1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Big shout out to our super producer 4 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: Who uh, no, I did it wrong again? It's either 6 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: one works, man, No, I don't want to know the 7 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: right one. What's the proper military? It's hoorah, guys, whorah. 8 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: Yeah we got there. We also have company. You're Noel Brown, 9 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm Ben Bowling. We had an astonishing bit of luck recently, folks. 10 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Funny thing happened on the way to this studio. As 11 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: they say, it all began when we started talking about obituaries. 12 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 3: Right. 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: They're a genre of literature all their own sadness, but 14 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: surprisingly there's often a touch of whimsy and a little 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: bit of a spite at times. But yeah, more than anything, right, 16 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree there's a profound humanness 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: to them, and they provide a unique insight into history. 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: This led us to know the absolute best exploration of 19 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: obituaries in all of podcastory, all of broadcasting. 20 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 4: I would say, podcastdom. 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's American English, right, we're freestyling. Uh, we 22 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: cannot wait to explore Mobituaries with Mo Raka, created and 23 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: hosted by none other than a personal hero of ours, Max. 24 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: Can I get some like drum like? Yeah, yeah, perfect? Uh, 25 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the journals, the humorous, the author and all around top 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: notch man of letters, mister Moe Rocket get this, Nol, 27 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: the man himself is here with me. 28 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 4: Here. 29 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's right here, Mo, thank you for joining. 30 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: Us, Thank you for having me. I'm sitting on my 31 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: throne in podcasting. I just yeah, I just made it 32 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 3: up myself, the throne. I'm actually standing. But thank you 33 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: for that introduction. 34 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: I've always been a fan of the word christendom, you know, 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: like in King Arthur Tales, and I've never fully understood 36 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: what I get the gist. 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 4: It just has a weight to it. 38 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: But I think applying that to the world of podcasting 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: is appropriate. 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 3: Mo. 41 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 4: Well, do you know what christendom means in that parliance? 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: You know? But I don't know exactly, but I do 43 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 3: know that I hear like the strains of Camelot in 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: the back and ground. I just want Richard Burton to 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 3: come in here and start narrating this podcast. 46 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 2: This episode has something to do with Christianity. 47 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, this is so. 48 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: We are as as you could tell them what we like. 49 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: You are huge fans of history. You've always had this 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: abiding interest in history through a very i would say, 51 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: human perspective, like what is the soul of the story? 52 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: And that really shows that really comes out and presents 53 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: in mobituaries. I think Noel and me and our fellow 54 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: listeners playing along at home would love to hear a 55 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: bit of an origin story. How did mobituaries come to be? 56 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: Well? I did begin to love obituaries in part. I 57 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: think it was first of all, as I myself was 58 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: getting older, I inherited it from my father. My father 59 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: loved obituaries and he wasn't a gloomy guy at all. 60 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 3: Growing up and in the Washington, DC area, there were 61 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: two daily papers when I was a kid, and my 62 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: father would read them, both the Washington Star and the 63 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: Washington Post, and he'd say, oh boy, the obituaries is 64 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: my favorite section of the paper. And I think he 65 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: liked it because it had you know, if it's if 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: it's done right, there's like a real sense of romance 67 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 3: and of sweep, and it's sort of like the highs, 68 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: the lows, the triumphs, the tragedies, and when you read them, 69 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: you can if they're done right, it's it does sort 70 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: of feel like a like a like a trailer for 71 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: an Oscar winning biopic sort of. And I think that's 72 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: probably where I kind of got the like for them. 73 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: And then as I got older, I continued reading them 74 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: and it seemed like a great way to do a 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: profile of a person, to tell a person's story, you know. 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: And as I started meeting obituary writers, I found out 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 3: that it's a kind of a more and more coveted beat, 78 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: you know, I mean print journalism. Obviously things are really 79 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: really rough and not getting any better unfortunately. But I 80 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: think it used to be I guess pun intended sort 81 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 3: of a graveyard for writers where they'd end up at 82 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 3: the end of their careers. But but now I think, 83 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: you know, the o bit writers at the Washington Post, 84 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 3: they've got a really vibrant department there, and uh and 85 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: you know, the head over there said, look, it's like 86 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: you're you get to write for sports, you get to 87 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: write for business, you get to write for entertainment because 88 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: it depends who dies. And also just it's it's handy 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 3: having a first name like Mo because you can turn 90 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: it into a bunch of different things. And you know, 91 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: if my name were Cecil or something, I wouldn't have 92 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: a podcast. So yeah, way. 93 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: And in the modern time too, it's interesting to think 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: about all of the ongoing iterations that an obituary goes 95 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: through before the person even dies. And there have been 96 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: cases where it accidentally got leaked or something and it 97 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: was mispublished. And you know, what must that be like 98 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: to be that person that's constantly updating the obituary of 99 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: a very prolific artist or a musician or you know, personality. 100 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 4: And then finally when it's time to pull. 101 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: The trigger, you've kind of been working on it ongoingly 102 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: for some time, right. 103 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: I know, you know it's there. There was this great 104 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: documentary I wish I could remember the name of it, 105 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: about the New York Times obituary department a few years ago. 106 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: It'll come to me. But there is the guy who 107 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 3: would go down basically into the dungeon and pull up 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: these obituaries when they needed updates. Some of them were 109 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: just print, they hadn't even been digitized. And I think 110 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: there's a record for how long the gap was between 111 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 3: something being written and something being published. And it was 112 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: an Ada trix of course, like remember Ada Trixes. And 113 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: it was some daredevil young woman who was a pilot 114 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: I think in her teens and then lived until her nineties, 115 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: so that it had been like over eighty years. What 116 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 3: I found fascinating with the obituary writers I met I'll 117 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: never get over this is one of the writers at 118 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: the Times told me that there are people who cold 119 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 3: call the Times to talk about their own obituary. I mean, 120 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: if that isn't confidence, crazy hutspell, Like, Hi, I'm calling 121 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 3: to talk about you know, I just thought I had 122 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: some free time, and I'm calling to talk about the 123 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: obituary you are already writing about me. 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 4: Is that confidence or conceitedness? 125 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, it's worse than that. And I would 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: be so tempted to just say, you know, we're still 127 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 3: on the fence. We're just. 128 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is our thing. Yeah, I would live your life. 129 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: If you If you accomplish a little bit more in 130 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: these last years, then I think it'll push you over 131 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: the top into contention. 132 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 133 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: As far as getting getting covered, it's almost like getting 134 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: your wedding covered by the New York Times. 135 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 4: Big get for so many people. 136 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: Who Yeah, uh, there's also Uh, it's funny to me 137 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: that you talk about that that record for our Avia tricks, 138 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: our aviator, right, because just clocked what you. 139 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 4: Meant by that word. By the way, I get it now, 140 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 4: demand of letters tell you that's good. 141 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: I would say my money would have originally been on 142 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger because I feel like people kept writing that obituary. 143 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 4: And uh, what a complex legacy. I mean, awful guy. 144 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 2: I think we would maybe agree, maybe not, but very 145 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: complex and how do you sum that life up? 146 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: Well? I know it's also interesting. It would be interesting 147 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,559 Speaker 3: to see all the different versions to see where things fall, 148 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: like I you know, with Jimmy Carter, where his post 149 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: presidency falls versus his presidency itself. I mean, that's definitely 150 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 3: changed over the years. I think that Bill Clinton impeachment, 151 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: I'd be really curious where that falls at this point. 152 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 3: It's probably moved up down. I mean it'll probably be 153 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: in that first line, you know, you know William Jefferson 154 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: Clinton Comma, the forty second president who also Coma died today. 155 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: But that that clause, that's where everything's really packed in there. 156 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: But how it changes. Yeah, Another one that's wild is 157 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: is when somebody has lived so long that people have 158 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: forgotten who they are, but they were still important. So 159 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 3: Madame chen Kaishak, the wife of the Chinese nationalist leader, 160 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: I think she lived. I had to check this. I 161 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: think she lived until she was at one hundred and six, 162 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: and it had been so long since she was, you know, 163 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 3: at the center of the world. And news that I 164 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 3: was by one of four people who read the whole 165 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 3: oh bit, and it was incredibly long, this obek because 166 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: it clearly had been written at a time when her 167 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 3: death would have been really big news. But she just 168 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 3: lived so long. 169 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: And this is something that I think we all really 170 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: enjoy with mobituaries, because again I keep coming back to 171 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: the way that you explore history in such a human, 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: soulful perspective. I also have to give a shout out 173 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: to my Grandmother's Ravioli. 174 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 4: Thank you, not specifically yours, but the program. Yeah, my grandmother. 175 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: It was just one of my mom's favorite shows. 176 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: Kidding, no, no, I'm so happy to hear that I loved. 177 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: You know, both both the mobituaries and my grandmothers were 178 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: Abbioli were projects that I felt very very personally about, 179 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: and and hey, yeah, I loved doing it so much. 180 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: I went for those who don't know. I went around 181 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: the country learning to cook from grandmothers and grandfathers in 182 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 3: their kitchens. But it was really about learning who they 183 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: were in their life story and what mattered to them, 184 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 3: and just having fun with them. Also. I loved it 185 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: so much, So thank you Ben. 186 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: Oh Well, there's so much history and love and you know, 187 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: caring built into recipes, the way they're kept, you know, 188 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: the handwritten notes and the iterations, and maybe some of 189 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: them are just committed to memory and passed down through 190 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: family members. All of that I just think, in and 191 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: of it's another example much like obituaries, where it's sort 192 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 2: of a backdoor into. 193 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 4: History in a very interesting way. 194 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. 195 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: Have you encountered things in your in your work, because 196 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: we're four seasons in obituaries, have you encountered have you 197 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: encountered stories that really surprised you, like in an unexpected way, 198 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: because each each one feels so unique, you know, it 199 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: feels like every I feel almost like I'm asking you 200 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: if you have a favorite child, but I'm not, I promise, 201 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: like the ones that like hit you, similar to Madam, 202 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: to Madame Chang Kaishek's thing where you thought, oh, I 203 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: thought this would be pretty simple, but holy smokes, the 204 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: plotswist here. 205 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there definitely have been those. I mean, 206 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: I think Chang and Aang, the original so called Siamese 207 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: twins where that that term came from, who were from 208 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: Siam what is now Thailand and moved to the United 209 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: States as teenagers and became from some of the first 210 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: celebrities in America when the only thing that Americans had 211 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: has past times in the nineteenth century early nineteenth century 212 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: was a cock fighting, you know, drinking hard cider and 213 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 3: card playing. And they became really famous, right right, all 214 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: at the same time, and they became really really famous, 215 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: and it was really sort of sweeping story about these 216 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: guys who were exploited and managed to make lives for themselves. 217 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: But as they became successful, they ended up owning a 218 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 3: plantation and owning slaves, and not just slaves, they bought 219 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 3: very young slaves almost as investment properties. So it was 220 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: obviously an incredibly ugly side to that story, but I 221 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: liked doing the story because it they kind of packed 222 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 3: all of America into their lives. They were an immigrant story. 223 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: They really had pulled themselves up from their bootstraps. It 224 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: was a story about celebrity, It was a story about 225 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 3: racial prejudice, and then it was against them, and then 226 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 3: it was a story about assimilation, and then about slavery. 227 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 3: So it was like whoa. It was like taking all 228 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: of American history and combining it into one story. And 229 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 3: you know, I like doing it because I don't think 230 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 3: I think we took care with that, but we didn't 231 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 3: tiptoe and I was very happy about that because I 232 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: don't think people want people tiptoeing around this stuff. And 233 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: you know, either. 234 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 5: Way, it's interesting too because a lot of the purpose 235 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: and I would love to hear your thoughts on what 236 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 5: you think the purpose of an obituary is, but is 237 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 5: to kind of set the record straight in a way. 238 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: It's like sort of to prevent in some ways as 239 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: a functional item, you know, people from spreading rumors about someone's. 240 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: Life or what they may or may not have done. 241 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: And it's sort of meant to be this pithy, definitive, 242 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: you know, declaration of what a person, who a person was. 243 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: Do you have any other maybe ways you could elaborate 244 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 2: on what the purpose of an obituary. 245 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: Is, well, that's interesting. I hadn't even I don't know 246 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: that I've really given it thought in that way. So 247 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 3: I'm I'm happy to do that. I mean, I think 248 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,599 Speaker 3: it's a first draft of history because a lot of 249 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: them do have errors. So there have been there there 250 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 3: have been obituaries that I've loved, like Irving Berlin, and 251 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: I can't cite exactly what was wrong, but when you 252 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: go back and fact check it, now there were just 253 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: think that we're wrong. And uh. I think the trick though, 254 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: is that it kind of has to to be faithful 255 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 3: to the person. It does have to have head and 256 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: heart in it. So I think that's why it's important 257 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 3: that reporters when they do these obituaries, or we when 258 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 3: we do these these podcasts obituaries, try to talk to 259 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: relatives about how they felt about a person, because feeling 260 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 3: sounds really obviously inexact and uh, you know, undefinable. But 261 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: it is part of who the person is, what the 262 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 3: person meant to other people, So it's not it can't 263 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 3: just be just the basmam kind of writing. It does 264 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: actually have to it does have to have an emotional component. 265 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: I think actually to be accurate. So it sort of 266 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 3: seems counterintuitive, but I think it. I think it does 267 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: have to do that as opposed to say, just reporting 268 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 3: on like election returns or something. 269 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, and spoiler for later in today's program 270 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: by pal Noell found some obituaries that we would like 271 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: to share with you later on for some reactions, because again, 272 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: it's such a you know, it is inherently a tragedy 273 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: whenever someone passes, right, even if you don't particularly care 274 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: for them, But it also has this amazing opportunity. I 275 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: really do believe it is a genre of literature and 276 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: should be considered as such. But we could talk literature later. 277 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: We have as we tease the earlier we have thought arduously 278 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: mo about things of yesteryear. Our conversation was not just 279 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: obituaries for people, right well, we wanted to explore with 280 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: you are somewhat of a swan song for things that 281 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: have passed, and Noy Nolan and I were very excited 282 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: about this one. No where do where do you think 283 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: we start? Do we embarrass ourselves with our telling more 284 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: group text about pagers? 285 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 4: You mean in general? 286 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 5: Oh? 287 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, in general? 288 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do occasionally it's sort of professionals at embarrassing ourselves. 289 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 4: But we're okay with that. We lead into it. Yeah, Pagers. 290 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because I was thinking about the 291 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: idea of dead things, and sometimes a thing can be 292 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: dead in terms of its mainstream use, but it can 293 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: still be very much alive in more of a niche way. 294 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: And I think we live in this era where obsolescence 295 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: is so commonplace and because of the technological you know, 296 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: advancements exponential, I think there's a pushback against it. People 297 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: almost resent it, and a are like, you know, so 298 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: I want to hold on to the things of the past, 299 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 2: you know. 300 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 4: And Ben found a great word. 301 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil it, but yeah, but that 302 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: refers to building things into modern designs that represent the 303 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 2: ways of the past, or something that might be what 304 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: was the word, Ben? 305 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 4: Can you already knows it? 306 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: Skew warfs, you know, like would you have the little 307 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: floppy disk icon on a computer for save? And who 308 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: uses floppy disk? 309 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: Not? 310 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 4: I never thought of that, Yeah, And you pointed out. 311 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 2: I was like, you said it the word, and I 312 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: was like, oh, I immediately understand what that is. But 313 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of examples and Ben pointed out 314 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: in cars, there's a lot of like anachronistic things that 315 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: are built into modern car designs that don't do a thing, 316 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: but they're like mainly ornamental. But in an older model 317 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: car it would have been a very you know, crucial component. 318 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: But it's a way of sort of building the past 319 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 2: for folks that maybe it would give some comfort to 320 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: to the future. But pagers is such an interesting thing 321 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: because it we look at it now and it really 322 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: just screams the nineties, you know. I mean it's like 323 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 2: I had a clear green Motorola pager. You'd get little 324 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: charms for them and stuff, and you know, it went 325 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: from being a thing that only doctors had that almost 326 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: represented this position of prominence to this thing that everybody had. 327 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: I had one when I was, you know, a teenager, 328 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 2: and now it's back around to be you know, went 329 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: from tens of millions of people having pagers to now 330 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 2: it's just a hospital thing again. 331 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 4: So it's sort of gone full circle in a weird way. 332 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: But I just thought it would be interesting to talk 333 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: a little bit about the history of pagers. I didn't 334 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: realize they went back as far as nineteen twenty one. 335 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, they were used. 336 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: It was it was early examples, not a hand you know, 337 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 2: little thing you clip on your telegraph. It was more 338 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: like the wire yes, exactly. It was more like a 339 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: wire service almost. It was essentially a way of transmitting. 340 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: It was a lot more like a telegraph, exactly. Ben 341 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: it was the in nineteen forty nine act. Well, the 342 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: original one was used something akin to what we'd not 343 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: as pagers by the Detroit Police Department in nineteen twenty one, 344 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 2: But in nineteen forty nine, the very first telephonic pager 345 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 2: was used. The adventure was a guy named Al Gross, 346 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: and his pagers were used in New York City's Jewish Hospital. 347 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: And at this point, much like the early telephones, wasn't 348 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: a consumer device. It wasn't available. It was only available 349 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: to professional circles, and then of course into the eighties 350 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: and by the nineties they were everywhere. And I just 351 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: thought it'd be fun to briefly talk about do you 352 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: remember pager codes? 353 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: MO? Did you have a pager? MO? 354 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 3: I don't think that I did. I think I'm sure 355 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: I wanted one, and if I did, well, you know, 356 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 3: when I worked at piezria UNO's and I was at 357 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: a form of a pager piece when I worked at 358 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: Pizzera Unos, which was very high stressed in Georgetown, because 359 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 3: they had something called the five minute lunch I think 360 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 3: that's what they called it. 361 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 2: And if you didn't get it, if it arrives or 362 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: you get it free or something like that by clime exactly. 363 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 3: And I mean it would create like basically collisions like 364 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 3: in the in the you know, among the waiters because 365 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 3: you were rushing to get the personal sized pizza to 366 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: the table in five minutes. But I think were there 367 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 3: must have been some buzzer system that told us and 368 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 3: maybe when I when I actually delivered pizza also, But yeah, 369 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 3: but I don't think I ever had one kind of 370 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 3: yeah that would I just clip to my belt that 371 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 3: I'd just wear during during the day. Did either of 372 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 3: you guys have that? 373 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 4: Or yeah I did, and I know Ben said he 374 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 4: had he had one as well. 375 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like I need to preface this, guys. 376 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: I had two pagers. I was not a drug dealer. 377 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: I was a very straight laced kid. I was also 378 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: not a doctor. 379 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: I was doogie houser. 380 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: I just had helicopter parents, you know. So, uh, the 381 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting too with the pagers, is now 382 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: we're not just talking about an artifact, a physical device. 383 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about a medium of communication, right, And so 384 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: some of these codes, maybe I'm going to be quizzed 385 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: along with you. Mo nol is our quiz master for this. 386 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: We're going to see whether we can guess the meaning 387 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: of some codes, and I'll try to help out the 388 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: team as best that I could. 389 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 4: But no, no, that's a great setup. Bend. 390 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 2: Just just to add, it wasn't until nineteen fifty eight 391 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 2: that the FCC approved the pager for public use, and 392 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 2: then Motorola swooped in in nineteen fifty nine, creating a 393 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: personal radio communicator's kind. 394 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 4: Of what they call it wasn't even called a pager. 395 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 4: They did coin the term. 396 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: They coined the term pager Motorola Company. But these early 397 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: ones looked more like walkie talkies. I mean, they were 398 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: absolutely massive. But into the eighties and nineties, like I 399 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 2: was saying, you know, the whole purpose of a pager 400 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: is you also it required another thing, you know, you 401 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: had to have a phone, right, So I've always found 402 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: them to be a little clunky, but it made sense 403 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 2: because you would page somebody from a phone with the 404 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: number of the phone, and then they would call you back. 405 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 4: That was the intent of the way it was originally 406 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 4: set up. 407 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: But if you got a little clever, you could like 408 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: do an early form of texting just by using alpha numeric, 409 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: you know, things that maybe represented the way it would 410 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: sound when you'd say the numbers out loud, or maybe 411 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: it was meant to be flipped upside down, or a 412 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: one would represent a and the alphabet you know, et cetera. 413 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: You could you know, do like send kind of complex 414 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: messages like that, at least limited by the size of 415 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: the screen. So typically these were pithy, kind of three 416 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: to five characters. So one that I think maybe is 417 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: an easy one that most people might remember is one four. 418 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 4: Three, yeah, I do one one. People still use this today. 419 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: It's a check mark if right. I'm just looking at 420 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 3: thinking of a phone like that. 421 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 4: Should that's good? 422 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: Think more in terms of the this is you'd have 423 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: to know what the thing was, and this couldn't be 424 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 2: interchange with other things. Each number represents the number of 425 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: letters in the word. 426 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: Oh, oh, yes, I love yeah, I love you very 427 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Next, can we get like applause or you win? 428 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: Kind of sorry going to full game show guys. All right? Uh? 429 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: That okay? That one I think stood out and that 430 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: was a great hint. Noal uh, it's the number of layers. 431 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: This reminds me of talking about ciphers and codes, because 432 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: that's really everybody with a pager becomes a cryptographer at 433 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: some point. 434 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 4: It sounds like, right, it's weird though on this. 435 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: I found this site like on Reddit where they're like 436 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 2: a like a listicle of all of these or some 437 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: of them kind of collated. And another version of I 438 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: love you is eight three one because it's eight letters, 439 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: three words one meaning it's kind it's a little hammy 440 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 2: and that's someone. 441 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: But how did you know who the message was coming from? 442 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 3: Forgetting this? Did the pager indicate who was sending the message? 443 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: I don't think so, because that would have been almost 444 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: like a like a caller ID thing by that point 445 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 2: would have been an extra charge if it was even available, 446 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 2: because a caller ID it was a special box you 447 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 2: had to get. 448 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: It's still nice to get that message to know that someone. 449 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: Sorry, Well here yes, absolutely mo, and I remember now 450 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 2: people would have their own kind of sign offs. Yes, 451 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: so it might be then again, an alphanumeric approximation of 452 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 2: first your first or last name, and it would be 453 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: a known thing. And especially if you start thinking about 454 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 2: the way these were used for things like drug deals 455 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: or more under the radar kind of activities, it would 456 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 2: be like sending ciphers. 457 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it. Also, you know, as someone with 458 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: cartoonish social anxiety, I'm surprised that I survived the pager 459 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: eraic is like if you guys get those texts sometimes 460 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: right where they just say, hey, call me. If they 461 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: don't say what. 462 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 4: Call who. 463 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: I'm going to do one more purely numerical one, and 464 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to do one a different style, and then 465 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 2: I'm out. But you guys might know this, maybe from 466 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: hip hop lyrics. I believe it is a police code. 467 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 2: I know Mo's a big hip hop head, and you'd 468 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 2: likely are, uh, one eight seven. 469 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: Oh dirty pool, it's not good. 470 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 2: It's bad news. The lyric and the in hip hop 471 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: would be one eight seven on a mother fing. 472 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: Cop or the Sublime song. 473 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: He says that in that one too, doesn't he Yeah exactly, 474 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 2: but I believe isn't he is an he referencing something 475 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 2: in in another song? 476 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 4: Maybe not, I don't know. 477 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 3: Seven I just keep thinking over eating. I ate seven 478 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: of what like this? 479 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: This would be a reference, Yeah, that is this would 480 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 2: be a reference to a literal I believe police code 481 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: like fifty one. Fifty is a code for someone who 482 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 2: is having a psychiatric break and needs to be committed 483 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: or something. So one eight seven is a police scanner 484 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: code for murder. Oh okay, wow, So if you send 485 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: somebody one eight seven, that's bad news. 486 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 4: Or if you're good. 487 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: Again, if you get that, if you have your pager 488 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: and you don't know exactly who's texting you and you 489 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: get what eight seven, that's terrified. 490 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean it could being sure, it could 491 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: be rad as I'm going to kill you, right. 492 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 4: If there's no other context. 493 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: No, and that kind of aggression causes hypertension. It's like, yeah, anyway, 494 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 3: if you're on the receiving end of that, you don't 495 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 3: want that. 496 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: Kill you slowly by sending you cryptic Uh you know, 497 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: it's the spirited messages. 498 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: It's up there with nine to one one. 499 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 4: And by the way, that was a big thing. 500 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: If any of my middle school friends are listening, you guys, 501 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: it was never an emergency. 502 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 4: Never was it. Ever. 503 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: You could just send one, four three. People would just 504 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: done one one. At the end of the time, I 505 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 2: do think this is all coming back to me. Now 506 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: this is my last one. This is think of this 507 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: one in terms of like this. These are numbers that 508 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 2: represent letters visually. So we've got six thousand, asterisk eight 509 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 2: four three six oh oh oh asterisk just to just 510 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: to indicate a space. 511 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: Oh ass just for the space, yeah, six thousand space 512 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 3: and what was after the asterisk eight for to three. 513 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I need a little pad of paper. 514 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, you probably always like. 515 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 3: Want it to be Teddy Roosevelt, because I feel like 516 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 3: it should be like glasses and a mustarda like vis 517 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 3: there's a way I think with like numbers to make 518 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 3: a Teddy Roosevelt or something. But anyway, oh gosh, yeah, 519 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 3: I want to know about this. Yeah, I don't know what. 520 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: These are so esoteric, weird, they're barely meant to be solved. 521 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: You're closed, go something. Think about this. 522 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: The two o's in the middle represent one letter, and 523 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: the final O is meant to be a different letter, 524 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 2: but it's the same number. 525 00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 4: I'm gonna give. 526 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 2: Okay, it would be goodbye, goodbye, six thousand. Well, you 527 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 2: have to think about these two in terms of the blocky, 528 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: little little digity numbers. So the six looks a lot 529 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: like a G, and the o's you know, can be 530 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: a an O or a D. And then eight for 531 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: three the four is the Y and three is a 532 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: weird backwards E. 533 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 3: I actually find goodbye more menacing than one eight seven. 534 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 4: It's like I'll never see you again. 535 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's already done. 536 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the hit Man is on the way. Yeah. 537 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: How I feel when people end the text with a period, 538 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: I feel period, See we are we are not the same, Ben, 539 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: we'd not you and I, but we are in many ways. 540 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 4: That was my little. 541 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: Little blast from the past with page and then again 542 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 2: I thought it was an interesting twist MO because you know, 543 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: again there were millions of folks. This is there's a 544 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: you know, a massive moment for these things with consumers. 545 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: They started exclusively in hospitals, and now they're exclusively once 546 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: again in hospitals. So not dead, but certainly not alive 547 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: in the same way that it once was. So I 548 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: think that counts. 549 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 3: It reminds you. By the way, a little bit of 550 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 3: CB radios, which I wanted to do them a victuary on, 551 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: but it turned out that they weren't dead. The CBE 552 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: radios still and I'm really bad with this, but they're 553 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: there if everything else goes down in the world. 554 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: But screemon zombie shows all the time. Someone's got one 555 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: of those laying around zombie shows like Apocalyptos. Right, it's 556 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: a big deal if they have a CBE radio because 557 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: there are people that have them still and they work. 558 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: And also the name Ham Radio just confused and bedeviled 559 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: me for a long time, as. 560 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 4: It's not the same as CB is it. I'm confused too, 561 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 4: I think they're different. 562 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: Okay, but the one thing is that the Ham radio 563 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: name is misleading, especially for someone like me who is 564 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: always low key starving. 565 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 4: You know, it's not powered by Ham. 566 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: Then they don't even talk about Ham most of the time. 567 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: It like occasionally comes up in their conversations. Anyway, I put, 568 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: do you go Ham? When you use the Ham radio, 569 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: you're just yelling at people and just being really aggressive. 570 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: This is a dumb and true story. As a boy scout, 571 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: I got a Ham radio and I figured out it 572 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: wasn't like a secret network of food fans. 573 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 4: And I put it in the attic. 574 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: Can you look at this point, though, I suggest, with 575 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: this wonderful history of the Pager, mo, if you were 576 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: to be so kind, could you give our listeners playing 577 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: along at home a bit of an off the cuff 578 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: obituary for the Pager anything you'd like to say. 579 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 3: Okay, we should probably start with a cold open one 580 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: four three, I love you, I'm going to kill you, 581 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 3: six thousand asterisk something something something goodbye. 582 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 4: That could be the whole thing. It's poetry. 583 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 3: I'm Morocca, and this is mobituary. Is this moment you 584 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: go the patre a lost language and then we'll just 585 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 3: have to give it a date or something. 586 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 4: You know, that's it. Yeah, poetry, poetry. 587 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: Wow? 588 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: Is there a form though that you have to adhere to? 589 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 2: Is there like a number of word counts? Like what 590 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 2: is the kind of tried and true formula for a 591 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: good obituary? 592 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 4: And like you know and all of that stuff. 593 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 3: Well, I you know that all important first sentence that's 594 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 3: got to be like action packed, that's got to be 595 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 3: a winner, and that is and sometimes they're disappointing. Sometimes 596 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 3: people punt and just sort of say, you know, for 597 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 3: a world leader who lived many many years, I mean 598 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 3: I've seen some that are that are that are real letdowns, 599 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 3: But you got to pack it right in there. And 600 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: you know, in the mobituary's book, in the preface, I 601 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 3: wrote about how you know Bill Cosby's first line is 602 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 3: going to be packed with a lot because of how 603 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: much has happened in his life. So the first paragraph 604 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 3: is usually two sentences. Excuse me. So there's that first line. 605 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 3: So Moroka Kama who blankety blank blank bank bank Kamma 606 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 3: died today. Period he was one hundred and eight years old. 607 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 3: We hope period. But I think I think for the 608 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 3: written ones, the ones I like, they have a very 609 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: a detail usually about the person early in life that 610 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 3: was significant and kind of presaged predicted something larger. So 611 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 3: there's there's a great obituary for Alfred Hitchcock, and I'm 612 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: going to get the age wrong, but it has a 613 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 3: detail that when he was like six or seven in 614 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: the English village he was growing up in that the 615 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 3: local jailer and a kind of early version of a 616 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 3: Scared Straight program, took him to the local jail, threw 617 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: him into a cell, slammed the door behind him and 618 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 3: said that's what happens to bad little boys. 619 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: And that he'd done something yeah, it was degation, no exactly. 620 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that that clanging sound of the door slamming 621 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 3: behind him reverberated in his memory and imprinted itself in 622 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 3: such a way that, at least in the view of 623 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: the obituary writer. This then shows up later in a 624 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 3: lot of his work about mistaken identity and crime and punishment. 625 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 3: And so, I mean, all I can say is, for 626 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: fans of Pitchcock, thank god he was traumatized as a child, 627 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 3: you know, because we wouldn't have had these great movies. 628 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 3: And I can't see a wisame way about like stars 629 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 3: like And this is a little bit of a tangent, 630 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 3: but I kind of do feel that way about like 631 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 3: Sammy Davis Junior and Judy Garland, like two of the 632 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 3: great entertainers of the twentieth century, they didn't have childhoods, and. 633 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 4: That is wrong. 634 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: On the other hand, I think if they had had 635 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 3: normal child elhood's, I don't know that we would have 636 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 3: gotten such great performances out of them. 637 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: You know. That reminds me a little bit of the 638 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: obituary episode on Audrey Hepburn with the yeah, with the 639 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: the facts that the it's like the scars make the 640 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: person in a in a very real way, you know, 641 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: and here's something there's something deep, and you know I 642 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: hesitate to wax philosophical, but there's again there's there's a 643 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: an art, a craft to writing these. I got to 644 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: tell you about one of my favorite ones, uh, in 645 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: my favorite formats is the gallows humor of the satirical 646 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: or whimsical obituary. You know, like you're reading something that 647 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: says h William Jefferson Clinton Comma, amateur saxophonist Comma, Like 648 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: I love that kind of stuff. Have you run across 649 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: obituaries that surprised you with humor? 650 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 3: It's hard me to think of them specifically, but I 651 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 3: know exactly what you're talking about. The British are really 652 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: good with that, are really kind of like, you know, 653 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 3: are kind of racing sometimes at the obits and are 654 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 3: are much are much less reverential. I think also in 655 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 3: this age of paid death notices obituary, obituary writers are 656 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 3: extremely sensitive about being lumped in with the paid death notices, 657 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 3: where you know, families put these things together and then 658 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: just buy space on. 659 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 4: The paper such as a distinction. 660 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're super sensitive about that, and uh, and it's 661 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 3: actually the paid death notices are frankly keeping a lot 662 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 3: of small town papers alive because it's a really important and. 663 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 4: Consider that an obituary at all. It is and it isn't. 664 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 3: Kind of right, it's technically not an obituary. It's not reported, 665 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 3: it's a it's a it's submitted by a family member 666 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: or a loved one. But those sometimes are really funny. 667 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 3: I've read some. I wish I could give you more 668 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: specific examples, but but I've read some that are very, 669 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 3: very funny about you know, you know, one written very 670 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 3: life by a son about a mother I think in Florida, 671 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 3: who was She was just really profane, but the son 672 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 3: clearly loved her, and it really painted a picture that 673 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 3: it's like a future Oscar winner, like winning role if 674 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 3: somebody portrays that person. 675 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: I just think that's such an important distinction, because I 676 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 2: think what most people think of obituaries as are those things. 677 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, now they do, Yeah, because few people get the 678 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: real obituary. 679 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got I've got one that fits exactly what 680 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, gentlemen, from the Fayetteville Observer, and 681 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: in depth thing will just give you the beginning. This 682 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: is an obituary for Renee mandel Horn, and it goes 683 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: like this, el Paso, Texas, a plus size Jewish lady 684 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: redneck died in El Paso on Saturday. Of itself, hardly 685 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: news or good news if you're the type that subscribes 686 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: to the notion that anybody not named you dying in 687 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: El Paso, Texas is. 688 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 4: Good niece not named you? 689 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, in which case, have I got news for you? 690 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: The body fertile, redheaded matriarch of a sprawling Jewish Mexican 691 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,439 Speaker 1: redneck American family has kicked it and this is this 692 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: is like written by her children, and there's so much 693 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: love in it. But it's almost like a Friar's Club 694 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: roast or something the way it just gets. 695 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 3: And Ben, I have actually thank you for reading that 696 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 3: it is. People should go and find it. I have 697 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 3: read that it is really great. 698 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: Okay, so you like that one as well. It passes 699 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: like the obituaries test. 700 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 3: What a great way to send off someone you love 701 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 3: with humor that way. Well, also because I remember reading 702 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 3: that it went viral, I think, and I'm pretty sure 703 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 3: it did. And I think the reason is that it's 704 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 3: so great is because it's written in the spirit with 705 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 3: which the woman lived your life. If you were really 706 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 3: just to give the facts of that woman's life, it 707 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 3: wouldn't do her justice, or even talking about how to 708 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 3: people felt about her would still not do her justice. 709 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: This family went one better and they actually wrote it 710 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 3: in the style in which in a style that reflected 711 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 3: who she was. I mean, that's that's like, really that 712 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 3: is really a tribute our literature. 713 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: Nerd stuff is coming out too, because you're talking about 714 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 1: how the aesthetic of the form. 715 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the form reflected her. 716 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crafted in her image. 717 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 3: Wow, it was a roast, as you put it, It's 718 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 3: a roast of a woman who probably loved roasts, right, Like, 719 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 3: I always thought that Bob Barker's I had this image 720 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 3: for a long time that his would have been written 721 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 3: almost like like a plinko board from like trisis right? 722 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 3: Like the column. I always thought it would be kind 723 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 3: of interesting if like the first column and it kind 724 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 3: of shifted and then would like almost like the path 725 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 3: that the that the coin makes you're during a successful plinko? 726 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 4: Is that done though? Like a house of leaves kind 727 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 4: of a approach? 728 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: Right? Like? 729 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 2: So is that a thing I would love to see 730 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 2: really mega out there weirdo creative obituaries. 731 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. Yeah, I'm trying, Yeah, I think 732 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 3: it would be great. I'm trying to think, who is 733 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 3: a luminary now in what form their op it would take? Yeah, 734 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 3: that would reflect who they are. I mean, I just 735 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 3: suppose you like a poet should be kind of written 736 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: in poetry, right, Like you know, I hope Theodore guyse 737 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 3: ELL's I hope was in rhyme. You know, when doctor 738 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 3: Seuss died. I don't know, somebody hoped it that way. 739 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: Ezra Pounds was like twenty eight pages. It got edited 740 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: down to two lines or something. 741 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 3: And at the end it was incredibly anti semitic, and 742 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 3: at the end it was super that's the lotrap with 743 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 3: just anti semitism. 744 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: Right, So we also see, like you know, I do 745 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: want to make sure we also mentioned the title of 746 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: the book. This is not just a podcast, folks, mobituaries 747 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: Great Lives worth reliving. 748 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 4: This is. 749 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: Tell Us again at home, tell Us the order of operations? 750 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: Which came first? Was it the So we've got the 751 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: inspiration the interest. Growing up, your father is regularly reading 752 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: newspapers for obituaries in DC, and you have that lifelong 753 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: love of history coupled with this, do you create the 754 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: book first and then the podcast or. 755 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 3: Well, i'll give you a sort of the blunt sort 756 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 3: of business kind of background on it. I had this 757 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 3: interest in obits, and Simon and Schuster said, we'd love 758 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 3: you to do a book and a podcast about this, 759 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 3: but the book can't just be the podcast, which I 760 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 3: wouldn't want to do anyway. I wouldn't want to just 761 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 3: do a podcast and then take the transcripts and put 762 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 3: it into a book. So they were really done in parallel. 763 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 3: But what was interesting to me is I realized, and 764 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 3: I think you guys can understand, certainly understand this, is 765 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 3: that for an audio, for the audio medium, you know, 766 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 3: it's much it's much more satisfying to do subjects that 767 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 3: are from the recorded era, the sound recorded era, so 768 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 3: it's much harder. So when we did a podcast, I 769 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 3: love the creative challenge of doing the podcast episode about 770 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 3: Tom Payne, but you know, he died before there was 771 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 3: any recorded sound and so it required a different kind 772 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 3: of creativity. But for the most part, doing somebody like 773 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 3: a Sammy Davis Junior or an Audrey Hepburn, you know, 774 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 3: it made more sense for the podcast, and then for 775 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 3: the book, doing ancient things like you know, death of 776 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 3: cities and countries and things from the ancient world were 777 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 3: more appropriate. So that's kind of how some stuff ended 778 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 3: up in the book and some stuff ended up on 779 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 3: the podcast. 780 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 4: Okay, sense. 781 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 2: Also, I mean we've found too that you know, a 782 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 2: lot of times, despite the best efforts of you know, 783 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 2: voice performers who do the audiobook version, things that are 784 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 2: written to be read are often not the same as 785 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 2: things that are written to be spoken. 786 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 3: Well that's true. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And 787 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 3: and yeah, so things that were written to be read 788 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 3: it ended up in the book. 789 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, hold the payphone spoilers, folks, This is going to 790 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: be a two parter. We were so excited in a 791 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: wide ranging conversation with mister Moraka and Nola's just so 792 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: generous with his time. We get weird with it. This 793 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: guy knows a lot of stuff about a lot of things. 794 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing we went in with like this 795 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 2: whole format where we were going to do like all 796 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 2: of us, we're going to bring like a dead thing 797 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 2: and you know, do it like we do with some 798 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 2: other guests, where we each kind of have our own 799 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 2: little segment, but it ended up just organically having so 800 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 2: much to offer the conversation that we you know, sprinkle 801 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 2: that in here and there, you're gonna get some dead things. 802 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 2: You're gonna get some I don't even want to tease it. 803 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 2: It's too good. What a guy. I think we're all 804 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 2: fans already of his work, and just to see that 805 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 2: he's a genuinely lovely and generous guy. 806 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 4: Was just a delight for all of us. 807 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, and with that, we can't wait for you 808 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: to join us on Thursday later this week when we 809 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: returned Mobituaries with Moe Raka Part two. In the meantime, 810 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: big big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams. 811 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: Huge thanks to our composer we have our own composers, 812 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: Max's brother, Alex Williams. 813 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, he knew we were talking to Mo and said 814 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 2: he was a big fan, and it just organically came 815 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,720 Speaker 2: up that I feel like there's a spiritual connection between 816 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 2: what Alex does on Ephemeral and most mobituaries, so I 817 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 2: just thought it was appropriate to shout him out in 818 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 2: that respect. Huge thanks to Christopherciotis, Eves, Jeff Coates here 819 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 2: in spirit a J. Jacobs, Bahamas Jacobs, whatever. 820 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 4: That was, Where that comes from? I want to know, 821 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 4: but I'm never going to find out. And I love that. 822 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: And of course, of course, let's think again. People like 823 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 1: Rebecca the raccoon spoiler. I'm sorry, pets are people too. 824 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: Let's thank Jonathan Strictly aka the Quist. 825 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,840 Speaker 2: Gage the Yang to AJS Yen perhaps or vice versa. 826 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Ed, No, thanks to you. I can't wait 827 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: for this to get on the air. 828 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 2: Same, We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts 829 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,320 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 830 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.