: agreed to debate, and Oz is mad because he still 437 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: feels your dodging debates. Explain this to me, Oh, no, 438 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: he actually hasn't a debate, you know, like that's he's 439 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: just he's desperate word for I mean, he keeps throwing 440 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: anything he can up against the wall, uh, to try 441 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: to find that one thing that really resonates. And and 442 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: the truth is is that we've always said we're gonna 443 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: have a debate. We are negotiating on when the debate 444 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: debate's gonna have and we did. And also it's the 445 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: history in Pennsylvania senate races, everyone has a debate in 446 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: the mid to late October, which, oh my gosh, that's 447 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: exactly when we're happening one. And it was it was 448 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: just a distraction because he didn't want to talk about abortion, 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: he didn't want to talk about his record on lying. 450 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: And it's it's absolutely remarkable. You know, I don't know 451 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: how many people can say in their lives that they've 452 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: had a lie. So much powerful that they had to 453 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: pay a fine in excess of five million dollars. That 454 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: takes a special kind of talent to get to that point. 455 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: And that's really the truth. And we wouldn't expect anything 456 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: less from Dr Oz lying about my record, even so 457 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: having to pay over five million dollars for selling magic 458 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: diet pills and all kinds of other absurd things, things 459 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't even agree is the truth if you 460 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: actually have a listen of things that he actually hocked 461 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: on his show, that everything he does is lies. So 462 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: Dr Oz has not really given a straight answer on 463 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: January six, Can you talk a little bit about that? 464 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: Doctor Oz will not give you a straight answer depending 465 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: on what room he's in. In one room, he says, 466 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: I have no objection, you know, Joe Biden one and 467 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: then and if he's on Fox, if he's on Fox News, 468 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, simping for Maga, he's gonna be like, well, 469 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: we don't have all the evidence, you know, we don't 470 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: know exactly um, and it depends on any of those 471 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: things true. And it's like, you know, John Vetterman is 472 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: soft on crime, but he supports pardnering the insurrections from 473 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: January six. You know that we're police officers if people 474 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: were died, and and you know, trying to overturn an action. 475 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's just bizarre. He will say whatever he 476 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: needs to say in the situation to arrive at a 477 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: place where he gets the most you know, elections, or 478 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: the most money or the most endorsement whatever. But and 479 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: with the irony is is that nobody believes him. Mega 480 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: doesn't believe him, Pennsylvanians don't believe him. And Dr Oz 481 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: doesn't have any real supporters. He has voters, he'll get 482 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: plenty of votes, but nobody actually is a supporter. And 483 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: I have not genuinely encountered by one single Pennsylvanian that's like, 484 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: I love this guy. I can't wait to vote for him. 485 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: You know, look out, you know. And in fact that 486 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: was born out in in the polls of Republicans were 487 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: happy with who they chose or they're happy with Can 488 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: you imagine a restaurant and going to a restaurant where 489 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: the people eating there, you know, are only one to 490 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: actually eat what's on this plate, but because the only 491 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: place in talent, they have to eat there. And he's 492 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: got an R after his name, and people understand and 493 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: that nobody believes what Dr oz says, regardless if you're 494 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: MAGA or your regular people, or you're anyone. Because he 495 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: spent an entire life flying, he might be popular in 496 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: New Jersey. No, that's the truth, not even like people 497 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: have always reached out to us on social media that 498 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, you know, nobody likes us in New Jersey either. Uh, 499 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: and that's another thing he lies, you know, Like you know, 500 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: I put I put Pennsylvania to the question, what's worse 501 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: a fake Pennsylvania a resident, a fake farmer, or a 502 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: fake doctor? You know which one? And then really, in 503 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: Dr oz Is case, it's all of all the above, 504 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: is the answer, you know, whether it's getting a fifty 505 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: dollar tax rebate, pretending that he's a farmer with one 506 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: of the homes that he bought here in Pennsylvania, or 507 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: lying that he lives in New Jersey, which again, why 508 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: why not lie about where you live? Because it's bizarre 509 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: and surreal, But that's really the guy who he is. 510 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: So you hired two people who have been wrongly convict 511 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: did and jailed, and then the ods campaign said that 512 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: they were criminals. Can you just talk a little bit 513 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: about this story because I feel like it's such an 514 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: important story about criminal justice. And I think it's important, absolutely, absolutely, 515 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, Lee and Dennis Horton that you know, and 516 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, as chair of the Board of Partments here 517 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania's the chair. You know, I made the point 518 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: to make sure that these innocent men were free, who 519 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: spent nearly thirty years in prison. They had perfect records, 520 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: They've always maintained their innocence, you know, throughout their entire 521 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: and the actual warden of the prison said begging me, 522 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: you gotta let these men out, you know, unanimously, everyone 523 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: from the secret of the Secretary of Corrections all the 524 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: way down to the guards all said let them out. 525 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: They don't belong in here in prison. And I made 526 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: that fight, and and all along that I always under 527 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: stood that these goals are gonna, you know, use that 528 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: against me, that I'm handing them the next attack ads, 529 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: and I refuse to ever try to to to change, 530 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, my a new title for my conscience, and 531 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: I will always fight for what is the right thing. 532 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: And and again we understood, you know, I always understood 533 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: that this was going to be weaponized against me, and 534 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: and it is and I stand up, and I pushed back, 535 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: and I dared Dr oz Uh to make a real, 536 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: actual stand because he hasn't done one his entire career. Okay, 537 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: I have one last question for you, doctor oz In 538 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, voted in Turkey. Yeah, I saw that, 539 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: but I mean he's the only one that needs to 540 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: explain to that. I I really don't know. He's still 541 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: on the he's still on the voter rolls in New Jersey, 542 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: doctor oz and residency his has been elusive except actually 543 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. And that's really the truth. And there's nothing 544 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: wrong with living in Turkey or living in New Jersey. 545 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. But I think there's something 546 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: wrong with trying to run for the sense of you know, 547 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Senate. And we've always talked about that, and you know, 548 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: how can you fight for Pennsylvania if you have never 549 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: lived in Pennsylvania or understand Pennsylvania. There's really not any 550 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: way that you can relate to that. So you feel 551 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: good and ready to go and serve in the senator 552 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: elected absolutely most people and understand that true. And thankfully, 553 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope every one of your listeners, if 554 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: you had a major health challenge, didn't have a doctor 555 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: in your life making fun of you or saying that 556 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: you're not you know, it shouldn't be able to work, 557 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: and all these things. But unfortunately I have a doctor 558 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: in my life saying that thing. And if we don't 559 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: do what we need to do here in Pennsylvania, everyone 560 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania and across the country, you're gonna have a 561 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: doctor for six years that are gonna make fun of 562 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: your health conditions and making sure that you are a 563 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: murderer if you choose get an abortion. So a lot 564 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: here at State. Thank you so much, John, Thank you 565 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: so much for having me on. I'm so well. The 566 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: feelings mutual. Thank you. Ruth ben Giott is a columist 567 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: at MSNBC and the author of Strong Men Mussolini to 568 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: the present Welcome Too Fast Politics. Whereas, thank you and 569 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: delighted to be there. I mean, we saw this election coming. 570 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: Can you just give our listeners a little backstory about 571 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: what has happened in Italy? Yeah, so this election basically 572 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: the far right managed to make the kind of technocratic 573 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: centrist government fall, which it's easy to do in Italy 574 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: to make governments fall. Customer positions, and they knew in 575 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: doing that that they had risen the far right, the 576 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: Brothers of Italy Party of Georgia Maloni and her two 577 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: partners of these highly racist and authoritarian parties, the League 578 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: and Sylvie Belusconi's forts Fort's Italia. They knew that, in 579 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: particular Maloney's party was really on an upswing and so 580 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: if they had elections, this is the snap election, right. 581 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: This is because Mario Droggy, he recused himself from reelection. Yes, 582 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: many people were lamenting this because they had a feeling 583 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: that the outcome would be what it indeed it has been. 584 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: And yet you could say that this was perhaps inevitable 585 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: because the Brothers of Italy party, which is a neo 586 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: fascist party, um got of the vote and with the 587 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: other two parties, uh, you know, it's over. And so 588 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: there's many stories to be told here, but one is 589 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: the failure on the part of the center left. And 590 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: there's some lessons for the states in this. That's right 591 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: to form a coalition. Right, they did not ally, either 592 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: with other leftist parties or with this other this populist 593 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: five Star party. They didn't do that. There also seen 594 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: as too elitists, and two establishment no longer speaking to 595 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: people's the working class, which is a big deal in Italy. 596 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: You know, Italy had the largest left wing parties in 597 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: all of Western Europe and socialists, the Communist Party and 598 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: now and then it had fascism, and now it has 599 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: a prime minister, the first woman to serve as prime minister, 600 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: and the first person with direct contacts with neo fascism. 601 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: She comes out of neo fascism, this Georgia Miloney. Right. 602 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: So one of the things you talked about in your 603 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: article in the Atlantic, and then you've just had an 604 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: article in MS too. But your article in the Atlantic, 605 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: he talked about how these people, the former head of 606 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: the party had said, we are all al Duce, right, yeah, 607 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: so he said we're This is this guy in not 608 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: a Nazio Larusa, who is vice president of the Senate 609 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: right now. So this and he's also a party elder 610 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: for head of the party. And so the message is 611 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: that ever since bare Lusconi brought neo fascists into the government, 612 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: you know, off and on in the two thousands and first, 613 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: the far right has been normalized and accepted as part 614 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: of it's a it's a it's an acceptable choice for 615 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: Italians in a way that is totally different than in Germany. 616 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: So this guy who says we are all heirs of 617 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: the duche, which is a move which is not only 618 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: legitimizing fascism and Musslini, but also kind of downgrading and 619 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: delegitimizing that we're all heirs of the resistance which created 620 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: postwar Italy got rid of fascism. This is being done 621 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: by somebody who's a vice president of the Senate. Jesus, 622 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. A lot. The right has 623 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: jumped into defending uh, this new girl boss Allini as 624 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: a sort of you know, a f anist win. Explain 625 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 1: to us why she is actually not a feminist win. Yes, 626 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: so like you know Marine le Penn, like Catalin Novak 627 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: who was Minister of Family and Hungary and now is 628 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: president of Hungry. It's a figurehead. These are women who 629 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: purport to be valorizing women, respecting their rights and their 630 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: position in society. Uh, not not being denigraded by being 631 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: gay or trying to be feminists. And they claim that 632 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: they are um the friends and supporters of women, and 633 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: what they actually do, as we know, is takeaway or 634 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: complicate access to women's reproductive rights, and so Brothers of Italy, 635 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: we can look at what the party's already done in 636 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: places where it's been governing on the local level, you 637 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: know how, like we're looking at Texas here, we're looking 638 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: at Florida to see these are rehearsals by discientists what 639 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: they'd like to do. Nationally. We can look at Verona, 640 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: which was declared a pro life city, which is governed 641 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: by Moloney's party, and so they it's important. Abortion was 642 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: a very hard one victory abortion rights because at least 643 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: different than any other country, it's got the Vatican in 644 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: the middle of it sitting there. So eight after a 645 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: long battle by feminists, they got the right to abortion. 646 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: So she claims she's not going to take it away. 647 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: But as you know nowadays, even like you keep elections, 648 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: you just make it difficult for people to vote. So 649 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: what she's doing, they've been doing is restricting access to 650 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: abortion services. Um doctors have the right to be conscientious 651 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: objectors in Italy and to say this is the Catholic 652 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: influence that they don't want to perform abortions or give 653 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: the day after pill. But they've been pressured in the 654 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: areas that her party governs not to do that. So 655 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: some of this is very familiar to the unfolding American scenario, 656 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: right when the right defends them, which they really have 657 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: picked this, I mean, Steve Scalise was was, I mean, 658 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: they've really picked an odd bedfast. I mean it's not 659 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: an odd bed fellow. But just explain to our listeners 660 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: how exactly they are fascist? Well, and yes, the line 661 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: that everybody is following, and it's not just in America, 662 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: that is that that she's a conservative. And Maloney herself, 663 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: especially with foreign journalists, she tries to whitewash her fascism, 664 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: saying that she's just a conservative, she stands for patriotism 665 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: and the family, blah blah blah. But this is a 666 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: party that dates back to fascism. Yes, the talking points 667 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: are the same of this global right that stretches from 668 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: Moscow to Budapest. But in the case of Italy, the 669 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: Brothers of Italy was created as a party in two 670 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: thousand twelve because um the existing extreme right party had 671 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: fused with Beer Lusconi's party, which had a lot of 672 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: let's say traditional conservatives in it. That meant that there 673 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: was no at aonymous real neo fascist party. So Maloney 674 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: and lad Usa and others founded one just so they 675 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: could carry on the neo fascist tradition. And it's very important. 676 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: It's not just symbolic their self proclaimed fascist they are. 677 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: That's why lad Usa says, we're all heirs of the 678 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: duce He's and so so it's not just that you 679 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: know their clips circulating that. In the ninety nineties, when 680 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,839 Speaker 1: she was head of the neo fascist student movement, she said, 681 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: you know, MUSLINI was a great politician. It's that It's 682 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: also yes, yes, that's bad, but you could say, okay, 683 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: that was like years ago. But when they founded this 684 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: new party, if you look at the logo, there is 685 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: a flame in it to tri color flame. So some 686 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: people are trying to say, oh, yeah, it's just like 687 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: the flag. No, it's not the flag. That flame is 688 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: the same logo as in the original neo fascist party 689 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: that was founded when Mussolini's party was banned, and she insisted, 690 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: this is what's interesting. Some people in her party said 691 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: we should get rid of that flame, it's kind of 692 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: outing us. She insisted on keeping it, and even Missolini's 693 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: granddaughter Kele, who is a politician in her Party wanted 694 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: to get rid of that flame. It's the wink wink thing. 695 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: Oh we're fascist, but we're not going to say we're fascist. 696 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: And Instaid Maloney is the hard She's hardcore and she 697 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: insisted to this day on keeping that flame in there. 698 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's highly significant because she is carrying forth. 699 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: Her mission is to carry forth this far right tradition 700 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: into government, and they've always wanted to get back into 701 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: government since the fascist years, and now now they are. 702 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: She joined the Fascist Party when she yes. I really 703 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: can't emphasize enough. This is somebody who was a hardcore 704 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: and we didn't call them skinheads, but this is the 705 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: equivalent of what she was. She joined a fifteen and 706 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: she had a meteoric rise. He's very, very tough, she's 707 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: very extreme, and so she became It was a big 708 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: deal that a woman became the head of the student organization. 709 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: And in my Atlantic piece I linked to I thought, 710 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, okay, let's really go and see what this 711 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: party is about. And so you always want to go 712 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: to the student wings of these parties because they are 713 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: more radical and you find stuff that you don't find 714 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: in the kind of attempting to be mainstream regular platform. 715 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: So if you go to the homepage of the of 716 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: the site, and I linked to it in the Atlantic article, 717 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: the graphic is of young people silhouetted raising their arms. 718 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: Now it's the wink wink thing, because are they doing 719 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: a fascist salute their arms are raised, or they just 720 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: like at a pop concert or whatever. But she comes 721 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: from a real militancy and my also in the NCBC piece, 722 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: I linked to a terrifying speech she gave this past 723 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: June at a rally in Spain of the far right 724 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: Fox Party. If you listen to it, you don't even 725 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: need to know Spanish. She is a demagogue. She's screaming, 726 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: she's haranguing, she's putting forth this black and white worldview. 727 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 1: And I truly, I don't say this slightly. She truly 728 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: reminded me of Mussolini. I wrote a book on fascist propaganda. 729 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: I've spent so many hours looking at Mussolini speaking and 730 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: it's really disturbing. And she did speak at Spak to Yes. 731 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: So it's really important that, and there's been some reluctance 732 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: to do this in the States, that the GOP is 733 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: not only remaking itself as an authoritarian party with all 734 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: the things we see going on, pushing out moderates, encouraging 735 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: extremists to come in. But they are part of a 736 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: transnational far right network. And Maloney and I have the 737 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: quote in the Atlantic article or not actually in the MSPC. 738 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: It says very matter of factly that we see the 739 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: GOP as one of our own. They're like, you know, 740 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: or Bons Party, They're like the Published Party. And so 741 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: she's long been a presence in American far right politics. 742 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: She's been to see Pack, she's been to the National 743 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: Prayer Breakfast, She's very close for many years with Bannon, 744 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: and so it's very normal for her to see the 745 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: GOP as another far right party, and that's important for 746 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: Americans to hear. Pretty scary. Yes, So one of the 747 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: things that people are saying that are the people I 748 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: know are Italian? Or is that the way the Italian 749 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: government is set up will prevent her from taking power? 750 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Somewhat? In fact, the 751 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: constitution they made a new constitution in n and the 752 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: point of this constitution was to make sure there was 753 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,359 Speaker 1: no MUSLINI ever again, and so they did a lot 754 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: of curtailing of the powers of all of the executive 755 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: and they made it into what people call a party ocracy, 756 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: so that party has had a lot of power and 757 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: not people. And this is why there's been so many 758 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: romans and a lot of turmoil. There's many parties and 759 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: it's easy to mix in, you know, re shift and 760 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: juggle so that governments can come and go. But they 761 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: are very interested Maloney's party in reforming the constitution to 762 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,800 Speaker 1: make the presidency a more powerful office. That's something that 763 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: we need to think about. They really want to reform 764 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: the constitution. So it's true that I have heard myself, 765 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: I have lived in Italy for many years, of many 766 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: Italian friends and colleagues. There's a lot of consoling going 767 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: on and saying either that she's not going to last 768 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: because she's going to be out within a year, and 769 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: also what you said that all these governments come and go, 770 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: what does it all mean? But I argue that once 771 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: you have each extremist experiment, and this is an experiment, 772 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: no matter how long or short it lasts, it stays 773 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: in the system. It breaks taboos, and it resets it's 774 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: as oh, you know, the Overton window. It's as though 775 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: it resets what the norm is to now allow that possibility, 776 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: and so I don't care if she falls after ten months. 777 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: The fact that there's this precedent you'll see, shifts everything 778 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: further to the right. Right, and fascism should not be 779 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: a normal political party. No, But that's why there's so 780 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: much reluctance. And it doesn't only come from the right, 781 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,760 Speaker 1: which is so busy. You just see my inbox trying 782 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: to insist that she's just a conservative as well as 783 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, Michael Tracy. Twitter is full of it, as 784 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: well as my inbox, and there's all kinds of other 785 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: ideas that fascism is left wing, so she can't be 786 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: a fascist. All these things are being thrown out now 787 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: to avoid dealing with the fact that she's a fascist. 788 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: And so I'm very hard line on this, and I 789 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: know Italians are not thrilled, some of them with me 790 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: being so hardline, because they do want to say, well, 791 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: it's all going to go away and doesn't mean anything. 792 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: I love Italy and I think it means something, and 793 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 1: I'm devastated. Yeah, I love Italy too, and I've spent 794 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time there in my you know, as 795 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,479 Speaker 1: a kid, and also you know, and at other times, 796 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: and so for me. I am devastated too, but I 797 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: do think that you know, again, it's never good, right, 798 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't move us in the right direction, do you worry? 799 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: I mean she has been more nuanced about Ukraine. She has. 800 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: She's very proputent and up through two thousand nineteen, I 801 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: mean she's you know, wishing him publicly happy re election, 802 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: all of that since the war began, because she's a pragmatist. 803 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: When the reason she may not disappear overnight is that, 804 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: like MUSSLINI, she's able to say one thing to one 805 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: group of people and the opposite to another group of people. 806 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 1: So one op ed by an Italian I read says 807 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: she's a political charmer and the people who love Mario 808 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: Draggy are in dialogue with her and the hard light 809 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,720 Speaker 1: fascist really and so she's going to be an Atlanticist 810 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: and she's going to be pro EU, even though all 811 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,280 Speaker 1: of her public pronouncements are like crazy anti EU stuff, 812 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: and she's so pro Ukraine. But there are others, more 813 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: subtle ways she can, like Orbon, you do one thing 814 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: and you do the opposite thing at the same time, 815 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: and that's all the autocrats I've studied do this. So 816 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: she can indeed continue saying, yes, we should send weapons 817 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: to Ukraine, but also make very sure that there's no 818 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: more confiscating Russian oligarchs properties in Italy or there's no 819 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: support in subtle ways for sanctions on Russia. And I 820 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: would expect her, as a as a little autocrat, to 821 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: in fact play this double game. So interesting. Thank you, Ruth, 822 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: This was great, sir, Yeah, it's great. I'm glad. You're 823 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:59,720 Speaker 1: really glad we were able to talk. Molly John Fast 824 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon. I have a special treat for you. I know, 825 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,879 Speaker 1: I feel like you don't feel like you don't even 826 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: know what it is. I told you I was going 827 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: to make it a surprise. It's like you don't be 828 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: After taping four hundred podcasts episodes to get the Man, 829 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,880 Speaker 1: do you like to call Congress? But dentist Paul Gossar 830 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: he has some very striking thoughts on what Republicans should 831 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 1: do if they take power again. Jesus Christ, our first 832 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: step is making sure we have all the federal buildings 833 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: I identified launitude of latitude. Put those under the federal 834 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: jurisdiction of the Home governor, oversight the Congress. Indeed, the 835 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: rest of Washington he see back to Maryland. We didn't. 836 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: We have already set the president with Virginia some time back. 837 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: So no, I not get this over. I mean, I 838 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: don't know, not the craziest thing Paul Gossar has said, 839 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: and probably not the worst, thank you said, but I 840 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: do think you know, look, Paul go Sar is clearly 841 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: pretty committed to not letting d C be a state. 842 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: As our most Republicans they are quite against DC statehood 843 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: as they are against Puerto Rican statehood too, because you know, 844 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: they know that if they if people vote, they lose, right. 845 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: So continually try to consolidate power to senators from d 846 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,759 Speaker 1: C puts Republicans at and even worse disadvantage very fast. 847 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 1: It would just make Paul and Louie Gomert. I mean, 848 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 1: think about how upset Louis would be. By the way, 849 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 1: where his term is by January, there will be no more. 850 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,160 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Molly, we're three months away from 851 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,760 Speaker 1: Louie never having to go to Washington, d C ever again, 852 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,800 Speaker 1: just be in Texas making trouble. That's it for this 853 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and 854 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,759 Speaker 1: Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense 855 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,839 Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you towards what you've heard, 856 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 857 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: And again thanks for listening. M m HM